Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-03-03 | 2017-03-05 →
mircea_popescu: phf unsurprising ; indian industrialization happened mostly under the soviet... "influence".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here, have some lulz:
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are 1955176872 lines of debug.log between block 419220 and 419221
asciilifeform: ~that~ was where the thing sat stalled, for eons
mircea_popescu: and yet.
asciilifeform: but interestingly, quite recently was able to reconnect to the 'first connected to' node, the idiocy i described yesterday, and sync just a bit.
mircea_popescu: so the working theory being, that a) node spent ~weeks trying to digest block 419221 and failing ; b) eventually managed but by then not able to obtain the next one because of reasons discussed except ; c) recently it managed to briefly connect to the magic node it would talk to and get another 100 or so blocks ?
asciilifeform: ^ for convenient reading
asciilifeform: 'recently' is a poor choice of word, i cannot say exactly when.
asciilifeform: can only estimate, like archaeologist using carbon14 decay..
asciilifeform: and if you grep this for 00000000000000000136 , guess what
mircea_popescu: it's about my own conclusion. i'd say it belies the need for some fixing.
asciilifeform: you see exactly what i described -- your node asks, and asks, and asks peers for it
asciilifeform: never gets.
asciilifeform: because - i dare say - they ain't nodes
mircea_popescu: very miserable design for a "peer to peer" network.
asciilifeform: they're pseudos
asciilifeform: who don't ~have~ it.
mircea_popescu: this is entirely possible.
asciilifeform: hence 'wires' etc.
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu your node spent ages trying to ~get hold of~ 419221. not to digest it.
asciilifeform: digested, as per the log, more or less immediately
asciilifeform: meanwhile, völkischer beobachter entertains, << 'President Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a “Nixon/Watergate” plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election .. no evidence ...'
asciilifeform: (i don't recall seeing a 'ru mega-hack accusation ... no evidence' in the beobachter.
asciilifeform: evidence, evidently, is something to demand of mr.t only )
asciilifeform: !!up mrottenkolber
deedbot: mrottenkolber voiced for 30 minutes.
mrottenkolber: wait trilema is a person
mrottenkolber: this feels awkwardly like a person cult now
mrottenkolber: so I'm curious, where do you guys stand politically?
mrottenkolber: Like, self perception
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: could try reading the logs
mrottenkolber: right, I'm a dick
asciilifeform: in pygmystan, they have not invented writing yet, gotta retell same yarn again and again and... again. we -- have writing.
mrottenkolber: I know, I know, people are not REPLs
PeterL: << I am not sure this would happen, you would still have to verify the blocks - unless you have absolutely no connection to anybody else, in which case you would be equally stuck under current conditions
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 01:53 asciilifeform: (if you ~only~ requested by height, anyone could put you on 1way voyage to pluto and you'll stay there.)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...2833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...9937 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( DE)
ben_vulpes: hey hey! i've got a node wired up to dulap.
ben_vulpes: neat street, stan my man
asciilifeform: congrats to ben_vulpes , the first d00d to request , and be issued, a wire to dulap.
asciilifeform: ( ideally this won't end up a star topology around this 1 poor box !! )
ben_vulpes: i don't have a master in place yet, but i am also willing to extend wire peerings to my l1
ben_vulpes: it is what, ten minutes of work to set the master up
asciilifeform: imho the Right Thing is, each node is wired to a handful of serious people.
asciilifeform: and if you have a trb built with wires, it is 10min work (on client end), 10 seconds on the master.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: congrats to you, you did all the hard work. tank brigade goes nowhere without the engineers laying down bridgework
asciilifeform: now it is also important to understand the limitations of the current wires patch. there is ~no~ prioritization .
asciilifeform: the one thing you are guaranteed is that your node won't perma-drop the wire.
asciilifeform: in fact if the peer on the other end of the wire goes down, you will get multi-MB whine in your log.
asciilifeform: (i was unable to think of any reasonable way around this. if you silence the whine, you will never know that your wire peers dropped.)
asciilifeform: there is no prioritization because of trb's fundamentally idiotic uniprocess socket handling. ( if there is no preemption - there can be no meaningful prioritization ! )
ben_vulpes: off the cuff, would an exponential whine backoff suck?
asciilifeform: yes, because you go on a month's voyage and come back to 0 clue.
asciilifeform: what the thing really needs is 'indicator lamp', i.e. a field in getstatus that shows last event that happened on each wire.
asciilifeform: but i will leave this to other folx for nao
ben_vulpes: well come now, "it didn't connect at minute 1, 2, 4..."
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as is screamingly obvious from the earlier thread with mircea_popescu -- the debug log is terrifyingly inadequate for ~any serious work
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: not only timestamp is missing, also
asciilifeform: and not only truncated (why?!) txid
asciilifeform: but also, we never learn what came in , and from where
ben_vulpes: hash and height for that matter
asciilifeform: or what was sent, and to whom
asciilifeform: and in response to what.
asciilifeform: can ~infer~ , ~sometimes~, yes.
asciilifeform: but this is a laugh.
ben_vulpes: aight, aight, i forget that i'm the only person using svlogd
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's that do
ben_vulpes: this is a desirable situation? that trb logging include timestamps and shit into log that which came from whom?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: rotation and timestamping.
asciilifeform: these are the smallest, by far, problems
asciilifeform: and yes, if you want to debug, you gotta log. don't think the enemy doesn't log your plaintext.
asciilifeform: (and with , i picture, much better detail than stock trb's log )
asciilifeform: also imho mempool events oughta reside in separate log.
asciilifeform: incidentally, ben_vulpes , if mircea_popescu had ANY kind of reasonable log rotation in his node -- i would have had nothing to work with !
asciilifeform: this is why i don't think much of auto-rotation
mircea_popescu: you are not alone.
asciilifeform: rotate -- manually. when you're satisfied that there is no further use for the multi-GB log
ben_vulpes: aye aye
asciilifeform: whereas if your node is launched to pluto, and you know that you will never read the log -- turn it off !
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, recall our ancient discussion re "buried nodes" and my reluctance ? dja understand HOW MANY OF THESE THERE ARE, silent unknown failure modes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i have nfi how many
asciilifeform: incidentally there is ye olde disk-is-full. and in future trbi with fixedwidth tx and block, node knows ~exactly when disk will fill, years in advance.
asciilifeform: you bolt in a disk, and know 'this many TB -- this many year'
asciilifeform: in classical trb, you have the 1MB/10min worstcase. but tightbounds are better.
ben_vulpes: subject of trbi, did i miss a way for a parent to cancel a cask ask shy of fibbing?
asciilifeform: (in trb, you also, recall, have the tx index db, and literally nobody knows what the dynamics are there)
ben_vulpes: roll i mean, not ask
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you didn't miss, there is no such thing
asciilifeform: a promise that can be 'takebacked' any time, is no promise at all
asciilifeform: it is either kept -- or not kept !
asciilifeform: once made.
ben_vulpes: yes, you walked the promises side of the problem exhaustively.
asciilifeform: when you roll a cask, you are saying, ultimately -- to a tx maker -- 'there is a place in a block reserved for your tx, fire away'
ben_vulpes: and there's no way to get transactions into blocks absent casks, right?
asciilifeform: not for anyone other than the miner
asciilifeform: (miner can, if he likes, connect mouth hose directly to own arse, for so long as his blocks validate, he will simply forgo the fees then )
asciilifeform: note that the miner is theoretically free to distribute some, or all of, the space in his block in any other way -- e.g. via dartboard, or sheep entrails, etc
asciilifeform: the cask scheme is simply a way to impedance-match a high tx pressure to finite space in blocks, with maximally (afaik) frictionless market.
asciilifeform: where you avoid the situation from mircea_popescu's old essay where 'in broken market, you give a bag of maybe-money in return for a bag of perhaps-potatoes' and everybody goes home to learn how cheated he was
asciilifeform: key is to abolish the maybe-money in favour of money, and throw out the perhaps-potatoes in favour of definitively and immediately palpable potatoes.
asciilifeform: and yes, this only works with nodes that have cryptographically hard identity. and not with the syphilitic orgy familiar to classical trb users.
ben_vulpes: is the cask system design necessarily exclusive of a mempool design?
asciilifeform: it is specifically a replacement for mempool
asciilifeform: which is a dumbfoundingly idiotic concept: it is promisetronic IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
asciilifeform: in the direction of tx-author -> mempool : 'here, i'ma take a dump, and YOU verify and store it'
asciilifeform: from mempool operator to tx author -> 'oh here, take your dump, i PROMISE!111 i won't just throw it into the toilet'
asciilifeform: and in no case does it offer a means of marketing one's path-to-miner
asciilifeform: aside from ad-hoc wires-for-pay and other orc duct tape
asciilifeform: (the logical end of ~that~, is visa and swift.)
ben_vulpes: well there is the protocolitic commitment that if the transaction is included, the miner will receive a fee, but that's it.
asciilifeform: none of the ~other~ people who made the show happen, get anything at all.
asciilifeform: in the classical system.
asciilifeform: all they get is the bill, for geometrically-expanding disk footprint and cpu burn.
ben_vulpes: yes, if you want to drive, must have a car.
asciilifeform: eventually this turns into 'if you want to fly, must have a plane'
asciilifeform: or, worse, 'if you want to drive, must lay own asphalt'
ben_vulpes: one of the things i took away from the past week of mega logs is that blockchains may have finite lifespans
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: absolutely ~everything~ has finite lifespan.
ben_vulpes: myup.
ben_vulpes: hey at least we get an interesting pricing exercise out of it!
asciilifeform: incidentally the nonsense where 'hey, node operators get paid in Being Able To Use Bitcoin' needs to be put to rest properly
asciilifeform: because Being Able To Use Bitcoin might pay the bills, for node operator today (or may not, some folx are stuck operating a node for other reasons, say, trb dev work) but enemy can drive up the cost substantially , with no guarantee of an increase on the other side of the balance to match it
asciilifeform: and in fact the idiot variable-length tx scheme, with the attendant db, guarantees geometric growth in the cost
mircea_popescu: << just one more of the libertard words. "evidence", "science" "consensus" "Rape" etcetera.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 16:13 asciilifeform: evidence, evidently, is something to demand of mr.t only )
asciilifeform: ( note that nobody guarantees you, node keeper, any kind of geometric growth in your income from Being Able To Use Bitcoin, even in happy dreams when you sleep )
asciilifeform: result is a convergence to visa.
mircea_popescu: << yes but this is also the major drag on wires adoption. they buy, little.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 17:53 asciilifeform: there is no prioritization because of trb's fundamentally idiotic uniprocess socket handling. ( if there is no preemption - there can be no meaningful prioritization ! )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they buy 1 thing -- a guaranteed avoidance of the situation of mircea_popescu's node
mircea_popescu: it's not clear the node'd have asked the wire.
asciilifeform: where 'prb, prb everywhere, and not a drop to drink'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it asked, and asked, and asked, as far as i can tell, a great many peers
asciilifeform: this, from the posted log.
asciilifeform: nobody gave a useful answer.
asciilifeform: nobody.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mircea_popescu: should have permabanned them, is my current thinking.
mircea_popescu: it seems to me, that if i make a request of anyone and anything - a woman, a shopkeeper, a dog, a bee, and that request is not satisfied,
mircea_popescu: i crush the bee, shopkeeper, woman, etcetera.
asciilifeform: i tried permabanning everybody-symptomatic-of-prbism
mircea_popescu: what's so special about bitcoin nodes ?
asciilifeform: didn't end well
mircea_popescu: you fail to answer, you get bombed. hurray.
asciilifeform: vermin-zapping worx best as part of a balanced died, of making friends with non-vermin.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
mircea_popescu: << the discussion of separating logs happened when we last talked of logs and how to improve them, cca 2015ish.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 18:02 asciilifeform: also imho mempool events oughta reside in separate log.
asciilifeform: aha! i tried to dig up the thread, so far failed
asciilifeform: but iirc there was indeed a thread, where mircea_popescu suggested multiple log streams, that can be separated or combined as necessary
mircea_popescu: like you know, among sane people.
asciilifeform: no one will ever confuse anything we might recognize as trb for any artifact from the distant Planet of Sane People.
asciilifeform: ( though i have never, myself, been to this paradise, and the only artifact i know of from it is via pure rumour, the marvelous orichalcum-powered golden dildoes )
mircea_popescu: gold makes a terrible dildo, incidentally. silver's better, somewhat.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1257.17, vol: 5085.29209634 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1253.0, vol: 4215.02807 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1265.3, vol: 16820.37490705 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1193.35145, vol: 7106.06290000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1260.001, vol: 1520.70750942 | Volume-weighted last average: 1247.67231371
deedbot: << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Mining Difficulty Up Yet Again To 460769358090.71423340 For New All Time High
ben_vulpes: in other rallies and gendered binary:
deedbot: << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The “diversification” scam is spreading you thin and stealing your money. So knock it off already.
ben_vulpes: > find two or three prospective all stars
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski missed vanguard takeover of the world? ria's successfully still hawk high load funds in the northeast?
pete_dushenski: two or three is better than 20 or 30 for fee management
pete_dushenski: and vanguard is mentioned. nfi what ria is
pete_dushenski: registered investment advisor mabbe ?
ben_vulpes: mhm, part of the sro song and dance they do down here
pete_dushenski: also north of montana isn't really northeast yknow
ben_vulpes: ah right
pete_dushenski: anyways, i have no love lost for etfs even if their fees are lower than mutual funds of yesteryear. they're still a hodgepodge of thinly distributed garbage. i don't know anyone who seriously reaps a return from them.
pete_dushenski: i like to remind anyone tempted to buy etfs "for safety" that cash outperformed every vanguard offering in 2007. lest we forget that ~half~ of the returns of us stocks during the last fifty years were dictated by only ten days.
ben_vulpes: didn't cash outperform everything in 2007?
pete_dushenski: you could probably find a few exceptions other than cash but not many
ben_vulpes: i have no idea what you're getting at by pointing out that cash outperformed everything (incl. vg index funds, duh?) plus that index gains occur on a limited number of days
ben_vulpes: gains in any asset.
asciilifeform: lol fiatola 'savings'
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: simply the (perhaps obvious to log readers) point that diversification isn't a panacea particularly in the manner used by 'advisors', which is to say, within sectors and within asset classes rather than between them
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: your airquotes just burst a million middle class bubbles
ben_vulpes: hey, do sector rotation next!
pete_dushenski: i thought you had the rotation covered ?
pete_dushenski: and timestamping!
ben_vulpes: eh, won't be at this place long enough to make proper rotation worthwhile
pete_dushenski: !~google gilts
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: Gilts Definition | Investopedia: <>; About Gilts - UK Debt Management Office: <>; Gilt -edged securities - Wikipedia: <>
pete_dushenski: uk bonds eh
ben_vulpes: lol, n. am equities did so badly they didn't even make the screenshot?
ben_vulpes: and where's cash in the 2007 col
ben_vulpes: poor cash
ben_vulpes: rip cash
pete_dushenski: you'd be better off investing in old timepieces with overkilled documentation
ben_vulpes: eh i'd rather invest in dirt
pete_dushenski: not quite as portable. jew's gotta stay on his toes imo.
ben_vulpes: if invest time as well, returns are denominate in knowledge.
ben_vulpes: denominated*
pete_dushenski: always a +ev strategy that.
pete_dushenski: bbl. someone's nap ended too soon
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: siempre
trinque: hm, deedbot still trapped on a netsplit eh?
mircea_popescu: seems so.
asciilifeform: 'A spokesman for Barack Obama on Saturday rejected claims by U.S. President Donald Trump that the then-president had wiretapped Trump in October during the late stages of the presidential election campaign, saying it was "simply false."'
asciilifeform: lel, 'i am not a crook!1111' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: did he offer proof ?
asciilifeform: '"Neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false," Obama spokesman Kevin Lewis said in a statement.' << 'proof'
mircea_popescu: ahahaha WHAT
mircea_popescu: they assassinated us citizens. wtf, what planet is this ?
asciilifeform: jesuitistically, it's tru! obummer does not order surveillance, pocket judge orders.
asciilifeform: formally.
mircea_popescu: "Now, both The New York Times and The Washington Post confirm that the Obama White House has now expressly authorized the CIA to kill al-Alwaki no matter where he is found, no matter his distance from a battlefield."
mircea_popescu: today in things that never happened.
mircea_popescu: where is my fucking razor for the internet ?
mircea_popescu: "2010 too far away for ameritards hurr"
asciilifeform: '"No president can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you," Rhodes wrote on Twitter.'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: it's vaguely amusing, just how idiotic the monkeys are.
asciilifeform: it gets better:
asciilifeform: 'Under U.S. law, a federal court would have to have found probable cause that the target of the surveillance is an "agent of a foreign power" in order to approve a warrant authorizing electronic surveillance of Trump Tower.' << this is the 'proof' apparently : 'if obummer did it, it Proves Ru Stooge'
mircea_popescu: lmao ok.
mircea_popescu: they need a new book.
asciilifeform: 'The 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical cleric and U.S. citizen who was killed in a drone strike in 2011, was reportedly among those killed Sunday during a raid in Yemen. The Guardian reported that Nawar al-Awlaki was killed after suffering a gunshot wound to the neck.' -- feb.2
asciilifeform: kick-the-dog.
asciilifeform: dog gotta stay freshly kicked at all times.
mircea_popescu: the audacity, you know. criminal head of terrorist state, and they dare even speak.
mircea_popescu: "oh, we were justified". bitch, the fucking towelheads say the exact same thing. you're all justified.
asciilifeform: recall ghadaffi's kid also.
asciilifeform: (iirc also 8 y.o. gurl, nailed on direct orders from reagan)
mircea_popescu: she was us citizen ?
asciilifeform: mno, but afaik the earlier one also not
asciilifeform: only dog-kick.
mircea_popescu: the daughter of us citizen wasn't us citizen ? how ?
asciilifeform: actually i have nfi if d00d was ever formally drummed out of usa citizenship
mircea_popescu: this isn't possible.
asciilifeform: it is possible on paper
asciilifeform: i got passport right here, pg. 7 says: 'under some circumstances, you may lose your u.s. citizenship...'
mircea_popescu: that;s a novel notion.
asciilifeform: now for some peculiar reason there are almost no cases.
mircea_popescu: the theory being that "the dude gve it up by pariticpating in something we call a military of something we won't call a state" ?
mircea_popescu: theory has no legal legs to stand on.
mircea_popescu: until and unless us recognizes the state of taliban-isis, the guy'\s not covered.
asciilifeform: probably why there appears to be 0 public record of any proceedings to revoke his citizenship
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, lack of citizenship dun seem to keep, e.g., noriega, from sitting in american jail )
asciilifeform: notice how it takes, what, six figs usd in dubious legal fees, to cancel u.s. citizenship voluntarily. and for no prosecution of anyone, ever, was it cancelled, quite the opposite, usg will happily extend honourary 'citizenship' to ~anyone, for $ 0 , and permanent room in the finest prison with it.
asciilifeform: citizen is easier, rather than harder, to hunt, various orgs that do business in usa are coaxed into proactively keeping tabs on'em; this was covered iirc in a few old mircea_popescu pieces re bank
mircea_popescu: i dunno what we're discussing now, but anyway. original point was re bahamas being a murderer liar etc.
asciilifeform: i'll point out that mr.t signed off on the 8yo corpse
asciilifeform: rather than obummer
asciilifeform: (who signed off on the first two, al-alwaki and his son)
asciilifeform: incidentally there is supposed to have been a mr.t ralley in dc today, but i found 0 mention of it on the net, 0 photos, etc.
asciilifeform: very very helpful google.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the fact that both trump and obama grabbed pussy is a detriment to the monkey.
mircea_popescu: trump said he was gonna.
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1694...1807 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( US CT)
deedbot: << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...4733 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <>; ' ( US CT)
BingoBoingo: lol ri.ri
Reuel: Hello guys, a bit of a tl;dr here
Reuel: I wanted to contribute, and it irks me to admit, but I don't think there is anything meaningful I can contribute at this moment
Reuel: So, for now, you will have to do with mere words: you have my sincere admiration
Reuel: mircea_popescu, I would love to do the experiment you talked about ->
a111: Logged on 2017-01-29 17:48 mircea_popescu: go do hdd profiling on large symlink load, very useful.
danielpbarron: join eulora
Reuel: however life is getting in the way at the moment, and I don't have time to go through all the TRB code, which is probably a must to understand the context of the experiment
Reuel: I also hold some items in eulora which I should give back if you are on
Reuel: There are 1001 questions I would want to ask here, but I'm starting to feel like a net taker which is a wretched feeling
danielpbarron: you should do work in eulora!
Reuel: vThe reason I keep buzzing around this place is that I get these pangs of inspiration when I visit, which is weird but great
Reuel: So I'll be going full lurk mode, except for maybe some feminine replies on Trilema, but let me at least leave a little something
Reuel: So I'll dedicate it to the republic
Reuel: ah are you on eulora?
danielpbarron: lol how is it possible two people have eulora accounts and don't know each other
Reuel: well I only did some minor tasks and didnt play again
danielpbarron: being a noob in eulora is a profitable venture, and it consists largely of being ready to do work when an elder needs work done
BingoBoingo: Reuel: Submit a piece to Qntra. Find idiots behaving dumbly and write it up.
Reuel: Yeah, but being profitable is not what I look for in a game per se
Framedragger: Reuel: just fyi, and it's only my humble opinion, but you don't need the context of the whole trb to do the symlink experiment. from what i took of it, it's a matter of testing how various filesystems (probably starting off with ext4) can manage with (very) large numbers of nodes and large numbers of links to nodes. how seek times increase with those numbers of links to links, etc. (as an fs overhead, on top of hdd/sdd).
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the thing is that by now i wouldn't trust the results anyway. dude clearly has nfi what he'd be doing.
Reuel: well I get the hard disk part, but not how it relates to bitcoin
Framedragger: aha, point taken - but reproducible documented methodology / code is still something.
danielpbarron: Reuel, i'm not inviting you to come have fun (although you will probably enjoy it) but you indicated you want to do work in the republic but don't know how. i have told you how
mircea_popescu: i guess so, but there seems no danger of such a wonder, so.
deedbot: << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), February 2017 Statement
Reuel: ok let me put it more bluntly, I didn't enjoy dragging tables across green hills
Reuel: I guess that can probably be automated
Reuel: BingoBoingo, does it have to be current?
Reuel: as in news
BingoBoingo: Yes, must be news.
Reuel: right
Reuel: Well there is a lot of failing going on in Dutch IT, I must say
danielpbarron: everything can be automated. the only limit is your own ability to code it
Reuel: danielpbarron, and time of course... but who knows
danielpbarron: what is this, "i want to work but only if it doesn't take any time"
Reuel: I want to work, and I will certainly give time
Reuel: like I said, I dont like to be a net taker but I don't have much time atm
mircea_popescu: lel check it out danielpbarron he stole your blog design!
mircea_popescu: lobbes i mean
Reuel: whats the link?
Reuel: BingoBoingo if something crosses my path I will write it up. Government IT/big IT fails of interest?
Reuel: Those are the gift that keeps on giving here
Reuel: Or the gift that keeps on taking, tax money that is
mircea_popescu: helps if it's bitcoin related.
Reuel: asciilifeform, box?
Reuel: ok
asciilifeform: Reuel: your www
Reuel: works for me
asciilifeform: Reuel: not long ago, dutch gov made tall claims of 'blockchain analysis for police work' voodoo. could investigate, translate, post to qntra re which charlatan is selling this 'service', and which bureaucrat on the take -- 'bought', and wtf it consists of
Reuel: hmm, there was something on the radio a few days ago about the Dutch central bank running blockchain tests
Reuel: internal
mircea_popescu: unrelated items.
Reuel: I'll check it out
Reuel: mircea_popescu, I have 2 items I want to return on eulora, are you on
danielpbarron: auction them :p
Reuel: nah theyre not mine
Reuel: he gave them for work
danielpbarron: so like.. as payment for?
Reuel: no they are part of the work hehe
danielpbarron: idk what those 2 items could possibly be
Reuel: well to be honest I thought I still had claim keys
Reuel: but
Reuel: I only seem to have 2 enumerations
Reuel: maybe my memory fails me
danielpbarron: not even worth returning
Reuel: ah ok
Reuel: thats worth nothng then?
danielpbarron: not 0, but not much
mircea_popescu: Reuel dun worry bout it
Reuel: ok...
deedbot: << Qntra - The Californian Dilemma Approaching Peak LOL
lobbes: << he designed a nice, light-weight layout, what can I say :D
a111: Logged on 2017-03-05 02:20 mircea_popescu: lel check it out danielpbarron he stole your blog design!
Framedragger: lobbes: any plan re. comments? curious if you have something without JS in mind. :) (this also answers (with quite a latency) mp's query - there's no viable solution *without captcha _and_ without JS*.)
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 23:48 mircea_popescu: << we don't ? when did this unhappen ?
Framedragger: (re. "coming soon" on lobbesblog)
lobbes: I almost want to try something like a !Qcomment command via lobbesbot that'd store comment in a sqlite db. I'm thinking I may be able to 'default deny' input that way, somehow.
lobbes: but I have not really thought it out much
Framedragger: ah, that's one way to do it, via a saner interface with much less cruft...
lobbes: right? then, if I was sure that the data coming in is not shit, I could perhaps automate the generating of the blawg pages, adding in comments from said db at whatever intervals
lobbes: but no idea how to handle selection of blog post text
Framedragger: << just checked and realised that your trilema comments don't seem to have any JS, so it seems like i was wrong. (i now realise i had a (rather arbitrary) additional constraint with the original comment long ago, "make it work with a static site", but that's another matter/project altogether.)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-05 03:46 a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 23:48 mircea_popescu: << we don't ? when did this unhappen ?
Framedragger: lobbes: selection as in on the website, to provide unique href to selection?
Framedragger: (i'd like a static site + comments-without-captcha-or-JS setup, too, yeah)
lobbes: yeah, seems like it'd be a pain for the commenter to have to manually input that info to the bot
Framedragger: i guess they could include blog post number at least, but then not full proper quotation as you say. arbitrary selection within a DOM element only possible with some JS (trilema and at least have that JS piece tucked nicely in one place, not a total horror)
Framedragger: so actually, if you were willing to use that text selection JS snippet, i guess it'd be possible, sorta. commenter would paste autogenerated link and write on irc ` << kewl`; but then how about overall comment length (have a way of indicating a multi-irc-line comment), etc...
lobbes: hm, yeah actually, I may end up going down that route
lobbes: I cannot think of any other way either without even a tiny bit of JS
lobbes: either that or I'll just leave it without the ability to properly quote an arbitrary selection.
Framedragger: my maybe-convoluted personal plan was to have a static site generator but to have the comment box be rendered by a dynamic component (hence loaded separately upon user clicking to comment, or sth.) that component does the 'fraud prevention without JS' magic (like with trilema's comments - IP address is sent to html form to be returned as hidden value / whatnot). when comment is submitted, it gets added to some queue
ben_vulpes: you know we have 'fraud prevention without js' already
Framedragger: (your sqlite could do, or something even simpler). when comment is approved, static site generator gets triggered to re-render necessary pages including 'newest comments' box (if present.) etc.
ben_vulpes: !!key Framedragger
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: yes, but it requires a dynamic component on the backend, right?
Framedragger: ah, dat
Framedragger: sure, but in that case one may as well just implement a gpggram-to-blog-comments interface (not that it's a wholly bad idea or anything)
Framedragger: it sure would be nice to just be able to post simple comments on a blogpage, tho.
ben_vulpes: fwiw i thought long and hard about this and ultimately migrated to mp-wp.
Framedragger: i should keep that in mind lest i become unnecessarily overexcited here.
ben_vulpes: my trinque-simulator sez "wtf with this sqlite; have a process listening for changes to the comments table and re-rendering the comments page upon submission"
Framedragger: a postgres trigger, of course
ben_vulpes: what else lol
ben_vulpes: anyways, doing it right is a small shitton of work, very nearly all of which and more is wrapped up in oldish wordpress.
ben_vulpes: the thing that finally sold me was unique footnote references across corpus.
Framedragger: ahh, that *is* nice to have, yeah!
ben_vulpes: aaand in other ultra amusing covers unearthed while partying at the cousins...
ben_vulpes: i have nfi what is in it, but spied the cover on the way out
Framedragger: (it's 4am here, fuck. g'night!)
ben_vulpes: wakefulness ad libitum!
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