Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-06-12 | 2016-06-14 →
Framedragger: so #botwar has the following chan rules :
mircea_popescu: isn't 2013 a little late for rick rolling ?
mircea_popescu: (okemos high school, 2800 jolly road, meridian charter township, mi 48864)
shinohai: Ah, she wants to be "Black owned". How cute.
mircea_popescu: <<->> some lafond article pointing out that if you see a man with girlfriend(s) he's black, whereas if he's white he's generally a junkie and if accompanied by a female her cuckold.
mircea_popescu: do you know it BingoBoingo ? the one describing a pimp with two fat women ; a guy with a hot chick fucking her in the bathroom ; and other things.
mircea_popescu: anyway : white fellow married a woman older than himself, impregnated her at the merry age of 30, and produced a useless shithead, which opted out just by the time "society" was done pumping half a mil in his sorry loser ass.
mircea_popescu: girl's desire to be black owned is not only perfectly understandable in that context, but rationally mandatory. what the fuck is she to do ?if she's got any life whatsoever left in her coils, what the everloving fuck is she to do, nurse eric ?
mircea_popescu: (obviously, the hallucinated "black as non-white" she imagines has little to do with anything found in nature, but hey, sucks to be a black dude with a human sized penis.)
PeterL: $register PeterL F595258CD9F1FDBDEFAE5093B4E2E0DCACB63D25
deedbot: Import failed for PeterL.
Framedragger: > 26.2 billion
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: interesting
mircea_popescu: reprise of the "turner buys myspace for 1bn" thing.
BingoBoingo: "black owned" LinkedIN
PeterL: how to update to new key with deedbot?
mircea_popescu: the scam being 1. govt prints and hands money off to "pension funds" -> 2. pension funds "invest" in microsoft ; 3. chosen sons form "online business", feed it as per (there's an entire scamola pyramid to create "numbers" for these "properties", scratched the surface of documenting it on trilema but really it's collossal). and then finally, 4. 2 s
mircea_popescu: ends however many billions to 3. victory.
mircea_popescu: PeterL not even sure that's possible - a question for trinque
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, as various "open source" geniuses (ref ) found out on own skin, of the "26bn, $randomfigure" of paper dollars, precious few turkey-dollars actually trickle down to the "owners". black or otherwise.
Framedragger: yeah, "co-founders" are left with shares of shit class and shit amount thereof, it's a nice scam
mircea_popescu: unlike whatever random thug that got killed dealing and started "riots", and who for no reason became "representative" of imaginary "social issues" - the story here, if deliberately blacked out, is nevertheless very representative. that schmuck stands, pars pro toto, for EVERYONE EVER in fiat lands.
Framedragger: (and you may still need to play egregious taxes if in US, even before you get to exercise them etc)
mircea_popescu: but if you want to know how the usg corrupt class siphons the public hreasury - look no further. that's the system, "acquisitions", government-mandated, like facebook buying some derpy app for $random_sum, and so on. "we gave you free money, now you give it back" goes the story.
shinohai: LOL Microsoft buying LinkedIn ... will TOTALLY improve their security.
mircea_popescu: the funny part being, of course, that nobody is pushing to "crack down on corruption" when it actually happens, ie, here. no, "cracking down on corruption" is Reich-speech for what happens in a recently conquered land, to destroy its local elite. that's what's meant when you say random noplace government harping about how they'll crack down on imaginary "corruption".
mircea_popescu: a government recently installed, of course, through a push for "human rights" and "democracy", widely "embraced". ie, first destroy the state, then destroy the society, then it's time to walmart up.
Framedragger: oh yeah already forgot about the password steal. lol. just fuck the entrepreneur world with a rake
mircea_popescu: eh linkedin is the entrepreneur world like livejournal is the poet world.
Framedragger: actually i'm sure there are some legit poets on LJ, heh.
Framedragger: but yeah, i meant entrepreneur not in the etymological/definitional sense, but in the "currently attached bundle of crappy connotations" sense
mircea_popescu: well, they're sorta like the girls watching tv hoping to one day grow up into oprah through the mediation of being rap video sluts. except they're boys, and they read reddit, and hope to one day "make a company that sells for billions".
mircea_popescu: for all the pretense, the difference between these demos is vanishingly small if at all present.
Framedragger: for sure.
Framedragger: daddy's connections help with the arbitrary selection
mircea_popescu: i suppose their respective gatherings are the sum total of such difference : less clothing, more sunshine and more perfume where the girlies gather. more armpit stains and bad shirts and neon lighting where the boys gather.
Framedragger: and stickers on laptops because geek kultura and san francisco amirite
mircea_popescu: nah, the girls have stickers on their phones.
mircea_popescu: which, really, === laptops, for what "laptop" means today.
Framedragger: smart watches (now with 9h of battery life!!1) are laptops t00!!
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: nb == nota bene? ?
Framedragger: s/? ?/? :)/
shinohai: nb = nigger balls
shinohai: Everyone knows that.
mircea_popescu: and fuck do i love this dual format omfg. how did people irc pre blogs ? how do people blog w/o irc ? i guess they use twitter... but shit, it doesn't compare.
mircea_popescu: stuff you don't feel like writing out in 1k words, interactive etc has a place. moreover, that place drives like a third or more of the longer pieces. it's a match made in heaven.
Framedragger: need dat irc2wiki bot
Framedragger: cycle may be complete then
mircea_popescu: btw asciilifeform you gonna make a ticket set for phuctor ?
mircea_popescu: oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ?
thestringpuller: ticket 31
asciilifeform: << thinking about it. speaking of: whatever happened to the sr keys thing ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 13:26 mircea_popescu: btw asciilifeform you gonna make a ticket set for phuctor ?
mircea_popescu: exactly nothing, guy melted in the woodwork.
mircea_popescu: well - it's what it is. there's a dedicated loafer community out there, adamant on "i shall not be useful". best filter them out asap.
asciilifeform: i think he may have ended up kakoized
mircea_popescu: i suppose in its own terms it makes sense, a sort of solipsistic revolt of the anal child. nevertheless... let jesus save them or whatever, we're busy.
Framedragger: sr keys?
Framedragger: $s "sr keys"
asciilifeform: << the 'error: invalid or non-wallet tx !' response to gettx is infuriating idiocy
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 13:27 mircea_popescu: oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ?
Framedragger: ahh " get pgp keys out of the gwen[sic] / sr dump"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yeah ; and anything else interesting.
Framedragger: probably an easy grep; all text uncompressed ~1.6TB; will keep it mind for laters
Framedragger: someone also tried spidering ssh keys from .onion hosts, and then matching them with ssh keys of ipv4 space; i want to re-try that, too
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea actually. guaranteed to de-"anonymise" at least a few
Framedragger: low hanging fruits in opsec failures, volume one
mircea_popescu: it's the correct approach ; what yielded phuctor also.
mircea_popescu: what few know/recall today is that when we started it, the agreement was "it's not going to find anything".
Framedragger: a, haha
mircea_popescu: pointless didactic exercise.
mircea_popescu: this approach is to be continued systematically. much like a principal wanting to root out the crips from school is best advised to start with checking homework.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 698.96, vol: 13232.27232420 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 678.323, vol: 16879.40469 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 700.0, vol: 118811.50957301 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 666.0, vol: 53.84785113 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 717.555564, vol: 79384.54930000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 698.058, vol: 4028.03762871 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 696.373668, vol: 192.66805272 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 704.315170193
mircea_popescu: Framedragger "the lie", you know. which is why hanno boeck ( ) et al went all in for the "nothing happened". derps are by and large conditioned to "think" that nothing happened because nothing happens because nothing can happen because nothing happened because...
mircea_popescu: and so... "nothing happened".
mircea_popescu: which is why this simple strategy is so effectual - magic tricks work by directing the chump's attention SPECIFICALLY because emulating reality is so damned expensive you can only economically do it in small installments. you'd better make damn sure that's where they're looking and ONLY where they're looking. nobody can fucking afford to give a coat of paint over EVERYTHING.
mircea_popescu: so, always go after the places where "nobody'd ever look because nothing could ever be found because nobody'd ever look". total snakecharm.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: good point!
Framedragger: particularize and shine light upon the particular cracks of the delusional reality model
Framedragger should get a blog for ranting
mircea_popescu: can't hurt.
Framedragger: re. hanno: oh yeah? i had thought he had had a point, re. those broken subkeys not being used anyway. but i guess the point is that phuctor found some *actually used* keys, etc.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't give less of a shit about the disparate bits of reality he tried to fashion a disavowal out of.
mircea_popescu: that's how the trick works, "but look at the hat, look at the hat"
mircea_popescu: yes, there's a hat. now, about that table it sits on...
asciilifeform: actually instructive example, it is worth elaborating on:
asciilifeform: hannobockism took the very effective angle of 'nobody used the keyz' but really to keep chumps' attention on what it means to 'use' a key
asciilifeform: and especially the fact that diddled key can trivially end up used without the victim's awareness
PeterL: how do you know nobody used the keys?
mircea_popescu: yeah the numerous instances of "hey listen, your key being diddled IS NOT ABOUT YOU! you'd never fucking know!" managed to get ignored something fierce huh.
asciilifeform: recall, the shitgnomatic unified front against phuctor was exemplified by peter 'this ain't my key and go back to sleep' h anvin.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you wouldn't.
Framedragger: these diddled keys.. they can just be re-uploaded to sks keyservers all the time, no? maybe keyservers should have a phuctor-like policy of rejecting shitty keys?
Framedragger: PeterL: gpg client should reject subkeys not signed by master key or somesuch, was the argument i think
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it comes up occasionally, -- nothing happens
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 17:49 asciilifeform: << hilarious related thread from last year
asciilifeform: the sks folk are dead set in favour of hosting random crapolade.
mircea_popescu: i think it's more a case of "the last person who knew how any of this worked left a decade ago, we're just idea guys"
Framedragger: right. that verification of self-signatures.. it is done by gpg clients tho, no?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger famously unreliable, but yes, it ~is.
mircea_popescu: anyway, lest the wrong impression forms - we don't have a good understanding of who did what to whom and why. it's not even clear we enumerated the classes of deeds that phuctor dredged up.
mircea_popescu: in other "repository of all human knowledge" news, i give you
Framedragger: "Complicating things is the fact that Danica is pregnant. Neither the serpiente nor the avians are crazy about the idea of a mixed-blood child taking the throne. A child of a cobra and another serpent is always a cobra, a child of a hawk and another avian is always a hawk." WELL BUT OBVIOUSLY
mircea_popescu: chick's ~30, has been eking out a miserable existence in suburban mass writing one of the shitty books a year. and working ass off on "social media".
mircea_popescu: living the dream, i guess.
Framedragger: maybe it works for her, heh
mircea_popescu: what else are her options ? too old to be "looking to be black owned".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, writing pulp crapolade beats the SHIT out of showing up to an office.
asciilifeform: any office.
mircea_popescu: at least if she went to an office there'd be the remote possibility of getting some.
mircea_popescu: you ever saw "the pianist" incidentally ?
asciilifeform: the ww2 one ?
mircea_popescu: nah, some recent atrocity. a very insufferable woman lives a "civilised" life with her... mother, and postures a lot at work. her unwind is to sniff used rags in porn coinoperated booths.
mircea_popescu: "the piano teacher", turns out.
mircea_popescu: the film is bad, as a film. but for people entirely unwarare of what curse women are upon themselves in isolation... a decent primer i guess.
mircea_popescu: but to make it short and sweet : if she were the sort of six-deviations talented woman that'd benefit from what you imagine is "not having to show up in an office", she'd pointedly not be writing the sort of crap.
mircea_popescu: she isn't. she just hopes that 2007200820092020102011omgit'sbeenfiveyears!2012201320142015omfgwhere'sitallgone!2016 will be "the year of the hawk-cobra" or whatever the fuck. hey, it worked for that dumb broad, what's her name, that wrote those linkedin novels and sold them for 26 billion copies or what ? they even made a film about it, "whatsap!"
mircea_popescu: maybe in 2017 people finally wake up to the realisation of how perfectly genre fiction at ~150 pages in paperback and of her exact vintage would fill the holes in their souls!
mircea_popescu: (and for the ego - back in 2004 when i published asylum editor was like "isn't this a little short ?". apparently i was merely being pioneeric, the notion of "book" dropped half the pages past two decades, from 300something to 150ish.)
mircea_popescu: (oh and one for the collectors, hey asciilifeform did you actually get chet to sign your copy ? iirc she signed less than half dozen all told.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope - passed up this chance, left it at home. but iirc ben_vulpes had his.
mircea_popescu: ah right.
Framedragger: suspect at least half of "startups" are like that
asciilifeform: << she writes the crapolade ~so as~ not to be confined in an office. just like folks will hide unsheathed knives up their arse, kill guards with bare teeth, whatever, to get out of the camp
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 14:52 mircea_popescu: but to make it short and sweet : if she were the sort of six-deviations talented woman that'd benefit from what you imagine is "not having to show up in an office", she'd pointedly not be writing the sort of crap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform men. you ever heard of women escape any sort of incarceration, that wasn't the owner coming to get the bitches back ?
mircea_popescu: so then.
Framedragger: i don't know, i applaud her even what she writes is shit and even if her mind is shit, good for her, i think it's easy to sublimate jealousy that shit people can still function as "justified anger" or whatnot </armchair-mode>
asciilifeform: dunno though, being an office inmate is such a clear-cut Bad Thing that all living things instinctively try to escape.
Framedragger: *even if
mircea_popescu: Framedragger "cto" best part. nigga, you might be the first CORPORATE OFFICER / mexican illegal combo in history.
asciilifeform: like from forest fire.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah lol
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i applaud her too, which is why her scrawny ineffectual efforts get a link. nevertheless, it can't be said she's effectual. she isn't.
phf: << flagged, but i got a handful leads as far as various work for food and lodgings places last weekend at four quarters
a111: Logged on 2016-06-12 01:50 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell phf Apparently the motor commune still wants for mechanic
mircea_popescu: $up asciilifeform
deedbot: asciilifeform voiced for 30 minutes.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: phf you double as a car mechanic ?
asciilifeform: can somebody explain to me why deedbot auth is slower than microshit win98 booting up ?
mircea_popescu: cuz it's in lisp.
Framedragger: i wanted to say the same, and then run from asciilifeform
asciilifeform: must be in elisp
asciilifeform: or clojure.
mircea_popescu: you can't say lisp without S!
Framedragger: cue clojure compile times..... cue timeout
mircea_popescu: that's why real men code in c-fuss-fuss. F is for fast!
asciilifeform: true snob only writes in snobol.
mircea_popescu: well, snob and pairs of girls that like passing cum.
Framedragger: -[--->+<]>-------.-[--->+<]>.+++++.[---->+<]>+++.-[--->++<]>--.-------.--[--->+<]>---.--------------.-.++++++++++++.+++.-------------.--[--->+<]>-.+[->+++<]>++.+++++++++.+.++++++.++[->+++<]>++.+.----[->+++<]>.------------.[->+++<]>+.+++++++++++.------.[--->+<]>-.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: brainfuck quine ?
Framedragger: not quine, unfortunately
Framedragger: look at dem loops, to set up ascii chars and then only work on offsets
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah yeah I'm moving it to a new box already
trinque: Framedragger: clojure is java wearing a lisp hairshirt
trinque: the box is slow because there's this astonishingly IO intensive shitty key-value store called bitcoin running on it :D
mircea_popescu: lies, moore's law would allow larger blocks.
asciilifeform: trinque: solution is called renice
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'd be surprised.
trinque: asciilifeform: isn't there an ionice or something
trinque: plenty of CPU
mircea_popescu: incidentalyl, someone bored enough should do a survey of nice on extant linux decayed forms. it'd be a pretty good way to diagnose the utter ruin of the ecosystem.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 12:57 PeterL: how to update to new key with deedbot?
asciilifeform: trinque: ionice, aha, since kernel 2.6
trinque: PeterL: I've yet to implement $changekey so sign me a message proving ownership of both keys indicating which you want to use and I'll do it
phf: mircea_popescu: i grew up working on cars with my grandfather, was the main dacha activity, i figured what quality of car mechanic would people advertising food&loding on craigslist really need?
mircea_popescu: ha. adventuresome!
mircea_popescu: of course engines moved from carbureted to injected in the interval, but then again...
phf: i'll just work it out from first principles :D as long as they don't kick me out in horror in the first few hours, i'd be fine
mircea_popescu: careful with the johnson rod though.
phf: that's where being foreigner helps, you call that thing "johnson rod" in russian we call it бачок для тормозной жидкости
mircea_popescu: they have blinker fluid in english too.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the argentines are THE WORST drivers. horribad. you know how latinos in the civilised world have a bad reputation ? well... im sure argentina is the reason for it. they signal ~1/3 of the time, you gotta guess they intend to turn or not - AND they have no conception of blinker fluid or any other way means or conceptual approach for the problem. it's just not fucking there. idjits.)
mircea_popescu: it is so bad traffic here is 90% due to the people being unable to merge. and they're unable to merge because a) they don't signal and b) they're the sort of idiots that don't signal. and yet...
mircea_popescu: nope, need has created to innovation to date. they'll sit and rot and think what they do is driving.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ever drove around anywhere in usa ?
asciilifeform: we have these here.
mircea_popescu: yeah. most likely argentine immigrants.
mircea_popescu: these people should be excommunicated from the planet just for the driving.
mircea_popescu: fucking crazed egyptians in cairo did a better job, and their idea of traffic lights was tooting the horn.
Framedragger: hey i remember cairo; ok so it's worth than cairo; lolol.
Framedragger: > yeah. most likely argentine immigrants.
trinque: houstonians never signal lane changes, and they do them at 100mph and 3 at a time
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yeah. the difference being that while i wouldn't try to drive in cairo without getting a degree in it first, at least THEY manage to move things reasonably. here, i wouldn't drive unless i had an open license to kill and plentiful ammo, AND they have more traffic, fewer driven miles and more roads than anywhere in the world.
trinque: keeps you awake on the highway
mircea_popescu: trinque these people don't signal turning, forget lane change. at least on the highway there's some basis to guess on the basis of impulse and make. but in the city ?
Framedragger: i mean, i guess it's a system for catalysed darwinian selection?..
Framedragger: omg, sounds insane, how do they survive
mircea_popescu: there is literally no way to know whether he goes straight or right until he does it. and they're so horrible they don't drive straight anyway. so...
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ever been in traffic in Naples? quite curious what you'd make of it
mircea_popescu: Framedragger by being slow and stupid.
mircea_popescu: diametric yeah, ok, it's about italian level of idiocy.
Framedragger: amazing
mircea_popescu: as most stupid shit in this country. or, come to think about it, ther world over.
mircea_popescu adds "italians" to the list of excommunicables.
diana_coman: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: to think the nazis allied with them and wanted to burn the fucking gypos.
mircea_popescu: i'd have gone the other way around. burn the italians.
diana_coman: they make excellent pizza in the south...
diana_coman: and excellent cars in the North really - or at any rate they used to make
phf: asciilifeform: another one of them small lisps, already with a bunch of idiosyncratic decisions, but notable for using regions for memory management (and hence immutable).
mircea_popescu: diana_coman they also make excellent women in the south, but...
mircea_popescu: sigh. see, this is the problem with trying to be a mad dictator in a rational way. everyone spokes your wheels!
diana_coman: heh; truth be told men in the south were exactly like fat, ugly spiders: round, small, hairy and basically creeping around the corners at any given time
diana_coman: could do without
mircea_popescu: that's a peculiarly astute view of sicily.
mircea_popescu: diametric you know that excellent mastroianni scene where the fatties eat up palermo ?
mircea_popescu: darn i keep highlighting poor diametric when i want to say diana_coman
diana_coman: hm, I don't think I know it
phf: and here i thought diametric was somehow a particularly astute connoisseur of italian cinema
mircea_popescu: ima fish it out, off to town nao
asciilifeform: phf: so what is this, NEVER deallocates ?
phf: asciilifeform: deallocates when you unroll frames, and i guess there are techniques to figure out how up the frame an object has moved from its allocation point
asciilifeform: who the fuck thought this was good idea, and why.
phf: i heard of technique in a context of Abuse video game, where all the objects that were allocated during calculations for a single screen frame would be abandoned on next frame, which makes sense in this one particular case. i think maybe Seaside had support for that per-request. i guess people came up with formal ways of doing it
asciilifeform: sounds about as 'clever' as my 'shiva' thing nuking its entire guts when you disconnect the term.
phf: i'm not sure how different it is from lifetime analysis (i mean when done automatically), and i can imagine a bunch of ways in which objects will still leak into some kind of global reclamation area
phf: and this one is for BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: 'Police claim the man refused to drop a pocket knife. In the video, the officer appears to kick something away from the man’s body, although no object can be readily seen. In typical police fashion, officers can be seen handcuffing the victims body as he lay in a pool of blood.'
asciilifeform: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 693.87, Best ask: 694.6799999999999, Bid-ask spread: 0.81000, Last trade: 694.6799999999999, 24 hour volume: 145208.19495727, 24 hour low: 635.1, 24 hour high: 719.0, 24 hour vwap: None
a111: Logged on 2016-02-18 16:46 asciilifeform has 2 lamps on his dial: 'oh noez, my coinz are worthless' and 'suxx, i'll never afford any moar'
asciilifeform: phf: the approach illustrated in 'bone lisp' is ~equivalent to an ordinary scheme with strictly limited lifespan of whole session.
asciilifeform: disposable, if you will.
phf: it's the ml crowd, they still manage to dazzle me with their trinkets. and then i think about it for 5 minutes and go "waitaminute"
asciilifeform: 'the devil's gold -- turns to leaves.'
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The Future of Finance is Now, translated. -
Framedragger: ..sooo, ~21.1M ssh hosts with port 22 open in ipv4 space. i expected more, but a time will come for a re-scan, and i finally got around to 'streamlining' the process, and vc's idontcareaboutscans policy helped here, so re-scan will be a piece of cake.
Framedragger: this excludes most hetzner ip ranges because hetzner triggers a fuckload of abuse complaints. but i'll soon scan *only them* (which will anger them, and let the hate fiercely flow into /dev/null), which will a buncha hosts to that 21.1M i expect.
Framedragger: trololololo.
Framedragger: also, a bunch of /8 and /16s are empty. like (used by whom? DoD of course) - these cunts
Framedragger: this info will be crystallized and presented in a clear manner, eventually, of course!
Framedragger: * 20.8M of 22-port-open ssh servers after deduplication
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu if you're fond of watching atlantises sink,
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: "why does openbsd use CVS? CVS sucks!11!"
trinque: this.
phf: asciilifeform: i was just about to work a bit on my de-poettterrring-ed gentoo laptop. did they break everything?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman <<< apparently it was napoli.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr gentoo was never much more than a derpy hipsterism in my book.
diana_coman: ha, quite; didn't know it though, thanks
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 18:21 Framedragger: * 20.8M of 22-port-open ssh servers after deduplication
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i'm pretty much convinced by now that what the ro crowds actually meant in 1989 by "wanting western democracy" was "we want italian tv"
diana_coman: lol, I don't think they actually had any idea what they wanted (or meant for that matter)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was the 1 quasi-working linux distro, other than 'make it all by hand'
asciilifeform: i don't regard idiocies where you are expected to download binaries as 'linux.'
asciilifeform: NEVER did.
asciilifeform: phf: thread circa 2015. but if you have any boxes you haven't touched for >1y, you will have problem.
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 416177 | Current Difficulty: 1.9606142393964996E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 417311 | Next Difficulty In: 1134 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 11 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
trinque: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 705.79, Best ask: 705.91, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 705.79, 24 hour volume: 133673.4340709, 24 hour low: 656.3099999999999, 24 hour high: 719.0, 24 hour vwap: None
trinque: heh, fun
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu moar circus clowns: << there is a pestilential profusion of these 'i'ma STROOOONG CRYYYPTO!!1111 IN NODEJS !111' out there.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: le sigh.
mircea_popescu: btw, the dude that impregnated four "corrections officers" while in jail ? terrence white, at the time boss of "black guerilla family" which apparently is a sort of black crips/mob device
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise ?
mircea_popescu: merely shows it to be no accident.
asciilifeform: or did mircea_popescu previously think that it had been a defrocked accountant imprisoned for 40 unpad parking tickets.
asciilifeform: *unpaid
mircea_popescu: i thought nothing in particular tbh
mircea_popescu: maybe he was really good with the gab. it's been known to happen.
asciilifeform: there was once a 'crime museum' in washington, with, e.g., famous electric chairs, bonnie & clyde's car, etc.
asciilifeform: it had some (i forget who) 'godfather' type's prison cell, re-created
asciilifeform: was spiffier than any office or living room i've ever personally stuck my snout into
asciilifeform: gold-plated brass everything, telephones, the whole orchestra.
asciilifeform: humidor.
mircea_popescu: eh that stuff'll kill ya.
mircea_popescu: << this is actually a surprising cogent summary, esp considering the source. i wonder who he's stolen from.
asciilifeform: 'I give you Count Okuma of the Tokyo Hochi, “…a race of thieves with the hearts of rabbits. America to any warrior race, is not as a foe, but as an immense melon, ripe for the cutting…North America alone will support a billion people; that billion shall be Japanese with their slaves. Not arid Asia, not worn out Europe (which, with its peculiar and quaint relics and customs, should in the interest of history and culture, be in a
asciilifeform: ny case preserved), nor yet tropical Africa, is fit for our people. But North America, that continent so succulently green, fresh, and unsullied—except for the few chattering mongrel Yankees…”' << win.
mircea_popescu: just how fast do you read.
asciilifeform: depends.
mircea_popescu: anyway. vampirism and the interest thereof has traditionally been a gay outlet ; not peculiarly a race outlet. the race outlet (in the us, which is ~the only place that cares) has traditionally been "aliens", which are almost always niggers.
mircea_popescu: which is why they keep "stealing our wiminz", are all "half demon half child", and always run by a brood mother which sprouts indistinct babies without a father.
mircea_popescu: maybe 3 in a hundred hollywood movies about "Science fiction" are anything even vaguely out of the mold of thinly veiled nigger wank.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the observation that pearl harbour was just exactly as much a dog and pony show of "no one could have foreseen" as the 9/11 stuff is important.
asciilifeform: 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: not exactly clear who was kicking japan.
asciilifeform: petroembargo.
asciilifeform: and diddling in china, ~exactly like in modern ua
mircea_popescu: and how ? for one thing, "usg" scarcely mattered at the time. for the other, thebrits denied the russians their ports.
mircea_popescu: i dun see the historical backing for your reading.
mircea_popescu: lest the reader be confused, let it be pointed out that pre ww1, the united states carried about as much credit in europe (aka, the world) as argentina does today. hardly anyone gave a shit about them, and the us president visiting couldn't get a hotel room on credit.
asciilifeform: 'Accordingly, the Roosevelt administration, while curtly dismissing Japanese diplomatic overtures to harmonize relations, imposed a series of increasingly stringent economic sanctions on Japan. In 1939 the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty with Japan. “On July 2, 1940, Roosevelt signed the Export Control Act, authorizing the President to license or prohibit the export of essential defense materials.” Under this
asciilifeform: authority, “[o]n July 31, exports of aviation motor fuels and lubricants and No. 1 heavy melting iron and steel scrap were restricted.” Next, in a move aimed at Japan, Roosevelt slapped an embargo, effective October 16, “on all exports of scrap iron and steel to destinations other than Britain and the nations of the Western Hemisphere.” Finally, on July 26, 1941, Roosevelt “froze Japanese assets in the United States, thus b
asciilifeform: ringing commercial relations between the nations to an effective end. One week later Roosevelt embargoed the export of such grades of oil as still were in commercial flow to Japan.”[2] The British and the Dutch followed suit, embargoing exports to Japan from their colonies in southeast Asia.'
mircea_popescu: in... 41 ?!
asciilifeform: war wasn't declared until dec. 7, 41.
mircea_popescu: for some reason i was discussing more like 1900.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu did say 'pearl harbour' no ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the ww2 hostilities were a mutually ratcheting of various acts, i don't see the argument. if they sold to japan it would have been === selling to germany.
asciilifeform: with which there was no war yet.
asciilifeform: usa was not in the war!1111
mircea_popescu: as in what, declared ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
asciilifeform: and various american industrialists were busy as bees selling to germany.
asciilifeform: everything from scrap iron, to calculating machinez, to fischer-tropsch process.
mircea_popescu: complicated.
mircea_popescu: “The Chinese coolie is the ideal industrial machine, the perfect human ox. He will transform less food into more work, with less administrative friction, than any other creature...Also, they cost nothing but money.” << from what i understand this is getting fixed these days.
mircea_popescu: what is this, people sick of paying for retirement homes fantasizing ?
BingoBoingo: speaking of coolies mod6, asciilifeform et al: anyone ever use a hexbit drill chuck to make holes using an impact driver?
BingoBoingo: coolies of course being the power tools
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sure.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Satisfactory performance? Is drilling with impact driver better than driving with drill?
asciilifeform: in what ?
BingoBoingo: wood, plastic, zamac
asciilifeform: wtf would you impact driver wood or plastic.
BingoBoingo: To secure lag bolts!
mircea_popescu: the thing is ~for concrete, wtf are you doing.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No that is a hammer drill
asciilifeform: why not, in same spirit, dynamite.
mircea_popescu: also don't use common dril bits on metal you'll fuck everything up. get special.
BingoBoingo: $google "impact driver" vs "hammer drill"
mircea_popescu: metal is ductile, unlike all other materials (wood, concrete, etc) which are friable.
deedbot: << Drills vs Hammer Drills vs Impact Drivers - The Wood Whisperer | << Drill vs Impact Driver vs Impact Wrench vs Hammerdrill - YouTube | << Impact Driver vs. Hammer Drills | eBay
BingoBoingo: Anyways chuck on old drill no longer retains bits and fucking retaining screw is stuck with loctite from the factory
mircea_popescu: talk of fucking empires.
asciilifeform: for fucks sake BingoBoingo get a working drill.
BingoBoingo: Anyways hammer drill does forward pushing. Impact driver does torque and more torque.
mircea_popescu: how to kill yourself, volume 44 : save on drills.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I *had* a working drill. Can still have working drill If I want to gamble on sovent to beat this flavor of loctite without also disolving plastic.
BingoBoingo: Or I guess solving plastic is the bigger threat
BingoBoingo wishes someone would make a drill with a nice 2-cyle motor instead of this lithium ion bullshit.
asciilifeform: just shoot the hole, it is moar humane.
BingoBoingo: That seems like a presumptuous suggestion without knowing what the hole is for...
shinohai: Perhaps glory hole?
BingoBoingo: Nah broom sitting hole
mod6: <+BingoBoingo> speaking of coolies mod6, asciilifeform et al: anyone ever use a hexbit drill chuck to make holes using an impact driver? << not sure if I've ever done that specifically. done a lot of impact/air-ratchet wrench work on cars. tons of misc shit with drills.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> oh and mod6 - suppose i want to add the observation that really, the wallet functionality and the "caching transactions" functionality should be separated in bitcoin - there's no conceivable reason to store the latter in the former for instance. how would i go about adding this to the bitcoin tickets ? ask you ? do something myslef ? << you certainly can feel free to help me round out the t
mod6: rb ticket list -- just use add/edit/remove as needed.
mod6: If I were to do it, i might just add a note in ther ethat says "wallet functionality and ``caching transactions'' need to be perm. separated."
mod6: %p trb 30
tb0t: Project: trb, ID: 30, Type: I, Subject: Investigate a new design for the Wallet, Antecedents: , Notes: An investigation must be conducted to create a specification for a reimplemented wallet. The outcome of this will drive ticket 29.
mod6: Probably would just tack it on the notes here. Sound ok?
mod6: and while I'm at it here... I have been considering schemes for doing longer notes. will keep working on that.
mod6: meanwhile, I've created a v-genesis.vpatch
mod6: and while using V, can use it to press out a new V. that part is happy enough. but there is a new feature that needs to be implemented for V: The ability to have separate projects.
mod6: which it kinda does -- but V, in its current form, expects all vpatches and seals to be in
mod6: and since now we have; trb, t, v, ... and many others probably forthcoming, one should need to specify what they want to pull down locally.
mod6: so it would be something like: /v/, /trb/, /t/, /gossipd/ or whatever.
mod6: I haven't started work in that direction yet, just wanted to bring it up.
mod6: What does this mean for us: It means that I need to implement the ability to grab named projects from the mirror. This will require a new version of V (99994), updating documentation et. al.
mod6: Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
mod6: Which would be fine, but seems like I should just wait until after 99994, then one can grab V, and use V to do V things. It's a mind bender. :]
mod6: get a load of this:
mircea_popescu: mod6 sounds ok. i'm just trying to figure out how to best employ your power wrench is all :)
mod6: Cool.
mircea_popescu: good point re... v localization lol
mircea_popescu: ideally : items should live in a dir = the genesis hash.
mircea_popescu: none of this "trb". just make a dir like /7ad78d387187350 or w/e
mod6: ok. i kinda like that.
mircea_popescu: ~that~ is the only correct representation of what's in there anyway
mircea_popescu: and there's symlinks if anyone wants to alias.
mircea_popescu: well, on sane systems there's simlinks at least.
mod6: yeah, i might need to alias as 7ad78d38... might get unwieldy for users.
mod6: but sure, makes some sense.
mircea_popescu: so you cd trb and it takes you to it.
mod6: yeah, i'll have to work out something with that. i think on the server side, the hash value as dir name is a nice touch
mod6: cause that's really what we care about.
mod6: %pc
tb0t: Ticket Type Codes: C => CHANGE | D => DEFECT | F => FEATURE | I => INVESTIGATE | R => REFERENCE | S => SAGA | T => TASK | X => DOCUMENT
mod6: %a v S "Release V 99994" "Publish new version of V [99994]."
mod6: %a v X "Update V Documentation" "Update V documentation for 99994 release."
mod6: %a v T "Update Tests" "Update V cucumber tests for 99994 with specific testing around separate projects."
mod6: %a v T "Update V" "Implement ability for V to pull separate projects from the mirror based on hash (or possible alias)."
mod6: %a v T "Publish V-Genesis" "Publish V-Genesis post 99994 release." 1
mod6: %e v 1 S "Release V 99994" "Publish new version of V [99994]." 2,3
mod6: %e v 2 X "Update V Documentation" "Update V documentation for 99994 release." 4
shinohai: ^ kewl
mod6: %e v 3 T "Update Tests" "Update V cucumber tests for 99994 with specific testing around separate projects." 4
mod6: we'll see if i did that all backwards lol.
mod6: anyway, the good news is; its not chiseled into stone.
mod6: can edit.
mod6: %a t S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t."
mod6: %e t 1 S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t." 1
mod6: derp
mod6: %e t 1 S "Update tb0t with Long Notes" "After the implementation of the Long Notes feature, roll out new version of tb0t." 2
mod6: %a t F "Add Long Notes Feature" "Implement functionality so that users of T can create notes longer than 300 chars if necessary."
mod6: omg we've got projects and verk
mod6: ah cool, my graph did turn out right. lol. "i can use my own thing!"
mod6 ^5's himself
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> you can't say lisp without S! << heheh. "lithp"
mod6: arg. what a long day. can't believe it's already the thirteenth
mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform got a link to where you made the point in the log that most of what sane people do consists of cleaving the practical from the metaphysical or such ?
mircea_popescu: i recall the word cleave being used but teh search is unhelpful
trinque: when you sit down to take a shit, but there's no paper, that's ISIS!
deedbot: [Qntra] Walgreens Finally Cuts Ties With Theranos -
BingoBoingo: ^ for all your daily dose of valuation lols
deedbot: [Trilema] Republican Thesaurus with Vocabulary and Dictionary! -
mircea_popescu: ^ if anyone has suggestions...
phf: BingoBoingo: i think there are cases where impact driver applies, like if your bit gets stuck in metal, and you want to power through it, but like others said, don't drill metal with general bits. i've used impact driver on large wood builds and it's a joy to use, the torgue makes for a very rapid but controlled coupling. i think i might've grabbed one to do drilling in a pinch, but i wouldn't say i noticed much difference one way or
phf: another. it's definitely harder to make a precise hole with an impact driver too.
BingoBoingo: Aha ty phf
phf: basically that rapid torgue will help where you need torgue (like with a stuck bit), but hinder where you need precision, like if the end started running you'll scrape whatever
ben_vulpes: do not impact driver your destructive fasteners.
BingoBoingo: Seriously though who the fuck decided to use loctite to secure a wear item
phf: hehe
ben_vulpes: it is perhaps forgivable if you Swear to God to not back the lag bolt out and ever use the hole for anything ever again, but that is straight up dangerous because you cannot make guarantees about who will do what with your holes out of your sight.
mircea_popescu: that's girl talk.
ben_vulpes: useful when you have a nut on the far side. the hammer helps to overcome static friction on the bolt/nut planes, thereby letting you twist the bolt a little further.
ben_vulpes: kinda like the "don't break and turn" at the same time mantra.
ben_vulpes: vibration drops your axial friction, and to a degree your planar friction.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perhaps, but my pyres held numerous people and were assemblableable by noobs on drugs with a minimum of oversight.
mircea_popescu: assemblableable holy shit.
ben_vulpes: one does not haul a thing to the playa unfurled.
phf: ben_vulpes: you cannot make guarantees about who will do what with your holes? how so? you mean for long term construction?
ben_vulpes: or perhaps some do, i never got to party with the 3lite sillicon valley crowd
ben_vulpes: phf: naw i mean like overtorquing and wallowing out a destructive fastener hole.
phf: pfft put a second bolt next to first one :D
ben_vulpes: the design was 3 bolts through 3 beams at each intersection point
trinque: assemblableable << lost all composure right hnnyah
mircea_popescu: get the girls all drugged up, make them pronounce "assemblableable" evening's entertainment right there!
ben_vulpes: i'm trying to dig up the original source of this design and completely failing
ben_vulpes: i swear i didn't invent this one!
ben_vulpes: but it is rigid as *fuck*
ben_vulpes: each beam has 2 bolts through it
ben_vulpes: at right angles
mircea_popescu: basic mortise and tenon neh ?
ben_vulpes: mnah, mortise and tenon has the beam itself shaped into tongues and grooves to sit into itself
mircea_popescu: and then bolted.
ben_vulpes: pff if you're a girl
mircea_popescu: what else do you bolt, the bare beam for ornamentation ?
phf: well, since it sounds like we're both talking from burn build experience, some people get impact drills and some don't. if i overtorque i just put a second one next to it. it's not pretty, but it ensures that bunch of drugged out hippies can do somersaults on the thing
phf: but ultimately cuts my build time. there's only so many days you can spend building a wood structure in 50 degree direct sun desert hit
phf: *heat
ben_vulpes: factors of safety come in many flavors
ben_vulpes: i learned on the mutant vehicles before doing any pyreworks, so have a built-in preference for reusable steel stuffs
ben_vulpes: not that any bolt is reusable after that kind of fire tho
phf: i've been building with the same master carpenter so we usually start with a pile of wood, pile lag bolts and dodgy plans from various artist friends, so speed and malleability are prime considerations
phf: but yeah i don't imagine any of that stuff is reusable after a burn
ben_vulpes: i think that's why i like working on the mvs
ben_vulpes: that capital is recoupable yo
phf: well, it helps that you're within driving distance from site
ben_vulpes: 35 ish hours?
phf: also we are burning bmorg money anyway :D
ben_vulpes: in big hulking slow gas guzzling rigs
ben_vulpes: THE BESTEST RIGS
ben_vulpes: phf: bless the borg
phf: well, then i've no idea how you work on mvs unless you go to oakland for summer pre event or something
ben_vulpes: one bus is fully collapsible
ben_vulpes: just looks like a decommissioned avis bus with a platform on top during the rainy parts of the year
phf: fits in carry on?
ben_vulpes: no, one drives it down
phf: :p
ben_vulpes: oh it ain't 35 hours at all
ben_vulpes: more like 10
ben_vulpes: but i do like my summer lake stop
phf: i take it with baby vulpes you're not coming this year?
phf: in any case portland to nevada looks like a great drive, i think i'm going to do a purely recreational drive from colorado or wyoming
phf: this year
ben_vulpes: phf: i dun really 'burn' anymore
phf: an upstanding, respectable gentleman :p
ben_vulpes: i just lost patience with other people's bullshit
ben_vulpes: my multiple-week-summer-vacation is now to a house on the sound side of vancouver island where we play music extremely loudly eat all sorts of interesting things and motor about on each others motorthingers
ben_vulpes: is now in year 4 of celebrations
ben_vulpes: hah perhaps five?!
phf: i think that's a pretty common transition
ben_vulpes: unfortunately, because it's in canada (and this is in no way different from the burn) there are no firearms to discharge irresponsibly
phf: i rarely have an inclination to bring rifle to burn like events, and the kind of events that allow rifles are a bit too beer&jesus for my taste. or whatever jesus substitute they do dawkins science.
phf: the cross over of young people who are into burn like events and young people who are into shootin'&dune buggies is particularly obnoxious in u.s.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-19 21:55 ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: try to understand the perspective of inventor. for x,xxx years churchmen prattled on about sex and reproduciton 'cannot cut apart'. and now they can go get stuffed.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 00:48 mircea_popescu: hey asciilifeform got a link to where you made the point in the log that most of what sane people do consists of cleaving the practical from the metaphysical or such ?
asciilifeform: ah nm he found it.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 << nooooooooooo this is catastrophic mistake. rationally pulling down the deps for the thing you want is WHY WE HAVE V.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 23:39 mod6: and since now we have; trb, t, v, ... and many others probably forthcoming, one should need to specify what they want to pull down locally.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 if i want trb i don't need to ask for '/trb/whateverthefuck-fixes-retardation.vpatch', asking for whateverthefuck-fixes-retardation.vpatch must suffice !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the segmentation into 'projects' is unnecessary carryover from old world.
asciilifeform: if i want to use, e.g., shiva genesis, in some other tool, there is no reason to duplicate it
asciilifeform: should be able to simply... use.
asciilifeform: it is THERE, after all.
asciilifeform: << mircea_popescu made a very convincing argument in favour of ~not~ having a central repo of any kind, but rather - if anything - a streamlined mechanism for each lord (including mod6 & ben_vulpes under the banner of trb foundation) to put ~his own trb~ in usable format on ~his own~ www
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 23:43 mod6: Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu do you happen to have the link handy to this thread ? )
mircea_popescu: no ; but it stands to reason. he's not coming in conflict with that is he ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re cleaving thing : found it, credited it to you in latest trilema.
asciilifeform: yeah saw
asciilifeform: << the 'canonical version' thing is what made my ears stand
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 23:43 mod6: Which also means, it almost makes no sense to even publish the v-genesis.vpatch that I currently have as it is no use to anyone if they can't grab a canonical version from the mirror. All they'd be able to do is get it from the mailing list, with the seal, and drop it into their local working directory as one would expect.
asciilifeform: it is the easy solution, but imho mistake.
mircea_popescu: uh. i dun think what you're thinking about is being discussed.
asciilifeform: if we duplicate shithub, it will be a loss.
asciilifeform: re yesterday's lulz:
asciilifeform: 'When asked during the news conference if there was a chance that people might have been struck by friendly fire or in the crossfire, Chief Mina said: “I will say that is all part of the investigation. But I will say when our SWAT officers, about eight or nine officers, opened fire, their backdrop was a concrete wall. And they were being fired upon, so that is all part of the investigation.”'
asciilifeform: ^ who speaks like this...?
mircea_popescu: idiots ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's go into detail here. so, the observation was, that as v is used in multiple projects, it makes no sense all the files be dumped in the same directory. this is sound. what directory shall they be dumped into ?
mircea_popescu: logically, it can only be the name of the genesis block.
asciilifeform: 'Gov. Rick Scott of Florida said on Monday that he had asked Mr. Obama to issue a federal emergency declaration for his state. “Yesterday’s terror attack was an attack on our state and entire nation,” Mr. Scott said in a statement. “This morning, I have asked President Obama to declare an emergency so that the full resources of the federal government can be made available for all those impacted by this horrific massacre.” I
asciilifeform: n a letter to Mr. Obama, Mr. Scott sought two forms of federal aid: “provision of health and safety measures,” as well as “management, control and reduction of immediate threats to public health and safety.” An emergency declaration would give Florida up to $5 million in initial federal funding.'
mircea_popescu: because, as darn.
mircea_popescu: because, for any given genesis block, the possible patches are universally available ; and the only way to obtain variant builds is through pruning the sigs.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as "cannonical", but there is a "total patch universe".
asciilifeform: correct
mircea_popescu: alrighty.
asciilifeform: though it is moar correct to think of one's 'patch light cone'
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 20:09 ascii_butugychag: i will half-seriously suggest that we refer to the ~set of patches, seals, keys~ that a particular vtron is aware of at his particular point in spacetime, as... his lightcone
mircea_popescu: seriously, $5mn is what "an emergency" is worth ?
mircea_popescu: costs more in traffic disruption.
asciilifeform: hey that's lowball figure - a start.
mod6: so i kinda see this in two ways. either i place v/t/whatever into /v/ and we have many multiple roots, inwhich case when you pull from the mirror you end up with the following dirs: bitcoin, t, v, whatever, ... or we can break this up into multiple projects.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean multiple roots ?
phf: something to keep in mind is that vpatch paths already include top level directory, like for example all the bitcoin ones are bitcoin/... so pressing them into an empty directory foo will result in foo/bitcoin/... tree
mod6: and in this case, some of these things are somewhat related, and that might be ok. but in the future, there might be things that are not so closely related. so might be trying to get out in front and make this able to handle multiple projects by seperating them out.
mod6: mircea_popescu: i mean, if i have genesis.vpatch (trb) and v-genesis.vpatch in
mod6: these are multiple roots.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the part where each press should end up collected in the /genesis-hash/ dir is settled, i thought ?
mircea_popescu: phf the problem is there's no good way to extract that alias string. maybe yours is bitcoin and mine is Bit-coin
mod6: one inflates the trb universe into bitcoin, the other into v. i guess it doesn't have to be that way.. v-genesis could be added later on down the line as a leaf node. but then it probably shouldn't be named "genesis" as that seems to break the convention.
mircea_popescu: uh. what ?!
mod6: mircea_popescu: well, i think it's a better, cleaner practice.
mod6: just trying to address alf's messages.
mircea_popescu: yeah but i'm totally lost as to what you're saying. looky : v works by starting with a genesis. correct ?
mod6: yes
mircea_popescu: now, why not put its work product in a directory named for the genesis employed ?
mod6: agreed.
mircea_popescu: that solves everything. and a different project will necessary have a diff genesis, so separated.
mod6: im fine with this too -- alf sees this as a mistake. so just thought I'd take a minute to address the alternative. unless there is something that I haven't considered? asciilifeform? suggestions?
mircea_popescu: i didn't realise he saw this as a mistake either!
asciilifeform: the alternative is to discard the notion of project re vpatches
mod6: let's paint a picture.
mircea_popescu: eh that'll produce windows.
mircea_popescu: i dun wanna build windows.
asciilifeform: i don't see how
mod6: let's say that i have this project called `t'. and I'd like to make it readily availble and a genesis for this specific tool.
mod6: where should this vpatch live?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because "everything together" monolith ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 in /8a5485a/ provided "8a5485a" is the genesis' hash
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see why a genesis with hash H has to be 'meta'-limited to only be antecedentable as 'part of project P'
asciilifeform: vs always and forever, wherever.
asciilifeform: so long as i invoke H as precedent - it is valid.
asciilifeform: regardless of where or why.
asciilifeform: perhaps H is hash of 'hamlet'.
asciilifeform: and i want to quote it twice. whatever.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to rebase.
mircea_popescu: also, you can't have two genesis-es.
asciilifeform: sure as fuck you can
asciilifeform: we ALREADY DO
mircea_popescu: each creates its own universe.
mircea_popescu: i see only one.
asciilifeform: 'each own universe' until i invoke both and suddenly - collapsed into one.
mircea_popescu: there can only be one.
mircea_popescu: you can't "invoke both". you mean de-genesis one ?
asciilifeform: until i create patch with G1 and G2 as antecedents.
mircea_popescu: then you're not making any sense. there can be exactly 1 genesis for any press, build, v etc.
asciilifeform: they are still genesi
asciilifeform: nooope.
mircea_popescu: this is the definition of this term. "the first item".
asciilifeform: a genesis is simply a vpatch with no antecedents.
mircea_popescu: "a genesis" makes no sense ; vpatches with no antecendents are merely that - vpatches with no antecedents. the genesis is the first item.
asciilifeform: there is no such animal in v as it exists today.
asciilifeform: look at, e.g., shiva.
asciilifeform: it has unmistakeably dual genesis.
asciilifeform: trb-genesis, and shiva-genesis.
asciilifeform: neither has antecedents.
asciilifeform: each creates the respective foundational thing out of thin air.
mircea_popescu: where is this item ?
mircea_popescu: yeah ; well iirc that was a broken early experimental attempt by you ?
asciilifeform: it isn't broken in any sense
mircea_popescu: part 2 of 2 behaves correctly in teh tree.
asciilifeform: part 2 DOESN'T TOUCH part 1
asciilifeform: so they are not v-relatives.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the sense that it fails to attack to the tree it is very broken. i have no idea why a v build would even include it.
mircea_popescu: actually : a v build that, upon pressing genesis, includes 1-of-2 is ipso facto broken.
asciilifeform: this is quite true.
mircea_popescu: so then...
asciilifeform: the only way to build shiva is by pressing dual-headed.
mircea_popescu: there is not nor should there be such a rthing as "dual headed".
mircea_popescu: and to my eyes this is an essential point of wtf we're even doing here in the first place.
asciilifeform: actually i'm sold on this
asciilifeform: since the last time we had this thread.
asciilifeform: if anybody wants to roll shiva in as part of his lineage, i recommend linking up part1 and part2 as mircea_popescu describes here.
asciilifeform: (simply add comment in the part1 items as part of part2 patch)
BingoBoingo: ;;goxlag
mod6: so we are agreed then that things outside of the trb light-cone, get its own light-cone - a multiverse of things, yeah?
gribble: Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: mod6: not the concept i had in mind.
asciilifeform: 'light cone' is simply ALL vpatches, by ANYONE, that you know about.
asciilifeform: say it turns out that nsa was using v, and their patch leaks, even this is 'part of my lightcone'
asciilifeform: in that i COULD use it (if i took enough dope)
asciilifeform: this idea only ever could become actually important as time marches on and things are lost.
mod6: don't add nsa's key to your wot, and you wont see that patch right?
asciilifeform: the thing i was trying to invoke there was situation with, e.g., ancient greeks, who cite works that are no longer around.
mod6: so we either have ~one~ universe, or there is >1
asciilifeform: light cone is what you get when you find the intersection of one particular observer's notion of 'i can see WHOLE UNIVERSE!1111' with... reality.
mod6: so what would your implementation look like here? a patch to a current leaf of the trb patches that inflates say t/ from 'false' on the end of the trb 'light-code' ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 each genesis carves it's own "universe", of possible patches. asciilifeform prefers to call this universe "light cone". it could perhaps be argued that the applicable patches as shaped by your trusted keys is more properly your light cone, though might as well call it "trust cone" and be done with it
mod6: this would sit adjacent to the 'bitcoin' directory? (just trying to get a visual in my head here)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'trust cone' is subset of your light cone.
asciilifeform: the latter is the union of all of your ~possible~ trustcones.
mircea_popescu: works for me.
asciilifeform: mod6: i am somewhat perplexed re what you are asking
mod6: don't worry about that. paint me a picture on how you might go about the task - how and where does go? or ?
mod6: or whatever.txt
asciilifeform: well, in my original v, ./ patches p patches/mod6_something_or_other_bleeding_edge_leaf.vpatch
asciilifeform: and we're done.
mod6: ok.
mod6: that's all i was trying to say :]
asciilifeform: note, elementarily it finds its way back to the genesis (or dies trying) and there is never any need to ~specify~ a genesis or the like.
trinque: << is it just me, or does this seem ridiculous
a111: Logged on 2016-01-19 21:55 ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: try to understand the perspective of inventor. for x,xxx years churchmen prattled on about sex and reproduciton 'cannot cut apart'. and now they can go get stuffed.
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate ?
trinque: as if there are zero instincts towards spreading seed in the male side of the act of sex
trinque has had a few beers, so let me be specific
trinque: I have always been aware of this aspect of sex when taking part in it
mod6: so maybe, everyone's call, including yours for a 'v-genesis' vpatch had me thrown that it should be a 'genesis' and not a simple vpatch to what currently already exists out there.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "can not be cut apart" and "sometimes you get a hankering for bareback ; so you make sure the bitch's on the pill"
asciilifeform: ^ this is PRECISELY what i mean by cutting apart.
mircea_popescu: mod6 it'd be a new genesis yeah.
asciilifeform: to make the activity INDISTINGUISHABLE from exactly the wanted thing, minus the undesired sequelae.
asciilifeform: granted if trinque ~specifically~ gets off on watching the offspring sprout, there is little that can be done for him by engineer.
mircea_popescu: the problems only begin when trinque goes on a jwz rampage "i only wanted the offspring to sprout, not rob the store".
mircea_popescu: then people get conned into pretending "education" is an engineering field.
mod6: in way that asciilifeform lays it out, in the sense that this vpatch would start from 'false' and end on 'SOME_HASH' and create a file(s)|directory(ies) that did not previously exist, then yes a 'genesis' but only on concept - not in name. as we shouldn't not confuse the two imho.
mod6: s/on/in/
asciilifeform: mod6: per my v, that and only that is what a 'genesis' is.
asciilifeform: any other usage is nyooz to me.
mircea_popescu: mod6 : if you're building trb, you start from a trb genesis. if you're building V (via V), you start from a V genesis. and so on.
mod6: i think that it makes it confusing if we call it 'v-genesis'
mod6: instead of mod6_v.vpatch or something
asciilifeform: thing is, operator doesn't specifically start from anything. he specifies a press head (if that. in one variant contemplated earlier by mircea_popescu, one does not even specify press head, but instead walk longest chain having sigs S1...Sn)
mircea_popescu: the obvious usage is due to it being <project-name>-genesis. but yeah.
asciilifeform: the press head results in walking backwards in time, to the genesis.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tru. but it ends up SOMEWHERE.
asciilifeform: of which there can be >1 !
asciilifeform: as would be the case in a mircea_popescuated shiva trb.
mircea_popescu: how teh hell would thatr be the case.
asciilifeform: graph will have 2 nodes having no antecedents.
asciilifeform: 1) trb-genesis
asciilifeform: 2) shiva-part1
mircea_popescu: no graph of mine is ever going into this state of sin.
asciilifeform: how the fuck is this 'state of sin
mircea_popescu: because ambiguous genesis.
asciilifeform: it isn't ambiguous !
asciilifeform: operator NEVER explicitly does ANYTHING with genesis !
asciilifeform: srsly read the code, of ANYBODY's vtron
asciilifeform: doesn't have to be mine
mircea_popescu: would it be better if instead of genesis we called it terminator ?
trinque: mircea_popescu │ the problems only begin when trinque goes on a jwz rampage "i only wanted the offspring to sprout, not rob the store". << I agree 100% that offspring are in any sane scenario mine to end
trinque: this does not contradict the fact that the more the world looks like me, the happier I am
trinque: it serves it
asciilifeform: dun matter what we call it, there can and often will be >1.
mircea_popescu: no such wonder.
asciilifeform: elementarily, any patch that sprouts matter out of the aether without affecting anything presently standing.
mircea_popescu: it still has to either a) chain off an existing element or b) not be part of the story.
mircea_popescu: there is no c).
asciilifeform: tinyscheme did not chain off any previously standing thing.
mircea_popescu: then no good. and whatever patches reference it should burn.
asciilifeform: it joins the party wholly formed.
mircea_popescu: not allowed.
asciilifeform: and i seriously fail to see why mircea_popescu is barfing
mircea_popescu: it goes off existing matter or goes hang.
mircea_popescu: same reason someone who wants to participate here starts by reading the log, not by "wholly formed" delusional nonsense.
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu recall why i did the tinyscheme genesis the way i did ?
asciilifeform: it was quite ugly !
asciilifeform: but ~deliberately~ went from ~pedigreed tarball~
mircea_popescu: possibly because trying to subvert the whole thing by having "multiply loadable libraries" or whatever. in any case : you can trivially just make it depend on genesis and be done wit hthe whole story.
asciilifeform: this obscures its pedigree !
deedbot: [Qntra] Amazon Shipped Sulphuric Acid By Air Without Customary Precautions 9 Injured -
asciilifeform: and makes whole thing into a 'trust me plox'
mircea_popescu: there may not exist any sort of pedigree, even as a notion, other than from one of our genesis.
mircea_popescu: and generally - the whole fucking world burns.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it has to burn with proper petrol, farts are not enough.
asciilifeform: using what pedigree there actually is - e.g., mircea_popescu's signed pgp tarball - is part of this.
mircea_popescu: the notion that some sort of "pedigree" from outside v is worth two shits is the only fart here.
phf: yeah, i found that point of tinyscheme somewhat confusing. i understand asciilifeform's intent of "this is how i found tarball", but it seems to contradict wot aspects of v
asciilifeform: but it is not outside. the signed pedigreed tarball is a vtronic creation (in the respective cases, mine and mircea_popescu 's)
mircea_popescu: the pedigree, if it exists, comes from "i asciilifeform read this and i goes off genesis". nowhere else.
asciilifeform: testament that 'yes this is what i had on optic disk for last 10y'
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