Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-02 | 2016-03-04 → ↓
danielpbarron: ;; later tell trinque please to add http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ to deebot blogs
assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Like drivers, crash-test dummies are becoming obese ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9Kqz6 )
BingoBoingo: Mayo privilege is being able to travel to places your body doesn't fit https://i.imgur.com/E4B4rOh.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32215 @ 0.00056611 = 18.2372 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27351 @ 0.00056936 = 15.5726 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: More Empire of Fee-Fees https://archive.is/HHUeo
assbot: Algebra II has to go. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QNdwOw )
BingoBoingo: “It’s not the same,” I told him. “Reading fiction builds empathy.”
phf: well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity
phf: dana goldstein her husband andrei scheinkman, andrew hacker and his "domestic partner" claudia dreifus, just leave these names here, for the log
phf: *leaving
phf: andrew hacker wrote an opinion article in the new york times in 2012 where he did a test run of this idea, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-algebra-necessary.html
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1VRYfA8 )
BingoBoingo: Seriously though, where does this "citizen statistics" come from?
BingoBoingo: How do you get statistics without Algebra?
phf: "It could, for example, teach students how the Consumer Price Index is computed, what is included and how each item in the index is weighted — and include discussion about which items should be included and what weights they should be given."
phf: "I hope that mathematics departments can also create courses in the history and philosophy of their discipline, as well as its applications in early cultures. Why not mathematics in art and music — even poetry — along with its role in assorted sciences? The aim would be to treat mathematics as a liberal art, making it as accessible and welcoming as sculpture or ballet."
phf: ^- that's how
BingoBoingo: mathematics in music is called musical theory and already a class sequence
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00056611 = 25.9561 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class
phf: speaking of ballet, i went to see Mariinsky Ballet company perform at jfk center, place was packed, tickets were sold out months in advance, cheapest of them >$100. the company comes to u.s. once a year, brings one production, performs for one week. they are masters of their craft, with rigorous, brutal training regime and a demanding director. and it shows! meanwhile "accessible" american ballet is by and large mediocre, using
phf: "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2473 @ 0.00056625 = 1.4003 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: how the fuck is ballet accessible
ben_vulpes: ballet is 'start when you're five and dedicate your life to it and 95% of you will fail to accomplish anything in the art even after doing so through your mid twenties at which point your body will be ruined and your mind will have forgone all education in pursuit of the art"
ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
ben_vulpes: serra, pardon
assbot: Richard Serra - October 27 - December 23, 2009 - Gagosian Gallery ... ( http://bit.ly/1oR9WfK )
ben_vulpes: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/richard-serra-in-the-qatari-desert << another point on the 'what is art' curve and discussion
assbot: Richard Serra in the Qatari Desert - The New Yorker ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRan9R )
cazalla: evenin'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00056752 = 19.9767 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00056726 = 15.9967 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15419 @ 0.000567 = 8.7426 BTC [-]
assbot: Mosul dam engineers warn it could fail at any time, killing 1m people | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21JqgxB )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00056694 = 24.095 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19950 @ 0.00056751 = 11.3218 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.12911122 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $900 before Sep 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1251/bitcoin-to-top-900-before-sep-2016/#b8
assbot: In 1998 this webcam woman was the most famous person online | Dazed ... ( http://bit.ly/1UB7HK0 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00056752 = 16.8553 BTC [+]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 9.99990000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b136
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )
asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking transparency besides empowered
asciilifeform: attackers?'
asciilifeform: ^ for some reason i thought it was obvious that bitbet ~did~ win from publishing actual, live bet addrs
asciilifeform: (shows that the thing is actually real, in real time)
asciilifeform: now the root of the matter is, the miners do not particularly relish being publicly called the vermin they are. and if they weren't specifically taking aim at tmsr, they will at some point work up the nerve, and do so. 'whatchagonnado about it.'
asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.
shinohai: "Bitcoin was designed and is intended to work with anonymous addresses" <<< but thought addresses weren't completely anonymous anyway.
assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
assbot: Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9J5IK )
deedbot-: http://danielpbarron.com/feed/ added.
deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] Hello world! - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/hello-world/
deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] A Minor Problem - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/a-minor-problem/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34823 @ 0.00056611 = 19.7136 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00056611 = 1.5285 BTC [-]
hanbot: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420258 << or just as well, mp attacking a specific cartelism.
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 16:58:23; asciilifeform: d bet money that there is some peculiar mpbism that is being exploited here.
assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1oRQmA4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21750 @ 0.00056751 = 12.3433 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
mircea_popescu: soo s.mg report edited to include deedbot link.
mircea_popescu: i think that's how warrants etc are going to go from now on. deedbot ftw.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420789 << it is pretty lulzy, in a meta sort of way.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 05:50:02; *: BingoBoingo not sure if Qntra worthy, anyone got an angle? http://news.softpedia.com/news/sea-pirates-hacked-shipping-company-to-find-valuable-cargo-501268.shtml
mircea_popescu: holy shit sherlock, hey BingoBoingo check out slashdot comprehending things!
assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1yHqf )
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 14:55:04; kakobrekla: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 < aha
assbot: Incident Raises Concerns About a More Formal Spec For Bitcoin - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1zhUQ )
jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
mircea_popescu fights the urge to skip ahead in teh log.
jurov: or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?
jurov: even then, the trashing would make the machine unusable for a ~hour
jurov: so, it's there for a reason.
mircea_popescu: "It drives dropout rates and is mostly useless in real life. Andrew Hacker has a plan for getting rid of it." dude, seriously ?! "stem myth" ? that place is so set for greatness. and i mean greatness literally.
mircea_popescu: jurov wow, what the hell is in those 10gb ?!
mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
mircea_popescu: "Only mathematicians and some engineers actually use advanced math in their day-to-day work, Hacker argues—even the doctors, accountants, and coders of the future shouldn’t have to master abstract math that they’ll never need." [and could one day use to find out some unsavory facts about the best possible castle in the world!"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 06:50:55; phf: well, that was a rabbit hole of progressive insanity
jurov: mircea_popescu: ask google
mircea_popescu: like in that joke with the drunk and the samovar. you know it ?
mircea_popescu: ;;google largest three items on chromium profile by ram
gribble: Chromium (web browser) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)>; Out of memory handling - The Chromium Projects: <https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-docs/out-of-memory-handling>; Hard Drive filling up? Check Chrome's File System folder - gHacks ...: <http://www.ghacks.net/2015/06/24/hard-drive-filling-up- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: you see jurov, google is next to useless for any purpose that involves having taken algebra II. all it can do is help you build empathy.
jurov: and i did not profile it, just looked on top output
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420800 << it's not "statistics and citizenship" as anything but "this is what you must believe about statistics to be a citizen".
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 06:56:42; BingoBoingo: How do you get statistics without Algebra?
mircea_popescu: sort-of trying to chinese cartel the electoral process, pretty much.
jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
mircea_popescu: "you can have your own opinions, but we want to move from this situation where harvard & mit lied to you about you being smart enough to resolve any real word conondrum 'if you just got the facts [as officially branded facts by harvard and mit]'" to a much more economical "you can have your own opinions just as long as they're what we say they should be".
jurov: so it's prolly the same with chromium's javascript engine
mircea_popescu: centralization of opinion mining being inevitable, given that the problem of university financing is irresolvable. (see for instance http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2016#1413495 thread)
assbot: Logged on 23-02-2016 08:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-02-2016#1413406 << basically us "college" chumpatron still experimenting with "what's the lowest qty of candy bar we give the cattle to keep getting the sweet sweet usg funds for them. like, out of the 100k per capita we get in fed funny money, what's the least we could dole out to the maggots in whose name the whole scheme is run ? maybe -100`000 in paper and $
mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?
mircea_popescu: i'm just curious for my own culture here.
jurov: yes, surely all the HTML5 and older(like DOM) functionality
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420806 << ironically, the shit they're talking about is some of the harshest, least touchty feely shit out there. ballet, seriously ? have these people EVEN SEEN a ballerina in their life ?
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 07:07:25; BingoBoingo: It also spots a lot of failures enrolled in class
mircea_popescu: chick's tougher than coffin nails, right in there with the she-marine. heck, they still use beatings to this day to loosen the girlies up.
mircea_popescu: like it or not, the tendons won't give unless you get physical. you can talk yourself hoarse, it dun do anything.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << cascadia coming to the mp notions of "What is art" i take it ?
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
jurov: now something for lisp afficionados: https://gitlab.com/embeddable-common-lisp/ecl/issues/225 #TheShitJurovDoes #BackdooringEulora
assbot: this simple function always segfaults - at least on linux amd64 (#225) · Issues · Embeddable Common-Lisp / ECL · GitLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1F3WH )
jurov: i came around this in course of embedding lisp in eulora client
jurov: such backdoor would be very convenied, dontcha think
mircea_popescu: jurov dude you trolled me ? i mistook eul- to be a function defined in eulora space pinged DianaComan about it lmao
jurov: *convenient
jurov: hahaha
mircea_popescu: god damn...
mircea_popescu: jurov apparently it was already reported. kochmanski says 159 (fixed 16.1.2)
mircea_popescu: LAME SHIT
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420851 << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners...
mircea_popescu: ftr anacam was as close to driving culture as the times and potus aspire to be and occasionally manage.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:06:36; mircea_popescu: they got one for asciilifeform too : http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8825949&cid=51627895
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420867 << it's a laptop, i don't care if it takes a week
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:13; jurov: asciilifeform: wake me up if you manage to compile chromium in 3G ram. the linker eats 10G. i have 12G here and must log out and terminate most processes and then emerge it.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:07:49; jurov: or do you have some $secretsuperfast swap device?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420874 << does mircea_popescu remember what happens when you use a profiler ?
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:09:58; mircea_popescu: since you have the profiler right there (do you ?) mind sharing like, the top three things on the stack ?
mircea_popescu: shush, you.
asciilifeform: (10-50x runtime & space)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420876 << many children cry into books, this is normal. but now there is 'advocacy!11111'
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:12:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420794 << certainly makes a very strong argument for beating into a pulp any children found crying in their math books.
mircea_popescu: let them cry into their fiction books like normal people.
mircea_popescu: romanian school has a whole curricula in literature dedicated to making the kiddies cry. this is well and good and the ~only way.
asciilifeform: i recall,
asciilifeform: !s fefeleaga
assbot: 17 results for 'fefeleaga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fefeleaga
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:11; asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47661 << interesting
jurov: re: duplicate bugreport.. perhaps i envied you being target of lizard hitler pranks, and imagined myself finally being targeted
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:17:37; jurov: just for the record, there are several projects built on top of llvm (cling,clang,clasp) promising C++ interpretation and easy interop with lisp. i tried to build and use these, not one succeeded and they are so behemoth so any analysis of the problem was out of the question
mircea_popescu: which one of you has the miserably poor taste of impersonating the dead woman ?
asciilifeform: i was wondering about that ^
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420894 << the thing is larger than just about any os, possibly even microshit's, and who the fuck knows or whether it is even knowable.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:19:06; mircea_popescu: jurov is it actually the js interpreter that takes up the bulk of that ?
mircea_popescu: no but on second pass this is actually correct, isn't it. ~I~ have been breaking the protocol with that design, indiscutably.
asciilifeform: quite possibly most of it is not even identifiable mass.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you seen this ?
kakobrekla: seen what ?
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1TULYvP )
kakobrekla: yes i have seen it, nothing i can do about it.
mircea_popescu: so basically, yeah bla bla, miners can force "either doublepay or never pay" dilemma, but ~not on everyone~. only on derps who, like mp, actually publish the whole story.
mircea_popescu: listen kakobrekla can we modify the way bitbet works to actually satisfy this ? something like
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they can still blacklist addrs
mircea_popescu: say paid out bets are published as now, but proposed bets only show first 4 chars of the address, and only first two digits of the payment. except if under 0.01 it's just replaced with D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, publish a sha of the whole list as-is somewhere on page also. so people can then verify at tyhe end.
mircea_popescu: tho prolly this should have a secret salt also.
mircea_popescu: jesus cryptomoney is tough.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whichever they happen to dislike.
asciilifeform: problem remains unsolved
mircea_popescu: as the commenter says, this does nothing for bitcoin, merely for bitbet.
mircea_popescu: of course large payments remain a problem - not so many double digit btc moving around to an address with the following 4 chars.
asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.
asciilifeform: i can think of 1,001 variations on this theme.
mircea_popescu: as usual - centralist power is the enemy of free commerce.
asciilifeform: the solution to toddler-with-machinegun is not moar armour.
mircea_popescu: who knew how fucking deep in the rules of the world this principle is baked
kakobrekla: i find the comment from 'sturle' much more interesting.
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1K9lD )
mircea_popescu: no argument that it ~could~ be a so and so node. all sorts of things could be all sorts of other things. like the moon landing photos could be fake, and so on.
mircea_popescu: there's no argument to be had with a could.
mircea_popescu: !up sturles
sturles: HepP!
mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot sturles
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user sturles: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sturles | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sturles/
mircea_popescu: you have enough trust, whenever you want to speak here you should pm assbot "!up" and decrypt the dpaste.
mircea_popescu: give it back to him with !v <contents>
sturles: OK!
kakobrekla: i asked him to join to answer the questions from qntra
kakobrekla: >If you are proposing that you are actually running a node which keeps all 0-fee txn for a week plus, I very much would like to know what machine are you running, and when's the last time you realised what an incredible DoS mechanism this is.
sturles: I don't keep them all. Only the ones with the highest priority.-
mircea_popescu: so how long is the longest you keep a txn ?
sturles: I don't have a time limit.
mircea_popescu: so then how does A2 have a lower priority than A1 ?
sturles: Transactions are evicted by fee or priority alone.
sturles: It doesn't matter if A2 has higher or lower priority than A1. As long as A1 is in my mempool, a tx spending any of A1's inputs will be rejected.
fluffypony: and "Galvin" Andresen
mircea_popescu: sturles if you keep 0fee txn without time limit, you are necessarily running on a machine with infinite ram.
mircea_popescu: if there IS a time limit, what is it.
sturles: Right now my mempool has: "mempoolminpriority": 142186611.6926576,
mircea_popescu: and how do you calculate the priority ?
sturles: Which means that every tx with priority below 142186611.6926576 will be thrown out of the priority pool, and into the fee based pool.
mircea_popescu: and if it's a 0fee tx, thrown out altogether ?
sturles: Standard priority calculations. size of input * age of input for all inputs, then divided by the size of the transaction.
sturles: Size in bytes.
sturles: Size of inputs in BTC.
mircea_popescu: right. by this calculation, the tx in question would not have remained in your pool.
mircea_popescu: if you recall kakobrekla at the time it was merely broadcast and "not yet included" (in the public version of the blockchain), it had a very low priority.
sturles: 0 fee tx are thrown out if the priority is lower than what is required. Currently 142186611.6926576.
kakobrekla: why would it have low priority?
mircea_popescu: sturles this one was never 100mn.
sturles: OK. I don't know anything about the tx in question. How old were the inputs?
sturles: Size in BTC is in satishi. Age in number of confirmations.
sturles: *satoshi
kakobrekla: txid de9bc173174f5ae97e7fe0d2e171647cade189c76f9cbe48f37494c973aca2e4
sturles: priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes
kakobrekla: and just sum the discrete inputs ages ?
mircea_popescu: no, sum the product
sturles: The transaction has one 3 month old input of 15.898 BTC. This alone may be enough to push the priority high enough.
kakobrekla: anyway, sturles is giving us his current mempoolminpriority, which doesnt mean it was the same a week ago.
mircea_popescu: yeah but for practical reasons doesn't also vary too much, or you get drowned.
mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.
mircea_popescu: ie, 84% of txn in the mempool had a higher priority.
mircea_popescu: of the ~50mb mempool, that is.
sturles: Mu mempool is 1 GB with 300MB reserved for high priority..
mircea_popescu: (obviously because no protocol there is no actual definition of "mempool size" other than rough consensus, but wehartevers)
sturles: It isn't full now, btw.
mircea_popescu: yeah, mempool is low now for some reason, across the board.
mircea_popescu: since ~yesterday, fell of a cliff. who knows.
sturles: There was a spam attack, which stopped.
mircea_popescu: that ~could~ be the explanation, sure.
mircea_popescu: for the curious, mempool was as high as 80mb during february, but recently it's ~8 or so.
mircea_popescu: (recently ie, in march)
sturles: Where is this number from? Mine is:
sturles: "size": 41322,
sturles: "bytes": 424008174,
sturles: "usage": 913135280,
mircea_popescu: sturles from my own nodes' estimation of what the "mempool" is currently.
mircea_popescu: built on the basis of what other nodes advertise as txn
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla haha is that yours ?
kakobrekla: its what 'tradeblock' reports
mircea_popescu: check that out, "TradeBlock serves financial institutions with execution and analysis tools that capitalize on the potential of blockchain technologies."
sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amount of them..
kakobrekla has to run bbl
mircea_popescu: it's a cheap hack, made sense at the time
mircea_popescu: (2010 ?)
sturles: Back in 2010 there was no eviction in place. Valid transactions stayed in the mempool until mined. Various eviction strategies have been tried for the last couple of years.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall when this "3 day" thing got introduced, but longer than coupla years ago i think.
deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/03/the-laymans-guide-to-salvaging-bitcoins-in-the-era-of-chicom-miner-monopoly/
mircea_popescu: !up sturles
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you're curious, what trb is contemplating to eventually do is a ring buffer with a per-kb fee only as the criteria.
mircea_popescu: been discussed a coupla times in the logs.
sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
mircea_popescu: also miserably implemented, but then again it is prb.
sturles: There is no priority included in the calculations for mempool eviction in 0.12.
mircea_popescu: right, there is that part.
mircea_popescu: i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw im getting report yes ?
asciilifeform: as soon as i get back into cockpit actually.
mircea_popescu: cool deal.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
asciilifeform: why not continuously.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:42; mircea_popescu: yea, but none of the elegance of a ring buffer
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:46:21; mircea_popescu: i mean i just said, i'd take 5k for cash right now.
mircea_popescu: two leaf clovers, don't get too excited.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421047 << the mempool system is screamingly idiotic, since day 1
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:34:37; sturles: By default Bitcoin Core will evict transactions which has been in the mempool for more than three days. A bad idea, because those will just come back from a node which had the transaction for less than three days, but since transactions paying a fee lower than the -minrelayfee threshold are throttled most low and 0-fee transactions will be kept out for most of the time. I'm sure there are an infinite amou
asciilifeform: incidentally, wtf does prb think it's doing re: tx fee ordering, when it ACCEPTS MOTHERFUCKING ORPHANS !??!!!
asciilifeform: srsly, orphan-with-fee counts the same as real-thing-with-fee ?!
mircea_popescu notices BingoBoingo's sig starts with ADD
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shush you, it's not supposed to make algebra-2-sense. it's from the statistics-and-citizensheep textbook.
mircea_popescu: do you feel included yet ?
asciilifeform: envaginated.
mircea_popescu: strangely, that doesn't seem to ever count.
mircea_popescu: somehow, the fact that any system trying to "include everyone" necessarily excludes the best and brightest is never a concern.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is with these idiots. "oh, there's fewer of those" o ya ? guess what - there's fewer of niggers and jews, also.
asciilifeform: uncle al beat this subj to death.
asciilifeform: !s officially sad
assbot: 3 results for 'officially sad' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=officially+sad
mircea_popescu: so he did.
asciilifeform: anyway it's in the collected al.
asciilifeform: riotously.
mircea_popescu: i claim no ownership interest in the notion. it's so outrageous a tree somewhere in the forest prolly said somethingat some point.
asciilifeform: in unrelated nyooz, i happen to have carried out a successful experiment re: depoetteringization of a modern gentoo
asciilifeform: will assemble, some time next week prolly, a cookbook, if anyone is interested.
asciilifeform: should also be, theoretically, applicable to bsd
asciilifeform: or any other 100% source-based animal.
asciilifeform: if it is not clear, i am speaking not simply of systemd removal, but dbus et al.
asciilifeform: the whole tumourous affair.
mircea_popescu: o yes please.
asciilifeform: in such a way that the ports tree remains untangled, and the crud is not constantly knocking at the door to come back in.
mircea_popescu: i will have the harem hum your nick during sex for a week in recognition.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet
mircea_popescu: i think i'll wait for the whole thing ?
asciilifeform: it took a good bit of sweat, to derive this kill list.
asciilifeform: and it works. 100%.
asciilifeform: trinque, ben_vulpes, phf, et al ^^
mircea_popescu: yay. will defo test it. say when to do so.
asciilifeform: now use flags only function under gentoo. but the way they work is to translate into particular configure args when building
asciilifeform: and so could be, theoretically, used on bsd
asciilifeform: or a future v-based distro.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can test now. everything else install per handbook.
asciilifeform: (but eschew grub2.)
mircea_popescu: so rather than a preliminary it's actually the thing ?
mircea_popescu: !up sturles
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is the chicken in the recipe, yes.
sturles: asciilifeform: Because it takes some time to do it for large mempools, I suppose. I think child fees are taken into account as well, but not sure about that.
asciilifeform: whole thing would consist of a step-by-step cookbook.
asciilifeform: but this is really all ~i~ would have needed.
mircea_popescu: sturles what was that otp thing ?
assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QnOBny )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the given magic will take you to, e.g., fully-functioning x11 emacs, irc clients, etc. that build sans dbus.
sturles: My gmail key is signing only. Not useable for encryption. Made it just for #bitcoin-otc.
asciilifeform: even wwwtrons.
mircea_popescu: sturles that's kind-of a problem then, you can't voice here.
sturles: asciilifeform: getrawmempool true reports for every transaction: descendantcount, descendantsize and descendantfees, indicating that it at least knows about it.
asciilifeform: sturles: what is this about ?
mircea_popescu: apparently his wot key is defective, can't decrypt assbot pad
sturles: 18:09 <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421058 << why do this in bursts ?!
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 16:44:12; sturles: 0.12 does eviction based on fee/kB. When the mempool is full, a large share (half?) of the transaction will get evicted and a minimum fee ratio to get included will be set.
asciilifeform: sturles: what do you mean, 'at least knows about it' ??
sturles: I should change my key in #bitcoin-otc to the sturle@bitmynt.no key..
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu the gentoo was tested on a x60 tp.
asciilifeform: which is now very happy.
sturles: It knows about the fee rate of the children of unconfirmed transactions.
sturles: Helps for child-pays-for-parent in mining.
asciilifeform: sturles: holy fuck, do you understand how a tx that is not linkable to ACTUAL BLOCK is a ~work of fiction~ ??!!!
asciilifeform: !s orphan tx
assbot: 10 results for 'orphan tx' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=orphan+tx
mircea_popescu: fucking evil bs, child pays for parent, let's invent OTHER ways to import meaningless state into bitcoin and fuck it all up
sturles: If a transaction pays too low fees to get included, and you spend an output of the transaction with a high fee, a miner may want to mine both.
asciilifeform: sturles: you do not see the basic problem with taking a tx on faith ?
asciilifeform: for whatever purpose.
mircea_popescu: maybe if wot-ed nodes...
sturles: People spend unconfirmed outputs all the time. Bitcoin Core even does it by itself, if the output was generated by yourself.
mircea_popescu: sturles yes, and THAT IS A BUG IN PRB.
asciilifeform: sturles: trb WON'T ACCEPT a tx with even ONE unconfirmed input.
asciilifeform: do you know this ?
asciilifeform: i did this.
asciilifeform: try to understand WHY.
sturles: We are not talking about orphans here, since we have the parent in the mempool.
asciilifeform: if it is in the mempool, it is not a parent !
mircea_popescu: this argument has some merit, but it's really contrary to bitcoin.
asciilifeform: it is a fetus.
asciilifeform: it might BECOME a parent, ~when it grows up~
sturles: Well, you may call it a fetus. A miner can choose to give birth to both in the same block.
asciilifeform: (gets in a block.)
mircea_popescu: yeah, a miner might choose to do all sorts of patently idiotic shit.
mircea_popescu: this is part of the problem.
asciilifeform: sturles: for 'mights', go to a church.
asciilifeform: trb does not deal in mights.
mircea_popescu: that we allow the miners to do way too much stuff.
sturles: It is in the design. As long as the order is correct (perent before child in the block), it is accepted.
asciilifeform: sturles: do you know what an ~algorithmic complexity attack~ is ?
asciilifeform: allowing chained tx to operate as a unit, in a node, opens you up to one.
asciilifeform: in fact this is happening EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DAY
sturles: Yes. It isn't verey complicated. Really. As long as A is found before B in the blockchain, the order is AB. Even if A and B are in the same block.
mircea_popescu: this nonsense is not long of this world, sturles
sturles: I am not saying it is the right way to do it, just that it is how it is.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to write a sane specification for bitcoin that avoids saying specifically "if input tx is not found in a block, tx is invalid"
mircea_popescu: yeah, some noncompliant miners are currently doing this, among many other insanities they do.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-february-2016-statement/
asciilifeform: sturles: it is pointedly NOT 'how it is' in trb.
asciilifeform: i killed this idiocy with my own hands.
mircea_popescu: no argument there. but it is not ok merely because some idiots do it atm.
asciilifeform: and it's staying dead.
asciilifeform: the miners are free to collect clumps of tx off the street and find, at their own idiot expense, validly linked chains thereof.
asciilifeform: but they do not HAVE to.
asciilifeform: they are doing this for no particularly good reason.
asciilifeform: could far more easily declare, as trb does, 'tx is only valid if inputs are confirmed in existing block.'
asciilifeform: and it would have been proper for the protocol to forbid the lunacy by proclaiming that a tx cannot rely on inputs IN SAME BLOCK AS IT.
asciilifeform: but this was not done, because satoshi smoked dope.
mircea_popescu: not too late for that, either.
asciilifeform: this is called a complexity vulnerability, and presently i search for these, elsewhere and far away, for a living.
sturles: It isn't that complex. The uxto set is updated as the block is parsed. The inputs of the sibling will be in the utxo set when it gets to it. It only makes some optimizations somewhat harder.
asciilifeform: sturles: you do not know what computational complexity refers to ??!
asciilifeform: 'it isn't the complex' !?!?!!
asciilifeform: that is a thing that one can say about an algo now ?!
asciilifeform: now i am tempted to say to client, when he asks for theta, 'it isn't that complex'
mircea_popescu: eh simmer down eh
sturles: Yes, and I don't think this is much more complex than requiring each utxo to be in a different block than the one it is spent from.
asciilifeform: !up sturles
asciilifeform: see, requiring inputs-in-old-blocks makes verification O(1).
asciilifeform: tight-bound.
asciilifeform: not doing so, gives you a worst-case of O(N^2) !
asciilifeform: (every shot requires you to look at every other)
asciilifeform: this would be an 'academic' matter, were it not for the fact that the enemy is making full use of it.
asciilifeform: for ~6 mo. now.
asciilifeform: !s spamola
assbot: 6 results for 'spamola' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spamola
sturles: No, the order must be strict. I.e. the the parent must be confirmed _before_ the sibling.
sturles: If the sibling is _after_ the parent in the block, the block is invalid.
asciilifeform: sturles: how does your node decide if a tx is to be relayed ?
asciilifeform: (assume signature is valid)
sturles: I use normal rules for relaying transactions.
asciilifeform: what does this mean ?
sturles: I haven't looked closely at the code. My node behaves like any other node would. Except it keeps a part of the mempool protected from fee based eviction based on priority.
asciilifeform: sturles: i recommend to look at the code, you're in for some surprises.
trinque: asciilifeform │ mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet << neato. -pulseaudio is another good one
trinque: (nobody cancelled dmix!!!111!!!)
asciilifeform: trinque: it doesn't try to slip in
asciilifeform: largely because everything that uses it, gets killed by the flag set shown.
trinque: nice
asciilifeform: ultimately, a sane linux - to the extent such a thing is physically possible - will look like a gentoo with a vtronic portage.
asciilifeform: where, e.g., mircea_popescu can go, 'emerge ben_vulpes' and get a set.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> what does this mean ? << that he's using prb and never looked inside for sheer horror
mircea_popescu: it's what it usually means when someone says they're using "normal" anything in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: o shit, the very next line!
mircea_popescu: hey, i swear i hadn't read it when i said.
assbot: Gentoo Stage1/Stage3 Building: Fact -vs- Fiction ... ( http://bit.ly/21H9eDG )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00056611 = 4.7836 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 07:09:35; phf: "experimental" forms to compensate for lack of rigour.
pete_dushenski: made me long to see a real ballet. i think i'll wait until the royal winnipeg is in town next.
trinque has dated two ballerinas
trinque: the ones that take it seriously are *jacked*
pete_dushenski used to dance ! lifts were a pubescent boy's dream cum true.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420812 << hahaha i had this exact same debate with fillie at guggenheim bilbao over serra's 'the matter of time'. she fucking hated it, i defended it, but probably to play foil as much as anything. this was a few years ago however, though i do still see his works once or twice a year in toronto's pearson airport ('tilted spheres'). i will grant them their ability to bre
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 08:53:24; ben_vulpes: and i don't want any more fucking scultors enough people already look at sera and say "oh herp derp i can make shapes with plate steel"
pete_dushenski: p a space both visually and auditorially.
pete_dushenski: as ever, he with the gold calls the shots as to 'what is art'
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420965 << in my experience, as detailed in latest contravex, this can be worked around.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 15:58:36; asciilifeform: and say they blacklist anything previously appearing as payout on bb.
pete_dushenski: granted that it's a bit of a pain, and also granting that it's hardly a scalable solution, it does do the trick.
pete_dushenski: this doesn't improve bitbet's position, nor its aims for transparency, but normally transacting users who previously received 'tainted' coins do have recourse.
asciilifeform: worked around ?!
asciilifeform: for one thing, the ~existing~ bets have addrs published.
pete_dushenski: i'm not discussing bets that haven't been resolved
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it remains trivial to track down and target the addrs ~from~ which bb pays out.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420833 << not sure how transparency was 'unthinking' but i had largely the same train of thought last night as i was composing 'salvage' piece (ie. hashes, first few characters).
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:12:31; asciilifeform: 'You think Bitbet benefits from the open display of bets and payouts? Fine! Publish them for paid-out bets. Publish a shortened version for active bets, first few digits of the amount, a fragment of the address… publish hashes of the whole data, deedbot them, anything you'd like. Why publish the whole thing, plain text, all the time? What did you imagine would come out of that rabid, unthinking tran
pete_dushenski wasn't he of poor nickname taste, ftr.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: all of the proposed 'mask' solutions remind me of the 'bear-proof suit'
asciilifeform: !s bear suit
assbot: 3 results for 'bear suit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bear+suit
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:15:42; ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit'
asciilifeform: or, as uncle al called it, 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel.'
asciilifeform: some problems are not meant to be solved ~at the receiving end~
asciilifeform: BUT RATHER are to be solved by finding and catching the problemator, and smashing him into a concrete wall repeatedly until the problem goes away.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.
asciilifeform: perhaps even now he is looking for a suitable concrete wall.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00056675 = 13.3753 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: http://i.imgur.com/NxwksNr.webm << skull/lycra suit isn't unlike bear suit.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << BingoBoingo if that was you, and it was, you linked to an article of mine that said nothing re: miners... << Known, but gotta get people reading because lord knows /. story approvers don't
ben_vulpes: this conflict is rooted in the addr reuse thread.
ben_vulpes: while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: thoughts on the x60 vs x61?
punkman: ben_vulpes: iirc x61 doesn't libreboot
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: theoretically, x60, because coreboot. but turns out that coreboot is halfbaked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00056611 = 8.0388 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 04:23:06; asciilifeform: libreboot just sort of runs it at mid-rpm at all times.
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 16:55:32; asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.
asciilifeform: i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist
asciilifeform: (lenovo REALLY doesn't want you to use your own nic)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: x60 is an amazing box (get the 64-bit last rev., 2GHz) but i must warn, it suffers from a barfalicious - by modern standards - lcd.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: sata ssd will work, but limited to sata-ii (1.5Gb/s) freq.
gernika: I finally have a fully synced trb node, after starting on the project almost a year ago.
pete_dushenski: gernika: congrats!
gernika: thanks pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: you persevered where many didn't, which is really the only way to live.
shinohai: gg gernika \o/
gernika: and if anyone is curious what took me so long - catastrophic hard disk failure, among other things.
shinohai: I've had that, theft, and just yesterday a db crash. Yet I soldier on.
trinque: shinohai: home/car/other ?
shinohai: trinque: home, someone busted in my the side door to my home office, got a lappy and a few trivial items.
trinque: ah, sorry to hear that.
shinohai: No big deal besides the lost work, thankfully the airgapped computer with my gpg keys was in my bedroom at the time.
shinohai: I hope they booted into Arch and were like "dafuq did I just steal?"
trinque: heh, that's what I imagine the fucks that stole my 4U doing.
trinque: "This space heater sucks!11!1!"
danielpbarron: !up jabular
danielpbarron: oh trinque thanks for adding my blog :D
shinohai: I read that this morning danielpbarron - nice!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00056751 = 18.8981 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: danielpbarron: yw
deedbot-: rejected: 1
felipelalli: deedbot- does not like me :)
trinque: not sure why that happened.
trinque: felipelalli: I'll look in a bit and fix whatever's stopping that and put it through for you.
felipelalli: trinque, thank you very much. I guess is something related with UTF-8 again because in my browser I had to manually set to UTF-8 encoding when ?raw=true
felipelalli: wrong header or something
felipelalli: the header is "Content-Type:text/plain" but could be "Content-Type:text/plain?charset=utf-8"
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
deedbot-: rejected: 1
deedbot-: accepted: 1
felipelalli: the problem is wotpaste
trinque: ah neato
trinque: ben_vulpes: ^
felipelalli: trinque, thank you!
ben_vulpes: fascinating.
ben_vulpes: noted, ty.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Chinese Businesses Scavenge US Industry For Brands - http://qntra.net/2016/03/chinese-businesses-scavenge-us-industry-for-brands/
pete_dushenski: "General Electric's efforts get out" << missing 'to'
pete_dushenski: "appliance business have become public knowledge twice before." << this parse funny to anyone else ?
pete_dushenski: "Following that last year "Justice" Department regulators refused permission to Swedish firm Electrolux's efforts to unburden General Electric of this line of business by acquiring it for 3.3 billion" << idem.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00056611 = 22.1915 BTC [-] {3}
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: in general, more commas plz !
pete_dushenski: punctuation helps break up thoughts and controls reader flow
cazalla: how's the bubs pete_dushenski ?
pete_dushenski: cazalla: just splendid. we're in the sweet spot where he's sleeping well, eating well, can't crawl, and isn't teething :)
cazalla: sounds like heaven!
pete_dushenski: lol sure feels like it !
cazalla: i'm at the stage where i'm now singing and dancing to wiggles songs at 6am
cazalla: walking around with kids songs lyrics in muh head
pete_dushenski: gotta have something in there eh ;)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: ty, should be fixed
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Also added picture I left out
cazalla: BingoBoingo, qntra down? down here
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Seems up, we don't really get ddos'd as much
cazalla: might be my end then
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:05:18; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420808 << i took in the alberta ballet's nutcracker in december, which is the local company. there were no more than 3 of the cast who could actually dance. the rest were trying to 'fake it till you make it', which drove me up the wall, particularly when the mouth-breathing audience took it upon themselves to give the sorry lot a standing o.
mircea_popescu: they had the unmitigated audacity to leave envelopes on the tables, "thanks for halping us continue with our art"
mircea_popescu: i crossed out art and wrote in "you stink" and "get a job", but something tells me they won't take this to heart and execute it exactly
mircea_popescu: just like any other derp/redditard to whom i give key life advice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00056585 = 17.994 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:06:28; *: trinque has dated two ballerinas
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421265 << and what exactly do you want me to do, invade china ?
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 19:39:39; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, in particular, seems to understand this principle very well.
mircea_popescu: the brits of 1800 are nowhere to be seen.
asciilifeform: keccak?
mircea_popescu: i did not say "the machine gun". i said THE BRITS.
mircea_popescu: people other than orwell, who unlike orwell had sex and mattered in the world.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3965 @ 0.00056576 = 2.2432 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning
mircea_popescu: seriously, not time to make america great again, it never ceased being great, gotta unite it more ? bitch, you lose. you lose so badly... jesus.
mircea_popescu: i don't recall when's the last time a democrat was so culturally inept. maybe carter.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421273 << as alf aptly points out, merely not telling people where you sleep does nothing to chillax the band of armed murderers going about the streets.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 20:15:01; ben_vulpes: while "there's nothing wrong with addr reuse" made sense once upon a time, the new regime is that "tell people where you're sleeping, and they'll come murder you there".
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 20:46:35; asciilifeform: i eventually put back the heathen bios on the x60, BUT i ida'd it and nop'd out the imbecile nic whitelist
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in other news - hilary apparently attacked trump, and with a total loser speech. it's all over, he's winning << It was Romney, but really no diff
mircea_popescu: in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wait wut ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Romney attacked Trump and offered brokered convention as a solution in his speech
mircea_popescu: nono, that's different
BingoBoingo: i.e. Let Trump win a plurality but not majority of delegates
mircea_popescu: anyway, trump got 7, next ghuy what, 3 ? 4 ? it's all over. i hope to hell he a) fails to get enough delegates and then b) spits in their faces re "brokered convention" and then c) starts his OWN party on pretty much a platform of "fuck the republicans and what are these democrats supposed to even be ?"
mircea_popescu: ideally the republican party should end by being spit in the face by "an outlier" and never recovering from it. best thing for them.
mircea_popescu is wishing trump the most mp-esque of fates.
BingoBoingo: Well, the writing's on the wall for that except for the part about such a fate being MP-esque, I mean Donald Trump-Clinton is a serial scammer.
mircea_popescu: but for a better man, the correct strategy is exactly this.
mircea_popescu: besides, the us is just about ripe for a peron of its own
mircea_popescu: gotta become the argentina it always was, deep down.
mircea_popescu: what's the ivanka v2's name, evita trump what ?
BingoBoingo: This is really the fatal flaw in the whole voting business. All politicans get habituated to lying, scamming, and under delivering but these these outsiders like Donald Trump-Clinton beat them at their game because they practiced those things without the rest of the circle jerk more openly and more criminally.
mircea_popescu drinks a toast to the new PJBFRAWTFATDESTB US party.
BingoBoingo: I don't recall
mircea_popescu: (ie, Partido Justicialista Because Fuck Republicans And What The Fuck Are These Democrats Even Supposed To Be)
mircea_popescu: first party in history with a double fuck in the full name.
mircea_popescu: and that only because it abstains from discussing the economy.
BingoBoingo would just prefer a more honest wrecker to do the parting
mircea_popescu: and speaking of the us and its future - so macri's been in power for a few weeks now, the peronistas (ie, criminal-socialist party) kept hewing and hawing about how they'll bring the street power to bear. today they finally called out a demonstration, it was on all the news outlet. deeply zoomed in, it looked almost like a thing. but zoomed out, it was ~50 to 100 people in a yellow box "blocking traffic". all the plaza
mircea_popescu: de mayo wide the fuck open, more police than protestors, 50 miles of fence and 300 yards of protestor perimeter.
mircea_popescu: an utter humiliation, i have no idea why the fuck they even did it. but it's quite clear that without the cona house they got ~nothing.
mircea_popescu: so macri's here to stay, and the country's definitely going on sale. staples prices already up ~50 to maybe 100%, salaries frozen, all bureaucrats discussing in hushed tones their fears of which jobs will be cut... it's a pleasure.
mircea_popescu: i hope they all fucking starve.
mircea_popescu: oh wait, they sold the corn earlier. they're definitely starving.
BingoBoingo wondering if much of the US is even planting corn this year
mircea_popescu: well the us has the advantage that the people contain enough food for ~decade, give or take.
mircea_popescu: they can just redistribute the fat.
mircea_popescu: and besides, since they ended canada's oil boom with their inept russian embargo shenanigans, the great farmland to the north can get back to agriculture. great obama-hruschev common single planning organ success!
BingoBoingo: lol pete_dushenski and nubbins' in two dog land have to dust off their hos
mircea_popescu: actually, for the interested us scholar, the history of the comecom should be read carefully. it's not merely informative, but will be quite predictive.
mircea_popescu: comecon*
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2014 20:55:09; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me of, in reverse: '...Идет пленум ЦК, Генеральный секретарь читает доклад: Больших успехов достигли хлеборобы Кубанщины, Ставропольщины, Смоленщины, Техасщины, Колорадщины.'
BingoBoingo: Here they pronounce it Comicon
mircea_popescu: check out alf's elephantine memory!
asciilifeform still has a box full.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1420838 << what with the unmitigated audacity of organising "conferences" and announcing "agreements" as if anyone gave the slightest bit of a fuck.
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2016 13:18:23; asciilifeform: the cockroaches, mice, and rats, have come to genuinely believe that they own the house.
mircea_popescu: and these imbecile stallmans of a new generation, encouraging this nonsense. pfff.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421354 << sounds like the band asciilifeform and i got as far away from as possible while still able to gawk at the audience in bsas!
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 00:49:41; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421236 << fancy that, i've just been to an incredibly shitty "super hip" bar here. nice tall ceilings, that the idiots took to defending against with some inept iron grating to make the seats all boxed in. live band, so fucking bad it had more in common with static noise than music.
mircea_popescu: the audience took me back 20 years. back in mid 90s, there was this bar in cluj, mostly favoured by highschooler chicks that were just mediocre but liked to think themsleves special.
BingoBoingo: More Real America Future: https://archive.is/5NU2l
assbot: Stories from Asian parents ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUaVqu )
ben_vulpes: remember that, asciilifeform ? we had more or less the whole upstairs to ourselves?
mircea_popescu: they went there to overdemonstratively socialise and pretend like they're drunk and please grab my teat.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha!
mircea_popescu: except these bovines would have counted as lamers in that ~lame set.
ben_vulpes: i do admire the stairs-barely-bolted-to-the-wall argentine asthetic
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: link to clitler speach?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421377 << today i learn that dirigibilists drink vermouth qua vermouth
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 01:23:57; mircea_popescu: in other news, they have these guts-of-figs with almods or other nuts on top sweets here. utterly delicious with a glass of vermouth
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes believe it or not i read it in la nacion.
ben_vulpes: i just threw up in my mouth
assbot: Guerra declarada: Hillary pasa al ataque y va por Trump - 03.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUbIYm )
mircea_popescu: why does she look so much like a fucking bird anyway.
mircea_popescu: this year in us election, an ogre runt and a quail on lsd.
ben_vulpes: THE ACID TRIP NEVER ENDS
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what is the 'comecon'?
mircea_popescu: derpy soviet take on economy.
mircea_popescu: anyway, did the argentinos hallucinate the story ? never happened ?
ben_vulpes: ask someone who cares
mircea_popescu: was just asking in general :)
mircea_popescu: gotta say i like the language. the derps are fucking useless - saw a fucktard SLEEPING IN THE SHOP today, banned the shop - but check out "envalentonada".
ben_vulpes: look i'm always down to see people humiliate themselves or be humiliated but the acres of derping around before the hammer comes down isn't edging its just fucking boring
ben_vulpes: the whole electoral farce
ben_vulpes: when it coughs up lols, i'll lol
ben_vulpes: but track it?
ben_vulpes: noty.
mircea_popescu: oh oh. my interest is mostly linguistic.
ben_vulpes: MOOOOOO
mircea_popescu: lol andrew cuomo does impressions now ?
ben_vulpes: cuomoo
mircea_popescu: i thought he was ~headed for jail. except you know, "tough on crime" beeeeeehehehehe towelhead forgot the keys to the toughness vault or something.
mircea_popescu: what's his name, polly-wanna-baccarat or whatever the fuck.
BingoBoingo still rather convinced Hillary rodham-clinton and donald trump-clinton are colluding
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incidentally - imagine the fucking ratings once trump turns the white house into a nbc studio
mircea_popescu: "BE A PRESIDENTIAL ASSISTANT!"
mircea_popescu: chinese'd watch that shit.
BingoBoingo also kinda thought this just Trump juicing his ratings after NBC canned his struggling show
assbot: President Camacho's State of the Union - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUd7yc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12349 @ 0.00056751 = 7.0082 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, needless to say the argentine press utterly hates trump. "o noes, male with an ego! hilary is for kids and women! NO UNA MENOS!!!1 herpderp"
mod6 just caught up on logs
mod6: lol @ PJBFRAWTFATDESTB
BingoBoingo: They both have the same clinton ethical disorder
mircea_popescu: ;;ud bennett
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bennett | A bennett is an individual who is known for his skills with females both sexually and relationship wise. A bennett is typically tall with a long bl...
mircea_popescu: so now you know.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, do you vote?
BingoBoingo: Sometimes for sport
cazalla: i'd vote for Trump, just for sport
cazalla: get a job help building that wall as well
mircea_popescu: lol. prolly a pretty good job.
BingoBoingo: Nah, prolly doing my sport voting for rubio or cruz in order to do my part for the brokered convention outcome
mircea_popescu: no love for mr hairday guy ?
cazalla: how was your winter? i just pulled the rest of the tomatoes out this morning, tfw no more summer and winter is coming
asciilifeform: vote for Vermin!11
assbot: Make Donald Drumpf! ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUesoL )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, romanians have been trading votes for years now. go in there with your smartphone, take pic of vote and id card, get 30 lei or w/e
asciilifeform: l0l sounds like a job for a gimp script (tnyscheme!11)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I refuse to vote for a clinton so no, can't vote for hairday guy
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> vote for Vermin!11 << This general election course of action
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform obviously you could take as many pics as payers. but in spite of the ridoinculousness, the nonsense provably works.
asciilifeform: provably?
mircea_popescu: compare the counties where scheme was implemented (it's always done by the "local barons", not a central thing) with the counties where it isn't.
assbot: The layman’s guide to salvaging bitcoins in the era of Chicom miner monopoly. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUfIYQ )
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: pray explain how it works.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421360 << recently learned that 'freres de lait' shared wet nurse.
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2016 00:51:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421239 << nice going, i'm at two too! we're ballerina bros now!
asciilifeform: so you send a privkey. recipient does what?
asciilifeform: now you gotta transact ~twice~
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: user can't send tx because blackholed for using verboten tmsr service, let's say. user exports privkey from wallet, imports to bc.info, sends coins to new wallet and continues on his merry way.
asciilifeform: once to fill up the addr
asciilifeform: and now also he had to empty it.
pete_dushenski: issues may arise if coins are sent to 'wiped' address on throw-away bc.info wallet. thus, my response
asciilifeform: no, think
asciilifeform: say you happened to have addr with x btc just lying around. you pay me by sending its privk.
asciilifeform: now ~i~ want to spend.
asciilifeform: what, i send key again to next dest?!
asciilifeform: creating ~3~ wallets with identical key?!!
pete_dushenski: i must be thick
asciilifeform: and 3 folks who can spend it.
asciilifeform: even by accident
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: think about why we even have bitcoin?
asciilifeform: instead of just saying 'i own this integer'
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 22:56:04; pete_dushenski: if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much.
mircea_popescu: take it the other way, pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: do you recall the ancient derpage where folks sold accounts?
asciilifeform: or how mtgox was sold.
mircea_popescu: so you meet a shady guy in a bar, and he shows you an address with 10 btc in it, and gives you the privkey in exchange of taking the lady in the back alley half-n-half.
mircea_popescu: the lady side aside, do you think this is a sensible deal ?
pete_dushenski: no, because he can have copies of privkey
mircea_popescu: so then.
pete_dushenski: but if no more coins are sent to the shared privkey, then all's kosher, neh ?
mircea_popescu: how is it kosher ?
mircea_popescu: it's not kosher, it's a race as to who can spend first, and you're hoping the lady's good enough to keep him busy long enough for you to get to a wifi ?
deedbot-: [Trilema] MPIF (F.MPIF) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-february-2016-statement/
mircea_popescu: which i suppose works ok in this extemporaneous prostitution scenario, but pretty much nowhere else.
pete_dushenski: because it's then a throwaway intermediary. and yes, hoping that bc.info doesn't spend same coins in same 10 minutes is the risk.
asciilifeform: generally, situation where 2+ people each have full control of a prvkey, is a deadly failure
pete_dushenski: it's. 10. minutes.
asciilifeform: like short circuit in electronics.
pete_dushenski: after that, one hopes, no more.
mircea_popescu: well... what happens if the tx is not included in a block ?
pete_dushenski: i'm not advocating regular use of webwallets here
mircea_popescu: or, better yet, broadcast but "not seen", magically ?
mircea_popescu: by "the network", of course.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what 10min?! whatever kept you from transacting like normal people, will keep you from moving the 'temporary' coinz
punkman: where the hell does bc.info come in and why
pete_dushenski: then bc.info has miners who prioritise their txen ?
asciilifeform: this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: then user is fucked because he's now shared privkeys and ~still~ has no way of transacting lol
pete_dushenski: punkman: just a place to import privkeys
pete_dushenski: one that seems to get tx included in blocks, i might add
punkman: pete_dushenski: I read the blog post, didn't make sense
pete_dushenski: just my experience
mircea_popescu: basically, the most charitable read of the thing i can come up with is, "if you find your own wallet unable to transact - try move the privkey to a webwallet, maybe it works there".
mircea_popescu: that much... i guess may make sense, maybe.
punkman: sure
punkman: but stuck coinz don't get unstuck because you moved priv keys
mircea_popescu: no, but you can now bitch at vc derps and post on reddit.
asciilifeform: let hitler try spendng for you! ahaha lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somethinglike that. given that his guide announces itself as "opportunistic smalltimer defense", it's not necessarily wrong.
pete_dushenski: punkman: i wouldn't have thought so either
asciilifeform: before long, there will be special magick services that will help you spend...
pete_dushenski is nothing if not "opportunistic smalltimer"
asciilifeform: bitpal.
mircea_popescu: bitpal by mital.
asciilifeform: see where the train goes.
punkman: I try to keep in mind: "network might be down for a year, can you live with that"
punkman: is this a bastardized mp quote? can't recall the source
mircea_popescu: i'll gladly take the credit if it saves you the time to search for sauce.
punkman: from the i-don't-even department http://i.imgur.com/k1x1n5b.png
assbot: There's always that one guy.... ... ( http://bit.ly/1VUhVnh )
mircea_popescu: is this something by that dank dude ?
pete_dushenski: wait... that's a double post
asciilifeform: l0lzy, neutron blackening of optics
punkman: imgur videos are the worst with noscript. I click+delete the flash placeholder, allow the mp4, it reloads, then I allow the webm and maybe it start playing
punkman: !s jl777
assbot: 2 results for 'jl777' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jl777
punkman: (supernet guy)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> like short circuit in electronics. << For live examples see brainwallets
asciilifeform: brainwallet is an iq test.
asciilifeform: ~the~ iq test.
BingoBoingo: Also tx propagation test
BingoBoingo: Who can spend inputs first when they arrive
asciilifeform: if you have a reasonable brain you can even brainrsakey.
BingoBoingo: Oh no, I mean enough people have keys for many brainwallets so anytime they recieve coins it is off to the races for at least tens of scrapers
asciilifeform: ah you meant idiotwallets
asciilifeform: with keys like sha512('foo').
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27561 @ 0.00056784 = 15.6502 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Yes, I mean the actual in the wild phenomenon
punkman: there's a new 8char brainwallet challenge, apparently nobody solved the last one https://keybase.io/warp/warp_1.0.8_SHA256_5111a723fe008dbf628237023e6f2de72c7953f8bb4265d5c16fc9fd79384b7a.html
assbot: WarpWallet - deterministic bitcoin wallet generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3cWGB )
assbot: Once upon a time... I accidentally killed a deathfat | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3dxbi )
BingoBoingo: !up alnit
cazalla: i dunno how you stomach it BingoBoingo, one of your fold mold comments on /r/bitcoin i think it was made me gag
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ~the~ iq test. << "variant thought" and iq are at best orthogonal.
BingoBoingo: This is becoming a problem even for me, did I write that thing I just came across or not
cazalla: doesn't read like previous ones of yours i've read, so i guess no
mircea_popescu: lol first culture problems.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 421.85, vol: 6744.23638592 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 424.06, vol: 6696.72947 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 422.83, vol: 15402.83472685 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 410.01, vol: 0.77053644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 428.8068, vol: 56255.23460000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 422.147, vol: 3751.10880038 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 423.71995, vol: 67.15733005 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 426.601357001
assbot: New extremism guidelines require schools to report suspect behaviour | Australia news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/21LA6yV )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.35570199 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b20
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28654 @ 0.00056797 = 16.2746 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6301 @ 0.00056694 = 3.5723 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform falling down, will finish broadcast when he wakes up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00056525 = 22.7231 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: !up felipelalli
felipelalli: ben_vulpes, yes, I have my photo in there.
felipelalli: ben_vulpes, but I didn't understand the relation.
trinque: asciilifeform │ this whole thing is 'ukranian space program' - 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!' << bahahaha dear god my sides
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12185 @ 0.00056826 = 6.9242 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/1UDCLZs )
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