BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 766.36, vol: 4806.11493697 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 758.387, vol: 3488.09214 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 765.78, vol: 10231.54029497 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 774.02763, vol: 935485.94050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 767.358, vol: 842.78398918 | Volume-weighted last average: 773.837638236
BingoBoingo: !!up ser
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes.
ser: i'm just a silent reader
BingoBoingo: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
ser: an architect. he is dying at the moment
ser: because of tobacco addiction
BingoBoingo: That's very sad.
BingoBoingo: Hope he finds Peace.
ser: i told him to quit dozens years ago
BingoBoingo: Addiction is weird.
ser: especially such stupid one
BingoBoingo: It's easy to become powerless over nicotine, but very hard to see how it makes life unmanageable until the end.
ser: it's like taking a 140y mortgage :)
BingoBoingo: !!up ser
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Nah, for most people if you get a low interest rate 140 year mortgage is great. Very low payments.
ser: but grandchildren are not being asked if they like it, as they are usually unborn
BingoBoingo: Grandchildren get it even better because inflation. Movie tickets used to cost a nickle!
ser: swedish parliament recently limited mortgages to 105 years maximum only
BingoBoingo: That's only six years longer than "traditional" maximum lease!
ser: Royal Bank of Scotland did not pass "stress tests" whaterver it means
ser: what is your estimation - how much money is lacking?
ser: XX billions, XXX billions, XXXX billions?
ben_vulpes: there are only 21 million bitcoin, so if they're that short they may be in a bit of a tight spot
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/08/a-brief-discourse-on-sovereignty/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A brief discourse on sovereignty.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> diana_coman for some reason it decided i'm anonymous lol. <- fixed; weird though, as I can't seem to be able to reproduce whatever the issue was
Framedragger: random question: have there been considerations for introducing financial instruments to eulora at some point, for trade etc? just curious
Framedragger: !#s futures eulora
a111: 0 results for "futures eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=futures%20eulora
Framedragger: !#s derivatives eulora
a111: 1 result for "derivatives eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=derivatives%20eulora
diana_coman: Framedragger, you are probably better off searching the logs of the eulora channel
diana_coman: I vaguely recall some discussion touching a bit on that
Framedragger: diana_coman: ah, good idea, thanks :)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2192...4261 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '22.214.171.124 (ssh-rsa key from 126.96.36.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2379...9311 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman issue might have been my accidentally leaving field empty.
mircea_popescu: ser> what is your estimation - how much money is lacking? << more than exists, basically.
mircea_popescu: ie, if the govt prints ten times what rbs has and gives it to them, it will improve nothing, just increase the "how much more they need" by a factor of tenish.
mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
EDLionX: heyy all
EDLionX: I'm not a Kid
EDLionX: that's all
diana_coman is waiting for BingoBoingo to ask "who's your daddy?"
mircea_popescu: EDLionX can you translate from chinese ?
EDLionX: what ya need bossman
mircea_popescu: a that's nice to know.
mircea_popescu: not right now, but occasionally there's news items that get poorly translated to en by idiots
mircea_popescu: actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ?
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://threatpost.com/hackers-gamify-ddos-attacks-with-collaborative-platform/122290/
mircea_popescu: i thought they gamified with the "loic" thing a decade ago
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://archive.is/rSEYe << whats with all the bs sites that don't work
Framedragger: EDLionX: there's a bunch of boxes with factored ssh keys, would be great for someone to go through them and check what webserver crap they're running... http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574580 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574597 if interested, go ahead :p
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 16:35 asciilifeform: http://220.127.116.11 << 'Partido Obrero Secretaria de Prensa'
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 16:50 asciilifeform: anyway, i have neither the time (presently grunting out a much-delayed and urgent item) nor inclination to do the entire backlog (what, 800 of these?! by now) by hand.
Framedragger: see ip addresses in this list, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nfi, perhaps overzealous ip blok ban
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've run into quite a few of these
mircea_popescu: Framedragger he's an english/math teacher not a coder from what i gather.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect bad https.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no coding really needed, mind you! at least not for this 'phase' of analysis. but ya sure
EDLionX: oh hey yeah Frame, no offense, but you just completely assblasted me
Framedragger: hmm, a rather visual answer, fair nuff :p well, glory awaits someone!
mircea_popescu: Framedragger really, shouldn't just run the scan on port 80 ?
Framedragger: the particular scanner used for extracting pubkeys is not meant for that kind of stuff, but.. the first phase thing ("check who's alive") can grab banners, yeah.. would require fiddling (connections would become stateful, right now first phase uses 'SYN cookies') but ya sure possible
Framedragger: i guess i should rerun the scanner at some point at any rate
mircea_popescu: i suppose even something as simple as curl $item would work really huh.
Framedragger: for some initial additional data, i think so yeah..
mircea_popescu: no i mean, to see if live webserver.
mircea_popescu: cat iplist.txt | while read ip; do curl -A "blabla" "http://$ip/" > results.txt; done
Framedragger: (ah. suresure. well if one plans to do that on millions of machines or more, better to use simple tcp sockets hm. say that masscan for 1st phase uses its own tcp stack to not exhaust kernel handles accidentally, etc...)
mircea_popescu: afaik the phuctor list is like 1k or so ips by now no ?
Framedragger: yes, something like that.
shinohai: Just waiting to be Framedragged: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxk9H4eUcAE7xCv.jpg
mircea_popescu: that ssd 3 hui gate is not bad either.
Framedragger: HuiGate? so like, a pussy?
Framedragger just made a shitty .ru joke and is very proud of it
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman https://instagram.fsst1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/15403578_1040577492731424_4285726398984749056_n.jpg << this look like anything to you ?
diana_coman: bwahahhaa; when we were made pioneers we had this picture by the flag thing
diana_coman: quite the same, esp the face of that guy
diana_coman: "cultural production capacity"
mircea_popescu: it is still alive!
mircea_popescu: including the fucking machined rug. everything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the things to scan, that very often are found: 80 (http), 443 (ssl), and if either found, the page; if ssl -- the cert id strings (see l0gz for how) , and lastly, ftp (yes, believe or now) and telnet greetings.
diana_coman: clearly, yes; tbh I had this uneasy feeling of totally back to the 80's when I went to Belarus some ...hm, 7 years ago already
diana_coman: but I don't expect it really changed all that much either
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a right, must not forget telnet.
asciilifeform: but it only makes sense to do this to popped boxes, Framedragger's ssh scan requires just 1 SYN, but these other things - 10,001 times moar
mircea_popescu is too lazy to edit the bash above, but anyway
asciilifeform: sshello=`timeout -k 0m 3s nc $ip 22`;
asciilifeform: ^ line from bash script, gives sshd greeting from $ip if exists
asciilifeform: curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq
asciilifeform: ^ gives list of ips in question
asciilifeform: e.g., for ip in `curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq`; do ...something with $ip..... done
asciilifeform: more or less self-explanatory.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1513...1869 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...9417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ? << You'd have to be a bit more specific
mircea_popescu: there was some badly translated "proceeds of miner conference" sometime earlier this year
mircea_popescu: sadly that's about the extent of my recollection ;/
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-03#1039158 << found it|!
a111: Logged on 2015-03-03 01:48 BingoBoingo: So... Anyone here know chinese? Good enought to translate a Hand complete police report?
BingoBoingo: Oh my
mircea_popescu: and in today's "very early trilema article remarkably on point", http://trilema.com/2011/ce-probleme-rezolva-ecologia/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re ^ and the part where the asian folk donated jewelry to motherland's central bank , quite reminiscent of the 'old woman who bought t-34 tank and named it after stalin and her five dead sons' recurring item in ww2
asciilifeform: i.e. i have nfi how many parts fact to how many parts propagandistic swill
mircea_popescu: it seems credible to me qualitatively ; quantitatively i have nfi.
asciilifeform: i can actually see the tank;
asciilifeform: but, why the fuck would anyone donate family gold to prop up emperor's golden toilet
mircea_popescu: because the emperor is ; in traditionalist societies existence is predicated on existence.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would cunt lubricate to ease penile intromission ?
asciilifeform: in traditional society we also have 'emperor is far away, what care i'
mircea_popescu: fuck i love this article. "Deci, ce probleme rezolva ecologia ? Niciunele. Ecologia se bucura insa de sprijinul institutional al statului ca justificare persuasiva si credibila a nevoii de-a reechilibra administrativ dezechilibre economice induse administrativ. Tot aceleasi probleme pe care le rezolva si psihologia," -> "So, what problems does ecology resolve ? No problems. Ecology simply enjoys institutional support of the [
mircea_popescu: socialist] state as a persuasive and credible justification for the need to rebalance administratively imbalances induced administratively. same exact problems psychology resolves."
asciilifeform: afaik standard feudal org chart works in steps (d00d answers to ~immediate~ commanding officer)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. ru peasant aslo thought emperor is good ; and right here.
asciilifeform: good part of 'царь-батюшка' is that he never asks you directly to do anything
mircea_popescu: this "what care i" is very much a proposal to modulate behaviour ; whereas this active diatesis is not there contemplated.
asciilifeform: can always blame immediate superior for your famine, fleas, conscription
mircea_popescu: "the emperor is ; this gold is ; they go together."
phf: not quite true, you had лжецаревич uprisings
asciilifeform: analogous to chain forks..
phf: also kind of tru re famine, but typically boyars were blamed rather then tzar or barin
phf: since both were beyond reprise
asciilifeform: well yes, you blame the d00d who actually worked you to the bone
mircea_popescu: phf you did ; nevertheless - in the case of those runaways who were discovered in the 60s after however many centuries of absence, what figured greatly was that a) the tsar is good and b) that woe on random anon merchant for refusing to donate a quarter ton of potatoes to the cause.
phf: no, no, i'm saying the opposite. ~barin~ in this case is the dude who worked you to the bone
asciilifeform: goodcop/badcop symbiosis, landlord/emperor
asciilifeform: reverse, rather
mircea_popescu: and the fake ivans etc are not exactly attacks on the tsar ; they're just a discussion of identity , not actually a modernisation proposal.
mircea_popescu: similar to the whole "mandate ofheaven" chinese thing - IS he or ISN'T he the "one true emperor" ; whether his being anything in particular matters with regards to "his job" ie, what he has to do is not discussed. even the notion that emperorhood is a job is nonsensical in context.
asciilifeform: eh, semantic games. rebel armies surround capital? ooops, must mean he lost mandate of heaven!
mircea_popescu: (for distinction between emperorhood and emperorship see http://trilema.com/2011/oamenii-superficiali-si-bestia/ )
phf: i think i'm being misunderstood. i'm saying that fake-tzars were cases of "emperor asking of you", because both tzar and barin (i.e. immediate supervisor) were seen as fundamental good. peasants consistently and historically allocated blame on various random hangerons. boyars, traders, foreigners, etc. in fact in fake-tzar cases the narrative was consistent "evil boyars have deposed our tzar-father and we won't stand for it"
asciilifeform: 'mandate of heaven' is about as logically consistent as the proverbial witch-drowning tester
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're only semantic games to you ; for they to be games they need the optionality.
mircea_popescu: phf this is very true yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when my time machine malfunctions and aztec priest eats my heart so that quetzalcoatl will shit the sun back out, it will still be semantic game.
mircea_popescu: hence the "useful evil minister" strategy deployed in england and france as well as everywhere else - get the guy to do things then behead him.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if i give you a lined mat and a pile of all black tiles you thereby "still have a game of go" ?
asciilifeform: not as such. though mircea_popescu's asian rituals and 'no optionality' thread reminds me of the infamous 'castle tournaments' in jp, where go players would rehearse same game dozens of times in advance
asciilifeform: ( royal folk dun like to wait for moves ! )
mircea_popescu: it's actually not a bad constraint.
mircea_popescu frequently requires better go players to play very fast and train for it in advance.
asciilifeform: and, BingoBoingo , this is 1000+ yrs before pro wrestling!!111
mircea_popescu: just because i can't keep up with the horse doesn't mean it won't get its exercise. we have mechanics!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, it wasn't even that they played 'blitz', but ~memorized game~
asciilifeform: and simply tape-played it back.
mircea_popescu: no, my idea simply was "explore all the trees for my convenience".
asciilifeform: ( precious few folks played blitz go, it makes for atrocious games )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: serious aficionados today have proggies for browsing tree, e.g., 'kombilo'
mircea_popescu: getting back to the modern/traditional thing : there's a very visible and practically relevant distinction in trade. when i hire a modernist, i hire him to do a job, and i expect him to do a job. but when i hire a traditionalist, i am essentially assigning office. and as it is LOGICAL in that context, he may agree to any "job" specification ie burdens on the title before he gets it, while all he IS is humble applicant ; but o
mircea_popescu: nce he gets it, once he IS the job title, then of course he finds himself in a more elevated position, which should mean by his logic that he gets to renegotiate and eliminate some of the burdens.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly why simple minded folks in third countries such as argentina etc display the strange behaviour where they don't wish to actually work, first discussed in the article about whores
asciilifeform: eh it's an orc thing, 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: ('work stands still, but the [prison] sentence still moving!')
asciilifeform: modify, perhaps, for modern world, 'work stands still, but the paycheque still approaches')
mircea_popescu: aha. HOWEVER - which is why i bring all this up - the reversal is fucking evident here too.
mircea_popescu: see, when I hire diana_coman to do dev work for eulora, OF FUCKING COURSE she gets to redefine the job on the basis of the title. because before she got it she hadn't seen the code, and after she had, for instance. or for any other reason.
mircea_popescu: in short, in the entirety of the observable universe, we are reverting to traditionalist systems, approaches and altogether a reality.
mircea_popescu: most computing jobs are unspecifiable in the terms most industrial jobs of the brief modernist interlude were specifiable.
mircea_popescu: whereas most computing jobs require identity in terms entirely impossible in the brief modernist interlude. what cares the cotton ginny whether you are white or black skinned ?
mircea_popescu: and this is what all the unicode wastage is : they, the lost souls of a dead world, are trying to make computers more like cotton ginnies. more inclusive, more capable to work with a modernist perspective, where who dun matter and what is considered.
asciilifeform: did the sword 'care' whether knight came from 10 or 40 generations of pure-blooded norman ?
asciilifeform: or did the horse ?
mircea_popescu: yes. both.
mircea_popescu: fundamental myth of english feudalism is a sword that cared.
mircea_popescu: fundamental myth of english modernism is "blind love", which, if you'll notice, is at the time of its introduction a very cheap trick very much in the manner of protestantism ; and also a mythical beast :
asciilifeform: and fundamental myth of pygmistan is that magical horn (today replaced with drainpipe, they forgot how to carve wood) that talks to the dead
mircea_popescu: the belgian woman from before. "blind" as in, no who just what. a modernist unicorn.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pygmystan is not actually a culture ; stone age tribes don't get names.
mircea_popescu: it's just "the stone age".
asciilifeform: eh the bantu -- who enslaved them -- iirc had iron.
asciilifeform: so just as iron-age as ol' rotten england
asciilifeform: just stuck there.
mircea_popescu: (the discussion of all this, for the curious, is probably best started with the trilema on the mind's compartments, http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ (
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iron age is ~norman conquest. industrial age is a different thing.
asciilifeform: iron, turns out, is not such a handy 'iq test', plenty of folx passed the iron exam and failed everything else.
asciilifeform: re 'cheap protestant tricks', and also in re 'argentinians who sit in chair and won't work', a good chunk of the weirdo mass-programming the protestants have been doing for 200+ yrs is precisely to 'make'em work'
asciilifeform: there are not so many ways to make folks work.
asciilifeform: you can prevent 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' by imposing 'no work - no food' quotas, and this was often tried in gulag, but led to unexpected problems
mircea_popescu: except there is no "work" in the abstract, as a byproduct of anti-idlehandsaredevilswork. not anymore.
asciilifeform: (in 100 zeks, you get a few well-fed блатные and a bunch of dystrophic worker bees )
mircea_popescu: back in 1616 there was a "do something - anything". today that results in github.
mircea_popescu: and not just in github, it results in 5bn for BART's 16 track miles and in 12mn/year for 1bn database for microsoft.
asciilifeform: and in egypt it resulted in pyramids
mircea_popescu: in short - it dun work, in any practical way.
asciilifeform: shithub is a religious ritual
mircea_popescu: the Floating Littoral Embarassment is very much the symbolic product of "technology by modernist means in postmodernist times"
asciilifeform: also pyramid.
asciilifeform: if you have a massive project that nobody computes ROI on, and folks throw rotten eggs at anyone who suggests doing so --- pyramid.
asciilifeform: ( in all fairness, moon probe, arpanet, etc -- also pyramid )
mircea_popescu: modernity hadn't quite ended yet.
asciilifeform: (egyptian, rather than ponzi, pyramid)
asciilifeform: and often i get distinct impression that mircea_popescu is posting from a parallel future on mars : where, e.g., robots are not three orders of magnitude more expensive than well-brainwashed 'work ethic' folx working with bare hands
mircea_popescu: they aren't.
asciilifeform: you gotta take the ~hardest~-to-roboticize industrial processes as the basis for comparison, not the ~easiest~;
asciilifeform: otherwise we 'had cheap robots' in 1850, cotton mill
mircea_popescu: there are a number of reasons for this. 1. robots eat electricity ; humans eat a sort of oil derivate ; see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577962 ; 2. robots are an industrial product, this costs ~nothing while "well brainwashed humans" are the equivalent of a "well behaved wife". tell you what, here's a half billion girlies in your "civilised world", you have a week to find a wife. let me know what you spent.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 16:09 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577534 << the petrol engine is not well impedance-matched with anything, even auto wheels on asphalt ! hence the 'hybrids' thing
asciilifeform: talk to folx who worked with industrial robots, dun take asciilifeform's word for it: robotization of a process is not 'magical free work while you supply mains current', but replaces 100 fungible gurlz with 1-3 'assembly line phd', which is not always a +ev trade
asciilifeform: nor is yield necessarily higher, because Software Sucks
mircea_popescu: i suspect i might've talked to more industrial robots folks than you have over our respective careers, but be that as it may, the trend is towards not away job destruction.
asciilifeform: this is on account of easily-roboticized 'low hanging fruit' (e.g., pcb component placement) and also shortages of human hands created by welfarization
mircea_popescu: the welfarization creates nothing. it is the maggot on the corpse of postmodern industry.
mircea_popescu: those people would have been idle anyway.
asciilifeform: take mircea_popescu's proverbial 'twerk chick'. her grandmother - was idle ?
mircea_popescu: (kinda yet another angle of why the great again is so lulzy - what, economic trends will reverse by election ?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no ; because modernism hadn't ended yet. but the chick herself - if she weren't twerking she'd be on reddit . there is literally NOTHING for her to do.
mircea_popescu: with the exception of tmsr, there is NO PLACE in this world which sticks to the modern tradition of, "random bozo walks in, is given a job"
mircea_popescu: this is how eg construction yards used to work, for milennia. not anymore, for decades now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from whence then comes this 'nothing to do' ??
mircea_popescu: from "robotization" in the general sense of the term.
asciilifeform: this 'total robotization' thing, i can see it as a logical conclusion, but it isn't here yet. e.g., how many robots has mircea_popescu , to date, fucked ?
mircea_popescu: fucking me is not a job. it is an honor.
mircea_popescu: i've not decorated any robots either.
asciilifeform: aite. when mircea_popescu called plumber, did robot show up ?
mircea_popescu: amusingly - i used to call plumbers in places where plumbing had been laid by hand. but in places where plumbing laid by robot - no need so far.
mircea_popescu: dat old ecosystem drives itself by supporting its niches and denying competing niches thing.
asciilifeform: elaborate re 'plumbing laid by robot'
asciilifeform: referring here to digging machine ? (a bit of stretch to call 1890s item 'robot')
mircea_popescu: you are aware "car fixing" ie, "that is my idea of heaven - a bucket o' grease and a cracked cylinder" now consists of sticking probes in dataports ?
asciilifeform: well yes, it consists of 'read error code and throw part # into order form and replace assembly'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, plumbing mostly comes as part of the prefab components of construction nowadays. is not separate thing.
mircea_popescu: "robots" does not strictly mean r2d2. entirely automated process chain is also a robot in this sense, even if perhaps a meta-robot for they preoccupied with the physicality of things.
mircea_popescu: ie - the visually driven notion of "robot" as "anthropomorphised tuna can" is not particularly useful in a discussion of economics and robots.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY << re prefab plumbing, oblig.
mircea_popescu: heh. laugh all you want, and take refuge in 1970s artworks if you will - but the fact remains that if you buy planks you buy planks but if you buy ikea you buy robotized planks.
mircea_popescu: it's what it is, out of the final table in the latter case about 2/3 is robot work.
mircea_popescu: yes, there isn't a beep-boop thing going around your livingroom. but it might as well be - the warehouse is entirely robotized ; the production line mostly ; etcetera. even driving is going away.
asciilifeform: actually there ~is~ , lol
mircea_popescu: do you know how many longshoremen work for amazon ? o wait ... the name is entirely antiquated.
asciilifeform robotization aficionado, has programmable vacuum, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at no point in my head for this thread was 'tuna can', but the headaches of fairly standard industrial robot process over which i presided some years ago
mircea_popescu: sure, but tell you what : the headaches of managing herd would be a lot closer in your mind had you i dunno, been a mcdonalds manager in your late teens.
asciilifeform: quite possibly.
mircea_popescu: there's no economic future for the average human, quite literally.
mircea_popescu: for as long as we still feel like entertaining ourselves by providing them with food and board, the derpage will last. and they'll "put women back into history at the call of bbc wikipedia.
asciilifeform: 'robocalypse' is a when, not if, yes, but there are certain obstacles (mainly reducing to 'software sucks', and even 'we don't quite have computer yet')
mircea_popescu: once that becomes old, they'll become dead, in a very starved and cold sense of the term.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, that when is cca 1999.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the original point was how the environment changed, and modernism is strictly no longer possible because exogenous reasons, not opened to consensusing electoralizing etc.
mircea_popescu: the WHO is the major consideration ; the what is relatively equivalent.
mircea_popescu: which reduces to and is in fact equivalent with the "no economic future for average human" above, and with the "there's nothing one can do on the simple basis of being one" even further above.
asciilifeform: afaik we still dun have a tech for producing ubermenschen other than by keeping massive herd of 'average human' around somewhere
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ << somewhere is important.
asciilifeform: ^ sorta how golden age su worked
mircea_popescu: (o look! the separation of the fat from the water in the sense of leaving the who-equivalent modernists behind in the gutter is actually quite the viscerally ferocious thing!)
mircea_popescu: nobody is going to forbid modernism. they who wish to feel equal will have a place where this is how things works.
mircea_popescu: (arguably this is also in the past - not like i'm actually forbidding redditards to reddit, even as i am squeezing the cream from the thing)
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's sketch, by what process does 'who' come to exist ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 14:44 mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
mircea_popescu: how else ? exactly how it historically worked.
asciilifeform: well yes, but how didja dig him out of the ground
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for instance, (for those who were not tuned in), was excavated from www by hanbot
mircea_popescu: chance encounter.
mircea_popescu: rather similar actually!
mircea_popescu: eulora, with its steep learning curve and well engineered intake manifolds is actually a muchly improved bitcoin from THIS perspective.
mircea_popescu: ie, "how to fish whos"
asciilifeform: this may be, but i could not tell that this is so by the backflow from #e into #t
mircea_popescu: hey. everything around you is new.
mircea_popescu: still, the question was "how who" not "how non-who". that your milk contains fat and water is not a valid objection to "how do you get fat from the cow ?" "you milk it"
asciilifeform not in eulora and cannot say
asciilifeform: but so far looks to me as if it mostly attracts folk who are good at playing eulora, rather than generalists spilling over into the kinds of projects in motion here.
asciilifeform: (exiles from other muds..?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever translate http://trilema.com/2010/minciuna-cosubstantiala ?
asciilifeform: (early piece re 'promisetronics')
mircea_popescu: i don't think i did no
mircea_popescu: and i am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. nobody's "good at x". the "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality.
mircea_popescu: either your brain works or doesn't. if it does, you can use it for all brain things, much like either your cunt works or doesn't, and if it does it does for all dicks.
mircea_popescu: there's no "good at math" anymore than there is "white dicks cunt"
asciilifeform: did i miss rsa worst-case difficulty proof emerging from mircea_popescu's well-trained harem ?
asciilifeform: how about cs equivalence to diffie hellman proof ?
mircea_popescu: what sense does this make ?
mircea_popescu: i also didn't see meat airplane borne out of the soviet maternity circuit. this proves something ?
asciilifeform: if 'there is no good-at' and can train-anybody-to-anything with sufficient application of hot irons
mircea_popescu: hot irons weren't mentioned.
asciilifeform: even better
trinque: and that a brain works does not mean that the requisite information for a particular has yet been jammed in.
mircea_popescu: for one thing.
mircea_popescu: "this cpu could do anything" "i don't see your sql server doing any dos emulation work" "nigga... wut ?!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu surely was involved in some form of sport, at one time. or knew folks who were. did trainers take the approach 'either body works, or doesn't' ? or did they pick childrenz with the right body type for the contest
mircea_popescu: laugh, but they very pointedly picked former approach.
mircea_popescu: there was entirely no "picking" in romania, the romania that produced the first full 10 olympic gymnasts. hundreds of thousands of kids ran into thousands of pe teachers who very pointedly "body works to it - now make it work to jump!"
mircea_popescu: body works to eat*
asciilifeform: having 10,000,001 kidz do somersaults is cheap
mircea_popescu: the "nfl picks" usian system seemed very alien, and quite frankly wasteful, to the general mind. "americans will never amount to anything in sports" therefore.
mircea_popescu: of course, this was in a time of general conscription and so forth. obviously things have changed - it is easier after all.
mircea_popescu: and no, i have no argument - it is EASIER to think of yourself as "i am good at x" raqther than "brain works or doesn't work."
mircea_popescu: now THAT easy-seeking habituation is what the hot irons are used for.
asciilifeform: gymnasts may not be perfect example. when you have a role where the training per se is costly, you're stuck picking. e.g., pilots; i recently read a quite interesting autobio, 'Обречены на подвиг' ('condemned to heroism', roughly) by su flying d00d / instructor / colonel. described how children having any physical imperfection, even tooth cavity, were mercilessly rejected from flight academy even if they passed all of
asciilifeform: the theoretical weedouts
mircea_popescu: i personally prefer the "here's the book pile, go read whatever ; do something"
mircea_popescu: why should i pick and why should i care.
mircea_popescu: if you feel like anything good ; and if you feel like nothing in particular reddit's that way.
asciilifeform: this is rather different statement than 'there are no good-ats, anyone can anything'
mircea_popescu: but by all means, if you, trinque or anyone else feels like running su airpilot style court, your right and priviledge. i'm sure it'll work just fine.
asciilifeform: reddit is full of folx who 'feel like nothing' because good-at nothing
mircea_popescu: it's not like preference's forbidden or anything. i'm sure i'd be great at fucking dudes, too, i never fucked any nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: the point is, that "i would suck at fucking dudes" is a very poor excuse and entirely rotten pillar of identity.
asciilifeform: as soon as the cost of failure is >0, selection becomes a thing -- does mircea_popescu not carefully select harem ?
mircea_popescu: nope. and what is the cost of failure ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am ill-equipped to describe it. but presumably there is a reason mircea_popescu has a harem, and not a human chick-sized 'cat door' to let in whoever.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine that whoever wanted to get in couldn't at least try.
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the cost of failure ? is it some sort of "oh, i can't go talk to the girl in the bar" sort of crazy ?
asciilifeform: how about 'burns house down'
asciilifeform: 'plants nsa bugs'
asciilifeform: or similar.
mircea_popescu: it's insured. heh ok.
mircea_popescu: why would there be a THE HOUSE ? i don't subscribne to "let's all go to the same shitty island and make a georepublic" ima have a the house ?
asciilifeform: proverbian the-house.
mircea_popescu: so she burns down some apartment. the firepeople will put it out, the insurance people will pay for it and i guess the police people will take her to the doctorpeople or w/e.
mircea_popescu: or if they don't because society broke down, i guess my guardpeople shoot her and throw the body to the dogs. either way.
asciilifeform: and guards -- picked off the street, because anybody-can-anything? or selected for certain attributes ?
asciilifeform: will mircea_popescu hire a blind d00d? missing trigger finger? or even one of BingoBoingo's patients ?
mircea_popescu: as in, picked off the streets because anybody can anything and selected for certain attributes.
BingoBoingo: Wait I have patients nao?
mircea_popescu: what, i'ma only hire x school graduates like obama ? wtf am i , stupid.
asciilifeform: 'has 10 fingers' != 'has imperial diploma'
mircea_popescu: picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"
asciilifeform: now i'm stumped
asciilifeform: elaborate ?
mircea_popescu: how would i elaborate, you'e the one who's stumped. you elaborate.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you have, now, patients ! probably you've done moar to cure gluttony than most medical men
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: random d00d 'from street' could indeed have 'imperial diploma' neh ?
mircea_popescu: i imagine he could, sure.
mircea_popescu: they usually don't walk the streets, being selected for a sort of pretentious lazyness, but anyway.
asciilifeform: so i how do i parse 'picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"'
asciilifeform: it eggogs in my head
mircea_popescu: ah. "no shits given re imperial diploma"
asciilifeform: aah aite.
mircea_popescu: http://shivankaul.com/blog/2016/12/07/clean-your-desk-yet-another-amazon-interview-experience.html << this is some serious sf shit.
mircea_popescu has walked out of numerous meetings etc, often offended, but never participated into SUCH INSANITY wtf.
asciilifeform: this story makes 0 sense
asciilifeform: why would they give exam on the d00d's comp, at ~his~ house
mircea_popescu: dude i have nfi. because they're used to hiring camwhores ?
asciilifeform: normally this kind of thing is done by inviting candidate to a locked booth after arse search etc
mircea_popescu: yes but i guess they can't be arsed to deal with stuck in traffic peon / having to physically go to the peon pen etc
asciilifeform: ah hm i think i get it
asciilifeform: technical term is 'shit test'
asciilifeform: 'sir please locate a cucumber' 'now bend..'
mircea_popescu: i guess the dude was just "getting his identity confirmed" or w/e KYC stuff.
asciilifeform: selected. for obedience.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, my selection-for-obedience process doesn't also select for comatose mental state simultaneously.
mircea_popescu: anyway, bbl
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mIgMP/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/yahoo-caulks-another-hole/ << Qntra - Yahoo Caulks Another Hole
mats: merp. friendo typed in my window
trinque charitably assumes it was a chick blowing kisses at the Republic
shinohai: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/12/08/world/middleeast/ap-ml-iraq-mosul-ambush.html?_r=0 <<< urban warfare fail for Iraq army
trinque: As Iraqi forces advanced toward the al-Salam hospital in Mosul earlier this week, encountering only light resistance from Islamic State fighters, commanders decided to seize the facility instead of sweeping the neighborhoods along the road leading to it.
trinque: then later "elite forces"
phf: asciilifeform: i didn't read that thread too close, but in japan they still seem to do "hire who not how" presumably successfully http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
phf: "The company will mold you to their exacting specifications to do whatever form of service they require. You will happily comply, in this as in all things. For example, if your company needs a Java-speaking systems engineer and you have a degree in Art History, this is not a problem because you can be fixed."
phf: "Sure it might take ten years and only work on a quarter of the new hires but that’s why we employ you for 45 years and hire a hundred at once!"
phf: and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
BingoBoingo: In other customer complaints: "Bought a weed and grass killer. Used it according to instructions and it killed a linden tree and many plants. Ace does not seem to be responsible and turned me over to a David at spectrum who admitted that their product does damage."
mircea_popescu: lol! dat "he got everything wrong but the subject is interesting".
pete_dushenski is digging patrick mckenzie's blog
pete_dushenski: it even has pgp pubkey block... gpg v1.4.10!
phf: well, i suspect he's got his facts right, but the commentary is dodgy
mircea_popescu: i don't even doubt the label, i just find it amusing.
mircea_popescu: like "fish, delicious and healthy!" label on a caserole in the discount yesterday's icebox.
mircea_popescu: yes, fish in general is delicious and healthy.
pete_dushenski: or sign on car rotting on mechanic's lot : "needs work to get running but a smooth driver!"
phf: look, the margins are thin and the fish gotta go, you buying or what
mircea_popescu: i'm buying, i'm buying.
mircea_popescu does exactly this on occasion, feeds cats.
phf: is buenos aires like istanbul, street cat culture?
mircea_popescu: not quite, lots of dogs being tortured on small terraces, apartments, 3sq feet of concrete behind bars (srsly, pair of dogs, COULDNT EVEN STRETCH OUT!).
mircea_popescu: but there's still plenty of cats.
phf: somehow makes total sense from all the other argentina points
mircea_popescu: and this nation, that to my knowledge has furthest perfected the art of pointlessly but with extreme callous cruelty torturing man's oldest and best friend, nevertheless considers itself full of dog lovers.
mircea_popescu: they actually say this, "i'm a dog lover". then you meet the dog, and the general effect is "i love kids" guy with a fridge full of kid parts.
ben_vulpes: urban dog owners, man.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm enjoying reading this kalzumeus piece on japanese culture. it's like japan consists of the 1950s mob.
ben_vulpes: oh, it's mckenzie's turn huh? how'd he escape the eye of sauron for so long?
mircea_popescu: prolly, his employer skulldruggery.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580071 << asciilifeform also feeds catz
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 00:55 mircea_popescu does exactly this on occasion, feeds cats.
asciilifeform: the orbiting beasts have doubled and doubled in size...
mircea_popescu: wtf is starfighter.
mircea_popescu: " about: THOMAS H. PTACEK hopes, by strict attention to business, combined with moderate charges, to merit a fair share of patronage and support."
ben_vulpes: hiring gauntlet as a service
mircea_popescu: !#s tptacek
a111: 8 results for "tptacek", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tptacek
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes oh, like ProctologyU
ben_vulpes: i have no idea
mircea_popescu: o wait, liek minigame except failed ?
mircea_popescu: "Ones actual salary as a salaryman is generally rather low about $100 per year of age per month, as an engineer in Nagoya (set by a particular monopsonistic engineering employer near Nagoya). In Tokyo, my sense of the market is that, as an intermediate engineer in his early thirties, Id probably command somewhere between $30k and $60k. (In Silicon Valley, the going rate would be somewhere between $120k and $160k and
mircea_popescu: increasing rapidly.)"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha get the fuck out.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying that your "sense of the market" indicates that as an intermediate starlet in her 30s you'd probably command between 1 and 3 mn pa because hey, that's what bravo/seveteen/cosmo/whatever said christina applegate was making at some point in 2006 when she was 32 and was doing three different things.
mircea_popescu: except she is "intermediate" among the people actually making money ; not among the people aspiring to be used, which is still not the same as making money. you could just as well say tom cook is an intermediate manager (in the sense that bezos is clearly better and whoever they have at microsoft, that indian fellow, clearly worse), so you figure ten years after getting your degree from ohio state business school you'll be pu
mircea_popescu: lling in like 25mn + options.
mircea_popescu: "as an intermediate manager"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23F4D70A532D06432B7710D4685138EB5DB19B3AD816EFD65D4E8158E361E79C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1732...0147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (79-98-75-157.sys-data.com. CZ ST)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '18.104.22.168 (ssh-rsa key from 22.214.171.124 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
mircea_popescu: "When I met her mother for the first time, I brought my resume and tax returns. Her mother was not 100% keen on the match when we started dating, as a combination of foreigner and not gainfully employed suggested that I was not exactly marriage material, but I eventually won her over."
mircea_popescu: holy shit these people...
mircea_popescu: how does this dude expect to be taken seriously, by anyone, like ever ?
mircea_popescu: i know dogs that are more respectable.
pete_dushenski: not japanese dogs
mircea_popescu: well i don't know any japanese dogs at all.
mircea_popescu: da fuck, empowering old women, wtf is this. whatever happened to bitch, if you talk out of line i'll burn you alive.
mod6: yeah, srsly. "here's my tax returns." wat?!
mircea_popescu: mod6 and these are the dorks who go "oh, midwest, flyover zone". really ? flyover zone for what, your ballsac in a sling ?
pete_dushenski: respect for elders in jp folx is like fried chicken for blacks - goes hand-in-hand
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski respect for the elders is predicated upon the stable basis of them elders having earned enough life experience to know better than getting in my way.
mircea_popescu: this is a young idiot mistake, not an elder mistake.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: only for values of 'my way' that resolve to mircea_popescu and similar, which'd be rare enough to mostly ignore in jp. or else, sure, in a world where ol' ladies be gettin' torched leftrightandcentre, gramma opens the door for you, not the other way around.
phf: that's what i'm saying though, these are like nifty anthropological studies by very inept anthropologists. you learn more about the author, than...
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski all the warning signs are there. to wit : "(The hypothesis was advanced, more than once, that as a foreigner who routinely travels abroad, speaks Spanish, and has money without any evidence of gainful employment, I was probably a drug dealer. I wish I were joking.)"
mircea_popescu: now, it is true that you don't have to deal drugs to accumulate power ; nor because you accumulated it. but it is supremely unwise to imagine one's not going to crack a few skulls if it comes to it.
mircea_popescu: phf myeah.
pete_dushenski: phf: the authors aren't highly cultured and esteemed envoys from foreign lands, they're just... regular blokes.
mircea_popescu: would you think an elder who ineptly harasses a drug dealer is particularly respectable ?
pete_dushenski: ofc not, so 'drug dealer' is obv a snide remark, not actually positied theory
mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
pete_dushenski: apparently the 'big city' of tokyo or wherever isn't part of the jp where triads ARE the law, financiers, drug dealers, etc etc.
phf: pete_dushenski: sure, but my comment stands. when you read travel diaries in general they all have the same format, it's just this particular one reads like "in my country of Kazakhstan we shoot dog, i couldn't find any places to shoot dogs in so called civilized england"
mircea_popescu notes for the record that in 1916, man considering the mitzvah of accepting a cunt in his household was given money, and no insignificant portion thereof, by the ever-delighted parents.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck these "men" have managed to turn that into the above quote in one short century is anyone's guess.
pete_dushenski: phf: to be sure
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this hasn't changed in 100 years, but still depends ~where~ we're discussing.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
pete_dushenski: father-in-laws can be, and in my fortunate experience are, still grateful sobs
pete_dushenski: from whom, yes, honey flows.
mircea_popescu: one time, the dad of this chick (/me is very old school, always insisted in meeting the parents of all molls) asked me if i have serious intentions. so i asked him if she's a virgin.
pete_dushenski guesses that quantity of honey depends on the degree of f-i-l's personal means, how many girls he's burdened with, and how much of a stud the s-i-l is.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: lol. good comeback. and yes, gotta meet parents, ideally even before formal courtship begins or else within first two weeks of commencement.
mircea_popescu: generally after first fuck.
mircea_popescu: here, too, on coupla of occasion took girl over sunday noon that i had met saturday night at bdsm club no less. resulting in some appropriately spooked parents.
pete_dushenski: which should be within first two weeks :p
pete_dushenski would very much one day like to see what these bdsm clubs are all about, preferably with mircea_popescu as guide, for he presently has nfi what he's missing out on.
mircea_popescu: nomina nuda, mostly.
mircea_popescu: i thought you lived in something that passes for urban center in the frozen wastes ?
mircea_popescu: i'm sure they must have one.
pete_dushenski: this is where i sheepishly admit that there could be one across the street but that i've not yet encountered anyone who's admitted to knowledge of its whereabouts. though given that 'edmonton ab' showed up on a few of the fetlife meatlist, you sorta have to figure there must be ~something~ of the sort in a town >1mn pop.
mircea_popescu: eh, they probably advertise.
mircea_popescu: !~google edmonton bdsm club
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Edmonton O Society - BDSM Education Society | BDSM Education ...: <http://edmontonosociety.org/>; Meetings | Edmonton O Society - BDSM Education Society: <http://edmontonosociety.org/meetings/>; Edmonton - domination and BDSM services - backpage.com: <http://edmonton.backpage.com/Domination/>
mircea_popescu: there lol. sign up for a meeting, take wifey along.
pete_dushenski: haha there are worse ideas
pete_dushenski: bbiab. to inquire!
mircea_popescu: a munch is generally just dicking around a food court, child safe sort of events.
mircea_popescu: course seems the last for the year was o wait, you have one on 14th.
ben_vulpes: rip john glenn apparently
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '126.96.36.199 (ssh-rsa key from 188.8.131.52 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FFE6DAF3C3F67391AD8CBEA1EC2F88C16821237CF7F335B9890B0808F9FFEFBA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '184.108.40.206 (ssh-rsa key from 220.127.116.11 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
mircea_popescu: he was really old wasn't he ?
ben_vulpes: ya, rather
mircea_popescu: this tiny may bug like creature is having the time of its life over on the db in jp monitor. i've never seen one so happy.
mircea_popescu: i don't get this fizzbuzz thing. someone explain it to me ? for i from 1 to 100 do if i is divisible by 3 j+="Fizz" ; if i is divisible by 5 j+="Buzz" if j is null j = i print j.
mircea_popescu: am i nuts or something ? wtf "I think Fizz-Buzz is "hard" for some programmers because (#1) it doesn't fit into any of the patterns that were given to them in school assignments, and (#2) it isn't possible to directly and simply represent the necessary tests, without duplication, in just about any commonly-used modern programming language." (as per http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580107 << ahahahahahahahahaha http://18.104.22.168/index.html 'Quanta Megarac' '(C) COPYRIGHT American Megatrends Inc. 2008-2009'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:27 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AAF7663C0AECC17FC31935B62259B2A1A4700A0EAE5AB14624B296023EEF258C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...4207 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '22.214.171.124 (ssh-rsa key from 126.96.36.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
asciilifeform: remote admin for some godforsaken serv mobo
mircea_popescu: still on seven years later...
asciilifeform: you can trivially enumerate users ('admin', for instance, confirms to exist...)
asciilifeform: nfi what else, there is probably a vendor backdoor, i cannot be arsed
asciilifeform: (stoooodent project!11111)
asciilifeform: this is one of those fabled ipmi cards mircea_popescu spoke of in earlier thread.
mircea_popescu: one of these is going to turn out to be whatever supersecret bullshit someone put online because idiots and everyone's going to lose their shit.
asciilifeform: apparently whitelabeled by number of folx, incl. dell
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580164 << it was a pons asinorum, a 'write hello world' exam to weed out applicants who 1) cannot program to save their life 2) memorized 'hello world' to fool examinators
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 02:30 mircea_popescu: i don't get this fizzbuzz thing. someone explain it to me ? for i from 1 to 100 do if i is divisible by 3 j+="Fizz" ; if i is divisible by 5 j+="Buzz" if j is null j = i print j.
mircea_popescu: but what i specifically take issue with is the claim that "There is no clear way in any languages". what the heck ?
asciilifeform: believe or not, (1) is pestilentially common in usa, and has been for decade+, and (2) is also met with regularly
asciilifeform goes and unwinds mega-log
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform should probably poop more often
asciilifeform: 'captain's log'
ben_vulpes: did everything come out all right?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580131 << 'where, sir, i SHOULD PUT THIS!!???' (tm) (r)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:47 phf: pete_dushenski: sure, but my comment stands. when you read travel diaries in general they all have the same format, it's just this particular one reads like "in my country of Kazakhstan we shoot dog, i couldn't find any places to shoot dogs in so called civilized england"
mircea_popescu: holy shit! the page itself claims there is a simple structure... BUt ONLY FOR LISP
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit, "use separate variable, test the number test variable if empty" can be written in fucking bash.
mircea_popescu: what is with these obnoxious prigs already.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580145 << mircea_popescu showed one during c3. picture a ~packed~ lift, with alcohol served
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:55 pete_dushenski would very much one day like to see what these bdsm clubs are all about, preferably with mircea_popescu as guide, for he presently has nfi what he's missing out on.
mircea_popescu: not even that far off.
asciilifeform: ~same dress level, ~same folx standing in corners, etc
mircea_popescu: there was some nudity wasn't there ?
asciilifeform: i saw an arse cheek iirc
asciilifeform: re 'buzz' test, see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569804
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 16:58 asciilifeform: (at a recent hellhole where asciilifeform worked, they marched in folx with perfect marks, many magister degrees in 'sciences', etc., who COULD NOT PROGRAM)
mircea_popescu: i don't even see how the fuck this is programming.
mircea_popescu: srsly now. can they stock their pantry, these people ?
asciilifeform: what pantry, 'talk into clownface for food pellet'
asciilifeform: it's a helloworld, a litmus to see whether esteemed mr. orc has even heard of the notion of programming a computer
asciilifeform: last time asciilifeform went around to look for work, saw an astonishing variety of olympiad puzzles
asciilifeform: 'here's 20 pgs of c, find 3 exploitable bugs'
mircea_popescu: should have given you emacs macros instead :D
asciilifeform: 'here's a pg of obdjump -D .., say what is the routine'
asciilifeform: some outfits had 'olympiad' so gnarly that it was given 'takehome'
asciilifeform: nothing prizeworthy, because wtf, think someone wants to sit and make up real prize problem.. but it wasn't all low-effort crapola either.
asciilifeform: there was even one 'tbtf' corp where they wheeled in a pc-cum-tv thing and ida...
asciilifeform: olympiads are a desperation measure, when i sat on other end of the table i resorted to them also
asciilifeform: degrees -- worthless; people pretending to know what computer is but came straight from donkey - ubiquitous
ben_vulpes: us degrees are worse than worthless, they're an actual burden. holders generally have such an inflated opinion of themselves and blown up cashflow needs due to student loans they're nigh unemployable.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ~old~ (relatively) degrees -- still worth ~something, occasionally
mircea_popescu: no ben_vulpes has it ; degrees are anti-signal.
ben_vulpes: and the old folks who bear them, occasionally as well.
mircea_popescu: very inflexible curs with outsized "needs".
ben_vulpes: the lifetime of coddling doesn't make managing them any easier either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think you are describing 'old folx', not necessarily diplomaed
mircea_popescu: old folks as in bio age i usually have an easy enough time with ; young folks who aspire to be employed however are aged beyond their age, like touched by the fucking vorlons.
mircea_popescu: i actually told a 29 yo "i know a guy who's 92 and a lot more flexible than you".
mircea_popescu: which incidentally was true at the time.
asciilifeform: does army service count as 'employ' for the purpose of mircea_popescu's disdainful eye ?
mircea_popescu: well no, i've never had the pleasure of hiring for the army.
asciilifeform: sketch plox the inflexible 29yo
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform (i suspect we may be talking at cross purposes)
asciilifeform: hm possibly
mircea_popescu: ah. the inflexible 29 yo had this very obnoxious penchant for trying to restate any problem in specific terms as per his textbook.
asciilifeform: aaaah THEM!!
mircea_popescu: needless to say this produced "correct" responses through the insufferable avenue of missing out on the problem.
mircea_popescu: this is about as useful as an "expert system".
asciilifeform: if not mega-seekrit, what sort of worker was he pretending to be..?
mircea_popescu: the 92 yo i had in mind specifically was http://trilema.com/2010/la-munca-cu-negrii/#selection-37.0-37.88
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform systems engineer
asciilifeform: it always boggled my imagination, how these folx pick a thing to 'be'
asciilifeform: why not go across the street and pretend to be some other thing. why came to our door.
mircea_popescu: from what i heard from all other shops, they do. it's like asking why has superluminous tachyon decided to bless your apparatus.
asciilifeform: the unspoken but correct answer is 'if i go and pretend to be a real liberal-profession, lawyer, airline pilot, i will go to jail'
mircea_popescu: hey - other ones blessed mrs jones' urethra etc
mircea_popescu waves at lobbes
mircea_popescu: "For example, when I first came to Japan, I had no computer. I also had no money, because the plane ticket and setting up my household ate all of my savings. In America, this isnt a barrier to getting a computer, because Dell will do a quick FICO score on you and then happily extend you $2,000 of trade credit."
mircea_popescu: for the love of all that's holy. who does this ? WHO ?
asciilifeform: https://web.archive.org/web/20140302045958/http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2012/04/20/math-why-there-is-disagreement-on-cantors-diagonal-argument << strictly for pro entomologists. cantorist crackpot! and here i thought that the last one died in '99 or so, usenetron in hand...
asciilifeform: think, ~disagreement~ !111
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who does what
asciilifeform: move with 0 money and 0 prospects, living by wits ? i thought mircea_popescu was proponent of this for young folx
mircea_popescu: the approximate equivalent of "umm... hi fortified city, here is my siege. i... uhhh... i ate all the horses on the way over. and burned the trebuchets. surrender now ?"
asciilifeform: hey maybe they watched mircea_popescu take city with bare teeth and want also.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was living under the impression that i am reading the faits d'armes of adule male. for some reason.
asciilifeform goes back and actually reads subj
mircea_popescu: wtf is this "disagreement" holy hell.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/23F4D70A532D06432B7710D4685138EB5DB19B3AD816EFD65D4E8158E361E79C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1548...9783 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.8.131.52 (ssh-rsa key from 184.108.40.206 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (79-98-75-157.sys-data.com. CZ ST)
ben_vulpes: !~later tell Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/ << 404s
jhvh1: ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: 403 i mean