Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-12-24 | 2015-12-26 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00050731 = 25.7206 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32358 @ 0.00050747 = 16.4207 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32116 @ 0.00050751 = 16.2992 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00050528 = 24.5566 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00050521 = 14.7774 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84200 @ 0.00050484 = 42.5075 BTC [-]
asciilifeform switches on... air conditioner
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48018 @ 0.00050753 = 24.3706 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6282 @ 0.00050784 = 3.1903 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87350 @ 0.00050791 = 44.3659 BTC [+] {2}
phf: dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday
phf: cigar bar was all malcontents and characters
phf: but yeah, it's fucking hot out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77600 @ 0.0005074 = 39.3742 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.0005074 = 9.1839 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00050694 = 39.2879 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: here near stl is is a pleasant spring weather
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51550 @ 0.00050484 = 26.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: Every year this smug fat bastard breaks into people's home and stuffs himself with cookies. The worst part is no one says a word about it. I blame fat acceptance. | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1YFDbgF )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00050522 = 4.1428 BTC [+]
phf: there's been reports in the media that naughty or nice database has been breached, but of course everyone knows that santa has been cooperating with NSA for years
BingoBoingo: Always taking the easy way out
BingoBoingo: !up PinkPosixPXE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050522 = 16.1165 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24350 @ 0.0005051 = 12.2992 BTC [-] {2}
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part i. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/12/25/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-i/
ben_vulpes: > 0.5.3 selected by Mircea Popescu
ben_vulpes: eh gtfo pete
assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bio )
assbot: A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bis )
ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00050694 = 24.3585 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: Merry Xmas ya'll. Or at least the people within my timezone...
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/srW6Q << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" BitcoinStore.com shit he used to run
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00050562 = 33.3709 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49684 @ 0.00050562 = 25.1212 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77100 @ 0.00050516 = 38.9478 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32800 @ 0.00050601 = 16.5971 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88754 @ 0.00050484 = 44.8066 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56796 @ 0.00050427 = 28.6405 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15410 @ 0.00050427 = 7.7708 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntra.net/contact/ << missed this one?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28990 @ 0.00050385 = 14.6066 BTC [-]
jurov: heh, looks like a bsnss opportunity for a paid pastebin >:D
ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver?
deedbot-: [cascadian hacker] [ANN] WOTPASTE Alpha (oh and I found another fucked up corner of GPG...) - http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/12/25_ann-wotpaste-alpha-oh-and-i-found-another-fucked-up-corner-of-gpg.html
ben_vulpes: jurov: while we're on the topic...
ben_vulpes: ahh i love shipping in the wee hours
punkman: ben_vulpes: not just newlines, you can add spaces, tabs, and possibly other things at end of lines
ben_vulpes: isn't it grand!?
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 09:40:13; punkman: (exercise for students: clearsign a piece of text. append as many trailing spaces/tabs/CRs as you like to the clearsigned text. check if it's still valid. repeat process with detached signature, see what happens)
ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot
ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it
punkman: we'd have a lot more bad signatures if it wasn't the case
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92000 @ 0.00050665 = 46.6118 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: ben_vulpes: while signed pasties are nice for the pastie collector, ain't nobody got time for that
punkman: I guess it'd be useful as deedbot input
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27863 @ 0.00050694 = 14.1249 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: k, noted
ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.000507 = 26.6175 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: ben_vulpes: gpg is okay with changed line endings in clearsigned content. However, some email clients helpfully wrap text or add/remove empty lines and there the buck stops.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66100 @ 0.00050383 = 33.3032 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50514 @ 0.00050847 = 25.6849 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00050383 = 33.5047 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8242 @ 0.00050383 = 4.1526 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6118 @ 0.00050383 = 3.0824 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41700 @ 0.00050817 = 21.1907 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00050726 = 30.9936 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: GLONASS Tracks Father Frost - NORAD Tracks Santa Wiki - Wikia ... ( http://bit.ly/1Po80Wt )
punkman: for aficionados, greek santa is not Nicholas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_of_Caesarea
assbot: Basil of Caesarea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1miwCnH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48750 @ 0.000506 = 24.6675 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0005085 = 2.2883 BTC [+]
punkman: http://www.e-sylwester.pl/galerie/3253/VGLN-GROLOUSK-9.jpg and the traditional christmas tree is actually a christmas boat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9136 @ 0.00050319 = 4.5971 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19834 @ 0.00050123 = 9.9414 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99031 @ 0.00050892 = 50.3989 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00050148 = 14.9692 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87750 @ 0.00050926 = 44.6876 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00050959 = 11.8989 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 07:07:34; phf: dc is actually quite pleasant when all the apparatchiks are home celebrating national holiday
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63450 @ 0.00050138 = 31.8126 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352791 << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 09:15:18; ben_vulpes: the link you cite as mircea_popescu picking 0.5.3 is a response to a request for a copy of the source of a particular vintage
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352794 <<< it got too successful for its own victim or something.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 09:47:49; thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/srW6Q << oh look. "competition". Roger Ver wants to get into journalism now. Whatever happened to that "successful" BitcoinStore.com shit he used to run
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352814 |<< everyone who had to use gpg got bruised by gpg. davout was talking to me about this in 2013, for a diff project
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:09:52; ben_vulpes: ah that's right you beat me to this one by a long shot
mircea_popescu: pick the 2000s pronstarz in there ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00050959 = 7.1088 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: as the pics are from '50-'60s, surely not.
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Hey, thanks for starting to write up some of this stuff. I aught to point out at least one thing: 'Checkpoints excised by Shane Kinney'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Although I posted this patch in December of '14, it was quickly tabled by February -- and I wrote about this in the SoBA: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000041.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] The Bitcoin Foundation: STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZsBCF0 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: read this section: [ Tabling of Checkpoints Patch ]:
punkman: isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints?
mod6: And this statement is not accurate: ``With the “rm_checkpoints” patch, the wedge issue at Block 252450 was overcome.''
mod6: it was this patch that overcame that issue: bitcoin-v0_5_3-db_config.6.vpatch
assbot: [BTC-dev] BDB Configuration ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZsBSnl )
mod6: Sorry that it's confusing and not super easy to follow, just hoping to make your cool historical timeline a bit more accurate. Salud!
mod6: punkman: ya
mod6: - if (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate())))
mod6: + if (fVerifyAll || (!(fBlock && (nBestHeight < Checkpoints::GetTotalBlocksEstimate()))))
mod6: different patch though
assbot: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Add '-verifyall' option. ... ( http://bit.ly/1COZ3BA )
mod6: and its worthwhile to point out the db locks thing is separate
shinohai: Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol
shinohai: Also, been stalled on block 381423 for ~12 hours.
punkman: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 390129 | Current Difficulty: 9.34486707963238E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 391103 | Next Difficulty In: 974 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: jurov oh i thought it was 80s
mircea_popescu: heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures.
punkman: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00050966 = 8.18 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <punkman> isn't verifyall equivalent to no checkpoints? << in trb yes. otherwise... complicated.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352888 << i like going to american antique stores, stocked with '40s-'50s crud. it's kinda like a tour to my '80s childhood
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:49:49; mircea_popescu: heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352883 << i recommend reading the code. it disables the 'checkpoint' crud (in the sense of forcing all blocks, including the early ones covered by the 'checkpoint' kludge, to be verified)
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:45:04; shinohai: Let me say that -verifyall really does it's job of verifying blocks lol
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> heh, i suppose that's the strongest indictment for the soviets ever : can't fucking distinguish 50s from 80s looking at the pictures. << yeah, whenever i see these older pics, I can't tell if its 30 years ago or 60
asciilifeform: i still don't get what is so terrible about this.
asciilifeform: folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc.
mod6: totally nothing. i actually kinda like these.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2014#799538 << iirc this is the earliest point of reference for proto-trb
assbot: Logged on 18-08-2014 00:46:28; mircea_popescu: so here is a "witness" bitcoin, v 0.6 and there is your "improved" 0.10 (lulzy that it's not 1.0 anymoar)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu reveals that he has - to this day unpublished! - private 31337 version of bitcoin; then everybody tries to pry detail outa him; ben_vulpes asks for pedigreed tarballs; i ask for printed book... etc )
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:26:49; ben_vulpes: there's an experimental aspect to it as well, in the vein of getting more signed msterial out in the world
assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 21:22:07; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-12-2015#1352443 << no!! because deedbot requires privkey use during paste, which is very arduous if you have good hygiene
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> folks dressed like civilized people, tasteful quasi-victorian rooms, etc. <<< http://trilema.com/2010/piinea-amara-a-baietasilor-de-cartier/ you priviledged lout you.
assbot: Piinea amara a baietasilor de cartier on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QMt22E )
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:06:51; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352791 << it's true, i never picked 5.3 per se. my contribution was that i said no later than 6 series ; foundation held an informal hearing, decided to go the earliest possible rather than latest possible route, supoena'd me for historical copies which i provided and htey used.
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 18:45:41; *: jurov just snatched therealbitcoin.org/.com . we'll see.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey everybody's front door looked like this
asciilifeform: perhaps i'm missing the point of the photo..?
mircea_popescu: looky, the 1990 revolutions happened because hunger. this is a fact.
mircea_popescu: the article kinda mocks some .ro rappers because hey, hunger. anyway.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> maybe i'm just thick, but i can't think of what ben_vulpes's 'wotpaste' is actually for << not really his, i just idly asked why would we make a special thing for paste when deedbot already has all that functionality and more. within the same ten minutes it came to light why and the matter went away afaic.
asciilifeform: because i wanna paste from a shell
asciilifeform: as in, through a pipe
asciilifeform: and many other trb folks, i imagine, could also find this useful
asciilifeform: and i ain't signing pipe garbage
asciilifeform: (which i might not even know the content of in advance!)
asciilifeform: pastes are a disposable thing that one might produce ten of in a single minute
mircea_popescu: this poor goat is dead alfie. why you beatin' it.
asciilifeform is still waiting for the first 'shall be delivered'-style disaster to illustrate 'don't carelessly sign things'
mircea_popescu: the guy that got all butthurt about his eth short not good enough for you ?
asciilifeform: didn't he lose his key ?
mircea_popescu: the other guy that was going to "ruin bitbet in social media" because similar ?
asciilifeform: very different problem
mircea_popescu: i guess technically different huh.
asciilifeform: everybody ~knows~ that losing your key is doom
asciilifeform: but folks sign carelessly, because very few good public, bloody, examples of why not to
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352859 << 'как наденешь галстук, береги его, он же с нашим знаменем цвета одного!!!' (tm) (r)
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 16:16:23; mircea_popescu: http://m.smedata.sk/api-media/media/image/sme/3/30/309393/309393_1000x.jpeg << heh check out the czech starlets!
asciilifeform: (re: the 'pioneer' neckties)
asciilifeform: this rhyme, incidentally, was mercilessly spoofed
mircea_popescu: was discussing more the hitler jugend one-inch-over-pubis skirts
asciilifeform: original 'when you get your necktie, keep it safe, it is the same colour as our red banner'
mircea_popescu is partial to that fashion for girlies, perhaps on account of having grown up in a sea of teenybopper knickers.
asciilifeform: 'folk' variations included 'Как наденешь галстук - береги его: Он с твоими месячными цвета одного'
asciilifeform: (... it is same colour as your menstruations)
asciilifeform: or 'Как наденешь галстук - Береги его! Есть на чём повеситься, В случае чего'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know the (same vintage) aspirin contraception joke ?
asciilifeform: ( ... you'll have what to hang yourself on, just in case )
asciilifeform: everybody knows it
asciilifeform: even in usa
asciilifeform also partial to same fashion
asciilifeform: prolylly for same reason
assbot: A brief history of the Bitcoin Foundation's activity from 10/2014 through 4/2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Od7bis )
asciilifeform: interesting how it never caught on in supposedly depuritanized usa
mircea_popescu: mod6 reconfigures BDB to pass the wedge at block 252450 << remember that alf ? :D
asciilifeform still loathes bdb and would like to see it go, asap
mircea_popescu: honestly the only way to replace that seems bitcoinfs
mircea_popescu: still premature.
asciilifeform has been looking at the socket handling, and it is imho the most urgent crock of shit ~after~ the leak
asciilifeform: one idiot can trivially monopolize a node.
mircea_popescu: yeah, take some load off poor iptables for this.
asciilifeform: the whole polled socket thing is deeply braindamaged
asciilifeform: (it is a sort of 'cooperative multitasking', a la win95 !)
asciilifeform: client walks the fd's and sees if socket 'needs service' and gives itself over to it wholly until whatever operation (however long it takes) is complete
mircea_popescu: guy was a windows head.
asciilifeform: and ~despite~ this, the source is still peppered with 'critical section' locks etc
mircea_popescu: i think locks and lock behavious is nsa's #1 favourite metacomputing item.
mircea_popescu: counterintuitively, ahead of prngs
asciilifeform: who doesn't love a good ol'fashioned race condition bug
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: way the fuck better than a smash.
asciilifeform: (anybody recall the race condition 0days in linux kernel circa 2011 ?)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36445 @ 0.00051001 = 18.5873 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82457 @ 0.00050886 = 41.9591 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00051002 = 15.2496 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50018 @ 0.00051006 = 25.5122 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00051009 = 8.442 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63294 @ 0.00050667 = 32.0692 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: %*$*#&#* Windows 7 Calculator | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKzFCB )
VariaVarietatis: sup mircea_popescu
VariaVarietatis: asciilifeform: heard a rumor they might close the drone base in turkey, think this is true?
asciilifeform: VariaVarietatis: how the hell would i know.
asciilifeform: 'For some reason, completely unknown to me, Xcode is ALSO tied to OSX version, For example Xcode 6.3 requires a OSX version more than Xcode 6.2, despite having no huge differentes between the two and Xcode 6.3 don't requiring any new OS capabilities that Xcode 6.2 didn't already used anyway. But every time you update OSX and Xcode, not only they sometimes explicitly require a new machine model, but they also get increasingly m
asciilifeform: ore inefficient, using more and more RAM and CPU to do the same things. Since right now, I am very low on money, this means I am stuck using Xcode 6.2, and trying to not misclick anything when I plug the testing devices and iTunes nag me to update them... because if I allow them to get updated, I will have to upgrade Xcode, OSX, and the entire machine, and right now sometimes I can't afford even food ...'
asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l
asciilifeform: '... A physical calculator (and not a touch-screen app on a tablet) has something that the surrogate doesn't. For one thing it does not require you to do GUI context switching. It does not compete for mouse (or keyboard) with the other tens of open programs. I find this invaluable. On the other hand, touch screens take away tactile feedback. This gives the same bland taste as the soft power-off switches.' << yes!
asciilifeform keeps physical calculator
shinohai: I prefer physical calculators myself. Apps suck.
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting for a physical calc with hex digit keys and single-button bit operations
asciilifeform: so i can sell my antique hp16c
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84750 @ 0.00050961 = 43.1894 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Logged on 04-09-2015 03:52:50; mats: jesus the hp 16c goes for 200+
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: that reminds me of professor who said to class, "Why the fuck does Word need 1GB of memory and we got to the moon on 12kb of RAM?"
thestringpuller: no one in the class had an answer
assbot: Loper OS » Going Nowhere Really Fast, or How Computers Only Come in Two Speeds. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OVhuca )
thestringpuller: Millions of people have been bamboozled into thinking that editing a letter in real time requires a supercomputer. << but how has the consumer been so easily bamboozled.
thestringpuller: some schmuck has to be like "This is how it is, and this is what you are to expect." for "consumers to have come to expect"
asciilifeform: because 'consumer' is not actually alive.
asciilifeform: but just this thing, like water, takes shape of container (as portrayed in old mircea_popescu article)
thestringpuller: ofc. but yet still operators today, for instance coworkers refuse to use VIM cause "hard"
asciilifeform: if it were 'use vim or stop eating' they will use vim.
thestringpuller: but yet when Atom or Sublime or other bastardized notepad explodes they complain.
asciilifeform: just as they happily used microshit
thestringpuller: I blame the web developers. Fancy CSS and prettiness > functionality
assbot: Re: creation of lisp machine/lispOS - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/22rV8Uy )
asciilifeform: 'look at Microsoft. nobody in their right mind would want their buggy shit. what Microshit users want is something entirely separate from the products. Microshit is _not_ user-friendly, but it is marketed as user-friendly, and then other software products, far more user-friendly, are made to look as if they missed the whole point about what "user-friendly" _is_, namely to look cool in nice colors while you're crashing and des
asciilifeform: troying the disk, importing a virus from a disk, or letting Word destroy your day's work.'
thestringpuller: Meanwhile, I want to build a sane computer, but I feel it's futile because Microshit and Apple ruined everything... :(
asciilifeform: the boojum in building a sane-anything is that it will have to be financed with your lunch money.
thestringpuller: too bad the bullies shake me down for it everyday
thestringpuller: so not like I have lunch money to begin with
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352815 << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ?
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:10:20; ben_vulpes: but i don't think you called out specifically that you can rewrite the whole file's line ending styles without invalidating it
asciilifeform: let's approach mathematically. with detached sig in gpg, i can sign ANY bitstring which fits in the machine.
asciilifeform: with 'clearsign' - i can only sign certain strings which don't contain the escape magicks.
asciilifeform: and since gpg is retarded by virtue of having to ride on top of 7bit-clean turdmailz etc., it happily mutilates strings to make'em signable
asciilifeform: so you are not signing what you thought you were signing, but a transform
asciilifeform: which is unforgivable
assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 17:51:51; asciilifeform: because it doesn't belong in-band.
punkman: no reason we can't have pseudo-clearsigned, text at the top with hex escapes for unprintables, full msg+sig in lower base64 part
assbot: Logged on 15-08-2015 17:56:24; asciilifeform: now you have to CARE ABOUT THE INSIDES
asciilifeform: because CAN'T PIPE THAT
punkman: huh?
asciilifeform: because if you have a magic format, suddenly you have severely circumscribed choices
asciilifeform: 1) you can no longer transmit a file of unknown length through a signing widget and sign at arbitrary moment. gotta compute the length in advance
asciilifeform: 2) now you have to care about endian - how to represent the magic length word ?
asciilifeform: 3) if your file is 7-bit clean, it WILL get mutilated somewhere from point A to point B, just about guaranteed, so whole exercise was pointless
asciilifeform: 4) you have to de-crudify a signed file before it can be used
asciilifeform: i could go on and on with the braindamage
asciilifeform: 'clearsign' kinda worked for documents intended to be STRICTLY human-readable, where newline crud doesn't have much of an impact
asciilifeform: but even there it barely worked.
asciilifeform: i've ruined hell knows how many ascii art diagrams by signing
asciilifeform: (dashes mutilated)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78083 @ 0.00050135 = 39.1469 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: 'clearsigning' is one of those 'dwim' retardations that folks apparently will have to burn themselves on painfully, again and again and again and again, until they finally grasp the futility
asciilifeform: there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing.
punkman: I don't want 'clearsigning', but if I'm gonna have ascii armored messages/sigs, might as well stick them in one blob, and an unencoded "preview" of the message can be nice to have
asciilifeform: as soon as 'nice to have' transitions into 'this does not and cannot possibly work as intended but we'll use it anyway' you open the door to perdition.
asciilifeform: and ascii-armour is an entirely distinct thing (really just 'uuencode') from 'clearsign'
asciilifeform: in that it does not pretend to be usable as-is without unpacking,
asciilifeform: AND in that it does not mutilate the payload!
punkman: aha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127050 @ 0.00050687 = 64.3978 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62600 @ 0.00050263 = 31.4646 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352990 << the only megalol is wtf does some schmuck that can't afford food do withy computers.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:08:06; asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l
mircea_popescu: they're not for everyone, srsly now.
punkman: and he even has testing devices
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64673 @ 0.00050428 = 32.6133 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i just hope he doesn't have a girlfriend.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353020 << dude. i am not maintaining two channels. clearsign is good specifically because it is clearsign.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:32:25; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1352815 << and when i wrote re: CLEARSIGNING IS INTRINSICALLY RETARDED BECAUSE IN-BAND did anyone listen ?
mircea_popescu: you see me using "detached signatures" ?
ben_vulpes baffled that ipnohe coolie is starving somehow
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes note that often these self-misrepresented "techs" are actually 6 weeks away from the day they first heard of "that css programming language"
mircea_popescu: as illustrated by discussion of "entrepreneurs" quoted in the logs.
ben_vulpes: brief snippet sounded sorta with-it
ben_vulpes: but i was up till 5 last night, so not really applying the razor
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353048 << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 19:47:55; asciilifeform: there cannot be a reasonable way to do an unreasonable thing.
ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho.
mircea_popescu: let's start with, "why not"
ben_vulpes: because i have no interest in building things for the mob.
punkman: ben_vulpes: perhaps issue something like "api key" to users, have a shell script to pipe things to, that sends authenticated paste request
ben_vulpes: and having a known set of users rules out a whole class of misbehaviors.
mircea_popescu: how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like.
ben_vulpes: and redistribute whenever someone pisses in my cheerios?
mircea_popescu: something like that
mircea_popescu: not 100%, but prolly close enough
ben_vulpes: i did briefly consider letting people sub out a disposable key
mircea_popescu: you can just deed a notice, which you encrypt to everyone's key.
ben_vulpes: alternatively, rotate the pubkey every day, encrypting to l2 and hosting myself.
ben_vulpes: but this is extremely inconvenient to use.
mircea_popescu: meh, i'm not downloading new pubkeys every day to use your paste thing
mircea_popescu: might do it a once a year or some shit, but that's about it.
ben_vulpes: yeeeeeah.
mircea_popescu: alternatively : everyone get a fucking blog, and in that blog have a uploads directoy, and that's fucking that.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 11:01:25; ben_vulpes: isn't that called a webserver?
ben_vulpes: that's what i've been doing, but it's not working and i'm still seeing heinous linefeed issues hamstringing and tripping up trb scouts
mircea_popescu: how's it not working ?!
ben_vulpes: plus every irc community evolves until it has its own pastebin or how did that old saw go
ben_vulpes: people are still using motherfucking dpaste!
ben_vulpes: and miscellaneous other pasteshites who shit crlfs and waste precious trb time
mircea_popescu: the idea was, get a blog, use that.
mircea_popescu: how is this related to the above ?
ben_vulpes: people aren't getting blogs and using them.
ben_vulpes: i'm not saying that they won't, i'm say that nobody appears to actually be doing so.
mircea_popescu: i think i've done so a few times, actually.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00050493 = 26.6603 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but in fairness, this is just another facet of the monolithic usg-slavery-thoughtpattern. living in the states is good enoughy for me ; i don't really need a blog and it's not THE central, defining thing of my current existence ; on it goes.
mircea_popescu: there's little technological solutions to psychological problems.
ben_vulpes: from pasteshite design to "all you-sians are congenitally retarded" in less than 50 lines.
ben_vulpes: merry cribmusk.
mircea_popescu: ty, i try!
ben_vulpes: useles, you are!
ben_vulpes chuckles
ben_vulpes: "i don't solve problems, i just make them"
mircea_popescu: i didn't even make one this time!
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, i go out buy a bag of dice. these idiots used blue and red for the paint on the faces. guess what numbers are red and what numbers are blue ?
ben_vulpes: right right, just gleefully abstaining from helping lol
ben_vulpes: primes and not?
mircea_popescu: 1 and 4 are red. rest blue.
ben_vulpes blinks
mircea_popescu: not you know, fucking odds and evens. not you know, fucking 1,2,3 vs 4,5,6
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if argentina made these.
ben_vulpes: well no it wouldn't be sensible things
ben_vulpes: aight but before we go haring off completely is there an argument to be made in favor of wotmembers signing authentication tokens over decrypting authentication tokens?
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the dpaste : im not abstaining from helping or anything of the sort. there's been an idea, it's been trashing around in the b-a uterus trying to come to conception. it doesn't seem that it actually works tho, seems more like an irrealisable chimera of disparate, irreconcilable parts.
mircea_popescu: the correct solution also seems to have emerged, how's any of this my fault.
mircea_popescu: i don't think i want an authenticated dpaste, myself.
mircea_popescu: for the stated reason : for the same money i just use my blog to host the file
mircea_popescu: which is specifically what i said above : there will exist EXACTLY ONE place i authenticate at ; the name for that place is "my blog"
mircea_popescu: not fucking facebook. not anything else.
mircea_popescu: this is fundamental and fundamentally important. if you wish to be a person, you gotta maintain this level of control.
ben_vulpes: incl assbot
mircea_popescu: not a bad counterexample.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu proposes to manage dns without authentication? is this like the mythical bezzlebroker who only communicates in gpggrams with $maxint clients?
mircea_popescu: i propose to not manage dns at all, and not have dns, either.
ben_vulpes: if so i would like an introduction to this registrar, they sound like good people to know
mircea_popescu: you know, giving examples of broken shit is not necessarily an effectual way to argue in favour of said shit.
mircea_popescu: i like registrars like i like microsoft.
ben_vulpes: yes well clearly when we actually have gossipd auth i can wash my hands of auth too.
ben_vulpes: so riddle me this: why the everloving fuck *should* i make any tool usable for anyone outside of my wot?
mircea_popescu: still, you know, think about what this is. you're proposing to give people a modicum of webspace in some narrow constraints.
mircea_popescu: because why the fuck, 10 bucks a month is too much for these people to get a fucking blog up ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i do not think you should.
mircea_popescu: bear in mind however that ... how are women that you've not fucked before going to find you ?
ben_vulpes: isn't the classic answer 'the other gurlz'?
ben_vulpes: SO WHY THE FUCK WRITE SHIT FOR PEOPLE NOT IN THE WOT
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes i do not think you should. !
ben_vulpes: well then what precisely were you proposing?
jurov: he proposed for everyone to have own webspace, no?
mircea_popescu: that you're trying to sell webspace on a below-shared server level and by the kilobyte like some sort of idiot. either get into the business by running an actual isp or else let people do the thing sanely on their own.
mircea_popescu: in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time.
assbot: Nothing found for Blog Wp-content Uploads 2015 12 Vinyll Png) ... ( http://bit.ly/1MzzoKT )
mircea_popescu: bullshit. it was, at the time, incredibly cheap and convenient.
ben_vulpes: not selling, really. more of a toy for phriendz
mircea_popescu: if you have friends who need a prepackaged version of a $10 item you apparently need better friends.
mircea_popescu: either that or befriending more adults, i guess.
ben_vulpes: nobody 'needs' a toy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16825 @ 0.00050493 = 8.4954 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/10/obamas-effort-to-nudge-america-000276 << in which the department of statistics completely forgets about the challenges of untangling correlation from causation
assbot: Obama’s effort to ‘nudge’ America ... ( http://bit.ly/1MzzF05 )
ben_vulpes: "The results: about 9 percent more poor students matriculated." << how would you know it's attributable to your work?
jurov: ben_vulpes: i'd say you are going at it in wrong direction
ben_vulpes: "but it still led to a $1.59 million increase in fees in one quarter" << how do you knoooow
ben_vulpes: try me, jurov. what's a better direction?
jurov: maybe i'll act on it myself, so i won't say now. but it's quite obvious.
mircea_popescu: lol the cutthroat pastecompetition
ben_vulpes: if you want it, take it!
ben_vulpes: all i want is a prophylactic against crlfs.
ben_vulpes: everything else is ego and vanity
jurov: oooooh. i wanted to see your megasuperdevstack in action, tho
ben_vulpes: no js in this thing.
ben_vulpes: no js in tmsr~!
mircea_popescu: your life's work is not welcome here!
ben_vulpes: megasuperdevstack only makes sense in context of insane complexity of ui development, jurov.
mircea_popescu: this is really not a bad motto for b-a ; the funny thing for me is how varied the reaction of people is as they encounter it in practice.
jurov: :)
ben_vulpes: tmsr~ needs ui like it needs people who need ui.
mircea_popescu: you know that ~ makes sense only if it's b,tmsr~
mircea_popescu: otherwise it's like "the The Bank"
ben_vulpes: yes boss
ben_vulpes: (what else would it be the most serene republic of, though?)
mircea_popescu: ~ is not "of"
mircea_popescu: ~ in this context is an interesting thing : a postprocessor directive meaning "take the string before the first comma and put it in here to reconstruct the correct title of this item". so that "Fanny Fucksticks, The Enchanted Travels Of ~" becomes "The Enchanted Travels Of Fanny Fucksticks".
mircea_popescu: the reason for this is that so many titles start with The in english that it debalanced the sorting tree (implemented in nature as shelves)
mircea_popescu: this ties into the discussion about nazis and their de-facto paper-processing computing
assbot: Logged on 24-12-2015 19:32:46; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other gestapo did not suffer from delusions of machine learning!1111111111 to help them process somehow infinite tips into an edible portion
mircea_popescu: in fact, machine learning is older than automatons.
ben_vulpes: (it is the root of cognition, no?) "usually this makes the food happen"
mircea_popescu: kinda why i stuck it in there - bitcoin has deeper roots than commonly realised.
ben_vulpes: anyways jurov if i had an inkling that someone would do it besides myself i'd not have done it in the first place. if you want the thing on your plate, lmk, otherwise if you have an obvious solution you're not holding out for paste-opoly also let me know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35378 @ 0.00050428 = 17.8404 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: heh, not like pastebin is some crucial piece
ben_vulpes: which is why i think it should be hammered out and left alone at the earliest possible moment.
mircea_popescu: thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename.
mircea_popescu: or, more generally : that it's like clearisgn and not like detached signature.
ben_vulpes: (it's just a fucking latrine that needs digging)
mircea_popescu: the thing i fucking hate about dpaste is the dumbass "select data type" and that they think text is "plain text" and starts with a p.\
jurov: i'm not hellbound to having it. my idea was to accept anything, signed or not, make it available for a week, and put older pastes behind a paywall
jurov: i suspect ben_vulpes is not up for that kind of latrine anyway :D
mircea_popescu: ahahaha paywall dpaste
mircea_popescu: how to cheaply and efficiently ensure the ire of people in the wot : charge them for their own shit.
ben_vulpes: jurov: why'd i not be?
jurov: just guessing
jurov: it needs more attention than fire and forget
mircea_popescu: "We received conflicting advice from lots of smart people about which is more important. We focused on engagement, which we improved by orders of magnitude. No one cared."
mircea_popescu: check it out, "engagement" went up by 9% / 1.59 mn in one quarter.
mircea_popescu: how THE FUCK do you increase engagement and no one cares.
mircea_popescu: Title: How My Startup Failed Product: Condom Key Chains
mircea_popescu: "today in Cheez Today"
mircea_popescu: "And this worked really well for foursquare thanks to the mayorship. If I tell someone I’m the mayor of a spot, I’m in an instant conversation: “What makes you the mayor?” “That’s lame, I’m there way more than you” “What do you get for being mayor?”. Compare that to talking about Gowalla: “I just swapped this sticker of a bike for a sticker of a six pack of beer! What? Yes, I am still a virgin”.
mircea_popescu: See the difference? Make some aspect of your product easy and fun to talk about, and make it unique."
mircea_popescu: that's exactly not it. the difference is that the former STOLE something. a little bit of something, and something that wasn't well bolted down by a legal process. 300 years ago you'd go to jail for pretending to be the mayor ; even today you can go to jail for pretending to be a cop.
mircea_popescu: that's mostly what these things peddle : a particular sort of theft.
mircea_popescu: also why they're fundamentally worthless.
assbot: It's Not OK, OkCupid ... ( http://bit.ly/1RKOTrh )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353065 << 'v' lives and dies by detached signatures. and i'm not implementing payload mutilation in 'p.' and i won't be using anything that mutilates payloads if i can help it, ever.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:31:04; mircea_popescu: you see me using "detached signatures" ?
asciilifeform: 'clearsign' of whatever scheme for machine-readable data suxx.
asciilifeform: for entirely fundamental reasons,.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353071 << if you must have one file, gpg --armour it. or tar it. whatever.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:35:32; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353048 << no. this is a color of bits issue ; i couldn't care less what the technological constraints [appear to] be. a contract is a single item, not a text and a separate signature.
asciilifeform: but can we have a final bullet in the head of ascii mutilation and magical dashes ?
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with v as is.
mircea_popescu: but a gpg would-be replacement that doesn't have clearsign is not actually usable as a replacement
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353073 << not for any of my use cases. i wanna paste from a shell without unsheathing my pgptron
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:38:47; ben_vulpes: punkman, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: destestable though they may be for injecting state into the stateless protocol, would a single "signin" page with an assbot-style decryption of OTP that results in a session key authenticating the user to the perlwad be an improvement, and are there better solutions i'm not considering? anonymous drive-by pasting is not a better solution imho.
asciilifeform: and i don't see any reason to sign a disposable, ephemeral turd.
asciilifeform: i don't sign my farts either.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353078 << this works until usg or even a demented sysop is involved: you can derive pubkey from ciphertext
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 20:41:26; mircea_popescu: how about this : only accept gpg-encrypted communications, and only distribute the pubkey to people you like.
mircea_popescu: so i said.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353156 << it is worth thinking about ~why~ folks - including even mircea_popescu, yes - actually use pastebinatrons
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 21:08:22; mircea_popescu: in short, i wisened up to the fact that this particular thing is of the "go big or go home" variety and insistence on peculiar versions of small are a waste of time.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i started using it in b-a. it is, for me, a replacement of email.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353205 << or log in, or motherfucking decrypt anything, or hit more than one button !!1111
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 21:29:42; mircea_popescu: thinking about it : the one thing i like about dpaste in preference of uploading files is that i don't have to provide a filename.
asciilifeform: what's wrong with tar as a 'clearsign' bottle ?
mircea_popescu: i can't read tar.
asciilifeform: sure you can
asciilifeform: don't take my word for it. go dump a tar of ascii text to console
asciilifeform: perfectly readable.
mircea_popescu: you understand, i hope you do but if you don't i'll explain it, that the only - THE ONLY - reason for literacy is so you can read contracts.
mircea_popescu: if it were the case that contracts came in '|tar bottles" reading plain english would be as useful as reading latin.
mircea_popescu: and literacy would be defined as "reading tar"
mircea_popescu: do you ?
asciilifeform: literacy is already defined as 'reading this set of hieroglyphs'
mircea_popescu: so your idea of a working gpg is "everyone must learn new alphabet now" ?
mircea_popescu: it'd better not be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.00050428 = 39.8381 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: why the everloving fuck is sed -n '/\/start\//,/end/p' dump out the whole pipe instead of just the stuff between /start/ and end ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why did you escape out the fwdslashes ?
asciilifeform: sed -n '/start/,/end/p'
mircea_popescu: i want it to match /start/ not start
mircea_popescu: "for the obvious reason"
mircea_popescu: the #1 most frustrating thing known to man is when computers don't do what you expect them to do.
mircea_popescu: somehow more annoying than when women don't.
asciilifeform mildly horrified that mircea_popescu found himself doing this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i gotta keep up with you young folk!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32728 @ 0.00050512 = 16.5316 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: what am i to be like one of those us military base commanders that can't run a quarter mile ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you accept use of a token in headers for use from cli?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: wai wat
asciilifeform: i don't want to replace my toilet with an authenticated one, either, y'know ?
asciilifeform: i don't want to need to imprint turds with a seal before flushing.
ben_vulpes: that i understand.
asciilifeform: or sign every scrap of paper i put in the shredder
ben_vulpes: yes yes yes you drama queen
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.00050366 = 27.0969 BTC [-] {4}
ben_vulpes: i am just looking for a sane balance between toilet for the mob and useful tool for the wot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85650 @ 0.00050273 = 43.0588 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: trinque suggested not-trivially-enumerable endpoints for wotmembers, eg engage in a brief gpggram session one time, yields a wotpaste/my-difficult-to-enumerate-endpoint place for individuals to post textwads to
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20435 @ 0.00050263 = 10.2712 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73265 @ 0.00050123 = 36.7226 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sed -n '/\/start\//,/\/end\//p' will work, but it prints crud prior to start or after end ~if on same line~
asciilifeform: and what's more, afaik you cannot get around this in gnu sed.
asciilifeform: gotta use awk (or, horror, perl)
asciilifeform: because, again, the whole 'plain text' jwzism and the attendant retardation. somehow 'lines' are a thing.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: part of the appeal of running a 'pastebin' ~is~ the crud dropped in by the mob. for instance, there is a long tradition of dropping 0days and leaked misc crud on pastebin.
asciilifeform: and i still insist that the 'clearness' of 'clearsign' is a jwzism. NO YOU CAN'T actually read the payload 'without tools'. yes, you can put it to a line printer, and get a human-readable page. BUT it will not be WHAT YOU SIGNED! not bitwise, and not mandatorily, and therefore not at all.
asciilifeform: you still need a computer to read 'plain ascii'
asciilifeform: and we still don't have agreement - yes, even among unixlines - how to actually display 'plain text'
asciilifeform: or how to process it consistently
asciilifeform: *unixlikes
asciilifeform: this whole discussion, every time we have it, really mirrors in my mind the debates i've had with greyhaired non-programming folk who insisted on 'one day we will program in NATURAL LANGUAGE!11111'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00050593 = 44.0665 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: oook, anyone wanna guess what this does :
mircea_popescu: cat fucksticks.txt | sort -u | while read line; do curl -A "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0" --cookie "session=185406475447611750%3a13562327112394530656;secure_check=1;authlink=8e9808c6;__cfduid=de2158114156a0b38260969e145b2ca9e1450046931" "https://www.okcupid.com/profile/$line" | sed 's/profile_similar/\n\n/g' | sed 's/href/\n\n/g' | grep 'cf=' | grep "/profile/" | sed 's/="\
mircea_popescu: /profile\///g' | sed 's/?cf=//g' >> fucksticks.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, anyone bored can kill themselves figuring out why the fuck i have to do two passes of sed interspersed with a grep to get the dumbass thing to work as intended.
mircea_popescu: this is what programming is. fucking tarpit.
mircea_popescu: and you want me to read more tar ?
asciilifeform: in the same spirit, have another!:
asciilifeform: prints same with 'cat'
asciilifeform: entirely different contents.
asciilifeform: not mega-trick. but works.
asciilifeform: granted, hex editor will show you immediately why. but the 'plain text is readable without tools' illusion is - just that
mircea_popescu: a yea, iirc we even had a discussion about scripts doing ^H etc here, with a link and everything.
asciilifeform: possibly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22982 @ 0.00051011 = 11.7233 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: note however that you can't rely on me reading the "clearsigned" thing with any particular mechanism.
mircea_popescu: for all you know i do read it in a byte editor.
asciilifeform: at which point the supposed advantage of the 'plainness' is nowhere to be found
mircea_popescu: so this entire "unix terminal is retarded" thing isn't as much of a concern
mircea_popescu: how so ?
asciilifeform: because if you want to avoid 'malleability', now you have to actually use a tool that shows you the bytes.
asciilifeform: incl. the nonprintable ones.
mircea_popescu: ideally, clearsign would reject anything but ascii.
asciilifeform: well, it'd necessarily have to be more narrow than ascii
mircea_popescu: "these are your father's letters"
asciilifeform: (in having magical words)
asciilifeform: either the start/end marker (as in traditional gpg) or length offset marker (as somebody suggested here)
asciilifeform: but in no case could i be ~guaranteed~ of signing an arbitrary ascii string without mutilation
mircea_popescu: - is not ascii
asciilifeform: sure as fuck is
asciilifeform: unless they have a different character set on mars, also called ascii, where - is not 45
mircea_popescu: to put it sanely-er : i'm more than happy to redefine "ascii" for clearsign to include a subset of ascii
mircea_popescu: i lived just fine with telex.
asciilifeform looks forward to using mircea_popescu's p-block for telex clearsigs.
asciilifeform: in fact, whole point of 'p' originally in my head was so that mircea_popescu could have these.
mircea_popescu: honestly, in my mind i realise now, gpg --clearisng has taken over a hole left by telex.
mircea_popescu: quite exactly.
assbot: Cheshire's Introduction to Telex ... ( http://bit.ly/22s8KPE )
assbot: Baudot Character Code Reference ... ( http://bit.ly/22s8PTk )
mircea_popescu: some telex machines were distinctive enough that after years one could really tell wtf the message says from across the room
mircea_popescu: sorta between morse and slow modem
asciilifeform: mechanized morse really
mircea_popescu: pretty much
mircea_popescu: "fire lizzie, too many holes"
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo is anybody gonna qntra the juniper crud ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz,
asciilifeform: 'The Committee supports substantially enhancing and expediting efforts to deter the insider threat and believes doing so will require an integrated counterintelligence and security apparatus that spans the IC and the U.S. Government. Additionally, the Committee believes the IC's information technology modernization effort--the IC Information Technology Enterprise--must provide the infrastructure to detect insider threats earli
asciilifeform: er, more effectively, and more reliably. (See page 24 for more information on the IC Information Technology Enterprise, otherwise known as ``IC ITE.'') Robust counterintelligence data and analytic tools to monitor, analyze, and audit personnel behavior will be critical to this endeavor.'
asciilifeform: can't wait for the politruks !
mircea_popescu: mmmkay...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.00050123 = 11.3278 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up okcupidslut
assbot: I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MQMd6w )
mircea_popescu: put 94fc74e8 on yer maidenly bosom.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141100 @ 0.00050046 = 70.6149 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70193 @ 0.00049984 = 35.0853 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: ahahaha that's some rearview mirror work okcupidslut
asciilifeform: what is this headless chimera.
mircea_popescu: the problem is you dun seem to have a head ?
asciilifeform: marie antoinette.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4769 @ 0.00049968 = 2.383 BTC [-] {2}
okcupidslut: ehh, but my face looks like it got hit by a car atm. Aint nothing pretty about that.
mircea_popescu: makes no diff.
mircea_popescu: the problem with headless pics is that well... they'll just get reused later by $randomscammer$
mircea_popescu: how did that line go... #bitcoin-assets is about truth not necessarily beauty.
okcupidslut: ahah, give me some minutes then.
mircea_popescu: !up okcupidslut
mircea_popescu: !up okcupidslut
mircea_popescu: !up okcupidslut
mircea_popescu: dat nordic system and its accomplishments!
mircea_popescu: cute. address ?
shinohai: She left. Free tits!
mircea_popescu: lol nah.
thestringpuller: is the ddos machine on or something?
mircea_popescu: no, just, everyone in norway's got their ac on so the power grid goes out.
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
assbot: [BTC-dev] AWS Banhammer ... ( http://bit.ly/1OdZBUM )
mircea_popescu: okcupidslut what's your bitcoin address ?
ben_vulpes: achtung achtung
mircea_popescu: nice alfie.
shinohai: ty asciilifeform
okcupidslut: 18gA2wFgQzn4ZG397PakxRoYEwktZ28uFz
thestringpuller: why all the hate on AWS?
assbot: Logged on 23-12-2015 02:56:57; asciilifeform: incidentally, zoolag is under heavy and modestly-clever ddos
asciilifeform: this plus the fact that there is no meaningful collateral damage
asciilifeform: because a 'cloud' node is a pseudonode.
thestringpuller: and a node run on hardware in a datacenter is not?
asciilifeform: not normally, no.
ben_vulpes: and you propose to identify all such virtualized nodes somehow?
ben_vulpes: what next, rackspace?
mircea_popescu: no, he just proposes to whack some more obvious ones.
ben_vulpes: "enumerating badness"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: by no means. but why permit known and exhaustively-catalogued rubbish ?
asciilifeform: presently it is the most pestilential variety of rubbish
asciilifeform: on account of the 'easy & cheap'
thestringpuller: easy yes, cheap no.
ben_vulpes: notrly the latter.
mircea_popescu: i actually support throwing a spoke or three in the expectation of jwz that "struff works"
asciilifeform: when rackspace starts handing out vm to reddit k00l d00dz for a penny/hour, i'll ban it.
mircea_popescu: a lot more of this "oh, you're on aws ? well... you can't do X" stuff is sorely needed.
mircea_popescu: time to turn the tables on the golum.
mircea_popescu: or as that kid aptly said (in american history X), "on the internet, YOU'RE the nigger."
thestringpuller: didn't that kid end up getting shot/stabbed in the bathroom?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the correct 'non-enumerative badness' expression is, ultimately, 'don't give cpu cycles out to all-comers'
asciilifeform: but we aren't there yet.
thestringpuller: well i guess I'm moving my nodes to google cloud
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.0005093 = 33.5119 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: haha were you on aws ?
thestringpuller: one of my nodes was.
thestringpuller: well the "working" one.
mircea_popescu: honestly, you're better off getting a decent server you actually control for your node than getting a bunch of aws/such crap
thestringpuller: I have one in my basement.
thestringpuller: But it's being obstinent right now.
thestringpuller: I attempted to create an insane robot, and I succeeded.
mircea_popescu: hey, some people gotta get married for that.
asciilifeform: aws ban hammer enabled on all 3 of my nodez now.
asciilifeform: doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db
asciilifeform: and has effect beyond one particular node.
asciilifeform: isolate the idiots, when they do the kindness of making this so convenient.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell BingoBoingo is anybody gonna qntra the juniper crud ? << If they want to. I dunno if I can do it justice.
asciilifeform: and does that count as a legible string ?
mircea_popescu: not all kittens are the same kitten alfie!
mircea_popescu: there's a sack fulla kittens out there.
asciilifeform: 'in the dark, all cats are black' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: and, apparently, through chinese 320x200 cam also..
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db << Apparently 21.co is too good for aws <asciilifeform> doing this will keep the turd nodez out of the addr.db
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeJp6j )
assbot: BTCC Deploys 100 Full Bitcoin Nodes Across Five Continents | Virtual-Strategy Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1Oe14KJ )
shinohai: lmao 263 XT nodez
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1YH6y1Y )
BingoBoingo: AWS!!!
thestringpuller: 'in the dark, all cats are black' (tm) (r) << or as the negros sometime say. All pussy feels the same with the lights out.
asciilifeform: dns seeds << l0l
BingoBoingo going to have to try translating asciilifeform's AWS block rules to pf
BingoBoingo: brb, meeting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00051015 = 21.3243 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39538 @ 0.00051015 = 20.1703 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: kakobrekla et al: zoolag will be going down for ssd upgrade starting now and ending with a few hrs later
assbot: It's Not OK, OkCupid • I just hope my fetish with cheese does not disturb... ... ( http://bit.ly/1NGa2il )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66750 @ 0.00051015 = 34.0525 BTC [+]
asciilifeform looks at shelf, misreads 'applied cryptography' as 'applied coprophagy'
mircea_popescu: your shelf's fulla shit
asciilifeform: 'tis so.
asciilifeform: there's mebbe half a tonne of horror show in 3-rings just in this room
asciilifeform: e.g. a '90s xerox of the complete works of trofim denisovich lysenko.
mircea_popescu: ahahah but why
asciilifeform: because haven't thrown it out yet ?
asciilifeform: why else.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mod6 my pleasure and thanks for the correction. i was confusing december 19th entries, it seems. i've updated that section of the trb timeline accordingly.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform ben_vulpes et al. i also found an even ~earlier~ mention by mircea_popescu of the "0.6.x is the last useable version" line in the sand : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-02-2014#499837
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 03:43:52; mircea_popescu: the resultant mess is unusable past about 0.6.x or thereabouts, for these reasons.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla et al: zoolag is back.
asciilifeform: now with 4x the disk at 2x the speed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8216 @ 0.00050996 = 4.1898 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-12-2015#1353165 << without reading it, lemme go out on a limb and hazard a guess that 'nudge tsar' cass sunstein is somehow involved.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 21:13:38; ben_vulpes: http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/10/obamas-effort-to-nudge-america-000276 << in which the department of statistics completely forgets about the challenges of untangling correlation from causation
ben_vulpes: and yet somehow trb forked from 0.5.3
pete_dushenski unwraps present, finds that, indeed, sunstein is the rattle he heard in the box
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: pretty sure he brought it up in 2013 not long after i started reading
asciilifeform: 'Qt uses C++ with signals and slotsxiv to provide a cross-platform application framework for, essentially, illiterate amateurs.' << unfortunately this is not so
asciilifeform: it is the ~only~ remaining working cross-platform native-widget graphic lib for cpp.
asciilifeform: (there is/was also 'wx' but it is a shambles)
pete_dushenski: duly noted.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you know what version was actually released by the phoundation in june 2012, your requested vintage ? 0.6.3
pete_dushenski: 0.5.3 was released in march 2012
assbot: Bitcoin-Qt version 0.5.3 released ... ( http://bit.ly/1NPwG5I )
assbot: Bitcoin-Qt version 0.6.3 released ... ( http://bit.ly/1NPwDH8 )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i think pete_dushenski was trying to write a history of trb ?
asciilifeform: (premature, imho, but whatever)
pete_dushenski: bitcoin compresses time.
pete_dushenski: 1.25 years of development of trb is equivalent to multiples of that in row
ben_vulpes: anyways, the point remains. mircea_popescu did not select 0.5.3 as the root fork point.
asciilifeform: does anybody else find it lulzy that there are actually 2 trb's ?
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:20:11; mircea_popescu: https://codeload.github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/legacy.tar.gz/v0.6.3 etc
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:20:41; ben_vulpes: ya got it
asciilifeform: and the only fella who's seen both is mircea_popescu
pete_dushenski: one pdp, one unixbox
asciilifeform: (though who knows whether his phriendz who worked on mircea_popescucoin may also be lurking)
ben_vulpes: i'd love to hear how he got the mysterious, yes phriendz, rolled in.
ben_vulpes: mostly to dismiss my own hypotheses
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they're prlly bound by omerta
ben_vulpes: well ofc
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: btw didja see the link to your summary of changes article ?
ben_vulpes: oh it /was/ in there the first time?
pete_dushenski: all along dude :)
pete_dushenski: who do you think i am ?
ben_vulpes: i saw material factual mistakes and kinda checked out.
ben_vulpes: did you include a link to my version of the same piece that you wrote?
pete_dushenski: mnope. that one has a larger breadth than contravex trb timleline part i could handle. maybe in part ii.
pete_dushenski: timeline*
pete_dushenski: oh and joyeux noel everyone !
ben_vulpes: well don't get in the habit of failing to cite sources.
pete_dushenski: ok jewmom.
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 447.33, Best ask: 447.45, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 447.39, 24 hour volume: 16823.41469156, 24 hour low: 445.0, 24 hour high: 460.05, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: another thing. the 'upgrade needed' message is distinct from the turdmeister alert
assbot: Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1QNa3F9 )
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the latter was the gavinalert thing and i killed it long ago, yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46958 @ 0.00050996 = 23.9467 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: for the slightly inept, what's the difference between gavinalert and upgradealert ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: read the link
pete_dushenski: "invalidchainfound" ?
ben_vulpes: oh ffs whose idea was it to migrate from 'fpr' to something else in gnupg 2?
ben_vulpes: fingerprint.
ben_vulpes: --with-colons
asciilifeform: vs what
ben_vulpes: (which itself a magical hellhole of stupidity)
ben_vulpes: it appears
ben_vulpes: ah no. nm. all my dumb ass.
phf: paste text to b-a-paste, manually post url to log, unless post is in the logs, it's auto expired after n hours
ben_vulpes: more state, huh?
phf: yeah, basically requires you to periodically pull kako logs, but that does close the "open to mob" hole
phf: it's a pretty laid back option though, you're basically accepting as much third party crud as any regular paste service, but there's a gc that ties the whole thing to log, and culls the turds
ben_vulpes: notbad no
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 750 @ 0.00240888 = 1.8067 BTC [+] {6}
kakobrekla: you gonna keep 100+ megs of logs to save up a few kbs of space?
mircea_popescu: phf iirc dpaste expire in a week anyway
ben_vulpes: you can get it to do up to a year
kakobrekla: by default, max is 1 year
kakobrekla: anyway space is cheap these days.
mircea_popescu: so it is.
phf: i think it's ascii's purity concern, rather then space as such. why host someone else's graffiti, etc.
kakobrekla: allocate 1% of the blockchain size and you are good for many years.
mircea_popescu: this all depends on usecase.
assbot: Logged on 26-12-2015 04:48:32; phf: i think it's ascii's purity concern, rather then space as such. why host someone else's graffiti, etc.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2015 23:15:12; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: part of the appeal of running a 'pastebin' ~is~ the crud dropped in by the mob. for instance, there is a long tradition of dropping 0days and leaked misc crud on pastebin.
ben_vulpes: this is an argument for filtering the seawter for gold.
ben_vulpes: seawater*
kakobrekla: and it makes the immutability depended on assbot
kakobrekla: dependent
kakobrekla: anyway off to bed.
ben_vulpes: wall scribblings meant for the ages should to into deedbot-, no?
asciilifeform: and phf's idea doesn't require any complex state
asciilifeform: every 24h cron greps the day's log for a link to the post, if doesn't find - deletes.
asciilifeform: and anyone can post.
asciilifeform: (if ~does~ find - copies to perma-dir)
mircea_popescu: "Realtime Worlds is the brainchild of Dave Jones, the creator of Lemmings and one of the few people who can claim legitimately to have been involved in the Grand Theft Auto series since the early days."
assbot: Hubris, ambition and mismanagement: the first post-mortem of RealTime Worlds - Gamesbrief - Gamesbrief ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuWIOM )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how's that different from what we have now ?
pete_dushenski: "The only eyewitness identifications that I can find speak of three white men." http://www.unz.com/article/what-really-happened-in-san-bernardino/ << funny, y'know i also recall the early reports being "shooting by three white men in army fatigues" or some such.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have no such thing now
mircea_popescu: assbot puts out the archive.is thing, if anyone cliocks that, permadir.
mircea_popescu: if nobody clicks, whatever.
asciilifeform: i can't pipe text into archive.is from a shell !!
mircea_popescu: again : you put the link in the log
mircea_popescu: assbot creates the archive link
asciilifeform: we were, i think, talking about a 'pastebin'
asciilifeform: where i can, e.g., './foo.pl | pastebinatron' and get a link
mircea_popescu: so ./foo.pl curl http://dpaste.com or w/e ?
assbot: dpaste: New ... ( http://bit.ly/1mj4FMJ )
asciilifeform: aha but dpaste is lame
asciilifeform: because 1) not ours 2) not ours 3) mutilates text 4) idiot highlighting
mircea_popescu: ok so then ./foo.pl ssh-to-where-ascii-keeps-things
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