Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-04-26 | 2017-04-28 → ↓
mod6: (which also links gpg-contracts; required reading)
Framedragger: special delivery for asciilifeform's barf collection: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14209897 (this comment)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F9126CEFDBE6D3D04B277D15BFB9C3C252A66A5719D25500191324224585BEEF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9114393414333 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.92.112.65 (ssh-rsa key from 91.92.112.65 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (. BG)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: snoar
asciilifeform: in not-quite-noose, https://archive.is/6deIg >> 'When I take a good hard look at what the world will be like in 10 years, I think most things are going to be on lease'
asciilifeform: 'He recruited a former hedge fund salesman named Kyle Ferguson as co-founder and launched Wags Lending, thinking dog leases would mark just the first step in a vertically integrated pet-financing company that would eventually include food deliveries, chew-toy subscriptions, and veterinary loans. Then their point-of-sale lease financing became a hit, and they decided to double down on it.'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648419 >> lol rank nonsense. the left is willing to talk about how it's just as good as the right.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 03:50 trinque: far cry from that guy's "the left is willing to crack heads, unlike the right"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648429 << somehow they're married to this idea that people will continue interacting with the apes. i have no idea why this is so deeply entrenched, but let's just say it's entirely nonsense.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 13:45 asciilifeform: in not-quite-noose, https://archive.is/6deIg >> 'When I take a good hard look at what the world will be like in 10 years, I think most things are going to be on lease'
mircea_popescu: the world of the future is, girl hopes to be taken in by someone 3 links removed from a lord, and the boy is euthanised at birth.
mircea_popescu also likes BingoBoingo tax piece. he's shaped himself into quite the gazette's editor, hasn't he!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-25#1647833 << aaand it's gone. every day since last year, two day absence since april 25th. idjits.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-25 15:58 asciilifeform: aah lolk
mircea_popescu: it all goes back again and again AND AGAIN to that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648191 piece.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-26 23:44 mircea_popescu: "My own experience here is depressing – nobody, not even the smartest folks, is willing to read anything unless they came specifically to read. If they came for any other purpose, forget it. When you're a tutorial, you can tell things to people and they listen. When you're an error message, people read you to the extent necessary to make you go away but no further. And when you're a warning, people simply ignore you. It suc
mircea_popescu: "modern mind does not wish to take action until something hurts and does not agree anything is allowed to hurt it"
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: how's teh morning find ya mod6
mod6: ah good, slept well for the first time in what seems like weeks.
mircea_popescu: good for youy
mod6: how's everything goin for you?
mod6: (fun fact, it's snowing here... ever-so-slightly)
mircea_popescu: in april ?!
mircea_popescu: eh, im just prepping up a new article.
mod6: ah nice.
mod6: yeah, it happens sometimes. april, lot of precip, sometimes gets cold enough.
mod6: i've seen it snow on June 1st here few years ago.
mircea_popescu: i last saw snow like five years ago
mod6: It's one of those things, kinda neat/pretty, but a huge PITA for driving and other activities.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so how do i get the interval set up in your logotron ? i clicked on a date and got the #34 added. but the dot is not clickable so i can't close the interval. wut do ?
mircea_popescu: i guess i reconstructed the http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170427/from:34/to:46#34 format on the basis of logs.
scriba: Logged on 2017-04-27: [02:14:22] * mircea_popescu went to business school here today, spent five minutes listening in on what evidently was the graduation project of some 4th year kid. do you know what he had ?
lobbes is looking forward to this latest trilema
lobbes: I wonder if CR businezz schools also force their students to take 'environmental responsibility' courses like in usia
mircea_popescu: i expect the cr business ~students~ insist, because by the looks of them they REALLY need the easy credits.
mircea_popescu: in my experience there's two major demographics interested in the business school, one being kids who could master physics but do not wish to because they'd much rather live with a half dozen whores than with a labful of mice ; the other being girlies who could not actually master poledance who figure they should not have to try anwyay and live out their whole lives as mediocre strippers because reasons ("i'm smart! everyone
mircea_popescu: tells me so!").
mircea_popescu: their relative interplay describes exceedingly well the degree of rot in the society the business school represents : if the girls are submissive and very warmly and wetly thankful for being allowed to go there it's type A, if they figure they run the place it's type B.
mircea_popescu: the distinction can readily be made on whether it is acceptable or not acceptable to "not be good with numbers", for which the "responsibility" courses are a great proxy.
mircea_popescu: seeing how the only graduation paper i reviewed was "entrepreneurship as a succession of pictures of faces" as opposed to "entrepreneurship modeled as a banach algebra"...
asciilifeform: eh the banach folx still produced goldman sachs, rather than honest commerce.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/mathilde-the-ant-or-mathilde-the-data-processing-system-at-your-option-with-extras-either-way/ << Trilema - Mathilde the ant or Mathilde the Data Processing System, at your option. With extras either way.
asciilifeform: in recent comedic gold : https://archive.is/WGZLN << 'knifeman'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: lmao england is such a shit hole these days
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the earlier point - there's a very strong line dividing the case where "your idea will never work, but you can have an A anyway" because obviously you can't write a functional description of business but nevertheless that should not stop you from trying ; and "your idea if you can call it that means you can never get anything other than an F no matter what you do", because apparently you separated from human cultur
mircea_popescu: e sometime around preschool.
mircea_popescu: i don't so much care whether the goldman sachs attempt worked or didn't work. i very much care that juju worship be socially unacceptable.
mircea_popescu: ie, the "results-oriented culture" applies strictly to a subset of possible things. you'll compare two doctors on the basis of whether their techniques work, but a shaman is not included nor can be included in the proceedings.
mircea_popescu: and to not put to fine a point on it : white culture ~WHICH MEANS~ human culture entirely rests on the notion that some are inferior. things, people, ideas, methods, etcetera. this is the underpinning of "european heritage" or whatever you wish to call it : the notion of inferioritate altrui.
asciilifeform: granted asciilifeform is not a pro voodoo priest, but imho, e.g., black–scholes, or the 'standard model' of physics, are equally 'juju', and equally divorced from physical reality, and far more destructively so than some orc derp praying to a moloch made from old tin cans in some mournful shithole
asciilifeform: the basic sin of the orc and 'human' jujuist are the same. just as, e.g., murder committed with a wooden club is exactly as murderous as with death ray; or scam pulled with 'shell game' is just as scammy as with derivatives.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is why the difference between physicist and physiciatrian is currently made by ~how~ they introduce the models.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648477 << i dun think this 'equality' nonsense exists, or ever existed, as anything other than a ~professed~ belief among the rotters. nobody actually buys it.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 15:42 mircea_popescu: and to not put to fine a point on it : white culture ~WHICH MEANS~ human culture entirely rests on the notion that some are inferior. things, people, ideas, methods, etcetera. this is the underpinning of "european heritage" or whatever you wish to call it : the notion of inferioritate altrui.
mircea_popescu: fat african women buy it.
asciilifeform: even lowliest 'redditor' looks down at what he thinks are the yet-scummier redditus.
mircea_popescu: always have. that's the backbone of africa, culturally.
asciilifeform: 'fat african women' are as american as crapple.
mircea_popescu: and, of course, anal children secrete it naturally, like harlequinism victims secrete chitin plates.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever been to africa ?
asciilifeform: can't say that i have, or desperately burning with urgency to.
mircea_popescu: then on what scent did you train your heuristicdog!
asciilifeform: ( and become mircea_popescu proceeds to recall his egypt -- egypt is not anthropological africa... )
mircea_popescu: (harlequinism ie harlequin-type ichthyosis, a frightening disease of the body mirroring the sad state of anal child's mind)
asciilifeform: i haven't yet been to pripyat, either; or to fukushima; or to st. quentin prison; etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure that barnum had an ichthyosis sufferer in his lineup
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you need something to judge on. otherwise what you're saying is "on the basis of all the dogs i've seen, elephant is as canine as caniche", ie, http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/#footnote_10_71892
asciilifeform: ( the barnum circus co, incidentally, apparently is closing down for good, quite soon. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who, in historic africa, was fat ?
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu can 'aristotelize' from elementary principles, why not asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: old women.
asciilifeform: i dunno that i've ever even seen, with own eyes, a ~fat~ old woman.
asciilifeform: from africa, or from antarctica, any.
mircea_popescu: and since we're on this : egypt is, for the arab world, a sort of holywood/bolywood. it is where the official tv arabic is spoken on the street, and it is where every flea bitten hussy aims to go. fulla sudanese hotties just like burbank is fulla kansas ra ra fuck ma a'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform really ?!
asciilifeform: dun prove anything, either way. if mircea_popescu tells me that they exist -- i'ma believe.
mircea_popescu had recently pic of african shaman fatties on the very trilema.
mircea_popescu: notice similarity to famous prehistoric fat woman statuette ?
asciilifeform: these dun look old tho
mircea_popescu: would you describe them as "young women" ie "girls" ?
asciilifeform: hard to say, too far departed from what i see as human form
mircea_popescu: then what's left ?
asciilifeform: ( can you say from photo old 'elephant man', how old he was in photo! )
mircea_popescu: the "old" in "old woman" does not describe the physical woman in question. it describes her chances of successful interaction with the lordship.
mircea_popescu: just like "expensive car" does not mean something about the car.
asciilifeform: aaah lolk
mircea_popescu: it says something about the context in which the car finds itself ~whether it wants to or not~.
mircea_popescu: "old woman" == "female sapiens expected to have found her master prior to the moment of speech".
asciilifeform: ^ the tardano makers -- never sleep!111
asciilifeform: 'Now, as soon as I looked at this device I already had a really bad feeling. First of all, through the vent holes on the top I could see that the PCB inside took up ~25% of the footprint of the device, the case was considerably larger than the PCB inside it, which seemed odd. Second, the MAC address on the bottom looked familiar, really familiar. Putting that little thought to the back of my mind I cracked open the case by removing t
asciilifeform: he standard screws in the bottom to confirm my initial suspicion.'
asciilifeform: embedded bonus lol:
asciilifeform: 'This is great news, I can't send emails from my new super awesome secure email server to anyone with a Microsoft email account because they just return it. The story is pretty similar across the board with the email either being returned or put straight in the spam folder of the recipient. I tried against GMail and a few other large providers and found that not one of them made it to the inbox anywhere. After I got a few emails boun
asciilifeform: ced I thought I'd check to see if my IP had been flagged yet and to my surprise it had already been placed on 3 blacklists!'
asciilifeform: ^ fact. ( recall the original jwz thread ? )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shoot the guy an email ?
mircea_popescu: he has an encrypt form on his contact page even.
mircea_popescu: phuctor even has his key.
asciilifeform: what to tell him ?
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is currently batting 0/N ... )
asciilifeform: i'ma quite willing to try tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ask if he wants to check out the FUCKGOATS
mircea_popescu: i figure we can afford a test unit for some dude you read.
asciilifeform: fwiw i read him today for first time.
asciilifeform: but sure.
mircea_popescu: hey, he got mentioned in the most serene republic's forum, no backsies.
mircea_popescu: "Because the device is just a Raspberry Pi under the hood that made taking a backup really easy. I simply popped out the Micro SD card and put it in my card reader and used Win32DiskImager to take a full clone of the card." in other lulz.
mircea_popescu: lol "super secure email of the future" runs not just dovecot, but also php and mysql for good measure.
mircea_popescu: o further gems : function generate_setup_password_salt() { $salt = time() . '*' . $_SERVER['REMOTE_ADDR'] . '*' . mt_rand(0,60000); $salt = md5($salt); return $salt; :D
mircea_popescu: ahahaha SUPPORTS GO-DADDY domains ONLY!
mircea_popescu: in order to... use it as ddns!
asciilifeform: sooo i wrote to him.
mircea_popescu: create-handshake.php!
mircea_popescu: lol undocumented admin account. this shit's pretty epic.
mircea_popescu: !~google shawn@digiland.com
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Digiland tablet ( Cell Phones ) in San Jacinto, CA - OfferUp: <https://offerup.com/item/detail/217205700/>; nomx: The world's most secure communications protocol - Scott Helme: <https://scotthelme.co.uk/nomx-the-worlds-most-secure-communications-protocol/>; How-To: Root TIANSHI DIGI-LAND DL1010Q a1008l_v1.4 4.4.2: <https://www.oneclickroot.com/root/tianshi-digi-land-dl1010q-a1008l_v1-
mircea_popescu: www.digiland.com is a (very inept) isp. digiland.com does not resolve.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-21 17:14 mircea_popescu: just make a fucking isp, that's not run by a moron and consequently ahead of 90% of the pack.
mircea_popescu: o look, sam@sambarrow.com, shawn's boss, thinks they "have a position open at their local indianapolis branchg of midwestern technology"-- for a middle manager, no less. also thinks he's not in need of full time employment.
mircea_popescu: also looking for, "partners for SaaS projects to provide insight and marketing efforts while we provide the technical backend"
mircea_popescu: fancy that wonder, technical back-end for saas from the raspberri-pi-in-a-pizza-box experts.
mircea_popescu: "Freelance IT Work. I am open for freelance work. Note that I have a project minimum of $5,000 and a minimum monthly hosting and maintenance fee of $250. Anything less I can still help through one of my companies."
mircea_popescu: shit this has been entertaining. thank you asciilifeform for this satchel of c-gold.
asciilifeform: gotta love the by-now-regular 'low effort'(tm)(r) 'i'll take a raspi and put shitinux on it and...' folx
mircea_popescu: "Testimonials. Mr. Barrow provided the Marine Executive Association with WordPress modules that surpassed our expectations. His support, expertise and timeliness in PHP and WordPress were well worth his fees. I'd recommend him without reservation! - Will Donalson, HCI"
mircea_popescu: holy shit, the midwest is a whole differtent game. what the fuck, nation of Fargo ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform put nothing, it came with raspbian, the ubuntu flavour of the thing.
asciilifeform: even better
mircea_popescu: i guess someone should send sam an offer to make two bitcents showing us his tits ?
shinohai: I'll give him Rock Chalk instead
mircea_popescu: but DUDE MANAGES A PORTOFOLIO!!11 of rental properties in indianapolis!
mircea_popescu: and also buys houses as-is!
mircea_popescu: he's totally like a businessman and everything, if we run into each other at some party he's totally going to try and save one of my slavegirls.
asciilifeform: i've nfi !
mircea_popescu: is maintenance mode a good thing ?
asciilifeform: goddady, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: is this the guy above ?
asciilifeform: ( i offered him a review unit, and pointer to come here )
asciilifeform: aha, author of linked piece
mircea_popescu: well, can't blame him, i expect bbc-whatever actually pays to have that shit looked at.
asciilifeform: ( not of 'nsacardano', that genius is yet-unknown to us )
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski ^ has a fan apparently
mircea_popescu: oh oh. no, no, he actually told me about this.
asciilifeform: hey pete_dushenski -- sold any?
asciilifeform mentally classified the find with the ~last~ set of 'cardano betting site', etc
mircea_popescu: the discussion went something like : "i am affraid though the name may put people off, how fixated are you" "i don't specifically care" "oh here's this website i made" "dude, why the fuck are you making websites, go talk to people".
mircea_popescu: which is probably when it went into maint mode.
asciilifeform: fwiw it dun have the name printed on it. can resell as whatever you like, folx.
trinque: has the bunghole stretch tho!
mircea_popescu: only the wise will recognise.
trinque: you shall know them by their recognition of the sign.
mircea_popescu: imo this is great for buttcoin -- let people use that dun know what they're using. what's the empire excel at if noit this ?
shinohai: I'll sell them as MIGs - Magical Integer Generators
mircea_popescu: hopefully some bright russian entrepreneur finds a way to call them PIZDA
trinque: tell people they're "Raspberry USB Heatsinks", sell loads
mircea_popescu: incidentally, FG could plug directly into raspberry give it true rng, huh ?
asciilifeform: into pdp8 if you like
mircea_popescu: these together mounted on say quadcopter suddenly are rather dangerous. for one thing, no way to intercept its comms anymore.
asciilifeform: anything that can receive serial @115200 baud, 8,N,1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform true freqhopping!
asciilifeform: and what on other end ?
asciilifeform: or is this a 'write only memory' genius invention.
mircea_popescu: other end ALSO raspi!
mircea_popescu: see ? it goes from ground tether to no tether.
asciilifeform: don't settle for small change, either, power with polywell fusor.
mircea_popescu: looky, the transport layer (ie, encrypted comms) and the radio layer are separable. similarily, the power and the comms layer. yes it'll still need to get power (somehow, which may be from ground), but the fact that it no longer depends on ground for its freq hopping is important on its own.
trinque: also, while turds, can be bought for cash in stores.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: frequency hopping is a solved problem in 1980s, you use blum-blum-shub (or variant) if using public key crypto; or same otp as for everything else, if otp.
mircea_popescu: yes you have the traditional model where quad talks to computer, and computer says "your next freq is X and encrypt to key Y" and it's all fine. but now quad can talk to quad, and pick an X just as good as computer'd have picked it. yes this is worthless if Y is weak anyway -- but if Y is not weak anyway it is in fact valuable, even if it might be irrelevant for arbitrary usecase Z
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you still have to pick an X. if machine has no RNG, its picking of X will be weak.
asciilifeform: ah for ephemeral key gen.
asciilifeform sees what mircea_popescu meant.
mircea_popescu: FG allows airborne unit to be as qualified at X picking as ground unit is.
mircea_popescu: lel that last line got delayed a coupla minutes
asciilifeform: https://securitysnakeoil.org << from helme's comments page. lulzcollection.
asciilifeform: 'As one person put it to me: MyDataAngel believes that they’re the “founding fathers” of truly-secure encryption. If you have a problem with this, then you must hate America. '
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: does this count as plagiarizing tmsr rhetoric or notrly ?
mircea_popescu: "The only good thing I can say about this product is that it does not create an MX record for your domain, upholding the "no MX" in the name. I've no idea why not having an MX record for your domain is a good thing, but, it doesn't create one nonetheless. The python script that runs every 15 minutes only adds A records for mail and localmail, nothing else. Interestingly, the GoDaddy API client that they use doesn't support MX
mircea_popescu: records anyway, so I'm not sure if it was built around that limitation or it was a happy coincidence." << holy shit the "built around" theory really sounds pervasive dunnit ?
mircea_popescu: the bill gates legacy, a generation of build-arouind "engineers"
mircea_popescu: all the "philanthropy" in christendom can not wipe away that shitstain.
shinohai: BitcoinUnlimited hashrate following yesterday's revelations: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-bxfC5UQAALxJ0.jpg
asciilifeform: shinohai: which revelation
mircea_popescu: aaaawww. is this good for fiatcoin ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform antbleed i gather.
shinohai: asciilifeform: antbleed
mircea_popescu: the whole "bitcoin unlimited" thing was a chinese dorks pet project.,
asciilifeform: lul, whole thing powered by diddled miners?!
mircea_popescu: just like the other whole thing.
mircea_popescu: there's no honest man in that game.
asciilifeform: iirc 'other whole thing' wasn't powered by much of anything
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: 'The advertised unit is a keychain that plugs in through the headphone jack of a mobile device, meant to interact closed-source app to provide impenetrable crypto. This crypto is said to use a one-time pad (OTP) system. The design, photos, prototype, and social networking vibe feel all too similar to the vaporware you’d expect a San Francisco based startup of 5 college students to poorly slap together and unload to unsuspecting ven
asciilifeform: ture capital firms for a million in seed money, who later are forced to abandon the broken concept and cut their losses. But it’s not like that– these 5 college students are from Belgium!'
mircea_popescu: so what if they're from belgium ?
mircea_popescu: niggers dun get free $$$ ?
asciilifeform: mega-disappoint, i imagine.
asciilifeform: 'Sever™ shreds your data into billions of tiny data packets, encrypts each one with a powerful new encryption algorithm developed to STOP villains dead in their tracks...'
asciilifeform: ^ dozens of these.
mircea_popescu: i should point out that the primary driver of all these ridiculous "products" is the utter illiteracy of the general population.
asciilifeform: and the only brake -- is the ~poverty~ of selfsame illiterate beoble
mircea_popescu: which is why the correct approach is to make the general population poorer.
asciilifeform: what'd that look like ? it isn't as if typical, e.g., usaschwitz inmate, will ever touch real money with own hands
mircea_popescu: it'd be like bitcoin going ever higher in terms of fiatcoin.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/M6z6F/?raw=true << in other pdp11isms. from asciilifeform's chamber of horrors (warning: aficionados only.)
asciilifeform: ^ if anyone finds the proof unsatisfying, asciilifeform would like to hear about it ^
trinque: you know, ada syntax is *quite* like plpgsql
asciilifeform: trinque: ~pascal syntax
trinque: ah, neat
asciilifeform: deceptively familiar-looking to ~every schoolboy. however most programs a n00b writes -- end up not compiling.
asciilifeform: ( for entirely good reasons )
asciilifeform: paste is not a complete proggy, but excerpt, to put the arithmetical statement in context.
asciilifeform: ( q for readers : are the two equations intuitively obvious ? or is the tabular thing actually necessary. )
phf: i take it and/or/not are bitwise in ada?
asciilifeform: correct ( when operands are bitwise-operable. )
phf: and Bitness is some (global?) flag for endianness?
asciilifeform: phf: it isn't global, it is part of the 'generic' definition (analogous to cpp template.) will become apparent when you read entire thing.
asciilifeform: ditto 'word' (the routines work for all possible word sizes)
asciilifeform: and is endian-insensitive, and pointer-free.
phf: but i mean shift_right shifts right or left depending on bitness, or am i misreading?
asciilifeform: 'bitness' is, e.g., 64. 32. etc
phf: aah
phf: k
asciilifeform: Shift_Right(N, pos) shifts right n positions. (compiles to, e.g., SHR RAX, 1 ) etc
phf: so the formula gives you a carry mask, but you only care if the highest bit carried, in which case there's overflow
asciilifeform: correct
asciilifeform: this seems like masochism except when you realize that 1) compiler does not give you access to carry flag, portably, or ever will 2) carry flag is a non-mathematical (external) abstraction that cannot be SPARKized
asciilifeform: (1) is why all (afaik) known bignumtrons use inline asm turds
mircea_popescu: in other scams, https://gust.com/companies/securedincomereserve <--> https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr16935.htm ("guaranteed" bond "platform" targetting old people / revolutionary data compressing technology)
mircea_popescu: somehow that ilona alexis mendelbaum character managed to not put tits up, either, which is the most scandalous part of the whole affair.
phf: i don't think it's masochism, it's very much in the knuthlamportdijkstra tradition of things, but yeah, typically you would ask cpu with asm if there was an overflow
phf: and all the bignums are the same size? judging by the fact that you're walking the bigits with the same index?
asciilifeform: phf: indeed they are
asciilifeform: ^ not final, signed, or intended for battlefield use by anybody, quite yet.
mircea_popescu: https://nomx.com/ << putting here for a snapshot.
asciilifeform: lol mircea_popescu is enjoying himself!
mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy.
mircea_popescu: the butthurt is like tardstalk.org grade.
mod6 looks
mircea_popescu: "we perceive that there's significant differential between the illiterate tards we are targetting and the people capable of following this ~blogger's~ (you know, as if that's somehow derrogatory) article."
asciilifeform: phf: 'infinitely' expandable bignums have their place -- phuctor, for instance. but they are a specialized and EXPENSIVE thing
asciilifeform: ( expensive in complexity , rather than cpu )
asciilifeform: there is no valid reason to have them in a crypto proggy.
asciilifeform: note that 'fz' size can be whatever you like. it simply has to be set at warmup time.
asciilifeform: ( the first command in a 'P' program is to set the register width. )
asciilifeform: the second -- sets the maximal number of computational steps.
phf: can you have multiple different sized (obviously non-compatible) bignums in the same system?
asciilifeform: you could. but why.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524210 thereby getting cemented into the thing ? you're making 258 bit bignums or what
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 12:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're on this btw, the way i want tmsr-rsa key generation to work is as follows : a contains a number of entropy bytes specified by user in tmsr-rsa.conf read whenever tmsr-rsa.conf specifies (such as urandom); b contains a base-tmsr string specified by user. c = base-tmsr(a).b ; p = nextprime(cut(sha512(c),257)) ; process is repeated for q = nextprime (cut(sha512(c'),258));
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: goddamnit
asciilifeform: N bits !
asciilifeform: N gets set when program runs.
asciilifeform: consider reading the link...
asciilifeform: no magic nums.
asciilifeform: no heap use.
mircea_popescu: you want me to read and understand 500 lines of ada "sneak preview" in real time ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-09 22:06 asciilifeform: sooooooo in other nyooz here's a small preview of things to come:
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: end goal is specifically something that specifically mircea_popescu could read, while emptying a glass of rum, without any booklarnin' required. and grasp it.
mircea_popescu: yeah but ima read the release.
asciilifeform: no rush.
asciilifeform: general principle is -- running in fixed space.
asciilifeform: (how much space -- can be set for the occasion. but no growth.)
asciilifeform: the other principle is simplicity above all else save correctness.
asciilifeform: no optimizations of any kind whatsoever. ( in fact, pessimizations, e.g. comparisons all take same amount of time regardless of where difference is, or whether there is one. addition of 0+0 takes same time as, e.g., 2**256 - 1 + 2**256 - 1 . etc )
phf: asciilifeform: question lets me understand moving parts better, rather than specifics
asciilifeform: there is a minimum of specifics.
phf: rather than "omg, i want this to be variable sized in my next progy!!1"
phf: rather than "omg, i want this to be variable sized in my next progy!!1"
phf: easy boy
asciilifeform: when you instantiate the generic, you get a bignumtron of given width.
asciilifeform: ( can do it as many times as you like )
mircea_popescu: "I really, really like the fact that Microsoft has embraced Linux in the form of releasing Ubuntu on Windows." "Keep the operating system up to date. If Windows 10 rebooting on you is so inconvenient, you're a lost cause--the most recent update lets you defer up to a month by the way." << same source.
mircea_popescu: windows idiots are quite the fucking problem aren't they.
trinque: guy even says "embraced".
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: there's a large pile of these, by the way, windows "computer experts".
trinque: after several threads with mircea_popescu re: language I look for that kind of thing everywhere
trinque: guy's subconsiously politically signaling
mircea_popescu: and they all did the same things -- worked in "anti virus" for a spell, are very much into "virtualization", etc.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like how unemployable & unmarrigeable (in a word -- entirely unmarketable) "graduate student" is all into haskell, and africa-inclusive python etc.
mircea_popescu: the windows "computer expert" generally got hired as an intern by some usg."corporation" and specialiuzed in the workplace.
mircea_popescu: graduated from "i can make website" to "excel support" to "windows troubleshooting" to eventually "powershell" and "put it in my card reader and used Win32DiskImager to take a full clone of the card."
asciilifeform: 'Don't use pirated software or pirate any content. Netflix is cheap, Spotify is free if you tolerate ads, and honestly there are tonnes of open source solutions for whatever you need to do.' << lol!!
trinque: elliot did a lot of this, regurgitation of bad marketing, like most of his reading involved cereal boxes and ends of infomercials
mircea_popescu: does there exist a substantial us conversation BESIDES regurgitation / repackaging of marketing content ?
mircea_popescu: you may think eg pete_dushenski is a little strange for desiring nothing other than you know, making a new website where to retell fuckgoats shop page "in his own words". but who does anything else, on that sad continent ? where ? when ?
mircea_popescu: jerry seinfeld cropped his ad-hoc speech to "mr and mrs ross" from something called "The wrath of khan", which was what ? space-soap opera, ie extended kitchen detergent sales copy.
mircea_popescu: the last time us citizen actually said something in public that wasn't marketing-derivative might have been before mark twain was born.
trinque: see: hood chicago for extreme case of "kill anything that rises higher than this line"
trinque: seems to be what the whole anglosphere did to itself
mircea_popescu: it's one way to... "keep the peace"
trinque: and turn everyone into tribal idiots
mircea_popescu: hey, the (at the time, 1917s, 1867s etc) noted anti-intellectualism of usians yielded ~something~.
Framedragger: re. american who said sth interesting, i volunteer david lewis (the philosopher)! inb4 BingoBoingo's "only american philosopher was james joyce"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i had something narrower in mind, everyday social conversation.
Framedragger: yeah, mk :) i mean, you may as well be right lol.
trinque spent months years ago not talking to a soul except as needed at work
mircea_popescu: samuel clemens not random pick, he did these ad hoc speeches over dinner etc.
trinque: was lovely.
mircea_popescu: kinda wolfish neh ?
trinque: sure, and was doing mostly that, prowling about in nature, with free time
trinque: it's probably a better life to have the mind filled with the words of the intelligent, but silence is preferable to the neurotic babble
mircea_popescu: inb4 us medical profession wakes up to the sad fact that the raise in autism has nothing to do with ~organic~ causes. the kids just don't like the environment any, opt out.
trinque: "no, I just want to kill everyone I see"
Framedragger: s/james joyce/william james/ ^ BingoBoingo i mixed up my english, too
mircea_popescu: i thought you were being insulting deliberately o.O
phf: i thought that was some kind of high brow snark
mircea_popescu: it'd have been high brow snark had the reference somehow worked ; but i couldn't unearth one that'd so work. "last us philosopher was this irish novelist"
Framedragger: yeah in retrospect should have left that one be
mircea_popescu: (see a,a novel and the whole joyce-warhol "dialogue" also)
Framedragger: hah i didn't know about that! nice one...
Framedragger: btw there are like 770 people sitting and talking on ##crypto, it might not even be 100% hopeless, curious if they would respond well to FUCKGOATS advertising
asciilifeform: 'people'
Framedragger: usg sybils deliberately working to blackhole asciilifeform's emails!
trinque: check it out; he learned the splitting
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'people' in the sense of the randos hanging out, e.g., here, and never saying a word, is the idea.
mircea_popescu: there's a bunch of these obscure clutches in us subculture. elvis and his colonel, warhol and his hanger ons, the beatles + yoko ono + etc, waters divine and the whol;e baltimore gang, the algonquin long table, on it goes.
mircea_popescu: pretty much all that grows on the fertile soil of the red skin's plain is potatoe.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: when i said "might not even be worthless" i actually meant it in the sense that i observe chatter there and it's not all ~noise (but very small sample, and no time to read backlog there). then again, sure markov bots etc
asciilifeform: Framedragger: invite'em in
mircea_popescu: * Loaded log from Sun Jul 13 00:34:38 2014
mircea_popescu: apparently i was there before.
Framedragger: posted msg. inb4 "spamzor!"
asciilifeform: Cannot join #crypto (Channel is invite only). << interesting
mircea_popescu: * Topic for ##crypto is: Welcome to ##crypto for cryptography theory and practice | "We appeal, as human beings, to human beings: Remember your humanity, and forget the rest." | Resources: http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac http://www.keylength.com | Ethics: http://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/papers/moral-fn.pdf
mircea_popescu: * Topic for ##crypto set by hlieberman at Fri Jan 20 11:28:52 2017
asciilifeform: ## worx yea
asciilifeform: but what's in that other.
phf: whisperers
mircea_popescu: probably schneier.
asciilifeform: <Captain_Beezay> also,I'd never touch anything named that,regardless of quality. onerng is out there fyi << lel
asciilifeform: btw we did the 'onerng' thing here.
asciilifeform: !#s onerng
a111: Logged on 2014-10-28 12:51 asciilifeform: 2) http://moonbaseotago.com/onerng/schematic.png << vendor schematic. see bottom-right-hand, 'AP3105' switching voltage-booster. it's there because 3v is not enough to run an avalanche diode. guess how the booster works?
phf: i think the name is very much reminiscent of phrack oldschoolery, presumably before "Captain_Beezay" was old enough to computers
asciilifeform: copy-of-a-copy-of-a... like so much other anglo.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah well.
mod6: Will be moving on to third FG next.
trinque: not so much the copying as 1) copy what? and 2) why are the copies so lossy
Framedragger: nice one mod6, entropy still at steady 8.0 bits per byte i see :D
mod6: yeah, very steady on that part Framedragger
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: them heathens dun have logz, do they.
mod6: once all 5 are done, i'll pull together something more comprehensive for comparison; currently, i just have the raw output test data.
asciilifeform: mod6: one of my chronic irritants re testing fg is that i have nothing whatsoever worth comparing against.
mircea_popescu: you can ask, right ?
mircea_popescu: why ask me, i dun know 'em.
Framedragger: might be just noise after all
trinque: happy with their lives in the goop tube
mod6: asciilifeform: indeed. which is partly why maybe my posting these is useful for other folks. we can compare and contrast our fg's at least.
mircea_popescu: can anyone actually buy this thing ? if i click on "buy for 40 bucks" nothing happens
mod6: like Mr. P. can run same tests, see what it looks like compared to mod6's.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i ain't particularly interested in testing whitened 't'rng , also
asciilifeform: if i want whitening, i can dd if=/dev/urandom .
mircea_popescu: sure, but i dun think the website worx ?
asciilifeform: ( btw fun exercise, you get quite similar random 'weak' etc. )
asciilifeform: one would imagine.
mod6: the only other thing I could do, would be to just collect /dev/random until >~1Gb then run the same tests.
asciilifeform: mod6: might take a while.
mod6: and do that like on a bunch of different environments; gentoo, ubuntu 12/14/16, freebsd recent, openbsd (old?) and recent, deb 7 & 8, osx whatever versions
asciilifeform: speaking of subj, i finally have a LYSO crystal here. but not yet a suitable uv detector.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: seems to go to checkout page for me at http://moonbase.tictail.com/
mod6: indeed, could take weeks if not months
Framedragger: nice one, asciilifeform's house is getting luminescent lighting finally :D
mod6: the sample bredth of os's above is probably fine... but would want a wider variety of hardware environments.
mircea_popescu: im guessing my browser isn't ajaxy enough or such
mircea_popescu: Framedragger how can you pay ? paypal etc ?
mod6: doesn't probably do us all justice if I run some of these test collections on some shitty hardware i may or may not have.
mod6: would be good to get these tests from at least 3 different people.
asciilifeform: mod6: the thing to compare against would be another UNWHITENED rng.
asciilifeform: which is not a thing that appears to EXIST on the market.
mod6: yah, there's that too.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, paypal
mod6: could shortcircut that part in the random device?
Framedragger: i mean, testing and comparing results of these rngs is probably useful (i'm outta time as of now), hm
mircea_popescu: mod6 and ideally unassociated with nsa either.
mod6: ah true enough; be nice to have some outside anal
asciilifeform: mod6, mircea_popescu : i'm still waiting for one of the non-tmsr folx who bought, to publicly write something...
mircea_popescu: may take a while.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-26 20:35 asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://v.teknik.io/v/MlDDG << 'FUCKGOATS unboxing' ( pankkake ! )
asciilifeform: kako at one point threatened to buy one, and could make a fine critic. but never could be arsed.
asciilifeform: there were a number of folx whom i don't know, who bought. but none yet wrote in.
mircea_popescu: hey, they paid, that completes their obligations.
asciilifeform: no complaint on my end.
asciilifeform: i'd naively imagine that if they hated, or loved, or some combination, they might write, somewhere.
asciilifeform: but not afaik yet.
phf: i suspect that no vocal nonwot bought FUCKGOATS. it's either inwot, or else lurkers, that otherwise don't have any kind of presence. won't start participating with a review (even though that's probably a reason way to put self on radar)
phf: *reasonable
asciilifeform: apparently.
asciilifeform: no love/hate/any mail re the design, either, interestingly -- design, is public, anyone could read.
asciilifeform: even build -- himself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this very neatly mirrors the failure of same general population to make bitcoin via eulora.
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that there isn't some sort of large pocket of life out there that's being somehow missed on.
mircea_popescu: they just dun has it. will write reviews for pizza hut where they go.
asciilifeform: and oh lol, they have their own leah apparently.
asciilifeform: because these are issued, 1 per heathen pit.
phf: ##crypto?
asciilifeform: ( for all i know -- literally, issued. )
trinque: same pattern; shitty copy of X
mircea_popescu: this "we don't have a log" hurr is becoming the #1 dunning-kruger symptom. they dun have one and dun know why they'd miss it, just like i wouldn't havce known in 2012.
Framedragger: (leah or mp, maybe it's some kind of inevitable general great attractor pattern)
asciilifeform: public idiots have this notion, that somehow they are not public idiots if there is no (easily found) log.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: re earlier thread : i looked far and wide to possibly buy rng to compare with -- and found nothing worth buying ( no, i won't compare with whitened; i won't pay 20,000 $+ for a box of schematicless ??? ; etc )
Framedragger: that is depressingly sad isn't it. fair enough, good to know...
asciilifeform: same problem with intel's ( probably the most ubiquitous hardware rng )
asciilifeform: they 1) whiten with sha 2) won't under any circumstance give access to the raw input.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i doubt leah attracts anyone.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: badump-tss! something like 'flocking', in that particular case. though, yeah, maybe exactly opposite (leahs flock to places)
mod6: <+asciilifeform> even build -- himself. << one of the things im gonna be doing here, maybe with some handholding, is flashing xilinx chip with your fg.v
mircea_popescu: in other weird news, i've apparently gotten hella-good at handling wanna-be leahs, on the basis of nothing in particular. meditation, i guess, not like i've even interacted with the unfiltered refuse of angloshpere since the cat-v adventure.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah that's just insane :/
Framedragger: maybe it's the costa rican air
Framedragger: less turbulence.
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm getting old.
mod6: nah
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one can't well shake the suspicion the reason intel isn't keen to share raw stream is the fear that you'd poke it at the wrong time.
mircea_popescu: widely deployed snake oil, it's gotta happen.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, intel provideds us with a Taylor Campbell anchor for the ~riastradh@netbsd/developer/riastradh symbol, and other than an empty packages maintainer list, choice items such as https://www.slideshare.net/eurobsdcon/devrandom
mircea_popescu: factorable.net, of course. phuctor never heard of, of course. totally innocent bystander.
mircea_popescu: (for they following at home : factorable.net, an item existing entirely to try and pretend like phuctor didn't happen -- no longer exists on the web.
mircea_popescu: this, of course, has ~nothing to do with its failure at that intended task, a much younger Framedragger would assure us.)
Framedragger: wasn't factorable.net 2012? or was phuctor around in 2012
mod6: up and testing on FG #3.
mircea_popescu: around in 2012 as a what ?
Framedragger: their paper is certainly 2012
mircea_popescu: i have domains i registered pre 2000 i never bothered to use. i'd say link me, but...
Framedragger: also it's still around, but uses a cert that you (probably for good reason) hate
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i see 2015 archive.is
mircea_popescu: oldest item from them, 17 may 2015, https://archive.is/9CIuQ
phf: most of the lisp developers here know riastradh by his paredit, but he's otherwise a competent scheme developer
mircea_popescu: and otherwise, the website doesn't load, not for me not for archive.is
Framedragger: okay, look, their paper was published in 2012. people referred to it as "that 2012 paper". now it's possible all them people are sybils, but i'll go ahead and say that factorable came before phuctor.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i'll take your word for it. if i DIDN'T though, what steps could you take to enact this truth ?
Framedragger: loads for me. letsencrypt cert.
mircea_popescu: this is nice but...
Framedragger: web.archive.org/web/20121023082642/factorable.net
mircea_popescu: phf can you with not so much effort point out to me what netbsd anything he did ?
phf: i don't know anything about his netbsd work. i know him exclusively via scheme/lisp world
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: web archive says 2012, when i click its link it takes me to http://web.archive.org/web/20130310014945/https://factorable.net/ (note, 2013), but i think it's because there was no change between its first archived instance (23 oct 2012) and this 2013. anyway, no proof, sure
mircea_popescu: Framedragger tjhere is some skullduggery at work here, as that link redirects me to a 2013 item ( web.archive.org/web/20121023082642/factorable.net
mircea_popescu: anyway. this looks like an empty placeholder. i see nothing in there. can i verify any claim in any way ?
Framedragger: what answer did you expect? what kind of verification? it was around on 2012. offered a keycheck service. service no longer offered. raw data not available. "meh; but not stolen from phuctor" is my conclusion
mircea_popescu: 5.57%. this implies a sample of no less than 1795332 items (of which 100000 came out this way) because iirc 557 is a prime number.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger can i see the 2012 version of the verification service ?
Framedragger: hm. definitely not live, because it's not, you know, static. you wish to see the frontend?
mircea_popescu: i would like to see something. put you in my shoes and see what you'd like to see ?
Framedragger: ^ probably worth a peek. tls/ssh as input.
mircea_popescu: ah it tests against "our db of weak keys".
mircea_popescu: i suppose that's one way to go about it.
Framedragger: why the fuck did it tell me it had a 2012 snapshot if it's defo not available tho, lol
mircea_popescu: "The service will also report whether we have seen the same key in use in other certificates or served from other IP addresses, which can help identify default or repeated keys."
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, not super much
mircea_popescu: Framedragger because webarchive is worth trusting about as far as you can throw alexa, an amazon company, in the business of making up shit about the web since the 90s.
Framedragger: no argument :/
mircea_popescu: aaanyway.
mircea_popescu: thanks for indulging the mess.
a111: Logged on 2013-10-19 18:29 mircea_popescu: and phuctor is over 250 keys loaded now.
Framedragger: ah k, need to keep in mind. almost four years going, good stuff!
mircea_popescu: it wasn't much foir the first coupla though. as these things usually go.
mircea_popescu: well, the guy is evidently not in the mood to indulge, but let's try this. "<eightyeight> his "Is there such a thing as better or worse entropy ?" paragraph is equally as painful to read
mircea_popescu: <eightyeight> he clearly doesn't understand the differences between shannon entropy and entropy as defined by the 2nd law of thermodynamics
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> eightyeight what are the differences, for my curiosity ?"
mircea_popescu: anyone want to take a stab at it ?
mircea_popescu: !!up framedr
deedbot: framedr voiced for 30 minutes.
framedr: (server down for 'emergency maintenace'. yes will move to dedicated, no this is not acceptable, OP sucks dicks)
mircea_popescu: framedr eh take it ezzy :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the paper existed in '13 certainly, i read it. but the actual data wasn't public, then or now.
mircea_popescu: i believe.
mircea_popescu: i still think the item existed and was quoted in the dude's slides as a phuctor decoy and nothing more. this is not really something i can be talked out of through showing that a website wireframe existed ~same eyar.
asciilifeform: the funnybit is that it ~still~only exists in this form
mircea_popescu: well meanwhile it fell off [my version of] the internet.
framedr: (granted, bootstrap website is not the most amazing rigorous proof)
framedr: their root is one 'ISRG root', trusted by firefox as of 2016 it seems, but it makes a whooooolotta sense to tend to one's cert garden manually as mircea_popescu does. (then again, if it's all snakeoil anyway?..)
framedr: (i mean letsencrypt cert root)
mircea_popescu: for some reason it dun work on my systems and i dun feel like debugging it for them
framedr: owait, 'isrg root' is mozilla's root lol. i thought, third party. it's a root they created
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: good idea
mircea_popescu: nobody is going to take the entropy bait are they.
phf: hehe, i'd be surprised if somebody even attempted to.
mircea_popescu: i live a sad life of rum and solitude.
Framedragger: possibly mod6's earlier referred https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~chaitin/sciamer.html (chaitin!) is relevant, but not sure
phf: afaiu shannon's entropy being a probability is descriptive, rather than prescriptive. so it can categorize a sequence of events, but it can't really say anything about how those sequence of events come about. so i'm not entirely sure how it even applies to engineering problem of event generation..
mircea_popescu: can entropy in the physics sense predict anything ?
mircea_popescu: phf if it can categorize the events it necessarily can say ~something~ about ["the past","how they came about"], neh ?
Framedragger: isn't it a kind of probability of possible messages / possible states, given a message / given some system. can you really infer anything about "how it came about" (infer *any* info, in terms of probability or w/e)?
mircea_popescu: oh shit. turns out what the dude means is actually rather trivial, and also a rather ridiculous tribal misunderstanding of what shannon said etc. read the slides 8 and 9 of this dude's presentation.
asciilifeform: oh hey hey hey lbj!
mircea_popescu: basically this tribe thinks that what shannon entropy is, is when P takes value "hunter2" in 50% of the cases and a random in the remainder of cases and therefore this is "no good for crypto because i can guess what your password will be".
asciilifeform: it's the 'use /dev/urandom' d00d !!
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: and check out the "min-entropy" "best strategy" thing on slide 10.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-15 18:59 asciilifeform: in related lulz/disinfo, http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/
asciilifeform: but similar flavour.
mircea_popescu: they're like mere hairs away from coming up with an ideal compressor, these folks.
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with people.
asciilifeform: complete with link to 'factorable.net' in place of phuctor.
mircea_popescu: you sound like me now.
asciilifeform: after working as exterminator long enough, all rats begin to look quite alike
mircea_popescu: basically what happens is they hang out in these "professional" venues being "polite" and as a result they misunderstand something and it becomes a thing for them and then they end up in arguments with outsiders over it.
mircea_popescu: but yes, i agree there's a huge difference between "spit out string hunter2 half tyhe time" and entropy eh
asciilifeform: 'Can’t attain the security property against attacker who compromises the kernel, but some people worry about theoretically approximating it for some reason.' << this kernel fixation.
asciilifeform: i have devices with 0 kernel. e.g. FUCKGOATS itself.
mircea_popescu: gotta accept the framework alfie!
asciilifeform: is not a von neumann machine. doesn't have one inside, even.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648964 << ah shit i (in fact) just repeated phf, sorry lol
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 21:22 Framedragger: isn't it a kind of probability of possible messages / possible states, given a message / given some system. can you really infer anything about "how it came about" (infer *any* info, in terms of probability or w/e)?
asciilifeform: ( any other rng , available for love or money, where this is true ?? )
mircea_popescu: which can of campbell soup do you want president ? YOU DO WANT A CAN OF SOUP IN OFFICE!
phf: Framedragger: we're trying to say the same thing, but i don't think it's quite there yet
asciilifeform: also gotta love the 'slides' liquishit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform xilinx!
asciilifeform: where if you gotta paste, you gotta 'view src'
mircea_popescu: apparently the whole academic thing isn't very high with the contemporaneous crop.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: next rev of board will have, for lulzies, a not-xilinx
Framedragger: phf: seminar group! imma read shannon's orig paper realsoonnao anyway
asciilifeform: ( or possibly a fully 74xxxxized circuit, firmwareless. )
mircea_popescu: phf Framedragger there's actually a specific law forbidding your approach from prevailing.
asciilifeform: but fact -- current : no von neumann. no cpu.
mircea_popescu: xilinx could work as cpu in theory!
asciilifeform: could. somebody once posted a 1-instruction 4-bit cpu that fits in the xc64.
mircea_popescu: did it look like GoL ?
asciilifeform: nope, that'd need some actual memory
asciilifeform: ( you can get a few bytes in there, see fg.v )
asciilifeform: bytes, note. not M, not K.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha "kernel is totally deterministic" o brother.
mircea_popescu: i have been well entertained.
mircea_popescu: apparently there exists a dude named
mircea_popescu: !~google "thor lancelot" simon
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Thor Lancelot Simon - Panix: <http://www.panix.com/~tls/>; Thor John Lancelot Simon Inventions, Patents and Patent ...: <http://patents.justia.com/inventor/thor-john-lancelot-simon>; Thor Simon | LinkedIn: <https://www.linkedin.com/in/thor-simon-6253325>
asciilifeform: hey, if a... batman suparman . exists.
asciilifeform: why not this.
mircea_popescu: i never knew a simon could be so brave!
asciilifeform: !~google batman suparman
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Trending: Batman bin Suparman jailed in Singapore - BBC News: <http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24911186>; Batman Bin Suparman Jailed In Singapore | The Huffington Post: <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/11/batman-bin-suparman-jail-singapore-theft-burglary_n_4256565.html>; Internet Hero Batman bin Suparman Jailed For Theft, Drug Crimes: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall this was a lulz on ancient ed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform holy shit you're linked in there.
asciilifeform: waiwhere
mircea_popescu: check out last slide!
asciilifeform: that one gets linked quite a bit
asciilifeform: from various academitards, too
mircea_popescu: pretty lulzy.
mircea_popescu: in other "Riastradh> Design of RNGs for crypto is on-topic, though physical phenomona that lead to them is at the edge of the topic of this channel -- not because it's irrelevant but because it lies outside the area of expertise in mathematical cryptography one expects to find here." : "* andytoshi (~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi) has joined ##crypto
mircea_popescu: <andytoshi> how parallelizable is shor's algo? if i want to break 100 discrete logs is this much faster to do in batch than to do them separately?"
Framedragger: check out alf's javascript http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.js :) but yeah, good tool
asciilifeform: Framedragger: does it work on yer box ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: keys dun work, actually, but no matter. overall - works
asciilifeform: Framedragger: that was 1 of the 2 occasions where i wrote something in js
asciilifeform: Framedragger: http://www.loper-os.org/mwemu/mwemu.html << being the other.
asciilifeform: ( where i bet also keyz dun work any moar on 'modern' browser... )
Framedragger: ah, i remember the microwriter article. cool. hm yeah dun seem to work, on first attempt
Framedragger considers opening js console to check exceptions, but goes for tea to not ruin evening
asciilifeform: Framedragger: if you know how to make it work-everywhere without library liquishit -- do tell.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: might be able to. will do
asciilifeform: also check numlock
asciilifeform: ( last time i tried it, it worked on everything short of 'lynx' . )
Framedragger: asciilifeform: e.which more browser-agnostic than e.keyCode; in my case (firefox), e.keyCode is 0, expects e.charCode for $reasons. however, e.which will also work, and 'should' work everywhere except on very old IE. am not js expert tho, so, disclaimer
asciilifeform: Framedragger: test with/without numlock. betcha it worx as-is.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: did, with and without numlock. and the thing you're trying to catch in code (e.keyCode) is 0 in both cases. however, e.which is correct (and is more 'canonical' here anyway). but i'm on laptop currently; but that shouldn't make a difference
phf: asciilifeform: i did a thing
phf: ffa(64*18, Unsigned_64)
phf: (2 ** 1024) - 1:
phf: 00000000000000000000000000000001ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
phf: (2 ** 2048) - 1:
phf: overflow!
phf: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
asciilifeform: phf: plox to elaborate
asciilifeform: 64*18 is 1152 neh
phf: well, it's the correct result, nothing unexpected
asciilifeform: i was about to be excited.
phf: unfortunately it seems to work as expected
asciilifeform: congrats to phf for being first to build , btw. hats off.
asciilifeform: ( and i did not even post any example of use, much less a makefile. so we have here a fella who definitely does his homework ! )
phf: i decided to learn ada today
mircea_popescu: lol is that ffa implemented in slutty what's hjer name ?
mircea_popescu: ah nm, ada huh.
asciilifeform: the saddest thing about ada is that there is only one. ( only one properly-specified, multi-implementation typesafe language that can build for small (kB ram) as well as large systems . )
mircea_popescu: could have stopped at the "properly specified multi implementation" part
asciilifeform: because there is not and will not be commonlisp on a micro.
asciilifeform: nor on realtime (e.g. avionics) system.
mircea_popescu: ah, cl is properly specified multi implementation ?
asciilifeform: 1 of 2 . ( the other... ada. )
mircea_popescu: sbcl and what ? the google app engine abcl ?
asciilifeform: kyoto cl. clisp. franz. lispworks. scineer. (last one - i never tried, cannot say with certainty how standard-compliant)
mircea_popescu: let's let cmucl out to piss off people.
mircea_popescu: apparently there's a lot of them. /me is looking at cliki.net
asciilifeform: not so many (some, e.g. sbcl and cmucl, are 'blood relatives' )
asciilifeform: i wonder if there is any other language, than cl and ada, in reasonably common use today, that does not presuppose 8-bit bytes.
mircea_popescu: fortran ?
asciilifeform: which fortran'd that be
asciilifeform: g77 certainly is married to the 8bit byte.
mircea_popescu: fortran fortran. the 36bit word item
asciilifeform: them ain't bytes
mircea_popescu: what's your definition of a byte here ?
asciilifeform: the default quantization of memory.
mircea_popescu: oh i thought "the quanta of simultaneous operation"
asciilifeform: that'd be a machine attribute, not language.
mircea_popescu: i guess that;s a point.
mircea_popescu: besides, one doesn't regard 64 bits currently as a byte
asciilifeform: aha. because it isn't.
mircea_popescu: (no idea why not, they certainly thought 8 bits were a byte for the same reason)
asciilifeform: because it isn't the smallest operand on the box.
mircea_popescu: the etymology is afaik both deliberate and indicative : byte.
asciilifeform: microchip co's 'pic' lineup had systems with 12b bytes, 14...
asciilifeform: then of course there were the pdp
asciilifeform: there are boxes in orbit with weird (18b, say) 'bytes'.
asciilifeform: i am no pro trishop, but bible and koran both were silent on what System.Storage_Unit oughta equal...
mircea_popescu: all this being machine considerations anyway
asciilifeform: aha. except that if you go and try to build a c proggy for these, it will barf.
asciilifeform: married to 8bitness.
asciilifeform: ( and to characters-are-bytes-are-characters. we had this thread also. )
phf: very very naive exponentiation implementation http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9WPJT/?raw=true
asciilifeform: neato phf
asciilifeform: you wouldn't actually want the exponent arg to be 'Integer' tho
asciilifeform: given as it can go negative.
phf: aah
asciilifeform: this kind of thinking comes quickly with practice tho.
asciilifeform: 'what's the narrowest type this can be, and still work in all useful cases'
asciilifeform: also ideally it'd work in constant cycles. ( asciilifeform is still thinking, on paper, how to make shifts work in fixed cycles . )
asciilifeform: this is trickier than it appears, because you can't ever have a branch condition itself on a secret bit.
asciilifeform: major sin.
asciilifeform: ( and i will note, all -- afaik -- implementations of bignumtron, fail this litmus )
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648605 << Disappointed this convo did not get FUCKGOATS is the captain now pilot joak
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 16:45 mircea_popescu: these together mounted on say quadcopter suddenly are rather dangerous. for one thing, no way to intercept its comms anymore.
phf: Natural then
asciilifeform: phf: also FZ_Add(Result, Result, Result, Overflow); can be a shift, neh.
phf: hence very very naive! :D
phf: well, the whole thing can just be shift by exponent
asciilifeform: if exponent is 2**x, lolyes
phf: ...
asciilifeform: phf: your expt doesn't exponentiate, it (slowly) Shift_Left's.
phf: ....
asciilifeform: FZ_Set(Result, X);
asciilifeform: For_Loop:
asciilifeform: for I in Integer range 1 .. Exponent loop
asciilifeform: FZ_Add(Result, Result, Result, Overflow);
asciilifeform: if Overflow = 1 then
asciilifeform: exit For_Loop;
asciilifeform: end if;
asciilifeform: end loop For_Loop;
phf: it is not in fact phf who posted this nonsense but an adversary, a sybil attack is in progress!
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648755 << William James, James Joyce was a noted novelist and potato nigger
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 18:55 Framedragger: re. american who said sth interesting, i volunteer david lewis (the philosopher)! inb4 BingoBoingo's "only american philosopher was james joyce"
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648779 << Gotta be more specific, Alf presents Great Inca's Magic potato. Ripened with Glyphosate!
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 19:11 mircea_popescu: pretty much all that grows on the fertile soil of the red skin's plain is potatoe.
asciilifeform: hm looks like ze l0gz lose leadingwhitespace.
asciilifeform: ( phf's and Framedragger's both )
trinque: logs.bvulpes.com got it
asciilifeform: mighty spiffy.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 21:26 asciilifeform: after working as exterminator long enough, all rats begin to look quite alike
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1649111 << this however is the correct aproach, build the item entirely so as to avoid it.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 22:39 asciilifeform: this is trickier than it appears, because you can't ever have a branch condition itself on a secret bit.
mircea_popescu: rather than trying to bolt mitigation on side.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 22:46 phf: it is not in fact phf who posted this nonsense but an adversary, a sybil attack is in progress!
phf: asciilifeform: browser doesn't render repeat whitespace, unless you do <pre> but then, i believe, it doesn't automatically wrap lines
phf: never the the less, i put a hack that fixes the issue without using <pre>
a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 22:46 asciilifeform: FZ_Set(Result, X);
mircea_popescu: phf can pre style wrap something. but anyway.
phf: aah, pre-wrap
phf: probably better than injecting &nbsp; for >1 whitespace in a row...
mircea_popescu: possibly.
asciilifeform: over in the circus, EmmyNoether has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) << whod'vethunkit.
mircea_popescu: gotta dekulakize all value repositories!
asciilifeform: and omfg are these folx infested with leahs.
asciilifeform: they have major pest control problem. not even conibear, will help.
asciilifeform: incidentally BingoBoingo the conibears sprung many times ( and i tested with a stick, hair trigger, quite sensitive ) and caught 0.
mircea_popescu: unsurprising "ethereum applications"'d have popped up
asciilifeform: them beasts -- evolved, must be.
mircea_popescu: this has been such a fabulous goldimine. we thank teh new lord.
mircea_popescu: "A few years ago, there used to be a very easy way to optimize code. If you found out that your processor-heavy code was running a bit slower than you wanted it to, the simple solution was just to wait for the next hardware iteration, which would magically amp up the clock rate on the CPUs and your app would suddenly run faster."
mircea_popescu: ^ quoted from tutorial on "celluloid", which is QUITE the ruby... emerald. by some indian kid.
mircea_popescu: keywords : binary! morse!
phf: asciilifeform: if i have procedure foo(x in; y out), and i'm calling it with foo(a, a); is it up to procedure to ensure that y is not clobbered before x is used, or is it more that you don't call with a same variable in in and out?
asciilifeform: phf: perfectly legal to call with same variable as in and out.
asciilifeform: you will notice that it is why there is scratch var Ni in the shifters.
phf: ah, k
asciilifeform: so yes, up to procedure.
asciilifeform: phf: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/z16GS/?raw=true << tentative constant-time >wordsize-increment shifters.
phf: you overestimate the state of things here. i only just managed to ~actually~ get a working very very naive expt
asciilifeform: no rush
asciilifeform: it will work (in geological time) but work!11
phf: :D //
phf: what do i do with that loop_counter_overflow (technically underflow). it will never get triggered, but i feel like there needs to be some way to not leave it dangling. an assert of some sort
asciilifeform: pragma Unreferenced (foo);
asciilifeform: if i correctly understood what phf wanted.
phf: well, i want to also indicate that at the end of the loop the value must be 0
phf: though unreferenced is also handy
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3DCBAE5F39FC40A615FF096C435E18CA9B4979439EE287411F7E04208D62C928 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1291...8319 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.16.38 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.16.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE HE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3DCBAE5F39FC40A615FF096C435E18CA9B4979439EE287411F7E04208D62C928 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1216...9619 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.16.38 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.16.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE HE)
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-found-some-area-of-expertise-in-mathematical-cryptography-one-expects-to-find-here-and-there-plus-divers-spots-missed-while-shaving/ << Trilema - How I found some area of expertise in mathematical cryptography one expects to find here and there ; plus divers spots missed while shaving.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/04/27/introducing-the-tmsr-agricultural-supremacy-project/ << Bingo Blog - Introducing the TMSR agriCultural Supremacy Project
BingoBoingo: ^ Biggest announcement in agriCulture this year!
BingoBoingo: !~later tell shinohai http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/04/27/introducing-the-tmsr-agricultural-supremacy-project/ << This will offer content to feed your TMSR Journal Of Whoreticulture, pls to consider accelerating your timeline for the venue opening
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did i tell you about that time i grew the world's saddest eggplants ?
BingoBoingo: No you haven't
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/test-de-cultura-botanica/ << these are artichoke babies. they grew up great.
BingoBoingo: I do remember the artichokes
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo did i tell you about that time i grew the world's saddest eggplants ? << lol. last year, I got 1 out of like 3-4 plants. it looked more like a purple carrot.
mircea_popescu: yeah eggplant is hard.
BingoBoingo: mod6: Well good category to start is probably tomatoes. Growing process is well documented. As far north as you are "Early Girl" or similar may be your cultivar of choice.
shinohai: ty BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: growing epic tomatoes is possibly the most accessible gardening.
BingoBoingo: We had an inch and a half of rain Wednesday night and are looking at 5 inches over the weekend, so the Beefmaster was copiously fed in anticipation
mircea_popescu: i had a monsoon here four days a week since mid april.
mircea_popescu: it looks like at least 10cm rainfall.
BingoBoingo: Sweet corn and summer squash are other good candidates to consider, Lords are advised to consult their county fair's premium book to guide crop selection.
mircea_popescu: you know they don't do that here ;/
mircea_popescu: they have an onion festival.
BingoBoingo: I am pretty sure I mentioned nearby horseradish festival
mircea_popescu: o, how about chet's baby squash ?
BingoBoingo: very nice baby squash
BingoBoingo: Anyways the pest on the tomatoe leaf looks like some sort of scale insect of which there are many
mircea_popescu: aha. funny as all shit, one egg's growinfg legs.
mod6: BingoBoingo: oh yeah, my tomatoes do well. i did 22 plants 2 years ago, 10 last year. im most fond of the cherries & romas.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Persistent pest everywhere, some are defeated by soaps, others carbaryl
mod6: it's been raining non-stop here too.
BingoBoingo: mod6: At many fairs, those are two seperate categories you can enter
mod6: the mn statefair has some /large/ specimens
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in fairness i was never serious about it in the productive sense, more like an enjoyable passtime.
mircea_popescu: naked girls kneeling in the dirt and such,
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, there is also that. Not necessarily incompatible, naked girls can also kneel in dirt to pick the bounty.
mircea_popescu: yeah, just, eg never bothered to kill those guys.
BingoBoingo: At some point tomatoe grows to the point where it takes a substantial number of pests to be a problem. Anyways usually soapy water usually suffocates them and suds are generally safe for naked girlies
BingoBoingo: Few garden pest usually demand organophasphates to be oppressed.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't even bring myself to salt the slugs.
mircea_popescu: thenb again they mostly stuck to compost pile.
BingoBoingo: But when the farmers harvest the corn and the now hungry stinkbugs come, using nerve agents against them is fair
BingoBoingo: A good compost pile can be a wonderful diversion in that way
mircea_popescu: yeah srslty.
BingoBoingo: slugs and snails usually don't really care much for freshness
BingoBoingo: Anyways, idea of the project is that any lord who enjoys this recreation has ready opportunity to demonstrate their ability to dominate wherever they decide to turn their focus if they so choose
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/XXxWH << Pretty good overview of how these things get judged
mircea_popescu: in other news : ##crypto did 530/738 lines as join/part spam Apr 27 13:21:01 to Apr 27 21:26:05. the remainder 208 lines were 90% of the material and about 450% of the signal us. i think asciilifeform 's evaluation prevails.
mircea_popescu: if i one day actually wish to entertain adolescentine farts about "qc" or such nonsense ima just invite for dinner any of the bois oogling my women from a safe distance.
shinohai: I'm still incredulous that one guy is so hoity-toity he won't say FUCKGOATS
mircea_popescu: he dun wanna sully his soul
mircea_popescu: as that's the only soul he's got.
shinohai: I'm dying of a snakebite, but won't take any anti-venom called fucksnakes
mircea_popescu: shinohai that leg was holding you back!
shinohai goes back to filling his box with malicious entropy ....
mircea_popescu: aaron toponce (goes by eightyeight in that chat) has possibly the lulziest "gpg key signing" item i saw : https://pthree.org/my-pgp-key-signing-policy/
mircea_popescu: 1. let's make "government issued id" the underpinning of the pgp web of trust, because totally, what could be better or above the fiat empire du jour ; 2. key ids. because really.
mircea_popescu: and this is symptomatic of the sheer confusion OF EVERYTHING these fuckwits live in. "Personally, I will only sign keys if I have done at least casual checking or very careful checking. I will not sign a key if I have not verified the ownership of the key. This weakens the Web of Trust." and then eats up weak hashes and government paper. because why the fuck not, PERFECTLY coherent with his "careful" stance.
mircea_popescu: anyway. anyone seen that tox thing ?
mircea_popescu: dude's key is ancient and yet reported as submitted today
shinohai: Tox: "Please use our mailing lists or the Reddit forums for general user support. "
shinohai: no thanx
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: entirely possible that it wasn't in the orig sks dump
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was.
mircea_popescu: in any case it should have been, it's ancient, dude keeps signing others with it etc. "strong set" as they call it.
asciilifeform: can argue that should've been. but wasn't. or it'd show 2016 date.
mircea_popescu: yeah. weird.
asciilifeform: looks like latest copy, is simply same, but with new endorsers.
asciilifeform: so in fact we had it.
mod6: "we heard you like email, so we put some email in your email..."
asciilifeform: ( his modulus, that is. )
asciilifeform: mod6: aha, the shitfest gotta die.
asciilifeform: enough of the 'subkeys', 'endorsers', embedded photo (yes, makes for multi-100kB pubkeys) liquishit, devil knows what else.
mircea_popescu: for a moment there i almost thought there's something wrong with phuctor.
mircea_popescu: check that out, "oalug steering committee"
asciilifeform: plenty of room for improvement in phuctor.
asciilifeform: for instance : 0 orc glyph-bearing keys.
asciilifeform: needs full depythonization, it does.
mircea_popescu: really should just be stripped from C field.
asciilifeform: can't strip, hash won't match.
asciilifeform: and it happens long before it hits the c.
asciilifeform: python per se actually barfs on encounter.
asciilifeform: ( because it -- or at least python2 -- is married to 'string is 7bit ascii' )
asciilifeform: ( python3 was pushed as 'fix' for this, but -- as iirc described in mircea_popescu's www -- never actually worked. )
mircea_popescu: i've been contemplating the point of whether more than 1 in 1000 humans actually have need for electrical power.
mircea_popescu: to my shock the answer's not quite as directly obvious as one'd like.
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