Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-11-18 | 2015-11-20 →
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mircea_popescu: what "killing for hire"
BingoBoingo: Andreas
mircea_popescu: must be great to inhabit reality-free world. as alf says, the commonplace, sane constraint of being economically +ev - isn't there.
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BingoBoingo: Fuck even neutral ev is rare
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BingoBoingo: So qntra's down but there seems to be a law enforcement crackdown on the reddit clearnet markets. "btc is not the future anymore it's really becoming the only option."
assbot: [Source] Gear Heros payment method rant : Steroidsourcetalk ... ( )
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punkman: BingoBoingo: what's "major mg player"?
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davout: salut les assetophiles
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jurov: hi davout
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00051565 = 12.8913 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: we know refined sugar and other white stuff is evil, but last night I was horrified to see how:
davout: jurov: tl;dr?
jurov: sorry it's scanned...asciilifeform what ocr do you use?
jurov: tl;dr: it corrupted every civilization that touched it, back since crusades
davout: sugar is eval, better switch to cocaine amirite
jurov: i enjoyed the tidbit about coca-cola being a criminal organization since 120 y ago (as decreed by US judge, it got largely ignored)
davout: evil*
davout: well, eval is also evil
jurov: and not diabetes, but psychical disorders and other problems are correlated with refined sugar/white flour/white rice intake
jurov: *but also
jurov: dude has new age/yin/yang slant but most information is sourced
jurov: basically, capitalism is fueled by sugar addiction, instead of removing sugar we "invent" cures that can be sold - again this is known but to what degree and how long ago it started!
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adlai: ~10kya. agriculture lets the greedy algorithm compound upon itself
jurov: adlai read it. asians who ate brown rice were completely fine. until the "invention" of white rice
adlai: it's a rather inevitable progression, the only sure way to avoid it is to learn from those who didn't
jurov: it also got me sceptic about other addictives, like easy credit... we can avoid it individually, mirea can even have his hangings... but barring planetary catastrophe
jurov: the civilization will just get addicted to more and more stuff
adlai: too much money, too much sucrose... so we blaze across the petri dish, gobbling up agar until we smack into plastic
jurov: and then invent expensive 'solutions' to side effects
jurov: i more deeply comprehended why mircea disdains "progress",it's eloquently explained there
adlai: i'm not sure the thing being fueled here is capitalism. i want to say consumerism, but it seems more towards consumptionism, packaged and sold to the consumer as consumerism
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jurov: adlai it's the addiction that enables accumulation of capital and its use in business
jurov: societies where wars are fought on honor instead of satisfying the cravings don't need it, also they scarcely need to manage "delayed consumption" so much
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kakobrekla: i have been using xylitol instead of the usual sugars lately and i am still kicking
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 10:55:29; jurov: and not diabetes, but psychical disorders and other problems are correlated with refined sugar/white flour/white rice intake
mircea_popescu: o shit, check it out, next line down.
mircea_popescu: how do i do these things.
mircea_popescu: << until what ? what would you say is the stable solution here ?
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 11:02:11; jurov: the civilization will just get addicted to more and more stuff
mircea_popescu: even if you're not a fan of the foundation of rome/end of thebes mythology, even if you don't particularly enjoy the jewish sodomah/gomorrah stories, what do you think would be the stable solution here ?
adlai: if satoshi cuts down an entire forest to print out leaflets, but nobody reads the whitepaper, did he still make sound money?
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Cardano to Ship in 2015 -
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assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 06:12:53; punkman:
mircea_popescu: no, no, allow me to give you a grandiose anecdote to go with that! so, mp spends 6-700 euro to get new servers at which is supposedly the flagship of the entire "offshore hosting" "industry". in exchange for which payment, the following conversation ensues :
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 11:05:17; jurov: i more deeply comprehended why mircea disdains "progress",it's eloquently explained there
assbot: dpaste: 1HP9QY2 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: so now tell me a little more about ddos and basic bojums and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: the simple point of fact is that the kids are idiots. not some of them. all of them. the class arrives already thrown, and nobody can be arsed to put their foot down/
mircea_popescu: so they just hire the scum, and hope and pray. and hey, if the customers are displeased what ever the fuck, it's "best business practices", ie, "all the other shops intown are hiring from the same group of perambulating monkeys. you want these shoes or not ?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how come 'Russia is no good. What else you got' ?
mircea_popescu: what ddos ? what anything ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform elemetary i was going to turn down his first babble.
mircea_popescu: you ever been in a negotiation before ?
asciilifeform: sure. was wondering if this.
mircea_popescu: yes, this.
asciilifeform: reads almost like a comic caricature of orc sales, where you bid on a pig, and get offered old stinking rat, 'same!!1111'
asciilifeform begins to grasp what mircea_popescu was trying to hammer into his thick head the other day.
mircea_popescu: no dude, let me quote from eulora chan :
mircea_popescu: <DianaComan> incidentally mircea_popescu is that Eulora poster available in some format that can be easily printed? guess it can't hurt to get some copies pinned around the uni campus here
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> where is here ?
mircea_popescu: * hanbot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
mircea_popescu: <DianaComan> uk, reading uni
assbot: Discover the University of Reading - study, live and socialise at one of the top 1% universities in the world – University of Reading ... ( )
mircea_popescu: <lobbesbot> Title: Discover the University of Reading - study, live and socialise at one of the top 1% universities in the world University of Reading (at
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> DianaComan have you met any of these brave young fellows populating reading ?
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> the only thing i'd pay them to do is slit their own throats.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> save isis the trouble.
mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> updated prices and some new inventory
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> or, if you prefer the alternative formulation,
assbot: #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-11-09 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: <lobbesbot> Title: #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-11-09 (at
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> btw lobbes could it read the log line instead of the page title ?
mircea_popescu: <DianaComan> heh, I have some coming to me to figure out some Maths really - about 50% run after a few lessons complaining that it is too hard and I'm happy with that
mircea_popescu: so, yeah. the herd has won through the age old tactic of "we'll just stick together". because you thought that unions and "collective acton" was good.
mircea_popescu: it's not good. it's not even ok. it is HORRIBLE.
mircea_popescu: it makes the world a shittier place.
asciilifeform: << we have this pestilence. in the maths dept of $uni, there is a gigantic wall of leaflets for 'tutoring' flyers, and half of all the phd candidate folks pay their rent this way: helping victims of usa 'schooling' fail more slowly
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 14:59:25; mircea_popescu: <DianaComan> heh, I have some coming to me to figure out some Maths really - about 50% run after a few lessons complaining that it is too hard and I'm happy with that
mircea_popescu: soon enough they unionize themselves out of class, then they show up for jobs and "force" the "evil capitalist" to you know, hire them to randi zuckerberg all over the office.
mircea_popescu: helping my foot.
mircea_popescu: it's dumb-dumb : the phds pay the rents, the scum gets to keep the pretense going
asciilifeform: prolongs the agony
asciilifeform: sorta like american 'medicine'
asciilifeform: the 'unionize out of class' thing is horrifyingly real. in usa we have a custom of 'grade on a curve'
asciilifeform: where literally this happens.
asciilifeform: 'Some data centers in Ukraine had a raid this week and we dont receive the information in time to set the offers out of stock.' << any idea if this is true ?
mircea_popescu: exactly. so what happens next ? a) they show up for work and b) the only work they can do is star in movies, where unfortunate thirld worlders suffer the horrible fate of having their ancestral knowledge passed down at great expense that "white man good, you scum" married to the fact that deep down in his entrails he feels like this is a great thing!
mircea_popescu: and so now you have the whole planet poisoned.
asciilifeform: not entirely off subj, >> i've begun to suspect that most u.s. folk who know about the police looting are ~in favour~. thinkaboutit: they have no assets to steal. ergo 'those bloody kulaks deserve'.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 04:33:59; punkman:
asciilifeform: what can a cop take from the typical american, other than anal virginity ?
mircea_popescu: obviously.
mircea_popescu: russia redux.
asciilifeform: (his mortgage? his cc bill ? college debt ?)
punkman: the car
asciilifeform: punkman: the car is typically either an old rust bucket or deeply creditatronic
mircea_popescu: this myth that usians own cars is laughable.
asciilifeform: the linked article mentioned cops searching pockets and taking as little as 100 usd. and this was meant to provoke outrage, but typical reader quite likely went 'what kind of monster walks around with 100 bill'
mircea_popescu: how many usians under 35 own a car ?
mircea_popescu: their budget is < 500 bucks, which barely buys a bike.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: many, but the car is typically a museum piece
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, EVERYONE in argentina. non 100 bills carry a 5% discount here.
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punkman: can they seize leased car?
mircea_popescu: they can but the lease co gets it back, fines you.
asciilifeform: punkman: just as a mortgaged house - sure. but then all the victim gets is just another debt collector after him
asciilifeform: not quite same as losing actual asset
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: so what's eta on qntra?
assbot: Ripoff Report | Complaint Review Internet: 1157288 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: all etas now upgraded to "basic bojum" level.
mircea_popescu: punkman that site is a known blackmail op.
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mircea_popescu: iirc there was one on bitbet there too.
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punkman: "We dont receive any answer so we have temp. shutdown the VPS. The VPS would be unblocked after the wrong Review is deleted."
punkman: let's see if they ask you take log down
mircea_popescu: the despicable, miserable, filthy truth in here
mircea_popescu: is that i actually make money with these stupid shits.
mircea_popescu: like that's what i want from life ;/
asciilifeform: 'They just resell servers from various other datacenters but appear as if they have their own hardware' << this may well be true. very common scamatron, arse-mouth system.
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why this would be a discovery or anythning. this is the business.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck would you expect them do, build dcs ?
mircea_popescu: "this shoe shop just resells shoes from various shoe outlets"
mircea_popescu: REALLY ?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: i thought they shat the shoes out!
asciilifeform: 'only the ancients could build temples, all we know how to do is take shits in'em'
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, this is the job, what.
asciilifeform: somebody, somewhere actually runs dc
punkman: could also read as "they pretend they have own hardware"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not anymore than "Someone somewhere actually runs hydro plant".
kakobrekla: if you dont controll the building , you dont control the server
asciilifeform: for some reason i am reminded of 'farmer's market' sc4mz0rz who load up on monsanto garbage at the big box shop and then resell 'organic tomatoez!!111' to chumpers
mircea_popescu: they run the technical side, marketing has got to be wholesaled out.
mircea_popescu: punkman in practical terms ownership of capital goods is very messy. you think gm owns the equipment in gm plant ? as what, outright ? mno.
mircea_popescu: whether they bought their own box and colocated it, or rented a precolocated one from dc is a very fine point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25350 @ 0.0005234 = 13.2682 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: for one thing, most everyone works with a list of dc approved suppliers anyway.
asciilifeform: unlike a hydro plant, a dc is this thing that, at its practical minimum, costs what maybe 2 or 3 passenger buses do. serious corps run their own. most of my past employers had their critical infrastructure in some variant of own, non-leveraged in-house dc
mircea_popescu: this is a red herring.
mircea_popescu: you're looking at about 1.5bn investment to make a competitive one.
asciilifeform: they weren't nuke-proof, no. but they ~were~ 'oops, i'm an orc and forgot to pay the bills at the place i secretly resell you'-proof.
mircea_popescu: sure, could also retrofit your garage. so ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ANYTHING would be proof that. anything. just as long as done by human.
kakobrekla: its like having money in the bank? is it your bank? no? its not your money.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla do you own the building you live in ?
kakobrekla: my wot does.
mircea_popescu: this is very good, patrimonially. the drawback however is, it's very bad, sartorially.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 14:59:18; mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> or, if you prefer the alternative formulation,
mircea_popescu: it just means you don't get out enough.
mircea_popescu: that's the bitch here. there is no closed form solution.
asciilifeform: aha, the good old meatwot problem
asciilifeform: meatwotty enough and you're a peasant working the soil
asciilifeform: the soil of the beloved motherland, aha, but peasant.
mircea_popescu: the very thing of being a merchant is, that you enter into deals.
kakobrekla: i dont pay for it.
mircea_popescu: "i don't own the boat but the merchandise within"
asciilifeform: and closed-form solutions are scarce in our universe, i hear they live in another one where platonic triangles fuck platonic circles
mircea_popescu: that's how commerce works. unavoidably, and to great benefit.
asciilifeform: when works
asciilifeform: when breaks ?
asciilifeform: suddenly it's 1000 ad and you gotta own the castle again, and the staff
mircea_popescu: burn the orcs, rape their women, stgart over.
mircea_popescu: what, you think the redskins got exterminated because people hated niggers ?
adlai thought platonic circles fucked abbottic lines
mircea_popescu: you think i'm speaking of westardian genocide + mass rape cause overactive imagination ?
mircea_popescu: historical necessities, brother.
punkman: speaking of boats, "Prices to move a 40-foot container from Rotterdam to Shanghai drop to $300"
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination -
mircea_popescu: and then it will be 200, and then 100, and then you simply won't be able to get a container there. at all.
asciilifeform: what moves ~from~ rotterdam to shanghai ?
mircea_popescu: you'll just get "tech support" at maersk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform warheads.
mircea_popescu: believe it or not there still is some west tecvh they've not fully disassembled yet.
mircea_popescu: chinese hobby.
mircea_popescu: you'd fit right in!
asciilifeform: aha, just gotta paint meself yellow
assbot: Report: 17 Killed in Chinese Counter-Terrorism Raid ... ( )
asciilifeform: iirc cn still runs hydrazine rockets a la su circa 1965.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'd be surprised.
asciilifeform: punkman: i bust my gut from the lulz re: how when cn deals with its vermin there is neverending whine re: 'cruel oppressive dictatorial bootz!11111'
assbot: Quarter of men believe they have 'man periods' ... ( )
asciilifeform: '5pc of respondents even reported suffering from "menstrual cramps"' << this has gotta be a gag
mircea_popescu: unlike what, exactly ?
mircea_popescu: what the fuck isn't a fucking gag.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> BingoBoingo: what's "major mg player"? << A "MoneyGram" agent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'do not believe those who say 'all the world is shit.' for there also exists piss.' -- my grandfather
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assbot: Tesla Model S problem with the police - YouTube ... ( )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so now tell me a little more about ddos and basic bojums and whatnot. << Fuck there isn't even a business of datacenter
pete_dushenski: "officer, those bad people put CHILDREN in their car's TRUNK!"
pete_dushenski: (tesla model s has two rear-facing 'jump' seats)
pete_dushenski: (complete with 5-point racing harnesses)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo and understand, we're not even talking "server" aka 10 bux a month. or "cheap vps". or even dedicated. we're talking guy who walks in, orders 3 boxes, pays cash. and there they sit babbling.
pete_dushenski: tesla copied mercedes w123/w124, obviously
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov << i don't actually ocr my scans, ever.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 10:52:57; jurov: sorry it's scanned...asciilifeform what ocr do you use?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: in other news, trilema is back on, believe it or not.
pete_dushenski: 'The seat is only suitable for children greater than 37 inches tall, weighing between 35 and 77 pounds'
asciilifeform: holy shit
asciilifeform: nsa gave it back ?!!
pete_dushenski: hoorah !
mircea_popescu: in a sec ima recount the story of this
asciilifeform: right after you put on a new tape bobbin & back up, no ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo and understand, we're not even talking "server" aka 10 bux a month. or "cheap vps". or even dedicated. we're talking guy who walks in, orders 3 boxes, pays cash. and there they sit babbling. << I know seriously what the fuck is these people's allergy to money
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 10:52:57; jurov: sorry it's scanned...asciilifeform what ocr do you use?
assbot: jflesch/paperwork · GitHub ... ( )
punkman: also, is there anything other than tesseract?
asciilifeform: only thing i ever really tried was t
asciilifeform: problem is that ocr is not so hot for maths
asciilifeform: or just about anything technical
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 14:54:55; mircea_popescu: no, no, allow me to give you a grandiose anecdote to go with that! so, mp spends 6-700 euro to get new servers at which is supposedly the flagship of the entire "offshore hosting" "industry". in exchange for which payment, the following conversation ensues :
punkman: asciilifeform: even if not for reading, still handy for grepping
asciilifeform: punkman: aha, i had the doug lenat scans OCR'd on some weird proprietary shitware
asciilifeform: sorta worked
asciilifeform: (for grepping)
pete_dushenski: << sad sounding farmer's markets. must be an american thing. or non-breadbasketlandia thing.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 15:24:00; asciilifeform: for some reason i am reminded of 'farmer's market' sc4mz0rz who load up on monsanto garbage at the big box shop and then resell 'organic tomatoez!!111' to chumpers
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it isn't sop by any means. but happens occasionally.
pete_dushenski: the joys of 'unregulated' markets
punkman: pete_dushenski: not same profits to be made around here, but people do try to pass of shitty imports as local produce
asciilifeform: iirc cazalla had a tale about chinese strawberries in australia
asciilifeform: re: same
mircea_popescu: ok so. the story, after what was it, 4 days downtime, once the dude finally came back, is, and i quote, "ok I fixed it. give it about 20 minutes". whereupon at my inquiry trhat what was wrong wit hit ?! the response came that "it was turned off for some reason".
mircea_popescu: fancy that!
pete_dushenski: accidents happen !
asciilifeform: l0l looks like mr plug puller from phuctor finally found his way there
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, i could confirm the story that there've been a bunch of stolen servers all through ukr / poland / baltics, "opperation
mircea_popescu: "operation we're losing relevancy storm" or whatever.
pete_dushenski: "operation pushing wet noodle up hill"
kakobrekla gets meat, eggs, many fruits and most veggies straight from source
kakobrekla: could also get milk but i dont use it that much.
asciilifeform: ^ this is sop and it is how they typically bust 1,001 'tor onion' boxes after popping ~one~
asciilifeform: walk in and cart off whole dc
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: same here, save milk, for which the raw unpasteurised variety is de facto illegal here
kakobrekla: legal here.
kakobrekla: which reminds me, i might get some to try to make kefir at home
pete_dushenski sat in on 'public health' court hearing re: raw milk consumption off 'farm land'
kakobrekla: i used to get invited to slaughtering, attended once.
pete_dushenski: some german priestish dude defending the 'rights' of some moo-eyed folks who at the time i took for unrepentant hippies
pete_dushenski: government denied 'rights' in the end. raw milk cannot be taken off of farm it was produced
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform get a load of this : boxen weren't rebooted.
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: what sound does a kefir make as it dies ?
kakobrekla: "pssst" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wai wut ?!!
asciilifeform: unplugged but running on internal reactors, or what.
mircea_popescu has accidentally kefir, throuygh leaving the milk out overnight. it turned, was quite good.
kakobrekla: thats just sour milk, which is great, but for kefir you need them grains.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, whatg, someone is good enough to make it appear continuous while at the same time inept enough to give 4 days' worth of gestapo click tone ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla aok. ianae.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most plausible, from the story thus far, is that the switch got yanked
mircea_popescu: who and why the fuck would steal a switch.
asciilifeform: and how many days' worth of gestapo click tone did phuctor get.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not even'd for today.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: botched installation of mitm crapola.
mircea_popescu: for days ?!
mircea_popescu: wtf, trilema is http! whart mitm ?
mircea_popescu: it's called "relaying".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they have this obsession with 'logging ips'
asciilifeform: (and planting 'ferret cannon')
mircea_popescu: !s ferret cannon
assbot: 0 results for 'ferret cannon' :
asciilifeform: l0l, mostly vanished from google
asciilifeform: was the official usg/leaked term for their db of browser exploits and automated sprayer for same
asciilifeform: aka 'foxacid' iirc
asciilifeform: (if the names are nonsensical, complain to hitler, not me)
mircea_popescu: "This cost-benefit analysis doesn't end at successful exploitation. According to Snowden, the TAO—that’s Tailored Access Operations—operators running the FOXACID system have a detailed flowchart, with tons of rules about when to stop. If something doesn't work, stop. If they detect a PSP, a personal security product, stop. If anything goes weird, stop. This is how the NSA avoids detection, and also how it takes m
mircea_popescu: id-level computer operators and turn them into what they call "cyberwarriors." It's not that they're skilled hackers, it's that the procedures do the work for them."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148118 @ 0.00050951 = 75.4676 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: herp. nsa can't hire either.
mircea_popescu: the difference being that nsa has nothing worth doing.
asciilifeform: hey they're burglars, not soldiers
asciilifeform: and the 0days are typically worth far more than whatever crapola is being stolen at any given time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform english words don'\t denote anymore. they aspire.
asciilifeform: not even certain that anybody, outside of hitler's general staff, 'aspires'
asciilifeform: instead they show up and warm the chair, collect cheque
assbot: Ferret Cannon - Niftypedia - Wikia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: let the logs reflect.
mircea_popescu: << the hope is that this point is overstated.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 13:06:00; jurov: adlai it's the addiction that enables accumulation of capital and its use in business
mircea_popescu: specifically, that there are two kids of people : the addicts, who aren't people, and the actual people.
mircea_popescu: or in the words of the old guard sicilians, "sell the dope to the niggers, they're animals anyway"
pete_dushenski: << why not have price go back over $1k per container ? why have no freight industry at all after price crash and shucking off of excess capacity and firms who can't handle dumping ?
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 15:35:04; mircea_popescu: and then it will be 200, and then 100, and then you simply won't be able to get a container there. at all.
mircea_popescu: you don;'t understand how the world works.
pete_dushenski: no shit. i'm not 70 yo.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's alright at 90 you'll start forgetting again
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 17:19:54; thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: Contravex got Circle of Life stuck in my head.
pete_dushenski: round and round we go !
mircea_popescu: are you complaining about your own blog to yourself ?!
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller's quote. not mine.
pete_dushenski: i wish i was talented enough to 'incept' myself
pete_dushenski: or forgetful enough
mircea_popescu: by 90...
pete_dushenski can't imagine a blog with 75 years of content
pete_dushenski: mind boggling
BingoBoingo: Oh pete started blawging at 25?
pete_dushenski: 22. but that was on old 'car blog' for the first 5-6 years.
assbot: A retrospective on six years in the car blogosphere | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Ah, I though pete_dushenski was going to make me feel really old there.
pete_dushenski: << for anyone who wants to test efficacy of their emergency gasmask.
assbot: Obama and Bill Simmons: The GQ Interview | GQ ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00051411 = 19.4848 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: "It’s an alpha-male trick—put someone off-balance, flatter them and bust their chops at the same time. A few minutes later, he was grabbing control of the interview with measured responses, knowing that he didn’t have to perform without cameras or podcast equipment. And so he took his time. And it worked. I mean, how do you interrupt the most powerful man on earth? It felt like the way Federer repeatedly j
pete_dushenski: umped Novak Djokovic’s second serve in the 2015 U.S. Open Final—a savvy trick to disrupt someone’s flow, a seemingly harmless way to gain an edge. It’s what the great competitors do."
jurov: no stable solution in sight. still,there are always dreams like installation of chip to "fix" "disordered" reward neural pathways to keep the bezzle going
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 13:58:26; mircea_popescu: << until what ? what would you say is the stable solution here ?
mircea_popescu: either that or "chosen nation" emerges, butchers pharaoh.
jurov: look what happened to jews or anyone when they touched sugar
jurov: that's the whole point
pete_dushenski: inb4 moses_popescu parts the red data centre
jurov: they may have butchered, but quickly succumbed to same
deedbot-: [Qntra] Larcenous Winkelvii Exchange Hits $2200/BTC, Recants -
BingoBoingo: <jurov> look what happened to jews or anyone when they touched sugar << They heard there was honey over there, went native and chased it
pete_dushenski: and dipped apple slices in it
BingoBoingo: For maximum beetus
BingoBoingo: This is why some Jewish groups support the whole SJW/SEW thing, because they believe that in his old age Moses transcended to the Mayo Gender and was healthy at all his sizes. Even his terminal one.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14106 @ 0.00051411 = 7.252 BTC [+]
jurov: heh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00051689 = 17.1607 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: the vast majority of jooz are seriously braindamaged. tikkun olam is the original papering over of differences between people. as if looking the other way will finally allow the jooz to 'integrate' because standing out for your successfulness is awkward and shameworthy or something.
pete_dushenski: it's most self-loathing, i figure.
jurov: honey comes complete with other nutrients needed to burn it, unlike refined sugar. hence it does not cause such "hunger" for more
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: this goes way back.
mircea_popescu: it also comes with built in child protection.
BingoBoingo: straight glucose from monsanto burns just fine. Marathon runners consume gelled satches of it which they litter their ritual grounds with.
BingoBoingo: *satchets
jurov: rly, they do binge on it?
BingoBoingo: jurov: They do during races.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28370 @ 0.00051846 = 14.7087 BTC [+]
jurov: *only*
BingoBoingo: Sugar+water+gelling agent+chemical flavor also from monsanto
BingoBoingo: Occasionally flavor from Mallinkrodt
jurov: so, marathon runner during race is fine example of median modern homo sapiens. oooookay
BingoBoingo: Well, seriously look at all they work they do to justify their addiction
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: to the very first tangent out of circular egypt, presumably
BingoBoingo: They are just in denial and keep justifying their addict brain to themselves
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: 'it' is the honey or the jews ?
punkman: nothing wrong with a bit of sugar. if you are going to binge on sugar, you will also binge on honey.
asciilifeform: (to aficionados)
mircea_popescu: obama ? alpha male ?
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this nonsense.
asciilifeform: neutrino male
kakobrekla: jurov honey still gets converted into fat it you dont burn it quickly
mircea_popescu: since when droning bureaucrat droning on because too petrified of shutting up is "powerful" in any sense ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: wheat power
mircea_popescu: jesus, all the wasted spin.
mircea_popescu: dear "the press" : no matter what pig lipstick you try to put on the current iteration of hruschev, he's still uncomfortable wearing shoes.
jurov: punkman, kakobkrekla honey contains multitude of vitamins and other stuff that helps to digest it
jurov: when you take sugar, body has to take it out of somewhere else
kakobrekla: 'krekla'? come on, is not that bad.
jurov: and damages itself and you feel hungry
BingoBoingo: jurov: I mean the marathon runner is so far in the throes of addiction he will shave his nipples off with synthetic fabric to justify his high
punkman: jurov: what I don't put other food in my sugar? I just scoop it out the box?
jurov: yes, like in the morning
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu: 'it' is the honey or the jews ? << the honey. feed it to infant, watch infant become really quiet./
BingoBoingo: dat botulism
pete_dushenski: lol my thought exactly
pete_dushenski: << band-aids on nips are a thing.
kakobrekla: anyway, i recommend to anyone who is interested in the sugary topic, to look up xylitol
jurov: i don't say honey diet is not dangerous. just you don't feel so starved
kakobrekla: a sugar that is actually good for your teeth. yes, not a joke.
kakobrekla: among other things.
pete_dushenski: xylitol = dentist recommended, yes.
assbot: Synsepalum dulcificum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
BingoBoingo: <kakobrekla> among other things. << Like dog/cat/generalcarnivore poison
kakobrekla: yes, lucky im not a dog.
jurov: well, some dentist recommend fluorine, too. which is rather suspicious.
asciilifeform: the other thing that these faux sugars won't do, is,
asciilifeform: running your brain.
kakobrekla: yes, xylitol wont spike your blood with sugar.
kakobrekla: will release slowly.
asciilifeform: two-edged sword, this.
kakobrekla: but if all suger would be used for brain activity, this world would be a different place.
asciilifeform: brain demands glucose.
asciilifeform: where it comes from, is another matter
kakobrekla: most people eat every day but never think.
kakobrekla: eat sugar
asciilifeform: see also the meth thread
jurov: we have enzymes to convert misc stuff to glucose, but they need plenty of vitamines to work
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> most people eat every day but never think. << newton's 4th law of thermodumbnamycs.
jurov: if *they* aren't supplied, then it goes havoc
assbot: Logged on 25-08-2014 03:08:03; asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems
asciilifeform: an idiot with sugar, meth, bulldozer, or computer, is a higher-powered idiot
asciilifeform: a non-idiot - higher-powered non-idiot.
jurov: btw, another funny point from $book: lung cancer is correlated to... sugar in cigarettes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66500 @ 0.00051555 = 34.2841 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: if tobacco is dried slowly, it loses natural sugar and it's fine to smoke
mircea_popescu: next you're gonna say samuel clemens smoke ten cigars a day for seventy years and all it did was to preserve him
mircea_popescu: like salami.
jurov: but obv, it's not dones lowly, and they even add sugar
jurov: whch burns nastily
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the ghost of alt.tasteless pines for you
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seriously
asciilifeform: y'know, the place where i found 'the spittoon'
mircea_popescu: well... the hopeful moral in there is that the man STREUGGLES to eat the damned mcflurries
mircea_popescu: so all is well in tardworld.
asciilifeform: STREUGGLES to eat the damned mcflurries << Ohne Kampf kein Sieg (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: ('without struggle, no victory')
trinque: remote host certainly did not close the deedbot connection...
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> most people eat every day but never think. << newton's 4th law of thermodumbnamycs. << "We thought . . ." "That's what the turkey thought! Think less and you'll be better off." (tm) (comrade solzhenitsyn)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the history of the saying 'the turkey also thought...' is possibly interesting
pete_dushenski: conversation followed gulag prisoners voluntarily giving up tobacco, bacon, tea, sugar, money, etc to 'staff' in exchange for 'receipt', never to see it again
asciilifeform: the full version is 'turkey also thought, but ended in the soup anyway'
pete_dushenski: turkey also thought butcher was his friend. until thanksgiving came.
pete_dushenski: butcher fed turkey every day for years, reinforcing friendly sentiment
asciilifeform: the anecdote is that once upon a time, a peasant was selling a turkey, a rarity at the time; and that he knew that a parrot sells for 15 talers, he asked for 30, given as 'turkey is twice the size.' buyer asked, 'but parrot can talk, can your bird?' peasant replied: 'doesn't talk, but thinks 2x as much'
trinque: lol
trinque: simultanelol
jurov: heh
asciilifeform: butcher was his friend. until thanksgiving came << h. c. andersen had same story, at some length elaborated, but with a pig and christmas
pete_dushenski checks hardbound illustrated hc anderson volume next to him
pete_dushenski: 'taschen'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17850 @ 0.00052036 = 9.2884 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: hardbound illustrated hca << getting son started on 'little matchgirl' et al early ?
mircea_popescu: trinque huh ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: could just be freenode being a pain. I notice that deedbot- will say on this end that "Remote host closed the connection" and on the deedbot- end that he looks like he was disconnected by the server.
mircea_popescu: imo the VERY best story of thanksgiving friends is made by pretty much the only thing worth the mention culturally to come out of the bit of romania currently stranded as an "independent state" because russians.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: you know it !
assbot: Prikoke (fabulă animată) - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: I've got a common lisp version of the bot baking which phf helped on, handles all this much better.
mircea_popescu: but generally their (planeta moldova) work should be pretty hysterical to a russian speaker with ro knowledge
mircea_popescu: as it is vice-versa.
asciilifeform: l0l i think i saw this one!
pete_dushenski: #bitcoin-lispettes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22261 @ 0.00051969 = 11.5688 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( )
jurov: ‘‘Red mercury has a red color, and there is mercury that has the color of dark blood,’’ he said.
jurov: ‘‘And there is green mercury, which is used for sexual enhancement, and silver mercury is used for medical purposes. The most expensive type is called Blood of the Slaves, which is the darkest type. Magicians use it to summon jinni.’’
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12640 @ 0.00050964 = 6.4418 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !s red mercury
assbot: 0 results for 'red mercury' :
asciilifeform: could've sworn we did a length thread re: this philosopher's stone in 2013
asciilifeform: *lengthy
jurov: yes. but this is so funny
jurov: "Identifying such cheats was easy, the smugglers said, because real red mercury is attracted to gold but repelled by garlic."
kakobrekla: irc is a pain. you would not believe what idiocies i had put in assbot to keep it as stable as it is.
asciilifeform: and these are the folks mircea_popescu tells us are the alternative to decaying west.
asciilifeform: run moar jihadcrypt (tm) (r) on winblowz, take more gps selfies, eat moar redmercury...
asciilifeform: i forget, does magical red mercury convert goats to houri prior to fucking ?
jurov: it does everything
asciilifeform: and what is the required dose.
jurov: ‘‘It is not only about getting the red mercury,’’ he said. ‘‘The very small box needs special equipment to open it, and special reactors to work with it. If you open this box, a radius of eight kilometers around you will be destroyed.’’
asciilifeform: 'Another time, a French jihadist hired him to find a Turkish domestic cat; Syrian cats, it seemed, were not the friendly sort.' << l0l!!
kakobrekla: trinque is that lisp bot going to be decoupled?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30280 @ 0.00050964 = 15.4319 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: "Russians safeguarding the stock late in the Cold War cached tiny reservoirs of red mercury in sewing machines and radios bound for export" ahahahaha
asciilifeform: '‘‘Specific machines,’’ he said, ‘‘with a butterfly logo on them.’’ He said he knew this from experience because the red mercury used in the jihadists’ chlorine experiment in Ras al-Ain had come from his grandmother’s machine.' << l0lzy
asciilifeform: 'In southern Africa, it has cost lives. According to a regional and especially cruel variation of the legend, the substance is found in conventional military munitions, particularly land mines, there to be claimed by anyone daring enough to take them apart and extract the goods.' << brilliant and ought to be encouraged
asciilifeform: and how come nobody ever placed small qty of gold or other valuable into mines ?
asciilifeform: let'em ~attract~ idiots instead of leaving matters to chance
pete_dushenski: even place large quantity of gold in land mines. hell, make the land mines ~entirely~ out of gold. not like the yellow stuff has any better uses.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: and watering lawns is mandatory there.
assbot: Islamic State says 'Schweppes bomb' used to bring down Russian plane| Reuters ... ( )
pete_dushenski: sorta like molotov, but fizzier
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2015 18:02:54; ascii_field: pete_dushenski: supposedly isis supposedly released supposed photo of the thing a few hrs ago.
asciilifeform: ru rags had photo.
pete_dushenski: well, for teh log readers then
asciilifeform: one thing i don't get
pete_dushenski: and not sure it's 'lawns' so much as golf courses that are sucking up cali's water.
asciilifeform: so, sure, the claim implied by photo is that the can was filled from the bottom
asciilifeform: but why was it necessary to cut the whole bottom off and glue back?
asciilifeform: why not one hole ?
trinque: kakobrekla: yep, same core + services approach
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> irc is a pain. you would not believe what idiocies i had put in assbot to keep it as stable as it is. << i have a vague idea.
pete_dushenski checks stats : there are 1`151 golf courses in the state of california
pete_dushenski: average area of ~150 acres each
mircea_popescu: <jurov> "Russians safeguarding the stock late in the Cold War cached tiny reservoirs of red mercury in sewing machines and radios bound for export" ahahahaha <<< there is a very popular east european scam where "german collector" announces he is paying very high sums for "old german sewing machines".
asciilifeform: and, for that matter, why not fill the can with trotyl, squib, and radio, ~at the bottling plant~ ?
asciilifeform: (how to break the gaussian contour of the can so radio works, is exercise for the reader)
mircea_popescu: as in make the can plastic.
asciilifeform: one variant.
pete_dushenski: each golf course in california use 400k - 800k gallons of fresh water per day
mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> even place large quantity of gold in land mines. hell, make the land mines ~entirely~ out of gold. not like the yellow stuff has any better uses. <<< this is for sure how i'd be running the vault.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski now check stats on agriculture area.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40550 @ 0.00052002 = 21.0868 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski recalls something about 1 litre of fresh water per SINGLE ALMOND in california
mircea_popescu: and the 800k gallons figure is nonsense. 3.2 cubic meters of water srsly ? 150 acres is what, half a square km ? so you're supposedly doing 4 * 8 * 10^5 * 365 / .5 / 10^6 = 2336mm rainfall a year ?
mircea_popescu: what exactly survives this deluge, algae ?
jurov: why it's so unbelievable so much water can evaporate in cali?
mircea_popescu: you familiar with rainfall levels in teh world ?
jurov: 2 meters per year is nto so remarkable
BingoBoingo: Here we had one decimeter of rain over Monday and Tuesday
mircea_popescu: it's not remarkable for the fucking monsoon season.
jurov: it's almost one meter/year here. and here's much cooler
mircea_popescu: where i'm from it's ~500
pete_dushenski off for walk. will check maths.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess maybe ? strikes me as fucking insane, but then again i guess that's their point
deedbot-: [Qntra] Paris Mass Shooters Used Plaintext SMS to Coordinate -
phf: BingoBoingo: tend to involve more typically involve
funkenstein_: it's all gonna be fine in cali golfcourses because now we have schnurloser duschkopfen
punkman: wait, didn't mp use cubic meter of water per shower. 3 cubic meters of water for golf course sounds reasonable
phf: BingoBoingo: has responded to the mass shooting has responded to the mass shooting
phf: hot off the press
BingoBoingo: phf: fxd ty
adlai: also Holland vs Hollande
assbot: Zotamedu comments on A "Bitcoin intellectual" has some ideas on how to make it more popular, especially with women ... ( )
BingoBoingo: adlai: fxd, though I shouldn't have. If he wanted attention paid to his name he should have opted out of government and identified as a public key.
punkman: "There are the things we need to work on to get more women into bitcoin and then the guys will just come as iron dust to a magnet... Porn and cam-shows are good to get some men but they are not enough to form relationships. After all we need a bitcoin women finding a bitcoin man, marry eachother and make a baby. That baby will be born in a bitcoin generation with bitcoin knowledge!"
kakobrekla: sure ladies, line up here.
punkman: gabriel_radio will impregnate for free
mircea_popescu: shinohai summary ?
punkman: or was that someone else
asciilifeform: 'Я по радио влюбилась, я по радио женилась, а потом по радио дочка родилась' (tm) (r) (song)
jurov: gotta ask pete and ben about their bitcoin generation
mircea_popescu: punkman i am not a plant!
mircea_popescu: what, they enameled the courses ?
jurov: well this needs purpose-designed peripheral
punkman: it's called a cockpit
assbot: Metafetish - Too Much Information about the Interactive Fleshlight ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Peshawar was known in Sanskrit as Puruṣapura (पुरूषपुर), literally meaning "city of men".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46695 @ 0.00052038 = 24.2991 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39250 @ 0.00051704 = 20.2938 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: summary: reddit thinks mircea_popescu is little more than misogynist.
mircea_popescu: then again i guess it makes sense, reddit's collectively at that enchanted age when kid walks into bedroom unexpectedly, thinks dad's "beating the shit out of mom". because wut is fuck anyway.
ben_vulpes: buenos dias
ben_vulpes: on the lisp ui thread, a mcclim contributor of yore has started work on clim3, spec and impl: climatis:
assbot: robert-strandh/CLIMatis · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: tried it?
assbot: Metafetish ... ( )
assbot: Deldo - Vibration Control and Teledildonics Mode for Emacs - YouTube ... ( )
punkman was interested in doing complicated gui recently, looked like slim pickings outside Qt
asciilifeform: there used to be 'wx' but afaik - dead
asciilifeform: if you want anything like native-looking gui, it's qt with gasmask, or nothing at all
punkman: yes reading qt docs makes implement-everything-yourself-over-opengl attractive
punkman: I don't really care about native-looking
asciilifeform: if it doesn't matter what it looks like, at all, can use the horrendous x11 'athena' widgets
asciilifeform: as featured in clim.
trinque: commonqt wasn't a terrible gasmask
trinque used it
punkman: I'd like to make some peculiar widgets
asciilifeform: the impedance mismatch between all the idiot crud qt expects (own lists, hashes, etc.) and anything sane, is atrocious
trinque: gasmask, we were saying
trinque: but yes, you're just feeling around inside C++ with lisp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00051596 = 19.7355 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: may as well go in the opposite direction, embed, e.g., 'tinyscheme', in a cpp turd.
asciilifeform tried this roughly a decade ago, gave up in disgust
phf: can use for Qt work from common lisp. adds a thin protective layer
asciilifeform: and say i want to populate a listbox with a lisp list
asciilifeform: what happens ?
asciilifeform: oh and 'Smoke' doesn't work
punkman: any good examples of apps made with mcclim?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: not yet, not likely soon.
asciilifeform: at least not of a few yrs ago when i last saw
asciilifeform: motherfucker built on NO machine i could find.
trinque: nah I've got it all built over here
ben_vulpes: punkman: climacs sort of works. beirc is one of those 'look i wrote a thing in clim and oop now i'm working for someone else and have no time to maintain it'
trinque: but can't speak for years ago
asciilifeform: trinque: neato
asciilifeform: trinque: post recipe at some point ?
trinque: just whatever's in current gentoo for qt 4.8
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: last i tried climacs, i barfed from 1) PALPABLE keypress delays 2) athena
asciilifeform: if i wanted to feel keypress delay, i'd install ms-office.
phf: punkman: mcclim itself has a handful of examples, but and
assbot: Climacs - a Common Lisp Emacs implementation ... ( )
assbot: The Gsharp interactive score editor ... ( )
trinque: legend has it that if you say climacs three times gabriel_laddel appears
ben_vulpes: climacs
ben_vulpes: climacs
asciilifeform: if you say it five time, he... climacses ?
trinque: lol!
phf: punkman: it's really experimental technology. ~giant~ multilevel spec, implemented by a handful of enthusiasts. only worthwhile if you're prepared to spend large fraction of your time on improving and debugging the gui code itself.
asciilifeform: i think the technical term for this, is
punkman: klyemax
punkman: phf, confirms my suspicions, nobody actually makes apps with it, just masturbation
ben_vulpes: you call it masturbation, i call it a dalliance with what might have been.
phf: ^
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: go straight to the symbolics emulator for that
asciilifeform: (there even is a mac port, i have not tried it)
phf: punkman: it's a free version of clim, which is a standard. if you're trying to release actual applications on top of climacs your better bet is to buy a lispworks license and use their clim implementation
phf: *on top of clim
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i, like the fool i am, retain hope of putting lispy gui crud places, and so would rather burn the time hacking through mcclim than running the symbolics vms.
asciilifeform: phf: i can't fathom why any sane person would voluntarily use a proprietary compiler today
punkman: "intel makes my c++ goes faaaast"
phf: asciilifeform: i enjoyed working with lispworks team in the past. i don't think it's proprietary in the same sence as msvs or such. you have to buy into a relationship, but once you have a contract with them, they are accommodating. you can ask them for source if you actually want to inspect it for lizard hitler traces and compile it yourself
asciilifeform: i did this
asciilifeform: and still wouldn't do it again today.
asciilifeform: certainly not for a project with my name attached.
phf: yeah, i'm leaning that way myself, but i'm not fully convinced yet. i'm for example trying to build sufficient knowledge of cmucl right now, to be able to take full responsibility for the behavior of my deployed system, and it's a ~slow process~. it's handy to have paid professionals assist you
phf: i wouldn't even attempt to replicate the feat with, say, gcc
asciilifeform: why cmucl rather than sbcl ?
phf: the internals are more similar then not, and to fully grok sbcl you have to know cmucl anyway.
asciilifeform: i've arrived at the point where i believe any system where any such thing is necessary, to be braindamaged beyond redemption
phf: also there's less eyes on cmucl, i'm not at all convinced that the politics around sbcl are to my liking, where's cmucl is essentially abandonware. it generates code, it has a nice interpreter, the runtime is smaller, it already has treeshaker, it's got History, etc.
asciilifeform did not know about politics of sbcl
asciilifeform: phf: care to elaborate ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188150 @ 0.00052009 = 97.8549 BTC [+] {7}
phf: it's just impressions. i've been looking at a lot of high traction common lisp code (top quicklisp packages) and there's a lot of senseless turd polishing in the past few years. broken interfaces for the sake of "cleanliness", half baked code, needless macros, dependency hell etc. and then you look at the code and it's the same set of aggressive, google employed queergenders.
asciilifeform: ahahahahahaha
asciilifeform: the mistake here is 'there are maggots in this corpse, they killed the poor fella'
phf: yeah :/
asciilifeform: the maggots only come when the corpse is already a corpse.
ben_vulpes is seeing the rot in webtech takeover of cl
phf: (read the asdf3 code and ioup or whatever that package is called in your spare time and wheep)
ben_vulpes: i found a "webserver" recently whose instantiation blocked the REPL.
ben_vulpes: some gevent bullcrap iirc
asciilifeform: and the thing about tardation is that it is highly contagious
assbot: Wookie: An asynchronous HTTP server for Common Lisp | Wookie ... ( )
asciilifeform: 'Cl-async has swapped its backend from libevent to libuv. Please see the v0.6.x upgrade guide if you have not already. There are a number of reasons for swapping out libevent: Libuv is more actively maintained......'
asciilifeform stopped reading after that
ben_vulpes has wandered into a 'temple', most of the gems are missing and the walls are covered in graffiti
asciilifeform: gotta love the let's-embed-moar-weird-c-turds-in-cl folks
ben_vulpes: there is a local in the corner selling finely sculpted figurines of knuth that appear to be made of poop
phf: oh, that's coconuts, but you still don't want to touch them, since the sanitation no longer works
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 04:43:54; mircea_popescu: anyway, you know those stories about how rich guy heard the paupers / shoeshine boys discuss stocks and bailed ?
trinque: was this JP Morgan?
asciilifeform: trinque: or could stick to writing in actual common lisp
asciilifeform: as in, what's in guy steele's 'common lisp the language' 2nd ed.
asciilifeform: and the ansi standard.
trinque: sure sure, was a joke
asciilifeform: for n00bz: it is an actual standard. as in, it will be possible to run code written in 1985 in 2085, should something like a computer still exist, if it adhered to the standard.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34750 @ 0.00051323 = 17.8347 BTC [-] {2}
phf: yeah, can pick up any code from cmu's ai repository and run on modern cl unchanged
asciilifeform: just one of the many, many benefits of having something where tards are kept OUT
phf: well, in that respect cmucl is a decent litmus test. every single package that fails to load from quicklisp (named-readtables is the recent offender) turns out to be a turd on a closer inspection
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise
trinque: !up whaack
trinque: whaack: what do you say you get a bouncer or set your client to not autojoin if you're going to come and go often?
whaack: trinque: apologies didn't realize I was spamming. I'll fix my settings.
trinque: whaack: thanks!
asciilifeform: anybody else's therealbitcoin node behaving strangely?
asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: classic blackhole, now that i think about it.
jurov: something like that happened when i tried it to connect to 0.11
phf: i think maybe it's worthwhile to patch the logger so it doesn't report until the client actually does a read/write. if you do a port scan on yourself, will have same effect
asciilifeform: phf: aha, ditto telnet host 8333
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.0005241 = 24.9734 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00052411 = 20.6237 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: asciilifeform: mine kept connecting/disconnecting all night finally shut it down
asciilifeform: shinohai: if the 'power-rangerism' continues, these will eventually connect only to each other.
punkman: "Should you find yourself in a chronically-leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks."
shinohai: I have only tried connecting to listed nodes on the wiki ... was connecting to mp's node before that Ukranian bs
asciilifeform: shinohai: thing is, the protocol has neither crypto nor authentication (and the former is meaningless without the latter) and so neither you nor i have the foggiest notion of what we ACTUALLY connect to. ever.
gabriel_laddel: you called?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00052418 = 31.2149 BTC [+] {3}
deedbot-: [Qntra] Current Bitcoin-XT Incompatible with BIP-65 -
trinque: gabriel_laddel: good afternoon
phf: gabriel_laddel: you should make a bunch of cool masamune screenshots :)
gabriel_laddel: phf: sort of related - I put together a new McCLIM website with fancy screenshots
gabriel_laddel: it has yet to go online
gabriel_laddel: trinque: how goes the move-in? I saw that you're still living with family?
phf: it needs more "totally not staged doing serious bidness" shots
trinque: yeah taking it easy, haven't seen them in about two years; I'm in no rush
gabriel_laddel: phf: for that: video.
gabriel_laddel: phf: which works fine without slowdown etc
gabriel_laddel: in other masamune news - I'm working on automating the entire build right now.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: I've been making excellent use of conkeror for a while now
gabriel_laddel: trinque: did you ever end up parenscripting it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7470 @ 0.00052431 = 3.9166 BTC [+]
trinque: nah, I'm not convinced I'd gain anything from that
trinque: but then, if you already have it's not as though I wouldn't look at it
gabriel_laddel: I sunk a lot of time into it (and got it working) only to realize that I don't want to javascript no matter how s-expressiony it is.
asciilifeform: first step on the road to where i am.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: lol, I've put off learning ternary specifically so I don't end as one of those "homeless math people".
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there are worse thing to end up
ben_vulpes: fed and bored, for one.
asciilifeform: or richpoor
asciilifeform: or whatever word describes the sort of chimera i am
gabriel_laddel: Rather than die of hunger, I'd sooner eat a roast!
ben_vulpes: subject of newtardation, is smartparens vile or am i doing it wrong?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I used to use parenscript, but cannot speak to smart parens.
asciilifeform: 'In smartparens, when you input a pair-able character: the matching pair gets inserted, too, and point is positioned inside the pair:...' << FOR FUCKS SAKE WHY
gabriel_laddel: CLIMACS (ugh, needs a new name) has "structure editing" facilities, but I've not bound them yet.
trinque: ben_vulpes: I tend to swing like a monkey on the enclosing characters with evil's % and add/remove them myself
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: what exactly are you objecting to?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: e.g., interlisp had a structure editor
gabriel_laddel: twas nifty from what I've heard
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you not use paredit?
assbot: Female terrorist Hasna Aitboulahcen apparently upset about police assumption. ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Three police officials have told the Associated Press that a woman who died in the police raid was Abaaoud's cousin. One said the woman, Hasna Aitboulahcen, is believed to have detonated a suicide vest Wednesday in the building after a brief conversation with police officers.
BingoBoingo: The official confirmed an audio recording, punctuated by gunshots, in which an officer asks: "Where is your boyfriend?" and she responds angrily: "He's not my boyfriend!" Then loud bangs are heard.
gabriel_laddel: !s the translator did not miss them, they were not there
assbot: 0 results for 'the translator did not miss them, they were not there' :
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I said "parenscript" earlier and meant "paredit". Time for coffee.
adlai doesn't understand why anybody building 'professional' (as in ) tools would even want to use CLIM... maybe he's just a sucker for text
assbot: Loper OS » Engelbart’s Violin ... ( )
ag3nt_zer0: seems like some pretty dark statistics here... shouldn't "we" be concerned? or am i missing something?
assbot: The Truth About The Paris Terrorist Attack - YouTube ... ( )
gabriel_laddel: adlai: imagine for a moment that you're writing a program which abstracts over a lab instrument's controls and does a visualization of the information it reads. The requirement is that people who use it will be intelligent, but not necessarily programmers.
gabriel_laddel: They'll need to "export" the data to .csv, in a button press have an email drafted for them with the attached file using data selected using a slider etc
gabriel_laddel: adlai: if you think computer graphics are in anyway useful -> CLIM. Else, have fun trying to map the notion of a "presentation" to emacs text (see the magit and org-mode sources).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00051432 = 11.9322 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @ 0.00051906 = 16.3244 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: << today as in 2008, because hey. PROGRE-SS.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:39:55; asciilifeform: if you want anything like native-looking gui, it's qt with gasmask, or nothing at all
mircea_popescu: << afaik this is how the dilemma is resolved in any shop that ever tries it.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:44:35; asciilifeform: may as well go in the opposite direction, embed, e.g., 'tinyscheme', in a cpp turd.
asciilifeform: tbh there is no sane way of doing it because it is a contradiction in terms - 'sane' and 'os native' together would require... sane os
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct. e.g., 'gimp'
mircea_popescu: i don't mean hobbist projects, owned and managed by the v ery enthusiast in question. i mean shops. with management
asciilifeform: and there. scripting engines for games (e.g., 'abuse')
mircea_popescu: which is why pre-ba, all people i knew that knew what lisp was knew it was "oh, scripting language. pretty nifty."
asciilifeform: pretty much the only widespread public mention, if you go by 'what's in the bookstore' metric, was autodesk's 'autolisp'
mircea_popescu: "lua with weird syntax" har har
asciilifeform: (the ext lang in autocad)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00052114 = 26.6824 BTC [+] {5}
asciilifeform: which is about on par with emacs lisp in terms of 'it is FOREVER 1972 and not in any good sense'
mircea_popescu: because check it out, once it needed to open up an interface autocad did exactly what gimp did.
mircea_popescu: har har #2.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform odd that the idiot horde can keep SOME things frozen in time.
mircea_popescu: just so happens none of the things we want it to.
asciilifeform: actually it is an artifact of the fact that a schoolboy implementing a 'simple lisp' ends up bringing long-solved problems (e.g., 'the funarg problem', 'lisp is interpreted ergo slow', etc) back from the grave
asciilifeform: without exception.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:47:01; ben_vulpes: punkman: climacs sort of works. beirc is one of those 'look i wrote a thing in clim and oop now i'm working for someone else and have no time to maintain it'
asciilifeform: open sores.
mircea_popescu: << is multilevel here meaning something like it does in "multilevel marketing" ?
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:49:28; phf: punkman: it's really experimental technology. ~giant~ multilevel spec, implemented by a handful of enthusiasts. only worthwhile if you're prepared to spend large fraction of your time on improving and debugging the gui code itself.
BingoBoingo: open sore ass
mircea_popescu: random lulz : sorana (almost spoken as sore-anna) is a perfectly legit ro name.
mircea_popescu: inexplicably, not really popular as working girl working name. for some reason.
asciilifeform: generally 'multilevel' in software is kinda like the multiple layers of dodgy wallpaper in a communist flat
mircea_popescu: << for a moment i thought you were going to say "operating system".
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:50:00; asciilifeform: 'turd'
mircea_popescu: or you know, gcc.
mircea_popescu: wait for it...
mircea_popescu: OPEN SOURCE
mircea_popescu: << what is this, the 70yo to the next generation ?
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 19:51:15; ben_vulpes: you call it masturbation, i call it a dalliance with what might have been.
assbot: AquAdvantage Salmon Approval Letter and Appendix ... ( )
mircea_popescu: " and then you look at the code and it's the same set of aggressive, google employed queergenders." << there's more than one ways to go about fucking over the competition.
mircea_popescu: i suspect the google hiring of turds a la hearn and a whole raft of others to be specifically intetional.
mircea_popescu: let bezos headhunt them and die, sort of logic.
mircea_popescu: << if you look through the logs, i hit alf/others over the head about 3-4 times with the "you only perceive lisp as so because not yet popular".
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 20:14:05; trinque: << time to sell common lisp?
mircea_popescu: they usually faint and lose any memories from the past hour.
mircea_popescu: << by this criteria it is still possible to fly buran to space!
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 20:15:45; asciilifeform: for n00bz: it is an actual standard. as in, it will be possible to run code written in 1985 in 2085, should something like a computer still exist, if it adhered to the standard.
trinque will forever imagine soviets riding a vacuum cleaner into space
trinque: one name good enough for all glorious soviet product
mircea_popescu: now you know what populared my imagination coupla decades ago.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00051324 = 21.0685 BTC [-] {2}
phf: multilevel as in specs out from framebuffer up, rather then single slice, which is what x11 widget libraries are. clim is more like framebuffer+x11+xlib+qt+"a kind of application"
BingoBoingo: ;;google buran powered dildo
gribble: Luxury Line of Vibrators, Vibrator Accessories & Sex Toys by OhMiBod: <>; The Steam-Powered Vibrator and Other Terrifying Early Sex ...: <>; The Bizarre History of the Vibrator: From Cleopatra's Angry Bees to ...: < (1 more message)
shinohai: ;;more
gribble: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: of-the-vibrator-from-cleopatras-angry-bees-to-steam-powered-dildos>
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 20:49:39; asciilifeform: shinohai: thing is, the protocol has neither crypto nor authentication (and the former is meaningless without the latter) and so neither you nor i have the foggiest notion of what we ACTUALLY connect to. ever.
asciilifeform: if you're speaking unsigned plaintext, you're speaking to hitler first and only then to the intended destination.
asciilifeform: if he feels like passing your bits unmolested that day.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3318 @ 0.00051784 = 1.7182 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: << the thing about the two lisps having STANDARDS (commonlisp and scheme) is that the shit ~washes off~ - because the actual language is not open for amendment
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 22:20:08; mircea_popescu: << if you look through the logs, i hit alf/others over the head about 3-4 times with the "you only perceive lisp as so because not yet popular".
asciilifeform: and can be used, with some effort, sans any of the attempts at 'improvement'
mircea_popescu: ahahahahaha
mircea_popescu: oh let me be back after i've laughed this one.
asciilifeform: phf was not exaggerating when he wrote that one can take ai lab algos from 1980s and use UNCHANGED
asciilifeform has done this and intends to do in the future
asciilifeform: but if you want i/o, other than console - you're stuck, aha.
asciilifeform: write your own i/o.
mircea_popescu: for the i guess 6th time :
mircea_popescu: this is only the case for as long as nobody uses it.
trinque: browser <- standardized to hell and back
trinque: SQL
asciilifeform: what's wrong with my pressure hose with which i wash off the 'users' like birdshit from my car ?
mircea_popescu: once it becomes the c, your flimsy "federalist papers" won't protect you any more than yes, what trinque said.
asciilifeform: unlike c-on-unix, i can use cl without any libs
asciilifeform: and get useful work done
mircea_popescu: i wonder why this is so hard to grasp.
asciilifeform: but it is true, 'consumer has come to expect' idiot gui etc.
asciilifeform: possibly because we have differing 'this'es.
mircea_popescu: we can't.
mircea_popescu: this is the substance of the misunderstanding. you imagine that if you take a picture of a pile of objects, you now have a SPECIAL pile of objects, that does other things.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly how 3 yos fall over.
asciilifeform: let's take concrete system?
mircea_popescu: it is also how idiot brits/everyone sunk the entire culture of the west after the war :
mircea_popescu: they took a snapshot of the way educating the young worked, imagined that it's held in place by forces from mythology, and proceeded to "give kids a say"
asciilifeform: the last time i did serious work in cl, it was to run a set of laboratory machines. the only i/o i needed was rs-232.
mircea_popescu: because clearly this is a good thing, not like they'll now be more powerful than whatever force is "opressing" them into education.
asciilifeform: which i implemented using a unix fd callout.
mircea_popescu: next thing you know teaching hasn't happened in 2o years. wow of wow.
asciilifeform: other than this - total self-containment
asciilifeform: as in EVERY MOTHERFUCKING LINE was ansi-compliant cl.
mircea_popescu: it's as if he reads his own text with a different part of the brain.
asciilifeform: how was ~my particular pile~ not a counterexample to 'when surrounded, your magic will be powerless' from earlier ?
mircea_popescu: let's take an imaginary walk together.
mircea_popescu: so we go into this room, where there's all sorts of furniture.
mircea_popescu: you snap out your camera, and take a picture of some objects in this room.
mircea_popescu: this is nice and good.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, if i lean on the pile just the right way, whether you took the picture or not, they will fall down.
mircea_popescu: this happens irrespective of whether they ALSO fell down in your picture or not.
asciilifeform: this is true for everything in the universe other than software. where a picture IS in effect a second, identical pile
asciilifeform: the collapse of the original does nothing to my copy.
mircea_popescu: oh i see, this is true for everthing other than.
mircea_popescu off to ammend the rule, 0 , 1, infitnity MINUS ONE, infinity.
asciilifeform: when mircea_popescu cooked his koran, did bin laden's koran also burn ?
asciilifeform: ditto software
asciilifeform low on lsd
mircea_popescu: when mircea_popescu burned a koran, bin laden's koran also burned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00051784 = 26.2545 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: why THE FUCK do you suppose they throw a fit ? "because towelheads" ?
asciilifeform: which monastery do i need to train for 20 years in to understand how this works ?
mircea_popescu: a 3 yo's head!
mircea_popescu: you fell through a crack here apparently.
trinque: the koran is not some book; it's an arrangement of ideas in the world
trinque: common lisp too
trinque: I in point of fact cannot use common lisp in the same manner someone might've back whenever
trinque: maybe never will
trinque: the standard existing for whatever value of existing doesn't put a symbolics next to my desk
asciilifeform: trinque: depends what means 'in the same manner.' if you, say, want to be ~employable in it like a 20yo chick was in 1985~ - then no
asciilifeform: if you want the motherfucking code to execute and return same outputs for same inputs - then yes!
assbot: Nematodes And Your Compounds | In the Pipeline ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and yet you write in python.
asciilifeform: i even write in fortran.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's nothing wrong with taking pictures, as a memory aid.
asciilifeform: (which one, incidentally, could do on a symbolics box...)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19049 @ 0.00051463 = 9.8032 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but it's fucking insane to expect they work magic.
trinque: I'm reminded of the idea that whichever fighter jet is not just itself, but the vast complex which sustains it
trinque: why not ideas as well?
mircea_popescu: trinque that's why i say "it's as if he reads his own text with a different part of the brain."
asciilifeform: trinque: if it were no longer physically possible to run the code, i would agree
trinque nods
asciilifeform: and we may well be approaching this point
mircea_popescu: random arbitrary measure is irrelevant in this discussion.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's possible to paint it green. so what if it is.
assbot: Antibiotics: Not As Easy As They Say | In the Pipeline ... ( )
mircea_popescu: anyway. the lure of the superman.
mircea_popescu: in truth and honestly, humanity has produced one single great idea since the beginning,
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu is speaking of the ~ecosystem~ (can you get people who will maintain the project? at what cost? where? will they be sane? etc) then everything he said makes sense 100%.
mircea_popescu: and it goes "wouldn't it be great if.... THIS".
mircea_popescu: yeah, it would be.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im speaking of the thing. what were you speaking of ?
mircea_popescu: don't tell me we accidentallied into a public-private corssover where i was discussing public matters and you were recounting your sex life.
asciilifeform: of whether a lone wolf like gabriel_laddel or yours truly can put a lisp system inside a black box and produce a working widget that solves $problem, just like ancestors could.
asciilifeform: but in re: ecology, i must not only agree with mircea_popescu, but go further still
asciilifeform: ... you can't hire folks to write sane, reasonable 'c' either
asciilifeform: nor just about anything
mircea_popescu: the problem is not what you call it, but the bizarre notion that there is a switch somewhere.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is necessary to draw this imaginary line, in order to engineer anything without going mad. sorta like the field lines of faraday.
mircea_popescu: in the immortal words of that short, brunette scion of the wealthy dreyfuss fambly (hey, almost like the rothschilds, ok ?) "Ohh.. right. Cause if we're dating, what everyone saw was just a beautiful moment between two lovers."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not personally (per own admission) engineer anything and has the luxury of forgoing the line.
mircea_popescu: yea, this is the thing with psychic defenses : they are not optional, but necessary.
mircea_popescu: to stave off going mad.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, do not expect they operate IN THE WORLD!
asciilifeform: going mad is great fun but tends to interfere with paying the bills
mircea_popescu: obviously.
trinque: aw come now, I go mad twice daily
mircea_popescu: yeah but you're not married yet.
trinque: true enough
asciilifeform: now it ~is~ possible to engineer something while being at the same time concerned with where the parts to build $item will come from in the year 2115.
mircea_popescu: anyway, asciilifeform, the objection is not to the "word problem" abstraction cast over the world. it's with the apparent expectation this does something to the world. that's all.
asciilifeform: (but the result will likely resemble usg's aviation design bureaus circa 1970s)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00051556 = 19.2562 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 22:18:34; mircea_popescu: let bezos headhunt them and die, sort of logic.
asciilifeform: (does it subcontract for meta-nsa...?)
BingoBoingo: <trinque> aw come now, I go mad twice daily << Gotta up the duration and intensity. If you aren't spending at least a week in an insane state you aren't doing it right
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << l0l, meta-google has the real people ? << Meta Google actually seems to exist
assbot: Current Bitcoin-XT Incompatible with BIP-65 | Qntra ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35117 @ 0.00051784 = 18.185 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23534 @ 0.00051784 = 12.1868 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: it IS the meta-nsa
mircea_popescu: old jewish discovery - there can only be one.
asciilifeform: mno it has to be a reservation of 1950-quality human
asciilifeform: y'know, the folks who pop rsa, plant rf bugs in cpu masks, etc.
asciilifeform: and certainly not a gaggle of pederasts in palo alto.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Eulora auction, Sunday the End Of November! -
asciilifeform: wai wut
mircea_popescu: OP_HODL < always good for a chuckle.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00051901 = 23.4593 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: Shout out to btcdrak who was shilling for OP_HODL a few days back
asciilifeform: wai wut
btcdrak *high fives* shinohai
assbot: Current Bitcoin-XT Incompatible with BIP-65 | Qntra ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29250 @ 0.00052471 = 15.3478 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: I wasn't impressed or anything, just ftr
asciilifeform: ph0rk??
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 20:55:55; gabriel_laddel: I sunk a lot of time into it (and got it working) only to realize that I don't want to javascript no matter how s-expressiony it is.
btcdrak: fun fact: Mike claims there is no consensus for a softfork of BIP65, yet, a week after release of 0.11.2 which has the deploy code in it, 36% of the hashrate has upgraded to the softfork
assbot: ... ( )
btcdrak: 3 months after release of XT, there 1 block out of 1000 mined.
mircea_popescu: btcdrak next we're going to follow what the solidcoin guy says ? who's next, atlas ? taaki ?
mircea_popescu: gimme a break.
btcdrak: Much lolworthy reading in this thread today about Mike's employment at R3CEV:
assbot: Mike Hearn now working for R3CV Blockchain Consortium : Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the thing with js is like so : it has two eigenstates. js.1 is "well, kinda useful to do some tasks browsewr side". as exemplified by say the trilema text select thing. way cheaper to do that client side than server side. js.2 however is "deploy code you can update yourself". ie, no need to ask people to update it for you.
mircea_popescu: now, js.1 is how it's sold to users ; but js.2 is why it's appealing to business. and for a long time - really, as long as rsm seemed to have teeth - this appeared to them (understandably) as a required pontoon bridge to have, jic.
mircea_popescu: i can follow the logic.
mircea_popescu: ironially, "programmers themselves" play exactly no part in all of this.
asciilifeform: why would they
asciilifeform: zey are ooonly foolllowing oorderz
mircea_popescu: exactly. sort-of like trying to achieve military results by "asking the troops".
phf: seems like conversation goes back to tomb raiding for books thread. can go and write code according to hyperspec, or vhdl a lispmachine, or whatever, but from b-a perspective the symbolics world of professional men deliberately solving problems with their lisp repl does not exist outside of the log, is superseded by the log. ultimately it's pretty pointless to point at a handful of sources and specs and expect others to share your
phf: castle in the sky visions.
mircea_popescu: armies move because of the interplay of production and consumption. talk to the traders.
mircea_popescu: phf except people on a regular basis DO share others' castles in the sky. it's just that they don't happen to be the very castles people hold most dear.
mircea_popescu: obviously, one's emotion has no public value.
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is the aspirational 2nd eigen state for "art", as hoped-for by various [failed, necessarily] artistes throughout the ages.)
asciilifeform does not expect or want anybody to ~move into~ his delusional castle, but enjoys having phriends, incl. a number of the folks here, who occasionally 'drop by for tea' in it
asciilifeform: the castle of it-is-possible-to-have-a-sanely-designed-computer, for instance
mircea_popescu: ironically, my foray into bitcoin was started by random guy on the internet [at the time hadn't used irc at all in decade +] insisting i move into his "GPG" castle.
mircea_popescu: and i was like, wow, srsly ? they got a castle ?
mircea_popescu: possibly all the trouble since then entirely rests on mp's pathologically complex misunderstanding of what that original guy actually meant.\
mircea_popescu: << reminds me of the "fathin", the guy who's only fat in the belly, skinny arms.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 20:59:26; asciilifeform: or richpoor
asciilifeform: aha the grotesque parallel is deliberate
mircea_popescu: << in this brothel when yo utake off your pants, so does a harlot.
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 21:05:11; asciilifeform: 'In smartparens, when you input a pair-able character: the matching pair gets inserted, too, and point is positioned inside the pair:...' << FOR FUCKS SAKE WHY
mircea_popescu: as well as a well built man
mircea_popescu: and somewhere in the horse, you can hear a distance squeal.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform does "Hasna" mean anything in russian ?
mircea_popescu: romanians took it from turkic, made it be "shittery"
mircea_popescu: ;;google haznaua politica
assbot: CPS - Album on Imgur ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 21:26:05; gabriel_laddel: adlai: imagine for a moment that you're writing a program which abstracts over a lab instrument's controls and does a visualization of the information it reads. The requirement is that people who use it will be intelligent, but not necessarily programmers.
mircea_popescu: mostly because it had been dead so long it was stinking up the place.
mircea_popescu: the last time someone could be useful in a professional capacity but not a programmer was perhaps 1935 ?
mircea_popescu: this is like proposing to make a book for "intelligent people that aren't necessarily literate" cca 1215. orly ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00051693 = 21.7628 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: re: see "Yeah no orals this go around unless mid cycle bloods are good then I'm gonna throw in some superdrol for super masturbation 😏"
assbot: Logged on 16-11-2015 04:02:53; mircea_popescu: do they take it with tylenol ?
assbot: Bloodwork... Don't drink on orals. : steroids ... ( )
BingoBoingo: And I thought my drinking was really testing the liver's hitpoints
shinohai: dafuq
BingoBoingo: shinohai: You've never seen a powered pepper grinder?
shinohai: I have a powered pepper grinder, just not of the drill attachment sort
asciilifeform: l0l i assumed the cock goes in the right end
asciilifeform: and the pepper is agitated by the drill chuck
shinohai: must be 2 1337 4 me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42320 @ 0.0005154 = 21.8117 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00051522 = 10.4074 BTC [-]
assbot: Reuters Issues a Worldwide Ban on RAW Photos ... ( )
asciilifeform: ok this is lulzy enough to be worth a monologue
asciilifeform: goes straight to:
asciilifeform: !s what color are your bits
assbot: 0 results for 'what color are your bits' :
asciilifeform: !s color bits
assbot: 7 results for 'color bits' :
asciilifeform: !s colour bits
assbot: 14 results for 'colour bits' :
asciilifeform: what can be inferred from BingoBoingo's link is that reuters has bought into some software sc4mz0r's idiocy where there is, presumably, a proggy which claims to distinguish between jpeg that was crapped out by a camera vs one that was downconverted from 'raw'
asciilifeform: (the latter being a bitwise dump of raw ccd output)
asciilifeform: 'RAW photos do allow for a greater degree of post-processing flexibility, so based on the new policy, it appears that Reuters found that photos processed from RAWs are more likely to distort the truth.' << as if one could not easily produce whatever jpeg is expected
ben_vulpes: i thought bitwise dumps went out forever ago.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not in $maxint dslr land
asciilifeform: iirc even ipnohe saves 'raw' internally
asciilifeform: (so that your flash fills faster, and goads you to buy $next phone)
ben_vulpes: when you say 'latter' do you mean the raw or the jpeg produced by the camera?
assbot: Inside Apple's perfectionism machine, adnotated ... ( )
asciilifeform: precisely as described there
ben_vulpes: ah, i thought you meant the jpegs were some simple transform from ccd to jpeg
asciilifeform: jpeg is a lossy compress thing
ben_vulpes: right
ben_vulpes is appropriately shamefaced
asciilifeform: back to the story,
asciilifeform: seems like reuters bought into some idiocy where a huckster promised to distinguish one stream of bits, having the correct 'colour' (as in the essay, nothing to do with optics, but politics) from another, identical stream, having undesirable colour.
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, no one bought into it, but is a cynical fraud with the public as the mark
asciilifeform: cheap credibility-spray.
kakobrekla: reality is shit therefore your pics must be shit as well.
asciilifeform: 'hey, our photos couldn't possibly be doctored, we perform $ritual !!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53168 @ 0.00052552 = 27.9408 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there could be enough detail here for a qntra piece, if you like.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll likely produce one in the morning. Got some scribbles of directions to wake up to.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu gotta revisit . wondering now if turk 'hazine', which we have as 'казна' -- 'treasury' -- has any relation to your toilet
assbot: Logged on 19-11-2015 23:48:20; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform does "Hasna" mean anything in russian ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: it does.
mircea_popescu: it's what it means in turkish.
asciilifeform: there we go!
asciilifeform: one man's treasure is another's ...
mircea_popescu: cazna, however, is romanian for... torture.
mircea_popescu: because lo and behold! romanians invented coke machine before you did.
asciilifeform: казнь
asciilifeform: ^ execution, but originally any serious punishment
asciilifeform: incl. the 3rd degree
asciilifeform: e.g., казни египетские == Plagues of Egypt (bib.)
mircea_popescu: it survives in romanian as a flavourful reflexive verb. to belabour oneself.
asciilifeform: казниться
asciilifeform: (to punish self, typ. anguish with remorse)
asciilifeform: reflexive.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what that reuters retardation is supposed to be.
asciilifeform proposed a hypothesis, see logz
mircea_popescu: so if i have footage that's valuable reuters aims not to buy it because of bureaucratic considerations ?
mircea_popescu: or is this a tacit admission that they don't have any valuable footage anyway.
asciilifeform: it's a totem
asciilifeform: faced with perfectly valid accusation of doctored photos (what lizard media mouthpiece hasn't these?) there is, naturally, a ritualistic defence
mircea_popescu: i guess.
asciilifeform: i suppose i ought to share the reasoning behind my hypothesis
asciilifeform: i follow (on and off) academiwanker pubs
asciilifeform: and the 'distinguish type of camera / detect photoshitting / by jpeg compression artifacts' is a trendy idiocy atm
asciilifeform: we are seeing the end product of a very particular variety of lysenkotron here
mircea_popescu: that i know.
mircea_popescu: seems more likely they want to be able to identify people/cameras , which raw does not allow
mircea_popescu: (as the processing is usally done in gimp on a linux box)
asciilifeform: were sold by some huckster 'identify people and cameras'
mircea_popescu: whereas if done on camera, much less rng, much less variation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can already fingerprint "smart"phones by the grav detector things
asciilifeform: only if you're a process running on the thing
asciilifeform: nothing to do with photo
asciilifeform: incidentally 'raw' offers trivial fingerprinting, as it carries sensor defects
asciilifeform: like soviet typewriter fp.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not after it's been put through the blender.
asciilifeform: no shit
asciilifeform: as if one could not rasterize jpeg, 'blender', then rejpegize
asciilifeform: which is why i believe that we are seeing the product of a theatrical voodoo production, rather than mathematical reasoning (however flawed)
asciilifeform: credibility-spray
asciilifeform: sorta like merit-spray and security-spray
asciilifeform: 'we used it and ergo credible so stfu'
asciilifeform: 'only a terrorist would operate a colour printer without yellow dot watermark, ergo either this page came out of yours, or you are accusing a loyal servant of the crown of terrorism'
asciilifeform: 'your fp was on this pistol, step this way sir'
asciilifeform: or, more recently, 'this nmr box proves that the accused has seen this knife before'
asciilifeform: all exactly the same scam
mircea_popescu: all scam are exactly the same scam
asciilifeform: also has another element, 'due process'
asciilifeform: 'you got due process, now stfu and sizzle in the electric chair' -- scalia
assbot: Logged on 11-10-2015 20:16:50; asciilifeform: it was, iirc, 'innocence is not a constitutional bar to punishment'
mircea_popescu: he has a point.
asciilifeform: of course.
asciilifeform: just not a point that 'rule of law' folks like to think about, at least publicly
asciilifeform: all usg vermin like to prattle re: how the law has a 'spirit' and the authors have 'intent' ~when it suits them~
asciilifeform: but it is also a mechanical thing that 'due processes' you, when likewise suits'em
asciilifeform: as per mircea_popescu's gold coins article
asciilifeform: or the one where 'iou' is legal for usg->chump bond repay, but not for chump->usg tax receipt
mircea_popescu: this is inescapable.
mircea_popescu: the alternative being cold equations.
asciilifeform: aha how else!
mircea_popescu: either you have people in charge or you do not.
asciilifeform: the scam is not in hitler's ability to 'cut off your lips if he doesn't like your face' but in the ~pretense~ at this strange 'rule of law' fiction
asciilifeform: the fiction specifically where it is not hitler but a faceless and indestructible (or at least, 'no reasonable person would try to destroy'...) thing that is doing the lip-cutting
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
mircea_popescu: a pretense isn't a scam. it's just a pretense.
mircea_popescu: (for the curious minds reading logs : the reason innocence CAN NOT, in any system, no matter how devised, ever be a bar to punishment is that innocence is a metaphysical concept, whereas punishment is physical. no matter what happens, the former will have to be processed, which is the name for moving across realms. no matters what happens this process will be lossy.)
mircea_popescu: at some point the question moves from "whether this man ought to be punished" to "whether this man will be punished".
mircea_popescu: no gallows can be built on an ought.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31350 @ 0.00052521 = 16.4653 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a specifically american delusion was the subject of scalia's thing
asciilifeform: where the prisoner supposedly has a shot at 'proving innocence' all the way until the switch is flipped and the chair sizzles
mircea_popescu: im not aware of this
mircea_popescu: what is it, more pop culture ?
asciilifeform: in a sense
asciilifeform: when, e.g., the rosenbergs, sizzled, prior to the day of, telephone was installed not only in their cells but in the room containing the chair
asciilifeform: so there is something like actual custom behind the notion
asciilifeform: scalia's verdict concerned 'dna test'
asciilifeform: which became a thing, and a case concerned whether an already-condemned man were legally entitled to a dnatronic testing
asciilifeform: his opinion held that he were not.
asciilifeform: (scalia's, that is)
asciilifeform: herrera v. collins.
asciilifeform: or hm, no dna in this one ?
asciilifeform: iirc it was a factor in the decision though. that usg would be broken by the expense of being required to offer dnatronics to all death row.
mircea_popescu: something like that.
mircea_popescu: (it's deeper : that any sort of process is broken if it has to be constantly revised by "emerging" metaphysical considerations. basically he ruled that yes, we do release freeze.)
asciilifeform: but in doing so broke with the pretence that a trial is ~actually~ about finding of physical fact.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.000526 = 14.6754 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the jury found as to the fact.
asciilifeform: (imagine if a judge and jury could themselves be executed, at ANY future point, if a future judge & jury were to find that the earlier had erred.)
asciilifeform: how would trial be conducted ?
mircea_popescu: this incidentally is exactly how bitbet works : once a bet has been resolved,
mircea_popescu: THAT RESOLUTION is the reality.
kakobrekla: apart from a few cases where bb fucked up.
mircea_popescu: not thast it never happened : it is not possible for it to have happened.
asciilifeform: and by same token when i start up my fortran and assign 4 to 2, the two integers become equal ?
asciilifeform wrote a lisp interpreter as a schoolboy where one could do this
mircea_popescu: there is no "same token".
asciilifeform: papal infallibility ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla pope ?
mircea_popescu: this is the absolute requisite for men to live in a world "as they wish it to be".
kakobrekla: iirc there was a case or two when the payment went to both sies
asciilifeform: pretty good pope record afaik
mircea_popescu: the alternative is exactly one, and it's known as "chaos" or generally other-bad-things.
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla is pope, mircea_popescu is god, cult transformation is complete
mircea_popescu: afaik kakobrekla has 0 involvement with resolutions on bitbet
kakobrekla: stfu pope sounds cool
mircea_popescu: a ok nm.
mircea_popescu: kakopopo
mircea_popescu: kakopope
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu << lol it tab completes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13408 @ 0.000526 = 7.0526 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39292 @ 0.00052603 = 20.6688 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100538 @ 0.00052093 = 52.3733 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106821 @ 0.00052634 = 56.2242 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: popabrekla.
mircea_popescu: if i ever meet his grandkids that;s what ima tell them to call him!
mircea_popescu: in other news, argentina has "many con chocolate", peanuts in black chocolate. fucking superb.
mircea_popescu: thye also have "higos con almendras", a cube of fig guts with an almond on top
mircea_popescu: i'll end up mayogendered and then everyone will hate me ;/
mircea_popescu: for good reason too
mircea_popescu: BUNCHA GEALOUS POORFAGS111
asciilifeform: i think you need hfcs and a truck for 'mayogender'
mircea_popescu: i dunno dude, all my suits were 48 for 20 years, now i'm doing 52.
asciilifeform: and one of those wheelchair things
asciilifeform dreamed last night that he rigged an engine to his office chair and decided to never leave it again
mircea_popescu: cuz with dong attachment ?
asciilifeform: wasn't specified
asciilifeform: but for some reason.
asciilifeform: iirc it was more sloth than lust
asciilifeform has four-bit emotion register, usually mapped to sloth/greed/wrath/lust
ben_vulpes: heh greed
asciilifeform: two-bit
asciilifeform: motherfucker
asciilifeform prolly ought to bed
mircea_popescu: two extra bits for paritits.
ben_vulpes: hyuuu
asciilifeform: l0l aha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18972 @ 0.00051671 = 9.803 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: it was a very surreal dream in a way which doesn't easily come across.
asciilifeform: had legs, could walk, but ~could not be arsed~
asciilifeform: sorta like if someone were to ask mircea_popescu to build ~his own~ gentoo etc.
asciilifeform: speaking of cults,
asciilifeform: who has seen the film 'sound of my voice' ?
asciilifeform: (or 'the east', by same chick - who wrote -and- lead in the film, about roughly the same thing)
asciilifeform: mega-filmz
asciilifeform: afaik she isn't in business any longer. which is imho a shame. was very much sui generis.
mircea_popescu: ican't say i did
mircea_popescu adds to list.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00051644 = 12.8852 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55136 @ 0.00051458 = 28.3719 BTC [-] {2}
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