Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-01-10 | 2018-01-12 → ↓
mod6: looks like mktemp will do the trick
mod6: all the changes needed to replace the current method of creating the ~/.gnupgtmp dir are these: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8tGhm/?raw=true
mod6: experimental ! ^
mod6: all of the automated tests passed, so that's a good sign
mod6: thoughts, comments welcome
mod6: (also, yes, the get_homedir sub can be trimmed)
lobbes: Achtung, archive enthusiasts! Over 80K archived and zipped URLs are now searchable via this php-tron: http://lobbesblog.com/queryarchive/view.php?searchterm=qntra.net&sortby=date_desc
lobbes: Top three things I need to do next: 1) set up automated updating of the reporting database the thing sits on (currently 'stale' data). 2) set up lobbesbot to similarly search via IRC commands 3) Zip distribution system!
lobbes: further out on list: 4) allow bulk submission of links via link to a plaintext list 5) ability to search the -content- of the zips for a phrase (thanks to mats for the suggestion)
mod6: hey neato!
ben_vulpes: 5 sounds v. cool
trinque: bravo lobbes !
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2018/01/11/the-kinds-of-comments-other-blog-commenters-have-for-intro-to-bitcoin-articles-in-2018/ << Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The kinds of comments other blog commenters have for Intro-to-Bitcoin articles in 2018.
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 13801.0, vol: 19495.15566039 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 13801.0, vol: 72054.84320398 | Volume-weighted last average: 13801.0
shinohai: ^ Unlike teh gribble maintainer, I removed the btc-e price
shinohai: lobbes: Your Qntra thing was a very nice thing to wake up to this morning.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768419 << All reg'd now the accounts are filing bank account papers. Datacenter rep did indeed disclose lack of care where wire transfers come from so long as paid
a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 15:51 mircea_popescu: o hey, so corp all reg'd and everything ? nice.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 16:35 mircea_popescu: anyone recall those ancient lulz ?
danielpbarron: !~later tell trinque ok i finally got around to looking at this cuntoo thing. machine can't load the kernel. when i chroot to try to rebuild it, i can't even mount /dev points or df -h
jhvh1: danielpbarron: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf seal from http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2026&cpage=1#comment-18614 , ty
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/01/11/unsanitarily-close-tres-generaciones-una-cita/ << Bingo Blog - Unsanitarily Close Tres Generaciones, Una Cita
shinohai: It !!ups itself
phf: or else it gets the hoes again
asciilifeform: ohai phf
asciilifeform: here's an interesting find for phf : turns out that snap-on-cable rf chokes do wonder for 'model f' kbd 'ghost keystroke' problem
asciilifeform: even after painting the inside of the plastic top of mine with conductive pait, i still occasionally got this headache. now seems to be gone. ( cable was antenna... )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'warning to head' ?
phf: that's hilarious, ty
asciilifeform: phf: get the kind that can fit 3-4 turns of whatever usb cord you used.
phf: you know if the problem is there in the original design also?
asciilifeform: and put 1 on each end.
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/11/eucrypt-chapter-5-c-m-e-mod-n/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 5: C = M ^ e mod n
asciilifeform: afaik was not in original design. i think herr cornall's replacement board design was not quite 'pro' quality, tbh
asciilifeform: but i dun have a better one myself, either
phf: sekoore keyboard design!! leaks so much data it catches its own transmission
asciilifeform: phf: ftr i think the 'matrix' design is ridiculous. esp in a device that cost what a harley cost at the time.
asciilifeform: really oughta have been '1 key, 1 wire, 1 chip pin'
phf: hmm, they gave up on 1 key 1 wire long before though. those pdp keyboards, dec? was space cadet it?
asciilifeform: nope, matrix
asciilifeform: all of them
asciilifeform: every known kbd .
asciilifeform: at least every single one i've ever seen a photo of the inside of.
asciilifeform: ( the ones that used soldered wires instead of pcb -- still matrix. )
asciilifeform: phf: i even suspect that it is possible to improve the cornall design with... randomized scan. i suspect that the sequential scan, sets up resonances.
asciilifeform: http://downloads.cornall.co/ibm-capsense-usb-web/ibm-capsense-usb.html << subj; for folx reading the thread and thinking 'wtf'
mod6: mornin
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
mod6 tips hat to asciilifeform
phf: i have a second model f that i was promissing someone to make operational, i'll play around with that one
asciilifeform: phf: exclusing items on wheels , i dun think i've ever owned a mechanical device that was as much of a bitch to reassemble , as the 'f'
asciilifeform: *excluding
asciilifeform: i ended up buying a full set of carpenter's clamps, and keeping'em around just for it..
asciilifeform: ( and if you make a mistake -- ALL of the flappers fall out: all 122 of'em... )
phf: ne imela baba problem, kupila porosya..
asciilifeform: the flip side of the medal , is that once the thing is assembled, that's it, for another three decades
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty
phf: my grandfather (and his generation) spent their leisure time working on cars (also billiard and preferance). i can't help but think that working on keyboards is a bit of a step down :o
asciilifeform: errything's a step down.
asciilifeform: next generation will spend time working on shoes. ( if cardboard duct taped to foot can be called 'shoe' )
phf: heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1"
asciilifeform: aaha exactly
shinohai: Oh good morning mod6 .... gonna try the changes out later this afternoon, will report back
mod6: shinohai: ah, alright, i'll probably have a full patch for people to look at here later today.
mod6: experimental, ofc.
shinohai: I don't expect drastically different results than from first pass, but never hurts to poke these things with a stick some.
BingoBoingo: <phf> heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1" << Old leather always is something you can't get off the shelf
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that decent shoes are somehow illegal in usa. they are ~entirely unavailable in any shop i've ever walked into there.
asciilifeform: prolly banned, like decent milk ( see 'uht' thread )
BingoBoingo: Closest thing I could find before leaving were workboots
asciilifeform: in timisoara, 'boot valhalla', walk into ~any shop and for 1.5x of what 1 pair of typical chinese liquishit costs in shitland, you get italian boots , with actual leather, insulation , proper sole, etc
asciilifeform: for coupla hundy you could prolly get a tailored set . ( asciilifeform did not stay longenuff to investigate )
BingoBoingo simply went to Rural King, got pair of Redwings off the shelf. Traded ~$200 and began ritual break in process
BingoBoingo: Here the trend seems to be Nike plastic de China for the youth and imitation real shoes for the adults, with substantial amounts of flip flops mixed in
asciilifeform: sounds like usa
BingoBoingo: Well, the adult shoes contain leather
BingoBoingo: Likely Industria Argentina sorta deal
asciilifeform sometimes sees photos of africans, straw ebola huts in background, wearing 'nike', tshirts, etc. and wonders if typical ameritard viewer sees 'ooh hey they get Real Clothing, Like Us' rather than 'hmm why am i dressed like ebola african'
phf: actually texans make those cowboy boots, i've been gifted two pairs at different times, and they are incredibly comfortable. but of course they are not ideal on pavement, and it's also stylistically a bold move on the east coast
asciilifeform: these would've been ideal for the 100km of bucharest walk
asciilifeform: they dunbelieve in sidewalks there ( repurposed as orcish parkinglot , as in many post-su lands ) and after coupla days of walking on rubble in 'civilized' shoes , feet resemble chinese bamboo punishment victim's
BingoBoingo: Ah, the uruguayan sidewalks are intentionally textured like rubble!
asciilifeform: for massage, lel
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: boots that can take ~removable~ (check into baggage when going by airplane) iron plates would be spiffy imho
BingoBoingo: Eh, ablation is kinda what the sole is there for
phf: asciilifeform: sigs updated
phf: diana_coman: ch5 on btcbase
diana_coman: thanks phf !
diana_coman: mats I'll have a look although s.mg won't use latest vulnerabilities as it were
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769016 <- ahahaha, I walked those sidewalks for years and in high heels too; it's a skill! (leather shoes though, always, proper Romanian shoes)
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:03 asciilifeform: they dunbelieve in sidewalks there ( repurposed as orcish parkinglot , as in many post-su lands ) and after coupla days of walking on rubble in 'civilized' shoes , feet resemble chinese bamboo punishment victim's
phf: s.mg is actually using pre-interface-changes blender from 20 years ago
diana_coman: phf, quite; Blender 2.66 for the record; the stopping point though was basically latest working with acceptable version of Python
diana_coman: as per http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-11-28.log.html#t14:51:45 + adventures with exporting from it, we ended up freezing blender version at 2.66 and - as usual by now - hosting it too ( minigame.bz/eulora/source/blender-2.66.tar.gz )
lobbesbot: Logged on 2016-11-28 14:51:45: <diana_coman> basically whatever blender version is the last to work on python 2.x
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768950 << can't load your own custom kernel eh? anyhow I'd need the barf to help you, picture of screen even. as for mounting dev in the chroot, you must "mount -obind /dev /path/to/build/dev"
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 14:41 danielpbarron: !~later tell trinque ok i finally got around to looking at this cuntoo thing. machine can't load the kernel. when i chroot to try to rebuild it, i can't even mount /dev points or df -h
trinque: need to do this for sys and proc as well.
phf: diana_coman: yeah, i remember the python 2/3 rants in logs here too. i take it s.mg at this point mails CDs of prefab player AND developer environments
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764242 << do I understand correctly that there's nowhere to store the result, as there seems to be enough hw adders in an 'ice'?also, it seems that the same authors are trying to reverse some xilinx nao: https://symbiflow.github.io/
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )
mircea_popescu: diana_coman this time, it pinged. heck knows.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, at some point there will be time to get to the bottom of that too
mircea_popescu: or someone actually picks up mp-wp already.
mircea_popescu: it's been looking for a maintainer for what, 2 yrs.
shinohai: Heh I can connect to Eulora again
diana_coman: plenty of things for the pick up really
diana_coman: shinohai, what was the trouble?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768945 << "all x except not x.y" bejaysus. how long until you have it all up then ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 13:46 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-10#1768419 << All reg'd now the accounts are filing bank account papers. Datacenter rep did indeed disclose lack of care where wire transfers come from so long as paid
shinohai: diana_coman: kept kicking me offline
diana_coman: sounds like connection trouble
danielpbarron: trinque, oh lol ur right sorry
danielpbarron: been a while since i did that
danielpbarron hangs head in shame
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769036 << this is correct, it simply doesn't have enough LUTs to store even the 2 operands, not even speaking of result. however xilinx is a dead end : because it is 1) nonhomogeneous 2) they switch the internals regularly, specifically to prevent a reversing from being useful in the long term. see old xilinx threads in the logs for detail
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:49 apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764242 << do I understand correctly that there's nowhere to store the result, as there seems to be enough hw adders in an 'ice'?also, it seems that the same authors are trying to reverse some xilinx nao: https://symbiflow.github.io/
apeloyee: and you think internals of 'ice' won't be switched?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 19:58 asciilifeform: large xilinx chips also have 'hard' periphs inside, e.g. multers, adders, shifters, various
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:02 asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: the larger chips by lattice co are already xilinx-like
asciilifeform: the smaller ones are 'sea of gates' as they are intended to be used for glue logic, and emphasize predictable path timing ( the analogous xilinx series is the 95xx , as used in FUCKGOATS )
apeloyee: i'm speaking of reversed ones only
asciilifeform: so yes, the only reason why anybody sells ice and 95xx -like 'sea of gates' at all, is that for 'glue' (simple boolean functions of signals, for e.g. bus decoding, addressing, simple i/o multiplexing) is that you can't actually do it reliably with the non-seaofgates devices
asciilifeform: they would have long ago phased out the sane (sea of gates) devices , otherwise.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well acordding to Uruguay it's a business. How long until there's a bank account is a mystery. Moving discussions ahead with the datacenter with the understanding that if a local bank account isn ready in time, there will be some way to pay them.
apeloyee: what's to stop Lattice from yanking the reversed ice and introducing similar-but-incompatible per the playbook?
asciilifeform: it is sorta how like american hardware store would love to sell plastic pipe wrenches. but you can't actually work with those, so they don't.
mircea_popescu: they sell plastic guns...
asciilifeform: apeloyee: nothing per se. but the 'fiddled' chip is likely to be reversable with same methods, on account of being homogeneous
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so what's the plan here, drop upon the dc with brown paper bag fulla cash ?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: they could in principle try intel-style fascism with built-in rsa sig verifier or the like. but afaik the only vendor to date to attempt any such thing, was xilinx, and it wasn't even in earnest
phf: aaye, boss wantsa one of them servers, brought you eggheads some mulah
asciilifeform: apeloyee: the most immediate risk is that 'ice' series simply goes out of print. like anything else.
apeloyee: that's what I spoke about
asciilifeform: the only cure for this is to fab own fpga.
apeloyee: but you say everybody needs something ice-like?
asciilifeform: it's the 1 product currently sold, that's worth buying.
asciilifeform: even if you need three dozen of'em to fit , e.g., vga controller.
asciilifeform: and it's the 1 fpga currently sold that's worth copying ( scaled-up, naturally )
apeloyee: it's the 1 product currently sold, that's worth buying. << and the xilinx item in 'fuckgoats'?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That or "Hey pete, wanna send a wire for some BTC"
mircea_popescu: whole point is to have your own stream.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
mircea_popescu: "registered company, no bank accounts" ~= "rented house, no running water"
asciilifeform: there are not many items, even conceptually, that can be audited this way
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
asciilifeform: it is also unusual in that it accepts no input from the computer
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 13730.52, vol: 18642.79134567 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 13822.0, vol: 65812.8828485 | Volume-weighted last average: 13801.8066552
asciilifeform: and thereby has no attack surface in the traditional sense
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: And thus my increasing annoyance with the locals. They aren't ustards, but their slow speed to anything is grating.
asciilifeform: i still dislike having to use toolchain from hitler to compile the bitstream. and thereby the current fg is the last time i use a xilinx in a product.
mircea_popescu: so far sounds a lot like classical scam, "sure, can do 90% of useful item BUT NO MORE in steady 10% increments you can pay for".
mircea_popescu: wtf did that accountant or w/e do, "oh, i can find you a house mr bb, it just won't have any walls..." ?
mircea_popescu: shoulda said so from day 1.
apeloyee: but strictly speaking, if you just want mod-exp you don't need "an adder". you need operations "add X", doble and "subtract modulus"
mircea_popescu: "yes i can FIFTYQUOTESregistger a corpFIFTYQUOTES but it will not be a corp and hello"
apeloyee: *double the result"
asciilifeform: apeloyee: 'add X' needs an adder.
asciilifeform: as does 'sub X'
BingoBoingo: Apparently they waited until after the business registration went through Friday to apply for bank accounts.
mircea_popescu: but today is thurs!
apeloyee: it has adder. problem is storage, no?
mircea_popescu: what happened to "but i must warn you mr bb, "applying for bank accounts:" is a thing, bank doesn't open acct ON THE SPOT, takes 8 years"
mircea_popescu: fucking soviets.
apeloyee: can you use one 'ice' to generate a bitstream for another one?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: adder is just a series of xor's. but yes you need shift registers to hold the operands, and one to hold the result ( which then can be shifted )
asciilifeform: apeloyee: they have very slow-writing storage for the bitstream (nand flash, with ~10k cycle endurance) so definitely not practical
BingoBoingo: Apparently takes weeks. Anecdote from datacenter folk suggests 2-3 months of bandaids not uncommon.
mircea_popescu: why wasn't this in there dec 15th ? pshaw.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: afaik nobody ever sold a 'sea of gates' fpga/cpld with sram bitstream storage.
asciilifeform: ( if it existed -- yes, you could 'page it in' )
apeloyee: the 'ice' is one such
asciilifeform: nope, nandflash
asciilifeform: unless there's a seekrit catalogue i dun have
asciilifeform: or hm not so
asciilifeform: the 8k takes external spi config
asciilifeform: it does take nearly whole second tho, to load
asciilifeform: but in principle apeloyee is right, one could make a 'page swapped' tile of 'ice's.
asciilifeform: possibly even use it perversely to perform certain computations quickly.
asciilifeform: (i.e. you don't need a universal shift register, can make 'constant' value using a just-in-time-cooked bitstream loaded in for that particular occasion)
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769049 << nah lets get it going on your hardware too. idea is we get kernels in there for usable hardware.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:54 danielpbarron: trinque, oh lol ur right sorry
trinque: I'll be out for a while today, back in the evening
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768972 << no way, what, 800 wires ? on time tech it'd have been a foot thick that cable.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:27 phf: hmm, they gave up on 1 key 1 wire long before though. those pdp keyboards, dec? was space cadet it?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you know how many tracks in typical pc mobo ?
asciilifeform: ( a lot more than 800 )
mircea_popescu: you mean, wire as in kbd pcb or as in antenna ?
asciilifeform: 'wire' dun have to mean, typically, physical wire with circular cross section
asciilifeform: wire as in conductor.
mircea_popescu gives up, minor point anyway.
phf: well, it's 800 to the controller, not, like, straight to machine
asciilifeform: and also yes
mircea_popescu: phf seems your cable being unchanged the samne problem may even recur!
BingoBoingo: The datacenter folks released these anecdotes yesterday. The extent of the sovietitude here beyond "Latinos burn 10 days on fireworks" is something I was not anticipating.
asciilifeform: orig observation was re 'no reason why not 122 tracks inside kbd, going to a cpld'
mircea_popescu 's money is on "packeted format!!!!" as solution to this lel
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i designed once ( but never built ) a kbd where each key sits on a 2wire bus, and has time slot
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well so what do we do ? because so far this is starting to look like complete writeoff.
apeloyee: egyptian mul doesn't need a barrel shifter
asciilifeform: it'd work. and would also let you rearrange the keys
asciilifeform: apeloyee: indeed it doesn't
asciilifeform: apeloyee: karatsubaization doesn't need one either
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo eg, have you "applied" to every single bank in town, making it plain to them that UNLESS they get it done by next week they will probably lose out on the business AND that it is to your superior white man eye inconceivable as well as a shocking break from human community that they take so very long,. and shoulds really be very ashamed of self, much like waiter who takes a piss in your wine ?
asciilifeform: apeloyee: i've thought about 'what is minimal circuit for rsa'. i.e. ideally would eat x,y,m , of b bitness, and shit forth x^y mod m after ~b^3 clock cycles.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: could potentially build out of discretes.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll press the accountant on the bank applying strategy, and approach banks on my own until the list is exhausted.
apeloyee: karatsuba's saves area only, not time
asciilifeform: apeloyee: eh what
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo whole idea is you reg your co with whatever inept fiatola site (bitstamp, whatever) and move into cash that way.
asciilifeform: apeloyee: saves time. i.e. isn't o(n^3), elementarily
apeloyee: not if you have a 4096b hw multer
apeloyee: and no point in designing a hw multer implementing karastuba, unless saving on Si area
asciilifeform: this is an open q
apeloyee: hm yes, for really large multers it might be
apeloyee: when wire delay is comparable to component delay
apeloyee: 'what is minimal circuit for rsa' << probably ripple-carry adder + a few registers
apeloyee: sloooow
apeloyee: likely kochanski's multiplier is the next simplest thing
asciilifeform: apeloyee: unusable for fixedspacetimeism
asciilifeform: it has timesaving-heuristics that use the highbits
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768978 << well it'll make much less obvious resonances so that's a win :D
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:28 asciilifeform: phf: i even suspect that it is possible to improve the cornall design with... randomized scan. i suspect that the sequential scan, sets up resonances.
asciilifeform: we went over kochanski here, in august
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768992 << model m more complex than 1960s trabant!
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:42 phf: my grandfather (and his generation) spent their leisure time working on cars (also billiard and preferance). i can't help but think that working on keyboards is a bit of a step down :o
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: almost definitionally, if yer rng is any good, it won't be pumping any resonance anywhere
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'f' not 'm'
asciilifeform: ( visually similar, but mechanically very different beasts )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitionally, if your rng is any good, it will type out shakespeare every so often.
mircea_popescu: rng is not a resonance magic pill, just a resonance de-debugable-izers.
asciilifeform: dead of asteroid first.
asciilifeform: but yes it goes back to the eternal 'what is random' thread
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1768995 << try buy yourself silk dress shirts, see.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:44 phf: heh "1992 vintage italian shoe. the sole i head to replace out of hand carved wood, but leather is literally like nothing you can get anymore!!1"
asciilifeform: point is not that resonance is physically impossible, but that enemy cannot win by ever betting on a particular one
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought point was "ghost keystroke".
asciilifeform: side-thread of side-thread lol
shinohai: "Confused Trump Tricked by Fox News Into Opposing His Own Surveillance Bill" <<< kek
asciilifeform: 'Women coin will become the ultimate business coin for women. We all know that this altcoin market is mainly operated by men, just like the entire world. We want to stop this. From this moment on everyone should keep in mind that we women are as important as men. This is why Women coin project has been formed. ... We want to bring the female standard of importance under the attention with every WOMEN coin trade. Also we want to get w
asciilifeform: eb services on-board to accept WOMEN COIN is one of their official payment methods.'
asciilifeform: ^ complete with win .exe 'wallet' , a la yesterday's archaeological thread
mircea_popescu: business coin for women ?
knubie: lol
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, there's a "bank for women" thing here, called "crystal"
mircea_popescu: i find it apt it'd be the definitive stripper's name, but really now, a bank FOR WOMEN ?
asciilifeform: what's the angle?
knubie: lmao
shinohai: bwahahaha asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: woman is not a profession. bank "for agricultors" makes sense because4 they get leasing deals with the machinery producers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform angle ? what angle. these are simpleminded people, not up to angles yet. those are the WORDS.
shinohai: Now we need "Pantsuit coin"
mircea_popescu: dollar ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes cuz teh women are too fat / lazy to do it anymoar amirite.
ben_vulpes: you'd think but the poor girls dance just like they always did
mircea_popescu: in other lifestyle & bed, bath -- zee germanz opened a deli here, finally smoked ribs and shit.
ben_vulpes: brb screaming from upstairs
ben_vulpes: back, just a lamp
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 15:55 asciilifeform: for coupla hundy you could prolly get a tailored set . ( asciilifeform did not stay longenuff to investigate )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's , what, a day of train away, neh
shinohai: That's some 1984-level stripper shit there ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: can't dance well unless you've stared starvation in the eyes in the past three years apparently
asciilifeform: apeloyee ^
asciilifeform: and incidentally, all you want for padding is a n-bit-to-n-bit hash; and if rsa itself is strong, than simple modexp ( or , if you like, two, 1 the normal way, and then 1 of the output bits, reversed ) is a satisfactory hash for paddings.
asciilifeform: ( in fact, if we had a decent prime-constructor, 'cut it in half and multiply the 2 large primes you get , 1 from each half' would be a decent hash for such use )
mircea_popescu: padding is the ~one item where we actually don't need a fix.
asciilifeform: i dunlikeit
asciilifeform: it's hashtronic
asciilifeform: hashes -- suck.
mircea_popescu: it's the one item proved to be strong.
asciilifeform: as strong ~as the hash~
asciilifeform: and no stronger.
mircea_popescu: yes. the one item proved to be strong.
asciilifeform: nope. no hash has ever been proven to be anything whatsoever.
asciilifeform: they are exactly same item as symmciphers.
mircea_popescu: "this compuer is proven correct" "only as correct as the inputs" "stfu"
asciilifeform: an oaep (or similar scheme) ciphertron rests on 2 elephants : strength of rsa, and strength of the (voodoo) hash.
asciilifeform: theoretically could make one that only stands on 1, rsa.
mircea_popescu: the scheme ~itself~ is ~proven~ to be strong. which is way the fuck more than can be said of the "decent" or "satisfactory" in above.
asciilifeform: nope. again, as strong as the hash. hash falls -- it falls.
mircea_popescu: this is misery.
mircea_popescu: !!key Covale`
deedbot: Not registered.
asciilifeform: whereas one ~could~ build one where rsa per se must fall, for it to fall.
asciilifeform: ( hashes, observe, have lived and died, rsa -- even paint never chipped. )
mircea_popescu: dja understand the difference between "proven strong" and "decent" "satisfactory" etc other offthecuffness ?
asciilifeform: aha, and very well
mircea_popescu: ok then.
asciilifeform: they proof postulates the strength of the hash.
mircea_popescu: every proof will postulate something ; this is not a cogent objection.
mircea_popescu: unless you have proof that no such thing as a hash can be made, it's more useful than "this seems obfuscaxy to me!"
asciilifeform: it is if i can remove one of the unfounded postulates and still have working item.
mircea_popescu: by all means.
asciilifeform: that was all, re subj.
asciilifeform: ( and it's an open q. )
mircea_popescu: entirely true that if one builds a hash which can be provenly as strong as rsa, then thathash powered oaep would be the natural padding for rsa
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu gets it.
mircea_popescu: and for the record : prime generation (as in trpng) is not THAT expensive these days.
asciilifeform: and, will point out, is built into (adult) 'p'.
asciilifeform: as a primitive.
asciilifeform: so naturally invites the q of 'why not a trapdoor based on multiplication of primes'.
asciilifeform: for what do we need the heathentronic liquishit-mix trapdoor algos.
mircea_popescu: now this much is quote cogent.
asciilifeform: and more , even :
asciilifeform: the objection last time we had this thread ( iirc by mircea_popescu ) was the pain of doing this with large inputs
asciilifeform: but you can in fact merkleize'em, and get 'sponge' construction
asciilifeform: while still using makeprime(bits(0..n/2))*makeprime(bits(n/2+1..n)) as 'hasher'.
mircea_popescu: merlke sponge large prime hash would be interesting
asciilifeform: and , beauty is, can be scaled up to fit cpu budget
asciilifeform: ( larger primes, if more cycles available in particular application; smaller, with moar merkelization, if fewer )
asciilifeform: so thereby you nao have the sponge.
asciilifeform: nao only somebody gotta prove that it dun leak structure... ( or if it does -- just how much )
shinohai: !!up Covale`
deedbot: Covale` voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: F70A0DFC4CD596332D3155F55FE693A3DD8BBEAE registered as Covale`.
asciilifeform: ^ this item is part of asciilifeform's larger thrust, to expunge every remaining vestige of the ( muchly nsa-pushed , for 60+ yrs nao ) 'rotorism' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686308 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-29#1147450 , elsewhere ) from sane crypto.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 23:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, ALL, without exception, blockcipher and streamcipher, published to date, are ~enigma
a111: Logged on 2015-05-29 03:48 asciilifeform: a great many ciphertrons sold by nato cocksucker nations (western europe) were actually electronicized versions of 'enigma'-style rotors
Covale`: thanks shinohai
asciilifeform: 'hey hey, ho ho,' rotorism 'has got to go'
shinohai: np, if you need any help with registration feel free to message
mircea_popescu: !!key Covale`
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform inb4 bruce kreibs "releases" a "new generation" etc blabla.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me, asciilifeform's brother not long ago said to asciilifeform re ffaseries, 'think, how many chinese phd theses you've written'
mircea_popescu: brother is right.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bonus lul: you can trivially turn 'primehash' (let's for nao call it..) into a symmcipher ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621207 ) .
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 18:13 asciilifeform: they are sides of the same triangle.
asciilifeform: but this was probably already obvious.
apeloyee: it has timesaving-heuristics that use the highbits << I thought it was to choose what to add? can't prove right now, though
asciilifeform: apeloyee: kochanski's method ( at least as described on his www ) very definitely took variant times.
asciilifeform: there may be ~something~ salvageable in it, but i was not able to see what exactly.
phf: i like how who was it ptacek who "grabbed popcorn" at the mention of "all existing crypto suffers from...", but since them no comment.
asciilifeform: phf: d00d is paid for simple job. he did the job, moved on to next item on conveyor
asciilifeform: i dun expect he even made it to the bottom of ch1
phf: fwiw i don't think he even made it to the end of the "crypto suffers from..." list
asciilifeform: prollynot.
mircea_popescu: recall when gmaxwell said "oh, i showed $item to "everyone in pr team" and the median time to break it was $minutes" and provided no further details ?
mircea_popescu: it's hard to believe they even trhink at all, just type what's on the paper slip, move on.
mircea_popescu: whole thing's based on the idea that no past, no future, never will have to answer for anything etc.
asciilifeform: could, and for all i know this is already in place, replace ptacek et al with eliza.
mircea_popescu: consequently taking something uttered by usg asset as words rather than "o look what kitten did with its own faeces!" is a little weird.
asciilifeform: ~none of their behaviour rises to the complexity of, whatever, cat, dog, rat. perl script.
mircea_popescu: anyway, item in question struck me because exactly bock.
asciilifeform: nah bock's flavour is more of a 'i did this in 2010 and no i won't show it but hey i did it in 2010 and ...'
mircea_popescu: nah, recall original bockism on whichever social media site "this is not right because here's a statistical survey of an inexistent field"
mircea_popescu: and i can't quite shake the impression that someone over at pantsuit hq actually imagines they "won" teh global warming lulz.
asciilifeform: hm yea there was one of these wasntthere.
mircea_popescu: first salvo.
apeloyee: Meanwhile, one ardent quantum computerist, one John Preskill made a 'keynote speech' or whatnot https://arxiv.org/pdf/1801.00862.pdf "Even with fault-tolerant quantum computing still a rather distant dream, we are now entering a pivotal new era in quantum technology. For this talk, I needed a name to describe this impending new era, so I made up a word: NISQ . This stands for Noisy Intermediate-Sc
apeloyee: ale Quantum." Does anyone read it as desperate 'we now are entering an era of quantum computer which wouldn't be all that good even if it worked ("intermediate scale"), and it doesn't really ("noisy")' or my mircea_popescu simulator is broken?
asciilifeform: hey, the 'we dun need to win, all we gotta do is print in nyt front page that we did' can carry on right up until the turks come over the city walls
asciilifeform: apeloyee: d00d wouldn't perchance happen to work for 'dwave' co. would he ?
mircea_popescu: apeloyee o you have simulators too now ?! but yes, "we are now entering a littoral combat quantumship era, where the fiatola conduits are well in place and thoroughly divorced from results, so all you disgusting niggers listening in -- know that it's a "safe" field in the sense your "criminology" degrees are."
mircea_popescu: ie, out and out "we got a line into the oil pipe, now we need mass to swing it!" joy call of the nigger.
asciilifeform: qc i suspect will be to current-day usg as immortality pill was to chinese emperor qin shihuangdi
asciilifeform: ( and not, perhaps strangely from n00b pov, e.g. fusion power )
apeloyee: asciilifeform: if he does, then not Officially.
asciilifeform: there's a whole pseudoindustry being born , of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769090 - ing for qc
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 17:11 mircea_popescu: so far sounds a lot like classical scam, "sure, can do 90% of useful item BUT NO MORE in steady 10% increments you can pay for".
asciilifeform: ( folx who remember e.g. tokamak, will find the dynamic familiar )
asciilifeform: 'Мазать уже можно, есть пока ещё нельзя' (tm)(r) !
mircea_popescu: moreover, there's a whole population of ustards who are entirely invested in this as a lifetime choice. dood with "Degree" in nothing in particular firmly depends on the whole social security infrastructure in place being continued.
mircea_popescu: how did that tlp quote go,
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 18:10 mircea_popescu: affiliate. "Hi, this is Bill from Cleveland, and I blame liberals." Son of a bitch, why didn't I think of that. The system not only pays poor people, it employs lots and lots of almost poor people. I'm not saying this is a good thing, or a desirable thing, I am simply stating a fact. Some of these are direct government jobs (e.g. staff down at the SSI office) and some are pretend private sector jobs. If you're a psychiatrist
mircea_popescu: !!up joecool|mobile
deedbot: joecool|mobile voiced for 30 minutes.
joecool: thanks
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:00 asciilifeform sometimes sees photos of africans, straw ebola huts in background, wearing 'nike', tshirts, etc. and wonders if typical ameritard viewer sees 'ooh hey they get Real Clothing, Like Us' rather than 'hmm why am i dressed like ebola african'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769019 << fuck removable, wtf. let them deal with it!!1
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:05 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: boots that can take ~removable~ (check into baggage when going by airplane) iron plates would be spiffy imho
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769028 << this is a fact, we froze an old version.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:31 phf: s.mg is actually using pre-interface-changes blender from 20 years ago
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769035 << nah, the idea currently is that the current client gets trashed, hopefully this year, with the release of proper api for server interconnect ; and ppls write clients.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:45 phf: diana_coman: yeah, i remember the python 2/3 rants in logs here too. i take it s.mg at this point mails CDs of prefab player AND developer environments
phf: joke (?) re blender was that the original blender "consumer came to expect" was the rewrite of the NaN's idiosyncratic gui into slightly less idiosyncratic gui that current version of blender has. i think happened around 2.03
mircea_popescu: sometging like that ya
knubie: heh, something is definitely up with Kraken... not smelling good
phf: is the new api still going to support real time? i take it you basically have two types of data communicated: spreadsheet mgmt and the sword swinging. right now bulk of complexity is from trying to cary spreadsheet data over sword swinging api (which i think is basically just a giant enum of msg types that can be packed into a udp)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769057 << fwiw i had engines in my legos.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 16:58 a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:02 asciilifeform: re the archs -- lattice ice is analogous to children's toy 'lego' where you get 9,000 identical bricks; xilinx ( and altera, and the 'adult' lattice fpga on fancy dev boards ) are analogous to... i guess the 'erector' toy, where there are a certain number of fungible pieces, but also ~a~ motor, ~a~ heavy iron base, a quantity of gears, etc.
mircea_popescu: phf "real" time.
phf: so no quake2 deathmatch mode
mircea_popescu: i never cared for the twitch-style "competitions". besides, who wants can quake, no need for fantasy rpg, let him have his sf and choke on it.
mircea_popescu: (because yes -- this is the fundamental truth of computers -- rts is scifi and tbs is fantasy and fuck anyone who genderconfuses!)
phf: it's true, first rts is dune universe!
apeloyee: would 'doon' be a good replacement for "dune" books? because I recently compared Bored with the Rings with the original, an' find the original insufferable. 'hobbit' at least doesn't pretend to be any more than a fairy-tale for children.
asciilifeform liked the original, but ~as a kid~ and deliberately won't re-eat it, these things ~never survive re-opening in adulthood
mircea_popescu: ~same here.
phf: asciilifeform: i've started rereading lotr while i was sick, but i'm reading this 1992 russian edition.
asciilifeform: lol that's what i got
asciilifeform: the 1 missing vol3
asciilifeform to this very day does not own the engl original
phf: the hardcover with yellow dust juckets?
phf: ha!
asciilifeform: tho i dun think i have the jacket anymoar
phf: well, since you've not reread, i've noticed that they creatively munged the names.
phf: all the names that are "common tongue", got russian translations
asciilifeform: phf: i read the eng also as a kid, slightly laters, and did notice re the names
asciilifeform: ( sometimes wished that i hadnt reread, almost 'broke' it for me)
phf: so you have hobbit families with names like "hryuklov" "krotov" ""puziks" "bobrovniki" etc.
phf: but then (presumably since i've not read en) brandyskoks or some such is probably original english, and preserved
phf: i suspect if not for hollywood and modern esl, en version wouldn't be as revolting. really goes for a lot of writing in english
mircea_popescu recently saw "looper", a nine MILLIONTH!!! same retelling of here's whart we ustards managed to steal off the bible, whore (single mother!!!) and repentant sinner (junkie!!!) save baby jesus
mircea_popescu: so yes, the impression that the whole place just spins the same ancient, dog eared retelling of the same stolen story and therefore that everyone there is braindamaged has A LOT to do with the attempted idnustrialization of culture.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, soviet attempt to industrialize culture fared just as miserably.
asciilifeform: lol that was a memorably terrible film
phf: i think i saw it?
asciilifeform: the one where some d00d's fingers vanish 1 by 1 as he -- back in time -- is dismembered
asciilifeform: and other similars
asciilifeform: it was almost a grand tour of every known type of hollywood braindamage..
mircea_popescu: it was god awful, that dumb bitch is like "threatening vagrants" and going about that huge farm house as if mommy-usg is there to protect "her freedom of choice"
mircea_popescu: notwithdstanding that the ACTUALY, LIVED!!! experience of whores just like her in a situation just as described is exactly http://trilema.com/2016/a-novel-once-called-disgrace/
mircea_popescu: ie, "they'll use you for breeding grounds and you'll love it"
mircea_popescu: whole lotta that nonsense, "i was SO SAVED!!! by this woman!!! HER LOVE!!!!" wtf, substitute symbol for "Sat around on my couch eating my chips", really ?
asciilifeform: the 'phree choice!11' chix that'd look at home at a clitler fundraiser, transplanted somehow , undamaged, into postapocalyptic wastelands -- is almost mandatory trope these days
mircea_popescu: i so totally need to be thusly saved, really, any lazy fat slobs wanna save me ?
mircea_popescu: only one per, tho, so the whole queue gets some!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty fucking scandalous, but yes.
asciilifeform: the long and exciting adventures of the proverbial snowball in hell.
phf: yes, but what if they study martial arts
asciilifeform: partial farts.
mircea_popescu: no they don't even have to study anything, evil patriarchy will put magical blue pills in their tummy and then beat them into activation see, and then LUCY will become divine through downloading magics.
mircea_popescu: fucktards.
mircea_popescu: whole fucking pantsuit world cinema is entirely "man puts magic into woman belly and then activates it and then woman wins" wank.
mircea_popescu: you'd think everyone is away fighting the aliens or some shit, and this is what happens in the meanwhile.
phf: blame pogroms
mircea_popescu: no, i blame the stupid fucking wankers involved.
mircea_popescu: "why do any work, just wait around to be knocked up by god and then get a divorce settlement from god court" ~= "action movie" ffs.
mircea_popescu: (and by the way -- martial arts ARE FOR MEN. it dun work for women. AT ALL!)\
phf: well, it's pious tzadiks writing revenge porn on goyim, which somehow fell on fertile soil in this country.
mircea_popescu: "somehow".
phf: the woman twist is just a modern twist on american lore
phf: which is a shame, because before superman (and for a while in parallel), american lore was adequate
mircea_popescu: which is what im saying, whole shebang is inept retelling of stolen storyhalves
mircea_popescu: "oh, and then david SAVED THE DAY"
mircea_popescu: "i dunno what he saved, but i knew plenty of cockrings named david"
phf: "the name is DAHveed"
mircea_popescu: and the fact that they're all stolen from new testament cliffnotes particularly irritates me.
phf: how come?
mircea_popescu: phf suppose you live in arhangelsk oblast, and suppose all they ever serve is some derivative of supermarket food. mostly, canned tomatoes.
mircea_popescu: "oh, great day today, we found walmart surplus cans, rather than the usual polish crap"
mircea_popescu: just go fucking hunt already, srsly now
mircea_popescu: "what, you mean walk out of town ?" "WHAT FUCKING TOWN!" "but... but... it could be dangerous." "Bitch..." "think of the children!!!"
mircea_popescu: canned fucking tomatoes are not even worth eating in the first place.
phf: yes, but nobody's produced illustrated version of bible where all the womens have large, barely covered tits
mircea_popescu: if onyl.
mircea_popescu: the new trend is recycled 1990s fashion models. except a) fucking little boys is no longer fashionablr and b) what was acceptable in 1995 of 16yo "women" because 90s and gayness is not acceptable of the same women aged 40 today.
shinohai: Could this be a project for us danielpbarron ?
ben_vulpes: btcvixen back for more?
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769401 << Somewhat relatedly, this is why I've always preferred the "Batman" over other american superhero lore, at least on premise alone. Roughly the only "realistic" one of the bunch. No magic flies ingested, just a dude who leverages his large pool of financial -resources- and goes out and does vigilante shit with it.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 20:12 phf: which is a shame, because before superman (and for a while in parallel), american lore was adequate
mircea_popescu: lobbes except for the part where the way these "resources" work in his case is exactlyu contrary to the way they work in every other case.
lobbes: Oya. Hence the "premise alone". Falls apart rapidly beyond that, but I appreciate at least the attempt at "jesus/aliens ain't coming to save you; save your fucking self. Get over and embrace your fears, etc"
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: i always thought it's just "get the preppy demo" attempt of the pulp to expand.
mircea_popescu: !#s "ready with a gameplan"
mircea_popescu: !!up state_bits
deedbot: state_bits voiced for 30 minutes.
lobbes: That is a point
state_bits: Hello, been lurking trilema for a little bit. Figured I'd join the channel and learn more about tmsr and bitcoin
lobbes: state_bits you read teh logs? If not, you should!
state_bits: Yeah I'm trying to keep up with it as much as possible
state_bits: Lots of interesting conversation
phf: a scarlet pimpernel, a society man doing valiant daringdo by night
shinohai: phf is back in top form.
mircea_popescu: have you been taking snark classes along the sanskrit phf ?
lobbes: Lol
state_bits: More or less
lobbes: That fever must've given him nuclearoactive super-snark
BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu recently saw "looper", a nine MILLIONTH!!! same retelling of here's whart we ustards managed to steal off the bible, whore (single mother!!!) and repentant sinner (junkie!!!) save baby jesus << That's half of US film between 2001 and 2015
shinohai: Now he has superpowers, no spiderbite required
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sad fax.
BingoBoingo: It's this thing where the children imagine they've transcended mommy and daddy's church only to plagiarize it
asciilifeform: oh hah notbad name , state_bits
asciilifeform: bot dead ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ghehehe
shinohai: !~weather
jhvh1: stormy with a chance of packeting
asciilifeform: re earlier, 'The vulnerability described here is caused by Linux kernel behaviour change in the syscall API (returning relative pathnames in getcwd()) and non-defensive function implementation in libc (failing to process that pathname correctly). Other libraries are very likely to be affected as well. On affected systems this vulnerability can be used to gain root privileges via SUID binaries.'
shinohai: http://archive.is/xTrVe <<< "Bitcoin Conference Stops Accepting Bitcoin For Tickets, Blames ‘Network Congestion’ "
asciilifeform: '“Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes a reality.' << lol, theywontfuckingyield(tm)(r)
trinque: what congestion; pay more than what half the mempool wants to pay, what?
trinque: and this as a crude option
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 18:48 mircea_popescu: consequently taking something uttered by usg asset as words rather than "o look what kitten did with its own faeces!" is a little weird.
trinque: too true.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, another 'ohnoez, tor worx toowell!!111' piece
ben_vulpes: ipnohej but ~
ben_vulpes: serious wordsalading: "The need to protect sensitive information being sent during war times can be attributed to the development of various encryption technologies, which are now widely available to the general public."
asciilifeform: pinoyism, wat
asciilifeform: they dun speak the king's englisch, neh.
ben_vulpes: > durban, south africa
a111: Logged on 2016-07-11 12:27 mircea_popescu: "If you are white, no positive, active role is left to you. Either you accommodate yourself to the unreasonable, or you play out your life in some futile back alley. You are doomed to this by the disgraceful history of your kind. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not, but it is the way things are." << from another schmuck with a nobel prize.
asciilifeform: ( this plus mircea_popescu's za buggery series , is all i think of when i think of modern-day za )
trinque fully expects to live to hear the explanation for this cuckery reduced to "they sat down too much, oh and plastic"
phf: za?
shinohai: Zimbabwe
phf: ah
asciilifeform: zuid-afrika
asciilifeform: ( not zair either ! )
shinohai: All African shitholes blend together to me
asciilifeform: learn to tell the small gut, from the large, from the rectum..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769420 << aha, 'batman' is exactly a picture of the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-11#1048383 ameritard-fantasy
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 21:52 mircea_popescu: lobbes except for the part where the way these "resources" work in his case is exactlyu contrary to the way they work in every other case.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-11 03:53 asciilifeform: my mind is still reeling that anyone, anywhere, might have swallowed the '3000 sq. ft for two dozen people', 'grow room' the size of bedroom, idiot hollywood 'motorcycle garage' and 'gun vault', etc.
trinque: also in batman, "my parents are dead!!11!", also shows up a lot in disney garbage. interesting how art does its thing whether they producing meant to or not.
trinque: of course nobody has any ancestors here.
trinque: any personal exceptions I can offer were fresh off the boat.
asciilifeform: dunno that this one'd make it to the top of the raging idiocies list; blood feud is lowest common denominator for revenge-plot
shinohai: http://archive.is/EKwAf <<< LOL " Through their Change.org petition, they want to make BCH the default trading market on Coinbase"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769081 << are you basically saying that there's a maximum size of the black box which permits it to remain black to abritrary shaking ?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 17:09 asciilifeform: apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
knubie: goodnight guys.. =)
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 17:17 asciilifeform: but in principle apeloyee is right, one could make a 'page swapped' tile of 'ice's.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 17:18 asciilifeform: possibly even use it perversely to perform certain computations quickly.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769458 << i find these lulshits, "alien conference" held by the la comicon whores in the la comicon hangars as a very useful sugar trap. rms -- opted to go to nefario's lulference, is now fucked.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 23:07 asciilifeform: '“Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes a reality.' << lol, theywontfuckingyield(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu welcomes further clueless derps to step on the rake, by all means.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769475 << hey, the boers tried, but ultimately couldn't get the kids interested in anything other than fucking around with period equiv of iphone, gave up, went away.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 23:19 trinque fully expects to live to hear the explanation for this cuckery reduced to "they sat down too much, oh and plastic"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769488 << this is very much a function as well as result of http://trilema.com/2018/ridoinculous-taboos/ : "having never fucked toghether, my parents are culturally dead to me."
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 23:33 trinque: also in batman, "my parents are dead!!11!", also shows up a lot in disney garbage. interesting how art does its thing whether they producing meant to or not.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769493 << very basic specificity-of-diddling lemma. i.e. if i put today's trilema through it, it isn't as if it knows in advance that it ain't an analogue-rng-board plugged in, and what to shit out in response to a trilema that ain't yet been written
a111: Logged on 2018-01-12 00:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769081 << are you basically saying that there's a maximum size of the black box which permits it to remain black to abritrary shaking ?
mircea_popescu: but if it shat out sha(input + salt) you wouldn't know.
mircea_popescu: shall we do this experiment ?
asciilifeform: i know exactly what's expected to come out for a given input
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the yoke test consists of precisely this experiment
asciilifeform: i invite mircea_popescu to do it with 2 of his fg
mircea_popescu: alright, i will now proceed to "rng" your lines. starting with above : 21ec922676d4145fbcbc4e1d05436e31ffc45b0b6b30c38f3397840a2111282640ab321b906a9d911af757a3a6b550e8fc9aaffc9089a1ca881d980f60617c9b
asciilifeform: you gotta feed it in at the requisite clock.
asciilifeform doesn't currently have the rig for this set up on desk
mircea_popescu: 5e27bfa2124fc47579899d8cc25c46c01ddb4c7c9a67387a2d6167c4576e11e07b692aa8045c01ab4ee635cd37fb82cf1dd1e84d4579265ff0c0a4236a9a8025
mircea_popescu: 32b05e6f90abf11865f57021a91e335d4593d2983d52daa4d1c0a6d5ae4acd491628cbc71a52187efd48427315dd2b70cf645ac126ae78127aa31aec6619cdb2
asciilifeform: the standard yoke test is done against a known-good unit, rather than like this. ( why, is described in the log from late 2016 )
mircea_popescu: 58acc2f7a255c650c156d9fbc20248a7814a2458ce2da98c115408d5497cd78d6d57759a37c2705762bf6ee03f7af8ae3a187c2f4d3715e3abd30ffe66837656
mircea_popescu: 71354e3ac7ae3a1529870fc90e287f7f67d75dee11cf90827fe93a94e4c2cc2fb5bcf81dcf0a650b7491d1de9b7b3b4f9453a06380179fe3d437717b93092b24
mircea_popescu: (sha512 line+"hurr", should be enough for everyone).
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you would have to feed'em in pairwise ( or bit-interleaved ), as the thing has two 'mouths'. but otherwise yes, you feed'em in at particular clock, and oughta expect particular output.
mircea_popescu: i'm just going by what you said ; yes it's unrelated to what actually happens, but that's your fault!
asciilifeform: there is nuffin unreasonable about it, i just dun have the arse-mouth hoses set up atm.
asciilifeform: it's what that 4th pin on fg, is for.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-11 17:09 asciilifeform: apeloyee: fg is a very unusual device, in that you can actually put, e.g., terabyte of known input into it, and only you know what the half-GB that ought to come out, is, there is not physically room inside for a secret crib sheet of that size
asciilifeform: ok i'll bite, where does it store the correct-output corresponding to, e.g., tomorrow's #t log
a111: Logged on 2018-01-12 01:09 mircea_popescu: (sha512 line+"hurr", should be enough for everyone).
mircea_popescu: stored a good few tb in those bytes.
asciilifeform: that ain't the output of the fg.v state machine tho.
mircea_popescu: no, it's a different machine.
asciilifeform: right. and if that's what you get out of the hose, you know that you've been slipped a fg that sha512('hurr'+sha512('hurr'....
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder if mircea_popescu ever actually read the instruction.
asciilifeform: ( and with rum, or without )
asciilifeform: ( folx who ~did~ read it , know that it is possible to determine that a particular fg evaluates the same function on the input, for a particular string pair S1, S2 of bits, fed simultaneously into I1a, I2a, I1b, I2b, of FG a and b respectively; by syncing the oscillators , by connecting the 4th pins of a and b together.
asciilifeform: but if you to compute the particular output expected for S1, S2 in advance, you gotta specify the clock freq, and run fg.v in e.g. 'verilator' . and it takes a while. )
asciilifeform: *want to
asciilifeform: *particular pair of fg evaluates...
mircea_popescu: let's just say that this "need at least 1 bit of blackbox per tb of arbitrary input" view is, sadly, not how it works.
asciilifeform: i'ma have to make a 2nd test jig to give to mircea_popescu for his bday or sumthing, apparently.
asciilifeform: (originally expected that folx would do this with own hands, lol)
asciilifeform: item's as close as asciilifeform knows how to make, to 'testable with bare hands', but not closer.
asciilifeform: ( $subj is figure 2 of https://archive.is/CGQkR . )
asciilifeform: incidentally the 'pull out rng 'a', then 'b', then 'both', then...' test is a low-tech preventer of 'enemy intercepts parcel and reflashes the cpld to shit marsaglia prng'.
asciilifeform: but at this point almost certainly repeating ancient thread.
asciilifeform: ( exercise for advanced reader : write a substitute evil_fg.v that fools a user who limits himself to the above test. )
asciilifeform: and hah, i think i finally see what mircea_popescu's objection was. no, thing dun have to physically store every byte of 'evil' output. elementarily a sabotaged fg will behave as prng.
asciilifeform thought this was clear from context, apparently this is a sin
danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/ExAydddhsIk << for you animaniacs fans
shinohai: rofl danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform omfg stop spewing, jesus christ. you said A STUPID THING. i ~asked~ you whether you mean the stupid thing. you CONFIRMED. i showed you why the thing you said is the stupid thing. you're now on the 25th line of "oh no really, unrelated item". never you fucking mind fgs and test righs and whatnot. the original proposition, as stated, was broken.
mircea_popescu: there's no such wonder in nature as the fabled "no room inside to blackbox". if only there were, yes. but there isn't.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha! finally, i guess i shoulda read all them lines. so then!
asciilifeform just hung up a 4 square metre corkboard, interesting how room seems now quieter
asciilifeform: didn't think it would make a palpable diff ( and it is not why i have it ) but still lulzy
mircea_popescu just ate his pot of beans. shall i recount how it came to be ? if anyone's cookingcurious...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are your walls concrete ?
asciilifeform: nope, cardboard
mircea_popescu: it's just about inconceivable how much concrete vibrates.
asciilifeform: here in cardboardland can only dream of concrete.
asciilifeform: but yes rigid objects vibrate
mircea_popescu: the vinyl siding things, i've never measured. but concrete is basically a sponge of any energy -> low freq vibration.
mircea_popescu: if you're sensitive to it, wouldn't surprise me if a cork shadowing you would be perceivable.
asciilifeform: lolyea if i lived in a concrete room i might end up with 4 corkboards, not 1
mircea_popescu: or rugs.
asciilifeform draws the orcline at rugs!111
mircea_popescu: ro cannonical is "rapirea din serai", ie, kidnapping sabine scene
asciilifeform: i think i saw it !
asciilifeform: in that adhoc museum thing
mircea_popescu: aha. i expect.
asciilifeform: 'communist konsoomer'
mircea_popescu: "This is obviously just my opinion but if your buying anything now your literally throwing money down the drain. It doesnt matter how high the value might get its more of how low will it get and everything is clearly headed down." << 2014 aussie wisdom re btc.
mircea_popescu: THE COMMON PEOPLE!
asciilifeform turns head and looks at the literal wall of ffa
asciilifeform: prolly i'ma have the thing printed as a poster, in the end, for aficionados.
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea!
asciilifeform: anyone recall linus's orig. poster ?
asciilifeform: i once worked in a salt mine where a d00d had it in his cell, the way other prisoners have pr0n
mircea_popescu: i can believe.
shinohai: http://archive.is/PAeyd <<< tl;dr "Oh shit, mircea_popescu was right"
asciilifeform: shinohai: lol, without of course any such mention in'ere
mircea_popescu: "active in the cryptocurrency space", what happens when you're not part of bitcoin but like rubber chicken.
asciilifeform: and in fact thing reads like the usual 'it WASN'T ME! it was THESE sc4mz0rs overTHERE' rubbish
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, the pantsuit attempt to "counter fake news" by making five trillion of these worthless medium shits is quite amusing.
shinohai: Precisely like that
mircea_popescu: they really dun get how anything works, do they.\
asciilifeform: they ~all read exactly ~same
asciilifeform: but then again i'm not an expert entomologist
mircea_popescu: but "different" because "different domain" see.
shinohai: Yet still can't conceive that it is game over for altcorn
asciilifeform: this one saved the apparently mandatory scalingism claptrap for the last few para.
asciilifeform: which i suppose is different from 2016 pinoy style guide.
mircea_popescu: improvements! reform! PROGRESS!
phf: lucy was lulzy, about 10-15 minutes worth watching and then it goes completely off rails, and like some kind of psychedelic train keeps rolling through landscape out and away.
mircea_popescu: phf exactly.
mircea_popescu: the early part, up until the passports wank, could have worked as part of a different film. woman can act, if only she weren't caught in the pantsuitwank she could have had a career.
phf: right, it's johansson opposite of choi min-sik
mircea_popescu: who the fuck washes blood off hands with perrier water poured out of a bottle...
mircea_popescu: but anyway, clueless audience may enjoy.
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu ever review that other recent 'herd understands quite well what its future looks like' amerifilm
mircea_popescu: has a certain purely-cinematic surrealism to it, like ye olde stories of orcs in sweden burning the parquet for cooking fuel.
shinohai: I only watched the movie for dat ass
asciilifeform: the one with 'rich folx live in space station nao'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly not ?
asciilifeform: damnit what was it called
danielpbarron: elysium or something
phf: yeah, i thought that was lulzy, but at least it doesn't ~only~ have a cheap explanation
mircea_popescu: honestly i'd much rather see good films.
asciilifeform: similarly trashy-with-hints-of-ohshit
mircea_popescu: rather than poor and sickly...
asciilifeform: i dun think anyone's making 'good'
mircea_popescu: so good, in fact, it seriously threatens my ideas of "best", which... i'm old, i've seen everything, i had given up hope.
asciilifeform: oh hah 2013
phf: i have a backlog of excellent movies, but i've quarantineed myself, so instead of regular movie knights figured i'll see whatever trash
mircea_popescu: knights ?!
asciilifeform: lel singleeventfault!11
mircea_popescu: he seriously is going around cursing the insufkfkichientkths kkonsonathsts of ttttthis llang isnt he
asciilifeform: ze knights who say kneee!11
mircea_popescu: we're the nights of the round table, our beets are formidable!
asciilifeform for many years pronounced the 'k' in 'knack', a favourite eng word
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i also pronounce various such. why the fuck not, "it's there" right ?
phf: i got nothing, though i blame lucy. if nothing else the movie clears your head out of any kind of thoughts
mircea_popescu: twas a good fun!
shinohai: http://archive.is/ym85Q <<< LOL "Mining contract" users rekt
mod6: hai
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
mod6: So I have an experimental patch here that applies right on top of release version 99994 of my vtron. ONLY use this in a testing capacity - the contents of the patch are subject to change at any time.
asciilifeform: oh hey neato
asciilifeform puts on conveyor.
mod6: thanks, let me know if questions/comments/etc.
mod6: oh, I should maybe also say, one thing that was added as more of a debugging feature was the 'press-path' or 'pp' command. Which will dump out the exact press path to be used from a given head.
mod6: This may be removed before release. Flow still works as it previously did, just is no longer used in press.
mircea_popescu: like a debugging feature basically.
mod6: yah.
mod6: correction: flow is not used to ~feed~ press operation. still used to ensure that the HEAD is within the flow set.
mod6: this one line
mod6: death("HEAD: $press[1] not found in flow\n") if !grep /^$press[1]$/, @flow;
mod6: Going back to the issue exposed by the eucrypt mpi_fix_copy_incr vpatch, you can see now that the press path is calculated by including all of the given HEAD's antecedents recursively.
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