Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-06-22 | 2017-06-24 →
phf: ffs
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:15 asciilifeform: so consider plox answering the q as stated
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What's wrong with pete_dushenski using his blog as a public notebook for himself?
BingoBoingo: And it's his. Where else is he to be aggrandized if he doesn't do so on his blog?
trinque: I knew that pantsuit grandmother had something to do with it.
trinque: it's a wonderment things don't get better for them when they're behaving as hard as they can.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo has it, not sure why asciilifeform still reads my blog ? must be short of things to gripe about in life. he was never a fan afaik, this isn't news, and yet he keeps sticking his hand in fire, wondering why the smell of burning flesh lingers in the air.
pete_dushenski: if alf isn't the exception, trinque is more than welcome to remove contravex from deedbot blogroll. i won't be offended even if i do look forward to the comments here, be they negative or positive.
trinque: I don't see any reason to do that.
trinque: reminds me, I haven't tried your getpeerinfo patch yet
pete_dushenski: aha it's pretty nifty!
pete_dushenski: at least i like it. always wondered what versions were connecting to trb nodes before.
pete_dushenski: turns out it's quite the mish-mash out there. far from the taught controversy of reddit : "uasf" vs "core" vs "blockstream" . pretty much none of the software versions you read about anywhere outside #t are actually the ones in use.
trinque to bed
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1712...3877 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1786...3007 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
ben_vulpes: !!up mimisbrunnr
deedbot: mimisbrunnr voiced for 30 minutes.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2017-06-12 16:42 phf: scriba is not ben_vulpes's bot, so presumably the question is why don't ben_vulpes put up his own log speaker
ben_vulpes: what is protocol for bot voice? mimisbrunnr now has a use for that.
BingoBoingo: !!up mimisbrunnr
deedbot: mimisbrunnr voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2714.82, vol: 10434.94535349 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2667.002, vol: 4624.86528 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2682.4, vol: 13155.69327291 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2879.478063, vol: 6872.40450000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2704.057, vol: 4083.80781154 | Volume-weighted last average: 2726.05217077
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1768...7593 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( ES Z AR)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1640...4219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( ES Z AR)
mod6: mornin'
shinohai: hola mod6
mod6: how goes shinohai!
shinohai: Bored as fuck but good here ^.^
shinohai: you?
mod6: haha. good.
mod6: i've got some testing for you if you want... probably a bit later today.
shinohai: Cool ... that trb Makefiles thing ?
trinque: morning gents.
mod6: shinohai: yessir
mod6: was testing lastnight, looking good
shinohai: Heya trinque
trinque: << pretty sure the newer bots are doing the !!up dance with deedbot, couple of earlier ones grandfathered in on autovoice
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 06:01 ben_vulpes: what is protocol for bot voice? mimisbrunnr now has a use for that.
Framedragger: yeah, scriba sends `!!up`s if it's not voiced, and then does the `!!v` challenge (but is smart enough to stop spamming once it gets voice)
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: i recall a thread on the tradeoffs of this approach, do you recall? link perhaps?
Framedragger: hm notrly, can look later, but nothing pops to mind
Framedragger: i find one-off related notes like only thus far
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 19:22 Framedragger: (deedbot not in room, and so bots don't self-voice)
lobbes: (+Framedragger) [15:07:16] yeah, scriba sends `!!up`s if it's not voiced, and then does the `!!v` challenge << lobbesbot behaves in similar manner; sends !!up request when it first joins #t
diana_coman: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: hola ppls!
mod6: hey!
js-of-mp: this is the jaguar spirit of mp.
mod6: ah! looking down at us from a nice tree 'eh?
js-of-mp: this shit is addictive btw, anyone noticed ? i had to have them cut out a patch of jungle overnight and there's six confused locals holding up strange religious artefacts, just so i can catch up on logs
mod6: haha.
mod6: hello locals!
shinohai: Hola Espirtu de mp
js-of-mp: no, that's outdoors. i'm indoors. because dried plant matter totally counts yes.
js-of-mp: shinohai: the alcohol had nothing to do with it.
js-of-mp: incidentally, you'd like it here. i've seen more barefoot females in the past day than during a whole week of south carolina.
js-of-mp: and i've not even visited the trailer park yet.
shinohai: They have trailer parks there?
mod6: right on
js-of-mp: hm, that\s a point, i guess trailer park = government buildings huh. certainly the way it works in the us-liberated terra obscura.
lobbes was imagining thatched roof trailers
shinohai: With stone wheels yet
js-of-mp: with square banana "wood" tyres. you know, for stability.
js-of-mp: the nicaraguan border people were kinda funny, they were like "purpose of visit ?" "just for fun" then they were "no, seriously, purpose of visit."
shinohai: "I want to see if I can call up the spirit of Manuel Noriega!"
js-of-mp: lmao
shinohai: "Anything to declare?" "Well I have this scrap of fabric from one of Ollie North's uniforms. It is critical for the séance"
js-of-mp: lol thye didn't ask.
Framedragger: irc in plant hut sounds pretty damn l33t, gotta say...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 13:58 shinohai: Stay tuned to find out why the ETH genesis block funds have moved. Absolute pin-drop silence on that one.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-19 16:09 asciilifeform: shinohai: see also thread
Framedragger: have you literally travelled through some jungle, js-of-mp?
js-of-mp: Framedragger: i have some ancient pix about how that looks like on trilema im pretty sure. little has changed.
Framedragger: ahh, will check :) cool.
js-of-mp: but of course. they don't have pine forest here, see. what they have is jungle
js-of-mp: kinda comes-with-the-territory, so to speak. from colombia to southern mexico it's one big rainforest.
shinohai: In todays rape news:
js-of-mp: how the hell did she have sex with a 9yo ?!
shinohai: This being arkansas, I guess Father, brothers, or cousins were previously engaged.
js-of-mp: only chick i know from arkansaw ~never had sex befoar. apparently it's a hot land of mosquitoes and tedious religious nuts, you can't get it on inside, you can't get it on outside.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 18:27 erlehmann: at work, everyone who has a non-standard setup on GNU/linux, uses i3
js-of-mp: aww all teh mouse hatred. wtf is wrong with them anyway, xtg took mice pointing, and you used it.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 18:28 asciilifeform: 2) does it know about mice, and take input from the mouse ?
js-of-mp: or w/e nc
js-of-mp: << word. lobbes also did a lot, and jurov. these being just the substantial contributors.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:02 danielpbarron unofficially works on eulora. occasionally publishes patches to the client. almost ready to publish a eulora-gentoo recipe
js-of-mp: well, and chet while she lived, of course.
js-of-mp: an phf got it to run on mac originally, and ben_vulpes is fucking up blender so it stops bleeding, and really come to think about it everyone is probably working on eulora even if not published anything yet.
js-of-mp: except for asciilifeform who has no time for such things so instead he is writing a proper rsa to be licensed by nsa to minigame so totally different.
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1019...4117 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE HE)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1289...7267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE HE)
Framedragger: such a monstrous oligarchy!!11
js-of-mp: lel.
js-of-mp chuckles privately at all the people who will be later going "motherfucker, so he comes on at an ungodly hour, bombs the log and then melts in the mists!!!1"
js-of-mp: but, to come back to the question, apparently everyone in tmsr is working on everything, whatever they do. because the spython being in one strand has implications both ways.
BingoBoingo: Maybe you should have a doctor check that mist melt out?
js-of-mp: they'll probably find a gecko in it.
js-of-mp: anyone know the cackling call they make btw ?
BingoBoingo: No birbs?
BingoBoingo: Because geckos are racis
js-of-mp: BingoBoingo: my automatic gate was dead in cr. so i'm like wtf. the handyman takes it apart, finds gecko in the control box, getting slowl fried.
BingoBoingo: !!up js
deedbot: js voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: they're everywhere, insistently so.
BingoBoingo: Free resistors!!!
js-of-mp: and low resistence ones at that.
js-of-mp: aw shit, people down history tree will think it's "the javascript of mp" won't they. damn.
Framedragger: is literally what i thought at first
js-of-mp: this, my dear sir, IS BIAS.
Framedragger: (something like, "the side-effects / leaky state of mp that could not have been contained; it crept onto irc" (i had a beer))
asciilifeform lulzily, and almost polar oppositely of js-of-mp -- is in nyc
js-of-mp: very much polar oposite.
asciilifeform: for no good reason either!111
js-of-mp: you mean "for no good reason, ether" ?
asciilifeform: aahalol
js-of-mp: alcohol ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: clearly dancing in "pride" parades
js-of-mp: ether alcohol ? breaking down that brain barrier finally ? :D
phf is in seattle. midway point between new york and a jungle
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: those are usually in dc afaik
js-of-mp: phf: are there straight males in seattle btw ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lolwat
shinohai is suddenly hungry for an LA Burrito now that asciilifeform mentions NYC
asciilifeform: js-of-mp: hunter thompson had a thing re drinking ether
js-of-mp: aha. ad look where it got him!
ben_vulpes still boggling at the notion that dc pride would be significantly anything
ben_vulpes: actual leather in the streets etc?
js-of-mp: got a lot of unemployed, criminology degreed latinas nobody could be bothered to fuck at home, ben_vulpes. they gotta do SOMETHING OMG PLEASE
ben_vulpes: that ain't the pride i know
ben_vulpes: if the parades aren't 5% body hair by volume IT AIN'T MOTHERFUCKIN PRIDE
js-of-mp: "i'm not into raves i just like intoxicated naked teens with an overexcitable personality"
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:19 Framedragger: funny thing is i'm not really into raves. at the same time i have a pile of high quality mdma that i now need to dispose of, because changing country. so who knows
phf: js-of-mp: funny. i walked down the street from rail station to hotel, and the two outside happy hour groups i passed were talking IT. "yeah, we did some products and about to launch" etc.
js-of-mp: o yeah. it's like totally happening and hubbing up, seattle. with tech and nology and stuff.
js-of-mp: i know all about it, read it on the side of an old 80s mag in my dentist's office.
ben_vulpes: gnologeee
js-of-mp: a good dose of the conference clap = gnologee.
ben_vulpes: seattle's got the *claptrap*!
phf: it is though another one of those u.s. cities being rapidly bought up by chinese, so in some sense it's booming
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> js-of-mp: hunter thompson had a thing re drinking ether << Nah, huffing it
js-of-mp: quaffing, queefing, huffing, farting, it's all the same really.
js-of-mp: phf: the funny thing is that the japanese went though this whole cycle post toyota explosion, you recall ? it didn't work out for them, so i suppose the locals have a hidden hope that a bn strong continent may end up fizzling like a 50mn island did.
js-of-mp: i... have my doubts. parts for alf's model are cheap, you can get self-firing perimeter machine guns installed for less than a car costs.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:20 Framedragger: erlehmann: i've been to c-base a coupla times, curious if there are any hackerspaces which are less about showing off and more about actual DIY projects etc (not sure if can meaningfully interact in the span of only a week tho, i guess)
js-of-mp: not anywhere in europe this exists. it's in part excusable because teenagers naturally peacock as ~only activty unless adults make them work. and no adult made anyone work in two decades.
asciilifeform: there was, i shit thee not, a billboard for 'brighterion: machine learning and ai'
asciilifeform: on the interstate
phf: i grew up on the tail end of robocop era, so intimately remember u.s. being bought up by japan. of course i missed the whole crash part, so was severely disappointed when i discovered how bland most of the u.s. urban areas are.
js-of-mp: << the problem here being entirely cultural. dumbass "locals" ie, suckers bereft of mobility, imagine to the point of expecting that they'll dictate others' behaviour. in serious need of public nude beatings, zee germanz.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:29 erlehmann: b) many airbnb guests behave in such an obnoxious way that entirely unpolitical people living in the same house hate them with a passion.
js-of-mp: phf: yeah, japanese investments in the us sufferent from a bit of "turner buys mysplace" thing : they went home at the same time, drove a real estate panic.
phf: seattle though still has holdovers from the neon era. japanese bars that were probably hot in the 80s, that serve purple drinks served in cocktail glass
js-of-mp: << you are misusing the term. gentrification is when the tiresome old women are richer than the pair of 20yo twinks, make them get out. here the pair of 20yo twinks is richer, you get obnoxious old women gathering around the church to whine about how prices are going up on stuff and they can't keep up. as i
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:30 Framedragger: (or well, maybe i'm misusing the term)
js-of-mp: f somehow they fucking should god help us.
js-of-mp: phf: which reminds me, there's this thing in costa rica, "cafe con cuerpo". there's a single solitary chick in stripper ware, very VERY put off by having to talk to people and get them drinks and stuff in that gedup.
js-of-mp: i imagine it was very happening at some point.
js-of-mp: but today, just the cardboard airplane remains.
js-of-mp: << and the solution to that is to go back out, buy a dozen cyanoacrylate mg things, and fix everyone's lock.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:31 erlehmann: by passion, i mean: some door locks are faulty and seem to spontaneously fail in the middle of the night, when you come back to the ap.
phf: death comes for us all
phf: oh yeah, i've been meaning to comment on that log, but fell asleep last night..
js-of-mp: and generally speaking : whenever the obnoxious old women try to do the group split, force the outgroup identification on her. do they wish to identify your whores as "going naked around" ? fine. let them do it for a coupla weeks then chain them naked to your audi and drag them through the market.
js-of-mp: and remember it only stings if they invest in the anti-identification first.
js-of-mp: which is why fake news is the name for the pantsuit party mouthpieces, and so on.
scriba: Logged on 2017-06-23: [16:26:00] <js-of-mp> not anywhere in europe this exists. it's in part excusable because teenagers naturally peacock as ~only activty unless adults make them work. and no adult made anyone work in two decades.
Framedragger: that said, i think they may have an issue with onslaught of said teenagers. thus far they are coping
js-of-mp: Framedragger: vilnius is in europe now ?!
Framedragger: ah well, you have a point :)
js-of-mp: dun dun dun.
Framedragger: .su represent!
js-of-mp: come one come all, come ye and witness mp havin ga point!
phf: i did find it amusing to see the interaction of two different brands of socialism (Framedragger whose pedigree i think is more of an IT globalism, and erlehmann who's german and a Berliner so he has a very traditional views that were directly shaped by ussr)
js-of-mp: phf: oya, i'm very much settled in comfy-like for the coming lulz of erlehmann unwinding his berliner mindset.
Framedragger: curious to hear about intersection of IT globalism and socialism, not sure, hmm. (may follow-up later, tho)
Framedragger: "what is IT globalism"
js-of-mp: recall the clever chick that couldn't make it ? i think he's in a much better position, for being male.
js-of-mp: Framedragger: let's put it this way : a youthful expectation that the reason you're not doing 30s beer advertisement with the chick at the bar is because you're not speaking the right language, not because she's fundamentally broken one way and beer advertisements fundamentally broken the other way.
js-of-mp: 30s = 30 seconds, it's a term of art, most people in footage production these days either trained for, worked for, or aspire to making 30second clips of things for purposes. the ultimate art-with-a-tendency.
BingoBoingo: <js-of-mp> recall the clever chick that couldn't make it ? i think he's in a much better position, for being male. << AHA
Framedragger: something about trying to find local issues vs. accepting that there are irreparable general and systemic issues? that's all i got (not that it's not meaningful)
Framedragger: (i guess i can see that)
js-of-mp: Framedragger: not really. something about the expectation that as your penis theoretically plugs any cunt, so does your everything else fit with everyone else's.
js-of-mp: except this theoretically only exists through a (sane, of course) misinterpretation of the absence of experience as the presence of possibility.
js-of-mp: "just because you've never been to the nicaraguan jungle doesn't mean you'd want to" "but mp, how do you know ?" "right."
Framedragger: aha, ok; false assumptions about the breadth of possibility (over-extrapolating the horizon of possibility, something)
Framedragger: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: "all people are the same in that i don't know about them and all phone chargers fit each other or else you can get converters for a nominal fee" == it globalism.
Framedragger: i can see how more experience is needed to properly attune these sensors, hm
js-of-mp: this then powers the cringy "oh, people are making choices against their own best interest" by it globalist socialists who eg got into politics "to help people" and disover the people they're helping don't want their help.
js-of-mp: Framedragger: there's no properly here. i am not saying anything about it is improper.
js-of-mp: it's perfectly reasonable, nothing wrong with it. specific, yes, but thats what you get for being alive. i don't have red hair, and i don't look sudanese. what can you do.
erlehmann: << a type of situation, where if you are clever enough to react in a calm and decisive manner, you are probably not obnoxious enough to end up in it
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 16:32 js-of-mp: << and the solution to that is to go back out, buy a dozen cyanoacrylate mg things, and fix everyone's lock.
js-of-mp: erlehmann: people do have generally enough sense to be thoroughly petrified of me before doing something irreparably stupid like that, so yes i guess you're right.
js-of-mp: lizard brain gets man out of more trouble than gets him into. except the former\s never counted properly.
erlehmann: phf btw is there any way i could have phrased it differently so that “berliners hate tourists and airbnb in particular” could not have been interpreted as “i hate tourists and airbnb in particular”?
js-of-mp: he doesn't think that i'm pretty sure.
js-of-mp: "berliners hate tourists and airbing particularly and i understand how they're thinking"
erlehmann: i often have the problem that i describe a position and then people think i support it. i stopped describing moldbug's ramblings because of that, though i find urbit in particular a quite good idiot test.
js-of-mp: << eh, nothing beats the flaming bag srsly now. 1. you buy a sturdy paper bag. 2. you take a good shit on it. 3. you put it in front of door. ring the doorbell 5. you set it on fire.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:32 Framedragger: any personal experiences there? i've heard of "frozen piss" bomb concept, yeah
phf: erlehmann: oh no, there was no misunderstanding. it's actually other parts of that whole conversation.. some of the things you say and how you say them align with your background in ways in which i can recognize them
trinque: I was going after the topics you were avoiding.
js-of-mp: then watch person step repeatedly i nshit.
erlehmann: phf i see!
deedbot: << Qntra - Violence Today: One Arrest, Another Suspect At Large For Threatening Trump
js-of-mp: erlehmann: i can swear such identification is not made here.
erlehmann: js-of-mp i have never seen burning shitbag. it also means person has to be home.
js-of-mp: point in case, i often say programmery things, nobody thinks im a programmer.
js-of-mp: erlehmann: if person isn't home, the population density isn't high enough for jewish ghetto warfare bs of the sort contemplated.
js-of-mp: << i've not actually yet used airbnb. i don't honestly think it's more than a gloified craigslist made by some kids with handmade ezine cereal boxes or w/e equivalent. but the thing is i generally travel with a herd and we don't deal by the room. though in some places traditional renters do attempt to co-op
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:32 jurov: O.o my first two airbnb experiences were fine, but that was in greece, they don't mind noise
js-of-mp: t airbnb as just another want ads venue. but those places aren't where "it globalist" kids go, nor do those renters meaningfully compete with the rest of the market, that gleefully ignores it like it ignores tumblr.
Framedragger: i did rent out a large whole riad in fez through it, no regrets there
js-of-mp: what's a riad and what's fez ?!
Framedragger: came with one mr Jawad, a local housekeeper and guiding spirit (those medinas are *complex*)
js-of-mp: oh city, fez ?
Framedragger: why, i thought this was a *cultured* sort of place :D
Framedragger: i guess i should say "fes"
js-of-mp: yeah, arab world has strange relationship with seattle products, all bets are off there.
Framedragger: riad as in traditional moroccan house, yeah
js-of-mp: yes now it parses lol.
trinque: I saw this same sort of "conditions worsen daily, isn't it hilarious? but I really don't care, really" in portland among the web developer idiots.
trinque: ben_vulpes: na'mean?
js-of-mp: trinque: ascetism is and always was popular with youth. because if the do without things, that means they've got substance yes/
js-of-mp: all youth ever wanted on this bland green earth was some substande damnit.
Framedragger: totally, guilty there
trinque: very holy and above it of them.
js-of-mp: god love them wetly for the girls sure don't.
erlehmann: seems wotc got it right > Substance is an obsolete keyword ability that had no inherent effect.
js-of-mp: << it's also not much of an inconvenience.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:35 erlehmann: example: burning cars. if your car is insured and it burns, that is not vandalism.
Framedragger: erlehmann: critique of aristotele's metaphysics in game, i like it
js-of-mp: ahahaha wtf!
js-of-mp: i always suspected im missing out on a lot with the whole trade card thing
erlehmann: Framedragger they once tried to pander to people like you and do arthouse gaming. newbies stopped playing, now they limit complexity to attract new marks.
ben_vulpes: trinque: "it's all going to shit, and none of us can do anything about it, and isn't it weird that nobody wants to talk about how its going to shit, and maybe we're the crazy ones so STOP BEING SO DEPRESSING
js-of-mp: << but that's the very thing : married "now i can get fat" old cow doens't think she should have to streetwalk because "above her".
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:39 ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live
js-of-mp: besides, they had a rape in berlin not even century ago, "i sucked it enough".
ben_vulpes: crime of having married a man who doesn't look askance at the growing fat, see also 'health at any size'
js-of-mp: well sure. ever met german men ?
js-of-mp ran into this dork in bsas, with ru chick in tow. my escort directly hit on her, and the dude wanted to review my qualifications.
js-of-mp: to his mind, that was adequate defense to sexual preditor propositioning sexual preditor.
js-of-mp: << the problem is hat "local community" does NOT get to evlauate negative/positive.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:39 Framedragger: gotta agree with you, #t will disdainfully sneer at "omg, kom000nity!!", but it does suck that local communities get negatively impacted in this regard
js-of-mp: let them get fucked, it's good for them.
erlehmann: seems that in soviet america, arson is even weirder
js-of-mp: check it out, la moved into frisco over the past three decades.
js-of-mp: erlehmann: why is the illustration a (bad) drawing of a fire ?
erlehmann: js-of-mp no idea. article kind of dances around question if house owners would burn houses to evict less profitable renters, then interviews one guy who was entrapped to pay for fire. money quote: Gideon was jailed for 17 months. He hung around with the other Jewish prisoners. They were popular. Gideon says the non-Jewish inmates would ask their advice on starting businesses or trading currencies.
erlehmann: neither before or after that article contains word “jew”
erlehmann: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: i dun see how this is worth the read.
erlehmann: tbh, it probably isn't. i already spoiled the singular joke.
js-of-mp: << you realise this isn't the be all end all. in nicaragua the flor de cana gran reserva 7yo media will run you about five dollars. BUT WHAT DO YOU KNOW TOURIST!
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:48 erlehmann: on the other side of the street the drink will cost half as much, but what do you know, tourist!
ben_vulpes: tangential thread in my house last night, "sure, advertising industry pushes ridiculous body imagery but a) shame is part of the toolset a society uses to hold down runaway obesity and b) the stupid lazy shits are going to leverage anything they can find to justify their shit behavior and so they took the not-entirely-senseless 'hey, lotsa different body shapes besides the CGI on the teevee can be healthy
ben_vulpes: and even attractive' and ran with it straight to 'health at any size'"
js-of-mp: i mean, if you're in a shithole sorry enough that drinks on either side of street are the same drink, you really have no business paying anything anyway.
js-of-mp: ben_vulpes: it's not even the body image issue here. but have you noticed gurls in beer commercials have always been dealt 0 anxious/anyoing behaviour, somehow ? just like teens in soda commercials seem to all speedball at the same time, which is 30 seconds before camera light came on.
deedbot: << Qntra - German Police Hate-Raid Homes Over Political Speech
erlehmann: ben_vulpes only that advertising industry is not trying to shame people into being thinner, but to dull their hideounsness
BingoBoingo: <js-of-mp> check it out, la moved into frisco over the past three decades. << Aztlan kicked them out of LA. Compton of "Straight Outta Compton" fame was ethnically cleansed of black people by the Aztecs. Note how little the Reverend Al Sharpton spoke of this.
erlehmann: “you are fat? well, you can still be fat and feeeel beautiful, just eat shit!”
js-of-mp: BingoBoingo: you mean to tell me little short dudes with wet backs buchered the god's children that are afroamericans ?!?!?! BUGT H
js-of-mp: << this is not only not true, but lacks the ability of carrying truth.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:48 asciilifeform: << i find it lulzy that folx will happily say this to someone to whom they would ~not~ necessarily say 'kill yerself nao, slice lengthwise' . but at the same time the phrases have EQUIVALENT meaning, because at some point you are already as rich as you possibly know how to become.
BingoBoingo: "You really think Latinos coming over here to kumbaya with you, think again. Think you only gotta worry about Europeans, think again. These Latinos with their gangs are the new KKK for many of brothers and sisters on the West Coast. And our gangs aren't anywhere close in numbers compared theirs. "
ben_vulpes: side thread on that thread was "also omfg the 'ad industry body image thing' came out of EXISTING TABOOS AGAINST BEING OBESE"
js-of-mp: ben_vulpes: you are aware the lens thickens are you ?
js-of-mp: ie, normal women look fat on tv.
erlehmann: Framedragger very old card. but check out how name, illustration and database id align:
js-of-mp: BingoBoingo: well, might be because blacks are ~gypos, ie ineffectual when wet and cowardly in any case. but whadda i know.
BingoBoingo: js-of-mp: Well, I now chuckle that "straight OUTta compton" now has new meaning 20-30 years later
Framedragger: you know you're in for some fun when the key is named "multiverseid" lol
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: think about simple preditor, say spider. is "be less hungry" an invitation to "kill self" ? spider is certainly not programmable machine, it has kernel burned in rom and ain't learning anything or in any way changing. yet the difference betwen "be less hungry" and "kill self nao" in the case of the spider is ... ?
js-of-mp: BingoBoingo: bwahahah i guess huh
js-of-mp: "we'll do all da posturing you can stand with iron gold chains and clip-less shotguns, and then straight outta compton."
js-of-mp: << a) your client is clipping and b) that's obviously the case of berlin. when that sort of bitching is going on, the lido's long sanded and everyone worth two shits gave up and moved on long ago.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:51 lobbes: ben_vulpes: if the "community" can't soak people who want to come there and spend money adequately to make tourism +ev for the hosts incl. cities, how can they even justify continuing to live << I grew up on The Cod in Massachusetts; "working class" locals were always bitching about how much they hated tourists, but that tourism $$$ is the ~only~ thing sustaining that particular sandbar. Fishing is dead, and retail and landscaping indus
Framedragger: erlehmann: i admit i didn't get the reference re id (some event in year 1488?)
js-of-mp: and this is specifically the case of berlin. it'll never again be anything more than a 2nd hand bruxelles, that is to say bureaucracy reservation, a la wash dc. art, culture, what have you ain't gonna go there.
ben_vulpes: js-of-mp: sure, yeah
Framedragger: aaahahahah many thanks :D
Framedragger: (ud delivers again)
js-of-mp: << you know how pantsuit party had a lot of support in the polls and then didn't ? german politicians are ENTIRELY illegitimate, the dork in thailand or the one in korea at least are familiar to the populace. german politruks are irrelevant to anyone and to anything.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:55 trinque: erlehmann: please bridge the gap for me between "country that is welcoming a flood of foreign invaders" and "omg haet tourists, I'll torch your car"
phf: that seems like central/eastern europe thing though. almost unheard in u.s. (except i guess among diehard stormfront folk), and looks like not as much in western western europe either
js-of-mp: phf: there's a difference in the soviet lands between what people know and what they'll admit to knowing.
BingoBoingo: In other failed states: Illinois legislature is in "special session" to avoid getting booted from lottery treaty
js-of-mp: i was recently shocked by this in discovering at a gathering that out of six people present five actually knew trilema, none would have mentioned it ever.
js-of-mp: << and especially in the way where they're better than the locals in every way. and i mean that literally, every way.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 19:55 erlehmann: tourists are worse in every way
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: funny what turn out to be motivating factors, eh?
js-of-mp: << ahahaha ok this is just precious.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:00 erlehmann: berlin is special, partially because both east and west used it to show off.
js-of-mp: man, you think bakersfield's not special ? just ask whatever fried out zombies you can get to not drool for half a minute.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Seriously. Only time Legislature and this governor have been able to come to terms was when legislature as sqashed between governor and lottery treaty organization
phf: it's a big millennial thing, not to be perceived as a tourist. gets almost comedic, where every travel story i heard from a certain type of white girl involves "staying at the house of this local family" or being invited to "this bar that only locals go to" etc.
trinque: "pls I have no in-group, so lonely"
js-of-mp: phf: and you know right then and there that in any practical terms (ie, slurping some local cock) her trip was a total waste.
phf: i usually counter that with "lol no hilton in the area, i only stay at hilton" etc. etc.
js-of-mp: ask her about smoking the cock instead.
js-of-mp: "whenever i go places, i fuck half local. that eases the pain of staying at whatevefr place is both good quality and a good deal, whatever it may be called."
phf: hehehe
phf: that is the unspoken part isn't it
js-of-mp: it is.
js-of-mp: THAT is what she's saying. that you shouldn't think her an unmarrigeable loose woman, beacause even though she is tinted by monkey juice, it only went in her shoes.
js-of-mp: wtf was that film with the whote chick in indochina fucking some local dude ? hm
ben_vulpes: eat play derp?
erlehmann: eh, it's not always unspoken. one woman told me that one reason she fucks around would be that “it's hard to find intimacy while travelling any other way”. because, you know, fucking strangers is a real intimate thing!
js-of-mp: !~google l'amant
jhvh1: js-of-mp: The Lover (1992) - IMDb: <>; The Lover (Duras novel) - Wikipedia: <>; The Lover (film) - Wikipedia: <>
js-of-mp: erlehmann: she means a very specific thing. "it's hard to get cuddled any other way".
js-of-mp: because yes, carring her blankie is ridiculous, large teddies don't pack well, and not that many men tolerate her presence
js-of-mp: phf: but of course the real barb in there is the "half" part. as erlehmann aptly pinpoints.
erlehmann: later i realized that while i gave her an orgasm, i should have given her a hug. i'm so mean!
js-of-mp: hug after.
js-of-mp: but anyway, next time spank her lightly and graciously permit her to apologize for it.
erlehmann: i think nowadays no fucks would be given. X Y problem.
erlehmann: looking for hugs? don't act slutty so you get some. there are other ways.
phf: i didn't get the "half" part
phf: oh oh "half local" meaning half local/lalf my own
js-of-mp: << this is a fine statement of the nonsense. "once market is saturated technologically, 1. invent alternative nonsense criteria 2. let nonsense criteria run sensible criteria out of market". this is how cars work, for instance : the best car ever made were the german items mod 2000s. there is not, nor can t
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:04 asciilifeform: the second stage of this cancer is when market begins to segment SOLELY based on orc proximity -- i.e. your house costs moar, or less, ~strictly based on how much orc you are willing to tolerate in everyday life, and not, say, based on size, or whether it is made from brick or shitboard
js-of-mp: here be better cars made. so they started with the whole "emissions" crap, exact equivalent of the orc thing in renting. now all you can get are the same b-m-double-shoe bullshits, except they're toyotanissan.
js-of-mp: phf: if i fuck half local, it means the other half is what ? how did it get there ? omfg if i already have the hugs what am i doing... headxplody.
js-of-mp: aha.
js-of-mp: erlehmann: this btw is patently stupid / entirely false redditism. there's no "act less slutty be more successful / happier / godblesseder" in nature. it is 100% th ebyproduct of ustards being retards.
js-of-mp: irl, there's no prizes for the wallflower.
erlehmann: js-of-mp misunderstanding. i like slutty behaviour. but if you want something else than sex, don't be disappointed if slutty behaviour results in sex.
shinohai: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: its not a matter of like. it is a matter of the dorky reductionism, "oh, slut gives up on everything for sex". this isn\'t taking holy orders.
js-of-mp: slut WILL be your boss.
erlehmann: worst story of that type was that i once got a lecture how prostitution is bad, because the woman who told me that had done it and never found love (abridged, but probably truthful enough). meanwhile, other people rather fuck for money than work as a waiter.
js-of-mp: the woman lied about being a whore.
js-of-mp: any even moderately competent whore will get a "twu wuv" idiot each season.
js-of-mp: there's no exception to this rule and i think i know more whores than any representative ever knew of his electoral basis.
erlehmann: i guess the point was that she did not catch feelings. i know that type and keep away now.
js-of-mp: next time idle chatterbags make that claim, point out to them that you once fixed a shower head yet you don't go around trying to pass for handyman in social situations.
js-of-mp: working girl works. twelve a day every day, not "oh i was in this ambiguous situation about paying the toll at the booth once"
phf: we have a particular friend hoe. she's fucked up most of the time (alcohol and psychedelics), traveled across the world off the money she makes. running joke is that she's taken over by ishtar, and she's having all these crazy amazing experiences while being only half conscious of it. "got fucked up in mumbai, ended up in a hat of a holy man in himalayas. good lay. xoxo" etc.
js-of-mp: << do you prefer auslander ? or what is it in berlin idish, "tourist" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:06 erlehmann: i think it is fairly plausible that the description of “orcs” can be read as some kind of blatant racism – “black-skinned”, “brutish”, “slant-eyed” …
js-of-mp: phf: haha nb.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:09 Framedragger: rehashing *conclusions* of tmsr dogma does not do much good. (i guess counter to that is "we don't have time for proper free education", which is fair).
erlehmann: js-of-mp i don't particularly care. germans weirdly enough use “refugees” (older german: „flüchtling“ newer german: “geflüchtete”). i finally understood the orc metaphor, that was the point of the statement.
js-of-mp: <<< aaahahaha championship sendoff entry.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:11 trinque: y'all can go hang out with Isis Hackersauce in Berlin
js-of-mp: erlehmann: there's no real spec to orcdom, visually, beyond "no good". it's actually a pretty interesting concept, anthropologically, because of its marked similarities to beauty.
js-of-mp: ie, aculturated agents claim awareness can't meaningfully produce ideal etc.
erlehmann: next up: Framedragger comes to town, ends up in bed with jacob applebaum, writes seven blog posts about it because that is what j.k. rowling did (right?).
asciilifeform: in iirc old trilema it was proposed as 'people with no indoorvoice'
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 17:52 js-of-mp: erlehmann: there's no real spec to orcdom, visually, beyond "no good". it's actually a pretty interesting concept, anthropologically, because of its marked similarities to beauty.
js-of-mp spent some time playing social game with this, "has green skin and long ears" "isn't that a greenskin ?" "uhhh"
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: yeah, but how visual is that.
js-of-mp: << i would. i would also describe new mexico or texas with the wetbacks as more hospitable, habitable etc than without.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:11 asciilifeform: erlehmann: would you describe germany+turks as more habitable, enjoyable, interesting place than the germany sans turks you grew up in ?
js-of-mp: note that if you can't come up with a good novel IT ISN'T THE FAULT OF THE WOMAN EMPTYING YOUR BASKET.
js-of-mp: i think every domestic slave of every cramped up writer got screamed at least once in her life out of the dude's pure frustration at his own inability.
js-of-mp: if berlin scene is dead it's not because the turks came in and did the dishes.
asciilifeform: js-of-mp: you visited the sans- ? with.. time machine?!
asciilifeform: ( re texas )
js-of-mp: my time machine works better than your c machine!
asciilifeform: apparently
trinque: it is factual that the non-pussified mexican culture is a huge boon for texas.
js-of-mp: texas sans would be ~penn.
asciilifeform thinks of mexico , inevitably immediately thinks also about icepick
js-of-mp: i really recommend hanging out with some tattood short dudes from whicever gang is locally available.
js-of-mp: you will come out with a better impression of manhood generally.
erlehmann: but why short dude?
js-of-mp: well mexicans, whadda ya want.
trinque: they work their asses off for one, and that goes straight up to the business-owner ones.
asciilifeform: betcha there are tall aztecs ~somewhere~
trinque: omg racis
js-of-mp: but we are discussing mexicans specifically.
js-of-mp: ie, hang out with puerto ricans, you're jus tseeing 2nd hand new york.
js-of-mp: and god damned their music is god-awful omfg.
erlehmann: trinque omg raCIS-male!!!
erlehmann: on that note, my pronouns are haltstopp and blitzkrieg
js-of-mp: << i collect the bottom 10% of all sorts of places. young females are eminently educable, and the poorer the better.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:15 asciilifeform: erlehmann: i enjoy a number of things, from turkish military marches to turkish sweets. but it is different q from 'do i want the bottom economic 10% of turkey moving in next door'
asciilifeform: erlehmann: mine are 'hande hoch' and русс здавайс
erlehmann: because poor → no illusions about self-worth?
js-of-mp: poverty is not some sort of predictor of prospective failure in my experience. just a summary of historical failure.
js-of-mp: erlehmann: well, not really, no. vanity comes in valupacks at any price point. but because, if nothing else, hungry.
js-of-mp: hunger is good, as it is the only true antithesis of indolence.
asciilifeform: js-of-mp collects plutonium from sea water. sailor - drowns in sea. both work with sea!111
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: so we could say that the problem wit htheir being poor is your being poor too ?
js-of-mp: this is eminently true, and especially of today's berlin.
erlehmann: asciilifeform totally unrelated, what is your opinion about compose key?
erlehmann: in terms of machine being predictable etc.
asciilifeform: erlehmann: wassat
asciilifeform: js-of-mp: was in re '10% females'
js-of-mp: no, i know. that's what i mean.
erlehmann: asciilifeform kind of mod key: 1. press compose key. 2. press at least two other keys in succession 3. get glyph that makes sense
js-of-mp: barefoot never-ever-seen-tampons female will still think highly of self in her own village.
erlehmann: asciilifeform so for example compose and - and > makes →
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i dun like modals
erlehmann: asciilifeform but compose C C C P makes ☭
asciilifeform: but matter of taste
asciilifeform: erlehmann: i'd rather hit 'altgraph meta c' and get same or etc
erlehmann: modality is limited, that's why i asked
js-of-mp: google item, mouse-paste the product!
asciilifeform: i dun like sticky modes.
erlehmann: also most compose key sequences are just overlaying of characters, compose + - makes ±
asciilifeform: erlehmann: you'd be surprised re how rarely i need or want hieroglyphs
asciilifeform: i live with cyrillic but that's it
js-of-mp: << mostly north african french from what i could discern. for some reason it was a big deal political gesture in like algiers.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 20:19 trinque: I'm still eagerly awaiting a description of these roving gangs of car burners.
js-of-mp: possibvly modern day equiv of roman "slaughtering cattle" , in the sense that car's white man's camel or something
js-of-mp: but then it got postmodernified, so not very specific anymoar.
js-of-mp: anyway, item goes around with 10-20-50 MJ, it's only sensible to try and FOAD it .
phf: (somewhat related, the battle of algiers is a cool movie on the subject of why burn cars. i suspect that same car burning tactic was later adopted by the ira)
js-of-mp: possibru
js-of-mp very far from expert on teh behaviour
asciilifeform: problem wit htheir being poor is your being poor too ? << too poor to build perfectly impermeable membrane against'em, aha
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: women exist to be used not chained up in the basement.
asciilifeform: realize, i dun want'em for anything. no more than mice, fleas
js-of-mp: and why not ?
js-of-mp: could build flea circus. you know the story of the ancient alf-sheik who had ant thread gemstone ?
asciilifeform: because не культурные
asciilifeform: i'll leave the flea circuses to magicians like js-of-mp
js-of-mp: what's the difference between that and "i won't talk to the girl at the bar because wrong kind of music is currently playing" ?
phf: my north ireland friend tells me that the burning car was a kind of symbol of terror when she was growing up. it wasn't so much about the car itself, it's the fact that around where it was burned there were probably going to be ira militants ready to "check your papers"
asciilifeform: !!up js-of-mp
deedbot: js-of-mp voiced for 30 minutes.
js-of-mp: phf: yes, it's an anti-state pillar, for sure. smoke visible from distance, etc.
asciilifeform: js-of-mp: because the wrongmusic plays not at the bar, but permanently on her face..
asciilifeform: i fucking hate cowfaces.
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: they all grip the same from behind...
asciilifeform: this - possibly
phf: driving on a one way street, through the woods, a car burning in the distance. "oh shit"
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: confounding dumb and poor is subversive in this discussion.
asciilifeform: i hear sow also quite like same from behind..
js-of-mp: who do you hear this from ?
js-of-mp: pig penis quite unlike o fman
shinohai is under tornado watch, opens a bottle of wine to celebrate ....
asciilifeform: this yes. figured in one of lomachinsky's anatomist tales even
js-of-mp: in proper tornado, bottle drinks you!
asciilifeform currently marveling at the turdworldification of nyc
mod6: hah
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 22:07 asciilifeform: << where did the butthurt go when kraken, shitfinex, et al did same thing?
asciilifeform: crumbling cement absolutely everywhere
asciilifeform: sewer gas also
js-of-mp: asciilifeform: backm in the 80s, the fashionable thing to say was "the city's a toilet, moving to whiteplains". well... THEY HAD NO IDEA THEN
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 22:35 Framedragger unrelatedly recalls placing orders on mtgox and getting multi-minute+ lags
asciilifeform: goxlag archipelag!111
js-of-mp: << not a matter of copyright. there's specific protections, you can't make the jodie foster foundation etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 01:35 asciilifeform: re knuth... names ain't, afaik, copyrightable anywhere, even in usa.. so i half expect to live to see a 'mircea popescu foundation' run by, e.g., malia obummer, which funds transsexualized rust programming for systemd plugins
asciilifeform: can if you find 'own' jodie f, neh?
asciilifeform: 'not this mircea, that one'
js-of-mp: ah, that iirc already exists, wikitards found some $rando.
js-of-mp: amusement of the week
asciilifeform: aha! so it'll be 'his' foundation
js-of-mp: lol, the dubious fortune of being also called pacepa.
asciilifeform: whossat
js-of-mp: highest ranking deserter in eastern bloc, ro spymaster
asciilifeform: ah hm him
js-of-mp: << aha. the summer of forks caught a little bit of a spell of relfection, ended up hitting home.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 04:59 pete_dushenski: turns out it's quite the mish-mash out there. far from the taught controversy of reddit : "uasf" vs "core" vs "blockstream" . pretty much none of the software versions you read about anywhere outside #t are actually the ones in use.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-23 06:01 ben_vulpes: what is protocol for bot voice? mimisbrunnr now has a use for that.
js-of-mp: can voice self whenevers.
js-of-mp: aaand with that, i shall bid you lot a very good weekend and laters!
ben_vulpes: yeah, Framedragger got me ther
shinohai: Hasta luego js-of-mp
asciilifeform: goodnight js-of-mp
ben_vulpes: bit of state to manage, since the thing sits in umpteen channels with umpteen different voice models
ben_vulpes: later!
trinque: js-of-mp: cya!
BingoBoingo: Now to wait and see if key holding mp comes back to confirm autheticity of jaguar spirit, lest jaguar spirit be some sort of shitty chameleon spirit
lobbes: or lest Jaguar Spirit MP be some sort of Javascript MP. Stay tuned to find out, folx!
BingoBoingo: Well the spirit identified as jaguar
BingoBoingo: Have to assume it is because of the fyiad rule
shinohai: We could have easily determined if it was javascript MP by asking it to return random integers.
shinohai: I pushed for them to name it after Preet, but failed:
lobbes: in other news, I'm happy to report my FUCKGOATS has arrived!
lobbes: I plan to wrap my brain around, and then run the recommended tests; will report results once I do
asciilifeform: congrats lobbes !!
mod6: lobbes: cool!
sina: mornin tmsr
mod6: how goes/
sina: mod6: heya, not too bad, working on a gossipd impl!
sina: been working on it all week really
sina: lots of fun
sina: its not finished yet, but I just completed the "server" portion of the daemon the next piece is to start on the "client" that connects to peers, generates RSA keys, sends bogus challenges
shinohai applauds sina for not writing it in golang ....
sina: lol
sina: shinohai: I was definitely thinking about it. there is a lot to be said for the strong typing and forced error checking which makes the program more robust
sina: anyway I am hoping to have a decent complete implementation done by tomorrow-ish
sina: heh
sina: I need to complete the client part for that so I can flesh out the key handling
trinque: what you've got there looks like a tcp-gpg-wad hucker
sina: I'm working on the spec per the blog post, the thread had a lot of stuff on which there wasn't a consensus yet
trinque: cool, was just curious which gossipd you meant.
sina: trinque: is there anything from the thread you think was agreed that materially modifies the spec in post? I figured mp would have updated if so
sina: yeah fair
sina: going to get some food and chill out for a bit, any feedback would be appreciated
trinque: there was for example the lighthouse concept; asciilifeform has also spoken of using the luby fountain algorithm over iirc either udp or raw IP packets.
trinque: !#s luby
trinque: guy can speak for himself, but I'm sure these items await his "P"
trinque: doesn't prevent anybody else from fiddling in his own shop
sina: ah yeah I do remember reading the lighthouse comments
sina: trinque: my problem is I don't have an original bone in my body, so short of a well described (enough) spec I have a lot of trouble
sina: my impl is more "hey, here is a spec I can implement for some funtimes" than "hey, here is a useful thing"
sina: just going through those comments again trinque, e.g. "One possible cut of the Gordian Knot re: my "enemy's ability to trigger a response from a suspected-node on demand" would be for every node to have a "lighthouse" - an always-on broadcaster of authentication challenge strings." per the spec I will be implementing this
sina: "Unsolicited challenge strings will also be sent, at intervals and to destinations specified by the operator."
sina: although tbh I don't fully understand the purpose because if someone is watching the wire, they will see the session never gets fully established
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