ave1: diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/, it seems that wordpress filtered out the <code> tags, could you edit / fix these (I should have used pre probably)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 17:08 asciilifeform: draws 400mW in reflector mode (~1/5 of what colour panel of that weight class eats) .
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ahaha, ever been in a military coup before ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860710 << standard algo, guaranteed to finish in at most n steps.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:34 asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:36 phf: asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860728 << afaik the agremeent on that was "rewrite dev/random and dev/urandom to be ~ diana_coman 's fg wrappers.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:59 phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 23:30 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860619 << Call recording is not needed, imho.
ave1: the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
mircea_popescu: is the idea that the pool would; run out ?
mircea_popescu: nice crc32 fuxing btw.
ave1: no, that you have multiple concurrent applications all reading from the tty at the same time. Some kind of intermediate is needed to divide the bytes.
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. you have one (kernel) reading from tty putting it into /dev/?random ; and however many apps reading from there as now.
mircea_popescu: this creates a flow issue ?
ave1: now, I'll have to check
mircea_popescu: i'm naively assuming it wouldn't, but in fairness haven't actually looked into the gnarl.
mircea_popescu: (but, importantly, /dev/random === /dev/urandom is a fundamental ideological patch. fuck the fucking idiocy!)
mircea_popescu: there shall be ONE random. and if there isn't one, throw the shirt iron out with the garbage. and if there's "two", throw the "engineer" responsible out with the garbage.
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
diana_coman: ave1, why not add it as a .vpatch on the eucrypt tree?
diana_coman: ave1, at any rate, <pre> tags added, looks good
diana_coman: if you make it a .vpatch, I'll sign it
ave1: well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
ave1: I'll make it a vpatch later today...
diana_coman: well yes, but where should reference code be?
diana_coman: there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
ave1: as for urandom, whenever I search for it I end up revisiting this one http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-15#1614105. It seems both are unusable.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-15 18:59 asciilifeform: in related lulz/disinfo, http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/
diana_coman: keeping it separate certainly makes sense (so that it's not a mandatory piece in there) but if it's code it's still basically under V that it belongs
ave1: diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
diana_coman: nice, thanks!
diana_coman: typo in manifest "emplementation" -> implementation ; but one can live with that
diana_coman: you might want perhaps to add a call + check to it in the tests too?
ave1: diana_coman, I'll add my test and fix the typo and regrind
diana_coman: sounds good
ave1: diana_coman, updated!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 08:25 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860762 << that was the contemplated stat(), yes. the sad is that idjit unix does not have a general-purpose 'this block of program is atomic' primitive, and so other cpu can fuck you b/w the stat() and open() call ( tho phf did find a open() flag that supposedly atomicises )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 08:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860773 << sane unixes will ~lock~ it, so errybody but 1 starves. insane ones will feed same randomola to multiple threads..
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 08:40 mircea_popescu: this creates a flow issue ?
asciilifeform: neither is what we'd want, imho
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 09:00 mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
asciilifeform: reading a legit /dev/random ( or FG, or any other device ) is a ~blocking~ op, potentially returns in a year if you're entropy-poor , or even rich but 9000 processes want it
asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
asciilifeform: but if i'm overwriting a 8TB disk prior to taking it to crematorium, i'd rather urandom, i dun presently have a 200M/sec rng
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 11:47 ave1: diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
asciilifeform: ( the table variant is elementarily not constant time on pc )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860785 << waitasec, we have a non-'bit' keccak somewhere ? i.e. one that doesn't require buffers to be blown up 8x , as in http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum#L76 ? i'd like this... ( and i suspect so would errybody )
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 09:41 diana_coman: there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
diana_coman: ave1, thank you, I'll look through it in more detail a bit later today
ave1: the div variant could be made to be constant time using the ffa primitives but currently is not.
ave1: div == division
asciilifeform: ave1: you dun need ffa for this, yer dividing single words by single word
ave1: asciilifeform, well bits are being checked to be able to determine if xor div is needed
ave1: and for the table lookup, it's the the table access part that's not constant time? (lookup(0) might take different time than loop(255))?
asciilifeform: ave1: use the method illustrated in w_mux, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis#L870
asciilifeform: ave1: tables on pc are unconstanttime, on acct of cache
asciilifeform: ( even very small table can end up crossing page boundary )
asciilifeform: anyway i dun think this is critical for any current application. but ideally would like to be able to take a checksum without leaking what-of
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 13:08 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
ave1: asciilifeform, I was looking for mux just now in ffa just now and I came by the add_gated which uses a different method,.
ave1: which I did not remember
asciilifeform: ave1: well it's from a later chapter
ave1: I know, it was more a description of how my memory was playing tricks on me
ave1: I did not remember the name "mux", but did remember the method, and I was sure it would be needed in add, but then it was not there. Next in mul, again not there then in modexp...
asciilifeform: ave1: in the moar expensive muxable ops, i 'rolled in' the muxing
asciilifeform: ( again for reasonable speed on pc, where 'data locality' can mean 10-20x speed diff )
asciilifeform: i.e. if yer walking an array, best do errything yer gonna do to an element once, before going to next -- rather than walking it >1 time
asciilifeform: ave1: 'if Bit31Set then R := R or Bit31; end if;' << is elementarily unnecessary, think about it
asciilifeform: if it aint set, the op does nuffin
asciilifeform: ave1: apply same fact in the 'if BitSet then A := A or Bit1; end if;' thing
asciilifeform: ave1: and for the 'A := A xor D' , use a mux. and yer done.
asciilifeform: nomoar if's.
ave1: asciilifeform, Bit31 is in A, it needs to be shifted in on R
asciilifeform: ave1: ~rotate~ A instead of shifting, then and with 1, then it'll be in the correct place
asciilifeform: i illustrated this in ffa
asciilifeform: i was gonna post an edited ver of ave1's thing, but thought he might enjoy doing with own hands
ave1: ouch, but I hate thinking
asciilifeform: ( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
ave1: without the if; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AFgkC/?raw=true. This destroys A, rotate does not.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, 'for I in Integer range S'First .. S'First + 3 loop' is problem, what if yer string has <4 chars
ave1: 4 characters are always appended
ave1: btw I had an implementation that did not do this appending, but then the whole body becomes more complex
ave1: if a message is 1 byte, of the 4 bytes to append, 3 will have to be inverted (initial operation on register)
ave1: and this then creeps into the loop
asciilifeform: ^ can prolly simplify further
asciilifeform: nao lemme see yours..
ave1: is same
asciilifeform: loox like.
ave1: also at same time pasted
asciilifeform: ( there's no point to having the 'Bit1' constant tho )
asciilifeform: anyway i suspect it makes sense to ave1 , he came up with the correct answ
asciilifeform: ( possibly the algebra can be shortened tho )
asciilifeform: wasn't so painful, was it.
ave1: the painfull part was at the start when I did not know that crc used a reversed bit order and did not understand that the initial register has to be xored with the message (and not used as a kind of prepend)
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860766 << Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. Would be a nice to have, just in case someone gets out-of-pocket.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 08:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
mod6: asciilifeform: it was $7/mo extra for the call recording?
asciilifeform: mod6: aha
asciilifeform: mod6: we have coupla month worth of 'phree' credit tho
asciilifeform: so if you like i can leave it on for a spell
mod6: Ok, that's fine. Let's see what kinda calls we get in those two months. And then we'll go from there. $7 isn't too bad at all, anyway.
asciilifeform: btw mod6 , i haven't tested the pnoje thing yet, why dontcha try it while i go to tea
mod6: Aight, "The customer you have dialed is not avaliable at this time. Good-bye."
ave1: btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 08:37 ave1: the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Thank you very much
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This would be my first if it happens. My read is there's still time for National Party to get their shit together for the impending election. They have a celebrity MUGA candidate officially announcing in a few weeks.
BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
asciilifeform: mod6: i dun see any calls in the log. gonna write to the vendor shortly.
asciilifeform: mod6: did it go to eggog immediately or long-tone for a while ?
BingoBoingo: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/blancos-reciben-con-el-cuchillo-entre-dientes-al-millonario-sartori--20181011173848 << Tell me if you have seen this play before anywhere
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860876 << how do you know you aint feeding overlapping rngola to the parallel processes ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 15:01 ave1: btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lulz potential in either case!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: For sure
mircea_popescu: in other MCGA, yest spent lunch at table with three girls, at upscale italian place where there were three girls total. on the left, tableful of dudes. on the right, tableful of dudes. nobody said as much as zip, though i was openly playing with tits over cacciucco.
mircea_popescu: mace kucks grate agane!
BingoBoingo: !b 4
mod6: asciilifeform: it was straight to eggog
mod6: i'll try again
mod6: Ok cool, it works. I think my problem is that i dialed a "1" in front of the entire number.
mod6: 833-867-7282 << this is how you dial it from usg phone
mircea_popescu: o hey, tested ? nice!
mircea_popescu: fancy that, mod6 , tbf now has 0800 number.
mod6: Heheh, up, surpised nicole
mircea_popescu: afaik none of the other various pretenders managed as much.
mod6: yeah, pretty neat
mircea_popescu: and looking back, wasn't that much trouble at all. just needed to be done. 20 bux, whassat.
mod6: yeah, that's fine. and the call quality was good -- totally clear.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaactually had to fight with vendor ~daily for ~week
asciilifeform: and make acct 2nd time, and various liquishit paperworx
mircea_popescu: why the fuck ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cuz promised 'next day' and turned out ~week, and place runs on meat/monkeys rather than (as implied) comp
mircea_popescu: wait, wait. there's a chick with ye olde metal probes making contacts on the board ?
mircea_popescu: motherfucker get pics, you have any idea how oldschool cool this is getting to be ?
mod6: Ethel on the switchboards.
mircea_popescu: we're putting it in the tmsr music video.
asciilifeform: possibly not quite this sad, but there apparently was d00ds filling out spreadshits by hand
mircea_popescu: the us is the premiere technology and things in the werld!
asciilifeform: i suspect it's a dns-style racket, they purchase the #s somewhere & resell
asciilifeform: subj is far from my daily doings so i have presently nfi just where they get'em
mircea_popescu: if the pricepoint's any indication... and the pricepoint always is the first and foremost indication.
mircea_popescu: "this salami costs as much as that cheese, ERGO THIS SALAMI IS THAT CHEESE". and this phone thing dns, and so on.
asciilifeform: it's an aol-style 'cheap but then let'em add the bells & whistles and then they'll pay' sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: how much did it end up ?
asciilifeform: 18bux upfront; 180.18 'phree credit' remaining
mod6: Nice, when you run out, just invoice the Foundation via jurov plz.
mircea_popescu: mod6 ah you picking this up ?
asciilifeform: i.e. by my reckoning, 9 months of service if nobody calls, and fewer if sumbody does
mod6: I think it's fine that the Foundation pays for it's toll-free number, Sure. Objections?
asciilifeform: ( iirc 5c/min )
mircea_popescu: aite. i was gonna pay myself, but see no problem with tbf picking it up either. all yours.
mod6: Sounds good.
asciilifeform: i'ma invoice mod6 then as soon as it actually costs sumthing nontrivial, or erry 6mo, whichever comes 1st
mod6: Cool, but srsly, invoice jurov, he pays 'em.
mircea_popescu: the conversations rich people have...
asciilifeform: btw theres a (apparently phree) feature where it can go to diff receivers at different times of day
mircea_popescu: you niggas white or what.
asciilifeform: so if sumbody wants to be telephonist...
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/five-eyes-spy-cartel-announces-counter-china-operations/ << Qntra - Five Eyes Spy Cartel Announces Counter China Operations
mod6: asciilifeform: ahh good to know.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nice lol.
mod6: Is there a feature where it'll ring to person 1, and if person 1 does not answer, it'll roll to a different number?
asciilifeform: mod6: indeed there is
mod6: Ah, that's pretty handy too.
asciilifeform: you can have theoretically unlimited # of these
mircea_popescu: this might be useful, but i'm not putting a 2nd slavegirl on this galley.
asciilifeform: anybody who wants to be in this list, plox to gpg #.
asciilifeform: otherwise it'll be just the one mircea_popescu supplied.
mircea_popescu: actually... ideally prolly euro zone anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: keep in mind that 8xx only work from usa
mircea_popescu: though, logically, if we care enough about permanence rather than existence, more logical to also make euro free number, and add euro located respondent, and then criss-cross these on 2nd pass.
mircea_popescu: but imo by now this is getting overengineered. let's revisit it if/when becomes importanrt.
asciilifeform: currently i've nfi how to make eu phree pnojes, would have to look into it if it becomes interesting
mircea_popescu: it's a thing, just like us, but anyway. next year.
asciilifeform: afaik avoxi dun do euro, would need a 2nd vendor.
mod6: I agree, let's just visit this when we have the problem.
mircea_popescu: next years in dusseldorf.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860782 << good to have both ends, for reason alf pointed out (embedded systems might not afford the kbs)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 09:40 ave1: well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu for supplying the idea and the picker-up
mircea_popescu: ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
mircea_popescu: this way we also get to explore that fabled tree resolution stuff in v.
asciilifeform: ^ The Right Thing imho
asciilifeform: ( recall #ifdefism thread )
mircea_popescu: in a word, ave1 : don't be shy. there's a time to be shy, but when they bring out the playdo's not that time. shove it up shirts, see what happens.
asciilifeform: mod6: i recommend to put the #, "1-833-TMSRBTC" , on tbf www
mircea_popescu: (kindergarten mp once famously convinced smitten kitten to sit put for playdo shoving up nostrils "to see what happens". emergency room visit happened, and very sad & contrite mp.)
mod6: I can do that -- the "1" in front didn't work for me tho!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why 1 ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally these dun work w/out the prefix
asciilifeform: but apparently mod6's telco is opposite, so i have nfi
mircea_popescu: you tested yourself ?
asciilifeform: notyet, but why not!
mircea_popescu: she'll be pleased to hear from you :)
mod6: btw... jurov and I are working on relocating the bitcoin.foundation website to the foundation's server in Pizarro. We're gonna get it set up, and test before we announce a cut-over date. Smooth transition, ftw.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> she'll be pleased to hear from you :) << Or give him an earful about logs to summarize
mircea_popescu: alf be like "hello ? oh, is this nicole ? JUST CALLED TO TELL YOU YOUR PHONE ANSWERING SUCKS! i mean... i was expecting it to improve but it turns out NOT"
asciilifeform: she was bit confused.
asciilifeform: worked with 1-833.
mod6: your phone is tapped
mircea_popescu: so wait, wait. these idiots managed to create dialing ambiguity ?!
asciilifeform: i dun pnoje much these days, nfi
mircea_popescu: as in, we don't now know if it's 1833 or 833 ?!
BingoBoingo: Nah, dialing ambiguity is a US telecom thing
asciilifeform: 1 is usa pnoje prefix
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is wrong with that country.
mircea_popescu: mod6 write it as " 833 TMSR BTC"
mod6: i expected the "1" to work, however, maybe it's just a "smrt phone" thing
mod6: mircea_popescu: got it.
asciilifeform: btw there's another pheature, also apparently 0cost, that lets you make calls ~from~ it
asciilifeform: but i did not plug it in, couldn't think of why to do presently
asciilifeform: oh hey
mod6: Any changes?
mircea_popescu: no dashes
mod6: Ok, sec...
mod6: Ok gone
asciilifeform: can also nix the space b/w tmsr and btc
mircea_popescu: imo looks pretty cool.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah.
asciilifeform: thing has voice mail too, but i assumed receiver has own and didn't plug it in
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860796 << i meant strictly as "oh, can't use, it's wrong proportion". so what if it is ?!
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:16 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aah, orig thread was re what machines it can be sewn into
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: specifically, it cannot sit down in the beloved x60 or any other 4:3
mircea_popescu: all. because, whether they expect 16:9 or 4:3 or 19:6 or anything else, you can... margin it!
asciilifeform: it's a physical part, gotta fit in the frame
asciilifeform: ( cable , can be adaptered, in theory, but frame is what it is )
mircea_popescu: ah come on. ductape and bimbo-chewed gum.
mircea_popescu: don't tell me your problem is not having a 3d printer./
asciilifeform: if yer willing to carry suitcase, may as well get the chinese hdmi/vga boardlet and use with rk.
mircea_popescu: imo this half-problem was born for being trampled ignominously, but then again that's just me.
asciilifeform: there's 6 or so known lappies where thing fits natively, with 0 construction work, i have one due to show up next wk, will post photo if worx.
asciilifeform: i have nfi if item is of interest to anyone other than asciilifeform , aside from possibly phf
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i kinda like playing heroes2 on lappies, >50% of their utility, whip it out while camping or w/e. but...
asciilifeform: lenovo box, with roughly same chipset as x60
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd play in b&w ?!
asciilifeform: in very bright sun it gives colour, of a sort, interestingly
asciilifeform: ( as well as if you turn on the backlight led, then it becomes ~ordinary screen )
mircea_popescu: im kinda happy with darlana's red hair-rubies & vatawna's golden locks.
asciilifeform: the maker of the thing folded coupla yrs ago, they had 2 major buyers, the 'olpc' idjicy (dead) and usg (made clone, as i understand) and so starved.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860803 << any program which CAN use urand DOES NOT need nor should have real entropy.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
mircea_popescu: have your own program designed correctly, so your own shitropy management thread ensures your own shitropy calls always return in constant time. YOUR JOB, as a shitropy eater.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i sat down & tried to think of a legit use for urandom, only came up with what's in the linked thread
asciilifeform: tbh i wouldn't miss it if it vanished.
mircea_popescu: ie, if the most shitropy you ever want in one gulp is x, make manager thread create that chunk in contiguous memory and keep it full.
mircea_popescu: and none of the "but mp, if i make it the size i think it should be it crashes" bs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason i even called it ideological patch is because the pretense that shitropy-eaters have anyhthing to do with entropy, or us, must be shot in the head.
mircea_popescu: fucktarded zeks that eat the usg cheese THEREFORE CAN NOT nor should eat my cheese. and we're back to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860889
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 16:08 mircea_popescu: mace kucks grate agane!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall also how the thing came to be ( was idjit hack, around the fact that 'sshd wants entropy at boot time, before rng init' or somesuch )
mircea_popescu: w/e "customer has come to expect" - ism.
asciilifeform: !#s tv raft
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
mircea_popescu: i am by now thoroughly allergic to this "downstream wants something upstream doesn't provide, so it's neither time to bring out the whips and chains upon the downstream nor to throw out the upstream and bake a new one, but instead let's hotwire the microwave ballast to the toaster."
asciilifeform: afaik it's exactly this
mircea_popescu: there's a time when the hotglue guns and bimbo-chewed gum comes out.
mircea_popescu: that time is not everytime.
asciilifeform: if pc had been designed by sane folx, it'd have rng that worx at bus speed, and nobody could have even conceived of this nonsense.
mircea_popescu: in the 1980s engineers / cstronicists' defense, it was not yet understood how important entropy is to individuality and human existence.
mircea_popescu: rsa not born yet ; all our practice not yet practiced. i can scarcely blame aurel vlaicu for using textile fixed wing.
mircea_popescu: but yes, access to entropy is by now the one underpinning of being a citizen.
asciilifeform: rsa very much existed in '80s, good % of the classic papers re real-life algos for it are from exactly then
asciilifeform: wasn't widely in use tho, because expensive.
asciilifeform: ( at one time i tried to rsa on 6502, it's a royal bitch on 8bit-wide chip with no multiplier )
asciilifeform: ~hour for mod-exp.
asciilifeform: z80 ditto
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rsa first published 1977 ; Intel produces the world's first single-chip CPU, the 4004 microprocessor. in 1971.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most of the subj (e.g. barrett's algo) is late-80s
asciilifeform has entire bookshelf of it nao
asciilifeform: orig. msdos 'pgp' was , what, '92 ? and the mit-istic bastardizations, shortly after
mircea_popescu: either you go "early", in which case 1971 is before 1977 ; or else you go "mass adoption", in which case killer micro is 1990s, but rsa is EXACTLY gribble-assbot schism, cca 2013.
mircea_popescu: in either case, rsa after.
asciilifeform: yea not much point in counting banks etc. sad-512bit-rsa of mid-90s
asciilifeform: ( entertainingly analogous, imho, to their current-day 'proprietary blockchains(tm)' liquishit )
asciilifeform: 'let's do this, but without doing it'
mircea_popescu: right. otherwise it becomes this arbitrary-point anachronism in the vein of "grandmother should have fucked better sailors on the basis of how retarded granson is, and i can prove this by showing grandson was alive at an arbitrary point in time grandmother hadn't died yet."
asciilifeform: btw there's a megatonne of 512b rsa keys in my db
asciilifeform: 1024b, even moar
asciilifeform: right nao they cost maybe 100bux ea. to break.
asciilifeform: ( and that's at 'ratecard' cpu farm )
mircea_popescu: "Texas Instruments delivers the first Advanced Scientific Computer (also called Advanced Seismic Computer), containing 4 pipelines with an 80 ns clock time. Vector instructions were memory-to-memory. Seven of these machines are later built, and an aggressive automatic vectorizing FORTRAN compiler is developed for them. It is the first machine to contain SECDED (Single Error Correction, Double Error Detection) memory. " << als
mircea_popescu: o 71.
mircea_popescu: other than this, computing was pretty much 100% radar signal processing at the time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ti is epic example of sad -- at one time 1 of the largest semiconductor houses in usa, and built not only a lispm ( flopped ) but fairly beefy 80s micro ( ti-99/4 , also flopped )
asciilifeform: pissed away pretty much all market , despite at one time heavy muscle
mircea_popescu: kinda why i even took up the logline. it might be the worst #blackchickscode #womenarepeopletoo #slavesrightsnao #lxsdumbxs etc etc failure in history.
mircea_popescu: pity nobody bothers to write the story of their spectacular implosion. it'd make ye olde http://trilema.com/2014/fred-quimby-and-ancient-evils/ story look quite tame.
asciilifeform: they had a line of pocket calculators, this was ( and as i understand, remains ) their flagship product. but! they somehow managed to lose their upstream ic vendors (they dun make much with own hands any moar) and nao reduced to selling same calc with ~ipnoje+emulator internals, and multi-second boot(yes) times
mircea_popescu: it's not so much "ti could have been the intel-microsoft/apple", but rather... it was. fucking was.
asciilifeform: !#s ti-89
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 17:37 ben_vulpes: so i dug this ti-89 platinum out of my closet last night to have something tactile to do arithmetic on and holy shit i'd completely forgotten about the input lag
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/pantsuit-media-slanders-kim-kardashians-husband-as-an-incel/ << Qntra - Pantsuit Media Slanders Kim Kardashian's Husband As An "Incel"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, box ran 'derive' internally
asciilifeform: was imho the king of '90s pocketcalcism
asciilifeform still uses occasionally
mircea_popescu: gave it ALL away on inept management. and not even the "fucktarded engineer manalones" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641130 stuff.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 22:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, in the above retelling, the 4->5 transition is the coup the grace. they couldn't "follow" each other ~because~, in this view, they were bereft of sufficient bandwith to in any sense communicate. so they couldn't, like, end up with all the same one substitute cuntcap.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575059 related lulz, https://image.ibb.co/eMOrdp/no-rights-for-tards.jpg
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
mircea_popescu: READ BOOKS!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phunphakt : the only reason, afaik, why ti still not bankrupt , is that they somehow managed to get their bottom line calcs to be ~mandated~ in schools in ~whole usa
asciilifeform: ( they also make a few high-end DACs, etc., but this prolly would not keep'em alive by itself )
mircea_popescu: perfectly illustrates my point re terrible management. but yes.
asciilifeform: ~30 solid yrs of shit management
asciilifeform: if not for massive printolade infusions, would have died at roughly same time as commodore co.
mircea_popescu: !#s bad revenue source
a111: 5 results for "bad revenue source", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bad%20revenue%20source
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why did you link that exercise in idiocy re urand above ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm?
mircea_popescu: so fucking stupid it's not even wrong. it's just too stupid to anything else.
mircea_popescu: oh sorry, you labelled "related lulz/disinfo". i had it in buffer, got around to it, and well...
mircea_popescu: gave me a start.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not entirely null, perfectly indicts actor who can't do accesible web design
asciilifeform: phunphakt : bernstein (aka djb) pushes urandomism. actively.
mircea_popescu: and jwz just wants email to work, news at 11.
asciilifeform: in related lulz, and iirc we had a thread ( tho can't seem to unearth it ), urandom is sufficiently sad that when asciilifeform was running genetic algos / monte carlo / etc. crapolade , yrs ago, from it... would regularly fail to converge
asciilifeform: it was how i even got into rngism
mircea_popescu: i heard same years ago from astrophysics simulator folks.
mircea_popescu: ended up baking own, cabined size, noisemaker.
mircea_popescu: "what do you have there ? cats ?" "inter alia..."
asciilifeform: i even naively expected that we'd have steady trickle of physics folx buying FG
asciilifeform: but somehow nope
asciilifeform: ( my sim -- converged!11 -- when i fed it... don lancaster's geiger rng tarball. )
mircea_popescu: science spoken in english is very sad these days.
asciilifeform: that was when asciilifeform's '3rd eye opened'
mircea_popescu: (re above -- THEY ended up baking. i had nfi.)
a111: Logged on 2014-08-27 02:03 asciilifeform: bats_cd03: 'random' means one thing if you're running 'monte carlo' sims (digits of 'pi' work beautifully, as does 'A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates' (rand corp, 1955. book.))
asciilifeform: ^ still in print, last i saw, incidentally
mircea_popescu: pretty great book to write.
asciilifeform: allegedly they actually had meat army throwing dice.
asciilifeform: an' debiasing with pen and paper.
asciilifeform: coupla tho monkey-hours.
mircea_popescu: honestly, just buy 2mn dice, put them all in a large bag hoisted to a pole and let it drop.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i find myself wondering how many physics folx sit and bite their lips, 'monte carlo dun work so good...', cuz they bought $50k swiss 'quantum rng' that whitens with sha.
mircea_popescu: if they're out there let them doh.
asciilifeform: afaik that's all of'em.
mircea_popescu: "i wonder how much science was fucked out of existence / significantly delayed by #metoo-isms and in general, spurious involvement of idiots"
asciilifeform: this pre-dates most of the current acute nonsense, even
mircea_popescu: every time xantipa interrupted her illustious husband with some nonsense or other, rite.
asciilifeform: it aint as if von neumann didn't warn'em.
asciilifeform: 'state of sin', or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: pandora also warned. what's in a warning.
asciilifeform: notmuch. 'they have ears, but do not hear'(tm)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860806 << "own prng" stance also correctly implements specificity-of-diddling republican doctrine, and more importantly one not really so formally expressed before -- that responsibility must sit with they responsible.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:41 asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta why i didn't even want a /dev/random, recall
mircea_popescu: if you want to keep slaves -- then YOU administer the keeping of the slaves. you don't ask sheriff of wherver county to implement the fugitive slave act. and so on. who wants prng makes prng, does not get to pretend "oh, kernel has this knob for me, '''im not entirely sure what it does lol'''" tongue in cheek bs, '''i just dress like this, it doesn't mean anyhthing''' etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kernel should read fg like it reads memory.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it behaves moar like a (very slowly moving) tape, tho, rather than memory
mircea_popescu: the only problem, to my eye, is that good abstraction is being hijacked by the female minded to implement bad abstraction, ie, instead of an insulation from detail abstraction becomes an insulation from responsibility.
asciilifeform: if kernel gotta be involved at all, it really ought to be simply to prevent multiple processes from seeing same FG bits.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, but same principle.
mircea_popescu: well yes.
asciilifeform: currently i suspect that 'slicing' (per ave1 thread) isn't even wanted; but simply locking.
asciilifeform: grab how many bits you want, then let go of the toilet lock for the next process.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 12:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was done ( twice ! ) , lol, see further downthread.
mircea_popescu: lol kk, going through.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile visiting duckling got into my shoes, is individually gumming each of however many dozens laces, then forgetting its count and starting over.
asciilifeform: imho pretty good didactic thread, btw, i'ma start linking to it
asciilifeform: ( walkthrough of how to take 'programmatic' form and turn into closed-algebraic )
asciilifeform: btw ave1 , if you're gonna keep the 'minimum 4 bytes of input', it oughta be a precondition to the func.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860843 << o yeah, that's so evident from the extant record, too...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 ave1: ouch, but I hate thinking
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 asciilifeform: ( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrollable, too.
mircea_popescu: trying to figure out the future misses of the obvious by the branch predictor is the best way to drive intelligent people insane i know of.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: x86 actually has terrifying hacks, in instruction sets, 'likely branch'/'unlikely branch'
asciilifeform: spawned by this sorta thing
mircea_popescu: kinda how the whole thing even came to my attention. "really ?"
asciilifeform: it has a legit, sorta, use -- long loops ( where branch 'likely', given as it is taken for all but final shot ) but still ugh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 <<< ahaha this was a hystorical histerical moment!
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
asciilifeform: personally i fucking hate branch prediction and other hacks around the slow main memory that for some reason there's no buyable alternative to ( cray is dead )
mircea_popescu: republican agreement!
asciilifeform: i'd rather have addressable sram , and explicit movement to/from a slower/cheaper brick
mircea_popescu: so like a handrolled cache.
asciilifeform: but with 'stick shift'
mircea_popescu: if you ever design a car, i bet it'll come with direct command ignition clicker.
mircea_popescu: AS MANY BUTTONS AS SPARKPLUGS
mircea_popescu: (correspondingly -- alf's boat design will come with the necessary body of water.)
asciilifeform: ( recall, early steam engine actually had ~this )
mircea_popescu: "surfer girl toy set. batteries and ocean included"
asciilifeform: lol, could even describe e.g. trb this way
asciilifeform: speaking of trb, i dusted off an old conveyor item, phuctor-like www proggy that maps out noadez ( you give it ips, and it connects to'em, then issues 'version' and 'getaddr', and builds a graph )
asciilifeform: idea being a republican (and non-idiotic) replacement for the https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/ item
mircea_popescu: were you making a bot or already had a bot ?
mircea_popescu: i recall some discussion
asciilifeform: irc bot ?
mircea_popescu: !alf check 126.96.36.199
asciilifeform: i have 1 presently ( switched off, will move it to pizarro in near fyootoor ) , talks to ffa
asciilifeform: ah yes i'ma use same skeleton for the nodes thing
asciilifeform: initial draft is a plain phuctor-like www display tho
mircea_popescu: ideally use same bot. have a buncha functions in it.
mircea_popescu: think of it like your digital pet.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what they are.
asciilifeform: definitely calls for a text bot
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: btw i think you'll like this, by default thing does opposite of the heathen one, doesn't display prb nodes individually, but simply as a collective 'sad people' stat # .
asciilifeform: individual display only of trb-compat folx.
asciilifeform: further in pipeline, will be a thing that actually asks'em for a randomly-picked block, and sees if it keccaks to what i've got.
mircea_popescu: (one perfectly legitimate way to build-towards-gossipd is to make the following item standard : every bot, upon receiving some registration order from anyone in owner's wot, will then respond to "any messages for me ?" with a "since yo ulast asked, here's all the loglines i have seen which highlighted your name".
asciilifeform: this'd be gold, imho, yes
mircea_popescu: this then would allow one to maintain presence without ever connecting to the internet.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860960 -> hm, doesn't the manifest impose a single line rather than a tree?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 16:32 mircea_popescu: ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: no? you can branch on manifest like on anyffing else
mircea_popescu: diana_coman a single line ~in the press~. but a tree ~in existence~.
mircea_popescu: press == taking the tree of patches and building a line among them
diana_coman: ah, alternative line in manifest too, I see it
diana_coman: makes sense, yes
mircea_popescu: why not. sure.
asciilifeform: manifest is a piece of handy docs, not a straightjacket, lol
diana_coman: and it fits perfectly the original idea of alternative, proper
mircea_popescu: note that it's not even illegal to blank the manifest or w/e. impolite, yes, but the spec allows.
mircea_popescu: sorta how physics perfectly permits the destruction of statues, even though people tend to not indulge.
asciilifeform: if yer nuking the manifest, good form would be to regenesis then imho. but yes
diana_coman: well yes, I can't quite see the point of blanking the manifest without regenesis since that's basically what it means
trinque: just didn't need preventing, as the bad form is screamingly apparent
diana_coman: so I guess I'll wait then on ave1's updated .vpatch then
asciilifeform: re upstack -- as it happens, 'trb-compat' is pretty easy to distinguish mechanically -- anybody who has 'services' field != 1, aint trb-compat.
asciilifeform: ( granted such a survey won't distinguish 'pseudos' or outright shams, the only item that can do it is an actual noad )
asciilifeform: the 1 'litmus test' i was able to think of , is the 'i pick a block hash and you gimme the block in <1s' algo.
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that a very large % of the current set of 'nodes' won't pass.
asciilifeform: btw trb could in principle be made entirely distinguishable, if we were to permit asking for a ~tx~ in 'inv' command ( currently prohibited , because prb nuked indexing , but could be brought into trb with no ill effect aside from some cpu cost )
asciilifeform: in-block tx, that is, rather than mempool
asciilifeform: it's a 2edged blade, as it would be a great temptation to 'light client' idjits to parasitize on trb. but would make for easy litmus.
mats: BingoBoingo: thx
lobbesbot: mats: Sent 1 day, 0 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NaRtE/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: mats: No, thank you
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
mircea_popescu: "Molesto, Abdala sostuvo que prefiere que no se presente. No puede caer un millonario en paracaídas a decir que va a ser precandidato, dijo. " <<< ahjahaha AND WHY THE FUCK NOT ?
mircea_popescu: what, because while he was getting rich and htey weren't "they were doing something equallty important" ? like what, let me guess, http://trilema.com/the-goodbye-girl "redecorating" the apartment ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun even know that the traditional orc intuition of 'rich ~= receives payola from miami' is such terrible heuristic
mircea_popescu: THERE IS NOTHING EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
asciilifeform: it's approx as solid as 'linux dunwork'
mircea_popescu: we need a snippet of dennis hopper going "MAKE SOME FUCKING MONEY!!!" search and distroy bit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is notably not what they're saying.
mircea_popescu: what they're saying is, "just because he's rich doesn't mean we're dirt". which -- it does mean, yes.
asciilifeform: lol i suppose nao i gotta actually read what they were sayin'..
mircea_popescu: A un partido de 182 años no le interesan señores oportunistas que vengan a instalarse." << this "anos" thing is such a big thing in southamerica, too.
asciilifeform: very argentine flavour eh
mircea_popescu: all the shitty shops in argentina were doing the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0 bullshit, "we've been here for 5690845 years." "yes, but you suck" "that is less important"
asciilifeform: 'fucking customers with rusty nail since 1810'
mircea_popescu: yoiu know ? bar-disco-club the size of your bathroom. "wtf is wrong with you ?!" "we've been serving customers since 1972!" "yeah well when you finally add up the slices to one whole served customer let me know"
asciilifeform: dunno, ben_vulpes walked me into one in buenosaires that was bigger than my house, and ~empty
mircea_popescu: where ?!
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes do you recall where ?
asciilifeform: i bet he does, d00d hung around for months there iirc
mircea_popescu: wait, when was this ?!
asciilifeform: c3 week
asciilifeform: i havent been there since, no
mircea_popescu: and ben_vulpes was around for months ?!
asciilifeform: he had prior expedition
asciilifeform: iirc even brought woman
mircea_popescu: ave1 please return my memory that you stole. you can have yours back kthx.
asciilifeform: iirc he investigated ar for terraforming
asciilifeform: at any rate i dun doubt that the item wouldv'e broken spectacularly if mircea_popescu had torture-tested it
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is not exactly primo disco tester.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you maybe confusing ben_vulpes and mthreat ? who did actually live there yes, but ended up importing gf, jet etc. mostly used local infrastructure for cheap pilot lessons.
asciilifeform: nope, definitely ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: i oddly have no recollection of this.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860880 << bwahaha. amplio what, amplio culo << Amplio is the Italian "Samba, sí" party
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
asciilifeform: pretty sure there was thread, even
asciilifeform: !#s from:ben_vulpes buenos aires
a111: 8 results for "from:ben_vulpes buenos aires", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aben_vulpes%20buenos%20aires
BingoBoingo: Partido Nacional, historically the Partido Blanco, is the rural party
BingoBoingo: But yes, lots of butthurt about what the fellow in question was doing making money and yet... He's their best chance to avoid a coup
mircea_popescu: lotta this "i've been sitting here doing nothing for a long time, therefore i matter" nation of africa bs.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> and ben_vulpes was around for months ?! << iirc a month-ish, something something wedding
mircea_popescu: doing noting over time == someone will put a collar on you and you'll dance for pennies.
asciilifeform: ( anyway if anybody turns up the thread, plox to link, i'm coming up empty )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc he mentioned 'orc exam' for gurl ~prior~ to marrying it
asciilifeform: 'can survive on barren plantoid or not, lessee'
BingoBoingo: Anyways, presenting quiet threat of military coup is exactly why Uruguay has army answering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-12#1850048
a111: Logged on 2018-09-12 19:52 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo uruguay has AN ARMY !?
mircea_popescu: i guess so, yeah.
mircea_popescu: anyway, moar venezuela just what the doctor ordered for the miami cunts.
asciilifeform: speaking of which !
mircea_popescu: let them fucking starve, and lick each other's bungholes in lieu of crocheting their own toilet paper, im 100% for it.
asciilifeform: hey BingoBoingo whatever happened to that chix
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: She's still trying to unwind father's estate and extract mother from caracas
asciilifeform: is she crocheting, or lickin', or wat...
mircea_popescu: the obvious and necessary (though unfortunate -- but fuck them for not speaking up at the right time) result of #metoo is daily beatings and gang rape for all campus and highschool dwellers. rotherham / durban style
asciilifeform: hm ok
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has this a+++ chix
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with that.
asciilifeform: pretty unusually, even had 'magic' voice, sorta like how i imagined sheherezad did
mircea_popescu: ahaha! nice
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In the interim her, mother, and small zoo of dogs and cats are in very un-Uruguayo home with six car garage
asciilifeform: rare talent. she's wasted on pulling teeth.
BingoBoingo: Chinese ancestry on mother's side, Polish on father's
asciilifeform: !!up nicoleci
deedbot: nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: And her girlfriend dearly misses her
asciilifeform: nicoleci: it was me ringing yer phone, btw, sorry'bout the short convo, had to switch terminals
nicoleci: asciilifeform, no worries! i think their was a connection issue because i could barely understand you but mod6 was clear
asciilifeform: nicoleci: yer an international pnoje superstar nao, btw.
nicoleci: asciilifeform, haha thanks. feel free to call me anytime and yell about the logs summaries
nicoleci: ill check out the link too
mircea_popescu: this has taken an unexpected turn :D
nicoleci: anything else i should know?
asciilifeform: nicoleci: i recommend to learn a bit re tbf and what it is, cuz folx will eventually start asking..
mircea_popescu: nicoleci notrly, if anyone calls asking for infos relay the q's here. other than that...
asciilifeform: also worx
mircea_popescu: over time some kind of standardized form may emerge.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prolly will go smoother if she has some of it in l1 cache, imho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was there a fixed greeting ? "Hello you have reached The Bitcoin Foundation, how may I help you ?"
nicoleci: ok cool. has anyone been able to ask questions before or is the ability to openly ask questions all new?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sounds a++
asciilifeform: mod6 what do you think
mircea_popescu: nicoleci all new.
asciilifeform: new, bleedin' edge
mircea_popescu: anyway, the idea is mostly to permit "journa" tards get a documentation point for their shitty markov chain processes of wordsalading ; and i suppose for the internet cucks to wank at.
BingoBoingo: Hopefully with productive bleeding to edge ratio
nicoleci: ok ill use the standardized greeting and potentially take notes.. and contact info if possible
mircea_popescu recalls in the early 2010s in romania, varios 0 value local niggers (who thought themselves important, much like the above mentioned Abdala Nobodyonastick) kept calling my secretary and having various brainstop moments on the phone.
mircea_popescu: because totally, if ro anontard is poor then everyone and everything he might see or hear is equally poor anontard.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 what do you think << yeah! Sounds good. I put together a thing, lemme dig it out...
BingoBoingo: In further profiles of the MUGA guy https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/quien-es-el-millonario-que-quiere-ser-candidato-blanco-y-debe-millones-al-brou-20181012151830
mod6: Nice talkin' to ya, btw. I know it was short, but I didn't wanna burn your time or call money.
asciilifeform: mod6: it's a nickel/min, not exactly megabux
nicoleci: mod6, thanks, you too! lol you definitely surprised me, i thought i was dreaming of the channel for a second
BingoBoingo: The nugget there is Mr. MUGA is the fellow keeping Uruguay's legal cannabis market from collapsing
mod6: heheh. :]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo by his own habit ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: By doing his damnest to do the industrial garden thing
mircea_popescu: a ok...
BingoBoingo: Produce product to spec within insaneland limits
BingoBoingo: Megablog on that situation is still baking, should not cross into five figure wordcount
BingoBoingo: But the short of it is he has one of the several firms contracted for filling government dope baggies with product for pharmacy distribution. Manages to actually accomplish that task.
mircea_popescu: five figure no crime
BingoBoingo: This, in a country where milk was recently imported from Brasil and Spain
mircea_popescu: no moar cows in uruguay ?
BingoBoingo: Plenty of cows
mircea_popescu: or let me guess, they all went to college, cutting up paper now.
BingoBoingo: Labor trouble
BingoBoingo: Cows do their job, people who carry on from the cow's work fail to do so
BingoBoingo: Wat do?
BingoBoingo: The socialism has run to the point things are breaking, and... Bahamas doesn't do, Trump does
mircea_popescu: "manspreading" is a thing, femfatting is not a thing, rite rite.
asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu's fetlife picz, and ugh
mircea_popescu: she is literally laughing at you, alf. recalling ? you mean tigdic ?
asciilifeform: there was a 'hamplanet' thing
mircea_popescu: i know. hence "she is literally laughing at you".
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lolwho, the subj ?!
asciilifeform: holyhell, mircea_popescu imported that one ?!
mircea_popescu: I WAS MAKING A SARCASTIC REMARK
mircea_popescu: apparently it has the capacity to whoosh BOTH WAYS over your ehad!
asciilifeform: lol for a sec i almost believed
asciilifeform: at this point i can believe many things
asciilifeform: in related zoological lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B53JOuVU7_0 apparently happens
nicoleci: asciilifeform, jesus - bad time to voice myself. maybe the raccoon saw those fetlife pictures.. mp was saying he needs more gross shit on his blog
asciilifeform: i for 1 am fascinated. i dun recall mice, rats, doing this.
asciilifeform: and i've emptied my share of mousetrap.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861369 << oblig >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#641281
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 19:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
a111: Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
mircea_popescu: lol FOUR YEARS
asciilifeform: eh 54
asciilifeform: was hruschev-era thing
mircea_popescu: i meant the logbridge
asciilifeform: meanwhile in upstack lulz: asciilifeform discovered that a good % of prb returns NOTHING to getaddr command. how the fuck do these people connect to peers ? ( i'ma guess some gavintronic-over-https curated nonsense )
mircea_popescu: iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
nicoleci: mircea_popescu, lol
nicoleci: what a gem.
mircea_popescu: seems perfect prison toy.
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, i suppose this would be the pinnacle of perversity : to get titfixed women smuggled into prison for your amusement, but only ever fuck them in the ass.
mircea_popescu: "couldnt you just use the other prisoners then ?!" "eh, what's the subversive fun in that."
asciilifeform: lol wtf is that
asciilifeform: and did they stitch it from the torsos of the dead or wut
mircea_popescu: according to her, that's a boy just like you!
mircea_popescu: no, that's how mammary resection looks like.
asciilifeform: lol my init thought was eunuch
mircea_popescu: sorta, i guess.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861392 << if mircea_popescu or anybody else recalls the thread, plox to link
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Latest update from Venezuala is that none of the 4 cars in the garage work, but the motocicleta does.
hanbot: BingoBoingo: I went to send your WU, but either someone I traded with back in the days of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817953 that is based in Peru did Something Bad(tm), or else I dunno, your gf? In any case they're doing this entire song & dance about how "there's an alert" and "i gotta talk to a lawyer to justify...it's not clear what or why or to whom", entirely contentless fluff.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
hanbot: I don't think I'ma bother to debug their nonsense, as far as I'm concerned Western Union was never even marginally useful for any purpose I can think of. But obviously they did carefully write down all the details before not doing any work, so I dunno...advanced warning I guess? Not sure how much the shitpile can be relied on.
hanbot: Anyway, I'm going to get it settled tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
mircea_popescu: lmao did you get banned from fetunion ?
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Thank you for the update
hanbot: mircea_popescu i'm not even sure, their banhammer is like a pile of weird noodles.
mircea_popescu: if only they still had paypal.
mircea_popescu: if this ends up settled by the mailing of a large quantity of alfajores... keks
mircea_popescu: hanbot it's not entirely clear, is the idea that you're the terrorist ? or that he is the terrorist ?
BingoBoingo: alfajores, standing cattle, grains, we'll figure something out
asciilifeform: hanbot: mysteriously, 100% of my wu worked (1st one barfed 1ce, rinsed and repeated, then ok for 6mo )
mircea_popescu: western bunion deplatforming pizarro! conspiraci!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same barf ?
hanbot: mircea_popescu i think if you ask why, a terrorist is you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was nameless eggog
hanbot: seriously though it's not at all clear.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this shit doesn't actually work in any sense, does it.
asciilifeform: hanbot: one time i caught a wu monkey and squeezed an answer from it, 'corp office forbidden by dhs to say why not worked'
mircea_popescu: which is the dhs ? human services ?
asciilifeform: homeland stupidity
mircea_popescu: highland securities ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i said, i sent'em for 6mo in a row with 0 eggog afterwards
asciilifeform: in my experience, after you get 1 working shot, it's cached
mircea_popescu: but i mean... you understand how little sense this makes, neither of this has anything to do... oh, cuz wu is a us thing.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do you have some local remitter in that neck of the woods ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a us thing. and used 99+% by mexicans et al to send moolah to home goatfuck village
mircea_popescu: ie, cut the usgtards out of loop entirely ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts there's a clone that lives in cr and uy ( and not usa )
asciilifeform: that'd work perfectly for hanbot -> bb
mircea_popescu: you'd think. or whatever, latam.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There's a couple local in uruguay services, will look into it
mircea_popescu: that'd be halpful.
BingoBoingo: I dun know if any of them talk outside uruguay
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wtf would be the point of a wu spampal that only worx ~in~ 1 place
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments
BingoBoingo: Fuckers like standing in line
asciilifeform: nao if only they'd get the fuck with the program and invent btc in uy...
asciilifeform: i dare say it's almost like we have screwdriver, but ~nobody's come up with screws yet
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you mean they're sending money to themselves ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol , send to where ? across the street ?!
BingoBoingo: They send money across town, to the interior, to the bill collectors
mircea_popescu: every day we discuss imperial "money" and its working is another day nothing makes any fucking sense at all.
asciilifeform: i dun get it at all, BingoBoingo . they pay $ to send 'across town' ?!
asciilifeform: why not carry it on the tram, lol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo oh like a "we're too poor to sell tickets/collect bills, so use this mob-like scam ticketfuckery.com" sorta thing ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tram asks too much
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because lots and lots of "companies" can't actually afford counter.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: AHA
asciilifeform: and they aint invented cheques yet ?
mircea_popescu: so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc.
BingoBoingo: Except instead of .com it's a storefront/kiosko
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they disinvented cheques because copier is a thing and well... even in the 70s us it was quite iffy.
hanbot: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments << lol truth
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have these in usa. they're used by 'cash economy' folx to pay isp etc
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc. << AHA, abitab, RedPagos, etc
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: here EVERYONE uses them
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in principle it's possibly healthy, means they're avoiding banks / electrofiatola
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ok, but not that, specifically remittance. "send your paycheck to wife back in nicaragua" sorta things.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: good % of classical usg totalitarian bullshit is enforced through 'employer pays into yer bank, which reports erry penny'
mircea_popescu: pestilential enough here.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and by "good %" we mean all of it -- usg would end tomorrow if employers had to pay in cash.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: either that or they'd have to return to 18th c. tax collection methods.
asciilifeform: with physical bag man.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Will explore those options. I suspect there might be something.
mircea_popescu: about as doable as phones returning to 1950s state of the art. with maidens and spokes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reportedly ru mil still using maidens-with-spokes.
asciilifeform: at least for some % of callz
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if found it's good to have from a purely http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846382 exercise ; but anyway, tis getting settled.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 00:38 mod6: mircea_popescu does have a point re 'freedom of navigation' tho. but ya, if it doesn't matter to BingoBoingo, I'm game.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform relatively easier to get the few maidens nobody wants to fuck than to press into service the few maidens everyone wants to fuck.
asciilifeform: i'm looking at my notes, and seems like erry wu i ever sent ( and i sent a good coupla dozen ) took 2 shots (per new addressee)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Definitely.
asciilifeform: i dunno what cockroaches are in the pertinent heads... 'terrorist will never try 2x' ? nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe they had to get the right agents at teh right office!
asciilifeform: or to reboot ms excel. whoknows
asciilifeform: wu even spams me nao. in spanish, no less. 'wai you no send lately' approx
asciilifeform: oh i should note, had to get 'account' for it to work
asciilifeform: sending a 1shot never worked , from here
mircea_popescu: wait, accounts ?!
mircea_popescu: doesnt' this literally defeat the whole purpose of the whole thing ?
mircea_popescu: i thought i was being funny with the paypal throwaway.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-08 15:57 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean isn't the point of this whole wu business that you just walk into an office and send someone a few benjies ?
asciilifeform: it only started to work once i fed it a name, addr, and cc.
mircea_popescu: heh ok.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usg.verboten, apparently
mircea_popescu: im behind the times.
asciilifeform: 'benjie in, benjie out' is only at hawaladar counter.
mircea_popescu: is eating still permitted in the usgulag, or also meanwhile verboten ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: permitted for nao, but ~1000% 'tax' if you want actual food...
asciilifeform: ( this is not seekrit, if you want actual phood in usa, you pay like on space station )
mircea_popescu: ein anderes, why not.
asciilifeform: the astonishing bit imho is that they carry this nonsense over to e.g. cr office.
asciilifeform: but i suppose consistent.
mircea_popescu: the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
mircea_popescu: make more than from coke in a few short years.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, if local morons still act as if they lived in usg zone, notwithstanding they make 5k a year or so...
asciilifeform: anybody with pile of benjie could do it right nao, simply eat/shit btc on site. but for some reason these folx allergic to btc ? i haven't the faintest idea
mircea_popescu: i expect bulk of the nonsense is still guy runs away to work, wants to send dough back to wife.
mircea_popescu: gotta start firebombing wu "offices" / shooting anyone trying to work there in the head to interdict their sapping of this market.
mircea_popescu: then it'll work.
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem with "we'll permit cattle to have their usg.thing and we'll do the right thing" is that why exactly is usg getting the cheap and easy fruit ?
mircea_popescu: no such free lunch, let ustards and ustard-wannabes pay for gas for armorer car to go from embassy to wu and back. like teh arabs do it.
asciilifeform: the hilarity is that the 'terrorists' ( goat-flavoured orcs ) have 0 prob with the idjicy, they have their hawala
asciilifeform: in-wot orc btc.
asciilifeform: goin' strong for 1000+yrs nao
mircea_popescu: im curious what'll be the Mocky reports on that.
asciilifeform: i'll be at least slightly surprised if he manages to penetrate subj; but i like good surprises
mircea_popescu: why ?
mircea_popescu: either it works or it doesn't.
asciilifeform: as i understand, it worx b/c tight wot
mircea_popescu: if it works it must work in the manner of things working.
asciilifeform: rather than 'allcomer'
asciilifeform: usg hunts hawaladars as if they were ebola sprayers . but they still live.
mircea_popescu: what, in qatar ?!
asciilifeform: doubtful. but wherever the reich tendrils reach.
BingoBoingo: If USG had that kind of pull in Qatar why nuclear waste trenches at the border?
asciilifeform: ( europistan, asian shitholes, etc )
asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
mircea_popescu: can't say i do either.
mircea_popescu: possibly infantile temper tantrum by whatever nuland cunt they have now.
asciilifeform: gotta be
asciilifeform: but to naked eye entirely inexplicable, qatar is possibly 1st or 2nd biggest sponsor of usg idjicy in the goatfuck deserts
mircea_popescu: or was at any rate.
asciilifeform: for all i know, still is, the gears grind slowly
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem is that not enough bitchslapping of stupid cunts who imagine "their oppinions on #ows" or w/e are sought or even possible as an abstract object. THAT is the true usg, the pile of moron dreamers.
asciilifeform: dunno, they could all die of pox tonight and i suspect the lizards would shrug, less overhead
asciilifeform: i dun grasp how 'dreamers' enable dhs etc
asciilifeform: they sum to ~0 as tax base, and do ~nuffin
BingoBoingo: The dreamers fuel the their democracy fictional mandate
asciilifeform: sure, but it's a theatrical production, with roughly same physical impact as footballism
asciilifeform: nobody voted for dhs, dea, etc. yet there they are.
asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
asciilifeform: y'know, employed folx, who don't 'opinionate at #ows' or pollute fetlife or etc.
asciilifeform: kinda why i wanted to get the fuck out since long before tmsr. i'm buying hitler's lunch and it's stomach-turning.
asciilifeform: iirc mod6 , ben_vulpes , trinque , admitted to similar thought, in l0gz.
BingoBoingo: Kinda how I ended up in the Home Despot garden department before taking off to Uruguay.
asciilifeform: upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc
asciilifeform: the 'hallucinated choice'(tm)(r) thing
asciilifeform: it's mindboggling, all sorts of folx whom seemingly 'god himself made for btc', e.g. malware racket, still use spampals/dwollas/etc as if year were 2008
asciilifeform: and they're regularly gassed, wherever, thailand or pretty much any turd world shithole, usg dun even have to break a sweat
asciilifeform: all they gotta do is to follow the spampal usd etc
asciilifeform: part of the puzzler i suspect lies in the continued operation of the waterfall
asciilifeform: idjit orcs would rather die, apparently, than risk exch rate swing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an old piece where mentioned orcs all over saving in usd, hanging on to erry benjie like it were a shard of the trooo cross. ~that~ is 1 of the elephants on which usg stands.
asciilifeform: if they started saving in btc instead, there'd be 'hawaladar' to fill their appetite on erry street corner, from sahara to patagonia
asciilifeform: but apparently no dice.
asciilifeform: naturally cattle cannot operate a btctron. they'd have to delegate it to an actual person. but even ~these~ , in orcistan, seem to prefer to stash up usd.
asciilifeform: ...because dream of miami ? i've nfi.
asciilifeform: fwiw it appears that BingoBoingo presently houses the ONLY actual btc noadz in BingoBoingostan... per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859945
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
asciilifeform: so not much surprise that there aint a lively otc market.
BingoBoingo: trinque: has one here
asciilifeform: i meant the rack as a whole
asciilifeform: returning upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861511 , the fact that they haven't, is imho serious support for asciilifeform's traditional hypothesis of the dope folx being ~symbionts~ of usg , rather than antagonists
a111: Logged on 2018-10-12 23:56 mircea_popescu: the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
asciilifeform: without usg's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817099 thing, there's be as much 'dope cartel' as there is aspirin cartel.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-22 23:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816718 << hah, i originally watched it for the same reason, and the only thing i even remember is burroughs sitting in the chair, and spitting the "narcotics" prediction in his famous squeaky voice
asciilifeform: the dope people, by all indications, ~luvvv~ usd. and none of the 'remittance policing' exists at any level that'd bother'em.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861550 << the confessional fervor of this fellow...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 00:15 asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
mircea_popescu: "worst sinner is i!"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in "i don't think you know what those words mean", "Im a geek person and Im kinda nerd as well. Im studying in human sciences and Im a dancer. Also, I'm a young mom of a sweet lil girl who is 2 years old! :3"
mircea_popescu: chick's 21, with a 3 yo and she thinks she's anything but barefoot and pregnant indian camp follower.
trinque: I figure the sin's lazily evaluated; did you liberate some cash from usg and thus liberate your own arse, or not.
mircea_popescu: in other wtf : does https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! redirect to some weird website for anyone ? because wtf is going on here, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us works as expected.
trinque: yep, userstyles.org
mircea_popescu: apparently the duckduckgo site itself is pwned ?
mircea_popescu: ie, it returns a redirect from the correct ip (at least i see duckduckgo.com. 403 IN A 188.8.131.52 here ?)
mircea_popescu: obscure spamdomain from liuke... the 2000s.
mircea_popescu: but why does it do it for q=us! ? shouldn't it be q=!us then ?
mircea_popescu: nfi what fucking "geek roots", anyway. but w/e.
phf: mircea_popescu: it seems like either end works, i sometimes use !g and g! also works
mircea_popescu: i'm not at all pleased with this convenience.
mircea_popescu: and it's about as geek as your average yuppie, also!
mircea_popescu: da fuck, english pronoun followed by exclamation point is a redirect because "greek roots" ? nonsense!
phf: i just noticed that the geek roots thing links to #!, quite idiotic
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KgnGR/?raw=true << full barfola.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform curl --trace filename
mircea_popescu: i find it extremely useful, btw.
mircea_popescu: large part of why wget is a lulz to me, like water pistol.
asciilifeform: loox to be largely same as mircea_popescu's
asciilifeform: tbf i have nfi what it looked like yesterday or prior
mircea_popescu: um. no, actually, yours looks like legit page, not redirect.
asciilifeform: lol i only read as far as the cert
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, plain url
mircea_popescu: ah, no that specifically.
asciilifeform: ( why curl refuses to put the url in the debug dump, is mystery to me )
asciilifeform: btw i get diff ip on erry shot
asciilifeform: i think they use a balancer thing
mircea_popescu: um. so what, "bangs" only work for me ?
asciilifeform: loox like.
mircea_popescu: such bullshit...
asciilifeform: btw lulzily, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! loaded via www browser -- redirects to https://userstyles.org/
asciilifeform: but loox like it's done via jsolade
asciilifeform: so indeed, 'bangs' -- work here. just not from curl's pov.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform doesn't see ddg as somehow less unsavoury than google et al. if it were baked by honest folx it wouldn't https.
asciilifeform: thing has slightly, barely measurably, less censored outputs, but that's pretty much it
asciilifeform: approx on par with e.g. 'yandex'.
phf: asciilifeform: i assume this is part of "block all google on ip level" program
asciilifeform: doomed, incidentally, approach -- they own (and undocumentedly) a good chunk of ipv4
mircea_popescu: well, i used to think that maybe ; but this level of utterly idiotic bs is convincing me otherwise.
mircea_popescu: in fairness, web search accounts for roughly 0% of my web use anyway, so...
asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that ddg is exactly 'hushmail'
mircea_popescu: i'll dump "search engine" as a category, same bit bucket "email" as a concept went, np.
asciilifeform: i.e. 'classy' usg honeypot for 'we are 133337 and h8t3 google'
asciilifeform uses searchtrons perhaps 98% for eggog strings, 1% for electronic parts purchase, and 1% remain
mircea_popescu: i generally use for fidning trilema articles when too lazy to bring up mysql terminal.
asciilifeform: btw was there particular reason mircea_popescu never exposed wp search box on his www ? ( cpu miser ? )
mircea_popescu: they're marginally less aggravation in "oh, never heard of that page" than they're productive in "well, dun have to unlock key"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz i have one in mysqld ?
asciilifeform: rright, but why not keep it publicly. asciilifeform for instance does.
asciilifeform: that way other folx also can search trilema without feeding the beast.
mircea_popescu: all searches take 1-2s, you realise. course i do the luxurious LIKE "%x%" format.
asciilifeform: until recently i also 'why should phuctor have search, i can search in postgres console'
asciilifeform: i also get the added pheature of seeing ~what~ folx search for
asciilifeform: whereas back when they were stuck massaging google, didn't
asciilifeform: ( google in particular no longer reliably forwards keywords in refer hdr )
mircea_popescu: i'd just get 5bn bots "searching" for the usual crap.
phf: asciilifeform: correct approach is to download entire trilema and index it locally. folks who don't bother to do that have no business searching it :>
mircea_popescu: i do not even kid, the 5bn figure is ~accurate.
asciilifeform: phf: lol, rsync
asciilifeform: emerge --update trilema
asciilifeform: laff, but given cuntoo, it ~could~
mircea_popescu: you know, the future may even be the right move.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i believe "local search box" is utterly wrong cut.
mircea_popescu: sorta like "bag of yes/no peas".
asciilifeform: i search my www, small as it is, surprisingly often. and i like that i neither have to use google or unsheath the launch codes, to do it.
asciilifeform: and can see what others searched in it.
mircea_popescu: search, esp fulltext search, gets very expensive with larger datasets.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phuctor goes in <1s
asciilifeform: across ~40GB .
asciilifeform: not so expensive.
asciilifeform: trick lies in indices, so that 40G dun get walked erry time, elementarily
mircea_popescu: yes, but i think your 40gb figure is misleading.
mircea_popescu: ie, you have very many very short records.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
asciilifeform: scales pretty well.
asciilifeform: and yes they're short, but there's ~10mil of'em .
asciilifeform: err, 100mil
mircea_popescu: but trilema has the converse problem : there's ks of article, from 2kb to 200kb or so.
asciilifeform: worx just as well
mircea_popescu: hm. where's this trigraph thing ?
asciilifeform: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/pgtrgm.html for the interested.
asciilifeform: i dunno what is the mysql equiv. presently
asciilifeform: there gotta be one
mircea_popescu: how do you mean "works just as well" ? The pg_trgm module provides functions and operators for determining the similarity of ASCII alphanumeric text based on trigram matching, as well as index operator classes that support fast searching for similar strings. << seems eminently based on birthday problem, "how many different permutations of 60 characters can there be"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: takes yer search string, and cuts it into trigraphs, e.g. 'trigraph' -> 'tri':1 , 'rig':1 , 'igr':1, 'gra':1, 'aph':1
asciilifeform: and matches these up with similarly processed indexed items
asciilifeform: it's barbaric but seems to work great.
asciilifeform: '60s, iirc, algo.
mircea_popescu: no, i understand the concept ; what i don't understand is why you think this works well for wildly varied size records.
asciilifeform: cuz size dun matter so much
mircea_popescu: ie, what do you think is the trigram index of a 200kb file ?
mircea_popescu: i guess there's no way out of implementing some inverse-index or i guess ngram really, to test this out. mebbe my intuition is entirely off
mircea_popescu: but it'd seem the index would scale on an exponential of record size
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're stored sparsely, loox like
asciilifeform: so you dun blow 127**3 / 8 == 256kB on ea. row
asciilifeform: which you otherwise would
mircea_popescu: you know ?
asciilifeform: then thing loox for rows that ~could~ contain yer string
asciilifeform: and then binarysearchates'em
asciilifeform: simple enuff, on paper.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess the right answer to your q is that i'm way too lazy to put the work into it ? i guess simplest approach would be to convert a set of trilema records to postgres, and try your pg_trgm thing on it.
mircea_popescu: surprisingly short list.
asciilifeform: 'Military Services pay approximately $7M in FLPB to 27,000 Active Duty (24,000) and Reserve Component (3,000) Service members...' << lol!! what, ~2 benjies ea.?!