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← 2015-11-27 | 2015-11-29 → ↓
BingoBoingo: !up gabrielradio
BingoBoingo prolly going to write a still more explicit qntra style guide this weekend
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market buttstamp
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 356.81, Best ask: 356.86, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 356.96, 24 hour volume: 13739.54739798, 24 hour low: 349.47, 24 hour high: 364.8, 24 hour vwap: 358.009611894
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9861 @ 0.00050901 = 5.0193 BTC [+] {2}
gabrielradio: !rate jurov 3 everything went smooth on CoinBr.com
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6bbebe53765e72ab
gabrielradio: !v assbot:gabrielradio.rate.jurov.3:64eb9735a730aa398969fbe1f0fe883595795057c54bcebd16fb0bb0122f0039
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 3 for jurov with note: everything went smooth on CoinBr.com
chatquack shivers
gabrielradio: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2015#1332193 << that looks like a challenge. i'll be on it!
assbot: Logged on 26-11-2015 19:01:55; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell gabrielradio. didja catch the 'don quixote' jazz on contravex ? anyways, here's a dramatical script if you're feeling ambitious : http://trilema.com/2012/sorana-comedie-bufa-intr-un-act/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8481 @ 0.00050154 = 4.2536 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Dear Customer, lease see the below important updates on our services.
mircea_popescu: On the 19th of October 2015 we notified you of changes to our payment gateway service. We regret to announce that on Monday the 30th of November we will be rolling back these changes and the new "WorldPay" option will no longer be available. All of our previous payment options,with the exception of Payza will remain available. "
mircea_popescu: straight from horse's mouth (internet.bs). no idea if actually worth some research
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9870 @ 0.00050154 = 4.9502 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: heh, two things about sorana, the comedy : a) i think i wrote about a dozen words. the rest is simply taken from "leaked" romanian-nsa phone intercepts (strictly illegal to have those, and even illegal-er to leak them seeing how the trial was ongoing. but...)
mircea_popescu: b) it ain't fucking translatable.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the intercepts were from "a dangerous ring of underage prostitute traffickers". who turned out to be indescribably dude-next-door sorta warm, cozy, familiar situation.
mircea_popescu: !up benkay
benkay: fire freenode when
benkay: what needs doing - ircds on boxen and that's it?
benkay naive to downside implications of leaving freenode a smoking crater
mircea_popescu: gossipd.
benkay: some solution.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00049467 = 6.2328 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5852 @ 0.00049552 = 2.8998 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00050134 = 7.9212 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00050183 = 2.3837 BTC [+]
trinque: !up indiancandy1
indiancandy1: does anyone no
indiancandy1: anything about diito music
indiancandy1: are they a reliable source
trinque: I haven't heard much discussion of music distribution here.
trinque: seems like a dying/dead business
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4157 @ 0.00049921 = 2.0752 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00049466 = 2.7419 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8528 @ 0.0005019 = 4.2802 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00049499 = 8.1426 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14050 @ 0.00049857 = 7.0049 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12450 @ 0.00049466 = 6.1585 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19950 @ 0.00050181 = 10.0111 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00049745 = 1.7659 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00049745 = 4.6263 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00049924 = 7.3638 BTC [+]
jurov: soo. i have managed to get MEM_LIVE to decrease by replacing mapNextTx.clear() by mapNextTx.erase(mapNextTx.begin(),mapNextTx.end())
jurov: though, I'm now not sure clear() did it either, because i looked at MEM_TOTAL at first lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00049466 = 4.3035 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00049924 = 4.0438 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13937 @ 0.00049466 = 6.8941 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00049924 = 2.2715 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00049792 = 4.1327 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00049609 = 4.1672 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jurov does this mechanism do anything about fragmentation ? notrly huh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00049466 = 4.1304 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and unrelatedly, omfg busta rhymes is the best black people act since aretha franklin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00049466 = 7.964 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4519 @ 0.00049789 = 2.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00049792 = 3.2365 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5931 @ 0.00049995 = 2.9652 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13150 @ 0.00049466 = 6.5048 BTC [-]
shinohai: reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3uigpd/peter_todd_remember_how_we_discussed_adding/ <<< Is Peter Todd insane ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.00049466 = 10.2147 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: he's been an outlier throughout. not more or less insane than the average for that place.
shinohai: After reading the comments, it appears to be collective insanity. I don't run core anymore anyway but bolting on tor kills it.
shinohai: Dear Gawd
mircea_popescu: funny how "everyone" pretends tor is actually somehow a thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose best link http://trilema.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/ for this year's crop of dexx's
assbot: Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Te2i8l )
mircea_popescu: "That contrary to planted disinformation of which the Guardian article is a fine example, the NSA has complete and unlimited, instantaneous access to any and all information passed through the TOR network in its entirety, as a matter of course and by design."
mircea_popescu: what's it been, ONLY two full years ? still carrying on with it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19609 @ 0.00050171 = 9.838 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00050223 = 7.4079 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1332830 << the proper test of this is to jettison ~whole~ mempool in a running node and demonstrate that not only not crashes, but consistent operation from that point forward
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 11:37:16; jurov: soo. i have managed to get MEM_LIVE to decrease by replacing mapNextTx.clear() by mapNextTx.erase(mapNextTx.begin(),mapNextTx.end())
ascii_field: (this was the purpose of my - failed - experiment)
mircea_popescu: well... "consistent" at any rate.
ascii_field: well there are a few gotchas, think about it - potentially a tx that is in the receive queue could turn bastard when pool is flushed
ascii_field: and, as mircea_popescu mentioned earlier, there is also the problem of fragging, which none of this even begins to deal with, nor is anything like a clean/simple solution to it known to me
mircea_popescu: seems if you flush, you flush the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: mempool must be replaced with ring buffer.
mircea_popescu: and i am almost persuaded by now that the notion of chained tx must be done away with.
mircea_popescu: "no transaction may be included in mempool if it has ANY predecessors that have not been already mined"
mircea_popescu: i see why they wanted to pretend, but it is fundamentally contrary to design goals.
mircea_popescu: an easement we can no longer carry forward
ascii_field: this would handily cure the ailment described last night.
mircea_popescu: i've been mulling it for months now, but there's no way out.
ascii_field wanted to suggest it originally but mircea_popescu was on a long 'this is your motherfucking grandfather's pistol and hands off' kick
mircea_popescu: i still am.
mircea_popescu: notably, this would do nothing to break the protocol. how nodes handle their mempool is really their own problem.
ascii_field: didntcha always wonder why tx deletion had to be O(N) ?!
ascii_field: i always thought this was a wtf.
mircea_popescu: i never wondered, i wept.
mircea_popescu: someone would have benefited immensely from a decent class in data structures.
mircea_popescu: of course, there's a 2nd layer of problems : had the code been neatly written by someone obviously clueful as to the fundamentals of computer programming, would we have believed.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: in what way is the rotten mess 'easier to believe' ?
mircea_popescu: seems easier to believe a lone wolf is dumb than clever.
mircea_popescu: "whenever you do a murder, you make 25 mistakes ; if you remember five of them afterwards you're lucky."
mircea_popescu: of course, back illo tempore any class on crypto necessarily begun with a "data structures" prior years earlier.
ascii_field: this may be edging into rms&gcc territory, but the inscrutability of the turd did its part in keeping the original net from forking to death - by ensuring that all of the forks were retarded 'swap the genesis' rather than any serious improvement of the compatibility-breaking kind
mircea_popescu: grandfather pistol.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1332891 << even in the heathen lands, datastructures was a mandatory class in school
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 16:30:41; mircea_popescu: of course, back illo tempore any class on crypto necessarily begun with a "data structures" prior years earlier.
ascii_field: at least when i was there.
ascii_field: one of the gnarliest of the req'd courses, even
mircea_popescu: anyway, my data seems to suggest that the enemy will be pushing a fork before the decade's out. whether we at that time have a counterfork ready or not is pretty much what decides the fate of the free world.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: enemy has pushed fork after fork, no ?
ascii_field: or we are speaking of some great wunderwaffen with actual planning & thought behind it
mircea_popescu: less thought, more money.
ascii_field: taxcoin!
mircea_popescu: nah, just... take global warming.
ascii_field: took'em a good while to glue all the envirowhiner sects into one juggernaut, aha
mircea_popescu: so far all the efforts went more in the line of the earlierly discussed tor : nobody uses it but we keep pretending yet the propaganda machine's in place,
ascii_field: the plankton - uses.
ascii_field: in both cases.
ascii_field: and usg is, after all, mainly a plankton filter feeder
mircea_popescu: the plankton doth not matter, either.
ascii_field: to whale - matters.
mircea_popescu: notrly, even to whale. gotta appreciate : if the niche exists, the plankton also exists.
mircea_popescu: it has no option whatsoever.
ascii_field: and also i'm curious re: what is 'counterfork'
ascii_field: presumably, not classic grandfather's flintlock pistol btc ?
mircea_popescu: socialists, of which the usg is just an implementation, lose through there existing alternative. all that's needed really.
ascii_field: ^ much this
mircea_popescu: well i don't even know yet. vaguely defined, "a btc that won't give my computer hives"
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a btc with ringbuffer mempool, with the aforediscussed scoring mechanism for discounting txn, with encrypted connections and using any port is probablty good enough. hard to tell.
mircea_popescu: even "pogo-ready btc" might be good enough. definitely WOULD have been good enough, in 2015.
mircea_popescu: but we're missing this window.
ascii_field: if anyone asked me, i would answer 'a btc de-usgized from the minerals up', which means not only silicon but a non-ecc cryptosig, and a number of other refinements
mircea_popescu: this is a large part of why nobody's asking you.
mircea_popescu: you ever played civ ?
ascii_field began and ended with civ1
mircea_popescu: were you the derpy sort of player that never built a phalanx ?
mircea_popescu: then threw a fit when random barbarian landed and took your wonders ?
mircea_popescu: so then why are you doing it here!
mircea_popescu: minerals my foot. ain't nobody got time for that.
ascii_field: i had the motherfucking 'play with barbarians' patch
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'encrypted connection' item necessarily reduces to gossipd
ascii_field: (crypto without authentication and authentication without wot is of the heathens)
mircea_popescu: and while at it, new, pure-rsa signature scheme.
ascii_field: didn't i say?
mircea_popescu: anyway. whole raft of things that could go in.
ascii_field: 'non-ecc cryptosig'
mircea_popescu: for some reason i read that as ram parity check something-or-the-other.
mircea_popescu: this will actually almost certainly be in there. gotta hurt the enemy not just in the matter at hand but across the field.
mircea_popescu: imagine, having to either a) ignore the matter or b) make a point that the evil people are not-using its beloved shitscheme!
mircea_popescu: the stuff of imperial nightmares.
mircea_popescu: but so far we don't even know if we actually want rsa (this for lack of gossipd) nor have we studied shoup etc.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: l0l, think the thing is a hog now ? try with shoup
ascii_field: but for all i know, shoup is the only working scheme and the correct maximum of tx carrying capacity ~is~ 1% of what it is now
mircea_popescu: there's good reasons and bad reasons to be a hog.
mircea_popescu: (leaving to reader's discretion which of the two this exemplifies)
ascii_field: i'd even go as far as to suggest the use of lamport signatures
ascii_field: but i will explain it when 'somebody asked'
ascii_field: (there are upsides! to 'nobody asked')
mircea_popescu: ofcoursethereare
mircea_popescu: "Although the potential development of quantum computers threatens the security of many common forms of cryptography such as RSA, "
mircea_popescu: wikipedia has knowings to dispense!
ascii_field: moar pediwik
mircea_popescu: !s shoup
assbot: 12 results for 'shoup' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shoup
mircea_popescu: oddly, a dozen mentions, no discussion.
ascii_field: strange
mircea_popescu: let us indulge then. cramer-shoup is an asym key system, just like rsa or ecc.
ascii_field: could've sworn we worked out some of the basics here
mircea_popescu: it however was not only the first but to date the only afaik scheme that's secure against acca. provedly so.
ascii_field: iirc some of the lattice schemes likewise
mircea_popescu: (acca/cca2 = adaptive chosen cyphertext. it's an attack where you sort the cyphertexts in a tree, then send them to be decrypted
mircea_popescu: eventually managing to obtain the key through the interplay of your selection and weakness of the cryptosystem)
ascii_field: is it just me or is the very possibility of acca dependent on retardation in implementation ??
mircea_popescu: well of course.
ascii_field: which is kinda why i never saw this particular attribute of an asymmetric cipher especially interesting
ascii_field: tards can ruin anything, regardless of how mathematically structured
mircea_popescu: nobody did, until the late 90s
ascii_field: when tard stampede, aha
ascii_field: and 'ssl
ascii_field: ' et al
mircea_popescu: first time ssl broke down,
mircea_popescu: a few years after its introduction to "forever fix" the nonsensical problem of "turning a stateless protocol into a stateful connection"
ascii_field: when folks start to attempt decryption of whatever piece of shit, just for the asking - then yes, acca
mircea_popescu: ascii_field your gossipd node is stuck doing a version of this.
ascii_field: because - elementarily - no answer
ascii_field: enemy has no way of learning anything from the attempted decrypt
ascii_field: if node is build correctly.
mircea_popescu: "no way" is going far.
ascii_field: no way.
ascii_field: which - yes - means that time quanta are fixed
mircea_popescu: suppose you build a node. your node "doesn't answer", but it DOES publish the relayed txn somewhere.
ascii_field: then i'm a tard and please shoot me ?
ascii_field: because this is elementary
mircea_popescu: how the fuck else would you make the node ?
ascii_field: it never relays plaintext anything
ascii_field: and saturates channel
mircea_popescu: no , no look.
mircea_popescu: you operate node A.
mircea_popescu: I operate node M.
mircea_popescu: these nodes talk, as properly.
mircea_popescu: node m connects to A, sends garbage. if A manages to decrypt it, M will see it.
mircea_popescu: if A does not, M will not.
mircea_popescu: A M-m tandem works to attack A.
ascii_field: only if the relayed packet travels plaintext
ascii_field: or otherwise readable to attacker
mircea_popescu: M-m tandem.
ascii_field: otherwise he does not know if a particular packet got decrypted & relayed
ascii_field: because the channel is saturated at all times.
mircea_popescu: M and m work together!
ascii_field: if time invariants are held to, this reduces to key bruteforcing
mircea_popescu: maybe. the matter has to be properly analyzed for all other schemes
mircea_popescu: than c-s.
ascii_field: normally, acca relies on sidechannels (e.g., karatsuba mult. timing)
mircea_popescu: where we know it does reduce to key bruteforcing.
mircea_popescu: not necessarily. the original attack on ssl didn't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31787 @ 0.00050414 = 16.0251 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: it relied onf pkcs being a pos.
ascii_field: aha, rsa homomorphism diddle
ascii_field: incidentally, i am not satisfied with any of the proposed replacements for pkcs
mircea_popescu: anyway. c-s is not THAT slow, is it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5281 @ 0.00050643 = 2.6745 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: also has the bonus advantage that there's exactly no risk of "clever" processor intructions being used.
ascii_field: iirc it was message length
ascii_field: ('slow' is a curable thing, generally; 'bloated' is not)
mircea_popescu: i know of no decent c-s implementations anyway.
mircea_popescu: seems like the dream application for lisp, but what do i know.
mircea_popescu: iirc lips had an advantage with cyclic groups ?
ascii_field: well if mircea_popescu can locate another me but one that doesn't work a day job, he can ask for one
mircea_popescu: well, that's what the log is for.
ascii_field: shouldn't take long
mircea_popescu: log(O) :D
ascii_field: lulzily related, i was recently having a quiet laugh at usg's version of 'p'
mircea_popescu: anyway, none of this is even practical without mass cardanos, because iirc c-s consumes even more entropy than rsa.
ascii_field: it was 'open sores'd' not long ago
ascii_field: do you know where usg's 'p' lives ?
mircea_popescu: which already pleads in its favour.
ascii_field: it is made by galois inc., they call it 'cryptol'
ascii_field: read, weep.
ascii_field: not even a bad idea, it's this vaguely standardml-like contraption where you try to prove that your crypto alg works as specced
ascii_field: but written by industrial-scale kitten recyclers, aha.
ascii_field: open sores!
mircea_popescu: "Cryptol is a domain-specific language for specifying cryptographic algorithms. A Cryptol implementation of an algorithm resembles its mathematical specification"
assbot: GaloisInc/cryptol · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjrWJy )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6287 @ 0.00050643 = 3.1839 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: glhf to them.
ascii_field: sorta lulzy, it was inevitable for them to end up with just this, because they hire academics
ascii_field: who love haskell etc. because it reliably generates pseudomathematicisms for 'publication'
mircea_popescu: ahaha dude i should read wikipedia more often.
mircea_popescu: "If the space of possible messages is larger than the size of , then Cramer–Shoup may be used in a hybrid cryptosystem to improve efficiency on long messages. Note that it is not possible to split the message into several pieces and encrypt each piece independently, because the chosen-ciphertext security property is not preserved in this way."
ascii_field: wwwaat
mircea_popescu: just how retarded does someone havew to be for this ?
ascii_field: what's the edit history like, i wonder
mircea_popescu: i mean haskell, i get it. pseudomathematicisms that are too gnarly to grasp and so pass muster.
ascii_field: hey this is for them peanut galleries
ascii_field: not internal hitler use
mircea_popescu: yeah, right.
mircea_popescu: keep telling yourself that.
ascii_field: pediwikia, i meant
mircea_popescu: "oh, she's only a slut i nthe hood, she washes up nice when going downtown"
ascii_field: i can absolutely believe that 'cryptol' is used in hitler's phone etc
mircea_popescu: reheheally ?
ascii_field: usg has a number of own pediwikia-like creations, iirc
mircea_popescu: made by the same people.
ascii_field: well a pediwikia is made of what it eats
mircea_popescu: to quote the richest standup comedian of all time, "wouldn't it stand to reason that the air in your room comes from the very city that room is in ?"
ascii_field: i have not seen the internal one, save the supposedly 'leaked' pages, cannot say what it is like.
ascii_field: but presumable has correct maths, somewhere...
mircea_popescu: from my admittedly limited experience with socialist states... they all eat the same shit.
ascii_field: i suspect that usg's internal crypto works
ascii_field: just as su rockets worked
ascii_field: because - elementarily - there is no place anywhere else for maths types
ascii_field: the good ones or the mediocre
ascii_field: either
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with angry birds ?
mircea_popescu: socialism is this great system to take hot chicks and smart boys and make them all play with pebbles until the day they die.
ascii_field: what if all you want is 'play with pebbles'
ascii_field: e.g., prove correctness (or otherwise) of cramer-shoup
jurov: ascii_field: so you say there's math-manhattan-project hidden somewhere?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00049861 = 7.3794 BTC [-]
jurov: for decades?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you misunderstand the "play with pebbles". it's doing stuff like playing angry birds on iphone.
jurov: re: ring buffer - does not solve the fragmentation the moment you want to reorder txs by fee. i see it as either using slab allocator or periodically dumping whole mempool to disk and reread it
mircea_popescu: jurov you don't reorder them physically. you just keep the ring's index up to date.
mircea_popescu: actually, i suppose i should go into detail as we have no good reason to suspect we actually agree on anything but the words. so :
jurov: and then a medium txfee transaction comes you, to throw one free tx out to make space.. but it won§t fit
jurov: throw out two, end up with wasted mem
mircea_popescu: n bytes are allocated to "ring buffer", from offset k to offset k+n. the convention of reading this is that structures started at k+n-m that are m+p bytes long continue from k+n to k and all the way to k+p
mircea_popescu: you separately keep an index of what structures you have in there (offset, length).
mircea_popescu: whenever you want to add something, you put it in the available hole. if you don't have a hole you kill something until you do.
mircea_popescu: how to do either of these is a problem of optimization outside the scope of this discussion.
jurov: lol
mircea_popescu: but a firm guarantee can be offered that for as long as you allocate structs smaller than n, you wioll be able to fit them.
mircea_popescu: which is the problem we are trying to solve.
jurov: n is how much? 200kB
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: n is 500mb
jurov: you want 500M transactions?
mircea_popescu: or w/e memory space one wants to allocatge to the "mempool"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu just described traditional malloc
ascii_field: or rather, fixed heap size variant thereof
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: fixed size malloc is what it is neh ?
ascii_field: which happens to be what i'm implementing right at this very moment
ascii_field: whole reason i'm at the console to begin with...
mircea_popescu: heh. aite.
jurov: ascii_field: what do you think about slab allocator? i know it adds a layer of complication, but may be worth it
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the <jurov> lol part : there's a very obvious optimization where you go a) i want to fit this struct ; b) is there space ? if yes fit it if no c) kill the lowest per-byte value struct in there go back to a
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of work can be done to minimize wastage in this, but the fundamental problem is solved.
ascii_field: aha this was described in agonizing detail in the original mempool thread
mircea_popescu: was it ?
mircea_popescu: i thought we never actually detailed the matter.
jurov: also, unless whole thing is rewritten, itx consists of 2 vectors (inputs, outputs) with several objects and you want to remove all or none
mircea_popescu: it's still a chunk of bytes.
jurov: several chunks
mircea_popescu: not as far as this mechanism is concerned.
ascii_field: the way the existing turd stores tx is untenable
ascii_field: (interdependent shitweb of links to 'inputs' and 'outputs')
mircea_popescu: and for that matter haphazard.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333095 << but recently mircea_popescu opened my eyes and i learned that my desire to spend life investigating crypto and proving mathematical facts is entirely same as wanting to play 'birds' ?
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 17:21:16; mircea_popescu: ascii_field you misunderstand the "play with pebbles". it's doing stuff like playing angry birds on iphone.
ascii_field: so now i have a bit moar sympathy for the pebble folk
ascii_field: i live in the -ev diesel tank with'em
ascii_field: the 20x20x20 metre one from mircea_popescu's essay
mircea_popescu: ascii_field quote ?
ascii_field: the one with 'what makes you sorry lot think you get seats in heaven? there's a 20 metre cube fermentation tank...' or sumthinglikethat
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "waste" soviets experience is of course to be sympathized with. controlling here is a quote from an older article, http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/#footnote_1_60271
assbot: Strategy for the antisocial struggle. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjuF5U )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field quote as to "opened my eyes", i know where the concrete hole is from
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13396 @ 0.00050105 = 6.7121 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: this thing, incidentally, is where we would immensely benefit from actually having silicon.
mircea_popescu: the whole txn memory mapping could be a soac thing, and you just plug memory sticks into it which each becomes a ring.
ascii_field worked this out in some detail, if anybody 'ever asks'
mircea_popescu: the motherboard has some memory on-board for the indexing and internal kitchening, and otherwise you maximize the strengths of ddr while escaping all drawbacks
ascii_field: aha it runs in 'bursts'
ascii_field: (one rung of the ring ought to be the size of the r/w burst for the dram)
mircea_popescu: soac = soc = system on a chip
mircea_popescu: ascii_field precisely.
ascii_field has been at this for quite some time.
mircea_popescu: if only we had a cardano ready to ship so this discussion could double as marketing for the s.nsa next product.
mircea_popescu: as it is, it's free marketing for "21co"'s next potato.
mircea_popescu: not even funny.
ascii_field: did anyone buy first potato ?
ascii_field: i confess i was not tracking it
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter. did anyone buy's 21co's PREVIOUS potato, when it was called neobee or w/e the shit it was called ?
mircea_popescu: the next one will be called something else, and so on.
ascii_field: it was same gang ?
mircea_popescu: yes. the gang of "out of wot idiots".
ascii_field: ah, in that sense yes
mircea_popescu: don't tell me if we were in 1715 you'd have been the sort that actually distinguished the slaves.
ascii_field: can't say i would
mircea_popescu: ascii_field just think of this beautiful illustration of doing > thinking. just like you had your thoughts figured out by someone else, so will WE have these figured out by someone else. endlessly.
ascii_field: if my thoughts were never figured out by independent other folks, i would have to conclude that i have finally gone mad
mircea_popescu: but if your thoughts are figured out before you sell the thing, you will forever be looking for a job.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: i suppose s.nsa should actually hire more engineers ? whadda ya think ?
ascii_field: well we currently have one engineer who works infamously slowly between death marches of day job. mircea_popescu thinks that two or more would work faster ?
ascii_field: or what
mircea_popescu knows that he's supposed to be doing management for the thing and has no product whatsoever to show the investors THREE years later! this is the 3rd xmas.
mircea_popescu: i gotta do something, lest i get fired.
ascii_field: undercapitalized cat is undercapitalized ? afaik s.nsa can't afford even 1/3rd of a whole engineer
mircea_popescu: anyway, in the even keeled view of the matter, a person can only be participating in one death march at a time. since you're working with some other company, and it doesn't seem to be wanting to list itself, we need an engineer actually working for s.nsa ?
ascii_field: well i won't be working with $othercompany for much longer...
mircea_popescu: s.nsa can afford an infitnity of engineers.
mircea_popescu: unlike any other concern, s.nsa pays everyone ~100% of what theyr work is worth
mircea_popescu: as judged by the open market.
mircea_popescu: consequently, it could hire 10 million, today.
ascii_field: in the martian sense of 'hire' aha
mircea_popescu: !s m s.nsa
assbot: 21 results for 'm s.nsa' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=m+s.nsa
mircea_popescu: !t m s.nsa
assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00005 / 0.0000512 / 0.000055 (10000 shares, 0.51 BTC), 30D: 0.00005 / 0.0000512 / 0.000055 (10000 shares, 0.51 BTC)
mircea_popescu: what was the par, 10000 iirc ?
mircea_popescu: myeah, trading at ~50% discount.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 472.76008500 / 4737075
gribble: 9.98e-05
mircea_popescu: company with 9980 satoshi/share in capital on the books nevertheless trading at 5500. now that's one hell of a performance.
ascii_field: this is not hard, just use engineer that works day job... but this has flip side, yes
mircea_popescu: apparently the "lose half your money" thing is still with the btc public huh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to reassure teh investors : s.nsa actually does have 456.01462284 in cash, should the company be wound down today it would distribute ~9626 satoshi per share to investors.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4196 @ 0.00049861 = 2.0922 BTC [-]
ascii_field: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 354.02, Best ask: 355.01, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 353.99, 24 hour volume: 21705.98693894, 24 hour low: 351.0, 24 hour high: 363.29, 24 hour vwap: None
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what was 'the lose half your money thing' ?
ascii_field: i think this was before my time ?
mircea_popescu: not really, started by glbse, maintained by every single non-mpex "bitcoin business" to date.
mircea_popescu: going on five years by now.
ascii_field: i thought that was 'all your money;
mircea_popescu: no, that was before nefario, theymos, goat & the rest of the friends split.
mircea_popescu: that was back when it "worked"
ascii_field: from conversation with pet:
ascii_field: pet: 'aintcha glad you didn't take preorders'
ascii_field: me: 'preorders are of the heathens'
ascii_field: pet: 'but imagine if you had'
ascii_field: me: 'i'd be looking for a kaisyaku for the seppuku'
mircea_popescu: see, had you stolen and sold some soviet tanks for scrap in 2009 you could have moved to ba in 2013 and been looking for an engineer to join your workshop today.
ascii_field: l0l if i even knew how to steal a broken cent properly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2956 @ 0.00049872 = 1.4742 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3668 @ 0.00050643 = 1.8576 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-05-2015#1143203 << lettuce re-introduce this into the record. One Robert J. Hansen goes to california to help some derp make drm for the palm pilot ; gets scammed and ass raped. while this is exactly what he deserves, the story of his suffering is nevertheless instructive.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 04:03:08; mircea_popescu: http://sixdemonbag.org/yomu.html << the sad story about how some schmuck got scammed by the schmuck he was doing drm for.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00050643 = 5.3175 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00050113 = 4.7607 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00050473 = 3.2303 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4118 @ 0.0005023 = 2.0685 BTC [-]
assbot: Yoga Class Is Suspended After Students Deem It Culturally Inappropriate – The Ticker - Blogs - The Chronicle of Higher Education ... ( http://bit.ly/1MLcrru )
phf: so gossip should be able to accept variable size packets, a naive version is to have our own header, {headerbit,body size} followed by body. in case of gpg backend we feed body to gpgme, let it figure things out. a better option is to have a (rudimentary?) parser for opengpg packets, and only accept a fixed subset of packet sequences, or specifically what you get when you encrypt a message with gpg. {pubkey enc packet}{encrypted data
phf: packet}{compressed packet}{literal data packet}
assbot: JL: The Last Book Store ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q4YeIm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.0005023 = 2.6622 BTC [-]
phf: i'm not sure what's to be done about DoS attacks though. body size caps? we have a handful of protections allowed by the carrier (only accepting messages from certain ips, etc), but ultimately can get a spoofed 4gb bundle and will not know that the data is spoofed until have the whole thing, and try and verify/decrypt it
ben_vulpes: i was under the impression that a first gossip packet was a signed nonce so that the implementation could drop all subsequent packets at its convenience.
phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9341 @ 0.00049861 = 4.6575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00049466 = 10.8825 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: phf: shows you what i know
jurov: if the nonce is bad, it's ok to just ignore all packets from the address(with timeout)
jurov: until there's DoS that spoofs the address, i know.. but that bar is much higher
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00049466 = 6.7768 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: jurov: phf's point though is that then you're relying on state /outside/ of gossipd to run gossipd. if i understand correctly.
jurov: well, the fact that packets have source and destination address is not avoidable
jurov: my proposition is that if packets signed by key in WoT come from an address, it's unlikely DoS will come from there too.
mod6: good scrollback today
ben_vulpes: won't you end up in a situation a la bitcoin where the ip is encoded into the message itself?
mod6: i need to quit shitshoveling and just dive down these manholes everyday instaed.
danielpbarron: from the yoga cancelled thing >> Ms. Scharf offered to rebrand the class as "mindful stretching," but student leaders did not think that was enough.
mod6: we've got a lot of work in front of us for '16.
jurov: ben_vulpes: why? and bitcoin sends 0.0.0.0 or localhost as "own address" anyway
mod6: so I'd like to get v054 done by the end of the year.
mod6: then get these tasks written up and broken down if possible as a road map for '16.
mod6: maybe we can take these things, quarter at a time.
mod6: depends on what makes sense. i'll need all the help I can get. either we put in the work that needs doing and you have a republic, or you don't.
jurov: well, if you want the fixed mempool in 054, gotta start now. it's not possible without rewrite.
mod6: I'm thinking that we cap further changes on v054.
mod6: Perhaps these additional major changes will go in one release at a time. And, we've been here before, but I'd like to keep the changes per release down to something manageable.
mod6: I'll try my best to steer us there.
mod6: Not a lot really remains left for v054. I'm in the process of getting all of the 3rd party deps, listed and then will sign and find a place for them on the website. Then I need to update my build script so it pulls and verifies all of that stuff from our own host. Beyond that, I just need to publish the v054-RELEASE patch I've been sitting on. Then Mr. Vulpes & I will need to sign all the vpatches and post 'em to the mailing list.
mod6: This is a clean break point to start working on the rest of these large pieces such as the mempool.
jurov: good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6832 @ 0.00049973 = 3.4142 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3399 @ 0.00050643 = 1.7214 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5241 @ 0.00050643 = 2.6542 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333229 << for gossipd, using stock gpg, much less an abomination (time the invocations some time..!) like gpgme, is a monumentally bad idea
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 20:29:36; phf: so gossip should be able to accept variable size packets, a naive version is to have our own header, {headerbit,body size} followed by body. in case of gpg backend we feed body to gpgme, let it figure things out. a better option is to have a (rudimentary?) parser for opengpg packets, and only accept a fixed subset of packet sequences, or specifically what you get when you encrypt a message with gpg. {pubkey enc
ascii_field: and imho it is absolutely impermissible to have any plaintext invariant fields
ascii_field: gotta know the pubkey of your recipient, from first packet up
ascii_field: and he must know yours.
ascii_field: and the conversation, from first packet onwards, must be indistinguishable from rng garbage to the enemy.
ascii_field: every byte of it.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333236 << if you use tcp or any other protocol where an enemy gets to hog so much as a byte of ram JUST FOR SHOWING UP, you're ddosable
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 20:42:43; phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent
ascii_field: and enemy can do useful traffic analysis on top of that.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333245 << this is deeply wrong. enemy can make ANY PACKET issue forth from just about anywhere in the backbonez
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:02:41; jurov: my proposition is that if packets signed by key in WoT come from an address, it's unlikely DoS will come from there too.
ascii_field: having any supposed source or destination.
ascii_field: at no point must a gossip packet's apparent source ip be treated as meaningful.
jurov: well, then just better keel up and die
ascii_field: we can readily communicate over a hostile net, using scheme described earlier
ascii_field: and, if it comes to this, over some other net.
jurov: if $enemy reacts to packets without recognizable structure by ddosing
ascii_field: jurov: then we stego on a 'recognizable' structure
ascii_field: this is not hard.
ascii_field: crapware artists do it every day.
ascii_field: (to get past 'ids' idiocy)
ascii_field: it is quite simple to ignore the apparent originating ip because we always know where a valid packet came from - based on which pubkey on your end is able to validate the sig.
ascii_field: and you know the packet is 'for you' because you were able to decrypt it with your privkey.
ascii_field: so there is never any possible confusion about source or destination.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> jurov: then we stego on a 'recognizable' structure << 1024 nudes encoding!
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gotta stay under the mtu. but otherwise yes.
ascii_field: '1. Books ghost written for a Fox news Op-ed figure, 2. Jingoistic tomes on the defeat of the evil Nazi empire by “the greatest generation” of Americans, revealing as yet unfathomed Nazi evils and under-appreciated American heroics. [WWII is no longer, apparently recognized as having had a Russian or Japanese component, and the Third Reich is represented as an engine of global extermination that was
ascii_field: not going to rest until every non-German human had been wiped from the face of the Earth.] The leftist rewriting of this conflict seems as kooky as the bizarre neo-Nazi revisions I read in my youth, but is more troubling, because, where the right wing kooks who wanted to paint humanity’s largest killing with a bizarrely fantastical brush of Germanic innocence were rightly ignored, the lefties are finding thei
ascii_field: r way onto the mainstream book list. 3. Neo-conservative books promoting the U.S. as the world’s SWAT team.' << aha
ascii_field: i have personally met folks who grew up on this 'history'
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333221 << were you ever able to find the 'US v. Trafford' case mentioned in the tale ?
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 18:44:19; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-05-2015#1143203 << lettuce re-introduce this into the record. One Robert J. Hansen goes to california to help some derp make drm for the palm pilot ; gets scammed and ass raped. while this is exactly what he deserves, the story of his suffering is nevertheless instructive.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: !up ascii_field
trinque: Some states initially refused to comply, fearing that the feds would make a national database of citizens. << lulzy
ascii_field: !s tax passports
assbot: 3 results for 'tax passports' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tax+passports
ascii_field: old nyooz ?
jurov: not for domestic travel afaik
ascii_field: anyway soviet sop
ascii_field: mega-unsurprise
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.00050695 = 2.6661 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes doesn't see the point on domestic travel
ben_vulpes: not until they install checkpoints anyways, and that'll cost far more than they really can spend.
ben_vulpes: or they'll do it anyways and print to cover the loss.
ben_vulpes: either way, good show chaps
BingoBoingo: jurov: Care to qntra a piece or are your shiva hands full too?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3795 @ 0.00049935 = 1.895 BTC [-]
jurov: about the passports?
jurov: rather full, yes
BingoBoingo: Ah, yes about the passports. If your hands are full no worries.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00049935 = 3.5204 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that was before the courts were usefully digitized. the only thing in the online docket matching is http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2er0oxs6v/california-northern-district-court/usa-v-trafford/
mircea_popescu: but instead here, http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/migtpmjv/california-northern-district-court/usa-v-su/ have a lol at chinese woman trying to get her fambly across.
assbot: USA v. Su :: California Northern District Court :: Case No. 4:11-cr-00288-JST ... ( http://bit.ly/21lYW9o )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13296 @ 0.00049935 = 6.6394 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14296 @ 0.00049519 = 7.0792 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00049466 = 2.869 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333245 << this then doubles as both a dos avenue (your upstream router can say packets come from any ips it wishes to say they came from) and a dos avenue (the wot member in question will no longer be able to connect now)
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:02:41; jurov: my proposition is that if packets signed by key in WoT come from an address, it's unlikely DoS will come from there too.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333250 << that's the punishment for the competent. more work.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:05:25; mod6: we've got a lot of work in front of us for '16.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Marcha de las Dumbas - http://trilema.com/2015/marcha-de-las-dumbas/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333255 << yeah, probably a good way to start 2016, write it all down think it all through.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:15:00; mod6: depends on what makes sense. i'll need all the help I can get. either we put in the work that needs doing and you have a republic, or you don't.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:24:54; mod6: This is a clean break point to start working on the rest of these large pieces such as the mempool.
adlai: ;;isup mpex.co
gribble: mpex.co is down
adlai: (seems to be just the one)
adlai: ah no, .biz too
deedbot-: [Qntra] Arris Cable Modems Weak - http://qntra.net/2015/11/arris-cable-modems-weak/
assbot: Prisoner can't sue USA Today for not printing gambling odds, Pa. court says | PennLive.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Xog2DW )
assbot: MPEx, the Bitcoin securities exchange. ... ( http://bit.ly/1XogQZz )
felipelalli: thank you for the review and publishing BingoBoingo!! :)
adlai: lazy man's ;;isup
mircea_popescu: looks like some dns issue.
adlai: ``history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes''
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all --currency gbp
gribble: Bitstamp BTCGBP last: 237.631854, vol: 5327.93965189 | BTC-E BTCGBP last: 234.8582183, vol: 5634.52584 | CampBX BTCGBP last: 242.8345, vol: 3.58696556 | BTCChina BTCGBP last: 240.628191, vol: 58990.36390000 | Kraken BTCGBP last: 238.0, vol: 0.0528545 | Bitcoin-Central BTCGBP last: 240.3027, vol: 38.75876479 | Volume-weighted last average: 239.935569446
BingoBoingo: OMG More Familiar numbers!
BingoBoingo: It's like a time warp to September!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333296 << what's so "concerning" about this ? the neonazi retcons were driven by people who didn't own the printing presses. the usg retcon is driven by the usg, just like the soviet retcon was driven by the soviets.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 21:59:28; ascii_field: not going to rest until every non-German human had been wiped from the face of the Earth.] The leftist rewriting of this conflict seems as kooky as the bizarre neo-Nazi revisions I read in my youth, but is more troubling, because, where the right wing kooks who wanted to paint humanity’s largest killing with a bizarrely fantastical brush of Germanic innocence were rightly ignored, the lefties are find
mircea_popescu: i seem to remember that according to the pravda, russia won ww2 all by itself also
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that the conflict in europe was the smaller half of the conflict.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333314 << they can spent everyone's time, because that's what everyone there wants to do with their time anyway.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 22:41:59; ben_vulpes: not until they install checkpoints anyways, and that'll cost far more than they really can spend.
mircea_popescu: sit around in govt checkout booth, then go for a slutwalk and mcdonalds takeout.
punkman: there's this whole genre of checkpoint videos on youtube, because it's not enough to go through the gate, gotta spend an hour talking to dumbass guards and make videos of it.
mircea_popescu: i lived in a time when travel took more than "boarding"
mircea_popescu: if they're going to make show you up x hours early because security theatre, might as well spend them wasting their time.
mircea_popescu: you're there anyway.
mircea_popescu: heck, i lived in a time when people smoked on planes, to no detriment.
adlai: these days they e-smoke, although that'll get banned soon enough too
punkman: I've yet to see anyone blow vapour clouds in airplane
punkman: mircea_popescu: you're there anyway. << yeah but they'd normally just pass through, unless stuck in traffic, in which case nowhere near the guards to interact with
adlai has only heard about it secondhand as a complaint, so b&hammers are likely on their way already
mircea_popescu: punkman pass on through to where, the tarmac ?
punkman: these are car checkpoints, like at the border, but not at the border
mircea_popescu: ie, to get into the plane.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck waits to get off the plane.
punkman: I've seen some pretty big queues after disembarking airplane
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUHfyPylVL8 the archetypal checkpoint video
assbot: Resisting Tyranny in CheckPoint City, USA - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1PjPTlB )
punkman: jurov, seems like coinbr can't fetch market data
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