asciilifeform: on linux. where otherwise it dun go.
asciilifeform: buildroot, at least as seen in 'rotor', is not necessary on bsd!! there is no glibc there !! afaik static linking works normally on known bsd
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:52 mod6: shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure. would have to be dug into.
shinohai: Yes I haven't done much with it yet besides verify the bitcoind snarfs blocks and that the flag produces a message
asciilifeform: (they are , i am told, being packaged for shipment as we speak )
asciilifeform: trinque: ty. but this is a pre-order, the actual widgets have not left factory yet.
asciilifeform: likely there is also certain amount of 'here's a button, what happens if i press'
asciilifeform: to use the snsa ordertron
shinohai: Maybe they need an rng to generate a key first. >.>
asciilifeform: unrelated lel, how many folx see 'PLEASE read the instructions !' and then drop something other than pgpgram in the funnel
shinohai: No worries mod6 ..... the new patch did fine, nice work getting that out so quickly
asciilifeform: 'Eusip Bvba is the independent and autonomous company behind the projects RACK66 and former projects as Thunderbox and FragFun. The company was founded in 2003 by Internetpioneers who know the market very well and felt the need for a new kind of concept for services as: hosting, housing, managed services, pre installed servers and online gaming....'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 04:11 mircea_popescu: and in other news : http://nosuchlabs.com/ << can now order FUCKGOATS
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> https://blockchain.info/tx/2ca768252bf2db0f9631a90275f8a4580f8d1f4b692da571354e12954e7bd462 << nonstandard subsidy txn << motherfuckers.
mod6: shinohai: yeah, for now, it's just in the email. you can just grab the attachments and place them where they belong. i'll place them both in the mirror at some point, not too long
jurov: !!deed http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
jurov: deedbot: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20161201/attachment.txt?sha1=3ebec7e118a9f69ad2fe87574a11430a955fae9e
asciilifeform: https://media.8ch.net/file_store/25dda0c2ebe8121b92b66da5f54a83f9a1b41fa2c22721fde9fa92090d41b18d.png << from last night's heathen pit excursions
asciilifeform: http://65.111.164.90/apache2-default/ << lel, 'what shall i do today... oh, i know, build a box with DIDDLED DEBIAN and then leave it running on DEFAULT knobs!111 for years'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 01:01 adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575187 << first log appearance for this, led me to http://www.the-programmers-stone.com/about which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally."
mircea_popescu: ntelligence entirely dedicated to the task of survival.
mircea_popescu: "Whenever I got a team ready to be really useful, there would be a bizarre negative reaction from all sorts of other people who were employed within the same organizations, but were not part of the teams I was working with. Sometimes this effect was so strong it could become a workplace hazard, and it always grew until the teams themselves were no longer able to function." <<< mediocrity is not a lack of intelligence, it is i
mircea_popescu: still a good candidate for the next city's hill.
asciilifeform: but also because of the global-locks-everywhere horror in the thing, it is nontrivial to parallelize anything therein.
asciilifeform: largely because of the 'don't clean the air filter' tale mircea_popescu told asciilifeform et al on the shore in buenos aires
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the final solution, incidentally, is parallel-verify. but we dun have it yet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the conclusion is, 2k+ txn blocks took significant time on old clients ; and this made them exceed the 10min magic delay and trip an alert.
asciilifeform: ( though zoolag is blackholed, it is not unusual, sits like this half the time )
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 V is not including the the privkey vpatch during sync, has it not been added to site yet? (Building the new thing you posted last night)
mircea_popescu: holy shit they broke bitcoin
jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 3:5 :: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
jhvh1: 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess BingoBoingo has it. ima see what the girls are up to.
mircea_popescu: uh. did the blockchain just fork ?!
mod6: but will place order tomorrow then proll.y
mod6: ok. bummed cause i just got the mailing shit all setup
mircea_popescu: aaaand... we're sold out on the 1st batch o.O
mircea_popescu: theoretically it's 15 celsisus in wash dc ?
mircea_popescu: sure, as part of their education at tu berlin.
asciilifeform: gotta wonder -- any of these folx ever generate gpg key..?
mircea_popescu: " I thought just moving your mouse or doing something on the computer already fills up /dev/random, and it's only a big problem on major servers. Is this not right?" << there's a SHOCKING amount of this. nsa's doing god's work with these people, absolutely.
mircea_popescu: but we'll fill the orders in order so.
mod6: haha, i certainly will. probably wont be order for a day or so... think you'll have enough to meet the demand?
mircea_popescu: and in other shitlord news, http://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/boards/g/img/0577/81/1480568792212.jpg
asciilifeform: ^ motherland of ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575383 << btw >> http://blackbox.poly.edu/geni/html/login >> 'SeattleGENI is now the Seattle Clearinghouse. New to Seattle? We suggest you first learn about Seattle before using Clearinghouse, a resource sharing website.'
asciilifeform: 'I thought that /dev/random (as opposed to /dev/urandom) was already based on entropy from physical noise, as recorded by sensors (I think including mouse, keyboard and temperature). Sounds like they're trying to make a big deal out of addressing a theoretical vulnerability, which is irrelevant in practice.' << glorious
BingoBoingo: Classic Trilema, why not linked in the lazy libertard series?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo apparently not actually mine ( http://trilema.com/2012/in-atentia-igppa-autodenunt/ ). the tile got me confused.
asciilifeform: no heathen pit too rancid !
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note the "version 41 to 50".
asciilifeform: english lacks the handy handy word, распил .
asciilifeform: as for tanks , i got stuck behind one in traffic (no, not hallucinating, it was on a flatbed as it ought to be.) this used to be more common sight. but as i understand they are not making so many new ones, the 1 (yes 1) factory in ohio is laying off hands
asciilifeform: the things usg spends 'military' moneys on, are only with difficulty and vigorous anal pear cranking stretchable to call 'military'
mircea_popescu: in random fun facts : soviet military expenditure in the 30s was ~12% of gdp. it jumped to ~18% in early 1940. this is BEFORE germany invaded (1941). today "normal" military expenditure is 1.x%, from japan and australia to italy or germany. the us does ~3.x. of the rich countries, the saudis are the only ones being reasonable (ie, over10%). the jews are half that.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:53 trinque: the mind will create elaborate narratives to justify addiction. never affected me directly, but I've seen it.
mircea_popescu: and dumb is by and large an apanage reserved to the "intelligent"
mircea_popescu: adlai it's not entirely evident to me that average intelligence person could not make excellent programmer. contrary to the "consensus" on the topic, programming is much more a matter of not being dumb than of being "creative"
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575158 << The way tolerance works could have been doing 1 gram per day his last hundred days.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575048 << I'm actually rather surprised there isn't a generic scrypt shitcoin miner in postscript for the Printernet of Things
mod6: and mainly there is so much other non-infrastructure related work to do, i think that's taking a back-seat unless someone steps up to work on it and contribute.
mod6: shinohai: well, at one point the one patch we had made that possible, but with buildroot now in the mix, im not sure. would have to be dug into.
mod6: adlai: yeah, to make it work on bsd you need some special tweaks. otherwise, won't go.
shinohai: This may be the best story I have seen all day: Former gay porn actor turned German spy arrested for secretly being a Jihadist http://archive.is/9SQqY
adlai recently tried pressing & building trb on fbsd; did not go well, needs another attempt. but for now - sleep.
shinohai: Still, quite the productive month.
mod6: whoops. meant to remove that second paragraph out of the SoBA all. my apologies. please ignore that part.
adlai: what i can't fathom is this fetish all the teachers have for writing content by hand in realtime, rather than clicking a button and having a computer instantly display a legible, proofread, typeset, etc version
adlai: in other news, physics lecturer is quite good: "being here does not excuse you from thinking, rather thinking is required of you" also "i can explain everything you want, but you'll have to start listening". so he's not quite throwing out the idiots, but it looks like he goes as far as he can without getting his jerb tooken away
adlai is speaking broadly here. literally taking the alpha-methyl off 'meth' is not the intent here, but rather nominating for consideration substituted PEAs such as mescaline
adlai: re: 'dope', lose the alpha-methyl... much more useful effects, at least in my (limited) experience coding under such influences
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575187 << first log appearance for this, led me to http://www.the-programmers-stone.com/about which makes two preposterous claims in one sentence before i've even scrolled down once: "I discovered that (almost) everyone can become a super-programmer, and with a crew of super-programmers, gelled teams form up naturally."
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, the problem is not well solved and not evidently solvable, but this doesn't make it not a problem.
gabriel_laddel: it's in the logs.
gabriel_laddel: jurov: bribe the chinese to bake some more
jurov: *bought the same
mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> jurov: I'm open to advice, I just disagree with them. << lol!
gabriel_laddel: the process needs to be streamlined.
gabriel_laddel: jurov: all the other masamune machines out in the wild are running the same sources as I am
jurov: there are still too many moving parts, what do you do when you find catastrophic bug in X, or it has only hardware drivers for devices that can't be bought anymore?
gabriel_laddel: jurov: I'm open to advice, I just disagree with them. What's on your mind?
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_HZAsa2Sw#t=2m00s << imo the greatest musical achievement of the killer micro.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 00:10 trinque: it strikes me that there is a perversity in "serving a man in your own way"
gabriel_laddel: er equery/emerge (more details later) 4. using this *stable* platform to do simulations for sane computing in CL 5. supporting this venture by leveraging lisp/clim/climacs/macsyma/sbcl against the rest of the world, which cannot produce GUIs / code / production systems as quickly.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I envision 1. masamune is self-hosting, with the ability to replicate itself onto a livecd containing all sources used to build it, that can then produce like replicants. 2. no more updates to ALGOL systems, ever, given that all the sources needed for the lisp environment are self-contained. 3. A CLIM system manager that abstracts ov
trinque: it strikes me that there is a perversity in "serving a man in your own way"
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:21 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i'd loot a lot more than 10s of mns if i found a way to reliably get people to do the things that need done rather than the sexy things they want to do BEFORE they are old enough for their active life to be mostly behind them.
asciilifeform: to make it sit in the balloon , somehow stink-proof and escape-proof.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: do you envision the 'unix nonsense' retreating into an airtight balloon that you have made for it, through sheer force of will ? to kill it in a staring concept ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: no. throw out the unix nonsense and make predictions about how long it will take to write CL, which I can reason about.
phf: trinque: i go to burning man, the kind of people i accommodate....
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/reddit-ceo-huffman-takes-it-pao-right-in-the-kisser/ << Qntra - Reddit CEO Huffman Takes It Pao, Right In The Kisser
phf: gabriel_laddel: well this is my avocation, so hacking on hemlock and installing masamune in sfo is cost equivalent. i'd make a trip just as a mini vacation, i'll see when's the closest i can swing it
mircea_popescu has been having fun asking libtards "so why didn't YOU influence the elections then ?"
mircea_popescu: next i suppose they'll be "teaching the controversy" of whether shit or turd is the correct choice, and we'll continue ignoring them and they'll continue to pretend that we don't matter and their 5% is inexplicable at the same time. without any problem whatsoever in their absent minds, putin doesn't understand how the world works and influences the elections, sure, why not.
mircea_popescu: again and again and again the same stupidity it will do, because hey. all it got.
mircea_popescu: somehow the progre mind just can't get out of itself.
mircea_popescu: shinohai the response of the redditards is so amusing. "there's TWO DIFFERENT DOOMED FORKS NOW!!! for you to choose from! because fragmentation is so totally the winning strategy!"
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
asciilifeform: theeere
trinque: not even, but especially "save the computing industry" quests
trinque: the mind will create elaborate narratives to justify addiction. never affected me directly, but I've seen it.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:46 phf: i've been low-key reviving cmucl's hemlock, can't use portable hemlock nor climacs for that matter, because neither have terminal versions. needless to say the process is slow and painful. like right now i'm trying to figure out why scrolling the buffer is slow slow you can see each individual line redrawing. also arrow keys don't work
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:28 mircea_popescu: jurov amusingly, lua actually DID realise mns in savings for petrobras. the authors however failed to capture any of it.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575131 << guess for whom else: for nsa. they rolled in (yes) lua interpreter into whole series of trojans
asciilifeform: first ecstacy, then laundry.
mircea_popescu: well, every computer goes through two phases - first, programming, then execution.
mircea_popescu: trinque aha. entirely "ignis fatuus of the mind"
gabriel_laddel: gotta get this fuking livecd to work, and then smooth sailing
trinque: the conceit is that you're always a centimeter away
trinque: that adds some color to the situation
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: let's put it this way -- I used cocaine, meth etc etc from 16-20 constantly, then not at all for 4+ years. Idk if that is disciplined or what, but I don't appear to have a problem with it, know what it does to me and think it would improve my current situation.
asciilifeform: dopes that make the eater happier to do repetitive / dumb task, are death to programmer.
gabriel_laddel: then I maintain you have no idea what it can and cannot do for you in my situation.
trinque: I know what the 10yr of that looks like, secondhand
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: yet. I end up going through these cycles where caffeine works to stave off sleep, then it doesn't, then I end up sleeping on a couch for 3 days, 12-14 hours a day.
phf: well, as w burroughs demonstrated the problem is not dope, it's the lack of money to both buy dope and not have to shop to work the next day
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I have been a little busy to generate a new key in an unsecure manner. It is on "the list"
mircea_popescu: political history of lua / petro-brazil is a worthy pit to dig for the amateur cyber-historian of republican perspective.
mircea_popescu: phf yes, lua was build in-house by the brazillians trying to you know, be independent state.
asciilifeform: THE HARDWARE
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'appledom' , though some folx seem to forget, in the words of jobs himself even, 'we shall take unfair advantage of the fact that we make the software AND THE HARDWARE'
asciilifeform: it does not bother gabriel_laddel to be a ghost ? with no flesh ?
trinque: the only way is signed vpatches
asciilifeform: trinque: all else aside, i want to know where the d00d's PUBKEY is, and wtf he thinks he is doing without one.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: the only way to distribute software is as a full self-hosting linux that can generate livecds of itself.
mircea_popescu: jurov amusingly, lua actually DID realise mns in savings for petrobras. the authors however failed to capture any of it.
trinque: where is the current vpatch ?
asciilifeform: the nazi subs are closer to working subs than clim+x11 is to lispm.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:13 asciilifeform: i currently have nfi what, if anything, he did other than bum around.
asciilifeform: it is why gold rushes are destructive, they turn supposedly smart folk into drooling imbeciles
asciilifeform: but never applies the memory to himself when thinking 'i will make 10 mil selling proggy'
gabriel_laddel: jurov: if you don't understand how (common) lisp differs from tcl/tk you've missed the boat intellectually.
jurov: gabriel_laddel: i heard same claims about tcl/tk. but none seven digit figures happened there i know of
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i'd loot a lot more than 10s of mns if i found a way to reliably get people to do the things that need done rather than the sexy things they want to do BEFORE they are old enough for their active life to be mostly behind them.
gabriel_laddel: creating graphical applications 10-100x faster than the competition is immensely useful.
gabriel_laddel: people have blown hundreds of millions trying to make a "gui builder" atop QT, the web, swing etc.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: you've not seen the endgame for masamune yet.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:15 asciilifeform: d00d suffers from the traditional disease of the 19yo 'night h4ck3r' , crippling tunnel vision
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574917 < I suffer from the disease of seeing 10s of millions of loot as reward for getting this working.
gabriel_laddel: and right now I'm generating the most minimal possible livecd so I can see wtf is going on / speed of generation.
mircea_popescu: and the kids see the discarded shoes and floating hats and decide THEY SHOULD DIG TOO
mircea_popescu: we are, intellectually speaking, in the bizarre situation of st. petersburg, a small town on the mississppi where for some bizarro enchantment reason all the boys decided the thing to do is dig up the river. and drowned there.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the problem here isn't a discrete technological product, be it a font or a bridge ; nor the dysfunctional process that produced it, be it a broken cnc mill or lucent ; but altogether something more fundamental, where young man looking to "go west" decides the west is at the bottom of the lake and proceeds to dig.
asciilifeform: to the point that i got my hands on a rom and pulled that font, and still have it somewhere. unfortunately unusable on any display that i have...
asciilifeform: and when i first saw screenshits of lispm, i was astonished at how readable the text was, on a box with ONE font in ONE size
asciilifeform: not a single time that i bought a new panel with 2-3x the density of the old one, did i NOT have to change my emacs font
asciilifeform: i always assumed that it is a thing folks do when they come of age and build 'the' machine they will work their working years on, to sit down and burn away the shitfonts, among other
mircea_popescu: but there was ONE FUCKING FRAKTUR.
asciilifeform: of all the plagues discussed in this thread, i'd say fonts are the mildest, it is at this very minute quite trivial to operate a machine with 2-3 fonts installed , with ~0 surgery
mircea_popescu: it's not even that they're broken in tech terms. this shit is broken culturally.
asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
mircea_popescu: this is not so different from the problem of, eg, emacs. or plan9. or any software. or any fucking shop in a town, or a mall. why the fuck are there FIFTY fast food offering the same crap in the food court ?
mircea_popescu: so upon meditation, this becomes very much an application of the disaster of commons discussed in http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ : in order for fonts to be useful, they'd have to be few. however, because it's costly to enforce and the individual interest is missaligned, the result is... many.
asciilifeform has 2 buttons on his keyboard, 1 opens term with 'small' fixed font, other with 'big'
mircea_popescu: there is absoloutely no reason there should be more than maybe a dozen or so fonts. but there are, because "easy to make", and in spite of the rapidly diminishing returns of "making".
asciilifeform: the end.
asciilifeform: the sane answer is that machine needs at most 2, fixed and variadic width, and with such a renderer that each can display at any scale without pixillation.
mircea_popescu: a) you can not meaningfully say if you've found a "good" font, seeing how you can't say what portion of fonts youv'e actually seen ; b) the very notion of good font is impossible because in principle all possible fonts were made already in triplicate.
mircea_popescu: consider a simpler problem - you wish for whatever reason to "pick a good font". suppose your "good" is specified. you proceed to... look at fonts, selected by some criteria. eventually you are tired to the point your eyes blur, and haven't seen 5% of the available offerigs in "gothic medieval" from one place. there's more places. when are you done ?
phf: now the question of whether or not designing a font language that simulates movement of calligraphic brushstrokes is a good idea..
mircea_popescu: phf even limiting the matter to ttfs (seriously, postcript is a whole extra layer of crazy) one quickly discovers some very serious conceptual problems. i don't even mean from a technological pov.
mircea_popescu: major nighthole, the fonts.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:42 asciilifeform: obesity is not per se damning but i'd really love to know wtf there is justifiably 52 zipped MB of , in there.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575009 << i was gonna say, "fonts", but then you found on your own.
asciilifeform: and i did think that these niblets had already gone through many an arse and had 0 way to do
mircea_popescu: the undigested corn nibblets in used toilet are no sort of prize whatsoever ; except for bacteria.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:35 asciilifeform: soooo lucent bought by nokia, and the latter now by microshit, which now owns the bones of bell labs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574998 << funny how the us dept of whatever "private company" is the buyer of last resort for all these.
asciilifeform: because children who should have fallen into the lake and drowned.
trinque: in reading the source, the bsd folks crapped a bunch of things that should be in a sed-like into cat.
mircea_popescu: brother.
phf: i think that's a separate set for their own postscript implementation
phf: oh that makes sense, they use bitmap fonts
asciilifeform: obesity is not per se damning but i'd really love to know wtf there is justifiably 52 zipped MB of , in there.
asciilifeform: can't speak for others, but i very much do not think i will produce a 52MB tgz of source with own hands before dead.
asciilifeform: soooo lucent bought by nokia, and the latter now by microshit, which now owns the bones of bell labs.
phf: (it also has a nifty set of astro tools, that i use to chart the skys from time to time, because it's really easy to use and i don't know any better)
phf: trinque: i very rarely explicitly run it, it's just there for when i want to read some c code. i sometimes gauge tool sanity by trying to do the same thing with plan9 tools. anyway it's plan9port running on mac 10.9.5
asciilifeform: it is the correct one.
asciilifeform: trinque: ty, that's the logz link i wanted to put in this thread.
asciilifeform: i can see in five seconds of looking, that it LOOKS at the chars !!
phf: well, i only have plan9 cat on my box and it's trully tiny, but then it's plan9 (just does read/write to buf[8192])
phf: cat ought to be 8-bit clean, i suspect most of the bloat will come from gnu attempting all kinds of optimization. it probably optionally mmaps cat foo, etc.
asciilifeform: because i noticed interesting thing, supposedly 'simple' things will have a border beyond which the complexity explodes for 'no reason' , as per the 'cat' thread from 2 yrs ago
trinque: and something quite stupid and forth-y could handle parsing a rudimentary set of possible statements to a db which eats from one serial port, shits to another
trinque: though hardware ones, and not the kind normally meant
trinque: phf: dunno that I'm making an argument for anything *else* either
trinque: and of course they *will*
trinque: seems this runs the risk of continuously being a refugee. "they broke my emacs, so I left for hemlock/climacs/etc, then they broke my X, then they broke my ..."
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:02 asciilifeform: it is, laugh or cry, an actual problem, and imho the reason climacs was stillborn
phf: i've been low-key reviving cmucl's hemlock, can't use portable hemlock nor climacs for that matter, because neither have terminal versions. needless to say the process is slow and painful. like right now i'm trying to figure out why scrolling the buffer is slow slow you can see each individual line redrawing. also arrow keys don't work
phf: breaks my heart all that's been done to emacs. it used to have a strong culture of backwards compatibility. large packages would have compat files compat-19.el, compat-20.el, etc. where's now only latest and greatest work. used to be very non-dwim, now every single package insist on some "smart input" dwimy interaction mode. but all this complexity is broken, things clash and interact with each other in all kinds of funny ways
trinque: call it the alf-dilemma.
asciilifeform: some > than others.
trinque: there was a "10 cans of soda" thread
asciilifeform: ( how am i to reason about 'his' code, when none of it is signed, and there is naught to sign it with ..? )
asciilifeform: the man refuses to... exist
trinque: I keep hoping for a g_l writeup on the subj, but do not see a blog anywhere
asciilifeform: d00d suffers from the traditional disease of the 19yo 'night h4ck3r' , crippling tunnel vision
asciilifeform: and fight with other bums over bag of pennies
asciilifeform: i currently have nfi what, if anything, he did other than bum around.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:12 asciilifeform: re elisp, imho the 'apocalyptic' scale of the problem is overblown, if every d00d were to rewrite the few 100 of elisp that he actually ~uses~, in climacs, or whereever, job would be done in a week.
mircea_popescu: reducing the problem to "if every dude ran this script and then picked multiple-choice options 5 times"
asciilifeform: re elisp, imho the 'apocalyptic' scale of the problem is overblown, if every d00d were to rewrite the few 100 of elisp that he actually ~uses~, in climacs, or whereever, job would be done in a week.
asciilifeform: i have here a b00k on piloting circa 1940, and already then author insists that rudder pedals are obsolete and have killed a thousand men
asciilifeform: it is (and mthread / davout are invited to correct me , i am an armchair admiral ) as i understand, the reason why airplane today still has rudder pedals.
mircea_popescu: muscle memory is the thinking man's worst enemy ; not least of all because it tends to win.
asciilifeform: the visigoths will write newmacs.
asciilifeform: because at the end of the day, when choosing between '30 yrs of muscle memory' and 'MAYBE new emacs 30 yrs from now' everyone picked the former.
asciilifeform: it is, laugh or cry, an actual problem, and imho the reason climacs was stillborn
mircea_popescu: very much the python problem.
asciilifeform: which rely on bug-for-bug compatibility with the morass.
asciilifeform: which in fact is the reason anyone even uses it: 30 years of elisp extensions.
asciilifeform: but there is also a 3rd piece in emacs
mircea_popescu: seems evident the correct solution is to get that proper lisp bootstrap i was discussing with phf and then re-write emacs in it.
mircea_popescu: "The number of people aboard who can matter-of-factly hack the Emacs internals on the C level is consistently going down, and is already so small they can be counted on one hand. We must make Emacs depend less on people from this small and diminishing group, if we want the development pace increased or even kept at its current level." << this is a very solid point.
asciilifeform: emacs, in case anyone forgot, is made of 2 pieces - a megatonne bucked of crud written in 1970-era shitlisp, and an interpreter (yes) thereof
mircea_popescu: it also makes 0 sense for it to be a c piece of code, but that's a discussion for another time
asciilifeform: theoretically.
mircea_popescu: actually from what i can grok from that piece, the proposed solution (dump unexec, move on to saving elisp stack) is actually an improv meent
asciilifeform: instead of 'find the poetterings and impale'
asciilifeform: linked piece is lulzy on account of the idiot 'solution' picked on the victim end, 'That solution comes in the form of the "portable dumper" patch from Daniel Colascione. This patch is not small; it adds over 4,500 lines of code to Emacs and it is not yet complete...'
mircea_popescu: o hey, so in the end vi wins ?
asciilifeform: as is the subj, actually, shitgnomes are pretty close to breaking emacs
asciilifeform: this is really in re the old 'bitcoin at the nsa' thread but i've misplaced the date.
asciilifeform: ( 'stalin's' algorithm of guarding gold, i.e. 'if it is lost, shoot everyone who might have sold the coordinates of the convoy' doesn't necessarily work either, because somewhere high enough in the chain there is usually someone who is 1) unshootable + 2) knows the coords )