Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-03-04 | 2015-03-06 → ↓
asciilifeform has buffett 'symlinked' mentally with armand hammer. and wonders if there is any logical reason for this
decimation: nevertheless, I take your point that the study of this history is worthwhile
BingoBoingo: decimation: Crassus was the Fire department
mircea_popescu: decimation in particular, the us fed was an attempt to copy germany, at the time extremely effectual.
decimation: although I don't know how one could find a history that isn't wrapped in progressive bullshit
mircea_popescu: it's easy to recast today as some sort of nefariousness, but if regarded properly rather than anchronistically it's just exactly the same as imperial russians trying to copy prussia.
mircea_popescu: at the time, in fact, the us and russia had a shitload in common : inept peripheral immense landmasses.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the same problems, the same solutions, the same obsession of women with french and men with german shit and so on.
mircea_popescu: nobody has made a "Russia and the US in the 1800s : A Tale Of Twin Sisters" monograph to date
asciilifeform: aaactually
mircea_popescu: this merely speaks to the poor quality of english "historians". where's the new york gibbon ?
asciilifeform: plenty of (otherwise uninteresting, believe) sov. tracts re: analogy b/w us slavery & ru serf-keeping
asciilifeform: and the decline of each
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform russian side is a little better represented, but not much.
decimation: the historians who would be worth a shit are probably busy trying to keep their house and eat
mircea_popescu: so did gibbon.
mircea_popescu: he ALSO did the rise and fall.
BingoBoingo maybe surprisingly would still be willing to carry a rifle to tikrit in USia's name. Just since USia didn't accept my flirtations last time if they take me this time I want to pick the rifle.
mircea_popescu: life's what happens while people had other plans, an' posteriority remembers what you did BESIDES paying the bills.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: last i checked usg will enlist just about anyone under fifty or so
BingoBoingo: Sand niggers are still a species of nigger
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They spotted me the last time with a specific mental defect they refuse to abide
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried the private sector ?
asciilifeform: (i.e. the twenty thousand)
mircea_popescu: you can probably make decent loot with the various brackwaters.
asciilifeform: though last i heard they're pretty well staffed and get picky
asciilifeform: (preferring folks schooled in the normal army for a tour or three)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The fucking local mall turned me down last X-mas season. Not any specific vendor, but all of them.
BingoBoingo: I've a cousin who did some bracjwasser stuff
mircea_popescu: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00027068 / 0.00027314 / 0.000301 (17082 shares, 4.67 BTC), 30D: 0.00021897 / 0.0002619 / 0.000301 (62444 shares, 16.35 BTC)
BingoBoingo: Was bored, but at least he wasn't on a boat which was his greatest fear as a marine
mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00035809 / 0.00038073 / 0.00040007 (2565886 shares, 976.92 BTC), 7D: 0.00033798 / 0.00039508 / 0.00044462 (26732598 shares, 10,561.55 BTC), 30D: 0.00033798 / 0.00040005 / 0.00048515 (88726595 shares, 35,495.37 BTC)
mircea_popescu: howly shit this is actually possibru o.O
mircea_popescu: god dangit.
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 271.49, Best ask: 271.6, Bid-ask spread: 0.11000, Last trade: 271.59, 24 hour volume: 67948.14967978, 24 hour low: 267.0, 24 hour high: 285.99, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: qntra shares face scarcity necessarily
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah but still.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Over time total new s.qntr per month is on a downward trend becasuse refinement
BingoBoingo: Each scam is only worth so many textual bullets
mircea_popescu: not a bad thing that, anywya.
mircea_popescu: more words < better words.
BingoBoingo: And if it wasn't for Moxenslit I wouls have been 1400 less words last month, but eulogy
[]bot: Bet created: "Qntra to the moon" http://bitbet.us/bet/1127/
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But if brackwasser wants my hands they cn knock on my door as the FBI and Treasury department did.
BingoBoingo: Maybe they can actually hold together ling enough to submit a bid.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol, right after i get conscripted to nsa sharashka
asciilifeform: and ben_vulpes - to the ministry of wunderwaffen rocketeers
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your plague is high standards. So long as their only demand is I shoot brown people, then I and them will be fine.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
BingoBoingo: Vexual: I am way too drunk atm for PM's
mircea_popescu: Vexual you know, iranians are white.
mircea_popescu: and the chicks are pretty.
BingoBoingo: Iranians could totally get the dick.
mircea_popescu: i think they stole more circassians than the dutch stole africans.
mircea_popescu: were at it for far longer, that's for sure.
asciilifeform refrains from going into deep tangent re: how iran may well have joined euro camp rather than descending into strange if it hadn't been spat upon as 'eastern monkeys' when tried
BingoBoingo: As a USian I have to assume ISIS must be bad, and therefore Obumer sucks for not letting me take potshots at them.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Iran has always been more ready then the turks
asciilifeform: see, for instance, the story regarding the composition of their not-quite-national-anthem 'ey iran' - sorta their equiv. of 'america the beautiful'
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought iran went apeshit because of the british and us meddling
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: i was nearly disowned from marching band at one time for insisting on continuance to Star Spangled Banner's 3rd verse
decimation: BingoBoingo: should have sang the 'La Marseillaise'
BingoBoingo: decimation: I am not of Jurov's interface preferences
cazalla: damn, you piss heads are tempting me to drink now
asciilifeform: would american schoolboys even recognize it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00037373 = 6.0918 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Seriouly though if USia offered me a mosin in exchange for 45 minutes at the ISIS border bleaching browns... I'd take that
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They would not
decimation: BingoBoingo: this is roughly why usg is still in business
decimation: rivers of meat are still ready to serve
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo dreamt all his life of an infantry career? mud, guts, the works ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They would recognize te sovient national anthem though given a picture of sean connery
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041914 << lol this dood's something else. who the fuck was banned, even ?!
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 19:37:51; danielpbarron: yeah, prepare to be hated and banned
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And yet it was my temporal lobes that betrayed me
mircea_popescu: anyway, this ssd kid is abso-fucking-lutely endearing.
mircea_popescu: anyone even know who he is ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Has #b-a actually banned ever?
mircea_popescu: well join/part spam, yeah
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: best I can tell they were anb honest n00b
mircea_popescu: but that gets undone on a "hey, i fixed it!"
asciilifeform: peculiarly radiation-damaged n00b
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo pity they never reg'd now it'll be damned hard to make the link.
asciilifeform: too many limbs of one type, too few - of other, wrong directions attached
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read almost the whole thing, i fail to see anything to indicate anything wrong with him.
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: is still welcome to my ear. Maybe I misse dsome other subject
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell sjsqd You are a crisis nao
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nothing malicious about the poor bugger, just the fact of having all of the traditional misconceptions ('i'll use my phone', 'let's try the Cloud', etc.)
mircea_popescu: kinda funny, yeah.
decimation: asciilifeform: how did you find that 'new lamer' guy? incoming links?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That, plus their poor timing
asciilifeform: decimation: machine logs
mircea_popescu: but children are born thus. the infrastructure if you wish. the pulmonary shunt.
mircea_popescu: it serves a purpose
BingoBoingo: Last year...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00037056 = 3.6871 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: I feel sorry for the poor guy, his heart is in the right place but he has no idea what kind of elephant he is trying to eat
cazalla: BingoBoingo, what ya drinking, vodka?
mircea_popescu: aww and all the hate he's getting.
mircea_popescu: mats whay so mean dood!
BingoBoingo: decimation: The solution is not shooting him yet, but giving him a historical cadaver to explore
asciilifeform: dubai (his claimed home) is an interesting place. haven't had to go there myself yet, but have a friend who regularly visits. has stories
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at some point in the 90s knew a whole bunch of chicks who technically lived there
mircea_popescu: came back home "to study" 9 months in the year, hung out with husband over summer.
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Yes. Not vodka really. Just plain grain alcohol... and time... and dreams... of USia giving me brown people as a target...
cazalla: BingoBoingo, believe it or not, i've yet to imbibe this month but you're encouraging.. so
decimation: the arabs import everything, food, women, work
asciilifeform: the one thing i've always wondered about dubai is what the owners actually -do- (vs have others do)
asciilifeform: but iirc the prophet never forbade coke
decimation: asciilifeform: if they are gentlemen scholars they don't seem to publish in english
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently they're very insecure people, spend a lot of time wondering.
assbot: Minnesota college tragedies: Drunk, frozen and underage | Star Tribune ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sg5B2 )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041934 o.O didn't know petey's fluent in russians.
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 19:43:17; pete_dushenski: now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/
assbot: Fire in a Dubai building disrupts Dubai Metro operations | GulfNews.com ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sg9Rh )
mircea_popescu: a nm, french version
decimation: asciilifeform: video of the fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9djyhXo_k50
assbot: Tallest Residential Building on Fire - Dubai - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18Sgvax )
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 19:53:30; assbot: I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T
mircea_popescu: holy shit who does these things
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042688 << i meant banned from whatever venues he came from if he starts writing about b-a
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 05:30:37; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041914 << lol this dood's something else. who the fuck was banned, even ?!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041957 << there's http://minigame.bz/eulora/binaries/ but otherwise the idea is for wikis etc to be community maintained.
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 19:56:49; PeterL: does Eulora have an official website?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron oh. yeah, i guess so.
mircea_popescu: artifexd ^ i would hope you won't have that problem ? :D
asciilifeform mumbles something regarding nonexistence of kitchens with single cockroaches
BingoBoingo wonders why USG won't consider cost effective ISIS solutions
asciilifeform: ^ subject to the standard 'unexpected hanging theorem' disclaimer
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 20:11:02; asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts
danielpbarron: the reason i didn't clarify at the time was that i kinda hope he does go and write a LTBarticle about this place and get himself banned from "the community"
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i think it's at breaking point, that "community"
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: That is neither a problem nor a lack therof
mircea_popescu: treason's only a hanging offence originally. soon enough...
danielpbarron: it would be good for him to get ejected from their midst
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: So your disagreement relatred ratings
mircea_popescu: i kinda expect ejection in droves during the year.
danielpbarron: don't take my word for it, sort of thing
asciilifeform: it's at breaking point << it's been carrying on a happy 'life' of the undead zombie for quite some time, rotting, culturing maggots & worms, throwing chunks of flesh at bystanders
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly, no.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Contrast the case of 'Rozal'
danielpbarron: i gave rozal -10 for being a self described liar, and some others got a -1 or -2 for striking me as sketchy..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's alive for the purpose of usg stooges being able to 'talk about bitcoin' without mentioning #b-a ever
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 20:13:24; asciilifeform: there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you
decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-04/how-a-25-year-old-investor-spurred-lumber-liquidators-plunge < apparently the new investing hotness is to short a company and then throw it into the usg woodchipper
assbot: How a 25-Year-Old Sparked Lumber Liquidators’ Stock Plunge - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/18l0LLQ )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's 100% free online, too
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think your view of what is after all a natural process is too informed by categorical logic.
asciilifeform: (common lisp has a standard-cum-rationale and it isn't quite as deliciously readable)
mircea_popescu: real objects can of course never be categorically anything.
asciilifeform: but similar
asciilifeform: too informed by categorical logic... real objects can of course never be categorically anything << guilty. professional disease.
mircea_popescu: nttawwi.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You initially gave him a small negative rating out of dislike and it was described as such. I hung him for fabricating allegations of theft.
danielpbarron: what is the point of -10 if not for also having access to the other integers between it and 0
asciilifeform: am i alone in using wot as was originally taught, 'level of confidence that this key represents person who is what they wish to believe us they are' ?
mircea_popescu: holy shit 2k lines that aren't your own are hard as fucking coffin nails
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: For the dark mark. He got -10 for most grevious crime
asciilifeform: *what they wish us to believe they are
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. wot is "level of confidence i have a complete picture of this person"
BingoBoingo: ;;rated Rozal
gribble: You rated user Rozal on Mon Jan 19 12:09:29 2015, with a rating of -10, and supplied these additional notes: Fabricated theft allegations http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/Rozal_allegation Confessed http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2015#983318 Full Indictment http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/Rozal_Indictment.
assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18l11un )
asciilifeform: ^^ aha that one
asciilifeform: spamatron
mircea_popescu: but... why an url ?!
asciilifeform: particularly in the case of certain demented browsers that pipe url bar contents into search engine under certain conditions
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider - how did you even discover that page
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 21:15:54; bitstein: This is pretty lulzy: https://github.com/jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i had no idea trilema is THAT googled.
asciilifeform: eth-neg << do you wonder why it was disclosed for bounty? rather than being used to shoot the thing in the head
asciilifeform: as it quite certainly could have been
mircea_popescu: because the thing is worthless ?
asciilifeform: (my hypothesis, simple: because eth. isn't alive and cannot be killed by shooting in the head. like 'redphone' and 'silent circle')
asciilifeform: 1000 'fatal' bugs will be found, if it carries on long enough, and will make no difference.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/a-sjsqd-walks-into-a-pub/
BingoBoingo: PeterL I would much prefer to read an article than to listen to some guy talking. << And this is how the world ends. Not with a whimper, but with a 7.62x54R bang
asciilifeform thought it ends with the 'schpokk' of nailgun
mircea_popescu: artifexd lolk took 3 passes but bwahahaha
artifexd: I'm pretty heads down on it so 1) I am falling very behind on logs and 2) I'm not hanging out in here
mircea_popescu: makes sense.
artifexd: But, I do get pinged if my name shows up and I don't want y'all to think it has been forgotten.
mircea_popescu: got pinged because of the go http debacle
mircea_popescu: two lines up from where you were pinged
asciilifeform: not that widget, as specced, uses http/s for anything
artifexd: While interesting, that doesn't affect gossipd because I'm using lower level networking.
asciilifeform: but it is precisely the kind of thing one gets when using turdlangs
asciilifeform: esp. ones where 'omg111!!11 rich libraries, they do everything'
danielpbarron: Funny how not long it takes the Christian to start a holy war upon the poor Arab! << LOL, I honestly didn't even consider his ethnicity; I have a /stab alias for when people annoy me
mircea_popescu: i enjoy opportunities to poke at people
artifexd: Oh, actually that is complaining about one of the golang tools. And it would be dangerous if you had a MITM that could swap out code inflight and were importing external code directly.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Golang seems to have a lot of those holes
BingoBoingo adires tedu as guy aho makes bullshit mor menory safe, questions... the rest pf the corpus
decimation: asciilifeform: I assume you saw the sudden freakout over hilariously weak crypto implemented by spec in SSL?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00037132 = 3.7875 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37650 @ 0.00037062 = 13.9538 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3058 @ 0.00037051 = 1.133 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00037035 = 4.5553 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/#footnote_2_2919 << belive it or not that'd actually be ecdsa rather than simple transposition.
assbot: Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1zMWtU8 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7923 @ 0.00038223 = 3.0284 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00037275 = 5.7217 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00036892 = 4.0028 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Mexican Cartels Enslave Engineers to Build Radio Network | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoFXzD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31726 @ 0.00038373 = 12.1742 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Sixteen Years | MetaTalk ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoI5Yk )
punkman: when did they throw away the old cozy design...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00037403 = 2.0572 BTC [-]
punkman: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 272.63, Best ask: 272.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 272.7, 24 hour volume: 64140.20713433, 24 hour low: 267.0, 24 hour high: 285.99, 24 hour vwap: None
punkman: gribble doesn't like buttstamp anymore?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00038422 = 1.5369 BTC [+]
assbot: Join Us on March 8th for Bitcoin Women's Day - Digital Currency Council ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoJT3p )
assbot: INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'S DAY 2015 Theme: Make It Happen ... ( http://bit.ly/1EoK7HN )
cazalla: punkman, i've made my contribution, have you? https://twitter.com/captaincazalla/status/573396933793857536
assbot: Bitcoin needs more women! To that end, women can earn their first 0.1 BTC right here! http://t.co/jkfTtJ6tS3 /hashtag/MakeItHappen?src=hash /hashtag/BitcoinWomensDay?src=hash
punkman: cazalla, I will contribute by only using purple sex toys on the girl
punkman: it's the color of equality
cazalla: that's a real thing lol?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00037403 = 8.3409 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: cazalla what's "women's day" got to do with "digital currency" w/e the shit that means.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6575 @ 0.00037706 = 2.4792 BTC [+]
cazalla: mircea_popescu, seems an opportunity for them to stick their dcc branded shit next to an even bigger shittier brand, that being international wimminz day
mircea_popescu: totally this is the way to success.
mircea_popescu: keep keeping the magic buttons next to other magic buttons so the magic keeps infusing from one to the other and multiplying and shit.
mircea_popescu: soon enough they'll have enough mana stored up to resurect zig ziggler
mircea_popescu: and bring about three apocalypses for the low low price of 19.95
mircea_popescu: but wait! there's more!
mircea_popescu: if you apocalypse now you also get this free set of dragonbane absolutely free!
mircea_popescu: (retail value of 49.95)
cazalla: that's some steak knife
mircea_popescu: PLUS! if you only use purple toys on the girl you get a bactericide cream for the vajayjay ABSOLUTELY FREE
mircea_popescu: "While Amin's articles, author profile at Coin Brief and twitter account have since been deleted, a copy of his author archive at Coin Brief remains available via Google cache and is mirrored here."
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would people do this. doesn't it stand to reason it's interesting now ? why delete it ?
mircea_popescu: lol twitter murdered bryce weiner ? ahaha
cazalla: i know eh, his site has been mentioned in the wapo, cnn.. and he goes and deletes it lol
cazalla: the guys content that is, not the site itself
mircea_popescu: anyway, since this is such a big deal (!?), anyone know of some of these isis reddit users ?
mircea_popescu: we could have a script to changetip them fiddy satoshi till the cows come home
mircea_popescu: or whatever, the bruhaha makes me want to send usd to isis now. how do i go about it ?
mircea_popescu: preferably using coinbase.
cazalla: nope, but i'd laugh if they began to include a QR code in their head chop videos
cazalla: donate x amount of BTC to see this guy go free by such and such date
mircea_popescu: totally.
mircea_popescu: they could have a "vote how the guy dies".
mircea_popescu: <10 btc, beheaded. < 100 btc, stabbed in esophagus. etc.
cazalla: perhaps a custom video for the largest changetipper
mircea_popescu: 100 btc guy goes free (o oops, a DIFFERENT group got him just as he was leaving our compound)
cazalla: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, the recently failed megaoffensive on tikrit produced from what i hear a good few thousands prisoners
mircea_popescu: no better time to turn usg agents into camwhores.
mircea_popescu: the eventual fate of everyone working for that thing anyway, why wait.
mircea_popescu: "pay $50 to watch pvt 1st class joshua cooper learn to give oral pleasure to Berg, the great dane"
cazalla: i believe the aussie pm send 300 soliders to join the fight these past few days
cazalla: sent*.. i'm not even drinking yet speak the engrish
cazalla: i'm not so sure the great dane shit would be that popular
mircea_popescu: well whatcha gonna do, gayness is not allowed i think ?
cazalla: i dunno, the egyptian pilot who got toasty'd was quite popular
fluffypony: [11:05:44] <+mircea_popescu>lol twitter murdered bryce weiner ? ahaha <- lol, anyone know what the story is?
cazalla: 3D!
mircea_popescu: anyway, if isis had any sense they'd just steal the liveshow format. what's that thing called where they put x guys in a house ?
mircea_popescu: except do it right, give them knives.
cazalla: he change tipped an alleged isis twitter account fluffypony lol
mircea_popescu: fluffypony top story on qntra atm
fluffypony: hah hah
cazalla: mircea_popescu, big brother
fluffypony checks
mircea_popescu: cazalla tya that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if there's an official isis accounts list somewhere, i'm totally game to send them whatever 0.0050 cents or w/e changetip does.
cazalla: there probably is somewhere
cazalla: can't say i'm keen to be the first aussie bitcoiner nailed to the cross for simply mentioning bitcoin and ISIS in the same sentence though..
cazalla: the cops already shut down an arterial road a few suburbs over this afternoon because some guy dared shoot annoying birds with an air rifle
assbot: Police close roads, gunman in Toorak Road, South Yarra ... ( http://bit.ly/1zZQIU8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19550 @ 0.00037462 = 7.3238 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: the very idea that police may even close roads...
mircea_popescu: this is rebellion outright.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00037578 = 1.6346 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.0003875 = 9.3388 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15661 @ 0.00036807 = 5.7643 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00038973 = 3.4101 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00036786 = 4.9661 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up sjsqd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8817 @ 0.00038973 = 3.4362 BTC [+]
cazalla: sjsqd, ya back!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.04232399 = 1.2697 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 105 @ 0.012 = 1.26 BTC [+]
sjsqd: sorry afk have to visit family
mircea_popescu: o.O havelock returns ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00038874 = 4.5871 BTC [-] {3}
cazalla: saw a few trades earlier
cazalla: !up sjsqd
cazalla: btw sjsqd, are you indian?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.0421 = 2.105 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Because it is endangered and endemic to the area, development projects have been restricted to preserve its habitat. For example, the Dickey-Lincoln dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on the upper Saint John River in 1974, was deauthorized by Congress in 1986 after years of study, because the dam would have flooded 88,000 acres (360 km2) of Maine forest and severely reduced the lousewort's habitat. Some
mircea_popescu: criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; Time magazine called the idea "downright silly" in 1977. While thought extinct at the time the dam was proposed, it was rediscovered in 1976 by C.D. Richards while doing surveys to determine the environmental impact of the dam.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00036464 = 4.1751 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2015#1042884 << they don't want your usary scrip, isiscoin uses PoAu
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 09:09:14; mircea_popescu: or whatever, the bruhaha makes me want to send usd to isis now. how do i go about it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00038482 = 1.7317 BTC [+]
assbot: Russian Lawmaker: Bitcoin is a CIA Conspiracy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fd7rXE )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00039692 = 5.5569 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16166 @ 0.00039865 = 6.4446 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00038238 = 4.2062 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00038032 = 2.4531 BTC [-]
punkman: mircea_popescu: criticized ending the dam project to protect the lousewort; << who the fuck cares about the lousewort
punkman: flooding a nice forest probably not the best idea, but their argument rests on lousewort?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4050 @ 0.00039941 = 1.6176 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00038032 = 4.8871 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 67 @ 0.04152686 = 2.7823 BTC [-] {3}
danielpbarron: height=252240 vs height=199051 (usb3: height=234650)
[]bot: Bet placed: 15.19171 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 81.3105122 BTC. Current weight: 72,803.
danielpbarron: !up irdial
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 73 @ 0.04116602 = 3.0051 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 90 @ 0.012 = 1.08 BTC [+]
assbot: rate-limiting anonymous accounts | discrete blogarithm ... ( http://bit.ly/1DPuaH5 )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 47 @ 0.04101 = 1.9275 BTC [-]
punkman: unload that AM1 while havelol is still up!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38294 @ 0.00039953 = 15.2996 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12356 @ 0.00040014 = 4.9441 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00038279 = 5.0145 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 72 @ 0.04101 = 2.9527 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00038654 = 2.9377 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24420 @ 0.00037638 = 9.1912 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00036735 = 3.8204 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 250 @ 0.00463785 = 1.1595 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.0003833 = 2.4915 BTC [+] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.02 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 82.3305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,680.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8132 @ 0.00039406 = 3.2045 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00039342 = 1.7901 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20287 @ 0.00040088 = 8.1327 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14301 @ 0.00040213 = 5.7509 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00039095 = 1.2706 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00039295 = 4.5779 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00039095 = 2.5998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3805 @ 0.00039095 = 1.4876 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.00038571 = 3.2785 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> [05:31] mircea_popescu: Has #b-a actually banned ever? << tiberius.
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [05:35] asciilifeform: I feel sorry for the poor guy, his heart is in the right place but he has no idea what kind of elephant he is trying to eat << more like a spittoon
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [05:53] am i alone in using wot as was originally taught, 'level of confidence that this key represents person who is what they wish to believe us they are' ? << would this be the ancient "gpg wot" standard?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9050 @ 0.00038571 = 3.4907 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.3305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,525.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: yea. now we can associate bitcoin trades to a key to associate trust value.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: o.O havelock returns ? << we are dealing with undead. it is to be expected...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00038571 = 6.1906 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ... #b-a actually banned ever? << mr spam, mr moarspam, others
adlai: his name was robert paulsen
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: mr. moarspam?
thestringpuller: adlai: that part of the book/movie is creepy as fuck.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: forgot his nick already. something to do with plague, contagion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00038571 = 1.215 BTC [-]
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0CE5XAG.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9975 @ 0.00038192 = 3.8097 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13645 @ 0.0003815 = 5.2056 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6055 @ 0.00036844 = 2.2309 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10431 @ 0.00036356 = 3.7923 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13472 @ 0.00038708 = 5.2147 BTC [+]
adlai: it ain't a cryptoparty if nobody's having fundation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00036751 = 6.5049 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7921 @ 0.00037571 = 2.976 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: !up coalbe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00037611 = 6.7512 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: !rate coalbe 1 really bad puns
assbot: coalbe is not registered in WoT.
ben_vulpes: coalbe!
coalbe: :shrug:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00039053 = 2.3237 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: !gettrust coalbe
assbot: Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user coalbe: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/ben_vulpes/coalbe | http://w.b-a.link/user/coalbe
ben_vulpes: !rate coalbe 1 bad puns
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e5c6ca4dfbaf370b
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.coalbe.1:7963e8bebaef17f239758f67e4784ead88f565b669ba7319af114b55def5638b
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for coalbe with note: bad puns
ben_vulpes: !down coalbe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00040228 = 3.1177 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: now pm assbot thusly: /msg assbot !up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14394 @ 0.00040129 = 5.7762 BTC [-]
lobbes: !rate BingoBoingo 1 Helped me publish my first qntra article; all-around cool guy
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/20dfcdc3899a0cc0
lobbes: !v assbot:lobbes.rate.BingoBoingo.1:dddea0c2eacbe967fa5d475c36c3906904f651d7d5baba3f4a06f5eefe7eefa
assbot: Invalid verfication string.
mike_c: looks like you are 1 character short.
mike_c: or a scamzor.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14525 @ 0.00036342 = 5.2787 BTC [-] {2}
lobbes: mike_c: you have better eyes than I
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.04 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform replaced a ~15 year old fan
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you must take good care of your things
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: esp. since this was the master ups
asciilifeform: it was getting to the point that i could hear it in other rooms
asciilifeform: (it's a 'double-conversion' monster that runs inverter 100% of the time)
BingoBoingo: Oh, I though maybe this was the sort of fan you replace for insufficient adoration
asciilifeform: this was the useful kind.
asciilifeform: that blows.
BingoBoingo: Sometimes other kinds blows as well.
asciilifeform: put a 'pabst' fluid bearing 80mm in there. golden toilet, should last.
cazalla: DigitalCurrency (@DCCCertified) favorited one of your Tweets! <<< bwahaha they don't even follow the links to see what it is, just fav away for tities lol
thestringpuller: cazalla: thousand fly eyes
cazalla: and fuck, i wish it was summer, first week of autumn and the mornings are already cold and dark
asciilifeform: (tip: if anyone else has a 'liebert' ups, and replacing fan, don't throw out old one. you will need to snip&solder the connector.)
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: you have given me imagery of asciilifeform having a "posse". asciilifeform: "Why are you people following me?" Member of posse: "Oh, we're you're crew. We follow you everywhere."
kakobrekla: tip: if you need a quiet fan, get one 'be quiet' makes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21532 @ 0.0003621 = 7.7967 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: iirc, there's exactly one producer of fluid bearings, and everybody else gets them
asciilifeform: some ancient subdivision of sony, iirc
asciilifeform: (fluid bearings used in fans, that is)
kakobrekla: i dont know from the top of my head which one bq uses but i bought 50 high end fans a year+ ago and tested them all
kakobrekla: still got a crate of 'bad' ones.
asciilifeform: 50 of same airflow, measured ?
asciilifeform: because otherwise you're comparing bulldog and rhinoceros
kakobrekla: i was testing for low rpm quietness where noise from bearings is the problem, noting else
asciilifeform: or were you doing a cubometres/decibel thing
kakobrekla runs fans at 200rpm
BingoBoingo: Perfectly good occasions exist to compare bulldog and rhinoceros
kakobrekla: checked: "fluid-dynamic bearing with copper core (300.000 operating hours)"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00038662 = 2.4744 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aha, it
asciilifeform: circulating oil in manifold made from sintered cu
kakobrekla: yeah these are great.
asciilifeform: love'em, got at least 7 in just this room
kakobrekla: but then second problem is running them slow enough - which only bq did as far as my tests went
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00038662 = 2.745 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: can always solder a controller inline with the cord
kakobrekla: thats not the problem
kakobrekla: but the fans have a minimum speed at which they will actually turn
kakobrekla: pwm fans have this hardcoded so to speak
asciilifeform: you found ones where this was below 200 ?
asciilifeform: or rather, above
kakobrekla: most of them have min way above 200
kakobrekla: most common seems to be around 500 or 600 rpm
kakobrekla: some even higher.
kakobrekla: heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png
kakobrekla: you dont actually see noise here
kakobrekla: but the working curve
asciilifeform: 'power %' << duty cycle ?
kakobrekla: iirc that particular shot is pwm controlled
asciilifeform: incidentally, whatever happened to electrodynamic fans ?
asciilifeform: the kind without moving parts
kakobrekla: here is same fan pwm vs voltage
kakobrekla: pwm on right.
kakobrekla: but not the one i use.
asciilifeform: http://www.inventgeek.com/ionic-wind-pc-cooling << ancient article, re: make your own
asciilifeform: doubles as air filter.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: ^ definitely no bearing noise. no bearing, no motor...
kakobrekla: i had one of such 'ionization' clean air gadgets running for some time some years ago
kakobrekla: it made the wall around it all back.
asciilifeform: when configured as 'air cleaner' they tend to piss out ozone
asciilifeform: and yes, make dust stick in random place
kakobrekla: yeah not cool at all.
asciilifeform: but in the shape pictured, the output mesh is grounded
asciilifeform has not tried the recipe, but invites anyone who has, to post.
asciilifeform: btw if the wall was black, it was working
kakobrekla: still is black :D
asciilifeform: whole point of electrostatic cleaner is to make dust stick to things (in a well-constructed one, the 'thing' is the filter inside)
kakobrekla: but dunno how wanted ozone really is
asciilifeform: generally not very
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00038662 = 3.6729 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: at least ozone smells good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00038886 = 1.7499 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00039363 = 4.5661 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9662 @ 0.00039964 = 3.8613 BTC [+]
jurov: not very healthy for breathing
BingoBoingo: Well, not if you get to much. What harm can the occasional whiff of it do?
jurov: we were talking about kako's ozone generator
jurov: running (presumably) all day
assbot: Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners | Indoor Air | US Environmental Protection Agency ... ( http://bit.ly/18mqbsC )
punkman: ozone helps kill odours, so "cleaner" air
jurov: ^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.
punkman: jurov, ah good to know
BingoBoingo: !up GrandHierophant
cazalla: !up sjsqd
GrandHierophant: !down GrandHierophant
punkman: !up GrandHierophant
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 3384 @ 0.012 = 40.608 BTC [+]
jurov: wtf GrandHierophant
asciilifeform: cazalla: typo: ullbricht
GrandHierophant: what jurov
asciilifeform: ulbricht rather
cazalla: asciilifeform, it's early :\
assbot: The Jihadi John Cover Story | emptywheel ... ( http://bit.ly/1aNPDsW )
asciilifeform: 'British intelligence sources are now claiming that the SIGINT hunt for Emwazi preceded the HUMINT one, and also claiming that a SIGINT clue — and the related SIGINT trail that clue uncovered — provided the breakthrough in IDing him. Which is almost certainly bullshit. But notable bullshit, for two reasons. First, because the current story — that the UK lost Emwazi — poses really big problems for the dragnet. Because i
asciilifeform: f someone like Emwazi, whom MI5 had been chasing for years, can simply disappear, only to reappear as the man beheading western journalists (though technically, the videos never show him doing so), then it suggests the entire dragnet is least effective when it is most needed. The Express’ ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor
asciilifeform: ding to the story getting told publicly).'
mike_c: i don't quite get this theory that they aren't actually selling the coins.
thestringpuller: RENT is goin hard. Biggest trade I've seen yet.
thestringpuller: mike_c: they don't sell coins. they make you think they are selling coins.
mike_c: There isn't much doubt that they took ulbricht's coins, right?
asciilifeform: (^ very short letter, foia denial)
mike_c: i understand the theory :) I don't get the basis.
thestringpuller: winning bidder says, "Oh i received coins." with gun at head in background from USG suit and tie
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: afaik the only source of this hypothesis is mircea_popescu, who presumably has a clue, but understandably won't reveal source of said clue
thestringpuller: mike_c: price suppression is basis, but maybe there is more strategy to it?
mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: "Oh i received coins." with gun at head... << it isn't clear why this would lead to price drops at public exchanges, unless anticipatory sell-offs (which would be brief)
mike_c: price suppression doesn't mean they are selling fake coins, it would be the same if they were selling real coins.
mike_c: asciilifeform: the price suppression comes because when someone wants x thousand coins they have this avenue. where otherwise they would be harder/more expensive to obtain.
asciilifeform: mike_c: i still don't get why somebody buying a parcel of $maxint btc would affect the price on, e.g., 'btc-e'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: given the FDIC-like insurance scheme enemy is planning, i would think it probably there is some ability to forcefully liquidate funds against trader's wills (at least smaller ones)
asciilifeform: if it doesn't happen there
mike_c: the auctions are siphoning off demand that could otherwise show up on some exchange. and while the exchanges don't move in perfect tandem, they do move close unless something is wrong.
asciilifeform: only siphons off demand unless, e.g., draper, was actually going to buy at public exchanges and then didn't
asciilifeform: this would result in exchange rate failing to to climb, but how would it lead to a drop ?
asciilifeform: *siphons off demand if
mike_c: the price drops as supply exceeds demand (in a macro sense). if you believe that draper, silbert, etc. represented demand, and that the demand would have eventually made its way to the exchanges even if not directly
mike_c: then the absence of that demand would suppress the price. whether this leads to flat, falling, or only "not rising as much" price
asciilifeform: price drops as supply exceeds demand << this is like finding a corpse and declaring 'he died from not breathing'
mike_c: depends on how much other demand there is
asciilifeform: yes, it's rather obvious, but interested in mechanics
danielpbarron: aren't there 3.6k coins found every day that need to find a new home or else a miner can't pay his electricity bill?
mike_c: that depends on who you ask. some will say that miners mine specifically to get nice clean coins and aren't selling to pay bills.
asciilifeform: ^ that was my theory (though quite likely it's a formula obvious to many folks)
danielpbarron: what is a clean coin? i thought there is no taint in bitcoin
mike_c: others say that the big miners don't have to worry about paying electricity bills..
mike_c: as has been more or less proven in here before, the big miners aren't buying KNC/bitmain/whoever rigs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00038968 = 4.0916 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 346316 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 435 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47085869256.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 0.86002
asciilifeform: afaik nothing whatsoever is publicly known about the 'big miners' other than approximate hash output.
mike_c: "nothing whatsoever". If hash power goes up by an order of magnitude more than the output of the minig rig manufacturers, something is known.
asciilifeform: other than this.
asciilifeform: alternatively, the output figures are bullshit
mike_c: like KNC is underreporting their sales?
asciilifeform: and one or more quietly produced a great many units which do not publicly exist except for their hash
asciilifeform: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 270.25, Best ask: 270.46, Bid-ask spread: 0.21000, Last trade: 270.47, 24 hour volume: 55311.03169349, 24 hour low: 262.0, 24 hour high: 275.0, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: ;;calc 270.25 * 3600
gribble: 972900
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: aren't there 3.6k coins found every day that need to find a new home or else a miner can't pay his electricity bill << ^ quite a bill
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: what is a clean coin? i thought there is no taint in bitcoin << but there is in fiat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00038793 = 5.1789 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: for an american gasenwagen, it is theoretically enough that you moved $int from your bank account to a known btc exchange at some point
danielpbarron: well they aren't paying their electric bills directly in bitcoin.. yet
asciilifeform: where the coins are, the victim will reveal himself when the soldering iron warms up
thestringpuller: moar alf poetry
thestringpuller: the book of alf
jurov: felipelalli: About coinbr.com, what happens if my account stay negative "forever"? << eventually coinbr will ask you to cover the unpaid fees, otherwise some assets get liquidated in, say, 12 months
jurov: i could not be arsed to do it yet
felipelalli: Thank you jurov! :) So, the only way to "pause" the fees when our account is kind of inactive is selling all assets and removing the account? Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets?
asciilifeform: felipelalli: Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets << if you bought an mpex account...
felipelalli: asciilifeform: I'd imagine that. :(
mike_c: ;;calc 0.19 * 12 * [ticker --last]
gribble: 636.1428
thestringpuller: mpex account is actually much more expensive than coinbr
mike_c: ;;calc 0.019 * 12 * [ticker --last]
gribble: 63.61428
asciilifeform: naturally
thestringpuller: ;;calc 30 / 0.019
gribble: 1578.94736842
thestringpuller: ;;calc 1578.94 / 12
gribble: 131.578333333
jurov: are these bitcents really such a problem?
thestringpuller: ^- the years it would take to pay off mpex account
thestringpuller: on coinbr
thestringpuller: coinbr is remarkable deal
asciilifeform: jurov: they sure are for me, for example
asciilifeform: it means that the machine isn't fire&forget
asciilifeform: and you have to somehow come up with new btc once in a while
felipelalli: So, it is fun to play in MPEx and CoinBR only if you are really rich! :) Not my case right now, yet.
mike_c: $5 / month is rich?
asciilifeform: felipelalli: congrats on coming to this conclusion quickly and painlessly
asciilifeform: mike_c: yes, rich, if it's 5 in plutonium
jurov: not yet. unpaid fees just accumulate, not even that if you get any dividends
felipelalli: well, if I buy like $10 in assets, if I pay $5 / month I am making a bad deal, right?
mike_c: yes
danielpbarron: lol @ $10 in assets
jurov: it's what you do with fiat assets? to ask broker to manage $10 woth of them?
jurov: *worth
asciilifeform doesn't have broker either
thestringpuller: LOL $10 in assets
felipelalli: well! That's why I am saying I cannot play yet! :) I'm investing hard in my business, I can't invest hard in MPEx assets yet right now.
thestringpuller: felipelalli: you're missing out
danielpbarron: you can always make a bitbet bet
thestringpuller: also mpex is probably safest place to store bitcoin
asciilifeform: ^ i never grokked this argument
asciilifeform: in either case, lose your key, lose the coin
asciilifeform: (which is as it ought to be)
jurov: anyway i plan the possiblity to loan everything to coinbr, with dividend payments directly to your address
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: well I keep my private key in a back up in a tube up my but
jurov: no fees, but your assets would be available only 30 days after calling or so
jurov: similar like i do for qntra people
jurov: who haven't asked me otherwise
felipelalli: jurov: like a "pause"?
jurov: you can see it as pause
jurov: yes
felipelalli: that would be great. But $5 / mo worth it, I thought it was more expensive, don't know why. I'll continue to pay that even without big investments yet.
BingoBoingo doesn't see why jurov shouldn't get paid for "fire and forget" Could be a one time fee much larger than the monthly fee.
mike_c: it *is* fire and forget. he doesn't liquidate you if you have unpaid fees
felipelalli: jurov: maybe a year plan would be nice as well.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that would be essentially reselling mpex account at cost, no ?
felipelalli: mike_c: yes. now I think jurov is too much nice. :D
danielpbarron: i'd hate to see things get too user friendly up in here :p
jurov: don't worry, when i finally implement these loans, i'll start nagging
danielpbarron: or else every "homo reddicus" with $10 will end up spamming the orderbook
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or simply selling access to his proxy for a fixed price option. Maybe in the range of 5-20% of what the mpex account costs, so still an intege BTC price in this hypothetical.
felipelalli: jurov: chasing bad payers? lol
jurov: and it isn't a big sum anyway
jurov: felipelalli: but really, you'd give up your ability to trade online for such "free account"?
felipelalli: danielpbarron: it isn't $ 10, it was just an exaggeration. I guess I have more than $ 100 there.
jurov: you're ok with 30day delay?
mike_c: coinbr glacier :)
jurov: haha
felipelalli: jurov: the point is that I don't want to "trade online", I don't have time for that. I just want to buy MPEx or QNTRA for example and let there, sleeping.
felipelalli: jurov: I'm OK with 60 or 90 days delay.
jurov: orly. even better for me.
thestringpuller: cause he can lend your shares without your permission
jurov: thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind
felipelalli: aahahah, I allow. He can make fractional reserve. If this pay my fee.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00039 = 2.34 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 100 @ 0.03833099 = 3.8331 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: if homo redditicus were only a problem because 'spamming the orderbook', that would be another thing. a bot could theoretically 'vacuum up the chump money' and that's that. But - they, as i understand, spam support lines, public fora, and overall poison the atmosphere in ways not outweighed by the pennies they bring in
asciilifeform: (n00bs can read my original article reviewing mpex, containing summary of mircea_popescu's material on above subject - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108 )
assbot: Loper OS » A Review of MPEx, the Bitcoin Stock Exchange. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BMeIPc )
mike_c: that's the point of coinbr though. they pay jurov for the right to harrass him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00038225 = 5.428 BTC [-]
mike_c: people call charles schwab, not NYSE, when they have a problem.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 325 @ 0.0125 = 4.0625 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: i kinda wonder why poor folks are even interested in mpex (or, for that matter, schwab)
mike_c: same reason as havelock. buy a few shares and you feel a part of something big.
asciilifeform: mike_c: religion? ok
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0BBSCR8.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15463 @ 0.00038225 = 5.9107 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: (i, for instance, wasn't interested at all until invited to write a review, using free demo. which i did. and in the course of said demo, realized that i've not particularly much to -do- with such a thing, on account of having approximately no coin)
asciilifeform: because i don't so much go in for religion
asciilifeform: if you have hundreds, thousands of coin - yes, it is very interesting
danielpbarron: it can be interesting with as little as .. 5 .. 10 coins
asciilifeform: not if your time is worth anything
mike_c: some people enjoy it
asciilifeform: hard to argue with that. there are 'some people' who enjoy just about anything.
mike_c: yeah, some like ada :D
asciilifeform is at this moment actively unenjoying the ada
mike_c: there's nothing wrong with taking a few btc and playing around on coinbr as a way to learn more about btc finance world.
asciilifeform: as amusement park - works.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform's got a good point though, with such little amounts you aren't going to move the market -- might as well just pretend trade in a txt file
asciilifeform: ^ precisely
asciilifeform: i can - and do - play this game privately on occasion
mike_c: if you have 3 btc, and you just doubled it to 6 in the recent qntra surge, you probably are quite happy with yourself.
asciilifeform: without paying anyone anything
asciilifeform: mike_c: for folks who like to gamble - straight to the dice games
ben_vulpes: "but trading isn't gamblinggggg!"
mike_c: why not gamble on a +EV game?
asciilifeform: for folks who can reliably turn x into 2x - they already have mpex accounts, aren't reading this
ben_vulpes: and how'd you know that, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: conjecture.
mike_c: maybe they not only are reading this, they are writing it! :)
mike_c: in reality, nobody can reliably turn x into 2x.
mike_c: at least not more than a couple time
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?
asciilifeform: as in, the maximum one could have hoped to earn on coinbr in a particular time interval starting with x btc
asciilifeform: (this is actually np-complete, but one can find approximations)
mike_c: this requires non-public knowledge
mike_c: like what the order book looked like across time
asciilifeform: we're talking about historical data
asciilifeform: mike_c: technically yes
asciilifeform: but again can approximate, roughly, solely with price history, no ?
asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?
mike_c: depends on liquidity.. maybe for mpoe. even there, not really
mike_c: well, I not only have a clue, i have the order book history :)
asciilifeform: for small enough x, market has full depth at all times, no?
asciilifeform: is depth really a concern for infinitesimal working sum ?
mike_c: infinitesimal, no. but then you're 'perfect knowledge' bot isn't going to make so much anyway
asciilifeform: mike_c: it will give you an x and x', where x' > x
mike_c: mm, not quite. because order book could have been better than price history at times
mike_c: bid climbs up, then down, then sale happens. if you had sold at higher bid you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot
asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve
asciilifeform: you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition
asciilifeform: 'perfect info bot' is this abstract thing. a god.
mike_c: ok, but that's what i'm saying. the god needs non-public info
asciilifeform: even for determining what x' is for x=0.01 btc ?
asciilifeform can already picture how - if the 0.01 were enough to 'move between equivalence classes' in the orderbook
jurov rolls eyes
mike_c: i'll leave it at this - you will come up with a number that is just as useful with public info as you would with non-public info.
jurov: bitbet is certain to make 7% dividend next month
jurov: to buy it does not need any perfect bot
jurov: but nobody does
mike_c: bitbet dividend = rand()
asciilifeform: i merely suspect that no one, not even a god, could 'get rich' at 'investing' pocket change at mpex
danielpbarron: lol mike_c
jurov: mike_c: have you read the last report?
danielpbarron: sure feels that way
jurov: so, nobody even reads the fkn reports
mike_c: jurov: just a poke at the frequency of dividend mistakes on that asset :)
asciilifeform: (unless someone noticed that he's a god, and gave him a bag of coin for lulz. but that's outside the rules of the gedankenexperiment!)
jurov: and they want to have" perfect bots"
asciilifeform: (unlike 'redditicus' the impossibility doesn't irritate me in the slightest, i have other things in life to play with)
asciilifeform: jurov: bitbet is certain to make 7% dividend next month.. to buy it does not need any perfect bot.. but nobody does << this is because time is worth something
mike_c: well, plus he is incorrect. monthly volume is over 1% of total shares.
asciilifeform: calculate, how much coin would i need to have on hand for it to be worth the effort in getting a coinbr account and making the gears go correctly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 8051 @ 0.00018861 = 1.5185 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: well. avg s.mpoe dividend is about 100 satoshi
ben_vulpes: more effective to not do it and just buy btc.
jurov: ;;calc 0.2*100000000/100
gribble: 200000
jurov: damn
jurov: ;;calc 0.02*100000000/100
gribble: 20000
jurov: ^ this many shares you need to stay even
jurov: ;;calc 20000*0.0004
asciilifeform: there we go.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2620 @ 0.00038225 = 1.0015 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'The Third Rock From The Sun can hold an atmosphere and your piece of cosmic flotsam can’t.' (from my article)
asciilifeform: gravity works this way, and so do other things.
jurov: nad you'd be fine with 90day delay to access them, too?
jurov: *and
asciilifeform: jurov: nope. i'm not the least bit interested in low-frequency trading
asciilifeform: takes away what little point there is, no?
jurov: and what you are interested in?
asciilifeform: escape rocket
asciilifeform: (but i know that it isn't happening with trading, because i'm not an idiot, so i don't trade)
jurov: well, that's not my business
asciilifeform: didn't mean to imply that it was.
asciilifeform: or that jurov's gizmo doesn't function exactly as printed on crate.
jurov: can you pls explain the issue?
asciilifeform: no issue, just the fact that i personally don't have any jobs for which coinbr is the right tool
asciilifeform: the folks subscribing - presumably have reasons
asciilifeform: i just cannot know what they are.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 84.8305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,110.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1123/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 28.65000237 BTC. Current weight: 68,632.
jurov: *stunned silence*
jurov: i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here
jurov: *times
asciilifeform: i think i understand how coinbr works, and why
asciilifeform: but i don't know who the users are and what motivates them
jurov: having thousands of chumps pounding on on mpex accounts is just unthinkable, hence the fees.
jurov: *on one mpex account
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043338 << it is when your strategy works mostly based on depth
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:13:44; asciilifeform: is depth really a concern for infinitesimal working sum ?
adlai not sure if he counts as a 'folks with a clue'
asciilifeform: jurov: would you say that the 'thousands of chumps' are using your gizmo instead ?
asciilifeform has no idea re: coinbr user stats
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6119 @ 0.00038007 = 2.3256 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: they could be using my gizmo only if it worked as boiler room
adlai notes to self to offer asciilifeform a seat on the escape rocket, should the clue ever be proven
asciilifeform: jurov: i think i get what you mean
adlai: specifically, scalpl's purpose is to produce the fastest possible escape rocket for a given (parametrizable) risk tolerance; once that technology is in place, it's just a matter of finding a market for which the maximum speed at your risk tolerance exceeds escape velocity
asciilifeform: adlai: see earlier discussion about what 'carnot efficiency', if you'll allow the analogy, is for scalpl (or any similar machine)
adlai: !s carnot from:asciilifeform
assbot: 4 results for 'carnot from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=carnot+from%3Aasciilifeform
asciilifeform: not mentioned by name earlier
asciilifeform: but trying to compare to the well-known thermodynamic optimum for an engine
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:10:23; asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043164 << coins have moved on the blockchain, although it's trivial to fake this - if you control the coins.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
jurov: (parametrizable) risk tolerance << and this is solved problem in finance?
adlai: nope, but it's a problem that individuals can tackle for themselves
asciilifeform: it's simply an elementary fact that you can't +ev your way 'from rags to riches' unless you know something other folks don't
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 8000 @ 0.00018125 = 1.45 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2683 @ 0.0003914 = 1.0501 BTC [+]
adlai: the 'perfect knowledge' bot - are you using the word 'perfect' to suggest that it knows what _will_ happen?
adlai: because that is pure masturbation
adlai: there's a lot of interesting knowledge in the distribution of expected liquidity events given all other data on the market, but it's far from 'perfect', because it gives you, at best, a precisely calculated distribution of 'past performance'
asciilifeform: adlai: yes, 'knows what will'
asciilifeform: adlai: and no, not pure masturbation
asciilifeform: any more than carnot cycle is
asciilifeform: it tells you (or would, if could be written, but the most you can hope for is an approximation, as the problem - even with all the necessary data - is np-complete) the theoretical maximum that could have been achieved
asciilifeform: against which to measure the actuality.
asciilifeform: sorta like the 'x % kills' (what fraction of the monsters you dealt with) shown at the end of a 'doom' level
punkman: I don't think carnot cycle is a good analogy here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00037559 = 4.6949 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before 1st May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1120/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 89.8305122 BTC. Current weight: 72,075.
adlai: calling this 'np-complete' is like calling ftl drive research 'expensive'
adlai: the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist
adlai: "market will go up" is different from "joe impulse trader will press the button once he sees N flashing numbers", and 'perfect information' requires the latter, which is for all practical purposes, random
adlai: more personally, if perfect information exists, scalpl is truly a wild goose chase; i'm betting my time on perfect information not existing, and there being room for patience to profit off information fuzzyness
adlai: gathering and interpreting actual information is a totally different story, and there's a huge amount of information that most/all human traders totally *ignore*, and that's as mike_c said - past order book movements
thestringpuller: !gettrust friedcat
assbot: friedcat is not registered in WoT.
adlai is not surprised
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9336 @ 0.00038768 = 3.6194 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: asciilifeform: 'x % kills' << this would be a totally meaningless epsilon for any 'perfect information bot' that actually acts on that information
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00039239 = 4.434 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00040062 = 8.8537 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00040226 = 2.6348 BTC [+]
cazalla: look like indiana jones' number might be up
cazalla: or han solo depending on your preference
mircea_popescu: what's that mean ?
BingoBoingo: Oh, is Harrison Ford kicking the bucket soon?
assbot: Harrison Ford -- Plane Crashes ... Actor Seriously Injured | TMZ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOovK8 )
mircea_popescu: cessna nailgun
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 11:47:57; assbot: Russian Lawmaker: Bitcoin is a CIA Conspiracy ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fd7rXE )
mircea_popescu: who is this, zhirinovsky ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042955 << their argument rests on some random schmuck who went in the field to "Study" it, introduced some seeds, claimed to have discovered the resulting plants and woe and behold, a redditard mattered!
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 12:47:00; punkman: flooding a nice forest probably not the best idea, but their argument rests on lousewort?!
mircea_popescu: i think it's unseemly that they should be further encouraged.
mircea_popescu: the sooner they lose all hope the sooner their children can begin tearing up redditardamerica and building a livable space north of rio grande.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu aha you're quite right about the scytales. a variable diameter stick is really a fascinating way of graphing cryptographic curves.
mircea_popescu: greeks, way ahead of romans and their spawn ONCE AGAIN
mircea_popescu: they had the atomic theory, they had the steam engine, they had the works.
pete_dushenski: atomic theory i knew, but steam engine ?!
pete_dushenski: and the romans were empire builders, not philosophers
mircea_popescu: look into hero of alexandria
pete_dushenski: they had philosophers, but that's a different thing
mircea_popescu: (aeolipile)
pete_dushenski: "The aeolipile was a hollow sphere mounted so that it could turn on a pair of hollow tubes that provided steam to the sphere from a cauldron. The steam escaped from the sphere from one or more bent tubes projecting from its equator, causing the sphere to revolve. The aeolipile is the first known device to transform steam into rotary motion."
pete_dushenski: well waddya know!
cazalla: got another retweet for the bits for tits trilema post.. this time by a bitcoin magazine for women.. ah ha, they don't even read, just retweet
cazalla: of course, i'm working on the assumption these are lefties who would be grossly offended at such an idea but you never know..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00040568 = 9.3915 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: ftr, actual lefties aren't offended at nudity.
adlai: what's this about graphing curves?
mircea_popescu: the weirdo abominable us "lefties", which are really a sort of recycled aunt pollies, yes.
pete_dushenski: adlai greek scytales
adlai has been visualizing his way along https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6jTFxQaUJA
assbot: ECCHacks - A gentle introduction to elliptic-curve cryptography [31c3] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOq8Yt )
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, a lefty commune more likely to be nude than otherwise.
adlai: sure, i know what scytales are. but 'a variable diameter stick is really a fascinating way of graphing cryptographic curves.' = ?
pete_dushenski: adlai do i misunderstand how scytales work ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, aren't the us lefties the type of lefties behind bitcoin wimminz day anyway
mircea_popescu: gotta ask 'em, cazalla. whadda i know >D
cazalla: the other leftie type being.. amir/hippy types living in a hovel engaging in drug fuelled orgies?
adlai: pete_dushenski: could be. scytales just rearrange the 'packets' of a message, whereas modern crypto jumbles the data within
pete_dushenski: " the scytale, consisted of a tapered baton around which was spirally wrapped a piece of parchment inscribed with the message. When unwrapped the parchment bore an incomprehensible set of letters, but when wrapped around another baton of identical proportions, the original text reappeared. "
adlai: it just changes the order of the letters
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 16:51:02; ben_vulpes: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/ << moar on google breaking the internet
pete_dushenski: adlai being ignorant of the difference between rearranging packets and jumbling, can you expand ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla most of israel was built by lefties.
mircea_popescu: adlai "packets" "data within", what is this, we make up words day ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00040817 = 4.694 BTC [+]
assbot: The fashionability of being uncompetitive. Because Reasons. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOrOB6 )
adlai: pete_dushenski: let's say scytale diameter is em/2π, ie the message has six 'rows', and each sextet of letters on the wrapped paper corresponds to a column
adlai: the scytale cipher is equivalent to drawing a long table with six rows (adding columns as needed), and writing out the message to fill the column; then all the letters are jumbled. but the letters remain unchanged
adlai: it leaks information about the message content, even if you don't get the full thing
mircea_popescu: adlai you are making assumptions about the length of the parchment.
jurov: so what. should have used klein bottles or such.
adlai: what assumptions?
mircea_popescu: it could be 2700 stadies for all you know
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .185 * 2700
gribble: 499.5
mircea_popescu: 500km. wow check me out, i can estimate!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10222 @ 0.00040817 = 4.1723 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: wait, where's 0.185 from ?
asciilifeform: adlai: the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist << the bot is not for use! it's a theoretical construction, like carnot cycle
mircea_popescu: there's ~185 meters in a stadion
mircea_popescu: (the thing you folks call stadium in english an' stadion in french :) )
pete_dushenski: o estadio !
asciilifeform: scytales... ecdsa << if this analogy is accurate, woe be unto ecdsa users. you can crack scyrale with a physical contrivance analogous to an engorging cock
pete_dushenski: depends on one's.... capacity
pete_dushenski: not everyone packs a salami for lunch
jurov: if the "perfect bot" ends up with less then complete monopoly, then it's non-prefect by definition
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only if it's fixed taper.
jurov: unless we can endlessly argue that monopoly is not optiomal outcome for its owner
jurov: the boundary is now carnot cycle but complete pwnage
jurov: *not carnot cycle
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if can vary taper between min and max of what opponent could have used - then yes
asciilifeform: jurov: nobody's getting a monopoly off epsilon btc
asciilifeform: jurov: which is why the gedankenexperiment was specifically about epsilon
jurov: in 2009 there was only epsilon
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i mean is, that you need the volume to be defined by the same angle all around the center. ie, you need a baton that can be turned. whereas in practice they'd use unturned batons.
jurov: notyhing else
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu asciilifeform could also be variable taper
mircea_popescu: it's what i said o.O
asciilifeform: i doubt that they varied the taper
mircea_popescu: ever seen the item itself ?
asciilifeform: take a table leg, a length of photo film, and experiment
mircea_popescu: no, table length is turned.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu i'm slow..
asciilifeform: only ever saw modern reproductions of scytale
asciilifeform: not having been to ancient sparta in person
mircea_popescu: all the ones i've seen were asymmetrical.
asciilifeform: i see it
mircea_popescu: crpto, 3k years ago as today : if naively implemented, trivial. if not... well.... ahem.
asciilifeform: still crackable with a rubber cock that inflates while second variable is expansion of one end (use an aperture, like camera)
mircea_popescu: yes, but the problem becomes similar to "crack this otp"
mircea_popescu: "sure. i can crack it any way you want me to"
asciilifeform: more like cracking a rotor
mircea_popescu: more like cracking rsa : for the techology they had at the time, absolute security.
asciilifeform: as adlai pointed out, there is ample info bounding the possible plaintexts available in the ciphertext
asciilifeform: for their time - if they worked it correctly - yes
mircea_popescu: only if you assume the pad is short and fixed length
mircea_popescu: fixed distance i mean. if you have a 100 cm pad with 1 leter per cm, yes.
mircea_popescu: if you have a 5km pad with 1 letter per 1.1 cm on average, from 1 to 2, then no.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i love a good analogue 'stone-age' cryptomechanism. and not only for enciphering. consider the broken cup.
asciilifeform: authenticator, used even in ww2
mircea_popescu: this, iirc, was the first use of glass
mircea_popescu: they'd make a bead and crush it.
asciilifeform: modern cryptowankers' parlance calls these 'physically unclonable function'
asciilifeform: glass is still king, incidentally
asciilifeform: except don't have to break it, but expose to light
asciilifeform: a kind of interferometric 'hash'
adlai: the cool thing about nonphysical crypto is that you can generate unclonable objects together with a physically separated party
asciilifeform: adlai: ?
adlai: shared secret generation
asciilifeform: what's the unclonable part ?
pete_dushenski: adlai the cool thing about everything nonphysical is... its nonphysicality ;)
asciilifeform: when i used word 'unclonable' - that's meant literally. as in, no one will produce a matching half of that broken glass
asciilifeform: even if they'd much like to
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10384 @ 0.00039901 = 4.1433 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: with any existing or foreseeable tech
adlai: i guess everything's clonable, so that's the wrong analogy to make; physical unclonable items would be used for authentication ('thing is as i remember it'), shared secrets are used for secure communication
asciilifeform: (there are edges a few atoms thick, in there)
mircea_popescu: adlai> i guess everything's clonable, << what's this, progress hour ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25936 @ 0.00040536 = 10.5134 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00037772 = 8.5742 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ^ re: linked article << 'embrace & extinguish'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043090 <<< me is blown away at kakobrekla's immense fan expertise.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 19:46:13; kakobrekla: heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, that entire "oh, let's use someone else's stuff because it's stuff and why not" thing is dead.
mircea_popescu: they have shat the stick, so to speak. no further usage of anything unless it's in the wot.
asciilifeform: 'free cheese is found in mousetraps'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 85 @ 0.03812376 = 3.2405 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: be it google or apple, it can fucking rot. everything will have to be reimplemented.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "not evil" us corps.
asciilifeform: there are also impotent, and also dead ones
asciilifeform: as americans used to say 'good indians are in the cemetary'
mircea_popescu: sure. but as a matter of principle, the naive 1990s hippy "here's a thing i found, i am using it now" thing jumped the shark.
asciilifeform: it's rather like those kids in ru who make a hobby of collecting mementoes from old battlefields
mircea_popescu: will make "get big fast" fucking impossible to get revenue on, because all the customers you want are not going by marketing.
asciilifeform: every so often, 'oooh coool',... 'bang'
asciilifeform: if you aren't a sapper - find another hobby
mircea_popescu: and it'll make it fucking impossible fgor all the retarded "Women in internet" to make a living at their usual scams, marketing, pr, whatever.
mircea_popescu: but... them's the breaks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 116 @ 0.012 = 1.392 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043133 << wut ?! ozone is pretty much the number 1 reducer of organic matter.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 20:32:25; jurov: ^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.
mircea_popescu: dumbass epa. from the link :
mircea_popescu: "The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs (see - "Ozone and Your Health")."
asciilifeform: oxidizer not reducer
mircea_popescu: obviously, the reference is broken, because "We recently updated AIRNow.gov". and apparently they think this is how you say "we've recently brokenb airnow.gov"
asciilifeform: unless 'reducer' was meant in the ordinary, rather than chemist's, sense
mircea_popescu: i am certainly not taking any advice from these morons.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ordinary. makes them shorter.
mircea_popescu: the smelly parts are particularly susceptible, incidentally. both aromatics and sulphide types.
asciilifeform: the linked crap has the basic idea, ozone works as well on the meat as on whatever you're fumigating against
asciilifeform: don't sit and be gassed when fumigating.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is to treat air with ozone in an ozone trap.
mircea_popescu: not to pump ozone into the atmosphere.
asciilifeform: the linked thing was about machines that do precisely the latter
asciilifeform: commonly sold in gringolandia as cure-alls
mircea_popescu: yes well, the epa idiocy was not finding the room, among very usefully distinctive verbiage like "Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty, can experience breathing problems when exposed to ozone.", to specify this
mircea_popescu: it's you know... kinda important. seeing how they didn't title it "a particularly braindamaged misimplementation of ozone air purifying"
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to dig up the warning from 1920s (mentioned briefly in the modern usg one) would be interesting to read.
asciilifeform: and almost certainly shorter
mircea_popescu: tbh, i don't know there exists material more intellectually objectionable than the shit pouring out of the usg.
mircea_popescu: reminds me of the damned soviets.
mircea_popescu: "USG - Army Of One, And They're All Retarded"
asciilifeform: they didn't have cut&paste
asciilifeform: modern usg has many advantages in bullshit production over predecessors
mircea_popescu: all but a working head.
asciilifeform: (the soviets also didn't have microshit 'word', which helps illiterates to play-pretend by turning them into a kind of cyborg meat-assisted shannonizer)
mircea_popescu: they were stuck to formulaics instead.
asciilifeform: the total intellectual load placed on chumps was considerably lighter
asciilifeform: most folks with any kind of brain at all, just ignored the slogans when off the clock
asciilifeform: biggest shared 'in joke' in the world
asciilifeform: usa - no such luck
mircea_popescu: The Express? ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor ding to the story getting told publicly).' << doh.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 833 @ 0.012 = 9.996 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: here's the long and the short of this story : you got two whores, just like in the chemistry and agriculture story. one's whomint, the other's slutmint. you gotta fuck either one or the other. they both have very specific, life altering constraints.
mircea_popescu: if you decide to fuck whomint, where the fuck is harry poter fanfic boy going to find money to pay for his groceries ?
mircea_popescu: he'll have to fucking walk on streets and talk to people and non-aspie shit like that.
mircea_popescu: he'd rather swallow a fistful of thumbtacks.
mircea_popescu: so you're stuck with slutmint. no matter what fucking happens, it's going to have been a story about how "we" definitely need more slutmint, and all the time and resources spent in the past on slutmint was a good idea.
mircea_popescu: tis what it is.
asciilifeform: thought it was more mundane mechanism, where you absolutely must have elint for totalitarian control of the english world, where stoolie culture was not already well developed
mircea_popescu: we got slutmint and yekutzky can go on writing about what gangrene said to liberty valance or w/e.
asciilifeform: (and at any rate feels too much like work)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo this is entirely a subjective problem.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23299 @ 0.0003713 = 8.6509 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: just like the retarded 17yo who thinks she's a supermodel perceives peoiple walking down the street as "her audience", the redditard generation will perceive everything as sigint rules. because... that's the only thing they can do.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "it doesn't work" ? this presumes an alt-universe in which there are alternatives, so things could not work. the world they inhabit knows no such thing, and so... of course it works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or they were trying to solve a different problem:
asciilifeform: say, actually have every table and chair with microphone that sets off alarms if someone mutters a dissenting thought under his breath
asciilifeform: no more festering resentment, as in soviet times
asciilifeform: not that this is actually possible, necessarily, but -thinkable-
asciilifeform: and that's enough for the buggers
asciilifeform: that it's... thinkable.
mircea_popescu: your first doesn't lead to your second, so which do i admit, the first or the sercond ?
asciilifeform: they want to solve the problem of turning man into livestock
mircea_popescu: that's a generous problem to solve, seeing how the part that'll ever get solved was never not solved, and the rest isn't happening.
asciilifeform: didn't say it would happen, but the allure is irresistible to them
mircea_popescu: nonsense.
mircea_popescu: you're looking at a cat and seeing love. it's just a cat.
asciilifeform: it's a hungry leopard
asciilifeform: and 'loves' the delicious flesh.
mircea_popescu: only if you're chicklet sized.
mircea_popescu: the very notion that the us has any sort of purpose, not even conscious or expressible, but any sort whatsoever is ridiculous on its face. it has all the purpose of a shambling headless zombie. which is why they're stuck trying to invent nonsense, "women and gayz! anti pedo!!" etc.
mircea_popescu: it's the exact equivalent of german kids that are "anti nazi". orly ?
mircea_popescu: a tad late for that show.
asciilifeform: thinking of the still-living flesh now, not the gangrenous
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:01:23; mike_c: There isn't much doubt that they took ulbricht's coins, right?
asciilifeform: nsa, the fed, the nameless ones (tm), et al - are not run by the pheminist antinazi wtf crowd.
mike_c: but the coins are moving. how does that work?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043160 << the basis is that they made some claims, about selling coins, and then failed to deliver on the coiuns they alleged to sell.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:00; mike_c: i understand the theory :) I don't get the basis.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly identical to bfl delivering miners, with USMS playing the role of inaba.
mircea_popescu: coins move all the time.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the onus is not on observers to explain the usg. the usg made some claims, which were in due time proven false.
mircea_popescu: which they ignored.
mircea_popescu: sure, it's "not been 100% proven as a scam". this however isn't the criteria. you lie, you get caught, you're fucked.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
assbot: House committee subpoenas Clinton emails in Benghazi probe ... ( http://bit.ly/1NmZ0yC )
mircea_popescu: the blockchain is not an evidentiary record for third parties.
mircea_popescu: "The development on Capitol Hill came the same day The Associated Press reported the existence of a personal email server traced back to the Chappaqua, New York, home of Clinton. The unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official running her own email server would have given Clinton — who is expected to run for president in the 2016 campaign — significant control over limiting access to her message archives."
mircea_popescu: derp. emails still travel in plaintext, and this is the sigint we get ?
asciilifeform: exactly the same way btc tx travels in plaintext
asciilifeform: clinton, etc. don't expect to lose anything if it gets out
asciilifeform: because, to the extent is valuable - nonattributable
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
asciilifeform: if tomorrow we get a 'leaked' clinton email where clitler reveals that she is medusa and can kill with headsnakes - what will change ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ?
pete_dushenski: or is doesn't matter what she claims ?
asciilifeform: 'respectable' mouthpieces won't touch the subject
asciilifeform: it'll be like the 9/11 crap.
asciilifeform: 'xxxxx.' 'you're a nutter, go away'
pete_dushenski: well, clinton isn't the wtc
pete_dushenski: far from it.
pete_dushenski: she's a distraction at best and a fallguy at worst
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:40:01; mike_c: $5 / month is rich?
pete_dushenski: but hey, let's see her run and find out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's rich if it's denominated in plutonium!
mircea_popescu: she's definitely the more intellectually capable husk they got floating around. who else, jeb, bush's retarded brother/cousin/sister in law ?
asciilifeform: don't forget the other obama
mircea_popescu: the other obama is not really qualified to run kim's shoe boutique.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu i seem to recall you saying something to the effect of 'old women in power are the fucking worst'
pete_dushenski: is hillary exempt from this ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not my country, whadda i care. she's still the only not braidamaged runner so far.
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ? << a good reason to use usg mailservers and own your keys
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu except she's not running... yet.
mircea_popescu: yeah. right.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: point was that these folks live in a perverse sandbox world where it literally doesn't matter what happens
mircea_popescu: which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform 'the show must go on!'
asciilifeform: as orlov pointed out
asciilifeform: they don't care if they win a war, lose a war, here&there
asciilifeform: it's a very long road (or so they think) to hitler's bunker and 'headsoff.com' being filmed on washington streets
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu repblicans don't exactly 'have alternative', much less plural
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu and i'd still bet a nickel on the republicans
pete_dushenski: dems might take even longer shot because ya, doesn't much matter.
cazalla: pete_dushenski, pretty sure she can't announce nomination until such and such a date.. part of what made the bitbet bet's that clinton and rand would announce last year an easy win
pete_dushenski: might as well make an interesting ballot pairing of two people noone has ever heard of
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running. << implying she might run in 8 years?
pete_dushenski: cazalla aha
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes lol when she's 80
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: srs
ben_vulpes: 76, but whatever.
pete_dushenski: that's the secret
ben_vulpes: answer.
pete_dushenski: kinda like 'where's osama's body?'
pete_dushenski: actually, osama's body is much like these usms auctions
pete_dushenski: many promises, only hollywood 'evidence'
pete_dushenski: 'we made a movie and it won an oscar so history happened!'
adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions
asciilifeform: or the body
asciilifeform: (does each u.s. citizen get a small piece?)
pete_dushenski: to taste, yes
pete_dushenski: like the wooly mammoth
pete_dushenski: and since osama is basically the usg's religious messiah, come to save it from internal destruction by providing an external enemy, why not make a whole church service around him
pete_dushenski: offering up his 'body and blood'
pete_dushenski: adlai 'the winner' getting out of dodge and never looking back would do.
pete_dushenski: otherwise, wtf is wrong with their heads.
pete_dushenski: so barring that much braindamage in a single vessle, we should see silbert or whoever packing their bags for rio de janeiro
adlai: it's a problem, the people who frequent such yardsales probably like hanging around the yard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7868 @ 0.00036272 = 2.8539 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25732 @ 0.00038164 = 9.8204 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7968 @ 0.00038297 = 3.0515 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: for some reason nobody mentioned the ugliest thing about ada
asciilifeform: the 200k helloworld.
danielpbarron: i ordered that "bible" you mentioned
asciilifeform: pragma No_Run_Time;
asciilifeform: with Interfaces.C; use Interfaces.C;
asciilifeform: procedure Hello is
asciilifeform: procedure Puts (Str : Char_Array);
asciilifeform: pragma Import (C, Puts, "puts");
asciilifeform: Puts ("Hello, World!");
asciilifeform: end Hello;
asciilifeform: ^ 6k on my box
asciilifeform: but you can see how this cheats.
asciilifeform: (both numbers refer to stripped elf's on an x86-64 box)
mats: i managed to make ~60% ROI in the 13 months ive had a coinbr account
mats: thanks jurov
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you will have a real bitch of a time learning the language from the standard and justification docs, if that's what you were thinking of doing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4671 @ 0.00040988 = 1.9145 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: not sure what i was thinking except that i like the chapter:verse thing
danielpbarron: sounds like the book is timeless or something / probably a good investment
asciilifeform: all serious technical docs 'written for the ages' ought to be in that format.
danielpbarron: mats, was 60% enough to make up for the drop in USD/BTC price?
danielpbarron: i found a used one for 60 USD (the new is twice that) and impulsively added it to another order i had pending
mats: no, i bought a majority of it at 800 BTCUSD
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: make sure it describes at least the '95' variant
asciilifeform: at the earliest
danielpbarron: mats, so your "gains" were really just you helping out the fiat traders / at least it beat buying bitcoin and doing nothing with it
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, i searched for the code you mentioned in here, and yeah it says 95 in the title or whatever
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there are four adas - 83, 95, 2005, 2012
mats: yes, thats the downside to having imperfect information
assbot: Amazon.com: Ada 2005 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard ISO/IEC 8652/1995(E) with Technical Corrigendum 1 and Amendment 1 ... / Programming and Software Engineering) (9783540693352): S. Tucker Taft, Robert A. Duff, Randall L. Brukardt, Erhard Ploedereder, Pasca ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdeOgX )
danielpbarron: ah apparently i got the 2005 one
asciilifeform: get the 'rationale' too
asciilifeform: that's the one with chapter & verse
asciilifeform: or rather, they both have it
asciilifeform: but error messages (in verbose mode) cite rationale, iirc
decimation: aren't those all published on the internet?
asciilifeform: decimation: they are
asciilifeform: i assumed he likes dead tree
assbot: Size of linked program increasing with new version of GNAT. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bdfkvo )
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:51:43; jurov: thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> "implying she might run in 8 years?" << no, being facetious.
mircea_popescu: it's plain obvious she's the democrat candidate.
decimation: asciilifeform: the wisdom I've picked up from my own experiments and reading about yours is that it seems the ada compiler you choose is critical
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6218 @ 0.00040946 = 2.546 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "18* adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions" << complete misstatement of the situaiton. read the logs. search for "foia" might help
mircea_popescu is mildly offended at this "i will persist in being a redditard" attitude, for the record.
asciilifeform: decimation: i tested on both available compilers, the foundation's and the gnu
asciilifeform: decimation: same result
asciilifeform: decimation: i did not test on any closed-source compiler because they don't exist on the planet i choose to live on
thestringpuller: why is everyone complaining about ada
thestringpuller: 2 beers in and a few exercises this is not bad .jpeg
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: because there is not actually an alternative to ada
asciilifeform: and i think i'm the only one actually talking about it, for the most part
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you have reignited my love for computers again
thestringpuller: despite your pessimism :D
asciilifeform wonders how
mircea_popescu: fun fact : elf does not contain a windows byte. netbsd, linux, system v etc.
asciilifeform: why would it ?
asciilifeform: microshit wasn't at the table
asciilifeform: which is as it ought to be
mircea_popescu: not saying it should, merely pointing it out :D
decimation: wasn't it well known that microsoft stole the bsd IP stack for windows NT?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i love old microshit tho. found a copy of 3d studio R1 from 1990, and it runs on ms dos
thestringpuller: it's slightly poetic.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what's that got to do with microshit?
thestringpuller: TRON style i 'spose
mircea_popescu: lol mats made 60% bringing his losses to only 60%.
asciilifeform: '3d studio' was an 'autodesk' product
asciilifeform: ran in protected mode, too, using no actual msdos api
thestringpuller: that runs on microshit dos
asciilifeform spent what must have been a whole year playing with it as a kid
thestringpuller: i can't bring myself to hate on DOS
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: dos was not, properly speaking, a microshit product
asciilifeform: stolen.
mircea_popescu: unlike which ?
decimation: yeah it was a stolen reimplemenation of cp/m as i recall
mircea_popescu: pretty much
thestringpuller: i thought even windows and nt were "stolen"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043293 << for the exact reason george costanza once pointed out. "it's there"
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:00:28; asciilifeform: i kinda wonder why poor folks are even interested in mpex (or, for that matter, schwab)
adlai: !s foia
assbot: 40 results for 'foia' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=foia
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:06:11; mike_c: yeah, some like ada :D
mircea_popescu: if one is willing to take this tack, i wonder why one's not going the whole nine yards and throwing out the keyboard.
mircea_popescu: "I JUST WANT THE COMPUTER TO FUCKING WORK!!!1"
decimation: mircea_popescu I thought you were just making a point about "I use this thing and it works" is so 90's
mircea_popescu: the entire "i want government to just work by itself and let me to my affairs" has worked splendidly in the us, 70s to 2000s.
decimation: apparently jwz wants to live in the past
mircea_popescu: not the past, as this never existed, but a magical future where things work by themselves in the way ~you~ want them to.
decimation: in exchange for nothing, mind
mircea_popescu: the crowning nonsense of all nonsense, seriously. why is it not obvious that if you give up agency you also give up... agency ?
adlai: he seems to want free tech support
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this ancient fallacy has a name: 'dwim'
adlai: asciilifeform: are you familiar with dwimlisp?
asciilifeform: adlai: aha
assbot: DWIM Perl - the Perl distribution that contains everything you'll ever need ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdjdAo )
mircea_popescu: since im in a ftr mood apparently.
asciilifeform: dwim is the shortest possible summary of how illiterate folks imagine programming
asciilifeform: or engineering in general
mircea_popescu: !s babbage
assbot: 6 results for 'babbage' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=babbage
asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
decimation: apparently jwz's main business is running a club now
asciilifeform: decimation: that's where he parked his 'escape rocket'
mircea_popescu: yeah he has a disco in la he's been fighting the gobmint forever over.
adlai: (for the curious/brave - http://dwim.hu (requires javascript and much searching as it's impossible to link into this 'website'))
asciilifeform: i have always had a mild dislike for jwz and was never able to articulate why
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why ?
decimation: asciilifeform: he strikes me as a washed-up do-o-crat
mircea_popescu: iirc he started out as a lisp hacker.
asciilifeform: possibly because only fact i knew about him was him being involved in the dotcom bubble and being responsible for the steaming crock of shit that is netscape, and, by implication, the entire shit soup of www standards
adlai: he forked xemacs from gnu
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: almost all american programmers of a certain age once wrote lisp of some description
mircea_popescu: the www soup is scarcely to be pinned on one man, and if one man were to be found it's likely not this one.
asciilifeform: getting rich off netscape feels vaguely unsavoury in my book
adlai: jws was an employee at netscape
adlai: rather junior one
decimation: well, for one thing they stole mosaic
asciilifeform: anyway, not really pissing on the man in earnest here
asciilifeform: just confessing that my overall burning hatred for the time, place, and culture in which he became rich & famous spills onto him.
mircea_popescu: i liked the 90s!
mircea_popescu: i may even go so far as to say i liked the 90s sv o.O
asciilifeform: if i were to learn that he made his nightclub seed money by executing contract hits, rather than at netscape, i'd like him considerably more
adlai: he did piss off stallman
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043311 << "moving the market", in professional language "slippage" is not a desirable phenomenon but the bane of all existance.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:07:20; danielpbarron: asciilifeform's got a good point though, with such little amounts you aren't going to move the market -- might as well just pretend trade in a txt file
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm sure the denizens liked it also. but as al said, 'first ecstasy, then laundry.' we're living with the results of '90s sv.
decimation: adlai: it's probably impossible to do something positive to emacs without pissing off stallman
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's somewhat like saying that 'engineers hate friction'
mircea_popescu: or anything else for that matter.
asciilifeform: not exactly false, but no mechanical device would function if friction did not exist
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform slippage is not friction, slippage is your lab getting hit by earthquakes.
asciilifeform: but what if the lab is not a lab, but a bomb whose entire purpose is to trigger earthquake
mircea_popescu: "how the fuck am i supposed to do any scioence in here!111"
mircea_popescu: that is the EXACT feeling it evokes in financeheads.
adlai: i'm not sure the constructive uses of friction have any parallel either... beyond maybe as a cost of manipulation (when you don't control the tape)
asciilifeform is not aware of any successful instances of 'moving market', other than brute affairs like buterin's waterfall or the earlier and better-known gold price suppression scheme
mircea_popescu: netscape is a fine example.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: buterin's waterfall is leaky tho.
assbot: Silver Thursday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdkVBV )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will remember we're discussing markets here. the phenomenon of alleged "prices" in a situation where the government is the largest economic actor is laughable anyway.
decimation: moldbug has a post about why central banks spend most of their time trying to figure out how to not move the market
mircea_popescu: any system where taxes exceed maybe 6 or 7% is de facto a command economy,
mircea_popescu: generally a very poorly implemented one
thestringpuller: i would love to be taxed at 7%
thestringpuller: my God what country is that?!?
danielpbarron: a sim city still set to defaults
trinque: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NED0VT.txt )
thestringpuller: danielpbarron is my all time favorite person now
thestringpuller: the funny thing is
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what country << generally, the 'orc world' where laws aren't actually enforced unless you piss people off
thestringpuller: that if 7% is still too high for high wealth sims
thestringpuller: like seriously, high wealth sims are only happy at like 4%
thestringpuller: your cities fill up with poor people >7%
danielpbarron: i could never get everyone happy even when i used to glitch to get "MAXINT" currency units
thestringpuller: keep typing FUNDS. QE infinity.
decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/01/greg_page_on_fo.html > "And there have always been voices to let market signals determine how farmers planted their crops. Don't make people grow cotton just to maintain their base acres in the cotton program, when the world is crying out for more soybeans to feed itself."
assbot: " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdlQT2 )
asciilifeform: where i live, 40% is considered pretty good.
thestringpuller: this is how I imagined QE though, some d00d at Fed typing "FUNDS FUNDS FUNDS" over again on his computer.
decimation: asciilifeform: that's not even counting the fact that usd in your 'savings' account is continually thieved
asciilifeform: decimation: aha
asciilifeform: speaking just of old-fashioned taxes
thestringpuller: 401k is a scam
thestringpuller: and enron ruined pensions for everyone
asciilifeform: good thing i don't expect to live to pension age
decimation: I was just looking at the 'mid-cap value' fund from vanguard
asciilifeform: (nor, in general, should other u.s. folks, unless they're already very old)
decimation: the 'value' forward p/e was 30!
thestringpuller: asciilifeform that is depressing!
decimation: asciilifeform: what are you gonna do? withdraw your retirement with penalty and move to mexico?
asciilifeform: decimation: what made you think i have anything to withdraw ?
decimation: asciilifeform: surely you get paid a little extra
thestringpuller: asciilifeform contribute 0
thestringpuller: per paycheck
thestringpuller: instead his retirement is held in cyborgs and robots
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't even work at a place where they ask the question any more
thestringpuller: so you are pretty much robot worker?
thestringpuller: employer treats you like thing and not person
asciilifeform: neh, sorta the opposite
asciilifeform: but contractor
asciilifeform: these get paid in money
trinque: asciilifeform: even the fall of the soviet union didn't kill off all the former soviets
asciilifeform: (what passes for money in this part of the world)
trinque: what do you think is going to kill us off?
asciilifeform: trinque: read orlov's 'post-soviet lessons' to learn why the analogy does not apply
asciilifeform: trinque: know that no one in the ussr needed to pay rent
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: hey you're the one who can't spend benjies without setting off alarms.
thestringpuller: i'm doing just fine with my duffelbag full of cash here.
asciilifeform: trinque: (a token sum was collected, but no one could be evicted for any reason short of death or having new digs in prison)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't get paid in benjies
thestringpuller: my employer said this is totally normal tho!
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: but, like most folks in my profession, in 'legit' electric bzollarz
asciilifeform: for a 'legit' firm, that keeps a single set of books and files taxes, etc
thestringpuller: that 1099
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.zillow.com/blog/rents-up-not-where-you-expect-170427/ < rents in the us are nearly 10% YoY in some cities
assbot: Rents Are Up, and Not Where You Might Expect | Zillow Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nnjffr )
asciilifeform is aware that we're probably boring the folks outside the u.s. zoolag to tears
thestringpuller: so tru story: buddy from high school was telling me about d00d who was a drug dealer but setup "consulting" llc for "professional coaching"
thestringpuller: d00d would just sell high end weed, and claim it as "consulting services" and would tax that
thestringpuller: ended up retiring before 40
trinque: sure, "computer repair"
thestringpuller: d00d even made invoices for his recurring clientelle
thestringpuller: pretty sure no one went to jail
trinque: yeah, I'm referring to a former friend of mine
trinque: "on site computer repair" bullshit
asciilifeform: laundries are as old as the state itself
thestringpuller: you can still go to jail for tax evasion
thestringpuller: US just wants their cut (not like it helps since we are bankrupt)
trinque: well... "bankrupt"
asciilifeform: incidentally, you will not necessarily go to jail - but the duffel bag - will.
asciilifeform: if ever 'caught'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i kno rite?!?
thestringpuller: so there is new drug unit in west georgia now
thestringpuller: soul purpose is collecting those duffelbags
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5029 @ 0.00040988 = 2.0613 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: in fact it is richest police unit in that county
asciilifeform: wait till they switch from plain static robbery to racket
asciilifeform: as always happens in a collapsing police state
thestringpuller: http://www.sheriff.douglas.ga.us/find.html << it is more of racket now me thinks
thestringpuller: the "evidence" is probably auctioned off under the table somewhere
thestringpuller: "The F.I.N.D. Unit has made forty-eight (48) traffic stops that resulted in the detection of bulk cash smugglers."
thestringpuller: "The total amount of United States Currency seized from the stops is: $13,647,160" << they just want new toys
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00040519 = 5.9563 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: https://github.com/search?q=gnatelim&type=Code << who can find anything there which isn't a) word salad or b) part of gcc ?
assbot: Search · gnatelim · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NnkATM )
asciilifeform: has gnatelim -ever- been fired in anger?
asciilifeform: by anyone ?
PeterL: mircea_popescu: Is F.DERP statement coming soon?
asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr'
asciilifeform: apparently no one actually reads it in earnest
asciilifeform examines source of 'gnatelim' and it appears that it is only able to snip dead code that is -actually represented in your source-
asciilifeform: why would you have dead routines in your own source?
asciilifeform: severe head trauma in childhood ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL being prepared. there's definitely going to be one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 40% or 90% is purely a wordchoice matter, much like the zhim thing. 5%ish is where it matters.
asciilifeform: aha, it's like the decision of how many thousand volts to use in electric chair
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller> and enron ruined pensions for everyone << if only. "My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to i
mircea_popescu: n his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00040327 = 8.7913 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: found via reading orlov's Lessons >> http://dieoff.org/
assbot: OVERSHOOT LOOP: Evolution Under The Maximum Power Principle ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdrODl )
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr' << lmao.
mircea_popescu: this takes the fucking cake,
mircea_popescu: open source is safe because it's read by millions of eyes, which we ban.
asciilifeform: was flipping through search results
asciilifeform: of that crud
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043334 << it would not. godel problem / surprise executio nproblem manifested for your convenience as slippage i guess.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:12:30; asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?
asciilifeform suspected
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for all the major differences between them and us, it occurs to me there's a very painfully obvious stylistical point : b-a.com doesn't have traffic tracking, github.com doesn't let you search.
mircea_popescu: verrrrry deep this "minor point'
asciilifeform: yet one or more optimal play variants must exist (in the sense the 'optimal' minimax game of chess exists. not in the sense that you could actually play that game or ever see so much as one move of it in life)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. the notion of "optimal" is undefined.
adlai: b-a.com doesn't log?
adlai: (log itself, not the channel)
mircea_popescu: adlai not iirc.
mircea_popescu: !s don't keep logs
assbot: 1 results for 'don't keep logs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=don%27t+keep+logs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: defined as 'what bits would you send back in time to time T1, if you could, from time T2, to maximize profit from investing C coin'
mircea_popescu: hm. it was discussed but i think long long ago, pre searchable stuff.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this isn't a definition tho.
mircea_popescu: "what would happen if it didn't happen ?"
asciilifeform: it's an existence proof
asciilifeform: say we limit the length of the string
mircea_popescu: nope. you use in one phase symbols that don't exist of the other.
asciilifeform: therefore one or more possible strings would result in max C'
mircea_popescu: '(what bits would you send back in time to time T1), if you could, from time T2, (to maximize profit from investing C coin)'
mircea_popescu: part 2 presumes part 1 doesn't exist.
asciilifeform can see where mircea_popescu is going - 'no clockwork universe' - but a trading engine in sufficiently small time span does behave rather like a clockwork universe
mircea_popescu: yes, it does, provided you don't take it out of there.
mircea_popescu: but you're proposing to do exactly that.
mircea_popescu: the moment you start doin this sort of thing it no longer behaves thusly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu doesn't 'believe in' infinitesimals either, does he
mircea_popescu: to put this to intuition : suppose in the alt-universe where your microscopic trade happened, another trader happened to see it and panic.
asciilifeform: 'butterfly' ?
asciilifeform read time machine stories as a kid just like everybody else
mircea_popescu: there are a number of hard rules of the world we inhabit, that children take some time to internalize. one is, of course, "move backwards through time" thing. what adolescent did not ponder this, wish it, etc.
mircea_popescu: another is the complexity problem. the simple fact that once the father has said "i know shit", if he opens his mouth enough to say as little as some basic math, he's now wrong.
mircea_popescu: they are of course related.
adlai: When we differ, Charlie usually ends the conversation by saying: “Warren,
adlai: think it over and you’ll agree with me because you’re smart and I’m right.”
mircea_popescu: in any event, all human folly is based on the failure to come to terms and trying to go through the wall.
mircea_popescu: like, the complexity problem guarantees no government will ever succeed. yet who's deterred from "empirebuilding".
mircea_popescu: the time direction thing never stopped anyone from thinking "hey, i could have done better!" or be bitter about how things turned out etc.
asciilifeform: the mouse is only really alive because he tries to go through the glass bottle
asciilifeform: at all times
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but this is from cause.
mircea_popescu: now look at it from the fallacious "purpose" perspective.
mircea_popescu: is he alive because he... means to ?
mircea_popescu: because he thinks he should have ?
asciilifeform: does steam 'mean to' burst a boiler with plugged valve ?
mircea_popescu: take this with a grain of salt, but here it is :
asciilifeform: the 'purpose' thing is just a demented lens for viewing anything
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00040988 = 3.6889 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: at its core, the "optimal retrospective investment" problem is a nude and rude proposition to replace the action imperative ("mouse must escape or die in the act of trying") with an imaginary junk. ("it could have been"). this is not substantially different from what the usg does when it invents a new name for the homeless and pretends to have "resolved the problem".
mircea_popescu: it "works" like all fatlogic works : because it's easier
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, utter waste of time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if waste of time, then what is the correct answer that machine like 'scalpl' is actually approximating when it grinds ?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: what is the correct code gcc approximates as it churns on cygwin ?
asciilifeform: it provably exists
asciilifeform: (not by demonstration. but by deduction)
mircea_popescu: for as long as the proof is wrong, yes, it provably exists.
mircea_popescu: the mere fact that you have such proof is sufficient proof that it is wrong.
mircea_popescu: its mere presence suffices.
asciilifeform: somewhat perverted understanding here
mircea_popescu: far be it from me to diss fiction - the creation of "proofs" we know from the outset to be false and then their taking apart to examine where they stole our eyes is exactly shakespeare's trade.
asciilifeform: is only non-provable in the general case
mircea_popescu: but this is the general case.
asciilifeform: for arbitrarily many specific cases - provable.
asciilifeform: for trivial example, the shortest program which does nothing at all is ''.
mircea_popescu: only if they don't include it. once you've included it... you've made it general.
asciilifeform: works on most machines, even!
mircea_popescu: no but see ?
asciilifeform: for the original line of reasoning, see chaitin.
mircea_popescu: looky here : for as long as you don't aim to use the "shortest program" thing for the purpose of attacking my statement, it is ok.
mircea_popescu: once you do, you're fucked. "works on most machines" now.
asciilifeform did carefully specify that the 'ideal play' is not actually findable
asciilifeform: in the general case.
mircea_popescu: well... chaitin and torkel should be refered together
mircea_popescu: very naggum-ish character actually. except iirc swedish
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:35; asciilifeform: you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043343 << anyway, this is what triggered the discussion, and to move on to more practical considerations :
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:19; asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve
mircea_popescu: making money is not a function of one's hard work and dilligence in the schoolhouse sense.
asciilifeform: what - in the actual world people inhabit - *is* a function of it?
mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.
mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, there are some classes of optimization problems ~once you're already rich~.
mircea_popescu: but this is conservation. one does not acquire wealth except one single way
asciilifeform: this is exactly how sov. textbooks described stock markets!
mircea_popescu: and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it.
mircea_popescu: the hoodlums trying to be drug lords in detroit have a lot more sense in this matter than the "business majors" coming out of harvard.
mircea_popescu: (some of the latter get it, but rare is that bird).
asciilifeform: 'have low serial number on your party card' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, us had a much better view of the soviets than the soviets, and vice-versa.
asciilifeform not convinced that the hoodlums have more 'sense' than the mouse in the bottle
mircea_popescu: the mouse in the bottle is a superlative of sense.
mircea_popescu: there's no more sense to be had.
asciilifeform: sure there is. an ant can bite in milliseconds.
asciilifeform: smaller nervous system, elementary
asciilifeform: the mouse thing is really about the virtues of not-thinking, no ?
mircea_popescu: it's about not spending your time writing fiction under the pretense of "thinking". the mouse excels at this.
asciilifeform: in that he doesn't have anything like an accurate internal model of his situation, in the bottle
mircea_popescu: but he does.
asciilifeform: really?
mircea_popescu: that's the thing. he does, more so than bill gates.
asciilifeform: mouse understands glass better than the bird (recall the bird film i posted? also persistent beast, also against glass!)
mircea_popescu: he doesn't understand the implementation details. but the situation, he understands just fine.
asciilifeform: i'm quite unconvinced that the bird did
mircea_popescu: prolly not.
asciilifeform: (he was trying to get -in-, for no apparent reason, rather than escape a jar)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35506 @ 0.00041126 = 14.6022 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: birds are really closer to insects than mammals.
mircea_popescu: from a software perspective.
mircea_popescu: it's basically a sort of windows nt, to replace windows 3.1. look, flashier plumage and mating dances!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10994 @ 0.00041265 = 4.5367 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: incidentally, i'm rather curious re: how a social animal (rat, wolf) would do in the bottle
mircea_popescu: i once found a fox leg in a bear trap.
asciilifeform: fight the glass to the death - or 'submit' to it as to a 'commanding officer'
asciilifeform: fox is famous for just this
asciilifeform: but not really pack animal, afaik
mircea_popescu: i guess not really no.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2NJFTX3.txt )
asciilifeform: i once caught a groundhog (marmota monax) in a zoological (cage) trap
asciilifeform: it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE1alBZ-qXI < there's a whole youtube genre of X vs. Y animal
assbot: Brown Recluse vs Wolf Spider Who will win - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdwOYI )
asciilifeform: obligatory:
assbot: Великая битва слона с китом.avi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdwSaX )
mircea_popescu: "superman beetle vs flash spider"
assbot: Hearing: Ukraine Under Siege | House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce, Chairman ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdxddG )
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:36:47; jurov: i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here
mircea_popescu: you're doin; fine.
mircea_popescu: well anyway, see y'all tomorro
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up << They tend to do that. Catch a good number with bad intentions towards the garden that way.
BingoBoingo: Strictly catch and release though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4850 @ 0.00041387 = 2.0073 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Granted it normally takes the better part of a salad to make the cage traps enticing to groundhogs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5418 @ 0.00041576 = 2.2526 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 435 @ 0.0125 = 5.4375 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 228 @ 0.0381 = 8.6868 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00041129 = 5.5524 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17007 @ 0.00040558 = 6.8977 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00041851 = 5.1267 BTC [+]
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.1718 BTC. Current weight: 84,321.
asciilifeform: can we get scoopbot on the therealbitcoin list ?
asciilifeform hasn't tested yet
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