mircea_popescu: also that ballas quote re giving up the capital.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-23 15:58 mircea_popescu: the discussion is readily mappable to its perfect equivalent which we oh so often rehash here : "i wonder what microsoft issued extension makes my operating system secure ?"
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-23#1742457 << "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a tx does not carry own hash inside it ( how could it ), one has to compute it on the fly
whaack: well the txn hash is provided as the inputs in the future blocks but each new txn in a block does not provide a copy of its hash as well afaik
whaack: Ultimately what I want to build is a tool to determine how much a miner can obtain by "defecting" from segwit from the current mempool
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 21:25 asciilifeform: whaack: not difficult to add up all of the various 'softfork' liquishit tho -- it shows up as 'cannot decode' on ben_vulpes's blockviewer
whaack: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741795 << I have code to take his blocks and count up all the satoshis in the outputs that have undeterminable destinations. This is not very useful without also subtracting the coins when they are spent. This requires storing the txn hash and output index while I count up the satoshis. However ben_vulpes's api does not provide the txn hash and I have no CL code (yet) to calculate it.
mircea_popescu: exactly like reddit, a website someone made in the hopes of becoming a millionaire.
mircea_popescu: yes, schmucky mcschmuckersson, the REASON your software can't be powerful is EXACTLY that your software unicodes. not for the unicode itself, but for what the unicode IS.
mircea_popescu: "tmsr claims to be more powerful than the us, but i have my doubts, because their software doesn't even unicode."
mircea_popescu: the discussion is readily mappable to its perfect equivalent which we oh so often rehash here : "i wonder what microsoft issued extension makes my operating system secure ?"
mircea_popescu: the complaint re mp's perceived lifestyle neartly folds into the general problem : "i think mp might be a millionaire as usg defined that term for me, but it seems in a sense fake, because he doesn't display the markers usg trained me to recognize. i wonder, if usg controls my perception of my own wants in the sense of defining how their perceptible form looks, why i don't get to be a millionaire ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no but that's the very point!
asciilifeform: 'If you want to make real money in crypto, you don't get attached to one coin and you don't hodl, you also don't put all your money in bitcoin either, instead you do coin hopping' << didjaknow!!
asciilifeform: 'You can also try to solve one of the 7 millennium math problems for 1m each.' << hey there's a neglected get-rich-and-famous scheme!
asciilifeform: 'just be female theory strikes again'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-23 15:26 mircea_popescu: yet... they do not know how to do it. AVERAGE salaries in the collegiate fields are about 100k/year, that means a 1mn income EACH DECADE, for AVERAGE performance
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-23#1742442 << much smaller than this, if you count what % they get to ~keep~. end up with '3rd world' figure.
mircea_popescu: complete and utter failure of the "social contract", at that. it's like a sailing school that fails to produce sailors, this ourdemocracy that fails to produce millionaires.
mircea_popescu: and these kids dunno how to be millionaires.
mircea_popescu: yet... they do not know how to do it. AVERAGE salaries in the collegiate fields are about 100k/year, that means a 1mn income EACH DECADE, for AVERAGE performance
mircea_popescu: the only fucking reason, point and selling characteristic of anglo college is "making money", and there's no quantum below 1 million dollars.
mircea_popescu: though mostly quoted for the fundamental prpblem -- these are college educated or educating esltards (maybe not ALL at MIT, but if you're on the internet.en you're either out of or currently in college) WHO DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BECOME MILLIONAIRES.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other morning lulz, http://looksmax.net/Thread-Purplepill-what-are-legit-ways-of-making-millions-is-it-just-climbing-corporate-ladder?pid=65809&mode=linear
mircea_popescu: contrary to pretense, under 1% of those are actual rapes, as defined by the only proper measure : "did you fight first ?"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i'd say they're working great.
BingoBoingo: "To put specific numbers on this, the report notes that studies consistently find that more than 90% of prison rapes are inter-racial and racially motivated. Blacks are found to be some 80% of the perpetrators, and whites are the vast majority of victims. Again, this is easily accessible in a peer-reviewed report published at a mainstream outlet. (So how are desegregated prisons working out for us now, huh?)"
BingoBoingo: Hence the bagplan
mircea_popescu: the cat not worth teh skinning.
mircea_popescu: and i'll insist and underline that no, can not be the case these are people. if i can emulate 10k of them on a stock amd, they're not people, they're 1/10k of a stock amd.
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's the entomological value here : that these EXACTLY IDENTICAL fucktards haven't yet heard of THAT fashionable bullshit. so they're still working the old style nonsense. yet the underlying opcodes are very visibly exactly the same.
mircea_popescu: apparently what, on the basis of this malfunctioning spam script they also don't have basic logic in romania now ?
mircea_popescu: the neuroscience fucking culture so help me.
mircea_popescu: " At Buyerbrain, Ioana performs as a researcher and as a multidisciplinary perspective analyst, disseminating and promoting the neuroscience culture while also applying those principles to marketing and communicating the laboratory." you understand me ?!
mircea_popescu: phf it's not that they don't have toastmasters in romania. it's that they don'tr have anything if you're born after 1980.
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, i had the same thought until she started speaking, i mean, shit, they don't have "toastmasters" in romania? practice your talk before going in front of people
mircea_popescu: for the same money could pretend to cultural engineering. which, obviously, they do.
mircea_popescu: but this is the fucking "career" of these schmucks. born 83, graduated "college" 2003, worked as a fashion-culture-pop-media "editor" at some obscure local paper, then became "a PR officer!!1" by now pretending to "cultural management". motherfucker. management ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i randomly clicked a link from an 2008 article by the itisa dood. i suppose he was fucking her at the time or w/e.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-23 04:40 mircea_popescu: they're all fucking terrible. this one breathes like she's 1/3 on the way to orgasm.
mircea_popescu: "it's open source which means you don't have to know anything, just copy some codes from the endless information highway". ioana calen xrumer.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, wetware-run fake accounts are real!!!" like hell they are. the fact that zuck uses a buncha biosacks to do the job of ten lines of perl doesn't mean the biosacks aren't really shitty raspberrypis. what the fuck next, he's gonna run the shitstorm on z80s and pretend like the z80s are people because "they're louder, slower and burn more energy than proper computers" ?! THEY STILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING.
mircea_popescu: in short, i've had it with the aferations of social participation coming from the facebook fake accounts up to fucking here.
mircea_popescu: yet there she sits, and like her one billion utterly useless facebook tards. i've no doubt she votes, but not randomly -- she thinks she reasons! and in another decade she's gonna write a "book". and so fucking following.
mircea_popescu: and since we're on this : i'm particularily insulted by the pretentions of ex-"journalists" owners of no more than two pairs of undewear and no two meatballs to rub together in their entrails at any given point that they're you know, postmodern women with preoccupations and opinions and options and whatnot. this shithead made in her entire 10 year long professional life a little over one bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: buncha "speakers" that are SO FUCKING ANXIOUS you'd think they never spoke to people.
mircea_popescu: they're all fucking terrible. this one breathes like she's 1/3 on the way to orgasm.
mircea_popescu: and in other black girls code lulz, rorc girl explains FOSS : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-QUSXpy3sk&feature=youtu.be&t=111
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: See 13 Celebrities Who Have Rocked Jennifer Aniston's Rachel ...: <http://www.instyle.com/beauty/honor-friends-reunion-13-celebrities-who-have-also-rocked-rachel-haircut>; Jennifer Aniston reveals why she hated 'The Rachel' haircut: <https://www.today.com/style/jennifer-aniston-reveals-why-she-hated-rachel-cut-t20831>; The Story Behind Jennifer Aniston's Rachel Haircut | PEOPLE.com: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: !~google the jennifer hairdo
asciilifeform: what was the 'jennifer generation' ?
mircea_popescu: and in other news, it was established in teh harem over dinner that human demographics should prolly work on the basis of the alcohol used to spawn them
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if an anthill could speak, it would use word 'ourself' << And the termitories use ourself too
shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/altcoin/comments/7eveiu/bitcoin_2x_the_next_generation_of_crypto/dq7pvn2/
asciilifeform: you're prolly better off reviewing the fundamentals of information theory ( shannon et al )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aside from von neumann, and the crc encyclopaedia of well-known algos, i cannot in good conscience recommend much reading. there are works devoted to specific known attacks on rsa ( song y. yang, plus a few ru items ) ; at least 1 dead tree on differential cryptoanalysis ( how items like des get trivially demolished ) whose author presently escapes me; and that's just about it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the writer is typically a schneier-style wretch who made 'the bargain' and very well knows about otp
diana_coman: that being said, whenever I find I don't even have that poor picture as full and as clear as I'd like, I'm still left with little other choice then to go and read; possibly again, what can I do
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I suspect it's quite possible that the writer would end up with that q so... no book
asciilifeform: to produce the brick of nonsense that follows
asciilifeform: including the otp proof would immediately invite the q, in even a half-awake reader, of why the fuck the rest of the tree had to die
mircea_popescu: dun look good together.
asciilifeform: ( and , jaw-droppingly, just about every book 'on crypto' omits the otp proof. that very same, that constitutes the alpha and the omega of what's actually proven in the subject at all )
asciilifeform: but as for the general principles which a naive n00b might hope to find in such a work -- there's nothing since old man john von n.
asciilifeform: which is why 'hitting the books' is a very limited proposition. the most that can generally be asked from the dead trees, is an accurate picture of the popular algos, plus details of the most well-known attacks on various (e.g. lenstra's, pollard's, etc )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there is ~nothing serious printed on the subject publicly since... von neumann
mircea_popescu: now, the expectation is that a full day of play will produce less than say 2^15 or so messages.
mircea_popescu: in ~principle~ serpent doesn't expose the key anymore than it exposes the cipher. the claim is that if you know about 2^100 or so plaintext-ciphertext matches you can extract the key.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, and then when client enciphers with 1 from a set of 8 selected from those 16: does this mean reusing that 1 key for as many 128 chunks that particular eulora message has? or do you mean 1 per chunk ?
mircea_popescu: but if memory serves the "attack" on serpent used 2^100 plaintexts sorta deal
mircea_popescu: and suddenly the fg entropy debit is relevant : eulora server will be capable to produce iirc no more than 64 serpent keys/second per installed FG.
mircea_popescu: the major advantage of which is that user will be able to enjoy security flowing from server even without own fg.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i guess we'll define a "control packet" which is always the first 128 bits of every comm, which will contain data such as "killed key #x moved to #y" and also "running out of keys send moar".
mircea_popescu: diana_coman thereby all game packets will be multiples of 128 bits, and in principle a client can live off the first original rsa op its entire life if it so wishes.
asciilifeform: iirc this is the scheme asciilifeform originally suggested.
mircea_popescu: this actually seems a rather workable method tbh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, so what's the work mode here, every now and again server sends client a rsa-encrypted packet containing 16 aes keys ; client enciphers its comms to the server with one selected from a set of 8 selected from those 16 ; and deciphers server's with one selected from set of 8 other than previous set. now and again burns a key.
mircea_popescu: check it out, diana_coman has found de-facto work-around to "my theme overwrites text up top" : put an intro in, page or so before code :D
asciilifeform: ( in other 'gangrene ? what gangrene?' horrors : 'LibTomCrypt is pretty nice to read (only bug found in last 10 years was in prime generation — failed to iterate Miller-Rabin)' -- from turd https://comsecuris.com/slides/slides-bignum-bhus2015.pdf re broken bignumatrons. cited line presented as a 'hey it's pretty good'... )
mircea_popescu: so basically we'll be reusing serpent keys, is the idea ?
asciilifeform: ah with no splits then yea
asciilifeform: i read that line as a restatement of the ancient 'seekrit algos are a stupidity, honest crypto keeps only privkey seekrit' truism
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 14:55 mircea_popescu: this is the problem with "complexify the code machine" tendency. somehow it appears intuitively evident that having a portion of the code INSIDE the machine is "a more complex, therefore a more secure system". it is not. 100% of the key belongs in the key.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dja recall the discssion with apelyobee fellow ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737658
asciilifeform: y'know the splits dun all have to be ciphered with same scheme
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the current serpent www is at the very minimum known to be missing items from before
mircea_popescu: OTHER 1998 documents, of lesser political sensitivity, exist there in original format.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the "specificication" published on cambridge page is most likely a later fake. it's a 2006 item supposedly of a 1998 document.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, let me see if I got this right re "patch": simply apply serpent as it is and then at the next level up glue x keys together and send as "key", glue the corresponding x outputs together and use as "output"; basically lump together 16 serpents
mircea_popescu: in other lulz from same source (ross anderson of cambridge) http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/tamper.pdf
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right you are, it's in the... 2006 spec.
asciilifeform: because ultimately yes 'down to the 4bit sbox!'
mircea_popescu: it's bullshit all the way down, "the 4096 bit block gets cut into 16 sub blocks to be fit into rotorizers that cut each block into 64 bits and process with their 4 bit s boxes". because we're from the fucking cartoons.
mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever, diana_coman : the correct implementation approach to patch the 256 bit serpent into 4096 bit rsa is to cut every rsa block into 16 fragments, cipher each independently with diff keys, then paste the 16 keys together make 4096 bit of key.
asciilifeform: modular exp is intrinsically costlier , at least on pc iron, than the idjit rotorization used in symmetrics
asciilifeform: it does cost moar tho. even once i'm done with the asm version.
mircea_popescu: dja see why i'd muchly prefer a native tmsr.rsa length symmetric cypher rather than this nonsense ?
asciilifeform: ( the latter is defined as a family of functions, and so 'rubber' )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 21:45 asciilifeform: anyway for 512bit key, you still keep the 128bit block. but each time you have incoming 128b plaintext, you shamir it rngistically into 512bits, i.e. 4 128b parcels that must be xor'd to reconstitute the original. each of these get ciphered with one of 4 independently-generated 128b keys.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-07 18:00 mircea_popescu: It gets worse. Nearly every AES implementation using AESNI will leave two values in registers: The final block of output, and the final round key. The final block of output isn't a problem for encryption operations it is ciphertext, which we can assume has leaked anyway but for encryption an AES-128 key can be computed from the final round key, and for decryption the final round key is the AES-128 key. (For AES
asciilifeform: almost impossible to bring up crypto in heathendom without a 'voice in the crowd' 'helpfully' reminding about 'standardized, well-designed aes'
mircea_popescu: apparently AES is one of those topics where someone could just pick up the log discussion over 3 years and make anencyclopedia entry
a111: Logged on 2015-07-12 03:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/minigame-smg-august-2014-statement/#comment-114754 << don't you find it a little odd that even on an obscure liuttle game such as eulora, someone does find the time to carefully probe me about aes ?
a111: Logged on 2016-02-06 16:55 mircea_popescu: derp #1 : "What is wrong with existing block ciphers like AES? AES has been in widespread use for over a decade and to the best of my knowledge, there is still no practical attack on it (unless someone has built a working quantum computer and not told anyone about it). Its totally free of patents and IP issues. Its been implemented in a huge variety of hardware and software (including the Intel CPU that I am using to m
asciilifeform: ( in the shannon sense. you haven't narrowed down what the 4th could be, by knowing 1..3 )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: observe that knowing 1,2,or even 3, gives you 0 bits of info re the original.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742164 << hey, next the "instruction function of soviet pioneer org in protecting the poor clueless adults from toxic facts and hate truth" will emerge. and then, probably, the NEP. and then, i guess, the http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-enforcement/#footnote_0_55204
asciilifeform: diana_coman: lemme give specific example. start with splitting 1 byte. to split byte B into X and Y, you take byte R from rng, and compute B xor R = X. then Y = R . X xor Y = B .
ben_vulpes: writing niggers on the wall is basically shooting babies, trinque omfg be more sensitive
trinque: they didn't even shoot anyone
trinque: how did someone writing niggers in a school bathroom make the news?
ben_vulpes: "School superintended Keith Marty said it was a surprise to staff that the student responsible was not white." still? STILL a surprise? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5108107/Student-writes-white-lives-matter-N-word-mirror.html
diana_coman: I think I need to read more on this, so I'll hit the books
asciilifeform: ( your encipherment speed is limited to 1/S of your rng's bit rate, where S is the splitness )
asciilifeform: you thereby get a 'ratchet'. which afaik is the only hard strength result in all of crypto aside from von neumann's otp proof...
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 21:26 asciilifeform: so, for instance, you can prove that a k-of-k (must have ALL parts) shamir split, where you then take each share and encipher with different method -- will NEVER be weaker than the strongest cipher used.
asciilifeform: anyway orig method is in log, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618462 << merely in application to slightly different form of the problem ( how to combine voodoociphers in such a way that the result can in no circumstances be weaker than the strongest of the items )
asciilifeform: back to the shamir scheme : the only thing i can properly prove about it, is that it isn't weaker than straight single-key-with-no-splits
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 01:03 asciilifeform: picture the following 1-dimensional automaton, that eats bitstring in sets of 2bits, and : '10' -> 'tape step left' ; '01' -> 'tape step right' ; '11' -> invert bit at current square; '00' -> terminate.
asciilifeform: the 1 aspect that historically bothered me, is that enemy knows now a relation between the plaintexts in the 4 streams
diana_coman: ah, it was the construction on top you had in mind
asciilifeform: on the decipherment end, each split gets deciphered with the respective 128b key , and the four parcels xor'd to form the plaintext again.
asciilifeform: anyway for 512bit key, you still keep the 128bit block. but each time you have incoming 128b plaintext, you shamir it rngistically into 512bits, i.e. 4 128b parcels that must be xor'd to reconstitute the original. each of these get ciphered with one of 4 independently-generated 128b keys.
asciilifeform: to expand a K-bit (block and key, we'll assume, are each K-bit) voodoocipher to J bitness, xor split ( on rng ); having generated J / K independent keys; each incoming plaintext block of J bits, is cut into J / K blocks, and each enciphered with the corresponding key. decipher -- same.
diana_coman: it is there now
asciilifeform: truth be told, all published symmetric ciphers are fundamentally liquishit, and for approximately the same reason ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477746 ) . they divide merely into the 'already publicly broken' and 'not yet'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 17:09 asciilifeform: the political history is also rather interesting (it was on track to winning the 'aes competition', received fewest thumbs-down votes from the panelists, but mysteriously torpedoed by usg and did not win)
diana_coman: well, I was trying to keep my scope there relatively narrowly focused on serpent itself; it's not a very short post as it is anywya
asciilifeform: the process whereby rijndael became usg's national One Troo Cipher was as dubious a thing as could be expected.
diana_coman: replacement for des rather
a111: Logged on 2015-01-17 22:38 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler.
diana_coman: hm, right; creation of "aes" rather than replacement, right
asciilifeform: the item at the time known as 'rijndael' was crowned by nsa, and was proclaimed 'aes'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: well 'a candidate replacement for the algorithm used at that time under the name of “Advanced ..' is not quite it, they competed for the usg tourney crown
diana_coman: asciilifeform, let me know if you see anything weird in there
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/22/taming-of-the-serpent-in-ada/ << Ossasepia - Taming of the Serpent in Ada
BingoBoingo: In other news. USG.blue youth program has instructed parents to not have their daughters hug family members and to discourage hugging especially in cases where girl has recieved gift from said family membe
asciilifeform: feel free to upload the vdiffs/sigs to the ml yourself if you can think of a reason why it belongs there
mod6: yeah, the first message says as much.
asciilifeform: mod6: trb ml was really not imho the proper place for it: mpi is not used in trb
mod6: asciilifeform: if there are updates (that are complete & published) for MPI, you may want to update the BTC-Dev ML with the new changes, and reference the original: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-October/000175.html
asciilifeform: in other noose, sci-hub.cc dun resolve nomoar.
asciilifeform: or how about the 'pre-allocated vs not' nonsense
asciilifeform: in other lulz : http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/11/21/4 ( https://archive.is/N6vFJ ) << 'bignum fuzzer that compares the results of mathematical operations (addtion, subtraction, multiplication, ...) across multiple bignum libraries. Among these is the Go programming language, specifically the "math/big" package [1]. Recently, the fuzzer found a problem in its exponentiation operation...'
asciilifeform: also phf's linked pediwiki item is hilarious : '...floating material in lava lamps, extracting random data from the pictures, and using the result to seed a pseudorandom number generator.[1] Although the secondary part of the random number generation uses a pseudorandom number generator, the full process essentially qualifies as a "true" random number generator due to the random seed that is used.'
asciilifeform for some reason unable to turn up the thread in the l0gz where we did the 'rng design is not a technical problem , but a political problem' thing
asciilifeform: and then again somewhere else.
asciilifeform: phf: consider the sheer degree of unabashed cargocultism in the endless rehash of the lava lamp thing
asciilifeform: ( am i the only one who actually uses phf's very spiffy pointy-hand arrows ? )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 13:04 shinohai: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/lava-lamps-encryption/ <<< in other faux phuctors (page refuses to archive for me)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742041 << it's not surprising that cloudflare's piece doesn't mention lavarand, but the original was invented at SGI and has a couple of patents around it https://www.wired.com/2003/08/random/, https://web.archive.org/web/20010926221159/http://lavarand.sgi.com/
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : p&g cut 100mn off its "online advertising" budget 2nd q ; saw zero impact.
mircea_popescu is evidently working towards a unified theory of mpdom.
asciilifeform: ( will also point out, the lamps per se contribute ~0 entropy, arrangement is really ~same as hashwhitening output of camera static with the lens cap on )
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 13:04 shinohai: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/lava-lamps-encryption/ <<< in other faux phuctors (page refuses to archive for me)
mircea_popescu: iirc the early ones were different.
asciilifeform: when they started fritzchipping
asciilifeform: ( not, say, like the famous fdivbug in '90s )
mircea_popescu: (the bug i mean.)
mircea_popescu: huge strategic mistake publicizing that item, but sadly i r not yet in the position of making ALL the calls.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: chaum is esp. sad case, was at one time actual thinking d00d, invented afaik hashtronic 'proof of work' , then proceeded to narrowly avoid doing anything useful with it
asciilifeform: at the same time fixing , i strongly suspect, the bug that recently showed promise of making the whole thing removable
asciilifeform: in other noose, chaum ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-10#1365552 ) peddles promisetronic shitcoin, https://archive.is/DQPVe , as if he had any reputation left to burn
spyked: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yVbXl/?raw=true <-- most of it is config.sub and config.guess. two lines at the end may fix shinohai's troubles. anyway, I'ma post the whole thing (w3m+gc+js+whatever else) once I manage to do a static build.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 13:23 spyked: shinohai, https://sourceforge.net/projects/njs/ (would be cool if there was out of sourceforge link too... /me will have to host all these somewhere publicly at some point)
spyked: I like w3m as well. the codebase is surprisingly easy to understand (took me a few hours yesterday to get a vague idea of how modules work together), though I have no idea why they need a gc. links is even more minimal, but I use w3m mainly because it runs in emacs.
spyked: all these libraries (gc + njs + others) can be embedded in the original w3m and made self-contained (including removal of shared library nonsense, like gc was linked in 0.4), but they'll require me 1-2 full days. to put on list
shinohai: grrrr .... thanx for assistance spyked. I rather like w3m (because inline images) but truly needs a lot of cruft removed and things organised - mainly the sourceforge madness.
spyked: shinohai, https://sourceforge.net/projects/njs/ (would be cool if there was out of sourceforge link too... /me will have to host all these somewhere publicly at some point)
spyked: the original w3m-js patch adds a -ljs compilation/link-time flag. now, there's another issue: if your libjs is in a path that the run-time linker can't find (e.g. /usr/local/lib as opposed to /usr/lib), it will fail again at some point.
shinohai: Nope, not available in repos either .... got a sauce?
spyked: shinohai, I know why the patch fails, though not sure why it fails without it... did you also compile and install libnjs? e.g. on line 1840 in config.log, "cannot find -ljs". hm. I am guessing you should have it installed if w3m-0.4 worked for you.
shinohai: I know I have builit it plenty of times, I'm trying to remember if there was some patch for that, don't recall
spyked: (ftr, libgc is why I rebased the patch on w3m-0.5.3 in the first place; for some reason the "mktable" executable generated by w3m was segfaulting in the gc library, while I knew 0.5.3 compiled on my system before, with libgc from debian sources)
spyked: shinohai, I remember getting this as well at some point. can you also paste config.log? the js library bits that I added to ./configure are very hack-ish (IMHO the thing shouldn't be dynamically linked anyway, so I just hacked through it to make it work)
spyked: the configure/make output, that is
shinohai: Hmmm .... I have the gc repo though, still fails.
spyked: ah crap. yes, I installed the gc lib from the debian repo. I don't know why they removed gc from the w3m tree
shinohai: Its ok spyked .... this is the one I tried, albeit in a Debian VM. ./configure keeps failing for me saying there is no gc
spyked: shinohai, sourceforge, unfortunately (w3m devs still host it there for some reason). exact link: https://downloads.sourceforge.net/w3m/w3m-0.5.3.tar.gz same for the njs library; one sec, I'll look it up
shinohai: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/lava-lamps-encryption/ <<< in other faux phuctors (page refuses to archive for me)
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: !~later tell spyked got a question regarding the w3m patch when you have a sec.
mircea_popescu: oh they're still going on with their pretensions to sovereignity and whatnot, "firewalls", bs.
RagnarDanneskjol: Everbright Bank has, by far, the lowest entry barriers for business or tourist visitors opening new accounts.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu I may have someone worth inviting to chan for interview in the coming days. Most of the folks I know over there are primarily oral translators, so having to look around a bit. Just got back yesterday - BJ is a real shithole but the people are adorable, lots of good duck. FYI - 'VPN AC' (Romanian) seems to be the only one working well/consistently behind the firewall (I've used many) and
mircea_popescu: and in antique trilemas for the rotaku club (ie, great pieces i'm too lazy to translate), http://trilema.com/2012/pizdita-sau-antropologie-printre-taranii-de-la-oras/ aka mp knows more about "toxic manhood" an' "rape culture" than your local fabecook expert.
mircea_popescu: you're familiar with how industrial technology looked at the time, the machine'd have a list of items internally, and glued on a piece of paper giving the words per item
spyked: mircea_popescu, I understood that. the point is, McCarthy's Lisp system still uses strings internally in some form.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 19:38 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741179 << you can just ignore the whole "string" question in first version, McCarthy's lisp used symbols instead of strings (that's why early nlp code, like eliza all come out as DOG SAID, HELLO) and the only operation you could do at some point was read and eq.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741759 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1741862 <-- string not a primitive, but -- "string" datatype aside -- symbol names are (conceptually) strings, so they (the symbol names) require an internal representation etc. cons'ing characters upon reading was simplest approach I found to storing and structuring them. con: list cells introduce memory overhead; pros: avoids arrays and magic numbers like
a111: Logged on 2017-11-21 19:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1741176 << i don't need to consider that, i grok metacircularity, i.e. there's no such thing as builtin symbols. bytecode or not is lateral to that point.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741755 <-- crap. sorry for the confusion! I was thinking about builtin functions, not symbols. need a meaningful way to point symbols to those things, and meaningful way revealed itself once I finally grasped your point. /me proceeds to rewrite symbols+builtin pieces.
ben_vulpes: good example of tmsr as antireddit: nothing in the "nollij of crowds", but if yr lucky some sages will come by with a set of koans to set you rethinkin priors
BingoBoingo: ^ The update
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/11/22/and-the-arrangements-continue/ << Bingo Blog - And The Arrangements Continue
asciilifeform: always seemed like ripoff, 10-20x the cost of normal film
mircea_popescu: ~only utility for those is "baby's first naked pic" back when they didn't shave, didn't suck cock and didn't habitually strip naked in company.
asciilifeform: hm, interestingly, the crapola inside polaroid is quite nasty, picture alkaline battery that's been rotting for 20 yrs
mircea_popescu: also, shaving foam on the inside of doorway.
asciilifeform: yea stuck doing sumthing with the window.
asciilifeform: other find : 'scotch' tape is not usable in darkroom experiment : it triboluminesces
asciilifeform: lol! loox like i picked the winning horse...
mircea_popescu: (all the proposed definitions are at least somewhat reasonable)
asciilifeform: it's a contact print in either case
mircea_popescu: mind how you calc the distance.
asciilifeform: polaroid actually is known to make ~decent adhoc ~beta~ ( the relevant particle, gamma goes ~right through without any useful effect ) film
asciilifeform: btw this is approx same as what they look like if burst unexposed.
mircea_popescu: bathroom in most us places works as dark room, screw in red light plug the window if it exists.
asciilifeform: meeeaanwhile in failed experiments, asciilifeform tried to take an xray of the bolix-ivory die, so as to get moar realistic microscopy quote at some point. method : ra-226 capsule (commercial geiger test src), b&w 'polaroid' film. weakness turns out to be the latter : when developed using rolling pin, fixer pouch bursts, and result is liquishit
BingoBoingo: "How did he make his money?" "Communism fell, there was money running porn studios in the 1990's, and now he alternately builds and unbuilds empires"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo *you would if you could import the fresh tuna.
mircea_popescu: oh, in other lulz : costa rica failed to send anyone to miss universe competition (some indian midget won in china). on the basis of observed data... this is correct.
mircea_popescu: cafe trebol sa. would shrimp there again!
mircea_popescu: so i go into shop that has you know, coffee toaster and a buncha nuts etc, and go "camarron ?" and the woman looks at me befuddled, so i'm like "semillas de camarron!" and she's eyeing me like wtf then realises. "maranon ?"
BingoBoingo: The co working space is a block still further. The mall is a block to the north. The Pocitos and Buceo playas are equidistant.
BingoBoingo: Next nearest place with similar setup is on other side of Pocitos neightborhood, while this one is across street and around block from World Trade Center
mircea_popescu: i forget the rest.
mircea_popescu: and all the world were new!
mircea_popescu: "rent is 100 but i don't have to spend 150 to get language lessons, o noes, im 50 in the green here"
mircea_popescu: not bad start. find a shared apt deal among the students after, will be cheaper in the sense of paying for itself via roommates.
mircea_popescu: eventually late 70s incarnations looked exactly like the early nissan suvs. of the 90s.
mircea_popescu: then the romanians added 10% hp / 10% speed etc five years later. then added 15% more five years later. and so on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz head of the reds, ie, vaguely left-centrists. but rather, because somewhat opposite to usg party.
mircea_popescu: ^ there, suv.
mircea_popescu: so i do feel an inclination to just drive them over.