Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-06-19 | 2014-06-21 → ↓
moiety: lol whats the poinbt
moiety: point
moiety: assange did an ama
assbot: I am Julian Assange, publisher of Wikileaks. Ask me anything. : IAmA
asciilifeform: mentions of asking the poster to pgp/gpg...
asciilifeform: (he could be you, me, hitler)
asciilifeform: (is assange even associated with a key?)
asciilifeform: decimation: aes hard disk << what actually happens inside the drive? how does one know? this is not a minor detail - it's the beginning and end.
assbot: Why didn't Julian Assange use PGP properly when handing over the US State Department cables.csv file to David Leigh ?? - WikiLeak
asciilifeform: lol at expecting anyone to have sympathy for the folks who lost their heads from cables.csv (assuming any)
moiety: asciilifeform: to do an ama, reddit requires proof ... i wonder what form this took for assange
asciilifeform: in any country, there is - starting from local constabulary to the national gendarmerie - an archive, with list of stoolies, provocateurs, agents.
asciilifeform: sometimes - rarely - mob gets the list.
asciilifeform: heads roll. new regime, new list.
asciilifeform: (usually heavily borrowed from old. in east germany, how many heads rolled? zero)
asciilifeform: when turning stoolie - remember about the list.
asciilifeform: '...the names of political dissidents who were in contact with the US Embassy' << 'world's smallest violin' plays.
asciilifeform: reminds me of a convo i once had with a former american soldier (remains nameless)
asciilifeform: him: 'those motherfuckers, can you believe, they shot my translator the first minute he was alone.'
asciilifeform: me: 'say tomorrow chinese come. i learn chinese, become translator. i turn my back to you in dark alley. now what'
moiety: what did he say?
atcbot: 35k@250 52k@240 16k@235 | 750k@175 50k@161 216k@160
asciilifeform: he didn't say much. possibly - understood.
asciilifeform: 'More interestingly, many Americans no longer even understand the concepts of loyalty and treason—again, not surprising, since for a few generations now they have been ruled by traitors, whose routine acts of betrayal are designed to benefit just about anyone—from Israeli arms smugglers to Afghani heroin dealers—except the people who supposedly elect them to office.'
assbot: ClubOrlov
moiety: they are very dedicated to fighting for their country but they don't seem to know truly why
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.21999976 = 1.32 BTC [+] {3}
danielpbarron: 01:39:44 < Ex0deus> monetary incentive makes people do all the wrong things
asciilifeform: punkman: old.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
punkman: asciilifeform: I liked that slide
assbot: Mamarazza | andrewcusack.com
BingoBoingo: !jd mpif
assbot: Current MPIF account balance on Just-Dice: 171.88204254 BTC; +0.03342066 BTC (+0.0194%) since last check 7h 40m 44s ago.
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021706 BTC (Total: 434.14 BTC). Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00021726 BTC [+]
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 18936 BTC profit, 51.7k BTC invested, 1260.27 mio bets, 5.31 mio BTC wagered
assbot: We’re Telling England There’s a Chance! | FiveThirtyEight
moiety: someone just told me the scottish accent was their favourite english accent -_-
BingoBoingo: Did you correct them...
moiety: i said that's like me saying the american accent is my favourite canadian accent
moiety: apparently they meant english language and just said it wrong....
BingoBoingo: No, it's like saying the Boston accent is your favorite Southern drawl
assbot: Scientists find Achilles' heel of antibiotic resistant bacteria - Telegraph
BingoBoingo: Which organism mentioned does not belong...
moiety: at least they are both in the same country
assbot: Draper Labs Develops Low Cost Probe To Orbit, Land On Europa For NASA - Slashdot
BingoBoingo: moiety: They don't want to be though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.0689999 = 0.966 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !Whysofewtrades
BingoBoingo remembers the days assbot was ignored as spamzor #1
punkman: I'm surprised nothing more plausible than bitcoinbourse has come up yet
BingoBoingo: It's sad to have to say this, but as bad as it is Cryptostocks seems more plausible than bitcoinbourse
punkman: not many hitpoints left there
BingoBoingo: Well neither venture has many. The question is, which snail is the fastest.
BingoBoingo: Well, that was maybe two months ago. Now the question is "Which aquatic snail is the fastest on the Utah salt flats"
punkman: the omgdecentralized exchanges are keeping all the great minds occupied
assbot: [ANN][ALT][Altcoin][scrypt Adaptive N-factor][Random][Fair Launch][No ASIC]
fluffypony: you have to feed them news regularly
fluffypony: otherwise the natives get restless
assbot: Diamond Circle - Information memorandum - Ticker 'XDC' - Cryptostocks.com
punkman: "NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF THIS DUMP OR ANYTHING?"
BingoBoingo: punkman1: These fucking aussies who strike out on their own are a form of the worst.
BingoBoingo: punkman: Also is this dude even talking about BTC here or his own invention he bestowed an already occupied name upon https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=431195.msg5374007#msg5374007
assbot: Diamond Circle - Information memorandum - Ticker 'XDC' - Cryptostocks.com
assbot: Cookies Loaded with $52,000 Worth of Cocaine Seized at Newark Airport
assbot: Real Startup That Mails You Quarters for Laundry Isn't Seeking Funding
cazalla: BingoBoingo: didn't you know that the biggest Australian export after resources are bitcoin scams? (inputs.io, hair dresser ipos, kenilworth and on it goes)
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I thought it was sand...
Apocalyptic: will be counted into GDP no doubt
BingoBoingo: This is basically CoinBase http://washboard.co/
assbot: Washboard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15886 @ 0.00080343 = 12.7633 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00080276 = 11.3189 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.21209405 = 0.8484 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.20690622 = 4.5519 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 29 @ 0.20575862 = 5.967 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: !up Vexual please get in the wot, i'll help you
Vexual: I'll be less fun if everything I write is signed
Vexual: and jurov might want the key when I sell my soul to him
Apocalyptic: <Vexual> I'll be less fun if everything I write is signed // you seem to have a misconception here
Vexual: hows that?
Apocalyptic: having a WoT account doesn't mean everything you write is signed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.205 = 0.615 BTC [-]
Vexual: no thats true
Vexual: afaik no such irc client is in the public domain
fluffypony: so with my flight to Estonia on Monday I have normal business class baggage limits - 32kg x2 checked, 8kg x2 hand luggage - but my local flight from here to Joburg has a 20kg *total* baggage limit
fluffypony is going to get shafted with excess baggage fees
fluffypony: R25/kg ($2.33-ish)
Vexual: are they hard arse about it?
fluffypony: just phoned them - they'll increase my free limit to 30kgs
fluffypony: such kindness.
Vexual: just put all the gold in your hand luggage and think light thoughts
xmj: fluffypony: when are you boarding?
fluffypony: xmj: Monday night
xmj: right
xmj: :)
xmj: fluffypony: i haven't found the tailor yet. been busy all week
fluffypony: no problem - we can always go hunting
fluffypony: I land at 1:30pm on Tue
xmj: right
fluffypony: so we can go hunting in the afternoon
xmj: give me a call once you land
fluffypony: will do
Vexual: what does one hunt in estonia?
fluffypony: Vexual: tailors
fluffypony: for excellent Eastern European suits
Vexual: but where do you get the tweed?
fluffypony: it grows naturally in the tweed fields of Southern Estonia
Vexual: oh
xmj: see, he already knows more about the country i live in than i do.
xmj: fluffypony: you're flying from frankfurt with lufthansa
xmj: do yourself a favor and have fun with the stewardesses.
xmj: they're usually really cool
fluffypony: will do
Apocalyptic: <fluffypony> for excellent Eastern European suits // curious, I never heard anyone praise EE suits before
xmj: whenever i fly fra<>tll i choose one of the last rows, and by the time they're done serving people hang out in the back and chat with them.
xmj: just for the lulz.
Apocalyptic: Milanese tailors often are
xmj: Apocalyptic: mainstream!
Apocalyptic: hardly
Vexual: too much ball touching
xmj: Apocalyptic: average salary level in estonia is 800EUR.
xmj: so you'll be able to find a real decent tailor for less than you'd spend in other places.
Apocalyptic: that I can agree with
pankkake: !up Vexual
xmj: Apocalyptic: economics 101:D
Apocalyptic: xmj, when I go for excellent i don't look at the price
xmj: ya
xmj: i work in IT, tshirts are permissible work clothes.
xmj: tshirts and shorts in summer ;)
pankkake: I wouldn't trust someone in IT with a suit
Apocalyptic: as you wouldn't trust someone in finance dressed in a tshirt supposedly
pankkake: I wouldn't trust anyone in finance!
moiety: lol
Vexual: web of no!
Vexual: real IT people don't leave the house
Vexual: 150Kpa and get dressed? too much pressure
Vexual: it's all about bitcoins per square inch now
Vexual: anyone know about the gpg multi irc client?
moiety: !up Vexual
moiety: no, here you just register with gribble, its really straight forward
Vexual: yes im talking of something else entirely
atcbot: 35k@250 52k@240 16k@235 | 750k@175 50k@161 216k@160
Vexual: %diff
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 715369.85 Est. Next Diff: 432963.19 in 457 blocks (#36288) Est. % Change: -39.48
Vexual: whats that about a month?
BingoBoingo: Maybe? Maybe less?
Vexual: ;;calc 457*1/24
gribble: 19.0416666667
BingoBoingo: I have to say it looks like bid depth is back in fashion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10393 @ 0.00080343 = 8.35 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.068 = 1.088 BTC [-] {3}
moiety: !up Vexual
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.06682465 = 0.6014 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 585.64, vol: 6505.86423318 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 585.996, vol: 5448.09482 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 586.0, vol: 7981.63740987 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 589.99, vol: 48.0889131 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 595.257585, vol: 2221.48030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 589.18043, vol: 8.21155122 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 577.943901, vol: 59.93883116 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 23 @ 0.06570882 = 1.5113 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Flying RoboCop is a riot control octocopter with guns and lasers | Ars Technica
Vexual: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
moiety: ;; laserkittens
gribble: ุ ₍˄.͡˳̫.˄₎ ุ ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew*
Vexual: wtf
moiety: we need manuls with lasers!
assbot: BBC News - The macabre world of books bound in human skin
Vexual: sup nubules?
Vexual: nubbins`
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.06361 = 1.9083 BTC [-]
assbot: 04. Wiley - Straight Outta London [Creating A Buzz Vol. 1] - YouTube
moiety: sorry my internet had a stroke
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00080111 = 18.8261 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.19516873 = 5.8551 BTC [-] {8}
kakobrekla: >I just uncovered a problem. I'm using the API to trade. I'm generating orders, and they are accepted by Bitfinex, but thats the extent of it. I have an orderid, time stamp, and the response says the trade is active. They don't get processed, and the history doesn't get updated. I've sent an email to support, but was just wondering if anyone else has seen anything strange like this. Seems to have start after 4:30 this afternoon. Th
kakobrekla: last time a trade was written to my history.
kakobrekla: gox qualitat.
los_pantalones: kakobrekla i'm submitting orders via api
los_pantalones: and they are working fine
kakobrekla: its a quote from the forums
kakobrekla: im not using that piece of shit.
los_pantalones: oh shit, i'm a jackass, sorry
kakobrekla: no worries
assbot: Washboard
los_pantalones: signed you up for that
los_pantalones: as a mea culpa
kakobrekla: what is this some bitcoin mixer
los_pantalones: no, you pay $15/mo for $10 in quarters
los_pantalones: delivered to your door
kakobrekla: i dun get it
BingoBoingo: It's exactly like COinbase!!!
kakobrekla is prolly retarded
los_pantalones: nothing to get, it's retarded
los_pantalones: twas but a poor joke
BingoBoingo: Washboard is a startup whose business is you send them money, and they return to you less money!
los_pantalones: in physical form
BingoBoingo: An Honest Startup!
los_pantalones: to be fair, the people in the photos look really happy
kakobrekla: ahh! but i just need new underpants.
pankkake: I hate dealing with small monies, I usually leave the change - I don't mind paying "more"
pankkake: well this service does the reverse
BingoBoingo: Eh, the ATF is probably going to go after them when one of their customers fills a sock with their quarters and uses the product as a weapon.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 85 @ 0.01805932 = 1.535 BTC [-] {12}
pankkake: !t h am1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.19420000 / 0.21482589 / 0.22599900 (208 shares, 44.68378540 BTC), 7D: 0.18410000 / 0.21502034 / 0.25983989 (1039 shares, 223.40612862 BTC), 30D: 0.11000000 / 0.25820242 / 0.50990000 (5201 shares, 1342.91079699 BTC)
BingoBoingo: %ticker
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 235 Last Price: 235 24h-Vol: 58k High: 235 Low: 200 VWAP: 200
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15771 @ 0.0008015 = 12.6405 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: LOLO - Hit and Run by LOLOmusic on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
mike_c: decimation:if you total the amount of money spent on microsoft over the years, USG could have built its own secure OS and secure hardware to run it on << on the other hand, they couldn't even build a fucking website with hundreds of millions of dollars.
Mats_cd03: usfg lubed up the wheels and now healthcare.gov works p good
Mats_cd03: prob compromised already, but hey...
assbot: ./SecondMarket and /BitcoinTrust now accepting orders for syndicate in US Marshals bitcoin auction. Details/access: https://t.co/VFK7XiRUZH
assbot: DOROTHY - After Midnight by Dorothy & The Band on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
FabianB: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021711 BTC (Total: 434.24 BTC). Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00021726 BTC [+]
assbot: When people call you intelligent it is because they agree with you. Otherwise they just call you arrogant.
assbot: Mt. Gox Victims Angered by Mark Karpeles' Twitter Return http://t.co/Xly4qIdh5M
assbot: CWJobs.co.uk
bitcoinpete: £80,000 per annum wouldn't be shabby if you didn't have to live in the city
mike_c: heh, the replies to all of karpeles recent tweets are great. what did he think was going to happen?
bitcoinpete: karps was probably just feeling lonely
bitcoinpete: that's what social media is mostly for
bitcoinpete: getting feedback
davout: the best for karpy would be the french "légion étrangère"
davout: new identity, free workouts
bitcoinpete: he can afford the workouts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.74984813 BTC to 9`369 shares, 18677 satoshi per share
pankkake: I think he's a piñata, but with bitcoins inside his body
davout: pankkake: you mean he shouls be hung somewhere ?
davout: *should
pankkake: why not.
assbot: Which stock securities do you recommend ?
bitcoinpete: ya, mpex has the fakiest volume around
kakobrekla: !t m s.bbet
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0.0005 / 0.0005 / 0.0005 (281 shares, 0.14 BTC), 7D: 0.0005 / 0.0005 / 0.0005 (2000 shares, 1.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00047 / 0.00048574 / 0.000525 (8628 shares, 4.19 BTC)
kakobrekla: yea, real volume is over 9000 fyi
bitcoinpete: i mean, how could anyone have so many bitcoins?
mike_c: plus he got it wrong. it's MPEx, not MPex.
bitcoinpete: "^^MPex --> fake volume, site operator is dishonest and in SEC's crosshairs. Would avoid."
mike_c: btw, free money alert. mpif ask below nav.
mike_c: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com: Failed to get JD stats
bitcoinpete: it's not mircea pexchange?
mike_c: aww. i blame JD
pankkake: mike_c: well, that's jurov work
pankkake: job*
kakobrekla: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021732 BTC (Total: 434.65 BTC). Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00021726 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: sometimes its fast sometimes it dosent happen at all
pankkake: I never followed bitfunder, but I wonder how it ended up as such a fractional reserve
thestringpuller: NAV is going above last trade, very nice
thestringpuller: very nice indeed!
pankkake: while I don't believe btctctc faked volumes
mike_c: kakobrekla: but that error handling! kudos to us :)
fluffypony: pankkake: railzand is cool, I know he reads logs
fluffypony: not sure if he ever hangs around here
fluffypony: but he's pinged me with stuff from time to time
pankkake: railzand, why not in the WoT, mate?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 260 @ 0.01992805 = 5.1813 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: US college offers athletic scholarships to 'League of Legends' players | The Verge
pankkake: nice. well starcraft would be better
danielpbarron: Dota would be better still
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 32 @ 0.0186 = 0.5952 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Schools Are Using Starcraft 2 as Serious Education Tools | Gamification Co
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 32 @ 0.06361007 = 2.0355 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: <+mike_c> you add a bunch of A records in the DNS for active nodes. i'll let you know.// ah, i assumed i needed to place some sort of text file at the domain to get picked up, but i am somewhat comfortable with DNS so I can do that too if needed
mike_c: ok. i would like for some eager dev to port bitcoin-seeder, but nobody has volunteered yet.
mike_c: so maybe we just do it manually for now.
ThickAsThieves: <+bitcoinpete> "your use of vocab is the least impressive and your facts are skewed only to meet your own objectives." /// Stop being mean to Litecoin! (I just proposed a new bet that Dark(coin) will defeat Lite(coin) :)
ThickAsThieves: <+fluffypony> I already linked to the github repo for it /// i'm not sure what that means, tell me what to do!
benkay: good morning, assettes!
mod6: %d
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 715369.85 Est. Next Diff: 429352.57 in 441 blocks (#36288) Est. % Change: -39.98
FabianB: $depth f.mpif
empyex: FabianB: [F.MPIF] Bids: 556 @ 0.00021733 100 @ 0.00021711 100 @ 0.00021710 100 @ 0.00021708
empyex: FabianB: [F.MPIF] Asks: 10000 @ 0.00023850 56 @ 0.00023900 1000 @ 0.00024000 100000 @ 0.00029000
atcbot: 35k@250 52k@240 16k@235 | 750k@175 50k@161 216k@160
assbot: Yo, the World's Dumbest App, Hacked by Three College Students
ThickAsThieves: holy netsplits
moiety: hello
kakobrekla: so tell me people, i need to make some api with signcryption model. should i go with sodium (ed25519), or just use pgp or something else? Curve25519 wont do (no signatures).
mike_c: just roll your own. new standard.
davout: kakobrekla: sodium sounds quite new
kakobrekla: does it?
davout: march 2013
pankkake: do you have size constraints?
davout: the hot chicks do
kakobrekla: with the message size? not really but shorter is generally better (but not for sake of security)
mike_c: ugh. shame on your family.
assbot: www.bitcoin-otc.com | 404 - Page Cannot Be Found
pankkake: gpg can do ecdsa, though it's not accessible by default
davout: pankkake: that's gpg2 only iirc
pankkake: using gpg gives you the option of multiple schemes
pankkake: people still use gpg1?
ThickAsThieves: <+punkman> last 3 Yes bets on bastille bet are losers ///i look forward to those bettors finding their way here to complain
assbot: Re: [openpgp] Curve3617 in OpenPGP? Beyond rfc6637.
davout: kakobrekla: one advantage i'd see with gpg is that it would be easier for humans to use it manually
kakobrekla: its not meant for manual
kakobrekla: if its api
davout: well, it doesn't hurt that it's easily testable by humans, just sayin
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
kakobrekla: yes but 99.99% of the time its used by machines, so lets optimize for that.
davout: pankkake: i have 1.4.13, doesn't seem to have any ECC enabled
pankkake: with gpg2 you have to enable expert mode
kakobrekla googles
davout: kakobrekla: "yes but 99.99% of the time its used by machines, so lets optimize for that." <<< if you follow this logic, all APIs would be better off using some binary protocol instead of JSON :D
kakobrekla: i will do base64 encode of the json, motherfucker.
davout: your face is base64 encoded
kakobrekla: only in the morning.
davout: for storage ?
BingoBoingo: Just use RSA and base 69 it
FabianB: why not bson?
BingoBoingo: 1MB keylength, because storage is cheap
kakobrekla: why not a lion or a hippo then!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 30 @ 0.02069181 = 0.6208 BTC [+] {3}
FabianB: or Smile
benkay: Diablo-D3: i'm eating biscuits and gravy and it's the best thing ever
BingoBoingo: Why not. Seed the PRNG with randomized hippo matter.
BingoBoingo: benkay: I'm just chewing on some raw wheat like god intended.
davout: "i'm just eating an apple like god intended"
benkay: !up Diablo-D3
benkay: i'm interacting with the system gpg binary like god intended
pankkake: apples are ok, unlike the horrible things mentionned
ThickAsThieves: "Update your client, HARD FORK! Friday we will begin paying MasterNodes - Latest Client Stable: 9.10.1 and RC3 with Darksend is 10.10.1 - See downloads!" ~ Darkcoin developer
ThickAsThieves: conveniently occurring just as the price topped
pankkake: is this the closed source altcoin that just repackages CoinJoin?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves please let's refer to it by its proper name: Darkcon.
fluffypony: I'll be over here in the Monero corner giggling evilly
ThickAsThieves: all i know is day trading it has been much profitable
ThickAsThieves: monero is rocketing too
ThickAsThieves: how do you even buy it?
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Isn't monero the same bullshit since it isn't Altcoin, the only worthwhile altcoin
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: it's not forked from Bitcoin, so that already makes for a change
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: Poloniex has the most volume
fluffypony: but when XMR is rocketing then often Bittrex is slow to catch up
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Forked from BBQcoin?
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: doesn't even use the Bitcoin protocol
fluffypony: no GUI, CLI only
fluffypony: and the reference implementation thereof
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: So you descriminate against most derps then, reddit will nevar let you hear the end of it.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: exactly
pankkake: also wallet and node are separate processes
pankkake: you can run multiple wallets on the same node etc.
fluffypony: and atm we're working on properly daemonising bitmonerod, because it only runs in interactive mode
fluffypony: and splitting simplewallet into rpcwallet (daemonised) and simplewallet (interactive CLI)
fluffypony: oh and it has a 24-word deterministic seed (based on Electrum's wordlist)
fluffypony: so that will make usagi-level fuck ups less likely
benkay: this one cpu one vote thing is pretty bs
fluffypony: benkay: ignore that part - the PoW is up for discussion anyway
fluffypony: it has DEFINITELY lowered the gap between CPU and GPU miners
kakobrekla: IGNORE THE PARTS THAT DONT WORK
kakobrekla: my new mantra.
fluffypony: kakobrekla: of the whitepaper...
kakobrekla: well im keepin it nao
pankkake: but as always, the useful/working things could just be ported to Bitcoin
fluffypony: pankkake: ring signatures would be INCREDIBLY kludgy in Bitcoin
pankkake: why?
benkay: anonymity is also a red herring
fluffypony: gmaxwell has a test implementation of it, but judging by his comments in #monero-dev he doesn't like its fit with BTC much
fluffypony: benkay: in what sense?
fluffypony: try a transaction, look at it on the blockchain explorer, and then see what useful info you can derive at a mixin of 0
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for Yes on "Costa Rica will advance from the 2014 World Cup group stage" http://bitbet.us/bet/921/ Odds: 72(Y):28(N) by coin, 56(Y):44(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.655 BTC. Current weight: 36,106.
benkay: wow integer btc hitting the wc bets
benkay: fluffypony: it's not a use case for the vast majority of users, and for those who actually care solutions already exist.
fluffypony: that's only true *right now*
benkay: lol what are the solutions going to disappear?
fluffypony: what are the solutions? coinjoin? mixers? stealth addresses? hoping that the recipient never leaks the tx id?
benkay: buying coins offline.
benkay: sending them to fresh addresses.
benkay: broadcasting txns like a boss
benkay: (that is to say quietly).
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2HPF4FW.txt )
benkay: i tell you man, red herring.
fluffypony: and then when you buy your illegal drugs or your very legal banned-thing-in-the-country-in-which-you-live you send it TO someone from those fresh addresses, and they can figure out who you bought it from
fluffypony: I would hazard that buying offline is even more dangerous than OTC on IRC
BingoBoingo: What, you don't use BitBet mixing?
benkay: who can figure out who i bought what from now?
fluffypony: benkay: when you are "buying coins offline" you're buying them FROM someone, no?
benkay: de veras
fluffypony: some fucktard from localbitcoins or mycelium or whatever
benkay: otc counts as offline imho
fluffypony: either way
fluffypony: that exposes you
benkay: how again?
benkay: and to whom?
fluffypony: gubmint suspects you are dealing in illicit books, so they setup a sting to sell you BTC - they are now able to watch you spend those coins on said illegal books
fluffypony: because they are the ones selling to you
benkay: dafuq
benkay: so...assume they've suborned one of my regular coin sources?
benkay: you have this whole story concocted that you're not sharing, man.
fluffypony: no story - I'm arguing that a use case will exist for untraceability (or optional traceability, if you will) in future
benkay: and i'm telling you i can buy coins untraceably right now.
benkay: unless my source is suborned.
benkay: in which case, even monero's SOL.
fluffypony: not entirely
fluffypony: the Monero blockchain won't reveal your balance, when you spend, how much you spend, or on what
benkay: and all the btc blockchain shows is that some random addr got some coins at some point
benkay: and then that those coins went to a known drug dealer at another point
benkay: if the shipment gets intercepted on the way back to me, monero's not going to save my ass
benkay: you're not actually doing the attack surface analysis man
fluffypony: drugs are not the only use case
benkay: thing-im-not-supposed-to-have-#42
fluffypony: but you've just explained the problem in your example
fluffypony: if you're being targeted by "them" then they know "some random adde"
benkay: how?
fluffypony: aforementioned sting operation
benkay: suborned my dealer, you're saying.
benkay: the coin salesman
fluffypony: and then you said that Monero was SOL
fluffypony: and I said it wasn't and explained why
fluffypony: and then you launched forth into a circuitous argument
benkay: so the dealer can't say i sent coins to that address with monero?
pankkake: also the idea here is that by default everything you do is hard to track
fluffypony: he can say all he want
fluffypony: he can't demonstrate you did
fluffypony: the blockchain won't reveal you did
benkay: that i did what now? sent coins to my drug dealer?
benkay: k - but what about the package interception?
benkay: the posession of illicit goods is what enforcement cares about, right?
fluffypony: depends - if you're talking about drugs, sure
fluffypony: stolen goods? they just care that you bought it
fluffypony: what about digital goods?
benkay: digital goods being stolen coins?
fluffypony: no - I mean if you're buying digital goods
fluffypony: iTunes vouchers, for instance :-P
benkay: but illegal iTunes that i'm not supposed to have?
fluffypony: so assuming that the delivery of the goods is not compromised
benkay: okay so the story is that i get busted for buying badTunes credits because i sent coins to the badTunes address?
asciilifeform: they... suborn your cook. who poisons you. blockchain - didn't help! cry?
benkay: yeah srs asciilifeform
fluffypony: well we'll see, I think time will tell whether untraceability is a desirous thing
benkay: i'm telling you that it's adequately doable right now that the sidechannels are the real risk, and that no amount of blockchainery is going to ameliorate your sidechannel risks.
benkay: can someone who's not a retarded american tell me if i'm off my fucking rocker?
benkay: retarded american child
benkay: (i'm not calling you names, fluffypony - that's me ridiculing myself)
fluffypony: I know you weren't, I'd have been surprised if you thought I was American :-P
benkay: i'm a wee bit more observant than that. but you know, ambiguity and IRC.
fluffypony: "YOU DIDN'T PUT A SMILEY ON IT, YOU MUST BE SAYING SOMETHING MEAN"
benkay: ugh internet people
benkay: anyways
danielpbarron: how can law enforcement be sure it's you who spent the coins if you simply send them to an intermediate address first
benkay: (biscuit coma)
fluffypony: danielpbarron: taint analysis - it's the reason that coinjoin and mixing isn't considered safe
benkay: danielpbarron: or for that matter if the addr in question's never been seen on the network, and you're not idiotic enough to associate it with any IP that could be associated with you.
benkay: ugh taint
benkay: *ragequit*
danielpbarron: there is no taint in Bitcoin
assbot: Bitcoin Coinjoin Not Anonymous v01
fluffypony: that would be a start
danielpbarron: if i send funds to an address, you cannot be sure its my address; maybe i gave them away to a random address
fluffypony shrugs
fluffypony: nobody's forcing anyone to find Monero interesting
fluffypony: if you like maths and cryptography you may find our ongoing peer review of the CryptoNote whitepaper interesting
danielpbarron: if you pay your drug dealer from your coinbase wallet, that can be traced
fluffypony: I've gotta bounce, at a friend's house and we're going to go eat and drink
danielpbarron: and i suppose if you send from a machine that is associated with you, that could be traced
danielpbarron: but i don't see how the blockchain reveals any info that definitively associates the funds with you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00080393 = 7.3158 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: ;;bc,diff
gribble: Error: "bc,diff" is not a valid command.
kakobrekla: i forgot.
mike_c: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 306867 | Current Difficulty: 1.346258011452534E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 308447 | Next Difficulty In: 1580 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 18 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15544170485.6 | Estimated Percent Change: 15.46205
kakobrekla: its been so long since i used that cmd.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: cancel the celebration party.
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03: much shame upon family << srs.
moiety: hello :] how are you mircea_popescu?
mircea_popescu: pretty great.
mircea_popescu: how about you ?
moiety: very well, been snowed under but getting through everything :]
mircea_popescu: ah, snow... i remember this snow thing
assbot: CARISIRT: Yet Another BMC Vulnerability (And some added extras) | CARI.net Blog
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (intel never once in its entire life published anything but a mockery of 'open source.' see their 'open' bios, for example.) << sadly. which is why everyone's on amd, really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol
asciilifeform: everyone's on amd << thought it was just me.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've not bought anything intel the past 20ish years.
mircea_popescu: roughly since the disatrous p1 math accelerator.
asciilifeform even now running amd hardware ('tyan' circa 2007) largely because amd mobos with ecc support and multiple pcie-16 slots have vanished into some mysterious black hole.
moiety: i'm still running intel celery because my laptop broke so back to an old one. it's dire!
ThickAsThieves: the redskins are very lucky actually
ThickAsThieves: the gov gave them an easy revival, rename, rebrand, cool new name and jerseys and fans
ThickAsThieves: other than the expense of the change, i bet it works out well
asciilifeform utterly bewildered that 'serious' people are willing to use non-ecc ram.
ThickAsThieves: The Chicago Blackhawks declined to comment about the Washington Redskins' loss of trademark protection Wednesday
mircea_popescu: they;re somehow in danger too ?!
ThickAsThieves: of course
ThickAsThieves: soon we wont be allowed to say indian
mircea_popescu: but blackhawk ? nada a ver ?
ThickAsThieves: ;;google chicago blackhawks logo
gribble: Chicago Blackhawks: The Official Web Site: <http://blackhawks.nhl.com/>; Desktop Wallpaper - Chicago Blackhawks - Fan Zone: <http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47379>; Chicago Blackhawks Logos - National Hockey League (NHL) - Chris ...: <http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/7/Chicago_Blackhawks/>
ThickAsThieves: there ya go
ThickAsThieves: just a happy lil injun
mircea_popescu: so after having their land stolen and later their population exterminated,
mircea_popescu: indians are now going to be erased from written record and culture too
mircea_popescu: under the guise of "protection
los_pantalones: ah, excellent point
ThickAsThieves: all to spare the ego of Uncle Sam
mircea_popescu: peculiarly extensive implementation of damnatio memoriae srsly.
asciilifeform: ;;google jahiliyyah
gribble: Jahiliyyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyyah>; Jahiliyyah - Oxford Islamic Studies Online: <http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t125/e1157>; Use of the Word “Jahiliyyah” (Period of Ignorance) - islamqa.info: <http://islamqa.info/en/103660>
ThickAsThieves: they just renamed a school in Jacksonville
ThickAsThieves: cuz named after KKK wizard or such
ThickAsThieves: was a huge fight
ThickAsThieves: but a local rapper won eventually
Blazedout419: Sad how overly sensitive the USA is these days
ThickAsThieves: interestingly, in a WoT/BTC/Mircean world, all bad things are permanent record
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: so gotta keep x86/winblows relevant somehow << can't imagine how that'd work. by now the stack is quite ample : x86 running windows to connect the owners of bitcents to reddit.
mircea_popescu: it's like... might as well consider the problems of the amiga universe.
ThickAsThieves: amiga is a good name for a universe
mircea_popescu: a defunct one.
asciilifeform: think how it would've went, if jack tramiel had bought himself a congresscritter or two
mircea_popescu: or if he just killed antonoderpulous.
asciilifeform: where was the latter in, say, '85 ?
asciilifeform confused
ThickAsThieves: so i've been getting lost in the world of day traders lately, found some google hangouts where people do screen shares and voice chat about charts, etc
mircea_popescu: idiots are perennial.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how's voice chat work ?
ThickAsThieves: i mentioned irc at one point, and someone asked, why dont you guys just use voice chat?
ThickAsThieves: which sparked my interest, maybe we should have an open line
asciilifeform: idiots still have bitcents remaining? thought they've been vacuumed up by now
ThickAsThieves: they use Google Hangouts
ThickAsThieves: which works fine
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves because irc is non blocking.
ThickAsThieves: but you could do voice on Ventrilo or such
mircea_popescu: i can rant while you talk.
mircea_popescu: if we voice chatted it'd be like the bdsm brunch.
ThickAsThieves: just a thought
mircea_popescu: iirc someone made trilema rift guild a ventrilo
mircea_popescu: so it's already existent
mircea_popescu: dunno if it gets much use
mircea_popescu: no wait was a mumble
ThickAsThieves: it would by the raiders
asciilifeform: we should have an open line << what's it cost / who one needs to kill / etc. to get a shortwave channel?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to argentina, australia and everywherew ?
asciilifeform: 2 or 3 repeaters, sure.
asciilifeform: when solar flare, people will take break, get some wurk done.
ThickAsThieves: google hangouts are recorded in 8 hour sessions too, and able to be live broadcasted on youtube, so we've had some dialogues and such as 'entertainment'
ThickAsThieves: anyway that's what ive been up to
mircea_popescu: by the way, re the intel thing and atari : in 1983, game consoles sold like 3bn dollars' worth (in 1983 dollars, like ten trillion today). by 1985, it was 100 mn (9x% drop)
mircea_popescu: these things DO happen
asciilifeform: the infamous desert burial
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so link one ?
ThickAsThieves: i'll have to get it from one of them next time
asciilifeform: (some fool dug up the site not long ago)
mircea_popescu: decimation: "you want to get paid? well, you better write your TPS reports in MS so we can give you tax dollars" << "yeah but how about you don't have tax dollars to give in the first place"
mircea_popescu: the displacement of which bitcoin is keystone is really pretty large.
benkay: i can't wait until my taxable dollar amount is negligible
mircea_popescu: quick boobs
assbot: Why didn't Julian Assange use PGP properly when handing over the US State Department cables.csv file to David Leigh ?? - WikiLeak
mircea_popescu: later that day wikileaks gave up and actually dumped it too.
benkay: boobs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform:
mircea_popescu: 'More interestingly, many Americans no longer even understand the concepts of loyalty and treason?again, not surprising, since for a few generations now they have been ruled by traitors, whose routine acts of betrayal are designed to benefit just about anyone?from Israeli arms smugglers to Afghani heroin dealers?except the people who supposedly elect them to office.' << that's not the why.
mircea_popescu: the why is that for an entire generation now they've been trained to falsely believe that hierarchy is arbitrary and evil, that submission is against human nature and forcing the inferior to submit inhuman etc scl.
mircea_popescu: that system of crud makes loyalty logically impossible.
benkay: someone talked us into trading leadership for democracy, with predictable results.
benkay: i spent my early twenties looking for a man worth my loyalty and then gave up.
mircea_popescu: remarkable how much orlov gets wrong given how much he notices.
benkay: well, worth loyalty and capable of leading.
mircea_popescu: benkay and willing to, is the bitch.
moiety: interesting
benkay: yup.
benkay: not that i found any worth my time to begin with, so i don't even have a sample of potential masters to compare to each other.
benkay: this conversation just got mad gay.
mircea_popescu: well since we're doing mad, lemme tell you a story.
mircea_popescu: i take girl to local bdsm brunch yesterday. bout fiddy local people, all very nice and friendly, some bar somewhere that you'd think you've died and it's greenwich village in 1980 all over again
mircea_popescu: there's this chick that looks just about 12 (and later confirmed her weight as 43 - !!! - kgs) that takes a liking to my girl, they chat, i buy them wine,
mircea_popescu: tells us all about how she's tried being a 2nd subbie in a relationship and it was ok but they ended it amiably and she's not looking for anything
mircea_popescu: meanwhile unattached in-their-own-oppinion dom guys tell me all about how alpha really they are, and then we leave.
mircea_popescu: with the kitten. who, mind you, gets up in a cab and drives away with two guys who are clearly foreigners, barely speak the language, and she's just met two hours prior in a bar at a bdsm munch.
mircea_popescu: past desperate attempts at cockblocking by the entire collected "alpha" population. apparently my chick's unstoppable and really fucking scary to boys.
mircea_popescu: so : there's seeking and then there's seeking.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 132.20522660 BTC to 77`492 shares, 170605 satoshi per share
benkay: i also had nothing to bring to the table for those years. arguably still don't.
mircea_popescu: neither did she. i have more tit.
mircea_popescu: i mean, *I* have more tit.
benkay: but you're out shopping.
mircea_popescu: in spite of which she did everything all night long, i took her to breakfast and then dropped her off in the arms of her mothar.
mircea_popescu: i guess sort-of yeah, that's a point.
benkay: ha so my time for story
mircea_popescu: the gay just won't wash away :D
benkay: gotta pray it away
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, please, by all means, even the story cunt a bit
mircea_popescu: im sick of reading nothing but my own stories in the logs
benkay: so last night i'm at the user group thing, making friends, introducing people to each other, the usual shit necessary to keep a user group's momentum up, and not one, not two but three people on whose skills and capabilities i've been sold for a while come up to me gently asking about opportunities to contract
mircea_popescu: cazalla: BingoBoingo: didn't you know that the biggest Australian export after resources are bitcoin scams? (inputs.io, hair dresser ipos, kenilworth and on it goes) << i've often thought of this. add patrick harnett and a whole other bunch of new zealand folk
mircea_popescu: benkay so you're like made.
benkay: separately, a local company'd killed off their division of programmers who work in this particular stack due to the 'difficulty' of finding them. several of these devs left their employers due to the boss' unwillingness to put steel behind the right technical decisions with clients.
benkay: and i'm sitting over here not exactly swimming in work but definitely a bit busy helping people who trust me to run the technical side of their businesses, and definitely overwhelmed by the talent seeking work with me.
mircea_popescu: so at this juncture you send the boss's boss a link to this log
mircea_popescu: seemingly you're the new boss.
benkay: wat
benkay: just 'cause their boys want to hack with me doesn't mean i get to tell their old firm what to do.
mircea_popescu: says who ?
benkay: well back up a sec - just what does that get me?
benkay: "neener neener i got yer best"?
benkay: where's the ROI?
asciilifeform: programmers << i thought benkay ran a machine shop ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Heretic coin seems dead https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=459028.msg6551501#msg6551501 <<< these people are so retarded it bleeds right off the page. on one hand derps wonder why nobody mines/cares about the coin, and hnt at conspiraci. on the other, guy trying to slel 3mn coins, no news in a month. GEE FUCK I WONDER WHY IT IS NOBODY MINES IT
assbot: [ANN][ALT][Altcoin][scrypt Adaptive N-factor][Random][Fair Launch][No ASIC]
mircea_popescu: benkay gotta give the boss' boss the opportunity to make his own mistake.
mircea_popescu: sane boss approached with this, if it can be documented, cans the underboss that same day.
mircea_popescu: and with extreme prejudice at that.
benkay: asciilifeform: i had no intention of giving that impression. i'd love to own a machine shop but I need a pile more capital to make that happen. ergo...software.
mircea_popescu: "you dumb fuck, i have to hear from random passerby';s how utterly you suck at your job ? go fuck a goad in the market, you're never working in this line again"
ThickAsThieves: Anyone know anything about Titan Bitcoin silver & gold coins?
ThickAsThieves: they seem to be Casascius kinda thing
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i never saw proof they scammed anyone, if that helps.
ThickAsThieves: ;;later tell nubbins [16:11] <+ThickAsThieves> Anyone know anything about Titan Bitcoin silver & gold coins?
gribble: Error: "16:11" is not a valid command.
benkay: it's not that bad a move from their perspective, mircea_popescu. if they want to chase milli+ contracts that run only on .NET and POJ, that's a legit business move.
mircea_popescu: benkay a, i guess you leftthat part out.
ThickAsThieves: ;;later tell nubbins` [16:11] <+ThickAsThieves> Anyone know anything about Titan Bitcoin silver & gold coins?
gribble: Error: "16:11" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: so then, maybe you're running the local bitter loser group, and the fleet sailed long ago. who's to know.
benkay: hey you think i leave details out of stories you should have seen fluffypony earlier
ThickAsThieves: ;;later tell nubbins` Anyone know anything about Titan Bitcoin silver & gold coins?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: mircea_popescu: i thought lispers were all bitter losers to begin with
mircea_popescu: muy true
benkay: but also i'm running a different, longer play.
mircea_popescu: arguably not as losers but bitterer than the other type o coders, but anyway
benkay: dat bedrock
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic: having a WoT account doesn't mean everything you write is signed << why not ? inasmuch as only you could have written it...
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: just phoned them - they'll increase my free limit to 30kgs << fuck them, assholes. seems all short distance is covered by this sort of low service "low cost" bs.
asciilifeform: provokes the question, what do the 'high end' folks do? fly own machine?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more often than you'd think. prices have really come down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i live next to a field full of these things. the fellow i used to rent from owned one. about 40k usd.
FabianB: $traded
empyex: FabianB: Traded in last 24 hours: F.MPIF S.MPOE
mircea_popescu: right ? sorta like a van
asciilifeform: ~what a nice car costs. but, the bureaucracy!
mircea_popescu: well, for one if you fly high enough you don't actually have to report
asciilifeform: wanna start the motor? fill out these here forms...
mircea_popescu: there' sa list of stuff
asciilifeform: related:
asciilifeform: ;;google joseph stack manifesto
gribble: Insane Manifesto Of Austin Texas Crash Pilot Joseph Andrew Stack: <http://www.businessinsider.com/joseph-andrew-stacks-insane-manifesto-2010-2>; here's the Manifesto of Joseph Stack -- "Mr. Big Brother IRS Man ...: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7740464>; Plane Crash Suspect's Diatribe | The Smoking Gun: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: (summary: fellow worked a bunch of ancient software consulting gigs. owed $maxint in tax somehow. told that his little airplane would be sold to pay the debt. went spectacularly postal.)
mircea_popescu: i remember this, was years ago
mircea_popescu: or rehash ?
mthreat: i saw that building after he hit it. It was the IRS building, and he targeted it on purpose
asciilifeform: no, just example of somebody who actually relied on a micro airplane for a living
asciilifeform: which was interesting, because 'tools of crafsman' are normally exempted from auction by creditors
asciilifeform: but (can't recall) either tax authorities are not limited in this way, or they ruled that the machine was not really 'tool of trade'
mircea_popescu: My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions.
mircea_popescu: srsly, the notion that there exists such a thing as "plain language"...
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'd love to have a voice channel, but I think it would work better if we scheduled it - like a session every two weeks or something?
mike_c: i think it's somewhat valid. plain = not a lot of jargon.
mircea_popescu: basically the problem of intelligent people is that the knowledge needed is so vast... i could readily render the pretense and nonsense of it, but i don't have the time/patience to hang out in every nook and cranny.
mircea_popescu: mike_c "plain language" is the conceptual equivalent of "measurement in se". how long is your desk ?
mike_c: it's about yea big
mircea_popescu: so can i use the even-ness of the 129th digit in your measurement reliably ?
mircea_popescu: there's nothing plain about language just like a measurement isn't the thing measured.
asciilifeform: 'I have never seen unintelligent or children of average intelligence muster the intellectual power that causes them to believe their own mind to be better and more trustworthy than reality, although the enjoyment of every kind of magic and fairytales and mystic and wizardry is a sign that many _wish_ their minds were better than reality at a certain age. I have concluded that it is a phenomenal curse when it i
asciilifeform: s and children experience that they can guess faster than they can learn. This latter thing is what I mostly associate with stupidity, however, and why I do _not_ equate intelligence with absence of stupidity. Quite the contrary, the more intelligent, the more potential to be stupid in just this crucial way, to believe that what you can pick out of your own mind at zero cost is better than what must be dug up fr
asciilifeform: om reality at great effort.'
asciilifeform: guess who
mircea_popescu: naggum ?
assbot: 404 Not Found
asciilifeform: stuff it arsebot, it's found.
mircea_popescu: mike_c and the "not a lot of jargon" thing is roughly like the vietnam forest without a lot of vietcong in it.
mircea_popescu: i'd be worried.
mircea_popescu: !up st4rbux
mike_c: for sure, you can't speak about things intelligently with plain language. i can't tell you what's wrong with your computer in plain language.
mike_c: so i guess it's a euphimism for dumb language.
mircea_popescu: moreover, and more dangerously : a term of art that has a common speech homophone will only notify those in the know of its status
mircea_popescu: it's not going to (nor can it) notify the innocent.
asciilifeform: try explaining how to... tie a bowline sea knot - in 'plain language.'
mike_c: you can't. nor can you specify the tax code in plain language.
mircea_popescu: i use the plainest language of anyone i'm aware of, and yet people claim you need a degree to argue with me. wtf is that all about.
mircea_popescu: DO YOU LIEK SPEAK PLAIN ENGLISH ??!
asciilifeform: the most elegant example of the agony of 'plain language' is: attempts at computer programming systems which purported to use such.
mircea_popescu: good example yea
mike_c: it's a starting point, not an endpoint.
asciilifeform: consider:
mircea_popescu: my z80 keyboard had plain language on it : load, merge, save etc
asciilifeform: ^ even with manual, this 2-line script was a pain to write. logically equivalent phrases, all sum to nothing
mircea_popescu: it's great for humour this. "does your desk make your back hurt ? press backspace!"
asciilifeform: 'please press any key' - 'where is the any key'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i hought you loved hypercard ?
asciilifeform: not the script lang
asciilifeform: it was made to torture sinners in an apple-themed hell
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.06380004 = 1.1484 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: somehow, 'hypertalk' was well-liked by serious users. why? theory: it lured a bunch of folks who were 'on the right side of the camel's hump' to begin with - into learning elementary programming
asciilifeform: e.g. lawyers, accountants, builders - people who wouldn't have had any dealings with programming otherwise, and - by many accounts - haven't since.
mircea_popescu: In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each
mircea_popescu: other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made.
mircea_popescu: for the record, had occasion to punish girly to cat food only diet for a week or so.
mircea_popescu: she hated that more than anything in memory.
asciilifeform recalls many stories of soviet emigres dining on delicious cat food upon arrival
asciilifeform: (it is not necessarily clear, to a man innocent of the concept of specially made feed for cats, why he should not dine on a can of tuna with a cat printed on the label)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.06380043 = 0.5104 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: incidentally, mr stack was a firmware builder.
assbot: Plane Crash Suspect's Online Diatribe | The Smoking Gun
asciilifeform: probably could have gotten a slower, but more spectacular revenge.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sheep never make good wolves.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.06498295 = 0.5199 BTC [-]
asciilifeform awaits the epic rampage of a future mr. heap.
mircea_popescu: the reason for that'd be that sheep never make good wolves in the first place.
assbot: Hall of Shame Leaderboard/Awards: Vote for your Favorite Worst Crypto CEOs Ever!
Azelphur: asciilifeform: that site served me the wrong image the first time I loaded the page...so confusing
mircea_popescu: ;;google mircea popescu ceo
gribble: Mircea Popescu | LinkedIn: <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mircea-popescu/23/a1b/21a>; The SEC asked this Romanian Bitcoin CEO for private data. Here is ...: <http://www.ihavebitcoins.com/featured/sec-asked-romanian-bitcoin-ceo-private-data-response/>; An era ends today. A new era starts today. pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/an-era-ends-today-a-new-era- (1 more message)
Azelphur: it served me a screenshot of a small businesses website that creates embedded art firmware/software
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: BITCOIN CEO
asciilifeform: Azelphur: that was the correct photo
Azelphur: asciilifeform: oh, then I'm confused
asciilifeform: Azelphur: it was run by one joseph stack, who crashed a small airplane into a tax authority office in 2010.
Azelphur: I see
benkay: i'm surprised MP didn't get more 'smooth talker' noms
mircea_popescu: i what ?!
ThickAsThieves: benkay consider they all think hanbot is mp
mircea_popescu: inexplicable why it's so easy for scammers on that forum.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 179 @ 0.03847462 = 6.887 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Same here. I think IQ is bullshit and is a way of the gevernments to bracket us. Qualifications are a load of crap too. Who need a piece of paper to tell people that they can create the next "E=MC Squared"."
ThickAsThieves: from Cryptsy trollbox
ThickAsThieves: "Crowdfunding has shown that ANYONE can create or innovate. Not just greedy corporations."
ThickAsThieves: same guy
los_pantalones: have a good weekend ladies and germs
mircea_popescu: a will to power as the only qualification ?
mircea_popescu: remarkable how similar the start and end of civilisation are. sorta like the start and end of man's life.
mircea_popescu: is there any actual anything done via crowdfunding so far ?
benkay: oculus rift?
mircea_popescu: i don't mean nonsense gathering a pile of cash
asciilifeform: the ransom of 'blender' (cad package) ?
mircea_popescu: what's it do ?
ThickAsThieves: some movies and games and shit
mircea_popescu: some gaming headset. meh.
ThickAsThieves: some accessories for phones n shit
ThickAsThieves: i got an NFC ring
ThickAsThieves: which i havent even tried yet
mircea_popescu: so basically, for as long as other people cook, crowdfounding can continue to make the tomato roses.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: ugh. shame on your family. << bitcoin-otc isn't really intended for https anyway is it. or am i missing your point ?
mike_c: my point was it is using cloudflare
asciilifeform: http://pastebin.com/KRbNE256 << my reply to a reader, some time ago, who asked 'why won't you use kickstarter'
assbot: Dear [redacted], [redacted] is, unfortunately, almost the polar opposite of t - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: myeah. giving the site ot mr evil doesn't hurt anything on a plaintext site.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: conveniently occurring just as the price topped << anything having taaki involkved and not being a scam ?
ThickAsThieves: is darkcoin his thing?
ThickAsThieves: i know he's darkmarket
ThickAsThieves: which i think they changed to Open Bazaar
mircea_popescu now has to check digests
assbot: Anarchistic Anonymous Dark Wallet Creator: Amir Taaki | Max Keiser
mircea_popescu: haha whart a bullseye
ThickAsThieves: ok so taaki makes darkwallet
ThickAsThieves: not darkcoin
ThickAsThieves: The brainchild behind Darkcoin, Evan Duffield, explained his motivation for creating this privacy-oriented crypto-currency:
ThickAsThieves: “I believe the central problem with Bitcoin is that the public ledger, although a remarkable accomplishment, also allows a gross invasion of personal privacy by permanently listing all transactions the users have ever done publicly.”
mircea_popescu: "dark-coin-creator"
mircea_popescu: am i misreading ?
ThickAsThieves: no, they are mis-writing
mircea_popescu: he's definitely misreading what bitcoin does, for that matter.
ThickAsThieves: Evan Duffield has given much praise to the Dark Wallet project that was spearheaded by crypto-anarchists Cody Wilson and Amir Taaki, but stated that "it's not a completely decentralized approach.”
ThickAsThieves: or "they are asses"
mircea_popescu: pity for wilson
mircea_popescu: it's sad how many promising young minds are ruined by the predilection of young minds for bad associations
mircea_popescu: today as in 1814
ThickAsThieves: DarkCoin uses 11 rounds of different hashing functions
mircea_popescu: fluffypony http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2014#725708 << this entire convo seems entirely nonsensical to me.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: so you have a guy's affidavit that he sent me 10 btc to addy x in tx y.
mircea_popescu: so what now ?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so ?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: DAISY CHAIN
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd guess: much of the panic re: btc 'taint' etc. comes from u.s. folks, who can be sent to the gasenwagen on very loose - rather than hard, 'scientific' - evidence.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see any evidence whatsoever is th problem
ThickAsThieves: most americans have tainted all their coins by now
mircea_popescu: sothe 10btc is... moved to my wallet, from which a diff sum is spent on whatever, baby squirrel tears. so what now ?
asciilifeform: think 'astrology', not astronomy.
mircea_popescu: it's deposited to mpex, and a sum withdranw to pay for same. so... what ?
mircea_popescu: it's bet on bitbet, and it loses. sooo ?
asciilifeform: 'mr x owns black cat, is a witch'
mircea_popescu: it's moved to another address. so ?
mircea_popescu: they pick you up, you go "sorry, I sold them".
mircea_popescu: what now ?
mircea_popescu: if they ask you who you sold them to, you give them the name of the prosecutor in charge.
asciilifeform: inquisitor: 'ok, find me the fellow who bought. he'll sit on this here stake, next you yours, and will tell the truth'
mircea_popescu: "you, m'lad"
ThickAsThieves: you are suggesting an American to lie!?
mircea_popescu: since we're doing affidavits, prosecutor is welcome to an affidavit as to how he himself bought.
mircea_popescu: and he can go hang himself with it.
asciilifeform: inquisitor: 'libelling a faithful servant of the king, that'll be an extra two years on the stake'
mircea_popescu: no, it's the truth.
ThickAsThieves: Schrodinger's Truth
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as bitcoin taint. attempts to solve this inexistent problem, just like all the other attempts to solve inexistent problems in the history of human engineering
mircea_popescu: are a waste of the presumptive solver's time.
mircea_popescu: many many MANY genius minds wasted most of their time in pursuit of similar nonsense.
asciilifeform: the proposed legal defense, though, will work about as well here as it would've in ussr.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but that is entirely besides the point
ThickAsThieves: taint is a factor for terrorists though
mircea_popescu: no *coin or wallet* will ever solve the ussr-ness of the usa
ThickAsThieves: so taaki is obv a terrorist
asciilifeform: people are obsessed with technical 'solutions' because they cannot afford the actual working solution (suitcase, airplane, new passport)
mircea_popescu: that doesn't make them less of a waste of, presumably, valuable brain gasoline.
asciilifeform: but go tell the mortally ill fellow to renounce the snake oil
asciilifeform: he'll drink whatever.
assbot: Crypto Kidz Digital Trading Cards
fluffypony: how come mircea_popescu doesn't have one?
ThickAsThieves: that reminds me
mircea_popescu: i r just saying so it's said. not intending to persuade.
ThickAsThieves: i was thinking of making a bitcoin comic
ThickAsThieves: if i can make the time
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i didn't have the time to log into rift even past two weeks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.06380017 = 0.7656 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: basically illustrating the hostory of our window into bitcoin
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves wasn't nubbins` in the same boat ?
ThickAsThieves: maybe i dunno\
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: was it you who turned down working F.MPIF on account of living in usa ?
fluffypony: hanbot DID get a card!
asciilifeform counts the folks who told him he's condemned to the wagen
fluffypony: I found MP's
asciilifeform: fluffypony: lol, that's from my voyage photo set, isn't it
fluffypony: just had to scroll down
fluffypony: asciilifeform: yes I recognise the same
mircea_popescu: ahaha what, she's a dragon nao ?!
ThickAsThieves: that is a pretty awesome card mp
ThickAsThieves: you should be proud
fluffypony: you got Super Hero
mircea_popescu: doesn't it need like damage or something ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps i misunderstand this game
ThickAsThieves: i love how the graphics are so shitty
kakobrekla: yup, great stuff
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't shoot.
kakobrekla: wonder if nubbins can print those
fluffypony: res is too low I think
ThickAsThieves: itd be a horrible job for him
ThickAsThieves: many designs, low qty
mircea_popescu: omfg log end!
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeagh, he can print them on rice beads
ThickAsThieves: actually, i could probably make a set pretty cheaply
mircea_popescu: actually a pretty good pic of her huh, she's like the mother of disdain
asciilifeform: just about everyone i showed the pics to, for some reason... wanted that one.
kakobrekla: 15k domains guy know all about bitcoin guy is missing :(
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prolly you know a buncha subbies.
ThickAsThieves: i'm pricing it
ThickAsThieves: it'd be $17 per design to do 100 double-sided UV coated trading cards
ThickAsThieves: plus time to set up all the files
kakobrekla: can you play that?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they're perfectly normal playing cards
kakobrekla: what are the rules?
asciilifeform: playing cards. you can play traditional games with them.
kakobrekla: i remember from childhood, sets of cards that were single, unique game sets
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they have these in usa. with the added twist that the 'official' rules change regularly, requiring purchase of 'fresh' decks
ThickAsThieves: like UNO
asciilifeform: e.g. 'magic the gathering'
ThickAsThieves: ive played my fair share of mtg
kakobrekla: ah i never looked at mtg
mircea_popescu: similarly to <kakobrekla> i remember from childhood, sets of cards that were naked women
mircea_popescu: great for strip poker
benkay: wth is this
benkay: the label on this beer can is misaligned by a whole damn .125
benkay: i wonder if they're printed first and then turned into cans or what.
benkay: ;;ident Mats_cd03
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'Mats_cd03', with hostmask 'Mats_cd03!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egqqpqahqadiceog', is identified as user 'mats', with GPG key id B9527964891A5566, key fingerprint B37F49DC35FD838B1F8783CC59C93F63549036BD, and bitcoin address None
benkay: ah, that's how you're doing it.
benkay: ;;gettrust assbot Mats_cd03
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Mats_cd03: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Mats_cd03 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mats_cd03 | Rated since: Tue May 13 15:07:43 2014
benkay: ;;gettrust assbot mats
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Mats_cd03!sid23029@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egqqpqahqadiceog. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user assbot to user mats: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=mats | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mats | Rated since: Thu Jun 19 20:47:48 2014
benkay: ;;rate mats 1
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mats has been recorded.
mike_c: ;;rate mats 1
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mats has been recorded.
benkay: overwhelming rate tsunami
benkay: of ones
benkay: what am i looking at
benkay: private key generation over http?
benkay: with php for evaluation?
punkman: so I just put together something to test betting strategies on past bitbets and guess what, betting 0.1 on No on all resolved bets would result in a net gain of 9.7 BTC
punkman: (at 90k weight)
mike_c: median gain?
mike_c: or, median result?
punkman: let me check
punkman: mike_c, 0.0747
mike_c: net or gross?
punkman: net
mike_c: impressive.
punkman: I'm just looking at bets with result = No
punkman: total net gain is 36.3 BTC, then I subtracted 26.6 BTC that I would need for the 266 bets that had result = Yes
punkman: 0.1 is the magic number, 0.2 leaves you with only ~4 BTC net gain
punkman: 0.08 on everything also gives ~10 BTC, 0.05 gives 8.5 BTC
kakobrekla: 0.1 on all resolved would mean like 75btc
kakobrekla: 9.7 btc on top is over 10 percent
punkman: yep pretty good strategy eh
kakobrekla: short the world.
punkman: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-have-fun-as-an-intelligent-person/ "Because the outcome is binary, if you bet randomly over a long enough horizon of bets you should break even (well, minus Bitbet’s 1% house edge)."
assbot: How to have fun as an intelligent person pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
punkman: so that's wrong ^
mike_c: how is betting no on everything random?
kakobrekla: well it could be that yes will pay for the next two years
kakobrekla: given the bitcoin community state, id say that is unlikely
punkman: yes now that I've revealed this amazing strategy people will phrase propositions differently and ruin it
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
kakobrekla: you presume people read logs.
punkman: mike_c: my rng is really bad
punkman: but my point was that betting randomly will not break even
punkman: unless you are flipping a really bad coin
kakobrekla: wait until bitbet processes infinite amount of bets.
kakobrekla: er, resolves.
mthreat does this appear in the log
mthreat: appears so
kakobrekla: it appears it appears.
mthreat: if things go smoothly we'll have a #bitcoin-assets log search engine in a few hours
kakobrekla: o you beat me to it
kakobrekla: good job
mthreat: who runs log.bitcoin-assets ?
kakobrekla: some schmuck
mthreat: cool.. i'll hit up said schmuck once it's live, and maybe we can have whatever process adds to the log also send it to the search engine, so it'll be instantly searchable
kakobrekla: hm, can you connect to 0mq socket?
mthreat: i haven't before, but if it's easy to do from java, then yeah
kakobrekla: it prolly is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.20971806 = 1.0486 BTC [+] {5}
kakobrekla: ill set that up at some point then
mthreat: ok, or i can set up an http endpoint where you can POST irc entries as they come in
kakobrekla: tbh i dont think its an issue if sync is done daily or so
mike_c: ^ agreed. pretty easy to search today's log.
mike_c: it's just looking for something said X weeks ago that's a pita
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.065 = 0.52 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: guess which scotus judge has debts.
benkay: but !logsearch "foo" is going to be rad, mthreat, kakobrekla
mthreat: benkay: ya, who runs assbot?
mike_c: some schmuck
mike_c: ;;ident assbot
gribble: Nick 'assbot', with hostmask 'assbot!~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot', is not identified.
benkay: Sumyungai
benkay: ;;gettrust sumyungai
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user sumyungai: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=sumyungai | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=sumyungai | Rated since: Thu May 16 01:23:02 2013
mike_c: who understands this: "ISIL stole $400 million in a raid on Mosul's central bank". what, it was stacked in the corner in bills?
mike_c: i dun understand
asciilifeform: mike_c: usg sent several $b in actual benjamins to iraq. i thought this was common knowledge.
ThickAsThieves: i saw a swallow-tailed kite recently, didnt even know birds that looked like it existed http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OLOeI6hddls/T1YL5sfdhbI/AAAAAAAAHKU/Bt_jCJmbbzM/s1600/swallow-tailed+kit%C2%A9LillianStokes.jpg
mike_c: asciilifeform: so you're saying they filled up some duffel bags and walked out with $400m? that must have been heavy.
mike_c: ;;calc 4000000 / 450
gribble: 8888.88888889
mike_c: 9,000 lbs of money..
asciilifeform: a benjamin weights ~1g
asciilifeform: (same as other us currency)
mike_c: yeah. 4m bills / 450 grams per lb
asciilifeform: 4000 kg, yes
asciilifeform: one dump truck.
mike_c: ok. that computes. seems like a logistical nightmare though. who guards the dump truck with $400m in it?
asciilifeform: a column of identical trucks.
asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't load the truck. but these are basics.
mike_c: somebody who is poor knows which truck has the money. i guess you take that guy out back after he drives the truck where it is going.
mike_c: and also, fu linux. g++: internal compiler error: Killed
benkay: could be worse
benkay: os x
assbot: Context Switches are Bad, but Stack Traces are Worse
mike_c: you know, without the annoying manager.
benkay: python is a code smell
benkay: ^^ new favorite incendiary device
benkay: lob it at a bunch of programmers, watch the sparks
asciilifeform: wtf is a code smell
benkay: fuck if i know, but everyone gets riled up.
benkay: ;;google code smell
gribble: Code smell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_smell>; Code Smells - Coding Horror: <http://blog.codinghorror.com/code-smells/>; CodeSmell - Martin Fowler: <http://martinfowler.com/bliki/CodeSmell.html>
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.0649 = 0.7788 BTC [-]
asciilifeform guesses it is the odour of perl used in confined quarters
benkay: "Code smells are usually not bugs—they are not technically incorrect and do not currently prevent the program from functioning. Instead, they indicate weaknesses in design that may be slowing down development or increasing the risk of bugs or failures in the future."
asciilifeform: tends to make people... hurl
benkay: ouch.
mike_c: kakobrekla: you know bitcoind apparently takes in amounts in fucking btc, not satoshis? you probably knew this. this is retarded.
mike_c: news flash: bitcoind sucks.
kakobrekla: at least it can handle sci notation
kakobrekla: or at least did.
benkay: working with bitcoin stuff makes me want types in a bad way
TheNewDeal: bc,stats
TheNewDeal: bc,,stats
benkay: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 306914 | Current Difficulty: 1.346258011452534E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 308447 | Next Difficulty In: 1533 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 38 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 15853327045.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 17.75846
benkay: ;)
Mats_cd03: c wut i did thar?
benkay: wut u doon
benkay: dis ain't 4chn breh
TheNewDeal: thought I was one on one with gribble there
Mats_cd03: assets search engine? already exists
Mats_cd03: ;;google site:log.bitcoin-assets.com dongs
gribble: NEXT: 10-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2014&bots=true>; NEXT: 24-03-2014 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2014&bots=true>; NEXT: 24-06-2013 - #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2013&bots=true>
Mats_cd03: even works in channel, how nice is that?
benkay: oh c'mon let mthreat be useful
benkay: quit pissing in errybody cheerios
Mats_cd03: my life sux wut m i gonna do besides criticize people
benkay: dunno boss maybe learn haskell?
Mats_cd03: haskell is fucking gay
TheNewDeal: wooooh there. I've seen haskell fuck the hottest chicks
Mats_cd03: my year long vacation from employment is about to end
TheNewDeal: oooh I pulled a 6 month stint last year
Mats_cd03: time to apply to be an it slave
Mats_cd03: anyone want to buy me a nice collar?
TheNewDeal: peraps
benkay: you gotta earn those
TheNewDeal: how do I know it's not going to end up with hookers and blow though?
mthreat: haskell has a purpose ya know. at UT Austin it (was) used as a freshman weed-out class.
mike_c: so, g++ was crashing because not enough memory. it couldn't just tell me that? have to get retarded cryptic error message cuz it ran out of memory?
benkay: Mats_cd03: what kinda IT do you do?
benkay: mike_c: you could be trying to run Jira yourself on the JVM. "not too little memory, not too much. just...right."
benkay: i suspect when one pays for hosted jira someone is staring at htop and intervening manually.
Mats_cd03: i administered win machines and a few linux boxes for the nerds in the clean room at my last IT job
Mats_cd03: along with misc work that comes with being lowest tier monkey in dept
mike_c: benkay: ugh. sounds worth paying for.
Mats_cd03: im learning puppet so perhaps i can buy myself a nice collar
benkay: if you make pilgrimage to puppet hq make sure you ping me - beers on my tab
Mats_cd03: i spent most of the last year doing firmware haxn in hopes id be good enough to apply for like jobs
Mats_cd03: no such luck...
TheNewDeal: holy shit. Tesla was at 30$ last year?
benkay: mhm.
benkay: slt.
Mats_cd03: thanks qt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.065 = 0.52 BTC [+]
benkay: QE, d'ya mean?
benkay: 30 -> 229: it's gotta be Quantitative Easing
benkay: whats the qt you're talking about - not the UI kit?
Mats_cd03: im sayn youre a cutie for offering a drink
Mats_cd03: now im gay
TheNewDeal: hahaha
TheNewDeal: QE is definitely pumping the stocks at the moment
benkay: it's been a queer day, Mats_cd03 - it's not your fault.
benkay: must be the stars.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.06424997 = 0.514 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0639186 = 0.6392 BTC [-] {3}
Mats_cd03: people are unreasonable when it comes to musk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.06373112 = 0.8285 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1025 @ 0.0008 = 0.82 BTC [-]
benkay: they just get a whiff and *blammmo* can't keep 'em off me
Mats_cd03: you'd think he was jesus preparing to take the believers to live on mars
Mats_cd03: from the way people pile on TSLA
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.06340475 = 1.3315 BTC [-] {4}
TheNewDeal: hahaha
TheNewDeal: benkay totally confused me for a second there
TheNewDeal: imagine if he let people purchase his cars with bitcoin
TheNewDeal: reddit would go craaazy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.0610754 = 1.7101 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: and nothing would change.
benkay: anyone with the btc to lay on a tesla can lay the cash on it, and probably more easily.
kakobrekla: afaik you can buy tesla with btc (buttstamp guys didit)
benkay: huh
TheNewDeal: did reddit go crazy?!?
benkay: i guess that's what you get when you sell directly - the freedom to take whatever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 32 @ 0.06006885 = 1.9222 BTC [-] {3}
Mats_cd03: in practical terms it ends up converted to fiat anyway
kakobrekla: there ya go
TheNewDeal: http://mashable.com/2013/12/09/tesla-bitcoin/ this dude bought it for 91.4 BTC. Probably could return it for just as much right now
assbot: Man Buys $103K Tesla Model S With Bitcoin
assbot: Tesla not bought with Bitcoin currency after all? - Autoblog
Mats_cd03: TheNewDeal: ^
benkay: wow there's a fucking hack
benkay: buy a tesla with btc
benkay: let it depreciate
benkay: recoup btc
Mats_cd03: you think dealerships have the freedom to hold btc?
kakobrekla paid 500btc for his golf cart
Mats_cd03: they get fucking bent over by manufacturers, mate
TheNewDeal: I don't think the dealeship would allow your to return it for the same amount of btc
benkay: hang on i may be a few too beers deep to keep track of my +/- axes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10675 @ 0.00079982 = 8.5381 BTC [-]
benkay: buy car, btc appreciates, car depreciates, get fucked.
TheNewDeal: yes but this would have been a different situation, as bitcoin was $1000+ at the time
BingoBoingo: mike_c: This is a troubling increase in hash
benkay: TheNewDeal: mhm.
mike_c: yeah, we lose. it's ok, we had good odds.
TheNewDeal: last two changes effed you guys
TheNewDeal: I guess the 12.44 wasn't that bad
TheNewDeal: this current potential change and the last
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2505 @ 0.00080059 = 2.0055 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0600106 = 0.6001 BTC [+] {4}
TheNewDeal: I wouldn't mind if the hash jumped off a cliff right now
TheNewDeal: or took a big stumble
TheNewDeal: tried to make a little hedge bet on with the next change and it backfired in my face
benkay: don't bet against diff, boss
TheNewDeal: why does everyone say that?
TheNewDeal: part of the bet requires an actual decent estimate on what the diff will be at that point
benkay: hey nerds redis or memcached?
punkman: redis has more useful data structures
benkay: decision made thank you punkman
assbot: Call me maybe: Redis redux
benkay: thanks again punkman
benkay: i'm not facing lots of writes but rather reads
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2780 @ 0.00080059 = 2.2256 BTC [+]
punkman: guy's doing some good there with that Jepsen thing
punkman: *some good work
benkay: aaaand i may not even use a cacheing layer at the end of the day
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.06491932 = 0.9738 BTC [-] {4}
TheNewDeal: wondering how many food stamps have been purchased with bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9645 @ 0.00080333 = 7.7481 BTC [+] {2}
Mats_cd03: what universe do you live in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00079845 = 3.2736 BTC [-]
TheNewDeal: it was a joooke dude
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.06209101 = 1.366 BTC [-] {6}
moiety: amiga?
benkay: hola aiga
benkay: amiga
moiety: hola!
moiety: firefox just lost five pieces of work that ive been doing for past two days, so pissed off
moiety: well not really pissed off, but it wasnt fun. how are you benkay?
benkay: brutal, bruja
benkay: i'm well
benkay: doing some exploratory hacking. it's coming along nicely.
moiety: sounds interesting
benkay: i'm sure you'll see something about it before i die
benkay: but also probably after the cardano ships
moiety: not the smallest window of time XD but i'll wait patiently :]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.06 = 0.66 BTC [+]
assbot: BitBet - Cardano to Ship in 2014 :: 1.08 B (96%) on Yes, 0.05 B (4%) on No | closing in 6 months 1 week| weight: 85`913 (100`000 to 1)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.06 = 1.68 BTC [+]
benkay: TheNewDeal: that TSLA bet is interesting - aren't we p.close to 250 already?
mike_c: TheNewDeal: everyone says that because 1) you can't draw a line from previous diff changes to future (see moore's law), and 2) despite this it just keeps marching up.
benkay: lol ya diff is watching bitbet just to fuck people who bet against it
TheNewDeal: mike_c , what I'm saying is that some people don't know how to calculate a good difficulty
mike_c: diff is mean-spirited asshole.
TheNewDeal: April, May, and :June were all Nos
mike_c: ok, so with your superior prognostication, what weight did you get on the may bet?
TheNewDeal: guess it was just april and may
TheNewDeal: never said I had superior prognostication
mike_c: hehe. it was implied by "some people can't calculate"
TheNewDeal: I bet at the end of march
TheNewDeal: bet was started at the end of january
TheNewDeal: here's the thing
mike_c: k. betting that difficulty won't double in a month is not "betting against diff"
TheNewDeal: The majority of those that bet Yes on May bet early
TheNewDeal: when it's much harder to tell
TheNewDeal: regardless
TheNewDeal: look at the majority of bets there
TheNewDeal: not just my late bet
TheNewDeal: I'm typically a conservative better
mike_c: the majority were late when it was obvious.
TheNewDeal: I would rather earn a sure, small portion, versus risk a lot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14372 @ 0.00080006 = 11.4985 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: after 84'000 weight, there were only 2 Yes bets
mike_c: all i'm saying is, if you think you have an edge, whip up some IDIFF.SEP contracts.
TheNewDeal: and those people were probably just looking at pot odds
TheNewDeal: I don't have the capital to trade on mpoe
TheNewDeal: would love to, but just not my reality
mike_c: coinbr is full featured these days.
TheNewDeal: staying far from coinbr for the time being
TheNewDeal: no offense, just not my cup of tea
mike_c: why?
TheNewDeal: I trading what I own and owning what I trade
TheNewDeal: i like *
mike_c: you think coinbr is too much counterparty risk?
mike_c: ;;gettrust TheNewDeal jurov
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com. Trust relationship from user TheNewDeal to user jurov: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=TheNewDeal&dest=jurov | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=jurov | Rated since: Fri Jan 20 18:16:32 2012
TheNewDeal: I have no problems with jurov
mike_c: i'm not trying to bust balls, i'm honestly curious.
TheNewDeal: let me throw out a hypothetical here
TheNewDeal: let's say I am comfortable investing 10 BTC through coinbr ( I'm not)
TheNewDeal: to me, a healthy return over one year (in BTC) would be 10%
TheNewDeal: that makes 11 BTC
TheNewDeal: subtract account management fees, and thats 10.76
mike_c: ok, i'm with you
TheNewDeal: with NO withdrawls, that has just taken 1/4 of my profits over a year
mike_c: ok. so point #1, you think it's too expensive. but why wouldn't you be comfortable putting in 10 btc?
TheNewDeal: that's over 1/2 of my ownership
TheNewDeal: not an early adopter
mike_c: but you would be comfortable putting that much on bitbet?
TheNewDeal: most definitely
TheNewDeal: for instance
TheNewDeal: if I put down 10 BTC on this bet http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/
assbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD :: 75 B (15%) on Yes, 415.18 B (85%) on No | closing in 5 months 22 hours | weight: 42`696 (100`000 to 1)
TheNewDeal: the return is sitting at ~9% over a 5 month period
TheNewDeal: and it's a hedge
mike_c: interesting. jurov, you need more WoT :)
TheNewDeal: it has nothing to do with trust
mike_c: well, it does if you're comfortable putting 10 btc in bitbet and not coinbr
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9528 @ 0.00080251 = 7.6463 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: coinbr is restricted to MPOE stocks, and I'm very unfamiliar with them compared to those who trade
TheNewDeal: on bitbet, I can pick and choose what I feel comfortable with
mike_c: ok. lemme ask this then. if you thought you could get a 20% return on coinbr in a year, would you invest 10 btc?
TheNewDeal: perhaps less
TheNewDeal: what I would really like to do is start off with 2 or so BTC until I feel comfortable with it
TheNewDeal: but that would be a waste of money
mike_c: how would you feel if the monthly fee were lower and the trading fees higher?
TheNewDeal: dislike
mike_c: well.. something's gotta cost. brokers aren't free.
TheNewDeal: I would prefer that he were like a hedge fund manager, making % off your winnings
mike_c: hm. hedge fund managers get a fee too.
mike_c: besides performance fees
kakobrekla: depends.
TheNewDeal: usually is a tiny percentage of what they manage
punkman: tweaked bitbet strategy: 10 BTC for 500x 0.02 bets, net gain 3.92 BTC
TheNewDeal: punkman, have you done this successfully?
punkman: I think I will try
punkman: just testing over past bets
mike_c: except kako, who won't take any money unless he thinks he earns it (very un-hedge fund like)
kakobrekla: lol, less scammy.
TheNewDeal: the thing I also like about bitbet is that you can pick off bets that are almost for sure winners, and look for a certain return
moiety: nothing wrong with that, i'm same
mike_c: right up until you're wrong :)
moiety: how can you be wrong wanting to earn your money XD
punkman: well if this retarded strategy can do 46% I think I got some margin for error
TheNewDeal: that doesnt make sense to me
TheNewDeal: arent you just picking and choosing past bets that would make money?
TheNewDeal: you're betting on everything?
kakobrekla: 46% what ?
punkman: 10.16 BTC in, net gain 4.59 BTC
punkman: betting on no, skipping certain bets
TheNewDeal: how would you know which to skip?
mike_c: punkman: you should look into some of the theory about backtesting. like, you can't use the same data you develop your hypothesis on to test your strategy.
kakobrekla: well you can
kakobrekla: but it will be shit prolly.
mike_c: heh, yes. "can't" is a strong word.
TheNewDeal: is there a minimum for password protected bets?
mike_c: TheNewDeal: last comment from me, i'm really not trying to sell you. But that 'tiny percentage' you were talking about from hedge fund managers is usually 2%. which is the same fee as coinbr in your 10 BTC example.
TheNewDeal: 2% is more like a fee for an index fund
kakobrekla: the retarded standard is 2/20
TheNewDeal: 2% fee and 20% of profit?
kakobrekla: yes 2% mgmt fee, 20 profit allocation
kakobrekla will burn your money for free.
TheNewDeal: mike_c if you read what I said, I told you that I was NOT comfortable risking 10 BTC on coinbr/mpoe
TheNewDeal: I said something more like 2 BTC to begin with
mike_c: yup, i got that. just talking about the fees.
TheNewDeal: ;;calc .02*12/2
gribble: 0.12
punkman: mike_c, wanna make some synthetic data for testing?
TheNewDeal: punkman, are you betting both sides, or are you just picking winners :p
mike_c: punkman: you can cut up the data you have into pieces. but I really don't think there's enough for much confidence in results.
mike_c: strategy like MPIF's is really based more on a belief about how the system works rather than statistical analysis.
mike_c: but even that was better tested. hypothesis was formed before the analysis, not as a result of the analysis.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 57 @ 0.02021088 = 1.152 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15850 @ 0.00080649 = 12.7829 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: mike_c my reason against coinbr is more of opportunity cost versus harboring any malice against the site or jurov
mike_c: understood. i just see you as a good potential customer for coinbr, so I was trying to dig into why you were hesitant. i think i get it.
TheNewDeal: quiz question. If I were on coinbr, and then bought a MPOE account, what would he charge to transfer shares
mike_c: i believe withdrawal/asset transfers are the same
TheNewDeal: gotcha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 33 @ 0.01969756 = 0.65 BTC [-] {5}
TheNewDeal: okay so I'm reading jurov's writeup on x.diff
TheNewDeal: I never knew about the collateral cap on payout
ThickAsThieves: a couple times a year jurov and i give mp a hard time about x.diff design
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 70 @ 0.06499999 = 4.55 BTC [+] {2}
TheNewDeal: I'm really confused tho
TheNewDeal: where's the money to be made for those that mkfut ?
ThickAsThieves: fwiw, if that TSLA bitbet gets approved, i'll play
TheNewDeal: which side will you bet :D
ThickAsThieves: i'd need to chart it more
ThickAsThieves: i'd say yes probly
[]bot: Bet created: "Contador wins Tour De France" http://bitbet.us/bet/952/
TheNewDeal: Dec 14 option for $250 is selling for a premium of 18$
ThickAsThieves: i have a top around there though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 50 @ 0.0185 = 0.925 BTC [+]
decimation: "mircea_popescu: well, for one if you fly high enough you don't actually have to report" << it's my understanding that you must file with IFR, which is generally high flight. Flying low in clear air (VFR) would be the ticket.
decimation: but even then, "they" are tracking you: http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works
assbot: How it works - Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker!
decimation: MLAT In some regions with coverage from several FR24-receivers we also calculate positions of aircraft with the help of Multilateration (MLAT), by using a method known as Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA). ... That means that MLAT coverage can only be achieved above about 10000 feet as the probability that signal can be received by four or more receivers increases with increased altitude.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.065 = 0.91 BTC [+] {3}
[]bot: Bet created: "True Detective to win Drama Emmy" http://bitbet.us/bet/953/
decimation: except... " Blocking For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is limited or blocked." I wonder how you get into their wot?
TheNewDeal: if all flights were tracked so damn well at least I would have to wake up to another fucking Flight 379 update
decimation: you mean 370?
decimation: well, the data these guys use comes from "volunteers" who operate receivers attached to internet connection
decimation: not many of them in turd world countries or the ocean...
TheNewDeal: I will happily trade my constant position location as long as I don't have to have another one of those updates. Do you hear me Big Brother? You've finally won
TheNewDeal: just quit the tortute already
decimation: if you really want to move about mostly unbothered, I suggest a submarine. Or walk.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3717 @ 0.00080481 = 2.9915 BTC [-]
assbot: 2010 Austin suicide attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TheNewDeal: holy shit! only two people died?
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin VC investments over $300 million in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/954/
decimation: "Introduced by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Section 1706 added a subsection (d) to Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978, which removed "safe harbor" exception for independent contractor classification (which at the time avoided payroll taxes) for workers such as engineers, designers, drafters, computer professionals, and "similarly skilled" workers."
decimation: Congress took away the presumption that engineers can work as independent contractors, thus reducing their ability to be self employed.
assbot: Real Estate Agent Special Classification Rules For Independent Contractor Status | Nolo.com
decimation: they are automatically considered to be independent contractors even when employed and given a salary.
[]bot: Bet created: "Tesla stock to close at over $250 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/955/
TheNewDeal: here it is punkman, begin your hypothesis test on a fresh bet
decimation: now, why do you suppose those who work in the bezzle economy are showered with special favors while those who work in the "real economy" are treated as serfs?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27638 @ 0.00080803 = 22.3323 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 27 @ 0.06799962 = 1.836 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: PRECIOUS-Gold surges 3 pct in 'frantic' short covering after Fed| Reuters
decimation: presumably this is also good news for those long bitcoin
decimation: asciilifeform - I was spec'ing some Intel chips today, and realized that their marketing strategy (for all segments) relies on maximally obfuscating the functionality of their products
TheNewDeal: hahahah
TheNewDeal: and somehow they continue to make a profit...
decimation: well, a large chunk of "computer" "purchasers" have no idea what the hell they are buying, so I can see why they would do it
decimation: it's hard to convince even the dumbest of the masses to pay more for less ... unless they don't know they are buying
TheNewDeal: I would assume corportations buy more computers than people though
TheNewDeal: doesn't necessarily negate your point, but
decimation: a big chunk of corporate 'buyers' would really be happy with a slightly updated wang word processor
decimation: I use the scare quotes for "buyer" because I'm not sure the word applies to someone giving money to someone in exchange for something they don't understand
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.068 = 0.952 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: you're taking most of the buyers out of the world economy with that statement
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00080678 = 24.2034 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: indeed.
assbot: Google unveils independent fork of OpenSSL called BoringSSL | Ars Technica
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00080481 = 1.9315 BTC [-]
mike_c: dig @54.197.241.190 seeds.therealaltcoin.org
mike_c: ^ altcoin-seeder seems to be working
mike_c: so ThickAsThieves, if you put a nameserver record in your DNS (NS, not an A record) pointing seeds.therealaltcoin.org at the above IP address, we should have seeding.
mike_c: source code will have to be updated too obv, to add seeds.therealtco.org to the inital seed list.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 54 @ 0.01858999 = 1.0039 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11888 @ 0.00080424 = 9.5608 BTC [-] {3}
TheNewDeal: what happens to collateral when one sells an xdiff?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.0008095 = 19.0637 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: just wanna say before it go, mthreats search === awesome
decimation: are you going to make the logs searchable with his software?
mthreat: yep
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3750 @ 0.00080996 = 3.0374 BTC [+]
decimation: mthreat your highest google result is the bbs interview - I like your model M keyboard in the background
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00080999 = 5.3054 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.068 = 1.36 BTC [+]
mthreat: decimation: ya that loud ass keyboard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5350 @ 0.00080353 = 4.2989 BTC [-]
mthreat: !up napedia
mthreat: !up napedia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8234 @ 0.00080353 = 6.6163 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.06829404 = 1.161 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00080651 = 18.3884 BTC [+] {2}
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