BingoBoingo: !~ticker --marker all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 17749.96, vol: 28774.19176956 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 17491.0, vol: 82001.32135277 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 17670.0, vol: 5915.74651062 | Volume-weighted last average: 17563.9299123
BingoBoingo: First they make mantadory annoyance broadcast in old country when children go missing, now: "The FCC recently announced a new alert program called "Blue Alert" that will notify the public of threats to law enforcement in real time. "With the creation of a dedicated Blue Alert event code in the Emergency Alert System, state and local law enforcement will have the capability to push immediate warnings out to the public via broadcast,
BingoBoingo: cable, and satellite providers, as well as to consumer smartphones through the Wireless Emergency Alert system," reports Android Police. From the report"
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1754999 <- it is broken anyway, yes; at the very top it works as I said: by avoiding it basically; in any case, hang on until tomorrow as next chapter will have to be patching this and sorting it out
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 01:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754868 << this wasnt finished. that thing does nuffin , regardless of the loop termination condition
diana_coman: for the very impatient: caller fails on the cases where it uses that broken macro i.e. any shift by a multiple of BITS_PER_MPI_LIMB; 0 is just one case, not the only one; further up, caller avoids the issue, as stated
mod6: nice work diana_coman
diana_coman: thanks mod6!
diana_coman: thing is now I'm even *less* comfortable using that whole mpi thing... makes me wonder what else is in there and not yet spotted
asciilifeform: esp. spicy considering that it is taken straight from mircea_popescu ( and prolly just about everybody else's ) gpg
diana_coman: asciilifeform, myeah, I suspect it's still widely used in fact; if I get any time I'll take a peak at latest I suppose
asciilifeform: afaik 2.x gpg uses wholly unrelated crapola
diana_coman: in other words a whole new set of worms, veryverynice
diana_coman: so I just did a quick curl for latest gpg, 2.2.4; at least in name ~everything is changed ofc, but it's a load of lol to do a plain grep -r "workaround" .
asciilifeform: in other noose, trinque's pill worked, but the gcc5.x item was not needed
mircea_popescu: "mp, why isn't your infinite world update, announced LAST YEAR, live yet ?!?!" "because ints don't work on computers. also because merely rewriting the crypto layer ain't fucking enough. and also because FUCK YOUR UGLY ASS MOTHER AND THE IDIOT DRUNKS SHE KEEPS FUCKING, FUCKO!"
asciilifeform: emerge -e world , on gcc4.9, did the trick.
asciilifeform: ( took about 2hrs on this box )
trinque: hm cool. I'll remove it and see if I can do same, 6 -> 4
danielpbarron: who is saying that about eulora? i'm not in any rush. whenever there is a drastic change it makes me more nervous than excited, because now I gotta re-figure everything out again
mircea_popescu: i just get pissy when my brilliant ideas can't be implemented like, the next day.
mircea_popescu: but look on the bright side danielpbarron : if that process ain't making you a scientist, nothing will.
diana_coman: heh, in good old traditions of a long-gone world and age, eulorans are rather suspicious of change and they aren't old even!!
mircea_popescu: for srs
mircea_popescu: funny how the "days gone by" immediately reconstruct themselves just as soon as one ditches the rotten principles preventing them.
BingoBoingo: And on tonight's agenda, a spanish test
BingoBoingo: Gracias. Ought to be a valuable cultural immersion experience.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16607.0, vol: 32318.56936603 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16573.0, vol: 84487.14105495 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16226.4, vol: 6052.27874841 | Volume-weighted last average: 16564.8695686
asciilifeform: ^ summary: one-time inheritor of bellard's 'tinycc' , gave up over, supposedly, versioncontrol wank
mircea_popescu: i can believe it.
phf: that explains why when i tried building it it was chasing compatibility bugs down a rabbit hole
phf: "then told me that I had to abandon my cleanup work and start over on his tree, and explain everything to his satisfaction (as a Windows guy) before it could go in"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what
mircea_popescu: is this like... V before V, ie, all-the-disadvantages-and-no-more ?
phf: But these days, my complaint is that I have no confidence whatsoever in
phf: tinycc's maintainership. It has the tinycc.org domain, and Fabrice
phf: handed over the project, so it is the official final resting place of
phf: tcc. But it's still stagnant, because Fabrice put a Windows developer
phf: in charge of the project, one who apparently does not understand open
phf: source development in the slightest. He's putting out a windows-only
phf: version of tcc as far as I can tell, one which will never build an
phf: unmodified Linux kernel (has made zero progress on this front in the
phf: past _THREE_YEARS_), thus it cannot ever act as (even an infereior) gcc
mircea_popescu: so why's he not took it over ?
phf: i think he doesn't like that they keep poaching his changes back into official cvs
shinohai: (For those wondering how BTCrash got a mention on CNBC and a coinbase listing: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/VERified.jpg )
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform found it impossible to rebuild http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755200 under gcc 4.9
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 03:29 asciilifeform: .... Failed to emerge sys-process/procps-3.3.12-r1
asciilifeform: thing was, it seems , silently shitgnomed
asciilifeform: ( no concrete clue, yet, how, was unable to turn up any discussion whatsoever of it , anywhere )
asciilifeform: or hm, nm, oddly enough built after reset with -nss build of world-minus-it
asciilifeform: grr, nls
ben_vulpes: shinohai: megalol at insider trading of altcoins
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ain't that the whole point of running a gox
asciilifeform: it + frontrunning
phf: looking at their commit history there's a lot of "utf8 support in ..." and "nls ..." which is probably the proverbial fleas bringing dog
asciilifeform: fwiw the box appears to be stable, usable, nao.
asciilifeform: ( at least as much so as my other gentoo boxen )
asciilifeform: phf: what didja say was rotten in sbcl 1.3.11 ?
trinque: nls, utf8, ipv6 support, all "lets bolt gendercommits to the side"
phf: asciilifeform: you know after staring at a lot of bad c code and last two days worth of conversations, i don't think there's much wrong with sbcl, but then i haven't looked at sbcl code in about a year at this point. i think i was mostly objecting to overall trajectory of lisp ecosystem
asciilifeform: ah hm i thought it had 'progressed' into unusability recently
phf: but specifically it was small annoyances with "modern" enforcements. like style warnings, or my personal pet peeve, the fact that you can't shadow locked packages without having to unlock
phf: the awfully pedantic defconstant behavior (which sbcl specific, and which requires packages like alexandria to have asinine define-constant, which for all practical purposes is what defconstant is supposed to be)
phf: the fact that character type is not dynamic (which to be fair is the property of all free lisps for some reason), so if you're dealing with text, you're forced into 32byte per character nonsense
phf: the fact that macro evaluator inlines both compiled and non-compiled macros, which means that you have to manual track macro dependency and tediously reevaluate even when working in an interactive environment
phf: i think naggum has a rant about the last one
asciilifeform: the existence of the compiler seems to be ~the~ fountain of braindamage for pc lisps
phf: none of these are properties of sbcl past certain vintage though though, sbcl is already a modernization of common lisp
a111: Logged on 2017-12-10 15:41 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-10#1749266 << asciilifeform has been chewing on this conundrum for a while. the inevitable pill is a minimal ( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-12#1736844 ) but reasonable microscopic interpreter ( likely schemelike ) in asm; and from it, to climb back up.
asciilifeform: the wedge between cpu and ram clocks today would , i suspect, wipe out the performance difference for most problems
phf: cmucl fwiw was designed like a lisp machine (though it had damage done to it by modernizers already), where the evaluator + vops was you primary interaction mode, and compilation was a way to evaluate a piece of code to a vop like status
asciilifeform: ( b/w a fits-in-cache interpreter, and sbcl's compiler )
asciilifeform: no 'status' of code. tinyscheme-like representation.
asciilifeform: no emission of x86olade at runtime.
phf: and vops in turn were an equivalent of a lisp machine microcode
a111: Logged on 2017-01-19 17:38 asciilifeform: also (and iirc i discussed this on my www at one point) the correct approach is to ditch the native compiler, in favour of the interpreter, hand-compiled to fit in L0 cache
phf: you're not going to even approach a performance of a compiled sbcl. at best you would do is non-jited lua
asciilifeform: this is possible. when's the last time you saw a cpu-bound proggy in cl tho
asciilifeform: cpu-boundness is rarer than anybody's willing to admit.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 18:27 phf: the fact that character type is not dynamic (which to be fair is the property of all free lisps for some reason), so if you're dealing with text, you're forced into 32byte per character nonsense
phf: obviously a typo
asciilifeform: thought i oughta ask, lol
phf: you kind of have to these days yes
asciilifeform: i'm not sure this is braindamaged tho: if you ~must~ have orcograms
asciilifeform: then even 64bit per char beats utfism
asciilifeform: O(N) length calculation is braindamaged.
trinque: I dunno why orcograms aren't done the same way as image formats. doesn't need to be built into the OS.
phf: that's a very broad statement
trinque: then the kids can run wild with their UTF128s and nobody has to care
asciilifeform: trinque: is 'character' concept built in ? if yes, then you have what we have
asciilifeform: if not, then neither can you have a notion of 'string'
asciilifeform: nor tty
phf: trinque: ccl used to do it that way actually, interested parties might want to poach that code. they call the concept Rune and it's basically a way to support orcograms in a 8bit lisp
trinque: you'll have to justify why those need orcograms
trinque: literature sure, code? ui?
trinque: phf: neato
asciilifeform: and how come can't reverse this q and ask trinque to justify 8-bit c-ism ?
trinque: "neener, worked for the romans" ?
asciilifeform: this is how you get unix liquishit
asciilifeform: and nulltermed strings etc
trinque: ah we're talking about linked-list strings then?
asciilifeform: they 'worked' in the sense that 'romans' were ok with overflows, crashes, never heard of what is exploitability
asciilifeform: trinque: any kind of string
trinque: I wasn't, so I'll let you continue on that
phf: maybe he's talking about pascal strings, it's hard to say at this point
asciilifeform: q is, of what is made a 'string'
asciilifeform: phf: strictly arguing against 'worked for the romans' mode of thinking
asciilifeform: rather than in favour of 256bit or whatever chars.
trinque: ah, my point was that the roman alphabet is sufficient for one of the most expressive languages to exist, so arguments that orcograms are needed would need to explain that.
phf: https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2017/12/19/the-strange-story-of-extended-random/ in unrelated
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755435 << this is shockingly dumb, on an excel level of dumbness.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 18:29 phf: the fact that macro evaluator inlines both compiled and non-compiled macros, which means that you have to manual track macro dependency and tediously reevaluate even when working in an interactive environment
mircea_popescu: what do you do, vrite yourself vbasic macros to do it like goldman sachs gausscopulators ?
phf: naggum has a rant about it specifically
mircea_popescu: so it's 20 years old by now ?
phf: heh, while looking for that rant "I have designed and implemented one for my own needs, but I find the number of disgusting losers who would benefit from it if I published my code to be too high."
asciilifeform: phf: i'ma guess this is 90% of the world of 'stfu, no , i won't publish it'
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
asciilifeform: 1 of the very few antipoettering bugsprays available to the wotless -- writing 'into a desk'
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 19:00 trinque: I dunno why orcograms aren't done the same way as image formats. doesn't need to be built into the OS.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755462 << because the stupid woman doesn't want to be on the reservation alone. she wants to live in your house and get in front of the tv while you're watching it.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 19:00 trinque: then the kids can run wild with their UTF128s and nobody has to care
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't picture how to apply it to ~text~ tho
asciilifeform: how the hell to represent , e.g., the source itself
asciilifeform: ... comments ? ... eggogs ?
mircea_popescu: apply what ?
asciilifeform: 'don't build into os'
mircea_popescu: dude, dumbwoman drawings are only for rest state.
mircea_popescu: broken machine uses ascii only.
mircea_popescu: she can't read it nor is she intended to read it. find/beg/pay someone to get it back to smileys state first.
mircea_popescu: then can resume smiley usage.
asciilifeform: in 80x25!111
asciilifeform: on 2nd thought, neh, decadence,
mircea_popescu: inferiority of inferior must be baked into every single UNIT of everything around them
mircea_popescu: exactly like XX is in every cell.
asciilifeform: serial , 9600@8,N,1
mircea_popescu: if i was in charge of "human services" all govt housing would have on all walls "you are here ; because you suck."
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/heres-why-you-will-end-your-days-in-a-concentration-camp/ << Trilema - Here's why you will end your days in a concentration camp
mircea_popescu: no further "art" is needed in that context.
phf: source reading can be a preprocessor stage (which is a lot saner to do in common lisp than elsewhere), this is also how traditional tex handles orclangs, before xetex and luatex and such. special ascii sequences to represent local lang glyphs and if you don't want to write those by hand, you use (or write) a tool that takes a local encoded document and translates it into ascii
asciilifeform: this is pretty good imho idea
asciilifeform: i can't think of any serious minus, in fact
phf: fwiw bulk of these tools have been written through the 90s and what was worthwhile from orcland was published that way then. until silent takeover by latex & 1.8gb tex installations happened and none of these tricks work anymore (because the necessary hooks are so deep within the layer of cruft it's near impossible to get to them, and one way they did it is through standard file system lay out, that requires a chain of compilation stages to move files
phf: from location A to location B to location C where they are expected)
asciilifeform: the unix dir tree concept braindamage is a gift that keeps on givin', eh
phf: there's not a single article on the subject of compilation, but here's the complete thread https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=recompile+reeval&sort=of specific test that he proposes is in https://firstname.lastname@example.org and the "dun work" reaction https://email@example.com
asciilifeform: phf: the 'special' status of macros always bothered me
asciilifeform: imho it was a mistake.
phf: there's two sbcl apologists further in thread, one of them saying "I don't mind provocative /per se/, but what you were saying gives the a| impression that SBCL is willfully bad, as opposed to in development. But lumping it in with willfully noncompliant systems for this reason, | given it's version number, is inappropriate." and the other one is a core dev saying that they might add it. of course the expected behavior is still not there
asciilifeform: а воз и ныне там (tm)(r)
phf: even though i hear that sbcl now has a evaluator added back?
phf: etc etc etc
asciilifeform: did it ever fully vanish ?
phf: yeah, bill newman had to rip it out when he was doing the original bootstrapping work
mircea_popescu: btw that picture of matthew green is so ridoinculous...
mircea_popescu: "but we were never able to find it or prove it existed." << we still never found the gnupg culprit ; and most interestingly to my knowledge NONE of the idiots with broken keys put a post on their blog, "here is the software that made it"
mircea_popescu: though ALL SORTS of rank imbeciles, such as that "pirate party" fucktard, had complaints of the proofy proof flavour.
asciilifeform: i was abouttosay, what good does 'proof' when reply is inevitably 'but where is the proof of yer proof's proofiness'
phf: i mean guy says so himself "Specifically, you never really get absolute proof. There’s always some innocent or coincidental explanation that could sort of fit the evidence — maybe it was all a stupid mistake."
asciilifeform: it isn't clear that it is even possible to carry out an intellectual exchange with such folx, who have 0 shared priors with actual people. the only conversation can then consist of the lime pit.
phf: oblig. ptacek link
asciilifeform: phf: there is no amount of bending-over-backwards that is toomuch for these usefulidjits
asciilifeform: to give 'innocent' explanation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least he links tptacek
mircea_popescu: phf basically, dedicatedly "we don't own the state" engineer-mind, the exact correlate of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1043852
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 02:23 mircea_popescu: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/#comment-160814 << sweet innocence.
mircea_popescu: if you don't own it, who the fuck does ? daytime tv starlets ? fat brown women behind fast food counter ? who ?
mircea_popescu: and no, "everyone" is not a fucking answer. state exists to enforce priviledge against the mass. whose.
asciilifeform: engineer's view that he doesn't own anything, i.e. is gulag inmate -- is generally accurate.
asciilifeform: q is 'nao wat'
mircea_popescu: doesn't fuckin have to be.
asciilifeform: and indeed 'daytime tv starlets' and 'fat brown women behind fast food counter' are far closer to owners , than the engineer.
asciilifeform: both are , of a kind, nomenklatura.
asciilifeform: in other olds, asciilifeform found insinuations that gcc 4.7 was at some time built successfully using tcc. but no detail re how, in particular which tcc, where to get that
asciilifeform looked again at last-known tcc. it is not , after all, so small : ~54kLoc ; ~1.7MB !!! of sores.
asciilifeform: only 'small' compared to gcc monster.
asciilifeform: quite heavy compared to even, say, trb.
mircea_popescu: or to say diff
asciilifeform: and of comparable size to... minix
asciilifeform: iirc phf's diff is ~6 kLoc
asciilifeform: incidentally bellard's tcc is not in any simple way trimmable, no autoconf garbage or the like, in there.
asciilifeform: it's apparently all meat.
asciilifeform: c is simply a terrifyingly retarded lang in which to write ~anything~ compactly, even ccompiler.
asciilifeform: especially a compiler.
mircea_popescu: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/P1000071-1024x768.jpg << check out where 1980s moscow went!
asciilifeform: eh those ac units look as chronologically '80s as ipad.
asciilifeform: ( upper-right of pic )
mircea_popescu: hm. acs huh
asciilifeform: the surviving hruschebas asciilifeform saw in bucharest, however, looked quite like this
mircea_popescu: and in other vocational training, http://78.media.tumblr.com/563edda993665378ae74ec037dd28b6f/tumblr_nkd0rtUuuS1u06pkwo1_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ah, there's a few of them scattered around my Barrio, but few and usually at least dos quadras off la avenida 26 de de Marzo
BingoBoingo: On la avenida, such a building would have been kept its bones and been given a new facade because gotta sell vacation homes. 2 blocks away? What tourist would go there?
BingoBoingo: Outside of tourist and mega business areas the trend seems to polished interiors while letting exeteriors do as they do.
BingoBoingo: In a bit under an hour, I visit la ciudad vieja for the first time and there spanish test
phf: mp is quite dangerous with them bash scripts
phf: i think a proper cuntoo doesn't even need x11, bash scripts, lynx and framebuffer to render images if need be
mircea_popescu: bash is turing complete, you know this right ?
phf: eh it's all irrelevant to substance anyway, since bulk of computer activity amongst programmers is, to badly quote logs from memory, getting everything ready to meet girls by doing some misplacing activity somewhere where girls will never be
phf: that is to say, that mp machine can really be anything, and it'll be used directly, rest of us will spend next year fucking around with dlls
mircea_popescu: you seem enlightened allovasudden
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform wrote a sane commandline-getter for gnat
asciilifeform: and in the process discovered that the original was ~maliciously~ stupid, there is NO reason why it HAD to return an unknown-length string value
asciilifeform: and thereby force the use of secondary stack
asciilifeform: just as easily it is possible to give it a 'here's an empty string of length L to take a shit into, for each cmdline param, and if the actual exceeds it, trigger constrainterror'
asciilifeform: dunno why i didn't think of it earlier
mircea_popescu: malicious ? :D
asciilifeform: well i have nfi , but it entirely needlessly drags along the secondarystack thing
asciilifeform: it sits on the edge between outright wrecking and simple down's syndrome
ben_vulpes: i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
asciilifeform: here's the original, appreciate the horror : https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__adb.htm + https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__ads.htm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're missing the point. perhaps the reason YOU didn't think about it before is that YOU are malicious ?
mircea_popescu: or perhaps people just don't think of things.
asciilifeform: and new orders from moscow, were to think of it, lol
asciilifeform: at any rate i dun presume to distinguish.
asciilifeform: here's the trisomy artifact itself : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PlehJ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: would make a pretty great sf/steampunk/altsovietrealism item
asciilifeform: i'ma paste , for the hall of fame:
asciilifeform: Arg : aliased String (1 .. Len_Arg (Num));
asciilifeform: Fill_Arg (Arg'Address, Num);
asciilifeform: return Arg;
asciilifeform: this is the , in mircea_popescuine parlance, 'hole where the night came in'
asciilifeform: if you return a String, that's 2ndarystacktronic . no escape.
asciilifeform: ( the 2ndarystack is used to keep around the lengths of this variable-length turd that got thrown on the primary. )
asciilifeform: and hats off to the 1st reader here who immediately thought, reading the ads earlier, 'wtf does it mean and who ever heard of ~removing~ arguments from cmdline ?!'
asciilifeform: it's like encountering a toilet with a reverse gear, is what this is.
asciilifeform: what was author thinking...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: dare i ask at what sort of table
mircea_popescu: that's a great image
ben_vulpes: just my dinner table
ben_vulpes: a few short seconds later the same person practically pulled a 'halt and catch fire' when attempting to use a word that doesn't mean broken to describe f. ex. chromosomal abnormalities
ben_vulpes: not even use, but locked up trying to find
ben_vulpes: it's wildly entertaining watching people thrash in their own contradictions
ben_vulpes: "humans can't be defective!" "well what do you call it when they're missing a chromosome, eh?"
mircea_popescu: it's not defective, it's effective!
asciilifeform: aaaaand here: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tPv4l/?raw=true << is the tentative pill.
asciilifeform: ^ used in place of , rather than in addition to, Ada.Command_Line
asciilifeform: it relies , as is obvious , on the guts of gnat's main() initializer, that sets the turds . but in so far as i can tell , it is the same in all known gnats
asciilifeform: if anyone knows otherwise, plox to write in.
asciilifeform: aaand if anyone can think of a less revoltingly-tasting pill, plz to also write in.
asciilifeform: ( there is not, notably, any possibility of a pill that dun force cpointerism ; as gnatv is at birth a cpointeristic turd )
asciilifeform: on subj.
asciilifeform: '...this linguistic battle is inherently non-winnable, as can be seen from how every term that was originally meant to be non-offensive, such as “moron”, “retarded” and “imbecile”, always became a schoolyard insult in short order. ... This is inevitable because the underlying reality that these words refer to is horrifying, and everyone can see how bad it would be to get hit on the head ...'
asciilifeform: '...Accepting or rejecting this phenomenon marks a fundamental divide between those who believe that words create reality, versus those who believe that objective reality exists and operates independently of how we happen to speak and think about it.'
ben_vulpes: the real fun is in asking "what word do you want me to use instead?" and then using it in such a way that all the partizans wince, knowing that word means The Bad Thing now.
ben_vulpes: in other top notch lolz, the redhat "totp" ios "app" does not provide for backing up the shared seeds.
asciilifeform: i had nfi this existed
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yr defectively steeped in security theater
asciilifeform: only ever encountered google's variant of this idiocy
ben_vulpes: here i was, thinking that a redhat product would have features like 'backup'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: naturally they'd rather lusers not have 'lift the seekrit out of the pnoje' button, or they'll push it and write on postitnote
ben_vulpes: im astonished this idiocy made it past the enterprise sales people; 'IT will want to know how to back these codes up'
ben_vulpes: or 'IT will want to know how to upgrade users devices without revoking every key and leaving accounts 'unsecured' during the TOTP rotation"
asciilifeform: why would the admin want to back it up ? if luser luses his pnoje, he goes to beg and be issued new code, neh
asciilifeform: who the fuck 'backs up' per-luser pw.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why wouldja give all of the monkeys one shared key?!
phf: ben_vulpes: before i finally gave up my ios, i was using pythonista for almost everything, including totp. there's some python totp implementation that i lifted from somewhere, that can be easily ported. i gave up writing a barcode recognizer, though it's not a particularly daunting task with numpy
ben_vulpes: phf: oh that's nifty
ben_vulpes: i guess this is new as of the lifted ban on interpreters and compilers?
asciilifeform: yea i missed this
phf: pythonista has been around for a while. it's literally the only useful application for the iphone
asciilifeform still doesn't get why one would program ~on~ ipnoje
asciilifeform: ~for~ it, i can even picture, nintendomarket, etc. but ~on~ ?!
phf: both times i wrote anything on pythonista was when i was traveling without a computer, and i do it semi-recreationally. with automatic indentation and completion it's not particularly painful, if the goal is to get some interesting computations going, rather then you know "programming environment". it's more of a turtle kind of exercise
asciilifeform: aa sorta how asciilifeform sometimes travels with a hp48
asciilifeform: that makes moarsense.
asciilifeform: phf: i've always wondered if it is possible to make a 'programming toy' proggy for touchpnojes that actually makes productive use of the fingers , rather than torturing user with simulated kbd
phf: one thing i wrote that i was really happy with is a very simple gps coordinates to atlas grid mapper. the thing would basically draw a rectangle with atlas grid number, like p34 A7 and inside the rectangle it'll draw a large red dot which roughly indicates where in the quadrant you are. i was using it extensively on a trip through alaska, because the toy catches gps readily, but naturally can't catch internet connection. so it was a kind of navigation
asciilifeform: something like interlisp's structureeditor, perhaps
asciilifeform: neato, notbad
asciilifeform: on subj : asciilifeform also wonders if anybody's 'liberated' google et al's spysat jpgs
asciilifeform: for offline use.
asciilifeform: primo use of a good spam-ip farm
phf: would make for a lovely torrent dump
asciilifeform: there's no particular reason why one couldn't put it all on sd card and make passive pocket maptron.
phf: because their maps are certainly shit for any kind of navigation that's not by road.
asciilifeform: ( and the oblig. terrain-tracking icbm... )
asciilifeform: forget the street maps, speaking of raw photo
ben_vulpes: let's just continue with the apple idiocy: "try the new safari! fast, energy efficient, and with a beautiful new design."
ben_vulpes: energy efficient, dontchaknow!
ben_vulpes: probably tastes great with a dash of "selectively run js load from google.com, facebook.com after everything else because trackers are js dogs"
phf: major reason i gave up ios is because getting a working connection proxy requires a full blown vpn going
ben_vulpes: phf: rocking the 'mp01' or what
phf: jesus what the fuck is this
phf: no, one sec
phf: samsung sgh-t139
ben_vulpes: ah looks like a classic
ben_vulpes: how's the t9?
asciilifeform: speaking of this, anybody know of a 'dumb' pnoje that has whitelists ?
asciilifeform: apparently none made in ~decade
asciilifeform: i was buying one, for someone else, not long ago, and ended up with ye olde 'razr'
asciilifeform: astonishing how such elementary feature is unknown today. i.e. 'NO ring unless one of numbers N1, N2, ... Ni'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: hey, t9 implementations suck now too. no auto-updating dictionary, statistic-based wordguessing...
asciilifeform: i'd buy a pnoje that supports... morse input
asciilifeform: fuck t9.
ben_vulpes: you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
phf: ben_vulpes: t9's not bad, it has an auto-updating dictionary which i only use for names, because it also amuses me to write like i'm from a different planet.
mod6: t9, lol
ben_vulpes: pretty tragic that one even has the basis to ask 'how bad is the t9', given how well it worked two decades ago.
phf: "a face book? i do not poses a face book, i have many regular books though!"
ben_vulpes: lol hah
ben_vulpes: i have developed an allergy to bending myself to fit my tools over the last four years; ios is one of the last bits of sand in me gears
phf: i recently threw out a perfectly working dual-sim nokia something or other, because i thought i lost the battery, but just yesterday i discovered that i had whole two batteries stored elsewhere.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-28 03:18 phf: asciilifeform: my point was that feature phones are not particularly good at their claimed purpose, that buying an old nokia is a hemingwriter, and compared to them iphone has a good sound quality.
phf: unlike the nokia though this t139 sound quality doesn't suck, so i retract my previous statements!
mircea_popescu: !!up cblgh
deedbot: cblgh voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: ahaha when did you show up
mircea_popescu: i've been here all day.
ben_vulpes: not you lol
ben_vulpes: anyways cblgh logs are in channel title, if you're going to not wash out at least register a gpg key with deedbot
ben_vulpes: phf: you know me so well
ben_vulpes: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-N90-Type-RM-42-Smartphone-Cellular-Collectible-GSM-Mobile-N-Series-Vintage/132438876949?epid=100040237&hash=item1ed5f8e315:g:MvYAAOSwDKtY2ZB1 << shit was my jam in 06
phf: you want to be ready for when "i don't have a smartphone" thing is in full swing in portland. you can be a full blown hipster avantguard
phf: haha, that's pretty cool, reminds me of transformers my parents brought me from amsterdam in the early 90s
ben_vulpes: a) don't live there or care too much about barista fashion anymore b) already lead that charge by toting the mp01 for a few months c) wake me up when "i don't have facebook" is actually popular
ben_vulpes: phf: total transformerphone
ben_vulpes: had display on the outside, could read texts without opening the thing. had google maps; internet over cell; a marvelous little device. great camera for the time as well.
ben_vulpes: actually just dug out some photos from that era, oh gracious me. macs with cameras were all the rage and boy howdy did we have fun taking photos of ourselves misbehaving.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, does anyone know how to beat a trb into coughing up the actual raw transaction it sent?
ben_vulpes: aside from dumping the mempool and parsing each?
mircea_popescu: suck it out of the add-to-mempool procedure
phf: you mean any and all transactions, or just wallet transactions you generated?
ben_vulpes: phf: the latter
mircea_popescu: anyway, in re smartphone, kids today have seriously diminished executive function, roughly speaking incapable of communicating in any manner other than arbitrary-app-reimplementing-irc
mircea_popescu: most of them are too anxious to actually answer a phonecall (too much pressure! i only talk to my parents!) ; most of them are actually unaware of the web as such.
mircea_popescu: let alone the internet.
mircea_popescu: in short, two thirds or so of the neet population would actually meet mongoloid criteria cca 1917.
ben_vulpes: even pantsuits know: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/
phf: ben_vulpes: you could hook somewhere like hereabouts http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/wallet.cpp#L1117 to open a new file and << wtxNew to it
mircea_popescu: neglect has destroyed a generation. when 50yos don't fuck 15yos culture takes a hike.
mircea_popescu: there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
ben_vulpes: phf: i was thinking something in this area http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#L1320
ben_vulpes: and cwallettx has the kooky IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE so it should be possible to hex to stdout through the rpc machinery?
phf: yeah, it'll automagically serialize itself when you put it into stream (obviously not hex, but raw binary)
phf: that gettransaction code seems to do everything that you want, you could probably just have something like "dumptransaction <txid> <destination>" and then it'll write to destination (and bail if destination exists)
ben_vulpes: sure, could be reasonable to dump to <txid>.bin in my mind as well
ben_vulpes: s/could be/is/
ben_vulpes: eh, insufficiently explicit
phf: i think correct method would really be to get the transaction out as a binary array into shiva, and then have a transaction parser in shiva itself that'll break it down into a sexp or whatever
mircea_popescu: !!up BingoBoingo_
deedbot: BingoBoingo_ voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone with a twitter acct still ?
shinohai: I got mine back mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: see if @bridneus wants to work for eulora ?
ben_vulpes: "A federal judge declared a mistrial wednesay in the riminal conspiracy case against rancher Cliven Bundy and three other defendants, saying government laywers suppressed key evidence..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-declares-mistrial-in-case-against-rancher-cliven-bundy-sons-and-militiaman/2017/12/20/49d91c24-e5c8-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755692 << think about it: no need to look at screen
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 00:54 ben_vulpes: you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
asciilifeform: same reason why normal kbd is great, while 'virtual' is agony
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 01:38 mircea_popescu: there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, what is the context for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755741 problem ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 02:17 ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755750 << consider http://trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/#comment-123260 ; how do you distinguish wordmagic 1 from wordmagic2 as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755597 ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 03:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755730 << africans have problems talking ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 00:07 ben_vulpes: i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
mircea_popescu: !!up Cerber248
deedbot: Cerber248 voiced for 30 minutes.
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODErlpxbbo: gribble lobbesbot de
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEuexlrbx: webbyz pete_dushenski ave1 lobbesbot kjj asciilifeform adlai whaack shinohai jhvh1 mats mod6 tb0t Framedragger
mircea_popescu: lol still ?
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgstuxett: gribble mimisbrunnr manamex whaack webbyz candi_l
mircea_popescu: !down Cerber248
mircea_popescu: !!down Cerber248
mircea_popescu: kinda old news.
mircea_popescu: what ~exactly~ is "complaining" gonna do ?
shinohai: I guess the world needed a spambot for that
mircea_popescu: african fucktards.
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16885.93, vol: 25794.54155397 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16841.0, vol: 67097.14176572 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16470.0, vol: 4690.64507853 | Volume-weighted last average: 16835.0431779
mircea_popescu: !~calc 20 / 16835.0431779
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 20 / 16835.0431779 = 0.001187998141059404