Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-08-26 | 2015-08-28 →
BingoBoingo: It's been a while. Lotta no sync'd connected to me atm
assbot: dpaste: 1392AJG ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah i suspect not what he was expecting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2768 @ 0.00070473 = 1.9507 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: admittedly i have precious little notion of what these folks expect. what does ant expect under the magifying glass ?
asciilifeform: *magnifying
mircea_popescu: what is this terrorism
mircea_popescu: ant came over for tea.
mircea_popescu: isn't the world ant tea-rarium ?
asciilifeform: yes. and it serves tea.
asciilifeform: with polonium.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: neato
BingoBoingo knows why not airbox vacuum, but wonders why was never marketed
BingoBoingo: Not WTF, normal medical procedure.
BingoBoingo: ^ Also asciilifeform looks like one of your filipinos
lobbes: lol, "©NozWiz"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00070723 = 2.4753 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00069911 = 2.4119 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00071192 = 3.9512 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.0006978 = 3.6286 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00069638 = 3.4123 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00069638 = 4.4568 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.0007017 = 6.4556 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00069638 = 3.656 BTC [-]
cazalla: <<< yet down under people believe a borderline retard was able to shoot up port arthur like a total fucking crack commando.. anyway this guy could've used a gopro instead of mobile phone
assbot: Logged on 26-08-2015 20:05:56; trinque: squeezed off 3-4 at <10ft? target runs away?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4955 @ 0.00069638 = 3.4506 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00069638 = 1.6713 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00069638 = 2.1588 BTC [-]
assbot: Social recluse made £300,000 in internet scam run from his bedroom | Technology | The Guardian ... ( )
cazalla: back to that mr robot, ugly yet sexy body asian 3d printing lady for a moment..
assbot: 'Mr. Robot' Finale Postponed Over Plot Similarity to Virginia TV Shooting - Hollywood Reporter ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00069964 = 3.7081 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00070062 = 3.8534 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1467 @ 0.00070344 = 1.0319 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3151 @ 0.00070496 = 2.2213 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00069726 = 3.556 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00070616 = 3.2483 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00070666 = 2.8266 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2699 @ 0.00069666 = 1.8803 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.00070762 = 1.486 BTC [+]
assbot: How a One-Man ETF Shop Attracted $1.4 Billion in Just 8 Months - Bloomberg Business ... ( )
assbot: PureFunds ... ( )
assbot: Sanford Wallace Pleads Guilty To Spamming Facebook Users And Disobeying A Court Order | USAO-NDCA | Department of Justice ... ( )
assbot: Former Executive Pleads Guilty To Conspiring To Bribe Panamanian Officials | USAO-NDCA | Department of Justice ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00069638 = 1.8802 BTC [-]
shinohai: such propoganda
punkman: the first one was the best
assbot: Heard of China’s Fake Rolexes? Now There’s a Fake Goldman Sachs - Bloomberg Business ... ( )
assbot: Webmaster Intern / Partner for a new Business Development Firm ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2696 @ 0.00069739 = 1.8802 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4702 @ 0.00070512 = 3.3155 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00070337 = 1.1957 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00070545 = 2.0458 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00070675 = 2.6857 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9589 @ 0.00070762 = 6.7854 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00070774 = 2.5479 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: New design makes it look like cheap scam... : Bitcoin ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.0007085 = 2.9757 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: shinohai: << ain't nobody's fault white people suck.
mircea_popescu: assbot: New design makes it look like cheap scam <<< because.... it .... is .
mircea_popescu: who the fuck thought was not a cheap scam at any point.
mircea_popescu: "This will quickly change if you are one of us." << heh, check it out, dude wants slaves an' doesn't even know it. because a) slavery is not a thing in the us, right, the idea just came to him out of nowhere, not out of watching the sv muppets and making the next teeeny tinsy incremental stop and b) it's a really fucking great idea to go slave for a dude that doesn't even know that's what it is. 2nd best after going fo
mircea_popescu: r a ride with some guy who doesn't know that's what you call it when you "push pedals in the car and stuff". what could possibly go wrong, other than everything (and you'll get blamed for it).
shinohai: slavers gonna slave
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00070389 = 1.3726 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: << somebody could achieve great lulz by making a similar poster, featuring just as many folks who have raped usg and are still laughing all the way to the bank - the 'indicted' chinese army folks, bogachev, buncha others
assbot: BTCChina Support Gives BIP 100 Bitcoin Hashrate Majority ... ( )
asciilifeform: srsly, the good cop/bad cop algo in use with the two 'bips' couldn't be more obvious
fluffypony: yeah, but BIP 100 is still the lesser of two evils
asciilifeform: fluffypony: in the same sense as being anally expanded with a baseball bat is lesser evil vs. same with telephone pole
assbot: Logged on 25-08-2015 17:26:07; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the chinese are actually fucktarded enough to allow usg to not get its wish but nevertheless move the window in not getting it, we'll probably not only de-thread it but rewrite the whole sheband, and with a better pow algo at that.
thestringpuller: Not getting anally expanded at all is the ideal solution. Although it reminds me of the South Park game where you have to give Randy a fake abortion in which you abort one of his turds as to prove you are a doctor and he is a lady getting an abortion. Don't think this relevant...but you know.
kakobrekla: >BTCChina will vote for a 2MB limit < afaik bitfury said same
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00071031 = 3.9422 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: ofc there that difference of talking the path and walking the path.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00070111 = 1.8579 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5014 @ 0.00070062 = 3.5129 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00071101 = 4.8704 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2305 @ 0.00071189 = 1.6409 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00071259 = 8.9074 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00071389 = 6.782 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00070025 = 3.1511 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00071384 = 3.0695 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: so this morning I call the closest laptop repair shop off the yellow pages, tell the guy I need so-and-so repaired and X,Y,Z removed. "you should come by so I can take a look at it", "I can come by this afternoon, will you have time to work on it while I'm there?" "yes".
punkman: I went, agreed to price that was approaching cost of laptop, then he passes me a fucking form to fill out. "I'm not leaving the machine here, I have to be present" "oh never mind then, I can't help you".
punkman: from the business in Luxor department.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3640 @ 0.00070025 = 2.5489 BTC [-]
assbot: Raspberry PI hang instruction | NowSecure Blogs ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00070723 = 4.8799 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00071419 = 4.3566 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3244 @ 0.00070025 = 2.2716 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00070636 = 1.8365 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
mats: ascii_field: have you ever actually looked at grsec mitigations?
ascii_field: mats: aha
assbot: Onion Explains: Global Nuclear Proliferation​ - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( )
assbot: I think you drastically overestimate the military importance of nuclear weapons. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mats: it seems log.b-a is dropping stuff, i can't find things from e.g. 02APR2015
mats: whos on that? mthreat?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3850 @ 0.00070636 = 2.7195 BTC [+]
mats: anyway... [2015-04-02 16:59:20] <asciilifeform> mats: i can trivially make mincemeat of this by issuing raw dma cycles. << UDEREF is about exploitation, not constraining the kernel
mats: did quite a bit of reading today into various linux mitigations and it seems you didn't get that selinux/grsec RBAC are fundamentally about constraining usermode
ascii_field: mats: i know what they are nominally about, yes
mats: i'd also like to know what mitigations you think increase attack surface
ascii_field: mats: that's easy: any and all of them which add complexity
ascii_field: that is, add lines of code, or add effort necessary to understand per-line
mats: does this exclude all of the compile time stuff?
ascii_field: includes everything.
ascii_field: everything that i might ever need to be exposed to to understand the whole of the system.
ascii_field: and you don't get to say that i should not wish to do this.
ascii_field: and by 'understand' i mean - if necessary - to recreate from piles of atoms sorted by mendeleev table position.
mats: so: chroot, perf, ptrace hardening? increases complexity in your opinion?
ascii_field: variably. but yes, they do.
ascii_field: aslr certainly does
mats: saying complexity increases to attack surface is a simplification at best and misleading at worst
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2430 @ 0.00070021 = 1.7015 BTC [-] {2}
mats: complexity increases attack surface*
ascii_field: but it does.
ascii_field: mats: what's more, if this isn't immediately obvious, your concept of 'attack surface' is broken.
mats: it is deceptively obvious.
mats: there is a quantitative approach that can be taken, lets say:
mats: the whole of the kernel's static call graph, and all possible entry points an attacker can utilize
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mats: and then there's the much less measurable thing i presume you're talking about, which is those leaks that result from 'fits in head'
ascii_field: mats: no.
mats: or rather, an inability to
ascii_field: and my measure is exquisitely measurable
mats: what then? klocs?
ascii_field: how many bits of info it would take to teach a martian to build a copy of the machine.
ascii_field: (assuming he knows of semiconduction and that's more or less it)
mats: you make this so difficult
ascii_field: exquisitely easy.
ascii_field: and weasel-proof.
mats: why not suggest something that can actually be modeled
ascii_field: i did.
ascii_field: why should i let you set the ground rules ? i understand how transistor works, how vlsi is carried out; how to build cpu. why should i accept the idiocy soup as the bedrock abstraction ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00069911 = 3.0761 BTC [-]
mats: because the way i see it, the thing that you describe maintains fluid form precisely to resist any kind of meaningful description
ascii_field: mats: i have often named historical examples of 'fits in head.' but you choose to ignore them. why ?
ascii_field: e.g. minix-1. msdos. bk-0010.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00069863 = 8.6281 BTC [-]
mats: i'm bowled over by the thought that you believe that e.g. the 'msdos' security model is a good idea
ascii_field: mats: don't conflate 'msdos complexity' for 'msdos security model'
ascii_field: not to mention that 'msdos security' - if the thing is used as prescribed, single-task, non-networked apparatus - is very hard to beat.
mats: despite living in a world where there are many computers to a person, folks still understandably want to be able to run more than a single application per computer
ascii_field: 'consumers have come to expect !!!11!!!'
mats: now who is conflating what
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1564 @ 0.00069911 = 1.0934 BTC [+]
ascii_field: mats: picture if you had the unenviable task of teaching africans not to drink their own shit. now imagine you show up at the village and say, 'one must dig latrine pit on other side of the village from the well'. and they answer,
ascii_field: 'folks still understandably want to drink water wherever they find it, and not have to walk far to the shitter'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00069911 = 2.7615 BTC [+]
mats: i am mindfucked by your argumentation and have nothing left to share
deedbot-: [Qntra] Many Pools Rejecting XT in Favor of Other Undefined Fork -
mats: this represents such a regression in so many ways i am unable to count them
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mats: it is possible to build computer which ~genuinely~ isolates processes. just like it is possible to build indoor plumbing which reliably separates shitwater and drinking water.
ascii_field: but you have to actually want to do this.
ascii_field: it is of course much easier to drink shit while mumbling mitigat^H^H^Hincantations to the gods
BingoBoingo: Versaille was a regression from do not shit in residence without removing shit.
trinque: speaking as a fool, this seems like two gentlemen talking entirely at crossways. on the one hand, what do I do with all these monstrous linux machines I'm already using? (perhaps tape, if you have nothing else) and on the other hand, what would I build to replace the whole mess
trinque: but isn't that right there in the word "mitigation"
trinque: obviously rendering the thing mitigated impossible is better.
ascii_field: trinque: specifically concerning process separation - the thing to do with existing machines is - 1 per task.
ascii_field: equivalent of well/latrine separation
ascii_field: and this is discussed in mircea_popescu's 'airgap' article.
trinque: I can see that point; we spoke of the human fuel gauge scenario recently
trinque: or the person sitting with a serial terminal allowing or denying messages enter/exit the system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00069911 = 2.6566 BTC [+]
trinque: *of the
ben_vulpes: << the americans who stopped the guy shooting up a train in france received their legion of honor medals in...
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 07:38:34; cazalla: <<< yet down under people believe a borderline retard was able to shoot up port arthur like a total fucking crack commando.. anyway this guy could've used a gopro instead of mobile phone
ben_vulpes: khakis and polos.
gernika: BingoBoingo: not sure if "compromise" vs. "comprise" was intentional or not. Also seems like the sentence starting with "As particulars..." is missing something. re:
assbot: Many Pools Rejecting XT in Favor of Other Undefined Fork | Qntra ... ( )
BingoBoingo: gernika: intentional, fixed
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The heir apparent. -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3785 @ 0.00069745 = 2.6398 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: "Processing triggers for systemd" << i throw up when I see this at work
thestringpuller: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Congratulations on the spawn! :D
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Major props on the cloning effort
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3196 @ 0.00069911 = 2.2344 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4748 @ 0.0006966 = 3.3075 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6835 @ 0.00070266 = 4.8027 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: "you spell like a girl"
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski congrats, boss
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1684 @ 0.00070532 = 1.1878 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 17:26:30; mats: it seems log.b-a is dropping stuff, i can't find things from e.g. 02APR2015
assbot: Homeland Security Raids - Hit & Run : ... ( )
kakobrekla: as for the search, i know of at least one reasons that it should be resynced fully
mircea_popescu: !up moonpunter
mircea_popescu: sure. who're you ?
moonpunter: what is assbot looking for, if i manage my keys with enigmail?
moonpunter: paul madore
mircea_popescu: it checks sks iirc.
mircea_popescu: is your key listed ?
moonpunter: one sec
moonpunter: i just uploaded it there a few minutes ago. probably have to wait a bit.
mircea_popescu: and jesus god trilema comments are something else. at the same time there's a woman telling me how incredibly right i was, and some derp telling me how incredibly wrong ~i'm going to be~. pointless and witless on parade, neverending, eternal.
mircea_popescu: moonpunter give it like half hour or something yea.
moonpunter: funkenstein_ might vouch/rate me :)
moonpunter: in the meantime
mircea_popescu: ok, that inadiquet thing rules. "i need feminism because i am stupid and white. if i were black i'd need rakim on a horse."
moonpunter: i find it ironic that mike hearn is taking issue with people using the word "dictators" although he was originally the one who suggested that gavin be a benevolent dictator
mircea_popescu: << let them fragment. nobody cares, and no, neither is going to actually get implemented.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 14:29:09; fluffypony: yeah, but BIP 100 is still the lesser of two evils
mircea_popescu: the funny thing is that the usg is so very fucking convinced all the bs stuff it's powered by works in bitcoin too
mircea_popescu: because "everywhere is here!!11" and so yeah, totally, astro turfing, "the controversy", "moving the window" and whatnot.
moonpunter: transparency favors no authority but legitimate authority
mircea_popescu: meanwhile bitcoin is still not for the poor, they can dance until they fall over for all the good it's gonna do.
mircea_popescu: and THIS point MUST be actually verified in practice. and not only once, either.
cazalla: moonpunter, same paul madore that writes for cryptocoinsnews?
mircea_popescu: moonpunter mike is too young to know exactly what is the fate of being in the us army. how you get bombed silly from all directions while trying to follow nonsensical directives.
mircea_popescu: he should have been in vietnam.
moonpunter is an iraq infantry vet
moonpunter: but vietnam was a real war in my book.
moonpunter: well, real combat.
moonpunter: "overwhelming force" doctrine made us feel more like cops on patrol than soldiers saving innocents.
mircea_popescu: << lol why not just buy a phillips screwdriver and be done with it ?
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 16:06:31; punkman: from the business in Luxor department.
mircea_popescu: no repair shop does anything other than what you normally do with desktops
mircea_popescu: but hey, the closed box folks managed to wrest an entire business space away from the user with the shitty screws./
mircea_popescu: moonpunter ask an individual that participated. seven days a week consisted of bad leadership and getting pounded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0007094 = 4.2564 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: mats / ascii_field the dispute you're engaged in looks to me like a failure to agree upon terminology. alf thinks in terms of "competent user". mitigation as generally discussed thinks in term of "usg-spawned monkey which was allowed at a keyboard for no conceivable reason". in this later case, hotgluing the usb hole is a valid mitigation technique.
mircea_popescu: and in fact no mitigation thingee out there does anything else.
mircea_popescu: << it is formally simple. which is what he means by "easy", but also what easy eminently is not. formally simplest is always the hardest.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 17:49:32; mats: you make this so difficult
mircea_popescu: moonpunter aha! so you dispute the summary ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: no repair shop does anything other than what you normally do with desktops << I couldn't readily repair this one at home
mircea_popescu: can't find the part ?
mircea_popescu: this is what they do you realise, order replacement parts ?
mircea_popescu: nobody's sitting there with an amp meter and a soldering iron.
kakobrekla: which usually cost more than the lappy itself
mircea_popescu: depends, but often enough yeah.
moonpunter: i just think he's ridiculous to take offense to people using a term he himself introduced. anyone with half a brain would never use a term like that and expect an intelligent group to not dissect and then turn it around on them.
mircea_popescu: i suspect many laptops are sold in the manner of printers. except you pay for "service" instead of "cartridges"
punkman: plenty of folks do soldering
mircea_popescu: moonpunter that part for sure. then again his target aren't intelligent people, nor any people likely to try and think the matter through independently.
mircea_popescu: but i'm more curious about how you view the vietnam thing in your own experience.
moonpunter: the computer store up the block charged less for a 25 foot cable than to simply put the adapter on for me. annoying. came home and immediately bought a $8 tool off ebay.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 18:18:04; mats: this represents such a regression in so many ways i am unable to count them
mircea_popescu: << you blessfully ignore the part where THEY CAN BARELY AFFORD A CHAIR. you understand this, do you ? the schmucks that are "ceo"s and whatnot, can barely afford their own breakfast ? the reason airbnb HAS TO exist is because if they can't sleep on each other's bike rags they can't "go to conferences" and prop up the whole word cloud ?
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 18:23:50; ascii_field: trinque: specifically concerning process separation - the thing to do with existing machines is - 1 per task.
mircea_popescu: what 1 per machine.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 227.36, vol: 13303.28171619 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 223.94, vol: 7362.17955 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 227.52, vol: 12673.27965693 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 229.17, vol: 3.22033114 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 225.684697, vol: 18938.35790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 228.2126, vol: 227.69261178 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 233.552156519, vol: 47.87118763 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: average: 226.3252532
kakobrekla: > the schmucks that are "ceo"s and whatnot, can barely afford their own breakfast ? <
mircea_popescu: check it out, <marquee> lives on!
mats: i suppose we should define terminology, then: what does it mean for something to be 'single-task'? what abstraction level is non-arbitrary (or appropriate)?
mats: shall we boot up a machine for every x server of every gui-level application we wish to run, because there is no such thing yet as gui-level isolation?
mircea_popescu: << all sorts of interesting assumptions in there, such as "the toiletries don't matter because we don't like to think about them, being puritans" ; or "even plants need multiple times their mass in nutrients over extended periods, but you'll fit your stuff in ONE cupboard alright". this all doiesn't much interest me, because while obvious to anyone thinking
mircea_popescu: , it was certainly entirely obscure to the target. one point however was not : three people, two beds. so did they assume the immature human naturally sleeps in bed with her father or mother ? which of those two individuals aren't really separate in the thoughts of the intended viewer ?
mircea_popescu: which of these three*
mircea_popescu: mats i don't see a way to implement his scheme as anything but running dozens of machines to replace my desktop. which, in fairness, was one of the proposed approaches back in the 70s.
mircea_popescu: also in fairness, it didn't survive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6288 @ 0.00070805 = 4.4522 BTC [-] {3}
mats: how does anybody meaningfully build on e.g. 'msdos' when it has only one operating mode, is purposed for a 'single-task', and doesn't blow up when some level of the abstraction (that by any reasonable person could be reasoned as multi-task if it is to do anything useful, e.g, graphics, networking, file system access!!1) has a bug in it?
mircea_popescu: notably graphics is not multitask.
mircea_popescu: to this day the array scans.
mats: ok
mircea_popescu: networking is chiefly multitasking because of the way it's implemented. but even in systems built to mt, there's a dedicated box added outside.
mircea_popescu: you could in principle then just have a dedicated process for single task networking.
mircea_popescu: in short : contrary to what peoiple think, there is no actual scope for decisionmaking in systems design.
mats: systems programmers are the high priests of a low cult
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00070726 = 1.2023 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [bitcoin-dev] BIPS proposal for implementing AML-KYC in bitcoin ... ( )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: << if speaking of existing hardware, there is no shortage of 'computers' which cost pocket change and each can run just about anything one might care to
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 20:37:00; mircea_popescu: mats i don't see a way to implement his scheme as anything but running dozens of machines to replace my desktop. which, in fairness, was one of the proposed approaches back in the 70s.
ascii_field: (e.g. pogo)
ascii_field: and i'm not speaking of junkyard iron, either, but brand-new
ascii_field: << these hidey-holes were meant to house people for ~six weeks, while the hottest fallout clears
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 20:35:43; mircea_popescu: << all sorts of interesting assumptions in there, such as "the toiletries don't matter because we don't like to think about them, being puritans" ; or "even plants need multiple times their mass in nutrients over extended periods, but you'll fit your stuff in ONE cupboard alright". this all doiesn't much interest me, because while obvious
mircea_popescu: ascii_field im not too keep to manage a larger count of items.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: and that's how american houses got those toilet/washroom combos.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field how much shit is produced in six weeks by a group of three people ? not counting the water it flushes with, just the shit.
ascii_field: 'too many items'
mircea_popescu: because it wouldn't fit in that stupid cupboard.
mircea_popescu: and no. just look at all the "Whitegoods" and the proliferation thereof. usians love item count like they love their absent virility.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is no deep secret that the 'shelter industry' was largely part cargo-cult, part 'i wanna build a wine cellar without wife bitching'
ascii_field: !s man cave
assbot: 13 results for 'man cave' :
mircea_popescu: sure. but specifically what interests me there is, which two sleep in the same cot.
ascii_field: so there is the imaginary reality of the sales pitch, but a separate physical reality of what these were used for.
ascii_field: nobody sleeps in the fucking cot. the husband, if he's lucky, bangs secretary in that cot.
mircea_popescu: but in the picture
ascii_field: let's also put a flying unicorn in the picture.
mircea_popescu: but they didn't.
mircea_popescu: we don't get to alter artefacts.
ascii_field: they put equally magical 'non-shitting princess'
mircea_popescu: the girl (i think it's a girl ?) setting the table does not shit ? why's she get a plate then ?
mircea_popescu: (and how convenient she's female - i'd like to see someone keep a 19yo guy pinned down with the old folks for six weeks.)
mircea_popescu: (and yet he should be - in practical terms a population that spends x on sheltering women and x on sheltering men will fare ~35% worse than a population that just spends 2x on sheltering men. because women are for many reasos much much harider)
mircea_popescu: (those reasons being chiefly that woman comes with fully formed ovules pre-packaged. an ovary is essentially a bunch of candy-wrapped m&ms, and her period consists of one of those wrappers being torn. whereas a male comes with a sperm CREATION mechanism. so if the male is damaged, the male is out. if the female is damaged she'll just ovulate a different skittle.)
mircea_popescu: and if you think about it for a moment, it should be apparent why any sort of an alternative scheme wouldn't even work. given that yes, radiation is a fact of cosmos.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2928 @ 0.00071219 = 2.0853 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: << people had trouble with the celltowers of 1915, too.
ascii_field: !s cixi
assbot: 11 results for 'cixi' :
mircea_popescu: "Electricity". like "Internet" and "Bitcoin"
ascii_field: it took more than one electrocuted drunk to drive the point home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00071519 = 3.7547 BTC [+] {4}
ascii_field: (for added lulz, proper insulation was not yet discovered, cloth and tar were sop)
mircea_popescu: tar was still used for insulation in 4.5V batteries when i was a kid. and the cells were paper wrapped.
ascii_field: it was ~the~ battery to me, aha
ascii_field: still pissed they don't exist in usa
ascii_field: nonshitting princess is on left hand of this photo.
mircea_popescu: backed up princess is going to be unplugged.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: and yes this was an actual thing. behold the president/initiator :
mircea_popescu: (do not click the above if you have any reason to suspect the glass in your monitor is weak)
trinque dry-heaves
trinque: denial's as old as history
mircea_popescu: that's exactly the woman's problem, you know, how to not get fucked. seriously.
trinque: how dare anyone suggest otherwise, in fact.
trinque: guy's face is excellent
mircea_popescu: girl's better imo.
trinque: well for different reasons!
trinque: lol
assbot: Clarity on the CoinTelegraph Speculation ... ( )
mircea_popescu: she holds her own just fine, and she's on fucking stilts and backed against a wall.
mircea_popescu: look at the narrow uneven shit she stands on, even
trinque now notices the differences in posture
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no way im reading that nightmare in prose.
BingoBoingo: That's fair' I didn't even read the whole thing either
mircea_popescu: trinque which is why the man is humble, and squinting. he sees what you see and wonders how to go about it.
mircea_popescu: this is also ~why~ you put young women on the fucking stilts and back them against the wall.
mircea_popescu: and obviously, why the fat stupoid failures that protest lost before the game even begun.
ascii_field: << dunno which usa mircea_popescu was thinking of, but the one i live in contains bozos who shell out for $3k 'macbooks' etc.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 20:11:36; mircea_popescu: << you blessfully ignore the part where THEY CAN BARELY AFFORD A CHAIR. you understand this, do you ? the schmucks that are "ceo"s and whatnot, can barely afford their own breakfast ? the reason airbnb HAS TO exist is because if they can't sleep on each other's bike rags they can't "go to conferences" and prop up the whole word cloud ?
mircea_popescu: the usa you live in, much like the argentina i live in, is wholly made up of people who buy the fucking yearl agendas on time.
trinque: mircea_popescu: hm, yeah. the advantage of being able to drop a jaw by merely existing?
mircea_popescu: what shell out? how many usians do you know that EVER owed 3k free and clear, in their hands ?
mircea_popescu: trinque not at all!
trinque: ah, then I don't follow
mircea_popescu: not like it's going anywhere.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> ah, then I don't follow << They "shell out" for macbooks the same way hamplanets do for "king ranch" credit
trinque: streams are crossed; I was talking about the hot lady on the film set.
trinque: I am well aquainted with the fake CEOs of the fake software industry, haha
mircea_popescu: now showing... tarzan.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3121 @ 0.00071559 = 2.2334 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up moonpunter
mircea_popescu: !gettrust moonpunter
assbot: moonpunter is not registered in WoT.
moonpunter: still saying not valid, but as you can see in that link, i've uploaded the key...
kakobrekla: run the command on chan
moonpunter: !register 6310 C4E0 B0E9 7287 A3CF EBAD 8515 F76E ADCF D13C
assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.
kakobrekla: remove spaces
moonpunter: oh...
moonpunter: !register 6310C4E0B0E97287A3CFEBAD8515F76EADCFD13C
assbot: Searching for key with fingerprint: 6310C4E0B0E97287A3CFEBAD8515F76EADCFD13C. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key ADCFD13C / "phm ( <>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
moonpunter: typical /me retardation
moonpunter: thank you
kakobrekla: lots of folks fall in that hole. np.
BingoBoingo: A few folks though fall into lots of holes
moonpunter: i fall into k-holes
mircea_popescu: !rate moonpunter 1 falls into holes.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.moonpunter.1:cba5be8d0eca0eeaf501a07aa95bf5e67f9be674da9491d8ad0f85d5df73db9f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for moonpunter with note: falls into holes.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen adlai
gribble: adlai was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 18 hours, 57 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Adlai> !down Adlai
mircea_popescu: i guess that settles that.
mircea_popescu: !unrate adlai
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.unrate.adlai:4815aef3f452efc113340bc91579662c4cb4c996da005dae934ec757866c19e8
assbot: Successfully unrated adlai
mircea_popescu: on the topic of falling into holes, the ability to back up the shit one comes up with being like the #1 requirement of manhood.
assbot: NOFX - Kids of the K-Hole - YouTube ... ( )
moonpunter: !rate mircea_popescu +1 [crypto wizard]
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
moonpunter: was the + needless?
mircea_popescu: wow, i thought the k-hole was some sort of play on r/K selection
kakobrekla: and the square brackets.
moonpunter: no, i was referring to ketamine
moonpunter: followed Furthur for awhile a few years ago, before i got married
moonpunter: long story.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3540 @ 0.00071559 = 2.5332 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: waiwut?!! Adlai pankakked ?!
ag3nt_zer0: good afternoon folks
ag3nt_zer0: ho goes it?
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: afternoon. goes okay, yourself?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3221 @ 0.00071469 = 2.302 BTC [-]
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: hey there going alright thx. just gettin home from the work
ag3nt_zer0: you know, i am thankful to have the chance to whisper some renegade think-for-yourselfisms into the impressionable ears of kids, through music nonetheless, but dude it doesn't take long in these classrooms to realize how fucked this country is by virtue of how undisciplined/spoiled rotten these kids are - relative to the soberness of student bodies in say china or india...
thestringpuller: you talkin bout US?
ag3nt_zer0: this fucking kid yesterday: I have him count sing this simple 4-beat card - he does a pretty good job which I greet, perhaps shameful in restrospect, with enthusiasm... and then i say, "the only thing I would suggest could be better is holding the beats all the way through"
ag3nt_zer0: the kid says, age 6, "you are insulting me"
ag3nt_zer0: yeah US
trinque googles trilema anal child, is shocked to find that every result lacks the word trilema
trinque: well not shocked, but you know.
ag3nt_zer0: i said "no i'm not"
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: when the food thing is empty, you scream
thestringpuller: the spoiled phenomenon is a matter of circumstance in my opinion
ag3nt_zer0: he said "yes you are"
ag3nt_zer0: I say "go sit down"
trinque: when you have to shit, you just shit through the bottom of the cage
trinque: isn't this what life is?
thestringpuller: i know plenty of parents who came from the "the hood" and spoil their children now that they are well off
trinque: oh and most importantly, if no one pays attention to you, you scream louder still
trinque: not being paid attention to constantly is the most horrible thing that can happen to a person!
ag3nt_zer0: and all the admins running around alerting me to the endless list of "allergies" and sensitivity and "spectrum" issues that the little shits with their sick mothers dream up in the organic med aisle at whole foods
thestringpuller: and this cant be a localized phenomenon in time and space there should be spoiled children throughout history and in many different places
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: yes
ag3nt_zer0: thstringpuller: yes
trinque: sure, there were spoiled children as there were turds throughout time
trinque: what's done with them is the question
ag3nt_zer0: I hear in India that once a student is asked to leave a school... thats it, forever.
ag3nt_zer0: no more school, ever, for them
ag3nt_zer0: yeah wahst done with them
ag3nt_zer0: and I think i mentioned it earlier about the "positive discipline" plan these pussies follow... no raising of voice, no calling out kids on the spot, in other words all things that pput them in their place and establish that heirarchy are now "abusive" and outmoded because tradition = dumb - or whatever
ag3nt_zer0: anyway, Im in it for the money
trinque: a dead body goes through all sorts of stages of rot, none of them reversible
ag3nt_zer0: its really just the living reflection of their ugly-minded parents
gernika: I wonder what is the sane mode of behavior for a child stuck in the public school system? Perhaps to make it work it actually is necessary to hit them and yell at them, but should it be made to work?
ag3nt_zer0: depnds on if the teacher has anything of value to pass on i suppose
ag3nt_zer0: most dont
ag3nt_zer0: so , no, it shouldnt be made to work and yes it makes sense thatr the kids are fucking retarded
ag3nt_zer0: or, insane
gernika: I think I asked the wrong question actually - but I'm not sure how to put it in terms of causes instead of purposes.
mircea_popescu: !up protn
protn: :)
protn: folks do u trade here?
protn: btc and or shares, indexes
kakobrekla: there are a few traders
mircea_popescu: <ag3nt_zer0> i said "no i'm not" << the one remarkable quality of six year olds is how quickly they can transform adults, even if specially trained, into other six year olds :D
BingoBoingo: Pretty much anything can be traded here.
mircea_popescu: !rated protn
assbot: protn is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: prolly best see to that first.
protn: i mean not here
protn: but overall
mircea_popescu: you want to know if we trade here not here ?
protn: lol
kakobrekla: i trade also there.
mircea_popescu: a rare case of win-win.
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 8500 @ 0.00039 = 3.315 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <gernika> I wonder what is the sane mode of behavior for a child stuck in the public school system? << what the black kids do. fuck all the girls in class by the age they're 14, and whether they want to or not.
mircea_popescu: then move on.
kakobrekla: !s bitfinex engine
assbot: 0 results for 'bitfinex engine' :
mircea_popescu: !s two cans and string
assbot: 17 results for 'two cans and string' :
mircea_popescu: same principlex.
assbot: Critical issues with Bitfinex trading engine : BitcoinMarkets ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !up moonpunter
mircea_popescu: no, you need to self-voice. pm assbot !up
BingoBoingo: !down moonpunter
gernika: mircea_popescu I suppose that's one thing you couldn't do in a private all boys boarding school as opposed to a public school.
mircea_popescu: the all boys/all girls thing is beyond retarded anyway.
kakobrekla: I have a friend that made like 120 BTC because he could buy really cheap Bitcoins during a past flashcrash. From those 120, he only got 20 out. Bitfinex told him: sorry there was a trading engine problem. You never really bought 120 Bitcoins.
kakobrekla: forgot to add ">"
kakobrekla: anyway, losses suck it up, winning trading engine issue
mircea_popescu: it's quite obvious they won't pay the >10mn they owe on perfectly good claims to various users.
mircea_popescu: this because the usg is a great expert at making claims and putting forth pretense, but can't generally pay a cup of coffee if it comes to it.
mircea_popescu recalls the lulzy instance when "big deal" silicon valley firm wanted to talk but a) principals "didn't have the time" to come visit and b) they really didn't see "why i'd need" three first class tickets + hotel of "pick from this list" + the rest of the rider.
deedbot-: [Trilema] The function and the functioning of art. -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00071559 = 5.6889 BTC [+]
gernika: They were probably shocked you weren
assbot: Griffin Dunne v Dennis Hopper (Search and Destroy, 1995) - YouTube ... ( )
gernika: 't enticed by free soda
mircea_popescu: if only more people drank the damned fizzy pop thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00071559 = 3.5064 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00071559 = 3.7926 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'Now I seriously think of moving to Argentina. This nation already survived the horrific default of 2001, military dictatorship, deindustrialization and various other calamities, and came through it all with its dignity intact. They know how to be poor but happy (unlike Russians) and without neuroses (unlike Americans)—I saw this with my own eyes.' (guest orlolz,
assbot: ClubOrlov ... ( )
asciilifeform: un minimo respeto por el trabajador!!!!11111
asciilifeform: << must dig out this thread, because this is when i point out that the generalization of this principle - 'if it really has to happen all the time, it ought to have dedicated silicon' - is called 'dataflow computation'
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 20:42:00; mircea_popescu: networking is chiefly multitasking because of the way it's implemented. but even in systems built to mt, there's a dedicated box added outside.
asciilifeform: and it exists in isolated instances in your computer right now. for instance, disk has own computer. as does your vga card, which, as mircea_popescu pointed out, must scan forever
asciilifeform: walking a dual-ported ram again, again...
asciilifeform: modern network chip is also implemented in quite the same way - it gets a chunk of memory to itself and drops incoming frames there, and waits for magic bit upon which it will crap out its buffer (also there) onto the wire
asciilifeform: who does not believe this, can pick a favourite vendor and read the data sheet (or his kernel's driver for the item)
asciilifeform: in 'dataflow' concept, your computer is actually a barrel full of very small computers. most of them perhaps idling at any given time.
asciilifeform: the funniest thing is that, as described earlier, we already have this. in retarded form.
asciilifeform: (where all but a handful of'em are entirely opaque and nonprogrammable, and, direly, not the least bit inspectable..)
asciilifeform: << i know of a fella who was in gulf war I. his father looked down on him for not having suffered being taken prisoner in vietnam; his father's father looked down on the latter for not having been abused by north koreans in korean war captivity; and his uncle - for not having been in japanese prison camp in ww2.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 19:57:22; moonpunter: but vietnam was a real war in my book.
asciilifeform: *father's uncle
asciilifeform: !up moonpunter
asciilifeform: moonpunter: what happened to your key ?
asciilifeform: moonpunter: message assbot instead
moonpunter: sorry
moonpunter: no someone !downed me earlier
asciilifeform: moonpunter: well yes, it was so you could test getting yourself up again
asciilifeform: let's try that again
asciilifeform: !down moonpunter
asciilifeform: hm assbot down ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla ?
kakobrekla: oddly enough i got last 3 lines before 'worx' in the same half a second
kakobrekla: mitm machines garbage collector at work
BingoBoingo: <moonpunter> no someone !downed me earlier << Exactly why I did it
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: appreciate, some monkey had to write them packetz down
asciilifeform: with goose pen.
kakobrekla: id hope.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00071559 = 1.7174 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2126 @ 0.00071469 = 1.5194 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: >>> guess what, turns out one ~can~ still get these! even in usa! but not in the shop. look on www for 'MN1203' - which is apparently what they are called now.
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 21:16:31; mircea_popescu: tar was still used for insulation in 4.5V batteries when i was a kid. and the cells were paper wrapped.
asciilifeform: ruinously expensive.
asciilifeform: but can be had...
asciilifeform: also, apparently, called 3LR12.
asciilifeform: for american folks who've never seen one, it can be found on the far left-hand side of this photo:,5_D_C_AA_AAA_AAAA_A23_9V_CR2032_LR44_matchstick-1.jpeg
assbot: Lantern battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
mircea_popescu: didja manage yet moonpunter ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indeed they know how to be poor but happy. it works through being mentally retarded. they'd be equally happy if they were rich. they'd also be equally poor even if they were rich.
mircea_popescu: in fact they WERE once rich.
mircea_popescu: !up moonpunter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i tell you honestly, if i actually had to run a retarded linux thing for each of these i'd strongly consider just giving up.
ag3nt_zer0: << fair enough... though this reaction of mine is likely related to the fact that I was once fired from a school district while subbing because a student reported that I called her an "idiot" - wasn't true; I was speaking of the classroom behavior as a whole, but mattered not to the spineless principle nor to my "mentor" (I was sub for him) - this was with 10 days to
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2015 22:58:18; mircea_popescu: <ag3nt_zer0> i said "no i'm not" << the one remarkable quality of six year olds is how quickly they can transform adults, even if specially trained, into other six year olds :D
kakobrekla: that 4.5v - most often used in a handheld flash light here. some armies had those too afaik.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure i saw the thing attached to miner's helmet
kakobrekla had a few such lamps
kakobrekla: some predated me by many years.
mircea_popescu: aha. me 2.
mircea_popescu: btw, what time does sean connery show up at wimbledon ?
kakobrekla: now you get hand held led lamps with instruction sets. literally you can upload your own firmware on it.
mats: the ninjashogun ratings are hilarious
kakobrekla: fuckin hell.
mircea_popescu: << "the problem with your brother / is that he's always fucking your mother..."
assbot: Pulp Razzamatazz - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << natural things that just happen. naturally.
kakobrekla: quite possibly
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! somehow i thought half-arsed ddos was 'the new normal' over there
asciilifeform: and not just a sometimes-thursdays-thing
mircea_popescu: so it is. has been. but occasionally extra-lulzy.
asciilifeform: who knew k0smik rayz could http GET.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the notable thing about those 'flat batteries' (what we called'em) was not where they were used, but the kid-friendliness (in the old sense of educative danger, rather than 'safety') - you could wrap wires around the terminals directly, even short'em across various objects to learn what happens
mircea_popescu: or extract the manganese oxide
mircea_popescu: with a hammer.
asciilifeform: two or three of those, some wire, a glass of water, and you learn about gasses
asciilifeform: or hammer
asciilifeform: or, or, or.
mircea_popescu: (and we called them "baterii patrate" = square batteries)
mircea_popescu: and yes it was a major store of kid-value.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: плоская батарейка
asciilifeform: ('flat batt')
mircea_popescu: ploska ahahaha
assbot: Батарея 3R12 — Википедия ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ right out of my brain
mircea_popescu: word (in romanian) used to mean "drinking vessel carried on the person', in 1800.
mircea_popescu: then it moved to mean enema bag / pee implement under bed for sick people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd be a плошка
asciilifeform: (drinking vessel, that is)
kakobrekla: ploska, yeah here we say 'ploščata' even
mircea_popescu: certainly no sh in ro
asciilifeform: the battery was a thing in su since 1950s
asciilifeform: you could make a simple flashlight just from the battery, a lamp, and bit of electrician's tape.
asciilifeform: try that with 'round'.
asciilifeform: interestingly, in the '90s there was a shortage, and plastic pieces of shit where you could stuff 3 'aa'-style cells were sold. as substitute.
mircea_popescu had girl make herself shocking device out of mono copper cable, duct tape and a dozen 1.5 volters. FOR PUNISHMENT
williamdunne: For a good laugh, a socialist using words they don't understand. Particular lols around bogeymanning options contracts;
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! in vietnam, it is said, bamboo tube would be filled with 1.5v cells (often given up for dead by americans)
asciilifeform: and could run just about whatever (to a point. internal resistance of the cells eventually catches up with you)
mircea_popescu: could certainly run an electrically detonated detonator.
asciilifeform: absolutely.
asciilifeform: or radio set, even.
mircea_popescu: or interrogation kit.
mircea_popescu: (bamboo is evil as is. but with added weighht... gfl!)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interrogators were - and afaik still are - old field-telephones, hand-cranked
asciilifeform: and yes, can whack with the stick.
mircea_popescu: kinetic not electric rocess.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne i dun think the dailymotion demo is expected to comfortably arithmetic in head.
williamdunne: Its from a BBC show, even worse
kakobrekla: > but the kid-friendliness < shit, perhaps a mit student could actually successfully wire a lamp to it
asciilifeform: was gonna say.
asciilifeform: !s autosaurus
assbot: 3 results for 'autosaurus' :
mircea_popescu: i know its true because i readit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc this is still Official Truth in usgdom
asciilifeform: at least when i was a schoolboy it was.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it is, yeah.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if there's going to be a Fatman superhero before the fall.
asciilifeform: makes use of sumo ?
mircea_popescu: well those never made any sense.
mircea_popescu: hint : he's a tatar.
assbot: Junaid Hussain: British-born Isis hacker killed following US drone strike in Syria - Middle East - World - The Independent ... ( )
asciilifeform: mats: l0l re: the fella aiming with one eye
asciilifeform: who actually does this.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "currently compromise a bit more than 50%" << comprise ?
mircea_popescu: and ftr, the notion that pools "represent" hashrate is rank nonsense.
BingoBoingo: no, intended that way
mircea_popescu: both objectionswithdrawn in a major explosion of lols.
BingoBoingo: because does not represent hashrate, merely authors blocks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform EVERYONE.
mircea_popescu: i think it must have been in an old tv movie or something.
mircea_popescu: watch 'em.
asciilifeform: no shit, in movies yes
asciilifeform: but in life.
asciilifeform: where you actually have a rifle.
asciilifeform: the kind that shoots
mircea_popescu: the people in life are people from movies,
mircea_popescu: not people from life.
assbot: Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mats: asciilifeform: its not recommended, but you only rly need one eye to line up front and rear sightpost on target
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1442 @ 0.00071294 = 1.0281 BTC [-]
mats: some unlucky folks have a dominant eye different than the hand, which can make it difficult to aim
mircea_popescu: human visual depth perception is so fucking terrible, if you're going to fire cable guided missiles you're better off placing two teams a mile apart and having team A guide missiles fired from B and vice-versa
mircea_popescu: it then makes sense to close one eye on top of it.
mats: never experienced it, so cannot verify
asciilifeform: at dusk,
asciilifeform: 2 eyes, 2x the light
asciilifeform: (this is not subjectively obvious, on account of strange quirks of wetware)
BingoBoingo: <mats> some unlucky folks have a dominant eye different than the hand, which can make it difficult to aim << solution is hand yeilds to eye dominance. If left eye dominant shoot left handed.
mircea_popescu: there are known and amply documented cases of mechanical sight misalignment that can't be detected with one eye
asciilifeform: ^ and this
asciilifeform: plus there are other things for which one might like a second eye
asciilifeform: e.g., enemy in corner of field of vision
mats: BingoBoingo: yeah. but then you run into instances where your weapon is designed to eject shells as though operator is right-handed, and then you catch third degree burns
mircea_popescu: what sort of fucking gun is not adjustable by now
BingoBoingo: mats: Then you either make sure the rifle was sane ahead of time or fuck the rifle
mircea_popescu: srsly firing nagants ?
mats: m4 series
asciilifeform: i don't know of any modern rifle which has 2 ejector holes
mats: how luxurious
BingoBoingo: Or at least different plates available
asciilifeform: for folks with some money, there are craftsmen who will make oddities like this
BingoBoingo: Or if rifle is popular should be off the shelf commercial parts
mircea_popescu: mats you sure about that ?!
mircea_popescu: seems mindboggling to me.
mircea_popescu: at least a deflector, something.
asciilifeform whenever thinking of left-handers-in-the-army, always recalls the medieval spiral staircases which assumed that nobody with a sword will ever be left-handed
mats: deflectors are a thing, but i've never seen a joe carry one for his personal weapon
mats: commonly issued for crew-served and squad assault weapons
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00071294 = 2.0675 BTC [-]
mats: i vaguely remember reading a field manual (M2?) where it is possible to adjust which side spits out the rounds but don't recall details, if moonpunter figures out gpg maybe he can tell me
BingoBoingo: !up moonpunter
BingoBoingo: moonpunter which part of the process is giving you issues?
moonpunter: after i tell assbot to !up me i get a file to decrypt
moonpunter: dunno what to do with the output i guess
BingoBoingo: And you decrypt the file then tell assbot !v yourstringhere
moonpunter: the whole string
BingoBoingo: !down moonpunter
moonpunter: vroom vroom
moonpunter: M2 tank?
mats: ma deuce
moonpunter: i trained on us weapons and when i got to the real army i was attached to a mortar platoon, but i only ever dropped one mortar myself, which was pretty awesome
moonpunter: we had humvees and mraps, cavalry is pretty lazy shit comparitvely
moonpunter: i don't know about any artillery or most of the vehicles; i did maintain my humvee and i was the only truck in the platoon to never break down b/c i didn't mind annoying the mechanics
mats: mos?
moonpunter: 11b, infantry
moonpunter: re-enlisted to go 25d but got a medical discharge before i ever went to school. they let me keep the bonus anyway.
moonpunter: 25c or d, don't remember. radios. you'll never convince me to wrok in a military IT department.
moonpunter: (25b)
mats: what broke
mats: knees?
moonpunter: lower back and brain i guess
moonpunter: wasn't my call.
moonpunter: in fact on tuesday i had my final interview with the TDRL, they're moving me to permanent. oh well.
moonpunter: "have you been arrested more than 5 times since discharge" etc
kakobrekla: 5 times ??
moonpunter: i've been arrested more than 10 times since discharge
moonpunter: i actually have lost count, but three times last year by the same local dick.
kakobrekla: perhaps arrested means something else that i think it means.
moonpunter: it means going in the back of a car to jail
moonpunter: usually it means paying some money to get out
kakobrekla: oh, i was right then.
moonpunter: sometimes they let you out on your own recognition that you are a drunk asshole
kakobrekla: what the fuck are you doing ?
moonpunter: the first time i pissed that cop off i was just telling off this lady that was rude to my wife. i live in a tourist town and we were downtown.
trinque: what part of the country, if I may ask?
kakobrekla: and you was arrested for that wtf
kakobrekla: did you tell her with a gun or something?
moonpunter: that's what i don't get
moonpunter: my only felony was for telling someone to get off my driveway
moonpunter: basically
moonpunter: if you're drunk you're wrong. that's why i've all but quit drinking for the most part.
kakobrekla: some crazy stuff
moonpunter: i dunno. i've been a good boy since last year. got too many reasons now. new baby tomorrow morning. 8am delivery.
BingoBoingo: moonpunter: You see my alleged misdemeanor case is being strung out for years because drunk is not wrong. Also prosecutor and police suck at this whole trying misdemeanor cases business.
moonpunter: the justice system is retarded in general.
BingoBoingo: Most things are retarded
moonpunter: cops don't even know what laws they're enforcing, most of them act on emotion, professionalism lacking, institutional racism, extortionist tactics at the jail - $3.00 per minute for a phone call in 2014
trinque: I know in certain places in Texas it's rather easy to get arrested for looking the wrong way, or being drunk in the wrong place.
trinque: and admittedly as a white male, it doesn't apply to me much there.
trinque: dallas in particular is rough.
moonpunter: i've been through there dozens of times, right, on greyhound several, and everytime i've been to that greyhound station there's been an ambulance and a herd of cops. every time.
moonpunter: mostly i just stay home nowadays. graced with virtual office type work. now and then i think about getting one of these cheap office spaces in town, but i'm fine living in my slippers and gym shorts.
BingoBoingo: My personal standard for whether something should be a crime or not is Missouri's statewide ban on prosecution for merely being drunk in public. Missouri is more Texas than Texas in this regard.
moonpunter: here in Arkansas if you have money you're basically a protected class. my previous landlord is getting away with theft and extortion on a weekly basis. he fucked up when he harassed my wife via text, she's going to sue, the cops said that would be the best way to deal with it.
moonpunter: i mean we're not broke
moonpunter: but we don't own a bunch of property
BingoBoingo: Well, in most rural places it isn't just the money. It's whether you're the sort who should have money or not.
moonpunter: i think the law should be blind to all existential things and apply to human action. if you harm another person in someway, violate their inalienable rights, that should be criminal, no matter who you are.
moonpunter: good point, that
moonpunter: "can i see some ID"
trinque: can't really talk in terms of rights without some theory on how they'd be enforced
trinque: I'm skeptical
trinque: I certainly *personally* agree that there are frivolous reasons to judge a person.
trinque: now, try enforcing that generally
trinque: looks a lot like this glorious land of freedom we've got
trinque: only recourse you have is to associate with sane individuals.
moonpunter: well this thing that just happened in ferguson, where the cops showed up with overwhelming force and the kid decided to shoot at them before he died. it's like at what point are you allowed to defend yourself if you are reasonably certain you're going to die.
moonpunter: trinque: agreed
trinque: again, you're allowed what circumstances permit, and nothing more
mircea_popescu: more like "you're allowed to defend yourself on your own property and that's it".
kakobrekla: here not even that.
mircea_popescu: simple enough to enforce. was the victim on the shooter's property ? fuck the victim, should buy more property next time.
trinque: indeed
kakobrekla: here i can not touch a burglar.
mircea_popescu: i thought beating up burglar is traditional there too ?
moonpunter: thoreau wrote in depth about the value of the commons. i tend to defer to him. in mass. they say you have to call the cops before you can even think about defending yourself, even if the person is in your home.
mircea_popescu does not live in mass.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1836 @ 0.00071317 = 1.3094 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: nope and its a real pain. i know of a (a bit special) case where landlord can not get the lodger out. not legally. even if he doesnt pay.
kakobrekla: can not turn off elect or water, not legal.
mircea_popescu: nice socialist paradise you goit going somehow ?
trinque: "renter's rights"
asciilifeform: meanwhile, at the l0lphactory,
trinque: they've got all kinds of that here
assbot: Advice to a young social scientist | Locklin on science ... ( )
kakobrekla: can give more details later, off for now.
kakobrekla: trinque not renter per se but 'human'
mircea_popescu: anyway, the notion that the eu is any better than the us is lulzy.
trinque: yeah, I've heard of the squatting thing too
mircea_popescu: pretty much the same shithole.
trinque: here
mircea_popescu: except one's with languages.
trinque: and um, nordic, something. I hear it's good.
mircea_popescu: yeah, it's great.
moonpunter: i signed a contract with the landlord, he violated it in several ways and attempted to violate it in more. he was disappointed when he figured out i didn't need his apartment, and most definitely stole some of my property left there before the move-out date, then lied to police about it. we don't need anymore laws protecting landlords where i live.
mircea_popescu: and btw, the us gdp went up to 3 something while we were talking.
asciilifeform: great 'while supplies last' (tm)
mircea_popescu: was 2 something.
mircea_popescu: how exactly they figure this washes is anyone's guess by this point. what growth ? the us has been contracting since 1995
kakobrekla: in theory here you can go to a supermarket or a hotel or whatever, sit down in the middle and 'claim your space'.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> was 2 something <<< the unit being barrels of dried tobacco, or what
asciilifeform: 'hog's head'
kakobrekla: it will take a bunch of time and layerpower to get out out.
trinque: the financial "news" lately has been chock-full of lol
kakobrekla: you out*
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sounds like slovenia would do a lot better with more beatings.
trinque: and it's telling how on-message the various supposedly distinct news outlets are
mircea_popescu would fucking love to see this.
kakobrekla: this is not limited to slovenia as far as i know.
trinque: dow starts to plummet, suddenly oh, gdp's not so bad
trinque: we forgot to carry the 1!
mircea_popescu: romanian tradition of beating the shit of the burglar before calling police was still strong last i saw.
mircea_popescu: historically, if you're too lousy to do it yourself the police hold him down and then check if you want to prosecute.
trinque: some states here have a requirement that you attempt retreat first
mircea_popescu: pretty sure serbia/ukraina are the same way
trinque: so you can get shot in the back
mircea_popescu: trinque the notion of not shooting an armed person is still very foreign to me. if you got a gun and i got a gun i AM killing you and then we can figure it out.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, as i went to texas, they were just having a celebration in the little town, mayor was giving an old woman some award
trinque: right, once weapons are involved, wtf are you supposed to do?
trinque: or hell, just because the person entered the house. that's a threat.
mircea_popescu: for she was in a diner and a guy tried to rob it, so the old woman got out a colt and blew the would-be robber's brain all over the wall
trinque: good on her
mircea_popescu: trinque i dun think i'd shoot random derp walking in.
trinque: sure, I've been in the position of having my doors checked, and I waited it out
trinque: but.. with 9mm in hand
trinque: could be whoever
mircea_popescu agrees with idea asciilifeform's linked article, still thinks very little of scott locklin.
asciilifeform: didn't scott piss in mircea_popescu's tea once, or what was it.
asciilifeform: gotta be a reason.
mircea_popescu: i don't remember what exact "bitcoin jesus" nonsense he had in his schedule, but i do recall i made the judgement the person can not possibly be intellectually respectable.
asciilifeform: aha i recall. somebody ( mircea_popescu ? ) wrote to him re: bitcoin, and he answered 'fuck off, bitcoin's a pyramid' or something to that effect
mircea_popescu: actually iirc HE wrote to me, and i told him to get fucked.
mircea_popescu: !up roasbeef
mircea_popescu: i guess this is to be dug up now.
asciilifeform digs ancient nodes
asciilifeform: i read scott's stuff for some years, back when he wrote under pseudonym
mircea_popescu: "This is much too far from an apology for your previous episode to count. Try again."
assbot: How to fail - the Scott Locklin method. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: had some nifty stuff, mainly re: technological decline
asciilifeform: and the demise of physics as an organized discipline
mircea_popescu: guy failed to respond to challenge, got shitlisted.
mircea_popescu: obviously.
asciilifeform: (locklin was a disgruntled physics student)
mircea_popescu: you'd think this sort of thing would be obvious to adult males.
mircea_popescu: somehow, in anglo culture, it is not.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi.
asciilifeform: some folks just go away
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: into the pot they go away.
mircea_popescu: or what, you meant "they go away into a merry-merrry land where they lhea" ?
asciilifeform: into somewhere, by definition unknown
asciilifeform: could be - the pot
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: as far as i'm concerned...
mircea_popescu: but, that aside. the logical next step, after learning arithmetics, from a "i'd rather not be robbed blind by everyone i meet" is learning statistics.
asciilifeform: trinque: ... been in the position of having my doors checked, and I waited it out << i've lived in a 'burglary' street since last may - good share of the houses featured in city hall's 'crime map.' but for some reason nobody ever 'checked' my door
mircea_popescu: and this very specifically means learning to avoid the numerous "learn statistics nao!" scamtraps, from bayesian bullshit to what have you.
trinque: I have bums on the porch here all the goddamn time
trinque: got a bike stolen a while back
mircea_popescu: how to annoy large dogs : while dog is in front and you're sitting in back seat, wait for it to stick its muzzle through the headrest, at which point put a strip of bacon flush on it. hide it once he withdraws. repeat.
trinque: heh
mircea_popescu: this psa brought to you by the pussycat association of cattycorner, wiltshire.
phf: ;;later tell pete_dushenski congratulations!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz,
asciilifeform: 'v' now checks sigs correctly...
asciilifeform: 'I have often heard learned psychology department dunderheads stating what the result of their paper will be, and instructing their underlings to mine the data for p-values. I suppose they may have thought themselves speaking over the heads of the rabble, since nobody else from their department was visible. Mind you, they did this in a public place, in a town which is filled to the nostrils with people with training in rigorou
asciilifeform: s subjects, like, you know, me, the buxom Russian girl reading Dirac in the corner, the options trader eating a sandwich, and the girl pouring the coffee, who is studying mathematics. This indicates to me that such people are so abysmally stupid and unaware of their own deficiencies, they couldn’t achieve a scientific result if they actually tried to do so. Have a click on this link for the UCB psychology department: at lea
asciilifeform: st two people on this list are complete scientific frauds. Probably, most of them are.'
asciilifeform: (locklin)
asciilifeform: 'Should I ever strike it rich enough to endow a foundation, I would pay legions of trained statisticians to go through the literature and eviscerate the mountains of bad “research” and arrive at the truth. If Universities were interested in advancing human knowledge, rather than circle jerks with a football team, they’d fund entire departments of people who do nothing but this.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00071299 = 2.852 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ftr, actual psychology also happens.
mircea_popescu: much like actual programming except moreso.
mircea_popescu: and this reads lots like "if i had money and brains i'd try to be alf and fix computing"
asciilifeform: computing's easier
deedbot-: [Qntra] Surviving a Transaction Flood -
mircea_popescu: notrly. computing actually has to do something.
mircea_popescu: a perfectly acceptable result of psychology, like of all scholarship, is "i have nfi"
asciilifeform: i meant, easier in terms of resource.
asciilifeform: i don't need a legion of anybody.
asciilifeform: just food, roof, a bit of mains current.
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: but you do. of legionaries. to impale the pseudoscientists.
asciilifeform: (they don't, typically, have the decency to impale themselves)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nice.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thank you, also cpp is blockquoted
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform should i also impale the ugly/stupid women ? on my own dime ? what else ?
asciilifeform: i mean, in the hypothetical scenario of 'cleaning the discipline'
mircea_popescu: so in this perspective chemistry is only clean of alchemists because time offed them ?
mircea_popescu: not because they're simply ignored ?
asciilifeform: the phase transition is interesting in that there is a great interval where chemists, alchemists - coexist
asciilifeform: (best defined as states of mind rather than the particulars of physical manipulations, which tend to be superficially very similar - and often enough, exactly identical)
mircea_popescu: but this "coexistence" is a purely anthropological consideration.
asciilifeform: naturally
mircea_popescu: as far as i'm concerned, as the MD i'm not actually, the bizarro notions re "add" and whatnot inthe dsm make exactly 0 difference.
asciilifeform: good example of discipline where 'alchemy' predominates
mircea_popescu: yes, they matter for the bureaucrats who'd like to pass for mds, and which are presented as such by the state much like the guy in a white coat is presented as "a scientist" by advertising execs
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'girding you node infrastructure' -> 'girding your node infrastructure' ?
mircea_popescu: !up eric
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty fixed
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, Π(∀n) broke past 1GB
asciilifeform: (an event of no practical consequence whatsoever)
mircea_popescu suspects that we're actually the only ones to have the P
mircea_popescu: but hey, we're also the only ones to want to have the P, because everyone else just needs summaries and narratives.
asciilifeform zcat /var/log/........../access* | grep "prod.txt"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you believe.
asciilifeform: buncha folks!
asciilifeform: who they are - i've no idea.
asciilifeform: half a dozen or so complete fetches.
mircea_popescu: o hey, not bad.
mircea_popescu: sometimes /me is happy to be contradicted by events
BingoBoingo swears will eventually start publishing bitcoind patches to mailing list and not qntra, but still has to figure out diff, and nao v
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: good news, you don't yet have to figure out 'v'
asciilifeform: (i have not yet released it)
BingoBoingo: Ah, that is good news.
asciilifeform: gotta make damn sure that it behaves.
asciilifeform: incidentally, notion of wot in 'v' is a dir full of pubkeys
asciilifeform: none of that 'import' and 'retrieve' idiocy
asciilifeform: get the files. place in dir.
mircea_popescu: very much exactly this. there's a line from me somewhere in log going "all i want to figure out is what keys"
asciilifeform: patches live in another dir.
asciilifeform: sigs - another.
asciilifeform: this forms a 'v' workingset.
asciilifeform: i am saying these things with the secret hope of weaseling out of writing a manual later.
assbot: Many Pools Rejecting XT in Favor of Other Undefined Fork | Qntra ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think so fart you just might.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i am saying these things with the secret hope of weaseling out of writing a manual later. << I though this is what danielpbarron does
asciilifeform: thing does exactly three basic kinds of thing - verifies sigs; determines what subcoagulations of spittle in the spittoon are in fact in single strands; and permits operator to select individual strands, and cut'em (by whatever criteria, including signatories or combinations thereof)
asciilifeform: selections produce a buildable tree.
asciilifeform: which corresponds to a particular set of leaf nodes in the dependencyflowgraph.
asciilifeform: a 'release' is merely a particular kind of vpatch which deliberately touches a desired set of leaves, and turns into a leaf set which, when selected, produces the sought after tree.
asciilifeform: at any rate, it'll be a handy thing for folks such as hanbot.
asciilifeform: (in the sense of, people who are not writing these, but desire to make some sense of what has been written.)
asciilifeform: i have already written the 'mathematical' portion. which actually snarfs up and computers the graph flows, and checks sigs
asciilifeform: but it still remains to me, to put human knobs on it.
asciilifeform: so far it is ~one page, of 'python' prog. lang., if anyone has something else they would like to see it in, write to me
trinque: really illustrates your "fits in head"
phf: mats: dos dev is sop multimachine. if you read early gamedev reminiscence professional setup almost always involved two machines, the dev environment and the game testing machine, with some rapid way to synchronize the two. not that are you necessarily limited to a single task at a time, you can load a tsr to perform a handful of auxiliary task, like notes or calculator or whatever. i think that's how "widgets" were implemented in apple's system
phf: 1 through 4
asciilifeform: trinque: this is not accidental.
trinque: certainly not!
trinque: I am merely observing it.
asciilifeform: phf: hp200lx dos machine does astonishing things with tsr
trinque: git for example, sure, has a tree in it, which is to say the monstrously large pile of git concepts has a sort of tree-like structure in it, among myriad other things
asciilifeform did not feel like 'truly knows how to program pc' until he wrote first tsr, as a boy
asciilifeform: it did nothing of great enduring value
phf: tsr is right of passage :)
asciilifeform: trinque: importantly, 'v' is stateless other than the three directories spoken of earlier.
asciilifeform: and, notably, never alters them
asciilifeform: it can produce output, which one might at some point sign and place in 'patches' and 'sigs' respectively.
asciilifeform: or, in the case of flow graph, examine visually.
asciilifeform: or, when producing a buildable tree - build.
asciilifeform: but never affects own inputs directly.
trinque: mhm, functional
trinque: it's quite a thing; I've worked under guys that demanded minimalism and it didn't hold a candle to this.
trinque: shows it's not just minimalism that's to be sought, but precisely the right fit of concepts.
asciilifeform: <phf> mats: dos dev is sop multimachine. if you read early gamedev reminiscence professional setup almost always involved two machines, the dev environment and the game testing machine, with some rapid way to synchronize the two... <<< this is how 'embedded' work is still done, and imho it is the correct way to program
asciilifeform: trinque: ... the right fit of concepts << sometimes called 'orthogonality'
phf: same for console development
asciilifeform: in general, whenever one is programming for ~a whole machine~
asciilifeform: phf: a number of folks here were introduced to the concept for the first time when they met with 'pogo'
asciilifeform: (a small computer which is not ~quite~ large enough to comfortably run gcc on)
phf: i think the idea makes sense for development in general, i mean "full stack" crowd approximates it by running a vm with the stack
asciilifeform: this, as i understand, is done largely out of desperation
asciilifeform: (in the logs one can learn that i suggested it to therealbitcoin folks)
phf: keep shit in dedicated buckets, poor it from one into another
trinque: ahemahemdocker
trinque: latest incarnation of this
trinque: you've got a giant wad of incomprehensible shit, so at least if you snapshot the turd at various life-stages you can return to one when you've screwed up everything
trinque: that said I did target qemu for my gentoo builder, just to have a defined target at all
mircea_popescu: <trinque> really illustrates your "fits in head" << i've seen his codework before and was very pleasantly impressed.
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