ben_vulpes: pff i go to take my girl for gelato and romp my child with his grandparents and y'all create epic logs
ben_vulpes: "2 and 3" means 2nd and third, "for this much suffering we should fucking get twins"
ben_vulpes: i'll probably put up a page on cuntstarter or something
BingoBoingo: Or you know... invest in cuntstaller or something
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 04:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: package arrived, ty
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: actually now that you mention it, i hopped on a scale for lulz recently and realized that i should really stop calibrating my intake against hers
ben_vulpes: lady is quite clearly engaged in a serious fabrication project
ben_vulpes: package was robust enough to survive this operation!
ben_vulpes: girl wanted to show me things, but was reading circuit diagrams, "woman, i am reading schematics for a communist killing machine. whatever you have can wait"
ben_vulpes: you can tell it's artisinal asymmetric warfare gear by the vintage yellow dots on the manual
ben_vulpes: a headline that won't make the cut this evening: "<something> Javascript: It can work"
ben_vulpes: i tell you, listening to the young feller who shares the toxic trainstation orifice with me prattle on about the majesty of es6 takes what wind is left in the sails of trying to fix a young man's mind clean to /dev/null
ben_vulpes: even he almost gets it, "oh yeah, they just poured the whole sugar bag of syntax in. javascript has python, c#, you name it."
ben_vulpes: "oh dear, i really need some help here. this javascript app is so completely asynchronous that i can't hold it all in my head at the same time." "didja design it to fit in your head?" "no, i didn't really have time for that." "didja...write tests for it?" "no, definitely didn't have time for that" "well, it looks like you're going to have to find the time to painfully debug it by hand without any of the
ben_vulpes: tooling i told you to write three months ago."
ben_vulpes: ("imagine, if they only paid software coolies for software that works" [tm] [r] [asciilifeform])
mircea_popescu braces for pravda becoming simple retelling of logs in monotone, braindead voice.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:04 ben_vulpes: you can tell it's artisinal asymmetric warfare gear by the vintage yellow dots on the manual
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> BingoBoingo: actually now that you mention it, i hopped on a scale for lulz recently and realized that i should really stop calibrating my intake against hers << Smoking cessation invokes a similar realization when the implication of one's resting heartrate falling to a human value from a near avian value on basal metabolism hits
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I doubt it's a folding to Republican ideology so much as "Remember how popular Black Lives Matter was electorally..."
mircea_popescu: i measure the whore's performance not her internal states.
BingoBoingo: Even from a performative angle, gotta assume WAPO pilotage is a least USG.NAVY.BoatDriving level anti-skilled
BingoBoingo: Which means it may show aggression beyond its station and try bullying bigger commercial vessels out of their lanes to its loss and actual people's inconvenience.
BingoBoingo: Sure, not worth forcasting that in detail, but it is useful to have an idea where floods first.
BingoBoingo: I'm very uncertain. It's easy to know pantsuit eats their own. I lack a refined oracle atm for which demographic pantsuit eats next.
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL: ah, thanks for the voice
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the WHOLE POINT is to get future science to hyperlink old articles.
PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
shinohai: Keeps popping up in my research but I'm leery of unknown brands.
shinohai: Cool asciilifeform ..... might be worth a shot anyway
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4703.98, vol: 7723.99980004 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4688.0, vol: 15772.92932907 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4703.51, vol: 3447.11091498 | Volume-weighted last average: 4694.56524437
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:15 ben_vulpes: "oh dear, i really need some help here. this javascript app is so completely asynchronous that i can't hold it all in my head at the same time." "didja design it to fit in your head?" "no, i didn't really have time for that." "didja...write tests for it?" "no, definitely didn't have time for that" "well, it looks like you're going to have to find the time to painfully debug it by hand without any of the
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 05:16 ben_vulpes: ("imagine, if they only paid software coolies for software that works" [tm] [r] [asciilifeform])
deedbot: sageprobes voiced for 30 minutes.
sageprobes: was expecting a forum tbh, I don't actually have a sage probe I would need help with but was curious about battle stories
sageprobes: I found the original cracking article plenty interesting :P
sageprobes: Been intermittently following Loper for ages, I'm an Urbit employee ^-^
sageprobes: below market because like ~Haskell tax~ but pays the rent
deedbot: fyr voiced for 30 minutes.
fyr: hmm guess I've been on here before
fyr: Haskell tax is the phenomenon that working in Java or Javascirpt or w/e pays more
fyr: At least as a junior idk
shinohai: I thought working in Java was like a circle of hell or a prison sentence.
fyr: yup, and adequately compensated by googamzbooksoft!
fyr: > ascii armored public key
fyr: see this is why I want urbit to exist uvu
fyr: I can paste in an ssh pubkey I guess?
fyr: Yeah I'm trying to figure out if this is doable without having a trilema-specific key I'd inevitably lose
trinque: there's no urbit-turd you'd also have to keep holding onto?
trinque: surely this is not insurmountable
shinohai: Thank you, hurr-duurbit, come again!
shinohai: (Preferably when you realize what a true digital Republic is)
trinque: lotta calitards slithering in lately. must be climate change.
shinohai imagines trinque on an island of fire ants directing the weather from tx
shinohai: Floating fire ants, to be more specific
deedbot: fyr voiced for 30 minutes.
fyr: My "urbit-turd" is ultimately on a test-net, and doesn't have live keys
fyr: and if it did and the shitty VPS it's on went down, I'd make doe eyes at Management and they'd unilaterally push my new key into the kernel of everyone on the network
fyr: because lolwut is decentralization
fyr: Afaict the whole point of the nickserv pgp thing is I can't come in a month later all "my laptop finally died of blunt impact trauma, accept new unsigned pubkey pl0x"
fyr: which would be terribly self-defeating if said laptop death did occur
shinohai: omg it is a so-called `cryptocurrency` ?
fyr: Anyway I know I'm on the larp server for "not getting pwned by unspecified pgp-fearing non-Mossad is hard, reliable backups and Linux audio is easy"
fyr: just *grump* at the implication that gpg is usable enough by a non-initiate to get a brainwallet or w/e out of it in 5 minutes
fyr knows he should "just" git gud at crypto
fyr: I guess I could just generate an entropic keypair and dump the private half in Dropbox, but in that case staying unregistered seems more uh honest :3
fyr: (Especially if I keep using this thru webchat on an ~underpatched iPad~)
shinohai: "and dump the private half in Dropbox" <<< please don't fucking do this
fyr: It's not, even the desired end state is semi-centralized with 256 root nodes
fyr: I am very much not going to do that yes
fyr: I have a fresh Librem lying around I can probably use that
fyr: But that doesn't actually solve the "2 years later I drop it in the bath" problem
fyr: Which requires more proactive multisig running-around
fyr: Okay yes I could just triplicate the primary key on various SD cards and hope nobody finds any of them
fyr: Still involves securing physical possessions as suddenly my job and not evil megacorps'
fyr: Anyway I'm sure I can be talked into it eventually, but I don't have it set up /already/ and am not going to go on a multihour Fetchquest to that effect rn
fyr: "Without help" is a bit harsh, and implies I shouldn't read the ~practical guide~ just linked, but if I have srs keys nobody gets to touch them ya
fyr: Like I'm not saying it is ~an utterly impossible insurmountable burden~ I'm saying I don't have any threat models for which it makes sense
shinohai: Imagine key as physical object, like diamond. You would leave it sitting on kitchen table behind locked doors whilst you work?
fyr: to take on the liability of "don't lose this file or you'll get much more reputational harm than just not registering in the first place"
fyr: No I'd leave it locked up in a bank that all the normies trust B)
fyr: I have like less than one lying around on coinbase for use in buying alpaca socks, not like in any serious capacity
fyr: I have any idea it just seems like a lot of work :P
shinohai: asciilifeform: I was trying to be magnanimous and assume he had basic knowledge
fyr: Have read article, if I was doing this for srs that would be a backup for sharded offsite multisig
fyr: I have a decent grasp of the relevant /primitives/ and am confident in my ability to actually apply them after a couple days of reading manpages
fyr: How many times has any ~ghost~ on this channel actually been impersonated? I guess like if every conversation starts with "get a key already" ghosts just don't exist for long
fyr: And like I get that unforgeable reputation is useful if you want to have a textual agreement to buy some MPEx security for bitcoin, or w.e.
shinohai: "if I was doing this for srs" <<< no reason to do it otherwise besides practicd in ones own home
fyr: But I don't have any bright plans for making such arrangements, and will consider keyfulness premature optimization until then
fyr is listening about how he should put the porch rhinestone inside a $200 safe
fyr: which will take 2 dudes with jackhammers a day to install, disrupting any attempts to get work done during that day
fyr: hi mircea tell me how I should stop being an untrusted ghostfag <3
fyr: actually nvm don't I gtg
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 12:34 PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 12:34 PeterL: this is something I needed for work, and tada, web search came up with nice open access article, I was amazed
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 15:13 asciilifeform: it's shitflare, eh, serves up whatever it feels like depending on from where
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:17 sageprobes: Been intermittently following Loper for ages, I'm an Urbit employee ^-^
mircea_popescu: at which point i feel compelled to quote
http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-185.0-185.1138 : "So we understand each other : John is some poor and kinda stupid kid from some ghetto in some indistinct townlet. One day, Mircea the Bad comes there on whatever business, sits down in the bar with his two bitches curled up at his feet and drinks a rum or something. The girls from the ghetto, for love of their coun
mircea_popescu: try (in our example, that sad ghet to) pick John up forcibly, sit him down at the table next to mine and curl at his feet, just like the other two. They're definitely not slavegirls, they have neither the training nor the skills nor in the end the needs or structure of that relationship, and no marble columns, no gardens where water sprinkles among the cypress nor artesian fountains springing forth marzipan await them at hom
mircea_popescu: e, but instead the nude concrete walls, the [low class mass produced kitsch wallhanging stuff], the bedbug infested pressed shitboard nightstand. But indifferent to all these points, they play a role to support a theory : the theory that here too, in the assghetto of shit "we got fine stuff", and a John wh o, even if only four letters long, is still quite as great as any Mircea come from afar."
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:24 fyr: see this is why I want urbit to exist uvu
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707415 << lol this guy. the "trilema-specific" item is the only non-specific one. "oh, i can't get on the web from my walled garden dumbphone without a "web specific" arrangement". yes, it's called a key. the freedom-specific item people in cells need is called a key.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:33 fyr: Yeah I'm trying to figure out if this is doable without having a trilema-specific key I'd inevitably lose
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 16:43 trinque: lotta calitards slithering in lately. must be climate change.
trinque: if there are a few salvageable folks out there, hooray.
trinque met ben_vulpes in Portland after all
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:32 fyr: and if it did and the shitty VPS it's on went down, I'd make doe eyes at Management and they'd unilaterally push my new key into the kernel of everyone on the network
mircea_popescu: trinque there's at all times large swathes of salvageable cattle. they -- never in short supply. who can be arsed to wield the whip in such copious quantities as they may require, now that's a challenge.
mircea_popescu: fwis the forum's patience already wearing thin at the edges.
mircea_popescu: (this is a significant problem. consider a model : there's what, ten-twenty millions of bernsteins, kanzure , fyr and what have you on one hand ; and only a hundred or so of us. even if we were to work a full 200 hour's week, if on average one needs 1k man-hours of constant whipping to redress into humanity, we encounter the following birthday paradox : either the whipping is undirected, in which case every tard gets 15 minut
mircea_popescu: es and nothing happens ; or else the whipping is directed, in which case we pick the 3-sigma cases and get 0.03% of 10mn ie 3k people who could be fixed in a few days each.
mircea_popescu: now the problem with this is that the stupid beast ~quite deliberately~ (even if uncomprehended by the elements, subhuman as they are, composing that beast) presents them partially. so as to avoid you know, actual results, much like an octopus would touch a stove.)
trinque: g_l for example can absorb an astonishing amount of whipping with nary a budge. I don't even mean that as an insult.
trinque: I've got e-mail threads with him where I try to spoonfeed him a mcclim support gig, nada
mircea_popescu: trinque i have no clear view of what he's doing, so i can't measure, so i wouldn't even call it that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the in-character which is to say fictitious name for "the stupid beast presents them partially to avoid phase transitions" is that much-celebrated (in stupidistan) "freedom of choice", ie the batshit insane notion that the unknowing may be involved in decisions as of what to do with themselves.
mircea_popescu: heck, why not, if there can exist (as in principle can) individuals who need any arbitrary amount of whipping, there's no reason to elide the extreme case. maybe somewhere somehow there exists this jeddi that actually needs 0, is a natural.
mircea_popescu: can't say i've encountered that many ; and can say that from actual lived experience, the "thinks he's jeddi" heuristic is a fine indicator for "head so far up ass the net result of sufficient whipping will be soap", ie
http://trilema.com/2015/the-anal-child/
mircea_popescu: i've had no idea just how frequent 4foot-something females are, pre latinoamerica.
mircea_popescu: anyway. but the discussion does make it plain and obvious why "nonviolence", ie attemptingto limit whippings, is such an automatic companion to "freedom of meaningless choice" as to establish what to the cattle means "human rights".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what can i tell you, 152 centimeters are a lot of centimeters for this part of the world.
phf: jack daniel or whatever his name (ECL guy, who's working on CLIM) made actual progress on the codebase (though some percent of it is wracker work) despite and since being condemned by g_l. i'm not quite sure what g_l did meanwhile..
mircea_popescu: phf was this some guy briefly here ? or different people ?
phf: different people and i think i'm confusing names
mircea_popescu: (also, for the completeness of lulz : the stupidistani name for ~meaningful~ choice is "nobrainer", aiming to imply that the only proper use of the cattle brain is the contemplation of meaningless choices.)
mircea_popescu: it's so OBVIOUS, you see, and so EVIDENT, you realise, that one needn't even use his brain for it, whenever the choice is actually meaningful.
phf: hmm, my ircII doesn't unicode at all
phf: supposed to be an n with accent aigu, he's i think a polak
a111: Logged on 2016-08-23 01:55 phf: "<jackdaniel> [04:47:11] keep in mind my CLIM fu is very weak though :)" yet the guy is collecting money for paid CLIM internals development
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you picture NOT "'d00d fixed my car, some percent, but crowbared the windows" ? when exactly was this the case, i've yet to encounter it.
phf: it's exactly that! replaced a deflated wheel, while also putting a chair on the roof
mircea_popescu: "painted the wall killed the orchid ; unclogged the toilet dented the faiance ; cooked a meal dirtied the pots..."
mircea_popescu: hey, at least they saved the village before destroying it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, iirc disagreement with gl was re ethertardation.
phf: asciilifeform: i very much remember many threads
mircea_popescu: gl condemnation of jd was related to ethereum not technical dispute.
mircea_popescu: Our current financial status is $1,429 for bounties and $267 recurring monthly contributions from the supporters (thanks!).
phf: yeah, i don't remember the details. i think g_l just wanted to be the top dog on the project, and, to quote trinque, swing a dick that he didn't have by running the whole thing in faux tmsr way (lots of calling everyone cunt), which got him marginalized, and eventually completely sidelined
mircea_popescu: hey phf you have any idea how they calculate the bounties ?
mircea_popescu: maybe he's scottish, cunt just means man in their lowlands gaelic.
phf: i don't think he literally used the word cunt. i've spent some years with the irish, when i'm in moscows i start reverting (i'm not quite sure what the connection is in my brain)
mircea_popescu: phf and other than "how do they calculate the bounties", are you supporting this ?
mircea_popescu: ok, but the problem of interest is how to compute something to end up with the magic number 150. or a replacement.
mircea_popescu: (there's a lot of work went into this in eulora, i dunno if you've seen the various pricing threads. it's to my eyes a very interesting problem)
phf: i ~believe~ that bounties are pulled out of ass by the mcclim stakeholders like beach. "this is tricky and i want it a lot, $500!"
mircea_popescu: fwiw this has been open problem in it management since about 1970.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: I have not seen jackdaniel.
a111: I haven't seen jackdaniel
phf: now, or sometime before?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform caribbean blue is no joke btw ; retards from argentina keep whining about their blue sky, but i just saw one today and there's no comparison.
mircea_popescu: im sure if ian smith's wife was hot as opposed to one of the anglo-dutch looking bags they'd have said the same.
mircea_popescu: can pretty much exactly follow "civilised" inferiority complex by what they whine re "corruption" in orcs.
mircea_popescu: cuz everyhone knows a girl really wants to be just like that dumbass "congressional aide" what was her name, mary tired or what.
mircea_popescu: they don't even have to be total country bumpkins, even a non-yokel would really love to live in washington!
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707563 << nickserv and "pgp thing" entirely different items. simple scheme to avoid this problem is, sign your future keyset now, keep it as a single copy in a usb thumb buried in your wall. then when laptop dies pick the new one.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:14 phf: jack daniel or whatever his name (ECL guy, who's working on CLIM) made actual progress on the codebase (though some percent of it is wracker work) despite and since being condemned by g_l. i'm not quite sure what g_l did meanwhile..
phf: (i kind of missed the question, but also didn't understand it, so will clarify, that i'm not supporting recent mcclim development, financially or otherwise)
deedbot: jackdaniel voiced for 30 minutes.
jackdaniel: yay, so much fame :-) but I'm only accepting PR's after some testing, nothing to praise for
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:32 fyr: Afaict the whole point of the nickserv pgp thing is I can't come in a month later all "my laptop finally died of blunt impact trauma, accept new unsigned pubkey pl0x"
mircea_popescu: jackdaniel dja know any of the fellows ? asciilifeform ? phf ?
jackdaniel: I know phf nick, can't remember where from
mircea_popescu: jackdaniel so a major item of curiosity for me is how do you calculate the bounty values ?
jackdaniel: I work a bit with code. I asses how hard it will be to fix it, how beneficial fixing it will be and how much resources we have
jackdaniel: then I consult with guys on #clim if my assesments are okaish
mircea_popescu: would having more money at your disposal put an inflationary pressure on bounty levels ? ie, for "same work" (admitting for a moment there's such a thing as work-needed scalar) more money ? conversely, encountering headwinds/making little progress over time/decelerating would deflate bounties ?
jackdaniel: it's hard to read what you write. could you rephrase?
mircea_popescu: let's try. so at the moment you have $1,429 for bounties ; let's say the average bounty pays 10 dollars per quanta of "computer work", however defined.
mircea_popescu: had you $1,429,500 for bounties, would the per-quanta payment increase ? maybe to 11 ? 20 ? 100 ?
jackdaniel: sorry, I'm quite busy now. I've read the log – yes, bounties are arbitrary, or as someone nicely put it "pulled out of ass" by me
jackdaniel: regarding gl, he behaved socially unacceptable on the channel and tracker what was a burden because it introduced many childish plays
jackdaniel: which discouraged users from using mcclim
jackdaniel: no, I'm not that interested in cryptocurriencies to think about them much
jackdaniel: either way, thanks for inviting me so I could confirm/clarifiy some assesments about me. Have a nice evening o/
phf: i don't think he appreciated my communication style.
mircea_popescu: phf basically what i take his notion to be re the problem is you know, "i'll just mp it", which may seem like a workable idea until one stops to notice that the original mp never actually attempted to guess prices.
phf: i don't think he can even grok the shape of the criticism
mircea_popescu: possibly not. language perhaps a factor. but i dun speak polish sadly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this makes 3 out of 3 not supporting this, and amusingly enough in each case for merits.
phf: i'm not understanding the second half of that sentence
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't support it because he doesn't like the outer case limits of the design, esp re speed. i am not supporting it because i do not have any faith whatsoever in its financial soundness. you aren't supporting it because hm.
mircea_popescu: (if you're interested by the literalism, "for merit" is one of two ways in which a case can be adjudicated. the other one is on form, such as through lack of standing, lack of jurisdiction, etcetera.)
phf: aah, now i get the whole thing
mircea_popescu: well, i had space for five words, what do you want from me.
mircea_popescu: (but yes, the reason i even looked irrespective of that being on the table was the involved complexity and the expectation you're not actually speaking from atop it)
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:40 fyr: Like I'm not saying it is ~an utterly impossible insurmountable burden~ I'm saying I don't have any threat models for which it makes sense
mircea_popescu: twelve year old boy gets a bike because otherwise the cool kids won't let him hang with them ; and if they do not his whole fucking life is forfeit, as a factual matter.
phf: i'm not sure if mcclim can be "made better" by own hands, but i'm not interested in the direction the bounty team is taking it. i agree with ascii, but i think it could be attempted to reduce it to absolute minimum of moving parts, to establish if the design is fundamentally limited or not.
mircea_popescu: he'll end up counting colored beads in boise, idaho and wondering why jc is following anyone to the toilet for the asking.
trinque: phf: I had a recent thread with the beach character in which "yeah, nobody knows what gadgets are for, can probably go" and so on.
mircea_popescu: what's the loc count on this thing btw ? anyone has it ? submn ? supermn ?
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707469 << afaik this isn't supported by either theory or practice. the harm is exactly same. besides, what'd the negative harm attach to ? the lost identity can't confirm the losing by definition, and a different identity can't attach anything to the original also by definition. so...
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:41 fyr: to take on the liability of "don't lose this file or you'll get much more reputational harm than just not registering in the first place"
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:43 fyr: I have like less than one lying around on coinbase for use in buying alpaca socks, not like in any serious capacity
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 17:47 fyr: How many times has any ~ghost~ on this channel actually been impersonated? I guess like if every conversation starts with "get a key already" ghosts just don't exist for long
mircea_popescu: that's also by definition. we actually don't attach identity to ghosts, liberally confuse them with each other, treat them as "a different" ghost whatever.
mircea_popescu: your notion that you can be a person outside of the wot is you know, exactly like cumdumpster bimbo's notion anyone notices, cares, or recalls.
phf: it's actually pretty small. 150k or so if you don't count the dependencies. i believe that the mcclim team has pulled a bunch of builtin compatability layers and replaced them with portable "community" versions i.e. closer-mop instead of builtin mop facility (metaobject protocol for dealing with CLOS classes), etc.
mircea_popescu: that's not even terribru. imo within "with-own-hands" territory, especially if there's readily ablatable low hanging fruit.
mircea_popescu: but then again, my "imo" is the producer's "imo", "imo you should be able to take that 9 incher up your ass, i've seen plenty of girls do it before." "that exact one ?" "well no" "up this exact ass ?" "well, you're new." "SO THEN!" "face down ass up already, time's money."
phf: (but then so is franz's clim2, 150k or so, which i spent significant time with, trying to make heads or tales of its hairy object manipulation code, and that "9 incher" bit is apropos)
mircea_popescu thinks he's had entirely too much fun this morning ; will bbl.
phf: i claim that my already abysmal spelling has degraded because i'm in slavland
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:56 jackdaniel: which discouraged users from using mcclim
gabriel_laddel_p: It seems rather strange to me that you’re assigning bounties to “bugs” when it is clear that in many cases you have read neither the spec, nor the code, nor have the slightest idea what is even WRONG in the proposed bug.
gabriel_laddel_p: Separately I also defunded you to an extent, for the simple reason that you have no vision, nor communication ability, nor coding ability, period.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: CLIM & ether have nothing to do with one another. you are remembering that I A) completed a bounty and then B) was not paid
gabriel_laddel_p: turns out it takes usg/fiat _three months_ to process fucking 200 usd. was eventually paid. never mentioned it bc wtf, 200 use?
gabriel_laddel_p: anyways, there is a lot more to address in the above log, but I did get the largest McCLIM backers to date to stop funding the effort. One of them bought a masamune.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:01 gabriel_laddel_p: turns out it takes usg/fiat _three months_ to process fucking 200 usd. was eventually paid. never mentioned it bc wtf, 200 use?
gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally, my CLIM implementation is 99,676 lines of lisp code, as calculated by sloccount just now
gabriel_laddel_p: incomplete, yes, but there are some fundamental things in CLIM that need to be fixed, such as the notion of a parallel type heigharchy for presentations.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: imho can be cut down to an easy 30k loc that will be faster, conceptually "closed"
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: first I had to nail down masamune replication. which I actually managed to do
gabriel_laddel_p: (single function call generates a USB that boots into a CLIM environment, no version changes, ever)
trinque: duplicating the contents of a block device is trivial.
trinque: I used to work on a thing that'd multicast images out. say 500 servers pxeboot, slurp image, reboot, post-deploy script runs, and your DC is up
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: it isn't "duplicating the contents of a block device", but rather having that USB able to build itself onto another machine that can in turn generate replication USBs that is the problem
gabriel_laddel_p: maybe I overcomplicated things,but wrote in terms of CPIO format then fed into linux kernel from syslinux.
trinque: at any rate, neat, but the hyperbole is not doing you any favors.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: if all this is so easy, where is the frozen tsmr gentoo that can do what I described above?
gabriel_laddel_p: I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think we're talking past one another here & have been for some time.
trinque: yeah, you get defensive too quickly.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: apologies. I think this is mostly just that the path forwards is clear to me, and that e.g., you people see a masamune video & ask zero questions I'm mostly left wondering why you even bother pretending you want a lispm
trinque: anyhow infectious gentoo is sitting on my hd, asciilifeform, whoever else bothered. saying so isn't diminishing you having done it as well.
gabriel_laddel_p: I rather have the same reaction to the old symbolics people in the area who have now seen masamune after sinking you know, a decade of their lives or so into lispm & then don't buy
gabriel_laddel_p: but you know, invite me to stuff & call me "the lisp machine kid" + insist on my showing it off to their idiot friends
trinque: didn't I propose you change tactics a while back?
gabriel_laddel_p: shinohai: in particular. ascii gets a pass for writing loper_os
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: right there, you presume to tell asciilifeform whether he "gets a pass"
trinque: yes, dumb fucking kid, still. and a drug-addled wreck to boot.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: let's put it this way irrespective of anything any of you say, I say the future is going to look like this:
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:16 gabriel_laddel_p: I rather have the same reaction to the old symbolics people in the area who have now seen masamune after sinking you know, a decade of their lives or so into lispm & then don't buy
trinque: you do not have a declarative relationship with the future
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: first concrete step towards sane computing is a tsmr gentoo that is A) self contained B) infectious / replicates as described above C) uses CLIM for all graphics.
gabriel_laddel_p: all existing CLIM implementations have problems. it is an annoying, irritating, but utterly straightforwards process to fix any of the extant CLIM implementations
gabriel_laddel_p: this means that all of the Unix tooling can essentially be dumped in favor of lisp + CLIM.
gabriel_laddel_p: this is essentially what masamune is, admittedly in a ragged & impoverished form, right now, today.
trinque: and how does having a lisp userland atop a massive C kernel help?
trinque: understand that the kernel defines the ways in which userland shall interact with it, and thus shapes userland?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: because lisp/s-expressions/incremental compilation means that you don't have to make decisions about everything right away.
gabriel_laddel_p: an entire, sane lispm-like (which yes, ascii disagrees with) unix can be had, and then this can meet the hardware implementation "in the middle"
gabriel_laddel_p: specifically, when I say "meet in the middle", a fixed CLIM will run just fine on new tsmr hardware reverse engineered fpga lispm with a minimum amount of fuss
gabriel_laddel_p: it is unclear at this point what the hardware, real lispm implementation is going to look like & I have months of logs to catch up before I begin to even comment on this
gabriel_laddel_p: there are however, a number of issues, such as a how to get rid of floats & what to replace them with that can be safely engineered on the unix-not-even-lispm
gabriel_laddel_p: for example, are you familiar with the book "the end of error"?
gabriel_laddel_p: now, I am 100% with ascii that floats have to die. no question. I, however, am severely undereducated & don't know what to replace them with.
trinque: how do you bridge the gap between your hyperbolic statements about the future of computing and what you just said?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: I'm telling you it is going to play out like that, and not in another way.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: anywyays, this seems obvious to me. MP has been asking for a tsmr linux for years. if you all have had it floating around FUCKING RELEASE.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: do you need me to find log references for when he has asked this, or do you remember offhand?
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: or do you disagree with his judgement that such a thing is necessary?
trinque: danielpbarron is offering a gentoo lappy iirc.
trinque: asciilifeform: I've lost interest in this thread, all yours.
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: you're moving targets though. if you're building a tmsr linux nobody's going to fault you, but if you're going to approach a bunch of lisp heads with a half assed sbcl environment on a unix machine and tell them it's a "lisp machine", expect nothing but contempt
gabriel_laddel_p: we are going to be getting dinner at some point is my understanding to work out details.
gabriel_laddel_p: incidentally, I remembered exactly where the demo to google earth guy went off the rails after logging off last night.
gabriel_laddel_p: he saw, with his own eyes the line count for CLIM, and had worked with the browser for several years. we looked at the loc count for chrome & compared.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p from their own lists it says it wasn't claimed or something.
gabriel_laddel_p: he thought 100k loc in one language vs. ~30 million in 20 languages wasn't a big deal.
gabriel_laddel_p: at which point I was sort of curious what the fuck he did all day at google anyways
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: it was a form of speech, but it didn't go anywhere with you. i'm saying it's not a lisp machine, because i have a lisp machine on an fpga right here, ron garret saw a demo and thinks it's a lisp machine. he's sold, i'm not, so it stands.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 19:56 jackdaniel: regarding gl, he behaved socially unacceptable on the channel and tracker what was a burden because it introduced many childish plays
mircea_popescu: while im not proposing to ~necessarily~ encourage misbehaviours in soldiers, a poorly disciplined troop is the responsibility of the commanding officer and no one else. so no, i dun think much of the quality of authority over there in this context.
gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, my "unacceptable behavior" was stating outright that windows has no place near the codebase. nor osx.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p you probably made that point by telling some tanja lange she's fat, in what's becoming signature style.
mircea_popescu: (do i have the right deGRasse account fossVERIFIED btw ? fat blondy ? or am i confusing ghosts.)
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: -1 by 3 connections.
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel_p -1 at 2017/01/30 17:00:14 << turns out the appeal was mostly to bang the head.
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:10 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: it isn't "duplicating the contents of a block device", but rather having that USB able to build itself onto another machine that can in turn generate replication USBs that is the problem
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707760 << this is precisely why it doesn't exist : cuz people dun think it's a big deal per se, and so can't be bothered to do that before they actually build a disk device full of something they'd actually want replicated. which cuntoo isn't at yet. maybe just on the cusp, i guess.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:12 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: if all this is so easy, where is the frozen tsmr gentoo that can do what I described above?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:15 gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: apologies. I think this is mostly just that the path forwards is clear to me, and that e.g., you people see a masamune video & ask zero questions I'm mostly left wondering why you even bother pretending you want a lispm
shinohai: The thing with cuntoo is, it *does* exist in the sense that more folx use it as it exists now than they do other non-OS's
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707865 << i've actually watched the whole video, and commented on it in logs. i'd like to point out that ~before~ watching the video i was making plans to fly to SF in short time to buy a masamune machine
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:59 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707765 << i'd be surprised if 1 in 10 people here watch any given video. prolly goes to 1 in 2 or 3 re pics, and is 1 in 1.x or even 1.0x re text. so bear that in mind.
trinque: I meanwhile offered a couple hundred bucks to just get a current build of the software, because I had no interest in the ONE TRUE lenovo turd or w/e he'd selected.
trinque: guy doesn't want money, or to eat.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:58 phf: gabriel_laddel: well this is my avocation, so hacking on hemlock and installing masamune in sfo is cost equivalent. i'd make a trip just as a mini vacation, i'll see when's the closest i can swing it
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 03:11 phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632161 << i just didn't think the video was good. i also can install all the individual packages that are involved, but i wanted to see if and how the symbiosis makes you more productive
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 03:11 phf: but there was none of that, because there wasn't actually anything being done. i think it would be a lot more impressive if you setup a non trivial task and showed how masamune makes that task easier to perform
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:43 phf: gabriel_laddel_p: it was a form of speech, but it didn't go anywhere with you. i'm saying it's not a lisp machine, because i have a lisp machine on an fpga right here, ron garret saw a demo and thinks it's a lisp machine. he's sold, i'm not, so it stands.
phf: the sentece was corny, i meant that "i didn't buy masamune (because ..) but ron garret did"
deedbot: asciilifeform rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 at 2016/12/01 18:37:11 << possibly == gabriel_laddel
shinohai: !rate asciilifeform 4 dindu `nuffin
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:59 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707765 << i'd be surprised if 1 in 10 people here watch any given video. prolly goes to 1 in 2 or 3 re pics, and is 1 in 1.x or even 1.0x re text. so bear that in mind.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:07 trinque: I meanwhile offered a couple hundred bucks to just get a current build of the software, because I had no interest in the ONE TRUE lenovo turd or w/e he'd selected.
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:41:37: <rinzler> hi, i'm having a bit of a problem completing the installation process on ubuntu 14.04. For some reason I'm getting error that suggest the CRYSTAL environment variable is not set, when it is.
trinque may use standard hardware when it means "all carved from diamond by the gods" and not "all haz teh same aids"
mircea_popescu: media buying. apple survived by being a judicious media buying company.
mircea_popescu: afaik the only known case of "positive roi from this activity over any kind of interval". otherwise sorta "pick pennies in front of steamroller" activity, countless trillions were wasted to date in the attempt.
trinque: asciilifeform: didn't I say as much?
trinque: wasn't it lenovo that shipped some backdoor, publically shamed
trinque: sure, we don't disagree at all.
trinque: nor to publish a list and say "ohai NSA, here's the list of hardware we all chose from your catalog" eh?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:37 mircea_popescu: media buying. apple survived by being a judicious media buying company.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 22:26 asciilifeform: phf: at some point ( and by this i mean when finished ffa / released 'p' ... ) i'ma have a large board made, with, say, 8 ice40-8k's, and row of dimm-holders...
trinque has a keybinding to unbind :p
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-08-31 03:41:37: <rinzler> hi, i'm having a bit of a problem completing the installation process on ubuntu 14.04. For some reason I'm getting error that suggest the CRYSTAL environment variable is not set, when it is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform macintosh was showing the same steve jobs signature "actual positive roi media buying".
mircea_popescu: people keep thinking woz was "the man behind". the sort of people who like to think that and therefore do are also the sort of people who never get anywhere "for no fault of their own".
mircea_popescu: anwyay, my point being that wozniak was not the larger part of a woz-jobs team.
mircea_popescu: which is why jobs belongs buried next to ogilvy not next to naggum
shinohai: ^ generated by python, no less
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-31 21:29 gabriel_laddel_p: now, I am 100% with ascii that floats have to die. no question. I, however, am severely undereducated & don't know what to replace them with.
mircea_popescu: it's not even a positive matter. machine can only have ints until we build a radically diff machine
mircea_popescu: nah, analogues went away for the new jersey reason. too slow.
mircea_popescu: i read once on a blogpost by legere-x (the world's first drop-out with a certificate) that you can divide things whenever you need to.
mircea_popescu: I MUST BE INDEMNIFIED FOR MY DETRIMENTAL RELIANCE ON THIS!
mircea_popescu: tell some rando dunning-kugerand that he's intellectually unqualified to do what he thinks he's doing, he'll count himself insulted.
mircea_popescu: the part where he ACTUALLY isn't so qualified not a problem.
mircea_popescu: can't build fucking "intellectual leadership" out of lazy rewrites out of the slime that comes out of tardstalk/reddit when squeezed.
mircea_popescu: kanzure that he's not qualified to do things with his head, look for a plumber job.
kanzure: can you make a more specific complaint
kanzure: all answers must be submitted in the form of questions, thanks.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 05:59 mircea_popescu: kanzure
http://ledgerx.com/is-btc-real << this is uniquely stupid. for one thing, the "conceptualization" of bitcoin as a "real number" is below sophomoric. there is no such thing as a "btc", properly speaking ; it's satoshis all the way down, and they are integers.
kanzure: you think i have not implemented sats?
mircea_popescu: but some random weasel who couldn't, on his own salt, as much as turn on the machine.
mircea_popescu: and who somehow expects nevertheless he;s better than the 80bux a trick costa rican whores./
kanzure: i've never asked as much; is that important?
mircea_popescu doesn't have it in for mediocre engineers as he has it for the medicore management.
kanzure: let me know when you're done admiring mediocrity
mircea_popescu: partly because there is no such thing as mediocre management.
shinohai: I like hoe kanzure rhymes with `Cancer` .... If trinque agrees it will make my week.
trinque: eh, kinda curious if the forum can digest the glib outer layer, see what's underneath.
trinque: there's some bandwagon I'm not on.
shinohai: Absolutely nothing ..... carry on
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 17:47 r0nin-: Rome is on the map becuase of caraceni
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: because why the fuck is the KKKalifornian orchard of Fago-Tree dumping all of it's refuse here all of a sudden and shitting up the logs.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 00:48 mircea_popescu: but some random weasel who couldn't, on his own salt, as much as turn on the machine.
mircea_popescu: he could believe orcas fly through the (1900s version of) ethereum at the behest of a burning goat's skull ; for as long as this strange array of notions doesn't get in the way of his daily life it's called subclinical.
kanzure: nah i strictly hold myself in higher regard than mircea_popescu no worries there.
mircea_popescu: kinda the signature of that particular churchlet, they have a list of beliefs that are mostly chosen for being dull.
mircea_popescu: as in, no points of edges, nothing where they may end up caught by.
mircea_popescu: the two aren't even that distinguishable. as per discussion re progressivism of fundamental xtians etc.
mircea_popescu: as phf points out, a noisy engine that still runs nevertheless is still running.
mircea_popescu: in the exact same vein : prostate cancer is common in older men, and also very little concern. it is so slow that the odds of anyone dying from it are negligible.
mircea_popescu: some doctors are hypocratic enough to point this out to the patients ; others want the insurance coupons. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the deahtspital would be a very useful addition to the clinical system. open for ppl over 60, they give you a list of things. "hello mr smith. you're 68, and we can tell you that your kidneys will kill you in a decade, except your heart will get you before you're 75, and then there's this patch of skin cancer that needs like 20 years at your age. stay out of car crashes and sudden falls."
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with the us srsly now. who the fuck even cares other than the patient.
mircea_popescu: "we aim to build a government out of trying to withhold all information from all those it is of any interest. WONT WE BE IMPORTANT THEN!"
mircea_popescu: notreally. in fact, for meathead subclinical neurosis is a disease of least concern.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only in a view where matters of strategy are open to engineers. this is eminently not how the fiat farms are run.
mircea_popescu: i dunno you need finely tuned, functional antennas to copy/paste github into "your" project.
mircea_popescu: that and kubinetes. ask teh people who actually live in the west.
mircea_popescu: i hope people of the future will come to the conclusion al-warmist was a sort of you know, al-gore from which algorithm was derived ; or al-kenny.
mircea_popescu: this, btw, is just about how archeology/history works. "southpark was an irish village in the 2nd millenium period."
mircea_popescu: the realisation that wikipedia makes one stupid isn't all that common.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it's just a standard in whatever python bot. iirc we even had it in bitcoin-otc
mircea_popescu: they're very inept, in any practical sense, can't actually DO anything, as much as a de-pdf-er or whatever. logs can't live on www because among all the transhumans there isn't a single one who CAN do this.
mircea_popescu: all of them think they COULD, of course, but these are very different items.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 21:57 mircea_popescu: the only reasonable move for safeguarding earth's future, is to keep you lot as far as feasible from any buttons that are connected to anything.
kanzure: on a totally unrelated note i promise, what exactly is your progress towards nuking california
kanzure: seems to be one of your goals
kanzure: perhaps if you tried harder
kanzure: wasn't it your opinion that such tasks should not be left to children? you guys are so full of shit.
scriba: ssh banner of 80.86.145.56 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.9p1 Debian-4
mircea_popescu: kanzure dja understand why native african can't respond to 1860s brit wondering how the fuck they failed to colonize madagascar with "oh yeah ? where's your airplanes then! you seem to want airplanes!"
mircea_popescu: you know as well as i do that the reason your log lives on .log files is because all of you lot think you could, but none of you lot actually can make a sane log. that's what the random package a low effort search returned does, and that is what you get. same is true of all other items, either you found it at the walmart in the "diy" section or you don't have it.
kanzure: yuep that's what we spent $27 million on. browsing walmart. k
mircea_popescu: this is a fundamental problem, and a major irritant to asciilifeform ; he is allergic to "i'm not a hooker, i'm a priss dressed provocatively trying to crowd out the real hookers"
kanzure: we didn't. it's all false. totally no results though.
kanzure: your expertise truly saw everything, as expected for such an illustrious maggot
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 01:39 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: because why the fuck is the KKKalifornian orchard of Fago-Tree dumping all of it's refuse here all of a sudden and shitting up the logs.
mircea_popescu: i saw what i saw. you're more than welcome to fill in the gaps, what'd i miss ?
kanzure: dunno. wait for catalog day.
mircea_popescu: the other guy spending a grand total of $1400 has a lengthy report about it, somehow i missed the corresponding link in this 27mn venture.
mircea_popescu: kanzure dja have any idea how dumb you look going in with an attempt to impress by EXPENDITURE, and then on the flimsiest of examination appearing unable to explain WHAT you bought ? tell you what, the usg you seem so keen to emulate spent a trillion and similary "wait for plane catalog day". or alternatively, has some littoral cardboard models that can't float.
kanzure: how did we get to this re: nuking california?
mircea_popescu: the correct approach is, "see this great car ? and i only paid 50 bux for it". certainly not "oh, i spend 5 mn on cars and uhm, disregard the donkey"
kanzure: would you have laughed more if i had said $270 million?
mircea_popescu: this makes me wanna compute how much i paid for tits in current fiats.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 02:02 mircea_popescu: eh, why not. "it's more affordable"
mircea_popescu: you don't need to run a node or do anything to be an ethertard. posting on wikireddit suffices.
BingoBoingo forgets how many terabytes etherspam chain was up to a couple months ago
BingoBoingo supposes it is near the time biting becomes fashionable again
mircea_popescu doubts the google ai can actually find costa rica. reals you see, errors compound, place is small.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is that what hpluschannel is talking about?
mircea_popescu: really, "mp in danger of being extradited" already ? truly burning the years, these folks, since extracting head out of ass and self from under rock managed to get all the way to like 2013 ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Was reading. Stopped because WTF. crispr patching, BEFORE maxing out self stats with off the shelf chems
BingoBoingo: Anyways, since DIYbio became a fad on Monday: How many inches did everyone here add to their dicks?
mircea_popescu: yeah totally, my dick is now best approximated by a high cocktose corn stalk, 8 meters long an' there's twelve different ears the hos can fuck themselves silly with on its generous girthy length
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yeah totally, my dick is now best approximated by a high cocktose corn stalk, 8 meters long an' there's twelve different ears the hos can fuck themselves silly with on its generous girthy length << If we made a mold and cast this in sillycone, this might sell
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 03:06 kanzure: dunno. wait for catalog day.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've already got leaves falling in my yard (sycamore tree so early)
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4749.91, vol: 9552.63956983 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4741.1, vol: 18988.22711177 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4756.68, vol: 4264.21363502 | Volume-weighted last average: 4745.69060614
deedbot: AlfredAlfer voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: AlfredAlfer: Who is your daddy and what does he do?