Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-25 | 2015-07-27 → ↓
ben_vulpes: can confirm the sig is not what i broadcast.
ben_vulpes: script is, however
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15003 @ 0.00056805 = 8.5225 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00056805 = 19.3705 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: methinks jurov's turdolator is mutilating.
mod6: weird-o-rama
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52377 @ 0.00054574 = 28.5842 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10023 @ 0.00054289 = 5.4414 BTC [-]
assbot: dpaste: 1N3TVK6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DG6wh6 )
asciilifeform: (left: the one in the gpggram. right: the one on turdatron.)
asciilifeform: seems like it inserts 0x0d before any 0x0a
asciilifeform: because msdos line endings, aha.
asciilifeform: BURN THE WORLD
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: here is proof. 'dos2unix -f ak47_05243673e45fc4c4ce30467f8ffc003deec1d184.sh.sig' then 'diff foo.sig ak47.sh.sig'
asciilifeform: now - identical.
mod6: Have a bunch of automated tests (cucumber) that now builds the new test bundle, verify, check binary, test -connect, dumpblock, eatblock. ima post a log here in just a bit.
asciilifeform: ('diff ak47_05243673e45fc4c4ce30467f8ffc003deec1d184.sh.sig ak47.sh.sig' rather than foo)
asciilifeform: mod6: neato!
asciilifeform: hanbot: if you do the above on your box, sig will verify.
ben_vulpes: msdos line endings in gpg or in the mailing list mutilator?
asciilifeform: the latter
ben_vulpes: jurov: is the thing really running on windows?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell jurov ^^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc this is standard sendmail behaviour
ben_vulpes: yick.
mod6: i was pretty happy with postfix when i ran an mta like a hundred million internet years ago
asciilifeform: at any rate, this is kinda why we do the whole 7-bit ascii thing
ben_vulpes had not yet pissed on this fence
asciilifeform: iirc it was collectively pissed on months ago
mod6: This test output log is a bit large, after all of the normal build output the goodies are at the end of the file (including the output from all of the subsequent tests & code): http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/v054-TEST1-cukes-log.txt
hanbot: well, glad this was demystified, but
hanbot glares at prospect of having to install new package --just to verify gpg sig--
asciilifeform: mod6: epic backbreaker. but spiffy
mod6: thanks :]
mod6: whole thing takes < 30 minutes to dl, build, & test.
asciilifeform: hanbot: just this one!
asciilifeform: hanbot: ben_vulpes sent a gpg-native binary sig instead of a standard ascii-armoured one by mistake.
asciilifeform: so it got mutilated.
ben_vulpes: ignorance, really.
mod6: at some point next month, i write up a guide on how to set up cucumber as well so any one else who wants to use this can do so on their own environment.
asciilifeform: hanbot ^
hanbot: lovely, thanks guys!
ben_vulpes: you're probably the only person besides me to ever run it
decimation: asciilifeform: more lulzy copyrastry: http://blog.streamingmedia.com/2015/07/new-patent-pool-wants-share-of-revenue-from-content-owners.html < new video codec 'patent pool' wants 0.005*ALL_UR_MONEYS
assbot: New Patent Pool Wants 0.5% Of Every Content Owner/Distributor's Gross Revenue For Higher Quality Video - Dan Rayburn - StreamingMediaBlog.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DG95Qh )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i confess that i have not attempted to run it
decimation: they claim a 50% reduction in bitrates with 'equal mos'
ben_vulpes: you're not a pete_dushenski or a hanbot, why would you
decimation: so prepare for everythining multimedia to be a little shittier and more annoying in the future
asciilifeform: decimation: the gif warz never end
asciilifeform: decimation: obligatory >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 <<
assbot: Loper OS » No Formats, no Format Wars. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DG9cuX )
decimation: yeah, obvious business pattern is obvious
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i confess that i have not attempted to run it << i haven't had a chance either. will give it a go this week.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153000 @ 0.00055715 = 85.244 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: decimation: sometimes even goes the other way! i was recently surprised to learn that 'lispworks' no longer charges per-runtime royalties
asciilifeform: (something for which that vendor was infamous. see naggum archive for some good flamewarz re: subject)
decimation: heh interesting
decimation: apparently it's been mooted to include this new HEVC standard into HTML5 - amazingly all of a sudden "flash" has been flooded with publicized exploits
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
decimation: it would be just like hollywood et al to conspire to 'move content' into a box they can milk
asciilifeform: eh, 'flash' was a steaming pile of shit from day 1
decimation: yeah but I've noticed an uptick in stories about it recently
decimation: as if this were some kind of secret
asciilifeform: decimation: actually i was mistaken. it was franz/allegro who charged royalties
asciilifeform: and not lispworks.
assbot: Franz Inc Commercial Licensing ... ( http://bit.ly/1LLma0Y )
decimation: I think they have a non-profit free version now?
asciilifeform does not use either of these products today
asciilifeform: decimation: they both had crippled versions for download
decimation: would you recommend franz over the cl with the menorah?
asciilifeform: clisp ?
asciilifeform: clisp is a mostly-standardcompliant implementation of the language - but very slow
asciilifeform: but is slow because of the very cross-platformy way in which it was written
asciilifeform: so on some exotic machines, it may be your only option.
asciilifeform: folks who bring in very tangible money from cl-related work, and want/need a serious support relationship, might benefit from franz or lispworks
asciilifeform: if you fall into this category, buy one of each, try.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64149 @ 0.00056911 = 36.5078 BTC [+] {4}
decimation: ah ty
asciilifeform: (if you fall into this category, you have already done this, you don't need to wait for some schmuck to tell you to)
decimation: unfortunately it seems that the "cl logs" are quite scattered and need to be reconstructed by a student (unlike b-a logs)
assbot: Re: LispWorks Pricing Information from Xanalys - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1DGa6HQ )
asciilifeform: decimation: the naggum archive is probably the closest thing there is to a '#b-a log of common lisp'
decimation: "Microsoft, the ruling king of mass marketed trinketware, are just surfing on the same tsunami that lifted Taiwan and Hong Kong from poverty into an inflated economy that just _had_ to crash down and wash out _enormous_ values some day.
asciilifeform: 'Personally, I think the whole business model of the software industry is rotten to the core. Microsoft is not even a contributory cause -- Bill Gates isn't smart enough to invent or create something like this. It used to be the norm that software was essentially free (gratis) and just vehicles to move hardware, which was tangible enough to make it easy for the anal-retentive beancounters to count and weigh and such, especial
asciilifeform: ly those in the government offices in charge of squeezing the juice of out the produce of society. I think the software crisis has been created by the tax laws and government officials who were unable to understand the value of the computer industry products. Since the Western business world is operating very closely in a trigger-response pattern relative to changes to the tax laws, the regulators are fully to blame for the
asciilifeform: inability of societies to value software properly, and hence the "protection" the software industry got in the Y2K scare, the ability to skirt warranty and every other consumer protection law, the non-constitutionality of the War on Software Piracy (which is much worse than the absolutely insane War on Drugs measured in results and costs and accepted loss of personal freedom), and numerous additional deep-rooted and pandemic c
asciilifeform: onsequences of bad (working to destroy) and sometimes evil (intended to destroy) policy and ignorant idiots with too much power. One of the consequences is that software development is paid for over the marketing budgets, like cheap plastic pens with logo imprints that work no longer than you remember where you got it and T-shirts of so low quality that they couldn't have been sold as clothes -- when you give some trinket awa
decimation: see: winblows 10 : microsoft trying to remain relevant
asciilifeform: y as a marketing gimmick, of course you don't want to warrant, support, or maintain it, and of course nobody would even dream of paying royalties for it, they can just get another cheap pen or T-shirt or shirnk-wrapped software package of the shelf somewhere else.'
decimation: heh yeah I was amused by the same paragraph, where naggum predicts the fall of micrsoft, that's more-or-less playing out now
asciilifeform: one of the hyenas fighting over the corpse (google et al), plus the still-living organs of the corpse, will become the new microshit.
asciilifeform: just as was the case after the fall of ibm.
decimation: of course, it's more than just a 'marketing gimmick', microsoft more-or-less requires all hardware to be painted with its binaries
asciilifeform: the coveted 'garden of eden' situation where ~there isn't a microshit~, when there is not a usg department-of-computing that has its tentacles in every orifice - won't be coming back until some quasi-mythical breakthrough decentralizes chip fabbing
asciilifeform: as it is, the industry is ~intrinsically~ usgtronic
asciilifeform: through sheer force of centralization.
decimation: yeah, if not this usg than another one
decimation: it's kinda like expecting the king to return to minting gold after pocketing it and giving you copper coins
asciilifeform: when king takes the gold, it is still there, somewhere
asciilifeform: could - theoretically - be seen again, one day
decimation: heh, true
decimation: if not in the king's hands than at least the hooker-n-blow dealers
decimation: but you make a point - the software industry (and usg in general) has mastered the art of wasting the productivity of its population
asciilifeform: the world of 1985, where there were a thousand ~state-of-the-art~ chip fabs, under two+ separate civilizational systems, and running perhaps a dozen ~entirely independently developed~ toolchains - isn't coming back
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/orthecreedence/cl-async << this reeks of "let's bring js to cl"
assbot: orthecreedence/cl-async · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1LLmYD9 )
asciilifeform: folks like to talk about 'printed' this and that, but the actual hard data on the ground are considerably more optimistic for classical problems like 'lead to gold', 'elixir of immortality', and 'energy too cheap to meter' than for desktop chip-fab.
ben_vulpes: re previous thread: "profits of 1% on revenues of 1 billion! we're rich!"
decimation: yarvin wrote about this pattern in the policy side of usg as the smartest bureaucrats exactly cancelling each other's efforts
ben_vulpes: rentiers are extracting all of the "productivity" gains.
asciilifeform: very easy to steal imaginary things
asciilifeform: (they don't weigh much, can be carried right through walls!)
decimation: it's even easier to steal 'having imaginary things been stolen from'
decimation: the vaguest precedent or bureaucratic ruling sews that business up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123050 @ 0.00057223 = 70.4129 BTC [+] {5}
decimation: "Each of their [the Western government's] decisions is an atom unto itself, made through an almost ritualized process by a large number of very intelligent, talented and ambitious people, whose abilities tend to cancel each other almost perfectly, leaving nothing but a chilling bureaucratic continuity."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113300 @ 0.00056924 = 64.4949 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: "In my research, I looked to see how old the idea was that medieval Christians believed the earth was flat....No one before the 1830s believed that medieval people thought that the earth was flat."
jurov: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no turdatron runs on linux. so far all the cases happened on client, i won't mind this further until you say "i have checked my outbox and it's not mutilated there"
ben_vulpes: lo, it is mutilated in my outbox
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58900 @ 0.00056592 = 33.3327 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/scan-build/ << not much of interest, but i thought that i'd share clang's opinion with derp anzers
assbot: src - scan-build results ... ( http://bit.ly/1S37sb4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.0005605 = 20.9627 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132040 @ 0.00055983 = 73.92 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24760 @ 0.00055961 = 13.8559 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82636 @ 0.00057019 = 47.1182 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212834 << you know it maybe bears repeating that nonsensical dire warnings are just as bad as no warnings at all.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 01:26:19; asciilifeform: or don't be surprised when it formats your hd
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212838 << when you're done distorting the economy you can start distorting the wave function.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 02:25:03; decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-07-2015#1212646 < this is a good point (taxation is always political). yet it does have economic consequences, and I would prefer to distort the economy toward favoring work and saving over consumption
mircea_popescu: we got a lot of work for a man of your talents o.O
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212840 << they are. the problem being of course that they also exhaust the potential of survival. because that is quite strictly what those suitors are : in their replacing of whoever, they also ensure the whole shebang can keep going.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 02:26:44; decimation: policies like income & capital gains tax can be seen as a method of exhausting potential suitors to power
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 02:55:08; trinque: motherfucker... I google this AWS issue I'm having, and find myself bitching about said problem here two months ago
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 03:43:45; hanbot: google: No results found for "gpg: fatal: zlib inflate problem: invalid literal/lengths set"
mircea_popescu has enjoyed the logs so far.
mircea_popescu: !rated hanbot
assbot: You rated user hanbot on 30-Mar-2014, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: The forum loves her a lot..
mircea_popescu: !rate hanbot 5 extremely productive manual tester
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/cb5d1688e63ad230
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.hanbot.5:5c7030a162ab2367b81a4db0d5ef459ecaca547660a6d5397053e0a4d1428875
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for hanbot from 5 to 5 with note: extremely productive manual tester
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155725 @ 0.00056193 = 87.5065 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up cypherc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117038 @ 0.00055082 = 64.4669 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 04:32:09; asciilifeform: seems like it inserts 0x0d before any 0x0a
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 04:45:09; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc this is standard sendmail behaviour
mircea_popescu: lol damn i should read three lines ahead.
mircea_popescu: !up Khayman
mircea_popescu: Making matters worse, HEVC Advance says their licensing terms [listed in detail here] are “retroactive to date of 1st sale”
mircea_popescu: bwahahahah WHAT
mircea_popescu: anyway, just more nails in the coffin of bullshiot "higher resolution".
mircea_popescu: nobody wants it, forget it. 720px wide forever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64939 @ 0.00053871 = 34.9833 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212997 << i vaguely remember people trying to hire someone to summarize all this. it.... never got anywhere.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 05:24:04; decimation: unfortunately it seems that the "cl logs" are quite scattered and need to be reconstructed by a student (unlike b-a logs)
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 05:29:00; asciilifeform: just as was the case after the fall of ibm.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213024 << this is unduly self-flattering. there WAS NO PRODUCTIVITY THERE TO WASTE. this is the ultimate reason. there's no secret conspiracy of illuminati aliens to steal the manna of earth.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 05:35:06; decimation: but you make a point - the software industry (and usg in general) has mastered the art of wasting the productivity of its population
mircea_popescu: the plain sad factual truth of the matter is, that there was no manna there to begin with.
mircea_popescu: which is why all the charade and all the dancing. and yes the various jews, selected goats, ibms m$ and usg will be beheaded for this fault "of theirs",
mircea_popescu: just as soon as we're done with the festivals dedicated to their dressing up as the sacrificial goat.
mircea_popescu: but even after their blood gurgles, the fact will stand. there was no productivity there from they one.
mircea_popescu: they're not wasting anything, they're just giving a bunch of fuctards the illusion that they actually belong here.
mircea_popescu: which is, and has been, and will forever remain the only function, the chief utility and the very point of abstractions. it allows men to survive their fears.
mircea_popescu: just like women gotta "be sluts" or else your paniced bipedal dog is too afraid of black holes to stick his wee wee into the right hole, just so microsoft must be there for a hundred milion autistic schmucks to be even able to get out of bed i nthe morning.
mircea_popescu: what do you think the "human batteries" would have done, were they not "in the matrix" ?
mircea_popescu: built one, right ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213025 << it never left, you know. it's still here. if you're willing to take z80 as "state of the art", the whole shebang is still here. problem is you want a different state of the art, because we actually need it, because z80 mined bitcoin can't survive in the field. and so...
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 05:35:30; asciilifeform: the world of 1985, where there were a thousand ~state-of-the-art~ chip fabs, under two+ separate civilizational systems, and running perhaps a dozen ~entirely independently developed~ toolchains - isn't coming back
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213040 < heh. this is true. the medieval contention was as to the place of earth, not as to its shape. "urbi et orbi", ie, the classical papal dedication, specifically speaks TO THE GLOBE. as a sphere.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 07:58:50; jurov: "In my research, I looked to see how old the idea was that medieval Christians believed the earth was flat....No one before the 1830s believed that medieval people thought that the earth was flat."
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 08:04:10; ben_vulpes: lo, it is mutilated in my outbox
mircea_popescu: " If we apply an interpreter of British understatements and general vagueness in preference to precision, however, I get the impression you're trying very hard to have an opinion about another company, which _does_ have royalties as part of their business model and that you are trying to invalidate that model by implication."
mircea_popescu: for the record, the notion that some twerps may charge "per runtime" is such corrosive nonsense i have no fucking idea who or why would ever defend it.
mircea_popescu: if i buy a knife, I OWN THE KNIFE. and whether i use it fifty times or three, whether i am the most frequent user of the knife or least, whether i make most money from its usage opr least, this is entirely my business.
mircea_popescu: knife maker dun enter into it.
mircea_popescu: trhis is not even a moral issue, or some sort of bullshiot about rights. this is the nudest, rudest self preservation at work. if you wish to force (and by allowing, you force) the knife maker to have opinions of knife usage, you have created the worst sort of socialist centrally commanded economy possible.
mircea_popescu: all that remains is one single entity which starts with the grassy knoll and ends with the satellite, and you will never EVER be able to make this wholly integrated pile of nonsense compete on any sort of footing with actual capitalism
mircea_popescu: the reason being, obviously, the eternal problem of unforeseen utility.
mircea_popescu: i personally knew my father was a retard when i was about thirteen, and he threw a fit insisting i "stop using tools for other purposes than they were made".
mircea_popescu: better exam of idiocy could scarcely be had. and so here we are. no "conditional royalties", no "apple store", no "charge for runtime" and none of that jazz. not because it's wrong, or evil. because it's stupid, and because it enacts an unsustainable model.
mircea_popescu: i don't wanna die in the stupidboat.
mircea_popescu: (and yes this is why tort laws are building socialism. "we sell you the coffee - if you kill yourself with it that's your problem" is the correct position, and what the courts should, and what the b,tmsr~ courts do enforce)
solrodar: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213044 << if you've managed to get clang to work, are you able to check my script?
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 08:11:58; ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/scan-build/ << not much of interest, but i thought that i'd share clang's opinion with derp anzers
mircea_popescu apologizes to solrodar for this taking so damned long.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think the proper thing to do here is pay out.
mircea_popescu: solrodar address ?
solrodar: mircea_popescu: I don't want to pester the developers to deal with something they're not really interested in
mircea_popescu: that's ok, i
mircea_popescu: 'll pester them.,
mircea_popescu: specifgically i will put asciilifeform, ben_vulpes and everyone else on notice to the following fact : if you don't effectually and effectively take delivery of these sorts of things, it's not that my 1 btc or w/e is wasted. it's thjat the remainder of my stash is wasted, because lo! i can not use it to direct activity. help me help you over here wouldja.
solrodar: mircea_popescu: thank you
mircea_popescu: soo, addy ?
solrodar: 1P1oJaEySqBCXcuyVVgKSyLYF7u2zKXzhW
mircea_popescu: b6f7f5ce3ab9bddf0bf5c32ec4b01d7ac5a590396ff87ae0a846975cd5303458 solrodar. thanks for your help!
mircea_popescu: !rate solrodar 1 callgraphing work
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/16ae239106cd0a66
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.solrodar.1:3745ab57e08eae963b7be27ddddf5bff092c528e3a67dc4da4239834813156ae
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for solrodar with note: callgraphing work
solrodar: !rate mircea_popescu 1 accepted call graph work
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/39f8a36792bec780
solrodar: !rate asciilifeform 1 accepted call graph work
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/4d7042fbd744c384
mircea_popescu: actually looking at the ratings i would guess this was actually accepted and i just didn't get the memo. all the better.
solrodar: asciilifeform didn't like the graph layout but was willing to accept it as long as I released details of how it was produced
solrodar: but then he wasn't able/willing to test it himself
mircea_popescu: "Instead of being a guarantor of stability and long-term safety that each of us cannot build or even maintain on our own, policies in the information technology industries have turned into guarantors of instability and short-term profiteering, effectively betting the future on the fun we can have today, a massive lottery where everybody loses, especially the guy who wins $25 million and discovers that everybody else ha
mircea_popescu: s to _continue_ to play (read: lose money to) the lottery for him to get monthly installments." ahaha check it out, naggum gets infinitesimaly close to comprehending the nature of the bezzle.
solrodar: so I ended up two degrees of separation away from the person paying me :P
assbot: Logged on 24-07-2015 18:13:48; mircea_popescu: so now owner of palantir goes out and buys himself fiddy million twenty dollar hookers, amirite.
mircea_popescu: solrodar this is how bureaucracies are born.
solrodar: !v assbot:solrodar.rate.mircea_popescu.1:24d08c2cc7479bebd8d5e585a0d284305faa1da8102b5954bc38dcb6ac186f50
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mircea_popescu with note: accepted call graph work
solrodar: !v assbot:solrodar.rate.asciilifeform.1:d36a041a380ad87f0b2260df1326ad3c6b92f187ad1ba29118587390d6d22fc2
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for asciilifeform with note: accepted call graph work
mircea_popescu: "The software industry has turned into a pyramid game because the government valuation strategies for software have penalized longevity. It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with the so-called "rapid pace" of the technological development. It isn't rapid and I'll dispute a claim of general development, too. It's all about marketing old ideas in new and ever more shiny wrappings, and nobody does that better than Microso
mircea_popescu: ft today. Their "innovation" is _purely_ restricted to more shiny wrappings, because that is where the money is in today's market." << ahaha yeah! check it out...
mircea_popescu: why is it that the greatest republic in history uses "antiquated" software from 1990 as in the case of gpg, why are we on irc, etc etc ? because rapid pace of what ?
mircea_popescu: if the past two decades of rapidpace never happened, we'd be in a much better position, not having to waste time trying to figure out how the fuck to even get static binaries made anymore.
mircea_popescu: man has a point. there has been NO inovation worth the mention, and no "HDTV" and stupid ass bootstrap don't count.
mircea_popescu: !up stoon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10846 @ 0.00055103 = 5.9765 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129004 @ 0.00055137 = 71.1289 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104304 @ 0.00054333 = 56.6715 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.00053535 = 54.7663 BTC [-]
shinohai: ;;later tell asciilifeform off to buy tea if these are the proper instructions: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] Presenting... Build your own Pogotron. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LLJdca )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16550 @ 0.00053535 = 8.86 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127256 @ 0.00053512 = 68.0972 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Running TSS/8 on the DEC PiDP-8/i and SIMH - Raymii.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3Z3UW )
chetty: pdp 8, wow blast from the past
mats: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 10 minutes and 13 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61000 @ 0.00053737 = 32.7796 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.0005609 = 17.9488 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62800 @ 0.00055288 = 34.7209 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 12:53:23; shinohai: ;;later tell asciilifeform off to buy tea if these are the proper instructions: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213165 << ugh, 'raspberry'. betcha it can't keep up with an actual pdp8 ~in real time in all cases~
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213050 << nonsensical? beg to differ. or do i have to post a binary with priv elevation that actually ~does~ format hdd, to prove this point
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 09:35:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212834 << you know it maybe bears repeating that nonsensical dire warnings are just as bad as no warnings at all.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213080 << ever been to a movie theatre ? was it 720 px wide ?
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 09:59:19; mircea_popescu: nobody wants it, forget it. 720px wide forever.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213082 << did the summarizer of #b-a logs go anywhere ?
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:15:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212997 << i vaguely remember people trying to hire someone to summarize all this. it.... never got anywhere.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213084 << what little is left of the ~actual~ ibm products gives me a kind of 'retro', nostalgic vibe. because - pre-microshit.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:30:29; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213012 << the ibm-ibm of today is so lulzy tho
asciilifeform: to the point that i'd much rather program for, e.g., s/390, than for pc.
asciilifeform: but - that meatwot is locked up nice&tight.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:31:47; mircea_popescu: the plain sad factual truth of the matter is, that there was no manna there to begin with.
asciilifeform has always found the use of the word 'productivity' standing alone to be batshit - productivity ~at what~ ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213098 << in point of fact, it is ~not~ still there. for the same reason that we no longer have the horse supply and maintenance system circa 1880.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:38:43; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213025 << it never left, you know. it's still here. if you're willing to take z80 as "state of the art", the whole shebang is still here. problem is you want a different state of the art, because we actually need it, because z80 mined bitcoin can't survive in the field. and so...
mircea_popescu: nah, it didn't go anywhere
asciilifeform: those factories are not there. and there is no economic mechanism for building them again.
mircea_popescu: and the only reason i'd go to a movie theatre is to get a public blowjob.
mircea_popescu: or i suppose for the same reason i'd visit a viking boat.
shinohai: I haven't been to theatre in forever, but I do plan on going to see Hateful Eight.
mircea_popescu: get a bj.
shinohai: Ok, QT and a BJ
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meant "still there" in a more abstract sense. yes there's not currently hay supplies and horse barns. but if need be - they can be.
mircea_popescu: this is very much unlike the situation of say, damascus steel
mircea_popescu: that IS actually lost.
assbot: Damascus Steel ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2LRFG )
shinohai: trilema is down? T_T
mircea_popescu: weekend warriors at work
shinohai: Because DDOS is the greatest tool of todays breed of 1337 haxx0rs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it'll be back eventually you can read it then
mircea_popescu: can hit refresh in the meanwhile or do something else :D
shinohai: I'm actually following asciilifeform 's excellent tea advice today while doing pogo research. On my second pot already.
shinohai: God bless samovars.
mircea_popescu: we're out of samovars ;/
shinohai: I inherited one from my grandmother, wouldn't take a bzillion dollars for it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00055288 = 14.3196 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213201 << aaactually... just about every time someone tried to restart production of a long-dead tech, it turns out to have substantial elements of 'damascus' in it
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 15:46:22; mircea_popescu: this is very much unlike the situation of say, damascus steel
asciilifeform: in that many of the crucial details died with the folks who set up the lines
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.00053484 = 35.1925 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76270 @ 0.00055153 = 42.0652 BTC [+]
assbot: Porn Star Creates Darth Vader Out Of Sex Toys, Obviously ... ( http://bit.ly/1gdLGRi )
assbot: Nassim Nicholas Taleb interview | Tomorrow 2015 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1gdNpGi )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12080 @ 0.00053476 = 6.4599 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92770 @ 0.00053273 = 49.4214 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: "Barack Obama told Kenyans on his first presidential trip to his father's homeland that there was "no limit to what you can achieve" but said they had to deepen democracy, tackle corruption and end exclusion based on gender or ethnicity." << lulz.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213050 << not gunna lie. alf's skull and crossbones routine has actively deterred me from tinkering with 0.5.x releases. i'm probably not alone in waiting for the 'official perfect release' either.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 09:35:50; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1212834 << you know it maybe bears repeating that nonsensical dire warnings are just as bad as no warnings at all.
pete_dushenski: so fuck it, ima play with it today !
asciilifeform: play, but treat with respect, like a loaded pistol
asciilifeform: that is what the skull is intended to say.
pete_dushenski: that may be your intention, but that's not necessarily what comes across
pete_dushenski: mebbe tis just my limited experience with poisons.
asciilifeform: we all keep poisons in household
pete_dushenski: and of course, the dose makes the poison
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: and some of our household poisons are ingested intentionally and measuredly
pete_dushenski: others, how much is ok ?
pete_dushenski: long-term exposure tough to test empirically
shinohai: Every build I have tried so far has been smooth *except* for the pogo, pirate warnings be damned.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: Contravex got Circle of Life stuck in my head.
pete_dushenski: bahaha nice.
asciilifeform: shinohai: skull is not about 'rough build'
asciilifeform: poison mushrooms taste great.
jurov wonders what warning/pictogram would alf put to a code actually controlling a thermonuclear device
asciilifeform: a 'smiley.'
pete_dushenski: 'thumbs up'
pete_dushenski: something you'd see on the side of a pepsi can
jurov: beckham?
jurov: lol first time i saw that. they prolly knew it's not suitable in this corner of world
pete_dushenski: it's all over billboards here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100400 @ 0.00053617 = 53.8315 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: lol @ smiley on the nuke button
jurov: here they just slapped on various football (read: soccer) players and shakira
trinque: how hip and relevant of them
pete_dushenski: i honestly thought it was just a response to coke's bizarrely succesful 'names' campaign
jurov: dunno, maybe shakira would be suitable pictogram for nuclear device too
pete_dushenski: i didn't get the 'emoji' tie-in till i just tried searching for images a minute ago.
pete_dushenski: seems ddg does the same stupid link stealing that goog does...
trinque: gotta snag those outbound clicks
trinque: I bothered to take the first myers-briggs test on your penultimate post
trinque: got ISTP this time, whereas in the past INTP
trinque: was interesting, I hadn't read that profile before, and it seemed to fit rather well
pete_dushenski: hey cool.
mircea_popescu: she does have a great ass.
assbot: Electric Eel: Digital Condom Prototype - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2WHvr )
trinque: the difference seemed to address a need I have for picking the damn thing up, breaking it, so on, to understand fully
mircea_popescu: speaking of condoms... for many years, i was using imported magnums. broke like...i dunno, twenty over a decade ? easily 1%.
mircea_popescu: for the past year or so, using local stuff. never broke one. went through 2-300 by now.
mircea_popescu: us products suck omfg.
pete_dushenski: i dun think i ever broke more than one magnum in all my years.
pete_dushenski: mebbe 2 ?
asciilifeform happened to read log bottom-up, and did not immediately realize that the 'magnum' was a condom...
trinque: lol
trinque: I find the damn things extremely annoying
shinohai: iirc, weren't condoms formerly made of sheep intestines?
trinque: but maybe this is due to inferior american condom stock
pete_dushenski: shinohai: wasn't that haggis ?
assbot: Lambskin Condoms FAQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2X3C8 )
shinohai: ewww, haggis
asciilifeform: hey it was the original item.
asciilifeform: sausage casing.
asciilifeform: (phun phakt: until well into 20th c, they were re-usable)
mircea_popescu: so were women
asciilifeform: l0l wat
shinohai: Well, guess I'll just rinse this out and stretch it over the end of the broom to dry ....
trinque: http://lambskincondoms.org/#seven << could get all kinds of condoms outta this guy
assbot: Lambskin Condoms FAQ ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2X7SF )
pete_dushenski: "we've forgotten how two women from California ran a firm that pioneered influential practices such as attention to product aesthetics, vertical integration (Vector has its own in-house software developers), and establishing training networks, providing packaged PC solutions, and treating employees like an extended family. Some of what Vector pioneered is now intertwined into the tech industry's DNA. Thanks to V
pete_dushenski: ector, the origins of the personal computer cannot be separated from the story of women in technology. The personal computer has always belonged to all of us." << speaking of women.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, anyone ever orange/lemon/etc juice on condom ?
mircea_popescu: if anyone did the entire "aesthetics" bs it was jobs
shinohai: I haven't. Does the acid do something unique?
mircea_popescu: never heard of this "Vector" thing
mircea_popescu: shinohai yeah, it ruins the polymer, you end up with a milky white, brittle thing
asciilifeform: what is the point of this
assbot: How Two Bored 1970s Housewives Helped Create The PC Industry | Fast Company | Business + Innovation ... ( http://bit.ly/1I2Xpsw )
trinque: every shartup in the valley has someone who thinks he's jobs
shinohai: *shartup*
pete_dushenski: bit o' revisionist history for the logs readers.
mircea_popescu: "how X did Y that they never actually did but hey, marketing!"
mircea_popescu: "how obama made sense in english" "how putin doesn't understand how the world works" "how a bored housewife discovered the secret barbers hate"
trinque: looking at where it ended up, I don't really have that much respect for Jobs
trinque: worlds most profitable toy company
trinque: his notable qualities were what, having an eye for art and being "mean"?
mircea_popescu: don't knock "being mean". it alone is enough to succeed in twerpland.
trinque: sort of what I meant by it
trinque: low bar
trinque: imagine if he'd been mean and understood a computer at the same time
mircea_popescu: imagine if your pet chicken spoke klingon
trinque: lol
trinque: can't have both?
trinque: come on, lets get asciilifeform a turtleneck
mircea_popescu: or pancreatic cancer
asciilifeform: laugh, but how many would fellate jobs if he were alive
asciilifeform: his shrivelled corpse is the real superstar - like evita's
chetty: how many dont even care if he is alive or not?
jurov: maybe he secretly let deep froze himself
trinque: I think he saw a computer as an appliance
trinque: wanted to make sure the buttons on the thing were designed just so
trinque: the utter lack of programmability (automator? lol, fuck off) shows they did not even consider how a thinking person would use the thing
trinque: as an appliance, the thing should obviously have one button labeled "cook", and no thought required from there
trinque: so here I am in 2015 with stumpwm stapled to emacs, blood leaking from the field sutures
asciilifeform: 'no one has ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the american public' (tm) (r)
jurov: if only two nerds could agree on best tools and practices...imo other professions have much less fragmentation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102050 @ 0.00054589 = 55.7081 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: jurov: need an environment where the nerd can develop his own tools/practices
trinque: hooks... on goddamn everything
jurov: really, reinvent everything?
trinque: not everything; the layer commonly referred to as the user interface should be a programming interface
trinque: nothing that hasn't been said and done before
assbot: Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I30CIN )
trinque: asciilifeform: indeed, you've said this well throughout
jurov: editor and user interface are actually only small part of toolset
trinque: this joke I'm working with currently is the shanty-house I cobbled together out of scrap metal
asciilifeform believes that the widespread preoccupation with 'customizable' has more to do with the abysmal state of the art than with anything else
trinque: jurov: an example, I have keybindings for various stages of various workflows
trinque: wrote a shitty tool called summon which can launch things, arrange them, switch between layouts, so on
trinque: I don't wanna arrange my goddamn tools each tie
trinque: *time
trinque: and I will never release summon, because it's a piece of shit
trinque: jurov: lets say I like this particular web site's regex tester, and I want that in a particular spot each time I am editing a regex in emacs
trinque: I want it gone when my cursor leaves, all that
trinque: I'm trumping up an example that demands composable behavior across several programs
trinque: from where I sit currently, I wouldn't even bother
trinque: far from impossible, yet cost is too damn high for me not to lose interest by the time I'm squirting JS at a browser from emacs
trinque: now sum that across my career... how many superior ways of working have I *not* developed because the time involved didn't feel worth it?
mircea_popescu: re that image, i notice i've mostly been using... nano
assbot: George R.R. Martin writes on DOS-based WordStar 4.0 software from the 1980s. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I32Vvc )
asciilifeform: folks who know better ~in their bones~, piss on winblowz. and on 'ubuntu.' etc
mircea_popescu: speaking of ubuntu,
mircea_popescu: am i correct in reading between the lines of hanbot's efforts that in point of fact someone carefully packaged a debian/ubuntu "equivalent" of the gcc package that allows static linking which in point of fact and quite pointedly DOES NOT allow static linking ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, static linking was Officially Deprecated
mircea_popescu: that is one thing
asciilifeform: (to the tune of rms senile snoring)
mircea_popescu: but making packages that purport to be equivalent and then miss parts seems a bit cosmic ray-y
mircea_popescu: not like they accidentally forgot to include nigger-super-systems
asciilifeform: in turdmeisterdom, for some years, 'missing deprecated pieces' ~= 'same'
mircea_popescu: or w/e nss stands for
wywialm: hi, I'm sure it has already been somehow settled - what is recommended instead of debian?
mircea_popescu: hardly settled
wywialm: I know you once recommended debian sarge. Would you recommend wheezy now?
mircea_popescu: i just said i used to use it. and nah. i'd still recomend sarge o.O
mircea_popescu: but really, the official ba os is still an open ended question
asciilifeform: not sure if b-a unix can be even in principle other than 'buildroot'.
asciilifeform: (or perhaps a bsd variant thereof)
trinque: openbsd dead yet? I just grew to like it, so I'm sure it must be
wywialm: I one got fascinated by asciilifeform's project inspired by OpenGenera - is it still active?
asciilifeform: i don't have a project inspired by opengenera
wywialm: once*
asciilifeform: nope, never
wywialm: perhaps I misunderstood you, but I read that you plan to design a sane os and (in other blog posts) pointed to opengenera as an example of such system
asciilifeform: it was an example of a variety of ~sane behaviours in an os~
asciilifeform: very different thing.
wywialm: ah, ok
asciilifeform: sorta like how a courageous man on a movie screen is not the same as actual hero
wywialm: is LoperOS project active then?
asciilifeform: wywialm: active in the sense that i'm not dead yet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66265 @ 0.00055396 = 36.7082 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30285 @ 0.00056112 = 16.9935 BTC [+]
trinque: in other news, I think the db project I've described was us inventing a shittier metaobject protocol in SQL
trinque: as it happens, I have those two books gabriel_laddel recommended on the way
trinque: I'm growing convinced that CLOS plus something intelligently mapping objects into and out of memory does everything I've ever called "database"
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213115 << mircea_popescu: solrodar got my message, knows where i am in derping along to testing his work.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:56:13; solrodar: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-07-2015#1213044 << if you've managed to get clang to work, are you able to check my script?
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 10:59:15; mircea_popescu: specifgically i will put asciilifeform, ben_vulpes and everyone else on notice to the following fact : if you don't effectually and effectively take delivery of these sorts of things, it's not that my 1 btc or w/e is wasted. it's thjat the remainder of my stash is wasted, because lo! i can not use it to direct activity. help me help you over here wouldja.
jurov: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00053273 / 0.00055366 / 0.00057333 (4868234 shares, 2,695.38 BTC), 7D: 0.00050102 / 0.00054492 / 0.00060248 (28347148 shares, 15,446.98 BTC), 30D: 0.00038622 / 0.00052683 / 0.00060248 (105094116 shares, 55,367.24 BTC)
assbot: How we turned JSON into a full programming language — relevant stories — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1LK9t8q )
trinque: and isn't this exactly what happens any time someone tries to make a "declarative" language
ben_vulpes: p-plz no trigger
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00055589 = 21.5407 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134850 @ 0.00055526 = 74.8768 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167640 @ 0.00055316 = 92.7317 BTC [-] {3}
mats: sweet bowtie
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 292.49, Best ask: 292.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 292.5, 24 hour volume: 9425.9633864, 24 hour low: 287.85, 24 hour high: 294.57, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49313 @ 0.00056727 = 27.9738 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121487 @ 0.00057014 = 69.2646 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147550 @ 0.00057271 = 84.5034 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158457 @ 0.00055631 = 88.1512 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: solrodar, asciilifeform: http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/ << the sexprs generate, the scripts run, the svg is nominally an svg (eg has piles of xml i don't care to sift through) but doesn't render anything through any tools I have on hand.
assbot: Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1gXRYVd )
ben_vulpes off romping puppy
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 19:11:55; trinque: I'm growing convinced that CLOS plus something intelligently mapping objects into and out of memory does everything I've ever called "database"
ben_vulpes: trinque: "but single host isn't web-scale!"
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: trinque: one *could* do some tests on manardb to see if this strategy it is speedy enough for the problems you've got
gabriel_laddel: I've a list of programmers included in the "info" tab of the program I wrote for work. The idea being that if I"m not around and something goes wrong, they contact one of these people. Let me know if you want to be on that list.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes:
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 02:55:08; trinque: motherfucker... I google this AWS issue I'm having, and find myself bitching about said problem here two months ago
assbot: The surprisingly sad saga of the Oregon State Library Girl ... ( http://bit.ly/1KsjEeG )
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: i can't resist asking - why would anybody want to be on that list for free ??
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 292.74, Best ask: 292.75, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 292.74, 24 hour volume: 9212.27838714, 24 hour low: 287.92, 24 hour high: 294.57, 24 hour vwap: None
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: potential CL work?
ben_vulpes: so long as they cough up ~.6 btc/hr, sure.
gabriel_laddel: nah, it's bezzle
ben_vulpes: or the bezzlequivalent. i ain't picky - food credits is food credits.
gabriel_laddel: kk, adding
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: you specifically or your dev shop?
ben_vulpes: "call this guy who knows thing about my codebase but probably can handle it"
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel has the authority to hire subcontractors just like this ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: wot
ben_vulpes: who are they to trust but him?
gabriel_laddel: I'm mentioning this because people say it's so goddamn hard to get CL work, which I have not found to be the case.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: i'd probably bite it off myself, simply because there isn't much by way of CL horsepower around the shop.
ben_vulpes: that said, give me six hours and i can figure out whatever's in flight and load it into someone else's head.
ben_vulpes: good way to minimize single points of failure.
asciilifeform is aware of folks who hire for 'we don't care what you write it in', but shudders at the thought of 'cl work' - it could only result from an astonishingly gnarly pre-existing codebase
ben_vulpes: it's the 'work' part you really object to, let's be honest here.
asciilifeform: no shit
ben_vulpes: cranks need turning, no avoiding that.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: did you see the libuv folks are colonizing cl?
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: yeah
ben_vulpes: "cl-async"
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: No one ever gets called to extend a program's feature-set? Nonsense.
asciilifeform: derps can 'colonize cl' in precisely the same way redditards colonize bitcoin.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I don't know anything aobut libuv and as such didn't comment.
ben_vulpes: simply smells of node to me.
asciilifeform: which is to say, from their point of view, they will always succeed.
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> cranks need turning, no avoiding that. << wtf is the point of a computer if not to avoid this ?
ben_vulpes: the "async" cl webserver the nodebros are banging on about blocks the repl when instantiated in a cl-async 'event loop', unlike how hunchentoot starts a server and then returns on threaded sbcl.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: well the cranks that turn the cranks need to be written, and then the machine that turns the meta-cranks built.
asciilifeform: blocks repl, as in, runs single-threaded ?!
ben_vulpes: (as:with-event-loop (as:await (sleep 3))) will indeed block.
asciilifeform: what are they using for a runtime?! xlisp under msdos ?!!
ben_vulpes: i suspect that they're not using emacs, but rather doing the "compile, run" thing.
asciilifeform: even then
ben_vulpes shrugs
asciilifeform: wtf is the point?
ben_vulpes: looks like braindamage, smells like braindamage, can't say as i care to dig further into it when there are food credits to scrape up elsewhere and the scraping to automate.
asciilifeform wonders why these folks took cl from the shelf, rather than something more 'komyoonitiful'
ben_vulpes: heh like the "modern cl" thinger?
asciilifeform: any number of
asciilifeform: at any rate, there is a lesson: the difference between ending up like this in cl and in, e.g., python, is sorta like the difference between being covered in own shit in civilian life, vs. inside an oubliette
asciilifeform: in the latter cases, respectively, it is an expected thing.
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2015 22:16:44; ben_vulpes: the "async" cl webserver the nodebros are banging on about blocks the repl when instantiated in a cl-async 'event loop', unlike how hunchentoot starts a server and then returns on threaded sbcl.
gabriel_laddel: I can't wait for the inevitable blog post about how "CL isn't really all that good" and "the language has serious problems and a lack of tooling"
asciilifeform: iirc yegge already wrote that one
ben_vulpes really off with dog now
gabriel_laddel: Yep. Him and many others. One rubyist had a particularly entertaining one where he complained about Naggum (who had already passed) being "toxic for the community".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.00057318 = 28.4584 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: in precisely the same way as mircea_popescu 'is toxic' to the derpunity
ben_vulpes: (i happen to enjoy the amount of study that writing cl takes)
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: what, like trolling through CLHS?
ben_vulpes: and cltl2
gabriel_laddel: "... a magnificent job. I have never seen a language description that is more complete or more precise, yet each chapter is throughly enjoyable and subtly witty. The book is absolutely indispensable for all serious LISP students and users; its high quality is a major reason why Common LISP is *the* LISP of the future" - Patrick Henry Winston
gabriel_laddel: (from the back of cltl2)
shinohai: I don't see mp as "toxic", he merely destroys the illusions people have of themselves and leaves them standing with the truth of what they are.
gabriel_laddel: shinohai: in derpspeak, this is "toxic"
shinohai: Oh I know. Anything that measure up to the r/bitcoin status quo is automatically "trolling" or "toxic to the community".
shinohai: *doesn't
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Compare: Symbolics demo reel 1989 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4HXPJtym2Q ) to Pixar demo reel 1988 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__3aAOBWW60 ) and note Symbolics wasn't a graphics company.
assbot: SYMBOLICS GRAPHICS DIVISION DEMO REEL 1989 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KsmBMf )
assbot: Pixar Sales Demo Reel from 1988 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KsmBMj )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92654 @ 0.00057308 = 53.0982 BTC [-]
assbot: rwasa | 2 Ton Digital ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mvf9TU )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14592 @ 0.00054821 = 7.9995 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43176 @ 0.00055622 = 24.0154 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33877 @ 0.00053268 = 18.0456 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69157 @ 0.00053265 = 36.8365 BTC [-]
assbot: Code-Pointer Integrity - Dependable Systems Lab ... ( http://bit.ly/1JoxYpL )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89750 @ 0.00055012 = 49.3733 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127122 @ 0.00055012 = 69.9324 BTC [+]
assbot: That grumpy BSD guy: The OpenSSH Bug That Wasn't ... ( http://bit.ly/1VHWrLQ )
mircea_popescu: pam sucks eh ? mkay.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo btw, ever got eulora to run ?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel youtube decided to do some "upgrade" or other and as a result it no longer works. sorry.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall hearing that they were finally abolishing 'flash' there
mircea_popescu: i was not using flash.
BingoBoingo: Not yet. Now that I've got the right Crystal Space got to take the time to compile it. Still, Nvidia's CS toolkit doesn't exist on this platform so that should be fun to bang the head against until crystalspace 2.2 removes that dependency
mircea_popescu: i was using html5. which they never really supported because ads.
mircea_popescu: i guess they finally squeezed it out.
mircea_popescu: punkman does it actually do what it claims or does it merely claim stuff it does ?
mircea_popescu: so /me goes to investigate this kingdom of loathing mud thingee. wikipedia claims 150k players playing regularly. /me has never seen > 500 players logged in. /me is confused.
asciilifeform briefly flipped through the 'rwasa' published code, certain of finding that it links openssl, but - it told the truth; did not do so; has own rsa. can't say much else
asciilifeform: i could be mistaken. (because i also did not find where the hell it does it)
asciilifeform: unfortunately i do not at the moment have the time for a closer look, currently boiling in a cauldron of wurk
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> gabriel_laddel has the authority to hire subcontractors just like this ? << maybe would just like to have it.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> which is to say, from their point of view, they will always succeed. << ahaha apt.
mircea_popescu: "from its own point of view, a bug always conquers all boots."
mircea_popescu: 4. Just show me how it works, OK?
mircea_popescu: Not all capabilities of p0f can be showcased here, and as noted, this release candidate still has a relatively small database of fingerprints. That said, here's the most recent positive match p0f has for your IP:
mircea_popescu: *** Looks like p0f is down for maintenance, sorry. Check back later. ***
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83200 @ 0.00055012 = 45.77 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: TLS stuff is in that HeavyThing library
asciilifeform: punkman: it was the only published src iirc
punkman: mircea_popescu: looks credible, haven't tried it yet though
mircea_popescu: i dunno, to me it looks perfectly not credible, but then again i'm a toxic asshole.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: curious, what part of it sets off your sc4mz0r-detector
mircea_popescu: be that as it may, "this is a magical brothel where the girls extend ectoplasm cunts and satisfactorily reach your very soul. wanna see it in action ? sure, here : ***not working atm***".
asciilifeform: from here it looks like just another 'we did X but in asm!' projects
asciilifeform: used to be a fairly common thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the part where they make wildly improbable claims (ex : purely passive traffic fingerprinting mechanisms to identify the players behind any incidental TCP/IP communications (often as little as a single normal SYN) without interfering in any way.) but then mishmashingly backtrack on it (this release candidate still has a relatively small database of fingerprints) and so on
asciilifeform: wai wai
mircea_popescu: reads exactly like a sophomore paper to me
asciilifeform: wrong link
asciilifeform: i was describing the web server in asm item
punkman: mircea_popescu: oh I meant rwasa looks credible
mircea_popescu: i was describing the "especially in settings where NMap probes are blocked, too slow, unreliable" bs.
mircea_popescu: really, they beat nmap, check em out.
asciilifeform: as for that one, you could, conceivably, look at sequence numbers and learn when a severely broken tcp/ip stack is in use
asciilifeform: but this is '90 state of the art
mircea_popescu: but if you did that for any period of time you'd know better than to make the sort of promises htey make.
mircea_popescu: ie, you could just as well NOT be able to identify anything
asciilifeform: classic academitardation.
mircea_popescu: the other thing i have nfi idea.
mircea_popescu: i'm not advanced enough to have an opinion.
punkman: "For TCP/IP, the tool fingerprints the client-originating SYN packet and the first SYN+ACK response from the server, paying attention to factors such as the ordering of TCP options, the relation between maximum segment size and window size, the progression of TCP timestamps, and the state of about a dozen possible implementation quirks (e.g. non-zero values in "must be zero" fields)."
punkman: that looks interesting to me
mircea_popescu: it may well be interesting.
assbot: One in every 600 websites has .git exposed | Jamie's OC ... ( http://bit.ly/1JJ9raL )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70724 @ 0.00055183 = 39.0276 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21776 @ 0.0005552 = 12.09 BTC [+]
assbot: ‘No grounds for treason’ in Varoufakis suit, says lawyer | News | ekathimerini.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1JJa5oE )
mircea_popescu: put the state in danger of not sucking the eucock eugerly enough ?
mircea_popescu: clearly treason :D
mircea_popescu: so funny this shit. these derps are still sitting on that referendum vote right ?
punkman: Tsipras had to "interpret" it because question made no sense
assbot: Greece rocked by reports of secret plan to raid banks for drachma return | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1JJaNlU )
punkman: some flavor of provokatsiya
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! are those 'action' logs auto-generated ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and, does this go both ways? i.e. can one play 'eulora' as a text mud ?!
mircea_popescu: one should be able to, yes.
mircea_popescu: !s eulora emacs
assbot: 1 results for 'eulora emacs' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eulora+emacs
mircea_popescu: and no, they're me impromptu.
Adlai might be interested in making an emacs client
Adlai generally avoids gooey games
mircea_popescu: what's gooey ?
Adlai: a pun :)
mircea_popescu: anyway, diana_coman has been doing some work on making a client api, might be useful stepping stone.
mircea_popescu: prolly be released this week,
Adlai still busy elsewhere atm
mircea_popescu: afaik this would be the first ever case of a 3d mmorpg with a text client
mircea_popescu: considering vlc has had an ascii art rendering plugin for many years now, there's really no limit to how epic that client could end up
mircea_popescu: and jurov's working on an irc integration thingee, which i intend to upgrade to gossipd once that's done, and generally...
mircea_popescu: euloraos.
mats: does WoW count as a '3d mmorpg'? I've seen a few (unsanctioned) chat clients for it
asciilifeform: 'GPG for data at rest. TLS for data in motion. You can also use Guttman’s cryptlib, which has a sane API. Or Google Keyczar. They both have really simple interfaces, and they try to make it hard to do the wrong thing.' << l0l!!
phf: "wisdom"
mircea_popescu: mats chat client not really what this is tho. and besides, "unsanctioned"
asciilifeform: whizzdum
mircea_popescu: wtf is "Data at rest"
mircea_popescu: "clean rectum" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nsa phrase
mats: tapes?
asciilifeform: usg parlance for 'what you have to shove in the safe at the end of a shift'
mircea_popescu: curl: (35) error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure
asciilifeform: such as, yes, tapes.
mircea_popescu: can has off sane webhost kthx
mircea_popescu: wtf do ARTICLES need https for anyway
asciilifeform: ask cryptome
asciilifeform: i still fail to grasp.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform doesn't that technically put them in motion ?
mircea_popescu: or is this the side of the bureaucracy that's not a stickler for detail.
asciilifeform: take it up with herr goebbels or whoever is in charge of this claptrap
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, lightest blocks in ages
mircea_popescu: fucking children i swear. while there's hope to get the car, they absolutely need the car for continued existence and that school project.
assbot: This little kit has everything I need to run a full node. Ordered it on purse.io yesterday, got it today. Total $89.34 (saved 22%!) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1S5Qwkh )
mircea_popescu: once the noncargetting is settle, the existence continues somehow, no longer dependant on the cargetting.
mircea_popescu: lmao mmmkay.
mircea_popescu: so the pogos are what, 95% saved, never will be on reddit ?
asciilifeform: 'Which way is your vote going?' 'I'm in favor of bigger blocks. I guess that 128GB drive won't last me very long :)' << quoted for
asciilifeform: why would they be on reddit? after all, they aren't sold on pigfuck.io, and aren't particularly interested to mega-blox folk
mircea_popescu: and there's no saving of the "pay more for shit" sort.
mircea_popescu: "here's my rusted usb cable i'm so happy to have saved on"
asciilifeform: i saw that,
asciilifeform: and couldn't help but think of the soviet staples
asciilifeform: (supposedly, more than one nato agent outed by otherwise perfect forgeries of documents where stapes failed to rust)
mircea_popescu: because they made them out of antimony like sane people, not out of low steel like crazy people.
asciilifeform: stainless (Fe, Cr)
mats: I vaguely remember someone mentioning experimenting with pogo and hybrid hard drive
mats: was that you, jurov, and if so how did that go
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73146 @ 0.0005552 = 40.6107 BTC [+]
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