Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-08-05 | 2017-08-07 → ↓
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/liquishit.txt << representative sample of the interesting part. (warning -- 20MB!)
asciilifeform: and it goes on, and on, the invalidchainfound index marches on and on, then reorg fails, then ... etc
asciilifeform: !#s 2c2314f353
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6, phf didja see 168kisms on openbsd? << not me, but others did, see: <+BingoBoingo> http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=168000
asciilifeform: mod6: i've been 'seeing' for ~3h now
mod6: <+asciilifeform> phf, mod6 , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/168k.txt.tar.gz << log << /me looks
mod6: meanwhile, what openssl are you using?
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 05:36 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 00:36:21; mod6: seems to be: 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed ... invalid block=0000000000000a40136b height=168001
asciilifeform: THE MOTHERFUCKING FROZEN ONE
asciilifeform: which else
asciilifeform: SAME ONE WE ALL USE
mod6: take it easy. just asking as it was indicated to be source of previous 168k wedge issue.
asciilifeform: i am using literally the same deps dir as for past 2y.
asciilifeform: signed, passes checksums , etc.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-23#1210108 << afaik this was never actually resolved in the logs
a111: Logged on 2015-07-23 01:10 mod6: we saw stuff like that before with the 168`001 Verify Signature fail too. most of the time it failed for us... the three of us who were independantly testing it. But sometimes, it'd pass. Maybe 30% of the time. I was pulling my hair out.
asciilifeform: went away on linux ( and apparently openbsd ) from locks patch, and that was the end of the thread
asciilifeform: if i am mistaken, mod6 et al plox to say when and where it was resolved.
mod6: so run on linux then
mod6: I just rolled in, gimme some time to catch up and figure out whats what.
asciilifeform: i'd like to get OFF linux.
asciilifeform: naively thought 'i'll start with the smallest trb node!'
mod6: I'm confused, are you saying that you're not interested in making a Cuntoo then?
asciilifeform: out of bsd.
asciilifeform: if at all possible.
asciilifeform: weigh the 2 kernels, you'll see why.
asciilifeform: see, it may seem to mod6 that asciilifeform is simply being difficult, whereas what asciilifeform found was that WE NEVER ACTUALLY FIXED 168K
asciilifeform: it was still THERE, waiting.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 23:13 mircea_popescu: right. so basically time exposed a broken box you had in your basement. happens to me all teh time.
asciilifeform: idea was, this-here static build will do same thing on every box where it builds and doesn't bomb on warmup.
asciilifeform: turns out -- not.
asciilifeform: until this 'not' remains, trb ain't a program, it's a voodoo incantation.
asciilifeform: *while this
asciilifeform: i'ma go to bed because if i keep at this, will pop a blood vessel somewhere.
mod6: Look. First off, no I don't believe we ever found the cause of this. I remember pulling my hair out trying to figure it out -- there are logs indicating as much.
mod6: I seem to remember this being specific to BSD, and in non-deterministic form. And looks like gernika for instance just simply resync'd and it seemed to not hit it again, for reasons yet unknown: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193289
a111: Logged on 2015-07-08 16:36 mod6: <+gernika> mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though. << good to hear though
mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
mod6: Also, this is a non-deterministic problem, which adds to the frustration. You have a good candidate machine, it seems, to help get this resolved though. I'll dig through your logs a bot.
mod6: *bit
mod6: This looks like exactly what we've seen before, where 168`000 was accepted just fine:
mod6: received block 000000000000099e61ea
mod6: SetBestChain: new best=000000000000099e61ea height=168000 work=243835201642261706754
mod6: ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
mod6: ----------
mod6: received block 0000000000000a40136b
mod6: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed
mod6: InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000a40136b height=168001 work=243841112905690411140
mod6: etc.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-23#1210236 << I remember that we disagree even as to which block is the problem.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-23 02:37 asciilifeform: neh that's not 168001
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D52C50A0034280ED5F7890F98B6FE38938611B865FF565FE70C268FD2A860520 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1144...3737 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.12.174 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.12.174 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE HE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D52C50A0034280ED5F7890F98B6FE38938611B865FF565FE70C268FD2A860520 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1275...9587 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.12.174 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.12.174 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE HE)
mod6: here's the tx in question, exists in block 168`001: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/In853/?raw=true
mod6: evenin'
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694192 << isn't he adorbs when he drinks tho!
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 09:18 phf: kiss from a rose … this is tmsr radio! i'm waiting from your calls.
mod6: gifs++
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694227 << lol what tales from the crypts are these!
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 19:15 asciilifeform: midnight/'fish' dun work with the heathen shell either, i end up having to tar up whatevers and sftp'em in/out , takes 100x as long
mircea_popescu hasn't looked at the bsds in years.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 19:27 phf: that memory is incorrect, the correct memory would be of ~you~ barfing at the then suggestion of supporting bsd :>
mod6: also a while back guruvan brought up the fact that when BIP 16 (P2SH) was put in was in or around this block? maybe this block exactly (need to confirm still). But if you decode these:
mod6: Perhaps this is something related to trying to handle the P2SH. Unsure at this point, but worth a look.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694264 << pretty impressive design, imo. definitely overkill for the originally contemplate usecase, which is the right way to go from experience, usecases balloon in bitcoin.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 20:09 deedbot: http://trinque.org/2017/08/05/otp-bot-services/ << trinque - Towards a Reliable OTP Mechanism for Bot Services
mircea_popescu: trinque re last para, what's wrong with you know, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693444 ? basically replace "The user decrypts the ciphertext and returns the cleartext OTP to D, which relays it to T, meanwhile revealing it to L. T replies to D with either "OK" or "FAIL", and a transaction is complete." with "T sends hash(C) to L, encrypted(C) to D. The user decrypts the ciphertext and returns the cleartext OTP to D, which
a111: Logged on 2017-08-03 18:57 mircea_popescu: trinque can always hash any item that is long to check for conformity in audits.
mircea_popescu: relays hash(it) to T and L. T replies to D with either "OK" or "FAIL", and reveals (C) to L. L calculates hash(OTP) and compares it with what D sent."
mircea_popescu: this way L only knows C after T made a decision ; D only knows a C-candiate once user made a reply ; T never knows C-candidate.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694272 << you've looked at these neh ? it's a very strict format, first line the command, 2nd line the otp. what last year's codes fits this format ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 20:26 asciilifeform: what's there to inspect ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694341 << the method is correct, but entirely unjustified effort for the possible payoff. nodes wedge because legacy bitcoin is shit, this sort of chrome polishing you propose is to be reserved for actually written code imo.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:43 phf: you replay to 167998, you then let it run till 168000 on the network. if it doesn't wedge with that setup, than you have two possibilities. it is either a heisenbug, or you need to replay to an earlier block, say 167000 and let that run on the wild network, etc.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3215.96, vol: 13865.65496821 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3223.6, vol: 33880.2826341 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3205.303486, vol: 19222.34260000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3215.649, vol: 9597.81464781 | Volume-weighted last average: 3216.62631681
BingoBoingo: Such crashing
BingoBoingo: Way behind the times. The hunnit dolla prollem solva https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/719005259/redirect
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694347 << the problem seems entirely like slow node struggliong with lengthy orphan chain.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:56 asciilifeform: phf, mod6 , et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/168k.txt.tar.gz << log
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694380 << there's no "we fixed X" outside of a rewritten p2p model. what exactly are you going to fix ? orphan chain reorgs take a lot of db resources as it is now.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:21 asciilifeform: see, it may seem to mod6 that asciilifeform is simply being difficult, whereas what asciilifeform found was that WE NEVER ACTUALLY FIXED 168K
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694393 << it's most likely deep in the bowels of bsd-bdb interactions.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:39 mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know that's pretty broken spanish even for my low standards,
BingoBoingo: When have trolls used any language with fluency?
mircea_popescu: it does happen!
BingoBoingo: When that happens it's not trolling! It's literate discourse!
BingoBoingo: "All your base are belong to us" << Trolling
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/salon-kitty-and-lempire-des-sens/ << Trilema - Salon Kitty and L'Empire des sens
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : kathy keeton treated her breast cancer with hydrazine sulphate, an idea she got reading penthouse (which she published)
BingoBoingo: "We captured your citadel and taken your women into bondage. They have celebrated rather than lamented the evolution of their situation" << Discourse
mircea_popescu: hey nb, where's that from ?
BingoBoingo: Which sample?
BingoBoingo: Trolling example is from meme, Discourse example is taken from a June 2021 Qntra piece
BingoBoingo: Meme is title of that particular Qntra piece
BingoBoingo: In other news Trump is pushing an immigration bill that would institute a point system with major points for speaking English. This is bullish for pinays.
mircea_popescu: more ladyboys less plumbers ? sounds like teh swamp's drainin'.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo btw yuou ever saw expresso bongo ?
BingoBoingo: Not to my recollection
mircea_popescu: vaguel about 1950s music industry.
BingoBoingo pencils it into "to see" list, has something of an allergy to musical theater genre
mircea_popescu: a then prolly not.
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 479309 | Current Difficulty: 8.60221984436E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 479807 | Next Difficulty In: 498 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 22 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694445 << except that this node beat the living shit out of dulap previous 2 yrs, speedwise, because ssd.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 06:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694347 << the problem seems entirely like slow node struggliong with lengthy orphan chain.
asciilifeform: anyway if you actually read the log, would see sig verify failing repeatedly.
asciilifeform: ( the debuglog, specifically )
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: What openssl version does ToasterBSD use?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: stator's !!
asciilifeform: it's a stator build
asciilifeform: dun matter worth a lick what system has
asciilifeform: i still gonna saw open the elf & see if inside is what's expected
asciilifeform: because otherwise it is wtf martian ???.
BingoBoingo: Well, does it bleed green?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/legacy-senate-gop-leader-to-america-at-least-hillary-clinton-isnt-president/ << Qntra - Legacy Senate GOP Leader To America: "At Least Hillary Clinton Isn't President"
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694394 << portage will sit down on BSD. I plopped it onto openbsd sometime earlier this year.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:40 mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
trinque: in theory, the "profile" mechanism would allow for a tmsr ebuild tree that could build on multiple chosen platforms.
asciilifeform: trinque: aha!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : to be very specific, the wedged box is running a press of mod6's 0.5.4-release, with the only change being phf's bsd patch linked yesterday.
mircea_popescu: phf can you add a refby:name to logotron search ? it'd be equivalent to from:mircea "btcbase.org/log" but list the values rather than the references.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aite, leaving it be then.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 12:58 asciilifeform: anyway if you actually read the log, would see sig verify failing repeatedly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: prolly i oughta elaborate. sig verify is a blocking process, it doesn't timeoutfail
asciilifeform: ( which i thought was mircea_popescu's implication earlier )
mircea_popescu: see, cuz that's why i said "slow box". cpu starved.
asciilifeform: wouldn't result in failed sigverify
mircea_popescu: this failure mode exists, where node spends forever unable to distinguish between orphaned chain, because can't ever get to where it actually verifies a sig.
asciilifeform: this specimen tries to verify and fails, then consequently unwinds the reorg back
mircea_popescu: but if you say this isn't what's getting your fanless box...
asciilifeform: again an' again
mircea_popescu: the txn linked though isn't one of the usual suspects.
mircea_popescu: in that it doesn't have >1k ins/outs script elements
mircea_popescu: and besides, it does verify in vitro.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694350 << the magic moment that repeats 4evah
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:09 asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/GWzyh/?raw=true << the pattern, in short.
asciilifeform: 2c2314f353 .
asciilifeform: i dun think it is anything to do with that tx per se -- it is the drop that overflowed the barrel in pre-dblockspatch trb
asciilifeform: this thing behaves precisely like trb sans locks patch, i think
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically recall 168000-168002 being a heavy load in that sense
asciilifeform did go back and verify that in fact it has the locks patch and is indeed mod6's release + phfpatch -- rather than asciilifeform's mistake
asciilifeform: !#s 168000
mircea_popescu: anyway, 168k is very old, iirc 2011
asciilifeform: and there's a history of trb nodes of various types perma-wedging there
asciilifeform: but in so far as i can see, no satisfactory explanation
asciilifeform: i've ruled out oom, also
asciilifeform: disk is a brand-new and very spiffy half TB samsung 'evo' sdd
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's see some details. main chain block 168000 is 000000000000099e61ea72015e79632f216fe6cb33d7899acb35b75c8303b763 mined 2012-2-22 at 21:31 ; size 7.1kb
asciilifeform: 168000 got eaten happily
mircea_popescu: main chain block 168001 is 0000000000000a40136ba56d6b514769534831e9ba805fef4d122f6c8d6da51c 21.2kb
mircea_popescu: in 60 txn
mircea_popescu: and finally 168002 is 0000000000000a08f0e6aa70d9f8b990c48c2d48c577393c73b9acb9a55d12cb also 28.6kb long, 61 txn
mircea_popescu: none of these are problematic in either the "new boltons to protocol" p2sh sense or size sense.
asciilifeform: yeah i didnt think so
asciilifeform: just happens to be the straw that breaks camel's back
asciilifeform: probably bdb camel
mircea_popescu: largest tx in 2 is 3854 b ; in 1 1519b
asciilifeform: betcha it ignores maxlocks setting when built on bsd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these are too small for that to be touched.
asciilifeform: the sum, the sum of them
asciilifeform: not the tx individually.
mircea_popescu: historically the problem is "o noes, orphan chain", but i have nfi who would be owning or propagating orphan chains at that height.
mircea_popescu: i mean what, they kept 5 years of history ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sure, wai not
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait, the sum of what ?
asciilifeform: i wouldn't put it past anybody, to do anything
mircea_popescu: lol yeah, well, i would put it past "people themselves" to keep archives.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: total db index mass at that point in the sync
mircea_popescu: you understand the lock thing refers mostly to handling reorgs, it isn't historical count or anything.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is just poorly written allocates a potentially infinite number of locks as part of handling the last block.
asciilifeform: i will readily admit that i dun have a proper model of how bdb liquishit works
mircea_popescu: anyway, i quoted the blocks by hash so you can check if those are the ones you're struggling with, as opposed to magicalorphans.
asciilifeform: and people who write db systems with locking, period, oughta be rendered for soap
mircea_popescu: what, no more semaphores in computing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i already walked the blox on the node in question, found 0 peculiar orphans
asciilifeform: i oughta have put this on record yea
mircea_popescu believes.
asciilifeform: and while we're on subj , semaphores/locks come from broken algos which in turn come from idiot arch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'll be the day, free traffic on the supermation inforhighway...
asciilifeform: the correct world is 'dataflow' (see logz) where every op signals output-ready, and no op proceeds until all inputs signal same.
asciilifeform: but this is whole own thread.
asciilifeform bbl, meat
mircea_popescu: amusingly, that'd prolly how comps would work if women made them originally.
mircea_popescu: how's lyf been treatin' ya mats
mats: notbad, went out on a boat yesterday n thinking about whether to go to a casino to play holdem
mats: can't beat that on-site experience, secondhand smoke and all
mats: and you?
mircea_popescu: not bad at all.
mircea_popescu: mats i tried to go play at local casino. dumped my chips half hour in because i got this unbearable feeling im at a florida retirement home playing canasta with the inmates.
mircea_popescu: reason #5498509865409 to despise herdemocracy, "peace and human rights" bullshit : it makes poker games indistinguishable from mahjong.
mats: i don't follow at all
mats: costa rican poker is played by... retirees? and they're no good?
mircea_popescu: they're mediocre, neither amazing nor terrible. but they're old, and stupid, and lazy. and not the sort of person i want to be around at all.
mats: yeah, that sucks. i go to casinos because i enjoy the idea of robbing tourists, retirees, and chumps
mircea_popescu: if you rob them worth a coupla hundred an hour, which is probably an overstatement, you'd make about the same as a silicon valley "engineer".
mats: its a fantasy ofc, everybody catches a bad beat sooner or later - but on a good day over ten hours i might hit 25-30/hr
mircea_popescu: mats and if you live to be 60 doing this, you'll look back on a life of tedium.
mats: i believe even top-tier pros struggle to do 50/hr consistently just grinding games - the real money is in tournaments
mircea_popescu: actually, the real money is in doing something else. the real sluts, the real errythings too.
mats: hmm, yes, adacryptopoker
mircea_popescu: at some past glory age poker was, at least mythically, the way to actually sit at the same table with people who matter, and thereby actually have some sort of access to the meaning of the world. these days...
mircea_popescu: strikes me as too close to "social worker" for comfort.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's just me, didn't mean to gloom & doom.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 81600 / 2087
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 81600 / 2087 = 39.0991854336368
mircea_popescu: (official numbers -- 81.6k is the average salary for sv intern, apparently ; 2087 the yearly work hours). turns out they make 40 bux.
mats: thats not very good after COLA. 1k/mo for two people to share 1bed apt in e.g. santa clara
mircea_popescu: true ; casino life's not much cheaper though.
mats: public transportation is GRIDS in sv, at least the san jose area, so... tack on car ownership costs too
mircea_popescu: lmao i was thinking, since when the fuck do indians care about stench.
mircea_popescu: mats yes, but intern can then progress to independent contractor / work for self and cut the costs to 0. this is what say 5 years' experience buys you. 5 years' experience in the casino buys you jack.
mats: i can see that
mircea_popescu: it's just not the 20s anymoar.
mircea_popescu: (this point, in either "intern can progress" or "sit in forum and access meaning" presentation, is the fundamental mechanism of both "rounders" and that "poolhall junkies" cheapo rehack of it : that the dude playing can decide the girl's future, a degree of magnitude above her own capacity. take that away -- it's not worth doing. and you sure as fuck ain't meeting the head of ny law firm socially, and play $X with him so he g
mircea_popescu: ives the slut a career)
mircea_popescu: but that was the glamor : "honey, you don't suck cock because you can't, not because you don't want to ; but even if you sucked cock, and even if you were extremely good at it, it'd still take you months to manage what i can do overnight if i fucking feel like it".
mats: in other news, there are killer intl air fare deals this year
mircea_popescu: speaking of "GRIDS", here's a very typical, and very unwittingly amusing offering : http://humantransit.org/2010/02/the-power-and-pleasure-of-grids.html
mats: found a $500, one stop, round-trip ticket to beijing from boston
mircea_popescu: mats going ?
mats: during thanksgiving though. haven't decided yet
mircea_popescu: ask the author, or generally any "city planner" what are the wrong assumptions they hid in the nonsense ? they'll look at you like you're from mars. yet... 1. all people = all other people. there's exactly 0 concept of social hierarch. 2. all people == spherical cpus in a vacuum. really bitch, i'll keep track of your stupid grids, and CONNECT ? i'm not fucking connecting lol, wtf do i care where the bus is at.
mircea_popescu: "if all people were perfectly attentive, perfectly intelligent and perfectly dedicated to the task of making our plan work ; and if they were perfectly equal and perfectly convinced we should be telling them what to do in detail ; THEN here's a solution to a problem!"
mats: heh, i wrote GRIDS but really meant AIDS
mats: theres not really any kinda grid layout in sj, and bus routes are so awful that many employees take shuttles staged in the morning at local grocery store parking lot
mircea_popescu: there's 0 way to have functional transportation in a city of aspies.
mircea_popescu: their problem is that they all think they're important. such people can not transport ; they must stay put.
mircea_popescu: hence the whole "work from home" craze.
mircea_popescu: at home, yes every single last one dork out of the 20mn can think himself overpoweringly important. at least until the broadband craps out.
mircea_popescu: aha. exactly it!
mircea_popescu: 1920s waitress would live in whatever accomodations she could find within walking distance of her bar ; and go to downtown like every other weekend and think this a major, awesome accomplishment. but 2020s waitress (aka "software engineer") exepcts to be able to travel all over the city each day. what, he's from brooklyn ? that shouldn't mean he can't work in the lower east side, what's he, some kind of slave ?!?!
mircea_popescu: and this is just you know, high level executives aka waitresses. if you look at 1920s rank and file, they lived in dorms within the textile mill complex. kinda like universities today, except you know, 30 to the room and with hall monitors turning off the lights at 8:30.
mats: i look forward to seeing 'hyperloop' in production, this should accelerate the death of vast road networks in usa
mircea_popescu: it's really a remake of the french tgv neh ?
mircea_popescu: (itself a remake of japanese equivs.) worked remarkably well at home.
mats: yes, top claimed speed for hyperloop is about twice top french tgv speed
mircea_popescu: in any case they're not making the la to sf item for the quoted 5 to 15bn. boston's big dig, a project a degree of mangnitude smaller, ended up costing well over a trillion, and this is 1999 dollars. also taking five x the time, but we leave that ot the side.
mats: putting it in production will test the massively inflated suburban and urban property values
mircea_popescu: so i wouldn't worry -- the only way this happens is if the chinese do a us-equivalent of their plan to colonize europe, and front the coupla trillion needed.
mats: so that boston real estate looks more like... tokyo real estate
mircea_popescu: wait i thought they were doing it on west coast ?
mircea_popescu: there's an east coast variant ?!
mircea_popescu: (there's been a long time train running boston to wash dc, reasonably fast, reasonably popular in the 80s. meanwhile gradually disused)
mats: not actually boston because nobody apparently wants to come here (see dearth of airlines using BOS as hub) but http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/20/538328487/elon-musk-says-he-has-verbal-ok-to-build-n-y-d-c-hyperloop
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what these folk are sniffing, but it must be some sort of heavily psychotropic mold infected their conference centers.
mircea_popescu: musk doesn't have 1% of 1% of the money he needs to build such a thing. wtf already.
mircea_popescu: the "buying russia" item was lulzy enough, but still, explainable in terms of ra ra ra. but this nonsense is simply demented.
mats: usg has generously provided musk with truckloads of cash, so, i find it probable he's not full of shit
mircea_popescu: the us does not have, even if it sold itself out, the cash to half-complete this.
mircea_popescu: there's an absolute limit turkey dollars put on "tower to the moon" efforts : if you have at most 100 turkeys you can commit, printing further pictures of a turkey on paper will not help you in your effort to build the "cart driven by 101 turkeys". because the 101th physically does not exist.
mircea_popescu: (we're not going to even go in discussions of low pressure airflow, which is a horror the wide-eyed proponents are not intellectually equipped to consider ; let's just simply talk in terms of "i can't get a plumber to fuck my wife the same week but i'll somehow get together workers willing to dig a ditch so and so long".)
mats: hmm, TIL 'chromeOS' is a gentoo since 2010
mircea_popescu: i had nfi it existed in 2010.
mircea_popescu: but, usg corp "producing" item in the vein of linux with serials filed off is no surprise by now. no turkeys, no alternative.
mats: better than ubuntu.
mats: tesla OS is ubuntu!
mats: looking forward to autopilot-induced crashes because some jokester taped malicious input to rear windshield
mircea_popescu: anyway, what was "the competitor" androidos ? centos or what ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694393 << it's most likely deep in the bowels of bsd-bdb interactions. << ah yeah, maybe so. I recall digging into this on the bsd side.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:39 mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
mod6: Don't think we ever pinpointed something though.
mod6: <+trinque> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694394 << portage will sit down on BSD. I plopped it onto openbsd sometime earlier this year. << interesting.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:40 mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
mod6: <+trinque> in theory, the "profile" mechanism would allow for a tmsr ebuild tree that could build on multiple chosen platforms. << this in fact, would be pretty neat.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694494 << did you use your vtron here? My vtron does not support bsd at this time, when we have a working trb on bsd, then will support bsd.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 15:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : to be very specific, the wedged box is running a press of mod6's 0.5.4-release, with the only change being phf's bsd patch linked yesterday.
mod6: Anyway, I'm guessing that you did. As long as you have all of the 0.5.4-RELEASE patches/seals/keys you should be fine. you could be correct about some of the alterations for locks not taking on the bsd-side.
mircea_popescu: how goes it mod6
mod6: good! you?
mod6: yowza
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the yang eastern european camp, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQMFR8nn_l8
mod6: lol!
mod6: 'One broker said a mortgage-free homeowner with a house valued at £10m had taken out a fixed-rate loan of just under £2m to buy bitcoin, ...' ^
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3261.18, vol: 6943.54177204 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3262.5, vol: 17603.87212781 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3278.491958, vol: 13429.18030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3266.324, vol: 5630.55050734 | Volume-weighted last average: 3267.70842717
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694570 << mircea_popescu that looks great, i'ma turn the knob shortly.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 16:27 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1srcg/?raw=true
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaaand it is done.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694579 << prolly still beats rotting alive in office
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 16:35 mircea_popescu: mats and if you live to be 60 doing this, you'll look back on a life of tedium.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694628 << i took that train, it was respectably full
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:33 mircea_popescu: (there's been a long time train running boston to wash dc, reasonably fast, reasonably popular in the 80s. meanwhile gradually disused)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694636 << what are they gonna run out of ? cement ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:38 mircea_popescu: there's an absolute limit turkey dollars put on "tower to the moon" efforts : if you have at most 100 turkeys you can commit, printing further pictures of a turkey on paper will not help you in your effort to build the "cart driven by 101 turkeys". because the 101th physically does not exist.
asciilifeform: dying empires all seem to go through a megalomaniacal-pyramidal construction phase
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694638 << iirc i even mentioned it in the logs
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:45 mats: hmm, TIL 'chromeOS' is a gentoo since 2010
asciilifeform: #!s chromebook
asciilifeform: !#s chromebook
a111: 27 results for "chromebook", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=chromebook
asciilifeform: ^somewhere in there
asciilifeform: at any rate 'it's a gentoo' is an almost meaningless statement -- it dun have portage
asciilifeform: and it not merely pisses but shits on gpl, the thing cannot be turned into an actual linux, and actual linux (i.e. without massive blobage) is STILL unsolved problem on that box
asciilifeform: mine gathers dust.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694653 << i did neither, but used existing press dir, from when i had pressed this on linux box
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 20:05 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694494 << did you use your vtron here? My vtron does not support bsd at this time, when we have a working trb on bsd, then will support bsd.
asciilifeform: ( i keep pretty much every intermediate step of just about every computation i ever do, because hell knows )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694665 << if it's anything like the last goxtime around, not 1 in 100 is buying ACTUAL bitcoin, but goxolade
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 20:46 mod6: 'One broker said a mortgage-free homeowner with a house valued at £10m had taken out a fixed-rate loan of just under £2m to buy bitcoin, ...' ^
asciilifeform: ( i.e. item where some other party holds -- or claims to hold -- the privkey )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694640 << amazon's devices are internally linuxed also -- unsurprisingly
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:46 mircea_popescu: but, usg corp "producing" item in the vein of linux with serials filed off is no surprise by now. no turkeys, no alternative.
asciilifeform: ( why crapple went with bsd ? partly the 'nextstep' ancestor; partly that in late 1990s it was still thought possible that gpl would have teeth )
mircea_popescu: !!up r0nin-
deedbot: r0nin- voiced for 30 minutes.
r0nin-: hello
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
r0nin-: just curious about your latam travels?
r0nin-: still argentina?
mircea_popescu: nah. costa rica.
r0nin-: any trilema articles
r0nin-: on it
mircea_popescu: sure, plenty,
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694676 << same thing they ran out of in iraq/afghanistan etc. i'd say "men" but it's not really it. you could say "people" but certainly not it. you know, non-retarded, non-gender-confused etc etc human beings.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 22:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694636 << what are they gonna run out of ? cement ?
r0nin-: mircea: ever going to settle down and set roots somewhere? or ever forever the jewish digital nomad
r0nin-: whats up with libertarians always taking on jewish traits?
r0nin-: everyone a 'wanderer' now
mircea_popescu: i have roots everywhere.
mircea_popescu: just because the duke of wurtenberg also holds luneburg doesn't mean he thereby isn't the lord sovereign in stuttgart anymore. he is, the people there bow to him like they always did, whatever other lands abroad he meanwhile acquired.
mircea_popescu: so, to ask the proper question here r0nin- , what is with the spawn of herdemocracy, always trying to edge in equalitits on some level or other ? ownership is not marriage, it is ownership. whether women or lands or anything else - the sovereign above, the thing below, their relationship unequal.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694672 << muchly depends. if the office is the usual usian horror, and the casino floor is the item from glamour shots, with the floozies and the hookers and so on, definitely. but the casino floor can be pretty depressing, especially in fucking arkansaw. and the office can be a total insoutenable legerete de l'etre style hospital, especially in eastern europe 1990s "media" or whatever "i'm
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 22:43 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694579 << prolly still beats rotting alive in office
mircea_popescu: a young slut hear me roar" sort of environment.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/no-such-labs-snsa-july-2017-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), July 2017 Statement
mircea_popescu: ^ sorry for teh delay. there's going to be a smg report next month, skipping the current.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694690 << republican computing seems to be migrating towards pretty much that in general.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 22:52 asciilifeform: ( i keep pretty much every intermediate step of just about every computation i ever do, because hell knows )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694691 << hey, if there wasn't a bar to meet, how would we get rid of all the 99% useless males women keep spawning ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 22:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-06#1694665 << if it's anything like the last goxtime around, not 1 in 100 is buying ACTUAL bitcoin, but goxolade
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3207.1, vol: 5955.40184897 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3219.7, vol: 16571.91315873 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3187.319914, vol: 13066.43300000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3227.14, vol: 5472.5686485 | Volume-weighted last average: 3208.56156797
BingoBoingo: (((r0nin-))) Why the semetic fascination?
mircea_popescu: what were the parantheses again ?
mircea_popescu: is {{{}}} just as good ?
BingoBoingo: Nah, {{{}}} has not yet been assigned
mircea_popescu: also, is semetic a contraction of semen and semitic or does semantic get involved on some level ?
BingoBoingo: Naturally, cucks gotta clean up the wife and the bull
mircea_popescu: cue the ancient joke, "two jewish families go on vacation late august in this florida roach motel cuz it's cheaper. mid afternoon they can hear each other fucking the balabusta through the paper walls, cuz it's chepaer than going out. one yells "hey itzak, is this work or leisure ?" "leisure strul, if it were work we'd have hired the paper boy to do it."
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FB5DF17A24CDA3503B550AB9A75B6CBCEE9172D1A897B92C329402E78C7EACC3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1655...5443 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.200.250.32 (ssh-rsa key from 193.200.250.32 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DK)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FB5DF17A24CDA3503B550AB9A75B6CBCEE9172D1A897B92C329402E78C7EACC3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1376...5683 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.200.250.32 (ssh-rsa key from 193.200.250.32 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DK)
mircea_popescu: and in other "rules to live by" : skirt always shorter than heels!
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 479428 | Current Difficulty: 8.60221984436E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 479807 | Next Difficulty In: 379 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
asciilifeform: phf: looks like dks is now selling... a harley
phf: asciilifeform: seems reasonable
phf: i mean, it's guy's personal ebay account
phf: heh, 2015 sportster too
asciilifeform: speaking of old harleys, looks like d00d from #bolix will trade 2 ivory cpu for 1 3620
asciilifeform: if he ever comes to these parts.
phf: he will, we already agreed that he's staying at my place, sometime in september
asciilifeform: lolneato
asciilifeform: he also wants 2nd kbd and even pile of burned out rubbish, but didn't yet suggest what he'd trade for those
phf: i think tron has a hoarding problem, i told him as much, but he really wants to keep those 36xx running in perpetuity
mircea_popescu: there's a substantial difference between that and a hoarding problem.
asciilifeform: he's just the man to cure asciilifeform's hoarding
mircea_popescu: the clinical classification specifically requires "no utility".
asciilifeform: i was frankly disappointed when i learned he already has too many dec alpha
BingoBoingo: <phf> heh, 2015 sportster too << Obviously didn't sell soul for enough if small sportster and not huge Electra Glide
mircea_popescu: incidentally, since apparently we are among cold war aficionados, anyone saw "the spy who came in from the cold" ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you can see sum of dks's income on usaspending.gov
asciilifeform: under 'symbolics technologies'
mircea_popescu: with the anglo version of alain delon (richard burton)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it barely suffices for harley annually
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not seen, no
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform last year reported was 2015 / 2011 ftr.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's possibly the worst spy movie ever made. batshit ridiculous nonsense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly site stopped updating
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worse than bond?!
mircea_popescu: funded 262k personally in 2015 / 800 bucks under the corp name in 2011.
phf: mircea_popescu: i like to make that joke, because it makes me feel better about my tiny apartment
mircea_popescu: phf is it one of those you don't like painting because you feel the walls closing in every time ?
mircea_popescu: (for equity should also point out the 262k in 2015 is very exceptional, dude averages sub 100k over 5 years)
phf: i put a 2-person tent in the middle of the room and it made the room suffocating, yes
mircea_popescu: tent in the room eh ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc dks still services an eternal contract with usg that runs on bolix and nuffin else.
phf: oh i was just experimenting with a different setup, try to see what fits and how, and how big is the footprint, that sort of thing
asciilifeform: they mostly use the alphas tho
mircea_popescu: i am not specifically informed ; but from common business sense looking at the cashflows, that contract was terminated in 2015.
asciilifeform: possibly
asciilifeform: selling harley suggests it could be so...
asciilifeform: or possibly 80+y.o. simply dun harley nomoar
mircea_popescu: vague rumors have alphabet taking over nuke softwarizing through special subsidiary also.
mircea_popescu would very much like to see the lulzpile involved. fully systemd yet ? etc.
asciilifeform: perfect match, madeinheaven -- the 1 system absolutely nobody will notice if rots
mircea_popescu: (not the crap on the rockets itself ; but there's a lot of on-the-ground tracking and whatnot)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. and the one capital acct where needed payments can be hidden.
phf: nuke softwarizing? as in power plant software, or like electronics for bombs?
phf: never mind answered
asciilifeform: prolly the 'unsexy' inventory handlig etc
asciilifeform: lolwtf is that tatoo
mircea_popescu: i confess i never understood the tattoo bs.
mircea_popescu: if you're not a fucking tribal hunter spending your time in pelts on horseback throwing spears ; if you're not a jailbird of the "jail -- only home" persuasion ; if you're not of any of the other few categories wtf are you thinking.
mircea_popescu: stupid girly with stocking ribbons tattooed mid thigh. "why, you figured you'll never live to afford stockings ?" "uhmmm".
asciilifeform: dunno, the rsaperl-cum-'i am a munition' tat was almost cool
asciilifeform: ( but did it exist? or myth )
mircea_popescu: stupid nobody chasing an identity that's specifically not-him, like in https://archive.is/leynq#selection-313.1062-313.1239
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, see, thats very specifically what i mean. oh, "She's a munition" ? what context is it in. woman is on the toilet taking a crap. is she a munition ? is it cool ?
asciilifeform: mno the rsa one, in '90s
mircea_popescu: doing something on the basis of "it'll be cook for 12 seconds the first time someone sees me and once in 7 months at a party" is very dumb in that it neglects the other 99.99% of the context.
asciilifeform: had working perl rsa
asciilifeform: and iirc was some d00d's forehead
mircea_popescu: this is my point : if you are a tribal hunter, you are a tribal hunter all day long. if you're vory, you're the fucking stars. fine.
mircea_popescu: but if you're some office plankton there's no tattoo thart can possibly fit.
mircea_popescu: hence the problem with the mid thigh ribbons.
mircea_popescu: the "im a munition" woman was going to actually be a munition MAYBE once, ever.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, she was going to be a confused ditz.
asciilifeform: i met people with horrid tat who made it specifically to close off life of being office plankton
mircea_popescu: i suppose.
asciilifeform: so possibly even this has a use.
mircea_popescu: but this is again the fundamental problem : it;s not a matter of "use".
mircea_popescu: the "use" of symbolic / ritual behaviour is an attempt of primitive mind to translate for roman faggot.
mircea_popescu: she isn't going to BE the fucking thing.
mircea_popescu: well so then it's going to be ridiculous, what.
mircea_popescu: most of the time, the item will only serve to prove that she's not what she thought she might be.
mircea_popescu: because she's a use aka gnoseology and tattos are a being aka ontology. and these do not meet.
asciilifeform: the 'munition' thing was possible exception : in the clinton-era statutes, a body with rsa perl ~was~ counted 'munition'
mircea_popescu: by whom ?
asciilifeform: state dept
mircea_popescu: was she going to be a munition living among the brazillians ?
mircea_popescu: cuz ak round is munition even in africa.
asciilifeform: idea was to troll the border guards in usa
mircea_popescu: no, i get the idea.
asciilifeform: obviously didnt work
mircea_popescu: the problem with this idea is that person spends 1 ppm if that doing the item ; and rest of 999`999 ppm doing something incompatible.
mircea_popescu: and this is the fundamental point here : white slut of contemporary does so many incompatible things she can't be meaningfully tattooed.
asciilifeform: no different than , e.g., impregnations
mircea_popescu: many uses, no specific identity. any attempt can end in involuntary humor and naught else.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for "career women" trying to "balance it" and so on ? yes, no different.
mircea_popescu: the ~only even vaguely possible wester-contemporary-tattoo is of course http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-15#1102059 ; but not even this works, because why the fuck are you getting a IANA for it. however you turn this, tattoos dun work in modern world.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-15 16:50 gribble: The Slave Register - Master/slave, O&P, SLRN, certificates: <https://www.slaveregister.com/>; TSR: Registration Numbers - The Slave Register: <https://www.slaveregister.com/about/numbers>; TSR: Registration How To? - The Slave Register: <https://www.slaveregister.com/about/reghowto>
phf: it's funny because by the time tattoo crazy started there was already enough old people with tattoos that both had the almost uniform "i made terrible mistakes" attitude and very much were self-evident personification of the sentiment. and then i guess there was a new generation planning on never getting old (or changing in any way)
mircea_popescu: and the reason they don't work is very strictly related to "freedom" and you know, consumer market segmentation. as long as there's no universally meaningfull root there can't possibly be meaningful tribal behaviour ; and if there is such a root there can't be democracy.
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