Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-02-09 | 2017-02-11 → ↓
BingoBoingo: Apparently they premised a TV show episode around it
mircea_popescu: the problem with cultural appropriation as a content generation strategy is that it only works if there's a fucking culture in the first place.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: they 'modernized' a 'dr jeckyll and mr. hyde' or wut
mircea_popescu: ustards, ever smarter than the next ustard, managed to build this system whereby nobody has to do any work and everyone has hats through stealing the neigbour's. how the fuck that system's supposed to work is anyone's guess, but here we go :
mircea_popescu: averagetard excepts to crochet a culture out of what he sees on tv and tv expects to crochet programming out of averagetard culture.
mircea_popescu: the pain and suffering echo chamber resultant is supposed to come as a surprise i guess ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Anti-free will episode
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how's that wurk? i thought 'tulpas' were supposed to be specifically ~deliberately~ grown multiple personalities
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Grown, but subsumed original redditard
ben_vulpes: http://archive.is/idhye << to quote $wot, "try our reboot, new look, same great mongo, even more dick-holding"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0A10CB982E980E0891F0F2E0DB271AD78A0D6600BE5DB278F33A5EE762EF4506 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1433...4183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '69.150.209.248 (ssh-rsa key from 69.150.209.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US TX)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0A10CB982E980E0891F0F2E0DB271AD78A0D6600BE5DB278F33A5EE762EF4506 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1681...1437 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '69.150.209.248 (ssh-rsa key from 69.150.209.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US TX)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wtf is "parse"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: eldritch horror
mircea_popescu: oh mkay, "Clash of kings"
ben_vulpes: you know how mobile devs can't in2 servers?
mircea_popescu: apple spam"game"
ben_vulpes: it was
ben_vulpes: oh god
asciilifeform: why am i reading this, ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: to revel in others suffering ofc
mircea_popescu: lmao "sold as a package deal with fb advertising"
asciilifeform: i liked BingoBoingo's kunstkamer moar
mircea_popescu: you are reading this, asciilifeform , because in your head you imagine the empire works.
ben_vulpes: bezos does this thing with the timeshare where he'll keep a virtual instance image warmish and boot it when the rest of the system says "hey we got a request for that instance"
mircea_popescu: IT DOES NOT. it's not just that "traction - 1mn apps, largest with 40mn users" means ~same as zip
mircea_popescu: it's that the core parts of mordor infrastructure aren't even worth operating.
ben_vulpes: near as i can tell, and it tripped my retard alerts fast so i didn't invest much in determining how it works, someone used that to make a "database as a service" for mobiledevz
ben_vulpes: which to quasiquote mircea_popescu "what is even a native mobile developer"
ben_vulpes: anyways, it never worked despite facebook buying and trying to make it do so
mircea_popescu: "Technical problem I: complicated rate limiting. If limit exceeded by a factor of 60 for a minute, requests were dropped. Limits were tracked using a shared Memcache instance. Consequence: when developers experienced rate limits in the API, they added retries. The retries incurred enormous load in the Parse backend." <<< translation : "we are three years old. wut is dis ?"
ben_vulpes: and to quote myself in another channel, "soz for cynicism but if it looks like madness and a tower of abstractions written by frontend devs who don't in2 systems...it probably is."
mircea_popescu: these fucktards, unqualified to wipe their own drool, dare dream of "revolutionizing the way that..." ? wtf,
BingoBoingo: Anyways the alerts that feed the art room are varied https://archive.is/kSI0y
mircea_popescu: where's that cartoon about "hey guise, i heard about bitcoin/sex/eating/world yesterday, I AM HERE TO FIX IT"
BingoBoingo: On Trilema!!!
mircea_popescu: a right.
mircea_popescu: pity nobody reads trilema.
mircea_popescu: no dude, obscure service had 1mn apps of 40mn users each!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'apps' ain't 'the empire' tho, they're panem et circenses
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform facebook entirely exists out of spamming bs apple games.
mircea_popescu: it's pretty much that + "stories from around the web -- find out the secret glassblowers don't want you to know about how a mother of two in vincente lopez lost five kgs off her coffee mug each morning one weird trick!"
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612725 << "It also takes miners -- despite their state of the art equipment, access to electricity, and cooling -- increasingly longer to verify bitcoin transactions" oh get right the fuck out tell that to the myriad instablocks
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 02:38 shinohai: http://archive.is/oH9Gl <<< Cute, an Ethereum founder gonna fix Bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: "Parse Server •Server was Rails at first (with 24 threads max. concurrency) with very little throughput per server (~15–30 requests per second) •The server was later rewritten in Go. The open-source Parse server is written Node.js and lacks many functionalities of the original Parse server in Go." <<< holy shit, can you believe the idiocy ? "we wasted a bunch of money doing stupid shit because we truly believe"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ^^ is why you're reading this
ben_vulpes: because omfg the hilarity
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes listen, you're quoting a bullshit mfa trying to product place some inept dork. he did nothing ; is nobody ; random words in a string.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you want random words in a string, you shoulda seen the guy pitching "a cryptocurrency blockchain signature solution to the marijuana regulatory burden" the other night
ben_vulpes: buddy if you get crypto involved in your drug production it can only be to hose the state, but w/e
mircea_popescu: "Backend was completely on Amazon Web Services •It was planned to migrate Parse to Facebook’s infrastructure (e.g. Haystack, Tao, F4, Extended Apache Giraph, Gorilla) but the project was abandoned •Roughly 8 developers working on SDKs, 8 on the server, 8 DevOps + a few more engineers" <<< 1) no it was not "planned", fuckwads don't have mp certificate in planning, may not claim they are engaging in any planning. the prop
mircea_popescu: er term is "was butthole - to - nose - fingered". not fucking planning.
asciilifeform: all i see is buncha sad folx in penal servitude, for some peculiar reason spending their scarcely-existing free time writing about the wheelbarrows, the dirt, the scurvy.
mircea_popescu: and b) holy shit, 8 "engineers" ? kids with whispy chin-only beards stuffing their tongue up an asshole aren't engineers. they're kids with whispy chin beards stuffing their tongue up an asshole.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: wait 'till you get to "what it got right"
ben_vulpes: "the web ui"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except not.
ben_vulpes: "looks pretty, doesn't work"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha database "40 mongodb replica sets 3 nodes each"
mircea_popescu: who the fuck. seriously now. this made sense somewhere ?
ben_vulpes: "i.e. writes were confirmed before they were replicated"
ben_vulpes: anyone remember the "no seriously flush to disk" flag?
ben_vulpes: =====
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: proud tradition of penny-in-the-fusebox lives on!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> all i see is buncha sad folx in penal servitude, for some peculiar reason spending their scarcely-existing free time writing about the wheelbarrows, the dirt, the scurvy. << lol, when the weather warms up I may blog some on personal blog about wheelbarrows, dirt and anti-scurvy
mircea_popescu: "Slave reads were allowed for performance reasons" << check it out, apparently it's in the sql spec after all. even on mondoshit >D
mircea_popescu: "Partial updates were problematic as small updates to large docs got “write amplification” when being written to oplog" <<< aaahahahaha.
ben_vulpes: persistence is slow and competence expensive, what is a sv fingertrap author to do but eschew writes to disk and hire the lowest common denominator?
mircea_popescu: there's this film with that inept idiot from whatever cars film, the one with an adriano celentano like mug. he's supposedly the capo of this son-of-mobster inept douche and his main spoken line is something like "500. that's how many bla bla".
mircea_popescu: this is what the "8. engineers." makes me think of.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrB9pG10PZ4 << 8. 8 engineers. 8 skd guys. 8 dicks up my ass.
asciilifeform: prefer lockheed, ibm, 9000 engineers ?
mircea_popescu: 8. 8 engineers.
ben_vulpes: and my favorite
ben_vulpes: " if important customers lost data due to human error, Facebook engineers would manually recover it from periodic backups"
mircea_popescu: by now nobody actually has the faintest inkling of a clue as to how computers actually run. at all. whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: i am the fuck ahead of the 8 engineers, and i'm not even a coder.
ben_vulpes: you have to identify as "a coder" to even consider the stuff
ben_vulpes: coders support tool diversity, of course
ben_vulpes: get excited about things, support people.
mircea_popescu: "The object-level ACL system was highly inefficient. Numerours indexes were required that could sometimes surpass the actual data size by a factor of 3–4." << i guess i'm the only one with production dbs where the indexes are 90%+ of the whole thing ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i am not at all convinced that these folx individuated, and able to 'identify'
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong wit hthese people. the index to data factor isn't a benchmark of efficiency.
asciilifeform: they simply went to it, like 19th c irish emigre to the bottle and the railroad.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i think that's indices of just the acl 'tables'
mircea_popescu: now this is so.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ahaha WHAT
mircea_popescu: the unthinkable is unthinkable.
mircea_popescu: but... but how ?!
ben_vulpes: got a case of mongo. everything else follows.
mircea_popescu: they ended up with unbounded complexity in the "acl" system which really just happened to be the rug corner under which we brush everything we don't know how to do, didn't it.
mircea_popescu: i see it.
mircea_popescu: see, this is the thing with these idiots, you can hire 8 of them, and they'll happily go to work. on THE PARTS of the problem that they understand.
mircea_popescu: in the process creating a contorted mess.
ben_vulpes: sane and halfway intelligent folks refuse to touch it, so you're stuck with the dregs and their decisions.
asciilifeform: and hey if it's good enough for phd with haskell, why not plebe.
ben_vulpes: where "decisions" ===== "the code i produced that appeared to work a few weeks ago"
mircea_popescu: "As there was no mechanism for concurrency control (except for minimal support for things like counters), applications were often inconsistent" << then people wonder why us ships don't work.
mircea_popescu: "Parse did a lot of things right."
ben_vulpes: *drumroll*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ships still run win98, bit of a lag
mircea_popescu: documentation was great ? are they INSANE ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: not according to the DSMIX
mircea_popescu: !!rate felix gessert -10 irredeemable idiot.
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
ben_vulpes: part and parcel of the "damn the correctness, all attention to developer uptake"
mircea_popescu: http://68.media.tumblr.com/093b24e8470460bd1a280961dd3ebc52/tumblr_n4z5z76XCH1tauas6o2_500.gif << dirt is better than stupidity, in that when dirty chicks lick each other it can be kinda-hot.
ben_vulpes: neat bike
mircea_popescu: i imagine the conceit is they were working on it
ben_vulpes: "it'll work, eventually"
ben_vulpes: correctness is not a thing to bolt on after the fact.
mircea_popescu: no i meant chicks and bike
ben_vulpes: shit must work, first, because it was designed to work. touchy-feelie boob grabs come after.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, BingoBoingo have you ever messed with "biochar" as soil amendment?
ben_vulpes: gasified wood, notionally provides surface area for bacterial colonization and drastically reduces fertilizer/nutrient depletion
mircea_popescu: sounds like the sort of bs that works in the lab only.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do they sell calcinated bone as a fertilizer where you live ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: oddly enough comes from the "permaculture" wackjobs
mircea_popescu: that's the historical as well as correct solution for that problem. spread it out before a storm.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i can buy many industrial products, but am not particularly interested in more dependencies on plant-produced amendments
mircea_popescu: bone ash is pre-industrial. it's, for one thing, how china was traditionally made.
mircea_popescu: i'm telling you, if you somehow (which i doubt you did, but taking you at your word) decided your soil's problem is lack of bacteria substrate, then bone ash is what you want to solve it with.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck heard of this, wood structure. bacteria eats wood.
ben_vulpes: ~charcoal
ben_vulpes: nah what
mircea_popescu: nah it'd better not be charcoal.
mircea_popescu: holy shit it is.
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with people.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you stiumbled on a fine example of "spreading-works". do not add coal to soil you plan to cultivate.
ben_vulpes: 'tis not 'coal', but i'd appreciate a primer on why not
mircea_popescu: dumbest idea i ever heard. and oh look, wikipedia explains "it's under investigation for carbon sequestration". so they're going to get you to ruin your garden to make their meaningless metrics go the way the cult decided they must go. and someone somewhere is buying into this ?!
ben_vulpes: you gotta burn the gas off, so i have nfi where the "good for co2 metrics" comes from
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the microbiology involved is anything but settled. from the lengthy human experience on the topic, coal is a miserable substrate for a garden.
ben_vulpes: specifically not coal.
ben_vulpes: wood out of which one burns the various tars.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes charcoal is coal.
ben_vulpes: coal is not the hydrogen-rich rock dug from ground now?
mircea_popescu: "amorphous pile of mostly carbon"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no. carbon-rich.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes as a rough heuristic for this matter, if you were to be locked in a room, would you prefer the room contain a large lump of cake or a large lump of people ?
mircea_popescu: because plants aren't all that different in this respect. if you wish to add something to the soil, carbon's the absolute worst choice.
mircea_popescu: they get that from the air, not from the soil.
mircea_popescu: (guru meditation : whence does a tree's mass come from ?)
ben_vulpes: aight, next pile of nuttery to riddle: anaerobic composting of food waste
mircea_popescu: what about it ?
ben_vulpes: also hokum?
mircea_popescu: certainly not in thbat general form
mircea_popescu: i imagine they are trying to get out of smells ?
ben_vulpes: smells, turning, meat/dairy as feedstock to boot
mircea_popescu: mmm, that part is kind-of dubious, but i guess it depends on how your latrine's set up.
mircea_popescu: understand, the definition of septic tank / latrine isn't "where people shit", much like a fridge isn't "the hole in the kitchen wall food comes from". if meat goes in, then it's a latrine, nqa.
ben_vulpes: what might handicap the meat/dairy handling?
ben_vulpes: i have nfi re latrine design
mircea_popescu: bacteria that digest meat also digest people ; bacteria that digest plants (and dairy) don't.
mircea_popescu: why would you want to compost meat anyway.
ben_vulpes: complexity reduction in waste pipeline, ~
ben_vulpes: i suppose the smart thing to do is make a highly reduced stock?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: consider pig?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how about not buying more than you eat.
mircea_popescu: the correct way to handle meat waste is to beat the women.
mircea_popescu: slash children.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: even i can only scour so much off the bones
mircea_popescu: no system will ever compost bones. you need a furnace for that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: donthca keep dogz?
mircea_popescu: as teh national socialists found out recently.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have been thoroughly terrorized by the fud around passing bones to dogs
asciilifeform: waaiwat
mircea_popescu: eh get out, they'll be fine.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you had a defective dog that chokes on bone, wouldn't you rather know early on
mircea_popescu: but, dogs aren't bone eating machines. they just crack them to get to the marrow. you still get stuck with the bone.
asciilifeform: only thing that 'eats' bone -- is woodchipper
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: concern is more along lines of splintering and intestine perforation
asciilifeform: (and, as mircea_popescu pointed out, the finalsolutionatron)
ben_vulpes: i'd be satisfied if the bones were rendered unattractive to pests.
ben_vulpes: would rather not bifurcate waste handling streams if unnecessary.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is no convenient pill against bones, it is why archaeologists have with what to work.
ben_vulpes: as i said, uninterested in full breakdown.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes chicken bones are a problem for some (retarded) dogs ; otherwise notrly.
asciilifeform: does ben_vulpes still live in that shithole where they charge for rubbish pickup by the pound?
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder, what prompted this line of thought
mircea_popescu: you mean, "the civilised our democracy" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey i can throw out a concert piano!!1
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i doubt you actually get enough bones to make this worthwhile thinking about ; but if you do - make your own bone ash! put in garden!
mircea_popescu: from experience, once the pig farm goes over 500 heads, bone furnace becomes worth it.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you know how photosynthesis reduces electron energy by lowering its potential down gradually through a series of steps?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: burn'em with leather. --> cyanide.
ben_vulpes: i am reluctant to consign material from which i may yet extract $use to the public pit
mircea_popescu: so then carve the bones and sell at faire.
asciilifeform: flutes.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : in french shin and flute are the same thing. because... they are the same thing.
mircea_popescu: !~google fluierul piciorului
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Ce este fluierul piciorului Zice-ti-mi si mie repede va rog frumos Cine ...: <https://www.tpu.ro/adolescenti/ce-este-fluierul-piciorului-zice-ti-mi-si-mie-repede-va-rog-frumos-cine-stie-primeste-funda/>; Durere la fluierul piciorului - primul ajutor - ROmedic: <http://www.romedic.ro/durere-la-fluierul-piciorului-primul-ajutor-0P32405>; Fluierul piciorului - Dictionar medical - ROmedic: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: aka "the leg's whistle"
asciilifeform: eh if i worked with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612791 for a living, i would also consider carving bone flutes to sell at market as new career.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 05:27 mircea_popescu: "Parse Server •Server was Rails at first (with 24 threads max. concurrency) with very little throughput per server (~15–30 requests per second) •The server was later rewritten in Go. The open-source Parse server is written Node.js and lacks many functionalities of the original Parse server in Go." <<< holy shit, can you believe the idiocy ? "we wasted a bunch of money doing stupid shit because we truly believe"
mircea_popescu: especially if they were the shinbones of these idiots.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9EE551BF5B1DBE96D10E616076AA99A617A5A85B75B421486AB5FB5D92E1C07D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1073...1643 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '222.222.34.219 (ssh-rsa key from 222.222.34.219 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (219.34.222.222.broad.sj.he.dynamic.163data.com.cn. CN 13)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/19C43B3ED8DFC3082486D4AF9F155163615CBD5190C08BA313C14782022FB421 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1073...1643 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '60.213.15.140 (ssh-rsa key from 60.213.15.140 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 37)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/19C43B3ED8DFC3082486D4AF9F155163615CBD5190C08BA313C14782022FB421 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9263...7097 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '60.213.15.140 (ssh-rsa key from 60.213.15.140 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CN 37)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, google query : "am12ani și îmi bag lucruri în pizdă ce se poate întâmpla" (literally, "i am 12 yo and i stuff things in my cunt, what can happen")
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612714 << is handy, but i can't bring myself to replacing safety critical ssh with it. i've had plenty of opportunity to test it though, and it's best option for when you're trying to connect to server over a public wifi running over cell network off a generator
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 02:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: similar (i never used, however) is https://mosh.org
phf: i've not used it from a cellphone though, i don't grok the whole concept of a shell on a device without keyboard
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F8802484C5109A90F1ED7E2E851D0125507A67A1B71FC12DCE14DDD78ADF1DD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1561...1859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '40.135.8.211 (ssh-rsa key from 40.135.8.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h211.8.135.40.static.ip.windstream.net. US)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F8802484C5109A90F1ED7E2E851D0125507A67A1B71FC12DCE14DDD78ADF1DD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1426...8907 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '40.135.8.211 (ssh-rsa key from 40.135.8.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h211.8.135.40.static.ip.windstream.net. US)
mircea_popescu: aaaand in other "they won't fucking yield", check out jstolfi :
mircea_popescu: "To be fair, the economic flaws are mostly justified because there seem to be no technically sound way to fix them. For example, there is no incentive for Miner Mike to forward to Miner Molly the transactions that he received from Client Charlie. And there is also no incentive for Mike to forward to Molly a block that Miner Mary just solved and sent to him. Those flaws need to be fixed, but AFAIK no one has figured out a way
mircea_popescu: to do that that preserves bitcoin's design goal." (part a, which is correct)
mircea_popescu: "The biggest flaw is the fixed issuance cap. Ideally, to make bitcoin useful as a currency, the supply of BTC in circulation should expand at a rate slightly greater than the increase in the volume of payments, forever. Then the value of 1 BTC would slowly decrease with time. Then no one would want to hoard it. Then the value would be stable enough for use as a currency. There would be no bitcoin peddlers trying to get other
mircea_popescu: people's savings through misleading promises and "investment" funds. And so on." part b, which is lulzy.
mircea_popescu: basically, "bitcoin has clearly proven that what libertards thought they understood about money and finance is pure global warming claptrap, so in conclusion here's a restatement of the global warming claptrap and proposals to fix the world so it is more like the claptrap!"
mircea_popescu: phf what's the relevancy of the hardware details in the example given ?
mircea_popescu: (and of course, re part a, the idiots immediately reached their usual fecal consensus re the only known proposal for a fix, namely http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ )
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612959 <<< what's that correct bit? that the lack of incentive for miners to forward blocks is a flaw?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 13:59 mircea_popescu: to do that that preserves bitcoin's design goal." (part a, which is correct)
mircea_popescu: the olde miner-node problem yes
davout: as he formulates it doesn't strike me as a fundamental issue, the miner of a block ~is~ properly incentivized to broadcast it as widely as possibru
mircea_popescu: davout he stated it in the particular. there's no actual incentive for miner x to tell miner y specifically. which creates a very toxic situation, which then presents all of itself an incentive for cartelization.
mircea_popescu: basically the reason the state in the leviathan acception of statehood as commonly understood today EVEN EXISTS is the fear of early greeks that all the neighbours may get together secretly and ostracize them,
mircea_popescu: a purely female solution to a purely female problem.
mircea_popescu: the much more obvious "beat all females until they all stop whining" being "off the table" for incomprehensible "reasons".
davout: and in other news, french citizens are now legally permitted to read the logs
mircea_popescu: hey, france is like the 5th trilema reader or such.
mircea_popescu: i had no idea they could read like, languages.
mircea_popescu: (to revisit the beatings : beating both mother and daugther for misbehavious by either mother or daughter is the historically deployed and theoretically correct approach ; what the "red pill" dudes call "branch swining behaviour" in their AWALT booklet is both proof this is so and its direct result - it selected over the years for a certain thing, the anthropological concept of "female community")
mircea_popescu: "Most institutions which have undergone a lengthy cultural evolution, such as law (which lowers vulnerability to violence, theft, and fraud)," <<< i gotta say, the ubernaive reinterpretation of reality in the hands of armchair nonviolent "scholars" is endearing. to be plain : law ENTIRELY exists so that the concept of forest may be enforced without the depletion of the villages.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612970 << he's talking about forwarding yet-mined transactions, not blocks
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 14:20 davout: as he formulates it doesn't strike me as a fundamental issue, the miner of a block ~is~ properly incentivized to broadcast it as widely as possibru
mircea_popescu: that's how it appeared, and that's the only thing it's for.
mircea_popescu: as everyone ever involved is aware and occasionally points out, "the reduction in violence, theft, and fraud is incidental to the protection of the royal forest".
mircea_popescu: suddenly i don't need to explain why all "police" resources are expended to fight "war on drugs" even as kitty genovese dies in a pool of her own blood. cia wants drugs as its own domain, what.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: No biochar experiments, composting meat breeds clostridium, and the way to dispose of bones is bleaching them in the deser sun and selling to tourists
davout: adlai: "And there is also no incentive for Mike to forward to Molly a block that Miner Mary just solved and sent to him."
adlai: oh sorry, that line got pebkaced. it seems wrong though, shouldn't a miner want to both increase the amount of work the others do (validating the new block), and reduce the chance they have to do reorg work?
mircea_popescu: you are an idiot ; go away.
mircea_popescu: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the fake news apparently believes australia === malcolm turnbull ; even as it firmly believes usa != donald trump. how the fuck is it that committing the usg to liberating australia from the unwelcome and illegitimate socialist leadership is to be confused with "war on australia" ? when they invaded europe it was "war on hitler" not "war on europe"
mircea_popescu: and in the same vein, "The judges’ vote is a major political blow to Mr Trump, whose early days in power have been characterised by a difficult relationship with the judicial branch of government."
mircea_popescu: really ? they'll take it to the supreme court ; which is understaffed, and will conceivably deadlock 4-4. this will also be a blow to trump ? why, because it is strictly impossible for the weimar republicand its institutions to be perceived as ineffectual and effete ?
mircea_popescu: it's a blow to the justice system more than to trump. but hey, the pantsuited opposition can't possibly consider things, so therefore they can't possibly exist.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612961 << instead we have 'GIMME your savings through inflation because we HAZ RIGHTS!!!1111' lel.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 13:59 mircea_popescu: people's savings through misleading promises and "investment" funds. And so on." part b, which is lulzy.
mircea_popescu: he'll simply abandon it at that point, except discoursively, and it'll forever be "hey i tried to fix things but the swamp wouldn't let me". in any possible strategic evaluation of the situation, the best outcome for trump is exactly what's happening.
asciilifeform: 'aite, go make your own inflationary alt-idiocy like 1,001 people before' 'NO WE HAZ RIGHTS, we NEEDWANT ~bitcoin~'s stored fat'
mircea_popescu: quite exactly that.
mircea_popescu: but hey, it's ok, because it'll be an improvement. according to themselves. consensus! hurr!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if mr.t raised the banner, i suspect there would be plenty of folx, in particular army, who would happily string up judges, berkeley 'professors', j00yorktimes journarasts, etc.
asciilifeform: but apparently he isn't made of the correct stuff
mircea_popescu: this apparently is very early.
mircea_popescu: first he has to get them to "win" and proclaim their victory pluriously. then they hang.
asciilifeform: (not mega-discovery, and not my original observation) nobody strings up officials while store shelves are full.
mircea_popescu: he's working on that.
mircea_popescu: oh bonus points : moving us embassy to jerusalem. such lulz.
asciilifeform: this was iirc first proposed under reagan, and i still have nfi why
mircea_popescu: because of the fuck you symbology.
mircea_popescu: oh, check it out, they're losing fallujah
asciilifeform: for 9,001st time ?
asciilifeform: or hm that was mosul
mircea_popescu: yeah, different item.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/zBYEJ/?raw=true << in other recent lulz. usg tried, by the usual freisler court, d00d who supposedly leaked stratfor pw. now going after ~donors to his legal fund~
asciilifeform: ( who conveniently used a spampay and now conveniently trackable )
mircea_popescu: "13. Donor No. 1 satisfies the requirements to sue anonymously."
mircea_popescu: fancy that wonder.
asciilifeform: it's a civil suit, will probably last five seconds or so in front of usg magistrate (ianal)
asciilifeform: and can say whatever it likes
asciilifeform: (linked text, that is. civil suit ~against usg~)
mircea_popescu: no actually it looks pretty contondent.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, in a very much unrteported move, frankfurt got 300 tons of gold from new york.
mircea_popescu: bout 13bn worth at current prices
mircea_popescu: (for the new people : the historical reason for which german gold was stored on another continent has everything to do with the fulda gap, and the sad experience of about 100-150 tons of romanian gold + an order of magnitude more in paper that was magically lost in russia)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, how long before someone raids a us stockpile, surrounds say seattle with a bunch of davy crocketts and ... fires ?
mircea_popescu: could make for some pretty entertaining daytime tv.
mircea_popescu: all those pretty lights.
asciilifeform: if only these still worked
mircea_popescu: how would they have stopped ?
mircea_popescu: 1960s weapons, rugged and none of that pussyfooting. if it's fired, it explodes.
mircea_popescu: they're probably still stored somewhere due to the fact they're hard to defuse by design.
asciilifeform: iirc these were traditional, not thermonukes, so if they have not been recycled or misplaced -- still oughta work!
mircea_popescu: 5ksv for a quarter mile radius.
asciilifeform: though you would have to be quite tired of living to set it off as shown in the picture
mircea_popescu: no shortage of folk tired of living.
asciilifeform: (radius of nukeage being slightly higher than the weapon's range)
mircea_popescu: nah, iirc they went up to 4km
mircea_popescu: hence seattle. put it up on a hill, fire at the city. should get the 4km out of it.
mircea_popescu: quarter mile radius should be 20 city blocks or so. even in a moderately dense area should provide a healthy 20k or so new cases of cancer within 12 months ; bout half of which leukemia.
mircea_popescu: even without obamacare that's a 10ish bn extra expenditure on the welfare state.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612963 << mosh works over udp, and mitigates latency, dropped packets, and interrupted connection all the way to doing transparent roaming, so benefits are only seen on hardware in question: can still do useful work even over very dodgy connection
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 14:01 mircea_popescu: phf what's the relevancy of the hardware details in the example given ?
phf: in fact i tested it from nearby Huatulco, mexico, and it was sort of like batched processing. type a bunch of things, wait some time and eventually get feedback, but i had very poor luck with ssh
phf: so hardware was literally that
mircea_popescu: personally i'd rather directly hack into the local cable networks than resort to wifi over cell tower bs.
mircea_popescu: then again, personally i'm not much for wilderness.
phf: there aren't often local cable networks. at least judging by number of microwave relay towers where i am now, and their frequency, that's all you get.
mircea_popescu: i spent my time in veracruz, other side of the place.
phf: that does look neat, i'd like to make my way to south america at some point. most south i've been is costa rica
mircea_popescu: imo chiapas is the best part of mexico. spent a very agreeable week in palenque drilling the confused hordes of usian girlies searching for spirituality or w/e the fuck.
mircea_popescu: but even that aside, the amber civilisation is fascinating on its own.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1613027 << i was waiting for that. first article i open mentions that the gold is there to put it out of moscow's reach, mentions european financial troubles and the lack of trust in trump in three paragraphs. almost can admire the fuckers, sort of like reading particularly gnarly piece of soviet propaganda
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 16:28 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, in a very much unrteported move, frankfurt got 300 tons of gold from new york.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, inept hack trying to culturally appropriate soviet times (without citation, OF COURSE) - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/10/donald-trump-president-comedy-snl-satire
mircea_popescu: phf word.
thestringpuller: "After further investigation, it turned out that the two AIs were communicating using a novel symmetric key cipher, and the key that ended up being uncrackable by the third AI was simply '12345', the kind of password an idiot would have on his luggage."
mircea_popescu: phf palenque is in the southernmost state of mexico (chiapas). what, like 100 miles from your spot.
thestringpuller: permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply
thestringpuller: ugh copy pasta :( sorry
mircea_popescu: an' veracruz is like, right next to oaxaca, on the atlantic rather than the pacific side.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: old snore
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i can't help but picture you on a box with 6 months of old reddit browser tabs...
thestringpuller: Maybe if log search was better ;)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if every production of usg academitardia were chewed apart in the l0gz, no hdd would suffice to hold'em
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1613048 << you get ~all of this for free JUST BY DUMPING TCP
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 16:49 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1612963 << mosh works over udp, and mitigates latency, dropped packets, and interrupted connection all the way to doing transparent roaming, so benefits are only seen on hardware in question: can still do useful work even over very dodgy connection
asciilifeform: srsly almost ANY protocol built on top of raw lossy packet, even with one hand tied behind your back, ends up beating the shit out of tcp.
mircea_popescu: more seriously : it does seem freenode's screeching ever closer to its use-by date.
mircea_popescu: we'll have to have a gossipd sooner rather than later.
asciilifeform: i'ma probably release 'g' some time before month is out.
asciilifeform: fwiw will be my first 100%-adatronic product here.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E91DC57E0574612D57B8AD9F8478A1D3E5BD112419FFC8B1D93437C710E2762E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...5537 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '159.90.170.100 (ssh-rsa key from 159.90.170.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hal.labc.usb.ve. VE A)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E91DC57E0574612D57B8AD9F8478A1D3E5BD112419FFC8B1D93437C710E2762E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1756...4863 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '159.90.170.100 (ssh-rsa key from 159.90.170.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hal.labc.usb.ve. VE A)
asciilifeform: '¿Qué es El Laboratorio C? El Laboratorio de Electrónica "C" es una dependencia adscrita a la Unidad de Laboratorios de la Universidad Simón Bolívar, cuya función principal es la de prestar colaboración y servicio para la realización de trabajos experimentales de docencia, investigación y desarrollo, tesis de grado y el mantenimiento de equipos, en el campo de la electrónica, telecomunicaciones, control e informática.'
asciilifeform: Hasta Siempre, Comandante !
ben_vulpes: g soon? color me excited
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: temper the excitement, it's a parachute, not a plane
ben_vulpes: lifting bodies are neat!
ben_vulpes: besides, paraplane is a+ garage flugenice
trinque: I'd settle for not liquifying on impact
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: in random weblulz, "With Silk, you can publish your data online, beautifully. Upload, visualize, publish and share your data in minutes." point in case : https://archive.is/IZ9JK
thestringpuller: opened link. well played.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've never seen "assertion failed" before.
asciilifeform: i get a 'Not Found (yet?)'
thestringpuller: oh. i thought that was the joke.
mircea_popescu: a second.
mircea_popescu: apparently it doesn't actually save errors properly.
shinohai: http://archive.is/6VuvE <<< Natural selection at work.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 19:36 mircea_popescu: and in other fake news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/831cf472f27f8c52432f08e92c636bf5/tumblr_nqqhafDdQU1qgojnyo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: shinohai the chick in the strip robbery looks reasonably hot.
ben_vulpes: "illegal smuggling and trafficking of humans" is all over that thing. would otherwise be a huge victory for the nonprofits pushing that line, except for how it's donny t doing it
ben_vulpes: (also baby steps towards federal gendarmerie in form of "better coordination of law enforcement")
mircea_popescu attempts to install steam, teh saga. 1. website only offers "most recent", no link to history, nothing. most recent of course wants libc6 > 2.15 because fu user.
asciilifeform: aaaahahaha runs on 'linux' sure.
mircea_popescu: 2. /me finds http://repo.steampowered.com/steam/archive/precise/ after some fishing, because hey, fu user!
mircea_popescu promptly discovers that all versions past 1.0.0.24 refuse to install without libc6 > 2.15
mircea_popescu: whereas prior versions claim all dependencies are satisfied, and then SILENTLY DIE
mircea_popescu: because "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found"
mircea_popescu: apparently they contain dependencies they aren't aware of. how does this happen, clumsy drepper hand edited them post facto ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: post strace of the silently-die ?
mircea_popescu: then, 1.0.0.22 depends on "libpixman-1-0" > 0.24.4-1
mircea_popescu: then 1.0.0.22 depends on "libjpeg-turbo8"
mircea_popescu: then 1.0.0.20 depends on "libjpeg-turbo8" i mean
mircea_popescu: and so on following.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's only silent in their idiotic gui perspective ; otherwise if you run it like sane people in cli it barfs as quoted.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the glibc6 thing was a quite deliberate bomb to lock out users of old debians and similar
mircea_popescu: and before that the libjpeg nonsense ?
asciilifeform: they depend on it
asciilifeform: typical poetteringola.
mircea_popescu: basically open source isn't.
asciilifeform: well you were running a closed proggy neh
asciilifeform: which, for some perverse reason, was dynamically linked
mircea_popescu: no dude, it's like, on reddit. and our democracy. what do you mean!
asciilifeform: (for all that has been said re winblowz, at least this is yet-unknown there)
mircea_popescu: the perverse reason is quite evident : they don't want to pay akamai for downloads.
asciilifeform: actually that probably isn't the reason (the crapola all summed, weighs, what, a few MB.)
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 05:43 mircea_popescu: "Parse did a lot of things right."
asciilifeform: reason is that 'modern' gcc WON'T statically link, without contortions
asciilifeform: (which contortions -- is familiar subj to more or less everyone here)
mircea_popescu: ie, it's not ACTUALLY WORTH IT for valve ; because they're trying to cater to the imbeciles whoi "but mp, what do you mean mpex seats cost!" and those... have no money.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha keeping around 'support' monkey, to answer mail from 'IT DUN WORK!!11' whiners, costs something
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can still deliver a full package, if you're actually serious about being serious.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they don't.
mircea_popescu: that went away long, long ago, with google.
mircea_popescu: basicallyt the great success of the FOSS was that corporations used them to spearhead cost reductions. no longer is there any need to, for instance, offer any support. they're open source! except not.
asciilifeform: incidentally it is quite debatable imho whether a 'linux box' with closed-turd gpu driver is in any useful sense a linux box.
asciilifeform: to begin with.
asciilifeform: regardless of which libc you have.
mircea_popescu: this isn't a theoretical discussion. i'm not about to upgrade libc.
asciilifeform: well noshit.
mircea_popescu: i don't care "whjat this says", it's not fucking fashion.
asciilifeform: but pointing out that the 'camel's nose' already long ago entered on any box where running, e.g., 'steam', is contemplated.
asciilifeform: not much steaming to be had on ye olde matrox.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, about half their games are actually from the matrox period.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you find that they are playable on a box with soft-emulated ('mesa') gpu, i will be pleasantly surprised
mircea_popescu: some, yeah.
thestringpuller: Linux was just a placeholder to transition to SteamOS.
thestringpuller: ironically there is still no steamos box
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/zcash-sinks-after-bug-induced-chain-fork/ << Qntra - ZCash Sinks After Bug Induced Chain Fork
asciilifeform: ahahahahahaha
asciilifeform: the idiocy with the 'we threw away the magic master key, we PROMISE!!!!'
BingoBoingo: Indeed
mircea_popescu: wasn't it of the future ?
BingoBoingo: of LULZ!
mircea_popescu: ah ah right
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Anyways if you want to promote "the right" bacteria in your dirt just grow legumes and do the whole crop rotation bsns
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: b-but free energy from the soil timecube
asciilifeform: btw i finally realized that gcc (and consequently all known GNATs likewise) deadcode elimination is entirely broken.
asciilifeform: and it is not difficult to figure out who broke it, and why.
asciilifeform: (same folx as were responsible for 'prohibiting' static linking. see, if no dynamically-linked crapolade in process memory space, AND deadcode eliminated, then ROP will be quite painful to arrange !!)
asciilifeform: !#s ROP
asciilifeform: !~google ROP
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Facts About Retinopathy of Prematurity ( ROP ) | National Eye Institute: <https://nei.nih.gov/health/rop/rop>; Retinopathy of Prematurity | National Eye Institute: <https://nei.nih.gov/health/rop>; Retinopathy of prematurity - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinopathy_of_prematurity>
asciilifeform: (not an esp. good one, but apparently there is not such a thing as a good one)
asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: (in short: if somehow -- through whatever means -- enemy can nudge the instruction pointer, it has to be nudged ~somewhere~. if stack is not executable, or he cannot put anything useful there, the next best thing is a kind of 'junkyard wars' consisting of ~what is already loaded into your process's address space~.)
ben_vulpes: magical
asciilifeform: it is old, old hat, a good chunk of usg 0day-hunter daily sweat, consists of subj.
ben_vulpes: i can imagine; seems miserable.
ben_vulpes: i wonder what the 'tacoma narrows' moment looks like for intel and friends.
asciilifeform: how do you picture this, ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: intel's a crown-owned affair, effectively, it can only perish together with the crown. like, e.g., 'elektronika' did.
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, wind blows, bridge rips itself apart.
ben_vulpes: i am spectacularly unqualified to opine as to how it might happen this time, so i wonder.
asciilifeform: even terrible semiconductors typically are quite durable -- so this is unlikely to play out literally
ben_vulpes: quite impossible to play out literally, lol
asciilifeform: consider, fdiv bug did not end intel; the 1,000,001 remote 0days did not end microshit.
asciilifeform: or pinto -- ford.
mircea_popescu: or eight years of hussein bahamas the democrat party ?
mircea_popescu: it does fail eventually.
asciilifeform: brands die, idiocies -- less often. they'll rename it, and hum along
asciilifeform: in east usa there is an infamous cable tv&modem monopoly, 'comcast', it renamed itself to 'xfinity' to fool idiots into 'ooh NEW ISP!'
asciilifeform: it worked.
mircea_popescu: the truth is after eight years of monkey in chief they're scarcely capable of anything but monkeying about. the dem party that lost to bush is such a sad memory for the democrat party of today. like 50yo sinatra to 90 yo sinatra.
asciilifeform: ~same people
mircea_popescu: so now they want to discuss whose ties are bad, who has bathrobes, and whether trump cares or doesn't care about the latest saturday night live.
asciilifeform: (clinton clan was not dispatched from mars just this year)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile gramps goes along with the charade, "for as long as they think i watch tv, what can they break"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much not same people, no.
ben_vulpes: the trifurcation of media, white house proclaimations and social media drivel compared to the last administration is very interesting
ben_vulpes: last eight years everything was this tightly dialed drumbeat of unified talking points
mircea_popescu: and most amusing - they thought that's a show of strength.
mircea_popescu: and you know, "civilisation", "appropriateness" "responsibility" "awareness" etcetera.
mircea_popescu: obama fucked the left more than it fucked the us ; left them utterly incapable of mere survival.
ben_vulpes: these days, everyone watches twitter to see how donny's going to respond to something happening on the teevee, while he waves the red cloak of nordstrom or even just "make america great again" (which i fucking die laughing every time he tweets that phrase naked), while the white house press bureau releases some very well-written copy on "failure(s) to enforce sovereign duty"
ben_vulpes: duty/responsibilities
ben_vulpes: plus that master stroke of "anti human trafficking" + instantiation of the gendarmerie-as-municipal-officer-coordination-office recently
ben_vulpes: verily, we are impressed
mircea_popescu: and consider -- he's selling the supreme strength of NOT having a bunch of these useless dorks employed as... a weakness.
ben_vulpes: "useless dorks" aka social media mgrs?
mircea_popescu: no, white house experts / aides / wash dc denizens
asciilifeform: betcha all of their pay doesn't buy ~one~ discounted-f35
ben_vulpes: is he really selling that so hard? looks more like the organized organs of the left are pushing that angle and he's not fighting it terrifically hard, because why bother
ben_vulpes: in *entirely* unrelated lols, it turns out that various tribal security directives are to "use ms products and keep all data on local disk because we don't trust cloud because obvious tool of ministry of wtf." meanwhile, it dept struggling to wrap heads around how all of their files ended up on the ms cloud.
ben_vulpes: obvious conclusion that ms is also wholly owned subsidiary of ministry of wtf has apparently not yet occured.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Problem is soil timecube is rounded. For srs. Just get a bunch of peat moss while you can along with composted cow manure, and a few 5 gallon buckets full of generic 10-10-10
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no, he's selling it soft. but it's getting bought, in oodles, which ios what matters.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Other decent substrate is softwood bark composted to consistency of smooshed chocolate cake
BingoBoingo: Also aero/hydro-ponics are for the poor (i.e. stoners)
BingoBoingo: Anyways, what'c the native soil like in your parts?
BingoBoingo: And how long dies it take water to drain out of a void 2 feet deep and 2 feet in circumference?
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 17:24 thestringpuller: Maybe if log search was better ;)
asciilifeform: https://www.skynet.ie/~caolan/Packages/callcatcher.html << obligatory, apparently, 'what you want exists, so what if it dun work at all'
asciilifeform: srsly forfuckssake if routine cannot be JMP'd into, i want it GONE FROM THE MOTHERFUCKING BINARY
asciilifeform: (and before anyone asks, CFLAGS = -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections LFLAGS = --gc-sections does nil)
a111: Logged on 2017-02-11 00:27 asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: it is in every set of docs from past 20 years, and does jack shit.
asciilifeform: 'This problem can't be appropriately solved with a linker, particularly not the GNU linker. GNU ld can only throw out sections, not unused functions or global variables; so if you've got a file containing 10 functions, 9 of which are unused, all ten will still get linked.' << for the imbecility museum
phf: i thought that was the case since forever, last time i asked a question why gcc can't tree shake (10 or so years ago) i was told that i don't understand..
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EDF58C157F19F56ED0FF3F23767C3D0AEF9AFCAF9A39796BD2D4447505F83DA9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1362...0797 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.144.106.242 (ssh-rsa key from 83.144.106.242 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (83-144-106-242.static.chello.pl. PL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EDF58C157F19F56ED0FF3F23767C3D0AEF9AFCAF9A39796BD2D4447505F83DA9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1496...6703 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.144.106.242 (ssh-rsa key from 83.144.106.242 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (83-144-106-242.static.chello.pl. PL)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-11#1613177 << http://phrack.org/issues/49/14.html (classic paper, in logs), then http://seclists.org/bugtraq/1997/Aug/63, then http://phrack.org/issues/58/4.html, then you can apply for a job at NSA, since that's basically all you need to know :p
a111: Logged on 2017-02-11 00:24 ben_vulpes: ROP?
asciilifeform: phf: rop is the bread, there is also the butter of actually nudging instruction pointer (stack/heap smash, overflows, etc) but sure.
mircea_popescu: seems the only approach is to simply not include not used functions.
mircea_popescu: static linking doesn't work ? ok then, i import the source.
mircea_popescu: take linking out of it altogether
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually how the heavy industrial realtime ada folx do it. fork the standard lib.
asciilifeform: and then gnatelim does the job.
mircea_popescu: yep. and it's both very v-ish and unbeatable.
asciilifeform: the annoying part is that there is no reason at all why i should not be able to do this TO AN EXISTING BINARY
asciilifeform: to make, say, auditing more practical.
asciilifeform: or for whatever other reason.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. can;t win them all.
asciilifeform: the info is ~there~.
mircea_popescu: if you don't have the binary's source, let's say you're holding smoke.
phf: same as "no reason" why can't have byte equivalent binary from multiple compilations
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have the bins, with symbols, dwarf debug tags, etc. and this is a transformation i can do by hand in, say, ida. but the only reason i even have to think about it is that gcc is MILITANTLY stupid and gloms in trivially provably unused routines
mircea_popescu: gcc is militantly stupid.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/79A7E0D4EF15DF0C782F08A1B3750DF77C60678A90DDE5806C8C654E34CD31A5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1453...7203 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.113.180.101 (ssh-rsa key from 195.113.180.101 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ PR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/79A7E0D4EF15DF0C782F08A1B3750DF77C60678A90DDE5806C8C654E34CD31A5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1494...6039 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.113.180.101 (ssh-rsa key from 195.113.180.101 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ PR)
phf: holy fucking shit, i'm doing cursory google searches on the subject. "tree shaking gcc" results in all javascript articles. google helpfully expands gcc to "google closure compiler"
mircea_popescu: google is useful.
phf: Searches related to tree shaking "gcc": angular 2 performance benchmark
mircea_popescu: "there's a difference between what you want and what you need ; and google will insistently, relentlessly give you what you want"
phf: "nice trust, hacko, back to your mines"
phf: *try
asciilifeform: phf: set 'verbatim' mode
asciilifeform: (then enjoy the ~0 results)
asciilifeform: http://www.open64.net << one of the few actual competitors of gcc (started life as sgi's compiler, published openly, retargeted to x64) VANISHED
asciilifeform: (if archive.usg is to be believed, it disappeared from the net some time between march and june of 2015)
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