← | Results 1501 ... 1750 found in all logged channels for 'f:nubbins' | →
(trilema) nubbins`: you're assuming the bitbet broadcast node is covert.
(trilema) nubbins`: dooglus logic has no place in this discussion
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
(trilema) nubbins`: oh, wait, that lines up with the fucking facts
(trilema) nubbins`: why, it'd instantly be included in a block!
(trilema) nubbins`: PeterL imagine how high the priority would be on A1 by the time it makes it to the front of the mempool queue
(trilema) nubbins`: oh, wait, that's fucking retarded
(trilema) nubbins`: that way he can tell what transactions other nodes are aware of but are not rebroadcasting
(trilema) nubbins`: he sends a special packet and the node dumps its mempool, json format
(trilema) nubbins`: mp has node x-ray goggles.
(trilema) nubbins`: and you wonder why i have zero interest in "doing up a blog post" or whatever masturbatory navel-gazing bullshit is somehow better than explaining it real-time
(trilema) nubbins`: sauce and hyperbole
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ this is what you'll get as a response no matter how well thought-out your explanation is
(trilema) nubbins`: ...or maybe they do!
(trilema) nubbins`: baffled that most don't
(trilema) nubbins`: it's what my node does
(trilema) nubbins`: incredibly simple explanation.
(trilema) nubbins`: what did happen was mp got very upset and the topic changed
(trilema) nubbins`: no such "falling apart" was witnessed, upon review of the logs by ALL parties present.
(trilema) nubbins`: ah, right.
(trilema) nubbins`: still not a word re: blatant fraud
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ as you can see, lots of hand-waving and rhetoric is the best response mp can dig up when under fire
(trilema) nubbins`: PeterL i think he's hinting that text is too hard and he needs an infographic
(trilema) nubbins`: the only reason we'd need to sink is if cappy's too proud to use em
(trilema) nubbins`: we've got all the coolant and gaskets RIGHT HERE
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform maybe the captain can just refund the gum and pee for gaskets and coolant, the ship's financial officer OKs it, life goes on, ego bruised but the sub still floating?
(trilema) nubbins`: i wouldn't put too much weight behind mp's bitbet experience
(trilema) nubbins` bends an ear
(trilema) nubbins`: that's the basis of my as yet unanswered fraud accusation
(trilema) nubbins`: PeterL yes, precisely. section 3.2 (h) of bitbet's listing agreement forbids this.
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform when you assume someone has intelligence...
(trilema) nubbins`: bitbet keeps a 100% reserve, not a 200% reserve, which is why we know B's inputs had to have been mp's personal funds.
(trilema) nubbins`: PeterL A1-A4 had bitbet's inputs. A1-A4 went awol. B had mp's personal inputs.
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform mp's anger morphed into "this theorem was disproven" in his broken brain
(trilema) nubbins`: at any rate, being a 0a corp, the funds from B weren't bitbet's. regardless of who owned them.
(trilema) nubbins`: dooglus it would seem that mp did it on his own accord. bitbet is a "zero asset" corporation, and thus doesn't own any capital; there was nowhere for a second 17btc to come from.
(trilema) nubbins` sidesteps a tumbleweed
(trilema) nubbins`: pathetic, really
(trilema) nubbins`: after all, it's more about ego than logic or facts
(trilema) nubbins`: so it probably won't be delisted
(trilema) nubbins`: although i guess if s.bbet can break its listing agreement with impunity, it can also stop providing signed financial statements to MPEx with impunity
(trilema) nubbins`: sadly, it will be mp's ego that costs him the loss either way
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform kakobrekla is probably wondering what the future holds for him, as he is currently being forced to decide between PGP signing a fraudulent financial statement or losing his livelihood. i envy him not.
(trilema) nubbins`: fucking idiot
(trilema) nubbins`: not when the ceo makes a mistake on his own time, out of his own pocket, the company doesn't
(trilema) nubbins`: "when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it"
(trilema) nubbins`: this is so fucking rich
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;echo don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;echo "don't like fraud? sell your shares"
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform not sure
(trilema) nubbins`: it's interesting to see a man's will fight cold logic
(trilema) nubbins`: either way, introducing a private debt to s.bbet is plainly breaking the listing agreement, and the method by which mp has proposed to discharge it is also plainly breaking the listing agreement
(trilema) nubbins` is curious to hear opinions of others re: bitbet fraud, but fears that he'll be the only one sticking up for the investors
(trilema) nubbins`: after all, 17 btc is one thing, pride is another
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform but something tells me that s.bbet is going to be a "scam investment" from here on out.
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform ideally it'd be settled by mp admitting he was grossly incorrect and revising the statement
(trilema) nubbins`: trinque "Professional means that you respect your elders, on account of their superior experience, which makes them better people than you. "
(trilema) nubbins`: everyone QQing because nubs is a meanie
(trilema) nubbins`: yeah, "now". maybe you should read the rules too, or shut the fuck up and get out
(trilema) nubbins`: "You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do"
(trilema) nubbins`: danielpbarron there were too many iterations of deedbot so i rolled my own. i can share the code, but it should be compatible
(trilema) nubbins`: hanbot check the rules before opening your word-hole again: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/
(trilema) nubbins`: then daring to enter into a conversation about technical issues
(trilema) nubbins`: struggling harder than mod6 was just to get a gentoo install running
(trilema) nubbins`: running the mouth
(trilema) nubbins`: you fuckin get lost.
(trilema) nubbins`: you'll find the text for section 3.2 (h) under section 3.2 (h)
(trilema) nubbins`: oh, you need a link to the bitbet listing agreement?
(trilema) nubbins`: one has to wonder if bitbet is using this boojum in production
(trilema) nubbins`: dooglus how 'bout that!
(trilema) nubbins`: which oddly confirmed almost right away because i blew a whole quarter on the fees
(trilema) nubbins`: dooglus: are you saying that trb nodes are eventually ignored by core nodes simply due to trb passing enormously large messages?
(trilema) nubbins`: <+hanbot>you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer? << you don't seem to get that me spelling the entire thing out again in long form is zero on my list of priorities, but i appreciate you switch-hitting for mp because it'd really look silly if he responded himself
(trilema) nubbins`: shinohai, kakobrekla?
(trilema) nubbins`: trinque, danielpbarron, other assorted fans?
(trilema) nubbins`: unfortunately, mp's gonna have to wait until he catches up on the logs to read that ^
(trilema) nubbins`: in fact, the entire S.BBET february statement is fraudulent, based on this
(trilema) nubbins`: (bitbet, being a 0-asset corporation, did not own the funds contained in transaction B; they were ostensibly owned by mp. any funds disbursed via B are not the responsibility of bitbet in any way, shape, or form)
(trilema) nubbins`: not sure how kakobrekla feels about that, but if i worked for a company where my boss gave away 17 btc of his own money and then recouped it from the company's dividends, i'd call the cops
(trilema) nubbins`: did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
(trilema) nubbins`: i was forced by my own sanity to actually call this one for what it was
(trilema) nubbins`: i know everyone else likes to just let idiocy happen
(trilema) nubbins`: and see who was interested in speaking like an adult and who was interested in speaking like a child
(trilema) nubbins`: anyone else who wishes to bring up the subject of shameful discourse is welcome to revisit the logs where i began speaking on this topic
(trilema) nubbins`: we all read the logs, yes?
(trilema) nubbins`: rather than blankly stating it to be so
(trilema) nubbins`: preferably with, y'know, a link to where it happened
(trilema) nubbins`: still waiting for someone besides mp to agree that this is what happened
(trilema) nubbins`: trinque agreed. mp's ludicrously false statements set the bar really low
(trilema) nubbins`: and is so hotly ashamed that he's resorted to this
(trilema) nubbins`: i actually think it's beyond mirthful that mp lost 17 btc of bitbet's money
(trilema) nubbins`: idgaf about some 17btc transaction, only to point out that if someone touts targeted collusion as the most likely answer, they're probably selling something
(trilema) nubbins`: i should just state the obvious explanation and let whoever wants to sing about cartel collusion do so
(trilema) nubbins`: no, i really shouldn't
(trilema) nubbins`: a dime. actually nine american cents at the time of the incident.
(trilema) nubbins` has never, ever, ever had a stuck tx and is baffled as to why anyone w/ money ever would
(trilema) nubbins`: danielpbarron why in the fuck would i do that? i'm not so cheap that i can't afford a dime for fees
(trilema) nubbins`: given that miners who run node farms aren't fucking idiots, it seems implausible to assume that halting rebroadcast of lowest-priority tx's until the backlog is cleared is not a thing that would happen
(trilema) nubbins`: given that it's trivial to create a large backlog of old coins, it seems implausible to think that mp's relatively new coins could not simultaneously be high enough priority to be kept in mempool but low enough priority that it's one of the last tx's to be cleared
(trilema) nubbins`: given that any rational miner would save old coins, it seems implausible to think that a small number of miners would be unable to create a huge mempool backlog
(trilema) nubbins`: given that age is a factor in propagating tx's, it seems implausibly short-sighted to assume that miners don't keep a portion of their earnings untouched to build up age
(trilema) nubbins`: why do extra work when the timer's counting down? adding a single extra output could mean the difference between mining a block and not
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;echo enjoy following the convo
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;echo sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy
(trilema) nubbins`: this doesn't preclude the fact that /any/ individual pool miner can have 10%, or 50%, or 100% of his daily take socked away immediately into long-term storage
(trilema) nubbins`: because it's retarded to chop up a reward before you have to
(trilema) nubbins`: why don't you see pool-mined blocks split the reward into a million outputs?
(trilema) nubbins`: easier bookkeeping, for starters
(trilema) nubbins`: they're not trapped in place
(trilema) nubbins`: uh, you know you can move the coins again, right?
(trilema) nubbins`: 3600 new coins per day, give or take
(trilema) nubbins`: look: how many new coins each day?
(trilema) nubbins`: i suppose you grossly overestimate what you're a part of
(trilema) nubbins`: do you suppose any large-scale miner would be anything but a complete fucking idiot if they haven't been socking away a percentage of each block reward for use when old coins are needed?
(trilema) nubbins`: do you suppose there are any miners out there who'd be interested in generating a large mempool backlog for any given reason?
(trilema) nubbins`: you meant that in general it's an expensive attack and would require lots of old coins
(trilema) nubbins`: it's irrelevant
(trilema) nubbins`: also, don't change the argument into how feasible it is for a lowly shoemaker to pull it off
(trilema) nubbins`: danielpbarron don't pretend to assume you know how many glass cannons i have
(trilema) nubbins`: he's gonna find conversations really hard to follow
(trilema) nubbins`: hmm i wonder if mp putting me on ignore means he's gotta filter me from his logs as well
(trilema) nubbins`: don't insult your own intelligence
(trilema) nubbins`: but a cabal saying "OK guise, he paid out from a new source, let's get A1 back out there!".... c'mon
(trilema) nubbins`: hell, maybe the "bitbet stole my coinz" guy relayed it
(trilema) nubbins`: what bitbet payout recipient wouldn't want free coins
(trilema) nubbins`: an actor doing it on purpose, sure
(trilema) nubbins`: if you think the relaying of A1 was triggered by B, you're daft
(trilema) nubbins`: but if i have a massive backlog, no 0-fee bum is gonna get a free ride
(trilema) nubbins`: once my backlog has been eliminated, i have no qualms about relaying A1
(trilema) nubbins`: look: i receive A1 when it's first broadcast, i hold onto it but i DON'T RELAY IT because my backlog is too big.
(trilema) nubbins`: do we have a reason to think which was done?
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform the age of A1's inputs ranged from a couple days to a couple months iirc
(trilema) nubbins`: and i wouldn't even have to crack open two cold wallets
(trilema) nubbins`: again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1
(trilema) nubbins`: calling A1 spam was a stretch and not correct, but calling A1 anything other than the absolute lowest priority is unreasonable
(trilema) nubbins`: how does a node operator distinguish between the 50,000 spam 0-fee tx's and bitbet's 0-fee tx?
(trilema) nubbins`: neither did the 20,000 transactions ahead of it with higher priority
(trilema) nubbins`: no, it didn't
(trilema) nubbins`: 0-fee tx followed by 3 double-spend attempts in the midst of a mempool backlog
(trilema) nubbins`: A1 was spam.
(trilema) nubbins`: 6k unconfirmed tx's right now
(trilema) nubbins`: i could've kept A1 in limbo for a month if i'd wanted to
(trilema) nubbins`: do you have any idea how many 0-fee transactions i could make, today, with higher priority than A1?
(trilema) nubbins`: ESPECIALLY if you're only connected to your favourite whitelisted nodes?
(trilema) nubbins`: if ant/f2 own 500 nodes out of an available 560, how in the fuck are you gonna see a transaction that they're not broadcasting?
(trilema) nubbins`: which is not retarded
(trilema) nubbins`: that's "withholding all 0-fee tx's during a backlog"
(trilema) nubbins`: but that's not "deliberately withholding bitbet's tx"
(trilema) nubbins`: once that's in place, whatever rules they set are essentially universal
(trilema) nubbins`: if there was 60 live nodes last year, it seems extremely improbable that a mining cartel wouldn't rent out a data center and stuff it with nodes
(trilema) nubbins`: obviously ant/f2 have node farms as well as mining farms
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform do note that collusion on tx relay nodes in the form of "don't broadcast 0-fee tx's if the mempool is > x" would explain observed behaviour
(trilema) nubbins`: homework for ya
(trilema) nubbins`: how'd the mempool look when that guy's tx was sent out?
(trilema) nubbins`: shinohai re: the link you posted
(trilema) nubbins`: but i have extremely low incentive to help mp exorcise his ghosts
(trilema) nubbins`: i could, as i've got an enormous amount of coins that haven't moved in a very long time
(trilema) nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel << seems his intel connected him to a shit set of nodes
(trilema) nubbins`: i'll broadcast 0-fee tx's when it suits me, not the other way around
(trilema) nubbins`: my node wouldn't have broadcast A1 until the backlog subsided
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform first things first, sturles' theory: fell apart upon examination or no?
(trilema) nubbins`: bbl coffee/breakfast
(trilema) nubbins`: kako and i seem to agree that nothing about sturles' theory "fell apart upon examination", although we'd both be eager to hear your thoughts on the topic
(trilema) nubbins`: asciilifeform care to offer an opinion on ^
(trilema) nubbins`: danielpbarron if your interest in a subject is predicated on who else is interested in it, then i have no sensible response
(trilema) nubbins`: if mp no longer finds a use for btc, i'm eagerly awaiting the liquidation of all mpex assets
(trilema) nubbins` is a bit surprised that more lords aren't concerned about mp's shame leading him to proposing an altcoin as the way forward
(trilema) nubbins`: in fact, no rebuttal to sturles' explanation was offered -- just a lot of gnashing about "but that's crazy!"
(trilema) nubbins`: but mp hears what he wants
(trilema) nubbins`: that's because it didn't
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ did it, though? feel free to link.
(trilema) nubbins`: and "shouldn't work that way" does not mean the same thing as "did not happen"
(trilema) nubbins`: nah, just making quips
(trilema) nubbins`: maybe the market got confused and accidentally dumped 500btc worth of MPOE over the last 24 hours instead of dumping all their btc
(trilema) nubbins`: you'd think it'd be a big deal
(trilema) nubbins`: weird that the chinese mining cartel revealing themselves hasn't affected the exchange rate
(trilema) nubbins`: !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.mircea_popescu.-1:c4b87f050b85b49aada6a81e8e32c6367bd53b43f88ada62c95a94b10e8e417d
(trilema) nubbins`: !rate mircea_popescu -1 tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
(trilema) nubbins`: "little tiny bugs shouldn't be able to hurt a hyooman!"
(trilema) nubbins`: if that's a "theory falling apart", i'd like to see you guys take on gravity, or germ theory
(trilema) nubbins`: but, of course, it does
(trilema) nubbins`: all i see is mp and alf complaining loudly that sturles' node shouldn't work the way it does because it's improper
(trilema) nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380 << against better judgment, i figured i'd go back and re-read sturles' conversation just in case i'd missed something
(trilema) nubbins`: morning folks
(trilema) nubbins`: anyway. peace. asciilifeform feel free to leave your particulars with gribble for me
(trilema) nubbins`: if ever there was an indication that mp stopped giving a fuck about anything but spending the usd he cashed his btc out into, this is it
(trilema) nubbins`: aaaand ftr i meant what i said about being relieved of duties, imagine sending a 17btc tx out into the wild and then /sending the same amount of money again from a different address/
(trilema) nubbins`: seems pretty obvious that in a huge backlog of transactions, one of them is going to be the lowest priority
(trilema) nubbins`: sorry guys, anyone who thinks MP's explanation makes more sense needs their head checked at a trauma hospital
(trilema) nubbins`: behold your king!
(trilema) nubbins`: bbl i need a drink
(trilema) nubbins`: occam weeps
(trilema) nubbins`: or, y'know, bitcoin is dead because a chinese mining cartel is selectively blocking BITBET PAYOUTS.
(trilema) nubbins`: no big surprise
(trilema) nubbins`: i tried putting it in simplified english for you, but it didn't take
(trilema) nubbins`: sturles wrote it
(trilema) nubbins`: lel, "go write a theory"
(trilema) nubbins`: "no, you don't get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"
(trilema) nubbins`: try another one!
(trilema) nubbins`: i like how when you run out of logical rebuttals it's all "dude" and "srsly, just w/e"
(trilema) nubbins`: do you suppose maybe there were other 0-fee high priority transactions floating around at that time? hmm? check out a graph of the mempool size
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ stopped reading after "according"
(trilema) nubbins`: like talking to a bag of hammers
(trilema) nubbins`: you try again
(trilema) nubbins`: because there was a lineup for the cheap seats because of the mempool flood
(trilema) nubbins`: then a1 blocked a4
(trilema) nubbins`: then a1 blocked a3
(trilema) nubbins`: a1 blocked a2
(trilema) nubbins`: use your reading comprehension skills
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;calc 8/4
(trilema) nubbins`: yes, 4 tx's over 8 days
(trilema) nubbins`: and nodes don't have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.
(trilema) nubbins`: accepting but not advertising them -- isn't
(trilema) nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
(trilema) nubbins`: you're sniffing glue if you think a cartel withholding bitbet payouts is the simplest explanation
(trilema) nubbins`: ("you don't get to say what the logic is! &c")
(trilema) nubbins`: how ya figure, because the logic doesn't follow
(trilema) nubbins`: i cannot see the ground!
(trilema) nubbins`: i feel bad carrying on but this is seriously the highest lelevator i've ever been in
(trilema) nubbins`: SEEMS JUST AS LIKELY.
(trilema) nubbins`: or, y'know, a cartel blowing their cover by fucking with bitbet payouts.
(trilema) nubbins`: but if three other high priority taco lovers clog their toilets first, i'm waiting in line
(trilema) nubbins`: listen, i'm a high priority customer at Mr. Rooter
(trilema) nubbins`: a 0-fee tx during a mempool flood is like expecting to hitch a free ride from turkey to macedonia
(trilema) nubbins`: all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats
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