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whaack: !!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 2
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whaack: !!v CFBFCC094E40EA43B45CEC450C776DA79F2DA8690175F32D3D95C73D296D6394
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BingoBoingo: !!up mp_en_viaje
deedbot: mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes.
mp_en_viaje: ty
BingoBoingo: Np
BingoBoingo: What's the latest local delight?
mp_en_viaje: momentarily misplaced launch codes, slavegirl will bring about momentarily.
mp_en_viaje: eh, mostly bothering people in myriad incomprehensible ways.
mp_en_viaje: << >> and all that.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 21:26 asciilifeform: near as i can tell, these folx simply sat down and 'wrote c++ in ada', is all there was to it.
a111: Logged on 2014-08-20 01:01 asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item. Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: rrright, but picture whole block o'flats fulla ~only~ these, nuffin else
mp_en_viaje: so you mean like, paris, right ?
asciilifeform: possibly, i haven't looked inside post-obummer paris..
mp_en_viaje: ever since the whole strauss-kahn thing, france's been such a lulzy rumpstate...
mp_en_viaje: we mock england for being a butthole, but really, northern algiers is no better merely for not being mentioend.
BingoBoingo: Ever since the mundial I've been shitting on the French with the locals here.
BingoBoingo: "Who on this team looks... French?"
mp_en_viaje: well, they all look uruguayan :D
asciilifeform: afaik fr was zombie at least since de gaulle died
BingoBoingo: Sure, the Uruguayo team does. French team had all of two French dudes and a roster full of Africa.
mp_en_viaje: << yeah, the prior art is ~done. "avionics people" my left foot.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 21:37 diana_coman: I suspect by now the "Ada-space" is rather mapped since I keep bumping into the same names
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'avionics people' -- tried as i might, found only the hole, but not the fossil. ( ~somebody~ pressed for the lang standard to have the knobs. but who? and where used ? i do not know to this day )
mp_en_viaje: << most of the code is old/<tinyfont>commercial/inhouse/</tinyfont>vaporware/rumorware ; in any case unpublished.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 21:38 asciilifeform: it's roughly similar to the commonlisp situation -- most of the extant coad is old/commercial/inhouse, unpublished.
mp_en_viaje: you know, archeologists are the guys who reconstruct a mastoton out of a tooth. NOT out of the hole where the tooth could have went,
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: boeing claims ada in 7xx series. but i have no means to verify .
mp_en_viaje: which whole pile reminds me of the famous mobster from chicago (in guys and dolls). the guy who had his custom-made dice erased, so he could remember ~where the spots formerly were~.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, moreover, mcdonalds claims meat in "food" series.
asciilifeform: it does?! ( i thought they carefully avoid making any such concrete claim.. )
mp_en_viaje: hm.
mp_en_viaje: i might've been talking out of ass!
asciilifeform: possibly BingoBoingo knows
asciilifeform: i dunno re mcd, but specifically recall a protracted litigation-wank re who gets to claim to sell 'chocolate' in the reich
asciilifeform: iirc ended with the old ban on peddling liquishit with ~0 actual ch. in it, as 'chocolate', formally overturned
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, somewhat if vaguely related : "but mp, why don't you get so and so internet stick from so and so provider ? it's like 3 euro / mo!" "linux" "no, it supports linux too!" "you got one ?" "yes actually".
mp_en_viaje looks at the wonder. it's something else, requires adobe air, atop a lengthy pile of other bullshit. the comments "#added by yong wong" in the ~100kb (that ~requires root~) are the lulz of all time.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i confess , i assumed you were already connecting through a 'buy a local simcard' thing of 1 kind or another
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> possibly BingoBoingo knows << They claim meat. Granted 1 mm thick hamburger pattys
mp_en_viaje: even THESE FUCKTARDS understand they need the wot, ideologically dedicated as they are to pretending otherwiswe.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, nah.
asciilifeform: ( or did mp_en_viaje drag a sovok-style satellite rig with him... might explain the 200kg lol )
mp_en_viaje: that actually travels separately, hence the selenar silences.
mp_en_viaje: << she has a point, since we picked it up a few years ago it became the new fashionable buzzword to drop in conversations among wanna-be pubes "in the know". happened maybe a year or so ago.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-09 21:47 diana_coman: the easy gauge would be - go mention Ada and see reaction; far from "martian artefact" style; but that being said, I'm not giving it as "fact, here it is, started on x-y-z at 5pm"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i have nfi what the ' ~100kb (that ~requires root~) ' horror might be, the only ones i've ever used simply present as a hayes-style modem via usb (a la FG)
asciilifeform: i reviewed several in the logs, in '14-'15
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, isn't a pube the best possible contraction denoting the moron adolescens ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-08 11:51 mp_en_viaje: moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl
asciilifeform: huawei's item was the champ, even worked (with a little perling) to send/receive voice calls (why to do this, is separate q, but it does work)
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i suppose i can publish it for your lulz, if you care.
mp_en_viaje: 4G!!!!
asciilifeform: i never had the '4g' one
asciilifeform: these iirc need buncha init gnarl, and dun 'hayes' no moar
mp_en_viaje: aha.
asciilifeform: nor did i ever feel burning urge for 30MB/s on gsm -- who the hell pumps wares via a 'pay per MB' sim toy
mp_en_viaje: this is supposedly fixed monthly pay. i have nfi, i confess the pricing in telecom fails to make any sense to me, and has, for a while.
mp_en_viaje: looks ~exactly like state-backed imaginary non-economic activity, from my (admittedly disinterested) pov.
asciilifeform: well they're crown monopolies in most of europistan, neh
asciilifeform: so unsurprise
mp_en_viaje: possibly.
asciilifeform: << i cannot resist to ask, where did mp_en_viaje spot this
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 16:38 mp_en_viaje: << she has a point, since we picked it up a few years ago it became the new fashionable buzzword to drop in conversations among wanna-be pubes "in the know". happened maybe a year or so ago.
asciilifeform: cuz i -- mercifully -- missed
mp_en_viaje: it may shock you to hear that i actually have a whole pile of whores beating the streets talking to dorks by the fucking pail just to keep me on top of things.
asciilifeform believes
mp_en_viaje: now those girls, they're the true marthyrs.
mp_en_viaje: a here we go, delivery!
asciilifeform: not wholly unrelatedly, asciilifeform's semi-automated archaeology birthed a logworthy output recently. seems like in '80s there was an outfit, 'algotronix', that xilinx bought an' killed , to bury the product in patent liquishit. had entirely homogeneous fpga , made from identical ~200-transistor cells ( with simple north-south-east-west tile interconnects, and 1 flipflop inside, configged via 16bit shift register per cell, connecte
asciilifeform: d in series. ) simple enuff to simulate deterministically (and calculate propagation delays on paper..)
asciilifeform: they even sold a card where you could plug in N of these, in tile pattern, and get whatever size fabric you like.
asciilifeform: whole spec fit on half of a4 page.
mp_en_viaje: o wow
mp_en_viaje: this pretty well fits the bill of what we've been talking about.
mp_en_viaje: now, if only could be cubed.
asciilifeform: it's entirely identical to what asciilifeform proposed in '15
asciilifeform: can cube, no particular reason wai not. or even hypercube.
asciilifeform: would simply need additional metal layer.
mp_en_viaje: hypercube's not particularly useful, as it's not a geometric shape. but even 2d, not bad.
asciilifeform: i would've added row/column lines , to cut down propagation delay when you bake internal bus, but it's moar or less exactly The Right Thing as-is
asciilifeform: ( orig author had only 2 long aluminum lines, die-wide, for 2 phase of clock )
mp_en_viaje: kinda the advantage of cube, elementarily shorter paths.
asciilifeform: they also had a variant with tree-like local structure, for same
asciilifeform: fractalesque shape.
mp_en_viaje: it's not that "oh, 27 cells fit better 3x3x3 than 5x5". it's that end to end in cube is >3 and in square >6
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: routing is the typical eater of sq.metrage in fpga
mp_en_viaje: aha.
asciilifeform: cuz most actual circuits consist of many small islands of mechanism, connected via narrow paths
mp_en_viaje: yes.
asciilifeform: theoretically, this kinda thing is chemistry-insensitive, could bake it on any process available, denser 1 will simply give you moar cells.
asciilifeform: i suspect if sovok had lived another 2-3 yrs, there's be ddr-baked examples of this in my parts box.
asciilifeform: as it is, no one (surprise!1111) bakes.
asciilifeform: ( before you laff -- sovok in fact did bake fpga. i have a sample. but it was mid-80s state of art, i.e. metallization-programmed )
asciilifeform: 1 interesting, imho, variation, would be to program the config regs ~optically~, a la 'cd-r'.
asciilifeform: rather than via the usual cascaded shift registers. get 4-5x the density, 'for phree'
asciilifeform: the config logic is ~80% of the sq.metrage, in an item like this.
mp_en_viaje: you know, like the early bitcoin asics.
asciilifeform: simplest physical realization of this, would be to position eprom cells along a spiral. then can program via ordinary uv laser in konsoomer 'dvd-r'.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: y'mean the faux-asics that were relabeled xilinxen lol
mp_en_viaje: in fact, a cd-shaped cd-writing cut processing item might work exceedingly well. have the buslines in the middle, basically you just add the discs on a rod.
asciilifeform: dunno if you could use an unmodified disk writer, given as the largest practical die is still smaller than the spindle hole. but same write head defo.
mp_en_viaje: sparse die.
asciilifeform: it aint even like you can't buy a 30cm piece of si crystal. errybody does already, they simply cut it into 1cm^2 squares. simply costs.
asciilifeform: generally you wouldn't want 'sparse die' tho, nobody cancelled speed of light etc
mp_en_viaje: 1um process means you get ... /me goes to look it up.... <<< 120 mm outer diam, so like pi r ^ 2 0.044 sqm, 4.4e10 nodes.
mp_en_viaje: per "disc"
asciilifeform: you'd want 'dvd' density
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, this is potentially non-si (or maybe sparsely crystallized si, or w/e)
asciilifeform: i.e. 450nm laser
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i was thinking you cut um. that's 2x.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i dun presently know of an economical non-si substrate. was thinking strictly in the bounds of current commercial processes.
mp_en_viaje: consider a sheet of gold upon which small si crystals are found, say.
asciilifeform: ( current/historical. thing'd work just as well in 1970s 4um as in today's 8nm etc )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: substrate gotta be a dopable insulator
mp_en_viaje: the thing with this (wholly futuristic talk) process would be that even if 1/3 of your cells work, whatever.
asciilifeform: saphire worx, diamond worx, si worx (and currently cheapest)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: on anyffing at all, you get the 'only n % gotta work'
asciilifeform: you map'em out, like 'bad blocks' on '80s hdd
mp_en_viaje: if you could produce blanks that i can cut with a cd-writer into as much as few hundred cell "fpgas"...
asciilifeform: this'd have the obv. down side, that your prop. delays are not deterministic. but would be cheap.
mp_en_viaje: aha.
asciilifeform: but indeed, homogeneous matrix of cells buys you 'hdd-like' item, where it is not necessary for whole thing to work
asciilifeform: in order to be of use
asciilifeform: ( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )
asciilifeform: the 'nanometer' densities have piss-poor yield, and this is how it is papered over.
mp_en_viaje: aha.
asciilifeform: xilinx incidentally has already confessed to resorting to 'cubism'/layered dies, to meet their claimed cell counts.
asciilifeform: but i was thinking moar along the lines of the simplest device that'd be of practical use, rather than 'futurisms'.
asciilifeform: the '80s-style 2d tile already gives you, e.g., simple means to bake arbitrarily-wide alu. for instance.
mp_en_viaje: i guess so. aaanyways. maybe one day.
asciilifeform: i expect we'll want to simulate it, before anyone thinks of baking.
mp_en_viaje: well, did you simulate xraying before doing it ? :D
asciilifeform: unlike the idjit heterogeneous fpga sold today, this item'd be a snap to simulate.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: as a matter of fact i did. how do you suppose i knew what beam cone to use, lol
mp_en_viaje: :p
asciilifeform: ( granted it's a 10min chalkboard 'newtonian' 'sim' )
asciilifeform: simple enuff tech, that it actually begins to seem 'boring', which makes it auto-interesting to asciilifeform ..
PeterL: << you might not know if you avoid places they put ads (tv), but in their recent ads McD has been talking up their beef
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 16:32 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, moreover, mcdonalds claims meat in "food" series.
asciilifeform: PeterL: believe or not , i dun think i've seen a mcd ad since i stopped riding the trains erryday
asciilifeform: for all i know, they serve up penguin flippers nao
PeterL: I don't think you are suffering from missing them
asciilifeform prolly to nobody's great surprise, dun have a tv , or at least not the usual kind with tuner
asciilifeform: if 1 day they start broadcasting sumthing interesting, e.g. beheadings , i suppose i can run perl script on that sdr box and get 'tv' .
BingoBoingo: Down here they broadcast Maduro from time to time
feedbot: << Qntra -- Heroic Roomba Occupies Numerous Oregon "Law Enforcement" Man Hours In Standoff
asciilifeform: << thinking about this further, prolly Right Thing would be a hybrid where there's a repeating block of e.g. 32x32x32 cells connected in 'cube' (this, or even larger, would still fit on physically 2d die) arranged in n x m matrix
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 16:59 mp_en_viaje: kinda the advantage of cube, elementarily shorter paths.
asciilifeform: idea being, that a typical subcircuit would fit inside 1 such cube .
asciilifeform: depending on how many metal layers you have , could dispense entirely with 'subcubes' and give whole thing 'flattened cube' topology.
asciilifeform: tho this might make prop.delay calculation slightly trickier. possibly what you'd want instead is to connect only the 4 'compass' faces of 'subcube' to adjacent units.
asciilifeform bbl:tea
feedbot: << Qntra -- EU Bureaucrats Set New October 31st Brexit Date Is Macron The Sovereign Now?

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