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trilemaasciilifeformossasepiapizarroeuloraspyked
1m22h 40m1m6d 2h 45m1d 4h 43m1d 5h 29m
Pizarro



BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661370 << They do indeed. Three point hitch. For small applications sleeve hitch and weight work.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 01:44 mircea_popescu: plowing tractors have special hydraulics to keep it in. lot of force, more than the pull.
BingoBoingo: lol, gabriel proposes alf secretary for a single benji while declining recurring and unbounded income to audience he proposed
trinque: pretty sure the chatter about this or that grandiose item is the whole bag.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661455 << ahahaha sec!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:08 mod6: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p Let me know how much entropy you'd like, I'll run ent test & dieharder against it, let you decide if you want it. I'll ask 0.1 BTC per Gb. What is your bid?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661461 << boatwright will still require good quality wood, and other things. and making a boat (unless it's viking style, which is no good in ocean) requires ~a lifetime. the limit on the age of sail was early industrial process.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:16 asciilifeform: exactly like how mircea_popescu gets food finer than the finest, costliest cook could reliably make for him for money
mircea_popescu: basically you picked the simplest one thing that dun work.
mircea_popescu: no man ever made a galleon, you understand, nor a manowar. these are made by 100s of people labouring over long hard years.
mircea_popescu: what man can make with own two hands i have seen, it's a pleasure to ride, it sells for loads of money, but to fuck in the thing you have to be young and she has to be flexible.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661567 << this has something to do with how http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661230
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:55 asciilifeform: funny how folx will spend quadrillions on idiot veblenisms and 0 on actual quality.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 00:56 asciilifeform: those aristos died of stupidity-- thinking that they were exempt from having to learn about money, similarly to modern brahmins 'exemption' from crypto
mircea_popescu: those dudes DID in fact pursue all sorts of (their version of) actual quality.
mircea_popescu: but had no clue of money.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661455 << ahahaha sec! << heheh, think it's a bad idea?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:08 mod6: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p Let me know how much entropy you'd like, I'll run ent test & dieharder against it, let you decide if you want it. I'll ask 0.1 BTC per Gb. What is your bid?
mod6: Anyway, for that kinda asking price, i'd figure he could buy a bunch for himself anyway.
BingoBoingo: But will he ever see the numbers YOURS produced in that GB?
BingoBoingo: How many eons will he have to run his many potential FG to collide over a GB of data yours produced?
BingoBoingo: How many universes will be born and die in that time"
BingoBoingo: ?
mod6: ya lost me there.
mod6: anyway, the -otc days maybe came and went a long time ago. so gabriel_laddel_p might be sol.
mod6: anyway, im wiped.
mod6: night!
trinque: "Suggested for you ?? Houston's top prostitution hot spots" >> not bad, google news
trinque: finally worth a damn
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661290 << i can relate (in that I hate this world and everybody in it -- really. everybody. to be alone and sustaining would be heaven), and the answer is the Bible. I'm not saying you should stop doing the great work that you do. but that there is relief in the way you dream of in the world that is to come, if you are made to believe. If God could change my mind on this matter (which he did, i wa
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 01:15 asciilifeform: 100% physically closed cycle, motherfuckers, on mars, if i could!1111
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661461 << i eat this well. I buy food at the "oh that's too expensive" health food store (rather than the chain super market), and I cook it all myself (which I am very good at). It is expensive, sorta -- if you don't factor in the health care I don't have to pay for (because I don't get sick). if i ever found a girl worth marrying i could easily teach her how to do same, and have similar setup to
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:16 asciilifeform: exactly like how mircea_popescu gets food finer than the finest, costliest cook could reliably make for him for money
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Do you grow any portion of your own food yet?
danielpbarron: no
BingoBoingo: It's an enjoyable past time. Plants take manure up front, but composted so less smell. Livestock constantly produces fresh smelly manure on the other avenue.
danielpbarron: the way i figure, i'm locked into this undesirable location enough with what technical goods i possess. if it got so bad i couldn't buy proper raw ingredients anymore, i'd be better off moving elsewhere anyway, which i would like to do before such an extreme situation
danielpbarron: but shopping and cooking takes a lot of time from my day. i'm sure gardening would take more time than my shopping
BingoBoingo: Still, an indeterminate type tomato in a planter is hard to turn into a -ev proposition. "Juliet" cultivar in a 14 inch container produces a lot of produce
shinohai: Tomatoes (or the smallest of gardens, for that matter) have never been -ev thing for me, ever.
danielpbarron: that's true, i could probably do tomato with ease. and I recently got into making my own red sauce so this might be worth considering
BingoBoingo: And if it exceeds parachute's weight limit, minimal pain should you abandon it.
danielpbarron: what do you recommend for seed sources?
BingoBoingo: Look into Juliet, San Marzano, and Roma in that order.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Burpee's fine
danielpbarron: hm, ok
BingoBoingo: For seed sources you just want true to type, high germination rate, and no shitty extras
BingoBoingo: This late in the season in your neck of the woods probably safest to get a plant that's already started. One or two of the ubiquitous "Bonnie" 4 in peat pot starter plants would be fine and run ~2.50-4 USD a piece and give you a roughly 2 month head start.
BingoBoingo: At that size it will have outgrown any objectionable pesticides by the time its fruiting
BingoBoingo: And starting seeds can swiftly turn into the expensive part of very small scale tomato'ing
diana_coman: planted cucumbers and the like last year simply for the child to see; not a lot of time spent on it, no
BingoBoingo: Nice
diana_coman: fwiw I have yet to meet someone who cooks for themselves who doesn't consider they cook "very well" (or better); it's when cooking for others that one can really tell whether they are good at it or not
BingoBoingo: anything come out of the sukes?
BingoBoingo: *cukes?
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, hm?
BingoBoingo: The cucumbers? Were any eaten?
diana_coman: ha ha, of course; kid got them from the plant, washed, ate, what
BingoBoingo: Awesome.
danielpbarron: yes that's true. when scaling up the ratios have to change a little.
danielpbarron: but i have made food for others and they agree it is good
danielpbarron: one of which is in the WoT
diana_coman: good; I'm just a bit surprised of all the emphasis here on ...cooking, lol; granted, I grew up with cooking being just usual everyday thing to do, just like waking up, washing etc but still
danielpbarron: also, i have eaten at every restaurant worth the mention in this state and i can say honestly my food is on par or better than the top three
diana_coman: and yes, 4 year old child routinely helps in the kitchen too, not a big deal; cutting stuff, mixing dough etc
danielpbarron: which perhaps says more of the horrible state of restaurants in this area. it shouldn't be the case that i can produce better than the professionals
diana_coman: I would agree with that, yes
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, the cucumber plant was actually quite a hero: made dozens of cucumbers BUT it grew them to full size/ripened them *one at a time*; not an easy task apparently to make wholesome things even under rather favourable conditions as it were
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA0E14A40E2D0C353FF9EFD8008DE6D88BB77D8EF900D6E1C0A8E319D83C2C6F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 29438546853896140597050345206079 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Charly Avital (Test2) <shavital@mac.com>; '
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661582 << this is screamingly irrelevant to modern world -- why the everliving fuck would i want to use wood ?! or to cut it by hand?!!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 05:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661461 << boatwright will still require good quality wood, and other things. and making a boat (unless it's viking style, which is no good in ocean) requires ~a lifetime. the limit on the age of sail was early industrial process.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661585 << these 'long hard years' people did not have laser cutters, water-jet cutters, ABS plastic & other modern nearly-indestructible (and intrinsically-buoyant ! in some cases) materials
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 05:33 mircea_popescu: no man ever made a galleon, you understand, nor a manowar. these are made by 100s of people labouring over long hard years.
asciilifeform: they did not have modern metallurgy, either ( there are metals that will laugh at a thousand years of salt water, e.g. hastelloy )
asciilifeform: all of this -- exists. and it did not, 100 yrs ago.
asciilifeform: hull, for instance, can be from epoxy.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661586 << you won't see a plastic boat , or one that is 8m wide, or pykrete, or any of the other technologies eschewed by the veblenists
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 05:34 mircea_popescu: what man can make with own two hands i have seen, it's a pleasure to ride, it sells for loads of money, but to fuck in the thing you have to be young and she has to be flexible.
asciilifeform: but there is nothing physically impossible about these.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661641 <<>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661462
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:41 danielpbarron: which perhaps says more of the horrible state of restaurants in this area. it shouldn't be the case that i can produce better than the professionals
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 03:17 asciilifeform: there is ~nothing~ that can remotely hold a candle to craftsmanship-with-your-own-hands-for-your-own-fucking-self
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661644 << i probably oughta pollard-rho these and be done with it
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 11:18 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA0E14A40E2D0C353FF9EFD8008DE6D88BB77D8EF900D6E1C0A8E319D83C2C6F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 29438546853896140597050345206079 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Charly Avital (Test2) <shavital@mac.com>; '
asciilifeform: right now an entire day in the week is reversed for '8ball', and the result is always these, 'make the rubble bounce'
asciilifeform: imho it's a waste ( and it eats entire cpu core at all times also )
mircea_popescu: possibly yeah
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, dontcha wonder what ELSE will break when i pollard-rho and pollard-rhominusone ?! )
asciilifeform: all them folx who skimped on 'test p-1 and q-1'
mircea_popescu: could be interesting.
mircea_popescu: does sound like a better use of resources than further increasing 8ball.
asciilifeform: it's in the pipeline.
mircea_popescu: it's utility is mostly for small (ie, under 10^9 or something) factors imo
asciilifeform: more interestingly,
asciilifeform: there is a variant where you nail large-factored N, where p*q=n and p-1 or q-1 have small factors.
mircea_popescu: sure, complete description of already found vulnerable mods can't hurt.
asciilifeform: theoretically this set will include some (largeprime)*(largeprime) folx.
asciilifeform: who won't be killed in any other way.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661592 << not in principle. maybe the reserve is a little high, maybe the concept is too soon ; certainly he can't pay and it's somewhat dubious to explain why he should. but hey, gotta start sometime/somehow/somewhere.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 07:36 mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661455 << ahahaha sec! << heheh, think it's a bad idea?
asciilifeform: ( after this, we can plug in gpg-on-winblowsrng and enumerate the set, then bust these... )
mircea_popescu: now THAT would be interesting.
mircea_popescu: debian is one thing. wintel... lolk.
mircea_popescu: i reallty wanna see if each and every eulora player actually gargles water.
asciilifeform: i've been exploring subj as part of the shitoshi question.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661594 << no but see, it's more of a trade barrier than anything. the whole point of geting preexisting data was that it'd be faster and cheaper than buying chip ; and since you already have it ...
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 07:36 mod6: Anyway, for that kinda asking price, i'd figure he could buy a bunch for himself anyway.
asciilifeform: microshit's rng has (as of xp3) 0 hardware component.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitely worth running on some of the more ocmmon luser architectures. very likely to discover 65536 wide keyspaces and shit.
asciilifeform: entirely function of something like 700 bytes of userland.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661604 << how's houston prostitution go ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 08:07 trinque: finally worth a damn
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661605 << wtf do i do now. was the line cut in the original also ? or did i actually an' for the first time since this thing exists lost some bits ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:09 danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661290 << i can relate (in that I hate this world and everybody in it -- really. everybody. to be alone and sustaining would be heaven), and the answer is the Bible. I'm not saying you should stop doing the great work that you do. but that there is relief in the way you dream of in the world that is to come, if you are made to believe. If God could change my mind on this matter (which he did, i wa
asciilifeform: missing in my log
asciilifeform: it got snipped.
asciilifeform: folx, don't use nonautoslicing irctrons.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you gotta have a talk with your client, it's not ok to cut your overlong sentences, must send as multiline.
asciilifeform: ( the one on crapple, is known offender )
asciilifeform: 'palaver'
mircea_popescu: it's cut everywhere. confirmed.
mircea_popescu: and in other idle chatter : http://kingsandlegends.com/ is actually quite cool. very much what a browser game should be.
mircea_popescu: not to mention, i was some variation of "LordMircea" in pretty much every game I ever played since forever, cuz wtf you gonna do for a nick. eventually, nel mezzo del camin, reality actually alligned, and the fantastic pseudonym became simply descriptive. what can you do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661612 << depends. a pig sty is no one's idea of a good time (well, with exceptions i think we have illustrated in the logs) ; but something like your own orchard is very strictly speaking land improvement, about same value as a pool (larger footprint though). they were used as such by the romans in their estate retreats, there's extant manuals, this is a well documented concept.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:27 danielpbarron: the way i figure, i'm locked into this undesirable location enough with what technical goods i possess. if it got so bad i couldn't buy proper raw ingredients anymore, i'd be better off moving elsewhere anyway, which i would like to do before such an extreme situation
mircea_popescu: vegetable garden is a lot more fun if you make girls work it naked. i would rate such an item above the orchard.
mircea_popescu: between these two, you've covered the (imo) proper and useful homemade substitution in the food chain. nothing wrong with buying meat from the butcher -- tho it helps immensely if he's an actual butcher, as opposed to an employee of some franchise.
mircea_popescu: this being the major consideration -- i hire a lawyer, i don't retain a law firm. i work with accountants, not with ernst and fucking young. i much prefer to interface with the "criminals" doing actual personal banking for customers (you know, "money laundering" folks, also mentioned in say http://trilema.com/2013/what-the-drug-trade-is-how-the-drug-trade-works-and-why-silk-road-didnt-work-and-didnt-matter/#selection-63.559-6
mircea_popescu: 3.677 ) rather than the idiot banks. and so on and so following, the key imo is to trade with independents rather than corporations.
mircea_popescu: and my idea, somewhat in the vein of http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ and more generally bitcoin, is that if you stick to it, corporations wil lwither and die. they're one of those evils which can only breathe for as long as good men do nothing.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i have nfi who trb node 208.94.240.42 belongs to, but it's been stuck in the 300,000s for ~ages~
asciilifeform: at least several months, i think
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661616 << sauce, incidentally, is the killer. don't eat the shop shit, no matter whjat it is. homemade mayo takes five minutes once you learn how to make it ; white sauce is extremely easy to make, if scary ; tomato sauce certainly doable esp if you have a sane electric stovetop. that is ALL the sauces, everything else is combinations.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:29 danielpbarron: that's true, i could probably do tomato with ease. and I recently got into making my own red sauce so this might be worth considering
mircea_popescu: i do buy worchestershire, in fairness, but that's not properly speaking a sauce.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, in greece, https://archive.is/lLLfT >> '...the tax authorities will be able to issue online confiscation notices and immediately get their hands on the contents of safe deposit boxes, confiscating cash, precious stones, jewelry and so on. They will also be able to confiscate shares and other securities.'
mircea_popescu: whereas all prepackaged sauce is the same endless variation of "let's see which ways we could flavour margarine / substitutes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lel.
asciilifeform: this in re 'what happens when you use banks'
mircea_popescu: venezueece.
mircea_popescu: eh, i've yet to meet a greek that used their banks.
mircea_popescu: maybe i don't get out enough.
asciilifeform: for all i know, it's the american expats, who do it
asciilifeform: there are idiots anywhere.
mircea_popescu: prolly. or russian.
mircea_popescu: though from experience russians a) never go alone (unless female, in which case they dun keep the money there anyway, if they ever get it) ; b) sorta delegate one to keep the dough.
mircea_popescu: basically, the russians are jews.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661628 << ahahaah this is true innit.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:35 diana_coman: fwiw I have yet to meet someone who cooks for themselves who doesn't consider they cook "very well" (or better); it's when cooking for others that one can really tell whether they are good at it or not
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661640 << are you kidding me, i loved to fuck around the kitchen with my mom at that age. made all sorts of engineer pies, too!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:41 diana_coman: and yes, 4 year old child routinely helps in the kitchen too, not a big deal; cutting stuff, mixing dough etc
mircea_popescu: i suspect it should go in the "normal development handbook", 4-5 yo with no interest in mother kitchen activities is prolly under 80 iq.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661639 << wait, in ~connecticut~ ? they have pretty decent restaurants there, which were the top 3 ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:40 danielpbarron: also, i have eaten at every restaurant worth the mention in this state and i can say honestly my food is on par or better than the top three
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661643 << that's how they do it, like sicilians marry off the daughters.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 09:48 diana_coman: BingoBoingo, the cucumber plant was actually quite a hero: made dozens of cucumbers BUT it grew them to full size/ripened them *one at a time*; not an easy task apparently to make wholesome things even under rather favourable conditions as it were
jurov: *sigh* i keep getting calls from an UK number, as far as I understand, he's asking something about coinbr, when I ask them to come to irc/email he just says thank you. can't even fucking text, and not possible to call back
mircea_popescu: weird.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661645 << because a) wood is still, to this day, the better material for the purpose, in the sense lee sedol is the better go player. note that these WERE YOUR OWN CONSTRAINTS! you despise "made to rust iron bottoms", which is outright idiotic but in the common vein of "alf has no clue but figures he can have oppinion". you do not wish to pay the price of industrial process. you stirctly spe
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 13:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661582 << this is screamingly irrelevant to modern world -- why the everliving fuck would i want to use wood ?! or to cut it by hand?!!
mircea_popescu: raking said "i will use nothing but wood" yourself, as such.
mircea_popescu: and because b) everything else is harder to work with.
mircea_popescu: gotta decide if your idea is "nothing can beat self-same craftsmanship and i am willing to sink in the time" OR "i will sink in no time, give me whatever trhe fuck it is that takes no time and effort".
mircea_popescu: you can't have both of these at the same time, and duck behind one or the other depending which vein of solutions for your entirely psychogenic issue masquerading orally as a "technical problem" are being suggested.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661725 <- ofc he loves it; I suspect it's more about having a mother who ...cooks, you know; and in general the interest thing is really more like interest in ~anything close adult does
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 14:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661640 << are you kidding me, i loved to fuck around the kitchen with my mom at that age. made all sorts of engineer pies, too!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yup. also in the strange properties of materials. i once spent a half hour pouring water from one reciipeint to another.
mircea_popescu: i think i was about 4.
diana_coman: oooh, yeah, did that playing with water and ~all pots and pans and anything else we could find, yeah; and he plays a LOT with water & ice, pouring&smashing etc
mircea_popescu: good, let him do it, that's one mess actually worth cleaning up.
diana_coman: not even a mess, he's good with it : on top of bath tub
diana_coman: he hates mess, lol
mircea_popescu: lol sounds like you got a Framedragger in your hands.
diana_coman: lol! neah, he's just... rather strict
mircea_popescu: are you encoraging teh tendency ?
diana_coman: no, not at all
diana_coman: but he is what he is and it's not as if I don't know the thing
mircea_popescu: is entirely undecided whether it's good or bad trait.
diana_coman: quite on the contrary really - I rather push so that he sees alternatives are also *possible and fine*
diana_coman: not against it as such, but as ...alternative; not the end of the world etc
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661647 << neither do you. for that matter, these are not actually useful for craftsman ; they are useful for mass producer.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 13:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661585 << these 'long hard years' people did not have laser cutters, water-jet cutters, ABS plastic & other modern nearly-indestructible (and intrinsically-buoyant ! in some cases) materials
mircea_popescu: diana_coman a yeah, makes sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the places where craftsmanship makes sense are eg the tomato planters discussed above. yes they have tractors that plow, but these tractors do not plow planters. EXACT same principle applies making boats -- or for that matter silicone. you somehow seem to understand that if you want "artisanal computer" the correct approach is mechanical calculator ; and if you want oceanworth computer gotta have the foundry, ra
mircea_popescu: ther than some bits and pieces of a foundry installed in your kitchen.
mircea_popescu: boats are exactly thje same, which is why my http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661584 comment.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 05:33 mircea_popescu: basically you picked the simplest one thing that dun work.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can get plastic panels from foundry.
mircea_popescu: as a substitute of drywall.
mircea_popescu: they're not rated for the fucking ocean.
asciilifeform: as substitute for idiot veblenwood.
asciilifeform: abs is ~indestructible.
mircea_popescu: plastic IS used in boatsmaking, but it is specially made plastic, for the purpose.
asciilifeform: as for epoxy, it is same one as in everybody's toolbox.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform problem is not how destructibvle it is, problem is that it's ~unjoinable. plastic boarts are generaslly whole hull.
asciilifeform: join with epoxy.
mircea_popescu: glhf.
asciilifeform: can buy by the tonne.
mircea_popescu: one day i want to see your "plain glass lenses cemented with cyanoacrylate -- it's transparent!!1" collection of telescopes.
mircea_popescu: i bet it shows one hell of an astronomical world.
asciilifeform: aaactually
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-13#1655405 <<
a111: Logged on 2017-05-13 22:02 asciilifeform: and holyfuq, the norland thing took almost hour of uv to cure, vs the advertised 10sec
asciilifeform: point is, i can and do routinely make, with own hands, items otherwise thought to be 'megabux, megawatt' ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 )
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron)
asciilifeform: all you gotta do is to piss on 'best practice'.
mircea_popescu: there's no argument against that ; nor is there any argument against the principle.
mircea_popescu: but just because you're the prince of alflandia does not mean you can simply walk into an unknown barrio and talk smack at the locals.
mircea_popescu: which is what you're doing. you wanna go there, go there. intel, muscle, the works.
asciilifeform: at the veblenwood folx? yes i can.
mircea_popescu: no, at the "boat making" folks.
asciilifeform: they're ridiculous.
asciilifeform: golden toilet people.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what veblenwood is supposed to be, nor is it part of this conversation.
asciilifeform: the wood that a proper boat supposedly 'must' be made of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'll need more basis for that besides "i'm alf and i dun like it". the ocean's been there longer than you have.
asciilifeform: instead of abs.
mircea_popescu: how did you pick abs rather than i dunno, duralumin ?
mircea_popescu: this bad habit of having a firm idea of the solution to a problem you don't either understand or bother specifying.
asciilifeform: cuts with laser economically.
asciilifeform: and -- floats.
asciilifeform: unsinkable.
mircea_popescu: oh i see, you're one of those, will build spaceship out of cheese and power with fresh milk because you got a dairy farm ?
mircea_popescu: vorwarts, soviet!
jurov: why they don't build houses with plastic sheets and epoxy, then?
mircea_popescu: jurov or girlfriends.
asciilifeform: jurov -- i live in a mostly plastic house..
mircea_popescu: and love it.
mircea_popescu: oh wait, you don't love it, but it's cheap.
mircea_popescu: o no wait, it's not cheap either.
mircea_popescu: alfie... you gots a problem here.
asciilifeform: not cheap because lizards pocket the cost diff
asciilifeform: strictly.
mircea_popescu: you mean the same lizards who provide the fire dept services your "house" utterly needs ?
mircea_popescu: tell you what, if boats were made of plastic the MTBS would be a week, and the "lizards" runnin the coast guard would charge you.
asciilifeform: lolneeds, if it ever caught fire, poseidon could not put it out.
mircea_popescu: next one over.
asciilifeform: same.
mircea_popescu: no. this is what fd does in "ourdemocracy" : like in latin empire, demolishes the one on fire to save the ones not yet caught.
mircea_popescu: and they ALSO charge what that cost in rome. ~whole value of house.
mircea_popescu: things work the way they work because that's the way they work not because alien dragons from outer space.
asciilifeform: crypto. QED
jurov: btw, why not just raft from pet bottles?
asciilifeform: jurov: trololol
mircea_popescu: ostensibly doesn't fit a queen bed.
asciilifeform: or keep books dry.
mircea_popescu: though honestly, could also be made of pet bottles, arranged the other way. that'd help buoyancy!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform get larger pets for books.
mircea_popescu: could build an entire ~sub, nothing but bottles
mircea_popescu: truly unsinkable, also, because so what if you lose a few cells.
asciilifeform: if this is an argument, bottle is a boat
mircea_popescu: this is way the fuck better than anything you came up with so far, and we're not even trying. nor pretending to be keeping a blog about it, a la orlol.
asciilifeform: saying dun make it so.
mircea_popescu: yeah, exactly.
asciilifeform: fact : boat != wood, and din have to cut by hand.
mircea_popescu: eh, again with this. no, boat != wood. boat AS DEFINED BY ALF, however, = wood.
asciilifeform: 'what i say 3 times is true', classic mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: remember ? you didn't like the correct solution (metal) because... you don't have a cnc mill. and that's a fucking criteria in design now, what the fuck engineer has lying about and perceives underutilized, esp if he happens to thin kit's cvool.
asciilifeform: because rust
mircea_popescu: then you come and whine about all the boost in bitcoin and all the java everywhere. guess what ? they were building alfboatsd
mircea_popescu: abs floats!!1
asciilifeform: aerated.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because your brain dun work. half the roofs in the world are made of metal, no rust. if you get operated on they'll uyse what, fucking abs tools ? "oh, can cut with laser!11"
mircea_popescu: industrial corrosive contaioners are all metal, from 10 gallon milk jugs to what have you. rust my fucking left food omfg.
asciilifeform: teflonated, mir
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:
mircea_popescu: hurr durr. buy a teflonating laser.
mircea_popescu: it'll be better for boatbuilding than the plastic cutting item.
asciilifeform: it doesn't hurt to do yer homework
mircea_popescu: dude...
asciilifeform: also i did not specify which laser. point is that it does not take '100 men, for years'
mircea_popescu: what doesn't ?
asciilifeform: boat
asciilifeform: of any reasonable size
phf: afaik they already build boats out of abs (cheap leisure boats, entry level yachts, as well as high end competitive stuff). in all cases it's different abs, and not necessarily stuff you buy from conveyer (stuff you buy from conveyer cracks)
mircea_popescu: the actual yacht which you can actually keep fucktoys on, which costs about 5 to 10 mn, does in point of fact take the labour of a thousand men over their lives. except we got tools to do it faster and cheaper.
mircea_popescu: phf no dude, you gotta do your homework.
mircea_popescu: to qualify in an argument with a fellow who routinely proceeds to idiocy on the level of "metal rusts" and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: and the most bitter fruit of this entire tree of idiocy being that in six months to a year, we'll be right back to "oh, orlol boat and lizzards are keeping the hydrogen engine under wraps".
phf: i know i know, this thread is extremely frustrating. it's your classic armchair trolling "if i was building my way would totally work" well build then "i don't have time to deal with this stuff, but everyone else is an idiot"
asciilifeform: detension with al rods, ferroconcrete style. no cracks.
mircea_popescu: you can't buy this off the shelf. panels my foot. which is WHY http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661768
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 14:52 mircea_popescu: plastic IS used in boatsmaking, but it is specially made plastic, for the purpose.
mircea_popescu: and no, you're not going to come off the cuff with something meaningful to say in that converesation, because you have no clue about the design space or the constraints. exactly like i have to tell you how a fucking tractor works to plow a fucking field. and so fucking on.
asciilifeform: has mircea_popescu ever built so much as a dog house with own hands?
mircea_popescu: no. but i have bought, you understand, BOUGHT boats and land and farms and horses and people and everything else. and i dun fucking like being george costanza, for random idiots to sell me "johnson rods" while fixing my car. so i spent my life essentially building endless lengthy lists of how everything works and why., EVERYTHING.
mircea_popescu: it may not be the end all be all, but if you fail to impress me with your idea, you don't have an idea. absolute minimum bar, the master's eye which fattens the cows.
asciilifeform: bought, bought, and therefore toilet MUST be gold
mircea_popescu: no. bought and for this purpose i have at least the basic idea of how shit works, and why. because i gotta know why am i paying this much.
asciilifeform: recall story of bauxite ?
mircea_popescu: which one ?
asciilifeform: aluminum going from preciousmetal to dirt
asciilifeform: sometimes 'pay so much' simply because this leap not yet made in $domain.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, the leap in domain was not made by courtiers sitting around going "i bet you could totally use the philosopher\s stone to make aluminum cheap"
mircea_popescu: as i said, the principle of technical improvements isn't at issue here. your miserable discoursive and i'm starting to fear mental habits are.
asciilifeform: how about mircea_popescu's mental habit of believing that the gods themselves made the sea as a toy for the rich,
asciilifeform: and that necessarily znO
asciilifeform: NO plastic devised,
asciilifeform: can change it
mircea_popescu: just consider the sad circumstance that you don't like x because of y property you happen to have heard of ; but you have no clue z has problem p. as a for instance, nobody seems to have ever mentuioned to you that plastic boats have a very fixed "open sea" time. and if you knew what it was you wouldn't like it. which is why rich people still buy wood yachts for pleasure.
mircea_popescu: which is also why whenever the boat is intended to stay unattended in blue water for mn seconds sort of thing, it's always metal.
mircea_popescu: and so on.
asciilifeform: 'maersk' et al are of steel because mass of containers
asciilifeform: not because steel endures in water ( wouldn't for a week, without plastic paint )
mircea_popescu: a boat a certain size has a certain mass. this is not related to anything else.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're taking a child's view of water. it's not the fucking proofing that's at issue, is structural problems induced by having a force vectror that's substantial, constant, and randomly changing direction. that's why metal excels, it can take random load like that. plastic can't. wood soprt-of can, maybe.
asciilifeform: plastic reinforced with, e.g., al, internally, can
asciilifeform: same as ferroconcrete.
asciilifeform: this however is a political thread : it is not because of mircea_popescu's deep study of plastics, and the strain forces exerted by the sea, that he takes his position, but because This Has Always Been And Therefore Must Always Be .
mircea_popescu: ferroconcrete deals with wind. plastic reinforced in the (expensive!) manner you describe might very well lose adherence because too much variance between the plastic and the spines, you'll end up with it being raked, practicvally. which is the point of the lens cement comment -- you must have VERY CLOSE materials. lest the mix gets warm or something.
asciilifeform: i know this because he did not start out with 'there exists NO suitable plastic, fool' but with vikings and galleons.
asciilifeform: brb, tea
mircea_popescu: dude i wouldn't give less of a shit, for all i care every two bit social worker case can make a pile of garbage / empty bottles and go sailing into the sunset. what's it to me ?
mircea_popescu: i turn down more invitations to yacht!!! than i accept, by a large margin, and if i go it's cuz the girls and little more. who the fuck in his right mind wants to be on the ocean idly like that. island ++ lawds have mercy.
asciilifeform: actually i gotta agree with mircea_popescu on this last one, i do not properly grasp why it is popular as a pleasure vehicle
mircea_popescu: cuz the poor man's mating strategy includes a "cop", which wortks by rarity, and an "isolate", which the ocean makes available.
asciilifeform: esp. the diesel type
asciilifeform: hm.
mircea_popescu: "hey, baby, what you doin' sat night ? wanna come to YACHT ?!?!" she's more likely to break her pomodoro dinner date to go on a yacht than vice versa. then it's a "well, i'm horny and there's only one dick here, i guess i like this guy. else i'm a whore. i'm totally not a whore though, so i really like him."
mircea_popescu: thassit.
asciilifeform: why 'poor man's' tho
asciilifeform: not exactly cheapest instrument
mircea_popescu: in all fields, whoever pays rent is the poor man.
asciilifeform: by this arg, chick is 'the rich man', pays 0..
mircea_popescu: every teen female starts life with this mindset, sure.
mircea_popescu: works out in practice as well as it does. anyway -- nothing wrong with poor man's solutions, iuf understood as such and used as part of an actually figured out plan.
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/16ccZ << qntra ?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: <jurov> why they don't build houses with plastic sheets and epoxy, then? << If alf does PVC or CPVC he can skip the epoxy and go straight to solvent welding!
mircea_popescu: the principal advantage of the garbage raft is that the broken outer cells (and they will break) provide a sort of damming for the inner cells. might be worth money, this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why not straight to pykrete.
jurov: BingoBoingo: you mean toluene?
jurov: hempcrete!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz you want to save in linens by keeping the womenz naked which means tropical waters.
mircea_popescu: god help tyou if your makeshift item catches an arctic storm.
asciilifeform: pycrete battleship lasts for months at room temp, unplugged
asciilifeform: ( as was found during the prototype run )
mircea_popescu: oh, you only wanted to sail for months ? i had nfi.
asciilifeform: don't unplug.
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: now, how many watts it takes to keep the thing solid, asciilifeform does not know
asciilifeform: it will vary with size/shape.
asciilifeform: and sea temp.
mircea_popescu: well, you know the phase heat of water, so...
asciilifeform: pykrete ain't ice though, the sawdust is strong insulator
mircea_popescu: alf will bombard maryland from atop his nuclear pykrete submersible aircraft.
asciilifeform: seadirigible.
asciilifeform: subterrine.
jurov: (*) submersible only once
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: subterrine de gascogne!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the wood that a proper boat supposedly 'must' be made of. << There are good reasons for this must. Things grow in water that eat lesser woods. Alternative is PT boat that is going to leach preservative everywhere and then get ate by the sea
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: inconel foil.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo his device wouldn't fucking dare.
jurov: petbottle raft plated with aluminium can foil, yay
asciilifeform: who said aluminum foil ?
jurov: inconel too expensive, no?
asciilifeform: expensive, but not necessarily 'too', if gives the coveted 100year hull.
asciilifeform: there's the good kind of expensive, and the raytheon kind.
mircea_popescu: eh get out, it'll separate, breach and shed.
BingoBoingo: <jurov> BingoBoingo: you mean toluene? << Whatever's in the little containers they sell at every plumbing supply store
mircea_popescu: lol check out where the political discussion was actually to be found. alf wants the elements to enlist in tmsr, help behead empire.
asciilifeform: lol
jurov: let's bikeshed this. does tmsr have a flag to put on the dirigible?
mircea_popescu: notrly ;/
BingoBoingo: Anyways, there's good reason warships are still made with steel. Resists pirate gun.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you're missing the point -- maybe there's other people on the ocean you sail on, but on the ocean alf's boat would sail on there's nobody. that's why he's even doing this, to "put distance". this can be had for the asking, because really, world wouldn't fucking dare not satisfy such perfectly reasonable request.
mircea_popescu: also crypto QED so there is that.
mircea_popescu: not like the only fucking reason we even bother with math is that UNLIKE reality, it allows for large empty spaces.
asciilifeform: fact : there is more than one way to engineer. e.g., you can engineer for rich, industrious idiots ('raytheon' style). you can engineer for rich, lazy idiots (yachts from rare woods, with diesel motor). for poor, lazy idiots: 'mass' konsoomer electronics. for poor, industrious, smart folx -- can also engineer. but ~0 precedent to work from.
mircea_popescu: the categories aren't very clearly divided in practice ; and plenty of precedent.
mircea_popescu: why we even have leather shoes, for instance.
jurov: wasn't there plenty of precedent in ostblok?
jurov: like, cars to be finished at home
mircea_popescu: of building badly designed pet projects that didn't work irl but were reported to workl anyway ? o yeah.
asciilifeform: of building items that will still work 100yrs from now when 'west' is a bad memory -- also.
asciilifeform: and jurov laughs at 'car to be finished at home', but asciilifeform is entirely willing to convert 10,000 hrs of sweat into 0rent house.
asciilifeform: if the tech existed.
mircea_popescu: generally this "Finish at home" thing is very much related to fan extraction (as per http://trilema.com/2013/youre-the-guy-who-wasnt-good-enough-to-sling-dope/#selection-73.120-73.157 ) in the sense that only items which are not actually ev are offered in this way.
mircea_popescu: at-home subsidizing. though in modernity that function is mostly covered by the inca.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, it is becoming clear that TMSR.boat prolly ought to be made out of nylon reinforced hydraulic cement with schedule 80 CPV reinforcing frame
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is only true if offered to sheeple with 0 skills
BingoBoingo: Patch with trowel
mircea_popescu: no. true universally.
asciilifeform: not everything is 'industrializable'.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if ever driven into land -- doubles as house.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform everything that is OFFERED, to all comers, to "make themselves" is, definitionally, industrializable.
BingoBoingo: AHA, Plant flag exert soverign, COLLECT RENT from occupied territory
asciilifeform: it ain't 'to allcomers' though, but to folx with skill and will to assemble the thing.
asciilifeform: ever seen a 'heathkit' ?
mircea_popescu: those are all comers.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't say "all beings" , it says "all comers". they come on their own power, they're comers.
asciilifeform: !~google heathkit
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Heathkit: <https://www.heathkit.com/>; Shop | heathkit .com: <https://shop.heathkit.com/>; Heathkit - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathkit>
mircea_popescu: if i don't have to know anything specific about you, it's not a restaurant, it's a diner ; it's not a tailor, it's a pret a porter ; and it's not a skillful product, it's an item that's not worth building.
asciilifeform: lol some modern derp bought the name?!
asciilifeform: '-ev to produce en mass for konsoomers' != 'not worth building'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu of all people oughta grasp this
asciilifeform: a kit build ( and oughta be interpreted broadly, e.g. gentoo entirely counts ) lets folx convert their otherwise not-monetizable spare time, into a product, which in many cases they could never otherwise own
asciilifeform: ( and certainly could not own in the customized form in which they get it )
asciilifeform: think, e.g., 1970s micro comps.
asciilifeform: incidentally pretty good analogy -- a handful of very rich ~and eccentric~ folx had personally-owned pdp8, say; but many in fact thought 'computer is neato, but only good for accounting, i'll buy one for office', just as mircea_popescu immediately went 'yacht is for whoring, wtf, idiot, to think of living in one'
mircea_popescu: yeah, there are exceptions, such as notably "trainer items". you can buy sportscar kits these days for instancer, so rich kids can graduate from getting lego set for 6th birthday to getting a carbox on their 16th. by the time they get it together they have a permit too.
mircea_popescu: but this is just a different kind of -ev, no more.
asciilifeform: it ain't -ev from the pov of the one doing it, tho
mircea_popescu: also, if your spare time is not monetizable you are not a person and don't belong. i don't mean here, i mean living, at all. #1 reason to off self.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is, yes. same -ev as feeding your pets is.
mircea_popescu: it may be +epv, sure, but ev is ev.
mircea_popescu: and i've yet to meet a rich dude who had kids for which i'd pay to own what he paid to build.
asciilifeform: by same logic, say, mircea_popescu drinking fine whiskey is -ev -- he ain't getting any fatter, martian farmer looking on earthlings as cattle will say 'why this fine specimen is being fed non-nutritive thing'
mircea_popescu: it is.,
mircea_popescu: which is why i don't do consumption-on-credit.
asciilifeform: and yeah sure whatevers, folx who ain't mircea_popescu and can't make thousand btc / hr by farting in spare time, 'don't belong, oughta slice lengthwise!111' sure.
asciilifeform: no thread re rent is complete without this mega-insight.
mircea_popescu: there was no consideration given to amount. the argument was qualitative not quantitative.
mircea_popescu: if you "cant" do anything useful you're ~redditard/wikipedia editor/open source contributor etc. really, no reason to be here, no room for you here, go awya.
asciilifeform: but thread wasn't re 'anything'. was re, say, 10,000 hrs, of asciilifeform -- ain't worth , per market, what a livable boat costs. whereas theoretically could kit build.
mircea_popescu: this theory is how asciilifeform pays wash dc rents, also.
asciilifeform: lol, 'be happy with your stall and hay pile, worthless cattle' ?
mircea_popescu: no. but "x dun work, y theoretically might" is how cattle ends up in ranch.
mircea_popescu: of course it theoretically might. the theory is tailored to the intended audience. "by their lights" it seems to make sense.
mircea_popescu: and note that i didn't "immediately think". you asked me "what would be point of poorman yacht" and i correctly said whoring. rich people use them for sport, but i don't see you racing your concoction. if for no other reason then because regattas are always fulla hopeful hos, and generally very crowded.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's argument was not that 'plastic is strong enough', entirely possible that suitable materials do not yet exist. but that ~NOBODY is seriously working on the problem at all. ~nothing's been seriously tried.
asciilifeform: as soon as you mention 'regatta' you're dealing with entirely opposing engineering tradeoffs.
asciilifeform: that preclude 'living boat'.
mircea_popescu: how would you know who's working on the problem ?
asciilifeform: i wouldn't. for all i know, mircea_popescu works on it, in his dirigible, and never said a word.
asciilifeform: but -- ~0 public.
mircea_popescu: i'm not, nor do i give a shit. but by some definitions of "public" (ie, i'm lazy, let it come to me) fg is also not public. whereas what people are working on is not really the public's problem anyway.
asciilifeform: fwiw google et al, see it
mircea_popescu: maybe someone somewhere is working on this, maybe they aren't, it's not the sort of question ima decide sitting here.
asciilifeform: not (yet) blackholed.
asciilifeform: ergo public.
mircea_popescu: !~google some cool item with computers and shit
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: computer desk | Cool shit I want! | Pinterest | The o'jays, Awesome ...: <https://www.pinterest.com/pin/411868328392348642/>; 30 Things To Do When you are Bored and have a Computer: <http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2010/03/30-things-to-do-when-you-are-bored-and-have-a-computer>; ​The 20 Most WTF Magical Items in Dungeons & Dragons: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently not.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: hm, while we're at it,
mircea_popescu: well ? not like you're googling them by name wtf.
asciilifeform: !~google FUCKGOATS
jhvh1: asciilifeform: i fuck goats - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DAr_ezvLRxvE>; RobustPopehatAgenda on Twitter: "If you fuck goats because it ...: <https://twitter.com/popehat/status/833525845046071297%3Flang%3Den>; # fuckgoats hashtag on Twitter: <https://twitter.com/hashtag/fuckgoats>
asciilifeform: lol!!
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is a winner
asciilifeform: apparently it took'em this long, but finally done.
asciilifeform: desaparecido, nacht und nebel.
asciilifeform: !~yandex FUCKGOATS
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Error: "yandex" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: hm, can haz?
mircea_popescu: !~google FUCKGOATS TRNG
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: # trng hashtag on Twitter: <https://twitter.com/hashtag/trng>; No Such Labs (of Phuctor fame) releases hardware TRNG | Crypto: <https://voat.co/v/Crypto/comments/1451328>; ISIS Fighters Roll Across Iraq — Until They See the Peshmerga ...: <https://news.vice.com/article/isis-fighters-roll-across-iraq-until-they-see-the-peshmerga>
mircea_popescu: it's there.
asciilifeform: lol whossat
asciilifeform: aaah
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661744 << any kid ever did not do this ?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 14:39 diana_coman: oooh, yeah, did that playing with water and ~all pots and pans and anything else we could find, yeah; and he plays a LOT with water & ice, pouring&smashing etc
jurov: http://www.bing.com/search?q=fuckgoats put nosuchlabs at first place
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: jurov: make sure to try it from a clean browser and previously-unjurov'd ip addr
mircea_popescu: microsoft likes alf, even if alf dun like it back
asciilifeform: evidently!11
jurov: i dont remember using anything microsoft from here
asciilifeform: jurov: bing per se , is the idea
jurov: http://archive.is/cEA1Q 2nd place
asciilifeform: ( incidentally every time i hear about it, i'm a little surprised that it still exists )
asciilifeform: at this point hard to be sure whether jurov sees it in 2nd place because he lives in that ip block
asciilifeform: which previously searched for $relateds, etc
jurov: no, i see it in 1st. archive.is on 2nd
asciilifeform: next you're in a new continent, jurov , try it from hotel terminal
asciilifeform: archive.is is exceptionally poor measure, by this token
asciilifeform: seen his share of 'customized search results' liquishit
jurov: why? archive.is forwards my cookies or what?
asciilifeform: jurov: no, but fetches megatonnes of tmsr-related linx
asciilifeform: every day
mircea_popescu: jurov actually does request as forwarded from your ip.
asciilifeform: e.g. every time a phuctor hit is in the l0gz
mircea_popescu: that's why iot can even see google in the first place.
asciilifeform: that's an archive.is req.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dun take my word for it, make page that returns request and archive it.
asciilifeform: actually i have dulap log on dedicated display, and every phuctor hit in l0gz is a hit from same ip, belonging to 'archive'.
asciilifeform: ( rather than to, say, deedbot )
mircea_popescu: mmm
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661674 << was thinking there, for those who would want it, a model where guy asks for N bytes of entropy via FG. would generate N bytes. base64 encode the binary entropy file (similar to trb deps), place the sha512 output hash of the base64 decoded file along with the ent & dieharder output in a clearsigned message, then PGP encrypt it to the requester.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 13:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661592 << not in principle. maybe the reserve is a little high, maybe the concept is too soon ; certainly he can't pay and it's somewhat dubious to explain why he should. but hey, gotta start sometime/somehow/somewhere.
mircea_popescu: might work as a bot service. esp once trinque finishes payments.
mod6: maybe charge by the byte, or jiggabyte. something. have to figure out what the market is willing to bear as a price tho.
asciilifeform: mod6: and the folx who didn't pay, cannot distill entropy from your ciphertext because ..?
mircea_popescu: i suspect most of the .1 btc you came up with is payment friction, rather than anything else.
asciilifeform: esp. considering that we aren't speaking of cryptographic (noshit!) entropy, but, for, e.g., montecarlo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they can distill it from their keyboard, if that's what they want.
mircea_popescu: could take the logs and sha them a billion times, whatever.
asciilifeform: no, they get ~same amount as if paid.
asciilifeform: and ~same quality.
mod6: well, i figured, im not really sure I do this anyway, but lets make a market. i'll say .1, he'll say .0001 and somewhere, we hvae price discovery.
mircea_popescu: not at all.
mircea_popescu: you don't know what stupid shit gpg does to it while encrypting.
asciilifeform: aes.
mircea_popescu: no. gpg.
mod6: anyway, just throwing it out there.
mircea_popescu: you recall, the item with the sha-1 "fingerprints" etc.
asciilifeform: which is 'whitening' if the starting material is 0000....000 , but doesn't hurt if trng.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this doesn't touch the payload
mircea_popescu: you can not promise gpg is just aes. neither can they.
asciilifeform: the payload is an aes256 of the input, key (irrelevant to this gedankenexperiment) lives in the headers yes
mircea_popescu: iuf thyey want prng, they can has. if they do not, they can has. rest is really not my problem.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: offering trng output for someone to download, for money, or otherwise, is intrinsically promisetronic
asciilifeform: he has no way of determining where or how you came up with it.
mircea_popescu: if they're happy with hash(x) can get entropy right now by curl google.com > sha512sum.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and fucking is also intrinsically promisetronic. so what of it ? most of the things we do and enjoy are founded onm promise.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i'd imagine price'd work out to somewthing like double the commercial cost of bw, or somesuch.
asciilifeform: while we're on subj, i'll say that there is probably a good reason why most commercial faux-rng makers don't offer a sample download.
mircea_popescu: maybe so.
mircea_popescu: 7393bd23794cf8175da5d2dd3f3bb47a7c340bf20cc6ef1f5dd871204119d86988e37b0e32c9b7665a05bd3912a8f83f3bebe3c2c7fc20ff177219ef35c47c25 << random number based on curl http://btcbase.org/log/ | sha512sum ; as primo as it gets!
asciilifeform: lol bitcorrelated
mircea_popescu: awww. AES!!1
asciilifeform: not so aes
asciilifeform: there are gradations of idiocy. merely re-arranging the bits does not induce correlation.
asciilifeform: where previously there was none.
asciilifeform: think, destructive vs nondestructive transform.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 i'd imagine price'd work out to somewthing like double the commercial cost of bw, or somesuch. << sure, something. > than 0 tho.
asciilifeform: neither will create entropy from thin air. but one destroys, other -- not
shinohai: Afternoon. mod6 o/
mod6: and as far as "sample" perhaps that's not how it works. maybe like via trinque's thing or something. but i agree, there is some sort of model here.
mod6: hi shinohai!
asciilifeform: mod6: whichever model you go with, beggars are probably not the target market
asciilifeform: i dun think anyone ever got rich, by pitching to'em
asciilifeform: ( though i'm prepared to hear from mircea_popescu how even this, is not so )
mod6: i can't know who would want this, but i'd imagine i wouldn't discriminate on who would want it. just as long as they PAY.
mod6: there is a bar to entry. the bar is N btc high.
mircea_popescu: might be a market in "Certified entropy" simply because of how bureaucracy works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc we had thread, las vegas runs 100% on usg-supplied prng (yes, prng) boxes, welded shut
mircea_popescu: kinda how this works. by the timpe peopple pay bots here for rng, we're simply owning the world and no more. which is why i said maybe premature.
asciilifeform: on the other, historic end of things, we have the infamous https://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418/index2.html
mod6: fair enough
asciilifeform: 'A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates' (dead tree!)
mircea_popescu: apparently worth 20 bux / mb or w/e
trinque: asciilifeform: in re beggers and target market, folks did get rich owning the world, as mircea_popescu said
mircea_popescu: pretty much only reliable way.
trinque: putting a great deal of thought into the payment thing precisely because that sort of side channel is likely to be the unwashed masses way to pay, forevermore
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate plox
mircea_popescu: likely. that , eu coppers, etcetera.
trinque: thread's been had a couple times, ^
asciilifeform: link?
mod6: yeah, could even be an eulora auction daily
trinque: lords move gold and peons move digits in db
mircea_popescu: mod6 i can't imagine lobbes 's have any issue lending the bot, once this is all in place.
mircea_popescu: it's what it's for after all.
mod6: i actually looked at it lastnight to see if I could start my own auction for this exactly.
mircea_popescu: sure you can
mircea_popescu: (auction <opening bid (coppers)> <duration (hours)> <item/lot>) -- e.g. !Qauction 3,5mn 2 57 IMP CH, d 32197 ea
mod6: put up 1.5Gb of entropy... start the bidding at say 1mn ecu
mod6: or 10mn whatever.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-10#1539113 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-10#1539116 loller
a111: Logged on 2016-09-10 03:53 trinque: there was another thread where it was discussed that the common person would merely operate out of an account held by his lord, and everyone bobbled heads at that because the framing felt good.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-10 03:53 mircea_popescu: well if it's discussed with slavegirls and a great pink fuzzy harem with soft velvety marbles and foggy complex pools... then yes@
trinque: can't find original, just a ref
trinque: this though seems in line with the fact that not everyone owns his own ass.
mircea_popescu: original is likely the trilema piece about "Future of bitcoin", predicting how people are going to do the most stuipid thing, and explaining how it's not for fucking sneakers.
trinque: aha, undoutably trilema first
mod6: and ask like that might never catch a bid, but market will meet somewhere, will sell into highest bids, etc.
asciilifeform: mod6: pretty easy to undercut to death tho
mircea_popescu: is vaguely amused at how wanna-be ronin slavegirl imagines "there's a lo of cryptocurrencies now". ie, there's n oconspiracy needed, the poor idiots will simply HALLUCINATE the poor idiot world. be it there or not.
mod6: yup. indeed. there are many fgs, and lots of enterprising people out there.
trinque: mircea_popescu: important point that, otherwise folks run around thinking bitcoin will fix all the social problems by itself.
asciilifeform: mod6: so only question of time before price goes to 0 and stays there permanently.
trinque: teh "anarchocapitalist" fucktards and so on.
asciilifeform: rather like 'price of porn'
mircea_popescu: maybe. though this would be more like "price of lap dance". which is not 0.
mod6: food for thought.
asciilifeform: lap dance works on 1 lap at a time
mod6: but it's crossed my mind a number of times since i started testing these things.
asciilifeform: montecarlo-grade rng bits -- inf.
mircea_popescu: so does signed and encrypted rng sample.
mircea_popescu: if they share them or not... hey, they don't share fucking textbooks.
asciilifeform: separate q.
mircea_popescu: point remains, you can watch some guy gettiung a lapdance for free. same here, won't have your name on it, that's all.
asciilifeform: anyone recall the ancient 'pgp key generating service' ?
shinohai: staring at teaser tits ..... "I'd like to buy your most expensive bottle of champagne"
asciilifeform: 'wallet inspector'
asciilifeform: the value of promisetronically engraved 'your name on it' is ~0.
shinohai: asciilifeform: igolder used to do that I think.
shinohai: https://www.igolder.com/PGP/generate-key/
asciilifeform: lol!
trinque: heh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perceived value is the question.
mircea_popescu: which is why the entire "own the world" item earlier.
asciilifeform: aaah 'perceived values', yes, that's three doors down from asciilifeform . right next to where they make the plastic 'bitcoins' and plastic porches etc.
asciilifeform: can't help, there.
shinohai: That entire site is a lulz farm, and was proffered as the easiest way to do gpg on reddit darknet,makets page
trinque: asciilifeform: how do you square that with other threads where "will someday be rare to own a computer"
mircea_popescu: im sure it is the easiest.
shinohai: Sure, what could possibly go wrong?
asciilifeform: trinque: that was in re industrial collapse
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i intend to be quite dead, also can't help.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure what this is about. you have some sort of objection to other people platying with the bots or ?
asciilifeform: nope.
trinque: just sounds like it comes from a notion of flat social topology
asciilifeform: but will observe that both sellers of rng bits, and esp. buyers, are a little 'off their rockers' imho.
mircea_popescu: i can conceive that i'd trust x to rng more than i'd trust myself, in some conditions.
asciilifeform: now i'm curious
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elaborate re hypothetical conditions ?
mircea_popescu: i'm somewhere with a laptop.
mircea_popescu: should i need entropy i'd rather wotbuy it than os-"make" it
mircea_popescu: not at 0.1 btc, certainly, but as mod6 points out, not 0 either.
asciilifeform: FG easily fits in sack with laptop neh.
mircea_popescu: if it did fit, it did fit, and if it didn't fit it's not there.
trinque: thread can be generalized to cost-benefit-analysis of establishing trust vs handcrafting
trinque: just like the boat thing
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: and obviously "oh but x could backstab you". yes, he could. and in the process give me proof he did.
mircea_popescu: very manageable risk.
asciilifeform: cryptocompromise as a 'manageable risk' under any scenario is imho lunacy.
asciilifeform: quite conceivably 'proof that he did' will be delivered to your smoking crater, and won't do much good.
trinque: ranks "I live in an arena where men stand on their names." as only dream
asciilifeform: e.g. admiral yamamoto.
mircea_popescu: rng is not === crypto
asciilifeform: for montecarlo then ?
mircea_popescu: maybe i wanna play some browswer game.
trinque: gotta then have the game, and have people cut down on reputation, and etc
asciilifeform: for game, most folx seem happy with porcelain, prng, rather than platinum, trng, toilet. but hey - who wants, can sell, buy.
asciilifeform: i buy barrels of water. can laugh at it just the same.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: "water -- literally falls from the sky, and he BUYS it." afghan would have a lulz.
asciilifeform: try an' drink what falls from sky here.
lobbes: (+mircea_popescu) mod6 i can't imagine lobbes 's have any issue lending the bot, once this is all in place. << yeah, no issue here. I'd be honored to have genuine entropy traded via bot
mircea_popescu: afghan dun know.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the overarching point is that risk per se is not the problem. unmanageable risk, of the sort that arises in poorly defined situations, is the problem. which is why open source is fundamentally useless, be it in the fdorm of ubuntu, or wikipedia. who do i negrate ?
mircea_popescu: "the whole thing, mp" "yeah well, that happened three seconds in."
mircea_popescu: old царь-государь press law was plain : author, responsible ; if can't be found, editor ; if can't be fouind , owenr ; if can't be found - typograpgher.
mircea_popescu: the principle is solid : the fact that someone from stanford published a shitty piece means THE WHOLE USG is now negrated, if there's not a lower node to negrate.
asciilifeform: there was this one time, however, when great persian царь-государь xerxes, negrated the sea...
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: like all other blades, this one worx best when sharp.
mircea_popescu: which is why "open source" is fundamentally useless. the poor idiots trying to hallucinate the poor idiot world where they can't be cut down for being poor idiots.
mod6: lobbes: cool :]
asciilifeform: in other quasi-noose, http://shop.voipdistri.com/Embedded-board-und-Mini-PC-System-bundle/Embedded-Boards-633/Deciso-Netboard-A10-Embedded-Motherboard---BIG-performer--low-power--AMD-next-generation-G-Serie-SOC-Chipset.html << possible 3rd board that worx with sage.
asciilifeform: if anyone gets hold of one & tries -- plz post.
asciilifeform: ^ with dram socket !!
asciilifeform: minus: intel nics.
asciilifeform: !!up NoMyName
deedbot: NoMyName voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: NoMyName: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
NoMyName: My daddy is dead, but he was a very fine doctor, and taught me the value of knowing things.
BingoBoingo: Ah, sad to hear.
NoMyName: I have seen your name everywhere in the blogs of record. Bingo! Boingo! Are you a person, or a bot?
BingoBoingo: I am a man! I am a newsman!
NoMyName: otay, that was not a bot answer...
jurov: https://www.sony.com/electronics/digital-paper-notepads/dpt-rp1 << iirc asciilifeform wanted e-ink device?
NoMyName: Ok, I know what a lemma is, I have had the occasional quandry, I don't know what the three premises are?
BingoBoingo: But yes, I am indeed not a bot.
asciilifeform: jurov: i have a large collection of various einktrons
asciilifeform: 1650 x 2200 is nothing to write home about, tho
NoMyName: $700 for a pad with one function?
asciilifeform: esp if it has the usual snail refresh
trinque: not a bad resolution for fonts.
trinque: only use I'd have for such a thing
asciilifeform: i already have lcd toys with that res tho
asciilifeform: that work in full colour and <10ms refresh.
trinque: hm, and e-ink?
asciilifeform: i also see 0 mention of os
asciilifeform: now if this were a comp, WITH A KEYBOARD, that ran for month+ on 1 battery charge -- then yes, it'd have a point
asciilifeform: (supposing the comp were gentooable, rather than 'chromebook' etc liquishit)
asciilifeform: 'Digital Paper Application is required for synchronization and document transfer between Digital Paper and PC. USB connection required to install the Digital Paper application on your PC.' << srsly?!
asciilifeform: jurov, why didja link this, it's a turd.
asciilifeform: even 'amazon' does not stoop this low.
jurov: i hoped you say it can be rooted or something
asciilifeform: in all fairness, sony is infamous for this, i had their original prs500
asciilifeform: after it was cracked properly
asciilifeform: jurov: if you get the thing rooted plz lemme know
asciilifeform: i know folx who might like it.
Framedragger: from initial glance looks like (unrooted version) works *just* with pdfs?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: didja read the quoted text ?
asciilifeform: $closedturdapplication is required to sync...
asciilifeform: != 'just works'
Framedragger: aha i guess that's the main uh political bottleneck
Framedragger: myeah.
asciilifeform: for starters.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/media-attacks-montana-candidate-for-defending-self-against-physical-assault-by-goon/ << Qntra - Media Attacks Montana Candidate For Defending Self Against Physical Assault By Goon
BingoBoingo: ^ 4 alf
asciilifeform: neato BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: In other news negrodamus finished sync experiment a few days ago for a roughly 6 month sync time in the wild with spinning rust. Is at present mostly keeping up (i.e. 3 blocks behind atm)
jurov: i had and experiment too, in 3 months went up to 420k blocks, but found out the cheapo ssd failed
jurov: total_lba_writen about 40T
asciilifeform: jurov: what make of ssd was it ?
jurov: patriot spark 256g
jurov: waiting in warranty claim atm
Framedragger: on facebook archiving: http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/3086
Framedragger: (jason scott)
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! http://nosuchlabs.com updated .
asciilifeform: this is not intended to rain on mod6 et al's parade, but rather in re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1662086 .
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 17:42 asciilifeform: while we're on subj, i'll say that there is probably a good reason why most commercial faux-rng makers don't offer a sample download.
asciilifeform: honest rng maker has 0 to be afraid of from posting arbitrarily large sample.
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/nosuchlabs_FG_1024MB_phreesample.txt , http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/nosuchlabs_FG_1024MB_phreesample.bin .
Framedragger: oooh nice. /me yet to generate 1gb+ of entropy, will post when that's done
trinque: imma just xor all your posts together for the rest of my life.
trinque: I like to live dangerously
Framedragger: "still better than urandom"
trinque: heh probably so.
jurov: idea: what about providing fuckgoat output in realtime, as tcp stream. maybe i'll do when i get some
asciilifeform: jurov: not a bad idea. and maybe you'll even discover some zeroblockpadding bug, a la the dd thing
jurov: um...signing that would be problematic, then
asciilifeform: in tcp
asciilifeform: you could buffer it and sign parcels prior to transmission
asciilifeform: ( or after, whichever. )
Framedragger: i guess no way to use luby code or equivalent on tcp huh
asciilifeform: what would that do, Framedragger ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ACHTUNG, panzers! http://nosuchlabs.com updated . << lol
Framedragger: asciilifeform: on second thought, i didn't have an idea in mind. i just thought "huh, how to have continuous/streaming verification of data, i.e. not have to send data in signed *chunks* (if want to have verified/signed data)"
Framedragger: (but that's not even luby codes, right)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i know of no such algo
asciilifeform: and suspect that it cannot exist.
Framedragger: right :(
Framedragger: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-24/ecb-warns-of-dangers-of-ripple-effect-from-house-price-boom 2008 called! "Exuberant house price developments in certain regions could, in principle, threaten the stability of financial institutions with mortgage exposures concentrated in those regions"
Framedragger: youdontsay!
mircea_popescu: whoa, some lightning strikes the likes of which...
mircea_popescu: i think they took a up down the street
mircea_popescu: took a tree*
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's just "in principle", aka "only happens to niggers, couldn't happen here, we're pravoslavniks!"
asciilifeform: jurov: the problem posed is quite reminiscent of ye olde 'provably fair casino' thread of '14
asciilifeform: jurov: afaik no solution is known , aside from the familiar 'prng and seed published at the end of the day/week/whichever'
asciilifeform: ( and then you're stuck with a prng, with the attendant consequences )
asciilifeform: the reproducible ~t~rng is a contradiction in terms.
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1661136 is probably as close as anybody could hope to get, to it )
a111: Logged on 2017-05-24 22:16 asciilifeform: previously i thought that you could not have an auditable single-crystal rng, but possibly this is not so : if you make it so that only co-incident (on 2 detectors) gamma is picked up, you can 'yoke'-audit 2 units by placing back to back around test source.
asciilifeform: 'Facebook is the third of what is probably a quartet (or quintet) of the destruction of the innocence of computing. First was viruses, second was malware, third is facebook. I suspect fourth will be related to control of networking itself, and fifth will be licensing of high level computer ability. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves.' << mega-lulzy, ty Framedragger
mircea_popescu: except that if is nonsense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand?
mircea_popescu: " only co-incident (on 2 detectors) gamma is picked up" requires i break fundamental qm.
asciilifeform: not necessarily
asciilifeform: gamma photon can set off 2 detectors, one after the other
mircea_popescu: really ?
asciilifeform: like nazi bullet
mircea_popescu: and how do you know if it did ?
asciilifeform: ( where famously tie-two-jews-together-to-use-1bullet )
mircea_popescu: if it interacts, it changes. after it set one, no longer same gamma photon.
asciilifeform: you know because they're X/c apart
mircea_popescu: lol.
asciilifeform: now i keep waiting for mircea_popescu to say 'you would use beta decay, fool'
mircea_popescu: this is almost better than the nuclear pykrete submersible aircraft.
asciilifeform: because you actually ~do~ get 2 geometrically opposite emissions
asciilifeform: and i actually had this device, and used every day, at one time
asciilifeform: commercial scintillation counter
mircea_popescu: you will... know because you measure the distance, and because no masking epiphenomena may exist ? really ? because your clocks work so well that they can be used against photons themselves, and calipers ditto ?
asciilifeform: with 2 opposite photomultiplier tubes
asciilifeform: fughet the gamma.
mircea_popescu: YOU SAID GAMMA.
asciilifeform: aite, if mircea_popescu insists, it can be made to work with gamma. and yes, clock is sufficiently repeatable. visit gun shop, get laser distance meter.
asciilifeform: works on this principle, does not need mega-clock.
asciilifeform: analogue.
mircea_popescu: shrugs. go right ahead.
asciilifeform: or visit spy shop and get the laser microfone, same idea.
asciilifeform: but yes, you would want to do it with beta decay.
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want to do it again. this is a cosmo kramer idea.
mircea_popescu: s/again/at all/.
asciilifeform: http://departments.agri.huji.ac.il/zabam/myimages/coincidence.jpg
asciilifeform: ^ commercial gadget, made for 40+ yrs
asciilifeform: http://departments.agri.huji.ac.il/zabam/myimages/Beta-Packard.jpg << the type i had
asciilifeform: 0 physical laws broken..
mircea_popescu: "here's something else than what i was talking about doing something else than what i was talking about, therefore."
asciilifeform: it won't work, mircea_popescu , the squid ink
asciilifeform: http://departments.agri.huji.ac.il/zabam/beta.html << likbez for n00bz.
mircea_popescu: mkay, i'm guessing that's enough for a day.
asciilifeform: aite.
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2477.26, vol: 32244.22691818 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2390.45, vol: 25617.11116 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2466.0, vol: 49595.5512034 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2651.086256, vol: 32000.83330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2494.596, vol: 13771.1618584 | Volume-weighted last average: 2496.96290776
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, in ben_vulpesistan, it neversleeps!, https://archive.is/DYc5c >> 'The owner of a burrito food cart in Portland has been driven out of business by social justice warriors who accused the two white women who run the business of "cultural appropriation."'
ben_vulpes: "burritogate!"
mircea_popescu: is it still crashing ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: didja see the list of hated business i posted a few days ago?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha, but had nfi re context
ben_vulpes: the church is maintaining its own hit list now
asciilifeform: which church
ben_vulpes: the church of woke
asciilifeform: lol
ben_vulpes: it's progress you see, they weren't going far enough before
ben_vulpes: you know, the church of progress where you pray, self-flagellate, to eudaly and hardesty et al for wisdom and guidance
ben_vulpes: because you have no god, you athiest, and cannot think for yourself, you american
mircea_popescu: not just the facts anymore ?
ben_vulpes: what facts, we have lived experience
mircea_popescu: ah right, i forgot about that.
ben_vulpes: "can't argue with lived experience!"
ben_vulpes: you were born poor and life sucked for you, quelle surprise
mircea_popescu: right right, because it's irreproducible AND THEREFORTE VALUABLE.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck their thinkers work i have no idea, but probably something with symmetrical scintillations.
ben_vulpes: see also "i don't check my privilege, i /leverage/ it."
ben_vulpes: "how do you leverage privilege?"
mircea_popescu: synnergy something ?
ben_vulpes: "ah see you'd have to be a cis het shitlord for it to make sense."
ben_vulpes: sin-ergy
ben_vulpes: my dark powers come from a lifetime of sin
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, in the dinner date conversation ideas, "who'd win a fight between the greatest douchecanoe and the worst shitlord ???"
mircea_popescu: or did "douchecanoe" fail coinage ? i recall all sorta sheilas pushing it pretty hard a few years back.
asciilifeform: the elephant, naturally
shinohai: !#vulpes
a111: and i didn't even need to bring any tools!
ben_vulpes: only tool i need in this life i keep between my legs
asciilifeform: !#vulpes
a111: to fix the UNENDING STREAM of precious bull run
asciilifeform: phf that thing was a work of genius
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: btw gabriel_laddel_p dontcha have a key ?
asciilifeform: why not use.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: yes, but I'm neg-rated by MP so cannot up myself
asciilifeform: !!gettrust gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: -2 by 2 connections.
gabriel_laddel_p: also hard drive died last night, so have to auth via a systemrescuecd + usb which sorta sucks
gabriel_laddel_p: mod6: the payment is to drive up the value of your shares
asciilifeform: anyway gabriel_laddel_p go to nosuchlabs.com , you will find rng bitz
gabriel_laddel_p: and also to demonstrate that "oh no, FG can't be sold" is in the same bucket as http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381606
a111: Logged on 2016-01-22 21:56 gabriel_laddel: I found 20 XC6216-2HQ240Cs
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661862 < incidentally ascii, your skill set could make you a lot of money if you
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 15:19 mircea_popescu: it may not be the end all be all, but if you fail to impress me with your idea, you don't have an idea. absolute minimum bar, the master's eye which fattens the cows.
asciilifeform: if wat
gabriel_laddel_p: would just move to tijuana Mexico and go to some parties, tell people you're a technician / chemist
asciilifeform: lol
gabriel_laddel_p: let em know you can do crypto
asciilifeform: aha lol, they get all the crypto they want from old man julius cesar
gabriel_laddel_p: if the cartel's knew even simple things like "most of our product is chiral" they could sell a lot more
asciilifeform: per http://trilema.com/2014/more-about-caesar-cyphers .
gabriel_laddel_p: d-amphetamine is WAYYY better & an easy sell, but not available on the market
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: they don't want to end up in jail any more than you do
asciilifeform: aaaactually they like jail fine
asciilifeform: see pretty much all of the mircea_popescu jail threads
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: stands in direct contradiction to my own experience, but w/e
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p has experience in mexican mafia?!
asciilifeform: whyd'dya quit. i wouldn't quit.
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: if I had experience with the cartel's I'd be making money in the way described above.
asciilifeform: and srsly, they have nfi that chiral column exists, i am supposed to believe.
asciilifeform: because wat, they don't watch american detective tv ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: go buy some cocaine sometime. or amphetamine of any description
gabriel_laddel_p: you CANNOT buy d-amphetamine, or any of the enantiomers / diastereomers of meth / cocaine.
gabriel_laddel_p: in spite of having radically different effects.
asciilifeform: if you must, separate it yerself ferfuxxsake
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: most of the people buying have no idea, they just know "white powder makes me feel good"
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: do you realize that you are becoming somewhat hard to distinguish from the late thestringpuller
gabriel_laddel_p: so you search around the chemical space to find the most potent white powder == sell more
asciilifeform: i'ma leave the white powders to the specialists.
asciilifeform: https://www.sott.net/image/s17/345005/full/powell_un_anthrax.jpg << oblig!
gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, I'd like to apologize for the spelling errors above. on an apple computer & it spell corrects me / removes text / sends messages I didn't intend to send. Eg, "incidentally ascii" was supposed to be prefaced with "Amen. "
gabriel_laddel_p: Anyways, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661854 < Amen.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 15:14 mircea_popescu: and the most bitter fruit of this entire tree of idiocy being that in six months to a year, we'll be right back to "oh, orlol boat and lizzards are keeping the hydrogen engine under wraps".
asciilifeform: has at this point lost count of the 'fine folx' who offered him 'sure profitz' involving white powders/militias/deathrays across-the-border/across-the-ocean/in-shangri-la/in-shiticonvalley etc etc
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1506792 . )
a111: Logged on 2016-07-20 01:18 asciilifeform: it was a very strange experience, like having a contract killer sent for you who worked his whole life in a slaughterhouse and literally expects you to behave EXACTLY like cow, to simply walk up to where he has the ~stationary~ stun hammer
ben_vulpes: eh, cartels just kidnap and enslave technicians. what employ.
asciilifeform: chechens did.
asciilifeform: pirates also (ship doctor, let go when new one found)
asciilifeform: i could easily think of worse job to be enslaved for.
shinohai: YArgh
asciilifeform: still finds it interesting that g_l did not ask re the rng sample .
asciilifeform: possibly at this point there's 7 d00dz using 'his' nick.
asciilifeform: 5 of whom travel in 'white powders' etc.
mod6: why buy the cow if you get the milk for free?
asciilifeform: possibly because the milk is powdered
asciilifeform: and typhoidal
asciilifeform: and at any rate not particularly fresh.
asciilifeform: also iirc cocaine only comes in L isomer in nature.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo Saifedean Ammous (The guy ripped apart by diana_coman one Sunday in logs ) is upset that my latest Qntra did not attribute his quote. Please advise how to proceed.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: !!seen saifedean
deedbot: 2017/04/02 08:26:34 <saifedean> in any case, these only inform the last couple of chapters of the book. the rest is mostly economic history and austrian economics on sound money and its perks & fiat money and its disasters
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1662426 < is it not free sample.bin from nosuchlabs.com?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-25 22:47 asciilifeform still finds it interesting that g_l did not ask re the rng sample .
shinohai: !!key saifedean
deedbot: Not registered.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: What quote?
shinohai: "A conference sponsored by the Ethereum,1 Dash,2 and Ripple3 scams produces an agreement on how to scale Bitcoin". <<< twas him from twitter
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: in any case, happy to make a PGPGRAM at whatever point verifying that indeed, it is me using this nick.
trinque: y'know we already have a process for doing just that.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: y'know, I'm neg-rated so cannot up myself
gabriel_laddel_p: how it is not 100% obvious I read everything by now...
gabriel_laddel_p: god you people are thick sometimes
mircea_popescu: shinohai why didn't it attribute ?
shinohai: I think I forgot to add the archive.is to his tweet, article underwent revision before published.
mircea_popescu: ah. so put it in, big deal.
shinohai: http://qntra.net/2017/05/still-no-consensus-supporting-bitcoin-hardfork-barry-silbert-pretends-otherwise-to-his-peril/#comment-99155
shinohai: thinks that fixes it, and is sufficient snub to audacity of individual not in wot
phf: asciilifeform: hey you ever worked with https://dmitripavlov.org/tex/ ?
asciilifeform: phf: nope
shinohai: http://archive.is/woZGL <<< oops
phf: it's the simplest solution i found to typeset cyrillic with plain tex, but i can't get font mapping to work..
phf: tex is like a handful of carefully crafted tools with gb's of liquishit™ on top. "we have this elegant vpatch of a carefully crafted solution" "can i use it?" "lol nobody uses it, we have a modern option with unicode! and lua! and packages! comes as a GIT REPO!111"
asciilifeform: hey, old man knuth is old
asciilifeform: and certainly uses no heathen cyrillic..
asciilifeform: and betcha he ain't touched a stinkin' comp since '92
phf: that i can see
phf: but he does use cyrillic! when he needs to obsessively write correct name for a mathematician in his AoCP references
asciilifeform: phf: i dunno which edition you have, but in mine they are in latinate
asciilifeform: at least vol2, which is what i have in my bed right now and can't be arsed to get up and see 1 and 3
asciilifeform: but betcha they - also
phf: all three of mine are in book boxes (i just moved) but they definitely have cyrillic (as well as all the other friends of the people, e.g. al khwarizmi spelled in arabic, japanese etc.)
phf: i wonder if that's a later update. i have a fairly recent print from early 2000s
asciilifeform: '90s here
phf: oh you know what it is, it's not inline, check the Index and Glossary
phf: for example, Euler, Leonhard should have cyrillic equivalent
asciilifeform: btw phf i also own a ru knuth, somebody at umd threw it out once ( or perhaps died ... )
asciilifeform: pretty good transl i daresay
phf: possibly needed space for "artificial intelligence programming with google apis"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/68334C972306604A21A42616FD69FAFAD3F677941098143D6168F83C2D12C6EF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1531...3557 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.252.252.164 (ssh-rsa key from 87.252.252.164 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-87-252-252-164.telecom.by. BY HM)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/68334C972306604A21A42616FD69FAFAD3F677941098143D6168F83C2D12C6EF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1384...1929 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.252.252.164 (ssh-rsa key from 87.252.252.164 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-87-252-252-164.telecom.by. BY HM)
asciilifeform: in other unshielded rng, https://www.araneus.fi/products/alea2/en/
asciilifeform: they even offer a faux phuctor! https://www.araneus.fi/kno/
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F38A3E121539020A6FB8639DF9A5F361CA631D5089C433A35A7CF88C1242BE3D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1695...0203 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.169.16.233 (ssh-rsa key from 41.169.16.233 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F38A3E121539020A6FB8639DF9A5F361CA631D5089C433A35A7CF88C1242BE3D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...6719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.169.16.233 (ssh-rsa key from 41.169.16.233 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39E71543A1D609A02E29A3CFBFBF41A3F6BCF165017728BD82191D148BCE7999 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...6719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.132.137.40 (ssh-rsa key from 78.132.137.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-137-40.pppoe.tmb.ru. RU TAM)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/39E71543A1D609A02E29A3CFBFBF41A3F6BCF165017728BD82191D148BCE7999 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1703...0239 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.132.137.40 (ssh-rsa key from 78.132.137.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (static-137-40.pppoe.tmb.ru. RU TAM)
asciilifeform: 'One application of the KNO is for testing of random number generators (RNGs). The idea is that it is extremely unlikely that a properly working RNG will generate the same random 128-bit number twice...'
asciilifeform: sounds oddly familiar.
shinohai: The faux phuctor of fi ! >.>
asciilifeform: i admit that i dun quite grasp the logic : what, if usg makes 9,001 of these, the actual phuctor will disappear..?
asciilifeform: the keyz -- unbreak ?
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A59CB9E134497F26F2EDF3DFEA56640434761F790AF68FAC889D82C8C40F9801 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1714...0583 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.6.237.191 (ssh-rsa key from 103.6.237.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MY)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A59CB9E134497F26F2EDF3DFEA56640434761F790AF68FAC889D82C8C40F9801 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1643...1253 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '103.6.237.191 (ssh-rsa key from 103.6.237.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MY)
phf: it's all about controlling the narrative
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: and in other "confusingly weird footage of nevertheless accurate romanian wood civilisation life, tools and etc", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbRVPP7hoVg
mircea_popescu: (don't pluck live ducks -- you're supposed to wring neck first, steep in boiling water 2nd, then pluck ; don't chase pig around with meat cleaver, you need dagger to cut its jugular first.)
hanbot: i'm pretty sure you're supposed to put things in water *before* you wring them, .ro clearly backwards
mircea_popescu: lol
shinohai: hue
asciilifeform: !!up IamAGirlsoInever
deedbot: IamAGirlsoInever voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: IamAGirlsoInever: can't resist : ...never what ??
IamAGirlsoInever: Do spam posts get defenstrated or will they appear in the logs?
asciilifeform: everything appears in the logz.
asciilifeform: king and slave and inbetween
asciilifeform: ant and lion.
IamAGirlsoInever: Weird, it killed the nick end apparently, was f*a*r*t of course.
IamAGirlsoInever: ant appears regularly even when they mine a block with one tranny.
IamAGirlsoInever: ok, spam then, don't know what will happen though, prolly get ignored as it should.
IamAGirlsoInever: https://blockchain.info/payment_request?address=16au4MEVdqVzXtkpK96YTavkfSuT7iAruS&amount=25&message=So%20I%20can%20has%20some%20bitcoins
asciilifeform: IamAGirlsoInever: satisfy my curiosity : why should anybody send you coin ?
asciilifeform: give even 1 reason
IamAGirlsoInever: they should not. I'm not offering anything in return.
asciilifeform: at least honest.
asciilifeform: what would you do with coin if you came across some, IamAGirlsoInever ?
IamAGirlsoInever: I am always honestly dishonest. I really can't tell a lie very well, so I just tell the truth and use that to lie.
asciilifeform: so let's hear...
asciilifeform: why would you even want any
IamAGirlsoInever: If I had some coins I would probably use them to attempt to find either cracks or other bugs in reference implementations. I could always just use the testnet, or setup my own.
asciilifeform: y'know you don't need coin for that
IamAGirlsoInever: I'm testing various implementations and social networks as well. Trilema is definetly interesting.
asciilifeform: demonstrate an output of these tests ?
shinohai: pops popcorn ....
asciilifeform: word 'test' implies a result..
IamAGirlsoInever: Output? GIGO good stuff in, good stuff out.
asciilifeform: link to example of 'good stuff' ?
IamAGirlsoInever: test like science, double blind, use a premise, try to prove a point?
asciilifeform: post. example. of something you tested. and the test result.
IamAGirlsoInever: Link? thebitcoin.foundation vs bitcoin.foundation?
asciilifeform: what trb item have you tested, IamAGirlsoInever ?
IamAGirlsoInever: Oh, a test from way back when, I implemented an XML reader and negelected to cap off recursion, so I tried a file full of <_> commands, just open a short tag.
asciilifeform: what's that got to do with thebitcoin.foundation ?
IamAGirlsoInever: it of course blew my system away, but when I tested against everybody elses readers, their were bad too.
phf: and that's how i became a hacker!
asciilifeform: IamAGirlsoInever: it seems that you have mistook the address. the kindergarten door is three doors down.
asciilifeform: !!down IamAGirlsoInever
phf: asciilifeform: it's all about community building
asciilifeform: i'ma consider that somebody was testing a perlbot.
asciilifeform: ( at this point you could quite easily write a IamAGiraffeAndILikeTesting bot..)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in dreamerland, "Join us on "Style Code Live" daily to connect, shop and chat live with fashion designers, beauty experts and celebrities! Discover today's best beauty hacks and the top style secrets!"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-26#1662482 << mikrotik, longtime-no-see
a111: Logged on 2017-05-26 01:49 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F38A3E121539020A6FB8639DF9A5F361CA631D5089C433A35A7CF88C1242BE3D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...6719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.169.16.233 (ssh-rsa key from 41.169.16.233 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZA)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-26#1662477 << ahahahahaha https://inventory.by.undp.org >> 'UNITED NATIONS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME'
a111: Logged on 2017-05-26 01:31 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/68334C972306604A21A42616FD69FAFAD3F677941098143D6168F83C2D12C6EF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1531...3557 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.252.252.164 (ssh-rsa key from 87.252.252.164 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (leased-line-87-252-252-164.telecom.by. BY HM)
asciilifeform: didjaknow
asciilifeform: 'We can save lives in Somalia Our job today is not to just avert the imminent famine, but to keep hope alive.' lol
asciilifeform: dafuq is it doing on belarus isp ?
asciilifeform: and of what, gotta wonder, is the 'inventory'.
asciilifeform: of 'grad' rockets for 'moderate rebels', betcha.
BingoBoingo: You mean "weather rockets" for moderate rebel "meteorology experiments"
asciilifeform: anal rockets, for moderate proctology experiments, who knows
asciilifeform: the login form has the appearance of handwritten html, with no obvious crapolade, which is somewhat unusual.
asciilifeform: ( no js etc )
asciilifeform: a kB or so.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/TN8Cx/?raw=true for posterity
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9YaUs/?raw=true << css
BingoBoingo: In other surprises, while digging to create point for anchoring tin shed in situ a wild concrete pad was found under shed. For ~15 years of ownership, twas ASSumed that metal shed was simply plopped down onto the dirt.
asciilifeform: 'Common Name (CN) intranet.undp.by
asciilifeform: Organization (O) UNDP Belarus
asciilifeform: Issued On Friday, February 2, 2007 at 6:50:10 AM
asciilifeform: Expires On Saturday, February 2, 2008 at 6:50:10 AM'
asciilifeform: lul.
asciilifeform: cheapskates.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: walking on new street not long ago i saw an old tin shed that looked as if it had ~imploded~
asciilifeform: still can't picture what might cause this.
BingoBoingo: Frost heaving is what would case that
BingoBoingo: *cause
asciilifeform: looked exactly like the tin can children put on steam kettle and then into ice water, to watch implode
asciilifeform: perhaps d00d kept a veeery large thermos in there, and broke..
BingoBoingo: What happens is they anchor it to the ground without any consideration for the local frost depth or drainage, and then seasons change
asciilifeform: or a fat pile of CRTs
asciilifeform: nono BingoBoingo , ground-touching part was fine
asciilifeform: roof -- imploded
BingoBoingo: ah, Hit by tree limb? Hamplanet?
asciilifeform: i naively imagine that if tree, it'd have flattened more of it, and would have been thrown out
asciilifeform: but whoknows.
BingoBoingo: Idiot shelving suppoted in middle by hanging from roof?
asciilifeform: could be
asciilifeform: nfi.
BingoBoingo: In other research, OMG A TWO WHEELED TRACTOR!!! https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/yamaha/2016-2017-yamaha-tw200-ar171244.html
BingoBoingo: “Neat little bike, and more fun than a barrel of monkeys to ride, evidenced by the grown men squealing like ten-year-old girls when they grab a fistful of throttle and try to twist it off. That’s something I do not recommend trying right away until you get a feel for it, ’cause the front end needs very little encouragement to come off the ground." << This thing is screaming for a sleeve hitch and moldboard plough
ben_vulpes: https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/25/15690040/imzy-social-network-nicer-reddit-shutdown << die everyone and everything die
ben_vulpes: "free-for-all and sometimes toxic social sites like Reddit"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why not plough by taking off one wheel
asciilifeform: possibly no other mods needed..
asciilifeform: press it down with yer own weight, by... riding
BingoBoingo: Nah, power comes from rear wheel, would have to completely reverse the drivetrain and make front wheel drive
asciilifeform: so remove front wheel
ben_vulpes: oblig: http://rynomotors.com/
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Then not a plough, but a trencher
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'Volume consumer sales are targeted for late 2015.' lel
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: That thing is too glossy, has to be vaporware
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: see asciilifeform's comment
ben_vulpes: when i could muster the shits to get down to "ev summit" or whateverthefuck they called it someone was noodling around on one
ben_vulpes: high grade wankatronium
asciilifeform: what exactly is the point of a vehicle that maxes out at 'speed of runner' ?
asciilifeform: and range of runner, also..
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if the original golden toilet of this genre, 'segway', had not bombed
asciilifeform: why folx so eager to make new, and new
asciilifeform: ( the apotheosis moment of segway was when the chump who bought the co from the original sc4mz0r, finally drove his personal unit off a tall cliff ! )
ben_vulpes: all downhill from there

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