Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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mats: TIL all of WoW's GUI is driven by XML and Lua
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/17/effective-government-regulation-of-bitcoin-in-china/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Effective government regulation. Of Bitcoin. In China.
mircea_popescu: mats aha.
mircea_popescu: "I am a female incel. In 3 weeks I will be a 25 year old virgin. A socially anxious, insecure, overweight, suicidal, complete failure. I'm going to die a kissless virgin. I will always be poor, always lack traditional beauty, always be an obtuse person. Intelligence and grace will never come naturally. And despite years of positivity about myself and with some idea that I was unique and beautiful in my own way, I realize-- th
mircea_popescu: at was denial and delusion. I am a genetic mistake. I'm a complete waste. I am disgusting. Here to forever be the "duff" (designated ugly fat friend). Equivalent to a pet dog." << riight, and i'm supposed to provide the gallons and bushels of wsod required to make this pass as in-character, somehow ? how!
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: hey therer
thestringpuller: mats: yea. that's so people could mod the interface for raids and shit.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: at was denial and delusion. I am a genetic mistake. I'm a complete waste. I am disgusting. Here to forever be the "duff" (designated ugly fat friend). Equivalent to a pet dog." << riight, and i'm supposed to provide the gallons and bushels of wsod required to make this pass as in-character, somehow ? how!
mircea_popescu: suppose you met an ant one day, and this and told you in morse code its whole genome.
mircea_popescu: thereby you know you're asleep and dreaming. because the machinery that'd allow the item know its dna precludes it being ant-shaped ; and the culture it requires to know morse precludes it being ant-substance.
asciilifeform: ants don't eat pistols though. people -- do. so sometimes they decode enough of 'own dna'.
mircea_popescu: and if they do, they go put it on reddit.
mircea_popescu: you know, every guy in kresty dreams of one day becoming basically like us, with enough money to buy a round for everyone. and they think that if they did get the money, that's how they used it.
mircea_popescu: yet, from experience, loads of kresty alumni do get rich eventually
mircea_popescu: yet how many rounds are bought ?
asciilifeform: perhaps better than harvard.
asciilifeform: there are indeed folx who quietly and decorously eat pistol, like gentlemen, without any reddit component. but because no reddit, there is no trivial telescope to see them through, and they do not leave 'good example' to those who must learn.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had an article about this.
mircea_popescu: it's altogether woman in question is going to eat anything. she's just as uterinely productive as any other viteline ; that she chooses to "have problems" is ultimately uninteresting.
mircea_popescu: altogether unlikely*
asciilifeform: uterinely productive ?
mircea_popescu: "Step 2. The state will maintain a fund for buying 18yo females for the puporse of populating the breeder farms - "
asciilifeform: i could think of many other animals i'd rather raise for meat
asciilifeform: but that's just me.
mircea_popescu: well that's you, yeah.
mircea_popescu: o look, the uterine / viteline thing dun work in english. aaanyway. "any other bovine" i guess.
asciilifeform: it'd be interesting to see what humans bred for 'long pig', 100+ generations, would look like.
mircea_popescu: in latin, vitellus (yolk, and such) comes from vitulus (bull calf). much like in german protein is "eggwhite" because... ALBUMIN
mircea_popescu: (yes, alb = white. in romanian and other languages)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: so. the more I read from people like Emin (a "respected" academic) the more sad I become that education is now a scam. maybe its true. can't beat stupid.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: who's that
thestringpuller: It would be snore for me too if he wasn't a professor teaching our kids nonsense.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try quitting reddit, it is better for you than even quitting cigarettes
thestringpuller: he's on more than just reddit.
asciilifeform: quite the 'on more' also then.
thestringpuller: quitting school? sounds better every day.
asciilifeform: srsly mircea_popescu had a very good article, re how to treat charlatans
thestringpuller: In Aldous Huxely's dystopia misinformation takes over real education. What are you left with when all the real people die off?
asciilifeform: the cockroaches, the ants.
asciilifeform: and quite possibly the real people died long, long ago.
trinque: also left with your own hands, and whatever you've done with them
trinque: not to mention that socialist education was a net loss
asciilifeform: trinque has it. all that's left is your own hands. 'if not you, then who' etc.
thestringpuller: dark ages 3.0
mircea_popescu graced the subte (subway) today. the advertising is something else! "pizza #1 por cantidad the queso por porcion".
mircea_popescu: what the fuck, why not buy some cheese if that's the criteria.
mircea_popescu: "this grana padano slice is the "pizza" with highest cheese per portion content ever : 100%"
asciilifeform: relatedly, i found that streets of odessa are all on 'google street', and discovered that ~every single cafe there is a mcdonalds now.
asciilifeform: and also that there is a ~monument of steve jobs~
mircea_popescu: heh. dorks.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, and BingoBoingo might find this interesting, i finally tamed one of the wildcats, but she died four days later. i dug grave at midnight, and wondered if neighbours would call police. but nobody did.
asciilifeform: ( was ~6 wks. old beast, and already very sickly when found. fed antibiotic, liquid food, etc. but no dice. asciilifeform will not be changing professions and running a zoo, nor a circus. )
asciilifeform: but i still have the fleas. so i suppose i could open flea circus.
mircea_popescu: you still have to train thsoe.
Framedragger: oh hm - commendable efforts asciilifeform, sad outcome :(
Framedragger: https://archive.is/Z6JDu << gabriel_laddel_p's "A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem", finally found time to read through it, not bad. guess it's been discussed before tho
Framedragger: !#s realistic solution
a111: 10 results for "realistic solution", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=realistic%20solution
Framedragger: i liked "incidental sexpr", too >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-09#1267282
a111: Logged on 2015-09-09 05:01 trinque: started with math, said "what if we didn't have any order of operations except those explicitly stated, and also "wtf re: infix anyway?"
hanbot: asciilifeform's feral cat appreciation nodule would prolly enjoy the pobrecitamos shore here (found only recently because super labyrinthine/unmarked pedestrian access). penniless 'fishermen' sit on concrete stumps and occasionally pull up ~minnow, cats abound, waiting for 'might as well throw it to the cats'. nevertheless they manage to be very skinny, and fairly confused.
mircea_popescu: lol pobrecitamo is quite an apt to describe the local retard.
mircea_popescu: "small big poorhead"
asciilifeform: there are fishermen in buenos aires ?!
asciilifeform: that water looked like bmore's, mostly sludge
asciilifeform: how can anything live there.
hanbot: "thing", "live"
mircea_popescu: here's a pro tip : the "vida de noche" etc fashionable resort is "mar del plata". from reports it's a) all fambly beach, very densely populated, NO PARTIES and b) deeply contaminated with sewage. they don't care.
mircea_popescu: will waddle through the characteristic ocre brown of sewage. soberania, argentina no es un pais pobre, etcetera.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my last summer near the black sea, there was ~no beach, closed, sewage.
mircea_popescu: you should see the riverfront here. miles of what anywhere else would be primo waterfront real estate, covered in old garbage.
asciilifeform: hanbot: no wonder the cats are thin, if they eat sludgefish
mircea_popescu: no development in sight, 100 feet to a highway. they put the fucking highway by the ~best land in town.
mircea_popescu: i don't think the depths of argentina imbecility can either be comprehended or described withouy a multi-year commitment. it's just a different planet down here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: t. dalrymple once wrote about a beach in liberia, where the locals would not even bother to build a latrine, just shat in the sand
asciilifeform: so perhaps similar.
mircea_popescu: anyone seriously looking for practical proof re the whole race-intelligence nonsense is invited to spend some time in buenos aires doing anything. start a bakery, i don't care.
mircea_popescu: the ivy league of argentina is not qualified to populate san quentin.
mircea_popescu: they're all white, but without exception the stupidest people i ever met.
mircea_popescu: and i met 1980s russian proletariat and whatnot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i saw quite a few old-fashioned greasy mechanic shops on the streets of b-a
asciilifeform: and my own mechanic here in monkeystan is from b-a, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: and i saw a bunch of parrots squeaking reveille.
asciilifeform: so perhaps that's one surviving culture.
hanbot was also harassed by uppity old women while trying to feed actual salmon scraps to local feline. it's enlightening, inasmuch as one realizes places that kinda suck for humans really suck for animals. you'd kinda hope cat > zombie but it just doesn't work out that way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it most pointedly it's not. see the noise discussion, where was it
asciilifeform: i bet mircea_popescu could have his 'chaika' fixed somewhere in b-a
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 20:49 mircea_popescu: it was long a low level puzzle this, "seriously, 2010 toyota sounds LIKE THAT ?!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orc mechanics naturally don't use original parts.
asciilifeform: (where would they get'em ?)
asciilifeform: hanbot: what did the old woman want
mircea_popescu: in the fucking shop ?
mircea_popescu: orc mechanics DO ATTEMPT TO CHARGE WHAT ACTUAL MECHANICS DO!
mircea_popescu: they think this is a country! that they should get rents! and salaries! and be paid! holy shit ?
asciilifeform: what can i say, i live in one of those also.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/postcards-from-retardistan/ << 2nd picture. orc real estate agent steals the windows and tries to charge what they do in miami. they're not simply orcs, not here.
mircea_popescu: "why shouldn't this be just like miami ? it's hot and by the water!" "yes, but miami is mostly party sluts and rich old jewish ex-party-sluts ; wheres buenos aires is the world's largest open air feebleminded reservation." "so ?"
hanbot: asciilifeform: she wanted to be important, i imagine. you shouldn't feed fish to cats, don'tchaknow, cause what if that's not what's good for them. this, ofc, buried in metric fuckton of babbling, todo biens, etc. i'm honestly ashamed i didn't outright sock her one. i end up questioning whether i've a moral imperative to massacre almost every time i venture out by now.
asciilifeform: hanbot: at least in this respect, my monkeystan wins. my neighbours actually compete with me for cat-restaurant attraction.
asciilifeform: but some folx get carried away, my next door old woman turned out to be 'cat hoarder', ended up in hospital somehow, and her relatives called in the d00dz in gas masks and chem suits
hanbot: fairly difficult for me to judge which state of affairs is sorrier
mircea_popescu: it's a thing with old women. classical witch with her cat is not exactly coincidental.
hanbot: why is it always cats, anyway? why not...butterflies? crystals? succulents?
mircea_popescu: cat is a preditor. the old woman is ~ a farmed animal, roughly in the sense of the afids ants keep.
mircea_popescu: yes there's a lot of cats to the crone which superficially contrasts the lots of sheep to the shepherd, but that is driven by the relative size not the actual relationship.
mircea_popescu: weasels lick blood and cats lick old women.
asciilifeform: now this is interesting, and has weight, because i actually envied the old woman her ability to get the cats to come indoors
mircea_popescu: you don't look like a sheep, even if in costume, mr wolfislav.
asciilifeform: evidently.
trinque: gotta wonder what role toxoplasmosis plays in the hoarding.
trinque admits *wanting to* find that infection drove these creatures to live in animal shit
asciilifeform: the problems of the cats are a scale model of the problems of the inhabitants of modern socialist monkeystans
asciilifeform: they congregate, unnaturally, around the concentrated (and typically quite unhealthy) food sources
asciilifeform: just like city dwellers.
trinque: "thing that ought to have died"
asciilifeform: when carnivorous beast lives in the forest, where it belongs, elementarily its population does not explode grotesquely as in old woman's basement etc.
asciilifeform: (it will, as is well-known, cycle, but not to absurd density of 'hoarder')
danielpbarron has 1 tame and 5 wild felines
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you should see the riverfront here. miles of what anywhere else would be primo waterfront real estate, covered in old garbage. << Just like Murican cities!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> unrelatedly, and BingoBoingo might find this interesting, i finally tamed one of the wildcats, but she died four days later. i dug grave at midnight, and wondered if neighbours would call police. but nobody did. << I usally bury dead critters found on premises as well. Just keep them out of the compost.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: actually i found this one a few blocks away, on a walk. spent considerable money and effort in attempt to grow it.
BingoBoingo: Ah, I usually don't see too incredibly young ones. Most often dead critters I find are smaller ones that seem to have been "cat entertainment"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in quite other non-news, apparently there is a ru clone ( http://oao-ka.ru/Vremennyj_katalog/Kanal_nye_shifratory_konfidecial_noj_informacii/APPARAT_ShIFROVANIJa_POTOKOV_CIFROVOJ_INFORMACII_SA295-1___KORD-KM__.htm ) of usg's 'taclane' channel cipherator.
asciilifeform: and it is even made by modern descendant of solzhenitsyn's famous employer.
trinque: is this precedent for chopped off dick == pardoned ?
trinque: seems entirely apt.
trinque: they should streamline this into a state-sanctioned rehabilitation program.
Framedragger: meh. dropping the whole 'all this is mayongenderism omg' forum kerfuffle, you think gender played an actual part here? :)
Framedragger: dropping for a bitŪ
Framedragger: for a bit*
trinque: I don't think you realize the politics behind it.
trinque: !#s dulap
trinque: ^ oblig
asciilifeform pictures a future mircea_popescu novella, 'dulap archipelago'
trinque: afternoon!
Framedragger: will honestly review. i don't want to appear completely naive here
mircea_popescu: trinque effects of toxoplasmosis is somewhat well studied. for one thing it's very prevalent. for the other, it DOES affect rat behaviour.
mircea_popescu: survey study, "Consistent and significant differences in Cattell's personality factors were found between Toxoplasma-infected and -uninfected subjects in 9 of 11 studies, and these differences were not the same for men and women."
a111: Logged on 2015-10-24 19:25 mircea_popescu: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/06/another_diagnosis_of_schizophr.html >> quite worth a read.
mircea_popescu: oh speaking of schizophrenia, anyone seen the film i watched last night and which is quite excellent on the topic but i can't rememeber its name ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read this (iirc, this very one) when it came out, and still question the arrow of causality here
mircea_popescu: ah, i'm not proposing anything of the sort, just giving some "stuff related", ie, that he's not entirely on his own
asciilifeform: (entirely plausibly, those with the described characteristics are simply more likely to pick up the microbe, rather than vice-versa)
mircea_popescu: or the cats. yep.
mircea_popescu: and in other news, after #chainstate ended up making people learn lisp, #eulora is now making people learn c
asciilifeform: everyone oughta know c.
asciilifeform: just like knowing how to use and clean kalash.
asciilifeform: it is an eternal thing.
jurov: except this kalash is c++
jurov: and the issue is null dereference in destructor
asciilifeform: aaah, that's not a kalash at all, but american m-whatever-with-shit-bolted-on-the-sides.
mircea_popescu: stop hatein!
ben_vulpes: crazy shit stick!
ben_vulpes: what wrong with you!
mircea_popescu: dude is learning difference between data and pointer to data, it's all good.
mircea_popescu: oh and also "danielpbarron> why would adding a declaration like this cause it to crash? apparently some other change i made that works without crashing on its own conflicts with this somehow".
mircea_popescu: i'd say it's very good crash course.
Framedragger: truns out `diff` and/or version control are useful :p "what shit did i change..."
danielpbarron: yes i'm looking at the diff now
Framedragger: cool stuff.
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: what, your diffulator doesn't tell you about c declaration conflicts?
mircea_popescu: he's new omaigerd. give him some space.
ben_vulpes: why aren't you using llvm to crap out asts and diff those?
ben_vulpes: i have more bad ideas if you want some
Framedragger: SafeSpace<SafePointer> space(); ?
mircea_popescu: this should be expressed in comic panel form
jurov: xkcd surely has one
ben_vulpes: wait no what you really want to do is compile the binaries pipe them through xxd and into vi where you can compare them bitwise
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: admit, you just read about this on HN
ben_vulpes: or hm maybe store them as rows in postgres
Framedragger: that google girl did it
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: it's called a "topical reference"
ben_vulpes: i am occasionally au courant
mircea_popescu: put some topical ointment on it
Framedragger: it's fashionable.
ben_vulpes: xxd, a fashion item.
mircea_popescu: it standas for very very dork amirite
ben_vulpes: tar means tape archive
ben_vulpes: what other jewels can we dig up today
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes be seriouse.
ben_vulpes: i'm seriously kidding
ben_vulpes: oh wait hey did you know that fundamental lisp constructs are named after registers on ancient machines? omglzozol
jurov: ben_vulpes: that's deprecated, they are properly named #'first and #'rest
ben_vulpes: i have more shitty jokes from hacker news
ben_vulpes: wait come back
ben_vulpes: i'm not done
ben_vulpes: jurov: hipster
mircea_popescu: i don't think hacker news is cool enough to be here
ben_vulpes: jurov: that's just syntactic sugar
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:16 mircea_popescu: "mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!"
jurov: looks like some NOx leaked from heathenchannel?
mircea_popescu: why, is time going by really really fast ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: drugs don't have any real effect
ben_vulpes: qualia are real
mircea_popescu: i'll never be fucking rid of that nonsense will i!
ben_vulpes: QUALIA ARE REEEEAL
jurov: ben_vulpes: qualia are just registers on ancient machines
ben_vulpes: jurov: registers on ancient machines are just syntactic sugar for qualia
mircea_popescu: next some nut is going to go around pretending ousia are speaking to him. which is so much better than you know, plain old teddybears and doorknobs.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: my tulpa takes offense.
mircea_popescu: i thought you had a wife.
ben_vulpes: my tulpa, wife, wife-tulpa and tulpa-wife all take offense
mircea_popescu: japanese pillows strictly verboten in conjugal bed.
ben_vulpes: unspeakable conjugations
mircea_popescu: seriously, what happens if you get one of these to define the qualia-tulpa difference ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-17#1604359 << much to my loving pride, when we ran across very confused kitten on walk girl repressed her inclination to push for same.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 18:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: actually i found this one a few blocks away, on a walk. spent considerable money and effort in attempt to grow it.
Framedragger: qaulia-tulpa... ...so yeah, most of philosophy is just the effects of dereferencing language-originating concepts which don't have a reference. one finds random data, or barfs, and proceeds to mystify results :(
mircea_popescu: not most of all. but contemporary/english "philosophy" is entirely equal to chatter-of-bored-iran-housewives.
mircea_popescu: and for the exact direct reason.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it so happens that i like felines of all types. (they do not, however, like me much.) so i picked up the half-dead one.
mircea_popescu: i liked them to, but i don't go around picking them up on the criteria of how much they need me to.
asciilifeform: she ended up jimmy hendrixing (threw up and choked on vomit) , and various maneuvers incl. mouth-to-snout didn't help.
mircea_popescu: imagine if that's how it worked, you'd all be married! thrice!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah it is just that normally i can't catch'em
asciilifeform: beast usually runs away.
ben_vulpes: well there were the graveyard cats
ben_vulpes: you seemed to get along with those adequately
mircea_popescu: i had no idea asciilifeform was an incatcel.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't steal the graveyard animals, they belong to the nuns
ben_vulpes: i don't keep cats, you don't need to caution me about taking them home.
ben_vulpes: fleas, toxoplasmosis
asciilifeform: ah ben_vulpes is dog aficionado yes
jurov: asciilifeform: next time lick the anus, it helps digestion
ben_vulpes: bwaaaa
mircea_popescu: in felines, it does.
asciilifeform: jurov: lel
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yeah, the beasts i keep find cats entertaining prey
asciilifeform: jurov: i did not go to veterinary school, did not know this algo.
mircea_popescu knows woman used to do it for jaguars at zoo.
ben_vulpes: child even would probably rend cat limb from limb within week
mats: wild cats are pests
mircea_popescu: that's kinda thesubstance of this thread yes.
asciilifeform: mats prefers wild rats ?
ben_vulpes: also pests?
mats: i prefer that my neighbors avoid supporting pests that annihilate the local fauna
ben_vulpes: i prefer extinguishing all fauna and covering the landscape in identical plastic potemkin suburbs
asciilifeform: mats: the pest next to whom all other local-fauna annihilators pale in comparison, is human.
ben_vulpes: filling water table with esoteric natgas extraction byproducts and lighting tapwater for lols
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-17#1604365 << they were hurr durring about how if he doesn't then nobody will for a while now.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 22:35 trinque: is this precedent for chopped off dick == pardoned ?
mats: asciilifeform: similarly, i prefer that my neighbors avoid supporting local homeless populations
mats: but thankfully this isn't such a massive problem as in, say, San Francisco, San Diego
mats: too cold.
asciilifeform: mats: it is quite like hanging out with d00d who runs a massive, 19th-c.-style 'hellish mill', spewing coal smoke, but objecting to the smell of his cigar.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-17#1604368 << "gender" has no bearing on the "indentity politics" construction of "gender". what mattered was that private bradley edward manning was with the usg.dos and against the usg.dod. as it doesn't look likely usg.dos will even survive the trump terms, let alone ever again come to preminence, they'll do anything.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-17 22:37 Framedragger: meh. dropping the whole 'all this is mayongenderism omg' forum kerfuffle, you think gender played an actual part here? :)
ben_vulpes: mats: this year's freeze killed some homeless people, to the endlessly amusing horror of many locals
mats: life ben_vulpes: why not universal basic income?!11
mats: er, ignore that prepended life.
mircea_popescu: wtf is ssi ? they already get ~700 a month
ben_vulpes: mats: sure, let's go for it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: folx with no post box dun get nuffin
ben_vulpes: definitely going to decrease the cost of living
asciilifeform: (see gabriel_laddel for instance.)
ben_vulpes: mats: so long as i get some, whatever
ben_vulpes: i am all for increasing social programs
ben_vulpes: increasing the national debt
ben_vulpes: employing and accustoming armies of bachelors degrees holders to a 'nice middle class life'
mircea_popescu: seems pretty much the only reasonable play. usg is beyond fixing, so steal as much as possible.
mircea_popescu: makes obama activity quite logical in fact.
ben_vulpes: accelerate the weimar days. let's go.
mats: a yes, the welfare recipient is a tru patriot
mircea_popescu: the patriot pointer was dereferenced long ago.
ben_vulpes: cut taxes, increase social benefits. raise the debt ceiling, it's not like it actually matters, what the government doesn't balance its checkbook like a household omg
mircea_popescu: the us had a "nationalization moment", when it attempted to become a nation (much like serbia did recently ; and got bombed for it by the same people).
ben_vulpes: just borrow more!
ben_vulpes: so easy.
mircea_popescu: the result was that the national nucleus got crushed.
mircea_popescu: and so there isn't such a thing as a patriot in that place since about the civil war, give or take.
ben_vulpes: mats: forgive me, but what's a "patriot" in this context?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: every year in washington there is a parade of grim motorcyclists with long, white beards. they served in vietnam. and naive description could be 'patriot' but they have the specific patriotism of folx who sat in same jail together. specifically focus on 'missing POWs', parading with black flags with barbed-wire head, etc.
mircea_popescu: kresty group loyalty is not patriotism as the prison is not a nation even if you include its culture.
asciilifeform: aha. is the point.
asciilifeform: it is the only kind of 'patriotism' in usa.
mats: ben_vulpes: a person that loves their country!
mircea_popescu: most everything down there is cheap plastic copy of yurpean item huh
mircea_popescu: mats and what is a country ?
asciilifeform sings, 'с чего начинается родина...'
mircea_popescu: technically : a patriot is a person who is willing to die in order to keep people who don't belong in his country out of his country.
mats: i thought i was a patriot for a stretch.
mircea_popescu: love dun so much enter, the notion is fundamentally self-abortive ; and there's no "for" as such.
mircea_popescu: i actually became a patriot with the invention of tmsr, whodda thunk it. i never thought i would care enough.
ben_vulpes: !!up agustin
deedbot: agustin voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: WHO GOES THERE
agustin: Just curious.
ben_vulpes: ohai!
ben_vulpes: welcome, then.
agustin: hey :)
agustin: Thank you very much.
ben_vulpes: you have a gpg key?
ben_vulpes: agustin: ^^
ben_vulpes: anyways, mats, pretty sure that us lost 90% of our generation with the "don't let the terrorists win! keep buying shit! and supporting Our Great Corporations!" at the tail end of 2001.
mats: you mean you didn't believe Krugman when he said Debt is Good?!
mats: anyway, this is a bit circle-jerk-y, so ill stop
mircea_popescu: fucking quisman. there's always a bunch of these, and then they pretend to history.
mircea_popescu: "we said the exact thing that someone was going to have said anyway in those circumstances and this should be recorded with a name associated." dude... why the everloving fuck already.
ben_vulpes: one point of contact at $bigcorp's name was actually quisling
ben_vulpes: hysterically apt.
mats: now that POTUS has commuted Manning's sentence, i wonder if Assange is going to come in, as per https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713
asciilifeform: eh, harmless pederast pardoned today does not mean actual ENEMY OF ZE PEEPLE pardoned tomorrow
mats: i'm not headed there, just curious if he's going to fly into us for trial and anal soldering
ben_vulpes: "b-b-b-but i didn't siiiign that tweet!"
agustin: I have a gpg key now.
jurov: “Mr. Snowden fled into the arms of an adversary and has sought refuge in a country that most recently made a concerted effort to undermine confidence in our democracy.”
jurov: etc. etc.
mircea_popescu: mats it is a "maximum damage" strategy, isn't it.
ben_vulpes: agustin: you want to then register per http://deedbot.org/help.html
ben_vulpes: but before you do, please ensure they key does not expire.
mircea_popescu: jurov "Mr." is rapidly becoming the superlative of that whole string with "embattled" and "controversial"
agustin: The key does not expire I created it that way.
mircea_popescu: good choice.
ben_vulpes: THEN PROCEED, STRANGER
agustin: on my way.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, esp. in light of recent ipv6 crapolade 0day in linux kernel, https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg100329.html :
asciilifeform: '... the demonstrated fact that they are unwilling to make the well documented changes to deploy IPv6 because they simply refuse to make a change, or to learn something new. ... In the beta version of Windows XP I made sure IPv6 was ON-BY-DEFAULT, with no knob to turn it off, because I knew that given the option enterprise administrators would turn it off. I lost the battle in the shipping version though, and sure enough the first
asciilifeform: things that showed up on search engines were instructions for how to turn IPv6 off.'
jurov: i recommend clicking next by thread, it only gets lulzier
asciilifeform: i did, it was glorious
asciilifeform: e.g., 'demonetize IPv4 addresses and the problem will solve itself. there is financial inertia on the side of retaining v4 only stack networks.'
asciilifeform: these are ~exactly~ the 'we missed the bitcoin train!111 rewind the clock!' folx
deedbot: 708F90EFE1A32427B6B5A131E347DD5E18F190C6 registered as agustin.
mircea_popescu: solving "scalability" problems that only exist in their nutty heads.
ben_vulpes: !!rate agustin 1 can follow instructions
asciilifeform: or how about instead we 'demonetize' their princeton degrees. or 'scale' them.
mircea_popescu: yeah im also quite impressed. who are you an' what do you do agustin ?
asciilifeform: or their suburban cardboard boxes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but we already have, so there is that.
ben_vulpes: !!v ED367D99B8EB14ADF4882A0C63D1CC6CD78D1FC51F82394E54F1364BE5669B6D
deedbot: ben_vulpes rated agustin 1 << can follow instructions
ben_vulpes: agustin: ready to up yourself?
ben_vulpes: "we blamed the operators. we blamed the cpe vendors. we blamed the router vendors. and now we blame the users. it's always someone else's fault."
ben_vulpes: i will take delivery of the lols, tyvm
ben_vulpes: "can we killer app it"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes fine example of how schelling points actually work, btw.
ben_vulpes: omfg top notch
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: aye
ben_vulpes: i see it
ben_vulpes: agustin: well now you'll *need* to !!up yourself
ben_vulpes: open project for #tmsr acolytes: scrape chainstate for time delta between blocks for the past few days, calculate average and first std dev.
ben_vulpes is rewriting logger, would do it otherwise.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes your notion of making channel log one single line is hindering bashing pointlessly.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pardon?
mircea_popescu: curl http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2017-1-17 | sed "s/span>/\n/g" | grep "m, " | awk -F ", " '{print $3$4}' | sed 's/m/*60+/ ; s%s</%%' << model for above task :D
ben_vulpes: oh oh
mircea_popescu: iirc those can be directly imported into statistix package of one's choice.
mircea_popescu: if anyone needs a refresher on that tony hain politruk, https://archive.is/CIFhA
mircea_popescu: 16 years ago, this "python 3" thingee.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-18 00:02 ben_vulpes: open project for #tmsr acolytes: scrape chainstate for time delta between blocks for the past few days, calculate average and first std dev.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ^^
mircea_popescu: !!up Ingolfr_Arnarson
deedbot: Ingolfr_Arnarson voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: curl http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/blocks.txt | sed "s/span>/\n/g" | grep "m, " | awk -F ", " '{print $3$4}' | sed 's/m/*60+/ ; s%s%%' | bc << that has pretty much everything that's needed. fiddle the awk to make an acumulator then print a 2nd colum,n with the sdev etc.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: agustin againhere, messed up not remembering the gpg passphrase just created. And changed my nickname for the name I go around usually.
deedbot: 8EC5D12F9914F85DAF2304356A533C6C941BB0D9 registered as Ingolfr_Arnarson.
mircea_popescu: prolly better to import it in r anyway
mircea_popescu: (aka gnu s)
Ingolfr_Arnarson: !!up Ingolfr_Arnarson
deedbot: You may not !!up yourself.
ben_vulpes: !!rate Ingolfr_Arnarson 1 new blood
ben_vulpes: !!v 61A580475F8BE8AEDD7DE7295076F5BCF077307B8CEBD36432DF8B34F48A7AD7
deedbot: ben_vulpes rated Ingolfr_Arnarson 1 << new blood
ben_vulpes: Ingolfr_Arnarson: try again
Ingolfr_Arnarson: !!up Ingolfr_Arnarson
deedbot: Ingolfr_Arnarson voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: well that's an interesting result
ben_vulpes: trinque: ^^ "for 30 minutes"?
ben_vulpes: Ingolfr_Arnarson: indulge me for a second, i'm going to down you and then would you up yourself?
ben_vulpes: !!down Ingolfr_Arnarson
phf: hehe
phf: !!up phf
deedbot: phf voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: now we wait
mircea_popescu: !!down phf
deedbot: mircea_popescu may not !!down phf.
mircea_popescu: i doubt it'll devoice you
ben_vulpes: Ingolfr_Arnarson: you'll hafta pm deedbot if you haven't figured that out yet
Ingolfr_Arnarson: It working as expected now?
ben_vulpes: appears to be, yes.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Good. Thanks.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Mircea asked me to introduce myself before, I'll type about myself a bit now and then press enter.
trinque: ben_vulpes: well he specified his own name
ben_vulpes: trinque: i see
trinque: I could go all UX designer over here but seems the opposite of urgent.
ben_vulpes: nono i understand how it works now
ben_vulpes: like i did two months before
mircea_popescu: i was thinking "hey, this is a recurring vulpes thing"
ben_vulpes: Ingolfr_Arnarson: you writing a novel?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I am a normal guy with a normal work, who for some strange life chances ended up into libertarianism (politics until turning full ancap) and around the bitcoin community here. There is where I knew someone who let me know about Mircea's posts and about this channel. I am into coding, into maths, physics and of course crypto. And trying to organize a better society without state. I think that's all that may be relevant to say now. Any questions?
mircea_popescu: well nothing there's very specific, but sure.
asciilifeform: Ingolfr_Arnarson: do you have a www ?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: (hold on, phone)
Ingolfr_Arnarson: !!down Ingolfr_Arnarson
mircea_popescu: watch that the dude turns out to be perfectly sane AND from argentina, ruining my whole stereotype.
phf: Framedragger: that movie about whores is nice. it's only spoiled by an occasional "poignant" bjork style soundtrack. i couldn't figure out if it's trying to cue you when you're supposed to feel sad, or if the director just likes that kind of music..
mircea_popescu: which one is this ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-15 19:10 Framedragger: another film recommendation by association - documentary: "whore's glory" - by one glawogger (who died from malaria or somesuch while filming in liberia or somewheresuch), a bunch of interviews with whores in bangladesh, thailand etc
trinque: actually I'll probably go ahead and sand off that rough edge; it's confusing.
mircea_popescu: trinque there's really nothing wrong with people being able to noob-up themselves.
danielpbarron: he should have typed just !!up
Ingolfr_Arnarson: asciilifeform: I do not have a www created. Just owning www.ancapia.com, trying to design the best plan to make it a guide for people into voluntaryism or to turn it into an actual virtual nation conforming instructions. If possible. If I decide it is not, then I'll drop it and dedicate onto other projects I have.
danielpbarron: should put a blog there
phf: "plan a: create nation state. plan b: hack on some python code"
Ingolfr_Arnarson: But... is another blog needed?
danielpbarron: you have a blog already? then no, a second blog is not needed
Ingolfr_Arnarson: No but a lot of people have and are saying things better than I could.
trinque: Ingolfr_Arnarson: where would I find another actual virtual nation?
trinque tends to think the ancap thing is a developmental stage.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I heard there is a republic running in here. Also bitcoin could work as one if it doesn't fail in an unexpected way.
trinque: first comes the "fuck you I won't do whatcha tell me," then later one considers that in a competitive arena, things tend to sort.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: And don't forget realizing one can try to sort out things without *having* to kill each other.
trinque: surely killing a person might be a waste, but one would have to bother to define person before using the term
trinque: if non-personhood drowns out personhood, then what?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I have a definition under the ancap 'contract'
danielpbarron: Ingolfr_Arnarson, a blog is not only for you to judge the world, but for the world to judge you
Ingolfr_Arnarson: danielpbarron: I could answer to that saying that I only need judgment from people I interact directly , BUT maybe I am wrong so I will ponder about that statement.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: trinque: If you replace "Ancap" by "Person" in this, it is how I define it. https://s27.postimg.org/7xfkjiokj/Ancap_Agreement.png
Ingolfr_Arnarson: (back on the phone, sorry, brb, if i do bb)
Ingolfr_Arnarson: !!down Ingolfr_Arnarson
phf: Когда у меня один грамм кц есть, тогда желтые штаны носить мочь. И передо мной пацак не один, а два раза должен приседать и “ку” говорить. Ясно? А если у меня два грамма кц есть, я малиновые штаны носить мочь, и меня энцилопп ночью не имеет права бить.
phf: А если я больше трех грамм кц спрятал, то передо мной и чатланин на чатланской планете должен приседать и “ку” говорить. Ясно?
asciilifeform: + 'Плюк - чатланская планета, поэтому мы, пацаки, должны цаки носить.'
jurov: what does it mean? i mean, semantically?
jurov: at least, what is кц?
asciilifeform: jurov: very difficult to explain. cult film, from 1980s. кц was currency used by oddball aliens on their planet. turned out to ~= ordinary matches from earth.
mircea_popescu: plan a: create nation state. plan b: hack on some python code. plan c: kill some unloved males.
phf: movie is sort of an absurdist take on cargo cultism. in this case the quotes are instructions on social ritual on a backwards planet, that are obviously meaningless. a su viewer would see parallels to own life
asciilifeform: wtf spinal deformity is that.
mircea_popescu: phf you seen the exterminating angel ?
phf: one man's spinal deformity is another man's dat arch
mircea_popescu: as it happens i was just watching it, talk of coincidences.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is not a deformity, that is a learned behaviour. girl is supposed to be able to take that pose or else needs to work out more.
mircea_popescu: !#s lordosis behaviour
a111: 3 results for "lordosis behaviour", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=lordosis%20behaviour
phf: this exterminating angel looks neat, i'll put it in the backlog
mircea_popescu: it's exactly equivalent, bunch of "aliens" (spanish high society) just lose it.
mircea_popescu: and the fact that they notice they're losing it does not help them.
shinohai: Road Rash
phf: huh apparently obama administration shut down yucca mountain repository project back in 2011, http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/05/10/10greenwire-gao-death-of-yucca-mountain-caused-by-politica-36298.html?pagewanted=all
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-18#1604688 << the problem is that what you want and what you need don't readily map.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-18 01:57 Ingolfr_Arnarson: danielpbarron: I could answer to that saying that I only need judgment from people I interact directly , BUT maybe I am wrong so I will ponder about that statement.
mircea_popescu: it turns out on meditation that the blue-and-red usg as a matter of practical gnosis stands doubled by the subjective-objective vs need-want spurious equivalences. the charade promises "girls" that what they think is what is ; AND boys that what they want is what they need.
mircea_popescu: it's not just "feminist" that has to be either taught at moderate expense to think what is rather than expect what she thinks to be is'd at fabulous expense ; it's also "ancap" that has to be either taught to want what he needs at moderate expense rather than expect he wants will be made to be what he actually needs, at yet another fabulous expense.
mircea_popescu: in which perspective, "stop whining, you weren't raped, it's called reproduction" on one hand and "shut it, you can't have ideas, you're not a person" become quite readily equivalent mirror processes of de-subhumanization.
mircea_popescu: Ingolfr_Arnarson who the hell makes pngs out of text, srsly now. and how exactly is "anarcho capitalism" supposed to have morphed into this nonsense "i am afraid of the dentist" "nonviolence" bullshit ? violence is great for you ; arguably the best of the various available tools in nature's arsenal.
mircea_popescu: as presented this is just a tedious rehash of us-style evanghelism, itself a tedious rehash of catolicism, itself a tedious rehash of orthodox xtianity. there's ~0 need of re-re-re-re-doing a stupid idea, seriously now.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker, imagine if these pansy-ass "ancaps" end up in power, and fail to hang ~everyone who was ever involved with a us political party in any capacity because "oh that'd be violent". holy shit you don't like reading history do you.
asciilifeform: imagine if mircea_popescu's potted datura stramonia bush ended up in power.
mircea_popescu: machinegun the fucking tsar, yo. that's ~the only thing the russkis did right.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's pretty much why i said "imagine" rather than suppose.
phf: building a virtual nation and ~starting~ with question of physical violence seems odd
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-18#1604691 << this isn't necessary; you don't have to devoice when not present.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-18 02:00 Ingolfr_Arnarson: !!down Ingolfr_Arnarson
Ingolfr_Arnarson: trinque, got it, actually I know I was just playing with the feature as when *muting* in a conference :P
Ingolfr_Arnarson: mircea_popescu, Is violence is so good, may I ask how much violence do you need on yourself in your life?
mircea_popescu: the problem with your question is that it presumes an equality that's not there. i beat my slaves whenever they need it, though.
mircea_popescu: phf i imagine it's descriptive, the end goal is supposed to be some sort of world where nobody can possibly get one upside the head no matter what.
mircea_popescu: seems a worthy continuation of the insanity that got the us in its present pickle in the first place. first, no child left behind, then, no to bullying, finally, "no violence". if a little bit of shit in the soup made it bad, and a little more made it worse, surely the solution is pure turd potage.
mircea_popescu: Ingolfr_Arnarson if you don't like the usg messing with you, the solution is emplaced m-2 machine guns and zirconium-based armor-piercing/incendiary rounds. not silly pngs.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: But did you ask your slaves how much violence from you they need in their lives? There is no problem in the question, because it is a question that can be asked to someone who can actually have a choice. The slaves don't, even if they'd rather have zero violence in their lives, you do have a choice, hence I can ask you the question.
mircea_popescu: well these slaves are slaves by choice. but in general, the concept of choice is groundless in this discussion. what basis would they choose on ? they know what they want and can't know what they need.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Your 2 machine guns are part of your legitimate defense. You can use violence, all you want. But if you want to conform a community that works as one, then you need to agree that among yourselves you won't be nasty.
mircea_popescu: and why do you need to agree ?
mircea_popescu: tmsr worked fine with no prior agreement. you have an exceptional standard of evidence before you to support that thesis.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: if they choose to be slaves, and know being slaves, then it's not violence exactly. Violence is when you didn't want to get beaten.
mircea_popescu: looky : violence IS something in itself. there's no such license available, "it's not violence because of tulpas, qualias and other mentalisms". either the vase is glass, or the vase is not glass.
mircea_popescu: what anyone involved or not involved feels or thinks on the topic must not get mixed into it. that's what "is" means.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I am afraid without the limits of qualias then everything is violence and if everything is violence then it is useless to even use a word for it.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly the point here.
mircea_popescu: and as a metholodogical principle : when you discover that your notion is baseless, the correct response is not to try and prop it up. the correct response is to get rid of it.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I apologize for using the word violence, because I know it is already being used in many ways that can be used to distort a specific meaning put on a so much touched symbol. Maybe I should use another word without participation in the already established language games.
mircea_popescu: are you familiar with how the whole wot thing works, in practice, from the logs ?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: should re read
mircea_popescu: can't hurt. in any case, you don't need any prior agreement. there already exists, and in practice works, a self-righting mechanism for the same purpose.
mircea_popescu: we've been testing it extensively, over years, it's mostly a solved problem.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Of course I don't think that the 'ancap agreement' makes people fulfill it automatically by just saying they will, and there is an additional actual effective system needed to 'enforce' the agreement in a concrete way.
mircea_popescu: which actual effective system also makes the "ancap agreement" spurious, as it happens.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: and i agree wot is the best way.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Yeah. But it makes it happen. :)
mircea_popescu: are you married ?
mircea_popescu: do you have the agreement ready for that ?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: what would be such agreement?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, a png i expect. same as here, neh ?
mircea_popescu: how come you understand how broken nonsense is when it's close to home yet somehow memory hole that understanding when discussing more distant matter ?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: some contracts negotiations are harder than others :P
mircea_popescu: oh i see
mircea_popescu: you know socialists of the "idealist" type have this in common, that they expect classes of solutions to "be right" in general but not in their own practice ?
mircea_popescu: people don't tend to look too highly on this style, also known as "not eating own dogfood".
Ingolfr_Arnarson: but i didn't say i wouldn't take a contract, it means you have just touched a sensitive point in my life due to the complexity of actors involved with different interests (she, me, her family) that we need to provide of part in the contract because of trying to live in peaceful terms with them after it and still get with our own plans.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: But I get your point.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why you imagine the perisexual arrangements of a coupla people are notably important. seems to me to be by far the least important and least complex item there is.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: It's useless to try to establish a contract to solve an issue is way less irrelevant that the way you make sure people can trust each other to give what was promised.
mircea_popescu: that didn't parse.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Well, it depends, when your gf is from a conservative half hindu half muslim family you have to deal with complexity around the perisexual arrangements.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: Sorry, true, that didn't parse.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the trade in women was the first, historically, and throughout history in aggregate remains the most notable trade arrangement. it is neither exceptional not an improper subject of the discussion. exactly in the same way you settle all trade, you settle your nuptials ; and vice-versa.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: It's useless to try to make a contract to solve an issue because the contract is way less relevant than the way you maximize the probabilities of getting what you want (i.e. buying from a scammer vs someone who was doing well for long -can still turn into a scammer anytime but less chances).
mircea_popescu: so do what every sane male ever did : proscribe the parents, dekulakize them of the daughter, problem solved.
mircea_popescu: may take some violence (tm) which is entirely fine.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: that's why you pay them.
mircea_popescu: how much does half muslim - half hindu girl cost these days ?
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I am still trying to figure out the price, I'll let you know when the deal is settled.
mircea_popescu: fwiw i wouldn't even consider the deal. pay, really ? heh.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: You have to pay something, even if it is participating in a ridiculous hinduist ritual, and other things, so they are satisfied and leave you alone.
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: i will know.
Ingolfr_Arnarson: k, i'm gone, until next time. :)
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