BingoBoingo: WHitey just has to fuck everything up
thestringpuller: except david bowie white people didn't ruin that
BingoBoingo: Yeah they did. When is his next concert?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:24 a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 17:52 BingoBoingo: NO, targeted assasination attempt on a Lord of TMSR
BingoBoingo: I mean cellphone accidents are how the Israeli's get a lot of their cadavers
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 598.53, vol: 6351.89521455 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 595.935, vol: 7775.18034 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 601.55, vol: 37556.61512024 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 604.505825, vol: 166409.00960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 595.002, vol: 2382.07029961 | Volume-weighted last average: 603.425215709
thestringpuller: what's with the evil government lab tv trope?
BingoBoingo: Anyone else smell blood?
thestringpuller: it's like every bad thing ever happens in an evil government lab
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512561 << guy has a point, seriously now. http://trilema.com/2011/erotoghid-pentru-femeia-adulta/#selection-37.381-37.509
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:29 pete_dushenski: https://vimeo.com/101336844 << dunno why anyone would worry about thai succession. crown prince looks like a pimp. wife topless at dinner, 80's pop beats, good times.
mircea_popescu: also, 2009 wikileaks material, plox link http://wikileaks.info/wiki/Suppressed_video_of_Thai_Crown_Prince_and_Princess_at_decadent_dog_party/ rather than whatever useless bullshit
mircea_popescu: "flash player needed", really ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512565 << they have some bike lanes. for as long as you're fine only going where they go (<1% of town or so, the retard reservation, "palermo") they're great.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:36 pete_dushenski: no surprise to #trilema readers that no economy = no cars = plenty of room for cyclists
mircea_popescu: but economy has nothing to do with it. humongo traffic jams in ba mostly because a) everyone here drives like a confused miami senior citizen. they can't fucking merge.
mircea_popescu: b) poor people spend more on the symbols of "wealth" such as a shitty chinese import than sane people would, as a proportion of their expenditure.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512568 << ridiculous nonsense. market here is about as diverse as in north korea/cuba.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 22:37 pete_dushenski: bitch, what the fuck are used car parts doing in your mercados ?!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512593 <<< http://trilema.com/2014/georg-ritter-von-flondor-and-what-his-unhappy-life-can-teach-us/
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 23:16 deedbot: [Qntra] Gawker Media's Nick Denton Personally Files For Bankruptcy - http://qntra.net/2016/08/gawker-medias-nick-denton-personally-files-for-bankruptcy/
mircea_popescu: work for usg, in any manner, in any capacity ? YOU WILL GET FUCKED.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 23:19 BingoBoingo: archived snapshot of defunct mpex.ws domain for posteriority https://archive.is/Q2GOH
BingoBoingo: I like the title tag on new mpex.ws
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 00:16 asciilifeform: so i have nfi what kind of imbecile would pay the ransom.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo pretty good flower bouquet i thoutht.
BingoBoingo: A++++ Domain flip
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 00:23 BingoBoingo: Turns out fats run /r/fatlogic https://archive.is/ei0LS
mircea_popescu: fatlogic is part of a larger series on "Socialism-brand Idiocy [I Can't Believe It's Not Stupid], and its consumerist aftermarket effects"
mircea_popescu: can't really get fatlogic without reddit, they're both enmeshed in and the necessary results of the same dumb.
mircea_popescu: as per usual the name of the anglotard game is "you may complain about any part of our retardation provided you import the fundamental principles that guarantee it reproduces itself in all its parts"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 00:52 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/einsatzgruppen_jewdetector.png
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 02:27 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512600 << bush girls would get party belligerent at smith point from time to time, main difference was that between bouncers and secret service, there's no way anybody was filming anything and still retained possession of device
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Analysis of Elon Musk’s “Master Plan: Part Deux” - http://www.contravex.com/2016/08/02/analysis-of-elon-musks-master-plan-part-deux/
mircea_popescu: let me not be the only one lulzing at the greaseball shithead. here : https://archive.is/tumCH
thestringpuller: TIL making your own dry ice is as easy as buying a fire extinguisher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFVerpNmEzA
mircea_popescu: it's not too hard, no.
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha reddit gonna steal another sub ?
mircea_popescu waves hello to covertress
covertress waves hello to mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: taken over teh blocktechoworld yet ?
covertress: block by block
covertress: came here today for the fireworks, if any
shinohai: blockhead by blockhead?
covertress: ETH btc thinks ETC liberator funds are on the move
a111: Logged on 2016-07-27 17:51 mircea_popescu: meanwhile the eth "rednecks" are "acting against their own interest". as per usg verbiage now current.
mircea_popescu: an' read the logs in integrum, generally speaking.
shinohai: Good lolz you posted earlier re: Tual mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: old lulz sometimes ages like cheese.
shinohai does not link to log to avoid pissing off his worship danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: lol you're taking it too heartily.
shinohai: I'm just pulling his chain :D
mircea_popescu: chains are damnation tools.
asciilifeform: 'don't do the rape if you can't do the ape!' -- ilkka kokkarinen
mircea_popescu: iirc the army training is more along the lines of "if your mate looks like he's going to become a prisoner, shoot them"
mircea_popescu: somehow this is a lot more democratic than it sounds. because MODERN no doubt.
asciilifeform: lel that's spetsnaz, not american army
mircea_popescu: well naz something or the other at any rate.
mircea_popescu: i recall adlai mentioning teh policy.
asciilifeform: ;;seen adlai
gribble: adlai was last seen in #trilema 2 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 48 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <adlai> ask not what your qntra can read to you; ask what you can write for your qntra
asciilifeform: ;;seen gabriel_laddel
gribble: gabriel_laddel was last seen in #trilema 3 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 1 minute, and 7 seconds ago: <gabriel_laddel> wtf else are you going to do?
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone seen shadowlands ?
asciilifeform: the thing about c.s.lewis ?!
mircea_popescu: hopkins does probably his best role ~as a man~, to jack nicholson levels. debra winger is utterly superb. perfect performance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha that one.
asciilifeform has not seen
asciilifeform: any good ?
mircea_popescu: heartily recommended.
asciilifeform puts on list
asciilifeform: funny thing, lewis started showing up at the open air blackmarkets back in... '91? and we bought, and enjoyed, and then choked mid-way through series on the obvious bait
mircea_popescu: i never cared much for the oxford genre fiction of the 50s.
asciilifeform: it was for kidz!!
mircea_popescu: yes, this includes tolkien. no, i don't see him as much more than an earlier, therefore craftier, woman what's her name.
mircea_popescu: nothing is ever for the kids.
asciilifeform: lel silmarillion also for kidz ?
mircea_popescu: in the sense that if they are old enough to walk they're old enough to fuck and that's the end of the matter.
asciilifeform: didn't we have this thread
asciilifeform: $s tolkien
mircea_popescu: wtf is the woman with the "successful franchise"
mircea_popescu: can't even fucking remember any of this crud it's always the same words in a different souping.
asciilifeform: 10,001 shannonizations of shakespeare don't cancel the original.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-05 03:04 mircea_popescu: ok, point taken, the guy is good.
mircea_popescu: a bunch of tired oxford fags trying to give their miserable subculture breath in the heavens doesn't make it a sort of byzantine "chrstian faith"
mircea_popescu: it just makes them what thgey always were : invidious barbarians lost in a distant, misty island.
asciilifeform: not what tolkien did.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform their characters don't fuck properly. yes, good, as in crafty writer. still has nothing to say besides "god save the queen"
asciilifeform: didja ~read~ any ?
mircea_popescu: which can be said well but isn't worth saying in any case.
mircea_popescu: i read fragments.
asciilifeform: or consulted anal oracle strictly
mircea_popescu: i can't help it, for all my patience i can't read ANYTHING integrally. some things annoy.
asciilifeform: betcha 'lotr' would take less effort to read than mircea_popescu's spam queue for the week.
mircea_popescu: i dun really read the spam queue.
diana_coman: I'm with asciilifeform on this one re Tolkien
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nowai!
asciilifeform: no moar emailz?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman are you with him also on "harry potter" ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as knuth said, there comes a time.
asciilifeform actually cannot comment on 'harry potter', never read any
diana_coman: don't know where he is on that, but harry potter is a shit from what I saw and no way to compare it to tolkien
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the difference, prythee.
mircea_popescu: i for the life of me can't distinguish them, and this is never a good sign.
mircea_popescu also can't normally remember people's names. the people in question flatter themselves with the idea this is a fault of mine.
diana_coman: hm, depending on where you are looking from, nothing can be distinguished from anything else on Earth really
mircea_popescu: yes, it could be i'm an idiot, granted.
mircea_popescu: so distinguish it for my benefit, should be instructive.
asciilifeform: tolkien was an archaeologist and linguist, dug through all of europe's myths, legends, in the original languages, to make his feedstock. and was a talented and quite humble man, never saw ~any income from his fiction - which was superb, if verbose - during life.
asciilifeform: the imitators, who chopped up tolkien and shannonized - are not worth the dust from my balls.
mircea_popescu: yes, but i specifically disclaimed the argument as to craft. yes, the man is a crafty writer, archeologist, etc. put in the work. hard work. intelligently. yes.
mircea_popescu: HE HAS NOTHING TO SAY.
mircea_popescu: he comes from a dead culture. a culture which was never interesting to begin with.
mircea_popescu: he has, literally, nothing to say.
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu knows this how ?
mircea_popescu: he is, if you wish a metaphor, in the position of the old scottish lord with a nice big castle and ample fields, sitting alone without offspring, without the possibility of offspring, disinterested in the world, waiting to die.
mircea_popescu: that's english culture, always was, will stay that way.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same way i know errything ?
mircea_popescu: his characters don't fuck properly. read it side to side with, say, the decameron. ALSO an archeologist and whatnot. but one with things to say.
mircea_popescu: so i say "this man never amounted to anything" and you say "but he is rich" and i say "and it doesn't matter"
asciilifeform: how come mircea_popescu's ethnic allergy to the english dun extend to ol' william s. ?
mircea_popescu: was a brief time in english history they were owned by the french, and it showed.
mircea_popescu: eventually they decided to go with the dutch, and it turns out the dutch weren't anything but hayfire.
mircea_popescu: in any case - this should prove it's not ETHNIC allergy.
diana_coman: asciilifeform was faster than me on tolkien; it sounds to me that mircea_popescu's objection to Tolkien is that he did not tackle the right problem(s)
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512714 << iirc (it's been some years by now!) the exact policy is, "shoot to kill the captors, and don't hesitate just because you may kill your buddy"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 15:30 mircea_popescu: iirc the army training is more along the lines of "if your mate looks like he's going to become a prisoner, shoot them"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman not merely. but that he never tackled any problems.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform (the french point, for ease of following : at the time james was king. the king of scotland. scotland was, throughout, and recognised at the time, a french outpost in the islands. shakespeare's own henry says as much.)
asciilifeform: the 'nothing to say' is most appropriate verdict ~after~ reading b00k...
mircea_popescu: i have read the book. to my standard of reading a book, which does include throw it away on its own merits.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, sounds more like "after reading result of grep -r "fuck" :D
mircea_popescu: otherwise this position is much like "but teach, you can't score me on my program UNTIL IT FINISHES COMPILING!!1"
shinohai: wb adlai
mircea_popescu: adlai does it sound to you more alike "democratic" or more alike "national socialistiche" ?
asciilifeform: granted mircea_popescu may or may not feel inclined to read the b00k, but the 'it suxx because jrrt was english' is a bag of lulz.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not what was said ; also review the compiler point above.
phf: i thought the objection was, not enough fucking
mircea_popescu: one doesn't get out of literary criticism just by writing A LOT of crud people can't be bothered to read through.
asciilifeform: insufficient fuck is a legit point
mircea_popescu: i did not say insufficient
mircea_popescu: i said THEY DON'T FUCK PROPERLY!
asciilifeform: and romeo fucked juliet properly ?
mircea_popescu: this properly is a very wide loop.
BingoBoingo: Coinbase got its kiss of death, ROger VERified the funds https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/760318293651566592
mircea_popescu: someone shjould ask him what ever happened to those 10 btc he broke blockchain.info to trace
mircea_popescu: erryone forgot that lulz ?
BingoBoingo: I remember the 10 BTC at the time which traded for ~$50
mircea_popescu: hey, it was a meal. a man without a meal is liable to do shocking things for the $50.
phf: tolkien is not literature though, it's more like an oxford style set of artifacts (epics, linguistic analysis, chronicles, etc.). the interesting part of tolkien is that he invented a universe and described it through same set of tools he would describe historical past. the sex part is on point, because stodgy british professor, he views his imaginary world through same dodgy prism he views historical past.
BingoBoingo: VERified is an American it is 20 happy meals
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, thing is that what people can or cannot be bothered to read has to do with them, not with what is written really; so it's kind of circular: he writes "crud" because I can't be bothered to read it
mircea_popescu: phf no argument there. he can be the president of the oxford medieval reenaction society and organise medieval faires. i'd go, with the chicks topless, they'd kick me out, all nice and good.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman this is not true, for i am not people. i am a scholar, and when i spit an error the problem's the code not the compiler.
mircea_popescu: you think what gcc can and can't be bothered to read has to do with bugs in gcc ?
diana_coman: thing is: if you give gcc some python code, it won't be bothered to read it
diana_coman: one can say python is crud, sure
mircea_popescu: that's where the simile breaks down, i even read arabic.
diana_coman: I think the language here is not the key
mircea_popescu: you brought it up.
diana_coman: maybe closer procedural vs functional
diana_coman: I followed your simile, what can I do
mircea_popescu: ~obviously~ you could translate, if that were the matter, "oh they brought him tolkien in islandic and he doesn't read that"
mircea_popescu: but that's not the matter.
diana_coman: so basically that's what you are asking for: translate tolkien for me so that I can see what is worth in there for in the current language I can't see it
mircea_popescu: i said, actually, bring out a class, a function, a fucking data type, ANYTHING, that'd show this kid can program.
mircea_popescu: and phf did the mnost that can earnestly be done, above.
asciilifeform: fwiw i enjoyed jrrt moar in translation.
asciilifeform: (as did also, e.g., my brother)
mircea_popescu: granted the attendance is not much trained in this weird arcana, so we'll not dispose the matter on the spot. but still, worth thinking of. a book's a mechanism, like any other, not some sort of magical artefact.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is generally indicative of subject matter without object point.
asciilifeform: substantiate this ?
mircea_popescu: if it's famous it gets "famous" translator, who's a writer ratee, who then fills the corpse with his own crabs. gives appearance of life, movement at least.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it that english doesn't EVEN HAVE the word that describes its literature, ie, a rata, ratare ?
diana_coman: I don't follow where the magical artefact came from; fwiw I fully agree that a book's a mechanism, true; I still can't fully grasp where you say this particular mechanism is broken/not even one ; I'll go through the old threads again, maybe I get it
phf: well, tolkien ~is~ a construction set, but that's its whole point, it's just a very elaborate construction set.
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with this, EXCEPT it comes with instructions, and the instructions include "how to castrate yourself with your new lego set"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman was mostly directed at teh boys, who never read literary criticism in their lyf.
asciilifeform: who never read literary criticism in their lyf << lel, i live with it
mircea_popescu: phf allow me to quote to you from modern tolkien : "The heir apparent, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, is poorly regarded in Thailand and the succession has clouded the brows of not only the Thai political elite, but the Thai people, who believe a period of substantial instability will follow the King's death"
asciilifeform: dafuq ^this has to do with jrrt ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nothing wrong with this, EXCEPT it comes with instructions, and the instructions include "how to castrate yourself with your new lego set" << This does seem like Tolkien/Lewis/Rowling et al. Pretty much made to turn people into apies with "worlds where people are special but fucking doesn't exist"
mircea_popescu: this, because idiots perceived a man with a naked woman on her knees.
mircea_popescu: and it's not in thefucking construction set, o noes!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo read any jrrt ?
asciilifeform: or also can probe contents with magic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is upon you to bring the exception, rather than complain of the form of the universal.
mircea_popescu: believe it or not, there's nothing substantially wrong with the statement "no prime number is even"
mircea_popescu: if you disbelieve this, go, bring the prime number that's even.
BingoBoingo: Seriously fucking midgets with hairy feet are special, because their boring makes then determined?
diana_coman: uhm, what worlds where people are special BingoBoingo ? as far as I know Tolkien's point was quite the opposite of this really
diana_coman: lol BingoBoingo seriously
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: What, wizards don't get to count?
mircea_popescu: no, he has a point.
BingoBoingo: Sauron seems like Tolkien wrote him pretty special.
asciilifeform: all i see here is folks who possibly encountered modern and vaguely-tolkienisticly-flavoured pablum and proceed to piss on the original sight unseen
mircea_popescu: maybe you do or maybe you don't knbow the kitsch victorian xtianity that yielded the special midgets.
mircea_popescu: if you don't, it may seem neutral. it isn't neutral, not anymore than the glass fish on the milieu.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the original is pablum, is hte problem.
diana_coman: what point? that hobbits were special? they are meant to be exactly not-special, that's why I suspect BingoBoingo perceives them as boring in the first place
diana_coman: exactly because they are not special
BingoBoingo: Why did the midgets alternately love/despise gandalf with no middle ground if he wasn't special.
mircea_popescu: no, it's "the divine poetry of little things" bla bla
diana_coman: what divine poetry lolz
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wouldjha stop trolling them this is 101 class go to 205 and bother the twentysomethings!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you know that medieval "for lack of a nail" thing ?
diana_coman: guess not since I don't see the link
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> exactly because they are not special << And then they take a shit on national borders et al. Reading this sort of immersive universe is exactly how awkward teens become bornies/aspies/et al because they can wait for Gandalf to make them different and interesting.
mircea_popescu: http://www.latrecut.ro/2006/04/peste-de-sticla/ << the glass fish on milieu. q to the attendance : is this artwork ?
mircea_popescu: "well, it's a statue" "aj ok."
mircea_popescu: (no, not ah, aj, it's not a misspelling, it just looks like one.)
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, I think that teens who want to wait for someone to make them special will find something to justify it
diana_coman: other than that I don't see any link to either immersive universes or Gandalf or Tolkien or whatever else
diana_coman: now you are basically in the camp of hysterical wives with "violence in video games makes kids murderers"
BingoBoingo: Nah violence in video games makes kids fat sacks of safety
diana_coman: well, as long as it "makes" them, it's the same thing
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I don't get it
BingoBoingo: Well, culture is a form of nourishment
phf: i think it's the "computers for professionals" thread all over again.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman miserable error message.
mircea_popescu: phf that thread is never going away.
BingoBoingo: Cultural obesity is a thing. If one gorges on Disney without exercising their culture in the real world, they become morbidly something.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, absolutely; I can't compute it atm at all, not even enough to spit out something meaningful on it
phf: but the message seems to be, don't eat this it's bad for you. BingoBoingo grew up with fat people who don't know how to cook and only eat at mcdonalds. i grew up with moscows girls who all know how to cook, and for them stopping by a mcdonalds for a milkshake was sort of a thing
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, pure and proper obesity is a thing; if one gorges on butter only without exercising/doing anything/actually cooking with it, they become morbidly something; how is that the fault of butter now though?
BingoBoingo: phf: More, don't eat only this and for the love of god go out into the world occasionally and test it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It is the manifestation of the Obeast's character defects amplified by their access to butter.
diana_coman: still nothing to do with butter
BingoBoingo: But everything to do with their accesss to it!
mircea_popescu: the message isn't don't eat this it's bad for you. wqhether something is good or bad is no direct relation of whether you should like it or not. if you like it, like it, and if you will sin go sin. come back when you've sinned enough.
diana_coman: keep aspies away from tolkien you say? so keep them, whatevs
asciilifeform: i dunno that i've ever run into anyone among the kind of folk BingoBoingo described, who actually ~read~ tolkien.
mircea_popescu: just don't go around thinking / saying that "there's nothing outside of sin"
mircea_popescu: that's just wrong.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, "there's no errect penis in tolkien's book" - is this a correct description of the main fault you find?
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the notion that tolkien is a writer is not unlike the notion that roger alexander of the us civil war reenactment society is A CIVIL WAR HERO.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman not at all.
mircea_popescu: there's no erect penis in romeo & juliet either, see above.
diana_coman: well, fwiw tolkien as far as I know did NOT consider himself a writer
mircea_popescu: and in that he was right.
mircea_popescu: this activity, not just "tolkien" but generally "reading", is very much subverted in the anglotard world. have yo useen this, whole carloads of white, quiet, mousy people "reading a book" on their commute.
mircea_popescu: it blew me away. at first.
mircea_popescu: then i took a look at the "books" in question.
mircea_popescu: it blew me away... the other way.
asciilifeform: when and where did mircea_popescu see this ?
mircea_popescu: england, 2000s. london commute trains.
phf: i don't think even tolkien fans think of tolkien as a writer, that's why him and his brood get own section at a bookstore
asciilifeform: modern-day train is full of folks playing doom XXXXXII or wat, on ipnoje
mircea_popescu: phf much like "solo" gets its own section at the pron store.
mircea_popescu: it's for people who don't like seeing peni, like alf here present :)
asciilifeform: on d.c. metro there will also typically be 2-3 chix per car, reading off epaper gizmo, and if you look it will be a ru 'romance' 9/10 times
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah obv. that was back before the jobs return.
asciilifeform: there is also usually 1-2 kidz with chemistry etc textbooks
asciilifeform: and a bureaucrat or 2, who is taking her 3ring home and probably diddles it even on the pot
asciilifeform: also there is an almost inevitable black dude singing to himself, and/or pumping what must be 50w through his earbuds, can be heard from 3 cars away
asciilifeform: and 2-3 beggars with printed (yes) plaquards, shoved in face of passengers, with 'sob story' about chillunz etc
asciilifeform: ^ more or less complete picture of typical d.c. train ^
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> this activity, not just "tolkien" but generally "reading", is very much subverted in the anglotard world. have yo useen this, whole carloads of white, quiet, mousy people "reading a book" on their commute <- actually I saw this in FRANCE
mircea_popescu: france is part and parcel of anglotard world these days.
mircea_popescu: except if you go to i dunno, farm in normandy or w/e. certainly no paris in paris.
diana_coman: uhm, what is not part? (it was pretty much all the way from Paris to Lyon at least)
mircea_popescu: by now the only places left outside are left outside because too dumb to qualify for anglotardation, such as argentina.
mircea_popescu: not because "know better".
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's not to be surprising. if one day you decide to pump the septic tank into the house, the only things still standing will be still standing because lower density than the shit, and so float, not other reason.
mircea_popescu: what doth surprise me however, diana_coman , is that the allergy i presume in you for the works of "socialist realism" does not somehow extend to... this here OTHER, exactly the same, socialist realism.
mircea_popescu: what ever happened to make tolkien more acceptable than sadoveanu ?
mircea_popescu: exact same swill.
mircea_popescu: i even loved him as a kid, and thought it great fiction. just don't seem to summon the interest these days.
diana_coman: hm, funnily enough I did love Sadoveanu as a kid but got over it somewhere in the teens
diana_coman: Tolkien made his universe as a place to experiment with his language; I can fully see and agree with the point that it is "not real life" - I read him very late and therefore I knew this already, I never for a second considered it as "real life" or reflection of it or whatever; I guess that's where the whole thing comes from
mircea_popescu: aha ? exactly my point.
asciilifeform: 'tolkien as real life' belongs in same asylum as 'doom as real life'
mircea_popescu: it is not literature, but copywriting. reading him can be interesting, like reading an instruction manual for any artefact can be interesting. i do it sometimes for "no reason" even.
diana_coman: but how does that make him crud I don't get
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, tolkien is therefore part of english CIVILISATION. he is an artefact. he is pointedly NOT part of culture.
mircea_popescu: this passes unnoticed in english because no culture anyway.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman you familiar with bouvard & pecuchet, the dicitonary readers ?
mircea_popescu: that's how.
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear the anglos even have a "life plan" that includes anything besides "how to be mme bovary's husband BUT AVOID the whole legbox incident & fallout thereof."
mircea_popescu: "somewhere in the teens". ie, "when i disbecame a child".
diana_coman: maybe; guess I need to revisit bouvard&pecuchet
diana_coman: what is copywriting to you?
mircea_popescu: any writing that's paid by the line.
mircea_popescu: you know... for newspapers.
diana_coman: uhm, he wasn't; didn't even write it for that
mircea_popescu: which is the sad part here.
diana_coman: in these terms you would rank harry potter higher then
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/contact displays a corrupted (??) key that will not import
diana_coman: well, she got paid a lot more for sure
asciilifeform: New: unknown(tag 34)(128 bytes)
asciilifeform: Old: Public Subkey Packet(tag 14)(109 bytes)
asciilifeform: pgpdump: unknown version (55).
diana_coman: if it is copywriting hence the point is to get paid for the length, she did better by a wide margin , no?
mircea_popescu: look, a woman's still a whore if she gets married to some loser and keeps doing it.
mircea_popescu: we're not formalists here, are we.
diana_coman: if it's not "real life" it's not literature, but copywriting; is this it?
mircea_popescu: not quite. consider : "what would you call bullshit science ?" "anything that comes from a grant application".
mircea_popescu: same principle.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't make crackpots somehow inherit the empire of proper science, through the absenteism of everyhone else.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: How about now?
asciilifeform: now yes
asciilifeform: what changed ?
diana_coman: hm; so far we established we agree (and apparently this wasn't in fact disputed although it seemed so) that tolkien's writing is not reflecting "real life" nor intended to really; this makes it crud in your view I gather
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I pasted the key in fresh
BingoBoingo: using canonical deedbot copy
asciilifeform: i am wondering what BingoBoingo did last time
asciilifeform: to result in the rubbish key with apparently ok headers
BingoBoingo: probably pasted from sks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd remove sks from your 'contact me' page if i were you
asciilifeform: it is evil.
asciilifeform: and is standing in line for the chopping block
mircea_popescu: the reason i don't watch "Star wars" or "sex and the city" ; nor bother with "lords of the rings" or "jezebel" is exactly the same reason i don't go around sex stores to sniff used condoms and napkins from the bin in their video booths, like isabelle huppert's character in the piano teacher : i am not quite that hungry.
mircea_popescu: i can understand others can be, and have no beef with it. and i don't necessarily even pity the situation, a test's a test.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the child that insists to stay and dedicates his effort to staying a child, a la http://trilema.com/2010/femeia-nesuferita/ has a serious mental problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so once its head rolls i'll take it off.
BingoBoingo: My opinion of JK Rowling increased over the weekend when I learned that she released the new Harry Potter story as a printed play. A++ Trolling.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in another twenty years they'll catch up with the "book for practical activities of making puippets and imagining scenes", ie 1970s ro standard
mircea_popescu: (it's in the logs)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. In the interim the butthurt is a lot of win.
mircea_popescu: who's butthurt ?!
mircea_popescu: teh readersheep ?
BingoBoingo: The people who deep inside wanted another novel to take them away from IRL for a while.
mircea_popescu: but but whay! it's more cultural this way! like a play!
BingoBoingo: By butthurt readers I especially mean WAPO http://www.slate.com/blogs/nightlight/2016/07/31/harry_potter_and_the_cursed_child_reviewed.html
mircea_popescu: heh k
phf: mircea_popescu: what about stevenson, doyle, dumas, kipling, they also all fall into that category?
diana_coman: I'll add only the message that considered to be "what Tolkien had to say" (even though he did it through "not-real-life universe") namely that all and everyone (yeah, the ordinary and no, they are not made anything by gandalf quite pointedly not made anything by him) is in some way responsible /called to do something when shit hits the fan; that is all I guess
mircea_popescu: doyle and dumas fo sho. kipling maybe, it's somewhat iffier.
mircea_popescu: but nevermind stevenson : dickens.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, those people have loads of things for that purpose; will move onto something else fast enough
phf: hehe, i don't care about dickens :>
mircea_popescu: diana_coman methinks you just explained what you asked of me.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Well butthurt does tend to fade. If it persists longer than two weeks they have to see a doctor
mircea_popescu: phf i couldn't tell you re stevenson. the only scott i ever read was shaw. anmd shaw is not in this.
phf: oh what about poe?
mircea_popescu: re kipling, because this just came up in mp household : girly read his story, you know the one. the spooky one, with the people in the pit.
mircea_popescu: she asked me if i ever read it, and i said oh god that thing was spooky.
mircea_popescu: and then she finished it. and was nonplussed by the end, much like... everyone ever.
mircea_popescu: that'd be kipling. he ... is a promising writer.
shinohai: You mean Under the Doedars?
mircea_popescu: i suspect so.
BingoBoingo: Kippling solid English author
BingoBoingo: "Murder the Jungle before Jungle Murders US!!!!"
mircea_popescu: notably enough, NO PLAYER DARED.
thestringpuller does ritual dance to summon shinohai
phf: so is it purely when i became a man, i put the ways of childhood behind me, or you're saying there's something specific to tolkien that turns his fans into castrati?
BingoBoingo: $s Vice
mircea_popescu: i do not say any such thing. i say he is a competent smith, running as best he can a convenience shop, which for whatever reason is blessed with a wall where every jay and silent bob in the county is attracted to rest, and rap, and what they do.
mircea_popescu: baudelaire, toulouse-lautrec and five others fucked the same one whore. this blessed woman made toulouse-lautrec a writer, baudelaire a painter, and five others nothing ?
mircea_popescu: when i was a child i wore blue, and diana_coman wore pink. thanks god they didn't mix up the colors, lest i'd have grown tits ?
mircea_popescu: or for that matter, woman shouldn't wear pink ? what if she's bonbon blonde ?
mircea_popescu: literally, the only point problems start, is when jay goes into shop and wants to buy an ipad because he thinks this is the only shop and therefore must be that apple concept store he's heard about.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512927 << storify it! bonus points for cocks, esp if they're only implicit.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 16:40 asciilifeform: ^ more or less complete picture of typical d.c. train ^
hanbot: <phf> mircea_popescu: what about stevenson, doyle, dumas, kipling, they also all fall into that category? << and what of verne & carroll?
mircea_popescu: verne absolutely. carroll not one bit.
mircea_popescu: (showing that it's not the air or water of oxford magically doing it, or somesuch. much like it's not the ethnic group per se.)
phf: hanbot: pretty sure can also add jack london, but not mark twain
mircea_popescu: mark twain being the best example as far as trouble goes - by "rights" you should add him, and yet he doesn't belong, at all.
mircea_popescu: what cock ? there isn't even ANY WOMAN.
mircea_popescu: yet the nigger plays enough womanhood to qualify the whole thing. nuts, huh.
hanbot: well there's an interesting cleavage. it's probably a stretch but i might suggest that tolkein's bit with gollum shares the sensual/sexual/at any rate internal-and-external, physical change via subjugation of self that appears in say alice's "eat me" wafers, if that does anything for you mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: that he buries it under 5000 pages doesn't help. much of carroll's... lightiness, to call faggotry thus for now, is excused on the grounds of brevity.
mircea_popescu: how long can an aliteration run before it's tedious ?
mircea_popescu: (and yes, faggotry is not merely sexuality, ie, homosexuality. it is also a certain sort of ineptitude. the man who stutters when addressing a woman is not merely short of the simple "strip" indication ; but actually a faggot by this measure.)
mircea_popescu: hanbot lol
mircea_popescu: one of the shortest trilema articles, and tbh getting tedious about midway.
mircea_popescu: but, a blog differs from "a body of literary work" in this sense, that it's much more extensive. a blog is "all the literature i could write", a middle ground between "i did" and "i could have".
hanbot: sure. and no, i don't think tolkien had much mastery of economy of words (somehow this'd seem to make him less a copywriter? or maybe merely a more monstrous one).
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1513000 << and that is the point there. greatness in smallness, and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512876 and all that jazz. perhaps best explained by monty python : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 16:18 mircea_popescu: diana_coman you know that medieval "for lack of a nail" thing ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 17:20 diana_coman: I'll add only the message that considered to be "what Tolkien had to say" (even though he did it through "not-real-life universe") namely that all and everyone (yeah, the ordinary and no, they are not made anything by gandalf quite pointedly not made anything by him) is in some way responsible /called to do something when shit hits the fan; that is all I guess
mircea_popescu: but that's light, the humour of a well fed mob. you recall the scene of the poor italian child with a bedridden mother and numerous siblings living in a hole, jumping to his death ? much more on point.
mircea_popescu: which is why italian realism IS realism ; whereas ingsoc realism is just another sovietism, ie nonsense.
mircea_popescu: hanbot it's a problem deeper than mere "economy of words".
mircea_popescu: it's the fundamental core of all bad literature, "what if the rules didn't apply". good literature is the work of "what if the rules applied differently", never a case of "let's all pretend britannia rules the seas."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is still punching this ~wholly imaginary bag, instead of the actual jrrt
mircea_popescu: but object rather than meta-object, neh ?
hanbot: yeah, i'm not sure i can specifically place this unapplication of rules, emplacement of britannia ruling the seas in the actual work
mircea_popescu: hanbot why would you place ~it in the actual work~ when it's a response to a meta-discussion you started with " i don't think tolkien had much mastery of economy of words" ?
mircea_popescu: we're talking of tolkien and hgis masteries. that he THINKS it's ok to disregard the brevity rule does not make it go away.
hanbot: aha, hrm.
mircea_popescu: the thing flew "look, this thing almost like in carroll is in tolkien" "yes but here's deluged in crap" "oh, well this guy deluges things in crap" "that he does or that he doesn't has no bearing on crap and deluging."
hanbot: right. well so, apparently i have no argument lol
mircea_popescu: as i said, we're not about to dispose of this matter here and now anywayz.
hanbot: scandalous how much bad literature there is by this tolkien token then!
mircea_popescu: huxley said the same thing. to his misfortune, he chose to die the day they killed kennedy, and so...
mircea_popescu: scandalous how many randos die the same day as you.
mircea_popescu: (c s lewis, also, funnily enough)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/dfaa9d9f-cc4a-465f-b291-8715f65ceed8/?raw=true << draft of phuctor finds qntra, plox to edit and pass to BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu .
hanbot: mircea_popescu wow wtf.
mircea_popescu: this might be the first html document that starts with a </style> tag.
asciilifeform: it was a hasty cut from a larger blob
mircea_popescu: hanbot i was referencing this with the baudelaire and whore story. but then again... absolutely nobody would have guessed as much, i figure, amirite.
asciilifeform: feel free to trim the offal.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was just funnay :D
asciilifeform: and lel, buttfinex finally croaked..?
asciilifeform: 'Today we discovered a security breach that requires us to halt all trading on Bitfinex, as well as halt all digital token deposits to and withdrawals from Bitfinex. We are investigating the breach to determine what happened, but we know that some of our users have had their bitcoins stolen. We are undertaking a review to determine which users have been affected by the breach. While we conduct this initial investigation and secure ou
asciilifeform: r environment, bitfinex.com will be taken down and the maintenance page will be left up. The theft is being reported to — and we are co-operating with — law enforcement.'
mircea_popescu: who could have predicted... o wait... mpoe-pr did ?
asciilifeform: 'As we account for individualized customer losses, we may need to settle open margin positions, associated financing, and/or collateral affected by the breach....'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'the next prime following' prolly ought to be 'the first prime following' -- otherwise we get 'run from me to the next oak tree'
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512654 and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1512596 Stabilitit does not break downward without bleeding scammers
a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 23:16 BingoBoingo: ^related https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=224745.0;all
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 04:46 BingoBoingo: Anyone else smell blood?
BingoBoingo: Fuck, lingering in this channel and its predecessor since 2013 has really attuned my ability to smell death even with my pack a day cigarette habit
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ima write the butfinex thing
mircea_popescu: you'll get mail within teh hour.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty, thing we discussed is nearing publication
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1513051 - it seems to me that you are taking what I said to mean what you meant; called to do something and responsible in some way does not mean everybody is the same/has same effect or some other such nonsense; the peasant in the hut won't save the world no matter what they do, but this doesn't mean they should do nothing/whatever; similarly, the same peasant may not have "done bad" but this
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 18:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1513000 << and that is the point there. greatness in smallness, and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512876 and all that jazz. perhaps best explained by monty python : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
diana_coman: doesn't mean they have no responsibility for the current shit in the world
diana_coman: as to length that indeed I can agree it is a big fault of tolkien - at times he rambles because apparently he's just too much in love with the landscape basically
asciilifeform: i kept waiting for somebody to bring up the luddism
asciilifeform: and the fellatio of the imaginary pre-industrial paradise in england
asciilifeform: but nobody did
diana_coman: I find it actually quite interesting that it's perceived as saying "britain the isolated , small, insignifiant by now island actually matters/is mighty/hero/whatevs" when I read it quite the opposite: as long as they are happy in their own world, they don't matter/contribute nothing/and if they are not interested in the world, the world at some point will be interested in them - and with a big stick at that
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aha, recall, he wrote in the shadow of german bombers.
asciilifeform: (even tried to get into the army but rejected on account of age)
diana_coman: aha, precisely
BingoBoingo: Only one (WOT:nonperson) in cast of latest Qntra, guess who! http://qntra.net/2016/08/coinbase-engineering-director-jokes-that-roger-verified-their-coins-are-safe/
thestringpuller: time for OT
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7a49246f-a701-41cf-88ca-da0a61813f7f/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: what a qntra day!
phf: asciilifeform: luddism point is aligned with what mircea_popescu is saying, so nobody's really interested in shooting own foot :>
mircea_popescu: really, byzantine fiction (currently known as the vulgate) is much better. but i don't think much more of the people who regard the bible as "great writing" than of the tolkien fans.
deedbot: [Qntra] Coinbase Engineering Director Jokes That Roger VERified Their Coins Are Safe - http://qntra.net/2016/08/coinbase-engineering-director-jokes-that-roger-verified-their-coins-are-safe/
asciilifeform: aaaand guess what, after they lowered into pederasty, and then murdered, ian of debian, we get: https://bits.debian.org/2016/08/debian-and-tor-services-available-as-onion-services.html
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 576.67, vol: 8326.09899249 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 577.093, vol: 9504.19206 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 585.834795, vol: 155877.42810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 578.91, vol: 3586.75787395 | Volume-weighted last average: 584.795686196
gribble: Current Blocks: 423360 | Current Difficulty: 2.0189321085305896E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 425375 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 20 hours, 1 minute, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
deedbot: [Qntra] Bitfinex Breaks: Fiat Exchange That Never Had Anything To Do With Bitcoin Finally Goes Away - http://qntra.net/2016/08/bitfinex-breaks-fiat-exchange-that-never-had-anything-to-do-with-bitcoin-finally-goes-away/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is how it works, now it can be theirs, so.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does archive.is shot of bitfines come out blank o.O
asciilifeform: and also why does submitting to archive.is only work via the 'not found, submit' link in search results box...?
asciilifeform: thing is more or less broken
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "they sunk instead of swam" << swimming. or alternatively, "instead of swan" i guess.
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> really, byzantine fiction (currently known as the vulgate) is much better. but i don't think much more of the people who regard the bible as "great writing" than of the tolkien fans. <- fans, lol; out of curiosity: an example as to "much better"?
mircea_popescu: yes fans. every generation has its thing, orwell tells the story of their infatuation with "a shrophsire lad" (which, for maximal lulz, is actually referenced in, say, a room with a view - old hag actually attempts to discuss florence in terms of a sort of shropshire.)
phf: if jrrt was just saying "happy in their own world", there probably wouldn't be a story. he makes a point that shire values are best values all throughout the books. gandalf does all kinds of scheming in order to ensure that it's hobbits specifically that participate in the quests, rather than random guy from the street, and it's the kind of values jerome k jerome was making fun of that somehow make hobbits particularly fit for task
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
mircea_popescu: diana_coman take the story of the whore who wanted to fuck the patriarch. it's a fine story.
mircea_popescu: phf jkj particularly useful reference here ; and yes quite so.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman finer, i will wager, than anything to be found in the 50k lop (lines of pablum) here under consideration.
mircea_popescu: and no, you can't have a story of arbitrary length ; anything longer than a novel becomes a sludge of separate stories whether you want to or not.
diana_coman: phf, fit for some tasks, not for all tasks, no?
mircea_popescu: like what good and worthy task aren't they fit for ?
mircea_popescu: the only reason they're not the best vacuum cleaner door to door salesmen is that selling vacuum cleaners door to door isn't all that great.
BingoBoingo: Well, they need to door to door things that make sense sold that way like gutters.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hm, as far as I recall they are not great fighters at all for one thing
thestringpuller: oh man i love seeing the qntra diversity
mircea_popescu: because in ingsoc socialism fighting is bad.
thestringpuller: any reason for the spike in diverse authors? continuing the trend would be cool.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://qntra.net/2016/08/phuctor-finds-seven-keys-produced-with-null-rng-and-other-curiosities/ << now do diff to your thing for next time.
asciilifeform: neato mircea_popescu
diana_coman: uhm, what, the dwarfs are now bad in there? (I am all open to seeing this in any other way - I did not grow up with it or something of the kind - but I can't say I see this in there at all)
phf: diana_coman: perfectly fit for proper and good life as defined by tolkien, somehow magically fit for all the necessary tasks of the quest. even fighting, like pippin and merry after they are split from fellowship. they are literally only unfit for things that are bad, and even there frodo eventually at the last moment gets corrupted, Let That Be A Warning To You All
shinohai: lol asciilifeform "Peace in our ctime();"
deedbot: [Qntra] Phuctor Finds Seven Keys Produced With Null RNG, And Other Curiosities - http://qntra.net/2016/08/phuctor-finds-seven-keys-produced-with-null-rng-and-other-curiosities/
phf: i think that if you approach jrrt as literature and worse start applying literary analysis to it, then mircea_popescu wins in the first round. if you start looking for life lessons and values in jrrt books it's a lot of really dodgy shit
diana_coman: phf, in that case basically mircea_popescu has a point anyway and there isn't anywhere to go otherwise; I read it to mean what I said above (so no, not the best etc) - maybe I was just so tolerant as to miss the bullshit entirely
diana_coman: what can I say: it wouldn't even be the first time I saw someone as the best version they could be rather than what they actually really were
asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/4vu9qm/pgp_key_of_mahmood_khadeer_president_of_the << for further lulz.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 566.0, vol: 9967.39642678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 573.661, vol: 10655.80966 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 579.476144, vol: 164602.26320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 562.64, vol: 4096.36899115 | Volume-weighted last average: 578.075068468
deedbot: [Qntra] Network Difficulty Experiences Modest Drop Of ~5.4% In Second Change Post Halving - http://qntra.net/2016/08/network-difficulty-experiences-modest-drop-of-5-4-in-second-change-post-halving/
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://www.loper-os.org/pub/gasbag.jpg << lulzy, old bloated cell from pnoje
asciilifeform: ^ pete_dushenski, phf, other connoisseurs ^
asciilifeform: $up boolcrap
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
boolcrap: i can speak
boolcrap: my speech is limited just like in amerikka
asciilifeform: boolcrap: didja bury your pgp key in the garden and planted apple tree on top, or wat
boolcrap: im actually going to recover it today when i install my new motherboard
boolcrap: hopefully this one doesnt croak when i turn VTx on
asciilifeform: i recommend also using pc iron bought from shop, and not dug up from garden
asciilifeform: it works better.
boolcrap: i hope to actually dig up something amazing from the garden
boolcrap: like a box of gold coins burried in 1740
asciilifeform: aha. then buy some proper iron
BingoBoingo: boolcrap: Maybe you dig up 5 pound sweet potato? Such things have happened before.
boolcrap: i dug up a 1lb potato that was my biggest
BingoBoingo: Ah. The five pounder happened on the year of a single sweet potato
BingoBoingo: Thing covered thanksgiving and christmas all by itself
mircea_popescu: and there was a quarter mile traffic jam caused by... senor flocop parking.
mircea_popescu: i kid you not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps penalty ought to be a mandatory excursion to usa, to learn how to parallel-park.
mircea_popescu: he'd just go to miami
BingoBoingo: $up boolcrap
deedbot: boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: $up privkeytones
deedbot: privkeytones voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: privkeytones: who might you be ?
privkeytones: $isup qntra.net
mircea_popescu: deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3e782031-6e65-4e12-b874-7f875ce955b9/
asciilifeform: privkeytones: it loads here
BingoBoingo: deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3e782031-6e65-4e12-b874-7f875ce955b9/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: ^ trinque
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: gross!
privkeytones: I can only reach it intermittently for some reason, seems the DNS address cannot be found..
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: for bonus gross, the entire inside of the metal cup that comprises the body of the pnoje, is razor-sharp, literally you will not notice as it opens all of your fingers at once
ben_vulpes: this is why i left #fabcareer
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i spent 5min prying loose the battery (they glued it) and another 5 wiping off the blood.
privkeytones: asciilifeform log reader
ben_vulpes: hoho you actually sliced yourself, eh?
mircea_popescu: let him bleed for his art.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: interestingly - silent, painlessly, thing is literally a knife
asciilifeform: there ought to be a mod that turns the thing open when you press it just-so and turns into a stealthy weapon.
trinque: BingoBoingo: not the prefered nomenclature!
trinque: $deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3e782031-6e65-4e12-b874-7f875ce955b9/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: a ty
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: semi-relatedly, kiddo sliced his hands open on the radiator fins of an airconditioner i had lying foolishly within reach
trinque checks to see if I stopped the thing when working with mod6
mircea_popescu: not so foolishly then
deedbot: accepted: 1
trinque: a sweet
ben_vulpes: child never noticed. lady, though, did rather quickly, once the bright red started getting on rugs and the baby.
ben_vulpes: and that was the day i won the great Battle of Cyanoacrylate
mircea_popescu: you glued her baby back together ?
mircea_popescu: YOU MONSTER
ben_vulpes: imagine how pointless it is to attempt to band-aid a 9-month old's fingers.
ben_vulpes: TEH MONSTROUS
ben_vulpes: two weeks later, cuts herself open on something else, "hey where's the superglue?"
ben_vulpes: "in my bike bag. don't forget to antibiotic before applying the glue."
mircea_popescu: $up finlol
deedbot: finlol voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1513170 << from what i hear that's more of a curse in the us of a.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 20:57 boolcrap: like a box of gold coins burried in 1740
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
mircea_popescu: there are no tickers
ben_vulpes: what's that?
ben_vulpes: no price signal?
ben_vulpes: nobody could have oh whatever
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/hn.png << 'why japanese toilets did not catch on in usa' in 3, 2, 1....
deedbot: [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) July 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-july-2016-statement/
mircea_popescu: i dun get it ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: original phuctor story on that site was manually replaced with 'japanese toilets' link
asciilifeform: within ~2 hrs iirc.
mircea_popescu: lulzy stuff, but it'll need better documentation lol
a111: Logged on 2016-05-02 04:39 asciilifeform: with 'why japanese toilets did not catch on in america!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elaborate ?
mircea_popescu: i'm confused. did they just do this, ie, now ?
asciilifeform: not YET
asciilifeform: it was done last year.
asciilifeform: when the first keys popped.
mircea_popescu: right. i thought it happened again, woulda been almost trollage.
gribble: Error: "lastblock" is not a valid command.
gribble: [17:56:55] <mircea_popescu> ;;lastblock
mircea_popescu: da fuck was it
gribble: Time since last block: 2 minutes and 50 seconds
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 550.4, vol: 12272.82816775 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 552.644, vol: 12132.81198 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 573.267321, vol: 180679.04120000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 554.598, vol: 4940.77120382 | Volume-weighted last average: 570.300507152
BingoBoingo: $up Reydev
deedbot: Reydev voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: "Ads are being blocked. For us to continue writing great stories, we need to display ads." <<< guess this is why Qntra can't produce great stories.
deedbot: [Qntra] Yet Another Underwhelming Effort To Fork Bitcoin Unveiled - http://qntra.net/2016/08/yet-another-underwhelming-effort-to-fork-bitcoin-unveiled/
asciilifeform: lel boeck replies.
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaand it's gone from front pg.
asciilifeform: pretty fast.
mircea_popescu: ah sweet it puts the deed bundles in here now ?
shinohai: The shitstain has spoken
asciilifeform: i do wonder how a boeck is paid - per word? for 'result' ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai it's a toss-up whether it can't produce great stories because no ads or because being mean.
mircea_popescu: toss-up, geddit ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aspie 14% needn't be paid. wonder instead how he hopes&dreams.
mircea_popescu: and i'd expect he does it by the tolkien.
trinque: mircea_popescu │ ah sweet it puts the deed bundles in here now ? << sho nuff
mircea_popescu: there's a quanta of energy, a token of friendship and a tolkien of usg.aspie h&d.
asciilifeform: next mircea_popescu will blame gulag on mayakovsky, or wat.
mircea_popescu: and if i did, who'd speak for him ?
asciilifeform: maybe phf. i'm not a fan.
mircea_popescu: Adevărat „copil al secolului” Vladimir Maiakovski este poetul care „a săvârșit una dintre cele mai mari revoluții literare cunoscute de istoria literaturii universale.” << sez ro.shittypedia, so must be tru.
mircea_popescu: oh, i forgot in that enumeration : the tsyan, intelligence measure. named for the... militsyan
mircea_popescu: and note that naming the tolkien for tolkien isn't blaming him for the gulag. merely recognising his intricacy in the civilisation-masquerading-as-a-culture that spawned him.
mircea_popescu: you know, like measuring skin tone by the obama. what, he made melanin ?
asciilifeform: and let's say i propose 'the aristotle' as a unit of tautological circularity.
asciilifeform: problem ?
mircea_popescu: tho the aquinas would prolly work better.
mircea_popescu: or even the recently discussed descartes.
mircea_popescu: "an orwell of bedwetting"
asciilifeform: lel. how many litres is that
mircea_popescu: these are imperial measures, not metric.
asciilifeform: hm yes.
mircea_popescu: an orwell of bedwetting is defined as that quantity of bedwetting sufficient to give a wilde of a woman a single white hair.
asciilifeform: how much woman is in a wilde ?
asciilifeform: iirc wilde didn't even fuck chix
mircea_popescu: most women don't, similarly.
mircea_popescu: but he's that measure that doesn't dare speak its name.
phf: i dunno, i think you can blame mayakovsky for gulags
shinohai: Supposed tally of Buttfinex hack: 119,756 BTC
mircea_popescu: hey, if they can name a school/street/urinal a pushkin, what's to keep them from naming a gulag v maiakovski
phf: he was really good at playing working class revolutionary, in the old tradition of "going native", just look at him https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3385/3635935907_817fa1e408.jpg. his whole style is that of мужицкий топор and he used his refined ear to play it very nicely, found it very surprising when the топор just kept chopping on its own
mircea_popescu: wtf is topor mean in russian
mircea_popescu: hatchet in romanian, yeah. except there's also "om din topor" ie "man of the hatchet", which just means a crude fellow.
trinque: shinohai: sauce?
shinohai: Oh wait that's the Director of Community and Product Development for Bitfinex.
shinohai: so decent sauce.
BingoBoingo: related https://www.reddit.com/r/tardtales/comments/4p6tgb/rampagetard_hates_the_police/
BingoBoingo: shinohai: archive and qntra it
phf: mircea_popescu: "рубить", "топор" has a very nice sound to it in russian, which is that of something crude, rough, but also to the point. can string a few of those together with a lot of breaks and pauses to get a feeling of "honest" crudeness or somesuch
shinohai: on it
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 527.31, vol: 14382.99936634 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 523.67, vol: 14666.60693 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 541.720348, vol: 191378.27510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 529.506, vol: 5492.57683242 | Volume-weighted last average: 539.334155823
mircea_popescu: shinohai best remember to mention that these are the bitcoins they claimed to have but at never point throughout the run ever actually held.
mircea_popescu: it's not unlikely hong kong announcing today someone hacked their geography made off with mainland china.
mircea_popescu: not unlike*
shinohai: Well they *were* in p2sh addresses
BingoBoingo: But for how many pee-2 shits?
mircea_popescu: mucho inseguridad.
mircea_popescu: what's that make it for today, 5 ?
BingoBoingo: Forgot the forgettable but obligatory diff change piece
shinohai: ^ probably preparatory run
deedbot: [Qntra] Bitfinex Director Claims 119,756 Bitcoins Lost - http://qntra.net/2016/08/bitfinex-director-claims-119756-bitcoins-lost/
mircea_popescu: "insurance that never existed doesn't cover loss of funds we never had"
BingoBoingo: lulz http://qntra.net/2016/08/phuctor-finds-seven-keys-produced-with-null-rng-and-other-curiosities/#comment-65904
BingoBoingo: Not sure if spam or not
shinohai: More lulz: "There were a number of security practices that were in place to make this the most secure, yet transparent way of securing funds and we used the company that prides itself and specializes in bitcoin storage. How these practices were bypassed, we're still investigating."
shinohai: ;;later tell thestringpuller How 'bout that steem vs. ETC chart
deedbot: [Trilema] Las Esquinas de Vidal (Cursos de Copulacion y Copizdacion a Domicilio) - http://trilema.com/2016/las-esquinas-de-vidal-cursos-de-copulacion-y-copizdacion-a-domicilio/
shinohai: I read that sign as "Spammed Travel" mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: well yes ?
shinohai: Also, I think I'd use doorknob and string before visiting a dentist in that building.
mircea_popescu: he's not getting out of it no fucking matter what posturing scheme he adopts.
phf: выходит маяковский из кабака, окруженный стайкой девиц. девицы начинают его охаживать: — владимир! а это правда, что вы можете сочинить стихотворение прямо с ходу, на месте? — конечно! — говорит подвыпивший поэт революции, — давайте тему! — ну, вот видите
phf: идешь с блядями и иди! маяковский: — пойдемте, девушки, это есенин.
mircea_popescu: "it's one of shaw's!"
phf: more like "never mind, ladies, it's bernard"
gribble: Current Blocks: 423397 | Current Difficulty: 2.0189321085305896E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 425375 | Next Difficulty In: 1978 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 535.16, vol: 22232.29056002 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 540.09, vol: 21716.04224 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 533.661596, vol: 211301.67240000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 533.625, vol: 7909.1321435 | Volume-weighted last average: 534.317560315
mod6: good evening
asciilifeform: 'evening mod6
mod6: Peace in our ctime(); << i lul'd
asciilifeform: aaalso apparently multisig is really a beautiful thing
asciilifeform: and to be encouraged.
asciilifeform: else idiots may get to keep their coinz
mod6: "just imagine that these things don't exist. see, all better now!"
mod6: bad news? no problem.
mod6 puts fingers in ears.
mircea_popescu: this is shaping up to being a pretty great autumn really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, there's wisdom in all things
mircea_popescu: big and small
mircea_popescu: incidentally BingoBoingo : it ~would~ be fair to say that the bitfinex failure as presented by bitfinex amounts exactly to a major failure of the dao as meagrely implemented in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: autumn of purges.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform honestly i don't comprehend why you entertain the tards above and beyond "honey, close your eyes and think of the empire", but each his own i guess.
mircea_popescu: all this "you hurt your credibility" wanl
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares what nobody on a stick's idea of anything is.
asciilifeform: every so often i wrestle with the pig, old habit.
mircea_popescu: i guess what i'm saying is that i admire your patience.
ben_vulpes: so what actually happened with the multisig shits?
asciilifeform: phf: i rewatched it just a few yrs ago!
asciilifeform: lovely thing.
phf: i'm writing subs for girl, because official english translation is awful
asciilifeform: phf: consider posting.
phf: yeah, put that blog of mine to some use
a111: Logged on 2016-08-02 19:24 asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/4vu9qm/pgp_key_of_mahmood_khadeer_president_of_the << for further lulz.
asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/08/furious-sheep.html << orlol suggests vote-by-rng.
mircea_popescu: $up smef
deedbot: smef voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: so i finally got around to watching that thai prince orgy video thing.
mircea_popescu: holy shit these idiots! ITS A TOPLESS WOMAN AT A POOL PARTY!
asciilifeform: i watched a few min, it was a snore, turned off
mircea_popescu: the woman i sat down to watch it with was ALL NUDE! who the fuck cares omfg the tamest stht ever
mircea_popescu: and to add insult to injury they do all sort of complicated ceremonial futzing around some catered looking cake prior to singing HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
mircea_popescu: do these idiots not have a language or what the fuck is their problem already.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that thing is almost a litmus test for anglo penetration
asciilifeform: e.g., it was, last i knew, ~wholly absent from ru sphere
asciilifeform: but ported to, say, spanish, long ago
mircea_popescu: iirc ro upper crust still sings o tannenbaum at teh tree
asciilifeform: it is almost as good a test as what colour winnie pooh is, in a given country
mircea_popescu: colour ?
asciilifeform: (the correct brown? or the jaundiced disney yellow)
mircea_popescu: what is this ?
phf: 40 seconds in, i switched from watching that video to watching an old soviet cartoon..
mircea_popescu: anyway, if my dungeon videos ever leak there's going to be a ~100mn or so new cases of apoplexy that year ?
phf: pretty much definition of "op didn't deliver"
asciilifeform: http://hitgid.com/images/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%85-1.jpg << ru ; https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3c/ec/56/3cec563b4162de9d91d064a027388d9c.jpg << usa
mircea_popescu: $up jodym
deedbot: jodym voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: it's ugh the Alaskan yellow bear
asciilifeform: jaundice, cirrhosis, i say.
asciilifeform: should've laid off the whiskey.
mircea_popescu: which one is this one again ?
mircea_popescu: i can't place it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: illustrations to winnie pooh.
mircea_popescu: shinohai oddly it says 0 views ?
mircea_popescu: ah ok.
shinohai: mircea_popescu: maybe they use the same metrics counter as twitter does.
mircea_popescu: or maybe you're the uploader!!!1
gribble: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "-!-!" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "go-home-gribble-you're-drunk" is not a valid command.
shinohai: Buttstamp: "We would like to reassure all customers that Bitstamp's implementation of multisig is fundamentally different from the one at Bitfinex"
asciilifeform: '1. Take site offline and work on ensuring everything is secure. 2. communicate to users 3. contact chain analytic companies and authorities about the hack and trace the funds, look at ways to recover the funds. 4. Investigate exactly what happened to ensure that we're still not vulnerable. 5. Work on getting the site back up and running.'
asciilifeform: ^ lelz
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'Exploring Encryption and Potential Mechanisms for Authorized Government Access to Plaintext: Proceedings of a Workshop.' Anne Johnson, Emily Grumbling, and Jon Eisenberg, Rapporteurs. THE NATIONAL ACADEMIES PRESS 500 Fifth Street, NW Washington, DC 20001 This activity was supported by the Office of the Director for National Intelligence, under Contract....
asciilifeform: ^ u.s. academy of sciences, whored out, fucked in openings sov academy did not even ~have~ drilled
asciilifeform: ( original at http://cryptome.org/2016/08/nap-encryption-gov-access.pdf if anyone gives half a shit )
asciilifeform: 'We wish to thank the following individuals for their review of these workshop proceedings:
asciilifeform: - Dan Boneh, Stanford University
asciilifeform: ...[bunch of other sad folk snipped]'
asciilifeform: 'The Workshop on Encryption and Mechanisms for Authorized Government Access to Plaintext was convened on June 23-24, 2016, in Washington, D.C., under the auspices of the Computer Science and Telecommunications Board of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. The workshop was sponsored by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). ... The meeting was open to the public.'
asciilifeform: ^ pity i missed this party
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somehow rape's always followed by asking for seconds.
asciilifeform: spoiler: in the massive turd, usg functionaries propose to rebrand ye olde key escrow as 'multisig' and mandate! 'k of n' !
mircea_popescu: i'm sure that'll work!
asciilifeform: ^ in case anyone ever had whatever doubt as to the meaning and purpose of multisigification of whatever sort.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> incidentally BingoBoingo : it ~would~ be fair to say that the bitfinex failure as presented by bitfinex amounts exactly to a major failure of the dao as meagrely implemented in bitcoin. << Indeed, as presented
asciilifeform: 'Given the difficulty of opening a post-iOS 8 phone or a similarly protected device, investigators are now forced to turn to other methods. Kerr pointed to a case in the Third Circuit Court of Appeals of a former police officer allegedly dealing in child pornography who would not divulge his computer passcode; he is currently being detained with no clear end date. Kerr noted that it is quite possible for someone to withhold a passcod
asciilifeform: e purposefully, but it is also possible for someone to genuinely forget it, and this is left to a judge to decide. If “failure to decrypt your device” leads to indefinite jail time, Kerr asked, is that an outcome we are willing to accept?' << mega-l0l
asciilifeform: 'support escrow or risk COKE MACHINE!1111'
asciilifeform: 'ya wouldn't wanna end up in one BY ACCIDENT WOULDJA'
mircea_popescu: how about "if you lack the authority to detain people indefinitely THEREFORE you lack the authority to engage in any behaviour that may lead to it, including trying to prosecute this nonsense"
mircea_popescu: somehow a plain reading is never within the purview of militant idiocy.
asciilifeform: the reading that suggests great inca is not sovereign over earth, fire, air and water, is never the preferred reading, no
asciilifeform: it can only be read to him by other folks, in the only language he understands.
mircea_popescu: alternatively simply is not invited, can go on about his nonsense in his mom's basement while that lasts.
asciilifeform: very british/tolkienian view, this
asciilifeform: 'hitler/sauron can go on doing his thing in his mother's basement, what do we care'
mircea_popescu: any time this "hitler" grows a pair, he can come over and we can have a chat.
asciilifeform: would have to grow a central nervous system first, neh ?
asciilifeform: can chat with amoeba ?
asciilifeform: or with slime mold ?
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you, until and unless kid is actually visible in the world nobody can interact with him,
mircea_popescu: hence the appeal of derpy "proceedings"
asciilifeform: the mold in my old bathroom begged to differ
mircea_popescu: in other news whoa check out alf's reddit account.
mircea_popescu: looks like it's enough to buy russia yo!
asciilifeform: it dates to the days when dinosaurs walked, when reddit was ~readable
BingoBoingo: $b 4
asciilifeform: and every third article was about broken common lisps etc
asciilifeform: ~decade ago.
mircea_popescu: i thought back when it was voat.co reddit mostly did kiddie porn.
asciilifeform: i have pretty much nfi what happened after 2008 or so.
mircea_popescu: no this'd be 2005 or so.
asciilifeform: it opened, iirc, in '05.
asciilifeform: was ~readable until early '07 or so.
mircea_popescu: btw : the muslims actually do the whole chain thing. point in case : "Nabil Received five Ijazas/certificate from several respected scholars in Egypt. He has an Ijaza with an authentic, short chain of 26 from him to our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings Be upon Him)."
mircea_popescu: $up forgotmypw
deedbot: forgotmypw voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: 'Not every wiretap request is granted. Only 313 federal wiretaps were installed in 2014, far fewer than the number requested, Landau pointed out. Each one costs the federal government about $41,000, most of which is spent on “minimization”—that is, someone to monitor the wiretap and assess its content.' << lulzy: the universal dragnet thing dun count, evidently, as 'wiretap'
asciilifeform: it counts as 'stfu terrorist'
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nfi what this is ?
asciilifeform: $up fromphuctor
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The daily hate?
asciilifeform: do their cocks also work this way ?
mircea_popescu: complex thing.
BingoBoingo: Their cocks like their wiretaps require their toilet grabber
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform two points here being that a) the "global dragnet" is much more difficult to use than you imagine ; and much less productive, being more of a prestige item than a tool of any sort ; b) they're discussing a specific item. if i ask you how many stovetops you have in your house you wouldn't count the roof, notwithstanding the sun heating it is, energetically, more significant.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i was speaking of the 'fromphuctor's.
BingoBoingo: Well of what else?
BingoBoingo: It is all disabilitit
forgotmypw: thank you
asciilifeform: 'Despite a great deal of mathematical work in this field, there is still no general theory of cryptography, Blaze posited. He called this “one of the dirty secrets of cryptography.”'
mircea_popescu: hey, same is true of physics.
mircea_popescu: also missing, the great american novel. as well as a dictionary of the french language.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the curious amateur historian may be well served by a review of the 2nd anglo-dutch war. some underlined parts : the anglos were deeply overextended politically - their crummy country consisting of one single town and a bunch of retarded peasants ; while the republic had many more merchants, with lots more money. in practice this meant that the english could pay for one ship where the dutch could afford seven ;
mircea_popescu: but obviously the english ordered ships they couldn't possibly pay for and called this "a cash problem". to be resolved by privateers - except the dutch privateers were both better and more productive.
mircea_popescu: then they induced the bishop of munster, a sort of medieval thug, to invade the republic, under promise of "large subsidies". those subsidies never materialized, being promised by the broke-ass anglos as they were ; brandenburg moved in from the east and the naive turk uh i mean bishop of munster was forced to a rather disfavourable peace for his trouble / idiotic naivity.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile charles keep trying to make peaces with the republic, by offering vague nothings.
mircea_popescu: but they also drew up plans for overthrowing the republic's government, in a very muchly amusing color revolution (the future english king was to come from the house of Orange, you realise!)
mircea_popescu: they were ~accidentally~ supplied to de witt in a pile of other documents. which resulted in some beheadings.
mircea_popescu: altogether a funny thing, especially in the sense that these idiots learned ~nothing in five centuries.
asciilifeform: $up fabio__
deedbot: fabio__ voiced for 30 minutes.
fabio__: number one on the faq has a bit saying replacing RSA with ECC is not a good idea:
fabio__: "Part of their efforts is the push towards Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) to replace RSA, in spite of obvious mathematical weaknesses in this proposition.
fabio__: There has been quite a bit of noise about ECC NIST curves (nistp256, nistp384, nistp521) being tampered with by the NSA. I thought using ECC was all good if you don't use the NIST curves and instead use community approved curves like Curve25519 and Curve1174 by like DJB and friends, or other approved ones at https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/.
fabio__: So what does the nsl faq mean, are the obvious mathematical weaknesses the NIST curves or some other issue with ECC as compared to RSA?
mircea_popescu: what is your idea of a "community" ?
mircea_popescu: ethereum forked by "agreement of the community", does the result satisfy your expectations, for instance ?
asciilifeform: fabio__: the cryptographic side of the question is two-pronged. there is a set of 1) questionable actors making 2) questionable claims (e.g., of equivalence of n-bit ecc with m-bit rsa, n<m) with zero public substantiation
mircea_popescu: the republic doesn't, nor does any lord that i know of, recommend using ecc in any serious capacity. that's the community. otherwise, if you wish to say "i trust djb and whatever he says i'll take" this is fine, but it's a matter of personal investment not "community" nonsense.
fabio__: ok, I didn't realise there was not a consensus.
mircea_popescu: be wary of consensi generally, for it rarely is more than a device in late night tv commercials.
fabio__: people are rolling it out, openssh has supported it since 2014 i think. one of the openssl devs was asking for code to merge
mircea_popescu: openssh is a scandalous piece of trojan work, on the other hand.
BingoBoingo: $up forgotmypw
deedbot: forgotmypw voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> openssh is a scandalous piece of trojan work, on the other hand. << OpenSSL is, OpenSSH is collateral damage
mircea_popescu: they support anything and everything but sound cryptography, proper rng etc.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hey, somehow they didn't miss out implementing utf, they just neglected to check their crypto code. great set of priorities there.
BingoBoingo: BUT THEY LIStenED TO COMMUNITAH!?
mircea_popescu: oh, sorry, was there a consensus ?
BingoBoingo: WHo could tell over the noise, twas a voice vote!
fabio__: so in reference to #1 is DJB questionable?
mircea_popescu: as far as i know the fellow's quite respectable.
BingoBoingo: But until he registers a key and bros out here questionable in his respectability as he lacks a declaration of allegiance.
mircea_popescu: $gettrust fabio__
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
mircea_popescu: no idea that HE would care about that though.
fabio__: and in reference to #2 the point of contention is equivalent strength with RSA for a given bitlength?
asciilifeform: djb is respectable and talented, but labours under certain faustian bargains as part of his employ.
mircea_popescu: fabio__ you don't specifically know whether and which curves may be surprisingly weak. community consensus can't fix this.
mircea_popescu: in general when dealing with snake oil, and cryptography currently is indistinguishable from such, is to take the simplest form.
asciilifeform: one of these bargains is that you cannot build a career as a university academic with 'use rsa, kthx, bye'
mircea_popescu: there's nothing simpler than rsa ; ecc certainly doesn't meet that qual.
asciilifeform: the claim of equivalence is wholly spurious because no difficulty proof of whatever kind exists for either system.
fabio__: so ECC is new and still unproven, wereas RSA is well understood and a safer bet
mircea_popescu: if nothing else, it's simpler.
asciilifeform: or, for that matter, for ANY cryptosystem other than vernam.
fabio__: right, I'm with you.
asciilifeform: ergo, the folks offering said 'equivalence' has same credibility as, e.g., 'herbal viagra' spammers
asciilifeform: i, for one, do not care how many degrees, and from what rotten institutions, such a swindler has.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 17:42 asciilifeform: and point of thread was 'no one has shown with any degree of rigour whatsoever, ~how~ hard'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aaaaaaaaaaand it's 'flagged' (gone) on hn.
asciilifeform: impressive endurance record.
asciilifeform: going strong, however, on tarditt, with buncha shannonized pinoy comments
asciilifeform: different strokes, for different folkz or sumthing
mircea_popescu: gawker has spooked conde nast.
mircea_popescu: the ycombinator derps on the other hand have ~nothing to lose.
asciilifeform: or simply differing approaches. 'problem' posed: 'someone shat in my garden.' hn algo: 'burn with flamethrower, shoot witnesses' reddit algo: 'empty honeywagon on top of it, have whole platoon drop trou and take a shit in turn on it for good measure'
mircea_popescu: sort of the roger ver of the "online business" world.
asciilifeform: i dun get it, what does either of these 'have to lose'
asciilifeform: the 'neverhappened' curtain is airtight
asciilifeform: even the various so-called 'independent' 'security blogger' types won't touch phuctor
asciilifeform: (i wrote to a few)
mircea_popescu: you were here when tiny boo boo exploded into gawker bankruptcy followed by nick denton personal bankruptcy soonish to be followed by actual imprisonment over lying to judges etc ?
asciilifeform: that was actually funded, with actual money
asciilifeform: by a registered lizard
mircea_popescu: the exact same thing COULD happen to bob sauerberg. tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: bob would much rather sleep at home.
asciilifeform: wake me up when paul graham
asciilifeform: i would like to buy ticket, to watch him stuffed into the paddy
mircea_popescu: unlike bob, nobody on a stick and sam altman own nothing, and have nothing to lose. they sleep in ~prison / airbnb as it is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is conflating the sc4mz0rs with their chumps
asciilifeform: pg, altman, et al laughed all the way to the bank
BingoBoingo: So did Denton.
asciilifeform: $up fabio__
deedbot: fabio__ voiced for 30 minutes.
fabio__: hi again
fabio__: so one final question, at what point would you guys consider ECC to be useable? 5 years of field with no reported issues?
asciilifeform: fabio__: not how it works.
fabio__: how does it work?
asciilifeform: well, for starters, i'd like a compelling reason to even ~entertain~ ecc in the first place.
asciilifeform: (its appearance in bitcoin is, contrary to popular delusion, not a reason)
asciilifeform: the burden of proof is one the folks proposing to replace a simple system with few moving parts (rsa) with a larger and gnarlier item
asciilifeform: not vice-versa.
asciilifeform: *on the
fabio__: well, thanks for talking the time to answer my questions
asciilifeform: fabio__: it is helpful to understand that cryptographic breaks are quite unlike ANY other type of engineering failure.
asciilifeform: if a bridge collapses, or reactor melts down, you will know it
asciilifeform: and if not you, personally, the corpse, then - onlookers
asciilifeform: in a crypto break, you, your family, the onlookers, everyone you give half a shit about - can be corpses, for 25 years, and ~not know~
asciilifeform: all of your doings will 'mysteriously' come to nought, folks will say 'bad luck' etc.
asciilifeform: ever play, e.g., sid meier's 'civ 1' ?
asciilifeform: or any of the other strategy gamez where the computer 'cheated'
asciilifeform: (looked at the player's 'cards')
fabio__: yep. a little
asciilifeform: so then.
asciilifeform: or consider, e.g., admiral yamamoto.
asciilifeform: when enemy is perenially 'one step ahead', and 'no one knows why.'