Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2018-05-07 | 2018-05-09 →
esthlos: trinque: yesterday could not make it to irc. removing the dependancy on cl-ppcre shoudn't be too hard. sbcl comes with sb-ext:run-program, which wraps a call to execvp ( if somehow uiop is being thrown into the mix, then it shouldn't be
esthlos: it should be fixed if I replace the current call to run-program with the full sb-ext:run-program, and really the call should be fixed to work on ccl as well
esthlos: will bbl
mod6: mornin!
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
asciilifeform: in other noose, ~4.5m of 7m jurov keyz eaten.
mod6: wow, phuctor is crunchin through 'em quick huh
asciilifeform: 0 crunched yet
asciilifeform: merely eaten
asciilifeform: i'ma grind'em all in 1 batch
mod6: yah, that's what i mean. eaten.
mod6: get with wthe lingo mod6
asciilifeform: ( the way bernsteinism works, a given run does not reduce the work of subsequent run in any way )
ave1: diana_coman,, I'm working on it, getting rid of the git line was a bit harder than expected (apparently nobody hosts this as as a tar.gz file). Also, all my parallel builds of the whole thing fail.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-07 19:38 diana_coman: ave1, any chance you tweak that script so I can at least test it in stages rather than 3-4 hour all-or-nothing thing?
asciilifeform: oh hey ave1
asciilifeform: ave1: how, precisely, do they fail ?
ave1: random point in building gcc
asciilifeform: paste the barf plz ?
ave1: I suspect the ada makefile(s) have a problem with some of the rules
asciilifeform: this will be problematic when this becomes, say, a cuntoo port, where global makeflags will apply and e.g. mine are -j32
ave1: Yes, I was looking into how I could make the flags not apply for specific makefiles
asciilifeform: ( my own ada items, fwiw, build quite fine under arbitrary gcc parallelism )
ave1: These are not modified as far as rules go, just small fixes to make cross-compiling with differently named compilers possible
asciilifeform: ave1: prolly the correct pill is to find where the items are built, and to force correct precedence in the makefile ( i'd bet that currently they are listed on one line )
ave1: It may also be something with the gmake on this machine, an earlier glibc also failed to build in parallel
asciilifeform: stock glibc ?
ave1: Yes, 2.14 (this was to find out if I could make glibc produce smaller statically build outputs)
ave1: I could not
asciilifeform: hmm sounds like a broken os then
ave1: Probably, I will first focus to get the stages building done, that will make it way more easy to debug
ave1: It does have a rudimentary version, but then it re-uses the directories for the next round. Currently, I hope to get this done this week.
ave1: The weather has suddenly gone from 15 degrees celcius /cloudy/raining to over 25 with sun here, so the garden is exploding and needs some serious cutting
trinque: esthlos: ah ok, thought run-program was coming from uiop. sounds like sbcl, cmucl, and ccl would be the desired targets.
trinque: did phf or other lispers have commentary on esthlos' item? ben_vulpes? asciilifeform?
ben_vulpes: i'll give it a read today
asciilifeform: trinque: the vtron ?
trinque: yep, that.
ben_vulpes: i just found my old cl v as well; gonna dust it off for lulz
asciilifeform: not read yet, no
ben_vulpes: whimsy is thiiiick in there
ben_vulpes: esthlos: where do you want input? comments on a-vtron ?
trinque: it's not where he wants input, it's where we want changes
trinque: if any. if not great.
phf: i've skimmed it when it came out and i agree with your feedback. primarily making it self contained, i.e. getting rid of cl-ppcre for parsing (!!1) and needless dependencies like uiop by way of classical (defun run-program (foo bar) #+sbcl (sb-ext:...) #+ccl (ccl:...) #-(or ccl sbcl) (error ...))
mircea_popescu: << ah ok, i was all "look at that, 0 news"
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 14:29 asciilifeform: i'ma grind'em all in 1 batch
mircea_popescu: << minigame would host it ; so would deedbot. you saw the trb build style, specifically (the parts where it goes 'curl > rotor.tar.gz.asc')
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 14:45 ave1: diana_coman,, I'm working on it, getting rid of the git line was a bit harder than expected (apparently nobody hosts this as as a tar.gz file). Also, all my parallel builds of the whole thing fail.
ben_vulpes: esthlos: seems your v doesn't take a head to which to press, but implicitly presses whatever comes out of the toposort; this is incorrect and the operator needs a lever there
mircea_popescu: << we seriously need to get off the ground a service whereby this type of reports (or say bb getting pneumonia) triggers an airplane trip for a few girls eager to do garden cutting in the buff.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 15:05 ave1: The weather has suddenly gone from 15 degrees celcius /cloudy/raining to over 25 with sun here, so the garden is exploding and needs some serious cutting
ben_vulpes: use a tempdir for gnupg's keyring; thing must be stateless.
ben_vulpes: esthlos: ^^
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, didn't realise you got more :p
ben_vulpes: we're adults, can interleave
ben_vulpes: at least i pretend to be
ben_vulpes: esthlos: i would like to see it complain loudly if it finds a bad signature, not merely look for some good ones
ben_vulpes: actually invalid signature in .seals should stop the world, but i don't recall offhand if that's differentiable from the no key for signature case
mircea_popescu: it is, yes, and it should, yes.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the definition isn't "at least one good signature from declared .wot in .seals dir" but "at least one good signature and no bad signatures from declared .wot in .seals dir".
asciilifeform has veeery little patience left for proggies that eggog but do not say precisely where/why
mircea_popescu: there is also that.
ben_vulpes: esthlos: also needs a build script to produce a binary for use outside of a LISP repl; my lisp v implementation ran afoul of this years ago. ~nobody would fire up a lisp repl to test the thing. this may be different today, but the fact remains that for this to make it into widespread use it's going to need to be callable from the linux cli.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, an' if it's different today it has a lot to do with candi_lustt
ben_vulpes: also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
ben_vulpes: form feed?
ben_vulpes: shows up as speshulchar ^L in emacs; i've seen this before in other lispwads written by the github crew and don't really know what to make of it. convention of the ancients? perhaps asciilifeform or phf or someone else who's literate and knows history could enlighten me.
ben_vulpes: that'sallfornow
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i suspect uniturd
phf: it's a page break, historically used to indicate sections, so when you e.g. spool it to printer you get a page break at the end of each section. emacs (but so did zwei) have special keys for handling it at top level
asciilifeform for some reason thought that this was ascii #7, 'ring bell'
ben_vulpes: thx phf
ben_vulpes: aaaaand in oldie-but-guaranteed-to-bring-childish-joy-to-the-face-of-the-rocketry-enthusiast-goodies:
ben_vulpes: goddamn i wanna BLOW SHIT UP
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: loox like a failure , the pigeons -- escaped
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i was saddened that they're apparently in bed with such jews that they can't bring themselves to sink the target ship
ben_vulpes: now i sympathize deeply but the apparent frugality is at such odds with the otherwise liberal combustion of dollars that it induces a painful headache of cognitive dissonance
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: scrap iron is turkey-dollars.
asciilifeform: ( not to mention, they won't use e.g. old aircraft carrier, as target, because gotta maintain 'unsinkable' mythology )
ben_vulpes looking forward to that puncturing
ben_vulpes: in other usg idiocies, i recently found a dood who achieved the not-insignificant feat of a constant propspeed belt-drive GAS ENGINE QUADCOPTER butbutbut the rotor pitch variation mechanism RUNS OVER WIFI
asciilifeform: why the fuck to use belts
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what instead, chain?
asciilifeform: motor-generator
asciilifeform: we had the thread.
ben_vulpes: extra weight from generator.
asciilifeform: you get the fine control n-copter demands, and reasonable efficiency
ben_vulpes: you can get the fine control with mechanical rotor pitch variation as well.
asciilifeform: and the pitch-controllers are massless ?
ben_vulpes: no, but vastly less so than the generator assy. it's a collar around each prop.
asciilifeform: and when you have 17 props ?
asciilifeform: collar, + servos, + cabling , neh
phf: asciilifeform: i suspect there are old school historic reasons for not using own vessels for target practice.
ben_vulpes: constant speed has fundamentally appealing attributes, way lower prop inertia for same power output for one.
asciilifeform: phf: whole 1950s thermonuke test period of usg consisted of it tho.
ben_vulpes: reversible direction for another
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, ^L is page break, very early printer-bound substitute for the later notion of "files"
phf: oh i see
mircea_popescu: back when projects really were in one single file.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's to keep you from reversing electric motor ?
asciilifeform: oh i see
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: prop inertia
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quasi-relatedly, asciilifeform has wondered why engines with favourable cost/mass/thrust that nevertheless aren't great sells in manned vehicles -- namely, peroxide -- haven't made an entrance in quadcopterism
mircea_popescu: << they're actually some of the better hull designs, owing to who made them and when they were made. not unsinkable, by any means, but certainly also not prone to break in half like the clittoral combat sneaker.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 16:07 ben_vulpes looking forward to that puncturing
ben_vulpes: because intellectually lazy americans have outgrown their curiosity, and buy kits to bolt together. "look ma, i r aerospace engineer!"
mircea_popescu: ^ this is why.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: peroxide goes through half-decade-ly popularity cycles, folks discover the cat packs are a pita, move on to propane or other low-dough exotics.
ben_vulpes: anyways, lawnmower engine can lift all that you could possibly want to lift. no need to optimize on this axis.
asciilifeform: whereas for 'disposable' flying machines, that either explode, or make 1way journey ( a la thread ) can use electric engines and zinc-air battery ( that dun need to carry oxidizer )
a111: Logged on 2015-03-28 02:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: pigeons: let's scratch the arithmetic itch. approx. 8400 km from me to b-a. a LiMnO2 (non-rechargeable) battery yields approx. 400 Wh/kg.
mircea_popescu: i would personally really like a metal-miniaturization school. i would like to see not only really tiny machine guns as in ye ancient discussion of anti-fly capable tabletop AA batteries ; but also tiny engines, as in matchbox sized model cars THAT ACTUALLY TAKE FUEL, from the dropper. one drop = full tank. and then go.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lawnmower engine i suspect will have problems at altitude. tho i suppose it depends what you're doing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the true reason "no need to optimize on that axis" is because it's a flying machine that doesn't threaten the usg.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was in fact just such a machinegun -- and engine -- in 1970s su
asciilifeform: bahahaha yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, sure, once. but as a thing, you know ? as a ~school~.
asciilifeform: as a school, iirc it did not take off, requires more clockmaker patience than most can muster
mircea_popescu: anyway -- lawnmower flying machines are slow enough, loud enough, limited enough, targettable enough, undynamic enough and everything else enough that even 1980s tech bound empire can handle them, even "en masse" (they can't mass well either)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, but clockmaking WAS a school, back before the "you can do anything" and "you're perfect the way ytou are" 1789 moment.
asciilifeform: ( small engines also come against intrinsic problems of scale -- surface/vol. ratio makes cooling tricky )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence peroxide, zinc-air cells, other 'it only needs to work for 1hour' trickery, being imho promising
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and observe, clockmaking ~was~. in past tense.
asciilifeform: afaik today ~none remain.
mircea_popescu: well, there's a large pile of veblenizers that make "heirloom" watches. but they're all mechanically made and consequently fundamentally uninteresting. talk about "Accept the form of the argument so as to debate its conclusions" failure mode. somehow nobody told them that if they do move to industrial process, there's no possible argument as to why not quartz.
asciilifeform: right, i meant ~actual~ clockmakers, a la harrison
mircea_popescu: mechanical movements with standardized parts, now THAT is one fucking lulz.
asciilifeform: ( harrison-style craftsmen were able to do things that today seen 'impossible', e.g. lathe work ~without slide~, i.e. with handheld cutter and 0 ruler )
asciilifeform: ^ granted, this was possible because 0 standardized parts. 'cut until it fits'.
mircea_popescu: and the problem isn't even that "it takes a skilled man 5 years to handmake a watch", because half-mn watches would sell and skilled people make less than 100k a year routinely. the problem is rather "are you fucking kidding me, the only way you can find whores is if you find someone to persuade women-on-couches that whoring wouldn't inconvenience their couch-bound lifestyle, wtf handmade clocks. you're lucky if they can be a
mircea_popescu: rsed to open the kibble package on their own and without complaining it's too hard to open."
asciilifeform: the 'half-mn' watch that costs 10bux to make, however , outcompeted the '5 year' one. ( likely because the original notion where clockmaker is used as an ad-hoc orcish 'proof of work', was ill-founded )
asciilifeform: veblenism has ~0 to do with actual quality.
asciilifeform: entirely constructed item, and orthogonal to the physical product ( which does not even need to exist )
mircea_popescu: depends in what market. i suspect the "chilling effect" is far stronger than the actual effect. ie, in a market with demand for 1bn watches and supply for ~100mn (which was the case cca 1940, ftr, take say shadow of a doubt : bank clerk who can support wife and daughters in humongous mansion in desirable californa location (santa rosa) out of his bank clerk job is very proud, and his friends are very envious, when he finally
mircea_popescu: gets a wristwatch) the introduction of the quartz movement resolved the problem, pushing supply to ~infinity bn and therefore demand first to 900mn and eventually to maybe half bn. (i haven't worn a wristwatch in like 20 years, because why.)
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER, the collapse was of 500mn not of 1bn. it did reduce the demand, but not wipe it out entirely.
mircea_popescu: now, the demand for "a watch made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows" was never 0 ; and will never be 0, no matter what happens.
mircea_popescu: and even if it stands to unexamined imagination, "the $5 watch renders the demand for $500`000 watches 0", this is never true. no demand ever reaches actual 0, for very good reasons that have to do with how negative numbers don't exist irl.
asciilifeform: the hilarious bit however is that the watch made 'of dirt and air' and for three cents, keeps better time and is ~indestructible
asciilifeform: the veblenism was strained pretty thin, to survive that one.
mircea_popescu: but this is also irrelevant : local brothel offers much better deal than local wedding chappel in all times and places.
asciilifeform: observe where veblenism ended up going : 1) there exists a $mil phone 2) it consists of ipboje with diamonds glued on.
mircea_popescu: if men can somehow convince themselves women are "people, just like them", they certainly can convince themselves watches are people just like them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i propose this has nothing to do with anything.
asciilifeform: it has to do with the demise of craftsman as a class.
mircea_popescu: ie, the phenomenology of the lost is a product of the loss.
mircea_popescu: this is like proposing that "look where videogame sexualization ended up" in a discussion about modern sexuality. really, what pipe dreams the pipe smokers dream is not a proper basis for argument.
asciilifeform: so how would mircea_popescu put on a theoretical footing, the transition from faberge to 'vertu phone' ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-13 19:34 mircea_popescu: so : the faberge egg, the original, was made in 1885 ; but it was the continuation and in a sense the crowing of a current of thought (ie, culture) and proper civilisation that reached back over a centry.
mircea_popescu: i would not. speaking of actual items, ie watches, it's not the case that every existent demand can be economically exploited. there's also uranium in the ocean etc. speaking of phones, they're not proper items, they are, like say the jet fighter, merely the sign of something somewhere else.
mircea_popescu: trivial to sell vertu phones : make a proper encrypted, nsa-proof network, only allow vertuphones to connect. end of story.
asciilifeform: fried ice.
mircea_popescu: the phone is not an object, you understand this.
asciilifeform: no more than order of lenin is an object, sure
mircea_popescu: the phone is a sort of college degree, meaningless outside the sturcture of meaning that produced it.
asciilifeform: this is true of all veblenoids tho.
mircea_popescu: (in fact, the immense importance of the phone, and the cellphone, in cultural terms, was exactly this : showing skeptics such as yours truly that bottled hallucination doth sell on actual economic grounds.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it is very much not true, no. veblen goods are as i said above, " made out of the sufference of small children and the tears of young virgin widows". it is an item of denial.
mircea_popescu: networked items, such as phones, bank cheques, copyright certificates, college degrees etcetera are made of the ~acceptance of all~, not of the suffering of some.
asciilifeform: in faberge era. in, e.g., modern usgschwitz, it is more often than not, e.g. a polyester tshirt with magical word printed on it.
mircea_popescu: but see, the word printed on it isn't "please! NOT MY DAUGHTER!" in the blood of a double rape and murder victim.
asciilifeform: by this logic, the ultimate veblen product is simply skulls
mircea_popescu: the word printed on it is "toYOta", as in, "would you like to be my friend ? we're both exactly just as empty of anything".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, recall the teeth coin discussion ?
asciilifeform: several possible variations on this theme. but for some reason out of fashion.
mircea_popescu: patriarchy/matriarchy issue.
mircea_popescu: back when the germans still existed as a people, plenty of demand for human skin couches.
asciilifeform: even in fdr's empire. there is a letter preserved, where he thanked a d00d who gifted him iirc a japanese skull
mircea_popescu: but in the degenerate herd that replaced the nation, well... how did that go,
a111: Logged on 2018-05-07 18:20 mircea_popescu: nda Gates Foundation. Was not a whole lot. Less than a mil. I made a decent fortune from bitcoins for no reason. And they are doing some really cool projects for humanity. Love their work. I have been to quite a few of Richard Stallman's talks. But still not inspired enough to care so much about OSS. I like it, but I also understand the argument for not having OSS and making money off it. But you did a good thing there. so co
mircea_popescu: cool projects for humanity!!!
mircea_popescu: the word "project" is not incidental, by the way. hallucinatory world would be all about hallucinations.
asciilifeform: stalin, according to traditional legend, had ashtray from hitler's skull
mircea_popescu: but they call them "projects".
asciilifeform: ( supposedly still exists somewhere )
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a reason veblen goods end up pricey whereas hallucination excreta ends up cheap.
mircea_popescu: the limiting factor on human leather goods is the "strong winds" of ye olde prophete ; the driving force of hallucinatoria is mass acceptance, meaning that the individual item value is actually negative. a phone in the factory costs... -5$. not even zero, below 0. whereas once in "consumer" hands, it's worth whatever, 75 bux.
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that mircea_popescu is thinking strictly of civilization-era veblens ( faberge, lampshades ) to the exclusion of what passes for'em today, under this word
mircea_popescu: so the sale is always a sham, and the "corporate phone" necessarily the underlying support should sales falter.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i don't permit socialist redefinitions of words universally, this is not much discovery.
mircea_popescu: anyway, let me tell you a lulzy story : so the brexit, yes ?
mircea_popescu: now tell me, what is the absolutely ~dumbest~ thing bruxells could have done ?
asciilifeform: dunno... admit the ukrs ?
mircea_popescu: ha. no. they decided they're not going to recognize uk-issued driving licenses on the continent.
asciilifeform had nfi that this existed to begin with
mircea_popescu: to which of course, the brits will respond in kind, predictibly enough -- and here's the capper : the loss to a group of 1mn for rejecting 1k who 1k then reject the 1mn back is... ~999k.
mircea_popescu: ie, having eu licenses admitted in the island is worth about... 40% of the value of the eu license.
mircea_popescu: to trade 40% of the world for 60% of a shitty island... "it profits a man nothing to trade his soul for the whole world... but for walles ?!?!"
asciilifeform: just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform was informed that his usa driving license worx in uruguay. but not for a minute considered 'nao where do i find something to drive..' )
mircea_popescu: so now back to it : idle marketing gimmicks whereby they crust diamonds to a cellphone / put crowns on random selected poor from the socialist horde etc, so as to sell the phones/electoral nonsense w/e they're selling, "it's worth spending your time waiting tables in la, because this one chick we picked gets 10mn a year and so couldn't you (unless of course we arbitrarily and entirely outside of your control pick you)." matte
mircea_popescu: r not one whit in the discussion.
mircea_popescu: you know for a fact that if people ~didn't~ buy cellphones, they'd be forced down their throats via "employer '''bought''' and here it is, wear it".
asciilifeform: i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.
asciilifeform: ( today, not in faberge's time, naturally )
mircea_popescu: that they're idiots enough to buy of own volition (not out of own pocket, not like they own or make money, anyway -- which is why all the discussion re "taxes" is such lulz, what fucking taxes lmao) has no bearing ; and to propose that it's "because" jobbs crusted diamonds to one once and held it over his head is so much logicking with the stones.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, can't be the null set, there's a handcrafted gentoo for instance.
mircea_popescu: << can't rent a car w/o valid driver's license.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 16:56 asciilifeform: just how many tourists drive themselves with own hands, anyway
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: out of curiosity, why rent car in a country where cab ride across town costs a buck ?
mircea_popescu: now i'm confused. england is this shitty island with bad weather and very expensive cabs, you heard of it ?
asciilifeform: england yes
asciilifeform: ok makes sense
mircea_popescu: not many ~tourists~, but to imagine anyone goes to the shithole of the western hemisphere for the ... what was it, for the food ?
mircea_popescu: they got the worst food, worst amenties, worst weather, worst service, most expensive ugly whores and really, every ingrown hair conceivable out of anywhere.
mircea_popescu: hong kong is kramped, but at least the food's mostly edible.
mircea_popescu: have you ever even fucking seen british "real estate" ? it's like the doghouse show!
asciilifeform has not had the 'good fortune' of ever setting foot there
mircea_popescu: i visited in like... 92 i think. and very much liked it ; something that never recurred on subsequent visits. place's an unredeemed shithole.
asciilifeform: what was likable in '92, and where did run off to ?
asciilifeform: *did it
mircea_popescu: like if you took all the canadians, allowed the smater 10% to leave, then plonked them all down in haiti.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, in 92 of interest were items like "hey, check it out, road w/o potholes" and "you can go to shop in X field and they'll either have or produce through specified process any item in field" etcetera. what experience informed by 25 years' research identifies as intolerable food was then merely weird. idiots i can smell from miles away now merely counted as very strange and bizarre people. and so on.
mircea_popescu: it went nowhere, i grew up.
asciilifeform: sorta like asciilifeform&co's usa of '92.
mircea_popescu: i expect. i mean... i was walking through town yesterday, we went by a sign, girly is, "hey, would you like to take their beautification class ? matricula abierta!" and i'm like... "bitch, i probably know more than they do." it's fucking true. and the next item was "manipulacion de alimentos". there I DEFINITELY!!! know more than they do.
mircea_popescu: it's simple enough : no pula! and no mani! in the alimentos!
mircea_popescu: but i didn't know more than they do in ~any and all fields as a wee tyke in 92, now did i. in fact, that's pretty much how i found out.
mircea_popescu: (for the innocent : "don't put your hands or your dick in the food". because to people familiar with latin and its derivatives, "manipulacion de alimentos" sounds 100% like the wrong approach to handling food.)
asciilifeform asciilifeform recalls father's tale re the great bulgarian freighter, the 'pula', that had to be repainted when sent to constanta...
mircea_popescu: hey, mr hui didn't do so well as an envoy to kishinev either.
asciilifeform: ( oblig vysotskiy: '...И ведь, главное, знаю отлично я, / Как они произносятся, - / Но чтой-то весьма неприличное / На язык ко мне просится : / Хун-вэй-бины...' ( ) )
asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g.
mircea_popescu: a yeah, whatever happened to him
asciilifeform: apparently still collectin' clocks an' such.
mircea_popescu: i suppose he's the exact item that drove lenin up the wall and resulted in the eventual rape of the "kulak" : comfortable people will politely listen, perhaps, but why bother ?
ben_vulpes: and in methinks the democrat doth protest too much news, another meetooist has been getting slappy in bed:
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, did they ever sit down and write the "manual of use" or is their usage of "abuse" still just as spurious as it was when they started whining about it ?
ben_vulpes: "manual of use is how i use women!"
asciilifeform: hey we're discussing the same savages whose supreme court judge famously 'i know it when i see it!'
asciilifeform: so what manual.
asciilifeform: next to ask for manual of not-being-a-witch.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm none too interested in the specifics; i'm more interested in/amused by the long-predicted continually-lowering-bar-to-defrockment tearing the pantsuit organizations apart from the top.,
ben_vulpes: and lo, isn't it interesting that as the barrier for lordship goes up and the bar for defrocking goes down, the pantsuit imitate to their detriment while the republic purges dross?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i dun see the 'tearing apart', afaik it's classical purge-and-replace-with-politruk
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, indeed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, but they're replacing politruks lol.
asciilifeform: with, presumably, more responsive marionettes, neh
mircea_popescu: it is not possible, and for hard reasons.
mircea_popescu: that's the point of : that it is not ~POSSIBLE~ to act meaningfully in socialism.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: believable political careers take time to fabricate. schniederman mighta been a someone in some other context, but what's his replacement? another "first $minoritygroup to NYAG"? even diehard leftists are not so bullish on firsts after the first black man to run the show gleefully doubletapped weddings for his entire stay in the whitehouse.
asciilifeform: in my head i mapped , e.g., the weinstein thing, to the sov replacement of e.g. old factory owner, with moscow-appointee director
asciilifeform: possibly this ain't it, i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, what's doubletapped weddings here ?!
ben_vulpes: where you bomb a wedding and then bomb it again when the women and children rush back in screaming to pull their husbands and sons from the carnage
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, yes, but your mapping is incorrect. soviets had a lot of pre-existing fat to burn down in 1920s lulzfest. usg arguably had same in the 70s, when they started with "rights for wife in divorce and woman in workplace" nonsense. it's been half a century, there's nothing left to eat in the great empire of yore.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, oh oh. for a moment i thought big black man had as much dick as nero, went and fucked husband and wife for a wedding blessing.
ben_vulpes: $oblig-rhino-photo
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fight over remnants of old infrastructure, esp. still-operating chumpatrons (hollywood etc) i expect will continue for many years
asciilifeform: sorta how roman mosaics continued to decorate sword hilts long past expiration date of western empire
mircea_popescu: there's really nothing left.
asciilifeform: the folx fighting over the scraps evidently disagree.
mircea_popescu: all that remains is the "not rock boat" struggle so as china continues to drop the pellet in the beautiful ones' cage.
mircea_popescu: there aren't any scraps, the whole thing is under glass and someone drops glucose.
mircea_popescu: so no, it's very much not "first, we behead the owner, keep the young aspirant manager director / fucker of owner's daughter against owner's will ; THEN we behead him, once we've trained a working class successor ; THEN we behead successor, put in politruk" cycle of nazi (and then COPIED, lifted wholesale by soviets, like everything else).
mircea_popescu: it's a "i wonder which of these idle fucks would our overlords think is a best incarnation of their batshit notion of aryan".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: copied how, with time machine ?
mircea_popescu: that's why nyt jewry is so eager to "fight with russia", has no mention of china whatsoever. they figure that's what china'd like to see.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no, if you look at the history, the soviets were doing it ~after~ zee germans.
mircea_popescu: not much after. but the methodology is strictly fascist.
asciilifeform: by '34 su had already cranked through 2-3 turns of the cycle
asciilifeform: unless we're thinking of different things
mircea_popescu: i r disagree. take the history of say... eh what the fuck is zee jewish german family with the radios ? i'm sure i put it in the logs, albert or albrecht or something
mircea_popescu: of course now i can't fucking find it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, dramatized in "cabaret" (the thing with liza minelli in it, with the "tomorrow belongs to me" hurr)
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet was just not long ago singing it, lol
asciilifeform: ( with the correct gesticulation, even )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-23 16:55 mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of not-as-dumb-as-average jews, hermann fambly, owners of radio works in berlin, sold 1935 and split.
mircea_popescu: Aron Elektrizitäts-Ges.mbH bzw
mircea_popescu: guys came up with the electricity meter iirc.
asciilifeform: meter existed in edison's time
asciilifeform: so gotta be something else
mircea_popescu: well not the edison one ; the one used nowadays.
asciilifeform: iirc edison's sucked, it had a dissolving tab that had to be swapped
mircea_popescu: look it up, hermann aron fellow, was a sort of german heaviside
asciilifeform: ( insert here the customary asciilifeform thread re 'microshit is philosophical continuation of edison' )
asciilifeform: hmm i seem to recall the aron thread nao
asciilifeform: but i still dun grasp the argument . in su ~similar process went through its cycle in the '20s. and then -- germany.
mircea_popescu: now, the soviets did a bunch of butchering, indiscriminate and nonsensical, 1916-1926 or so ; but under italian intellectual pressure the germans realised and structured the effort, and then the soviets copied in a year or two.
asciilifeform: so contention here is re '37-38 purge ?
mircea_popescu: this isn't some kind of argument in the line of "russki orcs" ; in point of fact tanks led strategies were invented by russians ; but copied and employed at first by zee germans.
asciilifeform: [insert here tiger vs 34 thread]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, contention here is the structuring of activity as theoretically summarized, it's not driven by events but by the need to produce the structure trees needed by indefinitely scalalable summaries.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, nah, see, the ~doctrine~ of tank-driven war was theoretically produced, as a necessary logical step, by russian staff, including a young zhukov. but the russian industry lacked the means to make the needed items.
mircea_popescu: the german -- didn't lack ; and in the upheaval, the political barriers to innovation turned out to be also weak. so they made.
asciilifeform wonders why modern students read guderian, but (typically) not zhukov
mircea_popescu: because stalin was an idiot.
asciilifeform: i suspect that if had had been slightly smarter, along the axis contemplated here, he would prolly be remembered as just another purged d00d, along with tuhachevsky
mircea_popescu: possibly, sure.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine zhukov purging him, but then again my imagination isn't the arbiter of history.
mircea_popescu: also, though, not being purged isn't the end all be all summum bonum.
mircea_popescu: the idea is to not get purged by idiots, not to not get purged in general. zhukov thinks he can be a better stalin than stalin, what's stalin's objective incentive to get in the way ? fucking let him.
asciilifeform: the folx who 'let' , prolly existed, but we will not know who they were.
mircea_popescu: sure, we do. cincinnatus, rite ?
asciilifeform: rite, him
asciilifeform: can count them on fingers.
mircea_popescu: so what's wrong with fingers, now.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, what's wrong with you not knowing who they were.
mircea_popescu: ask god when your time comes, who they were. just as soon he's done with explaining turbulent flow he'll explain history to you, too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i tell you though, the sad situation where all that's left to gather around your piss-soaked body is beria, hruschev, malenkov etcetera...
mircea_popescu: i can't figure how it'd be worth anyone's time.
mircea_popescu: and in today's dollop of hysterical lulz : manages to go through 10k words without even mentioning the nevzorov sisters, coincidentally the reason the fuckbuddy of some old imperial chick even got to be stalin's successor.
asciilifeform: lol readmoar engl pediwikia!11
asciilifeform: i'd expect it similarly shines across the board
mircea_popescu: the repository of collective knowledge, right ? uuga-booga.
mircea_popescu: anyway. would ~you~ want valy golubtsova's bf in the fucking room even ? fucktard was so stupid i have doubts he could even add on his own power.
mircea_popescu: in short -- stalin didn't have it so well, to the degree being purged is not directly nor obviously a worse fate.
asciilifeform: d00d died and left, literally, a coupla old shirts. but he wasn't 'in it for the living well', afaik simply enjoyed 'playing civ1'
mircea_popescu: i... guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 404
mircea_popescu: she, somehow, is not HEROINE OF FEMINISM.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding she has 100% of the cv bullet points that recommended HEROINE OF FEMINISM pantsuited hilarity for a run at the presidency.
mircea_popescu: even promoted a fucktard with her own ass. literally.
mircea_popescu: (apparently some guy collected and translated to english the litany of yehzov confessions.)
mircea_popescu: grover furr's page ( ) more universally interesting than just soviet early history, at that.
asciilifeform tries to read original, manually guesses encoding, and very 1st word is the canonical бНОПНЯ ..!
asciilifeform: !#s бНОПНЯ
asciilifeform: ( spoiler: it's 1251, not koi8 )
mircea_popescu: <title>��������� �.�. ����� 1939</title>
mircea_popescu: "I term these sources "semi-official" since they are quoted unproblematically by all the anticommunist scholars. These scholars ignore them almost completely, and ignore their implications completely, but they do not consider the documents false."
mircea_popescu: turns out the learned distrust and ample spite for "scientists", "researchers", "academics" and other indistinct products of the bologna system is strictly universal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why, out of curiosity, 'bologna system'
asciilifeform: in re ezhov's confessions, i have no particular structure on which to hang the post-sov 'canonical' interpretation where they're 'scripted and 100% rubbish'
asciilifeform: afaik , ~100% of the claimed 'how i organized failed coup' detail is , by itself, plausible.
BingoBoingo: Still alive, weather today is humid with a side of SMOG!
asciilifeform: ohai BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: I hate these people so very much
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
asciilifeform: keep in mind that there is not currently a simple knob to display ~solely~ those mods that will pop from this run.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what have they done nao?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Went to the Department of Identity today. Stood in three seperate lines waiting to be called. The result was a piece of paper I have to bring back next week to actually get the cedula.
BingoBoingo: An hour and a half of waiting.
asciilifeform: i thought this was the expected output ?
BingoBoingo: The operational aspect that burnedd an hour and a half was maliciously malcnstructed.
asciilifeform: sounds quite like 'dmv' back home, neh
BingoBoingo: The last longest wait was 45 minutes, AFTER the photo et al. To get the come back next week paper.
BingoBoingo: And the air today has far too much humidity and not enough oxygen
asciilifeform definitely had some 'how do they breathe here' episodes in BingoBoingostan.
BingoBoingo: I'd really like the chance to try a desert next if I survive this place.
asciilifeform: kazahstan is waiting...
asciilifeform admits that he would also muchly prefer desert; humid hell over here also
BingoBoingo: I was thinking more Chile or Mexico
mod6: santiago?
asciilifeform: chile got, iirc, no fiber
mod6: ah
BingoBoingo: Maybe next place doesn't need great fiber?
asciilifeform: what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
BingoBoingo: dial up?
BingoBoingo: Run new fiber?
BingoBoingo: Herd goats?
asciilifeform: ah if goat retirement, then sure
asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo being brought the year's new blocks, on cdrom, on camel
BingoBoingo: Alpaca
BingoBoingo: And to top it all off, as much as my walking speed has slowed today, THEY STILL WON'T STOP STOPPING
ben_vulpes: gotta see into the future, know which will stop and not be behind them
ben_vulpes: protip: it's all of them
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, the thing i liked most about expedition to BingoBoingo , and miss the most today : having worthwhile places to walk to
BingoBoingo: Having places to walk to is fine. Having bipedal pollution constantly interupting the journey there...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << notbad, and pretty much exactly the conclusion asciilifeform drew from the $sources , yrs ago
asciilifeform: 'Why do the anticommunist "scholars", both in Russia and the West, ignore all this evidence? Why do they continue to promote the false notions that no conspiracies existed and that Stalin, not Ezhov, decided to execute hundreds of thousands of innocent people? The only possible explanation is that they do this for ideological reasons alone. The truth, as established by an examination of the primary source evidence, would make Stalin
asciilifeform: and the Bolsheviks "look good" to most people.' etc
mircea_popescu: "scholarship" in english, on any topics whatsoever, is a thin calico indeed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, "bologna system" because of the name of the cheap salami. seems perfectly adequate.
mircea_popescu: it's also the moment oxford fell off my map.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re confession, the "I think it essential that I inform the investigation of a series of new facts concerning my moral-personal dissoluteness. I mean my longtime vice of homosexuality." part is, at the very least, truthful as far as anyone knows (and corroborated, histortically)
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 20:44 asciilifeform: what does BingoBoingo intend to do in the place without great fiber ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-24 15:22 mircea_popescu: show sorrentino how it's done.
BingoBoingo: Also think of all the confusion to result if the next BingoBoingo move ends up rolling Paraguay
deedbot: << Qntra - Acid Attacks Growing As A Cornerstone of New Ingsoc Culture
BingoBoingo uploads pictures from Today's adventure
BingoBoingo: !!up pete_dushenski
deedbot: pete_dushenski voiced for 30 minutes.
pete_dushenski: time flies when you're, well, kulaking
BingoBoingo: It happens
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 17:17 asciilifeform went to dig for pete_dushenski's veblenism-clocks article, found that he is ~still~ writing'em, e.g.
pete_dushenski: even though contravex doesn't pop up here anymore, i get a kick out of the fact that it's still mostly #t'ers and former #t'ers who comment there. i guess this place still is the ballsiest nook of the net no matter what.
BingoBoingo: Well, we will still be here when the kids are done raising you.
pete_dushenski: heh. my goal is to beat them in every sport until they're bar mitzvah'd, by which point they'll be little men and i should be well and retire-ready.
BingoBoingo almost done notating pictures
pete_dushenski: i could see all of #t in south america by that point too
BingoBoingo: Maybe by that point Africa?
pete_dushenski: what's africa got that south america doesn't, other than aids ?
BingoBoingo: Biofuel!
pete_dushenski: possibru
mircea_popescu: speaking of pictures, hey asciilifeform ! where's your travelog!
pete_dushenski: couldn't find this in the logs (so apologies if it's a repost) but holy shit is usg.btc scraping the bottom of the barrel if fatso karpeles is being resurrected as "cto" of privateinternetaccess (vpn)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski, ajhajhahah. epic.
pete_dushenski is still waiting for asciilifeform travelog of romania, and giveaway book list...
a111: Logged on 2016-10-04 14:19 mircea_popescu: and in other fucking nonsense, freenode has decided to redirect ALL inbound links to its most recent web page, to advertise to the world, ie the nsa front ; and their derpitude in support of "resurrecting tor". this of course includes all old manual pages and everything else.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: fatso even lost like 20 kilos in prison, so less-fatso now!
mircea_popescu: but did he know you can put mac and cheese on a pizza and it'd taste assewome!
pete_dushenski: lol he'll figure that out the day after he figures out that being "rich" means that you don't have to beg for jobs and "second chances"
mircea_popescu: anyway, even that cockpuppet keiser is back "opining" on prices and matters. because is 4 years ago so everyone magically forgot it.
pete_dushenski: so many experts, so little expertise
pete_dushenski: just finished reading "NYT #1" (aren't they all) book by yuval harari - homo deus - in which this ~historian~ goes on and on about ai taking ur jerbs, magick biotech pills that will turn us into supermen, and other technodystopianist nonsense. had dude shut up after first 2/3rds of the book and stuck with the history of human technological progress
pete_dushenski: , it would've been a winner. but no, he had had to usg.gavin all over the place and draw dumb straight lines into infinity.
mircea_popescu: << should be interesting to see how all the computing, fabrication, rocketry, mining etc threads converge into actual geointerdicted republican-only zone.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-09 00:11 BingoBoingo: Maybe by that point Africa?
pete_dushenski: doesn't that defeat the advantage of decentralisation ? or are you thinking many such zones ?
mircea_popescu: by the time our automated batteries defend our own mining bots and nobody else can even be online unless they're doing what told, "decentralisation" per se is a rather meaningless concept.
mircea_popescu: decentralization is only meaningful in a structure which permits centrality.
mircea_popescu: much like whining to mommy works in the middle class "atomic family" not in the orphanage.
pete_dushenski: by that time there will also be a handful of accepted definitions of "online", none intersecting.
pete_dushenski: as there increasingly are even today, i suppose
mircea_popescu: for instance -- the us army thinks itself online ; a ridiculous claim.
pete_dushenski: lol right. they're online like fortnite is online
pete_dushenski: << fwiw i have no plans to take the bot directory down
a111: Logged on 2018-04-04 05:42 lobbes: not sure if pete_dushenski is ever coming around again or what, so I went ahead and created a page for the tsmr bot directory:
pete_dushenski: it's still getting a small and hopefully useful amount of traffic
mircea_popescu: so how do you update it ?
pete_dushenski: i still check for my name in the logs a couple times a week so that's one. another is comment somewhere on contravex or e-mail.
pete_dushenski: off for now, cheers #t!
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell pete_dushenski I forgot to ask... Did you want to rack a time standard of some sort with Pizarro? A lot are already 19in 1U rackmount. Can plug it into a rockchip.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: aaaand the jurov keyz are in.
asciilifeform: nobody said anything re so i'ma fire it nao
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 20:33 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, jurov collection expected to be fully eaten in 3-4 hrs. mircea_popescu , trinque , if you feel like switching on phuctor-deedbot-ticker prior to the 7mil keys being crunched, lemme know. ( if not , also say, then i'ma run it without waiting )
asciilifeform: << last snapshot prior to firing
esthlos: trinque mircea_popescu phf ben_vulpes mircea_popescu et al:
trinque: esthlos: ah neato. I need to get you into the RSS list.
esthlos: << I'm using tabs as 4 spaces, and I see the code as <80 col. what's your set up?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-08 15:47 ben_vulpes: also esthlos what's with the linefeeds and extreeeeemely wide codeformatting?
esthlos: trinque: that would be cool
trinque tends to think tabs are ill-suited to lisp
esthlos: trinque: why's that?
trinque: the syntax looks like shit the moment two items at the same level in the AST don't line up
esthlos: very true. have you tried smart tabs?
trinque: baking in an emacsism is another unnecessary dep imho
trinque uses, and practically lives in emacs, yet holds this opinion.
asciilifeform: esthlos: is there a particular reason you stuffed it in a tgz, rather than to leave it web-readable ?
esthlos: asciilifeform: afaik I haven't. what link are you using?
asciilifeform: i hallucinated it
esthlos: huh
asciilifeform: was using shitbrowser that refused to display a .lisp
esthlos: mine does as well
asciilifeform: and ugh this is not readable
trinque: eventually, of course, thing needs to be a genesis vpatch
asciilifeform: massive islands of inexplicable whitespace mid-lines
esthlos: ok, I can fix it in 2 min. sec
asciilifeform: and from where came the dependency on cl-ppcre ?
trinque: asciilifeform: already addressed in his thing there
trinque: pretty well organized
trinque: anyhow esthlos most folks here (I assume) slam their lisp code through a formatter at each return, or similar
trinque has been using this aggressive-indent thing for a bit, does at each press
esthlos: asciilifeform: removed indents, try now
esthlos: I had a ton of lag with that thing, but was on crappy lappy I suppose
asciilifeform: muchbetter, ty
asciilifeform: trinque: i also use slime with aggression, yes
asciilifeform: ( and not only for lisp )
asciilifeform: err, aggressive indent, in general
trinque uses whole computer with aggression
esthlos: lol
esthlos: I saw xah fellow here at some point
asciilifeform: esthlos: i wrote to him and he actually showed up. but didn't stick, apparently he prefers the sad loner life
mircea_popescu: would have been so fucking sweet if we didn't have to say that about fucking emacs, and tex.
asciilifeform: in other noose, phuctor-werker nao occupies 112G at peak.
mircea_popescu: what was that box, 256g ?
asciilifeform: roughly speaking, the data set can double in mass one more time, before asciilifeform has to ask for a mechanical disk to be fitted to dulap ( writing 256+GB/day will annihilate ssd in a coupla months ) and get used to much slower run
asciilifeform: and before anybody asks, no room for moar, nor are opteron boxes where moar fits, easily obtainable
mircea_popescu: eh, ssd disks aren't that expensive. this doubles as an effective ssd tester bed.
asciilifeform: getting them to the orbit is expensive.
asciilifeform: and they will fail in sync, whole raid at once, i suspect.
mircea_popescu: so change half mid-term.
deedbot: << esthlos - Setting up mp-wp
deedbot: << esthlos - A Brief Overview of Eucrypt's MPI Library
deedbot: << esthlos - esthlos-v Version 2
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is the plan. but gotta know what 'term' is.
mircea_popescu: and expensive or not, there's not yuet been nor will there ever be an isp without pile of ssds.
mircea_popescu: it's like doctor's office without latex gloves
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, stagger anyway, take some out 6 weeks in, whatever.
asciilifeform: right, i do this here.
asciilifeform: ( the box i'm sitting on just this minute, actually staggered over whole year )
mircea_popescu: it's that paredit violates fundamental principle, that it encourages and enforces the work flow of manual formatting on every line. << ftr, i think he has an excellent point.
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