Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-11-07 | 2017-11-09 →
mircea_popescu: hear hear
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ahahaha what the fuck, anyone even supports the "inclusive" pantsuit aggenda ?
BingoBoingo: Only the cuntcovers industry does!
mircea_popescu: amusingly, this is oddly reminescent of the whole
a111: Logged on 2015-09-02 00:34 mircea_popescu: (in kbr's case, it's not that they're stupid, it's that they were raped. the classic "we provide indemnity so now you may not not break the law as we tell you to" trick. "key is in your pocket" in legal parlance)
mircea_popescu: "she has only to speak up and agree with us!!11"
mircea_popescu: as fucking if ?
BingoBoingo: Srsly, thankfully she likes making money more than being friends with the rest of the Brittneychain
mircea_popescu: which i expect is by now pretty butthurt out of sheer hunger.
BingoBoingo: Well, benefits of corruption
BingoBoingo: In other lols, NYC just damned themselves to another DeBlasio term
BingoBoingo: !!Up cruciform
deedbot: cruciform voiced for 30 minutes.
cruciform: I was reading Paul Sztorc's blog (, surpised at his level of insight. Made sense once I got to one of many trilema references
BingoBoingo: Well, he's been here before
BingoBoingo: Failed at the "Keep coming back" part
cruciform: yea, couldn't find him in the WoT
BingoBoingo: Well, he failed at knowing to register when it was suggested to him
a111: Logged on 2015-09-23 03:26 mircea_popescu: ie Paul Sztorc ?
BingoBoingo: Excellent use of the oil
BingoBoingo: One of the great shames is that now, when I plan on leaving th coop, the pretty girls seem to finally be sobering up
shinohai: <<< Happy Independence Day mod6 y todos! ^.^
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 03:37 mod6: Mr. Popescu, Lords, and General Assembly: Today, I'd like to take a moment to observe and congratulate The Most Serene Republic on it's Third Independence Day!
shinohai: <<< This Combs guy is hilarious "teh ENCRYPTIONS"
mircea_popescu: << incidentally it occurs to me shinohai 's link is the definitive solution to the concentration camp problem. vacupacking the entire us population would probably cost < 1bn in materials.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-06 16:55 shinohai: Got you a native packed and ready to go:
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 03:37 mod6: Mr. Popescu, Lords, and General Assembly: Today, I'd like to take a moment to observe and congratulate The Most Serene Republic on it's Third Independence Day!
mircea_popescu: build vacupack units, keep them fed with biomaterial (plastic, schmucks), dump the results at sea. a 100tdw ship should be able to carry 1mn of the shitheads at a time.
mircea_popescu: sea dumping in plastic wrapping ensures they dissolve over time, sort-of like a slow release pill for the ocean.
mircea_popescu: and with that... problem solved.
mircea_popescu: one summer or something.
shinohai: Should I assemble a ship and crew?
mircea_popescu: eh, what's the rush.
shinohai: One could produce the plastic from corn, reducing costs perhaps and ensuring biodegradability.
asciilifeform: they'll outgas, pop
asciilifeform: needs relief valve.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform plastic dun pop. hence your coca cola bottle.
asciilifeform: bottle takes 2-3 atm
asciilifeform: bag - prolly not
mircea_popescu: can be made to, certainly.
asciilifeform: ( anyone seen old films of elephant carcass rotting in the sun ? eventually explodes, spectacularly )
asciilifeform: at any rate i have nfi why the bag. brick, chain. feed the fishes.
mircea_popescu: there's more tolerance built into the pack you know, than into the skin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't want to feed the fishes too much at a time.
shinohai: Would cause a mess of algae!
mircea_popescu: and a coupla kgs of plastic WAY cheaper than 10kg chain + 50kg brick
mircea_popescu: redditard already buried more than his ass is worth in resources.
mircea_popescu: this method allows perfectly dehumanizing death, safe transportation, slow release, it's the proper continuation of lime pit.
mircea_popescu: can even have hello kitty or kek flag or whatever the fuck warhol can paint the dreamers require.
asciilifeform: betcha decomposition in bauxite processor ( bzzzt -- pfff ) costs fewer joules than transport to sea.
mircea_popescu: naaah. transport is cheap.
mircea_popescu: few thousand bux per million.
asciilifeform: did diesel cheapen while i slept
asciilifeform: tho i suppose it depends where in the sea, from where
mircea_popescu: well what, you're not taking them on a fucking cruise. coupla hundred knots offshore.
mircea_popescu: will replenish the cod off cape cod something fantastic, too!
shinohai: As long as producing plastic from corn, perhaps biodiesel also
asciilifeform: carcasses have annoying habit of sailing back to shore
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not these. see, they only pop in 6 to 36 months when they're well outgassed.
asciilifeform: pop yes , but they float 2-3 wks in
mircea_popescu: this might well be a problem. will require some research.
asciilifeform: i suggest 'trocar'
asciilifeform: ( mortician's needle )
asciilifeform: for outgas valve.
mircea_popescu: might well work yeah. stick in knee automatically at time of packaging.
shinohai: Post on reddit "Free cruise on the S.S. TMSR! For details go to #trilema on freenode!"
shinohai: (Though doesn't have to be Single-Screw steamship)
asciilifeform: it goes in the gut, where most of the gas generation.
mircea_popescu: normally. but this is exceptional time.
BingoBoingo: Now is floating bag *really* a problem? Or a warning
BingoBoingo: Hay mas futuro!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo moar like a sign of victory.
mircea_popescu: "i wouldn't live on a place where reddit bags aren't visible from shore"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if they simply float back, not much point in the boat, eh. may as well then stack'em as pyramid, like chingis khan
mircea_popescu: end up on people's arms and shit.
mircea_popescu: "my great-grandfather was clipper on a redditard disposition ship, beotch!!11"
BingoBoingo: Anyways, to make up for outgassing without floating, you'd just have to sink the bags deeper... if you really wanted to
mircea_popescu: anyway. let it be plainly stated that current idiot's expectation they'll be shot is about as ridiculous as 1940s jews'. who the fuck can be bothered.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo depth just increases buoyancy.
asciilifeform: precedent -- french did not even bother with bags
mircea_popescu: yes, depth pressure will keep the plastic from popping ; but not from floating.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's an ecological consideration. cheaper than burning etc.
asciilifeform: speaking of them barges
asciilifeform: !#s noyade
shinohai: iirc Muslims prescribed lashing body buried at sea between two wooden planks, so that it might float ashore and be buried by fellow Muslim facing Mecca.
mircea_popescu: the killing itself is a minor part of the problem. coupla cents budgeted at most.
mircea_popescu: the majority of the expense goes to making the corpse "Safe", sterilizing it.
mircea_popescu: something the "planning experts" germans never throught of.
mircea_popescu: the problem with a dead idiot is that it converts upon dying from a large piece of excrement into a large piece of actual excrement.
asciilifeform: biodiesel is promising imho field.
BingoBoingo: Hey, people just want to be shitty
mircea_popescu: maybe ; though all the bones and shit....
mircea_popescu: biodisel would be winner if we were intelligent celenterates or gasteropodes. for mammals not so hot.
asciilifeform: grind bones for fertilizer. iirc there was a thread.
mircea_popescu: calcium not so much of a fertilizer.
mircea_popescu: back in ro i used ash fertilizer, it was de-boned prior to packing.
asciilifeform: the bauxite thing begins to look like a winner imho
mircea_popescu: nah. the burning's resource-expensive.
asciilifeform: ( you still gotta dump the ash somewhere tho )
BingoBoingo: Yeah, bone meal's this thing used sparingly for tomatoes to prevent blossom end rot. Specialty stuff for picky plants. Otherwise it's just more salt.
mircea_popescu: the correct move is to take the dreamers from the section of earth inhabited (land) to the section of land uninhabited (sea) with a minimum of dirt and contamination produced.
asciilifeform: and naturally you do it somewhere with cheap mains current ( the bauxiteries are helpfully situated there already )
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "cheap mains current". it's expensive universally.
asciilifeform: cheap relatively to fueling the boat.
asciilifeform: and imho there's no particular reason there could not be 'market economy' in redditor disposal.
asciilifeform: 'we do it cheaper!'
asciilifeform: 'we do first 1,000 phree'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, the per-kg energetic cost of incineration is > 1MJ. this means 100 tons cost you over 100 GJ, or in fuel terms about a ton of gasoline. you can't be spending 1% by mass ffs.
asciilifeform: was speaking of arc furnace.
asciilifeform: dun think it costs anything like MJ.
mircea_popescu: because why, thermodynamics is your friend and suddenly corpse isn't ~= water soaked aerogel ?
asciilifeform: !~calc 2260 * 50
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 2260 * 50 = 113000
asciilifeform: kJ for 50kg patient
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu has it
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile! container ship burns ~200 tons per day doing 25 knots. this means it covers 200 knots (go and return) out of 150 tons or so.
asciilifeform: heat of vapourization of kg of water
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you omit adding the heat to WARM water to vaporization ?
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4360 * 80 * 50
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4360 * 80 * 50 = 17440000
mircea_popescu: forgot this larger lobe right here.
asciilifeform: what's the 80 ?
mircea_popescu: i guess 63.4 would be more accurate.
mircea_popescu: gotta take them from room temp to boiling.
asciilifeform: speaking of dessication, why not sahara dump ?
asciilifeform: as good as sea, neh
mircea_popescu: conceivable, yes. but much more distant. gotta load and then unload, move on land, meh.
mircea_popescu: ocean is conveniently located everywhere.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 14:48 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo depth just increases buoyancy.
mircea_popescu: the deeper a mol of gas is, the greater the buoyant force experienced by the flexible container holding it.
asciilifeform: depends on whether compressible object, neh
mircea_popescu: not linearly, but yes.
mircea_popescu: the reason deep things seem to raise "slowly" is because friction, which increases faster than the buoyancy force does.
davout: the gas gets compressed, therefore moves less water, therefore less buoyant
mircea_popescu: yes, but do teh math! doesn't get compressed ~enough~.
mircea_popescu: gets somewhat compressed.
davout: 1L of air gets to .5L at 10m depth, experiences mucho less force pushing it up
asciilifeform: still net up.
davout: yeah, obviously
mircea_popescu: davout it's a log. you are looking at the wrong side of this.
mircea_popescu: from 5km to 10km, loses 13% of volume, gains 2x force.
davout: but upward force decreases as depth increases
davout: its not linear obviously
mircea_popescu: but that is the important part.
davout: which is why most baro-traumatisms occur between 10m-0m when scuba diving
mircea_popescu: but we're not shallow burrying idiots here
davout: yeah, just saying "depth increases buoyancy" is not correct
mircea_popescu: it is within the context it was used!!!11
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 14:47 BingoBoingo: Anyways, to make up for outgassing without floating, you'd just have to sink the bags deeper... if you really wanted to
davout: yeah, marginal gains of depth do decrease
davout: naive question, but why no burning?
davout: wouldn't it self-sustain after a while?
mircea_popescu: to do the math properly :
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4360 * 63.4 + 2260
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4360 * 63.4 + 2260 = 278684
mircea_popescu: the cost of ~mere vaporization~ of the ~mere water~ in the "water soaked aerogel" composing a shithead is ~280kJ PER KILOGRAM.
mircea_popescu: this disregards any losses due to the aerogel part, which insulates, and also any further losses from "boiling is not enough", as well as passive loss of heat into your apparatus etc.
mircea_popescu: thereby a lowball estimate of "heat to dispose of one" is probably in excess of 30MJ per capita, as opposed to the 1MJ originally estimated above.
davout: and how much energy does the burning generate once water is gone?
mircea_popescu: at the outer margin half a mj ?
mircea_popescu: there;s a reason all bodies rot and no bodies catch fire.
mircea_popescu: cheap way to evaluate this is dietary calories (the conversion is based on ... heat capacity of water again). so basically 1 calorie is 4.2j and the caloric value of untrimmed carcass MAYBE 1 cal/gram. thereby... 100kgs = 420kj.
mircea_popescu: (protein is ~4, sweets ~7, alcohol~9... so if you take a serious alcohol-only meal prior maybe reach the .5mj)
asciilifeform: btw somewhere in the l0gz are the crematory manuals i linked few yrs back
asciilifeform: they have detailed discussion
asciilifeform: ( in particular re the effect of fat )
asciilifeform: redditus may in fact be suitable for self-sustaining fire in a way ww2 folx were not.
asciilifeform: ancient persia had an answer for the 'aerogel insulates' problem. they stuck wicks, of a sort, in the patient, and lit'em
mircea_popescu: dirty and slow.
mircea_popescu notices he had protein and sweets switched around. aaanyways
mircea_popescu: !!pay diana_coman .75
asciilifeform: in other lulz, amazon co nao offering... i shit thee not, 'Not at home? Not a problem. As a Prime member, you can get packages securely delivered into your home without being there. Plus, grant access to the people you trust, like your family, friends, dog walker, or house cleaner—no more leaving a key under the mat.' << 'cloud'-controlled door lock.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall when post-war commies did the whole "you gotta take so and so people into "your" house because it's ours and we house people there" ? what gnashing of teeth, what anger it caused ?
mircea_popescu: apparently all they had to do is call it "prime"
asciilifeform: i suppose the breaking-doors thing was deemed arduous, traumatic, costly
asciilifeform: better to train the cattle to open on own power.
mircea_popescu: as per above discussion lol.
asciilifeform: and what post-war
asciilifeform: communal flats were a thing in su from 20s up
asciilifeform: i even got to live in the (tail end) of one.
mircea_popescu: well, i was talking about european countries.
mircea_popescu: the "liberated"
asciilifeform: well su naturally didn't happen in ro until post ww2 yea
asciilifeform: incidentally asciilifeform is currently puzzled re what exactly happened in '45-'47 in ro
asciilifeform: under king mihai
asciilifeform: ( who, incidentally, last i heard was alive still )
mircea_popescu: sure he is.
mircea_popescu: well, what, shall i produce an ad hoc history lesson ?
asciilifeform: link worx too
mircea_popescu: you really think there exista another romanian scholar ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, lessee
mircea_popescu: romania had a great king, carol 1st. he was a scion of carol of hohenzollern and maria murat. romania also had three shitty kings : ferdinand, carol 2 and mihai, in decreasing order of shittytude -- the first one was like a librarian, inept but disciplined. these come off leopold and some portuguese infanta. MUCH worse material.
mircea_popescu: the switch happened because the original carol didn't have children. which happened because "marriage", dumbest fucking shit ever. but we digress.
mircea_popescu: the 2nd carol was very much a redditard. he quit to pursue his whoring interests, leaving the congenitally retarded mihai "on the throne". this is through and through power vacuum. eventually he returned, and tried to be a sort of local mussolini, tho it didn't so much catch.
mircea_popescu: romania got meanwhile engaged on the eastern front by general antonescu, who was literally as he describes himself, a military man being sucked into a power vacuum and trying to do best could be done.
mircea_popescu: entirely ineptly led german war effort, very poorly supplied, resulted in an untenable military situation at the don's bend : romanian forces were out of ammunition, out of fuel, out of anything. the russians counterattacked the two sections held by romanians, and killed a quarter million people.
asciilifeform: to run out of fuel, for army of ~the~ petrostan of europe, is quite a feat
mircea_popescu: german management.
mircea_popescu: the reason specifically they did that had nothing to do with hating the romanians or thinking they suck (which they didn't, on the contrary, germans even had german troops under romanian command) was that general sanatescu gave out the whole order of battle + everything else to the russians.
mircea_popescu: as a result, the victorious revolutionaries found themselves in '45 in a dubious situation : they had absolutely no political legitimacy. outside of mihai, who was mentally incompetent then as now, but whose two aunts were very willing to sell out ; and sanatescu, who didn't think much of them (for cause), they had ~no one in bucharest.
mircea_popescu: so they cut a deal with mihai (an amusing episode in itself, mihai was very much krammer in that negotiation episode, "we offer free lifetime cappucinos and,,," "ILL TAKE IT!!!1", and made a govt with sanatescu.
mircea_popescu: from there on they forged an alliance with petru groza, a sorta-maybe left (less so than today's xtian democrats for instance) with some popular appeal, pretended to have won the election on ~43% of the vote, then leaned on individual ministers to play along, then scoured the prisons for credible ministalins. picked gheorghe gheorghiu dej and that was mostly it, they withdrew.
mircea_popescu: this is ~the whole story of soviet colonization of romania.
asciilifeform: sounds almost exactly same story as hungary
mircea_popescu: just about.
asciilifeform: ty for the mini-article mircea_popescu . it makes sense.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the russian secular view of romania is a sort of balanced chechenia-japan mix.
asciilifeform: howsthat
mircea_popescu: "fucking scary batshing insane barbarians of tiny size and austrian palaces. NIGGA WHAT?>!>!>!!!?"
asciilifeform: dunno, at least from my perch common d00d's pov was 'europistan-lite', 'less retarded than us because at least slightly farther in magic compass direction'
mircea_popescu: not altogether an un-understandable or for that matter incorrect view. moreover, owing to romania's incredible literary sterility as manifested as a long term sustained inability to meaningfully write themselves...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im trying to condense together a period starting in 1850.
mircea_popescu: including you know, the "pls halp" telegram, the turning of that war, the strange situation of ww1, the taking of odessa and march on rome, it's a complicated century.
asciilifeform: 'literary sterility' in this case i suspect comes from being very new to 'being country' -- not so much literature from finland, for instance, likewise
asciilifeform: if your best literators learn french and move to paris -- problem.
asciilifeform: ( ionesco in particular comes to mind )
asciilifeform: rather like the literary-sterility of, e.g., nebraska in usa.
asciilifeform: what kind of literate man wants to stay in nebraska.
mircea_popescu: this is nonsense, romania was culturally powerful before the us was discovered, in numerous instantiations.
asciilifeform: folx living in what is today romania. but did they do it 'under flag' of romania ?
asciilifeform: iirc in mircea_popescu's piece just the other day was 'caragiale didn't need no stinking flag'
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make a difference.
mircea_popescu: i don't care dimitrie cantemir's writings were "under flag of moldavia" or "Wallachia" or "greater kekistan"
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem isn't creators, that romania has. the problem is romania itself, as dumbly impermeable as fresh clay.
asciilifeform: common feature of all agraristans neh
mircea_popescu: there's two prongs that drive to "i understand empire france by reading balzac" : 1. that balzac writes and 2. that the whole fucking world buys his foilletons.
mircea_popescu: romania's problem is 2 not 1.
asciilifeform: the english managed to solve 2 without making any dent in 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much so, yes, and especially of this worst agraristan of all, "we're still wearing same clothes as roman colonists 2000 years ago and really speak the same language and fuck you"
asciilifeform: ( and nao their rubbish is everywhere to this day )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly.
mircea_popescu: but trilema is many things, and among them a very pointed exercise in this discussion.
asciilifeform: i could think of worse things to be than 'time capsule' of old roman periphery tho.
mircea_popescu: i deliberately took to employing a classical renaissance procedure, of re-writing. that i rewrote a bunch of classical works and the whole set of "Specialists" did not find themselves under a life-or-death obligation to drop everything they were doing and pick up this is one thing
mircea_popescu: but i, and on multiple occasions, rewrote the work of LIVING AUTHORS. with their knowledge, that never amounted to more than a piddly comment on the trilema article in question.
asciilifeform: but somehow when old shakespeare does it , 'mega-writer'
mircea_popescu: think of this for a moment -- you, joe schmoe, write something. and someone comes and changes it. and you... HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem of 2, and it is as deep as it gets. mentally isolated, solitary lonely lost dorks.
mircea_popescu: can't meaningfully interact with a dog, let alone their wife, let alone you know, chtulhu from the depths of the abyss.
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's pov this is what culture ~is~ -- when ben_vulpes writes own vtron, or mircea_popescu makes own jazz riff on asciilifeform's 'chumps' article, or the various other.
asciilifeform: the basic problem of agrarians -- insufficient fire under the heels
mircea_popescu: on one of the trips, i had slut stop car on side of river while i took pics. fresh mud, inexperienced offroad driver, car got mudded.
mircea_popescu: the wheel turned as well as ever ... but the car... it didn't move.
mircea_popescu: mud, romania.
mircea_popescu: very "conservative" and "tolerant" people, they call themselves. it's true, but the problem is the mud fits this definition.
asciilifeform: ( meanwhile, in very vintage lulz -- >> 'Когда милиция устраивала облаву, в доме вырубали электричество. Импортные видаки без света не отдавали кассету с запретным видео. А у ВМ-12 был привод на пружинке, работал без энергии. Поэтому хо
asciilifeform: зяин салона успевал вынуть кассету с эротикой и спрятать - за показ таких фильмов давали три года.' )
asciilifeform: ( re why folx bought sov-made vcr, in preference to better-quality sony. answ : it had spring-powered cassette ejector, cops cut mains current when busting 'pr0n house' but could still get rid of the tape, in sov vcr )
mircea_popescu: wait, is pron house brothel ?
asciilifeform: nah just folx partying with tapes
mircea_popescu: you mean, folks over the age of 14 ?!
asciilifeform: penalty nominally 3y imprisonment
mircea_popescu: this is some of the dumbest shit i ever heard. why not have women ?
asciilifeform: ask the arabs ? or whatever monkeys just recently discovered pr0n
mircea_popescu: i am (i guess?) proud to say that ro pron party included womenz to my knowledge. wtf is the point without, they jack off on the zacusci ?
asciilifeform: ( process seems to resemble chukchas discovering vodka )
asciilifeform: and i suspect that the story dwells on the cassette because being in a room full of chix, who may nor may not be whoring, was generally not an indictable crime
asciilifeform: whereas 'magic tape' was .
mircea_popescu: thanks, i was having serious wtfx.
asciilifeform: tho fwiw i have nfi whether they had chix in attendance , or sat like redditors in modern american dormitory, salivating . asciilifeform familiar with the period largely through myth & legend.
mircea_popescu: anyway, wouldn't usually be room fulla chicks, unless in some narrow cases. generally the way this works is usualyl 2, rarely 1 if the men are poor or 3 if the men are showoffs, whores and however many men can stand each other, usually 8 +- 3
trinque remembers a time from his youth when drunk, chick puts on porn in group mixed company, figures hey, we're gonna fuck, proceeds as such.
trinque: much to the shock of all
mircea_popescu: they drink, watch porn, gangbang. it's a "fishing trip"
trinque: it was times like these I realized what a sad place I lived in
asciilifeform: trinque: why sad ? sounds like happy memory neh
mircea_popescu: trinque why ? didn;'t take ?
trinque: nah bunch of liberal cunts "omg what? no!"
mircea_popescu: so kick them out.
trinque: wasn't my place; kicked myself out with one of their bottles
mircea_popescu: also works.
trinque: ben_vulpes has commented on this cognitive dissonance among the feminist cunts in portland. will go to the stripclub to signal lack of patriarchy something something, but find prostitution abhorrent
mircea_popescu: tell them it doesn't count untill they kiss the dancer's slit.
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: one of the better lulz re this happened at c3, in ba. bucnha us at a large table at this dinner-and-tango places, someone brought along some blondy german chick, i dun recal who
mircea_popescu: and she wanted a drink and the waiter came over to ask me and i said sure and she was all "why is he asking you ?"
mircea_popescu: "why do you think ?"
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing that scored one for teh patriarchy.
trinque: << inexcuably rude, not knowing how that works
a111: Logged on 2017-05-14 16:50 trinque: then two women at table wail "oh he didn't shake our hands"
asciilifeform: lol iirc ben_vulpes's chix
mircea_popescu: i can't recall now if this was the same chich some elements in the { ben_vulpes , davout } set might've fucked at some later point.
mircea_popescu: since trinque had me re,read << i am happy to report dood actually gave us a lift later on. his car was fulla various condiments.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-14 16:51 mircea_popescu: the (very indian) chef of great local place actually came out of kitchen to see these two people who were eating all the stuff i rodered ; but couldn't summon the courage to more than bow from a distance and scurry off.
mircea_popescu: apparently he goes through the caudine forks to supply his kitchen with proper stuffs.
davout: <<< it does beat "your house lock on the ethereum chain"
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 16:05 asciilifeform: in other lulz, amazon co nao offering... i shit thee not, 'Not at home? Not a problem. As a Prime member, you can get packages securely delivered into your home without being there. Plus, grant access to the people you trust, like your family, friends, dog walker, or house cleaner—no more leaving a key under the mat.' << 'cloud'-controlled door lock.
asciilifeform: davout: the distinction is lost on me
davout: you're not missing much tbh
asciilifeform: oh btw re thread >> apparently it was a straight clone of hruschev-era 'Север' .
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 01:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'fram, ursul polar' -- the ancient ЗИЛ-like fridge in 'museum of communist konsoomer' is a 'fram'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the world of 31333337 w4r3z and trials in absentia, >> 'The American Chemical Society (ACS) has won a lawsuit against the pirate research-paper website Sci-Hub ... ordered Sci-Hub's operators to pay the ACS US$4.8 million ... The judge also ordered that any party “in active concert or participation” with Sci-Hub should “cease facilitating” access to the repository. This means that the AC
asciilifeform: S could request Internet services including web providers, search engines and domain-name registrars to stop linking or to block access to Sci-Hub and the various domains it is hosted under.'
asciilifeform: 'Such an order by a US court is exceptional, Carroll says. “In general, our federal courts do not have the power to issue orders against people or entities that were not part of the lawsuit.” But he adds that US federal rules for civil procedures such as this do sometimes allow injunctions against persons who are in ‘active participation’ with an enjoined party. The current lawsuit is an example of that, he says.'
asciilifeform: plus 'Commenting is currently unavailable.'
asciilifeform: just when delish phreee giveaway of btc was so close!11
asciilifeform muchly enjoyed the last idjitphork
ben_vulpes: mthreat's chica i believa
mod6: davout: thx for posting
asciilifeform: !~seen mthreat
jhvh1: asciilifeform: I have not seen mthreat.
mod6: ben_vulpes: aha, yeah, i think that's correct
asciilifeform: !#seen mthreat
a111: 2017-04-01 <mthreat> ya the -800 is pretty new right
ben_vulpes: but very friendly
ben_vulpes: "the most natural thing"
trinque: !!ticker market --all
trinque: not even close eh
trinque: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: trinque: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7650.89, vol: 15621.46032284 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7730.0, vol: 56197.5670289 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7655.1, vol: 4215.77288223 | Volume-weighted last average: 7709.59388188
ben_vulpes: shit damn
mod6: aha
asciilifeform: lol! still >0 !
asciilifeform: what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7753.42, vol: 16000.49915005 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7788.8, vol: 57699.4896064 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7729.5, vol: 4246.09943359 | Volume-weighted last average: 7778.30696083
asciilifeform: notbad.jpg
asciilifeform: lol orig link ddos-dead
trinque: now at $360.13 (-73.15%)
asciilifeform: the brick has lost its wings.
mod6: thx shinohai
asciilifeform: !#seen mike_c
a111: 2017-09-11 <mike_c> congrats! I did that a long time ago too. Good luck with it.
asciilifeform: !#seen Framedragger
a111: 2017-10-06 <Framedragger> yes but someone committing to the project without having the necessary time is not far away from malice, imho
trinque: graph of folks that didn't get the news over time
asciilifeform: to the antimoon!!
davout: <<< logic is that on some platform that offered "prefork coin splitting" the prefork-SW2X-coinz are needed to merge with the prefork-actual-bitcoin in order to have a prefork-full-bitcoin
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 17:42 asciilifeform: what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
davout: people buying them do so in order to be able to withdraw from platforms immediately without waiting for the contract expiration on nov. 16th
davout: therefore, nonzero value
asciilifeform: lol 280, somebody... ~buying~
asciilifeform: prolly for the reason davout explained. rerun of goxcoin.
asciilifeform: ( whatever happened to goxcoin ? )
trinque: sold mine to that btcbuilder bag holder for a huge haircut
davout: will converge to perceived risk pricing of leaving buttcoin on a platform until contract expiration
davout: goxcoin procedures still ongoing i hear
shinohai: <<< Some retarded feminists are giving away sex toys "because men orgasm more than women" or something
shinohai: Is this good for buttplugcoin?
mircea_popescu: << and, evidently, anyone gives a shit what the usg does. because hurr.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 17:20 asciilifeform: 'Such an order by a US court is exceptional, Carroll says. “In general, our federal courts do not have the power to issue orders against people or entities that were not part of the lawsuit.” But he adds that US federal rules for civil procedures such as this do sometimes allow injunctions against persons who are in ‘active participation’ with an enjoined party. The current lawsuit is an example of that, he says.'
mircea_popescu: << less thick than the previous set, i guess.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 17:30 davout: so apparently the segwit2x derps finally yielded
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 17:33 ben_vulpes: mthreat's chica i believa
mircea_popescu: << the logic of numbers someone printed on a website is "when did they last summon the energy to edit the file"
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 17:42 asciilifeform: what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: the german?
mircea_popescu: no, mthreat's girl.
ben_vulpes: the german, who is under discussion, came with mthreat
ben_vulpes: not necessarily 'his girl'
mircea_popescu: you know what, i think you're right actually.
ben_vulpes: will wonders never cease
mircea_popescu: << this is a fundamental property of sexuate species.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 18:19 shinohai: <<< Some retarded feminists are giving away sex toys "because men orgasm more than women" or something
shinohai: But hey free buttplugs!
mircea_popescu: this is like "free hubcaps!!!". if i can buy a car i don't need anyone's hubcaps wtf.
asciilifeform: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7241.03, vol: 22876.12064007 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7164.3, vol: 88327.80680416 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7204.6, vol: 5417.66588459 | Volume-weighted last average: 7181.22325251
asciilifeform: !~calc 7241 * 11000
jhvh1: asciilifeform: 7241 * 11000 = 79651000
asciilifeform: notbad.spam
mircea_popescu: hey, modest man.
asciilifeform: tho i suspect somebody hasn't updated his spamatron since 2010 or so
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform registered on the 7th current ie yest
asciilifeform: then gotta wonder, wai only promise 80 megabuxorz worth of coin, why not 9000.
mircea_popescu: Roman Pashkevich ul.Koshkina, d.15, kv.4 Moskva.
asciilifeform: and how one even goes about picking such a figure.
mircea_popescu: amusing fellow, also has "1-milion-rubley" and so on
asciilifeform: lol that's less than a toyota
mircea_popescu: (also published physicist of same name -- i suspect the father)
mircea_popescu: tis the name that caught the eye
mircea_popescu: <<>> << a study in usg-independent "technology".
mircea_popescu: exactly like the silicon valley variant in all points.
mircea_popescu: shinohai nah, that's more sophisticated.
shinohai likes how they bother with cloudflare, yet leak true ip due to mis-configured mail server
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i find amusing the, eg, "suv" toyota recently waxed and parked in mud in front of a cheap brick wall. evidently, "vehemently opulent pork sausages".
mircea_popescu: shinohai sadly, nobody does any schooling with the independent minded young'uns.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, eulora player complains about game generated name. "it sounds like a pornstar!"
mircea_popescu: the name in question being, baldwin lushdrizzle.
shinohai: Googling `lushdrizzle` returns mostly lemon caek results, no pornstars.
shinohai: I am disappoint.
mircea_popescu: i would propose this is because pornstars lack imagination not because the name lacks suggestiveness.
shinohai: I got pretty lucky with my generated Eulora name, was happy with it.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 20:43 mircea_popescu: the name in question being, baldwin lushdrizzle.
lobbes: note to n00bs out there: even if you had set your key to NOT expire, remember to *self-sign* both your pub AND your sub (and make sure people have copies of this updated pubkey))
lobbes: thanks to trinque to his patience with me while I figured all that out the hard way
mircea_popescu: what happened, your sub expired ? detailz.
lobbes: all good now, but I had set my primary pub to not expire I think a year ago. But of course, I neglected to push this updated key to either keyservers or to, for example, deedbot
lobbes: rookie mistake
lobbes: and yeah, I overlooked that I apparently had to also remove expiration on the sub -explicitly- (via gpg --edit-key). Even though it was showing the sub as 'expiration: none' after I had removed expiration on the pub way back when
mircea_popescu: myeah, kinda unreliable apparatus.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Я их специально скрыл под замком, для того чтобы отсеять зевак и прохожих.' << lel
asciilifeform: afaik we dun use 'key servers' for anything no moar
asciilifeform: << in other fritzchip lulz
mircea_popescu: notrly, no. koch-gpg iotself though.
asciilifeform: only if you pull by fp
asciilifeform: which why wouldyou.
asciilifeform: fpism is braindamaged.
davout: what's wrong with long fps again?
asciilifeform: fwiw i never pushed my final gpg key to sks, and have nfi if it's there or not
asciilifeform: davout: it's a sha1
asciilifeform: and cannot be changed per the rfc.
davout: ah right
davout: pull by full key then!11 genius!
asciilifeform: pull by getting key... from people
trinque: deedbot doesn't use keyservers no, so it didn't know he updated his key
davout: asciilifeform: yeah, or use sane hash
asciilifeform: this is The Right Thing
asciilifeform: davout: YOU CANNOT USE SANE HASH WITH GPG FP
asciilifeform: rfc specified sha1.
mircea_popescu: at no point was this discussion about key identifiers. the fact that gpg reports "no expiration" FALSELY, as it reports all sorts of false or otherwise stupid, misleading etc non-facts is at issue
mircea_popescu: koch-gpg is an unreliable apparatus in the vein of random-shooting pistols etc.
trinque: 100%
asciilifeform: it's approx on par with the old chinese leather cannon, even chance of exploding
davout: asciilifeform: i'm not speaking about gpg as its currently-existing braindamaged implementation of a shaky protocol
asciilifeform: davout: speaking in general of all even vaguely pgp-like compatibles
asciilifeform: all stuck with sha1 4evah
asciilifeform: there's no provision for changing the fp algo.
davout: point is, if done properly fingerprints, when done properly, are a +ev proposition
asciilifeform: i disagree
asciilifeform: lemme dig out the thread
davout: few days ago amirite
davout: ok, not same one then, plox to link
a111: Logged on 2017-08-15 22:24 asciilifeform: likewise we had the fingerprint thread
asciilifeform: ( has links to earliers )
davout: ok lol, will read
davout: ty
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 05:27 asciilifeform: the only sane 'fingerprint' is the entire modulus+exponent.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
mircea_popescu: 512 chars as the case may be, but anyway.
asciilifeform: moar if people get to pick own exponent
davout: 512 bytes, will be 1024 chars
davout: + exponent as asciilifeform points out, which iirc is to be 'large' as well
asciilifeform: 1024 byte all.
davout: so 2048 hex chars
davout: i do get the points about hashes being voodoo black boxes, but otoh 2048 hex chars is hardly practical
asciilifeform: entirely practical.
asciilifeform: get used to doing ~the actual thing~ instead of 'convenient' simulacra.
asciilifeform: this echoes the ffa 'omfg slow' discussions.
davout: furthermore, i disagree with in that the hash function doesn't have to be a "single" hash function, let user specify, or even put multiple fingerprints
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 05:28 asciilifeform: anything else puts a megatonne of weight on one single hash, a titanic reward for finding one single solitary collision, hashes (which are voodoo, in all variants, see friday's thread) are not built to withstand this kind of pressure.
asciilifeform: yes indeed the Actual Thing costs moar than the plastic doll.
asciilifeform: davout: it has to be a fixed in advance hash function.
asciilifeform: and it doesn't matter what you make it out of.
asciilifeform: hashes are voodoo, there is not a hash of demonstrable strength for the same reason there is not block cipher of same ( they are different sides of same medal, we had thread with elementary proof )
davout: "my cunthash256 is abcd", what's wrong with that
trinque: what's this practicality argument? the paste is longer?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 05:28 asciilifeform: anything else puts a megatonne of weight on one single hash, a titanic reward for finding one single solitary collision, hashes (which are voodoo, in all variants, see friday's thread) are not built to withstand this kind of pressure.
davout: spotting small differences in a 2048 blurb subjectively sounds impractical to me
asciilifeform: diff exists.
asciilifeform: what spotting.
asciilifeform: and you're welcome to hash on own end, 'in harem'. just don't refer to my key as its hash, it is unseemly
asciilifeform: how you keep straight the contents of own household, is none of my business
asciilifeform: but outside , my key is my key. not a hash.
davout: how do you picture a key exchange, from a practical pov?
asciilifeform: observe the mendacious idiocy of koch's signature code, where if sha1 hash collision is found , can forge sigs ~regardless of what sig algo hashing was set to~
asciilifeform: davout: 1) in person 2) via secure channel from people who you already know, who know $person.
lobbes: asciilifeform> afaik we dun use 'key servers' for anything no moar << at least for this exercise, I was using it for quick verification of what my exported pub looked liek imported on something that was not on my local machine.
lobbes: But otherwise, even I can agree: no real use for key servers as-a-thing. And, as I've found out, expiration-as-a-thing idem
ben_vulpes: and then send a few messages to your counterparty and get confirmation that they decrypt, and ask for the same
trinque: I yet await the tale of the man who used the expiration field to his benefit.
ben_vulpes: via mail, email, irc, paste
ben_vulpes: shortwave!
ben_vulpes: even the mail! gotta keep the lizards on their toes.
ben_vulpes: and if it's not important enough to push a valid key through the cracks of the sybil wall, i guess it wasn't actually important enough.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no need to include the exponent. if ppl don't know what exponent to use for a certain modulus, let them find out.
ben_vulpes: (or, "be less poor")
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unless the fucking fp can fit in irc, we're stuck building gossipd before using this "Actual thing"
mircea_popescu: trinque the argument is that check this out :
mircea_popescu: !!key trinque
mircea_popescu: what happens if FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4 is longer than a chat line ?
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously we would use deflation, say baseblabla to fix this up to a point.
mircea_popescu: but if you come up with the idea that "you know what, alf can have whatever kilometric hash and in my deedbot implementation ima use the first 100 chars and that's that" im not gonna bitch.
mircea_popescu: which reduces to "there ARE practical limits to labels for things ; and they are unrelated to the sizes of the things, i expect the WORD for ant, dick, car and aeroplane to all fit the ~5.6 characters rule as universally enforced in alphabet"
trinque: right, I could as well use nick for that, since it's a non-colliding namespace for those
mircea_popescu: sure. but more generally, the names of things respect the rules of grammar, not the rules of mechanics.
trinque: bahaha
asciilifeform: << how are they to find out ? by same argument you could as easily say 'post first half of modulus, let'em look for other half'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 21:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no need to include the exponent. if ppl don't know what exponent to use for a certain modulus, let them find out.
asciilifeform: pub exponent isn't a function of modulus, it's an independent variable
asciilifeform: change pubexp ? you get a different pubkey
mircea_popescu: you are confusing the label with the contents.
mircea_popescu: modulus completely identifies a key.
mircea_popescu: this complete identification may not include automatically the irc name, or the exponent, or the user's dog's picture
asciilifeform: review the algo.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, there's no doubt as to which key is in discussion.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, we're going to share Ns now ?
asciilifeform: not deliberately, lol. but if you don't know my e , you can't encrypt to me.
mircea_popescu: so i can't.
asciilifeform: just same as if you did not know the n.
asciilifeform: so they are both rightfully part of a pubkey.
mircea_popescu: but a third party asked for N knows WHAT key is being discussed. which is the point of labeling keys.
asciilifeform: the historic cheat was to standardize the e. which imho was retarded.
mircea_popescu: make an effort and distinguish betwen the thing and the thing's name.
asciilifeform: enemy can offer a diddled key with your n but his e, that he can decrypt encrypts to.
asciilifeform: names are not involved.
mircea_popescu: yes, koch fps are ineptly chosen names. yes there's value in having a biunivocal name-item relation by default.
mircea_popescu: NO, this doesn't explode to where everey possible PROPERTY of the item is now also going to be detailed in the name.
asciilifeform: re fps yes. re 'e is part of a pubkey' - it is.
asciilifeform: not knowing the e has exactly same effect as not knowing half of the n.
mircea_popescu: whether e is or is not part of pubkey was not at any point discussed by anyone other than yourself ;
mircea_popescu: much like whether fps are or are not useful wasn't discussed by anyone but yourself. the original problem was that gpg unreliably reported "key doesn't expire" to lobbes , when in fact it did expire.
asciilifeform: it is relevant to the screaming wrongness of statement.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 22:01 mircea_popescu: modulus completely identifies a key.
asciilifeform: it does no such thing .
mircea_popescu: it does.
mircea_popescu: there can be no doubt as to which key is being referenced if the reference consists of modulus.
mircea_popescu: that this reference is not functional, which is to say does not substitute for the thing it references, is a trivially true and entirely spurious observation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's key with altered pubexp is a valid key, and not mechanically distinguishable from the original's in the absence of sigs.
mircea_popescu: so trinque gets a notification that hey, you got the wrong ITEM stored under reference X.
hanbot: mircea_popescu> i am (i guess?) proud to say that ro pron party included womenz to my knowledge. wtf is the point without, they jack off on the zacusci ? << issat a typo or is a jacuzzi fulla zacusca a thing?!
mircea_popescu: this isn't something to be bruteforced through protocol. people can keep cabbage in pots labeled sugar all they want.
asciilifeform: with this argument you could justify arbitrarily breakable fp, say.
mircea_popescu: hanbot approximate russian plural.
asciilifeform: 'can always find right key'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we are currentrly using arbitrarily breakable fp.
mircea_popescu: the detriment has yet to materialize.
asciilifeform: has yet to materialize to naked eye.
mircea_popescu: let's redo this exercise
mircea_popescu: !!key asciilifeform
asciilifeform: are we building a thousand year reich or not, lol
mircea_popescu: if the above read, like ben_vulpes 's paste, five letters in base64, we'd be none the poorer.
asciilifeform: 20-50k usd gets you another 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7-sha1 but diff modulus.
asciilifeform: that nobody saw it fit yet to do this in front of asciilifeform's face, is neither here nor there
asciilifeform: you build bridge for 500 tanks, not for the wheelbarrows crossing river to date.
mircea_popescu: $0 usd gets you a "boat" in the sense you contemplated back at
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 14:33 mircea_popescu can buy used cars. CARS. because i bought and own hundreds. i can't buy fucking used boats, and i doubt you can (or would, or do for that matter) buy used cars.
mircea_popescu: but somehow commerce hasn't come at astandstill by the fact that you can call a folded sheet of paper as well as a 100`000 ton transport item "boat"
trinque: asciilifeform: what'd change in deedbot's key repository if somebody collided your key fp ?
asciilifeform: the historic 'it wasn't visible broken in my face' can justify any kind of shitcrypto, the use of winblowz, whatever customary syphilis . i ain't buying.
mircea_popescu: the four letter, base 26 hash works remarkably well.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're evidently buying, seeing how, let's do it the third time...
mircea_popescu: !!key asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: i woder what has to happen for it to stick.
trinque: I'll go change to to encode the FP as repititions of the string "cocks" to signify
asciilifeform: after bath (ffa) is built, i have 0 intention of continuing to rub against tree trunk to clean.
mircea_popescu: so what does this practically do ?
asciilifeform: dun matter for how long it was state of the art in my chukchistan.
mircea_popescu was rather toying with the idea of standarizing ben_vulpes 's identifier thing across teh republic.
asciilifeform: discussion is re permanent design for sane crypto.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why not take to logical conclusion : 1 bit : 1 == mircea_popescu , 0 == everybdy else, lol
mircea_popescu: them 04YcZ or w/es are working splendidly well
asciilifeform: the ham radio people still have iirc what, 5 letter names
asciilifeform: ( they die faster than born , so no shortages )
BingoBoingo: The cool ones four, at some point six+
asciilifeform: however they don't use hashes, so no collisions
mircea_popescu: the fact that we're still using a what was it, 400 char line protocol has some bearing on what we call things.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure i want gossipd lines to be longer than irc.
trinque: all deedbot is offering up is an identifier within its own namespace for the - yes - full key
mircea_popescu: imo it's a schelling point found at considerable expense and of significant value
asciilifeform: as i see it it's an arbitrary turd.
mircea_popescu: i had nfi you object to names as a matter of principle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu balked at 'unfragging udp is 512byte' but for some reason doesn't barf at irc
asciilifeform: crypto sigs are to be unambiguous. is the entire point of'em.
asciilifeform: like knife exists solely to cut.
mircea_popescu: how do you even put up with "asciilifeform" in the first place ? shouldn't it be stanisalvborninodessaandflownbyparentsacrossseaatcostofsellingitemsfromhouseandalsodoesntlikewashingtondcandhasagirlandahouseblablabla ?
asciilifeform: you can't sign with either.
asciilifeform: the pubkey is the man. per mircea_popescu's own theory and practice.
mircea_popescu: what's signing got to do with the discussion ?
asciilifeform: because it is about pubkey ?
mircea_popescu: not afaik ?
asciilifeform: what then, instead, about fram, ursul polar ?
mircea_popescu: well, at first it was about lobbes warning people not to rely on the "control dials" as provided by koch-gpg, for being unreliable ; then you wanted to talk about fps and then at some point and without warning anyone apparently pivoted to talking about pubkeys and signatures.
asciilifeform: it's about asciilifeform reviewing for davout why was on point
a111: Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
mircea_popescu: as i said, making the modulus be the name has its advantages.
asciilifeform: above however was written prior to discarding 'let's all 4evah use 65537'
mircea_popescu: but this dun include es, pictures, nicks, other comments. it includes N.
mircea_popescu: we don't agree on how that changes anything.
mircea_popescu: besides, some keys still use 3 or 17 or w/e.
asciilifeform: because e is a free variable ?
mircea_popescu: e always was a free variable.
mircea_popescu: in any case. there's no requirement that you be able to use the word "car" to go shopping in it ; and similarily there's no requirement that you be able to use a key's fingerprint to sign, or check signatures with it. the intention of the fingerprint is to permit you to reference a specific key unambiguously to a third party, such as when asking for it.
asciilifeform: if e is free variable ( vs. '65537 4evah 4all' ) then having n is having half a pubkey.
mircea_popescu: well, and having "asciilifeform" or "17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7" is having no portion of the pubkey.
asciilifeform: the use of a hash ( i.e. item guaranteed not to be 1:1 mapping ) to 'reference unambiguously' to something, is a fractionalreserveism.
mircea_popescu: they're just words denoting a certain pubkey.
mircea_popescu: that's unrelated to this conversation. N is not a hash, it's the modulus.
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu know a proof that i cannot choose an alternate e that will result in a pubkey that 1) verifies some or all of the existing signatures made with his genuine e + 2) verifies another, which he did not produce ?
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry ?
asciilifeform finds that the l0gz do not currently contain a full description of rsa
trinque: << seems entirely related. asciilifeform says no names because can't derive name from the math.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
mircea_popescu: what's this "genuine e". rsa is based on p,q,N not on e's.
asciilifeform: let's take interlude to review ?
asciilifeform: 1) we plug in the FG. p, q are primes. n = pq.
mircea_popescu: trinque well yes but the illiterate approach (which is what this is) rapidly devolves into orcdom.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform go on.
asciilifeform: 2) phi = (p-1)(q-1)
asciilifeform: 3) choose e, 1 < e < phi , where gcd(e, phi) == 1
asciilifeform: 4) compute seekrit d, 1 < d < phi, where e*d === 1 mod phi
asciilifeform: ( can also write , d == e^-1 mod phi )
asciilifeform: output is pub/priv pair; pub is tuble (n,e) , priv is (d, p, q) .
asciilifeform: for completeness, let's also note the rsa op :
asciilifeform: c = m^e mod n
asciilifeform: m = c^d mod n
asciilifeform: ( same exact op, but different colourings depending on whether encrypting or decrypting )
asciilifeform: this omits all mention of paddings etc.
asciilifeform: anyone see any typo ?
mircea_popescu: so what's the problem ?
asciilifeform: what happens if you change e to e', e' != e ?
mircea_popescu: whoever wants to decrypt will either know it or not decrypt.
mircea_popescu: or verify sigs, whatever, same op.
mircea_popescu shall bbl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu may well be right incidentally, re the impossibility of somebody lying about the e in a key, doing any damage . but i cannot yet prove.
asciilifeform: that's what bothers me, that i can't yet prove.
davout: sounds to me as the same fundamental problem re hashes
asciilifeform: << names are cosmetic. q is re 'what is a complete pubkey'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 22:23 trinque: << seems entirely related. asciilifeform says no names because can't derive name from the math.
asciilifeform: ( if tomorrow asciilifeform signs a message 'call me pile_of_cement nao plox' everyone will laugh, but his v-sigs will still stand )
trinque: no, it wasn't.
trinque: everyone present knows what constitutes a full pubkey
asciilifeform: trinque: i apparently don't
trinque: topic was what to use to reference one, if any
davout: unambiguously
asciilifeform: if tomorrow i sign a message with my key ' asciilifeform fleanode nick was compromised 2ks ago, ignore what the idjit said' -- also stands. names are clothing.
asciilifeform: mechanically linked 'this fp IS the key' item, however, is more insiduous.
asciilifeform: *insidious
asciilifeform: it's a fundamental untruth. because somewhere in phase space, waiting to be found, is 1 ( or 2, or 9000 ) collisions.
trinque: dare I go again?
asciilifeform: the 2 aren't in any way similar.
trinque: what happens to the interactions with deedbot if a collision occurs?
asciilifeform: nuffin, because it doesn't use signatures.
asciilifeform: v-on-gpg however is fucked.
trinque: pretty sure all that was at question was convention for naming keys
asciilifeform: incidentally , if trinque at any point imports the collision-key, it will overwrite the old, silently
asciilifeform: ( unsurprising koch mechanics )
asciilifeform: ditto if faux-asciilifeform sends trinque a pgpgram, 'my new key is...' -- it will verify.
trinque: yep. and so the thing will never do so. anytime someone lets his key expire I've grunted through the item with pgpdump
trinque: *the new item
asciilifeform: hats off to trinque , if he manually inspects moduli.
asciilifeform does, whenever fielding new gpgtronic box
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in heathendom, 'parody horizon' -- >> 'Facebook tests fighting revenge porn by asking users to file nude photos first'
trinque: looool
asciilifeform: betcha it will be unhappened before day is done
asciilifeform: 'never happened, hoax, move along.'
mircea_popescu has made "varza calita" however you call it, cabbage carmelized with bacon, with CAYENNE paprika. holy shit this is a good idea, had to come to new world to discover.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, n without e is not a complete pubkey, hence the e,N,comment standard. nevertheless, N is a sufficient index of the e,N,comment line that properly constitutes a pubkey.
asciilifeform: returning to the exponent thing, seems that mircea_popescu is right, nothing particularly interesting can be done by distributing a pub with e' . ( other than 'believe me , his e is 3' and then messages ~to that pub~ are breakable if padding is broken. but that' sit . )
mircea_popescu: and the fact that BOTH e and comment are arbitrary is not concerning.
asciilifeform: ( it won't affect existing sigs by trooo key , etc )
asciilifeform: and it's sufficient index until, i suppose , 5000 yrs pass and there are two old sages, each called himself mircea_popescu and each used modulus N, each left great body of alchemical works, but they had different, see, pub-e's.... lel
mircea_popescu: << this is very much a koch-gpg problem in the vein of "lobbes warning people not to rely on the "control dials" as provided by koch-gpg, for being unreliable" and probably the most important example thereof.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 22:39 asciilifeform: incidentally , if trinque at any point imports the collision-key, it will overwrite the old, silently
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a compromised key by definition, two people have the pq
asciilifeform: afaik this is so.
mircea_popescu: properly speaking, the two sages are the one sage.
asciilifeform: i dun currently see any crack in this big enough for my crowbar.
mircea_popescu: now to the saddest part of this all, whereby N being 512 bytes long, we can't actually fit them in irc lines.
asciilifeform: i must say even sadder noose, i dun have an rsatron that fits in irc line either...
asciilifeform: i even have a phriend whose postage addr barely fits in one...
mircea_popescu: i suppose necessarily we'll reference them by eg bpaste ids, thereby going right back to the hash.
asciilifeform: can reference by anything convenient. so long as not entertaining the seductive but very dangerous notion that the reference ~is~ the item.
mircea_popescu: right. doing something like "fp is" instead of "fp is FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4" has the advantage that the ad-hoc, by time of request hash does not purport any sort of relation with the contents.
mircea_popescu: this is a right thing here.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of wisdom we ended up baking into teh whole paste thing.
asciilifeform: iirc we had a similar thread re tx-id.
mircea_popescu: which was that ?
a111: Logged on 2017-04-05 13:31 asciilifeform: thing is, there is NO sane (i.e. o(1)) way to index without demanding unique global txid.
mircea_popescu: it's a recurrent topic.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how is it implemented btw ? not something directly breakable like "hash the microtime, put through base64 and truncate" is it ?
davout: "how dja generate key paste URL?" "just SHA1 the key" :D
davout: problem?
mircea_popescu: ideally the url is not breakable*. (*limits apply)
davout: breakable in what sense?
mircea_popescu: in the sense that third party can predict (by eliminating some as impossible) future urls in whatever manner.
mircea_popescu: ie "today is the 5th so all paste urls will sum to 05ff" or "this item is long therefore the paste will have more caps than small letters" etc
davout: it's not immediately clear to me what this would enable
asciilifeform: ideally the paste magick comes from s := get-string-from-FG followed by see-if-unexpired-paste-with-s-exists
asciilifeform: ( if latter is true : make new one )
mircea_popescu: davout not much ; asciilifeform well we don't yet have fg-capable isps.
asciilifeform: we do as soon as asciilifeform parks a box !
asciilifeform: but description is general , re 'how to make non-predictable gensym'
asciilifeform: ( it can't be a function of the payload, or of the clock )
mircea_popescu: and the problem is also general, nobody can apply our correct solutions.
asciilifeform: can at least avoid applying the obviously deadly , incorrect one.
asciilifeform: here's a possible idea : why not use mircea_popescu's poker .
asciilifeform: ( when submitting url, can throw in optional value that gets xor'd with the server-generated . )
mircea_popescu: over http ?
davout: BYO entropy, can't possibly hurt
asciilifeform: this was in old thread, re provably-fair pokerators , mircea_popescu shared the algo.
mircea_popescu: i'm aware, but it works better there than here.
mircea_popescu: poker is login site, bpaste isn't.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 00:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seed is a combo of site-produced TRNG entropy and player-set (with defaults if playher doesn't feel like setting). you can change your portion at any time.
asciilifeform: http POST takes >1 param, neh
asciilifeform: e.g. payload=foo&turd=bar
mircea_popescu: in other utter lulz : "La foule est son domaine, comme l'air est celui de l'oiseau, comme l'eau celui du poisson. Sa passion et sa profession, c'est d'épouser la foule. Pour le parfait flâneur, pour l'observateur passionné, c'est une immense jouissance que d'élire domicile dans le nombre, dans l'ondoyant, dans le mouvement, dans le fugitif et l'infini. Être hors de chez soi, et pourtant se sentir partout chez soi ; v
mircea_popescu: oir le monde, être au centre du monde et rester caché au monde, tels sont quelques-uns des moindres plaisirs de ces esprits indépendants, passionnés, impartiaux, que la langue ne peut que maladroitement définir. L'observateur est un prince qui jouit partout de son incognito."
mircea_popescu: who invented the redditard ? charles baudelaire described it cca 1863.
shinohai: lmao
mircea_popescu: feeding the self the impression of being in the center of the world while at the same time remaining invisible to the world.
mircea_popescu: this is what "anonimity" is hoped to provide to the online tard of 2010s.
asciilifeform: d'épouser la foule << ugh
mircea_popescu: baudelaire is well deranged.
asciilifeform: is this after opium caught on , or wat
asciilifeform: or can we blame syphilis
mircea_popescu: before opium caught on there was a brain there upon which opium will have caught on later on.
a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 17:10 mircea_popescu: stopping smoking doesn't reduce cancer, because the sort of shameful shitsacks that GET cancer will get it, whether from smoking or not. if not from smoking -- they'll find a different stressor.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 23:32 mircea_popescu: who invented the redditard ? charles baudelaire described it cca 1863.
asciilifeform: dunno that this carries universally -- could just easily say 'caesar should have grown his chitinous plate on his chest, so as not to be stabbed'
mircea_popescu: lorica segmentata. it's a thing.
asciilifeform: but re opium specifically mircea_popescu's idea is almost certainly troo : opium isn't actually fun for ~most people
asciilifeform: ( nearly everybody at one time went to dentist, or whatever surgeon, got opiated . how many want to take it up ? )
a111: Logged on 2016-10-03 19:15 asciilifeform: one of the interesting recurring motifs in dalrymple (british dude who worked for decades as prison doctor) re addicts is that they are not 'could be just anybody'
asciilifeform: ( re physical handling of pubkeys : another possibly interesting old asciilifeform crackpottery : )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-01 18:03 asciilifeform: if you make a ~two~-diode reader, you can make it ignore 'unstraight' (from its pov) bars. and this opens you up to a method :
asciilifeform: ( tldr : 13125 bytes on 2sided business card , after luby )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is basically a cognitive arsonist.
mircea_popescu: his greatest pleasure is to burn down some thing in this way.
asciilifeform: but from ashes, we get magical bird, which then... or was that in another tale.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: several java-"random" selections from a list of characters
ben_vulpes: the thing predates my membership in thumbsdownforclojureclub
asciilifeform: lol i thought ben_vulpes wrote clojure proggies for a living
asciilifeform: ( or he does ? but 'with disgust' ? )
ben_vulpes: cl and legacy pyshits mostly
ben_vulpes: i'd rather write java than clojure
ben_vulpes: compiler for the former is at least useful, goes beyond 'meh adequate'
ben_vulpes: resisting the temptation to shit up the logs with clojure hate over here
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I thought that was 2013-2014's logs. Just link some classics.
ben_vulpes digs briefly through logs, finds only old sads
shinohai: !~ty
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
BingoBoingo: Old meme is best meme
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the two-diode crackpottery is definitely a favorite of mine
asciilifeform: incidentally, quick experiment gives
asciilifeform: which reads just fine with my ancient 'blaster gun'
asciilifeform: right off the lcd.
asciilifeform: ( 4096bits )
asciilifeform: or hm, the iso std says otherwise, it's 1 .. 4296 alphanumerics, but only max 2953 8bit bytes per iso-compliant qr.
asciilifeform: so, eh, you'll need 2 of'em.
asciilifeform: ( for standard qrtrons )
asciilifeform: oh hm nm
asciilifeform: 2953 ~bytes~
asciilifeform: moar than enough for 4096b (512byte) modulus, same size exponent, and massive chunk of errorcode.
asciilifeform: ( say, 1024byte (n,e) ; then 512byte signature , of a message, e.g., 'please call me pile_of_cement' )
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: pile_of_cement: Do you have any luggage recommendations for rackmount boxes?
asciilifeform: look in music 'dj' catalogue, they make cases
asciilifeform: but i prefer the crate the machine shipped in
asciilifeform: is generally good packing.
BingoBoingo: Does airline treat this as a bag or a something else
asciilifeform: if you put it in a bag -- bag.
asciilifeform: if not -- freight
BingoBoingo: And if wrapped in nylon and strapped together in 70 lb units, still bags?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo qntra would work fine as a vps off your vps machine im sure.
asciilifeform: afaik if you make it externally baglike (i.e. with handle) and it fits in mass/dimensions given by carrier -- they'll carry it
davout: y u no freight?
asciilifeform: presumably -- miser
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cool. Mega opteron VPS box it is.
asciilifeform: you also running opterons, BingoBoingo ?
BingoBoingo: davout: Freight happens later as "household", that way duty free.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Pricing boxes.
asciilifeform: what's the duty on an ancient comp anyway
davout: you'd need to actually move yourself for that to be an option, no?
BingoBoingo: davout: That is plan
asciilifeform recalls rolling crate of pogos, for c3, and paying 0 because nobody wanted to try to compute duty
davout: aok, hence the .br residence permit talks
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Depends on what I call the computer. Uruguay however has actual charts.
BingoBoingo: davout: And hence not Brazil parallel search becoming very attractive. Brazil is slow. Anyways the reason BingoBoingo has been condensing physical plant is that there are many compelling anti-reasons to operate ISP in US.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7419.67, vol: 24758.34621988 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7380.0, vol: 97961.33501621 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7426.5, vol: 6258.26612398 | Volume-weighted last average: 7389.8712454
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is not such a thing as a sane fiatolistan. but otoh it is difficult to do worse than usa.
asciilifeform: << for that matter would work even better on a 'pcengines' or other small machine with GB nic + ssd .
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 00:24 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo qntra would work fine as a vps off your vps machine im sure.
asciilifeform: ( even, say, a pogo )
asciilifeform: how much does the workingset weigh, BingoBoingo ?
asciilifeform: ( is it even over 100 MB ? )
ben_vulpes: in other news, vancouver washington elected a dead man to city council
BingoBoingo: Prolly not going that small. Qntra may get own box E350 or similar AMD
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: More than that less than 1 GB. Document dumps and pictures, etc
asciilifeform: pretty compact.
BingoBoingo: Yes, but DB intensive.
asciilifeform: fits in ram, and prolly will for foreseeable future.
asciilifeform: so not really i/o-bound
BingoBoingo will likely leave 1/2" drive socket kit behind
asciilifeform: aaa ~that~ is what BingoBoingo meant by 'condense physicals'
asciilifeform: asciilifeform likewise will have a rail car's worth of goodies to liquidate
asciilifeform: anybody want 1958 'britannica' ? 60 yrs of 'sci am' ? co2 laser ? lol
BingoBoingo: You're leaving the LASER!
asciilifeform: didja think it could come ?!
asciilifeform: any idea what the thing weighs
asciilifeform: or how breakable.
BingoBoingo: No idea at all
asciilifeform: sorta like a ming vase in a steel coffin ( sized for a 5 y.o. )
asciilifeform: plus compressor, exhaust pump, water chiller.
ben_vulpes: a 58 britannica?!
asciilifeform: with indices.
ben_vulpes: glorious
asciilifeform: and buncha else.
ben_vulpes: we had a shit 90s
asciilifeform: the lispm is finally gone tho.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell pete_dushenski << You want in on the alf firesale?
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 00:46 asciilifeform: asciilifeform likewise will have a rail car's worth of goodies to liquidate
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: 2 dec alphas remain, plus a megatonne of other yet-uncatalogued .
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> we had a shit 90s << My fambly poor. Grew up with bullshit Funk & Wagnalls
asciilifeform: other notable junk includes.... cnc milling machine ( asciilifeform-built controller , brand-new steppers )
asciilifeform: and i think this completes the list of items somebody in l1 might actually want.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-14 17:29 asciilifeform: asciilifeform had a 1958 'britannica', made in usa, that he fished out of a dumpster as a boy. it was superb, as far as encyclopaedia goes, about on par with famous большая советская энциклопедия . but today it lives packed in a crate.
asciilifeform: i suppose i oughta also mention 2 21-inch trinitrons, one of which -- brand-new, ~1hr of runtime.
asciilifeform: buncha other various ( laser printers, photo equip, etc ) also , but really belongs at junkyard
asciilifeform: at any rate, l1 folx firmly stuck in usa ( who... ben_vulpes ? mod6 ? ) invited to inquire re particulars.
asciilifeform: kudos to phf for finding a fella who needed a lispm.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform maybe run a giveaway on your blog.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, simply buy them passage in a container. though that more reasonable when going to kekistans, i guess
asciilifeform: i dun have any desire to give away to non-l1
asciilifeform: may as well sell for fiatola, or leave for the vultures.
asciilifeform: i'ma make a container, but prolly not 2 and defo not 3
asciilifeform: most of my earthly goodz dun merit the cost.
asciilifeform: ( ftr it ain't as if asciilifeform had a thing to move into yet. but may as well get all of the parallelizable balls rolling. )
ben_vulpes: congrats on the new project
ben_vulpes: i'm currently reevaluating my own exit timeline; project tinyhuman did not go particularly well this time through
asciilifeform: failed checksum ?
ben_vulpes: in broad strokes, yeah
asciilifeform: if it ain't a seekrit, to where does ben_vulpes want to move ?
ben_vulpes: somewhere i can launch autonomous subs under cover of learning to surf
ben_vulpes: bits of rural costa rica look nice, was briefly looking at chile before i realized i'd probably end up at the same miserable latitude
asciilifeform: same as where
ben_vulpes: ~portland area. 45
asciilifeform: not same microclimate
asciilifeform: recall argentinistan
ben_vulpes: this is possible! but i would muchly like to trade number of hours in longest summer day for...more summer days.
asciilifeform: or for that matter , timis is same parallel as odessa but warmer, because in a 'kettle'
ben_vulpes: arstan had thicker rain than portland, but i heard that it was not the soul-killing constant grey fog.
asciilifeform: ( figs did not grow in o )
ben_vulpes: oh also chilean ocean is fucking cold, forgot that criteria
asciilifeform: your subs need warm ?!
ben_vulpes: i've lived near cold bodies of water my whole life, have no insulation, and i would like to get in warm water on a whim
asciilifeform: it's called bathtub, lel
asciilifeform: i dun think i ever saw warm water outdoors.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform must have mondo bathtub with wavegenerator
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: where i'm from there's a layer of maybe 6 inches of warm water in the summer
ben_vulpes: i hear this layer is deeper elsewhere
asciilifeform: prolly yer path lies to the tropics, then, to mircea_popescu landia.
ben_vulpes: you don't say
asciilifeform: either that, or grow yer skin fat, like the finns
ben_vulpes: !!reputation whaack
asciilifeform: then all water will seem warm.
ben_vulpes: you know i have objected to skinny dipping more and more of late on the grounds that i will get cold and grumpy within five minutes so why don't you just strip and get in and i'll make a fire up here and catcall
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes coastal cr is hot and humid though.
mircea_popescu: mountain cr kicks ass but obviously no subs there
mircea_popescu: then again whole country can be walked across.
ben_vulpes: i mean i'll drive a bit
ben_vulpes: great excuse to buy mega truck in saturated american market of mildly depreciated truck
mircea_popescu: personally went across the whole thing in a day. quite doable. especially if going at night. locals are pretty nuts with the timings, crowd within the same hours, are apparently petrified of driving at night
a111: Logged on 2015-11-21 05:29 asciilifeform: << 'Подводная лодка В степях Украины Погибла в неравном Воздушном бою!' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: then again understandable, very inept drivers.
trinque: girl and I are looking seriously at singapore
mircea_popescu is curious how that goes.
trinque: but I also have an accountant with thai wife, citizenship
trinque: guy might be able to help there
mircea_popescu: thai seems to be favoured destination
asciilifeform: lotta ru folx in thailandistan
mircea_popescu: other than that, cr oceans are indeed warm.
asciilifeform: if you have stomach for life in 'rice kingdoms', it is mega-destination.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by that logic costa rica is oil-fried flour-kingdom.
asciilifeform: see china thread. white man phood scarce in we-dun-lactase land.
asciilifeform: relatively.
asciilifeform not yet been in person there, cannot speak to the practical acuteness of said problem.
asciilifeform: but i'd be genuinely surprised to learn that there are, say, multitude of quality icecream vendors, in thailand.
asciilifeform: asians ? lactose-indigesting folx ?
trinque: diameter of accountant suggests he's finding something to get fat on over there
asciilifeform: that's doable anywhere.
ben_vulpes: lol diameter of accountant
asciilifeform: iirc thailand bans all land ownership by noncitizens. but this is prolly finessable mircea_popescutronically.
asciilifeform: have you been there yet, ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: or trinque
trinque: haven't, but it's on the list
ben_vulpes: nah not i
asciilifeform: will be interesting to read .
ben_vulpes: dunno why land ownership is such an important
trinque: as far as land ownership, not too sure how much I want to marry a piece of real estate anyway.
asciilifeform: you don't lease the chair you sit in, neh
asciilifeform: but not 'married' it either
ben_vulpes: chair not really burdened with pretentions of asset classhood
asciilifeform: neither is a toyota's worth of orcland
asciilifeform: but granted 'tco' optimization is a very personal thing
ben_vulpes: lol mhm, just this month i had the gutters cleaned, various blinds replaced, wiring performed and all at zero cost to self
ben_vulpes would rather make terrible noises on the guitar than gentoo fucking houses
asciilifeform: unlikely to get this level of service from orc landlord, unless you're mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: ( and even him i seem to recall cursing the air conditioner people in b-a )
ben_vulpes: pay commensurately less, get commensurately less.
asciilifeform: and imho a house you haven't usefully 'gentooed' is merely... a hotel. may as well live in actual hotel
asciilifeform: orc landlord aint building optic cablimg,
asciilifeform: antennae, cemented safes, etc.
ben_vulpes: orc landlord also ain't gonna object to actual improvements.
trinque: it's the kind of work that stays behind, too
asciilifeform: no moar then my current one objects, lol
ben_vulpes: fwiw this house came complete with cat5 in every room
asciilifeform: but he gets to eat'em.
trinque: oughta do it somewhere you can see yourself staying, or do without. or so the logic goes
trinque: my ancestors chose the states rashly in the 40s, look where that got them
asciilifeform: where would you rather they had gone in 40s , lol
asciilifeform: instead of the only industrial empire not wrecked by the war.
trinque: went from wealthy italian folks doing italian things to more or less "people of walmart" in 2 generations. lack of options doesn't excuse that.
asciilifeform: not so much doing-of-italianthings happening back in okd italy any moar, neh
trinque: still, came to america, the air dissolved their wot, wot died
asciilifeform: how did 'air dissolvd their wot' ? plenty of italians famiusly preserved their wot in usa
trinque: for how long?
asciilifeform: or you mean in present day.
trinque: they had a great time in prohibition; where are they now?
trinque: tell you where, shitty real estate in florida with hair on their backs
trinque: owning franchises and shit
asciilifeform: i can think of worse things to be in usa
asciilifeform: e.g. owning 0
asciilifeform: and in the swamp.
ben_vulpes: salarymen and art critics
asciilifeform: 'there's plenty of room at the bottom' (tm)(r)(feynman)
mircea_popescu: << landlady at one place bought me proper showerheads on her own initiative during her own trip to teh civilised world.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 02:36 asciilifeform: unlikely to get this level of service from orc landlord, unless you're mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: i say tis all in teh relationships. otherwise, ownership is illusory.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 02:39 asciilifeform: orc landlord aint building optic cablimg,
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack, the other side of medal -- asciilifeform's ancestors, had fruit trees. but asciilifeform does not get to have fruit trees, and it makes him slightly sadder.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 02:40 trinque: oughta do it somewhere you can see yourself staying, or do without. or so the logic goes
mircea_popescu: << not terrible choice in the 40s, the damage roosevelt was doing was neither obvious nor its staying power clear.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-09 02:41 asciilifeform: where would you rather they had gone in 40s , lol
asciilifeform: 40s usa was afaik by very long shot the best looking horse in the glue factory.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> bits of rural costa rica look nice, was briefly looking at chile before i realized i'd probably end up at the same miserable latitude << The problem with Chile is poor internet transit capacity.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> neither is a toyota's worth of orcland << Toyota's worth of orland in Thailand will lack any centrality
mircea_popescu: aaand in other "united states government what ? who are these schmucks nobody heard of ?"
asciilifeform: 'The Commission has determined not to pursue an enforcement action in this matter based on the conduct and activities known to the Commission at this time' << lol!
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the lulzy tim swanson has a blog, on which he uses trilema notes, and derps insistently. i'm taking a bet nobody ever heard of it.
asciilifeform: whossat
a111: Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work
mircea_popescu: rando aspie.
asciilifeform back to bed
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