Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-29 | 2016-05-31 → ↓
mircea_popescu: lol not bad oglaf.
mircea_popescu: didn't alfred wainwright invent nude fell walking ?
BingoBoingo: likely
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 1053324101 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Niel Ambroz <niel.ambroz@ucw.cz>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F4414C79945FFC7B74189D650F0F50DE2A2091A0B09A532FBF63726E52980316
mircea_popescu: whoa nelly that's a first factor! and of a proper exponent (65537(
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform we've got a whole new bidniss here!
mircea_popescu: 2009-11-03 1kb key, seems to have been in earnest use at some point back then
mircea_popescu: http://alexanderstreet.com/page/about-us << check out the new generation of pederasts trying to milk the "intellectual property" faucet
asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque phuctor feed here misses ~half of events...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473538 << eh nothing new, this kind of atrocity dates to '90s even.
asciilifeform: 'authorized full test!11111 for authorized aryans!'
asciilifeform: *full text
asciilifeform: and where the fuck is a111 ?
asciilifeform: this is a disgrace.
mircea_popescu: lol hai alf.
mircea_popescu: anyway, no, the specific scam in question is that ~lists~ are copyrightable no matter their components, and these cocksuckers are trying to make LISTS of ancient / public domain / copyright freee items and then perversely claim copyright in them because "it's in our list", which is a bullshit claim but then again the us entirely runs on vapors and bullshit claims.
mircea_popescu: somewhat disappointingly, if i grep the phuctored page for "ambroz" i discover the latest discovery is printed mid page. the rss page rescues the very recent - latest few items - but does nothing for the rest.
mircea_popescu: in any case, i recall seeing in here reported the last 3 items there. and 4tyh. and 5th. can't be ~half now can it.
mircea_popescu: 6th an' 7th as well.
mircea_popescu: in other lolz, blondy in train, puts her samsonite up, sits down, next movement of the train the thing falls on her head.
mircea_popescu: "o my god, that looked bad, how's your head ?"
mircea_popescu: "fine, it was empty."
mircea_popescu: "and the bag ?"
deedbot: [Trilema] That books are dead, and had an easy death does not mean the orphan bookworms are spared their slow motion Holocaust. - http://trilema.com/2016/that-books-are-dead-and-had-an-easy-death-does-not-mean-the-orphan-bookworms-are-spared-their-slow-motion-holocaust/
mircea_popescu: ^ in lulzy romanian drama, local "intellectual" wipes his blog within minutes of trilema article.
shinohai: Hey asciilifeform looks like you left Chicago before the party really got started: http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/World/2016/05/30/22637783.html
asciilifeform: small party tho.
shinohai: No better way to observe memorial day than dress only in a flag.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473558 << i just now finished reading this and did not find the books-are-dead thing inside! i am disappoint!111
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 13:51 deedbot: [Trilema] That books are dead, and had an easy death does not mean the orphan bookworms are spared their slow motion Holocaust. - http://trilema.com/2016/that-books-are-dead-and-had-an-easy-death-does-not-mean-the-orphan-bookworms-are-spared-their-slow-motion-holocaust/
mircea_popescu: but it is ? first link.
mircea_popescu: shinohai maybe if the flags had more see through.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suppose we have differing notions of alive?
mircea_popescu: i suppose you just favour peculiar brands of necrophillia
asciilifeform: 'that is not dead we can eternal fuck! and with strange eons even death can cuck'
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not one to normate the pleasures of others. if you're happy with her, who cares she died a while ago.
mircea_popescu: she certainly doesn't.
asciilifeform: thing is, books were 'alive' for small bursts through the ages. consider medieval scholars - theirs were quite as dead as mine.
mircea_popescu: theirs were also properly called vellum rolls, rather than books.
mircea_popescu: much in the way the "alive part" of books is now called blogs.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 10:58 mircea_popescu: somewhat disappointingly, if i grep the phuctored page for "ambroz" i discover the latest discovery is printed mid page. the rss page rescues the very recent - latest few items - but does nothing for the rest.
asciilifeform: it is quite lame yes
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand looks like dulap is back to rebooting by itself.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: was nice while it lasted.
asciilifeform: also mircea_popescu in the original 'books are dead' you have '...tot asa cum n-ati stiut niciodata greaca veche...' but we know you ~do~ greaca veche !
asciilifeform: what gives!
diana_coman: asciilifeform, that is broadly "just as *you* never knew ancient greek, don't come and tell *me* that you still read books" - with the very clear point that the author can and might read books just as they can and might read ancient Greek, but that's not to say anything about the general public who won't read one just as they can't/won't read the other
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ah! ty
asciilifeform: clearly i do not properly apprehend this particular greek yet.
diana_coman: heh, ancient mp-ism already, could be, lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473575 << let's try a gedankenexperiment. take a bunch of folks who grew up on books, and another set who grew up on blogs (let's say, the spiffiest blogs!) -- and see which set can solve a set of differential equations, build a cement mixer, a house that stands up, write gcd, whatever torture test you prefer.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 14:06 mircea_popescu: much in the way the "alive part" of books is now called blogs.
asciilifeform: fact is, EVERYONE on planet3 who is worth so much as ~two shits~, is a child of books.
asciilifeform: even if he won't admit it.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that this will however not be the case in 10 years or less basically
asciilifeform: then welcome to zimbabwe.
diana_coman: it's not that books were dead 15 years ago but that they are dead now
asciilifeform: the folks worth so much as two shits will be 10 years older and deader
asciilifeform: and fewer.
asciilifeform: the biodiesel candidates, more numerous.
asciilifeform: news at 11.
diana_coman: hm, I think the point was that *content* of books worth saving is saved through inclusion/discussion on blogs
asciilifeform: fact is, this is not happening
diana_coman: hence content is still there, kids can still learn just as previous kids learnt
asciilifeform: except that it isn't
asciilifeform: the most that can be said is that most plain text ru material is on the pirate libs.
asciilifeform: but certainly not in 'blogs'.
diana_coman: hm, don't know; fwiw I was (I think it's still there even) arguing against the original article in Romanian along your current lines really
diana_coman: I think I took it also very literally at that time (and myeah, I was *very* fond of books)
diana_coman: well, then it should better be/be brought ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the medium is intrinsically unfriendly on account of every-derp-can-modify.
diana_coman: basically it's a statement of facts: books are dead people, so if you want all the good and pretty to survive, best move it already
diana_coman: hm, every derp can modify *your* blog?
diana_coman: then it's not your blog basically...
asciilifeform: diana_coman: every derp can distribute mutilated copy. the only pill against this is wot, and it remains to be seen whether the pill even works.
diana_coman: uhm, so what, every derp can (and DOES) print his own books of shit
diana_coman: with mutilated copy of anything
asciilifeform: this was at one point expensive.
asciilifeform: and generally not undertaken without a specific reason.
diana_coman: well, it's not really
asciilifeform: and in any case unmutilated copies abounded and could not be remotely fucked with.
diana_coman: plenty of "self-published" grand authors successes etc
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i am most sympathetic to precisely the 'anyone-can-print killed the book' argument.
diana_coman: well, that's already going into the reason why books are dead, so in any case you accept then that yes, books certainly ARE dead and that was the original point of the article as I read it really
diana_coman: dunno, maybe it all even started with the printing press then along those lines
asciilifeform: long ago i wrote an article re the undisputably higher quality of hardware products vs software, on account of the impossibility of patching hardware
asciilifeform: a similar effect applies to the book
asciilifeform: which could not be fixed remotely (legends of 'great soviet encyclopaedia' owners being sent razor blade and list of what to censor notwithstanding)
asciilifeform: hence more effort is put in, prior to printing
asciilifeform: likewise the expense of printing/binding (and in the age of living culture it was quite expensive) was a pretty good bozo filter.
diana_coman: hm, that links to me to some authors' observation that writing digitally destroys the quality of the writing because you can modify more easily what you write, hence they'd rather use a typewriter /write in ink as it "forces" them to think it through before writing it down
diana_coman: to me this sounds more like a personal matter really, not sure I'm buying it as anything more than that
asciilifeform: aha, smaller-scale version of the same idea
asciilifeform: but i find it hard to see how it is not obvious that 'every sewer rat can publish' is a considerable damper on culture
diana_coman: in any case, I suppose you can argue it the other way: the current cheapness of keeping a blog is not necessarily here to stay
diana_coman: plus it's probably not really all that cheap to have your own blog as in truly nobody can bring it down etc
asciilifeform: the sewer rats impose a considerable cost on thinking folk just by being there.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: generally the rats find it much more cost-effective to 'bring it down' by signal jamming
asciilifeform: and, if it comes to it, news blackouts
diana_coman: well, sewer rats is basically what I was calling the "mountain of idiots" and that is a generic problem, unrelated to books or writing as such
diana_coman: in other words: the only solution to *that* is to..not feed /starve the rats
asciilifeform: there is also another cost imposed by sewer rats, that is not solvable by technical means
diana_coman: + tbh I find it all of a sudden terribly annoying that one would have to go back to *necessarily* write on paper (why not parchment? why not stone?) *because* of...rats
asciilifeform: they result in a thickening of the mental carapace of thinking people
diana_coman: I mean: if I choose to write on paper because I like it or whatever I'm in love with paper, fine; but if I do it because of rats than all is lost already
asciilifeform: do you know the stories told by math profs, of how up to 1980s or so they would accept unsolicited manuscripts purporting to prove a theorem, but then had to stop ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473641 << where do you find this implication ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:40 diana_coman: + tbh I find it all of a sudden terribly annoying that one would have to go back to *necessarily* write on paper (why not parchment? why not stone?) *because* of...rats
asciilifeform: writing on paper - or stone - today, will not help.
diana_coman: well yes, not enough filters + too many idiots -> overwhelmed , certainly
asciilifeform: printing is cheap enough that the rats have excellent access to it.
asciilifeform: (see 'amazon press' etc.)
asciilifeform: the true filter for quality technical literature remains ~vintage dead tree~.
asciilifeform: i wish this were not so
asciilifeform: but it is.
diana_coman: but you started from "online is not good" and then got onto " because rats"
diana_coman: so either you imply that one should use something else because of rats or otherwise no, online is perfectly good, just kill the rats
asciilifeform: the rats dampen ~new~ developments.
asciilifeform: and wake me up when anyone discovers a means of killing them.
diana_coman: they dampen anything where they thrive, that's why they are rats, no?
diana_coman: heh, there was this discussion which might perhaps be interesting to you re freedom on trilema vs censorship of comments on public forums etc
asciilifeform: to clarify, i am not 'in love with paper' so much as with 'paper whose untampered age i can smell with my nose'
asciilifeform: it is a means of authentication almost as good as pgp.
diana_coman: the gist of it being that rats basically do not *want* to comment on trilema for too long because they find it...very uncomfortable; so yes, they have full liberty to come and shit there and be slapped with a hammer in return, sure
asciilifeform: they impose a different kind of cost on trilema.
diana_coman: uhm, I found tons of shit on old pages too, maybe I just read too much through my grand parents' old books or something
asciilifeform: which is that mircea_popescu has thick walls in his head covered in barbed wire, and newcomers are necessarily massaged by said barbed wire.
asciilifeform: and i have similar barbed wire in my head.
diana_coman: like any sane person I suppose
asciilifeform: and if it were the year 1850 and a letter that comes in can be presumed to be from a learned gentlemen simply by virtue of being a letter,
asciilifeform: no barbed wire is necessary.
asciilifeform: *gentleman
asciilifeform: fact is, 'intellectual rats' play similar role to 'neutron poison' in fission reactor.
asciilifeform: their mere ~possibility~ inhibits.
diana_coman: well, a pgp message at this point quite serves as that letter I guess
asciilifeform: which is why imho any future of the net as an intellectual citadel depends on tech for keeping rats out.
asciilifeform: e.g., gossipd.
asciilifeform: but this is not enough, you actually need the old books.
asciilifeform: without them - zimbabwe.
asciilifeform: immediately.
diana_coman: I think rats will also find it increasingly hard economically to do much on the net
asciilifeform: on the contrary, it is ~people~ who are finding it economically hard to do much on the net.
asciilifeform: for instance, even mircea_popescu does not seem to be able to find me a phuctor box that will stay up
asciilifeform: and not get molested orifices by usg
diana_coman: my experience so far though has been time and time again that rats simply do not enjoy/survive areas /groups /vicinity of too many people who are clean basically
asciilifeform: they die as individuals, but are immortal in the aggregate.
asciilifeform: as described in mircea_popescu's 'infinite hitpoints' piece.
diana_coman: certainly, my point was not that cleanliness is a way of exterminating rats but rather that cleanliness is a very good indicator of whether you find rats there or not, hence whether worth bothering with some output from there or not
asciilifeform: actually these rats find nothing more appealing than a yet-un-ratted place of clean people.
asciilifeform: hence why we get periodic 'ninjashogun' visitors.
diana_coman: yes, question is: are they able to take over or do they get their tails burnt
diana_coman: well, rats do what rats do, what else
asciilifeform: the fundamental mistake is to assume that it costs us nothing to burn their tails.
diana_coman: no such assumption, no
diana_coman: life costs quite a lot in itself and the more elaborate you make it basically, the higher the cost, of course
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36412487 << buterin's waterfall to extinguish rising exchange rate just in time !
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al ^
asciilifeform: 'A collection of bitcoins worth about £8m, which had been confiscated by police in Australia, will be auctioned off in June. The 24,518 bitcoins will be sold mostly in blocks of 2,000 - each with a value of about £680,000.'
asciilifeform: 'Ernst & Young, the firm organising the auction, said the bitcoins had been "confiscated as proceeds of crime" but did not elaborate on the case.'
diana_coman: asciilifeform> but this is not enough, you actually need the old books. <- this was not contested really; the fact that books are dead doesn't mean that old books are all useless all of a sudden
asciilifeform: diana_coman: mircea_popescu and i had this wild thread where he actually pissed on the old books directly
diana_coman: I meant the *content* of the old books does not become useless all of a sudden; reading it and/or extracting it and transferring it (or not) to the new medium becomes a different occupation, much akin to reading ancient Greek basically;
asciilifeform: relatedly, and hilariously, in sov era, the phrase 'classical education' meant, to educated folks, the imperial ru gymnasium, per old euro spec, with latin and greek. and ~all of the great ru writers, INCLUDING sov era, had this education, were old enough. whereas TODAY 'classical education' in ru refers to sov era school !
asciilifeform: i.e. what my brother went to.
asciilifeform: cultured people in all times of decline are aware of said decline.
asciilifeform: (i will not dignify american school, where i went, with word 'education'. it is more of a kind of prison. where, yes, you can perhaps find the time to read books. but it is not why you are in the prison)
phf: the way i understood that old books thread is that there's no focus on building libraries, i.e. old books as an accumulation of artifacts, but where you get your own knowledge is up to you. so if ascii is keeping a collection of scanz and gives me a copy, it's both purely between us and also about ~my~ education as a cause of ascii's action
phf: there will be no great library of tmsr, but on the other hand no accumulation and exchange of amulets and fetishes of knowledge, because the last can be subverted in all kinds of ways we've seen already.
phf: pre-80s hard bounds as a source of knowledge is a here and now sort of source, same way as pre-2005 amds, etc. not only is it a limited source, it is also unstable. a year from now, we're going to see all the fullstack developers switching to "classics library", and buying up last-known-prints on ebay for +++ bezzle dollars on ebay
asciilifeform: phf: in no sense different from the situation on the ground in, say, 1200s cambridge.
asciilifeform: other than the lower snr.
asciilifeform: and yes, the ~cultural institutions~ that produced my library, are dead as dodo.
asciilifeform: just as dead as classical greece was in 1200.
asciilifeform: 'great library' is eminently possible, just waiting on gossipd.
asciilifeform: same role as the walls of cambridge, with their arrow-slits.
asciilifeform: not so much even against the copyrasts, thought they are pestilential like mosquitoes in some parts of the world,
asciilifeform: but against the jwzs, the 'i just wanted to's, the amulet-peddlers.
phf: the people who bought up all the symbolics keyboards to connect to their gaming pcs, because "dude retro switch action"
asciilifeform: lulzily, i was quite disappointed with the switches.
asciilifeform: (i have both types here)
asciilifeform: the lack of arrow keys, at least, could be seen from photo
asciilifeform: but the miserably switches, not so much.
asciilifeform: *miserable
asciilifeform: no click to speak of
asciilifeform: quite analogous to 'linear Alps', for those who've used these.
asciilifeform: phf: you reminded me of sov legend of some bloke who bought up a buncha 'deficit' bookz, e.g., complete dumas, and put an iron railroad bolt through the stack and then put on shelf, so guests wouldn't try to borrow'em
phf: ahaha
asciilifeform: and i imagine it must suck to be the owner of a real airplane landed on cargo cult island, it will promptly be ripped apart for parts to decorate straw planes the moment you look away
phf: no, but i've seen some extensive libraries in apparatchik homes that i know for a fact nobody read
asciilifeform: lulzily, in usa they print special editions of 'classics' for this use
asciilifeform: you can recognize them by the gold trim
asciilifeform: but if you open, it is on loathesome toilet-like paper
asciilifeform: i wonder why they even bother putting in the text
asciilifeform: at any rate, not all cargo cults are the same! in an american home, you are much more likely to find barbells nobody lifts, elaborate exercise machinery that is rusted solid, etc.
asciilifeform: even expensive trucks that have never seen a load of bricks or cement
phf: expensive trucks reaffirm your masculinity, of course
asciilifeform: my neighbour owns a boat that, i think, has not felt the sea water in decades.
phf: apparently those things are really expensive to run. i used to go on potomac with Georgetown liesure boat crowd, and short, 1-2 hour runs, would cost ~~3k in gas, and that was 8-10 years ago
asciilifeform: re symbolics keyboards, barbarians smashed roman frescoes to decorate sword handles.
asciilifeform: this sort of thing never goes out of style.
asciilifeform: phf: that's what, a litre/second ?! what was on the boat, jet engine ?
phf: i just remember it being outrageous
asciilifeform: not even piston engine airplane is 3k/hr.
asciilifeform: (a few hundy)
mircea_popescu proceeds to read apace.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i forget which one is dulap ?
asciilifeform: i only got 1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescutronic box, s.nsa
asciilifeform: phuctor, trb
mircea_popescu: ah. lol. so i guess i write to host warning that if this happens again they lose the contract,
mircea_popescu: which they ignore and subsequently lose the contract ?
asciilifeform: as always.
mircea_popescu: you sure it's worth it to you ?
mircea_popescu: i judge the move to have been preeeetty boneheaded the last time around.
asciilifeform: i have genuinely nfi
asciilifeform: it would be great if there existed isp worth using.
asciilifeform: but so far evidence is negative.
asciilifeform: afaik we haven't tried non-nato world yet tho.
mircea_popescu: there exists no such thing as a length of rope made by the fiat world that is genuinely what it claims to be.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you tolerate mpex on a box like this ?
mircea_popescu: mpex is written by people who, unlike you, live in the world as it is. consequently, it doth not care. what you see is not ENVIRONMENT.
asciilifeform: (not saying the no-secrets-save-for-sshkey phuctor box is comparable, but simply for argument)
mircea_popescu: it's not fucking CIRCUMSTANCE that makes me rich and powerful, ya prole.
mircea_popescu: and whoever the fuck cuts your neck did not do so because his blacksmith had better steel.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can retract the spikes, no one was proling at you.
mircea_popescu: but the very idea!
asciilifeform: and yes mircea_popescu described his system of disposable proxies and inner boxes guarded by legionaries or how it went.
mircea_popescu: it's expensive as fuck to run because it is redundant as fuck and built out of atomic shit.
asciilifeform: i recall.
asciilifeform: but with phuctor we have the sad of both worlds, expensive AND porous.
mircea_popescu: anyway - since i recall you itching to do it throughout the YEAR LONG outage, which in my best business judgement is not fucking acceptable, suppose you find a server, and once (and only once) you're satisfied it entirely meets your specs we move over ?
mircea_popescu: but not before, because honestly in between a) shrug and make the engineers rewrite the software to be windows proof and b) turn off the service for another year because the world is not ready yet, even an entry level manager would know enough to pick a every time.
asciilifeform: well, thing doesn't suffer from resets per se.
asciilifeform: it is the principle of the matter, i have nfi who did what to the disk while it was off.
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, on.
mircea_popescu: so then... call it "modern computing" and let it be.
asciilifeform: but apparently the monkeys need it, for some reason, to be off.
asciilifeform: perhaps only as 'horse's head'
mircea_popescu: because idiots.
asciilifeform: i have nfi, for instance, what - if anything - was removed from, or added to, db
asciilifeform: or whether the trb on the box is worth using any moar
asciilifeform: nor is it possible to easily decide this through mechanical means.
mircea_popescu: even more alternatively, if you're just about ready to move out of nato and place a rack in your own basement i'm definitely just about ready to ship you the server in question. have been for a while nao.
phf: it seems the way it's going it's equally "safe" to host box in basement now, and only upload static pages of results to web
asciilifeform: i don't expect to find a massively improved commercial server anywhere, for the reasons mircea_popescu described.
mircea_popescu: phf i'm not entirely sure i wish to risk that much in property behind enemy lines, but i guess if one musts...
asciilifeform: at this point the only thing that can be asked is for the thing to be more often up than down...
mircea_popescu: (and yes i do think you people are ~idiots for keeping chattels there, exactly for the reasons and exactly to the degree i think jews moving around berlin in the 30s with golden whatevers on their person, such as teeth, idiots.)
asciilifeform dun look at me, i have nuffin'!111
mircea_popescu: well his proposal was for you to have a server.
asciilifeform: i would already have built 10 if i had where to put.
asciilifeform: this was discussed in older thread.
asciilifeform: i haven't the provisions for cooling or noise isolation.
asciilifeform: (no cellar)
phf is living in a tiny overpriced appartment, so assume ascii with his house has space to start tmsr space program
asciilifeform: if anyone tuned in is interested in such experiment, please write in.
asciilifeform: phf: i live in tiny overpriced house thing.
asciilifeform: paying largely from the human-free space ~around~ it.
asciilifeform: *for the
asciilifeform: i do have the keys to a place with a rack, but it has own problems (no cooling in the summer on weekends and roof has been known to leak...)
asciilifeform: in fact, that's what killed 'bucephalus'.
asciilifeform: (who remembers what it was..?)
ben_vulpes: trb node!
ben_vulpes: leastaways one ran there once.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: was one of my 4, yes
asciilifeform: now there are 2.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/MWa
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: and in today's random trilema historical lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/for-capitalism/
mircea_popescu: danke ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: bitte
mircea_popescu: and in other web lulz, http://www.turkmenpress.com/ << used to be the website of the state turkmen press agency
mircea_popescu: if anyone feels like trolling the shit out of lolcows in languages they don't even understand, tweet https://archive.is/X5oos#selection-1453.1-1453.24 to @lorenalupu and watch the fireworks :D
shinohai: HAd nothing better to do so done mircea_popescu https://twitter.com/SatoshiShinohai/status/737409711570587648
shinohai: /me sits back and waits to get cursed in Romanian
mircea_popescu: should be interesting.
mircea_popescu: curious if i manage to get two idiots to delete their blogs the same day.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 527.9, vol: 6150.01588999 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 525.213, vol: 8260.05673 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 535.49, vol: 33565.00986183 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 0.12 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 564.610781, vol: 61484.65420000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 529.49, vol: 916.25418976 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 532.4442, vol: 159.56181215 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: so the various usg exchanges doing fuckall volume are STILL clinging on to their delusional notions of what the price is, days later.
mircea_popescu: cue mp saying there's no bitcoin price signal i guess.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 14:56 asciilifeform: also mircea_popescu in the original 'books are dead' you have '...tot asa cum n-ati stiut niciodata greaca veche...' but we know you ~do~ greaca veche !
mircea_popescu: a thanx diametric
mircea_popescu: oops i mean diana_coman
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473589 << no, that's not the test, that's masturbation. the real life test is, take some kids who grew up on blogs ; and some derps who grew up on books, and see who manage to thoroughly fuck up their interactions with mp. that's the fucking test, the test of life, not the test of school-alike.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:23 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473575 << let's try a gedankenexperiment. take a bunch of folks who grew up on books, and another set who grew up on blogs (let's say, the spiffiest blogs!) -- and see which set can solve a set of differential equations, build a cement mixer, a house that stands up, write gcd, whatever torture test you prefer.
mircea_popescu: the test for the nascent burgunds / germans / whatever the fyck you'd call them wasn't whether "they could build roman baths", either.
mircea_popescu: it was whether they'll live or die on the corpse of rome's empire. strictly that. and in my hands locklin will starve.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:29 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the medium is intrinsically unfriendly on account of every-derp-can-modify.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the renaissance happened EXACTLY because of the blog-like organisation of the textual community of the time, and it was for the record largely an oral process ; its notation rather very similar with the btcbase.org service.
mircea_popescu: ie, an afterthought.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473619 << i think you have a very naive view on the matter driven perhaps by the narrow point of the samizdat experience. this was never the case, to this date most apocrypha problems are not in fact solved.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:30 asciilifeform: and in any case unmutilated copies abounded and could not be remotely fucked with.
mircea_popescu: perhaps the most amusing example for our purposes here being the late forgery known as "donatio constantini")
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473623 <<< i guess ima have to translate that caragiale piece, it's very much apropos.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:32 diana_coman: dunno, maybe it all even started with the printing press then along those lines
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 550.443731305
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473642 << this is not merely false, it is backwards to reality. a lot of cocks do not result in a "loose" pussy ; they result in a well musculated, pleasurable fuckhole. similarly so, the only thing that results in thick "mental carpaces" are "healthy" ie deratized situations.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:40 asciilifeform: they result in a thickening of the mental carapace of thinking people
mircea_popescu: which is why "every" imbecile ustard agreed di maggio is some sort of big deal 50 years ago, much like every argentine fucktard thinks messi is "his idol".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473644 << this was a miserable idea to begin with. cry me a river of small violins over how the illo tempore "good socialism" of "every man had a wife" is some sort of something i should care about.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:40 asciilifeform: do you know the stories told by math profs, of how up to 1980s or so they would accept unsolicited manuscripts purporting to prove a theorem, but then had to stop ?
mircea_popescu: fuck whatever the fuck derp "can't" (ie, doesn't, DELIBERATELY, want to) get in the WoT. Fuck him with ten thousand dongs borrowed from the leprosarium, he is the enemy.
mircea_popescu: above any obama or any other nigger ; above any "4th column" idiot kids imagining themselves sikrit agents.
mircea_popescu: "In Texas and a number of other states, it’s legal to shoot a dog if someone is “reasonably” afraid of it." << everywhgere sane, pretty much. wtf.
mircea_popescu: you want to derp with dogs, buy a ranch.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473834 << eh hey i get it, sure, mircea_popescu is odoacer, and doesn't give half a rat's arse if anybody ever builds another aqueduct or blows a glass vase, esp not if it's a stinking dickless city-dwellin' pedo, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 23:43 mircea_popescu: the test for the nascent burgunds / germans / whatever the fyck you'd call them wasn't whether "they could build roman baths", either.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473835 << i'ma have to reread the original mircea_popescu-vs-locklin thing aren't i.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 23:44 mircea_popescu: it was whether they'll live or die on the corpse of rome's empire. strictly that. and in my hands locklin will starve.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not going to import as much as a nail's dirt worth of old crap, even for all the vases in the world, be they made of glass bead or kidney stone.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a defensible position, but so is the fact that folks who don't know what a prime number is are beasts of the field.
asciilifeform: just like folk who haven't any clue how to adjust rifle for wind and fall.
asciilifeform: or can't wire a light.
mircea_popescu: i am not convinced there's twenty people alive who know what a number is altogether, prime or not.
asciilifeform: know in the rifle sense.
asciilifeform: not in peano's.
mircea_popescu: and that should now make a difference.
asciilifeform: it makes a difference precisely where the rifle does.
mircea_popescu: since when does this "functional literacy" constitute a standard.
asciilifeform: if you can't pgp you are a beast of the field.
asciilifeform: and pgp is liable to resolve to 'build it'.
asciilifeform: just like in 15th c. cannoneer and trigonometer was identical.
asciilifeform: dun like this standard? complain to god of war, not me.
mircea_popescu: was never fucking identical.
asciilifeform: well obviously not in the 'every bloke with cannon a pythagoras' sense.
mircea_popescu: king's artillery school "trigonometeer" was trigonometeer much like aol subscriber was "interneteer".
mircea_popescu: there'd better be tits bouncing there i'm in a mood foul as hell
mircea_popescu: close enough.
shinohai: Well there's tits in it
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu get bitten by peron's zombie or wut.
asciilifeform: i can tell he is throwing things.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi dude, i've never been this sick in my life.
asciilifeform: mosquito bites ?
asciilifeform: perhaps it's that plague
mircea_popescu: it's some obscure common cold branch. ain;'t got nothin' but wastin' my time.
asciilifeform wishes mircea_popescu a quick return to battle form.
mircea_popescu: this is my battle form.
mircea_popescu: when healthy i'm in more of a scholarly form i guess.
asciilifeform: in related nyooz i saw what passes for an american military parade today
asciilifeform: it was mightily depressing
asciilifeform: buncha high school bands from midwest.
mircea_popescu: were the nukes pointy at least ?
asciilifeform: and some VERY old men pulled in a wagon thing behind a jeep
asciilifeform: korea vets.
asciilifeform: not ONE rocket or tank or ... any.
asciilifeform: not even motorbikers, apparently those went the other day, in the good weather.
asciilifeform: the americans, so sad, have nfi what a real parade is!
asciilifeform: they think this is it!
mircea_popescu: the chinese are busting the records for that.
asciilifeform: i bet the chinese don't even have to drive the same rocket around a corner 10 times.
asciilifeform: like su did.
mircea_popescu: nope. they actually (from what i hear) make pools and pick which to run
mircea_popescu: so they don't end up embarassed. like, 1 of 3 regiments goes, sorta thing
asciilifeform: as a boy i always imagined that chinese parade includes blokes carrying little stools from which they will - together, and seismically calamitously - jump !
mircea_popescu: lotta changed since you were a boy!
mircea_popescu: used to be, you know, back in the 80s, china was roughly speaking a very large vietnam.
asciilifeform: they had working nukes when i was a boy.
asciilifeform: though people forget this.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473652 << it won't be so, for the same exact reason the "true standard" of "original vellum roll with chain of custody" didn't make it as a "golden standard" past 500ad.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:42 asciilifeform: i wish this were not so
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they had norking wukes ~in the sense the brits do : the americans gave them some.
asciilifeform: in '70s?!
asciilifeform: afaik american 'donation' to cn began with clinton.
mircea_popescu: at whatever point they had that fallout with moscow.
asciilifeform: interesting...
asciilifeform: and to india, they also gave ?!
mircea_popescu: there was military tech transfer to china right around the cuban crisis.
asciilifeform: btw according to brits the american nuke was a fair trade for the gas
mircea_popescu: india i have nfi, possibly brits gave them.
mircea_popescu: sure, and according to every divorced woman the house was fair trade for the nagging.
asciilifeform: lol aha
mircea_popescu: now, not to say that current chinese capacities in rocketry and so on aren't mostly chinese. they are ; with a little dab of helping from anyone available to help for a reasonable fee, the swiss, romanians, jews, whoever the fuck.
asciilifeform: iirc that khan fella went round and round, helpin'.
asciilifeform: and that's just the 1 who advertised his name.
mircea_popescu: truth be told this isn't particularly advanced tech.
asciilifeform: i'd idly like to know if anyone is using the laser separator.
mircea_popescu: wasn't in the 40s either, more of a "holy shit engineering feat" than a "omaigerd its incomprehensible arcana"
asciilifeform: (~100x cheaper than centrifuge isotope separation device)
asciilifeform: in '40s the separation machine was ruinously inefficient.
asciilifeform: esp. the american abomination
asciilifeform: calutron.
asciilifeform: remember it? gigantic mass spec.
asciilifeform: with a funnel.
mircea_popescu: very deeply embedded in my skull as an example of "american engineering"
asciilifeform: usa had cheap electric, but was not remotely cheap enough.
asciilifeform: aha, every literate man's skull i think
mircea_popescu: good thing they didn't make a tin woman, in the shape of a raindeer with a funnel up its butt.
asciilifeform: which is why the crackpot hypothesis that they plundered german uranium is so popular
asciilifeform: there is, in archive, a letter from general groves to truman stating, plainly, that there will not be REMOTELY enough U for bomb.
asciilifeform: in '44.
asciilifeform: (at the production rate then.)
mircea_popescu: it's doubtful wtf the germans had.
asciilifeform: what exactly patton (who died in strange circumstances right after war) found when he plundered the seeekrit shit, is still Officially Seekrit.
asciilifeform: ditto what was in the massive 6-engined junkers that flew to buenos aires in '45.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but he's fondly remembered as the "let's keep going" guy.
asciilifeform: at any rate, germany had the gas centrifuge, it is where su found it.
asciilifeform: worked great.
asciilifeform: ;;google "nazi bell"
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473666 << eh you kidding, i'm the nicest guy there is.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:45 asciilifeform: which is that mircea_popescu has thick walls in his head covered in barbed wire, and newcomers are necessarily massaged by said barbed wire.
asciilifeform: relatedly, i can see ( re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1473848 ) the argument.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 00:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473642 << this is not merely false, it is backwards to reality. a lot of cocks do not result in a "loose" pussy ; they result in a well musculated, pleasurable fuckhole. similarly so, the only thing that results in thick "mental carpaces" are "healthy" ie deratized situations.
asciilifeform: 'nice' ain't nice, makes axenic mice.
asciilifeform: ^ ought to be advertisement jingle...
mircea_popescu: just don't step on any of the invisible tripwires that are found in places which don't even necessarily make geometric sense. TO YOU, NOOB!!1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1473851 << was less 'demoocracy' and more about how world used to be less verminiferous on the whole and folks had a bit moar surplus to throw around.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 00:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473644 << this was a miserable idea to begin with. cry me a river of small violins over how the illo tempore "good socialism" of "every man had a wife" is some sort of something i should care about.
mircea_popescu: ironically, this whole thing is also discussed on trilema. lemme fish it out, mostly for diana_coman 's interest mebbe.
asciilifeform: including thrown at promising n00bs
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473670 << this is a fallacy of the first order. it could be presumed to come from some sort of cleric, who could be presumed to be some sort of transposition of that horror which today i call a nigger. i see no benefit accruing to me on this score for going back to 1850 or 1650.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:46 asciilifeform: no barbed wire is necessary.
mircea_popescu: even then i'd still have had to ask "but do you know voltaire" and gut them if not.
asciilifeform: would rather be ritchie at bell labs, or voltaire ^, or hard-nose british surrounded by angry niggerz to machine gun all day long
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473674 << yeah, except we're fucking that up with euloran noobs ;/
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:48 diana_coman: well, a pgp message at this point quite serves as that letter I guess
asciilifeform: i have not been tuned in.. mircea_popescu, how is the experiment in driving all-comers to pgp coming along ?
asciilifeform: i recall a very recent post re some derp who had to be formally drummed out on account of persistent idiocy
mircea_popescu: the one time when "has Latin", that, specifically, not "can write" or other junk would have served as you wish it to serve, was cca 500 ad. and at that time it served like "knowing idish" served you in the new york harbor cca early 1900s. plenty of people were there because specifically "Pedalavo come se fuggissi, e in realta fuggivo, da lei, da quelle emozioni, da i sogni, da i ricordi, da tutto. E pensavo che dovevo dimenti
mircea_popescu: miserably.
asciilifeform: where do these even come from.
asciilifeform: they, what, search google for 'i'm out of gamez, i need a game' ?
asciilifeform: and find eulora somehow
asciilifeform: 'zakorus123 is no one able to rescue me by buying my 1.2m coppers 07:59
asciilifeform: zakorus123 mircae PLEASE 07:59
asciilifeform: zakorus123 *makes sad puppy eyes*'
asciilifeform: pretty special.
asciilifeform: i dun even play, and i cringe.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, the most pathetic thing at the parade was a GIGANTIC american flag carried by buncha korean derps, emigres,
asciilifeform: one set carrying banner, 'korean unification league' or somethinglikethat
asciilifeform: hard to imagine moar pathetic set.
asciilifeform: except possibly if they had czechs
asciilifeform: at whose embassy there is a shrine to patton, who took ~one town~
asciilifeform: (and nothing at all about, well, the folks who actually kicked the jerries out of their pesthole)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so dude goes in, wants to buy coppers, which me and n other people tell him to simmer down and figure out the game first ; then spends the next weeks hussling bitcent at a time.
mircea_popescu: his whatever subscription UNEXPECTEDLY ended today, he had no idea this is gonna occur you know, 4 days ago.
asciilifeform: eulora has subscriptions ?!
asciilifeform: then ???
mircea_popescu: i dunno what he was paying, something steam or whatever
asciilifeform: what's it to do with eulora ?!
asciilifeform: what am i missing
mircea_popescu: dude had an unexpected expense in the form of a lapsing subscription, being the idea.
asciilifeform: ah he wanted btc
mircea_popescu: ~like "hey, my electricity bill came thursday, i had no idea monday this might occur"
asciilifeform: and ~demanded!1111~ to be fed
asciilifeform: this apparently is an actual thing, some folks were taken down from the trees by mistake, and cannot handle any timed process more complicated than skinning banana
mircea_popescu: "i've never observed these things show up regularly on a monthly schedule befoar"
shinohai: ty BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: it's a very "western world" phenomena, roughly half the beatings in half the girls in the first half year have something to do with "i was surprised by X periodic event", usually a bill or w/e
asciilifeform: one would naively imagine that GURLS would have no problem with this !1111
asciilifeform: srsly do they not menstruate.
asciilifeform: does it not behave even approximately as timer.
asciilifeform: or is it, too, 'surprise' ?!
mircea_popescu: honestly i think it's an outgrowth of the "college experience"
asciilifeform: where, what, there is no such thing as semester ?
mircea_popescu: college in teh modern democracy being this roughly speaking featureless insane asylum. getting terms extended becomes then positive attention, and so they start seeking it for lack of anything else more meaningful to seek
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was in the asylum, it had the seeds of this at the time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) most surpriseful of all surprises b) girls of the age living "alone" ie, not tonsils deep in other girl's cunts don't usually have regular periods.
asciilifeform: but generally folks had to at least feign illness to get terms extended
mircea_popescu: it's a funny if poorly studied phenomenon : much like immunity in young children is mostly herd-based,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought they synced with roommates / officemates
mircea_popescu: period regulation in young females is ALSO herd based.
mircea_popescu: not without biological exchange though.
asciilifeform: there is ~no such thing in usa studentland as 'chick living alone'.
mircea_popescu: think in terms of "hepatitis alone" rather than "influenza alone"
asciilifeform: i thought all they had to do was be in smellin' range.
mircea_popescu: notrly. i think that only works in rats.
mircea_popescu: wearing each other's underwear works though.
asciilifeform: in the kind of close quarters dorm folk live in, they may as well be eating each other's undies.
asciilifeform: (have you ~seen~ the rat pits.)
mircea_popescu: condomsharing (ie, when you enter them alternatively without bothering to change the condom) definitely does.
mircea_popescu: yeah well there's that.
mircea_popescu: i suspect sweat actually is also a major factor ; definitely urine. complicated matter and i'm lazy. let the curious mind run their own studies.
mircea_popescu: neways, this log is long an' the flesh is weak. bbl!
asciilifeform also bbl, pet was waiting.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> miserably. << But no one joined just to gank your mining barge
trinque: asciilifeform: you are reusing the ID field in your atom feed
trinque: my assumption is that is why posts are missed.
trinque: were that unique as per (iirc) the spec of atom it'd not be skipping posts
trinque: can just put #timestamp on the ID or something if you like
trinque: checked code, ID field indeed. were I to use timestamp, then some asshole would give me two of the same timestamp
trinque: I can either check each field for differences like a retard or just be given an ID that identifies the event, not the thing to which it happened
asciilifeform: 'If the herd becomes too loud or too otherwise noticeable in any one place, the people will just move to another place.'
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