asciilifeformagriculturalsupremacyspykedtrilemaalethepedia
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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


BingoBoingo: True shame Hastings didn't live long enough to make the target on his back more vivid by flirting with #b-a
BingoBoingo: "The project began after Don Bolles, a reporter for The Arizona Republic who had been investigating ties between organized crime and politicians, was killed by a car bomb on June 13, 1976. Mr. Bolles had been a founding member of Investigative Reporters and Editors, a national organization that Mr. Greene had helped start."
BingoBoingo: "Motorcycle Gangs" is USG code for blessed sons of the DEA. Nearly all their contemporary membership is eather hobbyist medical pros or former Law enforcement
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25113 @ 0.00059337 = 14.9013 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: The law enforcement - Biker gang connection even leaks into USG blessed pop culture from time to time.
BingoBoingo: "If the subject's personal habits make it feasible, alcohol may be used [very successfully] to prepare him for a contrived accident of any kind." << FU Hoover
BingoBoingo: Hastings may very well have simply pushed his luck one too many times with reckless behavior. In true Hunter S. Thompson fashion. Even then it would still be interesting to know what he was working on. A lesson for acoyltes of the press? << Thompson preserved his live by straddling the edge of credibility. "To weird to die" was likely both his motto and official USG policy.
BingoBoingo: "The project began after Don Bolles, a reporter for The Arizona Republic who had been investigating ties between organized crime and politicians, was killed by a car bomb on June 13, 1976. Mr. Bolles had been a founding member of Investigative Reporters and Editors, a national organization that Mr. Greene had helped start." << If Mr. Bolles has a known propensity for peyote and cocaine he likely could have avoided this fate whil
BingoBoingo: e still reporting the same things.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10758 @ 0.00059222 = 6.3711 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: USG though always operates under the assumption Nixon era "Drugs once damaged forever" cridibility doctrine holds
BingoBoingo: By this form a tab of LSD to asciilifeform may extend his life a decade, or USG whims could change
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 265.24, vol: 10337.49740711 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 260.0, vol: 5300.23822 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 265.46, vol: 15668.6887239 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 264.01, vol: 0.16 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 259.904939, vol: 17254.58870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 265.19423, vol: 80.9109058 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 271.380062055, vol: 60.95966155 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 262.858012852
phf: i thought Thompson was mostly a polemicist, are there any articles of his where he successfully "blows a lid" off something?
BingoBoingo: phf: Plenty in his sports writing.
BingoBoingo: But, that could also be sports writing.
BingoBoingo: He published in book form a bunch of shit he got being one of the few people Nixon could talk Football with
BingoBoingo: USG, I will send you to Kismet and I will eat your soul
phf: is that the Campaign Trail '72 one?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.00059204 = 29.1876 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: phf: Yeah
BingoBoingo: Great read
BingoBoingo: I gave my copy to some girl I fancied at the time which was not the girl I fancied at the time who would have appreciated it.
phf: i've lost a lot of good books that way
BingoBoingo is nothing if not arbitrary in lightening his shelves
phf: it's not like you end up giving out trash, i lose books that i then have to buy again
BingoBoingo: I am actually not sure to this day if that girl is literate herself.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00058794 = 25.4578 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40480 @ 0.00061176 = 24.764 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: <mats> i chatted up a cutie at the farmers market today << win.
BingoBoingo: Tonight's film Cinderella Man
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79000 @ 0.00061625 = 48.6838 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Great USG poverty flick so far
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> 'they' are the single, solitary source of all things even vaguely resembling that which they claim to defend against. << who, the soviets ?
BingoBoingo: WWIII was a necessary involvement for the Yankees. One that strengthened the South immeasurably.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform linked cryptome article badly stitched together effort of random derp to get his name out there ?
mircea_popescu: <phf> i thought Thompson was mostly a polemicist, are there any articles of his where he successfully "blows a lid" off something? << no.
mircea_popescu: and similarly moore's mostly an opportunist. nevertheless, they represent the neverending hope of the countless christine wiigs out there, between fargo and paris (wi) that they to one day could be famous!
pete_dushenski: goddam wiig even wants to shit on ghostbusters now
pete_dushenski: along with hamplanet mccarthy, naturally
mircea_popescu: <phf> it's not like you end up giving out trash, i lose books that i then have to buy again << seriously, giving women books is fucktarded. either order her to buy and read it, or forget it.
pete_dushenski: not that i have any real love lost for ghostbusters movies, but the cartoons...
mircea_popescu: this "giving" bs is like lifting kids up to the basketball hoop. pointless and boring.
pete_dushenski: lol @ vex
mircea_popescu never followed either
mircea_popescu: was this HB ?
pete_dushenski: myea, twas a generational thing
pete_dushenski: sorry, hb ?
mircea_popescu: hanna-barbera
pete_dushenski: aha, like flinstones and jetsons
mircea_popescu loved both cow&chicken and animaniacs. not THAT generational.
pete_dushenski: i definitely enjoyed animaniacs and pinky and the brain, never watched much cow&chick
wilbns: ducktales, gummy bears and talespin over here.
mircea_popescu: if you ever want to introduce a kid to surrealism, c&c is the way to go.
mircea_popescu: plus exactly the right brand of anarchic anti-authoritarian, sexually innuendo-ian and so forth
trinque: I still re-watch ren & stimpy time to time
pete_dushenski: 'the real ghostbusters' (cartoon) was developed by columbia pictures and 'dic entertainment'. i'm not sure that it was any good, more that the siren sound of the car as played in the theme song was really rather memorable
pete_dushenski: wilbns: which one was gummy bears again ?
mircea_popescu: it's a pity they took southpark the route of this hot topic "let's stand in front random news event of the week"
mircea_popescu: show used to be a lot better a decade ago
wilbns: pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4aJz2E5LQI:
assbot: Gummi Bears 0401 Gummi´s At Sea (Full Episode) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1TvUo9K )
trinque: indeed. clearly wanted to cash in and go do broadway
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: i'm taking notes here on cartoonz for kidz, so keep 'em comin.
trinque: r&s is imo an excellent satire of various common american mental illnesses
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski it's a great show, starting maybe about 5-6-7 or so but be prepared to support the kid by not being a hypocrite cop-out sorta parent. which always sounds a lot easier than it turns out to be
mircea_popescu: wilbns dude i think i ate some of those
mircea_popescu: i had no idea they were a cartoon
wilbns: mircea_popescu: haha, yes, exactly, that was my favorite candy as a kid which is why i liked the cartoon
pete_dushenski: they're no sour patch kids
pete_dushenski: the show looks like a stoner's brainchild
trinque now has the duck tales theme stuck in head
trinque: ah oooooh ooh
wilbns: trinque: me too
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> <phf> it's not like you end up giving out trash, i lose books that i then have to buy again << seriously, giving women books is fucktarded. either order her to buy and read it, or forget it. << Been a decade and months since my mistake. Recognized when I wanted to see them again.
wilbns: after hanna barbera stuff and disney cartoons, will never forget the first time i accidentally stumbled upon aeon flux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVZXElRgYwk
assbot: (MTV) Aeon Flux Series - Season 1 (1991) - Pilot N/A - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Je565e )
mircea_popescu: saw the film of that thing, because hot chick. was thoroughly disappointed.
wilbns: didn't see the movie, but there was all kinds of wacked out stuff happening in the cartoon. that was the first time i think i saw two animated characters getting it on w/ each other
trinque: http://images.alphacoders.com/480/480232.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Je5kJB )
trinque: didn't see the film, but now I can see wanting to
pete_dushenski: mercy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5350 @ 0.0006315 = 3.3785 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Oh, liberast twist in "Cinderella Man" is wife doesn't want him to risk it for the children
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34082 @ 0.00058388 = 19.8998 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42800 @ 0.00063612 = 27.2259 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-08-2015#1233728 << if it still works i'll buy it from you
assbot: Logged on 10-08-2015 22:33:31; *: shinohai has a startac in the closet somewhere ....
wilbns: ah, what a phone
wilbns: fell off a roof onto my hip which had that phone clipped to it, no problem. accidentally put in a cup of whisky and coke, no problem.
mircea_popescu: The music-and if possible it should be the same music for everybody-is the most important ingredient. Its function is to prevent thought and conversation, and to shut out any natural sound, such as the song of birds or the whistling of the wind, that might otherwise intrude. The radio is already consciously used for this purpose by innumerable people. In very many English homes the radio is literally never turned off,
mircea_popescu: though it is manipulated from time to time so as to make sure that only light music will come out of it. I know people who will keep the radio playing all through a meal and at the same time continue talking just loudly enough for the voices and the music to cancel out. This is done with a definite purpose. The music prevents the conversation from becoming serious or even coherent, while the chatter of voices stops one
mircea_popescu: from listening attentively to the music and thus prevents the onset of that dreaded thing, thought. For:
mircea_popescu: The lights must never go out.
mircea_popescu: The music must always play,
mircea_popescu: Lest we should see where we are;
mircea_popescu: Lost in a haunted wood,
mircea_popescu: Children afraid of the dark
mircea_popescu: Who have never been happy or good.
mircea_popescu: what did jobs "invent" again ?
mircea_popescu: a whole fucking century with this.
ben_vulpes: (coracle at 281753)
BingoBoingo: How did "Million Dollar Baby" get acclaim and "Cincerella Man" didn't
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: did you have any 'absolute path' issues when setting up coracle ? i still haven't overcome this issue with my rotor attempts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00058388 = 18.6258 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Ho Bitch wife #CinderellaMan
BingoBoingo: Gaddammit Bitch wife
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65471 @ 0.00058361 = 38.2095 BTC [-] {4}
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> what did jobs "invent" again ? << elective lobotomies with moar rounded corners
mircea_popescu: not sure any cutting was required.
mircea_popescu: some brains are born circumcised.
BingoBoingo: And Bitc wife comes to when she realizes only one outcome lets her live
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19794 @ 0.00062001 = 12.2725 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18011 @ 0.00064331 = 11.5867 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/3VCV3R8.txt << where my 'rotor' efforts for debian 7 currently rest.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NbXEr6 )
pete_dushenski: ^mod6 asciilifeform ben_vulpes etc.
fluffypony: lolwut
fluffypony: I just got a pm from WoodCollector
fluffypony: As the new owner of this account I have removed any feedback left by the previous owner as a courtesy before I sell the account.
fluffypony: PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE YOUR FEEDBACK AS IT IS HISTORICAL AND A REMINDER TO ALL TO BE CAREFUL.
fluffypony: This account is being sold soon, so please do not trust anyone on this account who says they are the original woodcollector.
pete_dushenski: best price.
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: is the new owner advising people against trusting the new owner ?
mircea_popescu: apparently obamacare doesn't make the lithium strong enough anymore.
pete_dushenski: "Vox Media, a publishing house for the digital age, has landed a $200 million strategic investment from the entertainment group NBCUniversal"
mircea_popescu: see, now that investment makes sense
pete_dushenski: values vox at $1 bn
mircea_popescu: nothing nbc bought in the past 2-12-20 billion has turned out worth anything
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: what else has nbc bought in the last 5 years ?
BingoBoingo contemplates selling BTCTalk account and entering a deed of sold in the bot, but...
BingoBoingo: NBC bought Trump
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
BingoBoingo likes the hollywood dichotomy of break your neck on a stool vs. buy a house in Jersey
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski they buy 5-20 shows a yerar.
mircea_popescu: none of which you've heard of.
mircea_popescu: none of which cost less than 10mn or so
pete_dushenski: aha. shows.
mircea_popescu: for 20 years now, they've not caught a break.
pete_dushenski: 30 rock was theirs.
mircea_popescu: since seinfeld practically.
mircea_popescu: heh yeah, what's "30 rock" gross ?
Vexual: tina fey won't say
pete_dushenski: 30 rock might actually be the last tv show i watched that had me in stitches
fluffypony: http://imgur.com/gallery/tuG5A
assbot: Economies and corporations explained using cows - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nc0fRJ )
mircea_popescu: sadly stitches are not a unit of account, pete_dushenski
Vexual: seinfeld got more
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: it probably grosses a couple million a year ? leaving a net of a few hundred k, i'd wager
Vexual: add a few zeros
mircea_popescu: ...
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: btw, what's the going rate for online ads these days ? sounds like cpm is dead, but do you know 'average' cpc off-hand ?
pete_dushenski: i'm trolling a local newsrag and need to know how far to take my schtick :)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> sadly stitches are not a unit of account, pete_dushenski << Seriosly NBC is too poor to film police dramas in NYC. Hence "Chicago PD"
mircea_popescu: it's about the same as buying "seer advice". you can pay as much as you want to, but you should buy the cheapest.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> heh yeah, what's "30 rock" gross ? << SNL, but "retired"
mircea_popescu: (usually cheapest here means - just get someone to edit your apache server logs)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00064483 = 12.7032 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: they can always film in chicago and call it nyc, throw in some pixels so no one notices
BingoBoingo: The same way ESPN is mostly "athletes" but "retired"
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Not really. Middle America will know
pete_dushenski: you'd know better than i
mircea_popescu: skyline!
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: If any part of the "Chicago River" is in a frame most of use can smell it.
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: But take comfort. The "Chicago River" is a 21st century open sewer
BingoBoingo: So post modern
BingoBoingo: Not long ago they pointed it away from Lake Michigan
BingoBoingo: How long ago is up to debate. Good metrics suggest most of it still goes to Lake Michigan.
mircea_popescu: "a chity so chic its name even starts with chicloaca maxima!"
BingoBoingo: In the native language of the displaced folk, apparently Chicago meant "place that reeks of onion"
BingoBoingo: Because it was the wrong kind of bog.
BingoBoingo: Instead of bury your cheese to keep it safe Chicago was more... Like a FUPA
BingoBoingo: No way to avoid the mold
BingoBoingo: I have a fat acquaintence who moved to Shitcago. His fellow probationers are a harder and less human sort than he did rehab with here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36338 @ 0.00064076 = 23.2839 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Dude has a future though, he made himself some Jew Lawyer's pet.
Vexual: doesnt need to buy a coat
Vexual: coz hes fat
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: http://getoffmyinternets.net/token-fat-girl-blogger-dies-suddenly-at-age-30/
assbot: ‘Token Fat Girl’ Blogger Dies Suddenly At Age 30 | GOMI ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nc319K )
BingoBoingo: http://blog.genesisfellowship.com/2013/03/15/pray-for-the-spurlock-family.aspx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18190 @ 0.00062777 = 11.4191 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: The lawyer who has taken custody of my planetary acquainance is a good person though. I trust she will keep him safe. Her political opinions are close to Pete's except for the Bitcoin is going to burn the world part.
BingoBoingo looks at the varied IRL contacts Bingo has been polite enough to introduce to BTC and wonder whether too soon or wrong target leaning towards the latter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00060901 = 10.14 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00060901 = 9.3788 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22110 @ 0.00060901 = 13.4652 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00062391 = 13.0085 BTC [+]
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235775 <<< tbh, it was a sly attemptin asking you to speculate for what purpose that lab might've been used for, google didn't turn up anything
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2015 13:15:19; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2015#1235694 << if i had to move to another usg fiefdom, why not, e.g., midwest usa instead? same as australia, but easier resupply and fewer natural hazards
punkman: http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/12/ohm-is-a-smarter-lighter-car-battery-that-works-with-your-existing-car/
assbot: Ohm Is A Smarter, Lighter Car Battery That Works With Your Existing Car | TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1IJjMG9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00063884 = 18.5902 BTC [+] {4}
cazalla: http://www.techworm.net/2015/08/lenovo-pcs-and-laptops-seem-to-have-a-bios-level-backdoor.html
assbot: Lenovo PCs and Laptops seem to have a BIOS level backdoor ... ( http://bit.ly/1TtYpAT )
cazalla: still catching up on logs so sorry if repost
cazalla: ah shit, not more than 10 lines later and i see shinohai beat me to it
shinohai: nw, it's kinda old news on my part realy that Lenovo has been exploiting UEFI
punkman: is ubuntu compatible yet?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00063397 = 15.0251 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00062934 = 11.0764 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.00062934 = 15.702 BTC [-]
shinohai: !up GNULinuxGuy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25500 @ 0.00062507 = 15.9393 BTC [-] {6}
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236757 <<< can vouch for this.. the 80 year old guy over the fence is always inviting me over to just stroll into his backyard and take what i want.. tools, veggies, whatever, help yourself he says but he is also a little senile so i've not taken up the offer lest he call the police because some intruder is in the backyard
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 02:44:41; BingoBoingo: And if you really need access to dirt to garden make friends with old people.
cazalla: guy's a barber too but just like his offer to take what i want from his backyard, i turn down offers for haircut and straight razor shave
shinohai: I am almost ashamed to addmit I will converse with this old Mexican lady for up to an hour just because I love her damned pepper garden.
cazalla: what sort of peppers?
shinohai: Jalepenos Habaneros
shinohai: I usually leave with a bundle of cilantro and onions too
shinohai: Literally tons of it growing around her place. I wish she grew pot.
cazalla: i've got a couple chillis to go in this spring - anaheim and royal black
cazalla: tomatoes i've got planned are black cherry, mary italian and sweetie
shinohai: oooh nice
shinohai: I buy tomatoes at farmers market usually.
cazalla: not convinced such markets are actually selling the product they claim to be
cazalla: there was some media attention to that effect just a few months ago here.. imported chinese garlic sold as australia.. fucking food labelling here is so awful that you cannot know what comes from where.. example "made in australia from local and imported ingredients"
cazalla: another trick is to import chinese grown produce into australia by way of new zealand so can smack a "made in new zealand" label on it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.00062266 = 6.6313 BTC [-]
shinohai: Here in the Southern US you can identify the real deal easily. The have crude signs that advertise their produce with the most horrific spelling possible.
shinohai: Usually camped out within a few yards of actual gardens xD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00062145 = 15.0391 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236922 <<< how much does a 2012 account go for?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 06:38:31; *: BingoBoingo contemplates selling BTCTalk account and entering a deed of sold in the bot, but...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23411 @ 0.00061981 = 14.5104 BTC [-]
shinohai: BingoBoingo: who are you on btctalk again?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20951 @ 0.00062568 = 13.1086 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28185 @ 0.00061166 = 17.2396 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: !up Uglux
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 263.44, Best ask: 263.45, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 263.45, 24 hour volume: 13872.40075161, 24 hour low: 263.33, 24 hour high: 270.09, 24 hour vwap: None
shinohai: http://thenextweb.com/apple/2015/08/13/just-stop-it/
assbot: A flasher exploited Apple's AirDrop feature ... ( http://bit.ly/1TwPDwu )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00060581 = 10.9652 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00061023 = 6.56 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46500 @ 0.00060498 = 28.1316 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.0006155 = 12.31 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12915 @ 0.00060184 = 7.7728 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4185 @ 0.00059703 = 2.4986 BTC [-]
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/UFOEbGr.png hue
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1N5sa6U )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41350 @ 0.00062117 = 25.6854 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10665 @ 0.00062362 = 6.6509 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27898 @ 0.00061311 = 17.1045 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16275 @ 0.00062362 = 10.1494 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: https://cryptome.org/2015/08/se-ends-part-assange-probe.htm << lulz
assbot: Sweden Ends Part of Assange Probe ... ( http://bit.ly/1hzBp20 )
asciilifeform: ^ reads like an atrociously bad translation ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00063316 = 15.1958 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236825 << looks like. there is this standard pattern of 'mentions interesting people/events, but no apparent contribution to the subject'
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 04:55:04; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform linked cryptome article badly stitched together effort of random derp to get his name out there ?
asciilifeform: what i don't get is - why?
asciilifeform: wtf is the point.
asciilifeform: smoke screen is the only rational explanation i can think of thus far.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236826 << tried to read several works of mr t. utter garbage.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 04:55:16; mircea_popescu: <phf> i thought Thompson was mostly a polemicist, are there any articles of his where he successfully "blows a lid" off something? << no.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236905 << please post your rotor directory tree.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 06:25:25; pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/3VCV3R8.txt << where my 'rotor' efforts for debian 7 currently rest.
asciilifeform: from this point on, this applies to anyone who wants help in building the thing
asciilifeform: i am not a clairvoyant, cannot read your hard disk ! gotta give me something to work with.
kakobrekla: he is so modest.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236937 << i read some variant of this claptrap on usenet, in, when, '96 ?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 06:48:16; assbot: Economies and corporations explained using cows - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nc0fRJ )
asciilifeform: funny how these things get recycled forever.
shinohai: ;;later tell pete_dushenski pm me and I'll get you past http://dpaste.com/3VCV3R8.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NbXEr6 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236842 << all three of these were translated (the traditional ru single-voice crappy dub) and i saw'em as a boy
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 05:01:16; wilbns: ducktales, gummy bears and talespin over here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00062718 = 10.0349 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39592 @ 0.00060991 = 24.1476 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1236984 << can't wait for these to come with a cranked dynamo (preferably in the cab proper, perhaps somewhere under dashboard?)
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 07:49:31; punkman: http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/12/ohm-is-a-smarter-lighter-car-battery-that-works-with-your-existing-car/
asciilifeform: then we can go full circle to the old days when there was no such thing as a car you couldn't start by hand
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77504 @ 0.00060968 = 47.2526 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1759 @ 0.00060961 = 1.0723 BTC [-] {3}
pete_dushenski: shinohai: wonder of wonder, miracle of miracles, i took rotor by the hand, turned him around and - miracle of miracles - led him to the promised land !
shinohai: sweet :)
pete_dushenski: as such, 'tevye' is currently at 24404 and climbing
funkenstein_: pete_dushenski, congrats :)
pete_dushenski: soon, he will be a rich man !
funkenstein_: "For man only stays human by preserving large patches of simplicity in his life, while the tendency of many modern inventions-in particular the film, the radio and the aeroplane-is to weaken his consciousness, dull his curiosity, and, in general, drive him nearer to the animals."
shinohai: I liked this morning article as well. You may have noticed I fumbled the syntax.
funkenstein_: The man has a great point, but, where did this thing start that humans are not animals, and in what crib do I find it to strangle it?
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: lol cheers. i'm sorta surprised i didn't need more help than i did
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mod6 'tevye' the debian 7 rotor lives !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: who's the author of this quote ?
funkenstein_: from the orwel series
pete_dushenski: aha
pete_dushenski: which essay in particular ?
funkenstein_: Pleasure Spots - Orwell
pete_dushenski: cool. i'm currently wandering through 'inside the whale'
funkenstein_: wow that looks like a mega-review, consistent with his recommendation for book reviewers linked earlier :)
funkenstein_: I must say the rotor is a software release like no other I have seen, yes very deterministic
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_ speaking of nothing, are you still blogging much ? and what was the name of your site again ?
funkenstein_: perhaps in some way similar to simply passing around a massive virtual machine file (yes I'm fishing for a correction on this)
pete_dushenski: we never had it added to scoopbot_revived it seems.
funkenstein_: I've been busy but got several pieces started and torn up ;)
pete_dushenski: from what i recall of it, i'd much rather read funkenstein_'s writings than this junk http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1220877. as prophetic as this bit of ta was
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 15:05:18; scoopbot_revived: Short Term Update: headed to $255 https://btctrading.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/short-term-update-headed-to-255/
funkenstein_: I am hoping you will still be able to contravex us regulary even with new arrivals :)
funkenstein_: frass.woodcoin.org <-- another place I display my ignorance from time to time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00062415 = 5.5549 BTC [+]
punkman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_Jennings
assbot: Jazz Jennings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsKh3u )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell williamdunne can we see about having frass.woodcoin.org to scoopy's roster ? please and thanks
gribble: The operation succeeded.
williamdunne: Yes
pete_dushenski: cheers
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: i imagine that contravex posts will either become shorter or slightly less frequent, but we shall see
pete_dushenski: it may go back to the 2-3 per week it was in its first ~6 months before it ramped up to the current 4-5 per week
pete_dushenski: !up thestringpuller
thestringpuller: did anything come of this? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-01-2015#969761
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu:"The IsStandard() rules have been almost completely removed for P2SH redemption scripts"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.0006042 = 29.4245 BTC [-] {4}
pete_dushenski: "Imagine for a second that you see a great street juggler. He deserves a token of your appreciation. However instead of putting a hat out, he puts a sign up:"
pete_dushenski: "Thanks for your support! Please drive to E.Bumfuck, Ontario on Tuesday between 2 and 3 pm to make a donation, where we accept Disneyland Tickets or Hershey Park rain-date vouchers."
pete_dushenski: ^cute imagery
punkman: where;s that from
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_'s http://frass.woodcoin.org/musicians-publish-a-fucking-address-already/
assbot: Musicians: Publish a fucking address already | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsL5pk )
thestringpuller: /wind 5
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90150 @ 0.00059419 = 53.5662 BTC [-] {9}
pete_dushenski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/11/memory_hole_roots_intel_processors/ << somehow hasn't made it in here yet
assbot: Intel left a fascinating security flaw in its chips for 16 years – here's how to exploit it • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsN0tX )
pete_dushenski: if this doesn't have you hunting the local classifieds for amd opterons and fxes, i dunno what will
pete_dushenski: "The good news is that Intel spotted the howler in its processor blueprints, and corrected the issue: chips built from January 2011 and onwards (Sandy Bridge Core CPUs and later) are not affected. " << highly suspicious
pete_dushenski: "old intel products like all old computing hardware is unsafe at any speed. please to upgrade to latest blackbox for maximal safety and suckoority"
pete_dushenski: mhm. right.
scoopbot_revived: A little bit of local research. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/13/a-little-bit-of-local-research/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237119 << howling idiocy. smm has been in the official docs, from intel and amd both, since 486.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 15:26:25; pete_dushenski: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/11/memory_hole_roots_intel_processors/ << somehow hasn't made it in here yet
pete_dushenski: "When the Pentium Pro (a P6 family chip) arrived in 1995, Intel allowed kernel-level developers to reprogram the local APIC so that it would appear elsewhere in physical memory. This was handy for moving the local APIC out of the way of low-level software that expected to use that high 0xFEE00000 address for something else."
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: so amd is no cure for this nonsense ? and i'm guessing ppc is in the same boat ?
asciilifeform: which nonsense
asciilifeform: if you run coreboot (aka linuxbios) you get to put whatever the fuck you want in smram
asciilifeform: including nothing at all
asciilifeform: likewise you can turn off all sources of smi (system managament interrupt) that put the machine in smm handler to begin with
asciilifeform: (ring0 code can still trigger smi by writing particular vendor-specific magic to the southbridge, but this is in no sense a vuln)
phf: also relevant https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/sinkhole
assbot: xoreaxeaxeax/sinkhole · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsPhW3 )
pete_dushenski: "So Domas looked through Intel's sample SMM code, which is provided to firmware vendors to bake into motherboards. It turns out that pretty much all vendors use Intel's template SMM code."
asciilifeform: the apic thing is also a snore, in the sense of NO SHIT anything that sits on the bus can read from arbitrary physical ram
asciilifeform: including, say, your ethernet card
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the typical application for smm is items like the screen brightness keys found on laptops
pete_dushenski: don't forget key brightness
phf: seems reminiscent of bios virii from back then. "if you boot this floopy..! well, no shit"
asciilifeform: where the cpu needs to do a certain brief chore in an os-agnostic way
asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/04/intel_pays_double_for_women_and_ethnic_minorities << mega-l0l
assbot: Intel doubles its bounty for women and ethnic minorities • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsR4u7 )
pete_dushenski: shinohai: http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/12/serenissima-your-serenissma-2015/#comment-26215
assbot: Serenissima Your Serenissma (2015) | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsRbpB )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237071 << congrats pete_dushenski !
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 14:44:54; pete_dushenski: shinohai: wonder of wonder, miracle of miracles, i took rotor by the hand, turned him around and - miracle of miracles - led him to the promised land !
pete_dushenski: haha thanks :D
asciilifeform: anyone still remains who tried to build rotor, but could not ?
asciilifeform: hanbot ?
pete_dushenski: i am now a ~real~ man
shinohai: awesum
pete_dushenski: https://youtu.be/DDW4hTWbRYs?t=22m30s << 'to hunt is ~so~ much fun, it is a great feeling when you kill an animal. it make you feel like a ~real~ man.'
assbot: Borat's Guide to Britain - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsRT69 )
pete_dushenski: and with that, i'm off to have my weary joints and hulking muscles massaged good and proper. adieu !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237135 << so, i read the slides. 1) 20MB powerpoint pdf turd?!!! wtf, people. 2) the picture which implies priv escalation is disingenuous. there is, just as i said earlier, no esclation. you gotta be in ring0 to move the apic window. NONE OF THIS SHIT WAS SECRET, how did they even get a talking slot at 'blackhat' ?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 15:43:43; phf: also relevant https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/sinkhole
BingoBoingo has a feeling asciilifeform could be the entire speaker slate at blackhat with things known since time immemorial. A few years ago I thought things being presented were novel. Now I look at the program and see loads of snore.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: one reason for this change is that ~actual~ exploits are (or are at least now thought to be) worth money.
phf: asciilifeform: i think that's a standard blackhat fair. i think the useful part is another cubbyhole to put rootkit fallback hooks, but it's presented like an earth shattering revelation, because
BingoBoingo: Seems people finally got the memo that if you find it you can sell it.
asciilifeform: phf: except that my fucking ~~~486~~~ reference manual describes smm
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ... if you find it you can sell it. << not quite. i, for instance, can't sell it
asciilifeform: here's an observation:
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: ... if you find it you can sell it. << not quite. i, for instance, can't sell it << You have well founded suspicions of what happens to the unannoited who sell
asciilifeform: vendors want the 0day market to be a 'tournament market'
asciilifeform: where thousands of disposable 19-year-olds fight for a chance to publicly measure their cocks
asciilifeform: while giving the goods away for almost nothing
asciilifeform: but what they have really succeeded in is creating a 'fuck-you market'
asciilifeform: where plenty of folks just sit on the goods, 'because fuck you'
asciilifeform: it isn't even because i expect to meet up with folks who pay the 'fair price' at some future time,
asciilifeform: but simply because scorched earth.
phf: i think you have higher expectation of what should be coming out of security conferences. toorcon, schmoocon, defcon, blackhat (though i always though bh is like a grownup version) always seemed like a poc||gtfo in a face-to-face with beer format
asciilifeform: phf: there was, at one time, considerably less flavour of scammitude and in-your-face lying
asciilifeform: also fewer 'eiffel towers built of matchsticks' - elaborately labyrinthine 'rube goldberg' machines, like the last third of that slide deck, which ultimately sum to 'i read a 486 manual taken from a dumpster'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the way it presently works is that the seller is at the total mercy of the buyer. disposable 19y.o. puts up with this because he is fucked in the head. a grown man - typically - does not
phf: when was that exactly? because i stopped following infosec in 2003 (i think last toorcon i've been to was 2005) and looking at it now not much has changed. the releases are definitely a lot less interesting, because of the 0day market, but when i ragequit it was the same shit. weak releases by pushy guys in faux military gear as a norm, occasional interesting stuff from the usual suspects and practically negative desire to come up with systemati
phf: c solutions that address problems at the core
asciilifeform: for the record, i have never attended such an event
asciilifeform: but occasionally read the slides, at the instigation of colleagues and various other folks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00062104 = 13.7871 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: it is virtually always the same kind of thing.
asciilifeform: the point i was trying to make is that: i hypothesize that the '0day market' consists very largely of folks who are sitting on 0day and not 'marketing' at all
asciilifeform: because they are not 19
asciilifeform: and/or do not want to give aid and comfort to usg.
BingoBoingo: Makes sense
asciilifeform: a simple calculation shows that - unless one is extraordinarily lucky - the effort which goes into finding a typical vuln, vs the typical 'bug bounty' offered by, e.g., microshit, works out to approximately u.s. minimum wage.
phf: i dunno, i think people sit on a lot of denial of service, but developing that to a working exploit takes time and unhealthy level of juvenile ocd.
asciilifeform: phf: perhaps my perspective is a little skewed because i do hardware.
BingoBoingo: Related http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-blades-11056
assbot: Fuck Everything, We're Doing Five Blades - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1IKQ5Er )
mats: there is no systematic solution to be had
mats: just shrinking the attack surface a bit.
phf: i think that's the biggest advantage NSA has incidentally, because they can print money, they can probably just spin up a team for every single "core dump on a funny input" and bring it to a point where it'll successfully eat a shellcode. older salaried reversers simply don't have time or desire for that sort of stuff. that's in software world anyway.
asciilifeform: phf: this labour is traditionally contracted out, aha
asciilifeform: i know a fellow who used to work in one of those farms
asciilifeform: they didn't even 'clearance' the slaves, as this costs far too much and eats into the margins
asciilifeform: he was in his early 20s, iirc, and it was an upgrade from driving truck, so looked like a good job.
phf: hehehe
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237194 << solution to what ?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 16:43:50; mats: there is no systematic solution to be had
mats: the problems phf speaks of, which I imagine are endemic vulns in software
asciilifeform: there is always the obvious solution.
mats: burn the thing to the ground, I know
phf: mats: there's a systematic solution to an entire class of problems. in the poor people world perl "solved" buffer overflows on string input by closing the abstraction leak, meanwhile introducing its own leaky abstraction, i.e. string injection attacks. the solution to that problem was known for 50 years now, specifically structured/validated data
asciilifeform: (burn the whole fucking lot, and start with sane programs written by sane people for sanely designed machines)
asciilifeform: the ultimate systemic solution is 'fits-in-head'
mats: as I think more about it, there may yet be a software solution... will share later. asciilifeform will not like it - this involves, inevitably, a multitude of mitigations
asciilifeform: 'mitigations' in which we can make plenty of (imaginary) money digging for holes in, aha
asciilifeform: good times.
phf: ^
mats: this is the ship we got, and its underway. for those on it, the holes must be plugged; we cannot return to port and build anew
asciilifeform: mats: plenty of islands to take your chances on.
asciilifeform: sinking on the ship is - voluntary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24676 @ 0.00059754 = 14.7449 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237091 << if you recall, this was my original (~6 mo. ago) suggestion for how to do development on therealbitcoin. but a number of folks (chiefly mircea_popescu) did not like it. for entirely logical reasons
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 14:56:38; funkenstein_: perhaps in some way similar to simply passing around a massive virtual machine file (yes I'm fishing for a correction on this)
asciilifeform: then again, 99% of the time spent by folks who aren't me, thus far, appears to have been spent chasing various annoying little misconfigurations
asciilifeform: but upside is that we aren't passing around a massive binary turd.
phf: a deployment strategy in that case could be qemu-x86 -hda bitcoind.img -hdb /dev/blockchain_drive
asciilifeform: slow.
asciilifeform: this was to have been for ~development~ only.
asciilifeform: (compile would be 50x slower, yes. but only compile.)
phf: add OP_SIGVERIFY as an intel instruction :)
phf ducks
asciilifeform: ew
phf: turdels all the way down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29300 @ 0.00059323 = 17.3816 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1XSRG62.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00059886 = 19.2833 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34657 @ 0.00059381 = 20.5797 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39023 @ 0.00059323 = 23.1496 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up Belxjander
asciilifeform: Belxjander: AmigaOS ?!
mats: anyway, as phf says, it is of course possible to kill certain classes of vulns in C, be it memory mgmt to fix corruption, strncpy and the _s functions from MS for known, fixed size destinations, properly strict coding conventions, reducing attack surface with sandboxing e.g. NaCl, and full SFI/CFI
mats: this works better than suggesting folks write code in ocaml, erlang, haskell, etc...
mats: and more reasonable than casting sailors to islands filled with savages
asciilifeform: holy fuck is mats telling us now that winblowz can be lived with ?
mats: i didn't say that. but _the cost of attack can still be substantially increased_
asciilifeform: the cost of dredging up an 0day from the infinite stash of stuxnetiana is still zero (for usg)
asciilifeform: regardless of whether folks run 'lint' or whatnot on their own shit.
mats: we have fences nao. but, what if 萬里長城 can be had?
asciilifeform: l0
asciilifeform: l
mats: dunno man. maybe i'm lost in the matrix.
asciilifeform: did mats just use great wall of cn as example of 'secure' !
asciilifeform: why not maginot line!
mats: hey, i've maintained that its about increasing cost. not preventing the barbarians from entering.
asciilifeform: mats: ever play 'underhanded c contest' ?
asciilifeform: (or at least read the medalists' entries)
mats: yes, have read
asciilifeform: how many of these would be caught by, e.g., 'cyclone' ?
asciilifeform: or whatever your favourite c tool was
mats: not many.
asciilifeform: ergo 'mitigation' is medicine for a corpse.
asciilifeform: now, if some schmuck wants to pay you to administer medicine to a corpse, go ahead.
asciilifeform: but to advocate it as some kind of actual state of the art, is another thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51576 @ 0.00060814 = 31.3654 BTC [+] {3}
mats: well, sure. like a detective or a physician, folks attempting to write secure applications begin from a position of weakness. and rarely win.
asciilifeform: mortician.
mats: there are criminals to catch and people to save, regardless
asciilifeform: http://www.coindesk.com/itbit-adds-nsa-veteran-to-advisory-board << mega-l0l
assbot: ItBit Adds NSA Veteran to Advisory Board ... ( http://bit.ly/1JfuYxx )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4231 @ 0.00061194 = 2.5891 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mats: folks who begin from 'mitigation' position, cannot win by definition. they aren't even trying to. just to 'lose more slowly'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5556 @ 0.00060541 = 3.3637 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: usg's most effective weapon is the learned helplessness of schmucks who accept 'being pwned is inevitable fact of life'
asciilifeform: see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774690 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774691 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774692
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: sheath, you have traded places with the *pederasti* - now you are sighted, and they are blind. Now you no longer struggle in the darkness with something foggy and omnipresent, which softly absorbs every blow - instead, you can now clearly make out a pathetic piece of shit, which has smeared itself over the most important part - the eyes - of a large and powerful man. You can now deal blows, directly s
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: results - and from this comes strength; the fight now turns, from a draining, futile floundering - to a merry, wrathful clobbering of a dying vermin, who with us - men - has nothing whatsoever in common. But it all begins - with nonparticipation.' (Беркем аль Атоми, articles. translation mine.)
phf: не верьне бойся не проси
asciilifeform: pocket-sized version of same.
asciilifeform: the poor english folks have not invented this technology yet. so gotta teach'em.
asciilifeform: slow, painful process, like teaching the water closet to india.
asciilifeform: it has to start out as an abstract 'don't shit in your drinking water'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44500 @ 0.00062237 = 27.6955 BTC [+] {2}
phf: mats: well, i actually meant the opposite. classes of attacks can be eliminated by not using c. i think that majority of the attacks come from leaky abstractions. there's no <string> in c, but there's a null terminated memory region. there's no <sql> in perl, but there's a character array with sql text in it. one of the solutions is to plug abstraction holes on a level of the language, in such a way that you can't not use improved abstractions
phf: e.g. sql_execute takes character arrays. if your sql_execute took ASTs instead, well, in that case you can't violate the assumptions of the abstraction
phf: traditional infosec solution to problems like that is a proactive bandaid and then yelling at people for not using bandaid appropriately
mircea_popescu: phf iirc this theory was variously tried and failed to deliver.
mircea_popescu: it turns out that the sort of people who write good code write it in asm for a z80 or in c
mircea_popescu: and the rest can not be mechanically helped.
phf: in the sql example, it's sql_execute('select * from ' + sql_var_sanitize(variable)). naturally people keep forgetting the sql_var_sanitize
mircea_popescu: so the solution remains to plug the holes in the heads. either alf style, with bullets, or else wot style, or somehow unknown yet.
mircea_popescu: but there's nothing "naturally" about stupidity.
mircea_popescu: do people naturally forget to breathe ?
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if we don't have history to learn from.
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/3gus46/did_anyone_take_mircea_popescus_offer_hed_need/ << reddit has circlejerk. somehow it fails to read "oh shit, if only we had any money then. or now" and isntead reads "oh how mp is bad mkay"
assbot: Did anyone take Mircea Popescu's offer? He'd need more than 25000 BTC to settle his bet now... : ethtrader ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jfxx2J )
asciilifeform: i was playing with a hp200lx, it is orders of magnitude more responsive than 'iPnohe' etc. for note taking, text editing, spreadshits, etc
asciilifeform: and runs msdos, even. complete with xmm!
asciilifeform: pair of 'aa' cells runs it for a MONTH
asciilifeform: and doesn't crash.
mircea_popescu: but i liked the part about "he abandoned twitter so is no longer reachable"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the top google result for i will pay for your tits is still me.
ag3nt_zer0: good afternoon
mircea_popescu: ello
asciilifeform: 'I sort of hope she crashed and burned on this one..'
asciilifeform: l0l, we all knew!
asciilifeform: hanbot you can turn off the android now
mircea_popescu: kids today. a myopic.
asciilifeform: we learned the seekrit.
mircea_popescu: waitwut ?
asciilifeform: the 'mircea is a gurl' meme lives on, in that thread
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: a while back we were having an exchange about tienanmen and it's relation (or non) to the fall of the wall... I have looked a bit in the direction you indicated but haven't found so much... you got any rcommended paths for that ?
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: learn ru or mandarin
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: srsly.
mircea_popescu: lol
mats: tiananmen sq literally does not matter to anybody but english readers
phf: mircea_popescu: yeah, i've not reevaluated it since the last time i thought it, which was 2005 or so
asciilifeform: (if you are specifically interested in cn matters, mandarin. if you just want to unplug from the idiot anglo cultural matrix, ru.)
mircea_popescu: phf don't get me wrong, i'd love for it to work. i'd also love for the "not beating kids makes them smarter" and "all education should consist of is encouragement" nonsense to work.
mircea_popescu: was fashionable (in russia, too) coupla decades ago.
mircea_popescu: sadly...
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 you have to understand that this entire "market" thing is more of a DoS thing than a local thing. there isn't a substantial similarity between ukraina and china that makes both appear in the press you read as "so and so square".
asciilifeform: ag3nt_zer0: it matters to cn only in the sense that your body killing a particular bacterium you ate last night matters to you.
mircea_popescu: the notion that people in china dislike their government to any degree is not unlike claiming that there's going to be a peasant revolt that'll shoot stalin', where stalin' = stalin - 99.9% of the killings.
mircea_popescu: it's rank nonsense, they love it (perhaps for good reason) like you love washington.
asciilifeform: usg tried to 'orange revolution', failed. tries again every day since.
ag3nt_zer0: haha
mircea_popescu: but re the languages thing : both ru and cn have ~their own~ idiot matrices.
phf: mircea_popescu: my russian education was downright abusive by u.s. standards. or you're talking eton style mandatory beatings?
mircea_popescu: so no : you can not be mechanically helped.
asciilifeform: cn, like ru, has plenty of experience (which arguably neither ever fully recovered from!) of being ruled by foreign yoke
mircea_popescu: phf no no, i dunno if you ever met these or not, but
mircea_popescu: right after the 90s these "englightened" folks started to pop up, usually looking just like steve jobs
mircea_popescu: with betterment ideas and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: this communicate anything ?
mircea_popescu: it was almost like a cult, of sorts.
mircea_popescu: one of the fringes of "intellectual" throughout the period.
scoopbot_revived: Montreal Expo Postponed For Lack of Sponsors http://qntra.net/2015/08/montreal-expo-postponed-for-lack-of-sponsors/
phf: no, my school was ran by a strong georgian woman pretty much on her terms. 35A 35B starting classes were reduced to 12A 15B by 12th grade, through gentle "your kid is just not right for this place. i suggest you remove him, because it might get very HARD for him to study here very soon"
mircea_popescu: well, specifically what triggered me was the proposition that "this man that is doing a bad job would do a better job weith better tools"
mircea_popescu: the societal consensus being at the time that "to the best worker belong the best tools"
asciilifeform was always envious of his elder brother, who did all ten grades in the proper school.
mircea_popescu: this was a major thought cleavage, which i noticed at the time, and i noticed that people were actually visibly... peculiar about other things.
ag3nt_zer0: okay thanks for the byzantine feedback
asciilifeform did all but two grades in the land of mordor
mircea_popescu: but maybe just my anecdote
ag3nt_zer0: I wouldn't want it any other way
mircea_popescu: to my eyes what separates these is a major chasm.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237000 << how's this different from being affraid of being gay ?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 09:36:42; cazalla: guy's a barber too but just like his offer to take what i want from his backyard, i turn down offers for haircut and straight razor shave
mircea_popescu: poor old guy, gets isolated because people are getting incredibly weirder, and then when he tries to break out that's grounds for further isolation ?
mircea_popescu: roast a fuckjing rabbit take it over or something sane.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237014 << whiole that lasts.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 09:59:16; shinohai: Here in the Southern US you can identify the real deal easily. The have crude signs that advertise their produce with the most horrific spelling possible.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> well, specifically what triggered me was the proposition that "this man that is doing a bad job would do a better job weith better tools" << now, if it were simply a matter of strength and weakness, one could argue that 'more folks could dig well with bulldozer than with spade'
asciilifeform: but it isn't
asciilifeform: it is really a matter of 'malicious twerp will level more houses with bulldozer than with spade'
mircea_popescu: maybe not that far, but certainly in between the two.
asciilifeform: illustration of overall direction.
mircea_popescu: how about
mircea_popescu: 'malignant twerp will level more houses with bulldozer than with spade'
mircea_popescu: i can see that.
mircea_popescu: bbs
ag3nt_zer0: on another note I was doing some reading on the history of astrology yesterday and came across the "fact" that originally, in mesopotamia, what became astrology began as a simple catalog of omens, reflected in "if this, then that" statements... this avenue was state-sponsered too... just got me thinking of the "evolution" of this logic and how these same statements are now applied to exclusively reductionist pragmatic mat
asciilifeform: for instance, when my brother was a uni student and took 'operating systems', they were stuck testing on actual 486 and reboot, reboot, 500 times a day with precious little meaningful output
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7671 @ 0.00062236 = 4.7741 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: when i was, decade later, we had proper emulator
asciilifeform: imagine, i thought, what an advance, you can finally emulate a proper pc on itself
asciilifeform: what bug could survive
asciilifeform: but no such thing, of course, ever happened.
asciilifeform: instead emulator (and, more often, its optimized sibling, virtualizator) is used to host ten thousand instances of lolcat server on one poor intel box
phf: mircea_popescu: i see the parallels, yeah i was insulated from that sort of mentality, but i was also insulated from the stupid and the lazy
phf: the idea that "would do better job with better tools" applies very differently when you're dealing with people who are already operating at near capacity and would benefit from a better tool
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: my entire blog, all ~7+ years of it, is about this.
asciilifeform bbl.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46040 @ 0.00061018 = 28.0927 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishlibrary/11305478975/in/album-72157638544764936/ lol
assbot: Image taken from page 582 of 'The United States of America. A study of the American Commonwealth, its natural resources, people, industries, manufactures, commerce, and its work in literature, science, education and self-government. [By various authors.] | Flickr - Photo Sharing! ... ( http://bit.ly/1DQIWDy )
jurov: britishlibrary released zillions of pics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46665 @ 0.00059558 = 27.7927 BTC [-] {3}
mats: http://blog.exodusintel.com/2015/08/13/stagefright-mission-accomplished
assbot: Stagefright: Mission Accomplished? | Exodus Intelligence ... ( http://bit.ly/1PnLhqW )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27398 @ 0.00059486 = 16.298 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26596 @ 0.00060811 = 16.1733 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00059294 = 17.1656 BTC [-] {3}
mats: if you're the guy pissing double digit share orders in the mpoe book, you suck
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237379 << l0l!
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 20:15:56; mats: http://blog.exodusintel.com/2015/08/13/stagefright-mission-accomplished
asciilifeform: 'In summary, the Stagefright disclosure process was an interesting one to observe. The (un)surprising outcome being that given all the exposure this vulnerability received combined with essentially infinite resources on the vendor side, effective security mitigations were still not deployed.'
mats: project0 too busy chasing the sexy bugs
asciilifeform: 'Despite our notification (and their confirmation), Google is still currently distributing the faulty patch to Android devices via OTA updates.'
asciilifeform: Run Moar Turdroid !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00059167 = 6.1534 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: 'For example, if a malicious MP4 is crafted with a chunk_size of 0x1ffffffff (notice this is larger than a 32-bit value) the faulty overflow check will be bypassed because chunk_size > SIZE_MAX. Next, chunk_size is added to size. If size is any value greater than 0, an integer overflow will occur. If, for instance, size is 1, the addition will result in a value of 0x200000000, which is larger than a 32-bit value. The following
asciilifeform: call to the new operator will truncate that value down to fit into a 32-bit integer, thus allocating an undersized buffer. Subsequently, chunk_size worth of data is read into this undersized buffer. Even if the value is truncated to 32-bits, the function will still read 0xFFFFFFFF bytes into the buffer, leading to a heap overflow...'
asciilifeform: aaaaand i'm still a loonie for calling for, among other things, a cpu with hardware bounds checking.
asciilifeform: y'know, like they had in 1978.
asciilifeform: the less room for 'oops', the harder it is for scoundrels to masquerade as imbeciles.
asciilifeform: (mircea_popescu's eternal question re: why do we have imbeciles programming computers is a valid but separate question)
mats: race ya to the bottom.
trinque adjusts his tin foil hat
trinque: the amount of time it takes to "fix" things like this is... notable
trinque: stuxnet patch, same
asciilifeform: trinque: afaik, stuxnet ~still~ works
trinque: yeah, that's what I've read
asciilifeform: would be interesting to learn how it contacts the apparently-dead c&c boxes
asciilifeform: prolly reroute of traffic out of .ir at the backbone
asciilifeform: to 'magic' routes
trinque: interesting thought
asciilifeform: where the old hosts still resolve to something working
asciilifeform: (alternatively, vuln is kept alive for some nth-generation revised variant that never lost contact)
mats: i met a guy that took abacus classes and placed p high at competitions in junior high
mats: he did a buncha 3x5 (digit) calculations for me to prove he could do it, i was impressed
asciilifeform: nobody cancelled abacus.
asciilifeform: but a decent stage magician can do 3x5 mentally in a few sec.
asciilifeform: (digits)
mats: in his head, mind you: i spat out e.g. 253 * 35923 and it took him ~3s to give me an answer
asciilifeform: aha then
trinque: I'll take a machine for that
mats: wish i had that skill. would be useful for conversions between base16, base10, base8, base2 conversions when doing low level computering
asciilifeform: !s trachtenberg
assbot: 4 results for 'trachtenberg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trachtenberg
asciilifeform: ^ one source
mats: saved
trinque: alt-T py<tab><ent> 253*35923<ent>
trinque: probably ~3sec
kakobrekla: hm when i was a kid a had a base2 wrist watch
kakobrekla: it wasnt long before pattern recognition kicked in
kakobrekla: and i wasnt doing any more math.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13423 @ 0.00062387 = 8.3742 BTC [+]
trinque: yeah, I had a hex clock on my taskbar for a bit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38228 @ 0.00062366 = 23.8413 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: why? probably nothing more than social signaling... "omg s0 1337"
kakobrekla: to impress the gurlz!
trinque: lol, ey girl check out my leet hax
trinque: *panties disintegrate*
kakobrekla: mhm
asciilifeform invites somebody to try retesting a phuctored key, e.g., http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A627338D751C449EA54C0BA518ABCB2E215D939534F7D149C246EA9EA0D36279
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1EpDYsu )
asciilifeform: ^ this change is unfortunately necessary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37450 @ 0.00062414 = 23.374 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00062415 = 13.9185 BTC [+]
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021525 B (Total: 427.66 B). Delta: 0.11 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: Are you sure you have no tobacco?
jurov: !t m x.eur
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00383684 / 0.00383761 / 0.00383776 (70 shares, 0.27 BTC), 7D: 0.00383637 / 0.00383789 / 0.00384028 (862 shares, 3.31 BTC), 30D: 0.0035 / 0.0038522 / 0.00397942 (5634 shares, 21.70 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00062415 = 18.9742 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.0006236 = 23.9151 BTC [-]
trinque: bwahaha assbot askin for smokes?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39198 @ 0.00062899 = 24.6552 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: Equalitits http://www.bnd.com/news/local/community/highland-news-leader/article31009581.html
assbot: New IHSA ‘success factor’ rule has Mater Dei volleyball in the state’s biggest playoff class | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3f3vM )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.0006236 = 14.7793 BTC [-]
phf: <assbot> начальник, папароски не найдется
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00063006 = 20.8865 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00062412 = 17.2881 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3808 @ 0.00063006 = 2.3993 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12864 @ 0.00063006 = 8.1051 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ahh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55900 @ 0.00062412 = 34.8883 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00063006 = 3.2133 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: overheard in #eulora : <diana_coman> the middle road is shit
mircea_popescu: win.
mircea_popescu: media cacorea.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237047 << purely formal approach to life. about at the level of intellectual maturity of pubers that scribble down their name + sexual interest's.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 14:02:03; asciilifeform: wtf is the point.
mircea_popescu: it... DOES SOMETHING
mircea_popescu: if you draw hearts or explosions or w/e around it, even better/
mircea_popescu: obviously once rigurous education is abandoned, the whole of society reverts to a "tribe of monkeys" levels.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237054 << i thought you were a reverse engineering hacker, what scammery is is this!
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 14:06:12; asciilifeform: i am not a clairvoyant, cannot read your hard disk ! gotta give me something to work with.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00063006 = 9.6399 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237078 << "humans are not animals" is in the vein of "crickets are not bugs - they also sing."
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 14:46:10; funkenstein_: The man has a great point, but, where did this thing start that humans are not animals, and in what crib do I find it to strangle it?
mircea_popescu: there's an elided [just] in there, which the illiterately-literate have no idea about.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237131 << im starting to suspect a "alf's guide to coreboot" full doc would be more valuable than anything on cryptome currently and really a great addition to loper-os. provided it actually is complete.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 15:41:57; asciilifeform: if you run coreboot (aka linuxbios) you get to put whatever the fuck you want in smram
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237144 << this is so retarded. so if i'm in the business of selling 0 days i better hire anothr white man to keep a stable of enslaved african women to provide me with for the purpose of arbitraging this insanity ?
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 15:56:51; asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/04/intel_pays_double_for_women_and_ethnic_minorities << mega-l0l
mircea_popescu: why is the usg so insistent in pushing its "private" agencies into forcing slavery on random people ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237165 << i have no problem with s.nsa offering a catalog of 0days for sale in bitcoin. write it up.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 16:25:17; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ... if you find it you can sell it. << not quite. i, for instance, can't sell it
mircea_popescu: we can even have a "usg affiliated entities pay 4x, people not in wot pay 2x."
mircea_popescu: can be cummulative.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237179 << i am broadly in agreement with him. last time i went to one there was a pr&modelling conference nearby and i ended up just hanging out with the gals.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 16:37:05; phf: when was that exactly? because i stopped following infosec in 2003 (i think last toorcon i've been to was 2005) and looking at it now not much has changed. the releases are definitely a lot less interesting, because of the 0day market, but when i ragequit it was the same shit. weak releases by pushy guys in faux military gear as a norm, occasional interesting stuff from the usual suspects and practically negati
mircea_popescu: decade+ ago
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237196 << this is completely imaginary. the nsa can't hire enough talent to keep its own systems running safely. printing money does not help in any sense, if they got a 10x budget approved they't just pay the same people within maybe 5% ~8-9x more.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 16:44:22; phf: i think that's the biggest advantage NSA has incidentally, because they can print money, they can probably just spin up a team for every single "core dump on a funny input" and bring it to a point where it'll successfully eat a shellcode. older salaried reversers simply don't have time or desire for that sort of stuff. that's in software world anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237208 << this is homomorphic to "exclude everyone currently involved".
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 16:49:27; asciilifeform: (burn the whole fucking lot, and start with sane programs written by sane people for sanely designed machines)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50350 @ 0.00063027 = 31.7341 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237221 << upside is massive but hard to quantify. upside is that we HAVE FOUND THE HOLES IN GCC! upside is that we know what to say about linux, and why we're saying it. upside is that we have rotor, and that we know why nobody without a rotor has a chance. upside of a sane approach is never "where it gets you", but always "where it didn't take you".
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 17:21:57; asciilifeform: but upside is that we aren't passing around a massive binary turd.
mircea_popescu: just like the upside of picking sane girls to fuck isn't "that hot blondie" but "i fucked over a thousand women in my life, most of whose names i don't remember, and yet i never had a venereal disease". that's the upside.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237238 << it is particularly NOT possible to kill memory corruption in C.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 18:36:18; mats: anyway, as phf says, it is of course possible to kill certain classes of vulns in C, be it memory mgmt to fix corruption, strncpy and the _s functions from MS for known, fixed size destinations, properly strict coding conventions, reducing attack surface with sandboxing e.g. NaCl, and full SFI/CFI
mircea_popescu: there's all sorts of ways to make you feel better about it, tho.
mircea_popescu: wanli changcheng omfg so THIS is how it feels when people use languages you don't know.
mircea_popescu: sucks.
mircea_popescu: think about it mats : if great wall "can't be had", if the statement is correct, there's something fundamentally wrong not merely with your fences, but with the idea of making one and more importantly with the process that results in this perceived need.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason people who only have sewer water don't take hot baths in it.
mircea_popescu: if you can't have clean water, not only is it that you can't take a hot bath - it's that you couldn't conceivably want to.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00063172 = 9.0968 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237249 << iirc, the idea wasn';t that it'll keep anyone out. it was that it'll keep the invaders IN long enough, especially if loaded with booty, to make the whole thing impracticable.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 18:42:04; asciilifeform: did mats just use great wall of cn as example of 'secure' !
mircea_popescu: in the sense that yes they could come out of ANYWHERe, and make a hole anywhere, but then had to spend time to loot, and then had to come back AT THE HOLE, ie not anywhere. so either take time to make a new hole or go back to where the old one was. in either case, giving the imperial army enough time to plug their ass.
mircea_popescu: or well... at least in times when the imperial administration was any good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00063173 = 1.3898 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and omg where is everyone
mircea_popescu: are you partying without me ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5793 @ 0.00063174 = 3.6597 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2857 @ 0.00063456 = 1.8129 BTC [+]
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 gentoo was a sucess \o/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00063456 = 10.851 BTC [+]
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237505 << yes. you are the first white person i have encountered that knows this
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 00:53:25; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237249 << iirc, the idea wasn';t that it'll keep anyone out. it was that it'll keep the invaders IN long enough, especially if loaded with booty, to make the whole thing impracticable.
mircea_popescu: well it's spreading now :p
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237476 << unlike, e.g., bitcoin, coreboot is deadly easy to build
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 00:32:27; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237131 << im starting to suspect a "alf's guide to coreboot" full doc would be more valuable than anything on cryptome currently and really a great addition to loper-os. provided it actually is complete.
asciilifeform: actually resembles 'buildroot' and the grandfather, naturally - linux kernel
asciilifeform: (complete with ncurses menuconfig)
mircea_popescu: this does not matter.
asciilifeform: just about everything there is to say about it would fit in a paragraph... let's see:
asciilifeform: 1) their www has a list of boards known to work (and ones that don't, with brief statements of ~why~)
mircea_popescu: take the useful part out of the enemy's tendency to sit in front of things. there is actual value in the "do X, do Y, do Z, you're now done" list.
asciilifeform: 2) the job of the thing is to init the box as quickly as possible and get the fuck out of the way
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237275 << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea+asked+you+anything || that thinbg where alf discusses the actual meaning of "who're you" which i can't now find.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2015 18:55:34; phf: не верьне бойся не проси
assbot: 5 results for 'from:mircea asked you anything' - #bitcoin-assets search
asciilifeform: 3) you can insert an arbitrary binary as payload. the most traditional payload is another item called 'seabios', which emulates typical pc bios and can even boot winblowz
asciilifeform: !s кто ты по жизни
assbot: 0 results for 'кто ты по жизни' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE+%D1%82%D1%8B+%D0%BF%D0%BE+%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8
mircea_popescu: odd huh
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in other news - they've made a new extra dark chocolate icecream. i can't explain it.
asciilifeform: woah
asciilifeform wantz
mircea_popescu: goes especially well cherry cream.
asciilifeform: mm.
asciilifeform: re: earlier thread: http://www.coreboot.org/Supported_Motherboards#Motherboards_supported_in_coreboot
assbot: Supported Motherboards - coreboot ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3uZ14 )
asciilifeform: to this i will add that pretty much anything with an amd on it will run.
asciilifeform: and virtually nothing with an even moderately recent intel - will.
asciilifeform: and by 'run' i mean properly, honest-to-goodness run. with all the peripherals working.
asciilifeform: if you have a reasonably spacious (e.g., 8MB) eeprom, you can cram your favourite linux kernel right in there as payload
asciilifeform: and dispense with 'seabios' etc
asciilifeform: after that, a clever and patient man will take a pair of snippy-cutters
asciilifeform: and snip the write-enable leg off.
asciilifeform: (don't leave it floating, pull the stump to the supply rail (it is typically active-low. consult data sheet!))
asciilifeform: if more patient still, wire it to a front-panel switch.
asciilifeform: not rocket surgery.
asciilifeform: http://www.thingaweak.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/switches_closeup.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1J3vf04 )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237481 << this is more difficult than mircea_popescu might appreciate. for one thing, i do hardware, where merely the ~fact of~ a usable hole existing is half the secret - once you say, credibly, folks know precisely where to look; the other half of it is that i am in the wot neither of folks buying nor of folks brokering; and the third 'half' is that any attempt at this will hav
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 00:36:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237165 << i have no problem with s.nsa offering a catalog of 0days for sale in bitcoin. write it up.
asciilifeform: e to wait for my physical jailbreak from usaschwitz..
gernika: FYI OpenBSD w/o db patch wedged at 367850
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise
mircea_popescu: 1 is readily surmountable by abstraction. i know how to do this. (you may think you are the first to meet the problem - you are not. scripts are sold in show biz all the time etc). 2. is readily solved, whether you like to or not, and 3 yes.
asciilifeform: gernika: precisely where it will sit, forever, until you patch it!
gernika: Patching...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd be delighted to learn how 2 is solved. but the full story can wait for 3 if you like
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform more than content to wait to learn how to fly a carpet until he actually gets the carpet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the pdf to text tool ?
asciilifeform: 'pdf2txt.py' on this box
asciilifeform: came with gentoo package 'pdfminer' iirc
asciilifeform: there may be others
asciilifeform: there is 'pdf2html' but it shits out a massive dir with html index and gif pages
asciilifeform: (rides on ghostscript. any box you run it on, you may as well use a traditional displayer)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... upside of a sane approach is never "where it gets you", but always "where it didn't take you" << aha. precisely this.
asciilifeform: i try to explain this point to folks and nearly always fail
asciilifeform: 'you walked, anybody can walk' 'fine. go and walk back. through the same minefield'
trinque: right, try getting someone to pay for all the bugs you didn't put in their software
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237496 << not without turning your 'c' into a 'half-finished bug-ridden reimplementation of ada'
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 00:46:39; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-08-2015#1237238 << it is particularly NOT possible to kill memory corruption in C.
asciilifeform: (see, e.g., 'cyclone')
asciilifeform: and not then, either.
mircea_popescu: not even yeah
mircea_popescu: it really isn't what it's for.
asciilifeform: for massage only.
asciilifeform: the attempts of folks who tried to 'kill mem corruption in c' are a lulzmine of their own.
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: that said, static allocation goes a long way. this connects to the "fixed time" discussion re rsa yest.
mircea_popescu: specifically - the cheapest and most effective approach to security still is and remains "giving people an easier task". chief on the list of ways to achieve this,
mircea_popescu: stop asking them to do any sort of "optimization"./
asciilifeform: this saves you from leakage but not from corruption (you just trade heap overflow for stack if you fuckup!)
mircea_popescu: "this program takes as much memory torun at all as it totally employs". "this program takes as much time to run every time as it takes the longest time" etc.
mircea_popescu: yes, no sort of hard solution by any means.
asciilifeform: but yes, when this is physically possible, it is done. in any safety-critical system
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: i'm also fond of cramming things in rom
asciilifeform: go overwrite, aha.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: 'romcc' exists. http://www.h-online.com/open/features/About-ROMCC-and-V3-746827.html
assbot: About ROMCC and V3 - The H Open: News and Features ... ( http://bit.ly/1J7qPK3 )
asciilifeform: (thingie which lets you build a c proggy for, i shit thee not, ~stackless+heapless~ machine. as in 0 bytes of addressable ram)
asciilifeform: regs only.
asciilifeform: (naturally it is a bit of a constricted subset of the language)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00063485 = 11.586 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: btw, my ex-gf had no trouble with the gentoo guide aside from asking me about the definitions of a few terms
trinque: n6: wherever you are, take note... following orders gets ya places
mod6: trinque: nice!
mod6: thank your ex-gf for me ;)
trinque: heh will do
trinque: and she says thanks for the guide
mod6: cool. glad she tested it for us.
trinque: her exact request was for a "real computer, and to learn how to program"
trinque: I told her that was exactly the right ordering of the two
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16830 @ 0.00063541 = 10.694 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: I am actually going to throw her at common lisp *first* and see what happens
trinque: watch her end up lapping me
mats: why not sicp
trinque: actually I misspoke, put The Little Schemer in her hands first
trinque: so you're right, scheme's a good choice
trinque: oh hey, this is cool https://xuanji.appspot.com/isicp/
assbot: Interactive SICP ... ( http://bit.ly/1fb0ej1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00063546 = 2.5418 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00062555 = 8.1322 BTC [-]
trinque: http://sicp.shithouse.tv/
assbot: sicp ... ( http://bit.ly/1fb15Ak )
mircea_popescu: !up Asenath
mats: there doesn't appear to be anything actually interactive there
mod6: Well, unless you count submitting the answers to the exercises.
trinque: mats: https://xuanji.appspot.com/isicp/1-1-elements.html
assbot: iSICP 1.1 - The Elements of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1fb1mTL )
mats: oh. i was expecting some kind of output
mod6: And it looks like you can take notes or something
trinque: the examples are editable
trinque: and you have to click outside the editor box, which is lame
mod6: Oh, i didn't notice you could actually edit the examples. neat.
mod6: oh i just deleted a ')', im screwed.
trinque: mod6: here ya go )
mircea_popescu: lawl
mod6: thx trinque ;]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30805 @ 0.00062459 = 19.2405 BTC [-] {3}
gernika: Does it take a while to get past 367850? Or might I still be stuck...
mod6: do you have the maxint_locks_corrected patch applied?
gernika: mod6 I applied asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.patch
gernika: and rebuilt, yes
mod6: ok, good deal. just let it do its thing.
mod6: if start to see repeating errors in debug.log let us know.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237609 << let me know if you discover either of these. i've always wanted.
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 02:11:19; trinque: her exact request was for a "real computer, and to learn how to program"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-08-2015#1237612 << if you think therealbitcoin without rotor is rough, you haven't tried common lisp without emacs+slime...
assbot: Logged on 14-08-2015 02:12:38; trinque: I am actually going to throw her at common lisp *first* and see what happens
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00063597 = 16.6624 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: i suspect that 99% of folks who think they 'hate lisp!111!!111' were created by the harmful delusion that any meaningful work can be done without emacs+slime or the exact equivalent
asciilifeform: (asking folks to, e.g., match parens or indent by hand is ~retarded~)
asciilifeform: ^ or to program in cl without a button that evaluates the current set of parens your cursor is in
asciilifeform: or 101 other essential knobs
asciilifeform: yes, ancestors did not have these. they also lacked water closet.
trinque: asciilifeform: told her as much, lol! right question! sadly, only horribly approximate answers
trinque: I've walked her through setting up both emacs and slime
trinque: she's rather sharp, taking to it well
asciilifeform: in other news, filipinos hard at wurk! >> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3gutfp/if_youre_not_running_a_node_youre_not_really/
assbot: "If you're not running a node, you're not really using Bitcoin." u/luke-jr : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1fb3nPT )
asciilifeform: 'I admit there is value in running a node/mining, but certainly a community that claims to favor freedom should have the ability (and courage) to welcome a diverse range of users, even if they don't meet some arbitrary standard set by an elitist insider.'
asciilifeform: i can't wait for one of these tards to accidentally publish his madlibs template
asciilifeform: like those comment sp4mz0rz on mircea_popescu's site
trinque: tyranny!
trinque: o mai gad
mircea_popescu: onoes, happenings happen ?
asciilifeform: '...redefining "bitcoin user" so that less than 1% of bitcoin holders are anointed as 'Real Users'. Enough already. It smells like tyranny, it looks like tyranny - it IS tyranny. And Bitcoin, more than any other community, should overthrow these flawed attempts at governance. Where a minority holds the rest hostage.'
asciilifeform: pure gold
mircea_popescu: "Remember, bitcoin works through consensus by code. Not consensus by CODERS."
mircea_popescu: except no, it doesn't. but anyway.
mircea_popescu: wtf does "consensus by code" even mean.
asciilifeform: wrong question. what does a screen full of static snow 'mean' ?
asciilifeform: shannonizers don't create meaning
asciilifeform: but lulz, yes, create.
asciilifeform: like watching clouds.
trinque: reduces to "I matter" and I suppose any living thing making a sound is also saying that
asciilifeform: i am reading this to the tune of billions of living things each saying 'i matter i matter chirp i matter'
trinque: haha
asciilifeform: !s brekekekekex
assbot: 0 results for 'brekekekekex' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=brekekekekex
mircea_popescu: well... the thing ius, crickets and frogs and whatnot, which do EXACTLY this, do it to reproduce, and succeed in reproducing.
mircea_popescu: i dunno redditard fucks as a result.
asciilifeform: insect will chirp just so when in a killing jar.
asciilifeform: ergo reddit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00063451 = 9.6128 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2216 @ 0.00063406 = 1.4051 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ;;google brekekekex koax koax
gribble: Aristophanes, Frogs, line 225: <http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Aristoph.%20Frogs%20230>; Word of the day – Brekekekex (Βρεκεκέξ) | Omniglot blog: <http://www.omniglot.com/blog/?p=280>; koax koax brekekekex (finaly) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMhcdbST_YI>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00063649 = 2.1641 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12600 @ 0.00063331 = 7.9797 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00062753 = 6.5891 BTC [-]

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