Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-05 | 2016-03-07 → ↓
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 398.78, vol: 14818.59620292 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.739, vol: 8168.53208 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.0, vol: 45355.82363454 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 408.59049, vol: 61049.54870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 395.593, vol: 3988.1908336 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 397.030903, vol: 137.36785246 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 402.806764405
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00054986 = 29.0326 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/#comment-116709 << lose a kingdom, gain another, or how did that go.
assbot: I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SrkpdO )
assbot: Leaked Voicemails Show Donald Trump-Clinton Cozy With Liberal Media | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Srkqyc )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2623 @ 0.00054902 = 1.4401 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20891 @ 0.000549 = 11.4692 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 401379 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1820 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00055237 = 3.8114 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7755 @ 0.0005509 = 4.2722 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22239 @ 0.00055238 = 12.2844 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10639 @ 0.00055426 = 5.8968 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37261 @ 0.0005496 = 20.4786 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23365 @ 0.00054866 = 12.8194 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42000 @ 0.00055282 = 23.2184 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116712 << asciilifeform, mod6, jurov, PeterL, mircea_popescu, kakobrekla (in moderation, hopefully passes the bowels of mircea_popescu's wprexen soon)
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWvD4x )
ben_vulpes: if it's possible to confirm that the contents of `sig` corresponded to the *single* `addr` to which the block subsidy+fees (eg first transaction) pays out, i believe that the addidional `addr` header field could be omitted.
ben_vulpes: duh yeah `addr` field not necessary
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00055298 = 21.0409 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00055282 = 4.2844 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-capacity-nightmare-fees-reality/ << annals of "don't mention qntra whatever you do"
assbot: Bitcoin's Capacity Issues No 'Nightmare', But Higher Fees May Be New Reality - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1p8htrn )
ben_vulpes: unknown actor lol
ben_vulpes: i think that the above change would necessitate a new genesis block, as i suspect that difficulty is far too high for the hardware capable of hashing as described to generate a single block in any sort of reasonable time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00055128 = 8.5724 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423470 << trivially: an addr is valid if a coinbase some time fed it, and not otherwise. (in this hypothetical alt)
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 07:26:07; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
asciilifeform: want an addr, mine a block.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 08:49:19; ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67029 @ 0.00054915 = 36.809 BTC [-] {5}
asciilifeform: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 405.45, Best ask: 405.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 405.45, 24 hour volume: 43906.29639634, 24 hour low: 389.0, 24 hour high: 406.15, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: ^ usg says 'ty mp, have moar fine fresh printolade'
asciilifeform: 'got any moar of that sole known antiinflatronium you don't want? we'll buy!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72750 @ 0.00054749 = 39.8299 BTC [-] {7}
asciilifeform: ^ shouldn't mpex be denominated in gold pieces-of-eight now?!1111
asciilifeform: wb nubbins`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00054629 = 10.9804 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins` went and built a computer from parts
nubbins`: somewhat inexplicably, first time i've done so in my 34 years
asciilifeform: congrats! Z80 or 6502?
nubbins`: sadly, i went for the modern comforts of an i5 (i know)
nubbins`: but it was beterrn that and the 6502 for a while
nubbins`: between, even
nubbins`: it's a "work machine", so i'm more concerned about how it runs illustrator than how well it protects the private keys that aren't on it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16906 @ 0.00055082 = 9.3122 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: speaking of work, i have a large number of S.NSA t-shirts still taking up space in my basement
nubbins`: mircea_popescu the current lease on floor space expires April 30 2016; property will be considered to be abandoned if arrangements not made by that point
nubbins`: going on 2.5 years now
nubbins`: in retrospect, prob pulled the trigger a bit early on ordering tees
asciilifeform: i'd buy'em but money broke.
nubbins`: they're already paid for 8)
asciilifeform: dun work no moar.
asciilifeform: see yest. logz.
nubbins`: alf left the straight path to live the life of the boheme?
nubbins` wanders off to read
asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu divesting
assbot: 3 results for 'from:mircea_popescu divesting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+divesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0005535 = 11.5405 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 465 @ 0.00260635 = 1.212 BTC [+] {8}
jurov: !t m x.eur
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00257652 / 0.00262899 (1006 shares, 2.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259324 / 0.00262899 (2053 shares, 5.32 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10308 @ 0.0005535 = 5.7055 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00054568 = 29.0302 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
nubbins`: or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b130
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109650 @ 0.00054457 = 59.7121 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 12:59:16; nubbins`: or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
nubbins`: right, yeah
nubbins`: i "forgot" those
asciilifeform: ( easily 95+% of it all iirc )
nubbins`: easily actually a thing that's real too
asciilifeform: real vs what ?
nubbins`: made-up
nubbins`: (what other vs did you expect?!)
asciilifeform: i mean, if nubbins` thinks that mircea_popescu runs an arse-mouth system and buys own subscriptions, what does he pay divs from?
asciilifeform: gifts from god?
nubbins`: 6 vs half doz
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423412 << just so i can suggest appropriately, this is money you don't need/want for practical use?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 02:44:42; *: asciilifeform all ears for ideas re: on what to blow a modest (~10kusd) worth of coin while it is still worth something.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: didja catch up with the log?
nubbins`: yeah, more or less. everyone QQing about the fyootur
nubbins`: lords tossing themselves from the parapets
nubbins`: anguished wails of those who have lost hope
nubbins`: what i'm asking is if toilet paper is a good suggestion, or if a motorcycle is a good suggestion
nubbins`: there
asciilifeform: neither
nubbins`: 's a reaosnable variety of ways one could blow $10k
asciilifeform: didja miss the part where i refuse to give ANY of it to usg?
nubbins`: well your other option is to keep it
nubbins`: how else to ensure?
asciilifeform: it can't at any point become usd.
nubbins`: send it to 1bitcoineater.
asciilifeform: well question was re how to usefully burn it.
nubbins`: buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd.
asciilifeform: buy what?
nubbins`: guess you'll have to un-usefully burn it
asciilifeform: there is literally nothing to buy
nubbins`: buy some of my art books
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform had nfi >> you recall, we made a t-shirt design, he agreed to print for a very nice rate, ended up storing them for us.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ah right
mircea_popescu: nubbins` in honesty at this point i see ~0 chance we'll deliver in any sort of human timeframe, or for that matter have any use for 3 to 25 year old tshirts.
mircea_popescu: thanks for your kind help in the matter - feel free to distribute the remaining tees to whosoever you feel like and that'd be that.
nubbins`: understood. thanks for the work!
nubbins`: was not insignificant for our fledgling business at the time
asciilifeform still has a few sealed ones in crate
mircea_popescu: ah, even better then!
mircea_popescu: i don't even recall how many we ended up distributing, was it like 10% ? 25% ? 1% ?
thestringpuller: oh man i'm getting old.
thestringpuller just turned 28
nubbins`: i think something around 20-30% of them left my hands
mircea_popescu: oh, well then really - this is above industry average.
nubbins`: thestringpuller you're technically still a child at 28
nubbins`: mircea_popescu we've been moving the biz away from textile printing and towards paper/fine art printing
nubbins`: margins way better
nubbins`: storage easier
mircea_popescu: see what you did that
thestringpuller: nubbins`: oh well cool. i guess I'll just wait for the big 3-0
nubbins`: fucking up a t-shirt print = $6 wasted. fucking up a poster = $0.70 wasted
thestringpuller: nubbins`: lithography?
nubbins`: serigraphy, in fact
mircea_popescu: i see what you did thar*
nubbins`: flat stock is something people put on their wall & admire -- see "Imagine a game" bitcoin posters
thestringpuller: you must really like screen printing! lol
nubbins`: t-shirt is something people spill mustard on & get cum all over
mircea_popescu: i think he does!
nubbins`: indeed i do
assbot: A Whale and Other Disorders #4 / PINK EYE PRINT COMPANY ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCStii )
nubbins`: our latest tome
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00054386 = 30.7281 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: i eneded up framing that print you gave me as bonus when I ordered shirts
nubbins`: FTR i've been teaching myself hardcover bookbinding and TRB.book would have been gorgeous
nubbins`: thestringpuller can't quite recall the print
mircea_popescu: 18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
danielpbarron: nubbins`, how much to send me a couple of those shirts :)
thestringpuller: it has a cloud on one side and scissors in in the desert on another side
nubbins`: danielpbarron PM with mailing addy and i'll get a shipping quote
nubbins`: thestringpuller ahh yes, from pepa chan
nubbins`: she has a piece in book linked above
asciilifeform: 'On what grave, is carved the name of the self you lost?' -- from nubbins` link
nubbins`: for whom does the night paint the dawn?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423610 << why would i care what ~seller~ does with it.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 13:18:04; mircea_popescu: 18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
mircea_popescu: no idea.
asciilifeform: problem is that nobody's selling anything i need.
mircea_popescu: but - eulora copper. not only exact answer, but provably the only one.
nubbins`: no, problem is we don't know what you need because you're not telling us
nubbins` can't imagine alf in a department store
mircea_popescu: wait, the criteria is "buy something useful with bitcoin" && "seller may not give btc to usd" ?
mircea_popescu: my dear alf, not even cardano would qualify!
asciilifeform: dun need these for anything. i don't even own iron that could run eulora.
asciilifeform: and again no
mircea_popescu: maybe specifying the problem you're trying to solve would help.
asciilifeform: dont want to see usd.
mircea_popescu: so, "buy something useful with bitcoin - must be physical item or service that i can use"
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: waste it on shit
nubbins`: what odds
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, after night on a decade of empty posturing, has exactly no sort of useful anything on offer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16332 @ 0.00054385 = 8.8822 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: shit, sorry, "what odds" is a newfy-ism
asciilifeform: nubbins`: ~which~ shit
nubbins`: asciilifeform that's what i've been trying to ask you and you've been steadfastly not answering
asciilifeform: because that was my very puzzle!
nubbins`: "what can i buy" as a process of elimination isn't something i'm interested in participating in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4195 @ 0.00054361 = 2.2804 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: it's a good place to store money when it's not in use...
mircea_popescu: used to be, at any rate.
thestringpuller: only good thing to sell BTC for is fiat, but whats the point in that if your income 99% fiat
assbot: Instagram ... ( http://bit.ly/21Pu7MV )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, as far as i can tell, is right, and there is nothing to buy.
nubbins`: ^ my latest tome
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i won't sell for fiat because it gets taxed.
asciilifeform: scorched motherfucking earth.
thestringpuller: If you're paid in fiat why would you ever sell bitcoin at all?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: because it's going to 0?
thestringpuller: going to 0 as in game over? or going to 0 for a minute then we'll be back to $X price.
asciilifeform: the former.
asciilifeform: see log.
nubbins`: deal when we signed up was 0 or oo
nubbins`: we all knew it
nubbins`: asciilifeform there's always bullion
asciilifeform: who in wot sells it?
asciilifeform: IN MY WOT
asciilifeform: and i'm not interested in it being scanned in usg mail, either.
nubbins`: well that excludes ME from selling it to you
asciilifeform: or 'lost'.
asciilifeform: plus wtf do i need metal for.
nubbins` sent a $17,000 package via fedex last year
asciilifeform: would be again stuck with what useful thing to trade it for.
nubbins`: you need metal to convert btc-usd without notice
nubbins`: wait, you don't want usd or something
asciilifeform: metal gets waterfalled with usg paper gold.
nubbins`: too useful to pay rent or w/e
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i don't want any of my btc to feed usg.
nubbins`: you don't get to control what happens to it once it leaves your hands
asciilifeform: nubbins`: you don't get it.
nubbins`: apparently not
nubbins`: try actually explaining this time
asciilifeform: what i don't want is its motion to add to my detectable usg taxability in any way.
nubbins`: right.
nubbins`: so, obviously usg is reading this right now
asciilifeform: which is why i won't accept usd wires from people, etc.
asciilifeform: usg reads everything.
nubbins`: right
asciilifeform: recall kolhoz inmates refusing to plant?
asciilifeform: killing own livestock?
nubbins`: what broad categories of goods or services would you accept in return for your btc?
nubbins`: in a perfect world where the transfer of such goods or the provision of such services was able to take place in absolute secrect
nubbins`: within the bounds of credulity
nubbins`: take your time, i gotta shit
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: then why business as usual if bitcoin is dead?
asciilifeform: escape from my concentration camp, for one thing. But that costs 1000x what i have.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00054361 = 9.1598 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: BTC just failed, now what? << It seems business as usual tho...or is #b-a closing shop?
nubbins`: alf the absolutist
nubbins`: he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
nubbins`: w/ air support
nubbins` can't imagine the sort of mindset required to believe that the only two viable options for one's future are stasis or a $10mn windfall
nubbins`: but this may be a failing on my part
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2138 @ 0.00054842 = 1.1725 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOwNp )
assbot: Tibanne comments on So it was a Fee Event? And everyone was screaming and I was still confused. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJQT )
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJjK )
assbot: Oscar-Winning Star Wars Animator Admits He Took LSD While Working On Return Of The Jedi ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOTaX )
nubbins`: lule
nubbins`: shit article, don't click
nubbins`: but this quote is ok
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 07:15:37; *: ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
nubbins`: “I took LSD when I was working on ‘Return of the Jedi,’ and it’s fine. It was, like, very calming. And so I decided to go back to work. When I walked into the blue-screen stage, it was like, ‘Ahhh.’ I took way too much,”
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 10:43:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 12:29:48; asciilifeform: i'd buy'em but money broke.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423536 << obvious or not, not really the case. last i did something like this was when i said "100 is good enough" and people insisted on running up to 1k.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
mircea_popescu: and yes, i can readily credit myself retrospectively with saving bitcoin through that, but why even bother.
nubbins`: nihilism ftw
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping. <<< he's right
nubbins`: wait now.
nubbins`: alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
mircea_popescu: alf lives in a complicated world.
nubbins`: in fairness, i'd ship the box via canada post.
mircea_popescu: oh, why not bitcoin post ?
mircea_popescu: you quisling you.
nubbins`: no coverage in my area
mircea_popescu: aw shit. i forgot.
nubbins`: does virgin airlines take btc?
nubbins`: or just the outer space one
mircea_popescu: you could airdrop them from orbit on alf's house. seeing how he lives next door to obama's rural cousin #5460580, prolly give norad a good wake-up.
nubbins`: that would require entering US airspace, which is on my verboten list
nubbins`: ever since the nudie scans at the airports were deemed non-optional
thestringpuller: oh man what an interesting birthday.
thestringpuller: i figured node warfare would become a thing.
nubbins`: just imagine how interesting it'll be in two years
nubbins`: node warfare sort of is a thing already
thestringpuller has a feeling he will be depressed when reading upcoming s.bbet statement
nubbins`: just this upcoming one?!
nubbins`: man, you guys must've missed me
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423707 << definitely discussed. there is deliberately no simple way of refirmwaring the thing.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 13:48:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?
asciilifeform: so it's, at least without laboratory instruments, a once-per-device thing.
asciilifeform: (i would even use antifuse roms but they are NOT SOLD)
mircea_popescu: not the substance of the q as i see it.
mircea_popescu: will the thing be buildable by others on a v process.
asciilifeform: which then
asciilifeform: this is key.
assbot: TIFU by inquiring to Apple about iButt : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQddZ )
nubbins` commits seppuku
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423702 << i'm not interested in becoming an even poorer and lower peon in a shittier country. it's living-off-capital or death plox.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 13:44:29; nubbins`: he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
asciilifeform: this is referred to as 'breaking out of gravity well'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: reminds me of affluent guy who ends up in witness protection washing rental cars for a living
nubbins`: alf, i don't think you quite understand how few shittier countries exist than the one you're in
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah well for living off capital it helps having capital, and it helps even more (say H(N^2)) to be the kind of spirit that is helped by capital
mircea_popescu: usually evidenced by having the capital in the first place.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no shit
nubbins` flatly doesn't believe alf is "poor" in any reasonable sense of the word
asciilifeform: nubbins`: as poor as any wretch. work-a-day-eat-a-day poor.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: do you live off food stamps, or drink 40's on the stoop?
nubbins`: that's a function of how much you spend, not how much you make.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: understand what 'poor' means
thestringpuller: how many black people live within 300 yards of oyu?
nubbins`: thestringpuller he lives in DC
thestringpuller: how many people do crack on your street?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: at least 20
asciilifeform: how the hell would i know what dope my neighbours take ?
nubbins`: for alf, "poor" means he can't stop working permanently
asciilifeform: i don't take it with them.
asciilifeform: nubbins` has it.
nubbins`: that's a slave's definition
nubbins`: enjoy yr chains
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you should move to projects for a year an live like the actual slave negros.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: being a slave, it would be stepping outside of my competence to attempt the use of any other kind of definition.
nubbins` lols, makes masturbatory gesture
nubbins`: do go on
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the very poverty consists in the sort of things i do to ~not~ live 'in the projects', with roommates a la nubbins`, or eat recycled food, etc.
nubbins`: more realistic is that you're just fucking terrible with money
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's better to be a light skinned house-boy than to work the fields...
thestringpuller: you get to eat wholesome meals instead of chitlins
nubbins`: besides, i've sworn off roommates.
nubbins`: a temporary situation, no longer required
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i must wonder if you would still agree if you knew what i do to pay for the 'get to'.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc we had this thread. you paid off the house.
nubbins`: no b'y
nubbins`: $180k outstanding
asciilifeform: srsly could've sworn nubbins` paid off a house...
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: 's house is halfway there
nubbins`: could blank out the mortgage tomorrow, but dat capital gains tax.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: slavery is slavery, however i must admit house niggas were treated better than the outdoor field niggas.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423732 << does nubbins` know how taxation works in usaschwitz ?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 14:01:07; nubbins`: alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
nubbins`: prob similar to how it works here in canadia
asciilifeform: the way it works is that if i sold, e.g., 10k of coin, i get to give 4k to usg immediately.
asciilifeform: fuck that.
asciilifeform: i'd rather burn it.
nubbins`: uhhh.
nubbins`: 40%?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: why do you not launder money as to avoid taxation?
nubbins`: wait, btc is money in the USA, isn't it?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: could've sworn we had this thread.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: we have, but I think you overestimate the facilities required to execute such a plan...
nubbins` would get to give 1k to revenue canada if liquidating 10k of coin
asciilifeform: nubbins`: we have something called 'tax brackets' here.
nubbins`: we do here too, and capital gains are taxed at 11% across the board
asciilifeform: oh and if usg decides that you did not pay enough, you get charged double-triple post-facto.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if your rent is can be paid by money order, you can take bag of benjies and buy multiple US postal mondey orders...
thestringpuller: you can launder up to $1200 at a time no questions asked
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it is not.
asciilifeform: it is paid in electronic insta-tax usd.
asciilifeform: solely.
nubbins` sighs
nubbins`: without actual dollar figures these arguments are absolute fucking wankery
nubbins`: and smth tells me alf would find it vulgar to quantify these vagaries
thestringpuller: should be making "free asciilifeform" t-shirts and protesting the white house
asciilifeform: l0l you'd have to free the other 10 mil rapemeat caste folk.
asciilifeform: there is nothing particular about asciilifeform.
nubbins`: there's nothing particular about anyone, pre-action
thestringpuller: you are a unique snowflake asciilifeform
asciilifeform: where was mircea_popescu's forks photo
nubbins`: nothing particular about cluny macpherson until he invented the gas mask
nubbins`: (born 1879 st. john's twodogland, natch)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423721 << can hear more about this plox ??
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 13:56:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
asciilifeform: because i utterly don't get it
asciilifeform: the conn rst thing is because we're talking to strangerz and using idiot unauthed plaintext.
assbot: Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhV25 )
nubbins`: ^ home of inventor of gas mask
nubbins`: do a 180 and see the park where nubs plays frisbee and smokes dope
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the venetians had gas masks.
nubbins`: "modern" gas mask
nubbins`: first general-issue mask for british troops
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform think about it - decentralized, but no strangers ? how's this design supposed to even go ?
asciilifeform: strangers when-there-is-room.
asciilifeform: otherwise you talk to the other folks in your terror cell.
asciilifeform: gossip.
asciilifeform: (they - to theirs. etc)
mircea_popescu: right. so now, internet overlord decides to rst all conns that are trying to move block-sized items back and forth.
asciilifeform: how does he know you are moving block-sized item ?
mircea_popescu: you can break bitcoin w/o breaking the internet, which is a problem.
asciilifeform: all you have is a box spewing 512b packets at 100/sec.
asciilifeform: forever.
asciilifeform: or pick a number each hour.
asciilifeform: this is 1960s tech.
mircea_popescu: not currently made use of by teh bitcoin.
asciilifeform: we don't even have a currently.
mircea_popescu: lol point.
asciilifeform: discussing hypothetical new pistol.
mircea_popescu: so you want to have a proper meld here, gossipd-bitcoin
asciilifeform: it is what i've been quietly laying out, yes.
nubbins`: i'mma leave you guys to it
asciilifeform: parachute.
mircea_popescu: cheerios nubs.
nubbins`: anyone else wants NSA tees for cost of shipping, send me a line
asciilifeform: ;;later tell nubbins` how many can i get for 1btc.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: if you get them in one package, should prolly be "all of them", ie a crate. esp if no hurry.
asciilifeform: nubbins` packs well, it was a mondo crate last time
mircea_popescu: he does yeah.
mircea_popescu has no complaints at all re nubs subcontracting, aaa would hire again.
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 408.03, vol: 13949.55909627 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 408.982, vol: 7682.02106 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.92, vol: 42128.66710141 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 414.38523, vol: 62416.85380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 401.879, vol: 3457.6833331 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 395.964, vol: 256.64245295 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
shinohai: ;;more
gribble: 410.26856075
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for your own peace of mind : i would ~definitely~ support a beedog coin, irrespective of how cartel mining impasse is resolved or the eventual fate of current-bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: we needed a 2nd for a long time anyway, wtf is this ripple eth ltc doge bs.
asciilifeform: afaik there was not yet, to date, a from-scratch thing
asciilifeform: even as crackpottery
asciilifeform: everybody had chunks of rotting satoshade in there.
mircea_popescu: and there is a very good vp on the table. gossip + proper hashes and ciphers + correct pow + proper relay/mine design + + +
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ << well there was this, and then ATC failed around that time
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller indeed.
mircea_popescu: was a very instructive experiment.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it was straight satoshi with new genesis iirc.
thestringpuller: for next experiment: remove satoshi and his dope from the equation completely
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what i was trying to say is that no one, afaik, has ever proposed and implemented entirely novel mechanism.
asciilifeform: the one problem that i was not able to solve, now just as a decade ago when i started thinking about it, is 'initial allocation.' satoshi's solution, as can be seen now, was retarded.
asciilifeform: but afaik there is not a plausible alternative.
mircea_popescu: if mining works correctly (ie, as he naively intended it would) the initial allocation as designed is fine.
mircea_popescu: i'll put some boxes to it as a seed, whosoever wants to do the same can do the same and it can take it from there.
asciilifeform: well, he naively thought that nobody would throw $maxint at it.
mircea_popescu: that was at no point the problem.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin was fine, and would continue to be fine, as is, for any maxint.
mircea_popescu: the weakness in the pow and the poor mining/relayer design created perverse incentives not directly apparent in the design phase, however.
asciilifeform: this is so.
asciilifeform: but the 51% thing was apparent from beginning, it was even in the paper.
mircea_popescu: this is not a problem of scaling, even if it is a problem made apparent by scaling
mircea_popescu: lettuce not blame the bearer of bad news.
asciilifeform: did we ever do a thread on chiral miners ?
thestringpuller: ah this makes me wanna finish my fictional story about plutonium coin
mircea_popescu: !s chiral miners
assbot: 0 results for 'chiral miners' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chiral+miners
thestringpuller: a coin which requires nuclear power plants worth of energy to mine single blocks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this being, where you have two or more types of miners, who have inherently opposed interests
asciilifeform: perhaps we called it sexed miners
asciilifeform: i forget.
mircea_popescu: this is "pools under another name"
asciilifeform: how's that
mircea_popescu: ipso definition, individual women in any gendered species are in the pool of womanhood ; and respectively males.
asciilifeform: do wolf and deer make pools ?
asciilifeform: (i.e. come to agreement)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: alpha wolf kills all the other males and takes women for himself
mircea_popescu: the chief problem of human society is pool collusion in this view.
thestringpuller: or is that lions...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my notion was that bitcoin suffered from a ~game-theoretically~ poor design.
asciilifeform: in that there was no built-in incentive for defecting from a miner cartel.
mircea_popescu: males trying to get together to gangrape individual females ; females getting together trying to create wailer choruses to keep the male group at bay, everything we don't like about society reduces readily to "it's not made up of individuals", ie, poolmined.
asciilifeform: precisely.
asciilifeform: hence you need defection-incentive.
mircea_popescu: this is nonsense. you needn't balance the desire of syphilis to defect from syphilisdom by injecting my with tb ffs.
asciilifeform: picture that you were newcomen and built a cruddy steam engine.
mircea_popescu: so yes, bitcoin does suffer from game theoretical poor design, but this problem specifically can not be resolved by "adding another bug somewhere else, they'll cancel out".
asciilifeform: piston - came loose.
asciilifeform: ergo, engine came to equilibrium.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that margin-driven mining creates centralisation necessarily.
asciilifeform: but you do not want equilibrium.
asciilifeform: you want ~dynamic~ equilibrium.
mircea_popescu: trust me, unlike you that doesn't play, i ~created~ a homeostatic game world.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not 'bug somewhere else', but a payoff matrix that doesn't equilibrate at 'herd'
mircea_popescu: and i'm telling you, the solution to a broken knee is not to break an elbow.
mircea_popescu: well you'll have to be a lot more detailed then
asciilifeform: if had detail, we would be testing a proggy.
asciilifeform: rather than thinking.
asciilifeform: !s axelrod
assbot: 5 results for 'axelrod' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=axelrod
mircea_popescu: lemme say that schelling points exist PRECISELY because ~irrational~ behaviour is an UNDEFEATABLE solution to your matrix.
asciilifeform: !s prisoner's dilemma
assbot: 7 results for 'prisoner's dilemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=prisoner%27s+dilemma
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is a 'solution' in the sense that there is no exact pill against it, but is -ev for the player.
mircea_popescu: ie, humans have a very lengthy, selected ability to centralize against the possibility of a nice world.
asciilifeform: (i know of no system where random moves are reliably +ev)
mircea_popescu: you're kicking the can. -ev for the player +ev for the group, we're buiolding the soviets omfg fuckme
asciilifeform: anyway the original point stands, bitcoin had no fewer than ~3~ types of animal - miner, node, tx-er. and they were supposed to stay in racul, broasca si o stiuca
asciilifeform: but did not.
mircea_popescu: not so. bitcoin had 3 types of animal, minerS, nodes, owners. notwitstanding the very problematic weakness of nodes, the minerS unicellular molds merged in one major piece of dogvomit.
asciilifeform: isn't that what i just said ?
mircea_popescu: this is what most molds do under environmental stress - which is exactly what the environment was designed to do to them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, not exactly what you said :)
asciilifeform: or we can lift from a mircea_popescu article, 'Another aspect is that new blocks are mined by one group (miners) but have to be stored in perpetuity by another group (nodes). This creates a situation where X (users) pay Y (miners) to inconvenience Z (nodes), which is unsustainable not to mention sheer nonsense.'
mircea_popescu: purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ?
asciilifeform: what does this question mean ?
mircea_popescu: specifically what i mean - how about quantum money ? (yes sum X settled as Y in subgrapg S1, but as Z in subgraph S2. problem ?)
asciilifeform: not only is it not a problem, but it is not escapable
mircea_popescu: the [fundamentally centralzising] question of "tell me the one and only god-given truth as to ownership" dissolves in a cloud of acceptances.
mircea_popescu: ie, THEY think i paid you 5 btc, but THOSE OTHERS see that same 5 btc going to him. and well.. it's just how it is.
assbot: kyristor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OnKvZl )
mircea_popescu: this notion of money is disjunct enough from the commonly held to be scary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00054575 = 10.9969 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: the quantum spiked dildo eases in less painfully when you realize that the interfering electrons etc were ~always~ there under the newtoniana.
mircea_popescu: i don't expect this realisation to be within common reach.
mircea_popescu: "non-inflationary, non-traceable" suddenly means something very different.
asciilifeform: how much 'common reach' today for electrodynamics ?
asciilifeform: and money, as i stole from another mircea_popescu article, 'is a function of the forum'
asciilifeform: which means...
mircea_popescu: why do i always run into people nuttier than myself ?
mircea_popescu: you're supposed to be a stabilizing influence in my life, world! wtf is this!
asciilifeform: well for some reason you sent hanbot to turn over dumpsters in alleys and find'em. so here i am.
mircea_popescu: so basically, forking is +ev for participants until everyone's on his own chain. how does anyone transact this assperger coin ?
asciilifeform: it is +ev in the same sense as being hikikomori and starving to death is +ev.
asciilifeform: is it ?
mircea_popescu: apparently.
asciilifeform: for the folks for whom it is.
mircea_popescu: from a "critique of pure reason" standpoint, it is.
asciilifeform: fortunately the 'pure reason' folks are yet only a subset.
asciilifeform: and there are still people who get out of the house, cut steel pipes, etc.
mircea_popescu: so the option is "either create a money that drives a government, or else create a money that drives a crazy" ?
asciilifeform: somethinglikethat.
asciilifeform: what we have now is an ad-hoc (2), the exhaust heat from which drives (1).
mircea_popescu: ok, take the nonsense practically : there's A, as illustrated yesterday, the group of six nude ladies ; there's B, b-a. i hope you folks aren't nude atm ?
mircea_popescu: now - person X comes to me with a 5 BTC which he wants to spend on milk. B sees the 5 as valid ; A, as invalid. i know both A and B. does this mean i have to choose ?
asciilifeform: manually?!
mircea_popescu: not being a superposition of eigenstates myself, but a resolved one, i can't both credit and not credit the 5btc. would seem i have to choose one.
asciilifeform: well, gotta cut into detail. why, in this universe, does b see the 5 as valid, and a as invalid ?
asciilifeform: i.e. why do their ledgers differ to begin with ?
mircea_popescu: because B mined on the basis of the chain that it saw ; and A idem. there's no guarantee these would stay coherent, and so they didn';t.
mircea_popescu: now the chains are split.
asciilifeform: so when they meet, they reconcile the ledgers. and if one or more of the parties refuses to, they now have to march off into parallel worlds.
asciilifeform: and never transact.
mircea_popescu: why would they ever meet ? they're not meeting. ask your pet.
mircea_popescu: and why would they reconcile ever if they met ? have you seen nude women together before ?
asciilifeform: sorta like what happens today when mircea_popescu meets somebody who disagrees with him re: what 2+2 equals.
asciilifeform: by 'meet' i specifically mean 'have to agree on something'
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ? << how about quantum money ?
mircea_popescu: what did you think i meant ?
mircea_popescu: so why would it require they "agree" ?
asciilifeform: well, if we're going full-bore, the transaction takes two matrices and yields a third.
asciilifeform: rather than a scalar.
mircea_popescu: i dunno about your or anyone else's experience, but i personally have spent my entire life to date in the company of people whose takes were fundamentally irreconcilable. ever since a wee tyke doing double time between the upper crups exclusive school and the criminal underworld.
asciilifeform: and so now we have money for them.
mircea_popescu: so then. what do i do with the 5btc ?
asciilifeform: well, it's no longer 5btc scalar. it is now... [[5 0] [0 0]] or the like.
mircea_popescu: and you can not specify the bytesize of this item.
asciilifeform: can you specify bytesize of old btc tx ?
mircea_popescu: up to 1mb.
asciilifeform: and this also up to 1mb. if you like.
asciilifeform: which limits the size of the world, but nobody asked for an infinite world.
asciilifeform: (happily)
mircea_popescu: (notwithstanding all the idiots who "read" the code - it is there, specified. de facto, irrespective of intention, and besides the guy's intentions scarcely either made sense or made it into practice.)
asciilifeform: sure is.
mircea_popescu: so you're going to bake in a magic number which is the largest number of groups that may ever exist in anyone's view
mircea_popescu: or is it "in everyone's view" ?
asciilifeform: this is avoidable.
asciilifeform: there are files in existence larger than your hdd. this bothers you ?
asciilifeform: it does not bother me. if i need to create or receive such a thing, i buy moar disk. or tell the other fella 'make smaller files'
asciilifeform: it stands to reason that folks would have some incentive to collapse their coinmatrices to manageable size
asciilifeform: by reconciling groups when possible.
asciilifeform: and arbitrageurs would buy 'heavy' coin for 'light'.
asciilifeform dislikes 'magic numberz'.
mircea_popescu: perhaps. let us leave this very dark tunnel for now.
asciilifeform off to meatspace, unpacking fig trees from their winter tarps, bbl.
mircea_popescu: try another : every morning when i wake up now, i read the log. this, i like. if i were using your coin, every morning when i woke up, i would conceivably be greeted by a list of notifications : "group X has now split. in five. would you like to name the shards or ignore the shards, for each shard ?"
asciilifeform: ok we'll do this one.
asciilifeform: why would you ever do this ?
asciilifeform: does your linux box tell you 'your inode xxxx has split, would you like to ....... ' ?
mircea_popescu: because if biulbiul has an argument with fatme, i am still fucking both.
asciilifeform: but now you can. all that happens is that the matrices grow by a few bit.
mircea_popescu: ;;search biulbiul fatme
gribble: (search <word>) -- Searches for <word> in the current configuration variables.
mircea_popescu: ;;google biulbiul fatme
gribble: No matches found.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i'd have to constantly see this.
asciilifeform: ideally - never.
mircea_popescu: what are you, satoshi ? plox no dumbo.
asciilifeform: this is one of those things that will have to be built in a mechanical model, like maxwell's eq.
asciilifeform: to be the least bit convincing.
mircea_popescu: many questions remain, but the discussion has been interesting.
asciilifeform: !s from:asciilifeform scalar
assbot: 14 results for 'from:asciilifeform scalar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+scalar
asciilifeform: we already established that ~trust~ is not, in any reasonable model, a scalar.
asciilifeform: why should money be ?
mircea_popescu: not a question of ought, a question of is.
asciilifeform: well yes.
mircea_popescu: money IS. whether it'll ever be what it ought or not - welll, that's what engineers are for.
asciilifeform: why would we imagine (aside from our newtonian tunnel vision) that it ~is~ a scalar.
asciilifeform: was my question.
nubbins`: asciilifeform: indeed, you can get all of them and more for 1 btc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because convention. why do i imagine putting girl on knees is humiliating ?
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2014 04:36:33; asciilifeform: eventually people's brains will grow and they will stop thinking of market value as a scalar.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 02:35:36; asciilifeform: the notion of 'trustworthiness' as a scalar is fundamental to scamatrons of all stripes.
asciilifeform: and yes, convention. newton's laws also make fine convention. until they don't.
mircea_popescu: still do for most applications.
mircea_popescu: not a question to be handwaved away.
asciilifeform: as i think anyone living outside africa knows
asciilifeform: anyway bbl, there are trees.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00054754 = 10.5675 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11306 @ 0.00054518 = 6.1638 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway)
mircea_popescu: this is good for bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.0005441 = 13.5753 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12541 @ 0.00054323 = 6.8126 BTC [-] {4}
punkman: /me fixed toilet float with a toothpick
punkman: I wonder wtf the last guy used to secure the float's lever because it must have dissolved
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00054297 = 17.1036 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Chamber of Commerce ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXuZ6X )
shinohai: Enjoyed the Qntra story spin too BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: shinohai: ty, but it's not spin. It is measured outrage.
BingoBoingo: Seriously get a blog and practice.
BingoBoingo: !up linton_s_dawson
punkman: http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/ << "total network hashrate estimates around 1.2 TH/s" only two orders of magnitude off
assbot: Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXxgPz )
shinohai: I am slowly losing any interest in Bitcoin besides a medium for buying drugs.
thestringpuller: why can't we just have nice things...
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )
mod6 is finally caught up
mod6: interesting discussion today
thestringpuller: mod6: pm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.0005422 = 6.9944 BTC [-]
mod6: <+shinohai> prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway) << i lel'd.
BingoBoingo after much gnashing and wailing beginning to see remaining utility in BTC almost exclusively as bridge to what comes next
BingoBoingo: Whether next thing be beedog coin or arse wallet coin
mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
BingoBoingo: It seems to look like name for discussing attributes of hypothetical actual Coin
mod6: As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
mod6: I feel better about that.
BingoBoingo: Seriously. The initial shock was unnerving, but then again what the fuck else had all the things qntra'd about added up to.
BingoBoingo: Also exciting to se pogo dream may be resurrected.
mod6: I like the idea of possibly incorporating gossip into the mix.
BingoBoingo especially fond of potential to avoid getting locked into cpp-isms
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00054354 = 11.4143 BTC [+]
mod6: BingoBoingo: yah, this too
BingoBoingo: V-ified from actual completely gavin-free origin
BingoBoingo: So what if it takes 5-10 years to gain mass traction as opposed to the couple hours a hardfork crisis would resolve in
mod6: Sure.
BingoBoingo: brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
mod6: :]
mod6: asciilifeform: did you ever mention a de-facto ADA book?
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2015 04:28:49; asciilifeform: just got 'ada 95: the language, reference manual, and standard libraries' ansi/iso/iec-8652:1995 in the post
asciilifeform: mod6: the standard.
mod6: hey thanks
mod6: and as far as 'compilers', you suggest 'red dragon' as opposed to second edition 'purple dragon'?
asciilifeform: ok to get the 2012 or earlier (but not 1983)
mod6 mind-as-well round out the library
asciilifeform: dragon or appel
asciilifeform: i prefer dragon (red, with knight)
mod6: ok cool, first edition then.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
asciilifeform: i forget why.
asciilifeform: !s beedog
assbot: 3 results for 'beedog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=beedog
mod6 looks
mod6: yah.
thestringpuller: dragon book is a hard read...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00054376 = 5.6007 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: i also considered standard-ml
asciilifeform: instead of ada.
mod6: any particular reason(s)?
asciilifeform: in logz
asciilifeform: !s standard ml
assbot: 3 results for 'standard ml' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=standard+ml
mod6 reads
asciilifeform: i like that there is more than one implementation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00054376 = 4.3501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27708 @ 0.00054394 = 15.0715 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054478 = 20.8923 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b133
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00054289 = 8.4419 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424171 << lol what could we do that we can't do here..?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 19:56:34; mod6: now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
asciilifeform: i suppose we could sync onetimepads.
mod6: ah yeah this ^
mod6: but would be cool just to meet and get around and discuss these things infront of a blackboard or whatever.
mod6: i guess we can do all of this here.
mod6: but something to be said for all of us in same room.
asciilifeform was half-considering visiting mircea_popescu for tea one weekend, as he suggested last night
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32875 @ 0.00054289 = 17.8475 BTC [-]
mod6: ya, saw that and was thinking the same
asciilifeform: mod6: actually i admit that ~all of us~ in same room always made me a bit uneasy.
asciilifeform: phat target.
mircea_popescu: yeah, not exactly wise.
mod6: fair enough.
asciilifeform: various outfits - e.g. intel - forbid it to key folks.
asciilifeform: even usg used to have such a custom.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << bee-dog was originally a joke re very summary vision (because bees see large pixels and dogs don't see colors). see : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-02-2016#1413916
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 04:23:11; mircea_popescu: omfg alf sees the world like a bee-dog : in black and white and all pixelated.
mircea_popescu: somehow it became a term of endearment for alf and especially alfisms.
mod6: ah
mod6: thx
mircea_popescu: the joke being of course that any serious designer is exactly a bee-dog.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12483 @ 0.0005422 = 6.7683 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 18:41:13; mod6: As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 19:15:25; BingoBoingo: brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
mircea_popescu: anyway, the weather in b-a fixed itself, tis very pleasant, the steaks still here, by all means.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i must confess i don't get the latest qntra. wut ?
BingoBoingo: Entering into the record the end of pretending US minor socialist party is a thing.
mircea_popescu: but i mean.. what shooting ? what ?
BingoBoingo: shooting?
BingoBoingo: Oh 2nd most recent, the san bernadino ISIS derps
assbot: Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1YjCjQ7 )
BingoBoingo: mundane case of guy and his wife shooting up their workplace
BingoBoingo: Why be another allah snackbar weather event when one has a plague to spread is the point?
mircea_popescu: kinda bizarre.
BingoBoingo: California, bizarre by definition
BingoBoingo: Supposedly they are getting a 100 inches of snow soon. Can't fall into the ocean soon enough
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 13:47:13; nubbins`: but this may be a failing on my part
asciilifeform: !s yoga master
assbot: 1 results for 'yoga master' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yoga+master
asciilifeform: 'gotta start small!111'
nubbins`: asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
assbot: OSX.KeRanger.A malware in 2.90? - Transmission ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5AXa )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16126 @ 0.00054229 = 8.745 BTC [+]
assbot: New OS X Ransomware KeRanger Infected Transmission BitTorrent Client Installer - Palo Alto Networks BlogPalo Alto Networks Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5HCf )
nubbins`: lule
nubbins`: that's up there with linux mint serving up bogus ISOs
nubbins`: "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
assbot: Polisan Boya San. ve Tic. A.S.: Private Company Information - Businessweek ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC6iUo )
nubbins`: which prob had a developer account for pushing bespoke apps to company handsets
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 21:29:36; nubbins`: asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 21:38:23; nubbins`: "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423761 << nubbins` will be pleased to learn that this is pet's favourite 'ever' thing from the logz.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2016 14:06:31; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14599 @ 0.00054221 = 7.9157 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116719 << sig(digest, pkey). this does nothing for the transacting protocol, but ensures that the device that mined a block /also/ has the privkey for the block subsidy.
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYjVgd )
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd. << indeed
nubbins` was "ios developer" for short stint, earned a free ipad from sales of app
nubbins`: !up CrazyTruthYakDDS
nubbins`: wow, i've been an ebay member since 1999
assbot: KLYEMAX T-Shirt Fundraiser ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvB2jG )
nubbins`: "really proud of klye for [selling t-shirts calling himself a fuckup in an attempt to recoup blistering losses from an earlier scam]"
nubbins`: fuck this planet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.0005433 = 21.895 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054211 = 19.4617 BTC [-] {4}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Ransomware Comes To OSX Bittorrent Client - http://qntra.net/2016/03/ransomware-comes-to-osx-bittorrent-client/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.0005439 = 6.3658 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32608 @ 0.00054531 = 17.7815 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84475 @ 0.00054571 = 46.0989 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00054572 = 21.8288 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: "Using 21's bitnodes service, we determined that 1037 classic nodes are hosted using Amazon's AWS. "
mircea_popescu: the two buck bitcoin fork.,
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
mircea_popescu: check it out - someone is using lisp for something!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40114 @ 0.0005453 = 21.8742 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00054519 = 23.0615 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Trilema] The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054299 = 22.154 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.0005421 = 37.5133 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: TIL eulora reached homeostasis? LOL
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 00:45:43; mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
asciilifeform: but i have nfi what it does...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.0005421 = 15.233 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: it sometimes crashes, of course :D
jurov: but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?
jurov: that would be some bedrock
jurov: because on C mechine, succumbing to various kinds of magic colored pointer unions is practical necessity.. so ada type safety should help
jurov: !up p15
nubbins`: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case upon reading the article and was baffled as to why it took so long for someone to mention.
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.85477620 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b134
nubbins`: <mircea_popescu> does this come with an absolute guarantee that i am not responsible for anything past raw tx, and if it never gets included, bettor is out the money, because i will not under any circumstances repay it ? << lel better not stick with 0-fee tx if you're gonna go that route.
nubbins`: "bitbet, where payouts are literally the lowest priority"
nubbins`: "bitbet, where we don't have nine cents to spare"
nubbins`: whoever constructed A1 should be relieved of their duties
danielpbarron: fee is not required if inputs are sufficiently old enough, which in this case they appear to have been
nubbins`: sure, if the mempool hadn't been olympic sized
nubbins`: nexus pass is not required if there's no lineup at the airport
nubbins`: still gotta fight through the crowds to get to the gate
nubbins`: if you're traveling on xmas
danielpbarron: i guess this falls into the "well what the heck is the protocol, oh right there isn't one" category. How do you know a miner will choose a high fee tx over a high priority tx?
nubbins`: you know after the fact, it turns out
jurov: cuz satoshi coded it so?
jurov: and miners haven't touched it?
jurov: is that tooo far fetched notion?
nubbins`: if there's only so much space in a block for 0-fee tx's, and the mempool is overflowing, obviously it's gonna take days for your 0-fee tx to get put into a block, even if everyone knows about it
nubbins`: and since it's in the queue, you can make as many As as you like
nubbins`: Aoo, even
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYAbOv )
nubbins`: all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats
jurov: !t m x.eur
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00256252 / 0.00259952 / 0.00262899 (553 shares, 1.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259055 / 0.00262899 (1903 shares, 4.93 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
nubbins`: a 0-fee tx during a mempool flood is like expecting to hitch a free ride from turkey to macedonia
jurov: ;;calc 1/0.00370358
gribble: 270.009018301
jurov: whotf puts these asks on x.eur
danielpbarron: i don't see how a "mempool flood" should effect a high priority transaction.. or was the flooder sophisticated enough to have created all the inputs long ago so that they too would be high priority?
jurov: mkay, flipped. this ersatz marketmaking is quite ejoyable
nubbins`: listen, i'm a high priority customer at Mr. Rooter
nubbins`: but if three other high priority taco lovers clog their toilets first, i'm waiting in line
jurov: <ad break>You could have got x.eur from me with only 2% fee over vwap and flipped them at these insane prices!</ad>
danielpbarron: jurov, how to do that? ask you here?
jurov: i am accepting transferwise
danielpbarron: ah actual euros
jurov: for wot members
jurov: yes, send me 102 euros, get 100 x.eur
danielpbarron: well it's pretty obvious to me what caused the insane prices. "divestment"
nubbins`: or, y'know, a cartel blowing their cover by fucking with bitbet payouts.
nubbins`: SEEMS JUST AS LIKELY.
danielpbarron: not people who want euros, so much as they ~don't want~ bitcoin, and don't want to touch actual fiat
jurov: lmao. but they could have pestered davout to get much better price from his bot instead
nubbins`: i feel bad carrying on but this is seriously the highest lelevator i've ever been in
nubbins`: i cannot see the ground!
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case << because it's neither obvious nor the case.
assbot: A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
nubbins`: how ya figure, because the logic doesn't follow
nubbins`: ("you don't get to say what the logic is! &c")
mircea_popescu: but congrats on being the nth lazy thinker who has a simple theory in his head, cut ~80% of the facts or so that fit it, and is ready to reddit about the matter.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it'll bring greatness to canada or w/e.
nubbins`: you're sniffing glue if you think a cartel withholding bitbet payouts is the simplest explanation
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats << except the part where these nodes would also advertise it, which they didn't do. and except for the part where nodes that keep txn forever are am yth. and except for anything actually to do with reality, as opposed to some cartoon someone saw last year on tedspeak or w/e.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` we had this thread. make your own theory, CROSSING ALL THE POINTS.
nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
mircea_popescu: as opposed to "here is what i opine - i know all about huffing glue because, practically speaking, it's what i do all day".
nubbins`: accepting but not advertising them -- isn't
nubbins`: and nodes don't have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.
mircea_popescu: the facts are there, write your explanation for them and spare me.
mircea_popescu: we're talking about ~8 days.
nubbins`: yes, 4 tx's over 8 days
nubbins`: ;;calc 8/4
mircea_popescu: so a1 blocked a2, then a2 blocked a3 then a3 blocked a4 ?
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: jesus
nubbins`: use your reading comprehension skills
mircea_popescu: so a1 blocked a2, 3 and 4 because it sat in pool for 8 days because reasons ?
nubbins`: a1 blocked a2
nubbins`: then a1 blocked a3
nubbins`: then a1 blocked a4
mircea_popescu: because a1 was still around 4 days later ? whyssat ?
nubbins`: because there was a lineup for the cheap seats because of the mempool flood
mircea_popescu: that made no sense. try again using meaningful words this time.
nubbins`: you try again
nubbins`: like talking to a bag of hammers
mircea_popescu: apparently the way the internet works [according to idiots] is that one guy that knows about things by virtue of being one of the guys that actually do things describes some facts, and is now obliged to entertain the half-baked idiocy of any random opiner.
nubbins`: ^ stopped reading after "according"
mircea_popescu: whatever. keep your ideas, i don't want them nor do they carry any value.
nubbins`: do you suppose maybe there were other 0-fee high priority transactions floating around at that time? hmm? check out a graph of the mempool size
mircea_popescu: dude... seriously, stick to printing or w/e it is you understand.
nubbins`: i like how when you run out of logical rebuttals it's all "dude" and "srsly, just w/e"
nubbins`: try another one!
mircea_popescu: there's no "logical rebuttal". you have some facts, go write a theory. maybe i'll bother reading it. seeing who it comes from, probably not. that's all.
nubbins`: "no, you don't get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"
nubbins`: lel, "go write a theory"
nubbins`: sturles wrote it
nubbins`: i tried putting it in simplified english for you, but it didn't take
nubbins`: no big surprise
nubbins`: or, y'know, bitcoin is dead because a chinese mining cartel is selectively blocking BITBET PAYOUTS.
nubbins`: occam weeps
nubbins`: bbl i need a drink
mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
mircea_popescu: !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b8271fc2324071f8
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.nubbins`.-1:2f86f1e0d27e296c65d393c3735b6596cc002265d63e3fc387f97968b5b46f24
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
mircea_popescu: you'll be on my ignore list. if you actually have something to say find a lord to play telephone, but ideally spare me.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054113 = 18.0196 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: that escalated quickly
mircea_popescu: if i wanted to talk to redditards i'd make a reddit account.
nubbins`: behold your king!
jurov: So, w're back to mp and alf being 80% i guess.
nubbins`: sorry guys, anyone who thinks MP's explanation makes more sense needs their head checked at a trauma hospital
mircea_popescu: plenty o' room for idea guys all over the webs.
nubbins`: seems pretty obvious that in a huge backlog of transactions, one of them is going to be the lowest priority
nubbins`: aaaand ftr i meant what i said about being relieved of duties, imagine sending a 17btc tx out into the wild and then /sending the same amount of money again from a different address/
nubbins`: if ever there was an indication that mp stopped giving a fuck about anything but spending the usd he cashed his btc out into, this is it
nubbins`: anyway. peace. asciilifeform feel free to leave your particulars with gribble for me
mircea_popescu: in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/ is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats.
assbot: BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.87 B (38%) on Yes, 1.42 B (62%) on No | closed 3 days 3 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweIc2 )
mircea_popescu: is there a good source to document how you convert from these ?
jurov: doh, they are incredibly slow.. there is "allocation of seats" link but they have not done it yet.
mircea_popescu: alrighty. so then it waits.
assbot: BitBet - Mariano Rajoy to remain PM of Spain after December Election :: 0.21 B (78%) on Yes, 0.06 B (22%) on No | closed 2 months 3 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweQIw )
mircea_popescu: believe it or not IN FUCKING MARCH the spanyards do not yet rightly know whether that fucktard won or not the december election.
trinque settles in to catch up on a weekend of l0gz
jurov: trinque: prepare several buckets of popcorn
BingoBoingo: and gnashing and wailing, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Also touch of denial mixed in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00054054 = 12.054 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35351 @ 0.00054005 = 19.0913 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: mircea_popescu: to mpex pls
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