ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 83 > 95?
ben_vulpes: mod6: i have a trashy pdf copy of dodrill's 95 ada instructional material. lmk if you want a copy.
ben_vulpes: very very educational.
ben_vulpes: much like the language in its explicitness.
mats: upon arrival at http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-auction-a-winrar-is-znort987 i am greeted with auth dialog and 'The server says: Fuck you..'
ben_vulpes: i get basic auth request too
davout: ben_vulpes trinque mats ty, fixed. this particular flavour of retardation has been shot in the head
asciilifeform: quite unlike the rest of computing, yes, but don't take my word for it
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448483 << I said the same thing in the other chan a few hours earlier http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-04-2016#1443837
jurov: lmao whats this <a href='http://btcbase.org/log/...'>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/...
jurov: (see $currentline-2 in the btcbase log)
jurov: and the lmao line is badly escaped, too
jurov: phf ^
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448517 << again, unlike literally the entire whole of rest of computingdom, the old adas are neither less-broken NOR BETTER-supported.
asciilifeform: read the rationale b00kz, understand how and why.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell wywialm yes but do it here.
mircea_popescu: davout> ben_vulpes trinque mats ty, fixed. this particular flavour of retardation has been shot in the head << making it the... 5th ? since bitbet receivership brought serious republican scrutiny to franco.is blog ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL good call.
mircea_popescu: for the republic's store of reaction gifs, in case of need : http://49.media.tumblr.com/560a9088996bebfe3e89c4275dd5aa5b/tumblr_o1god4CWCq1ule9rko1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: $up wywialm
deedbot: wywialm voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: $gettrust deedbot wywialm
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
mircea_popescu: you should be able to self-voice.
wywialm: hi, thanks
wywialm: i haven't yet got the hang of deedbot voicing
mircea_popescu: you pm it $up and decrypt the otp it gives you, then pass it back with $v <result>
wywialm: ah, ok, similarly to the previous assbot
jurov: hi wywialm
wywialm: could you please share what are the plans for MPEx future, besides what has already been revealed at the announcement? in particular, S.MPOE produced majority of volume. Are there any plans to increase the activity on other stocks?
wywialm: hi jurov
mircea_popescu: wywialm you familiar with that buffett quote about volume ?
wywialm: i'm familiar in general on his views on not having a liquid market available, but cannot recall the quote
mircea_popescu: well, there's plenty. one went something like "to call a party with low capital and high transacted volume an investor is not unlike calling a guy in a dirty overcoat that stalks women and jacks off a romantic".
wywialm: i didn't even know this one
wywialm: but it is adequate
mircea_popescu: another's what he said to the berkshire market maker, ie that if the next trade happens next quarter he'll be happy.
mircea_popescu: the idea here is that mpex is a strictly correct and strictly complete reflection of bitcoin business, such as it is.
mircea_popescu: if one's not happy with the volume thereof, one's only recourse is to start a business.
mircea_popescu: attempting to "create business" from the position of the central bank is both stupid and a doomed enterprise.
mircea_popescu: taking mpex private resolves the last possible avenue for derps to argue about this point.
wywialm: indeed it does. but without liquid (or at least 'fairly liquid') stocks, there can be no derivatives market on top of them (no hedging available at reasonable price).
mircea_popescu: and without a solid protocol there can be no serious interest in cryptocurrency.
wywialm: also, the interest of a shareholder in a public company is not always in line with the exchange's. And exchange can encourage volume or discourage it.
mircea_popescu: while these facts are exactly that - facts ; the situation remains what it is. lots of people working to fix it, of course, but until it's fixed it's not fixed.
wywialm: re: protocol - agreed.
mircea_popescu: i think the intention is for mpex to be neutral.
mircea_popescu: historically, or at least in my read of history, anything but neutral resulted in destruction of value from a secular perspective.
wywialm: i hope you are right in this case.
mircea_popescu: if anything, the bitbet experience has taught me that i had been erring in the supportive direction, at any rate.
mircea_popescu: apparently even the slightest insulation from risk is bound to be misinterpreted in the most extensively insane sense. i have nfi how the fed chairman sleeps at night.
mircea_popescu: but, currently, i am not even convinced the possibility of hedging is actually a wealth increaser.
wywialm: it is certainly in some situations a wealth-preserver (or not wealth decreaser). as with any insurance, it comes at a cost
mircea_popescu: the immediate correlate of "oh, i can distribute my risk to unknown parties" is, "i'll right now!! put less thought into the matter proportionately". however, whether the risk distribution works or does not work is not actually known, or even computed, now. this impedance causes trouble.
jurov: yeah, right, let us eschew insulation from risk and send out zero fee transactions, lest it be misinterpreted!
mircea_popescu: wywialm you might be familiar with the unpopular office of the censor in the roman empire. his job was principally to deny women, 2nd class citizens with very little self-expression debuchees allowed by society outside of conspicuous consumption, the use of luxurious products.
wywialm: in a general sense, we can expoit less than 1 correlation among different assets, bets or scenarios
mircea_popescu: the reason was very strictly that, obviously, if you pay ten aurei for a nice purple, and then wear it off, you WILL be ten aureii less rich.
mircea_popescu: jurov i have nfi why the peanut gallery got stuck on "0 fee tx", and i have nfi why you particularly wanna paint yourself in those colors, but w/e.
wywialm: yes i am familiar with the censor
mircea_popescu: what's next, we're gonna discuss whether "obama is for the people" ?
mircea_popescu: wywialm well, the idea is that what people want and what people need rarely meet.
mircea_popescu: obvious why people want insurance. unobvious that such a thing is even possible.
wywialm: i certainly agree with that observation
mircea_popescu: yes, it is frequerntly implemented. but always as a ponzi to date.
mod6: (04:07) <+ben_vulpes> mod6: i have a trashy pdf copy of dodrill's 95 ada instructional material. lmk if you want a copy. << sure! hit me with a link or we can talk in pm if you wanna exchange in other method.
wywialm: nevertheless, in a very general sense, any action involves taking specific risks and avoiding others. Say, me not invested in S.BBET successfully insulated me from the risk of it going into receivership
mircea_popescu: except now you can't make bets.
mircea_popescu: successful insulation is another way to say economically dead, really.
mircea_popescu: or i guess more properly : "you'll be economically insulated when you're dead."
wywialm: yes, it is not possible to be insulated from anything and stay 'active' in any meaningful way, but it doesn't mean that you can be exposed to everything or that one shouldn't choose carefully what risks to take and from which to insulate.
mircea_popescu: this is the defense against the risks problem above usually deemed as rational. the problem here is that this in practice always devolves to a sort of "when confronted with the number e, i wish to be insulated from the part past the decimal point and underwrite the part before the decimal point".
mircea_popescu: this splitting works for definedrisks. it can never work when you want to put defined risks in one pile and undefinable risks in the other pile.
mircea_popescu: because you can't trade away what you can't define.
wywialm: oh, yes, we certainly agree on that point. one cannot trade something which is not an asset.
mircea_popescu: even if it were a liability, but it must be specified.
wywialm: but i suspect we may come close to a sort of tautology quite soon
mircea_popescu: so in this sense the "split risks so i only undertake what i want to" works well in theory and on paper, but it is in practice always devolved to a luzly idiocy like "the gauss copula", direct equivalent to yesterday's discussion re the problem of computers
wywialm: it still works when you realize that you have to invest in something and there is no risk-free asset
mircea_popescu: this "realize" is of the nature of "you have to understand we love you", ie, entirely devoid of cognitive content. it is a bit of propaganda one has to accept. ok, so they accept it - or don't. fine. what now ?
mircea_popescu: how is it, for that matter, different from "you have to accept, as a hyip investor, that it's not really an investment".
mircea_popescu: (and for people who aren't in finance and don't follow that trade, perhaps a good primer for the "gaussian copula" lulz is http://trilema.com/2013/why-mpex-is-better-than-fiat-institutions-part-349085-we-dont-use-excel/ seeing how nobody wants to admit or discuss the matter anymore much like the jews forgot all about sabbatai zevi.)
wywialm: in a hyip world, you have to 'invest' something that is at least a bit worthwhile to scam it from you, which means that there is at least one non-hyip asset and holding it without investing is an investment decision. holding this asset (e.g. USD) is not itself risk-free, but insulates you from hyip risk and exposes you to other risks
mircea_popescu: wait, and it's not worthwhile for the social security administration to scam it from you ?
mircea_popescu: how come they keep doing it ?!
wywialm: that's why 'it exposes you to other risks'
mircea_popescu: there's no executive priviledge vested in anyone but myself. if the president of the united states and some low life in niger say the same thing, they ARE the same thing.
mircea_popescu: i and i alone benefit from the priviledge of calling it "other risks". not them.
mircea_popescu: they gotta call it what it is.
wywialm: yes, i'm looking from the investor's perspective (or at least try to)
mircea_popescu: well, from the investor's perspective, "you have to accept that this is bullshit anyway" is the same thing in either case.
wywialm: not all bullshits are made equal
mircea_popescu: maybe. but this suddenly is a different discussion than the lofty place we started.
mircea_popescu: indeed, not all bullshits are made equal ; and supposedly the market might help distinguish. maybe so.
mircea_popescu: but once the market is both predicated on and discerning the bullshit, you have constructed a very unstable circularity.
wywialm: i still hold that is not possible that every asset is a scam
mircea_popescu: which, as a sidepoint, is exactly why increased integration (aka, globalisation) comes with exponentially increased instability.
mircea_popescu: with less integration, the respective bullshits can at least be somewhat measured against each other on the fx markets.
wywialm: but while it is possible that there is only one bullshit (global currency) it is not possible that the number of currencies equals number of economic and political entitites
mircea_popescu: wywialm i sympathize with the "not every asset is a scam angle". but consider say apple. could it buy russia ?
mircea_popescu: "it's not a scam, it's a meaningless paper construction built by people who weren't evil, just wrong, and who should have known better but didn't" ?
wywialm: of course there are limits to corporate valuation based on marginal transactions and comparison of this valuation to total nominal spending of final goods aka GDP
wywialm: and these limits are obvious once you start comparing apples and russias
mircea_popescu: let's make it even worse. suppose tomorrow its governmental sponsor announces that it is "under investigation" for "violations". you know for a fact they can steal any amount from its coffers, liek they did with say jpm.
mircea_popescu: for the simple reason that they put it there in the first place.
mircea_popescu: suppose, alternatively, that tomorrow china declares that apple is banned as a terrorist organisation, and no azn corp can do business with them.
wywialm: yes, indeed this is why economic power is no power at all unless explicitly (but not always consciously) involved in politics
wywialm: as in your 'millionaire' essay, cash is of no political significance unless its holder or political institutions around him makes it political
mircea_popescu: something like that. at least in macro terms, cash is not much more or much else than a right to organise activity.
mircea_popescu: and motherfucker this black chocolate with almods thing is to die for.
mircea_popescu: anyway - back to the scam thing briefly - bitcoin does in fact deliver on its "best economics lab ever devised" role, for they capable and willing to look. the whole "didn't start out as a scam" thing that is pretty much the universal rule of fiat anything, played itself more obviously, more rapidly, in the hands of more naive people less versed in covering it up.
mircea_popescu: so... yeah.
mircea_popescu: you'll be hard pressed to find a fiat corp today that is anything but another pirate ; and even fifty years ago you'd have been hard pressed to find a fiat corp that wasn't a sort of bASIC from our friend tom with blood and tears.
mircea_popescu: and HAD you found it, it'd have been some family venture ran either by the hardass patriarch that founded it, or else by an exactly cloned son.
mircea_popescu: also re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448620 : i suspect that's actually the role corporate paper (generally stocks, or else bonds - corporate bonds being the EXACT equivalent of national currencies, by the way, supported in the same way) plays here.
wywialm: yes, it is quite insightful to look at corporate papers as a national currency. Both are composed from a liquidity premium and a claim on some assets. In case of national currencies, the liquidity premium is very large and claim on central bank's assets very weak, but not nonexistent
wywialm: the quality or even existence of those assets are a separate thing
mircea_popescu: actually, in the case of non-sovereign central banks, the claim on assets is VERY strong. recall the case with cyprus ? ( http://trilema.com/2013/time-for-europe-to-repeal-the-us-backed-aml-crap/ )
mircea_popescu: just as soon as the damage done to a hated third party (here, the russians and especially the saudis) exceeds the damage done to the item itself, it's 100%.
wywialm: true observation
mircea_popescu: i am for my needs persuaded that strictly the only reason germany does not today confiscate every fixed good in current possession of its peon population is that the net result is deemed less than continuing with the current nonsense.
mircea_popescu: once that changes - they'll take it all. and i don't mean houses and cars, i mean blood and livers. they also have a market value.
wywialm: well, they once tried that
wywialm: and in Poland it won't be easily forgotten
mircea_popescu: the important point, at least to my eyes, is that exactly nothing has changed.
wywialm: this view seems to be increasingly more prevalent, lately, in particular in connection to their solving of the recent EU problems
mircea_popescu: ah, but i don';t mean it re germany specifically. could have said france or italy just as well. what i mean is, that a "rule of law" bureaucratic government with an economic presence is strictly speaking the nazi party irrespective of any consideration, chief on the list what they say or think they want.
mircea_popescu: this entire fiat sovereignity bullshit has to end, and the sooner the better. preferably before it does yet another rendition of its signature stupidity.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448593 << 'we have packaged the defective transistors separately!111'
mircea_popescu: o hai alf.
asciilifeform: guten morgen mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: in typical republican fashion, while everyone else was sleeping we got together and shat a few hundred lines of heavy duty material into the logs. go us!
phf: oh hello, we're talking about language
mircea_popescu: let the permanent record indelibly state that you people are driving me to drink. it is not even noon here, and what started as "shit i need breakfast to keep up with this guy. and some chocolate. more chocolate" is by now my 2nd glass of cognac.
asciilifeform: $gettrust wywialm
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 3 by 1 connections.
mircea_popescu: btw phf you gonna document what the little blue graph on top of pages even is ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448569 << this is sorta why i was astonished at the high sale price; buyer will have to build ~his own~ mircea_popescutron
asciilifeform: (of bbet)
mircea_popescu: maybe buyer has it. who knoes.
asciilifeform: (cue jurov's 'one that shoots 0fee tx!111')
asciilifeform: but srsly, just ~storing~ 100s of btc is nontrivial, esp in the barbarian lands
mircea_popescu: i imagine you did some speccing work since you bid huh.
phf: mircea_popescu: if i end up finding it at all useful, i will. i used spacing to indicate when were the active parts of day, so i'm trying this graph to provide an equivalent functionality. it's a number of messages/hour of day histogram
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: before.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was 'mortido' that led me to bid. i wanted to see if i could pull it off without getting killed immediately.
mircea_popescu: see the above german liver equation.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448586 << i have a scan of the canonical (j. barnes) 2012, if either of you want.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448622 << was it mircea_popescu at c2 who had a talk about how 'scammitude' is rather like friction, and is not escapeable ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448626 << afaik there is nothing to keep usg from zeroing out any usd account they feel like, whenever
asciilifeform: 'ghaddafi's usd are no longer valid!11'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448652 << which is precisely why i call the thing 'nazi' and its hypothetical center of mass - hitler.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448653 << this performance is not likely avoidable.
asciilifeform: too many biodiesel candidates walking.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448603 << i'm beginning to suspect that ~every~ subj has its shabbatai zev.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's one dispute to be had. i doubt very much hitler was anything but a center of mass. yes roosevelt intuited that since he wants the bureaucracy, the right move is to blame hitler, and yes churchill went along with it. but in point of fact...
mircea_popescu: nah, hitler's a minor player. it was der partei.
mircea_popescu: ;;google die partei, die partei, die hat immer recht
gribble: Lied der Partei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lied_der_Partei>; The Party is Always Right! - German Joys: <http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_joys/2007/01/das_lied_der_pa.html>; Ernst Busch - Lied der Partei - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eByxIINticQ>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform should the performance not be avoided, for it not being avoidable or for any other reason, such as that i feel like blood that morning, the bill will be paid, both here and in heaven, by the fiat governments and no one else.
asciilifeform: ^ the antic in the 1st photo turned out to be, apparently, weev!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when's the paper from ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: univ. of md. rag
asciilifeform: circa some time last wk
mircea_popescu: ah ah.
mircea_popescu: guy underwent a white supremacist conversion in prison. (which is not particularly surprising - gotta make some friends somehow!)
mircea_popescu: was curious if this was pre-term or not.
asciilifeform: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/nyregion/hacker-weev-says-he-printed-anti-semitic-and-racist-fliers-at-colleges-across-us.html?_r=0 << also lulzy re same
mircea_popescu: "He was convicted of violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act and faced 41 months in prison, but the sentence was overturned." reheheheallly. what ever happeend to "he was wrongfully prosecuted by X and unlawfully imprisoned for 41 months before the people finally came to their senses" ?
mircea_popescu: or is that not how you say usg dun goofed in usg.agitprop
asciilifeform: iirc 'overturned on a technicality' (tm)
mircea_popescu: you mean "wrongfully convicted on a technicality"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> guy underwent a white supremacist conversion in prison. (which is not particularly surprising - gotta make some friends somehow!) << He was kinda a play white supremacist before prison for the lulz. Switch was flipped in prison.
mircea_popescu: a ? haven't really been following.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: american courts largely operate 'on technicalities' now, except when usg's verdict is assured by a tame freisler. it is how they avoid crafting inconvenient precedents.
mircea_popescu: so then ?
mircea_popescu: here's how spears work : they have a business end and a handle. the handle - always points toward you. the business end - always points to the enemy.
mircea_popescu: there is no exception to this rule.
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, he was wrongfully convicted on a technicality.
asciilifeform: http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/claymore-thumb1-300x222.jpg << for ref.
mircea_popescu: haha yeah.
asciilifeform: but it was the tampon donation bin that really melted my brain.
asciilifeform: i looked inside, wondering if anyone threw in used one, but - apparently not.
mircea_popescu: no idea wtf they must be thinking - poor woman should get free tampons from strangers rather than become the domestic servant / slave / whatever of a not-poor woman ? or sex toy of a man ? or or or ?
mircea_popescu: this "need therefore get" bs is inane already. "need therefore labour"!
asciilifeform: i have profoundly nfi!
asciilifeform: though here in the land of the great inca, all women formally belong to the great inca
asciilifeform: who dispenses food and tampon alike!11
mircea_popescu: great inca's a basic bitch.
shinohai: https://news.bitcoin.com/coinwallet-forced-shut-data-breach/ <<< use moar online wallets.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i would *love* a copy of that
ben_vulpes: mod6: i'll get you a dump later today
deedbot-: [Qntra] Furry Perverts Hack Radio Stations To Evangelize Their Filth - http://qntra.net/2016/04/furry-perverts-hack-radio-stations-to-evangelize-their-filth/
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: oh for fucks sake!1 that's qntraworthy now?!
BingoBoingo: Infrastructure is being taken over by deviant perverts!
BingoBoingo: What's yet another credit card break when this is happening.
asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/04/neutered-random-number-generator-let-man-rig-million-dollar-lotteries << lulzier nyooz imho
BingoBoingo: I'll get there when the coffee brews up.
asciilifeform: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/04/baby-who-had-his-diapers-searched-at-airport-is-part-of-class-action-suit << lulz from same rag.
asciilifeform: ''According to the civil complaint filed in federal court in Virginia on Tuesday, the boy had been given an “SSSS designation indicating that he had been designated as a ‘known or suspected terrorist'" while going through airport security. Since he was a seven-month-old, Baby Doe, as he is referred to, was subject to “extensive searches,” including rifling through all of his diapers.'
BingoBoingo: anyways asciilifeform 1. Furfags don't have a Turing or a Jurov to redeem them
BingoBoingo: 2. Broadcast radio is a big deal
BingoBoingo: 3. Some people here are now parents and need the warning
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: big deal how ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What else do people listen to when driving around the big prison?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: personally i listen to 'радио звезда'
BingoBoingo: Spotify and Pandora don't have live traffic updates
asciilifeform: which is spiffy, has b00kz
asciilifeform: right now it is doing life & times of Peter I
BingoBoingo: But what if natural gas life is ignited by construction derps along your commute route?
jurov: til BingoBoingo takes exception not only with fatties, but also with furries?
asciilifeform: also has interludes for 'hot new weapons system of the day'
asciilifeform: or 'etymology of such&such word'
asciilifeform: or 'how inner ear works'
asciilifeform: this is the moscow public radio btw
asciilifeform: picture culture with actual... culture
asciilifeform: Apr 08 13:07:40 <BingoBoingo>But what if natural gas life is ignited by construction derps along your commute route? << as i pointed out, this dun happen 'round here.
BingoBoingo: jurov: There's a consistency to this
asciilifeform: the 'luckiest' we ever get is massive 'pile-up'
BingoBoingo: jurov: Also the only Furry I know anywhere near bitcoin is that fellow who does the mycellium fungus wallet marketing
asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that 'furries' actually exist.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: We don't usually get massive pileups and these pipe explosions are infrequent. House explosions happen anywhere orcs are allowed to go feral while playing homeowner
BingoBoingo: Anyways this is perhaps the most apt summary of journalism ever: "I kind of like the idea that hes taught himself not to look because if he looks its just neverending, right? You have to know when, as Superman, when to intervene and when not to. Or not when not to, you cant be everywhere at once, literally you cant be everywhere at once, so he has to be really selective in a weird way about where he chooses to interfere."
ben_vulpes: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/04/neutered-random-number-generator-let-man-rig-million-dollar-lotteries/ << run more dynamically-compiled mission-critical code!
asciilifeform: ON WINBLOWZ
asciilifeform: for ~several state lottos at once~
trinque: hats off to everyone who didn't get caught like this guy.
BingoBoingo: This reminds me of the mcdonalds monopoly promotion where the $$$ prizes all went to friends and relatives of the vendor doing the printing for years before they were caught
asciilifeform: casino is a little smarter.
asciilifeform: my brother once participated in the programming for a video poker machine, and was informed by his co. that he will, likely, never be permitted inside a casino in usa
asciilifeform: (he laughed, having no desire to ever set foot in one)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik mcd broke no laws in that case
asciilifeform: given as it was not a lotto.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But the printing vendor did
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: incidentally, ianal, and i wonder what counts as proof of malfeasance in a lotto operator.
asciilifeform: does an unlikely win per se ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm not sure
pete_dushenski: had a dream last night that znort woulda gladly paid twice what he did. man alive are these ex post rationalisation engines humming.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: srsly build yer own bbet ?
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell danielpbarron http://www.contravex.com/2016/04/07/that-time-i-let-outright-ownership-of-bitbet-slip-through-my-fingers/#comment-43114
asciilifeform: kako warned that his src isn't of much use to civilians anyway
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Get a saw and go outside. Clear some brush and your mind?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: just outta curiosity, how were you going to run the thing?
ben_vulpes: hire the beedawg?
BingoBoingo: I kinda though he was going to use BBet to teach pantagruel and himself how to code
ben_vulpes: (b-dog, amusingly, a nickname of mine from the nineties)
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: bbet was established player. hard to replicate. "go build own mpex" about as useful.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Maybe you can buy Betmoose?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: it's going to be 15C+ today, so the bicycle is getting dusted off fo sho. sorta does the same job as hacktimesawtime
BingoBoingo: And then finally rename contravex to MooseCawks!!!
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: ha! if i knew you'd be open to the idea, i mighta bet more ;)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: hacksaw is exactly wrong saw to use outdoors on brush
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: the pantacode angle crossed my mind actually
BingoBoingo: For outdoor brush clearing you want either a chainsaw, reciprocating saw with appropriate blade, or good old fashioned crosscut saw.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: and hack (with axe) then saw (with two-man lumberjack specialsaw) not hacksaw
BingoBoingo: Oh, ic
pete_dushenski: *s/bet/bid more
asciilifeform: two-man lumberjack specialsaw << iirc it is called 'misery whip'
asciilifeform: $up DonaldTrumpOfBTC
BingoBoingo: $up DonaldTrumpOfBTC
deedbot: DonaldTrumpOfBTC voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Hello Mr Clinton
deedbot: DonaldTrumpOfBTC voiced for 30 minutes.
DonaldTrumpOfBTC: should the most senile republic of bitcoin build a firewall to keep chinese miners out?
asciilifeform: $down DonaldTrumpOfBTC
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I told you Trump was just a clinton stooge
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: anyways, at a management level i had in mind to increase the vig/fee and hold on to house bet winnings in an effort to increase revenue to compensate for mistaken txen, resolutions, etc., obviously appreciating that this may, at least initially, discourage some users. was also going to tag in some meatwot to assist with moderation and actively scour meatwot for potential bookies. toyed with th
pete_dushenski: e idea of changing min 0conf but never quite resolved that quandary myself... alas. it was going to be a steep learning curve to be sure, but i was up for the challenge.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai pls to write up lottery rng shennaniganz
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: i think you're better off asking ivanka trump to write for qntra than shinohai. he just doesn't wanna, it seems.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Clintons can't write for qntra
BingoBoingo: Too far outside WoT
pete_dushenski: that's racialist
BingoBoingo: Actively inside the anti-WoT
ben_vulpes: mwell, was nominating stan. wouldn'ta been averse to it myself.
pete_dushenski: all non-wot is anti-wot
BingoBoingo: Well whoever want lottery RBG story can take it. I'm not finding a sufficient outrage to attack it.
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> all non-wot is anti-wot << No. People outside the WoT can still be renown as especially evil.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i momentarily considered stan as an operational partner, but then quickly recalled the ongoing s.nsa saga and how it's basically made "two weeks" (tm) (r) his middle name. not that i fault the 'poor' bastard. he only has so many dr. octopus tentacles with which to do maffs and whatnot.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you mighta been a better fit in some ways, but you also obviously have your hands full with biz, kidz, and foundation
pete_dushenski: bbet really had to be a meatwot project for me
ben_vulpes: sure, right
phf: hire indians™
shinohai: BingoBoingo: link me to sauce? Will give it a whirl when I get back home.
ben_vulpes: hey, they're in the meatwot!
shinohai: Plus, unlike with UStards - no worries about which bathrooms to use. They shit in street!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: another reason why i wouldn't build my own bbet : the same reason i also wouldn't build my own cpu fab. i'm less 'inventor' than 'pro-scavenger'. i'm not 'early adopter', but rather 'fast follower'. to work to my strengths, i wouldn't start my own bbet anymore than you'd start your own strip club.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448528 << jurov thanks i'll look into it. i mean, the http parser consists of search "http" and then search for a set of separators, it's as ghetto as it gets, but i had better results with that approach overall than using a regex
phf: *url parser rather
jurov: but the problem isn't url parsing
jurov: but escaping of < in the output
jurov: at least it looks so
pete_dushenski: shinohai: don't be surprised if ustards go that way too, particularly as average skin shade continues to endarken
phf: jurov: oh oh oh you're talking about log.bitcoin-assets urls being hijacked
jurov: phf that's separate issue
phf: that's … intentional, but obviously breaks after the split
BingoBoingo: shinohai: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/04/neutered-random-number-generator-let-man-rig-million-dollar-lotteries
jurov: Whoever was waiting for coinbr withdrawals, mircea_popescu flushed some this morning, and I did the others now
shinohai: thx BingoBoingo having a nice outdoors lunch, will give it a crack.
phf: jurov: you're talking about this line "PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448483 << I said the same thing in the other chan a few hours earlier http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-04-2016#1443837" yeah?
jurov: phf: it can be soved by other ways then having different host in the label and href
jurov: *other ways than
phf: sure, the ref arrow does the same thing
jurov: like, you can do do s/log.bitcoin.assets/btcbase.org/ globally on everything before the log was launched
phf: that's retarded
phf: you can also arbitrarily patch other people's words and claim authenticity
jurov: and for new entries, if user links to the other place, elt it be
jurov: phf so patching urls is okay?
phf: urls are not part of log
phf: urls are interpretation of what the log is saying in the display facility
phf: in this case log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date urls are treated as a "pointer to a log location"
jurov: I expressly request that when i *today* drop #b-a URL , it should NOT be aliased to btcbase.
phf: jurov: that's obviously a bug and should be fixed :) i just want to have our priors straight
phf: also url patching facility is from before the arrows, so to some extent can now be dropped entirely
jurov: ok, ty
pete_dushenski: in other news, autonomous semi trucks are about to get the vote : http://qz.com/656104/a-fleet-of-trucks-just-drove-themselves-across-europe/
pete_dushenski: one for BingoBoingo and his political crusades : http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35965362 because what is politics if not a movie ?
pete_dushenski: 'Presidential contenders make cautious movie picks'
jurov: phf: yup
phf: old urls are still hijacked though, i think i'm going to disable that, and let just arrows do their thing
jurov: or do the hijacking properly in all cases where it's needed, like polimedia.us -> trilema.com
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448821 << on top of my usual doings i now also spend time looking for wurk...
pete_dushenski: done pulling up excel when boss walks by so soon ? or is guy who stormed out setting a precedent you're keen to follow ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: l0l excel
asciilifeform: i'm simply tired of having to leave the house.
asciilifeform: dun understand why i should have to, to write motherfucking software
pete_dushenski: commuting is pretty gay, no argument
pete_dushenski: i, for one, couldn't imagine spending >1hr just to ~travel~ to work and back. each way. my mind boggles that millions in 'first world' spend 3hrs+ (this is sop in, say, toronto)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i routinely sit 3-4 h/day in car.
pete_dushenski: surprised you haven't programmed own autonomous car ferfuxake. it wouldn't take a month's worth of time stuck behind idiotic wheel in mordor traffic
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i actually don't have much to choose from. 95+% of work in my field requires usg 'top secret'.
asciilifeform: in fact i got a call from no less than motherfucking ft meade the other day.
asciilifeform: not bureaucrats proper, mind you, but contractors with $maxint
asciilifeform: they desperately want serfs.
pete_dushenski: ft. meade doesn't read logs ? for cereal ?
asciilifeform: nobody reads logz.
pete_dushenski: and here i was thinking that we were #1 google hit besttimeeverytime
pete_dushenski: so much for that theory
asciilifeform: i have learned that:
asciilifeform: a) there is ~0 demand for the things i know how to do among honest-work folks
asciilifeform: b) the folks who ~are~ hiring reversers, CAN'T FIND them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will probably, when he wakes up, remind me that i oughta learn a new profession, e.g, organ grinder
asciilifeform: and also will probably not forget to remind that i am ~useless and will be pig food eventually
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, https://www.reddit.com/r/shapeshiftio/comments/4dx6k4/shapeshift_update_april_7_security_breach
asciilifeform: ^ vorhees pwned
pete_dushenski: nah, he'll remind you that soviet chick doesn't need to know when 'wall falls', just needs to know right guy to get her through to other side. there was mega-thread on this at one point.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu generally doesn't have actionable advice for blokes
asciilifeform: 'go and eat a pistol, first pray to vishnu that you can be reborn hot chik'
pete_dushenski: 'be awesome or die' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: aha. mega-algo.
pete_dushenski: the ultimate otp
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: were you here for the 'everett's device' thread ?
pete_dushenski: not that i recall
asciilifeform: do you recall h. everett ?
asciilifeform: of 'many worlds qm'
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: hm. 'fraid not.
asciilifeform: fella who proposed 'parallel universes' treatment of qm, vs bohr's original 'magically collapsing wavefunction when you look at it'
asciilifeform: e's model is not physically demonstable as THE correct model (but neither is bohr's)
asciilifeform: BUT it has the advantage of removing the idiot vitalism that bohr pissed back into physics
asciilifeform: at any rate, everett device is this gadget that tries to guess the answer to a trapdoor problem, e.g., deriving mircea_popescu's private key primes
asciilifeform: and if it fails, it shoots the user in the head
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell danielpbarron http://www.contravex.com/2016/04/07/that-time-i-let-outright-ownership-of-bitbet-slip-through-my-fingers/#comment-43166
asciilifeform: according to everett's mechanics, the outcome of using this device is that you wake up in the universe where the primes were guessed.
asciilifeform: (or, alternatively, where the pistol jammed)
pete_dushenski: haha i like it.
pete_dushenski: everett's device sounds like how stan would design computers and/or bitcoin.
ben_vulpes: slightly less time consuming than attempting to jump through the vault door, i suppose
asciilifeform: actually it is how they make mircea_popescus.
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai
asciilifeform: his algo, in my summary, was, approx., 'start by being 10,000 bright and suicidally daring ro teenagers in the roaring '90s, end by being one mircea_popescu' or the like.
asciilifeform: in mechanical eng. parlance,
asciilifeform: it is an ~ablative~ rather than an ~additive~ manufacturing process.
asciilifeform: think milling vs '3d printing'.
asciilifeform: generally works great, it is how su made ballet dancers, chess champions, etc.
pete_dushenski: also how us made rockefeller(s)
pete_dushenski: how canada still makes hockey players too, though this is the solitary domain where this strategy is herein employed.
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 420.71, Best ask: 420.81, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 420.71, 24 hour volume: 6944.94381268, 24 hour low: 420.01, 24 hour high: 424.49, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: anyway i regard the algo as being ~entirely uninteresting.
danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, I'm just sayin' my bid was valid, and the first! I can sign something to this effect if anyone seriously doubts
asciilifeform: yes, it is interesting to know, e.g., how petroleum was formed in the ground, from dead organisms
asciilifeform: but it does NOT help anyone make moar
asciilifeform: when it runs out.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: also how ukr farmers and rocath french-canadians rose to prominence in the last few centuries in this country : 8 children families sop. mormons continue this practise (plus mega-secrecy) and they're not doing too shabbily by most measures.
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: i hear you, i do. but it's sorta over and done with at this point.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: not so secretly, they - and the hassidim of nyc - collect 'single mother' pensions by the megatonne
asciilifeform: (given as the marriages are not officiated by usg, the women all register as welfare mother cases)
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: have you ever been inside mormon temple ? unless you're architect or engineer who built the thing, or practising mormon thereafter, the answer is nope.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: they give tours
asciilifeform: i used to work right next to it
asciilifeform: but couldn't be arsed.
pete_dushenski: tour of what, bathrooms ? front lawn ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i have nfi! never went!
asciilifeform: they have some exhibits for infidels
ben_vulpes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/24/federal-food-stamp-fraud-charges-could-topple-warren-jeffss-flds-church-utahs-largest-polygamous-sect/ << latest and greatest re welfare
phf: Actually I remember threads from perhaps 2014 where mp was trying to communicate mp-ness, my impression is that he gave up from lack of grokking
phf: What I'm saying it wasn't always "eat a naggant or be awesome"
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448877 >> i routinely sit 3-4 h/day in car. << I knew a guy who went by train from Madison, Ct to NYC every weekday, and another guy who went from rhode island!! to NYC, also train. And to tie into current thread, there was a 3rd guy on the train who was mormon.
phf: It was causes/purposes, original be rich guide, move to Argentina do cash, etc.
asciilifeform: phf: how does 'move to argentina and do cash' work on folks who ain't already rich
phf: You seen the prophet?
phf: Maybe I got the name wrong, about young Arab in prison
asciilifeform: ah no i only read mircea_popescu's review of it.
phf: Anyway I can't communicate that point because I only infrequently manage it, and the results are always predictably +ev, but perhaps it's the idea that minimax requires painful break, but then possibility space opens up and a talented person like yourself will have a relatively easy (though not effortless) time exploiting it
asciilifeform: 'talented' is not a scalar.
asciilifeform: though mircea_popescu appears to think so.
phf: And it's most definitely that you can't reason out of minimax, so sitting there "how does" is not going to work
phf: That's usually when you put on a gas mask
asciilifeform: this is sorta why the 'r-strategy' game is played with teenagers
asciilifeform: because they are dumb enough to do a screamingly -ev thing
asciilifeform: they don't get wedged in minimax pits.
asciilifeform: but briefly back to thread, imho it is important to understand that asking 'how to be mircea_popescu' is a fundamentally broken question, not unlike 'how do i win the lotto'
phf: Sure it's idiotic but that's where conversation ~ended~ with an obvious "eat a naggant" response
asciilifeform: it is actually interesting to me, how mircea_popescu has a very strong respect for folks who take suicidally dumb risks (e.g., the 'oregon patriot' folk, isis snackbars, etc.)
asciilifeform: could it be because fella himself took a strongly -ev tack and won ?
asciilifeform: lessee what he says when wakes up.
asciilifeform: i recall he had a spiffy article, where he cooked up an alternative to the maslow 'pyramid' thing, with 'mystical domination - being right when there was no good reason you could be right' as #5
phf: It started with wolf teaching rabbits to hunt with a playfulness and earnestly "this how you put mouth on jugular see!!" with rabbits going "eww jugular how to hunt carrots like mp?" with an obvious "wtf durp" response
asciilifeform: this is not an unfair summary.
asciilifeform: to be complete, it oughta also contain a reminder that there is not a forest where you can put 10 bil. wolves.
asciilifeform: and have'em eat.
punkman: asciilifeform: but briefly back to thread, imho it is important to understand that asking 'how to be mircea_popescu' is a fundamentally broken question, not unlike 'how do i win the lotto' << hey we just had the answer to lotto. you cheat.
asciilifeform: punkman: when you cheat at lotto, you are simply playing another lotto.
asciilifeform: where you can't cheat.
asciilifeform: (i.e. 10,001 of 'you' will be caught and jailed, 1 - wins.)
asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/02/wheel-of-misfortune.html << while we're on the subj.
trinque: the lottery metaphor doesn't square with the wolves and rabbits metaphor at all.
trinque: one's a pile of fungible derps; the other pointedly isn't
trinque: (in all fairness to the rabbits, I'm aware of at least one instance of a rabbit eating the ears off his weaker brother)
asciilifeform: trinque: you can't be a well-fed wolf just by wanting.
asciilifeform: i have nfi how many mircea_popescus fit on one earth, but i doubt that even 100 do.
trinque: asciilifeform: seems on the order of magnitude of the number of countries.
asciilifeform: trinque: precious little to do with countries.
trinque: I'd say it has everything to do with the architecture of human societies.
jurov: wow, now alf's playing "become mp or bust"?
asciilifeform: from my admittedly amateur understanding, mircea_popescus are produced when power verticals ~collapse~ and teenagers are competing in re cutting throats rather than who can be best young sov bureaucrat.
trinque: jurov: who the fuck are you talking to, the audience?
asciilifeform: jurov: nah, if i wanted to play, i oughta have played when i was 5
jurov: to peanut gallery!
trinque: asciilifeform: seems exactly the right thing to happen right before another power vertical is established
trinque thinks of ender wielding legions as though they are part of his extended body
jurov: asciilifeform: really, no-commute-sleep-adlibitum is quite reachable even without going mp-complete
asciilifeform: jurov: from my current position it is as fantastical as going to mars.
trinque: back to the thread, considering people in isolation is an artifact of this world's thinking.
jurov: no, it's just because you have cut yourself from most exits by forbidding yourself to pay any taxes
asciilifeform: jurov: i presently pay ~50% tax.
asciilifeform: more still, if you count the 'tax breaks' other usians get (e.g. mortgage) that i don't.
trinque: "why is it so hard for an mp to build his superorganism?" is a more interesting question to me than "why not moar mp?"
asciilifeform: why hard.
asciilifeform: he has it.
jurov: create a business, deduct expenses etc...but that discussion's dead horse, i guess
danielpbarron gets to sleep adlibitum for most of the year -- has seasonal job, very little sleep during that season, and zero personal time to speak of
danielpbarron: and since it's not all-year-round, and since no week is even the same really, i don't really get sick of working
mircea_popescu: davout i have nfi what you did here. for one thing, shareholders don't get 86, they get 86 + 1% of resolveed bets - 13.37
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448733 << there's this internet lore furry thing, so i suppose it intends to be high comedy ; but meh.
asciilifeform: jurov: business requires capital.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448761 << had one ambushed by sluts at bdsm event thing, i thought i recounted for teh logs.\
deedbot-: [Qntra] Weak RNG Assists Man's Lottery Fortune - http://qntra.net/2016/04/weak-rng-assists-mans-lottery-fortune/
phf: danielpbarron: my impression is that in all seriousness asciilifeform pines for a technology priest status in an hierarchy that's at the very least not rotten through and through, i.e. building machines for non-lizard-hitler. he despairs since one is not available. as such "become crust punk" advise is totally inapplicable to him
jurov: asciilifeform: Yes.
mircea_popescu: it is altogether dubious, however, that priest-like organisation may exist in world bereft of some sort of hitler.
asciilifeform: phf is a winner!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who said it could.
mircea_popescu: well wanting something you know can't exist is an idle sort of onanism.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure the word want may be thus prostituted.
asciilifeform: ultimately all living things want ridiculous things that could not possibly exist.
mircea_popescu: this is not so.
phf: maybe human hitler is ok, just as long he's not the venusian variety
mircea_popescu: "all women" maybe, and even this is dubious.
mircea_popescu: phf this sounds to me a lot like "we'll build actual programming language on top of this approximating processor thing".
asciilifeform: as a matter of fact, we will.
mircea_popescu: either that or we'll mesterul manole all over the place.
asciilifeform: either that or we get eaten.
mircea_popescu: not even.
asciilifeform: error:1408F119:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:decryption failed or bad record mac] << ?!
mircea_popescu: contrary to what the disney cartoon re-enactions of "the dinosaur age" may show for cinematic value, most dinosaurs died of organ failure, not of being eaten by a supposedly functional superpreditor that in point of fact was barely adequate to count as a manatee in modern terms.
asciilifeform: i thought they died of starvation?
asciilifeform: after meteor 'nuke winter'
mircea_popescu: i mean historically not finally.
asciilifeform: 'you have died of [death] ! please play again.' -- 'oregon trail'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448791 << heh, prolly best bet if that's what he's after is find the freelancer.com injun that did the coding in the first place
mircea_popescu: lol most senile republic :D
mircea_popescu: i suppose the capital really should be alzheimera
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448825 << no he really had the right idea, something like that'd have been a great way to sanitize one's own meatwot.
mircea_popescu: phf i bet you the reason ghetto beats regexp is that regexp is horribly implemented in w/e you use.
mircea_popescu: generally, it's the one thing most hideously implemented anywhere.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448857 << he has a point i think ; while the semantic content of links may perhaps be argued in that way phf , seeing how for instance redirects are honored etc ; nevertheless can't simply hijack people's links.
mircea_popescu: davout for my curiosity, did you move the hotwallet funds or did you pass the codebase along with the hotwallet ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448873 << check it out, he's caught bad habits from irc.
phf: original purpose was to let me read log references without leaving the log reader, but jurov later suggested doing a more exhaustive link fix for deprecated urls
phf: the whole link fix has been superseded by annotations anyway
mircea_popescu: i can see why pre-dragon log would link to itself rather than build an outside dependency. who even knows how long the old log website will last.
mircea_popescu: but that is then. now - people link to whatever they want and it's what it is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i have learned that: a) there is ~0 demand for the things i know how to do among honest-work folks b) the folks who ~are~ hiring reversers, CAN'T FIND them << "socialism works" in other words.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly how it fucking goes.
phf: "there is nothing wrong with your television set. do not attempt to adjust the picture. we are controlling transmission."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a charitable interpretation
mircea_popescu: so im charitable.
phf: behavior was obviously buggy, with an equally trivial fix, i.e. fragment < last-t-a-entry-id
asciilifeform: (the most reality-based hypothesis is that ~asciilifeform~ simply isn't 133337 enough to score decent gig)
phf: but the question of link hijack remains, i will revisit it after i refine the annotation mechanism a bit
mircea_popescu: this isn't how it works. decent gigs, like slutty chicks, aren't "earned", especially not in the linear, old mia farrow view of earning.
asciilifeform: yeah i get it i read nietzsche too
mircea_popescu: well then show it lol
asciilifeform: i also read caesar, where do i 'show' ~that~.
mircea_popescu: where you keep bawing on alexander's grave like some sort of future great general ? i dunno.
mircea_popescu: biggest problem with everett's notions of qm, and why bohr was a respected physicist whereas everett was a sort of h. ellison, was that he purports to have some sort of q-independent causality.
asciilifeform: i have 0 respect for the vitalist bohr.
mircea_popescu: for all you know, the cause and effect chain breaks down and the pistol jams BECAUSE you tied the cart to this arrangement
asciilifeform: and i see his respectability as wholly engineered and 'aged statesman' dowager crud.
mircea_popescu: this approach is so utterly naive as to rather call to mind britney spears.
mircea_popescu: well, not like you have to!
mircea_popescu: but the problem remains teh problem.
asciilifeform: the man was in a deeper sense an antiscientist than lysenko.
mircea_popescu: how so ?
asciilifeform: and connived to bring back vitalism.
mircea_popescu: einstein, same measure ?
mircea_popescu: but god doth not play dice ?
asciilifeform: where did e put in 'magical brain rays collapsing wavefunction'
asciilifeform: he did not.
mircea_popescu: right in there.
mircea_popescu: you forget or simplky dunno the ridiculous phase towards the end where he was refusing various bits of physics on the grounds that they insulted his religious notions ?
asciilifeform: quote me where einstein in his ~productive~ life privileged man.
asciilifeform: (as bohr did)
mircea_popescu: you just moved to scotsman argument.
asciilifeform: fine, in his entire body of work
mircea_popescu: you not familiar with the scandal where einstein wouldn't take the heisenberg uncertainity ?
asciilifeform: i am
asciilifeform: he was into 'clockwork world' aha.
mircea_popescu: and this is not meeting your standards ?
asciilifeform: it is precise opposite.
mircea_popescu: i do not follow.
asciilifeform: (he demanded a model that does not admit chance anywhere.)
mircea_popescu: and from this you infer that ?
asciilifeform: afaik at no point did e proclaim 'this physical system behaves differently when some human is looking at it'
mircea_popescu: human has nothing to do with this.
asciilifeform: an idiocy that ~ought~ to have gotten bohr into a productive and happy life of tractor-driving
asciilifeform: instead of physics
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you read, but human wasn't bohr's concern either.
asciilifeform: he had motherfucking 'sentient observers'
mircea_popescu: the point is that interaction changes a system and observation is not priviledged.
asciilifeform: actually he privileged observers (e.g., the man, but not the cat)
mircea_popescu: you'll hafta quote.
asciilifeform: bohr rather.
asciilifeform will have to come back to this.
mircea_popescu: sentient is in any case not the proper word. the point is that if observer future behaviour is modulated by the observation, this is one class of thing. such as is the man, or the cat. and if observer future behaviour is not so modulated, then this is another class of thing. such as a rock.
mircea_popescu: but this is a purely mental exercise, and of no particular physical relevancy, really.
asciilifeform: it is a dodge.
mircea_popescu: dodging what ?
asciilifeform: dodging the question of what ~actually~ happens.
mircea_popescu: nothing actually happens.
asciilifeform: in all previous physical theories, there is a solid reality presumed.
mircea_popescu: which goes directly to your "correct program for all electrically-possible inputs". there is never going to be a very interesting program which takes an ennumeralbe list of inputs. such is the sad fate of things.
mircea_popescu: yes, but this presumption is unwarranted.
asciilifeform: admitting mushmind idiocy is a poetteringization of physics.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: present-day state of the art in programs is closer to the arab 'insha'llah' ('allah's will drives atoms to do whatever the fuck they want, what is this science thing') than to anything else.
mircea_popescu: well sure.
asciilifeform: ~some measure of sanity~ is possible.
mircea_popescu: hey, there's no objection to your very valid criticisms in locus.
mircea_popescu: but they'll never build such a tower of babel as to actually touch the definitive-complete-actually-happens-clockwork.
asciilifeform: surely not.
mircea_popescu: so you're a vitalist and shame on you.
asciilifeform: but recall that prior to structural steel, a 6-story bldg that isn't a pyramid is a 'tower of babel'
asciilifeform: every bit as 'space lift tower' is today.
asciilifeform: all i propose is the 'structural steel.'
mircea_popescu: nah, roman insulae were as tall as 10-12 stories.
asciilifeform: worx so long as you don't put in cast-iron bathtubs, pianos...
asciilifeform: rome was lighter use case for structures.
mircea_popescu: well, hagia sofia still stands, and it carried gilded roof.
mircea_popescu: but yes, be it 6 and 12, whatever it is, still low.
asciilifeform: (roof cheats, can have buttresses, columns.)
mircea_popescu: latin really means "cheat"
mircea_popescu: certainlyt most of the people i cared to hang out over the years are stiff.
phf: problem with parsing urls is not regex or no regex, it's that you can't reliably parse a url without resorting to heuristics OR doing nlp on context. all ; , : ) are valid constituents of url path, query and fragment, so you can't know where url ends and context begins.
mircea_popescu: that's also a thing
asciilifeform: or could simply load it
asciilifeform: if not errorcode --> valid url....
mircea_popescu: what of dead links ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448936 << this is nonsense. people are born every day. yes, you won't be able to make the present crop regain their youth / live forever / be happy / bla bla. nor are these valid goals, outside of daydreaming.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448952 << the incentive for hearing that, notwithstanding whatever may have been said, is that the answer's ready and includes no actual effort.\
mircea_popescu: and you didn't getg the name wrong, un prophete.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448961 << that';s not the real issue. the really issue is that SELF is not a scalar, and you'd want it to be.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448966 << mno. it's because they're humble enough.
asciilifeform: same thing.
mircea_popescu: for the record, adults are by and large MUCH dumber than teenagers. which is why i will accept a shoddy seventeen year old to serve, but not a thirty-one year old were her ass gilded.
mircea_popescu: i've yet to meet a teen actually as dumb as the average adult. ignorant, sure, but that's something else.
asciilifeform: i thought it was the wrinkles ?
mircea_popescu: you'd think that, for the same reason you think all tyhe other things around this topic.
mircea_popescu: but no, i couldn't care less bout the wrinkles.
asciilifeform: actually i have certifiably nfi
asciilifeform: my scale-model mircea_popescu fails me.
asciilifeform: but waitasec
asciilifeform: since when do we give a flying fuck about 'average adult' ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448971 << mno. it's because the fella despises the huswife notions of valuation ; and knows enough about risk to understand wtf it ACTUALLY is, and has the experience of it to have verified such understanding. earlier's convo with polish econ guy related.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform since we're discussing people in general.
mircea_popescu: see as a forinstance, you ~think~ that going up to some angry looking black dudes propping a streetlight in the bad part of town and sticking them up with your bare hands is "insanely suicidal risk". this is exactly not how it fucking works, as drexl explains for your benefit, if you were paying attention.
asciilifeform: (who is drexl ?)
mircea_popescu: this guy, thinks he's a nigger. got a bad scar and missing eye.
asciilifeform: i burn with eagerness to follow this guru ?!
asciilifeform: can haz guru with 2 eyez?
mircea_popescu: ;;google "now i know i'm pretty, but i ain't as pretty as a couple of titties"
gribble: Drexl Spivey (Character) - Quotes - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0006549/quotes>; True Romance (1993) - Quotes - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108399/quotes>; Drexl Spivey - The Quentin Tarantino Archives: <http://wiki.tarantino.info/index.php/Drexl_Spivey>
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448987 << very many, actually. the least bothersome thing to a mp is another one.
asciilifeform: then who did mircea_popescu's friends ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1449148 ) in ?
mircea_popescu: and ftr, power verticals collapse BECAUSE of appearance of the mythical beast, not the other way.
asciilifeform: orcs ?
mircea_popescu: mps are the product of mps and nothing else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where were they in 1970s su then
asciilifeform: sleeping in the ground ? like cicada eggs ?
mircea_popescu: apparently - not there. i dunno, wasn't there myself.
mircea_popescu: and you have to appreciate, your particular notion of "living very long time" as summum bonum is not widely shared.
asciilifeform: actually this is not mine
asciilifeform: i did not say 'would like to live very long time!11' but only that 'not in a hurry to eat the luger yet'
asciilifeform: different thing.
asciilifeform: in point of fact i am on record as 'i dun need being 50 yo for anything.'
asciilifeform: on the other hand i recognize that the things i actually like (and consider vital) are very much not widely shared.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's very little competition going on. i have numerous memories of "teenagers trying to compete" throughout schooling - starting with say this girl in 3rd grade even. i never competed with anyone, wtf do i care.
asciilifeform: ok who killed mircea_popescu's chums then ?
asciilifeform: meteors ?
mircea_popescu: meteors, cancer, orcs, other ones, women, drinking, boredom...
mircea_popescu: what usually kills people ?
asciilifeform: (new logz broken ?)
asciilifeform: i will repeat it here, i suppose:
asciilifeform: wife says to drunken husband, 'every night you drink, drink, you never bring money home, you worthless piece of shit, go visit the cemetary - see how many gravestones say 'died of vodka.'..'
asciilifeform: husband goes off, actually goes to count.
asciilifeform: comes back, says,
asciilifeform: 'i counted, read the cards on the wreaths. said things like, 'from wife', 'from son', 'from mother-in-law' - but none said 'from vodka.' nobody died from vodka.'
mircea_popescu: i see it in teh new logz
asciilifeform: what am i doing wrong
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-08#1448998 << you know, if anyone actually cares, i had that book, and read it at the age (romanians did these super-glossy high value looking sf series for some reason, for a few years were the best physical item books avail in ro. http://www.endernews.com/images/covers/rom-1994-nemira.jpg << this one), but didn't think much of it. read to me like so much purple prose, some derp jacking off w
mircea_popescu: ith substititive fantasies, lots of that sort of crud floating around at the time. liked n. spinrad's alte americi and masinaria rock&roll way better.
mircea_popescu: actually, am i the only norman spinrad reader ?
asciilifeform: not only one.
asciilifeform: and i never liked 'ender'
asciilifeform: it is somehow pathologically american b00k.
mircea_popescu: (alte americi ie other americas was an anthology, street meet ; the lost continent ; world war last ; la vie continue)
asciilifeform: i was never able to pin down quite why
mircea_popescu: notably, he has the sex-fiend ex car salesman thing. guy predicted trump!
mircea_popescu: then again most people predicted trump.
asciilifeform: sheckley predicted the shit-future
asciilifeform: where nothing really changed.
asciilifeform: afaik the only one who did.
mircea_popescu: well... huxley neh ?
asciilifeform: nah huxley's world at least had sex and dope
asciilifeform: as a matter of course
asciilifeform: and satisfied sheeple
asciilifeform never thought much of huxley
asciilifeform: and iirc he got seriously hot&bothered thinkin' of '30s totalitarian inca empires.
asciilifeform: like 99% of the 'intellectualz' of his time.
asciilifeform: i find this as bitter a pill as mircea_popescu does rms.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: spelling of "breech" to "breach"
shinohai: np, unless that was a pun on Erik Voorhee's ass xD
jurov: mircea_popescu: is there any mpex mintenance going on?
mircea_popescu: jurov couldja ask the actual question plox ty.
jurov: set email
mircea_popescu: dpaste faster, ftr.
mircea_popescu: $voice mthreat
deedbot: $voice mthreat is not a command.
mircea_popescu: $up mthreat
deedbot: mthreat voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: mthreat were you talking to deedbot- with a - ?
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, basically. s.bbet is no longer available for trade ; shareholders will receive liquidation as calculated stated earlier ; f.mpif is also no longer available for trade ; it will be liquidated end of april.
jurov: and s.qntr?
mircea_popescu: nothing peculiar there.
jurov: mpex is not processing s.qntr orders, too
mircea_popescu: was soem delay but i see it did.
mircea_popescu: check ?
jurov: yes, it went through
mthreat: no just deedbot
mircea_popescu: mthreat weird.
mircea_popescu: trinque hey, various peeps complaining deedbot is ignoring their $up.
mircea_popescu: slow's kinda not good in that spot as it makes people think it dun work.
trinque: yep, I need to replace that box; it's straining under doing that and being a bitcoin node at the same time
trinque: mthreat: replies to me in about 12sec currently
trinque: isn't replying at all to you?
mthreat: trinque: it does for $up, but I don't know what command to send for the "verify" command
mthreat: trinque: i tried 'help', etc, can't find a help
trinque: oh, $v with the OTP
trinque: yes it does need a $help
mthreat: or a $verify alias to $v :)
trinque: I'm gonna poke the DC monday about moving to a box with moar cores, and will probably push some updates to the bot itself too then
mthreat: thanks, it works!
trinque: yw :)
mthreat: mircea_popescu: anyway, just a trip to the US. Went to the classic jet aircraft association conference, met bunch of jet pilots.
mthreat: and ate chipotle
mircea_popescu: is that the thing that makes you shit blood ?
mircea_popescu: it's $v btw. never was !verify eitehr, !v.
shinohai: mthreat and ate chipotle <<< hope you don't die of dysentery (tm)
mircea_popescu: 12 is nb tbh trinque
mthreat: no dysentery here, my gut is strong
mthreat: mircea_popescu: speaking of dysentery, we should get lunch soon
trinque: An I/O error occurred: undocumented reason (return code: 5).
trinque: SSL error queue is empty.
trinque: weird stuff
trinque: mthreat: ^
mthreat: trinque: sweet thanks
trinque: once more.
trinque: ok. built a binary and I have that being managed by runit
phf: for how much confusion the order switch creates, perhaps should allow for reversal, but i'd really like there to be one canonical way
trinque: fixed the barf with leading whitespace, and hooked the thing into runit.
trinque: $gettrust deedbot trinque
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 5 by 5 connections.
phf: i wrote a statemachine to manage bot state, but now connection doesn't want to croak :/
trinque: heh, fleanode will have a seizure any moment now
phf: oh i'm sure it's going to go down 5 minutes after i check in for the night
trinque must be getting sleepy, repeating himself
trinque: to bed
punkman: god morgen
shinohai: Guten Morgen, Herr punkman
mircea_popescu: mthreat lol sure.
mircea_popescu: phf croak != cloak
phf: i meant the first one
punkman: bought that Hario grinder yesterday, gotta wonder if the Engrish in the manual is not on purpose.
phf: i want to observe state transition (and timing) during fall over, to take it to a next step