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mp_en_viaje: so i'm sorta toying with the idea of starting a (romanian) political party.
mp_en_viaje: anyone think this is a fucking stupid notion ?
mp_en_viaje: (item also needs 3 founding members. diana_coman spyked you feel like being founding members ?)
nicoleci: mp_en_viaje, check out what i found in the logs: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-13#377762
a111: Logged on 2013-11-13 02:09 nubbins`: given that i'm really just here to mess with the signal-to-noise ratio, i'd like to see the latter
nicoleci: true fact?
mp_en_viaje: retrospectively i'm guessing it must've been ?
mp_en_viaje: where'd you run into that anyways
mp_en_viaje: lol check that shit out!
spyked: mp_en_viaje, re new ro party, what's the reasoning behind it? what would be different vs. http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/ ?
mp_en_viaje: ah, that was an attempt to help out a pre-existing item. (in fairness, romania hasn't had any ideas in 2-3 decades ; as it happens historically the iron guard was ~100% of the romanian modern culture, certainly in the 20th century)
mp_en_viaje: this would be an entirely new thing, reflect tmsr ideology, also help it develop/test out.
mp_en_viaje: in no particular order, militate for the restriction of the franchise, the introduction of the census vote (whereby property counts electorally), amending the constitution to male it illegal for state to own anything or be involved in economy, lower age of sexual consent to 12 and systematically introduce young women to the concept of the sexual market and why it's very fucking stupid to [http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selecti
mp_en_viaje: on-407.0-423.497][traditional stupidity], raise awareness among kids as to the losing idiocy of relationships within their age group, familiarize public with domestic and sexual slavery, promote the harem as the correct alternative to "traditional marriage" nonsense, on it goes.
mp_en_viaje: there's a bunch more re quashing the "aspirational" culture and the fraudulent practice of accomodating people's WoWoW pretense / being stars of their own film through the process of future promises, and on it goes.
mp_en_viaje: did i forget anything important ?
mp_en_viaje: a yeah, deny driver licenses to any who aren;t either professional drivers or in a liberal profession. and especially to "it experts", actresses/singers/newswomen etcetera.
mp_en_viaje: end pensions as a concept, remove personal bankruptcy (replace with prison term), restrict corporations to corporation sole, no more aggregate...
spyked needs to grok this for a bit. otoh, finds the experiment worthwhile, but a. has 0 exp with politics (other than following to some degree the local affairs) and b. doesn't know how would the battle on two fronts (i.e. the social-democrats and the xtian socialists) would work strategically
mp_en_viaje: how would any of these groups manage to give battle ?
spyked: at the very least teh psds are specialized in drawing votes from the general populace. as for xtians, that's (in my very limited experience) where most people who are not completely retarded lie, and they'll cling to that. but that's only as far as I know (which ain't much)
mp_en_viaje: spyked, yeah, but the interest's not in getting votes.
mp_en_viaje: the interest's in owning the idea space.
spyked: other than that, mentioning census vote and slavery to folx around me seems to lead to the usual humanrights/etc. reaction. their brains dun seem to go any further than that particular pattern match
mp_en_viaje: well, mentioning astronomy to folk in the 1890s led to spitting self.
mp_en_viaje: what sorta criteria can this ever be.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, whole fuckin thing's an exercise in unwinding, uprooting and destroying automatisms, "slavery => human rights" is not substantially different from "party -> votes" or "party name => democratic" or "party programme => we'd like all to be well" etc.
mp_en_viaje: if anything, the postmodern problem's the overabundance of automatisms.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: as a sort of tmsr.ro ? or what would the difference be exactly as I don't quite grok in what way a "political party" is not already included in tmsr as it were
mp_en_viaje: well, it;s not already included in any practical sense (as it doesn't exist). obv its included in all ideal senses, yes.
mp_en_viaje: but i mean, suppose i feel like redoing http://trilema.com/2010/domnisoare-nude-citind/ (probably in budapest). why no tmake it as Romanian Serene Republic party event, and why not say "it's in budapest because romania sucks".
mp_en_viaje: when i go back to cr, why not just leave the mp residence in yurp so others can enjoy a visit/stay ?
mp_en_viaje: all sorts and manner of practical considerations like these.
diana_coman: ah, you mean as a sort of practical irl item
mp_en_viaje: well, the same math that yielded "tmsr should get a church registered in the us", that then danielpbarron judged "these ppl are too dorky to bother for, i'd much rather work with some ok rurals" yields party in yurp.
mp_en_viaje: cuz it's not the same atmosphere, yes, there's no great advantages to eurochurch.
mp_en_viaje: but in any case, a seat in europarliament seems to me within conceivable achievement, esp if alliance.
mp_en_viaje: distant, if conceivable.
diana_coman: well, the way I see it, europarliament like everything else will soon be for everyone, they might even drag you in or something
mp_en_viaje: right ?
diana_coman: I mean: for the lulz,sure; other than that though, wtf would I want to be there.
diana_coman: there for.
mp_en_viaje: and other than that, the formal criterion ~reduces to "having candidate in 3 circumscriptions" or somesuch. which whatever, you get somebody to run for communal council @ancestral home
diana_coman: pretty much, yes
mp_en_viaje: in other words, it's pretty fucking cheap.
diana_coman: yes, but I'm still trying to grok if it's ...worth it; lol, my problems.
mp_en_viaje: well how the fuck could this be established afore the fact.
diana_coman: myeah; onth if one does *everything* that is cheap because it's cheap...
mp_en_viaje: seems to me groking pre-trying whether it'll be worth it likely will cost more than the trial.
diana_coman: time is the only real cost there.
mp_en_viaje: yet at the end of the day, the day's spent anyway. not like you can save time.
mp_en_viaje: anyways, i'm not pushing for an insta-answer or anything ; but my thinking is if you both are interested an' nobody comes up with some major unseen flaw, ima draw a draft statute/documents w/e an' talk to my lawyer about it.
diana_coman: no; you can however spend it on something else and I somehow never manage to run out of "something else"; but yes, I can see the idea; I don't know about who is there to do all the work and get it all growing
mp_en_viaje: but conversely : if there is someone we'll be none the sorrier for it. and if there isn't... what exactly do i have to regret re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911779 thing ? that i spent a few grand on getting that party the only headquarters it eve rhad ? or what, some booze some kids drank off me ?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:06 spyked: mp_en_viaje, re new ro party, what's the reasoning behind it? what would be different vs. http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/ ?
mp_en_viaje: i'm not even sure i could ever get to writing down a list so complete as to have that sorta nothing figure on its own merits on it.
mp_en_viaje: timewise... what, took maybe 8 hours of my time in 3-4 installments, i dun even recall.
diana_coman: heh, I'm probably too much used to ground-up building work i.e. if starting that then will have to get it off the ground with own hands if need be; hence -> time.
mp_en_viaje: but it did produce http://trilema.com/2013/romanias-new-right/#comment-93307 l which i daresay is one of the finest bits i ever wrote in romanian, not to mention a fineer piece than the iron guard ever produced
mp_en_viaje: this doesn't seem a small thing for me, that if "mp, radu gyr, mircea eliade etc go into a bar... and mp comes up uber alles".
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the idea is for it to be fun ; and it's fun when it's this thing of excellence, "what's the absolute best that could be done here".
mp_en_viaje: why i don't regret the above booklet like i don't regret http://trilema.com/2011/sfinta-inocenta-puberala/
diana_coman: 'dat font where d battles t...
diana_coman: reading it now, I seriously doubt the dorks in question knew all the words in there
mp_en_viaje: automatisms, right ? they just wanted it to be good, and to no tbe disturbed.
mp_en_viaje: romanians are fucking hysterical too, you aware they all dress alike ? there's this unviersal cvasi-goretex thing they ALL MUST WEAR
diana_coman: well, one uniform or another; being about as "right" as choosing that uniform over the other
mp_en_viaje: in other luzl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q5CY1/?raw=true << euro wank re "informed consent" resulted in... automated solution. there's a list of cookies this fairly popular ro magazine thinks it should get to use.
diana_coman: and I'm quite sure it also ignores them down the line anyway i.e. whatever you tick or not tick, it still does the same thing
diana_coman: ye olde approach, time-tested on "rules"
mp_en_viaje: yes, factually it just goes away on reload.
mp_en_viaje: also "was god".
mp_en_viaje: apparently lotta manic murder in ro, some rando dude stabbed his wife and two kids over easter "because at such times some elect must die"
diana_coman: funny how the elect are ~always those unlikely to have much chance fighting back
mp_en_viaje: apparently weirdo talked to the poor elects till they died.
mp_en_viaje: imagine this fucking horror, some dork stabs you in your sleep and then it's like "here, let me tell you what i think about chick-fill-a"
diana_coman: I had to switch to another machine to load that bzi stuff; that photo is basically "happy trio with various caps and beretts"
mp_en_viaje: apparently dood went bankrupt, ran off to miami, came back sovereign citizen living with wife, mom and grandmother.
diana_coman: well, hard to believe she hadn't previous training ignoring his bla bla so ..
mp_en_viaje: the harem term being 'shwarmy", because there's an army of these shawn dudes.
diana_coman: "a aderat la un cult si din aceasta cauza a devenit de nerecunoscut"
diana_coman: da' in tot cazul, biata bunica
mp_en_viaje: oh, in other lulz : soros aids vice media to the tune of quarter bn.
mp_en_viaje: apparenty this huffpo not ready to huff po just yet.
mp_en_viaje: very http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891911 flavour to it, as far as i can see. "oh my god, scandalous!!!". wtf, lame club grinding
a111: Logged on 2019-02-02 22:53 mircea_popescu: you mean the idle schmuck that had a topless wife for an occasion once and they all threw a ridoinculous fit ?
diana_coman: I don't think there is much that in there; different sorts of ridoinculous as far as I can see i.e. the schmuck that found himself with money vs the schmucks that found themselves "writing a newspaper".
mp_en_viaje: yeah, neither's very good at what they do, huh.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other topics, "O fată în vârstă de 13 ani, din comuna Negomir, judeţul Gorj, este însărcinată în cinci luni, după ce ar fi întreţinut relaţii sexuale cu un vecin în vârstă de 63 de ani." ; "Studentă la medicină, goală puşcă în centrul Iaşului. A fost prinsă de poliţişti într-o scară de bloc. Tânăra de 26 de ani vorbea în limba franceză, scrie presa locală.
mp_en_viaje: Fata a fost preluată de echipaje de Poliţie şi SMURD şi transportată la Spitalul de Psihiatrie "Socola" Iaşi." ; "Răzvan Ciobanu, bătut crunt de față cu vecinii. Scene cumplite trăite de regretatul designer înainte de moarte"
diana_coman: numai cine n-a chiar trait la sat/ vorbit pe bune cu oamenii de acolo crede c-ar fi ceva asa extraordinar si de neintalnit
mp_en_viaje: ie, 13 yo girl past abortion, father is 63yo neightbour ; some chick stripped naked in moldavia, evidently she must be insane (spoke french, which no sane people ever do, esp women), taken over to mental hospital by fire dept) argie levels of lulz ; anon faggot ("clothes designer") beaten up by his bf. cuz obv gotta be gay if "clothes designer"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 22:09 mircea_popescu: in other news, mp takes girl to picnic at neighbourhood park, she goes naked, within 15 minutes there's half a dozen local cops around the blanket being all concerned.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, yup ; hence http://trilema.com/2009/fata-satului/ etc.
mp_en_viaje: "Anamaria Suru, în vârstă de 29 de ani, a fost găsită fără viaţă, luni, 22 aprilie, pe marginea unui drum forestier din pădurea din localitatea Secu, la aproximativ trei kilometri de Reşiţa." for the dead hookers files.
mp_en_viaje: pretty lively place.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911825 <-- tbh, other than the opportunity cost, I'm not even entirely sure of the details of *what* work this involves, i.e. cu ce se mananca. or whether I have what it takes etc. but I'm curious of the outcome, given the current state of ro politics. I live here, for one, so...
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:53 diana_coman: no; you can however spend it on something else and I somehow never manage to run out of "something else"; but yes, I can see the idea; I don't know about who is there to do all the work and get it all growing
spyked will come back to (re)digesting logs and discussion threads later today
mp_en_viaje: well, if you live there don't you have any elders who were ever involved ?
mp_en_viaje: ask uncle vania, the communal councillor or w/e.
spyked: mp_en_viaje, only one, and just recently (2000s, during basescu electorals). but yeah, that's a good idea
mp_en_viaje: by all means.
diana_coman: re ro politics, while my hometown is one in which ~everything is "political" (petrol industry), that part was always more about feathering X's or Y's nest so I wouldn't use that to get an idea of anything; onth re what I see as political, the way the situation in Ro reads to me is that ultimately people are desperately (and beyond i.e. without hope) looking for someone to take responsibility aka a master essentially.
diana_coman: lacking that, some (generally older but not only) will look up to psd as it (seems to, at least) takes responsibility for their food at least (poisoned as it might be but...);
mp_en_viaje: not even specifically romanian, this.
mp_en_viaje: the ustards've been hoping for the black man to magically rise up and take over for decades.
diana_coman: others (generally younger) who already have in fact the employer-master taking the food-responsibiliy off their shoulders will look up instead to usr/pdl/wtf (I can't quite recall whatever they are nowadays)
diana_coman: basically for a different hole that they think it'll fill
diana_coman: well no, there is no national specific re human needs after all
mp_en_viaje: whatever, you know, in the end everyone cu pizda ma-sii, the problems of others are the problems of others, the problem of the individual is adequate expression, lest he becomes an intellectual & starts "resisting through culture"
diana_coman: certainly; not as if one's own problems are not generally more than enough to keep one busy.
mp_en_viaje: indeed.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911793 << iirc there were a few similar trololols on this here side of ocean. e.g. 1 fella ran for pres on platform consisting solely of 'will have bush -- impaled'
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:31 mp_en_viaje: spyked, yeah, but the interest's not in getting votes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911785 << hrm... reintroduction of titles of nobility ?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:11 mp_en_viaje: did i forget anything important ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911824 << the 1 risk is that mp_en_viaje & co might actually end up in office an' consequently herding swine. rly, want to herd swine ?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:50 mp_en_viaje: anyways, i'm not pushing for an insta-answer or anything ; but my thinking is if you both are interested an' nobody comes up with some major unseen flaw, ima draw a draft statute/documents w/e an' talk to my lawyer about it.
asciilifeform cannot comment in moar detail : the care & feeding of trollparties is quite far out of asciilifeform's depth
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911809 << Giving spyked a chair in EU parliament seems like great PR/Marketing opportunity
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:46 mp_en_viaje: but in any case, a seat in europarliament seems to me within conceivable achievement, esp if alliance.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, this has ~nothing to do with presidency tho
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, this "risk" happened once before, mp & friends (tho in all fairness friends & mp) invented party and in a few years took it to leading government. mp wanted no office, left.
mp_en_viaje: (party went to shit, as it happens, but these things happen)
asciilifeform: i confess , try as i might i dun see the point ( in light of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-18#1826391 historical record ) but if mp_en_viaje sees point, who am i to say he oughtn't .
a111: Logged on 2018-06-18 15:36 asciilifeform: btw one pheature of lenin & co that gets vehehery little press these days , when folx like to point out 'he didn't overthrow , other factions did all the work' : lenin & co refused, out of principle, to participate in any 'temporary government' derpage at all.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, what's the relation ?
asciilifeform: in re 'coalition governments' as practiced in current europistan
mp_en_viaje: seems rather opposite, lenin went back to moscow formed microscopic lolparty. by any measure bolsheviks were a numeric joke.
asciilifeform: right, had lolparty, but it refused to participate in coalitions.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the two are not the same thing afaik ; but anyway, romanian govt traditionally is formed with hungarian party. was at the time ayways.
asciilifeform: this is interesting -- for what do the hungarians stand ? ( 'give back timis ?' )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, well, either that or refused to admit it. "a majority of mensheviks" etc.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, mostly hungarian language schooling and some local level independence.
asciilifeform: the mexicans a++ achieved this in usa somehow w/out a party, tho
mp_en_viaje: well, by being the majority of the workers.
asciilifeform: apropos of thread, we just had a 'city dogcatchers' election here. mayor re-elected unopposed.
asciilifeform: nobody could be arsed to run against'im.
mp_en_viaje: typical ourdemocracy.
asciilifeform: entirely typical. as far back as i can remember, went exactly like so.
asciilifeform: since mp_en_viaje asked for nitpicks : how does http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911782 work w/ the existence of 'varanul' et al ? seems like they have the 'properties' , and so automagically end up with controlling share ?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:10 mp_en_viaje: in no particular order, militate for the restriction of the franchise, the introduction of the census vote (whereby property counts electorally), amending the constitution to male it illegal for state to own anything or be involved in economy, lower age of sexual consent to 12 and systematically introduce young women to the concept of the sexual market and why it's very fucking stupid to [http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selecti
asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand some part of this, the recipe adds up to a faster, moar streamlined version of ukraine
diana_coman: reading the list of romanian parties from tmb.ro yields all sorts of lol including "party of pensioners and social protection" that became of people and social protection
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, so let them end up with controlling share. great wealth comes with great responsibility ; this can't be fixed from downstream because oh noes.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, imagine if you will, the total historical count is under 200.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: as i understand they have it already -- for what then need party.
asciilifeform: they had it since '90s... like the result ?
mp_en_viaje: romanians have got to be some of the lest politically active / creative people ever invented.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i dun care about results.
mp_en_viaje: that's what's called principled.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: well yes, I saw that (list includes parties that were registered, even if not existing anymore)
mp_en_viaje: yes, everything historically.
asciilifeform: if result dun matter -- then why not do $whatever -- and with hookers, blackjack.
asciilifeform: then all you need is to enjoy process.
mp_en_viaje: ~because~. "results matter" === http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 ; you don't code like this, you code like "it's this because this is what it has to be"
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
asciilifeform: dunno, from asciilifeform's pov when he rolls up sleeves to build sumthing, result -- matters, it is not indifferent whether e.g. fg produces even spectrum or 1010101...
asciilifeform: nao, ~with what~ you get result , also matters. but if picked 'whalebone' for 'with what fg', might have problem.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: politics is a very alien thing ; and tbh part of the exercise I see precisely in actually showing what that is as opposed to what it "came to be"; similar to what "afaceri" seems to mean if you look at "afaceristi" and so on
mp_en_viaje: and if it did produce 1010101 would you add whitener /
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, certainly.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: no, but might re-enroll in kindergarten, lol
mp_en_viaje: so then.
diana_coman: but I have to admit that I wouldn't say that I actually have any political experience.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not going to break politics just because romanians gatherfed in large groups, did the student thing where everyone dropped a buck and thereby invented some schmuck "just as good as any Mircea come from afar"
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, yet you seem to do ok here.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: outta curiosity, only varanul + other native scum get to be earls, or can e.g. putin buy dukedom ? how about soros ?
mp_en_viaje: what dukedom anyway ?
asciilifeform: err, whatever the term is to be, for the 'voting stock'
mp_en_viaje: ah. sure, why not.
asciilifeform: ( fief ? )
diana_coman: as I'm still digesting the whole thing, I still find that my mind keeps going on to "guild" more than to "political party" ; perhaps I see political party as too limited though I really just need to read more on it first (and admitedly, I doubt there is the guild form as such in Ro, lolz)
mp_en_viaje: people who buy a bitcoin also get a bitcoin
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, guilds were professional organisations. this is a political entity.
diana_coman: well yes, they certainly started as professional though it's not as if they didn't end up political too.
asciilifeform: perhaps microshit will put in a bid. ( they seem to really like ro for some reason )
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, yes, but political along professional lines.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, no franchise for corps (and no aggregate corps in the first place)
asciilifeform: so then will have to be ballmer personally.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: buying is an honest process. It's possible to price a purchase. The current herpity derp herd the derps process is fundamentally dishonest.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: can't disagree with this.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, dude wants to vote in romania, he can buy it now as well.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1911817 << this means things you likely do not imagine.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 08:48 mp_en_viaje: in other words, it's pretty fucking cheap.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc ~this~ already for sale ( i even got a quote ) but sorta ridic. price (iirc 800k ameridubloons )
asciilifeform: ... and it only came with 1 vote!11
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: which things ?
mp_en_viaje: for some reason you make ineptitude a point of pride. https://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-arhiva-1248255-4-000-voturi-cumparate-pentru-nastase.htm was more the point.
mp_en_viaje: as it stands being mayor of some small town somewhere will run you less than what a toyota costs.
asciilifeform: aa ukr-style
asciilifeform: ok makes sense
mp_en_viaje: more like athens style. democracy is democracy.
mp_en_viaje: they're all little alcibiades.
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> as it stands being mayor of some small town somewhere will run you less than what a toyota costs. << And if the Balmers et al run up the cost of mayorship, that is a damned honest signal to the rest of the world that giving away the franchise to all that fall out of a cunt for free is gravely underpricing the franchise.
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 95mn from mats outbidding PeterL. Ending: 2019-05-08 11:56:28.887251 UTC (6 hours 14 mins)
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, not to mention, at least give the stupid cunts a fair price for their whoredom.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, what difference is there between a herd of "electorate" kept captive for just 2-3 chosen morons to "buy their votes", and a herd of "ambitious young women" kept captive for just 2-3 chosen morons to "seduce" them ?
BingoBoingo: Right. Gotta undo all the dishonest pricing Pantsuit debasement inflicted on the world
asciilifeform: iirc there was a mircea_popescu piece re similar 'give'em price' from '90s, where the derps sold off their privatized flats a la ru
mp_en_viaje: let there be free and open competition among the users, if 17yo boi wants to fuck primo cunt, let him pay market value, not get govt subsidy. and similarily throughout the board.
mp_en_viaje: ori suntem liberali ori nu mai suntem.
hanbot: & hallo #t
asciilifeform: hanbot: item turned out to be obsoleted by BingoBoingo's work, as i understand. but i'ma let mp tell me how to properly dispose of it (or whether to try an' bring it back to life)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to invoice asciilifeform for expense, if reqd.
mp_en_viaje will go peek over hanbot 's shoulder, wtf is this even.
asciilifeform: hanbot, mp_en_viaje : i assumed the service expired given as i did not go to renew.
BingoBoingo doesn't recall obsoleting anything recently
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: was experimental item from long time ago, prior to your expedition .
BingoBoingo: Ah, thought this may be Cuntoo related
mp_en_viaje: oh, right, forgot about this.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, eh, listen you. it's very bad form, this infantile "ima start things and forget about them". you didn't want it anymore, cuz for whatever reason, can just call the guy and tell him so, not end up with lengthy service you didn't want / did not intend to use. or for that matter answers his emails or w/e. wtf expire, who ever heard of such a thing.
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, so you want it closed ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: can you think of a use for it ?
asciilifeform: i currently can't, but this does not mean there isn't one
asciilifeform: ( also mp_en_viaje can pleez try an' convince fella to actually use pgp ? i tried in 3 languages, could not )
mp_en_viaje: i dunno dood, same as always, pay 3% income tax, get 16% discount on euro-vat for construction materials, have employer at your disposal for w/e purposes you might want to employ for, it's a list.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, is that what broke down comms then ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: aha
mp_en_viaje: well, so say this then, and you know, in time. fucking ridiculous to let things just rot in the fridge.
mp_en_viaje: i end up doing debugging of others affairs years later wth am i.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i had nfi fridge dutifully preserved the contents in liquid helium and racked up bill, lol. entirely fair if mp_en_viaje invoices asciilifeform for same.
mp_en_viaje: well yeah, it's like domain names say, or hosting or any other such thing. can't just discontinue it, nobody knows what priceless jewelry dood has in there.
mp_en_viaje: think for a moment what chaos'd ensue if that were how it worked.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you think s.nsa can get some mileage out of the item, let's keep it, otherwise plox to dispose, i cannot in good conscience try an' power it with own steam , gotta save the coinz for piz work
mp_en_viaje: i figure if nothing occured since 2017, might as well bury it.
asciilifeform: if it ends up needed again, can potentially bake new one .
mp_en_viaje: well yes, but not if you get a reputation for doing inane bs.
asciilifeform: fella won't pgp! what, i'm to buy plane ticket erry time ?
mp_en_viaje: i have no idea! conceivably tell him, "dood looky, this is entirely dependent on pgp". not get item you're not satisfied with, i dunno. complain at some point somewhere, so i don't find myself in this weird position where i'm asked about things i dunno about and dunno what to say ?
mp_en_viaje: nfi what his issue is either, i left him a laptop for the express purpose, free of charge, all set up.
asciilifeform: i did tell him, in (what i thought was passable) ro, then eng, we tried ru also, lol
asciilifeform: apparently not worked.
mp_en_viaje: apparently.
asciilifeform: ( tried deutsch also but he said nein )
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/05/dying-of-the-light-in-detroit-new-led-streetlights-approaching-systemic-failure/ << Qntra -- Dying Of The Light In Detroit: New LED Streetlights Approaching Systemic Failure
mp_en_viaje: right, cuz the good-for-century sodium lamps were no good.
asciilifeform: philips cartel gotta eat lol
BingoBoingo: I doubt Detroit's electricity is clean enough to support diodes
mp_en_viaje: sodium lamps are some of the highest efficiency, most voltage-variation tolerant light sources known. and by "some of" i mean the.
mp_en_viaje: none of that "high pressure" mercury alloy bs, either.
mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, it makes older women look unattractive". who the fuck are you putting street lamps in for, hillary clinton an' her merry band of disavowed streetwalkers ?
mp_en_viaje: the switch from most efficient engineeringly best city lights (they're even good for light pollution, least light polluting public source, specifically for the same reason) towards expensive, toxic, ineffective, harmful an' generally bullshit "alternatives" just because sodium spectral emission's unflattering to old bags gotta be the cleanest example of why generalized peripueral fever's much preferable to merkelism.
asciilifeform: sodium a+++ lamp, where in edisonic lamp filament sublimates and sputters onto the glass, in sodium lamp the sublimated tungsten ends up going ~right back~ onto filament ( if somehow could be made to go back to exactly same place as came from -- lamp would be in fact eternal. as it is, 10y or so )
asciilifeform: an' i dun recall anybody whining about spectra back in gas lamp days.
asciilifeform: srsly wtf, i wouldn't even have conceived of it as what someone would whine about.
a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: they pass an old man who says, 'don't drown this fellow. i'll feed him dumplings, he won't have to do any work but to dip them'
asciilifeform: incidentally, it is in fact possible to buy diode lamp that ain't a piece of shit. but strictly from chinese, and it costs actual dough, and physically large (flat heat sink, ~removable~ rectifier)
asciilifeform: after yrs of spitting, found item , and even verified w/ oscilloscope that it dun flicker . ( why tried at all ? ceiling fixture, bitch to change lamps in )
asciilifeform: aand as such stories often end : coupla yrs later, tried to buy a 2nd, only to find that orig maker has vanished.
asciilifeform: ( philips has long hands?? nfi )
BingoBoingo: And unflattering for the right reason. Great visibility!
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 94mn from PeterL outbidding mats. Ending: 2019-05-08 11:56:28.887251 UTC (3 hours 16 mins)
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, nah, it's very close to the zone where humans don't perceive color at all.
mp_en_viaje: case of "either be THIS rosy on the cheek or else look gray"
BingoBoingo: Not all visibility is a color thing. It's a high contrast effect. Take away their color and the old hags are all fault.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i bought the "edison lamps", but the filament rather than the fake diode ones, fully expecting they'll go out in a month. they're still lighting cr fortress, easily 2, maybe even 3k hours later.
mp_en_viaje: left me with large supply of spares, as i bought 3x the installed inventory, had not yet opportunity to change any.
asciilifeform: by 'edison' i meant specifically the classic filament one aha
asciilifeform: ( incidentally if you run'em undervoltage, can get many decades of use )
asciilifeform: the ones sold (yes still sold, somehow) in usa, are 100% cartel-compliant, go for about a yr.
asciilifeform: when asciilifeform was 'fresh off the boat' in '92, filament lamp was good for 2-3y.
asciilifeform: late sovok lamp -- similar
asciilifeform: ( i suspect, slavish copy of philips )
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile by reading through old tomes, „ Alan M. Turing thought about criteria to settle the question of whether Machines Can Think, a question of which we now know that it is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can Swim”
mp_en_viaje: i'm still not fucking agreeing with djikstra's hipsterism. "submarines can swim" from point a to point b. argentine submarines evidently can't fucking swim ; and djikstra's a fucking retard for imagining "moving through water" is a good model for "thinking".
a111: Logged on 2018-07-29 16:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838170 << argentines are literally and without exageration a bunch of soy farmers who pretend FOR NO REASON conceivable, a circumstance of which they are aware AND PRETEND IT DOES NOT MATTER! AT ALL!, pretend they say they're something in the vein of "third power in europe". and that they might have such things as submarines, and so on. it's literally pig going through girls' charm cabinet a
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: funnily enuff, 'whether submarines swim' dunwork in ru ( where both boat and man 'swim' ) , similarly to how in eng both airplane and bird 'fly'
mp_en_viaje: it's god damned fucking relevant, whether machines can think, specificaly because thinking's an open ended process. movement is not fucking open ended, which is why it admits exterior criteria in the first place,
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, it;s offensively fucking stupid, why i even mention it. nfi how otherwise bright minds end up with this sorta shit between the ears.
asciilifeform: i confess i dun see where is the problem. airplane flies, tho quite unlike sparrow, comp kompyoots, etc
mp_en_viaje: yes, but can it think ?
asciilifeform: (luckily for operator) it doesn't, lol . just like luckily for pilot, boeing doesn't have to be coaxed to depart from shitting on statue in park and fly in straight line
mp_en_viaje: "hammer drives nails" "so if i ever need a nail driven i can use it ?" "definitely" "what's a computer do" "it kompyoots" "what's that ?" "umm..." "so what class of problem can it solve for me ?" "well, if you're one day bored..." "this never happens" "how about if you feel like helping many people you've never met ?" "..."
mp_en_viaje: what is the computer a tool for ?
asciilifeform: shitting out log table for her majesty's navy with slightly fewer eggogs!111
mp_en_viaje: that's a calculator.
mp_en_viaje: i know what those are already.
mp_en_viaje: "well mp... it can do metaexpansion" "really ?!" "nope. but at least you get to debug it." "really ?!" "just kidding"
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 01:46 asciilifeform grunting out a wp colorizer mode for peh, and it's maddening, php is ~undebuggable garbage
asciilifeform: it's still a calculator, lol. ( recall, 'computer' was simply name of a kind of shoemaker, i.e. d00d who would calculate repeatedly based on given 'loop' )
mp_en_viaje: if it's a calculator why does it have control instructions.
asciilifeform: so owner dun have to press button as often, lol
mp_en_viaje: you're not telling the whole truth here, seeing how even peh ended up with a stack. i know when i'm being led on, the computer's clearly not a calculator.
asciilifeform: why's 'calculator with loop' somehow 'not calculator' ?
asciilifeform: seems like a matter of convention
mp_en_viaje: same reason armchair with dentist's not armchair.
mp_en_viaje: also "matter of convention". also matter of painvention.
asciilifeform: i expected to hear sumthingmoar like 'why machinegun is not rifle'
mp_en_viaje: ever see someone bashing literal head against literal wall over a division ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yes, actually. in ameri-school, can see not only this.
mp_en_viaje: yes, expected. but that expectation's not right. why https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/20/96/fe91e3fba3f74c392717b5e132544a3e.jpg is not helmet.
asciilifeform: wtf am i looking at lol
asciilifeform: ant-face cage ??
mp_en_viaje: a helmputer.
mp_en_viaje: like a helmet, except it doesn't protect the skull.
asciilifeform: are those graphite rods in the spikes ? do they take 220v ?
mp_en_viaje: shotgun shells
asciilifeform: ahahahaha
mp_en_viaje: took the 24v already
asciilifeform: creative.
asciilifeform: who was this hero
mp_en_viaje: as you say, "so owner dun have to press button as often"
asciilifeform: pretty great tho. engineers on their way out have been building finely crafted autoguillotines for 200y nao , it was high time someone took it to 'next level'
asciilifeform pictures the lucky fella in the evidence locker who was given that thing to wash
mp_en_viaje: prolly just fromaldehyde bath for a week
asciilifeform: i wonder if builder was a former nuke maintainer. setup is suspiciously reminiscent of ye olde pit detonator setup.
asciilifeform: with head in place of pu
asciilifeform wonders if d00d took care to length-match the wires
mp_en_viaje: afaik was teen
mp_en_viaje: and yes
asciilifeform: srsly, i gotta take off hat, how often can you say 'engineered, built, did EXACTLY what was supposed to, with 8x margin'
mp_en_viaje: well, not commonly in computing.
asciilifeform: fg nervously smokes in the corner.
mp_en_viaje: which is why i chose this illustration. apparently helmputer can exist.
mp_en_viaje: why computer ?
mp_en_viaje: (but the "gotta take off hat" was pretty lulzy i must admit)
asciilifeform: why chainsaw.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/k5LJR << what appears to be orig src. spicy detail, 'He knew something about the skull: thicker and stronger at the front where he placed three shells. it would have made more sense – for maximum kill power – to put the shells at his temples, but it seems like he may have been trying to tic boxes for both homogenous skull obliteration and maximum death'
asciilifeform: with manual backup detonator. respect.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, point is, that the helmputter seems a much better design ~towards the same goals~ as these computer things.
asciilifeform: 'national razor' also best, from this pov, razor.
asciilifeform: closest shave.
asciilifeform had old piece on roughly this subj but not quite as effective.
asciilifeform: while we're on the 'best comp is the 1 that takes off yer head to shorten the misery' thread : asciilifeform did in fact get sumthing like a working highlighting from yesterday's crock of shit . but still can't trust it to actually not fuck the job , demonstrating mp_en_viaje's point
a111: Logged on 2019-05-08 02:13 asciilifeform: used it for many many yrs on my www , but never before attempted custom lang config .
asciilifeform: i.e. still stuck manually walking over the output errytime
asciilifeform: which i suppose is improvement on manually colouring the input with pencil, but grr.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-26 03:21 asciilifeform: 'certain languages support serious programmers, and others don't. e.g., I don't think it is at all possible to become a serious programmer using Visual Basic or Perl. if you think hard about what Perl code will do on the borders of the known input space, your head will explode. if you write Perl code to handle input problems gracefully, your programs will become gargantuan: the normal failure mode is to terminate with no id
mp_en_viaje: that wasnt the argument.
mp_en_viaje: the argument was that it seems so far that the "can computers think" question is not misplaced. in fact, even the question "are computers anything besides elaborate skull crushers" is not misplaced.
mp_en_viaje: in that their actual utility is open ended, THEREFORE the "can they think" line of inquiry is valid.
asciilifeform: grr i was gonna add that famous lathe meat-wind pic to this thread, but cannot nao find.
asciilifeform: ( fella put hand on working lathe, wrapped like cord on the bobbin, meat squeezed like toothpaste from skin )
asciilifeform: imho 'think' is very narrow term, and oughta refer to what the operator is expected to be doing, and not the comp, lathe, saw.
asciilifeform: when operator begins to expect tool to 'think', he has taken 1st step to becoming toothpaste.
asciilifeform: erry power tool is 'elaborate skull crusher', some merely moar obviously than others.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu , just as asciilifeform , knows what it is to have robot arm go through plate glass and stop inch short of face. in such case the equivalence becomes very obvious.
asciilifeform even suspects that this magic moment is a necessary ingredient in apprentice's learning not to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
asciilifeform once actually said, to understudy, long ago : 'picture if when you overrun a buffer, you were to lose half yer face'
asciilifeform: observe that it was not asciilifeform who devised e.g. ada. it came from the (nao mostly dead) world where this kinda thing was understood .
auctionbot: Buy order # 1047 has ENDED: 500 WFF, WU esta bien SOLD by PeterL for 94mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell PeterL Settle tomorrow morning like last time?
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the problem here is this : i have various constructions in the real world, built out of people, who indeed think. their thinking covers 99% or so of the cases they encounter ; when a 1% strikes, they kick it up the ladder.
mp_en_viaje: three or four such ladders permit me to intellectually support VERY far reaching organisms, made of "thinking" people. the hard sense of think is this -- will dispose of ~any~ problem. yet the practical sense of think is, "useful as working piece in such organism".
mp_en_viaje: now, the question isn't whether computers can think in the sense of, stand in for mp.
mp_en_viaje: the question is neither whether computers can think in the sense of finding some place in there -- eminently already have.
mp_en_viaje: that'd be a "think" more like submarine swimming.
mp_en_viaje: the question of "can computers think" becomes "how far can this actually go", just how useful a computer can there be built.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, this literally means there'll be computers smarter than MOST people. heck, extant computers already are smarter than most people, hence http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
BingoBoingo: From the computers are better than file: http://archive.is/isTJS
mp_en_viaje: between incel & excel, there's ourdemocracy nudly whole.
PeterL: bingoboingo: actually, I was able to get into WU just before cloing time
lobbesbot: PeterL: Sent 2 hours ago: <BingoBoingo> Settle tomorrow morning like last time?
PeterL: * closing
PeterL: !!invoice BingoBoingo 0.094 Pizarro WFF Action 8May2019
PeterL: !!v 3A93B4865215B6E58096D7774BA4B36F4F499169B6F839578C651CCCF3178F32
deedbot: Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.094 << Pizarro WFF Action 8May2019
BingoBoingo: PeterL: ty
BingoBoingo: Will pick up in the morning
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