BingoBoingo: !~covertress pls to fix your IRC flouncer? consider hosting it on a different interwebz pipe? Preferably one with more consisent pressure and brazed copper fittings?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "covertress" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell covertress pls to fix your IRC flouncer? consider hosting it on a different interwebz pipe? Preferably one with more consisent pressure and brazed copper fittings?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539757 << this makes 0 sense. what 'connections' are there in anyone's gossipd picture ?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 03:54 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539662 << you know i had a whole thing typed out but i think the core is that mircea_popescu is talking connections and asciilifeform is talking blobs
asciilifeform: thing's supposed to be stateless.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539752 << 18.104.22.168, 22.214.171.124, 126.96.36.199, 188.8.131.52, 184.108.40.206 -- are all currently up and happily report being tropos boxes.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 03:33 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/986CBE61250486DABCEC88D21AEBC21E3B49C40F0EB81B86305B3FD41350E0ED << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '220.127.116.11 (ssh-rsa key from 18.104.22.168 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on
asciilifeform: $s tropos
asciilifeform: #!s tropos
asciilifeform: !~s tropos
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Error: "s" is not a valid command.
phf: no that last one should've worked let me check
asciilifeform: why the FUCK did $s have to move.
phf: !#s i don't know
asciilifeform: can we have a perma-moratorium on this nonsense ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ?
asciilifeform: search should be a single-char command
asciilifeform: dun matter which char
BingoBoingo: !#s tropos
asciilifeform: ohio; pennsylvania; new york.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your www appears to be dead ?
asciilifeform: !#s 12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113
a111: 11 results for "12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=12821434770207124962218342772669979580034410699894792217009678098194556802269429235901909465304384529740402801239415068853092063888103297243254641064047113
asciilifeform: ^ pretty strange.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539601 << /me wonders to what extent fiat central bankers lie awake at night spinning the same observation round and round their fatigued noggins worried sick about their own altcoins.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 16:22 mircea_popescu: the point ~everyone, from the propellerhead ethidiots to yours truly, prefers to not observe the fact that bitcoin can not be part of economic activity as is, because unspecified machinery with unpredictable behaviours are exactly not the substance of contractual agreements.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i did call for nuke war over the high-S idiocy...
asciilifeform: (principally via the building, hypothetically, of a high-S-only pool)
asciilifeform: but no takers, mega-surprise.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i recall. and without the nukeforkpocalypse, i thought that using mod6's '-lows' flag was sop...
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: yeah i have nfi how mircea_popescu ended up emitting a high-S. and he never, iirc, said. probably was test.
pete_dushenski: such is his prerogative.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have no idea how challenge/response is stateless
ben_vulpes: one of the other things i had scribbled down is that asciilifeform wants a crypto-hard wall against "teh ddos", and mircea_popescu appears satisfied that uninformed idiots who can't find keys are enough of a pill against the ddos. i don't see how this is an improvement on the ip address, which the average netizen is entirely uncognizant of.
ben_vulpes: can't imagine my failure to understand belongs on trilema
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it belongs there inasmuch as the explanation belongs there.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#9 << a) that dude looks too much like a dork to be dpb ; b) notice how many of these schmucks are wanted for "the dpr crime", aka "said heretic things to usg agents while unaware of their being usg agents, facts to which usg agents swear" ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [02:28:46] <shinohai> danielpbarron arrested for planting a bomb: http://archive.is/vsGpQ
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:10:19] <pete_dushenski> speaking of making use of blogs, i've taken the liberty of compiling the various #trilema bots, their calls, and their functions onto a single page >> bots.contravex.com
mircea_popescu: should have a proper list of commands rather than a few words description of what it does though.
Framedragger: re. scriba, "Call function : [TBD]", i was told http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-29#1531244 so i use !#, too? i can change this
a111: Logged on 2016-08-29 15:13 mircea_popescu: no, !#
Framedragger: (commands tbd, if any)
mircea_popescu: ahaha doh.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger be a darling move it to !$ thanks.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#25 << the sad result of girls reaching literacy without the experience of beating.
mircea_popescu: seriously now, stop spawning this scum.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#29 << check out infertile old woman angry at the fact that she's old & infertile so taking it out on peoplez! for shame.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:20:11] <BingoBoingo> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3779582/Nurse-caught-CCTV-having-sex-dead-disabled-girl-s-waterbed-child-s-grieving-foster-parents-allowed-return-work.html
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#30 << just a friendly reminder that prb dun work is all.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:22:32] <pete_dushenski> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539612 << still stuck eh...
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#37 << one wonders, of course, if hanno boeck ( http://trilema.com/2016/psa-hanno-bock-still-a-deceitful-shitbag/ ) is stuck in an airport somewhere furiously editing his speech on his "research" which entirely consists of repackaging material published by the republic for his dorky friends with internet / mental disabilities. or whether they'll just publish an incomplete list and pretend no
mircea_popescu: t to notice.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:35:52] <BingoBoingo> To celebrate these 9/12 phuctorings https://i.sli.mg/0FzhV3.png A SEASON!
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:10:01] <asciilifeform> #!s tropos
mircea_popescu: !#s buttseks
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#61 << we can have a perma moratorium on the following nonsense : you tend to bitch loudly about irrelevant shit. stop doing it. it's a waste of your time ; and it significantly degrades your standing.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:10:57] <asciilifeform> can we have a perma-moratorium on this nonsense ?
mircea_popescu: memorialized examples include you bitching about phuctor's hosting for spurious reasons, which resulted in enemy thanking us for a year of downtime. i had hoped you learned lesson, but ferrocranium is severe with you.
mircea_popescu: it also includes in recent memory you bitching about a111 logging, only to discover presently that actually you love it.
mircea_popescu: ima skip the endless deluge of similar idiocy in between the two quoted points. stop whining like an impotent retard who has internalized his impotence and consequently whines as loudly as he can and does not stick to his whining a moment later. it's unseemly.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger hostmaks. you're doing them wrong.
Framedragger: (may put in additional commands but those are lower priority)
Framedragger: yeah meknows, it should first do the hostmask and only then enter room. will need to check innards of bot.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#76 << i recall explaining then, but i guess it didn't stick : the fact that transactions are malleable means no such thing as a "high only" pool may exist - others can malleate your "high only" txn and mine them as lows. meanwhile network effects prevent you building a mining farm that mines high-s txn : unless you control a significant portion of the hash, you will just mine orphans.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:59:38] <asciilifeform> but no takers, mega-surprise.
mircea_popescu: and these two points aren't unrelated. the keystone of maturity is an ability to pick fights judiciously.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, a good measure of power is the overlap between "judiciously" and "it fucking pisses me off".
mircea_popescu: with the caveat, of course, that it's one of those "greeks, exactly backwards, exactly right" : the infantile mind will expect the sentence speaks about the world. in fact, it speaks about the self.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#80 << ahahaha ok this may be the best oglaf yet.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
Framedragger: topic-based publish/subscribe has been sorta well researched, but i guess this problem is on another 'layer': gossipd document would leave this for 'implementation'. even though it may not be trivial at all, to make decisions regarding such matters, choose best spec, or design it from ground zero. but of course makes sense to discuss the foundations first
Framedragger obligatory swear towards paywalled PDFs. two evils at the same time, "CS" "academia" ftw
Framedragger: (for anyone curious, three relevant PDFs regarding pubsub-based p2p in http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/p2p-pubsub/ - yes, PDFs, i know)
Framedragger: (the most general one is http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/p2p-pubsub/2012.mw.pdf - pubsub based p2p architecture called poldercast)
adlai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/og87o/?raw=true
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539784 << the trilema effect. Even with caching my dinky blog box gets jammed sometimes. I always archive.is the latest post before it hits the bot though
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 04:21 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your www appears to be dead ?
Framedragger: btw as reported by kakobrekla and HN crowd, http://legalhackers.com/advisories/MySQL-Exploit-Remote-Root-Code-Execution-Privesc-CVE-2016-6662.html
Framedragger: summary by one lucb1e, "people that can run queries on your MySQL server, either by legit access (shared webhosting or something else) or via an SQL-injection vulnerability, can execute commands that might root your server. Looking at the PoC, it seems possible to overwrite any file that the MySQL user (or whichever user MySQL runs as) can write to."
Framedragger: and also from the cve, "The vulnerability can be exploited even if security modules SELinux and AppArmor are installed with default active policies for MySQL service on major Linux distributions."
shinohai suddeny remember why he detests MySQL
Framedragger: (the PoC seems neat, with a custom bogus malloc library that mysql is told to use by a malicious config file loaded by malicious mysql trigger)
shinohai: Maybe I should switch to an ethereum-based database >.>
Framedragger: shinohai: you misspelt mongodb!
jurov: what's interesting, i don't see anything possibly related here: https://github.com/MariaDB/server/commits/10.1
jurov: nor other branches/releases
jurov: does not look like "vendor fixed"
davout: danielpbarron: you still hosting on a tamagotchi or sthg?
shinohai remembers this scam site called "mybitcoinjob.com" that was being hosted on a cellphone and could be dos'd with a simple nmap scan.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 11:08 Framedragger: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 04:33 mircea_popescu: otherwise - hole, night, creeps in.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#134 << what do you mean ? X forwards all he's heard, from all his friends, to all his friends.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [11:08:04] <Framedragger> mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
mircea_popescu: there's one chat, and it's universal-party.
Framedragger: trinque: yeah, fair enough
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, why the heck are we discussing this here rather than there ;/
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, shit. for some reason the first time i've read the message storage format (in the general sense), i.e. "time, X, Y, text", i read it as from X directed towards Y. my shitty fault
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: because i thought the question may have been truly stupid, and turns out it sorta was!
jurov: scriba: that's message format on application level, but not even network level is resolved yet
Framedragger should teach scriba to talk back :p
Framedragger: jurov: yeah okay, you're right folks
mircea_popescu: yes, but now if i want to say "i suppose if one wants channels he can just prefix his lines with #trilema or whatever, but this is deliberately left to implementation" i don't have where to.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so i'll write a short comment
mircea_popescu: next time.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: but you don't think there may be a problem with flood of messages in the network across all "channels" / topics? it'd be neat if there was a way for a node to specify that it's only interested in things (specified by prefix, as in your example) under #trilema
mircea_popescu: just bear this in mind, there's no stupid questions, only stupid people. and deciding the venue of a question decides the venue of the answer, which is a major problem, as it conflicts with a fundamental principle ( ie http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536621 ).
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 23:51 asciilifeform: this happens, just like at your university, in the manner the elders decide. and not the manner the novice prefers.
jurov: Framedragger: irc also floods you with everythign in all channels, it' responisibility of your client to neatly sort it out
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: gotcha. i felt shy because all these other smart people don't comment on the article, damn their restraint
mircea_popescu: moreover nothing prevents emergent/de facto specs. the job of the gossipd spec is to keep people from doing world-breaking idiotic stuff. how they handle their own wives is their own problem.
Framedragger: i see, i see; clear separation - makes sense
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539822 << i think the boeckfest was over on friday night
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:39 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#37 << one wonders, of course, if hanno boeck ( http://trilema.com/2016/psa-hanno-bock-still-a-deceitful-shitbag/ ) is stuck in an airport somewhere furiously editing his speech on his "research" which entirely consists of repackaging material published by the republic for his dorky friends with internet / mental disabilities. or whether they'll just publish an incomplete list and pretend no
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:35:52] <BingoBoingo> To celebrate these 9/12 phuctorings https://i.sli.mg/0FzhV3.png A SEASON!
asciilifeform: ^ interesting. is this correct mechanism ? ( 2 bots answer )
trinque: one bot saw the other's link.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539827 << mircea_popescu throws rotten tomato at me but afaik there is not a canonical manual of commands, nor is it possible to find whether the latest knob rewiring took, without brute test of three or four of these
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:42 mircea_popescu: !#s buttseks
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:32 mircea_popescu: Framedragger be a darling move it to !$ thanks.
asciilifeform: !$ buttseks
asciilifeform: apparently - not yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, truly there isn't, and truly tis a problem. but your question wasn't "hey, shouldn't we have a canonical manual of commands or something ?" to which the answer would have been "go, write" rather than tomato.
mircea_popescu: one earns his tomato.
Framedragger: no search yet
trinque: I recommend each bot implements botname: help
trinque: I haven't yet, but can.
mircea_popescu: nah, should answer in pm
mircea_popescu: truly doth not belong in trilema
trinque: works for me
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : would be imho spiffy if one could get a sexprtronic list of commands out of a bot in pm
trinque: point being then can discover prefixes and commands.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539841 << the second half of this is afaik true, but the first item is trivially solved by not sending the tx anywhere else.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 10:00 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#76 << i recall explaining then, but i guess it didn't stick : the fact that transactions are malleable means no such thing as a "high only" pool may exist - others can malleate your "high only" txn and mine them as lows. meanwhile network effects prevent you building a mining farm that mines high-s txn : unless you control a significant portion of the hash, you will just mine orphans.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:59:38] <asciilifeform> but no takers, mega-surprise.
trinque: new prefixes are worth it in that they allow command name overlap.
asciilifeform: let it go over proper crypto to the high-s pool.
trinque: so then no one mine's atop your block, and what
asciilifeform: trinque: mircea_popescu was correct in his formulation that you gotta be large enough for them to die if they refuse, for this to work.
mircea_popescu: (notice also, for the sake of stating the obvious - that what glyphs one's monitor displays is a matter of local configuration ; that if one wishes to type ζ and have a certain bot respond with a search that someone is encouraged to look into macros, keybindings, or whatever solution of this problem his locale prefers ; finally that nothing keeps asciilifeform from getting phf to have a111 behave any arbitrary way in #asciil
mircea_popescu: ifeform, and that there's a trilema article on this topic ; and finally that italians do it better : http://66.media.tumblr.com/fc49140463f06998aa16e4dde0f9217f/tumblr_ny6xzbsqoG1revz5to1_500.gif )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do i locally configure my terminal to emit mircea_popescu's command-of-the-day ?
mircea_popescu: a question for teh ages.
asciilifeform: the annoying part was the game of simon-says, not the 'too many buttons', ftr.
mircea_popescu: the "secret tx pool" thing is trivial in theory ; in practice it opens you to a whole cat and mouse game and it didn't seem to me we're there yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be interesting to see this expanded on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know. but this is the nominalist axion. you're stuck with some level of simon says
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's to expand though ? the thing with secrets is that someone will be leaking them ; much like the thing with chastity vows. now find him, etc.
asciilifeform: well if your own pool leaks, you're done
asciilifeform: and who exactly else will leak ?
asciilifeform: the users ? then they are retarded.
asciilifeform: there is no 3rd party in the envisioned scheme.
mircea_popescu: every group of 20 people contains one retard.
asciilifeform: so he leaks HIS tx.
asciilifeform: let him die.
asciilifeform: the secrets are in no way shared between the users.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539858 << pretty great. thing is long overdue for its behind-the-shed bullet, just like openssl.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 11:44 Framedragger: summary by one lucb1e, "people that can run queries on your MySQL server, either by legit access (shared webhosting or something else) or via an SQL-injection vulnerability, can execute commands that might root your server. Looking at the PoC, it seems possible to overwrite any file that the MySQL user (or whichever user MySQL runs as) can write to."
mircea_popescu: afaik this was known for a decade
asciilifeform: the particular exploit ?
asciilifeform: not publicly
mircea_popescu: nah, just, "running mysql ~= open shell"
asciilifeform: .. or the overdue bullet ?
mircea_popescu: a good part of why "shared hosting" as a fiction for the masses moved to "cloud hosting" as a fiction for the masses being that there was already no way to secure a lamp environment enough to multiuser it.
asciilifeform: heh i still recall when folks believed that their unixen were 'multi user' os etc. aha.
mircea_popescu: gotta start somewhere. and that somewhere is always the same : everyone steps out of his mother's cunt covered in blood and guts, not to mention shit half the time.
mircea_popescu: !#s birthright's grime
a111: 0 results for "birthright's grime", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=birthright's%20grime
mircea_popescu: the problems of the fiat world.
mircea_popescu: "we don't have identity" "well... cattle dun need identity"
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [13:16:34] <trinque> I recommend each bot implements botname: help
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [13:16:53] <mircea_popescu> nah, should answer in pm
mircea_popescu: trinque i know i brought this on myself, but an unsubscribe will be useful so i don't get everything on gossipd spec twice lol
mircea_popescu: and in other irrelevant news, that article's the weirdest thing i ever saw. apparently it attracted huge interest - but is linked virtually nowhere.
mircea_popescu is starting to suspect darknet larger than previously estimated.
asciilifeform: what means 'huge interest but linked nowhere' ?
asciilifeform: i dun get it
mircea_popescu: well, it's the 2nd most read article this month, which i've never seen before for a recent piece.
asciilifeform: and relatedly, i have a proposed cut of the gordian knot, but now i gotta write it up
mircea_popescu: write, write.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'read' presumably means unique loads ?
asciilifeform: because i confess, i refreshed it a buncha times
mircea_popescu: you'd still count as one.
mircea_popescu: no, we're talking 17k different ips, plenty with garbled or no user agent, so you know. linked behind a password "protected" forum or w/e.
mircea_popescu: in any case more than what slashdot provides. so there could be a dark slashdot somewhere ?
Framedragger: you may want to put an update linking to the new doc in http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/ mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: it should have trackbacked hmm
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's there, #46
Framedragger: .onion forums (they still exist, yes) deliberately exclude http referrer header fwiw
Framedragger: ah, k, my bad
Framedragger: (ah indeed, that counts)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, how the fuck did the "butterfly" misspelling of a flutterby catch on ?
mircea_popescu: it's fucking obviously wrong. #conspiracy
mircea_popescu blames pdf to text converters.
Framedragger: heh. etymology is indeed unclear, full of speculation https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/butterfly
mircea_popescu: (pretty obvious to me : if you run finger over winds, the sensation is of buttery smoothness, esp if expression is restricted to the field of experience at the time.)
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [11:46:17] <Framedragger> and also from the cve, "The vulnerability can be exploited even if security modules SELinux and AppArmor are installed with default active policies for MySQL service on major Linux distributions."
Framedragger: (phenomenological clarity notwithstanding, it's not super clear. word may come from old english butere (wiktionary), but that's only one explanation. no/few cited sources it seems)
mircea_popescu: butterfly visual aid : http://67.media.tumblr.com/452cef85f2dce87f90c26c1480c6bae4/tumblr_nij9b19J1l1tkf673o1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: now you know what "baby i'm spent but if you wanna come over we can watch porn and do the butterfly" means.
Framedragger may have been hinted at this very night. the laziness is sometimes frustratin'!
Framedragger: at that*
mircea_popescu: coming next on trilema, a butterfly classification by preferred wrist motion. learn to distinguish the circular girl from the more common sideways girl and the very rare vertical motion girl.
Framedragger: wouldn't exactly object to reading that. girls sometimes are not in the know, either, which is pffft.
mircea_popescu: i was just being facetious! no such article is being prepared! sorry to disappoint.
mircea_popescu: but in the meanwhile, why not try everything see what works. you could call it fuckd-dc
Framedragger: nono i figured re actual article
Framedragger: right on
mircea_popescu: (it's also a wonder why they don't teach girls to masturbate in sex ed / have special sherub camps etc.)
Framedragger: !#tmsr radio
Framedragger: !# tmsr radio
Framedragger: !#s tmsr radio
Framedragger: entirely unrelated: wouldn't it be somethin' to test out some gossipd ideas over *actual* cheap long wave or whatever wave radio devices between these here people?
mircea_popescu: once we have some sort of acceptabru spec all sorts of prototyping work can begin
Framedragger: i think rtl-sdr dongles may be enough, no?
mircea_popescu: possibly, i dunno
mircea_popescu: but honestly, gossipd as a finished product can not possibly come other than with a mesh-over-wifi and mesh-over-radio ready made.
mircea_popescu: as people (alf, mostly) pointed out in the intervening coupla years, there's absolutely no sane reason to marry gossipd to extant-internet, or tcp/ip or etc, as the original draft was trying to
Framedragger: indeed, indeed. hence an itch to try things over radio whilst reading those comments there
mircea_popescu: truth being that this is a historical occasion, with actually correct, well designed internet within grasp
Framedragger: yawell, don't forget, routing is not a trivial problem. this is only the very beginning, i think. an occasion nonetheless though, surely!
mircea_popescu: the very beginning.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 14:23 Framedragger: i think rtl-sdr dongles may be enough, no?
asciilifeform: you might be thinking of 'gnu radio' etc.
mircea_popescu: you can get emitting ones too neh ?
asciilifeform: that'd be 'gnu radio'.
asciilifeform: 'rtl-sdr' (i have a couple here) are cheapo programmable wideband ~receivers~
mircea_popescu: why don't they call them sdrr then!
asciilifeform: which is a quite useful thing, both for 'i can hear my keyboard across the street, wtf', other experiments, but also for picking up eventually mircea_popescu's shortwave.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah yeah, that's what it'd be called then. (there is some experimental stuff but nvm, http://www.rtl-sdr.com/using-the-rtl-sdr-as-a-transmitter/ )
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the linked piece is approx. same as the 'transmit with my vga card' from 1990s.
asciilifeform: it is not a useful way to do anything.
Framedragger: and, you know, listening to them weird russian number stations and pulsars http://www.rtl-sdr.com/using-the-rtl-sdr-as-a-transmitter/
Framedragger: asciilifeform: suresure! you're right
mircea_popescu: another thing i'd like to see prototyped is quadcopter mediated data exchange. have the guy plug out a usb stick from one back panel, fly it over, plug it into another back panel.
asciilifeform: as a receiver it's pretty good (but no shortwave without a freq. down-converter, iirc)
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is quite viable, if the animal spends ten minutes in flight and carries say 32 GB sticks you're looking at
mircea_popescu: !~calc 32 * 2 ** 30 * 8 / 10 / 60
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 32 * 2 ** 30 * 8 / 10 / 60 = 4.581298449066667E8
Framedragger: ah yeah, the "terabytes of USB keys in truck" data rate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this presupposes a 100% landing rate, and a time 0 to encipher and fill the stick, and then to empty it
mircea_popescu: half tbps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform raptor baby
asciilifeform: even then.
mircea_popescu: why ? you can lose SOME sticks.
asciilifeform: 'lose some choppers' quickly becomes expensive.
mircea_popescu: this is not a design concern at this level.
asciilifeform: esp. if all you're trying to do is to cover a 10min flight range.
asciilifeform: which is ~all you get from extant batteries.
mircea_popescu: what do they do, like 10km/h ?
Framedragger: !#s cuba usb
asciilifeform: lel sneakernet is 'exotic' now ?
Framedragger too young to remember soviet
mircea_popescu: the thing with the 10minute / 2km range is that in most circumstances, this is a half hour distance. if you have to drive it - gotta park, unpark, holy shit. most people live within 2km of their friends anyway.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: we traded games like 'elite', rather than lolcat vids, but otherwise similar.
Framedragger: cool stuff. same with films, vinyls etc as i understand it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: chopper as ~radio relay~ is imho more interesting.
shinohai fondly remembers all-night lan parties in his neighborhood.
asciilifeform: it would significantly complicate enemy triangulation, if you had a great many.
asciilifeform: (recall the saddam gps jammer thread)
asciilifeform: i have wondered what the state-of-the-art in ~stationkeeping~ re quadcopter presently is.
asciilifeform: (how long could it sit put at a few km altitude if it had solar battery etc.)
Framedragger: i'd look at HAB
asciilifeform: balloons suck
Framedragger: better than 10 minutes of fly time
asciilifeform: they leak. and have gigantic radar cross-sections.
asciilifeform: ergo not a suitable instrument for the bite of 10,000,001 gnats against the back of a dying sovereign.
Framedragger: there exist very small HABs with basically just a transmitter/repeater and super small solar cell, fwiw
asciilifeform: thing is still visible from half a continent away on radar.
asciilifeform: and pops in a month or so.
asciilifeform: all the while blown around by the four winds
asciilifeform: (unless tethered to the ground, and you can recall how well that worked for usg last year)
Framedragger: i think you may be disappoint at the amount of stationkeeping time you can do on quadcopter or w/e, even with a large solar cell which then surely will render a larger radar profile; but maybe i'm mistaken - interesting
asciilifeform: shinohai: the whole point of cheap chopper is to piss on 'restricted'
Framedragger: asciilifeform: a month >> "stationkeeping time", so there's that. and they can be super cheap. and mass-produced. a HAB army anyone?
trinque: why chopper rather than small plane
Framedragger: but yeah disadvantages galore
trinque: same-ish size, but generates lift.
trinque: have the thing circle
asciilifeform: trinque: no especially good reason. plane with well-programmed comp can probably just as well keep station.
mircea_popescu: airborne relay also perfectly fine.
asciilifeform: in fact, the ideal machine would likely be an ornithopter that - unlike any extant ornithopter - rides air currents.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the beauty of bitcoin is that it actually allows one to permissionlessly serve.
mircea_popescu: build your chopper fleet, cover some nodes, earn BTC.
shinohai is suddenly very interested
asciilifeform: we also had a thread some years ago about flying machines draping parasitic inductor-powered relays on power lines, etc.
Framedragger: ornithopter would be l33t
asciilifeform: and other terrorisms.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i wanted it to stay put i'd simply add a baloon.
mircea_popescu: dirigible very workable as a 2-3kg quadcopper
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wind.
mircea_popescu: even so.
asciilifeform: which is why few folks are riding dirigibles today.
mircea_popescu: folks are heavy.
Framedragger: so what, wind. have redundant amounts
mircea_popescu: this is calculable, energy loss to course correction vs energy saved from buoyancy.
asciilifeform: H2 has ~1g/L of lift. He2 - slightly less.
mircea_popescu: also top of balloon makes the perfect surface for solar cells.
Framedragger: microhabs are like a chip with cell, mass in grams
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the copter itself would be most of the mass.
Framedragger: unless, you know, you removed the copter!
Framedragger: but, sure
mircea_popescu: anyway. this sketch of a discussion should suffice to show that the enemy has no hope of ever getting a perimeter around the network again.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ideally you want it to empty the balloon and return "home" sometime.
asciilifeform: some years ago i had a very lengthy exchange with al schwartz about an ocean bottle relay
mircea_popescu: but this aside sure, the design space is wide open.
asciilifeform: (he had - and afaik still has - a 'drop sealed champaigne bottles from airplanes, with messages, track currents' project)
asciilifeform: the nifty thing about my (circa 2009) sketch of 'naval gossipd' is that power is cheap
asciilifeform: bottle is rolled by the waves.
mircea_popescu: shinohai i don't think anyone seriously contemplates importing the aferations of random soi dissant sovereigns.
mircea_popescu: re plane vs chopper : afaik per watt, chopper offers more flight than plane.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it depends what means 'flight'
mircea_popescu: that "lift" plane generates comes at a massive cost
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as implicit here, "be a station in flight"
asciilifeform: chopper converts to brick (models do not have the inertial mass to autorotate) if power cut.
asciilifeform: plane - not.
mircea_popescu: eh, the plane-to-glider conversion is a sort of "my car is also a submarine"
mircea_popescu: never works too well.
BingoBoingo: <Framedragger> unless, you know, you removed the copter! << THermocouple, epoxy, car exhaust!
mircea_popescu: yeah BingoBoingo is right, we also had the "add to people's cars, without asking the people, have it powered from heat exchange etc"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu : more 'bang for the buck' if parasitically ovipositing on rooftop chimneys, lights, street lamps, similar.
mircea_popescu: also, sure.
mircea_popescu: no movement there, but yes.
mircea_popescu: also, a chopper fleet able to do anon cctv takeout missions is something with a future.
asciilifeform: great with a balanced diet of that 30w laser diode.
mircea_popescu: "takeout how ?" "spray epoxy glue on lens"
asciilifeform: lens is too cheap.
asciilifeform: melt the ccd.
asciilifeform: (ordinary vandals live in every town and lenses unscrew)
mircea_popescu: the expense of servicing cameras is getting crew to mount pole etc. not the parts. the parts are all cheap - great satan just prints to cover.
asciilifeform: in usa there are even aficionados who shoot'em out
asciilifeform: it is common enough problem in towns with 'traffic camera.'
mircea_popescu: chopper should also be able to fire a 38 yes.
mircea_popescu: should work.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the small chopper that fires so much as a 'bb' accurately and stays upright is afaik yet unsolved problem.
mircea_popescu: and coupled with gossipd, it becomes impossible to establish "whose chopper this is". owner reports his choppers stolen, good luck "enforcing".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, what, it can't handle a few g's ? why not ?
asciilifeform: buy toystore chopper and then kick it in flight
asciilifeform: and you'll see.
asciilifeform: the motors are too small to adequately compensate for the 'jerk'.
mircea_popescu: you compensate for it over time.
asciilifeform: sorta same reason why 'virtual glove' never is able to simulate banging your fist on a hard table, it always ends up being a 'gellatin' table.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you cannot compensate for dynamic instability (roll, spin) 'over time'
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539987 << obvious to any schoolchild - insect has ~0 to do with butter, but clearly you can see it flutter as it goes by, therefore many kids have separately come up with genius transform to flutterby
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 14:02 mircea_popescu: incidentally, how the fuck did the "butterfly" misspelling of a flutterby catch on ?
asciilifeform: it has to be immediate.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buy a toy and try it.
asciilifeform: whack it with a table tennis paddle.
asciilifeform: ... before we lose this thread, i will point out that the correct projectile weapon for a toy flyer is 'gyrojet' rocket.
asciilifeform: very simple to manufacture, also.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: No, the reverse. Thing should be called Flutterby, but retards insist on calling it butterfly
asciilifeform: this way you avoid eating the blunt end of newton's 3rd law.
asciilifeform: !#s gyrojet
mircea_popescu: anyway. 38 shot is about 300 W at barrel exit. for a 3kg shooter this translates to say 10 m/s
mircea_popescu: big whoop, over ten seconds friction + your engines reduce it to .5
PeterL: gyroget: cool futuristic weapon that does not actually perform as well as classic rifle. Would have been useful if instead of firing bullet-sized thing would fire slightly larger grenade type thing.
asciilifeform: if you can avoid roll.
mircea_popescu: not to say that gyrojet is out or anything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well you are the one pointing the shot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was, believe or not, a problem even for large plane.
asciilifeform: who recalls the a10 gunship.
mircea_popescu: hey, warthog does manage to fire those "girl you'd fuck" sized bullets...
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/difficulty-up-2-3-in-fifth-adjustment-since-second-halving/ << Qntra - Difficulty Up 2.3% In Fifth Adjustment Since Second Halving
mircea_popescu: note the GAU-8 fires 30x173 at 1km/s
mircea_popescu: !~google PGU-13/B HEI weight
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 30mm GAU-8/A Ammunition - Orbital ATK: <https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/30mm/docs/GAU-8A_Fact_Sheet.pdf>; PGU -46/ B HEI - Orbital ATK: <https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/30mm/docs/PGU-46B_Fact_Sheet.pdf>; GAU-8 Avenger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger>
mircea_popescu: fucken useless.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: roughly arithmetize the mass of the bullet / mass of the aircraft , in each case.
mircea_popescu: trying to.
asciilifeform: firing, e.g., luger, from a toy chopper, is roughly similar to the notion of firing 'big bertha' from a 'warthog'.
asciilifeform: which is to say: you ~could~. exactly ~once~.
mircea_popescu: seems the cannon fires 400gram projectiles, about 70/s. so it expells 30kgs of material per second ; and it weighs 150 tons.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the scheme contemplated here expells 100 grams of material per second, and weighs 3kgs.
mircea_popescu: so like two degrees of magnitude off
mircea_popescu: however, the constraints are material durability and relative density, because the main factor is atmospheric response.
asciilifeform: that's the other thing - impedance mismatch between weapon and airframe.
mircea_popescu: also the chopper not being a plane, it can tolerate a lot more than the warthog could.
mircea_popescu: also, it's not manned.
asciilifeform: the latter is typically made of soft, light stuff.
mircea_popescu: yeah you'd need duralumin framed choppers.
mircea_popescu: but really - using plastic for a serious (as opposed to toy) chopper is stupid, you want duralumin anyway
asciilifeform: know why these are not in the toystore ?
asciilifeform: small engines have atrocious power-weight ratio.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but plastic is heavier than duralumin per strength.
asciilifeform: modellists build aluminum choppers, they are motorbike-sized.
asciilifeform: once in a while you hear of a fella who got carried away at the controls, lost his head.
mircea_popescu: modellists suffer from mental disabilities, too.
asciilifeform: they don't scale down from that size.
mircea_popescu: duralumin has about 70k psi.
asciilifeform: try it on paper. take the useful payload lift of the toy engines, and subtract the mass of the aluminum airframe from it.
mircea_popescu: whatever vynil toy store uses has what, 60 ? if you're lucky and it's very good, pvc has like 15
mircea_popescu: so basically, a beam made of 1kg of plastic could be made of 1gram of duralumin.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fatigue is not the issue. behaviour under shock wave is the issue.
asciilifeform: plastics crack.
mircea_popescu: metal beats polymer under shock.
mircea_popescu: serious application chopper will be made of aluminum alloy, not vinyl.
asciilifeform: (even the fabled glock, cracks. but at least not right away. might want to look into what glock frame was made from.)
asciilifeform: and this is , unlike much of the other matter, not a theoretical question, folks have sweated over 'what is the smallest aluminum chopper that can fly' , read them, not me.
mircea_popescu: and a kg of duralumin hull will cut a hole through a pile of plastic choppers.
mircea_popescu: they are not in my wot ; i will ignore them happily.
asciilifeform: diametric is quite likely flying an oddball chopper as we speak. roust him from his sleep, and ask.
asciilifeform: (fella built 1,001 types.)
mircea_popescu: !~later tell diametric do you know of a good reason a 2-3kg chopper couldn't be built on aluminum alloy frame ? not whether it is, nor why afficionado's don't, but whether couldn't.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the weird farms, http://67.media.tumblr.com/2698f6760e7f0f575560258cdb67b94f/tumblr_nwphykHJLg1ucyfvgo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&as_q=aluminum+quadcopter+frame << no shortage.
mircea_popescu: then... what are you on about lol.
asciilifeform: the cost.
mircea_popescu: 200 bux ?
asciilifeform: (in endurance)
mircea_popescu: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MF-500mm-Aluminum-Tube-Folding-Four-axis-Alien-Quadcopter-Aircraft-Frame-w-MF-BMP-Brushless-Gimbal/206605_1562408736.html << neat looking thing, too.
asciilifeform: i know of no example with anything but plastic props, incidentally.
asciilifeform: they, as every aficionado knows, reliably shatter if they so much as touch a blade of grass.
mircea_popescu: so. that item above : for 200 bucks, can fire a 38. you will have to add some software for it to fire in a convenient direction for itself while also hitting target.
mircea_popescu: not unsolvable problem.
asciilifeform: ideally straight down.
mircea_popescu: or straight up, or against current mommentum or w/e.
asciilifeform: and entirely coincidental with center of mass.
asciilifeform: 'straight up' will likely convert the thing to a brick immediately.
mircea_popescu: possibly. depends how high this is.
mircea_popescu: in fact, this is a study on ballistics. fire from center of mass at 3pi/4 angle, go for a parabolic ride.
mircea_popescu: (why 45 degrees ? maximum distance. which means maximum friction.)
asciilifeform: PeterL: not that idiocy again
asciilifeform: (astonishing how many imbeciles bought it wholesale)
asciilifeform: quite reminiscent of the 'balloon boy' incident.
mircea_popescu: quite reminescent of the "man half penis" medieval things.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 15:53 asciilifeform: heads, leucrota, manticores, vultures, paranders, weasels, dragons, hoopoes, owls, basilisks, hypnales, presters, spectafici, scorpions, saurians, whales, scitales, amphisbenae, iaculi, dipsases, green lizards, pilot fish, octopi, morays, and sea turtles.' -- eco's 'name of the rose'
asciilifeform: btw if yer firing straight down, why not shotgun shell.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why not.
asciilifeform: more or less ideal weapon for the scenario
asciilifeform: low-pressure; smooth bore.
mircea_popescu: why not spider shot lol.
asciilifeform: what's that
mircea_popescu: ancient marine warfare thing. like linked shot but smaller.
mircea_popescu: basically "cannonball made of chain, unwraps in flight."
asciilifeform: can fit these, and more, in '12 gauge' shell.
asciilifeform: iirc they are even commercially sold in usa.
asciilifeform: (for what, i have nfi.)
PeterL: why not just drop bullet from above rather than firing?
asciilifeform: there are even, iirc, white phosphorous shells.
mircea_popescu: hey, some people take pest control seriously.
mircea_popescu: VARMINT GUN
asciilifeform: PeterL: great if you're 70km in orbit
PeterL: how high would it need to be to be lethal?
mircea_popescu: omaigerd you can do your math too cantcha ?
asciilifeform: PeterL: ww1 state of the art
asciilifeform: caltrop dropped from biplane.
mircea_popescu: mv**2 = 2mgh
asciilifeform: they also had little darts.
PeterL: (I probably calculated that in HS physics class, but I am too lazy now)
asciilifeform: laziness, of this type, is a sin, PeterL .
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1000 * 2 / 2 / 10
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000 * 2 / 2 / 10 = 100
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1000 ** 2 / 2 / 10
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000 ** 2 / 2 / 10 = 50000
mircea_popescu: 50km gives you 1000 m/s (ie, gau-8 muzzle velocity) for arbitrary item discounting air friction.
asciilifeform: terminal velocity for the dart is usually much less.
mircea_popescu: rather, yes.
asciilifeform: you cannot actually discount the friction, aha.
PeterL: add some fins to get it spinning, avoids tumbling
mircea_popescu: at the cost of more friction
asciilifeform: !# horse splashes
asciilifeform: !#s horse splashes
a111: Logged on 2015-02-14 05:25 asciilifeform: 'You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes.'
mircea_popescu: such elegant expression. schwartz iirc ?
asciilifeform: jbs haldane.
mircea_popescu: ah ok
asciilifeform: c. 1928.
asciilifeform: worth a read.
asciilifeform: and eminently relevant to the 'pistol on quadcopter' thread.
asciilifeform: 'A wet mouse has to carry about its own weight of water. A wet fly has to lift many times its own weight and, as everyone knows, a fly once wetted by water or any other liquid is in a very serious position indeed. An insect going for a drink is in as great danger as a man leaning out over a precipice in search of food. If it once falls into the grip of the surface tension of the water—that is to say, gets wet—it is likely to rema
asciilifeform: in so until it drowns. A few insects, such as water-beetles, contrive to be unwettable; the majority keep well away from their drink by means of a long proboscis.'
asciilifeform: and in particular, '...a large bird such as an eagle or kite does not keep in the air mainly by moving its wings. It is generally to be seen soaring, that is to say balanced on a rising column of air. And even soaring becomes more and more difficult with increasing size. Were this not the case eagles might be as large as tigers and as formidable to man as hostile aeroplanes.'
PeterL: looks like a bullet terminal velocity is about 100 m/s, so you would reach that anywhere over 500 m.
asciilifeform: PeterL: bombardiering is an actual thing, could read up on the problems involved with actually hitting target.
asciilifeform: not as if subj were a new thing discovered this week.
asciilifeform: goes back a century.
PeterL: not saying it is new, just that it might help with quadcopter armaments, using gravity to assist rather than trying to think of shooting like guy standing on ground
asciilifeform: one reason why ordinary airplanes drop bombs, rather than darts, is that the necessary accuracy for a dart hitting a man-sized target is not available.
asciilifeform: for entirely mundane physical reasons.
asciilifeform: now one interesting scenario is if the flying machine dropped ~itself~ as a bomb, using propellers for course correction on the way down.
asciilifeform: not so much 'smart' required depending on what is being aimed at.
PeterL: I guess if it is cheap enough/target is high value that could be useful
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: So. Turns out your Drone thing is a reality.
thestringpuller: old news tho
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: these come out every month or so.
asciilifeform: and that's just the publicized ones.
thestringpuller: i kno. but i've talked with a hobbyist turned "professional" and does discreet delivery with drones in this manner. they've gotten highly advanced.
Framedragger: hipster SF version still exists (found this some months ago) : https://trees.delivery/
thestringpuller: his master idea is having a mobile charging network for long distance flights
thestringpuller: currently dude is working on in air "refueling"
ben_vulpes: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/22/drone-carrying-drugs-crashes-near-mexican-us-border << why people do this and not fixed wing is a mind-boggle
Framedragger: huh very neat, good for him says i
ben_vulpes: could be ~entirely autonomous barring loading of landing strip coordinates
ben_vulpes: small market of remote delivery could be served by a fleet of autonomous, gas-fueled fixed-wings.
ben_vulpes: make the recipient fuel 'em back up, what
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: this is actually what I just said
ben_vulpes: no, not in the slightest wtf.
ben_vulpes: "discreen delivery with drones in this manner" is a quadcopter per the guardian link
trinque: said a bunch of vague and refueling in spookyquotes
ben_vulpes: and just how does one 'refuel' a qc in flight, hot swap lipo?
thestringpuller: no. per my commentary.
ben_vulpes: do please cite where you said anything re fixed wing or ice
thestringpuller: the ArduPlane project is old af, but requires actual brain to use.
asciilifeform: lel, 'seekrit' gas-fueled model plane
asciilifeform: ever ~heard~ one of these things go ?
ben_vulpes: discreet 2 stroke!
thestringpuller: "drone" is a general term ben_vulpes NO NEED to get all riled up
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha lolk.
ben_vulpes: discreet *ice*
thestringpuller: Perhaps I should just use UAV for now on
ben_vulpes: "drone" is a made up product category by mattel
asciilifeform: 'drone' as name for pilotless machine is circa ww2
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> discreet 2 stroke! << :Launch and Retrieval vehicles double as lawcare truck!
asciilifeform: (they were good ~strictly for target practice then)
PeterL: I thought "drone" was just a less-TLA-y version of "UAV"?
asciilifeform: (in ru we just say 'безпилотник')
thestringpuller: For one two stroke engine planes are from the fucking 50's. Those are antiques. Most advanced hobbyist used nitro powered planes. They are slightly noisier than RC model, but given how high you can fly them in practice it's kinda whatever. Second, the autonomous part has been around since the arduino became "mainstream" albeit asciilifeform may find it a snore fest the APM unit can fully control an RC plane. If programmed properly it
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if the thing is landing cargo of cocaine or plutonium in your back yard, the noise is not 'whatever'
thestringpuller: doesn't land.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: But large amounts of nitro fuel can not be excused as "occupational necessity" as 2-cycle gas/oil mix can.
thestringpuller: or at least doesn't land with payload
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: bomber ?
thestringpuller: i guess it's the same physics involved.
asciilifeform: incidentally, if noise is no concern, why not use 'pulsejet' engine as in ww2 'buzz bomb.'
asciilifeform: doesn't get any cheaper.
asciilifeform: no rotors, no propellers
thestringpuller: Those fuckers.
thestringpuller: You'll see a few muthafuckers with those things on the airfield. I dunno how "reliable" they are tho. Then again, I'm not enough of a pilot to even call myself a hobbyist.
thestringpuller: The only reason the RC plane-UAV dropoff service became a thing was due to insurmountable traffic.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#586 << yes ; main point of wings in pajura is to pilot the downward thrust towards victim.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [15:46:35] <asciilifeform> and in particular, '...a large bird such as an eagle or kite does not keep in the air mainly by moving its wings. It is generally to be seen soaring, that is to say balanced on a rising column of air. And even soaring becomes more and more difficult with increasing size. Were this not the case eagles might be as large as tigers and as formidable to
scriba: man as hostile aeroplanes.'
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the film clip in link is good illustration.
asciilifeform: engine that costs what ~can of sardines costs.
asciilifeform: no props, no pistons, no oil.
thestringpuller: No throttle.
asciilifeform: why not ?
thestringpuller: was a joke. the one you sent is a pretty advanced version :P
asciilifeform: http://www.airindustriesresearch.com/siram/images/diagram.jpg << can dispense with the flapper also.
asciilifeform: now all you have is... a spark plug and pipe.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [16:01:39] <ben_vulpes> and just how does one 'refuel' a qc in flight, hot swap lipo?
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: large amounts of nitro fuel << hobby shops don't seem to care. People go through barrels of the thing during a nerdy weekend with friends on the airfield.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: $1000 piston engine on 'disposable' machine is idiocy.
asciilifeform: fine for usg. not so great for people who actually count their money.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yes, but when going out to landing strip one doesn't deal with shopkeeps. WHich is why you need to have stringtimmers on truck.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the usb-bandwidth drone could in principle be designed with two batteries. it starts using one, then when dead moves to other. and design could allow for drone tango - where they connect, as per ancient thread with alf, to make bigger drone - which could conceivably allow them to swap batteries, in a strange sort of robomating dance)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: '2 batteries, fallover' is pretty standard.
mircea_popescu: yes but give your friend your fallover battery isnt
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Um. I met a hobbyist once who spent 10 grand on a plane. Point for Traffic Delivery Bypasser is to be resusable not "disposable".
asciilifeform: recall the 'battery to fly loaf of bread to buenos aires from washington' thread ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, none of this is very practical yet.
mircea_popescu: i paranthesized mostly for the ... robomorphical interest. SEX! for machines! increases their lifespan, just like for people, but differently.
mircea_popescu: "why do drones prefer to fuck young drones ?" "fresher batteries"
mircea_popescu: incidentally, what's the current list of public trb nodes ? i have -connect=22.214.171.124 126.96.36.199 188.8.131.52 184.108.40.206 220.127.116.11 18.104.22.168 of which a coupla be answering.
mircea_popescu: oh and re the "it's not hillary" conspiracy theory : it'd be fucking epic if they actually... switcher her with trump. "you dun wanna vote for clinton ? fine, vote for trump then!"
mircea_popescu: "we'll just move the contents later, what."
asciilifeform: eh i can see a, e.g., michele obama, switcheroo, but not the old fart.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if either of my trbtrons aren't answering, now or whenever, gimme a ping
asciilifeform: i'd like to know.
asciilifeform: incidentally perhaps mircea_popescu remembers this, but '-connect' results in a node that no one can ever connect to.
asciilifeform: (it can only be operated with local knobs)
asciilifeform: if this is the intended item, ignore.
shinohai: From tardstalk "News: Due to DDoS attacks, there may be periodic downtime."
mircea_popescu: yeah imagine that, you'd expect obama'd have upgraded to a recent model sometime in the past 8 years.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's not an authorized part of the kabuki.
asciilifeform: last time they had a pres who wasn't a capon, they had to shoot him.
BingoBoingo: At is age and weight the edema has likely already capon-ized his cajones. All that's left of historical Trump the bankruptcy artist is a stimulant habit and sorry for his loss.
asciilifeform: dunno about you BingoBoingo but i'm lookin' forward to the sovgeriatric era of usa
asciilifeform: when they wheel one in, and cart him out 6mo later, rinse, repeat.
BingoBoingo: lol, next time I gotta make the "candidates are old" declaration in press will have to wheel that out.
asciilifeform: see brezhnev, andropov, et al.
asciilifeform: !#s gerontocracy
phf: asciilifeform: are you using breadboarded/soldered version, or you ended up printing the pcb too for the keyboard controller?
asciilifeform: phf: i bought the pcb.
asciilifeform: you can also make own, if you like, it is not complicated.
asciilifeform: can also load in own fw.
asciilifeform: (the fw is not complicated either.)
phf: i was thinking of just doing a mess of wires, but there was that shop floating around in the logs, that would print a pcb for you and put chips on it
asciilifeform: phf: won't work. the capacitative sensing needs ~equal paths.
asciilifeform: and minimal stray load.
asciilifeform: macrofab will print the pcb.
asciilifeform: and populate.
asciilifeform: if you buy cornall's pcb, be aware that the usb jack comes off if you so much as fart on iot.
asciilifeform: verily it suxx.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119015 << and yes i know mircea_popescu has auto-ping, but linking here for other folks.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ^ this crackpottery brought to you by h. altschuller's 'exacerbate the unwanted phenomenon to solve it' heuristic.
asciilifeform: as described in his last 'triz' and elsewhere.
PeterL: phf is there a way to make search on logs non-case sensitive?
phf: PeterL: not until i fix the algorithm, that was on my backlog but got overtaken with all the stability issues
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it also solves replay.
phf: i wanted to fix the unicode search in the process, but i'll punt on that for one. it kind of works, but not surprisingly doing boyer-moore correctly with unicode is ugly and suboptimal.
asciilifeform: phf: the hard part is to actually get a hold of a 'model f'.
asciilifeform: (the pc xt model f is iirc unsuitable.)
phf: like in that russian joke "i got two"
phf: picked them up from a retrohardware person i know. pretty sure i burned some respect points for being "the retrokeyboard faggot"
asciilifeform: phf: make sure it is not the 100x more common but identically-shaped 'terminal model-m.'
phf: both are 6110xxx, but i'll know for sure once i start poking at them. in either case they were free
asciilifeform: is the bottom made of iron ?
asciilifeform: if yes - model f.
asciilifeform: (and the legs are on round swivels)
asciilifeform: i also recommend to sand and repaint the whole thing, with 'appliance epoxy' (get in any american houshold goods shop)
asciilifeform: i did.
asciilifeform: do not try to paint the legs, or the wells they rotate in. i did, and then had to scrape the paint off with a knife, they did not want to turn. the tolerances are quite surprisingly fine.
asciilifeform: likewise do NOT try to paint the plastic clips that retain the stabilizer wires on long keys. pop'em out by pushing with a blunt pencil from the bottom side. they will happily sit back in later.
phf: i'm having hard time figuring out how to even raise those legs without repainting
asciilifeform: push on the round buttons.
asciilifeform: there is a spring mechanism.
asciilifeform: be sure to photograph it before pulling it apart.
asciilifeform: it is a bitch to get together.
asciilifeform: the real misery is soldering the ribbon.
asciilifeform: desolder the old one with copper wick, do NOT simply cut it off !
phf: nah, i'm just going to dremel the thing and replace it with cherry switches
asciilifeform: lel phf it is easier to make new one.
asciilifeform: there is no place for any kind of switch in that thing.
asciilifeform: ( phf is prolly trolololling but pointing out for readers. )
phf: i think the goal really is to read paino forte from capacitance. at fortississimo keyboard should start injecting random "fuck" and "motherfucker" into stream as you type
asciilifeform: phf: i inadvertently made this the first time i put it together.
asciilifeform: calibrated the sensitivity a little low.
asciilifeform: or rather, high.
asciilifeform: but yes - with this beast, you actually COULD.
asciilifeform: another bonus is that there is no reason this thing would ever fear water, or dust.
asciilifeform: (there are no exposed contacts)
asciilifeform: it is almost as joyous a thing as the old reed switch keyboards in ru.
thestringpuller: phf: Did you see the raid on that camp at burning man? Shit's gotten crazy there. Inhouse fighting.
phf: didn't see the raid itself, but yeah much talk was about it on arrival
asciilifeform: care to summarize for folks who have nfi ?
phf: bezzlers come to burn, pay for overpriced accommodations, act like assholes. this year one of those overpriced accommodations places got raided. water tank poured onto audio equipment, electric lines cut, tires punctured, etc.
asciilifeform: by whom ?
thestringpuller: by burners who were po'ed
thestringpuller: out of the other 70k people a group of them were probably like "fuck deez guys" went ot their camp and fucked it up
asciilifeform: phf: what means 'overpriced accommodations' in this context ?
thestringpuller: 70k people go to burning man and establish camps. a small few who aren't really burners just, SF-folk who wanna do drugs and "party" would buy rvs and stuff
thestringpuller: and then have basically burning man "Hotel style" which fine, but it was a "closed camp" which
thestringpuller: is considered extremely rude to the hippie folk who embrace the spirit and principles of burning man
asciilifeform: for what purpose do the 'closed' folk come to the same fest ?
asciilifeform: they could just as easily have their own, neh ?
asciilifeform quite innocent of subj
phf: asciilifeform: well, i don't know the details of "white ocean" camp in question, but it usually involved souped up rv's, a staff of paid employees to do your cooking for you, often direct flight from wherever to black rock city airport, etc.
PeterL: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119021 response
mircea_popescu goes to read comments.
phf: asciilifeform: sort of nobody cares if you're reach, but there's already been tension between people who are roughing it and people who are doing it in comfort.
asciilifeform: PeterL: answer'd.
PeterL: "Glamping" instead of "camping"
thestringpuller: phf: well when you commodify the experience it goes against the spirit of the thing.
asciilifeform: phf: it was a mindfuck a year or two ago reading about burningman's internal usg camp.
phf: thestringpuller: burning man is not a TAZ, so i've no idea what you're talking about
asciilifeform: what's that
thestringpuller: phf: Decommodification In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships
phf: asciilifeform: the california weirdo concept from which "burning man" sprung up.
asciilifeform: phf: enlighten me
thestringpuller: from >> burningman.org/culture/philosophical-center/10-principles
asciilifeform: i thought it was just this artsy festival thing.
thestringpuller: full thing: "In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience."
thestringpuller: ^- the camp in question was turning the experience into a commodity...
ben_vulpes: yeah i mean if you buy that i've got a ticket to this other desert festival to sell ya
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in case this wasn't obvious from the comment, the 'lighthouse' scheme is a variant of 'd-c', rather than 'sh', but with some of the advantages of the latter.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: man. so bitter against da hippies.
ben_vulpes: not even wrong
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [16:59:58] <asciilifeform> dunno about you BingoBoingo but i'm lookin' forward to the sovgeriatric era of usa
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:07:19] <phf> i think the goal really is to read paino forte from capacitance. at fortississimo keyboard should start injecting random "fuck" and "motherfucker" into stream as you type
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#761 << yeah well tell you what, when i go to http://trilema.com/2016/lxs-ninxs/ i ALSO don't go to eat cooked rats and live with nine other people in a bathroom. i go to enjoy the cheap local cunt while preserving my luxurious lifestyle.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:31:52] <thestringpuller> 70k people go to burning man and establish camps. a small few who aren't really burners just, SF-folk who wanna do drugs and "party" would buy rvs and stuff
mircea_popescu: sane country'd have rounded up the 70k people, beat the shit out of them, made them re-make audio equipment, tyres etc by hand
mircea_popescu: twice, for good measure.
mircea_popescu: the fucking entitlement in that land, it's something else by now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, the tension comes from burningman having once been a 'poorfag resort' where folks pretend that mircea_popescu doesn't exist, etc.
asciilifeform: *where folks go to pretend
mircea_popescu: tough titties as well.
asciilifeform: plus i had nfi that mircea_popescu had to move his legs to get the 'cheap local cunt', i thought it gravitated into his event horizon by itself
mircea_popescu: optionality follows wealth not will. this is a point young dicklets love to eschew, which is why violence is a societal requirement.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform variety is the mother of invention.
asciilifeform: fwiw it isn't the 'cooked rat' that puts asciilifeform off the fest, but the '9 people in a bathroom'
asciilifeform: i'd happily eat the rat in the forest, alone.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#770 << this is a luxury. as all other luxuries, strictly reserved for the rich.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:35:03] <phf> asciilifeform: sort of nobody cares if you're reach, but there's already been tension between people who are roughing it and people who are doing it in comfort.
mircea_popescu: poor people don't get to not care i'm rich.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: except in burn land you really don't...
mircea_popescu: evidently, eh.
mircea_popescu: "except my wife really doesn't" also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh you can club'em over the head, if can be bothered, but they won't quit trying to not care - why would they.
mircea_popescu: i am not against their trying lol.
thestringpuller: there are plenty of rich people who go to burns with open camps :P
mircea_popescu: for the same money they could try to become a cat-dragon or w/e. try with all their might, they still don't get to.
thestringpuller: except that isn't _the point_
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller optionality follows wealth not will. rich people can do whatever they want. poorfags however - poorfag.
mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what the point is once money walks in.
asciilifeform: which is how usg has its own posh resort inside burningman.
asciilifeform: as per last year's thread.
mircea_popescu: funny - they didn't burn THAT.
mircea_popescu: ie, they're upset at the lucky crabs, not at the guy putting them all in the pot.
asciilifeform: crab, i suspect, understands that he cannot constructively deal with the cook.
asciilifeform: with other crabs - yes.
mircea_popescu: define constructively. he's meat anyway.
asciilifeform: whatever would make a difference.
mircea_popescu: if were gonna pour water, could as well poured it there as here.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: ideally a burn is based on willing participants following a set of principles i.e. decommodification. Traditionally this results in wealth being "non existent". But ideals and actuality are usually different.
mircea_popescu: anyway. an inept, unskilled AND DISOBEDIENT populace. in the quaint words of the virgin mary, "holy shit dude"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you're not serious, are you ?
thestringpuller: in burn world I am. in this world yea it's not realistic.
asciilifeform: now i gotta ask, would mircea_popescu bust into 'disneyland' to remind the childrenz that there aren't actually any such thing as friendly gigantic mice ?
mircea_popescu: and this doesn't suggest anything to you ?
asciilifeform: because as i understand 'burningman', it is a similar item
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really ; why'd i bothar.
asciilifeform: well why would you bother with 'burningman' ?
mircea_popescu: but children and young adults are different populations. i only fuck the latter.
mircea_popescu: so yes, if need be or fancy strikes, i will break through the delusions of interesting piece of meat.
asciilifeform: so simple cunt harvest ?
mircea_popescu: that i am one of the few (hopefully i'm not the only one!) who also bestows the gift of cognition in the process does not change the fact.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else could it conceivably be used for ? you gonna hire people for your sf start-up ?
asciilifeform: i am at a loss re any other use.
mircea_popescu: i suppose at a young age merely rubbing on a large aggregate of human bodies counts as a use.
phf: fwiw, we're not talking about mp coming to the burn and fucking shit up
mircea_popescu: but with time it becomes uninteresting, and then tedious.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah i know, buncha fucktards on mom's credit card, elliot wanna-bes.
phf: it's very much an act from cause place by design, and if mp comes as mp and does his mp thing, only people who will complain should and must be fucked with.
mircea_popescu: yes yes. i have no intention to burn the burn.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem is evidently that the few were afraid of the many ; and the many smelled this and fucked them. wealth isn't actually involved, tis a matter of fear.
phf: bm has always been bezzle rich, it's the big party for jwzs, and the actual confrontation is between bezzle rich san francisco hippies who "get it" and bezzle rich new york preppies who want their van fulls of paid-for bored and disinterested supermodels
asciilifeform: fwiw i can smell the jwz from a continent away, and have never felt much desire to go.
phf: the core of the argument "if you bring your supermodel, she must be covered in alkaline dust by friday, otherwise she looks `too clean`"
mircea_popescu: yeah right, because i'm going to fuck roadkill to pacify the natives now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at a young enough age though, it easily passes for "age specific idiocy" and you don't notice.
trinque: thestringpuller: where the fuck is this "decommodification [sic]" in the ticket price of going, lol
trinque: shouldn't it be free because wealth is bad?
trinque: they don't get to apply the filter of cost and then deny it!
mircea_popescu: aaand gossipd updated.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'презренные деньги'
mircea_popescu: trinque you mean you can't just drive there ?!
asciilifeform: where's that 'translate' knob again.
mircea_popescu: !~translate RU to EN презренные деньги
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: contemptible money
asciilifeform: it isn't a thing in english quite yet.
mircea_popescu: damnable money!
PeterL: dirty lucre?
asciilifeform: hm. possibly.
mircea_popescu: o hey ya not bad. filthy lucre
shinohai: !~bash 12
jhvh1: Last 12 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu is very happy he sat down to try and pin down that spec.
trinque: mircea_popescu: nope. you have to buy a ticket to go to equality camp.
mircea_popescu: it is turning into a thing of beauty.
mircea_popescu: trinque so if i just walk in they... what ?
trinque: dunno how or if they police it. I don't go.
trinque: phf: ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i was recently invited at some "theatric performance" in a very nice old building here, i suppose the local best-effort equivalent of one of those ny things, artsy chicks daughters/wives of lawyers etc.
mircea_popescu: we show up, it's like a locked door. but i happen to know the doorman, so he opens up and we go in, at which point girly wants... to see id.
mircea_popescu: i tell her i dun have any ; she explains that... "it's not her rules". i turn around, ask guy to open door as we're leaving, they go frenzied on the phones, eventually girly is like "no problem, no problem".
mircea_popescu: apparently - didn't need id anymoar. dem rules.
mircea_popescu: we didn't stay anyway, i have a very short tolerance for pompous idiocy these days. but i imagine the whole "ticket to go to desert camp" must be very much the same thing. what, they got chicken wire around the perimeter and watchtowers ?
phf: it's a very large and flat desert, there's no "just walking in" without being noticed. all they need to do is line of sight the perimeter more often than it'll take you to get to perimeter
mircea_popescu: at night ? spotlights ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha really ?
phf: aha :D
trinque: even better
mircea_popescu: how do they get power ?
mircea_popescu: gensets for spotlights for to make sure gets $$$ from ustards ?
phf: a moving object on such a flat space will light up with even most cursory of sweeps, so you can keep the whole concentration camp aspect under the radar
mircea_popescu: what if you park your van right NEXT to their invisible fence, and start giving out free beer for tits ?
phf: i think the way it works is that bmorg technically rents out the entire black rock desert, and then puts the festival somewhere in the center
mircea_popescu: that this affair hasn't spontaneously degenerated into about 500 different, vaguely connected camps is testament to the sheer and amazing lack of testosterone in that population.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha rents from whom ?
phf: usg, as represented by bureau of land management
mircea_popescu: and you'd better not say "us govt" because then i expect proper bidding yes ?
phf: i suspect blm are the first one to get your
mircea_popescu: so how much btc would it cost me to organize burning man instead of "bmorg" whatever the fuck that is.
mircea_popescu: that this hasn't deteriorated into an endless battle of injunctions is even more shocking. bejewels, not even the lawyers work in the us anymore ?
mircea_popescu: almost worth it to do it and then exclude all black people.
mircea_popescu: or what'd piss off the jwz crowd more, gays ?
phf: i suspect nobody cares enough to bid on a desert at $7 million bezzles, what would be the appeal?
mircea_popescu: what's worse, to outbid teh inspektion der konzentrationslager and then insult the ~11.5% slice or the ~2.5% slice ?
mircea_popescu: phf you can put "no niggers" signs every 10 paces.
mircea_popescu: what are you going to do with 7mn ? buy advertising ?
phf: it's already the de facto rule. i think i saw maybe 5 black people in the whole 7 days. (one said that his nickname is "nerdy digger")
mircea_popescu: yeah, gotta go with gays.
mircea_popescu: or you know, not gays because chicks might not show up. how about transshitheads and people with disabilities.
mircea_popescu: lose out on that whole "i want to fuck a quadriplegic" crowd.
asciilifeform: it's a crowd?!
mircea_popescu: i'm sure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you should prolly write a lighthouse thingamajig spec and ping trilema.
asciilifeform: i'ma throw a very basic likbez into a comment, and possibly expand on it later.
phf: "camp polyparadise"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: posted.
Framedragger: (heh nice nod to uk nuclear submarine policy asciilifeform)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: last 4 comments add up to pretty much whole idea as i conceive it.
asciilifeform: $up kenpat07
asciilifeform: !!up kenpat07
deedbot: kenpat07 voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: i guess the idea is that you do "$help" and all the bots harass you with pm's of what they can do?
asciilifeform: hopefully it will normally suffice to search the log for the last time this was done
trinque: why do I need to see your command that results in PMs ?
trinque: send the bot in question a "help" pm
asciilifeform: which bot.
asciilifeform: what if i want ~all~ ?
asciilifeform: sum total of available commands.
shinohai: asciilifeform: mine has page coming soon 9tm0
asciilifeform: i like phf's scheme
asciilifeform: $help and ALL the bots pm you.
shinohai: You dont like individual help commands?
asciilifeform: not if i have nfi where to send'em, shinohai
asciilifeform: or if they consist of $!##$R#@#help, $$#$#$$help, etc.
asciilifeform: that have to be fired individually.
shinohai: I'm just following republic consensus accord to the laws of the bickening
asciilifeform: alternatively i can print out a wall chart for myself once mircea_popescu is done randomly rearranging these...
trinque: oh my god the bitching
trinque: the prefixes were a good idea *because people's fucking bots wont stay up*
trinque: and I can for example implement everything everyone else has over time and when theirs goes away, we shrug
asciilifeform: trinque: for the sake of argument, it is possible to have 1 prefix that triggers, e.g., phf's bot if the latter is up, and Framedragger's if it is not, etc.
trinque: I'm not adding a bunch of retarded state to my bot to be polite to phf's et al
trinque: would if freenode weren't a lying sack of hanno
trinque: but it'll just mean later someone says to me "a111 was gone and deedbot silent, fuck you!"
trinque: then later we're on gossipd and "online" doesn't mean anything
asciilifeform: on gossipnet, 'online' means 'answers'.
asciilifeform: just like, incidentally, on regular ne\t.
shinohai: pete_dushenski: !~help.bash
jhvh1: !~bash (x) will save the last number of chat lines specified. bashed content available @ http://bash.contravex.com/
trinque: asciilifeform: so I have to mother-may-i to each other bot then
trinque: lol, oh fuck we're about to concensus protocol!
trinque runs away to drink
asciilifeform: trinque: fortunately not.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539978 << lulzily, 120+ and counting unique ip hits on my www with valid refer from the gossip page.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 13:58 mircea_popescu: no, we're talking 17k different ips, plenty with garbled or no user agent, so you know. linked behind a password "protected" forum or w/e.
phf: PeterL: search now case insensitive, but for english only. lmk if there are still issues. i kind of hacked it up by mapping A-Z to a-z during read. pretty sure last time i read the paper i had some elegant solution in mind, but it's been so long, i've forgotten what it was
phf: proper unicode search (rather than octet matchin, the way it's doing it now) particularly with case-insensitivity takes like 40% performance hit.. so deferring on it for now
phf: hmm, i'm thinking maybe "grep" search should stay case-sensitive..
phf: asciilifeform: ^ ?
asciilifeform: i regard case-sensitive search as ~useless.
asciilifeform: but perhaps that's just me
ben_vulpes: i'm with you
phf: $s god
phf: #% god
phf: #!s god
phf: !# god
phf: !#s god
ben_vulpes: ^^ bash dat
trinque: !~bash 8
jhvh1: Last 8 lines bashed and pending publication
trinque: wow, how did I ever manage in one go
ben_vulpes: lord almighty
trinque: so hatch chiles, they're delicious
trinque: chopped a bunch of them and went ahead and touched my eye
trinque: like you do.
ben_vulpes: touch your dick next
trinque: done that one before too
asciilifeform: !#s chemists wash
ben_vulpes: so what's your escape...hatch?
trinque: http://www.archaeologysouthwest.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Hatch-chile-ristras.jpg << grocery stores overflowing with these right now
asciilifeform: per al schwartz, 'biologists wash hands ~before~ toilet. chemists - ~after~. physicist - never needs wash'
asciilifeform: err, biologists after
asciilifeform: chemists - before.
trinque: brain autocorrected.
asciilifeform: trinque is apparently a case of chemist who forgot-before
trinque: where does putting hatch chile on my dick before sex fall in the prank to assault continuum?
mircea_popescu: !!up kenpat06
deedbot: kenpat06 voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: holy shit did you get a bouncer?
ben_vulpes: i went to later you and your nick completed
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 03:05 pete_dushenski is glad to see ben_vulpes blogging again
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i did, i taw a puddy tat!
ben_vulpes: nice welcome
pete_dushenski: my lines in channel are set to skyrocket
pete_dushenski: i think the doge took that one
pete_dushenski goes to tweeter
ben_vulpes: tweeeet on
pete_dushenski: who is ted wheeler again ?
pete_dushenski: !#s ted wheeler
ben_vulpes: pdx insider baseball. twitter account in question is a good bit of "ted wheeler is a rich white out of touch dipshit" agitprop.
a111: Logged on 2014-03-11 17:30 mike_c: wheeler & dealer
pete_dushenski: aha. keepin it classy, libtards.
asciilifeform: was pete_dushenski here for the gossipd mega-thread ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: bits and pieces. it's well over my paygrade.
pete_dushenski: WHICH I'M NOT ASHAMED TO ADMIT UNLIKE SUOTS
pete_dushenski: SUTOS*, simon kinahan in particular
asciilifeform: who's that
pete_dushenski: http://trilema.com/2016/superficial-ustardian-onanism-suto/#selection-205.0-207.2 <<
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, phf could a111 read out url titles ? or has mp nixed this function ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: anyways, why do you ask about the mega-thread ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:08:38] <phf> i guess the idea is that you do "$help" and all the bots harass you with pm's of what they can do?
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#935 << word ; http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#937 << then you talk to all. there's no such usg.all as you use defined in this space.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:30:19] <asciilifeform> what if i want ~all~ ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#943 << if you dunno where to send you should go read the logs instead. ha-ha! nothing to allcomers!
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:33:04] <asciilifeform> not if i have nfi where to send'em, shinohai
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:28 mircea_popescu: should have a proper list of commands rather than a few words description of what it does though.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#949 << not just that ; but botmastering threatens to become a rite of passage. i'd much rather go from 1 to 2chars control seq now, when the inconvenience is mostly baseless bitching ; than in 18 months, when i actually run out of single chars and moving is the worst utter nightmare
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:36:00] <trinque> the prefixes were a good idea *because people's fucking bots wont stay up*
shinohai: pete_dushenski: i like it
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski ok this is great.
pete_dushenski: good to hear. por la republica!
trinque: pete_dushenski: wd
mircea_popescu: this is becoming quite well rounded huh.
pete_dushenski: trinque: cheers
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: that it is
phf: pete_dushenski: i'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who'd want to implement url reading, i suspect it's first come first served
pete_dushenski: it came to me not in a dream but just as i was falling asleep. i didn't write the 'bot directory' idea down because... same reason einstein didn't carry notebook
phf: pete_dushenski: don't you have a bot running? maybe a way for you to reclaim that lordship ;)
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#952 << not to mention this is a bickening discussion. we'll have to SORT these in an order ? god help me, i'm not doing that.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:37:23] <trinque> I'm not adding a bunch of retarded state to my bot to be polite to phf's et al
pete_dushenski: phf: hehe i don't have a bot atm. though by xmas i'll be in better shape to take that on.
mircea_popescu: phf first come hm ?
mircea_popescu: oh the urls. hm.
mircea_popescu: i suspect we'll have no url readers ; with the exception that all logreaders may read the line in their own www.
trinque: the spaceman's wife?
mircea_popescu: internet of things!
mircea_popescu: comes alive at night and fucks your wife.
mircea_popescu: also gives her strange feet perspective.
BingoBoingo: http://epmonthly.com/article/hold-oral-contrast/ << Lol, even less medical imaging studies for Hamplanets!
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#969 << i'm behind not even implementing unicode search.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:49:09] <phf> proper unicode search (rather than octet matchin, the way it's doing it now) particularly with case-insensitivity takes like 40% performance hit.. so deferring on it for now
mircea_popescu: i'm certainly against if it means significant performance degradation for proper alphabet searches.
mircea_popescu: !#s dick
mircea_popescu: !#s "dick"
mircea_popescu: !#s "dIcK"
mircea_popescu: !#s dIcK
mircea_popescu: i guess.
phf: later ones are picking up the searches themselves
mircea_popescu: phf i know, i'm just thorn whether quoted should be case sensitive or not. aanyway, minor point.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#993 << i had a very pleasantly mild red hot chilli in a stu last week. cut it in hand, above the pot as it was simmering. thought nothing of it, ate the stu, moved on with life. that night, i took a hot bath, and i drew the conclusion my hand had somehow gone frostbitten indoors.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:04:15] <asciilifeform> !#s chemists wash
mircea_popescu: because it felt EXACTLY like a very severe case.
mircea_popescu: eventually girls figure out it's the chilli. crazy shit.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#1004 << i'd say depends if you put it seed vein in or out.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:06:45] <trinque> where does putting hatch chile on my dick before sex fall in the prank to assault continuum?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 22:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#943 << if you dunno where to send you should go read the logs instead. ha-ha! nothing to allcomers!
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:33:04] <asciilifeform> not if i have nfi where to send'em, shinohai
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540772 << am i the only one who habitually #t's on boxes with no www browser ?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 22:46 mircea_popescu: i suspect we'll have no url readers ; with the exception that all logreaders may read the line in their own www.
asciilifeform: conversation where you have to click 1,001 times to know wtf was being answered, is not my idea of a good time.
mircea_popescu: eh, let people curate their fucking links.
mircea_popescu: or not put them in.
asciilifeform: i was thinking of log links.
mircea_popescu: they are always read by their respective bot
asciilifeform: (rather than assbot-style randomola)
asciilifeform: then ok.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pretty lulzy but some would benefit from a strategic misspelling or two.
mircea_popescu: "how many vacation days does mayor of poortland get"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 21:39 shinohai: !~help.bash
shinohai: i still got a few bugs to iron out, so patience is appreciated.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#1058 << i finally grasp what you meant phf ; have a111 read links to btcbase.org ; scriba will read to log.mkj.lt and so on if further ones appear.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:40:57] <phf> pete_dushenski: i'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who'd want to implement url reading, i suspect it's first come first served
mircea_popescu: which is exactly as it works nao.
pete_dushenski: shinohai: ofc
mircea_popescu actually took the trouble of specifying asciilifeform 's disorganised-six-comment-idea , lemme know if i fucked it up.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: http://qntra.net/2016/09/hillary-clintons-twin-legs-buckle-where-twin-towers-fell/#comment-70104
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: she probably has the kind of pneu-monia typical of those with a, ahem, spare tire
pete_dushenski: (lame french pun - pneu is tire en francais)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: At her age aspiration pneumonia is a concern. As a Clintion chemical induced pneumonia can not be dismissed either. Even a fungal Aspergillis infection is possible due to dope smoking.
pete_dushenski: it's prolly also been a while (decades?) since hillary went for a jog or had a good shagging
BingoBoingo: !!Up covertress
deedbot: covertress voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That's why I'd put a bet on aspiration pneumonia from inhaling food and beverages
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540771 << dollars to doughnuts that was hans rickheit, my favourite living artist.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 22:45 mircea_popescu: http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmopt7Ldoc1qb9p9xo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: known for, e.g., 'the squirrel machine'.
asciilifeform: i bet BingoBoingo would like subj.
BingoBoingo may need to find that book
pete_dushenski: bbl as well
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is sold wherever other children's picture b00kz are sold.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#1127 << actually i think it's some chick by the name ingrid mouth
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [23:43:25] <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540771 << dollars to doughnuts that was hans rickheit, my favourite living artist.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr keccak is length-extension immune iirc.
hanbot: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#220 << moar like retribution for that "elena" monstrosimovie, an exhilarating tale of beige and waiting.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [14:50:25] * Framedragger wonders if it's the trilema-following bot army. will check
hanbot: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#226 << i updated it a week ago. possibly there are other guides floating around that still use $ ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [14:53:41] <mircea_popescu> hm i thought the wiki got updated.
mircea_popescu: a ok.
shinohai: o hey that reminds me eulora guide needs updating too
asciilifeform: sooooo it'd seem like we're pretty close to gossipd schematic
asciilifeform: the kind that includes O(1) noise rejection AND repudiatronics.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, trinque, Framedragger, et al ^
asciilifeform: https://madfileformatscience.garymcgath.com/2016/09/08/libtiff-offline << in unrelated lulz:
asciilifeform: 'The Libtiff library, which has been a reference implementation of TIFF for many years, has disappeared from the Internet. It was located at remotesensing.org, a domain whose owner apparently was willing to host it without having any close connection to the project. The domain fell into someone else’s hands, and the content changed completely, breaking all links to Libtiff material.'
asciilifeform: 'For the moment, there’s no primary source for Libtiff on the Web.'
asciilifeform: poor heathens.
phf checks btcbase for canonical libtiff vpatch
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency libtiff
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: 'libtiff' is not a valid currency code.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does your trb node's memory usage grow unboundedly?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, phf, mod6, trinque, shinohai, BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski etc
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: mine holds rather steady between 1 and 1.1 GB, but different libc and other shit.
ben_vulpes: i've been running this one for 9 days straight (previous box would OOM-kill the process every 2 days or so), and it's currently holding 3846M RES
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: interdasting. and you never restart it?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Restart every few weeks to back up blockchain. Is not trb, but other on Openbsd with trb shit bolted onto sides
ben_vulpes: ah right. a 7.something iirc?
phf: BingoBoingo: are you running the openbsd patch?
BingoBoingo: phf: Nah, just some shit I chopped together drunk.
BingoBoingo: Still works so I work it.
mod6: ben_vulpes: my test node has ~4gb of ram, it usually hangs out around the same, ~3.5G of ram for bitcoin, then after like a month it ooms. then needs to be restarted.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540863 << oddly enough, it does not. hovers around 3-4GB. which is i came to the fragging hypothesis.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 03:11 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does your trb node's memory usage grow unboundedly?
asciilifeform: fwiw neither zoolag nor dulap have ever oom'd.
asciilifeform: *how i came to the
mod6: huh, well, that's good to hear tho.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: any recollection of how quickly it approaches that upper bound?
asciilifeform: week or so.
ben_vulpes: sounds similar to what i'm seeing over here.
asciilifeform: possibly because same proggy, lol
asciilifeform: btw i proved last year that the in-memory block index ~does~ grow unboundedly, but very slowly.
asciilifeform: ( see july 2015 mailinglist )
ben_vulpes: you apparently have more faith in cpp proggy determinism in memory use than i
asciilifeform: well given as ben_vulpes was likely connecting to my boxes, he is seeing a quite similar mempool landscape to mine.
ben_vulpes: i haven't leveled the aws banhammer, so my node's likely collecting all sorts of hilarious crud that yours isn't
BingoBoingo: !~later tell thestringpuller you have been slacking on blogging for a whole month
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.