danielpbarron: !!up AlfredAlfer
danielpbarron: hi, Emily?
AlfredAlfer: How are you this fine evening
danielpbarron: tired but otherwise well
danielpbarron: how have you been taking the twitter ban
AlfredAlfer: oh better than ever
AlfredAlfer: I'm glad I'm free of the ironybros
AlfredAlfer: nice to be on Gab
danielpbarron: what is gab?
AlfredAlfer: fwaa it's the free speech twitter. You can say whatever you want and they won't ban you.
danielpbarron: ya but i mostly use twitter to troll the people who would never use a gab
danielpbarron: otherwise i blog on my own site
BingoBoingo thought nick was a joke on alfname
AlfredAlfer: twitter was fun while it lasted but gab weeds out the bullshit
AlfredAlfer: you can't even really troll anyone without getting banned
AlfredAlfer: for me what did me in was a fat joke
danielpbarron: a very funny joke at that. great way to go out
BingoBoingo: Eh, the best fat jokes are the fats themselves. Hamplanets thinking they are people. Oink Oink motherfuckers
BingoBoingo: Here's another fat joke: acanthosis nigricans
danielpbarron: AlfredAlfer, if you were to host your own blog, your banworthy stuff can get posted by other people who read it, and on whichever social media is fashionable at the time
AlfredAlfer: well they still could shut down my blog. They're making big leap now. It all started with Anglin's fat joke
danielpbarron: shut diwn how?
AlfredAlfer: The end of net neutrality is here and they're doing it all under the guise of 'stopping white supremacy'
AlfredAlfer: they're sneaking it up under us because of Anglin's fat joke
AlfredAlfer: first the Daily stormer, then the rest.
danielpbarron: if they could shut sites down, there wouldn't be a trilema
BingoBoingo: Eh, they are going to fail BECAUSE of white supremacy
AlfredAlfer: You don't know how they're forcing the DS to literally be wiped off the face of the internet? They've gone to several domains, all have been shut down. Even tor is blocking their traffec
AlfredAlfer: they should be doing these kinds of measures to pedophiles
danielpbarron: tor is a USG honeypot
danielpbarron: !#s tor
AlfredAlfer: has trilema reached their radar?
AlfredAlfer: Trilema's decentralized though, right?
danielpbarron: i don't know mircea_popescu's hosting arrangement
danielpbarron: if you mean the blog that is. this channel is just a freenode channel. but we could make our own irc server if they ever bothered to knock this one off
trinque: ohey, little bit of racis to balance out the calitard today?
trinque: welcome AlfredAlfer
danielpbarron: oh, do you have a RSA key, AlfredAlfer ? pgp/gpg
a111: Logged on 2017-06-15 01:40 asciilifeform: but now for something compleeetli different!! >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp6ePKe6iI >> greatest imho , i shit thee not, cinematic masterpiece of our time...
BingoBoingo: AlfredAlfer: Register a key. I'll rate you so you can get on our better internet. Thank you for not being another KKKalifornian
danielpbarron: ahh ty trinque ! i had the hardest time finding that line
asciilifeform: i will also rate.
asciilifeform: !!up AlfredAlfer
trinque: while I'm fishing out links
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708301 << >> http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 04:24 AlfredAlfer: has trilema reached their radar?
AlfredAlfer: no I don't have an RSA key. What is it?
asciilifeform: trinque: where's the trilema where he promised to lingchi usg operatives on camera if catches one ?
AlfredAlfer: Oh thank you for posting my cartoon, +a111
trinque: that's actually a bot reciting a link to the logs
danielpbarron: AlfredAlfer, it's kinda like a bitcoin address in that it has a private/public key, and we use it to send secret messages and identify ourselves
AlfredAlfer: I'm glad you like it : )
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: a111 is a robot
AlfredAlfer: forgive me
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: observe, when and why it speaks
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: rsa is the weapon against which, when used correctly, they've no defense.
AlfredAlfer: Cool so they can't take it down no matter what? It can be the new free internet?
asciilifeform: the buggers spent moar on preventing you knowing about it, or how to use, than on battleships.
AlfredAlfer: holy shite
AlfredAlfer: that's lovely to hear. Very comforting.
AlfredAlfer: Yes, we need to forge a new Wild Wild West of internet. The old one is used and bugged and fucked worse than an old whore.
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: be sure to come back when mircea_popescu wakes up.
AlfredAlfer: heehee wut's his time zone?
asciilifeform: mars, approx.
asciilifeform: srsly he has no fixed time. ( just as i do not )
asciilifeform: stay around for a day or so and you'll meet.
AlfredAlfer: yea that's galaxy brain operation
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708277 << right solution to this is called gossipd, one of the items in the works.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 04:11 AlfredAlfer: fwaa it's the free speech twitter. You can say whatever you want and they won't ban you.
trinque: !#s gossipd
trinque: there's a very long, ongoing thread on its specific design, but it builds upon the RSA cryptography asciilifeform mentioned.
AlfredAlfer: ahh yes gossipd
AlfredAlfer: so no matter what, people can gather and message there? Is it encrypted enough that google and shit can't read it? Or is it all public?
trinque: it is designed to not be a specific "there" at all, to any particular, singular public. information is routed along your trusted relationships, and is as good as your connections. like life.
trinque: easier to understand if one first understands the web of trust
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: consider how the proverbial 'terrorist cell' works.
trinque: ^ obviously this is mircea_popescu's blog, not mine.
AlfredAlfer: Ah I see thank you for the article
asciilifeform: no cell knows about any others but its immediate neighbors.
asciilifeform: AlfredAlfer: so let's say you want to read , e.g., der sturmer. your let a friend's box know. the friend's -- yet again same, asks others. then ds box eventually reached, and passes text back up the chain to you.
asciilifeform: this is a gross oversimplification but must suffice for now.
asciilifeform: rsa is the insecticide against snoops on the wires, and likewise against enemy agents monkeying with the messages en route or impersonating source.
trinque: pulling from the other end, ds et al are using the technology a bunch of califag pantsuits made, and expecting it to work for other than pantsuit.
AlfredAlfer: Ah I see it's like a very direct transfer.. like a hall of mirrors
AlfredAlfer: yes I must let them know there are other ways
AlfredAlfer: That's very excellent
AlfredAlfer: so they can try and try to cut them off, cut transfers, block traffic, but it's impossible
asciilifeform: brief likbez re tor : http://trilema.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/
asciilifeform: !!up AlfredAlfer
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl. stay tuned, AlfredAlfer .
trinque: who had an intro to gpg
trinque: danielpbarron: ?
danielpbarron: i think it was on the old wiki
trinque: looks like eulora dox are pretty good on the subj
trinque: AlfredAlfer: there is a voice mechanism here run by my trusty deedbot.
AlfredAlfer: whah like you can speak?
trinque: yep, you saw folks using !!up to grant you voice
trinque: if you are registered and rated, you'll be able to self-voice
AlfredAlfer: hahahah, that's the most complicated account setup I've ever seen ; )
AlfredAlfer: Will be well worth it once the big crackdown really happens
trinque: takes some diligence to have a name that's yours, rather than one some twatter can steal.
AlfredAlfer: It will probably take me a day to fully absorb it
trinque: but, worth immensely more
AlfredAlfer: I have a bitcoin guy I talk to often who will help me understand it.
AlfredAlfer: i'll just use my real name I guess
AlfredAlfer: still, *they* will be able to incriminate us for anything we've ever said one day
AlfredAlfer: say you're completely anonymous, don't use your real name, like I assume all you guys do.. is it easy for them to tie what you've said onto your actual person?
danielpbarron: depends how you do it
danielpbarron: but most things aren't worth saying anonymously
trinque: ^ mircea_popescu wrote this. I and most (all?) others here worth a damn signed in blood.
trinque: specifically, signed with our cryptographic keys.
mircea_popescu: heh now we got an alf and an' alfalfer ?
AlfredAlfer: lol yes I suppose so
AlfredAlfer: Hello, it is very nice to meet you +mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer so are you http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/EmilyYoucis is the idea ?
AlfredAlfer: myep. It's an old article tho
mircea_popescu: anyway, as to the direct concern -- it is actually impossible to take down sites, as far as the empire of stupid is concerned.
mircea_popescu: the examples you give are remarkably poorly managed. specifically re dailystormer, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706830
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 23:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706799 << or anywhere else. it's purely dead.
mircea_popescu: they have nfi what they're doing, and so no, it doesn't take much to take them offline.
AlfredAlfer: oh shite
AlfredAlfer: Weev runs pretty much the whole thing
mircea_popescu: now, on to more interesting matters, are you going to do a crazy republican cartoon series ?
AlfredAlfer: are you saying if I can relay him some tips he'd have an easier time keeping it up?
AlfredAlfer: Well I'm working on a new toon now, a commission actually
AlfredAlfer: being paid in BTC
mircea_popescu: where do you publish shit, outside of the walled gardens i mean ?
mircea_popescu: hola cazalla
AlfredAlfer: I've been traveling the globe ever since I got uprooted and haven't done a solid animation since the Ascent of Alfred
AlfredAlfer: but I'm settled now
AlfredAlfer: Usually youtube, the basic shit. Though I just got a bitchute today since my yt is going to be removed shortly
cazalla: mircea_popescu, heya
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer well not getting shitty vps'en on obscure shithosts would help ; also not getting them one at a time ; and also not using fucking domain names. behold : http://18.104.22.168/
cazalla: BingoBoingo, np re: email
cazalla: AlfredAlfer, finally in the right place eh?
mircea_popescu: the fact that works and his shit didn't already is an indication of incompetence.
AlfredAlfer: Weev works tirelessly, but I suppose he has no idea about the tricks available.
AlfredAlfer: I was hanging out with him recently
mircea_popescu: http://22.214.171.124/2017/beating-that-spark-of-heaven/ << and i don't mean just the root, either.
AlfredAlfer: If it's a numerical domain like the one you posted, can the masses still find it, though?
mircea_popescu: why not ? you found it...
AlfredAlfer: yea if it got around like that. A big part of the site's' success is just random passerbyers happing upon it though
mircea_popescu: the masses ALSO can find it by editing /etc/hosts and putting whatever number they want.
AlfredAlfer: I guess the numerical way is easier to access than having everyone download the onion tho
mircea_popescu: like in the case yest, all they needed was local resolution and it'd have worked (which is how i got the paste of his page even when people "Couldn't reach it")
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer absolutely lol. seeing how it's how the internet works in the first place.
AlfredAlfer: oh shite
AlfredAlfer: Can you send the paste?
mircea_popescu: the whole dns bullshit is just "convenience" built on top of the system, which then conveniently allows the pantsuits to play tricks like these, and idiots to believe in pantsuit power.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 23:25 mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WGSbc/?raw=true foir the curious.
mircea_popescu: (all links in channel are also auto-archived, if the pastes expire)
mircea_popescu: just look it up on archive.is
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall that thing with the dog ?
AlfredAlfer: I see I see.
AlfredAlfer: yes, he needs to use a whole new set of rules
AlfredAlfer: and the 'deleting' of the websites is just smoke and mirrors, huh?
mircea_popescu: works against the stupid poor and them only.
AlfredAlfer: How many people realistically know about this system right now?
AlfredAlfer: It's gotta be an extremely small percentage of the population, no?
mircea_popescu: i expect, yes.
mircea_popescu: then again, how many people know how a fridge works ?
trinque: this isn't even the gossipd thing I brought up. it's what your computer already does.
mircea_popescu: about same %
AlfredAlfer: you're right
AlfredAlfer: I guess you're then planning to make the system as common as a fridge, correct?
trinque: tits.xxx -> dear mother government, where are the tits? -> 126.96.36.199
mircea_popescu: it already is as common. all computers work this way, and always have.
AlfredAlfer: ahh. So *they* are just using one outdated dinosaur form of what could be and telling us that's all there is?
mircea_popescu: trinque incidentally i like this one a lot better than the other one.
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer how much does your comissioned cartoon pay btw ?
AlfredAlfer: Yea you just gotta snazz it up a bit, add some clickbait and emoticons ; )
AlfredAlfer: Well I use the standard animator's rate
mircea_popescu: i dunno what that is.
AlfredAlfer: I secured the commission back when btc was at around 1200
AlfredAlfer: And since he's paying me in btc only, well, I'm getting a hell of a lot more than originally bargained
mircea_popescu: so how much is that ?
AlfredAlfer: Well standard animator's rates is a grand per minute of framebyframe 24 fps animation
AlfredAlfer: It's not even that standard... that's kind of a lowball, but that's what I use
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1000 / 24 / 60
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000 / 24 / 60 = 0.6944444444444444
mircea_popescu: so 70 cents a frame ?
AlfredAlfer: These guys getting hired by google and other shit can charge way more for crap animations lol
AlfredAlfer: oh wow when you put it like that that kinda sucks hahaha
mircea_popescu: are you bashful AlfredAlfer ?
AlfredAlfer: well since I secured this one when btc was about a 4th what it is now, I'm getting a bit more than 70 cents per frame
AlfredAlfer: yea I can be a bit bashful teehee
mircea_popescu: 2 bitcents is like 90 dollars or what is it now, for a frame.
AlfredAlfer: wow fancy that. A frame I don't even have to draw.
AlfredAlfer: Sounds like a bargain. You get any takers yet?
mircea_popescu: well see all those pics there ? lol
AlfredAlfer: ahh those are real ones
mircea_popescu: sure. you can even follow the log links to where they happened.
AlfredAlfer: seem like the bargain bin runna the mill sluts
AlfredAlfer: tho I suppose they all are
mircea_popescu: why so negative, there's liek so's of the lordship beaming there, not to mention various other well respected ladies.
AlfredAlfer: which ones are the pros
mircea_popescu: that's for you to determine!
AlfredAlfer: : 0
mircea_popescu: your string is 59eea6eb. and smile!
AlfredAlfer: hah LOl oh you
AlfredAlfer: my uncensored tits shall not grace this internet so long as I shall live
mircea_popescu: a ? up to you.
AlfredAlfer: Nothing personal.. If I post one tit image it will haunt me forever. There are many who are trying to obtain it
mircea_popescu: so what ?
cazalla: AlfredAlfer, i thought kinky cooking was your thing?
AlfredAlfer: I see you have done your research
mircea_popescu: i suspect the ex chief editor of qntra is a fan.
AlfredAlfer: 2009, good times
AlfredAlfer: why do you suspect that?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-16#1671175 << actually lots of people are, turns out.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-16 23:00 asciilifeform: asciilifeform notices that his desk has an uncanny resemblance to the one in 'ascension of alfred'
AlfredAlfer: well I'm quite flattered
cazalla: AlfredAlfer, not so much research, listened to TRS for a bit for the lulz so you obviously come up, personally i'd love to see you take up the offer and break sven's heart
AlfredAlfer: which offer?
cazalla: bit tips for nips as linked earlier
AlfredAlfer: Oh yes, they wanted to have me as a regular on the Shoah but I was displaced at the moment and couldn't commit
AlfredAlfer: ohoh. It will have to be more than 90 usd I'll tell you that
AlfredAlfer: Why would sven give a shit tho
mircea_popescu: why, are they very juicy ?
AlfredAlfer: Well they say I have the best rack in the Alt Right
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer btw, did you know it's in the constitution of the czech republic, all girls under 30 must topless on request ?
mircea_popescu: careful lest da police gets wind of this log, they could throw you in jale!
AlfredAlfer: slav girls are fuckin hot
AlfredAlfer: Oh, how did you see my vpn?
AlfredAlfer: what else can you see..
mircea_popescu: remember, this is the most serene republic, eater of worlds.
AlfredAlfer: So when did you launch this place?
mircea_popescu: it's been an ongoing thing since bitcoin. keeps evolving though.
AlfredAlfer: mmm. Yes, with the combo of information and currency out of their hands, we will be unstoppable :D
AlfredAlfer: But what if they destroy every physical computer in the world
AlfredAlfer: or like 90 percent of computers.
mircea_popescu: they can't make a boat. let's not get ahead of ourselves.
AlfredAlfer: oh yea they're using baby internet
trinque: or dreaming of SOLAR SHIELDS or w/e wank
AlfredAlfer: they'll physically block the sun to stop our internet, cover the earth in a reverse dyson sphere
mircea_popescu: http://www.vocativ.com/falsestart/381059/pistachio-girl-phillies-vendor-racism/ in other lulz.
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer what did you do anyway ?
AlfredAlfer: went to NPI
mircea_popescu: what's npi ?
AlfredAlfer: and went out to interview the Antifa, just have a lil discussion
AlfredAlfer: They ended up sending my cameraman to the hospital
mircea_popescu: that couldn't have been in 2016 ?
AlfredAlfer: The National Policy Institute. It's the whole richard spencer thing. Tila Tequila was there. Not the greatest optics but it was fun.
AlfredAlfer: oh yea that's one of my favorite articles LOL
mircea_popescu: tila tequila ? was this the mexican britney spears or somesuch ?
AlfredAlfer: ((((( Robert Silverman)))) of course!
AlfredAlfer: hahahha mexican britney spears
trinque: antifa tried to fart around near our sam houston statue recently, bunch of folks showed up with assault rifles and they went off to shitpost elsewhere.
AlfredAlfer: no it's the asian nazi mk ultra victim chick
mircea_popescu: you'll have to excuse me, i have all the social media hip edge of a 90yo.
AlfredAlfer: no worries it seems you're occupying your brain with much more important things
AlfredAlfer: oh yes, you can shoot people in texas for defacing a statue, right? Good ol' texas.
trinque: then we threw a hurricane to wash ourselves of their stench
mircea_popescu: trinque you'll appreciate this : costa rica is a stronghold state.
mircea_popescu: "priviledged self defense" they call it.
trinque: "stand your ground" ? yeah
AlfredAlfer: well atleast the hurricane did one good thing
mircea_popescu: but basically, breaking and entering ~= your life's forfeit.
AlfredAlfer: Do you live in USA, mircea?
trinque: can't see the sanity in anything else
cazalla: AlfredAlfer, no-one shoots anyone, they're all a bunch of Cantwells in that they come armed to the gills but never a single shot is fired, just larping at best
mircea_popescu: no, i live in costa rica.
AlfredAlfer: Well cantwell never should've had the gun
mircea_popescu: cazalla they had that guy in the tower!
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer why, you wanna visit ?
AlfredAlfer: But I wouldn't consider it larping. Helmets and shields are necessary when you're getting acid thrown in your eyes.
AlfredAlfer: Well I've never been to the islands
mircea_popescu: costa rica is... not an island.
trinque: was I larping when I sent some dindus away from my door couple months ago?
trinque: had they stepped in, yes, would've shot
AlfredAlfer: Wait a minute.. in MY universe Costa Rica was an island
AlfredAlfer: I want my old universe back !!!
mircea_popescu: trinque he's just bitter cuz he didn't get to shoot anyone.
AlfredAlfer: (ME joke)
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer sorry, it's a little bit of central america.
AlfredAlfer: ok well it's tropical
AlfredAlfer: how are the bugs
mircea_popescu: yes. fulla jungle. and in fact where the spanyards first landed.
mircea_popescu: no relation to puerto rico, which is an island.
mircea_popescu: was hhhhhenifer lopez from there btw ? iirc.
cazalla: trinque, sure, but i'm talking about the Cantwell types who go to a march, stand there while they get shit, piss and acid thrown on them but don't even fire upon them, why bother even showing up then? just to larp
AlfredAlfer: I thought she was from the block
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer http://trilema.com/2017/arachnofobia-inductor/ or http://trilema.com/2017/did-you-ever-claim-to-have-butterflies-in-your-stomach/ take your pick.
AlfredAlfer: why would you fire upon someone and ruin your life forever
mircea_popescu: so they bleed.
AlfredAlfer: People should be able to stand places without getting piss and shit thrown on them
trinque: well... aren't you playing "down with usg except for the bill of rights; really we just mean usg but we want christmas back"
mircea_popescu: man those spider macros are something else.
trinque: I cringe every time I hear the altright try to use "freedome of speech" and so on
AlfredAlfer: I'll take the big spider over the shitmoth
mircea_popescu: it's a butterfly. and they all do it.
trinque: cazalla: can't argue with it; same exact notion re: raising awareness, for sure.
mircea_popescu: oh, and of course, forgot fna! http://trilema.com/2017/the-life-and-times-of-fna/
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer you ever seen a gekko ?
AlfredAlfer: that's a swell lil guy
AlfredAlfer: no not in real life
mircea_popescu: they're overpoweringly cutr.
AlfredAlfer: you're lucky you have so many tropical friends
mircea_popescu: it's skill.
AlfredAlfer: OOh my clockwork orange torrent has finished downloading
mircea_popescu: o btw, whadda ya think of my cartoon header ?
mircea_popescu: inb4 "it sucks, too much white space"
AlfredAlfer: Oh it's very nice. Who is the artist?
mircea_popescu: romanian girl, linked somewhere.
AlfredAlfer: speaking of clockwork orange I released a new song today https://www.bitchute.com/video/YCbQhfPrajo4/
mircea_popescu: won't play for me ;/
mircea_popescu: say, do you do poem readings ?
AlfredAlfer: hmm it's playing for me, others have listened
AlfredAlfer: what do you think of bitchute? Is it impenetrable?
mircea_popescu: well, i think it sucks, because i can't play their content.
AlfredAlfer: why can't you?
AlfredAlfer: you can't get to any vid or just this one?
mircea_popescu: because it's a layered shitcake of bs formats and crap. what was the original item, an ogg ? mp3 ? what ?
AlfredAlfer: hmm. lol layered shitcake.
mircea_popescu: so mpeg4. why not you know, just have a simple link, http:/eyoucis.fuckyou/this-song.mpeg ?
AlfredAlfer: But is it impenetrable nonetheless? It's decentralized
mircea_popescu: wtf is "decentralized" even mean, it's a website.
AlfredAlfer: that won
AlfredAlfer: link won't work
AlfredAlfer: well , I still have much to learn with all these definitions
trinque: looks like they bolted it to bittorrent some way
AlfredAlfer: The only thing I've seen before that I thought would be an alternate internet was maidsafe, but it doesn't seem to be making any moves
mircea_popescu: and by the looks of it, it's made by trhe same spammers from advance publications that onw all the rest of the pointless "segmented" spamsites. from vice to women-shoes-in-michigan.com
cazalla: i'm off, parental stuff.. AlfredAlfer, i'd encourage you to spend more time here and/or reading logs, you will find actual solutions here, altright is lulzfest but even that has died down now due to taking themselves super 1488 seriously
mircea_popescu: "terms". here's a pro tip AlfredAlfer : if a website has "terms" it's shit.
danielpbarron: i met one of the maidsafe "coders" , told her about this place, never joined
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBF8483A93A6DB9A084EB5FC5CB8C66F72E30D46CF44D5B91B600B1A4322B782 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1409...9857 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (health-media2.webwide.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CBF8483A93A6DB9A084EB5FC5CB8C66F72E30D46CF44D5B91B600B1A4322B782 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1561...4537 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '220.127.116.11 (ssh-rsa key from 18.104.22.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (health-media2.webwide.de. DE)
trinque: cya caz
mircea_popescu: trinque check their lulz dns announcement btw. round robin of same ips.
AlfredAlfer: yes, I look forward to learning all about this
AlfredAlfer: oh no, >coder >her
mircea_popescu: anyway. no, i don't expect it's "impenetrable" in any sense.
trinque: look mother, am cyberpunk
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer are you poor ?
danielpbarron: hey some of the best are women. see: eulora
trinque: for the same milage you could stick a torrent on your own site and seed, if you want people to help you with bandwidth
mircea_popescu: much more impenetrable.
AlfredAlfer: Am I poor? Well that's all relative, haha.
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer the correct solution here is to pay 1-200 per month for a dedicated server in a sane jurisdiction (ie, outside of nato). make sure you get a chunk of ips with it, then host all your shit.
AlfredAlfer: Why the fuck isn't the stormer doing that
AlfredAlfer: they get more than enough money
mircea_popescu: unless you're poor, this is the minimum bar of what you do. you pay rent for a house irl, and a smaller rent for a house on the net.
mircea_popescu: because they've no clue.
AlfredAlfer: you're saying you can buy your own individual server outside of nato?
mircea_popescu: and once you have that, and especially if you're present here, you are indeed impenetrable, because people will help.
AlfredAlfer: how do they not know this. I mean I'm technologically incompetent but weev should know that
mircea_popescu: such as with archival/disemination/elasticization and other such topics.
AlfredAlfer: when you say help do you mean with security?
mircea_popescu: many people don't know many things that they should know. it's kinda what nato even means by now, "you have this but not that ?!?!"
mircea_popescu: for instance.
AlfredAlfer: yea I guess most of it's hidden in plain site
AlfredAlfer: well I know for a fact the stormer gets way more than that much money per month
trinque: in usd, I'm sure. and they want to go spend that at the mall.
AlfredAlfer: I thought *they* could access anything they pleased.. find their way into any server.. but indeed, there are ones they cannot access
mircea_popescu: consider : when i put http://trilema.com/2017/the-life-and-times-of-fna/ in the log earlier, the bot archived it, so now it's at http://archive.is/L1Up3
mircea_popescu: this happens automatically, because we said so at some point. similar measures can be taken to further expand defenses indefinitely.
AlfredAlfer: I see
AlfredAlfer: but isn't the archive also located on the same server?
mircea_popescu: and there's also private archives and all sorts of things.
AlfredAlfer: where is it? somewhere else they can access tho, right?
mircea_popescu: the republic is vast and far reaching.
AlfredAlfer: mmm. I bet the pantsuits are stuck in 3 cyberspace dimensions, meanwhile you guys are on like 6
mircea_popescu: all i got to say to that being http://trilema.com/2016/to-be-clear-hillary-clinton-lost-the-presidential-election-on-june-16th-2016/
AlfredAlfer: well that's quite comforting
mircea_popescu: now do me a favour and make yourself a rsa key.
AlfredAlfer: I shall. It's pretty late over here, but I have all of the articles and info you guys sent me open in tabs that will open up as soon as I wake up tomorrow.
AlfredAlfer: I need a fresh brain and a helping hand to do these keys
AlfredAlfer: I'm very excited to learn more
mircea_popescu: peeps'll help.
AlfredAlfer: : )
mircea_popescu: ah, i dun recall what you said, do you read poems ?
AlfredAlfer: Oh - I can, I can read anything. I'm very good at vocal expressions.
AlfredAlfer: Have a decent mic too.
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer http://trilema.com/2015/stop-all-the-clocks-again/ << this is looking for expressing.
AlfredAlfer: that's a good one
AlfredAlfer: I could certainly do it
mircea_popescu: aite, what's keeping you ?
trinque to bed, night all
mod6: ni ni
AlfredAlfer: Well I'll do it if you want me to!
AlfredAlfer: I only ask for one favor in return
AlfredAlfer: Could you give me instructions on how the DS can get an impenetrable domain, through your services or others, that I can relay to weev?
mircea_popescu: well he could just come here and im sure we'll set him up.
mircea_popescu: iirc danielpbarron was trying to arrange something in that vein a few days ago but he never showed.
AlfredAlfer: Okay, I'll tell him. Oh yes, Dan was the one that got me here. Well I talk to weev regularly so I should be able to coax him
danielpbarron: no that was her
mircea_popescu: oh oh.
AlfredAlfer: no worries, I'll ask him myself.
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer it's not like it's hard or something. have him drop by, it'll get sorted out.
mircea_popescu: provided he doesn't go "fuck! why didn't i think of that!" when you show him the convo.
AlfredAlfer: HAhahha. I did screenshot some of the solutions you wrote, if you didn't mind.
mircea_popescu: you can just link to the log, like i do.
mircea_popescu: there's 3 differenty log websites to choose from.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/ http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today
AlfredAlfer: Oh okay. This whole chat is stored forever in the vaults?
AlfredAlfer: Oh Happy September btw
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron consider how close you came to seeing her topless, too!
AlfredAlfer: 'twill forever be a mystery
AlfredAlfer: unless you seriously up the antee on that .08 btc ; )
AlfredAlfer: but no i'm just kidding. I wouldn't do it anyway.
mircea_popescu: wait, what 0.08 ?!
AlfredAlfer: oh I forget what percentage it was
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer why not ? what, it's shameful to have tits or something ?
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer it's 0.02. two bitcents. see ? so you can say "here's my two... bitcents".
AlfredAlfer: Lol i told you that would be a bomb the internet would not soon forget.
mircea_popescu: they forgot boxxy...
AlfredAlfer: boxxy didn't have a rack like mine
AlfredAlfer: also she reincarnated into shoeonhead
danielpbarron: it is pretty nice
mircea_popescu: and all those dumb bimbos with the what was it called, when smartphones got published ?
mod6: yah, fappining.
AlfredAlfer: Well I'm excited to hear your stormer solutions. The boys will be quite pleased.
danielpbarron: the hunger games chick showed her cunt even
AlfredAlfer: Can you give me a quote to really coax him over here?
AlfredAlfer: No worries I'll just link to the suggestions you already wrote out
AlfredAlfer: I really appreciate the help
mircea_popescu: if something like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708428 doesn't make the point for him i dunno what would.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 05:23 mircea_popescu: http://22.214.171.124/2017/beating-that-spark-of-heaven/ << and i don't mean just the root, either.
AlfredAlfer: define root?
AlfredAlfer: sry I'm pretty much good at after effects and flash and have no clue about anything else
mircea_popescu: if you say trilema.com/ that's the root. if you say trilema.com/blabla/bla-bla/ that's two down from root.
AlfredAlfer: oh i see i see
mircea_popescu: first / is the root.
AlfredAlfer: so no one can shut down trilema
mircea_popescu: ah, they try now and again.
AlfredAlfer: even if they started targeting you tomorrow and made a dedicated quest
AlfredAlfer: never succeed? Ever make a dent?
mircea_popescu: but... it's been around for years. it broke the cables story. it broke the fetlife lists. it...
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the pantsuit ignore it.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of history you don't know.
AlfredAlfer: you must really be the big threat then
AlfredAlfer: Ohhh hh i'm sure you could fill my head for weeks and I wouldn't know a fraction
mircea_popescu: can always read the back logs. prolly instructive.
mircea_popescu: at the last count there were ~2mn lines.
AlfredAlfer: oh my how would I ever prune through that
a111: Logged on 2017-08-29 22:22 mircea_popescu just counted, trilema (articles only) stands at 10`631`726 words. this excludes my comments there and of course whatever my share of the log's 2mn lines (ie about what, a further 20-30mn words ?) is.
mircea_popescu: "the republic is vast and far reaching."
AlfredAlfer: mmmm : )))
mod6: Reading the whole log is educational, indeed.
AlfredAlfer: the pantsuits only think they control the tip of the iceberg
AlfredAlfer: let 'em have it
mircea_popescu: well, every girl in nowhere, indiana tells herself "she's got a handle on things".
mircea_popescu: kinda the same principle.
AlfredAlfer: such babies. with their baby fiat.
mircea_popescu: "i'm the 2nd prettiest girl in school... well in my class... well, according to my friends at least. AND THIS MATTERS AND MEANS SOMETHING!"
AlfredAlfer: then they go to college and realize they're just another plane jane in a sea of 8's
AlfredAlfer: (if it's not an american college)
mircea_popescu: from what i hear they've gotten pretty pudgy in college these days.
AlfredAlfer: I guess in that case trilema would be about a 17 on the 10 scale
mircea_popescu: used to be fuckfest of all time, but by now it's kinda more like... too much work to roll over.
AlfredAlfer: you're so out of their league they can't even fathom you
AlfredAlfer: basically college is camp to make girls ugly and fat
AlfredAlfer: I'm lucky i made it out as well as I did
mircea_popescu: o, you went to college ? i thought you sold peanuts!
AlfredAlfer: it's the food poison... go to s korea where there is no food poison, where the girls are dainty and light and sweet and young
AlfredAlfer: yea that's what a degree will get you these days
mircea_popescu: costa rica's not bad.
AlfredAlfer: I started doing peanuts junior year
AlfredAlfer: oh yea i'm sure you got your fair share of thi ccccc latinas
mircea_popescu: well yes because they eat crap. but you don't have to.
AlfredAlfer: *pistachios, tho. They only downgraded to peanuts when the phillies really started suckin'
mircea_popescu: very fine steaks and things, if one can afford.
AlfredAlfer: thi cccc latinas are nice tho, i'm not complaining
mircea_popescu: o, you dig girls ?
AlfredAlfer: No, I'm totally straight
AlfredAlfer: I like men
mircea_popescu: i don't.
AlfredAlfer: but i can appreciate the female form
mircea_popescu: i c!
AlfredAlfer: yea we all can, it's nothing new
AlfredAlfer: i like korean girls
mircea_popescu: well, other than being kinda short, there's plenty of form.
mircea_popescu: i don't!
AlfredAlfer: you know I ran off to S Korea after getting doxed
mircea_popescu: how was it ?
AlfredAlfer: during when Kim was really threatening to nuke Seoul
AlfredAlfer: It was an absolute dream
AlfredAlfer: A functioning ethnostate
mircea_popescu: see, if you had your own space on the web you could show me the articles now.
AlfredAlfer: clean, no bums, respectable people.. and the girls took pride in their appearance
AlfredAlfer: growing up around slovenly sows in america, it's quite jarring to be amongst Korean women
mircea_popescu: doesn't sound too bad.
AlfredAlfer: kinda makes you feel like hsit
AlfredAlfer: food is amazing, and everywhere though. I don't know how they stay so slim.
mircea_popescu: im not so crazy abouyt azn food. other than sushi. and some indian.
mircea_popescu: and kimchi.
AlfredAlfer: Seoul isn't just asian tho.. it's like everything. They've mastered the food. They do fine fried chicken. Better than the blacks.
mircea_popescu: and i suppose im full of it, i like azn food just fine. well, minus the stupid shit where they add sugar.
AlfredAlfer: I <3 <3 <3 sushiiii
mircea_popescu: it's better here than in korea, tho. pretty sure.
mircea_popescu: better fish.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 04:14 AlfredAlfer: for me what did me in was a fat joke
AlfredAlfer: the fat joke?
AlfredAlfer: oh hold on
AlfredAlfer: lol thanks Dan
AlfredAlfer: totally worth it
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer here, one from me in exchange : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1699005
a111: Logged on 2017-08-16 17:33 mircea_popescu: meanwhile at "blondes prefer blacks" farms, http://68.media.tumblr.com/1a7dd6fdaecc66e186cada47a345ee7e/tumblr_o0gsz450rp1ubgc5jo1_1280.jpg
AlfredAlfer: how is that a fat joke
mircea_popescu: it's not a fat joke.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i give it even odds that the "artificial intelligence" thing saw the red crumpled car and the person and decided that is gore.
AlfredAlfer: I think they now have a censor for really mean fat chicks
danielpbarron: that chick died
mircea_popescu: AlfredAlfer do you understant how pantsuit "AI" works ?
AlfredAlfer: yea I know
AlfredAlfer: like their fake AI robots that they pretend are all super-intelligent?
AlfredAlfer: not exactly
mircea_popescu: let's go into detail.
mircea_popescu: so, if i show you two items, an apple and an orange, and i tell you they're all "Fruit" and ask you why, you might say "because they're all round". this is not correct.
mircea_popescu: but the google "ai" works exactly in this manner : show a large matrix a bunch of different pics, and then see what got fished up, so to speak.
AlfredAlfer: so it would see heather heyer and think she was a fruit
a111: Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
mircea_popescu: this actually happens, you flip the pixels it "learned" and it sees the fridge and says cat.
mircea_popescu: because it didn't actually learn anything. it's exact equivalent of exam stuffing, implemented by computers.
mircea_popescu: they don't learn, they just parrot. and it only works if people are banal.
AlfredAlfer: oh no, it's in spanish.. why did the rabbit die
AlfredAlfer: well that's what the pansuits are depending on huh
mircea_popescu: what's in spanish ?
AlfredAlfer: oh, the link you linked to, the first link in the chat
mircea_popescu: link ?
mircea_popescu: oh. that's romanian not spanish.
AlfredAlfer: forgive me it's late and i've had a couple tequilas heh
mircea_popescu: not like i[m offended lol.
AlfredAlfer: well I don't want you to think I'm that dumb haha
mircea_popescu: too late for that :D
AlfredAlfer: my forte is in animation.. all else not so much
AlfredAlfer: well I guess I'm good at fat jokes
mircea_popescu: dun worry about it. my forte is in humiliating women.
AlfredAlfer: well that's a sport I most admire
AlfredAlfer: all my heroes humiliate women
mircea_popescu: you know, the reddit guiys would never guess, but actually a lot of girls do ?
AlfredAlfer: women have an internal drive to be humiliated
mircea_popescu: quite possibly.
AlfredAlfer: anyway, I'm not one of those sickos or anything, I'm not into weird shit
mircea_popescu: lol. you can always tell a girl that grew up in the 50 continental sads, because very shame driven.
mircea_popescu: s'okay, we're unjudgmental assholes here.
AlfredAlfer: yeh, specially being catholic
AlfredAlfer: lol the continental sads
AlfredAlfer: I know. Poisonous thots as far as the eye can see.
mircea_popescu: i should have said "The 50 contiguous sads", but anyway.
AlfredAlfer: both are funny
AlfredAlfer: the united sads of america
mircea_popescu: anyway. the rabbit died cuz i killed it.
AlfredAlfer: I thought perhaps it related to the AI conversation in that someone programmed a bot to kill such and such creature by identifying certain pixels and it mistook the rabbit for what it was supposed to kill
mircea_popescu: nah. unrelated.
AlfredAlfer: Well sir, it's getting quite late over here
AlfredAlfer: I should probably hit the ol hay
AlfredAlfer: Yea, thanks again for having me : )
mircea_popescu: haven't had you yet.
AlfredAlfer: I'll attempt to set up a key tomorrow
AlfredAlfer: And I shall tell Weev all about your bountiful solutions
AlfredAlfer: We will get him here.
mircea_popescu: cool. take it ezzy.
AlfredAlfer: Alrighty. gn8
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708302 << this is so cute. "buzzword applies, yes ?". incantorial technomagix.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 04:24 AlfredAlfer: Trilema's decentralized though, right?
mod6: not sure why i didn't notice before, but I just realized where the tit id's come from. heheh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708320 << this is even cuter. the leading + just means it's voiced, not part of the name you know!
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 04:35 AlfredAlfer: Oh thank you for posting my cartoon, +a111
mircea_popescu pictures cartman going "BUT!! are you a111 positive ???"
mod6: heheh. athoritah.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck have i done nothing but logs and some light fucking today and im looking at a log page halfway through!
mircea_popescu: this is going to get worser.
mod6: yeah, been pretty steep last few days 'eh
mircea_popescu: i dunno, back in say 2014-2015 we had 1.5-2k-2.5k line logs and it wasn't such a load. but the lines musta gotten denser or something, because even 1k nowadays is like... god.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't have aged that much in a few years!
mod6: heheh. i wonder what the btcbase (or previous incantation) link density is yoy.
mod6: like, if we're more recently linking things more heavily recently than we were previously, giving rise to deeper discussions to digest.
mod6: bah, redundancy s/recently//
mircea_popescu: possibly yea
mod6: we're also getting a bit more lenient on "must read 6mos of logs first" rule imho. and reasonably so when introductions are concerned, but last few days, we've seen a number of threads that could have been avoided.
mircea_popescu: true huh.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC3FF1F24025B7135FED17EF79F4480D60B434AD8F09F2130F8C6A438943D21E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1650...5729 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-71-252-132-249.dllstx.fios.frontiernet.net. US TX)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC3FF1F24025B7135FED17EF79F4480D60B434AD8F09F2130F8C6A438943D21E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1783...7949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-71-252-132-249.dllstx.fios.frontiernet.net. US TX)
mod6: this is a tough one however; often we want to discuss matters without having to wait weeks for someone to come back, fully read. but, tradeoffs.
mircea_popescu: yeah, im not complaining about noise level, which'd be aptly addressed by "Stfu nubs and go read logs".
mircea_popescu: kinda on the contrary.
diana_coman: and I thought it was only me struggling to find time to keep up to date on logs lately, ha
mod6: hi diana_coman
diana_coman: hi mod6
mod6: i tried to help a guy on eulora, failed. lol. maybe he'll figure it out though.
mircea_popescu: his problem was pretty bizarro.
diana_coman: yeah, I think you actually held his hand quite a lot but who knows what he has there exactly
mod6: yeah, not quite sure.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 05:10 AlfredAlfer: say you're completely anonymous, don't use your real name, like I assume all you guys do.. is it easy for them to tie what you've said onto your actual person?
diana_coman: no worries; he might get sorted with danielpbarron's recipe
mircea_popescu: i'm mircea_popescu , danielpbarron is danielpbarron, diana_coman is diana_coman and so following.
mircea_popescu: like half the people actually use own names for nicks, and most of the rest are about as far removed as you with your alfred.
diana_coman: lol at this idea that "completely anonymous" = "don't use your real name"
mircea_popescu: !~google Power Word : Real Name
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Powerword - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Powerword>; Power Word : Real Name - GraphJam - funny graphs - Cheezburger: <http://cheezburger.com/4669066240>; Urban Dictionary: powerword: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3Fterm%3Dpowerword>
mod6: /nick JohnnyMcFucksticks
mod6: diana_coman: how's your node goin? still sync'in?
mircea_popescu: in other shit i discover, tila tequilla isn't who i thought it was.
diana_coman: mod6, yeah, node's been fine for quite a while; I'm still looking at the options to run one with a public ip too but not yet settled on that
mod6: no sweat, glad to hear that it's going alright for ya.
asciilifeform: !!up needhelpwithnode
deedbot: needhelpwithnode voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: incidentally, re 'raw ip addrs hurt me head' folx -- possibly something like http://gurno.com/adam/mne ( e.g. '18.104.22.168 = far-cab-raw-tap' ) would cure'em
asciilifeform: some people have allergy to digits, it seems
asciilifeform: moldbug et al had their own version of this ( https://archive.is/f0siO << asciilifeform's lispified take on it )
asciilifeform: eats 32bits and gives you, e.g., 'pobmol-dabmek'.
a111: Logged on 2015-05-08 01:24 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/2E0CYZQ << example of binary shenanigans that i like to give
asciilifeform: this could easily be a, say, plugin for heathen browsers etc.
asciilifeform wonders if 'exciting' text, e.g., 'anal-punishment-drill-thrust', could be moar memorable than syllablesoup
asciilifeform: in very very other noose : the vendor's vga and ps/2 kbd demo verilog for ice40 builds and WORX
asciilifeform: display syncs and displays moving (via arrow keys) sprite.
asciilifeform: ( olimex sells a little adapter that bolts vga db15 plug and minidin ps/2 to the ice40-1k and -8k boardz )
asciilifeform: vga bouncyball is a 'pons asinorum' of sorts, in fpgadom.
asciilifeform: ( https://www.olimex.com/Products/FPGA/iCE40/iCE40-IO/ << iron component of subj )
asciilifeform: heya mod6
mod6: how goes alf?
asciilifeform: see l0g
mod6: <+asciilifeform> in very very other noose : the vendor's vga and ps/2 kbd demo verilog for ice40 builds and WORX << cool
mod6: 9.95 EUR ea. cheaper bulk prices too.
asciilifeform: mod6: it ain't an everybody-go-buy-9999 item imho
asciilifeform: moar of an aficionado thing
asciilifeform: now on the other hand if somebody sold a board with, e.g., several MB of sram + nic magnetics + uart hole -- then yes
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708749 << And that Olympic football goalie had a telephoto lens on her starfish
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 06:35 danielpbarron: the hunger games chick showed her cunt even
BingoBoingo: Here's another fat joke: "Acral dry gangrene"
trinque: thanks BingoBoingo for today's mental hardening exercise
BingoBoingo: trinque: You are very welcome
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 07:36 mircea_popescu: in other shit i discover, tila tequilla isn't who i thought it was.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: None | Current Difficulty: 8.88171856257E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 483839 | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4832.0, vol: 13524.44295983 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4828.4, vol: 24507.9583815 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4830.6, vol: 4261.1159359 | Volume-weighted last average: 4829.77284514
BingoBoingo: Oh, still crashing... very quaint
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 <<< none of them even knows how to find a browser without autocomplete.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 13:51 asciilifeform: incidentally, re 'raw ip addrs hurt me head' folx -- possibly something like http://gurno.com/adam/mne ( e.g. '22.214.171.124 = far-cab-raw-tap' ) would cure'em
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708973 << no. some non-people are trained as part of their non-people training at the hands of old women to a. never show their cunt in public b. run away whenever specific sounds are heard (1. sirens, 2. "freeze", 3. "nigger", 4. numbers and math, 5. etcetera). this is how old women build "a society" which looks exactly like fucking john gast's "american progress", a "painting" made by tele
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 13:51 asciilifeform: some people have allergy to digits, it seems
mircea_popescu: graph operators/industrial draughtsmen about how "rain follows the plow" and other convenient anthropo-globalwarmisms of the oldwman herd cca 1800.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709009 << so you make a mnemonizer that fits on propaganda pamphlet, wat. gotta separate 'is problem worth solving' from the 'how to solve'
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 <<< none of them even knows how to find a browser without autocomplete.
mircea_popescu: and somehow nobody picked up the pantsuited abominations of THAT period and whipped them to death to appease the dust bowl dust gods.
mircea_popescu: because, you've guessed it, "anyone could have bought into it" and "nobody could have predicted".
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is there to predict ? that old women are stupid ? that the children they raise http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706699 ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 21:57 mircea_popescu: the only reasonable move for safeguarding earth's future, is to keep you lot as far as feasible from any buttons that are connected to anything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my point was that by the time they typed in 83 the rest of the "unmemorizable address" is already filled in.
mircea_popescu: anyway, im going to meet mah local lawyers over lunch about potential lulz, so bbl.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contemplated scenario is d00d shouting propaganda, go to joepunishesmaryslowlywithabroomstickinaconcerthall.com and that turns into 126.96.36.199 etc
mircea_popescu: why not just REMEMBER 123.45 and put that in.
asciilifeform: because you ain't remembering, you're megaphoning
asciilifeform: to a crowded train, or whatever.
mircea_popescu: i heard chix megaphoning 1-2-3-4 befoar.
trinque: old farts still manage to key in the phone number to call AM radio
asciilifeform: mnemonism is a thing. 200+yrs state of art.
mircea_popescu: apparently it's a lost technology, this, the NUMBER
mircea_popescu: forget pantsuits trying to take the url out of the browser. apparently they convinced the herd to live without numbers ?
trinque: without anything not attached to a single button press on rectangular glass
trinque: can even shake the thing like a monkey if you didn't mean it!
asciilifeform: trinque: yer comparing unlikes. d00d with same phone # for 50 yrs != shouting to crowd containing entire iq bellcurve and going for max % who remember when they get home
mircea_popescu: we ARE going for max.
mircea_popescu: this is baked in.
mircea_popescu: republic = going for max ; empire = going for many.
mircea_popescu: there is no way to escape this, whoseover goes for many is our enemy and i shall personally knife his rabbits.
asciilifeform: pov is from area denial op ( kill dns as a thing perceived to be required by the cattle ) rather than 'for republic', was what i thought
mircea_popescu: we infect it ; it doesn't infect us.
asciilifeform: then dns will still exist 100y from nao
asciilifeform: with the attendant unearned rents for derps.
mircea_popescu: maybe in a zoo
mircea_popescu: anyway, bbl for realz.
trinque: hasta luego
trinque: asciilifeform: kids do more work installing cracked games and so on than it is to put something in hosts file
asciilifeform: trinque ( and others ) : out of curiosity, how many ipv4's do you personally keep in yer head ? ( NOT counting 'magics' , e.g. 127.0.0.1 )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform walks around with maybe a dozen
trinque: I don't keep 'em in head, but hostfile
asciilifeform: that works for folx 'with jobs, jerry, and office' -- i.e. fleet of unix boxes
trinque: sure, got even a local cache of DNS sitting here
asciilifeform: what will you suggest to the iphonist ? 'fuck off and go sit on a road cone' ?
asciilifeform: ( is what asciilifeform's emulated mircea_popescutron replied )
trinque: bookmark the digits with a name
asciilifeform: and let's say you wanted to speak it
asciilifeform: gonna 'alpha bravo charlie fullstop....' etc?
trinque: "fifty two" "twenty eight" "two hundred seven" "five" ??
asciilifeform: ever done this over a noisy radio ( or shitphone ) all day ?
asciilifeform: 0 eggogs?
ben_vulpes: what as if there are zero with spellable names gtfo
trinque: why make dns better rather than murder leaving no trace?
trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.
asciilifeform: trinque: because it is very difficult to murder with no trace a thing to which all of the apparent alternatives are spike cones.
asciilifeform: and the problem has applications elsewhere ( dictating rsa keys over voice etc )
trinque: but "I want the page with hash H"
trinque: and whichever peers have it or don't
asciilifeform: shouting hex digits is lame.
trinque: peers may even say "here's what I think dailysturmer is" and you go pick a hash to use
asciilifeform: and makes poor use of not only bandwidth but the frontbrain which is sitting right there.
trinque: which yes means every single update to ds index page has to flow through someone you know gossiptronically for you to know about it
asciilifeform: trinque: 'address by pubkey' yes
asciilifeform: i thought it was obvious Right Thing
asciilifeform: !#s dicelist
asciilifeform: ah there.
trinque: eh not sold on addressing being the thing; addressing identifies who I asked
trinque: the hash says what item I want
asciilifeform: there is no WHO separate from pubkey.
trinque: no shit eh?
trinque: but then that station goes down and I wanted an item from it; then what?
asciilifeform: then as trinque said.
asciilifeform: it goes down, the answer to your query of its pubkey is mu until goes back up, neh
asciilifeform: how else
trinque: I said how else.
trinque: how the p2p networks, gnutella et al, worked, but routed over gossipd wotnet
asciilifeform: aa in the sense of dht
trinque: yessir, dht atop what you're talking about would be quite robust to this whole "hurr durr took down the website FBI logo srs"
asciilifeform: ( i use one of these ~daily, 'kademlia' )
asciilifeform: 'gimme ff143abcd...' 'hereitis'/'nobodygotit'
asciilifeform: the tricky bit is how to propagate these without ending up with 'no individual node gives anything to allcomers, yes, but allcomer can ring the whole world as a bell and it never stops'
trinque: and yes would kill the "dynamic web" thing which, what the fuck, it's hypertext not a program, even if a program generated the hypertext.
asciilifeform: kad did this with traditional 'time to live' but that is promisetronic ultimately
asciilifeform: trinque: 'www server should serve statics' is great until you realize that you use phf's search box every day and it's a dynamicism
asciilifeform: what nao.
asciilifeform: see the 'phuctor as a static www' thread
trinque: wot.deedbot.org serves statics.
trinque: even the search
asciilifeform: how's that work ?
asciilifeform: ( how does POST work statically ?? )
trinque: anything you're using as a search index can exist as some file with a hash your DHTinator could pull itself and look at on your end.
asciilifeform: substrings, trinque -- what happens when i type 'anything you're using as a search index can exist' string into your search ?
asciilifeform: describe plox the algo
trinque: are we really trying to preserve every idiotic misuse of hypertext here?
asciilifeform: fulltext search is not a misuse
trinque: by your line of questioning kad can't search
asciilifeform: how do i make a phuctor at all with your algo ? ( how do users submit a key ?? )
trinque: by sending you a key over gossipd
asciilifeform: kad can only search by hash of entire parcel.
trinque: where does hypertext come into that, except "SOP"
asciilifeform: trinque: so we're contemplating a separation of reads and writes into unlike protocols ?
asciilifeform: ( this is not necessarily a bad idea, but i'd like to hear moar re how )
trinque: exactly how wot.deedbot.org works neh?
trinque: eats via bot
trinque: maybe bot's offline, can't eat
trinque: so yes, if wot.deedbot.org were on gossipd it'd eat by bot attached to particular station, maybe redundant somehow, but leaving that aside, this contemplated DHT could still make particular states of the thing redundant past the the death of trinque
asciilifeform: trinque: lemme confess to you the context : i recently took a break from $usual to write an ada www server, and quickly barfed. because thought 'and what, it also gotta handle POSTs, and quickly becomes asinine mess of horror'
asciilifeform: but say it DIDN'T handle posts...
asciilifeform: let's work out a concrete example
trinque: hypertext's an inert datastructure, gives you a graph to crawl over while reading. why's it gotta be an interactive program aside that usecase?
trinque: there was a very recent thread re: this
asciilifeform: let's take http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DDDE667282B355D21D9F0E3505442E332AB082F487BFFC440034D11D636FD6A7 , well-known lulzgem.
asciilifeform: how would you convert this to trinque-addressing scheme without losing functionality ?
asciilifeform: ( or, alternatively, what functionality would you have phuctor lose ? )
trinque: lets say it's phuctored again. your station broadcasts to whoever it cares to tell, a particular identifier unique within your station now points to a new hash.
trinque: my station hears, can ask you for the goods.
asciilifeform: forget the pushing variant. i want to put a handle on a particular pgpkey or pgpfp into the l0gz. what does that look like ?
trinque: folks can now ask me whether I have a particular hash, but can only know you meant it to mean "mahmood-anal-perforation-7" if they know you, or if you signed the fact that it is
trinque: it looks like the hash of an item, and whatever thing is showing me logs either knows what it is, or doesn't
asciilifeform: to reformulate : how do i refer to an index into a db that is indexable by more than one column ?
asciilifeform: phuctor deals in TWO types of hash
trinque: no multiple columns; one hash and it's upon the reader to be able to find the item or not.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha procrustes thx but no thx, plz play again
asciilifeform: without procrustation this time
trinque: eh I have lost interest by now.
asciilifeform: it's an actual open problem, wat
asciilifeform: i'd like to see it solved.
asciilifeform: ( and not defined away, but solved. )
trinque: you're going to have to point out to me where link-by-hash fails then
trinque: and why my reader, being able to resolve hashes of items ~or not~ based on what my station knows, and peer stations tell me.
asciilifeform: it fails because -- in the particular example i gave -- it ain't 1:1
trinque: your aliases for items which identify membership of the item in some set *are themselves items which your station publishes, individually*
trinque: you belch out facts, rest of the world can either hear you or not, can either confirm you said them or not. or wtf was gossipd again?
asciilifeform: trinque: you're mixing layers. basic mechanics of gossiptron is not in dispute, q was re how to query a db by more than 1 possible index col
trinque: why do you wish to express querying in terms of a hypertext interface at all?
trinque: !!gettrust deedbot asciilifeform
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 10 by 10 connections.
asciilifeform: trinque: q is re what a 'url' ( or what we call it instead ) really ~is~
asciilifeform: is it a locative ? or an immutable
trinque: as locative, it's not doing so hot.
asciilifeform: consider, for sake of argument, curl http://wot.deedbot.org/29F5BC967632415AB9836DB63E452A7A2A00DEC1.html | sha512sum today gives me 19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25
trinque: and URL as some kind of query language is abominable
asciilifeform: but tomorrow could be something else, if the ratings change
asciilifeform: trinque: the thing behind that url is ephemeral by nature.
asciilifeform: the only meaningful way to represent it is by listing the input operands which produced it ( in this case, the fp arg )
asciilifeform: just same as with the phuctor example
asciilifeform: just like http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC02BECF037180105CA079586B51212366B61A8CD3BB5992FD2F90CF9FC7D6C5 , a d00d whose key is unbroken, the page can have potentially very different output the ~next~ time you read it
trinque: yes. my station told you that wot.deedbot.org/arbitrarystringforsakeofargument.html means 19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25
trinque: and tomorrow you ask and it says new hash, and maybe even gives you the hashed item, how nice
trinque: and as I describe things the gossipdnet now has, if it wants, a history of what its seen, and a way to refer to it.
asciilifeform: trinque: might i persuade you to write the algo out ? in longhand
asciilifeform: ( sorta like my http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000257.html item , for instance )
asciilifeform: more pedantic -- the merrier
asciilifeform: i promise to read.
trinque: sure, will write.
asciilifeform: incidentally ted nelson struggled with this conundrum, and imho his failure to produce anything looked like a solution, is 1 of the reasons why he was relegated to 'voice in wilderness' rather than getting to define www
asciilifeform: ( the www people simply pissed on the problem, african-style, and didn't even pretend to solve )
asciilifeform: *anything which looked like
trinque: imagine the hilarity of actual human communication resembling www; you and I wish to speak irl, we go to the designated 3rd party for the particular language we'll speak, he relays between us and all other folks discussing same.
asciilifeform: 'hey trinque, what's your gurl's favourite colour?' '19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25....'
asciilifeform: ah trinque you meant the incaism of dns etc
trinque: www itself is an incaism. death to "it was said on arsebook walled garden; lives and dies at the mercy of arsebook"
trinque: anyhow will write, not gonna try to babble it into logs further.
asciilifeform: is trinque familiar with 'eternity' and earlier attempts at perma-dht 133337w4r3ztronics ?
trinque: not that particular one, but I would hazard a guess it lacked the hierarchial trust topology that makes other republican items work.
trinque afk for a sec
Barbarossa_: any chance of a price cut for FUCKGOATS w BTC @ ATH?
ben_vulpes: Barbarossa_: there was just a price cut
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: btc has been at alltimehigh maybe 4 days out of 5 for past 6 months neh
asciilifeform: and yes there was recently a price cut
asciilifeform: there are no plans to peg the price, however, to a fixed quantity of usd, or troy of gold, or pounds of grain, or any other babylonian metric.,
asciilifeform: because why.
Barbarossa_: kinda strange to use BTC as unit of account already, no?
asciilifeform: why it strange, and usd -- not ?
asciilifeform: 1 btc is worth 1 btc today -- just as in 2009
trinque: ikr, usd loses value all the time. serious variance.
asciilifeform: so what variance
asciilifeform: 'time flows at 1 second per second ' (tm)(r)
Barbarossa_: don't get me wrong: I'm mostly just trying to wrangle for an even cheaper implementation of gold standard entropy (despite not being a joo)
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: technically you can get it for exactly what it costs us -- make it yerself from the schematics
Barbarossa_: ye, division of labor and all that
asciilifeform: however, the difference b/w what ~that~ costs, and what we charge, is denominated in btc.
ben_vulpes: Barbarossa_: jewdom is a state of mind
Barbarossa_: damnit, guess I'm a self-loathing crytoJOO after all :(
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: to shed more light on (entirely not seekrit) price structure -- to pay for producing a device, btc is spent. then it gotta be earned back.
ben_vulpes: hey it could be worse, you could be cryojewnic
hanbot: Barbarossa_ if you own tits in some capacity you could always apply the proceeds of http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ to your order eh
asciilifeform: btc earned back. not -- pointedly -- usd, or dubloons, or grain.
asciilifeform: it does 0 good to earn back something other than the btc that was spent. because snsa operates in btc.
asciilifeform: does this make sense ?
ben_vulpes: how is s.nsa earning the btc back with the price cuts? were materials not paid for in btc many moons past?
Barbarossa_: yup; tbh I'd pay 3x what you're charging
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the answer lies -- megasurprise -- in the broadcasts.
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: waiwat -- you'd pay 3x, but not the current price ?!
asciilifeform: you're welcome to send in 3x the btc !
asciilifeform: and specify 'no thx i only want 1 box'
Barbarossa_: I mostly just wanted to bring up FUCKGOATS coz I'm so happy that it exists
asciilifeform: why ty Barbarossa_
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: consider introducing yourself ? who are you ? already own a fg ?
Barbarossa_: no - my PGP keys were all generated on a diddled wintel box
Barbarossa_: I'm a professsional poker player from the UK
asciilifeform: i expect a pokerist would have something to say re rng, aha
Barbarossa_: but I'm in the process of getting trb/linux/FG and all that
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: you should definitely stick around until mircea_popescu wakes up
Barbarossa_: well, 6 riffle shuffles are enough for us ;)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is co-author of fg.
asciilifeform: ( and many other nice things )
Barbarossa_: Pokerstars, the largest site, uses a semi-transparent mirror for entropy
Barbarossa_: dunno how practical that'd be for a FG-type device tho
asciilifeform: the problem with that method, as with many others, is the ~measurement~ apparatus
asciilifeform: analogue effects in practice suck for proper rng
asciilifeform: because of adc artifacts.
Barbarossa_: ye, the key advantage to FG being auditability
asciilifeform: i experimented with many types of rng.
Barbarossa_: me too
Barbarossa_: run-good AND run-bad :D
asciilifeform: i rejected all physical effects which require an adc
asciilifeform: because there is NO such thing as a zero-artifact adc.
asciilifeform: and they all suffer from the equivalent of lcd moire
asciilifeform: ( sampling artifact )
asciilifeform: also rejected all effects which require high voltages, because voltagemultipliers contain oscillator
asciilifeform: ( which in turn works its way into the output, no matter what you do )
asciilifeform: so no geigers, no reversebiased diodes.
asciilifeform: this left johnson noise; and natural radioactivity + scintillation detector. the latter may appear in a future snsa product.
asciilifeform: ( but it won't be cheap. )
Barbarossa_: I read the FG documentation - will be interesting verifying everything as a total layman
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: see some linked examples ( near top of page , near the schems ) of other folx who verified.
Barbarossa_: thanks, will do
asciilifeform: and plz do consider posting a link here, when you have.
asciilifeform: ( when you get one, and verify in various ways )
Barbarossa_: did you also create the PGP signing dongle thing?
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: in the process of prototyping that one, we found that gpg is a turd
Barbarossa_: hmm looks like I need to read more logs
Barbarossa_: I've been using GPG assuming it's sound
asciilifeform: a replacement is in the works here.
Barbarossa_: true philanthropy!
asciilifeform: not so much from philanthropy, as from the fact of gpg being rather like the sarcophagus at chernobyl, times 9000
asciilifeform: the main failure is that it does not :
asciilifeform: !#s fits in head
Barbarossa_: built by Ukranians in the 1980s?
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: worse, built by
asciilifeform: !#s koch
asciilifeform: enemy agent.
Barbarossa_: but, but, but, open sauce, thousand eyes and all that
asciilifeform: !#s fly eyes
danielpbarron: Barbarossa_, i might be interested in selling you one for a little less. what were you looking to spend?
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: see also http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg
Barbarossa_: I don't actually mind paying retail, thanks though!
danielpbarron: hm, ok
Barbarossa_: thanks for the links, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: omfg it's rentalstarter all over again
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: np. i recommend to stay tuned until mircea_popescu wakesup
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ?
ben_vulpes: old assets lolz, "rentalstarter" froze asset trading and then sold a pile of shares at above market price to "mystery investor who wanted to pay more than market price"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's nuffin wrong with folx reselling fg, or using it for fly fishing, or balloon ballast, whatever
ben_vulpes: iz joek
asciilifeform: wasn't obvious
ben_vulpes: guy wants to buy at above market clearing price; it's funny!
ben_vulpes: but also cool
Barbarossa_: not saying I want to, just that I would!
Barbarossa_: beats rolling dice all day
ben_vulpes: Barbarossa_: market clearing price is danielpbarron's lower-than-snsa offer
Barbarossa_: ah right, well - I like filling in webforms
asciilifeform: sorta like that thread where asciilifeform mentioned that he'd buy a 10,000$ comp. but not same comp he has , hopefully ! but ~a~ comp
Barbarossa_: danielpbarron - currently reading Idols for Destruction - you'd probably enjoy it
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> old assets lolz, "rentalstarter" froze asset trading and then sold a pile of shares at above market price to "mystery investor who wanted to pay more than market price" << AHA, Thetwentyyear or some shit like that
BingoBoingo: !#s Thetwentyyear
BingoBoingo: !#s rentalstarter
BingoBoingo: Ah, sorry The20YearIRCloud was it's name
asciilifeform: if you think you see somebody willingly paying 'more than market price', consider that you might be mistaken re the identity of what he's paying for
ben_vulpes: fg from ft meade!
asciilifeform: so if mircea_popescu is paying ben_vulpes 10 dubloons per diem to guard his plutonium stash, it does not follow that this is 'above market' just because there is a queue of redditors offering to do it for 1 dubloon
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all fg should be assumed to pass through ftmeade. sorta what the audit process is for, neh.
ben_vulpes: well yeah
asciilifeform: though i've thought about suggesting to mircea_popescu to offer hand-delivery ( chore would fall to asciilifeform... ) as an option. but i dun like nonflat prices
ben_vulpes: for my illumination, what do you figure Barbarossa_ is buying from you that he is not from danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i don't know specifically what.
BingoBoingo: Well 2nd as opposed to first batch for one
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you expect from toyota when you go to them instead of used dealer ?
Barbarossa_: time to setup all the PGP stuff and a hot wallet to send the bitcoin etc
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: once you get a pgp key, consider registering with deedbot
ben_vulpes: oh no, danielpbarron is mining with customer hardware!
Barbarossa_: didn't wanna say yes, then have to delay a week getting ready to actually buy
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i haven't any notion, maybe he runs them near his particle accelerator's beamline, wat.
asciilifeform: for that matter, maybe ~asciilifeform~ does. but you have to ~add~ P(one) to P(the other)...
ben_vulpes: could be!
asciilifeform: whereas if you get from asciilifeform strictly, it's just that one P.
asciilifeform: sorta what the toyota example is about.
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: where can i find out re pokerstars rng ?
asciilifeform: all i found was this http://www.gaminglabs.com/extranetGLI/cmsAdmin/getsplash.asp?i=190
Barbarossa_: iirc I read it on their official blog, but this was a couple years back
asciilifeform: which contains not only no proof of anything, but not even an assertion re what exactly they supposedly use
Barbarossa_: they claimed to fire photons at a semi-transparent mirror hosted somewhere in the Isle of Man
asciilifeform: 'We submitted extensive information about our random number generator (RNG) to an independent organization. We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG, and its implementation in the shuffling of the cards on our platform.'
Barbarossa_: they made/make no pretensions as to verifiability
Barbarossa_: gambers gonna gamble regardless
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: there are commercial rng that use interferometer, yes ( NONE of them auditable by owner, in fact many epoxied and otherwise artificially painful to examine )
asciilifeform: and cheapest i know of, is north of 20,000 usd per
asciilifeform: ( and problematic in other ways -- not even shy about using 'whitening' for instance. )
Barbarossa_: fwiw I've never heard a player even ask how they generate the entropy
Barbarossa_: I didn't care myself - until bitcoin existed
asciilifeform: #!s provably fair
asciilifeform: !#s provably fair
asciilifeform: ^ was in fashion for a while. prng is used, and the next day (week, month, etc) seed is published. however,
Barbarossa_: Pokerstars explicity claim TRNG
asciilifeform: this does not actually solve the problem of proving that the output of prng was not known in advance to one or more of the players.
asciilifeform: claiming trng is unprovable. they might have a fg, or they might have a wad of bytes generated in 2014 and designated winners get a copy.
asciilifeform: designated losers -- get 'chance'
Barbarossa_: that has been a problem in the past - a la a site known as Unibet
Barbarossa_: or was it Ultimate Bet? I forget. There have been a lot of scams
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu !
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: there are arcane approaches to solving the problem mathematically ( see shamir's poker , etc ) but afaik none in battlefield use today.
Barbarossa_: thanks, will read up on it, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: meet mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 << would cure nobody, they want it to "how does the shutdown relate to me". the larger half of the whole "left or right can of pepsi" is the subjective impression of "personalization" of can of pepsi.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 13:51 asciilifeform: incidentally, re 'raw ip addrs hurt me head' folx -- possibly something like http://gurno.com/adam/mne ( e.g. '188.8.131.52 = far-cab-raw-tap' ) would cure'em
mircea_popescu: how goes it.
Barbarossa_: better for having a load of logs to chew through
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 15:38 asciilifeform: display syncs and displays moving (via arrow keys) sprite.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709048 << at least on linux. not so sure you can run anything like it on windows ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:45 trinque: asciilifeform: kids do more work installing cracked games and so on than it is to put something in hosts file
mircea_popescu: !~google dns masquerade for windows
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Simple DNS Plus: <http://simpledns.com/>; MaraDNS - a small open-source DNS server: <http://www.maradns.org/>; Dual DHCP DNS Server download | SourceForge.net: <https://sourceforge.net/projects/dhcp-dns-server/>
trinque: am I dating myself here?
asciilifeform: winblowz has a hosts.txt, wat
mircea_popescu: nm, it exists.
mircea_popescu: trinque hm ?
trinque: used to do all kinds of "patch this file in that dir with leethax.exe" when I was in teens
asciilifeform: trinque: still done
mircea_popescu: ah yeah.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709049 << again, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709022
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:45 asciilifeform: trinque ( and others ) : out of curiosity, how many ipv4's do you personally keep in yer head ? ( NOT counting 'magics' , e.g. 127.0.0.1 )
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my point was that by the time they typed in 83 the rest of the "unmemorizable address" is already filled in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, i'm sold
asciilifeform: trinque convinced.
mircea_popescu: not to mention you know, fucken bookmarks.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709065 << for the record, slashdot was named SPECIOFICALLY as to bother lamers. "wait, http:///. ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:50 ben_vulpes: what as if there are zero with spellable names gtfo
mircea_popescu: there was a time when most ghosts had no idea wtf this http is and how does internets again ?
mircea_popescu: that time was a decade ago.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:50 trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.
asciilifeform: i can see where mircea_popescu is going. they had nfi, then some 'kind' soul 'helped'
asciilifeform: and now we have whatwehave.
mircea_popescu: and they still have nfi, and still can be helped.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem, with pantsuit as prb alike : they lack the capacity to influence reality. at any point, arbitrarily long chain of "progress", unwound at 0 cost.
mircea_popescu: even at a profit.
danielpbarron: Barbarossa_, take your time. also i would not sell you one i already opened; i have plenty still sealed in the electrostatic bag
Barbarossa_: no worries - didn't mean to besmirch your character - just not waste your time
danielpbarron: Barbarossa_, what's the book you mentioned about?
Barbarossa_: "The conflict of Christian faith and American culture"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709109 << it's not directly clear that search is misuse of hypertext
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 20:05 trinque: are we really trying to preserve every idiotic misuse of hypertext here?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho trinque hit upon a potentially good 'engineer cut' tho -- separation of 'fetch me this thing, that we know exists' from 'perform the following computation with these-here params'
mircea_popescu: this makes sense ya
trinque: isn't a misuse, yes, but search UI is not implemented with it.
asciilifeform: the former is ffatronic ( bound! ) ; the latter -- potentially unbound
mircea_popescu: in this view the "web" logsearch is really properly "that part of uci you lot intuiutively implemented"
trinque: deedbot vs wot.deedbot.org separation of concern is what I'm driving at, will drive at it more clearly when paybot dislodged from queue.
trinque: specifically publishing is a separate concern from the rest, and would benefit from the fault tolerance proposed.
asciilifeform: separation of flies and cutlets algo works best by starting from the peripheries -- take off the flies which clearly touch only flies, and the cutlerstuff that clearly touches solely cutletstuff.
Barbarossa_: mircea_popescu: Romanian gamblers have warned me to stay away from their womenfolk, no matter how voluptuous - apparently more trouble than worth - good advice?
asciilifeform: then and only then, the middle.
mircea_popescu: Barbarossa_ i have no idea.
trinque: lol, maybe they like their women enough to keep!
Barbarossa_: they don't seem to date them
mircea_popescu: i can't even parse that, wtf is "romanian gamblers", and what is "their womenfolk" and what is voluptuous here and so on.
mircea_popescu: whatever. if you're looking for advice, the correct advice is stay away from women.
Barbarossa_: hot Romanian females deal in the UK; .ro d00ds aren't impressed
mircea_popescu: say what now ?
Barbarossa_: sorry - in UK casinos there are lots of Romanian dealers
mircea_popescu: i had no idea uk even had casinos.
Barbarossa_: ye, gambling is surprisingly lax here
mircea_popescu: what do they do there, eat pringles and show each other their id badges ?
Barbarossa_: basically only freedom we hve
Barbarossa_: more or less
mircea_popescu: sounds very properly uk-dismal.
mircea_popescu: Barbarossa_ write it up sometime, with pics and everything, i'd read. got a blog ?
Barbarossa_: It's a LOT less interesting than you're imagining, I can promise you that
Barbarossa_: we actually have GTO-approximation software now
Barbarossa_: PIOsolver, for example
mircea_popescu: honestly i wasn't imagining anything beyond a http://trilema.com/2015/varia-varietatis-or-your-all-about-the-mollusc-guide/#selection-153.0-153.35 sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: argentines also think they have casinos.
Barbarossa_: haha, the UK casinos are a *little* nicer - but the US has the best I've seen, by far
mircea_popescu: i prefer costa rica, because no access control.
mircea_popescu is never showing id to go into a casino, ever.
Barbarossa_: sweet - they're super stringent in the UK; US pretty laid back in my experience
mircea_popescu: i don't know anyone but idiots and poor orcs still in that shithole. romanians fine example of both categories.
Barbarossa_: can't argue with that, though there is admittedly some selection bias: only Romanians I know are professional gamblers
Barbarossa_: they do seem uniquely miserable, though - even by British standards
mircea_popescu: there's loads of "it experts" who get all excited about salaries being slightly higher than in bucharest and then do indescribably stupid bullshit in the vein of undertaking 30 year adjustable mortgages to buy the utter shit that passes for real estate in england and there only.
mircea_popescu: there's also loads of whores, and some migrant gypsies. the latter category possibly only ones who are both having fun and using the uk as it is intended and merits to be used.
Barbarossa_: which is?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/am-mai-contribuit-si-noi-la-cite-ceva-n-lume/ << a fine example.
mircea_popescu: "She said: These people have just trashed 30 years of my life and thrown it into bin bags. It is soul-destroying."
mircea_popescu: considering the old woman in question worked for the uk govt, there are truly fewer things more upright or morally deserving to do than to destroy her soul and throw the bits in the garbage.
mircea_popescu: and the inept copper is trying to flirt with the hussy, in their inept cuckolded way. and she's evidently privy to it, and so is her cousin. (2nd pic)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709154 << seems the correct solution is the layer of indirection. you do have actual information, which is immutable, and which can be served as urls ; and you have indexing etcetera, which yes is mutable, but which also best lives as an alias layer on top of urls. so in this sense : each line in the log is an url ; the query for "give me the by-day list of archives" just like the query for
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 20:24 asciilifeform: is it a locative ? or an immutable
mircea_popescu: "give me the list of all lines with string x" are not requests for urls per se, but requests for computation. "please interpret the indirection layer and compose a list of urls as a solution to that".
mircea_popescu: now, that in practice these APPEAR mixed, is a matter of little theoretical consequence.
mircea_popescu: but in fact my quering for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01 is a double request : "give me all the lines from the log that fit "2017-09-01" mask, ie from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1707983 to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709360 or w/e.
mircea_popescu: that superficially it appears that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01 is a top node for a set of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#xxxxxx is just unfortunate ; in reality the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#xxxxxx are the topnodes and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01 just a particular mask on them.
asciilifeform: tnelson understood this
asciilifeform: called the xxxxx 'tumblers'
asciilifeform: ( why -- i still have nfi )
mircea_popescu: old style ben_vulpes was an attempt to do exactly this i suspect, we nixed it because too long hashes ; but practical considerations have no theoretical power.
asciilifeform: wai which
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 23:01 ben_vulpes: in other wwwtronic toyz: http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate#1d176a0b-2995-4522-b9bd-b14447c6bec7
mircea_popescu: it is more ~convenient~ to have the url in phf style, but this convenience does not change the fact that yes, they ARE ben_vulpes style.
mircea_popescu: much like digital notation of transcendents, be it more convenient, does not un-make their transcendence.
ben_vulpes: as an aside, it is obnoxious that anchors are not passed in the request
asciilifeform: www browser was made by monkeys and is ill-equipped to flip b/w variant views of an object
asciilifeform: ( or to show any relation b/w objects other than how you ~got to it~, which is wholly incidental to the object ! )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: htm anchors suck balls
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform human brai nidem, which is why cartesian/polar switching such a problem.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in exactly same way and for same reason as the rest of www stack
asciilifeform: htm is to actual hypertext as koch is to rsa.
asciilifeform: as ethertardium is to btc, etc
mircea_popescu: poor naggum. if he lived he'd have had something to live for,
mircea_popescu: this is very specifically what they mean by "permanent solution to temporary problem" btw. here we are.
asciilifeform: some mouse bangs against the glass 900 times, others -- 9,000
asciilifeform: no mouse -- infinitely
trinque: isn't any very good reason why phf's style and ben_vulpes's style are both facts expressed in some datastructure, identified by their respective hashes.
trinque: it's a fact there's a log line, and also a fact a phfnode said about it, I saw at time T
asciilifeform: trinque: the other thing, if you are going to put entire weight of the known universe on a hash, gotta specify what happens in case of a collision.
asciilifeform: because it's a when, not an if.
asciilifeform: this is kinda why asciilifeform isn't overly fond of hashing .
asciilifeform: it is a type of fractionalreservebanking.
asciilifeform: worx great until actually pressed to capacity and then suddenly worx not at all.
trinque: can still sign the material pointed to by the hash, if worried.
asciilifeform: that's just another hash.
asciilifeform: point of concern is the indexer -- it has nfi re the signatures or any such detail
asciilifeform: it takes a hash and gives back a warez ( or opposite )
asciilifeform: what is it to do if it has 2+ ?
trinque: there is no "the indexer"
asciilifeform: world -- unravels.
trinque: you asked the indexes of your trusted peers, who asked theirs
asciilifeform: you can't treat hashes as 1:1 with your set.
trinque: and should rank responses accordingly.
trinque: this isn't gnutella flatland
asciilifeform: because 'take this Q, gimme X where H(X)=Q' can resolve to infinitely many X
asciilifeform: trinque: if you worked out a clean answr to this puzzle in your article, i'll enjoy reading
trinque: definitely a point
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> that's just another hash. << no, tmsr-rsa does fulltext signing.
asciilifeform: there ain't no such thing as fulltext signing if fulltext is bigger than your modulus ( and padding also takes space )
mircea_popescu: but there is. blocks.
asciilifeform: and how do you prevent rearrangement ?
asciilifeform: what means count
mircea_popescu: block 1 : blabla. signed. block 2 : hurrdurr. signed.
asciilifeform: if you split into chunks and sign each chunk, enemy can shuffle'em
mircea_popescu: final block : yadda yadda. signed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you sign a more complex construct.
asciilifeform: and enemy takes fullblock, block1, and block2 and rearranges on the wire and naowat.
asciilifeform: what means 'more compact construct'
asciilifeform: if not... a hash.
mircea_popescu: nao you re-arrange by the count.
asciilifeform: let's work example ?
mircea_popescu: let's take as sample text "what means 'more compact construct'".
asciilifeform: aite. your block size is 5.
asciilifeform: what are the blocks ?
mircea_popescu: signed material looks as follows : 0001what 0faadd0002means8391240004 'moraff02930005...ffffuct'ajk40009a435aad
mircea_popescu: and you know 9 blocks were signed, and they are as such :
asciilifeform: enemy takes your 0001what someotherdays00002 moraff02930005 .... etc and yer phucked
asciilifeform: he now has an 'alphabet' of signed chunkolade
mircea_popescu: 0001what someotherdays does not check out against faadd
asciilifeform: why not ?
asciilifeform: he takes chunks from diff occasions.
mircea_popescu: because faad is the signature for "0001what " not for "0001otherwhat"
asciilifeform: there is nothing hard-linking the chunks to your particular transmission.
mircea_popescu: the final bit is, yes.
asciilifeform: what's the final bit ?
mircea_popescu: are you pressing me to say "a hash" ?
asciilifeform: well what else is it called.
asciilifeform: can call bzortl if you want.
asciilifeform: but on my planet -- hash.
mircea_popescu: a... digest :D
mircea_popescu: i see what you mean, but you've no legs to stand on. suppose each successive block is a successive hash.
mircea_popescu: "yes, enemy has alphabet of chunks : he knows how to sign ilif every time it comes after asci and is 2nd in ther chain"
trinque: doesn't that successfuly diminish the likelihood of a usable collision?
mircea_popescu: and it's not even the only technique.
asciilifeform: we already established that a hash collision is asteroid event for blockchain.
mircea_popescu: just spur of the moment.
asciilifeform: ( old thread )
mircea_popescu: and besides, with a settable hash like mpfhf you can use different size hashes all the time.
mircea_popescu: "hurr durr we know how to sign "cocksucker" whenever they use 93 bit outputs. which is... not now."
asciilifeform: there is no place for blank cheques in network protocol.
mircea_popescu: and by no means mpfhf only settable. keccak will work also.
asciilifeform: gotta fixedtimespace.
mircea_popescu: so, message as chain of message blocks, with acordeon, settable hash. yes it is "possible" to get a collision. if your hash is 512bytes long... not soon.
asciilifeform: hash collisions cannot be fixed by 'we use THIS OTHER hash NAO! haha' because now enemy can monkey with the past.
asciilifeform: the past has no 'now'
mircea_popescu: nobody forces us to use the 32/64 byte crap nsit likes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform LONGER hashes.
asciilifeform: yes but you cannot retro-elongate hashes of the past.
mircea_popescu: so who cares.
mircea_popescu: there's no shits given re tmsa-rsa-signature being retrocompatible.
asciilifeform: anyone verifying a freshly synced node?!
mircea_popescu: i don't follow.
asciilifeform: i dun mean 'retrocompatible with usg', i mean -- with self.
mircea_popescu: we're talking of different things in the sense you went off on a tangent.
mircea_popescu: the important point is : acordeon hash function set up to spit 256 byte or 512 byte hashes WILL NOT collide.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 2 ** 256
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 2 ** 256 = 1.157920892373162E77
asciilifeform: i don't see a zero
mircea_popescu: e 77, you understand me.
asciilifeform: that ain't a zero.
mircea_popescu: e 77 is how you say zero on earth.
asciilifeform: and nobody promised you a fair roulette here.
asciilifeform: there is NO theoretical proof of strength for any hash algo
asciilifeform: just as there is not for block cipher.
asciilifeform: they are vooodoo.
mircea_popescu: we'l;l soon enough have a practical one.
asciilifeform: 0 proof of strength.
trinque: penultimate worst case is that folks republish their items in the case of hashpocalypse. and they tell their trusted peers. and it propagates over wot.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, i also have no proof in your sense the slavegirls ain't cheating on me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not say 'let's all quit using hashes', nao
trinque: worst case is the original publisher is dead, and all you've got are whoever cared about him.
asciilifeform: but did say 'fractional reserve'
asciilifeform: which is IS.
trinque: and they republish what they've got. like all history.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the fraction is so small as to be below heisenberg limits. this matters.
asciilifeform: only if it's an ideal roulette
asciilifeform: and not a 'year is 2020 and keccak broke'
mircea_popescu: huge difference between sub-heisenberg fractional and super-heisenberg fractional.
mircea_popescu: gotta find out somehow.
asciilifeform: in other walks of life, when, e.g., building bridge, there is a notion of material strength
asciilifeform: you know roughly how much stress a thing can take, before you put stress on it
asciilifeform: we have no such thing for hash.
asciilifeform: ( and i say this after making 'v', where proposed to put all of human knowledge to sit on hash! lol )
mircea_popescu: for the record, si heisenberg limit is 10^-34
asciilifeform: i'd like to find what trinque had in mind re accounting for collisions. ( but let's encourage him to put it in the article! )
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu it so happens that i have what looks like a solution to 'sign a TB with a 4096bit key with no hash'
asciilifeform: or rather not i have one, but
asciilifeform: luby has one.
asciilifeform: ( now it should be obvious how )
mircea_popescu: no, i was expecting that's what you want ever since pushing me above.
mircea_popescu: and i don't think it's necessarily a bad solution, which is why i said there are others.
asciilifeform: grind luby's soliton distribution, and you get a calculably vanishing probability of failure
asciilifeform: sorta like in miller-rabin.
asciilifeform: for n00bz, i'll review : cut into chunks C1,C2,...,Cn; then sign, S(C1 xor C2), S(C2,C3,C9999), S(C5), etc. with the 'soliton' providing the arity
asciilifeform: ideally you'd have no 1-aries , for reason discussed earlier
mircea_popescu: you can chose an arbitrary large prime and have that arity.
asciilifeform: then verify by unlubying.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's potentially infinitely many ways to lubyate
mircea_popescu: so as i was saying -- we don't have to usg.dumb sign anything.
asciilifeform: that goes withoutsaying lol
mircea_popescu: aite then
asciilifeform: lulzily, the above result contradicts the 'literature'
asciilifeform: where whatshisface 'proved' that public key signatures are impossible w/out hashing.
asciilifeform: ('trapdoors must exist')
mircea_popescu: good thing we didn't read the pdfs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709173 << this is how everything was ever done in the field.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 20:51 asciilifeform: ( the www people simply pissed on the problem, african-style, and didn't even pretend to solve )
mircea_popescu: "what if we pretend problem doesn't exist ?" "well... it'll catch up with you eventually" "But after i vest, right ?" "probably..."
asciilifeform: 'leave town before check bounces' aha
mircea_popescu: quite. though usually in the manner of "i just want my pension"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709181 << quite. and as the femme alf says, "they don't even know it exists".
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 20:57 trinque: www itself is an incaism. death to "it was said on arsebook walled garden; lives and dies at the mercy of arsebook"
mircea_popescu: btw am i the only one HIGHLY entertained by the internets producing a girl alf ?
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 21:29 Barbarossa_: any chance of a price cut for FUCKGOATS w BTC @ ATH?
mircea_popescu: oh, he split.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in black-on-white, http://68.media.tumblr.com/035803b1154f5d585d3a69f6fdf57692/tumblr_nwx6npsjWw1u9uov7o1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709230 << you should see the http://trilema.com/2017/tute/ shuffling, its something else. so, dealer spreads cards on the table and rubs his hands on them in a circular pattern sometimes distrurbign the player's chip stacks.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 21:42 Barbarossa_: well, 6 riffle shuffles are enough for us ;)
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 23:43 mircea_popescu: btw am i the only one HIGHLY entertained by the internets producing a girl alf ?
asciilifeform: oh and hey remember the idiot anglos who pictured 'girl mircea'
mircea_popescu: hey, at least yours has the best rack of the alf-right or how did that go.
mircea_popescu: a, yeah, she was also hawt.
trinque: this is not persuading me of the hazards of hashcollision
mircea_popescu: the DUKES of hazards of hashcollisions, trinque.
trinque: where's that oglaf
shinohai: ^ best oglaf EVAH
mircea_popescu: i still think the best ever is the magic of denial one.
asciilifeform: runner up nominate, 'the restless dead vote', and 'sword fucks your wife at night'
mircea_popescu: yeah, srsly. lots of good ones.
shinohai: !~later tell jurov I wish to donate my s.qntra shares this month to the bitcoin foundation. Please advise how to proceed, thx.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: the girls love the "ne futem sau evadam ?" "fuff. mai fimflu" one. which only exists in romanian.
asciilifeform: why the author is not here, remains a puzzler
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform didn't want to commission back in 2013 or so because i don't recall, something about how doesn't want to lose the spirit or somesuch.
asciilifeform: wasn't even thinking of commission. but abstract 'here'
asciilifeform: as in , speaking .
mircea_popescu: conceivably, same.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709309 << this works well for hookers, blow, beers, pizza, generally consumables.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 22:06 asciilifeform: though i've thought about suggesting to mircea_popescu to offer hand-delivery ( chore would fall to asciilifeform... ) as an option. but i dun like nonflat prices
mircea_popescu: not so much for capital goods.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: proposed strictly as an answer to the provenance thing
asciilifeform: i.e. no dirty usg postman hands
mircea_popescu: not a good answer. courier can get ambushed just as well.
mircea_popescu: what, you're going to arm them too ? with what, submarines ?
asciilifeform: and asciilifeform can be replaced with ninjashogun right here in his chair neh. idea is to reduce the layers to 1.
mircea_popescu: there's no actual reduction ; just an expensive, bug ridden implementation of half of usmail
asciilifeform: but i dun know that anybody wants to pay for what it costs to deliver this way, unless he lives across the street.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i beg to differ, if unit hangs around asciilifeform's neck from door to door, it's a layer reduction and not == to usmail.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709330 << this trusted, anonymous item. sounds like fiat thought process, that strand of fatlogic.\
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 22:15 asciilifeform: 'We submitted extensive information about our random number generator (RNG) to an independent organization. We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG, and its implementation in the shuffling of the cards on our platform.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this impression is borne out of lack of experience and no more. what, i'm going to assembly line phds ?
asciilifeform: almost like 'trusted' were just a cardboard propeller on a straw airplane to these folx
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in point of fact folx can and do sometimes pay for phd to make an appearance at an assembly line.
asciilifeform: depends on the occasion neh.
mircea_popescu: true. but not really a bread and butter thing.
asciilifeform: wasn't proposed as a standard part of fg delivery lol
mircea_popescu: thanks heavens.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform is not made of rubber.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709343 << dooglus 's implementation actually solved that.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 22:18 asciilifeform: this does not actually solve the problem of proving that the output of prng was not known in advance to one or more of the players.
asciilifeform: oh -- how ?
mircea_popescu: the reason i kept trying to get him to be involved with things was exactly that he had good solutions to actual problems. but... never caught on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seed is a combo of site-produced TRNG entropy and player-set (with defaults if playher doesn't feel like setting). you can change your portion at any time.
mircea_popescu: conceptually equivalent to sha(site+player1) etc.
asciilifeform: what does the end-of-play reveal look like ?
mircea_popescu: site publishes site + player, player can verify that published player = what he thought he was and that the sha results match (published)
asciilifeform: does it publish 'and then player 9000 changed his nonce at time 100' etc ?
asciilifeform: that'd make sense.
mircea_popescu: concrete example : you set your seed to "i like chicks with small tits", site sets seed to "71c0891f45d65ff7"
mircea_popescu: then the first hand is played as 0c3dbf77a25ebe9733548266406161111522839d1d41f221070e59c361f6b2b0990df0606d143e90b1bb9ed1a9b39ff5fcf0ac153cc0e90297f1273076fcf38c
asciilifeform: this reduces to shamir's algo dunnit.
asciilifeform: of course you still can't prove that the house was not 'btcmining' the hash
mircea_popescu: and then when the reveal occurs, you sha512(i like chicks with small tits71c0891f45d65ff7) and see.
asciilifeform: and that all the other players' nonces aren't hashwaltzes
mircea_popescu: this was for casino style games.
mircea_popescu: ie, you against the house.
asciilifeform: esp if 'anyone can change his nonce whenever'
asciilifeform: then especially how can you prove absence of waltz
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't work without withening ; or in other words : he intelligently used the otherwise useless whitening step as an assurance provider. was pretty clever move, esp considering the standard for intelligence at the time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you mean by waltz ?
asciilifeform: walk the nonces until the hash output comes out in favour of house
asciilifeform: ( the nonces OTHER than yours )
mircea_popescu: house uses the same hash for all players for the whole day.
asciilifeform: let's say poker
mircea_popescu: that's what it means "house", in this new paradigm.
asciilifeform: how to prove that the other N-1 players, other than yourself, ain't sybils
asciilifeform: who change their nonces specifically when it would benefit the house, and in such a way as to.
mircea_popescu: again, this was for casino games, not poker. he never implemented multiplayer afaik.
asciilifeform: 'house' being them
asciilifeform: for house games would work
mircea_popescu: it's what it was used for.
mircea_popescu: anyway, we had a good solution with poker, but it never got implemented.
mircea_popescu: and ima not talk about it, because fuck it.
asciilifeform: lol i was about to say.
asciilifeform: (why free gift to derps)
asciilifeform: !#s cryptographic poker
a111: 2 results for "cryptographic poker", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cryptographic%20poker
asciilifeform: it ain't a virgin field
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform does not specifically favour any of the published algo
mircea_popescu: anyway, very much a http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ : i was the first investor afaik, his site was going great, thgen the (canadian) government stepped in and burned down the respectable business of an intelligent citizen.
mircea_popescu: then they want to talk about "Gdp growth" and "technology". fuck them in the ass with a pike of stupid, there's no technology in north america, and no gdp growth.
shinohai likes how original satoshi BTC code haz built-in pokar room
asciilifeform: was this in the great pokerholocausting?
mircea_popescu: nah, i don't recall what the site was called, but dice something.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why you're so fixated on poker, this was just early bitcoin business.
asciilifeform: shinohai: aha, iirc some 'i am shitoshi'-flavoured sc4mz0r even tried to make use of the fact to 'prove' his case
mircea_popescu: !#s "justdice"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nitpick was not specific to poker, applies to any 3+party game
asciilifeform: where did these go.
shinohai: It was the most recent hoaxtoshi, tried releasing code that is publicly available if one digs hard enough
asciilifeform: somehow never hear about'em no moar
shinohai: I mean *I* have a copy on my site
asciilifeform: shinohai: it was in 0.1
shinohai: I MUST BE SATOSHI
mircea_popescu: and in other "here's a trilema article to translate lol", http://trilema.com/2010/am-o-idee/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709672 << to briefly revisit this lul -- reaction was to d00d who walked in and 'i'd even pay 20x moar for fg!' but he dun particularly want 20 fg. so suppose to give him for what to 20x moar.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 00:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this impression is borne out of lack of experience and no more. what, i'm going to assembly line phds ?
asciilifeform: *for what to pay
mircea_popescu: ah. you know you souind a little like a hooker ? "customer wanted to pay more for drinks so i figured what the hell, ima go home with him. am i fired ?"
mircea_popescu: "no, just come to work on heels and nothing else tomorrow"
asciilifeform: moar of a 'for 10,000 i'll drill own hole'(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: same thing!!!
asciilifeform: it is innit.
asciilifeform: anyway almost whole point of how fg is made is so as this is not esp. appealing.
asciilifeform: dun have to be carried in arse or under guard etc
asciilifeform: fiatola derps fixate on chains of custody because they can't verify jackshit
asciilifeform: 'is this gold bar or tungstenlulz' 'we can lose the tail end of it + potentiallywholething to find out, ohjoy!'
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2017/the-goodbye-girl/#comment-122849 << literatureprizewinner!?1
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what that is.
mircea_popescu: weirdos abound.
mod6: haha, that was all over the place.
mircea_popescu: meaningful fiction is hard.
hanbot: Stanislav Datsokgivsky << straight outta that "Cheap Detective" Neil Simon parody where everyone east of the mississip is AdjectiveNounVerbski
mircea_popescu: oh is that the one where they mash casablanca, to have and have not, the maltese falcon etc together, leslie nelson style ?
hanbot: that's the one
mircea_popescu: pity they had that schmuck in it, what's his name.
mircea_popescu: the short dood with bad diction, was in a buncha tv detective shows
hanbot: iono, phtephen mcstature
mircea_popescu: peter falk
ag3nt_zer0: Hello TMSR... trying to implement trb here. What is the proper way to "save the PGP public keys" before placing them in .wot? Do I simply copy the entirety of the text (including -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----) revealed at the link provided by deedbot, place that into a text editor, and then save as .asc?
mod6: name the files like, 'mod6.asc', 'asciilifeform.asc', etc.
mod6: you want to paste everything through '-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----'
ag3nt_zer0: ok tyvm :)
mod6: np, gl!