Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-12-23 | 2017-12-25 →
phf: asciilifeform: your blog renderer throws a space after < in -- Less-Than part (which is not in the patch)
phf: b579b2c553ee2bd3aee8d17d96ae259abfad2ac5 (sha1 of my solution for ascii's puzzle)
asciilifeform: congrats to phf , the 1st winner of ch4 puzzler.
asciilifeform: << the wp 'code' plugin is massive headache, i've been fighting it since ch1 . ( e.g in ch4 i had to replace the " in ('"') with a similar-looking uniturd, because double-escape is apparently impossible )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 06:43 phf: asciilifeform: your blog renderer throws a space after < in -- Less-Than part (which is not in the patch)
asciilifeform: ^ this in re: to the ~www~ text strictly !!
asciilifeform: ( i.e. nothing ~inside~ the vpatch, suffers )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 04:51 mircea_popescu: then once that's established "fish in the sad patches bin" can go into the "how to participate" list
asciilifeform: in other noose, 'aggression' patch is apparently ~the~ pill against what ailed zoolag; 482253 -> 484621 in ~12hr , previously that was 3-4 day's worth
asciilifeform: ( naturally , this is not a Troo Rigorous test. that'd go as i described, 2 identical, save for 'aggression', boxen, on 2 identical pipes )
asciilifeform: the current test on zoolag, however, is mighty interesting: after floundering in a sea of prb for ~hour, thing's been loading blocks almost continuously. at this rate will actually sync in a week or so.
shinohai: I fully intend to report on my results with patch after all this holiday nonsense is over.
shinohai: Why have I never seen this gem before? "Woz U provides a personalized approach to coding and tech education designed to get you through the curriculum faster so that you can get into the workforce quicker, and start changing the world."
mircea_popescu: << mp-wp does ('"') natively, of course.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 14:46 asciilifeform: << the wp 'code' plugin is massive headache, i've been fighting it since ch1 . ( e.g in ch4 i had to replace the " in ('"') with a similar-looking uniturd, because double-escape is apparently impossible )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this one isn't a wp problem per se, it's interaction b/w wp and the colorizer thing
asciilifeform: took a bit of massage to get it to stop mutilating >, <, &
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what did you use for say & ? replaced with &#38 ? in which case does &#34 work for " ?
mircea_popescu: phf's codepoint idea is powerful indeed.
asciilifeform: < , <, & , did not have to uniturd, there are ready-made escapes for these
asciilifeform: i'ma prolly have to rewrite the code-formatter plugin thing, it insists on autoprocessing to emplace the escapes, but does not do ~mismatched~ double-quotes
asciilifeform: the as-is incurably kills it, because unpaired quote.
asciilifeform: ( being a code formatter, it naively insists on colouring the inside of the double-quotes... )
mircea_popescu: better escape everything than special-escape some and then be stranded.
asciilifeform: author, apparently, did not give it any ability to distinguish 'standalone double-quote because actually need it' from 'idjit user forgot to close the " '
asciilifeform: well how would it dwim. gotta offer an explicit escape. and the thing, apparently, doesn't.
asciilifeform: ( and can't simply use the html escape notation, because it gets literalized by the code-formatter )
mircea_popescu: this is a fine example of why modularization sucks.
asciilifeform: it is theoretically possible to write a correct module, but prolly not by homo-phpicus.
mircea_popescu: or rather, ad-hoc modularization, in point of fact yet another necessarily failed attempt to go out of
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
mircea_popescu: "the linux way" works for as long as.
mircea_popescu: correct module shall be written under the whip and in no other place.
asciilifeform: whip has curative power but apparently wasn't enuff for, e.g., microshit
mircea_popescu: eh, scensters don't count.
mircea_popescu: they have this in bdsm too, you know, rabid idiots doing "scenes", where they pretend like they're doing it.
asciilifeform: cargocultism?
mircea_popescu: authentic fear in the sweat and authentic blood on the instruments or no dice.
mircea_popescu: well, in typical manner of usgtronic cargocultism, they pretend to themselves as a captive audience that they've embraced&extended successfully.
mircea_popescu: but hey, by now the stuff of "bitcoin is backed by nothing, stick to dollars" is well stale i'd guess.
asciilifeform often tries to picture what kind of software would have been written under stalin, if there had been on-what
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sure stalin was capable. you see, the buffett mind, "i'm a smart conservative peasant", which seems to my eyes to be what stalin (or for that matter ro hatman) was struggling towards dun work for conceptual worlds.
mircea_popescu: because there's not so much conceptual within peasant ancestral experience.
asciilifeform: it's a stretch, conceptually, sure
mircea_popescu: hatman HAD on what with. missed out on what TO.
asciilifeform: but i did say ~under~ stalin, not 'by'
mircea_popescu: there is no under that's not an extension of by.
mircea_popescu: this follows from the definition of terms, if you manage to find a domain outside of the view of the whip therefore you escaped.
asciilifeform: kurchatov was able to work in conceptual sphere, and not only without interference but with offer of 'tell us who is getting in the way, he'll be gone next morning'
asciilifeform: and very muchly under stalin.
mircea_popescu: which isn't nearly as fortunate a happy occurence as the fantasy-mind imagines from within ; but anyway
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that ; but not reliably, hence soviet alt-genetics.
asciilifeform: there was a specific conversation, legendarily:
asciilifeform: stalin summoned kurchatov to the throne room, and described to him 'we're gonna have a cleanup, in physics, like in genetics, what do you think'
asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
asciilifeform: s replied 'bomb'
mircea_popescu: smart man. do you see however how this is STRICTLY equivalent to slavegirl going "master, this spot, this spot doesn't hurt like the others, hit it harder."
asciilifeform: then next wk 'tell us who is trying to be philosophical, and getting in the way...'
mircea_popescu: ie, deliberately contrived to extend whip reach for herself.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha. sorta why i retell it nao.
asciilifeform: it pertains.
mircea_popescu: this only works with extreme purists.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the fantasy-mind. "wouldn't chocolate be better ?"
asciilifeform: it also only works where you have a throne room. would do 0 against a fungus.
asciilifeform: kurchatov could strike a gentleman's understanding with stalin. but would have 'snowball's chance in hell' against a committee.
mircea_popescu: no, committee is very strictly dedicated to failing on the h bomb or anything else.
mircea_popescu: it is an outgrowth of socialist fantasy, specifically constructed to deliver on the constructed impotence of socialism.
mircea_popescu: there's some log discussion of why nothing must ever happen.
asciilifeform: from pov of committee chair-warmer, 'something happening' is as desirable as an out-of-ordinary day at nuke power station
mircea_popescu: apparently i can't find that discussion now.
mircea_popescu: i've engineered hell for myself here, "it's either in the log or on the blog" yes tyvm
asciilifeform: !#s from:mircea_popescu nothing happen
a111: 40 results for "from:mircea_popescu nothing happen",
asciilifeform: ^ recurring thread
mircea_popescu: yes, but this isn't it ; i'd have thought it'd have ecology in it because i recall the link being made, but also no dice.
asciilifeform: there remains the possibility that it was not, yet, in the l0gz...
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 19:27 mircea_popescu: that is after all the point, neh, to somehow get as large a headcount as possible through the various gates (born, college, credit cards, mortgage, retirement hgome etc) WITHOUT "harming the environment" which in any practical sesne means... without changing anything.
mircea_popescu: this is the "day at nuke power station". and "boys will be boys" ie someone ACTUALLY DOING something is exactly the worst fucking nightmare.
mircea_popescu: all-girl school best. like they saw in africa.
asciilifeform: see also :
asciilifeform: !#s societal security
a111: 3 results for "societal security",
a111: Logged on 2016-04-11 17:05 asciilifeform: they have a phrase they use amongst themselves, 'societal security'.
mircea_popescu: legendarily, ceausescu visited best korea at some point, came back inspired with "Great Juche-like Ideas" [evidently claimed as independent, because all peasants are mormon smith] ;
asciilifeform: well-known episode aha
mircea_popescu: factually, however, ustardian pantsuit visited africa [the nation of~] where they discovered that all-girl classes are a lot easier for the local subtards to handle than mixed classes they had at home
mircea_popescu: (because who are the writer-in-ny fantasies foolong, 100% of pantsuit were going into teaching)
mircea_popescu: and so decided to...
mircea_popescu: matches observed experience perfectly -- suddenly ghetto empty of males. then... "manspreading".
mircea_popescu: heck, they were even bitching about how euro cyclotron MIGHT ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, recall ?
mircea_popescu: "higgs boson will end the world!!!"
mircea_popescu: 100% africanism, and it's what the "peace corps" was for
mircea_popescu: in the end it might turn out that vhs-america aborted itself because it listened to a bunch of mediocre women that just wanted an easy time teaching highschool ; but couldn't come out with it because puritan perversion.
mircea_popescu: this is like better aids. meme-aids.
mircea_popescu: the part where "africa had no men BECAUSE IT FUCKING SUCKED" somehow escaped notice. fancy that wonder,
asciilifeform: ( unrelatedly, but before i fughet, observation : i.e. bastardry handler, is unproductive because it asks 'fill in what we're missing', but 99 out of 100 shots, that's ~another~ bastard. really instead it ought to either 1) send a normal pushgetblocks() to the bastard-emitter , asking him for the ~one and only block we won't reject~, it being the immediately-next-one-after-our-topheight , or
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 15:07 asciilifeform: // Ask this guy to fill in what we're missing
asciilifeform: , 2 ) disconnect from him )
mircea_popescu: especially 2 after 1 fails
asciilifeform: this'd matter moar in practice if 'aggressive' node saw many bastards . but it now sees very few, because immediately pushgetblocks() when it gets visited.
asciilifeform: thing's been purring along, incidentally, at almost 100% blockverificationdutycycle, for most of a day nao.
asciilifeform: almost like it were 2012 again...
mircea_popescu: problem is the tip
asciilifeform: in ~1wk i expect to learn how it behaves at tip.
asciilifeform: ( supposing ben_vulpes et al , dun report sooner )
asciilifeform: ... as mircea_popescu prolly intuited , it remains possible that 'aggression' takes the trb<->prb link breakage from , say, the 80% of before, to 100% , and i would not learn about it until reaching tip.
mircea_popescu: i don't see any change in behaviour. the prb node will produce ~same % of blocks with or without.
asciilifeform: and speaking of this, can haz patch that logs ~from what kind of node~ each ACCEPTED block came ? ( or do i have to do errything meself..? )
mircea_popescu: and in the end you only get the blocks they give.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, idea being that it is conceivable that 'aggression' increases isolation . i cannot yet rule it out.
mircea_popescu: to soon to see. dun seem like it so far.
mircea_popescu: hard to outdo malleus for that purpose anyway
asciilifeform: well right nao it's pulling blox from other trb's, at ~100% efficiency
mircea_popescu: trb dun get malleus'd anyway
asciilifeform: exactly like what an unpatched trb does for first hour or three of boot
mircea_popescu: but yes, within-republic it's a major improvement.
mircea_popescu: and evidently an improvement whose time had come.
asciilifeform: it is possible that it will improve block reception at the expense of outgoing tx propagation.
asciilifeform: ( and may have to be turned into a toggle knob )
mircea_popescu: "early boost" sorta thing
asciilifeform: ... it is equally conceivable that the thing is a pure win, and dun need to become a knob. we'll see.
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque what do you recommend for a talking-in-chan bot-tron ? i'd like to hook up 'ffacalc'...
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with the bot he published
mircea_popescu: iirc hanbot was using it to do something trilema-related, sounded happy with it.
asciilifeform: nothing, took me a minute or so to recall that indeed it is posted
asciilifeform: now only remains to plug it in
asciilifeform: and i'll add that if somebody other than asciilifeform feels like doing this operation, i will take off my hat
asciilifeform: ( i recommend bolting the width in place to 256 , to keep lines short )
asciilifeform: ( ... at least until operation 'X' , i.e. mod-exp, is defined ! )
asciilifeform: hey mircea_popescu , was q ever resolved ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-07 23:12 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu at the time said that the thing really oughta eat a programmable set of checkpoint
mircea_popescu: <<->> an' so on. primary function of language, finches have it.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 04:03 trinque: same idiots that all type "h" to each other, line noise for brain.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-16 11:07 mircea_popescu: which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not afaik.
mircea_popescu: but honestly i'd prioritize db-fix-and-trb-split discussed over these rather cosmetic by comparison improvements.
asciilifeform: because there's a possibility of speeding sync 100-200x... ( the obvious way. if block sha512's, or keccak's, etc. to a checksum-cum-heighposition that is signed by node owner's l1 -- then ACCEPT )
mircea_popescu: something small and desperately needed like better logs i can see ; but by now you're talking painting walls and such
asciilifeform: not quite cosmetic, this. potentially massive speedup .
asciilifeform: as in , stand up new node in 1wk, instead of 3-4 months.
mircea_popescu: yes yes. but on the proper basis
asciilifeform: it ain't a substitute for the cut-up, no.
mircea_popescu: and you don't want to end up with a split code branch
mircea_popescu: because it will cost someone's time to reconcile.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, v-tronization of blockchain is unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, the replacement-pistols will simply be a patch set.
mircea_popescu: and no more of this "monotonously growing" nonsense. whole item as large as will ever be is given at onset.
mircea_popescu: allocate it all now ; if you can't afford to make smaller coinbase.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to elaborate re 'as large as will be'
mircea_popescu: "new bitcoin has 1mn coins ; which can not be split ; to move a coin from nill address to your address you must [...] ; to move a coin from x address to y address you must [...]".
mircea_popescu: the whole field array-addresable, "coin #58045 is at... offset... 58045. duh."
asciilifeform: this is exactly the picture asciilifeform drew last yr, aha.
asciilifeform: ( for some reason everybody always asks 'how'll you pass out the coins', but this is orthogonal problem! )
mircea_popescu: nobody asks this ; but anyway, if bitcoin prototyping is any guide, 1kb per entry should suffice ; in which case current computing could in principle actually support a coinset between 1mn and 1bn coins.
mircea_popescu: (way way WAY worse than original optimistic estimates of "21mn divisible to 1e8". but what can you do.)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 05:56 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am very curious in how you figure initial distribution might work
mircea_popescu: anyway, evidently the first [...] stands for what's currently termed "mining" while the second for actual spending.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform's answer is 'first you pillage , ~then~ you burn, fughetabout it for the time being, have an algo for the basic mechanics that makes sense, first ! )
asciilifeform: and yes.
mircea_popescu: so if nothing else, you can bootstrap it exactly like bitcoin did.
mircea_popescu: "want coins -- go mine."
mircea_popescu: scheme as described ftr works eminently well with in that "proof of knowing the txset" becomes meaningful past what's going on now
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 16:22 mircea_popescu: anwyay, revisiting an ancient conversation re : i have to thoroughly concede this point to asciilifeform . the model is as follows : if a) a PoW system exists in which b) a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others then it NECESSARILY follow that entity can, and therefore it ALSO follows that it eventually will c) impose further con
asciilifeform: which is retarded.
mircea_popescu: (in fact it is perhaps obvious that was designed with a view to THIS, rather than "extant battlefield")
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mining doesn't have to mean that.
mircea_popescu: consider the fundamental value of regrinding!
mircea_popescu: nobody can know WHO truly authored a patch. just what set of the signatories signed it that they're willing to share with him
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu has thought of a meaning for it that doesn't 'a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' -- i'm all ears
mircea_popescu: this is a sort of gossipd-meets-the original "can't have signature repudiation" problem you encountered in comments there, but REVERSED.
mircea_popescu: ie, it's leveraged to fuck over the miner collusion properties of current pow.
asciilifeform: maybe i'm thick, but i dun see the algo 'between the lines' here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's model this. let "patch" be a bitfield ; let wot be comprised of l1...ln.
mircea_popescu: let observer E know of this wot. let observer E observe a P signed by a subset l1...lm of his wot.
mircea_popescu: at this point, how would E discern which party of l1..ln originated P ?
asciilifeform: dun tell me we gotta have the ring signatures thread again
mircea_popescu: suppose P was originated by E.
mircea_popescu: how would E know this ?
asciilifeform: process of elimination?
mircea_popescu: take it like this :
mircea_popescu: at t0, E produces P and signs it. E shares P signed by E with l1...lm.
mircea_popescu: at t1, E perceives P', signed by ; which is not an isomorphism of l1...lm, and might wel lnot even include E
mircea_popescu: what now ?
asciilifeform: what does signature even mean, if folx habitually sign both P and ~P
asciilifeform: or do i miss something
mircea_popescu: that they approve.
mircea_popescu: see, the SELECTION of .sigs you see is not promised to cover the whole space!
asciilifeform: consider, what do you do in your wot housekeeping ~today~ to people who habitually sign P ~and~ ~P
mircea_popescu: much like "you can't repudiate signatures -- can't see whole space" discussion in that thread.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you propose E's "process of elimination" is simple bit-comparison of P and P' ?
asciilifeform: nah, there's a time parameter
mircea_popescu: maybe that works.
mircea_popescu: this -- very rough draft.
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact the hook to hang by is there : at the present time how would someone who is hostile (ie, does not trust what we say) discern who originated mpi ?
mircea_popescu: "phf's time oracle". sure.
mircea_popescu: "especially because it agrees with logotron time oracles". sure...
asciilifeform: 1 way, would be by going to his own cellar and fetching optical disk where he has ~his~ mpi
asciilifeform: sorta like what archaeologists do already.
mircea_popescu: an evident issue would be of course that if ownership is implemented as-to-specified-coin as seen in bitcoin, then E has a ready avenue -- "all txn including spends from my own addresses are mine". this is a somewhat weakening of the premise, but perhaps sufficient.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's that prove tho ? winklevoss tards periodically go into their basement/den where they "have" "their own" copy of fb.
asciilifeform: it proves only to him, naturally
mircea_popescu: or that weird geek from early pedo-pedia days, what's his name
asciilifeform: how could it prove to anyone else.
asciilifeform: there is not, nor could there be, a fixed-star for existence proofs. even classical blockchain has the obvious limitations ( discussed numerously, see l0gz )
asciilifeform: ( if you ~could~ get a 'fixed star' , all sorts of marvels not found in nature become possible, e.g. )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 16:31 asciilifeform: it is worth recalling the gedankenexperiment where it turns out that all you'd need to build 'martian bank' on earth, is if martians merely supplied an infallible 'martian clock', a service whereby they take a string S , at regular, say, daily, interval, and return its hash H
asciilifeform: 'blockchain'ism is simply a very expensive means of approximating a solution to this problem.
asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque << or for that matter anybody else using trinque-bot -- any idea what gives ? i followed the example in the readme...
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: oooh i think i see why. ben_vulpes's 'multiple-channels' patch mutilated it
asciilifeform: ( how the fuck did it ever work , ben_vulpes ?? )
asciilifeform: you changed 'channel' slot in ircbot class to 'channels', but never bothered to change the corresponding line in make-ircbot !! ben_vulpes )
asciilifeform rewound to trinque's original, which in fact worx.
ben_vulpes: sharp eyes, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: no eyes involved, i pressed and used trinque's original usage.txt and got barf
asciilifeform: only then, had to unsheath eyes.
asciilifeform: anyway , worx, now all i need is to think of how to properly cut the output so as not to straddle message breaks...
ben_vulpes: sorry, asciilifeform. i was focused on the logbot part, forgot about the ircbot and to update documentation.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aa see i was making a .
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:46 asciilifeform: !~later tell trinque what do you recommend for a talking-in-chan bot-tron ? i'd like to hook up 'ffacalc'...
ben_vulpes: anyways i must have an extra-thick layer of prb, as my node has found precisely one block in the past three hours
asciilifeform: it isn't even impossible that there's only been 1 block in past 2hrs, say
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: one thing i do with logbot is to use postgres as a queue so that a background worker can do all of the thinking and crashing without thrashing the irc connection
ben_vulpes: this one block took me from 813 to 814
trinque: ben_vulpes: do you by chance have an active connection to ? or did in past ?
ben_vulpes: node was booted with that yes
trinque: a complicating factor of me testing the version string is that while ahead, I may be feeding other TRBs, while not, not.
asciilifeform: i'ma thinking already about next level of possible 'aggression' : namely to pushgetblocks() at ALL running peers, if >20min pass, say, without a new block received
trinque: I'm 60some blocks behind nao.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the same thought occurred to me
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: consider making a patch ?
ben_vulpes: yeah definitely
asciilifeform: it'll be, what, 4-5 lines.
ben_vulpes: i have another kiestered that i may as well unload at the same time, hash untrunculation
asciilifeform: ^ useful
asciilifeform: right up there with 'from-where-i-got-ACCEPTED-block'
asciilifeform: ( also in the log )
ben_vulpes: heh and what was its height and hash
asciilifeform: that already printed ( the latter , in classical trb, mutilated )
asciilifeform: what i'd like to see is 'was it from a trb?'
asciilifeform: i'd like to get a sense for where blocks come from.
asciilifeform: and from where only rubbish comes.
trinque: be nice if the person fixing logging takes out the idiot printf macro
trinque: I dunno a linux on earth that can't log the direct output of a service
ben_vulpes: right right
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect that we already had this thread
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but asciilifeform often ( almost always, in fact ) runs trb during tests, in pure userland, making use of 0 systemwide loggings )
asciilifeform: it must remain useful when printing to stdio
trinque: so postpend > muh.log
asciilifeform: yea i can't think of any reason whynot.
trinque: what we have now is some snowflake saying "no but this is what printf means to me"
asciilifeform: the 'find and open debug.log somewhere' is a winblowzism.
asciilifeform: 'os' without redirectable output , belongs in the oven.
trinque: mhm
ben_vulpes: lol that's right it comes out of SetBestChain
ben_vulpes: (hash and height, i mean)
mircea_popescu: nah, lots of clients stuck on 500816
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ftr that's ~10 hours ago, not 2.
mircea_popescu: tip is 879 as of ~12 mins ago
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, the absolute all-time champ at never-lagging in asciilifeform's house of horrors is... an ancient (circa 2013..?) prb !! e.g. currently at 500849
mircea_popescu: still way behind.
asciilifeform: where's the tip of the spear ?
asciilifeform: notably i have no way of knowing.
mircea_popescu: it's quite expensive, all this crap.
asciilifeform: vs what, paper cups ?
asciilifeform: yes expensive.
mircea_popescu: i never ran this many computors in my lyf!
asciilifeform: incidentally, this is a pretty sad situation, if even 1 of us has a node at block B, but everybody else somehow floundering at B-k, for some positive k
asciilifeform: *blockheight
asciilifeform: it ought not to be possible under the game rules
mircea_popescu: it's exactly what p2p means.
asciilifeform: ( if i know of a nextblock, and i'm peering with mircea_popescu , and he doesn't, or vice-versa -- the boxes oughta share )
mircea_popescu: and eventually will./
asciilifeform: q is why 'eventually' is a week, 2 weeks
asciilifeform: and not 10min
mircea_popescu: this is what a "gossip" network is all about.
asciilifeform: elementarily.
asciilifeform: single-threaded, locking gossip, is a sad thing tho.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox post your puzzle-hash as comment in ch4
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: btw , ftr , sha512(ch4_official_solution.txt) = 6878eec821232031b43b28f955971388d33262531c4205eff6be5e8e0244a2e092556623b9daff54058b781dc9eafc91bf8099c29ef1fd21602eccc18e63c8f1 .
asciilifeform bbl,meat
mircea_popescu: in other absolutely-not-news, I suppose the isomorphism <<-=->> is evident to everyone except the "self-determined" freewilled parties in question.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 17:46 ben_vulpes: dude this is epic, girl would rather talk about calendar offsets than earn a bitcent an hour reading the log
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 17:22 weevlos: 2) thats only close to a month of operations budget
mircea_popescu: (for bonus lulz, 12795/30/24 = 17.770833333 or roughly speaking 10 to the bitcent.)
ben_vulpes: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
BigTexasBingo: Did you know, Montevideo can be even more tranquilo
ben_vulpes: hola jefe
BigTexasBingo: Also, congratulations on the acceleration progress
ben_vulpes: mas tranquilo?
BigTexasBingo: The feria was more crowded than los domingos pasados, but most other places closed
ben_vulpes: como esto possible?
ben_vulpes: no party in the streets?
BigTexasBingo: The holiday
BigTexasBingo: Party later, asado and fireworks
ben_vulpes: ah si
BigTexasBingo: Perhaps the foundation could use some prb/trb bridges on boxen running both after the acceleration experiments bring more fruit.
BigTexasBingo: For serious though, how lucky am I that no other lord in the big prison has made their escape here yet
BigTexasBingo: Every single food better than it's closest US equivalent. Eye candy everywhere.
BigTexasBingo: And extranjero superpowers
BigTexasBingo: Where will the other lords land in this era of Great Again
ben_vulpes: a pies, ideally
ben_vulpes: !!up Hssgh5337k
deedbot: Hssgh5337k voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: and who're you, Hssgh5337k ?
Hssgh5337k: Why does that matter?
ben_vulpes: absent identity, one is naught.
ben_vulpes: and to quote BigTexasBingo, the time for showing up and derping around without saying "i am so and so, and should be considered for inclusion in the forum for reasons of x y and z" was in 2013, not the tail end of 2017.
ben_vulpes: come 2020 if not sooner, it'll be "and i beg your consideration".
BigTexasBingo: Nah that was BingoBoingo
ben_vulpes: oh right
ben_vulpes: who are you anyways
BigTexasBingo: Terminal secured for Navidad, BingoBoingo returns el 26 or if emergency appears in log
Hssgh5337k: In that case it seems my skills and opinions are not needed here.
Hssgh5337k: Goodbye.
BigTexasBingo: Well, asl?
ben_vulpes: Hssgh5337k: you could at least mention these skills; otherwise it reeks of "i'm a magical pony and YOU DON'T UNDERSTAAAAND"
ben_vulpes: and no, opinions don't exist here if they don't come from *a person*, which is predicated on an identity.
ben_vulpes: salud.
BigTexasBingo: Brb nap, sobertime, asado!
ben_vulpes: << any reason for this to not come out with the truncation patch?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: plox to link to mod6's latest spear-tip ?
asciilifeform: rather than 'who the hell knows if this is even still around' item
asciilifeform: ( it in fact is : . but really oughta link directly imho )
ben_vulpes: ah, makefiles. suresure.
asciilifeform: << ro was like this. to the point that even nao neither asciilifeform nor his pet can bring themselves to eat at american 'coffee' shops any moar. at all.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 20:11 BigTexasBingo: Every single food better than it's closest US equivalent. Eye candy everywhere.
ben_vulpes: traveling through the suburban wastelands yesterday, i tried a 'starbucks' croissant for lols, thinking to myself, 'imagine if they can screw up the croissant'. and lo, it was terrible. no flake, all soft spongiform inside.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: some of the bread eaten in blockade-era leningrad , was, i suspect, a serious step ahead of 'starbucks'.
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform discovered that it is impossible to use trinque's bot on fleanode if connecting from a shitazon session:
ben_vulpes: lolrly??
asciilifeform: result is, e.g., NOTICE: pehbot "*** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server"
asciilifeform: and it happens regardless of which *.fleanode box the lottotron gives you
ben_vulpes: and only from aws ips?
asciilifeform: nao how would i know if ~only~ from there
asciilifeform: maybe also from zimbabwe , who the fuck knows
asciilifeform: but quite certainly -- from aws.
asciilifeform: evidently world's largest, fastest spam isp, whod'vethunkit!11, is banned even on fleanode.
asciilifeform: which presently leaves asciilifeform with no place to put the bot ( i won't keep it on zoolag, uncloaked irc-to-fleanode results in massive shitfloods routinely )
ben_vulpes: what port are you connecting on?
asciilifeform: trinque's default
asciilifeform: what was it, 6667
asciilifeform: znc proxy would cure, i suspect
asciilifeform: but nao we're talking about a day or three of work.
asciilifeform: part of the process is that they're phasing in 'force people to run heartb^H^H^H^H^H^sasl to merely connect' item.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 17:59 mircea_popescu: NOW, the first, and naive, thought, would be "o noes, all those poor but intelligent engineer minds who will lose their freenode ; we should try to help them"
asciilifeform: 'I put together a Python-based client that can talk to Uber’s backends, to start harvesting OAuth2 tokens for entropy analysis and to see if there are any issues with their PRNG. What’s weird though is that the OAuth2 token doesn’t ever change, and I can’t find anything in the Uber developer documentation that deals with token expiration; literally the same token I was issued when I first created my Uber account for testing i
asciilifeform: s the same token I keep getting, no matter how many times I log in and out of my account using the Surface app' << lel
ben_vulpes: absurdly common
asciilifeform: also Believe Moar PGtronic sc4mz0rz...
ben_vulpes: and they need a next gen authentication framework to fix it...
asciilifeform: 'If you invest any time and effort into HackerOne Bug Bounties, HackerOne does not honor their minimum bug bounty guarantee, and will not go to bat for you if you have a dispute with one of their well-placed vendors such as Uber.' << noshit.jpg
ben_vulpes running truncation patch, will get back in the saddle after misc duties of parenting while impoverished
asciilifeform: also why wouldja 1) help hitler 2) for $ 500 3) that you'd have to suffer from down's syndrome to actually believe will be paid ...?
asciilifeform: the 3 or 4 people on the planet who can actually SELL 0days , knowing they'll be paid 1) know who they are 2) wouldn't even cough and spit for a mere 500 , esp if paid in taxolade 3) don't deal with 'uber' et al, or any 'responsible-disclosure'-pushing usg.tentacle , not for promises of three kingdoms and five princesses
asciilifeform: if yer a nobody, and you were to show up with a ~serious~ 0day : you have 1000x chance of getting 'weev'-ed, rather than paid .
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> iirc hanbot was using it to do something trilema-related, sounded happy with it. << yeah, i'm working on setting it up with a (partial in all senses) trilema post index, see if it makes finding posts in chan easier since google is ~useless for it. trinque's ircbot as posted has been a joy.
asciilifeform: oh hey hey hey lbj
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is neato, i'ma look when i get back
asciilifeform bbl, meat
ben_vulpes: how many power rangers did you kill today...
mircea_popescu: aand in other "my skills and oppinions not needed", here's rhonda young :
mircea_popescu: and mind all ye of the "aspirational" demographic, all ye dumb pantsuited hussies : the sword keeps right on cutting after it cut the slice you wanted.
mircea_popescu: i know it seemed all great and fabulous back when deskilling brought about abominables a la condolezza rice as "secretary of state" notwithstanding strict incapacity of any sort of thinking
mircea_popescu: but the same drive to ever cheapen the soviet's offerings to the zek ("only political training contributes to forwarding teh revolution!! everything else contributes to costs!!!" said teh world famous elena ceausescu-zigglar) will cheapen the very rug from under your feet also.
mircea_popescu: 2020 "young writer for the ny times" ain't gonna be 1950s ginsburg, as it ain't gonna be 1970s mia farrow. it's gonna be fungusbrain bigmomma.
mircea_popescu: when you worship your betters you ensure your place in the world, ~such as it is~. when you worship clitler you get nice words and utter doom.
mircea_popescu: it was important, to limit the derp nodes from choking the network.
mircea_popescu: (if node is behind nat -- it is a drag and naught else)
ben_vulpes: i don't quite see the connection between NATed nodes and this max outbound connections constraint, could you elaborate?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 20:35 ben_vulpes: << any reason for this to not come out with the truncation patch?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah i pulled the trigger on that excision along with the hash truncation, see the ml
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes suppose your relay network is 100 nodes ; suppose 10 of those are real nodes and 90 of those bullshit nodes behind a nat in a zek's house somewhere.
mircea_popescu: with the limit of 8, you have the 10 receiving no more than 720 connections, ie 7.2 on average, with a linear distrib max of 15 ? so you can live a standard of "and can handle 16 conns" for a "proper" box
mircea_popescu: if that limit is not there, you can readily encounter a situation where one of the 10 is taken down every other hour by 90 inbound connections. or at least -- more readily.
mircea_popescu: << but aren't their skills and oppinions important to you ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 20:40 asciilifeform: << ro was like this. to the point that even nao neither asciilifeform nor his pet can bring themselves to eat at american 'coffee' shops any moar. at all.
mircea_popescu: << croissant is THE most difficult item of boulangerie. that's why it's even famous.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 20:45 ben_vulpes: traveling through the suburban wastelands yesterday, i tried a 'starbucks' croissant for lols, thinking to myself, 'imagine if they can screw up the croissant'. and lo, it was terrible. no flake, all soft spongiform inside.
ben_vulpes: why do the NAT node connections threaten to take down realnodes?
mircea_popescu: << you could cloak it, for what that's worth. ask in #freenode, takes an hour or w/e.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 21:22 asciilifeform: evidently world's largest, fastest spam isp, whod'vethunkit!11, is banned even on fleanode.
ben_vulpes suffering from a confusion of ideas
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a node behind a NAT is not capable of being addressed. so it receives no inbound, merely connects out. so it does not participate in lessening the load.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem here : you get a bunch of "nodes" which only connect out, and a few nodes who get hammered. and since no serious thought was given to
ben_vulpes: ah and when its ip gets passed around the network, it simply shits the whole world up.
mircea_popescu: eh where is it
mircea_popescu: recall we had a discussion re star breaking nat crapolade. but you need the stars and a system specifically designed to use them, as there contemplate
mircea_popescu: not this adockery.
ben_vulpes: right right.
mircea_popescu: adhockery*
ben_vulpes: adcockery!
mircea_popescu: myeah. anyway, stopgap of the "if i make it what i think it should be -- it crashes" line.
ben_vulpes: gotcha
ben_vulpes: well the question rattling around me braincase is ~"does this help or hinder weaponized TRB?"
mircea_popescu: i didn;t realise anyone kept that thing in.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to have it in the press, esp considering the history of how that came about. but as obvious knob as it gets.
mircea_popescu: ~more of the same.
ben_vulpes: that bitmashing against the ip makes my head hurt.
mircea_popescu: BUT IT WORKS!!!
ben_vulpes: does it? does it really? what the fuck does work even mean here.
mircea_popescu: it'll be cool when they "upgrade" it to ipv6 and the 000ffff mask will have to be updated to correctly handle unicode.
ben_vulpes whimpers
ben_vulpes: no updating and no coming!
mircea_popescu: how do yo ulike my confused ideas now, BEOTCH!!11
ben_vulpes: i hate everything
ben_vulpes: but in particular i hate cpp
mircea_popescu: that's just because you're lazy. real men always work with tools designed to work counterproductivelty and maim them in the process.
ben_vulpes: hurtful!
mircea_popescu: observe -- colllege.
ben_vulpes: my feelings!
mircea_popescu: << lollfull. also because medium finally switched the bait, now it's full page "pardon the interruption" interstitials.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 21:34 ben_vulpes: and in responsible disclosurabilia
mircea_popescu: "What’s weird though is that the OAuth2 token doesn’t ever change, and I can’t find anything in the Uber developer documentation that deals with token expiration;" << word.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you (or anybody) has a contact for this gregory pery tard (i dun imagine actually works ?), maybe point out to him that and it's really ridoinculous to be wasting his weeks to freely support the usg pile of evil ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 19:23 mircea_popescu: in other absolutely-not-news, I suppose the isomorphism <<-=->> is evident to everyone except the "self-determined" freewilled parties in question.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i actually already emailed him
mircea_popescu: i'm curious what flavour of muh feelings gets pulled this time.
ben_vulpes: but judging from how the biofilm uses symbols instead of thinking i rather expect that the protonmail address is read
ben_vulpes: ftr, i dun expect a response
mircea_popescu: hardest thing to look at is how you wasted your life, halfway in. so, yeah.
mircea_popescu: fuck 'em, the salvation of the drowning is work for the hands of the self-same drowning. god may mercifully send you a sign, but that's already asking for too much.
ben_vulpes: for the curious, dear gregory pery do call in, our listeners are dying to meet you
ben_vulpes: god sent him a sign, what's he going to do with it.
mircea_popescu: moar directed next time, i'd guess.
ben_vulpes: aight
ben_vulpes: meanwhile, i (sadly) understand now
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 23:32 ben_vulpes: also what on earth is
mircea_popescu: << word. i think there's a half dozen websites dissected on trilema displaying the exact behaviour.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 21:35 ben_vulpes: absurdly common
mircea_popescu: << because he just wants to. just like all the other zektards.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 21:38 asciilifeform: also why wouldja 1) help hitler 2) for $ 500 3) that you'd have to suffer from down's syndrome to actually believe will be paid ...?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 22:54 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform et al:
mircea_popescu: idiot didn't even truncate to the same length.
ben_vulpes: also it is *snowing* on *christmas eve* in the northern suburbs of the socialist paradise
mircea_popescu: sounds like global snowing
ben_vulpes: while i wait for the mailing list to process my latest note, please note that the sig attached in needs renaming to `ben_vulpes_excise_hash_truncation.vpatch.ben_vulpes.sig'
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 22:54 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform et al:
mircea_popescu: dude... this place isn't for this please note stuff.
mircea_popescu: nobody will note nor should they. why does it need renaming ?
ben_vulpes: otherwise won't recognize it as a seal.
mircea_popescu: name them properly!
ben_vulpes: let's try again: i misnamed the seal for the truncation patch, must have "ben_vulpes" in the last period-delimited field of the seal name instead of "ben_vules"
mircea_popescu: ben_vules srsly, you misspelled your own name ?
ben_vulpes: do i look like i'm kidding?
danielpbarron: in his defense, you'd have to rename it anyway as the mailing list adds the sha sum to the filename
mircea_popescu: for teh first time in many weeks, i dunno what to say.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron yeah, not too crazy about that behaviour either.
danielpbarron: i know this was discussed already but i don't see how the sha in the url helps, or for that matter posting sums in chan. if the enemy is gonna swap out the file he can swap out the hash too right?
mircea_popescu: separate items. i think the sha was in the ml name to prevent collisions ;
mircea_popescu: it's in the channel as an ad-hoc thing, "this person is voiced atm, if that's worth anything to you". not intended to prove anything to archeologists.
ben_vulpes: pflol well after excising max_outbound_connections and the one-connection-per-block connection count now at 114 and node very quickly got back up to date
ben_vulpes: there's ~no way that the timeout requestment has fired yet
ben_vulpes: current vpatch for the curious, will post to ml after letting it run for a while
shinohai: So shinohai managed to acquire decent hotel room on Xmas eve in old hometown .... and has a curious fake plant that resembles marijuana sitting in corner.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: lol pics?
shinohai: gimmie a moment .... shitty fone
asciilifeform: << seems to demand the sasl nonsense , for new nicks
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 23:29 mircea_popescu: << you could cloak it, for what that's worth. ask in #freenode, takes an hour or w/e.
ben_vulpes: > cannapeg
ben_vulpes: lol what kind of unholy fascimilie is that
ben_vulpes: facsimilie*
shinohai: I have no idea, these things are located all over the building. I like the place though, beats the shit out of LaQuinta Inn or whatever.
ben_vulpes: !!up KutmasteR merry kutmas
deedbot: KutmasteR voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque wonders when the republic shall revive saturnalia
trinque: wine floweth, pants on head, masters serving slaves, carnival riot
trinque: anyhow, whichever one cracks the wine bottles in your house, enjoy it.
ben_vulpes toasts trinque
trinque: cheers my friend
ben_vulpes: and eyy, just caught a block before
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nice going.
shinohai toasts trinque also [~]D
mircea_popescu: trinque i just got to watch like 4 or 5 different fireworks displays.
ben_vulpes: c block means a.b.c.d right?
trinque: mircea_popescu: lovely, any holiday worth a shit has explosions.
ben_vulpes: is there an argument to be made against asking peers for new blocks every time TRB loops through the peerlist? too resource-intensive?
mircea_popescu: every time you connect seems the logical place.
shinohai: Dunno what others think, but I would prefer this as a knob to turn on/off
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that could in theory be once and never after for long-running and stable connections
mircea_popescu: and operator is free to kick off unperformant peers.
mircea_popescu: however he defines it
ben_vulpes: shinohai: howabout a timeout knob? every <configurable> minutes after the last block, pushgetblocks to all peers?
mircea_popescu: to peers that advertise lower height than yours ?
shinohai: That's a good idea too ... timeout knob.
mircea_popescu: "every 10 minutes pushgetblocks to all peers that advertise higher height than yours" is still wasteful, you will ask 114 people for the same item with your new cuts.
mircea_popescu: how about "pushgetblock to ONE peer randomly selected from the list of peers advertising higher block tip than you have upon every block verification (whether successful or not) and every 10 minutes henceforth"
mircea_popescu: then the "10" can be configurable ; or else it can be calculated by the node, (such as "117% of average time it took me to check the past 144 blocks" for instance)
ben_vulpes: i'll have to look into how block height is advertised but that makes sense mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: noches, btb
BigTexasBingo: Hola, shit latino navidad has a fuckton of fireworks
ben_vulpes: wowee, when i reload first it shows one number for how long a block's been advertised and then shortly thereafter, another number indicating they've known about it for longer than they said at first!
ben_vulpes: the magic of javascript! you can decide what world you live in!
BigTexasBingo loving the shit out of the aggression talk
danielpbarron: what's the difference? maybe they report the time they initially saw it but don't list till it's verified
danielpbarron: i've noticed a few times my node saw a block before bc.i but they end up listing it before mine verifies
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: first the page renders with 500918: 12, then five seconds later 500918 now apparently has an age of 13 minutes
danielpbarron: oh hah, that's way off huh
mircea_popescu: um. why use deltas anyway ?
ben_vulpes: yeah, and this is true of all their listed blocks
ben_vulpes: i imagine there's some "isomorphic backend rendering" node black magic horseshit going on behind the scenes
BigTexasBingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BigTexasBingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 13780.74, vol: 17506.11025523 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 13249.0, vol: 67456.67368532 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 13557.1, vol: 3304.87907432 | Volume-weighted last average: 13365.9956466
BigTexasBingo: And the aggression scares the crashing.
ben_vulpes: anyways, my node is now either fourteen or fifteen minutes behind bc.i depending on how their javascript feels, so perhaps there's nothing to this aggression after all, sorry to disappoint BigTexasBingo
BigTexasBingo: Don't read to much into the words, follow the laughing and you're in.
mircea_popescu: it's a complicated topic, ben_vulpes ; do not expect "this one weird trick" cures.
mircea_popescu: solid and patient improvements towards the right thing ; but preferably after db fix & client split as discussed.
BigTexasBingo: Could be the most practical trilema piece of the year that one. Utilized in meatspace so soon after publication.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: am looking more for "open throttle to max airflow" knob than holographic stickers to increase hp
ben_vulpes: in other random lols: 2017-12-25_02:27:44.00324 version message: version 70013, blocks=0
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 22:54 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform et al:
ben_vulpes: sweet! thanks phf
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform mod6 phf mircea_popescu trinque and phriendz:
ben_vulpes: phf: ty!
mircea_popescu: except you can cash out perfectly fine, and this fucktard used to be if memory serves.
ben_vulpes: indeed!
mircea_popescu: did he ever answer to why is he such a despicable piece of shit ?
mircea_popescu: or is this alt-world where we never have to confront uncomfortable truths.
ben_vulpes: all worlds outside #trilema are the alt-world
mircea_popescu: i guess we leave him a note.
ben_vulpes: geeeeeet in there!
← 2017-12-23 | 2017-12-25 →