Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2018-11-03 | 2018-11-05 →
hanbot: << not even so much interest, i was more or less drafted. i'm happy to do whatever i can, but i see multiple issues here; i don't in any case want to take your seat, and honestly i don't think "outreach" is a splinter of the foundation's operation, fit for a single person. afaik it's the core of what the thing was supposed to do, and the core of its failure to date, and given a potentially unbounded budge
a111: Logged on 2018-10-30 02:26 mod6: hanbot: Still have interest in an offical Co-Chair seat for the Foundation?
hanbot: t and a by now insanely oversaturated market, i can't imagine anything less than hundreds of hours/week is going to save it. i don't have the hours to make it my sole concern, but i do have some to help out. i think it'd be a shame to kinda decoupage some tasks here and there to a floundering ship. as much as i'd like to see it sail, seems obvious to me that here and there won't cut it at all.
mod6: jurov: lobbes has it, I think an auction is the way to go here.
mod6: hanbot: Thanks for your thoughful response.
mircea_popescu: it's certainly true my hope lo so many years ago was that the foundation will provide the basic material (people, expertise, history, and so on) upon which to construct these days a republican diplomatic service ; rather than a library.
deedbot: << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/28/2018
jurov: I don't get why I should run the auction and not mod6 but let's try
jurov: !Xsell 0.33bn 120 2k wFF
auctionbot: Sell order # 1005 created by jurov: 2k wFF Opening: 0.33bn ecu Ending: 2018-11-08 20:13:41.320151 UTC (119 hours)
deedbot: << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 6: Packing and Unpacking RSA
mircea_popescu: truth be told it'd work equally well either way, but i dunno, they really really wanna be bidding fror some reason.
Mocky: mircea_popescu, I've spent the day going over and cleaning up my outstanding notes to date. I have 6 blog posts that will be dropping the last of which is my evaluation of where I'm currently at with this thing.
mircea_popescu: alright. all these today ?
Mocky: yes
mircea_popescu shall read.
deedbot: << - Lazy Workers
mircea_popescu: lmao, that's rich, work slowdown the factory bosses don't even fucking notice.
mircea_popescu: Mocky did i do teh commenting acceptably nao ?
mircea_popescu: (do you have a knob so i don't have to be moderated every single time ? cuz that's a major chill factor)
Mocky: I don't have moderate per se. I have a manual process where by if i type in "" i see if there are new comments to manually copy paste into the document
Mocky ducks
Mocky: hey! i didn't want to wasted time implementing a big comment thing when i get 1 comment per month
ben_vulpes: not much to report, still assembling personal workstation
mircea_popescu: Mocky you know all these exist as mp-wp already!
mircea_popescu: reimplementing the java over there
ben_vulpes: >
a111: Logged on 2018-10-22 20:11 Mocky: i can't stomach php, which probably sounds rich coming from hardcore java dude. my www is static files and one old school cgi to python for comments
mircea_popescu: that's fine for as long as it works lol
ben_vulpes: Mocky: there's not much stomaching involved with operating an mp-wp. it's a pretty feature-complete blog; if you really want a custom template you can buy one.
mircea_popescu: actually i bet you the fellow would love nothing more than to do a template design for hire.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-02 01:36 billymg: managed to press vtools and use vdiff to create a patch of the css tweaks for the "default" theme included in mp-wp
deedbot: << - Five Star Flop
mircea_popescu: Mocky why does <em> become <b> ? :D
mircea_popescu: and hjow do i link to the comment specifically ?
Mocky: not supported yet
mircea_popescu: "they sit around during the late morning and early afternoons having coffee and sweets." << you know i do this shit too ? must be the middle easterner in us.
mircea_popescu: naramnzi water and shisha, laze about post brunch... very levantine i guess.
Mocky: i guess so
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 13:38 deedbot: << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 6: Packing and Unpacking RSA
mircea_popescu: Mocky "who does has been doing"
Mocky: ah, thx
diana_coman: asciilifeform, where/which?
diana_coman: the keys in the testing?
diana_coman: afaik *those* are the only ones, let me know if there is anything else
diana_coman: asciilifeform> << kilometre-wide lines, wai! -> because RSA keys are kilometre-wide!
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 13:38 deedbot: << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 6: Packing and Unpacking RSA
asciilifeform: what'd be wrong with "line1" & "line2" ..... & "lineN"
diana_coman: the fact that I have to manually and arbitrarily split strings that in fact are of any use only un-splitted
diana_coman: onth I suppose that the 80cols rule either is or isn't, so it should apply even to strings that make no sense split, a bit of cutting to fit the bed style
diana_coman will think on this a bit more
asciilifeform strong proponent of 80col-ism, even builds with gnat flag that makes >80 an eggog
diana_coman: Mocky, "on while goose chases" - wild, I suppose
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I know but I still don't fully buy it, it seems
Mocky: oh, thank you
diana_coman: it still seems at best silly to manually split strings that one would than have to merge if they want to use as such somewhere else
deedbot: << - Qatar Financial Center
deedbot: << - Zombies Gamers and Lost Souls
deedbot: << - insh Allah
ben_vulpes: and workstation back online. gentoo happily boots from its original sata port on the motherboard, but hangs at "loading the kernel" when that drive is plugged into any other other sata port.
ben_vulpes: will be making new contacts in the next month to find a shared cab for racking the foundation machine i lugged across the continent
diana_coman: Mocky, hm, I thought it was "trust Allah but tie camel", apparently they lost the 2nd part?
Mocky: more like trust Allah and don't be the faithless one studying knots
diana_coman: sounds more like a study in "how unearned wealth can screw you up" basically
Mocky: lol
BingoBoingo at some point going to have to dive into reducing mysql ram usage on rockchip
deedbot: << - Qatar: 25 Day Report
Mocky: ^ Ok this is my last post of the night. Going to sleep now
mod6: jurov: Ok, that's probably a better way : We'll start the auction, and you can bid on it. We'll do this going forward.
deedbot: << The Tar Pit - Bucharest, part zwei: Herstru, Cotroceni
mod6: !Qhelp
mod6: lobbes: do you have a list of commands for auctionbot somewhere?
mod6: !Xhelp
mod6: lobbes: nevermind
mod6: !Xbuy .311bn 100 2k wFF
auctionbot: Buy order # 1006 created by mod6: 2k wFF Opening: .311bn ecu Ending: 2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 UTC (99 hours)
mod6: jurov: go ahead and Xcancel your auction #1005, and plz to bid on mine (#1006)
mod6: Thanks!
mod6: ben_vulpes: cool, thanks.
asciilifeform: << iirc ( really calls for experimental test ) when you foo : String := "bar" & "baz" ; at compile time it glues'em , and does not drag in secondarystackism, fwiw
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 18:32 diana_coman: it still seems at best silly to manually split strings that one would than have to merge if they want to use as such somewhere else
asciilifeform: worx same as the multiline notation in c
asciilifeform: i hate to bring back ancient thread re 'how many columns in terminal', but you ~must~ have a finite width, or cannot write even basic thing like vtron without idjit heapism. and i'm heavily biased to 'make'em 80' , that's how wide my terminal and printers are.
asciilifeform: nobody's terminal, afaik, is 980 wide.
asciilifeform: i'm a little surprised the vtron even swallowed it.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman imo such items belong in a config file then. though he prolly wants the ~config~ file to also be "human readable" by which he means hard-paged at 80 cols like for idiots. because there's no such thing as a terminal, nor user settings, and i gotta format my text in a way that's aware of his dumb terminal. and he thinks this acceptable, somehow, that at the time i write i must bear in mind how he'll later read.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 21:34 deedbot: << - Qatar: 25 Day Report
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 22:38 mircea_popescu: Mocky so i guess next step is make an appointment with their minister of technology, industry, or whatever the fuck, explain to the secretarial overseer you end up seeing that the republic is in principle willing to do some tech transfer help them become a real country, exchange confused nods and handshakes and set the bozo bit on the ball of faux carpeting yarn pretending to be a country ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wide is your terminal ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform srsly now, 80cols is a terminal setting. text may not have line breaks for any reason other than new paragraph.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as wide as i fucking feel like.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu like to horizontal-scroll ?
asciilifeform: or he actually has one of those road-sign shaped displays, or which
asciilifeform: ( i actually use these. but they're turned on their side, so i can put moar-proggy into'em, rather than longer-line )
mircea_popescu: i feel about "this string has spurious /n inserted in random places" about the same way you feel about FG getting random control bits pissed into the stream by "helpful" wrappers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: keep in mind that it ain't 'text', tho, it's a proggy, the line is a semantic unit
mircea_popescu: IF you can't configure your termina, either get a better one or understand you're at fault for your own pain.
asciilifeform: and to write e.g. vtron, you gotta pick a max length in advance
mircea_popescu: the line as a semantic unit is as long as it fucking is, and the terminal deals with it.
mircea_popescu: it dun ask the author to deal with it for him.
mircea_popescu: and i know no reason vtron must have "max line length picked in advance" either.
asciilifeform: it will, unless you use heapistic diff
mircea_popescu: in any case i don't want control bits spuriously pissed into the stream. what next, <em> ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a legacy definition of "text" type in eulora comms protocol specifically for this conversation.
mircea_popescu: "first section is 1 byte long, encodes length of 2nd section ; 2nd section encodes length of payload".
asciilifeform: line breaks to fit on civilized terminals & printers aint spurious. i suspect that we're doomed to disagree.
asciilifeform: i dun have infinitely-sized chairs at my house either, even though 'arse can be any width!11'
asciilifeform: nor barn doors
mircea_popescu: hey. i won't mandate her she write long lines, if she manages in 80 cols all the better. but i will mandate she dun do " & " bullshit.
mircea_popescu: so not only we agree to disagree -- but there's gonna be long lines in there cuz that's how long a line is.
asciilifeform: they're already in, e.g., trb. but was thinking, perhaps folx will eventually stop, cuz it's a headache and to fix it is not in any sense expensive imho.
asciilifeform: ( there's 200+ col. lines in trb )
mircea_popescu: "stop" means to take "text" and turn it into "te<controlchars>xt" and that's so fucking stupid...
mircea_popescu: srsly now, move on to an adult terminal that can flow the semantic unit for your needs.
asciilifeform: ideally sexprs. but maybe that's next decade.
mircea_popescu: and if emacs can't do this, emacs is plain and unadulterated garbage is all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i use printers, and aint about to stop, it's part of my code-eating workflow.
mircea_popescu: so printers can't flow now ?
asciilifeform: and 'fits in head' demands fit-in-page-preserving-indentation.
mircea_popescu: my fucking 24 dot matrix tractor unit could flow. what.
asciilifeform: preserving indentation !
mircea_popescu: sounds like you're in the market for a printer driver that doesn't suck.
asciilifeform: printer driver dun do this.
asciilifeform: not even my hand-sewn pretty printing liquishit, does this.
asciilifeform: it's not doable without a transformer that's aware of the syntax. and doing it will destroy ability to refer to orig author's lines by number in conversation.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 23:45 phf: in a proper program 80 col is an indicator of s/n, density and all kinds of lateral properties, that can be communicated between professionals, because you can know ahead of time, what you're dealing with by shape, and have a rough estimate for the token count
mircea_popescu: i don't see it'd destroy any such thing.
asciilifeform: standard line len makes it possible to meaningfully discuss loc, among other things.
mircea_popescu: but yes, i ask your terminal be aware of the syntax. it must be. because the alternative is having me be aware of your terminal -- and that ain't occurring.
mircea_popescu: standard line length may not be shorter than common lines. which among other things will be rsa keys. so it'll be, willy nily, over 80.
asciilifeform: mechanically-reflowed proggy suxx to read, i can tell that mircea_popescu spends ~0 time actually reading ( as in, go offline for whole day to read 1 proggy ) coad.
mircea_popescu: there can be such a thing as a standard length, yes. but apparently it'll be 512 bytes+
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: diana_coman's are already 900+
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the fact all your terminals suck isn't an argument in this convo.
mircea_popescu: fix them!
mircea_popescu: it is not possible to fix the wrong end of this funnel.
asciilifeform: say what's 'fix' then ? 1024 col display ?
hanbot: why not just display it in 2pt and get a monocle, yeesh
mircea_popescu: reflow you like ; or else wider lines ; or anything that works for you.
asciilifeform: hanbot: apparently this is mircea_popescu's prescribed answer
asciilifeform: reflow sucks.
mircea_popescu: basically, any time you go "this string should contain control characters for my convenience" you are living in a state of sin, and should remedy.
asciilifeform: ideally proggy would be distributed as a ast in sexpr, and we wouldn't have 'tabs & spaces' thread. but we aint there yet.
mircea_popescu: but the only way to ever get there is if we run out of town this "let's mix data and markup" approach.
mircea_popescu fucking hates hard line ends omfg.
asciilifeform: this is new
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu barfed at my 'let's forbid semantically meaningful newlines in vtronics' item, earlier.
asciilifeform: ( recall, 'genetics'-style diff, that refers to actual byte positions )
mircea_popescu: im sure i mentioned my script to s'\n\n%\r'g | s'\n% 'g | s'\r%\n'g many times before
asciilifeform: lol i have this on by boxes, it goes by 'dos2unix' , standard util neh
mircea_popescu: it just gets rid of "80 col" or otherwise "preformatted" text in favour of line=paragraph sanity.
mircea_popescu: fucking "lines". jesus.
asciilifeform: then 'loc' is meaningless metric.
mircea_popescu: always was.
mircea_popescu: <deedbot> << lobbesblog - Bulletin on auctionbot fees << cool.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'll admit that curious why you ended up flipping on earlier
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 03:07 mircea_popescu: so to have closure, i suppose should read "80 cols plox what is this"
asciilifeform: ( i still see it as 'railroad gauge' , gonna publish 80cols till the day i die )
BingoBoingo: ATTN: will be offline for at least 24 hours until I can free up some time to force the database to fit into the available RAM
asciilifeform had the mysql manual open , since BingoBoingo 1st mentioned subj, and somewhat to my surprise found that the thing dun seem to have a max mem knob !
BingoBoingo: No, there isn't. There are knobs that influence the range of memory footprints mysql will sit in, and none of them appear to be able to be turned meaningfully down on a living database.
asciilifeform: proggies written by people who see machine resource as bottomless well, are infuriating .
asciilifeform: << nao gotta ask, why didja transport it in pieces ?!
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 17:49 ben_vulpes: not much to report, still assembling personal workstation
asciilifeform at one time had a 100kg liquid-cooled horror, did not transport in pieces, simply attached wheelbarrow wheels to it...
asciilifeform: << pretty interesting, and suggests 1 interesting question on top of it : how many of those 'exotic' linux ports ( e.g. s390 ) ~actually work~ today ?
a111: Logged on 2018-11-03 23:23 bvt: hello. i wrote a summary for linux system call investigation
asciilifeform: i've built, fwiw, for mips ( 32 an' 64 -wide ), for arm (ditto), even for 'microblaze' ( spoiler: not an actual iron, but xilinx's oddball 'demo cpu', exists nowhere else but 'virtex' demo boards, of which i have an embarrassingly tall pile ) -- but i ain't ever built for s390, or 68k ...
asciilifeform: at some point i'ma get around to trimming the kernel. how many of these do we actually want ?
asciilifeform: ( does anybody even ~have~ a s390, or where to steal one ?? )
asciilifeform: for that matter, errybody luvvs m68k, but where might one actually get one with enuff ram to fit the current kernel.
asciilifeform: who the fuck maintains that branch, i want to know, and on what !
asciilifeform: ( 68k has, what, 24MB ? max addr space. to let 'modern' kernel eat 12-20 of these, is imho pretty 'rich' )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i seem to recall you had one ? at some point
asciilifeform: what % of ram kernel ate ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I never tried the linux on it
asciilifeform: was what, 'amiga' ?
BingoBoingo: OpenBSD 3.?
asciilifeform: iirc even theo gave up on shoehorning his kernel into ancient archs.
BingoBoingo: 3.? is when theo gave up on 68k
asciilifeform: i think the smallest unixlike box i currently have, is a pic32 (mips, little endian) , and it's running... sysv
asciilifeform: ( byproduct of early cardanoism )
billymg: << yup. Mocky: if this ever becomes a need for you, i'd be more than happy to help
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 18:03 mircea_popescu: actually i bet you the fellow would love nothing more than to do a template design for hire.
billymg: and at this point i'm just trying to build my reputation so wouldn't be looking for anything beyond a fair rating
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what flipped is that i'm not about to build magic numbers into the code process.
mircea_popescu: that can read "80 cols plox what is this" all it wants, it runs into "this is a key, what are you going to do about it, use 80 cols keys" ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i'm willing to bet there's something grossly misconfigured ; item doesn't have memory issues normally.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was on the defaults. 2 GB rockchip and while not a trilema sized blog, bigger than most on mp-wp
mircea_popescu: << ~none. let the heroes participate by bringing their obscura into the fold.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-04 23:55 asciilifeform: at some point i'ma get around to trimming the kernel. how many of these do we actually want ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ps aux | grep mysqld says what ?
mircea_popescu: (5th column, the virtual memory allocated, is the point of interest)
BingoBoingo: 1261 0.0 0.0 2248 456 pts/0 S+ 01:30 0:00 grep --colour=auto mysqld
mircea_popescu: why do you think ram is the problem then ?!
BingoBoingo: I can't keep it alive
mircea_popescu: anyway, you might find helpful (run AFTER you've read it and satisfied self it's not malicious).
BingoBoingo: The situation is it will have to wait until after Pizarro statement.
mircea_popescu: at your leisure.
BingoBoingo: I keep getting distracted by not quite fixes that let the thing show a dashboard for one page load, as much as I would like it to be top of my list it can't today
BingoBoingo: until then I can't even blog my recent conversion to beach running
asciilifeform: << is what i was thinking. and i'm going for even moar radical snippetysnip, i.e. of ALL iron that nobody in l1 has / can be arsed to muster, not simply cpu archs.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-05 01:26 mircea_popescu: << ~none. let the heroes participate by bringing their obscura into the fold.
asciilifeform: i dun have e.g. 'hauppauge tv card' and dun intend to dig in junkyard for one just to test driver.
asciilifeform: anybody who finds that he cannot live without one, is welcome to backport the kernelade for it with ~own~ hands, and present signed vpatch.
asciilifeform: ditto s390, though if somebody insists on ibm dinosaur in his tmsr workflow i'ma be curious re wtf,wai
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would like to get sense of what is thought 'obscura' tho, my obscura may or may not be trinque's obscura, etc.
asciilifeform: optimally , by the time the scissors actually come out, there'll be concretes in the l0gz, of the form of 'hands off my $scsicard, motherfuckers'
mircea_popescu: odds are we'll find out in the shape of error reports.
asciilifeform: << meanwhile in vintage lulz. d00d built wankatron with spoon in arse , plugged into mains , with neon lamp to reduce 220v , or so he thought.. it shorted.
mircea_popescu: "I’ve never before had coffee that good. It actually hurts now to drink the instant coffee I have back at my room." << non-us coffee apparently is great generally.
mircea_popescu: <<< top fucking keks. really, arab don't keep appointment ?! this is some next level shit, never heard of it b4.
mircea_popescu: "I guess you could say they identify as bikers." bwajuaja ok, this is entertaining lol
Mocky: good morning mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: heya mockster
mircea_popescu: ajahjaha check it out, "haymasfuturo" qatar version! jesus these people.
Mocky: re bikers, some of these guys seem so happy to just *have* the bike. i have neighbor who fires his up every 3rd day and twists the throttle for 5 minutes while it sits. but maybe it's to scare all the cats away
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