Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-06-11 | 2015-06-13 → ↓
copumpkin: in popescuity!
copumpkin: oh, he's gone
copumpkin: !down
copumpkin: !down copumpkin
asciilifeform: aaand...
asciilifeform: ^ non-'magic' !
assbot: how to adjust screen brightness in ubuntu 14.04? - Ask Ubuntu ... ( http://bit.ly/1HxPlna )
trinque: ben_vulpes: no joke, I echo into sys to change my brightness
assbot: Gorillaz- sweepstakes (feat. Mos Def and Hypnotic Brass essemble) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJxevw )
punkman: asciilifeform: ^ non-'magic' ! << oh did we run out of cosmic rays?
cazalla: hanbot, published, ty
scoopbot_revived: FBI Counterterrorism AD Michael Steinbach: "Prevent encryption above all else" http://qntra.net/2015/06/fbi-counterterrorism-ad-michael-steinbach-prevent-encryption-above-all-else/
shinohai: ASSet of the day? https://i.imgur.com/4fGaYju.jpg [nsfw, obviously]
cazalla: shinohai, he's 100 today and that heart shit is bullshit according to snopes
shinohai: I know, it is still funny.
shinohai: He's just naturally not going to release his grasp upon the empire
assbot: TTIP: what exactly is the ISDS mechanism for resolving investor disputes? ... ( http://bit.ly/1GC0694 )
mircea_popescu: an exercise in spurious stupidity ?
assbot: European Parliament TTIP vote cancelled ‘because of huge public pressure’ : EU Reporter ... ( http://bit.ly/1GC09Sl )
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1161721 <-- more like it saved his career, imho
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 02:32:16; asciilifeform: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_spectator/2011/02/an_unsung_hero_of_the_nuclear_age.html << as described here.
funkenstein_: and from that article a major explosion of oxymoron detector: "Israeli military ethicist"
mircea_popescu: what, by being israeli one's automatically unethical ? or above ethics ?
funkenstein_: israeli military
funkenstein_: heck military ethicist is bad enough
mircea_popescu: i don't see it.
funkenstein_ seeks for sexual analogy
mircea_popescu: you're not going to start with "life's the greatest good in and of itself" and "we're all equal so consequently no-one's life is worth less than the shine on your shoes" are you ?
funkenstein_: How about most experiences prostitutes monogamy discussion group
mircea_popescu: how about what ?
funkenstein_: How about top quadraplegic jugglers?
mircea_popescu: you know, neither of these map on the original at all, and amusingly enough neither of these carries what you want it to, either.
mircea_popescu: how about "most unwinged featherless flat nailed bipedals flight club"
funkenstein_: How about, bitcoin-assets windows ssl expert?
mircea_popescu: if people were meant to fly they'd have had wings and if quadriplegics were meant to juggle they'd have had arms.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure we have one
mircea_popescu: what exactly is your ethical objection to killing people, anyway ?
funkenstein_: none do as good as the original, lol still cracks me up
funkenstein_: none
funkenstein_: depends on the context
mircea_popescu: so then....
mircea_popescu: guy's job would be to context.
funkenstein_: but the organization in question is regarded as expert in driving ethics out of young recruits minds
mircea_popescu: whose ethics ?
funkenstein_: any
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "ethics".
funkenstein_: follow orders, don't think
mircea_popescu: regarded by whom ?
mircea_popescu: and moreover, since when is the young recruit a standard of measure ?
funkenstein_: actualy i agree with you on that no such thing as ethics.. but that's a longer discussion
funkenstein_: regarded by themselves, for example
mircea_popescu: next you're going to judge the fief by the state of the peasantry.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this, socialism ?
mircea_popescu: if the young recruits weren't imbeciles, one probably wouldn't have to drive the broken fragments of a dysfunctionally-superficial pseudo-ethics out of their dumb skulls.
funkenstein_: it made me lol because, hey, pick a side
mircea_popescu: but as it is, it impedes function.
mircea_popescu: and their bid is to redeem their human worthlesness through functionality
mircea_popescu: the point of every beta male since we were not yet descended.
funkenstein_: if you want merciless military, then go for it. but don't say "oh and here's our feelings discussion group"
mircea_popescu: that may well be what you're reading into it, rather than what they're saying.
mircea_popescu: lemme point out that the "feelings" idiots have no monopoly on ethics.
mircea_popescu: in fact, they have absolutely no connection to ethics.
mircea_popescu: if physics is mentioned do you automatically think of aluminum siding salesmen ?
funkenstein_: so Ethiks.. from the greek?
mircea_popescu: i imagine in this case from the hebrew.
assbot: Microrobotic tentacles with spiral bending capability based on shape-engineered elastomeric microtubes : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvI32z )
mircea_popescu: moreover, killing and mercilessness aren't in the automatic relationship here proposed. there is such a thing as mercy killing.
asciilifeform: there is also merciless sparing
mircea_popescu: so there is.
mircea_popescu: "VelocityViewServlet : Error processing a template for path '/vrender'
mircea_popescu: Invocation of method 'getSubjectsByDOI' in class npg.ncode.velocity.toolbox.OntologyTool threw exception java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded at /view/macros/global.macros.vm[line 1082, column 68]
mircea_popescu: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded"
mircea_popescu: aww, java lang outta memory ? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS B4
asciilifeform: l0ltr0n1c! what was mircea_popescu running ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly enough, mats link
mircea_popescu: b-a slashdotted nature.com
mats: oh nature
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform VELOCITYVIEW mind you!!1
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 14:20:45; mircea_popescu: and their bid is to redeem their human worthlesness through functionality
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly what the slavegirl says : i am nothing, use me for something so in that i may become someone.
asciilifeform: this sorta describes the condition one tries to beat soldiers into
mircea_popescu: mno. this describes the condition of the vast majority of males.
mircea_popescu: the beating is so they stop lying about it.
mircea_popescu: chiefly, to themselves.
mircea_popescu: that's what beating does, confronts the beta with the incontrovertible "if what i pretend were true and what i know to be true were not, how come i am then beaten ???"
mircea_popescu: "i should be doing the beating"
mircea_popescu: before it comes to actual beatings, plenty of excuses to be had from all quarters
mircea_popescu: usually in the form "my real self hasn't emerged yet, but once it does... it took karate!11 it'll show you!11"
mircea_popescu: POSSIBLE CLASSIFICATION IS TOP SECRET FROM: the SIDtoday Editor
funkenstein_: just because one has been beaten does not mean one is "someone"
mircea_popescu: "You'll see people in shorts, tee-shirts, flip-flops, black clothes."
mircea_popescu: ok these are retards.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ how did you read that in wha i said tho ?!
funkenstein_: i agree we all seek intelligent masters...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you were to learn that they dress the programmers in evening coats instead, would not also say 'retards' ?
funkenstein_: but the one doing the beating is sadly often the less intelligent one
mircea_popescu: so what, you propose the presence of an ethics officer pleads against the jdf's intelligence ?
funkenstein_: idf please
funkenstein_: jdf wtf???
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes dude, whenever magic is discussed in terms of the robes and hats i will say retards.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ aok
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ yes my whip is not the most intelligent part of the household. so what of it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understood, the robes were mentioned because 'see how unique is our directorate, we let the kidz dress in rags if they wish'
mircea_popescu: dja know how you train bulldogs ?
funkenstein_: hey, I'm here for a reason :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform always an excuse, sure. they only did it ironically, you say ? fine, fine.
nubbins`: so here's a lame article
assbot: When Fandom Goes Wrong: The Dark Tale of the 'Final Fantasy VII' House | VICE | United States ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvJgqM )
mircea_popescu: ("ironically" is this internet meme where the actor pretends his actions are stupid but he knows it, he merely engages because of reasons. his job, his audience, tptb etc)
nubbins`: tldr, some crazy lady rented a house and was a bit crazy
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ you sit them in the door and you slam the door into them. they WILL chew down the door, but also learn better.
nubbins`: feel free to skim the first few paragraphs to get a feel for the content
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've no idea why they did it beyond the obvious fact that the type of public employed there traditionally dresses in rags
mircea_popescu: there's a reason those doing the beating are the dumbest of hte lot. this does not invalidate the beating.
nubbins`: then, for the adult version of the same story, check this one out: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/paxton-s-version-police-interview-transcript-1.1271885
assbot: Paxton's version: police interview transcript - Calgary - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvJmP8 )
nubbins`: asciilifeform get a chance to peek at that message?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` so why even link vice then ?
mircea_popescu: this hot topic of the internet.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: yes. we have those here. boring, sop.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu the vice thing popped up today and reminded me of the paxton caser
nubbins`: *case
nubbins`: very long transcript but filled with actual crazy.
nubbins`: the torture victim's name and picture were originally published but have since had a publication ban, so it's now "the victim" and the pics are all blurred.
nubbins`: really strange
nubbins`: there's conjecture that this is all related to outstanding investigations into hell's angels
mircea_popescu: nubbins` im not gonna read 69 pages of this thing and the article doesn't make it too clear , i could see either side. got some selected quotes ?
mircea_popescu: of course "investigation into hell's angels" is very much a case of police fighting a feud.
nubbins`: hard to find good examples, the crazy is spread out
nubbins`: it's a 233 page interview
mircea_popescu: not a great sign
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the photos in the vice article look exactly like the ones i described in old thread - http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2015#996769
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 04:13:16; asciilifeform: i saw the insides of a few, when peeking around to rent a house last year
mircea_popescu: nubbins` how would you explain the state of a roommate's palate ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu depends on whether i tortured him or not?
mircea_popescu: suppose some ignorant twerps who think it's spelled palette asked you, about the cook dude
mircea_popescu: this is an established fact now ?
nubbins`: guy presented to ER weighing 80lbs down from 250, with his entire bottom lip missing
nubbins`: covered in welts and cuts, ears cauliflowered
nubbins`: brain damage
mircea_popescu: and you believe this is an impossibility re your cook roommate ?
nubbins`: cook roomie is gone :D
mircea_popescu: or do you believe you're in any case responsible ?
mircea_popescu: heh. i see, good for you.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i dare to suggest that the vice article is a work of fiction. and that the illustrations are of the author's own dwelling.
mircea_popescu: this is the standard interepretation whenever something appears in vice/slate/the rest of the shitsites.
mircea_popescu: the case being otherwise is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence
asciilifeform: this one has the stereotypical smell of just such a work.
mircea_popescu: on par with extraterrestrials opening a bronx pond shop
asciilifeform: the 'corners are rounded', so to speak.
nubbins`: asciilifeform half the kids i went to uni with had houses messier than that
nubbins`: "look at this ghastly photo of a couple things laid on an unmade bed"
nubbins`: ^ check last 2 photos in order
mircea_popescu: aha the det crippen guy knows his job
mircea_popescu: i am at this point judging by the implicit cues and my understanding/preconceived notions re a functional police force that they most likely got their man.
mircea_popescu: now whether you'd convict on thebasis of that mostlycomes down to whether you're republican or democrat.
assbot: Why the blocksize limit keeps Bitcoin free and decentralized - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvL4A5 )
assbot: Dustin Paxton's victim says brain damage kept him from fleeing - CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvL6YC )
nubbins`: googling "dustin paxton" brings pics of the victim, but i can't recommend you look at them
mircea_popescu: oh, we're squamish now /
nubbins`: fuck it then
nubbins`: click away :P
assbot: Dustin Paxton (the torturer) and Calgary's Jessica Rogers (the liar) now a coupl ... ( http://bit.ly/1L5eJTv )
mircea_popescu: maybe they could take up the cause of feminism in gaming or something
mircea_popescu: anyway, this gave me a chuckle :
mircea_popescu: “I'm glad that he was declared a dangerous offender, but that only takes one person off the street, and there are lots of Paxtons out there, so the laws have to be changed to keep the public safe,” she said.
mircea_popescu: “They’re safe from Paxton, but they’re not safe from people like Paxton.”
mircea_popescu: strange case of inversion from
mircea_popescu: William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
mircea_popescu: Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
mircea_popescu: William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
mircea_popescu: Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safe
mircea_popescu: ty's sake!
nubbins`: last one
mircea_popescu: ie... and once the public's safe from all the paxtons, who's to keep isis out of the usis ?
assbot: Gangsters Out Blog: Hells Angel murder witness badly tortured ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvMkTR )
mircea_popescu: is there a bdsm angle to all of this ?
mircea_popescu: bikers, (leather's missing), weird living arrangements ?
nubbins`: i've been reading about this case off and on for 4+ years and i still can't make any sense of it
nubbins`: dude did beat his roomie w/ dog leashes, extension cords, etc
nubbins`: is it still considered bdsm if only one party is into it? :D
mircea_popescu: by whom ?
mircea_popescu: by nature, yes. inasmuch as a party doesn't fight back, a welt's a welt and a smack's a smack you know ? whether you kloink your slave or your roomate over the head, whether they consented to it or not doesn't enter in the functions that return "isbraindamage" as aboolean.
nubbins`: i read once that the victim was actually brought around to various locations to be beaten by different people
mircea_popescu: i wonder why they're not chasing the bdsm angle.
mircea_popescu: you'd expect it from the press neh ?
mircea_popescu: is there some sort of canadian conspiraci ? are they afraid of that derpy canadian corp i bitchslapped thisspring ?
nubbins`: ehhh i think BDSM angle doesn't add any further drama
nubbins`: it's crazy enough as it is
mircea_popescu: itdoesn't add any further drama ? you have the quote above.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 14:54:10; mircea_popescu: “They’re safe from Paxton, but they’re not safe from people like Paxton.”
nubbins`: there was a push after this to add "torture" to the criminal code
nubbins`: as it stands, in canada, it's only torture if it's performed by a state
mircea_popescu: brennus and his part of ... booty :D
assbot: Customs officials at Mumbai airport seize gold worth Rs 1.99 cr from aircraft toilets | The Indian Express ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvNU84 )
nubbins`: 250kg gold since january :0
nubbins`: what are they doing, repatriating it to the usa? :D
mircea_popescu: lol, the indian state is desperate because minority holder in the country. indians are nuts with the stuff.
shinohai: Someone may have literally shit gold bricks.
mircea_popescu: but yes, they are, "storing" it where the germans did.
kakobrekla: hehe, gossipd still not done till 2115.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: you get my pm?
mircea_popescu: i'd bet on that...
thestringpuller: so garzik proposes a soft-fork, and the shills act more retarded than ever stating, "No. We need to hard fork the network and up the cap."
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla: lmao y'know that's a point i hadn't considered.
pete_dushenski: or mebbe 'gossipd' does exist in a century but the kids are calling it 'irc' for nostalgia's sake
pete_dushenski: and by 'the kids' i mean the lordship
pete_dushenski: in any event, promises to do this or that 'by the end of the century even though we won't have a country' is the 2nd lulziest shit all week
pete_dushenski: after david thorne, naturally
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1161667 << true story, i had the mazda version of the same car
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 01:41:21; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: these remind me of an ancient car i've always wanted to drive, 'ford probe'
pete_dushenski: ford and mazda co-developed the platform and each made their own body style atop it
pete_dushenski: many parts were shared to save costs
pete_dushenski: the digital dashboard included
pete_dushenski: my 1988 mazda mx-6 *had the digital dashboard*
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1161628 << '82 all day. i loved the lines of that car as a kid.
pete_dushenski: mebbe a 5-6 year old
pete_dushenski: 9-10 year-old me wanted a jeep tj for some reason
pete_dushenski: then computers came along and i didn't give a shit about cars until 2nd year university
pete_dushenski: after taking public transport for an hour each way to class when it was only a 10-minute drive, i started caring about cars pretty quickly
nubbins`: thestringpuller yep, got it
nubbins`: is this something you actually plan on doing, or is this another instance of me wasting a bunch of time generating a quote for something that won't happen?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: also, those vettes are a steal compared to the ones here http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/strathcona-county/corvette-collectors-edition/1071669781 << "from washington state"
assbot: Corvette Collectors Edition | classic cars | Strathcona County | Kijiji ... ( http://bit.ly/1f6VhIC )
pete_dushenski: that's an extreme example, but even 'non-collectors' c3 vettes are still $15-20k here
thestringpuller: nubbins`: depends on the cost.
funkenstein_: those are some nice wheelchairs
assbot: Don't listen to Edward Snowden's supporters – his leaks have been a gift to terrorists - Comment - Voices - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1f6VPOE )
pete_dushenski: "Snowden’s actions have also led to terrorist groups developing new encryption technology."
pete_dushenski: more like "Snowden’s actions have also led to terrorist groups to discard new encryption technology in favour of good ol' pgp. "
pete_dushenski: sorry, "new techmologee"
pete_dushenski: "In Britain, GCHQ’s ability to monitor crime gangs – including those involved in people trafficking and drugs – has been reduced by a quarter."
pete_dushenski: haha excellent.
danielpbarron: !up goregrind
jurov: !up AmbitionzAzARida
assbot: Space travel isn’t for you. There are no virgins there either. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1f6Y5FU )
pete_dushenski: aaaand i'm off to meatlandia ! laters !
nubbins`: thestringpuller summers are busy so if this is a real project, yes, otherwise no
jurov: howdy! having 'roos outbreak in south africa?
fluffypony: nah, that's for cazalla's benefit ;)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field listened, out of entomological interest, to a recording of interview with hearn. yes, him. among the expected idiocies, hearn confessed to an interest in 'remote attestation' and 'trusted computing' as 'promising' alternatives to normally functioning bitcoin...
trinque: jurov: I already see him in that thread
assbot: Logged on 11-05-2015 18:32:09; ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-05-2015#1128111 << ancient drm wankatron where lusers are somehow coerced into 'proving' that they run virginal winblows which will obey usg dictat
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 15:59:37; pete_dushenski: "In Britain, GCHQ’s ability to monitor crime gangs – including those involved in people trafficking and drugs – has been reduced by a quarter."
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 15:19:36; scoopbot_revived: Franz Joseph I, Angela Merkel, and 4638 C4CA take their vows. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/12/franz-joseph-i-angela-merkel-and-4638-c4ca-take-their-vows/
trinque: 2115? :(
trinque: gimme the 2040s at the latest
ascii_field: that wasn't even the lulziest thing
ascii_field: but the bureaucratic flavour of 'u.n. minutes'
ascii_field: i assume pete meant this as a spoof
assbot: Mad Scientist Builds A 40-Watt Laser Shotgun - Digg ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSJaKW )
jurov: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
trinque: jurov: that thing looks damned fun; needs more lasers and MOAR POWER though
ascii_field: eh scam
ascii_field: diode array laser isn't additive !
trinque: oh :(
ascii_field: (there is a reason coherent beans are more interesting than 'archimedes'-style collimated white light)
ben_vulpes: client is using heroku
ben_vulpes: heroku does not persist state
ben_vulpes: users want to upload images
ben_vulpes: solution?
trinque: an hero-ku
ben_vulpes: IMAGES INTO POSTGRES BINARY FIELD WOOO
ben_vulpes: an hero-kun!
jurov: ascii_field: you surely wouldn't want to be on receiving side of it, coherent or not
ascii_field: jurov: i'd pick it over nagant
jurov: ben_vulpes: redirect them to imgur?
ben_vulpes: i prefer to abuse mother postgres
ben_vulpes: loosen her up with these big old binaries
trinque: it'll totally work
nubbins`: ascii_field i think he used a lens to focus the discrete beams
nubbins`: that said, i was pretty unimpressed with the amount of time it took to light paper on fire
ascii_field: nubbins`: do you understand what 'coherence' means re: laser light ?
nubbins`: i could do better with a lens on a sunny day
nubbins`: ascii_field in general
ascii_field: nubbins`: not same as collimation.
jurov: he had fixed focus
ascii_field: it means that wave is in phase.
ascii_field: nothing whatsoever to do with focus
ben_vulpes: trinque: it *did* totally work
nubbins`: sure
jurov: might be interesting to reuse old camera with autofocus
nubbins`: i still think he used a lens to focus the beams 8)
assbot: WHAT IS COHERENCE? Lasers and coherent light ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSKCwW )
ascii_field: ^^^ mandatory
jurov: ascii_field: and is it really such a difference in practice?
jurov: energy gets trnasferred to target eithrt
jurov: *either
ascii_field: jurov: yes.
trinque: matter of constructive or destructive interference right?
ascii_field: jurov: sorta like the famous gedankenexperiment where chinese radio orders all citizens to get on stools and jump at the same time
trinque: hahaha
jurov: if you happen to end up with destructive coherence between two laser diodes, where the energy goes?
jurov: *intereference
assbot: Optics: Destructive interference - Where does the light go? - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QSLmlO )
nubbins`: same place it goes when two people jump into opposite ends of pool
jurov: okay. so i'd combine different wavelengths diodes then. still more easily to obtain here than nagant parts and ammo
ascii_field: jurov: seriously, easier ?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
jurov: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: jurov: what of liquid butane (as used in cig lighters) ? any boy can make a far more destructive cannon-style weapon with some plumbing, butane, and spark igniter (from lighter also)
jurov: it makes noise
ascii_field: or hell, in what country can one not make an arbalest ?
ascii_field: from materials in any skip ?
jurov: nagant ==== arbalest now?
ascii_field: at close range, i'd rather take nagant bullet than a bolt from arbalest (if decently constructed)
ascii_field: ir. so no one will be making 'sexy' films about these.
jurov: see the chunky power supply next to it? that's why
ascii_field: jurov: photo doesn't even include the water pumps and chiller
mod6: im attempting to apply the gcc patch we discussed the other night: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html
ascii_field: (serious co2 lasers also recirculate the actual co2, rather than keeping it in sealed pipe)
mod6: gentoo has an ability to allow you to do an overlay .. but holy crap. gentoo is such a nightmare.
ascii_field: gentoo is a nightmare but the non-gentoo world is an utter hell
jurov: so, in the end, combining x diodes even if not coherent needs less energy than one coherent tube.
mod6: and the documentation is so bad, it's not even accurate, and makes assumptions about the audience. smh.
ascii_field: i have no idea how anyone is able to get serious work done outside of gentoo
ascii_field: (or bsd)
nubbins`: osx ;p
nubbins` cackles, weeps
nubbins`: so i popped a brand-new piece of mesh this morning
nubbins`: let me find a pic
mod6: trinque says y, "to learn gentoo, you must have learned gentoo". which is the total truth. you can't just pick this thing up and figure it out.
mod6: you have to pick it up and then figure out all out. bzzzzt.
ascii_field: jurov: the best known way to combine power from multiple diode lasers is fiber. but this only works for certain wavelengths where fiber works well.
ascii_field: jurov: you can get a few dozen kW of this on, e.g., 'ebay'
ascii_field: aim like garden hose.
nubbins`: *brand* new. hadn't even been sullied with ink yet.
mod6: UGH
jurov: mod6 what? you want insanely configurable stuff that does not need figuring out? hah, pick one
mod6: i need to get back to winning here. been losing to gentoo for 6 weeks.
shinohai: I havent picked up gentoo yet :/
mod6: im still not sure why we're not taking a hard look at openbsd
mod6: after 6 weeks, all that I can conclude about gentoo is it's basically unuseable.
nubbins`: there was some discussion on this
nubbins`: iirc, *BSD is a completely other type of retarded.
jurov: O.o how unuseable?
nubbins`: gentoo was chosen, i believe, at the behest of alf
mod6: it's unuseable.
nubbins`: mod6 i compiled bitcoind on gentoo
nubbins`: and buildroot as well
mod6: i mean, i can't seem to get anywhere with anything without major time involved and serious pain.
nubbins`: there's no "perfect posix" with no insane gotchas
nubbins`: it just doesn't exist
nubbins` takes a break from corporate income tax forms
jurov: maybe it just refuses to fit your preconceptions
mod6: naw, i have no preconceptions about anything. im talking about using this thing.
mod6: and it sucks.
nubbins`: mod6 for god's sakes man, use specifics
jurov: i'm use it daily as my desktop. for years and yes, pls sepcifics
nubbins`: this is like telling the waiter your food tastes un-good
nubbins`: is it too salty or is there poop in it?
shinohai: evening assets https://i.imgur.com/yPNebWv.jpg [nsfw for some]
nubbins`: not sure why you shared that, but hi
ben_vulpes: in what world is that nsfw?
mod6: what i'm sayin is this: without expert knowledge of how to use gentoo, I can't do what needs to be done in a reasonable amount of time. everyting for me in there is arduous, painstaking.
nubbins`: the old world
nubbins`: mod6 an example, please
nubbins`: what can you not do
mod6: umm. everything.
nubbins`: HELP US HELP YOU
nubbins`: you can't get a bash prompt?
jurov: mod6 if what you are doing is compiling C binaries, then learning to solve gentoo problems is unavoidable part of it
nubbins`: can't get online?
jurov: and yes, what is *the* problem?
assbot: XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1HAmP4k )
mod6: <+nubbins`> you can't get a bash prompt? << for instance on my POS box that I bought for $129.00 an x86_64 core2duo, I can't even install the os. All i can do is boot the livecd, do the chroot stuff, and then end up at the grub> prompt upon reboot. when it comes to my instance in AWS, i've had better luck, but doing stuff for me is so time consuming. in this case, i need to get gcc recompiled with patches to see if we can get past this error we
mod6: could I just pull down gcc-4.8.4 itself and patch? sure. it'd be a lot easier.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162139 << gentoo is not an evening thing. it is a lifetime commitment.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:19:28; mod6: i mean, i can't seem to get anywhere with anything without major time involved and serious pain.
mod6: but im positive that i'd never get it configured correctly to use uclibc and whatever other configurations are required to even test this patch. even if I get the patch to work, how am I supposed to get this into such a state that someone else can repeat it?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mod6: luckally trinque has been holdig my hand on all of this.
mod6: but... *shrug*. w/e.
ascii_field: and i should point out that in my mind gentoo is defined by ~absences~ of crud, rather than specific attributes which are ~present~
jurov: end up at the grub> prompt upon reboot << for example this is you're 90% there, use the prompt to find the kernel and boot, then reconfigure grub from the running system
mod6 goes back to banging his head
jurov: what head banging there?
jurov: grub can be problematic in any distro
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162166 << poor schmuck, he oughta ask his handler at ft meade for more boxes
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:25:57; shinohai: http://xtnodes.com/ <<<LOLOLOL
kakobrekla: you dont need more boxes
ascii_field: mr hearnia does
trinque: their github readme tries to make it sound like it's not just about the block size
trinque: clear intent to frame the blocksize thing in the context of a bunch of other (bullshit) progress!
trinque: "DNS seed changes: bitseed.xf2.org is removed as it no longer works, and seeds from Addy Yeow and Mike Hearn are (re)added to increase seed diversity and redundancy." << LOL
fluffypony: [19:59:12] <Relos>I can hear mary antoinette saying: "let them eat cake"
fluffypony: omg nubbins`
fluffypony: Mary Antoinette sounds like a maid from the farmlands
ascii_field: l0ltr0n1c
assbot: No VAT on Bitcoin in Switzerland | Bitcoin Association Switzerland ... ( http://bit.ly/1f7b4r7 )
mircea_popescu: !up danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: !up tank100
assbot: [Bitcoin-development] Miners: You'll (very likely) need to upgrade your Bitcoin Core node soon to support BIP66 ... ( http://bit.ly/1QT1Daq )
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: punkman: 'need to' aha
mircea_popescu: herpitty-derp.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .95 * 1 + 2 - 2.8
gribble: 0.15
mircea_popescu: seems the red line's way off.
mircea_popescu: ah actually mebbe not.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is the thing trying to fix the signatures issue isn';t it ?
punkman: one of them at least
assbot: bips/bip-0066.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1QT2mbq )
mircea_popescu: there's no avoiding having to do something to limit the derpage openssl can import into bitcoin
assbot: Bitcoin Gets Second Wind As World's First Hair Wholesaler, AiryHair, Ditches Cash For Cryptocurrency With A Rap Video ... ( http://bit.ly/1QT2s2M )
mircea_popescu: also iirc valid sigs that are uncompliant can actually be fixed without resigining
mircea_popescu: punkman second wind eh ?mmmkay.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 19:35:05; mircea_popescu: there's no avoiding having to do something to limit the derpage openssl can import into bitcoin
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 15:38:37; nubbins`: is this something you actually plan on doing, or is this another instance of me wasting a bunch of time generating a quote for something that won't happen?
nubbins`: there's like $150 worth of concept sketches of you riding a horse and squinting at the sun around here somewhere
mircea_popescu: ahaha what was that all about ?
ascii_field: in unrelated observation, there exists (nor, afaik has ever existed) an eeprom burner with true linux support.
ascii_field: every time i have to burn (or even read) an eeprom i end up doing something retarded like this - http://loper-os.nfshost.com/wp-content/mwredux/romsucker_working.png
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162025 << poor gavin, everyone wants a piece of his ass now. the sad fate of the internet lolcow.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 17:28:47; jurov: https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/608953783008243712 << leaving this here for danielpbarron
nubbins`: mircea_popescu ask tsp i guess :D
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's not SO retarded.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is monumentally retarded to do whole day's work to read back an 8k rom.
ascii_field: 4k actually
ascii_field: (in that photo)
mircea_popescu: but you keeping the pinboard around neh ?
mircea_popescu: do it once have it forevar.
ascii_field: no because next time, different pinout
ascii_field: have to tear it out, pull out pen, paper...
ascii_field: rom burner is this thing where you don't have to. pull the part # from db and drop in the chip
ascii_field: (into 'zif' socket with mechanical lever, too, avoid bending the ancient pins
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 17:45:18; jurov: ascii_field: you surely wouldn't want to be on receiving side of it, coherent or not
mircea_popescu: ascii_field one for each pinout ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one for each pin pitch
mircea_popescu: lol get a lever pinboard!!1
ascii_field: (you can drop arbitrary dip into a dip-40 so long as it physically fits, and the microcontroller knows what to do)
ascii_field: nobody makes lever breadboards.
mircea_popescu: they should tho
ascii_field: breadboards are also terrible re: distortion.
ascii_field: the correct solution to the problem is physically shaped like the above photo.
jurov: mircea_popescu: as long as there are breathing/talking holes left...
decimation: yeah breadboards have large distributed impedance
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162078 << yes dude. the difference between cars going the same place and cars going at the same pace.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 17:52:04; jurov: ascii_field: and is it really such a difference in practice?
mircea_popescu: not even. "cars going the same place and cars being wheel to wheel on the road"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162094 << any boy that is allowed to be a photo-hipster can turn plain paper into nitrocellulose. that'll work better than butane.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 17:59:25; ascii_field: jurov: what of liquid butane (as used in cig lighters) ? any boy can make a far more destructive cannon-style weapon with some plumbing, butane, and spark igniter (from lighter also)
ascii_field: ^ did this
nubbins`: you also need a font with a # character
nubbins`: and a white drop shadow
ascii_field: but the butane example pertains to hypothetical boy with access only to 'typical u.s. household' garbage
shinohai: yes indeed. potato quality indeed.
mircea_popescu: shinohai you're jewish ?
shinohai: i have jewish family. im not religious myself in any traditional sense.
shinohai: but, i couldn't resist a play on the yeshiva theme.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes, we did this.
ascii_field: back in the free world.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162112 < ascii lots of 'serious folks' use redhat for this reason
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:06:34; ascii_field: i have no idea how anyone is able to get serious work done outside of gentoo
mircea_popescu: dear god the guy in there's unsafe.
mircea_popescu: seriously, placing your hand to block the upside clearance of the berzelius glass ?
decimation: as much as they derp on shit, they still do a decent job of delivering a platform that is a stable target
mircea_popescu: wtf, who does this
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
trinque: decimation: I probably understand more about redhat's stable target than your garden-variety redhat user because I've used gentoo for so long
decimation: trinque: trust me I've lived on gentoo for years
decimation: it forced me to learn why I don't want the latest of everything
ascii_field: i find all unixlikes but gentoo and freebsd to be quite unusable for daily work
trinque: yep, and also of what a linux system is actually composed
decimation: ascii_field: but you have admitted that you don't pull gentoo updates regularly
mircea_popescu: aww BingoBoingo why so short ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Draft, accidentipublished. Returned to draft bin
decimation: so youre 'gentoo' is really gentoo* where * denotes "hand selected all software"
mircea_popescu: you know, trilema has a 5 minute delay in the rss feed for this and similar reasons
ascii_field: anything else is a sewage pit
BingoBoingo: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << In other news two non-suck traffic days in a row
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1zsOj4H )
decimation: I do admit that when I've tried openbsd I've been impressed by the presence of actual documentation
trinque: also had a great introductory experience w/ obsd
decimation: I also admit that rhel7 is a clusterfuck
decimation: and redhat is going 'full vm'
trinque: decimation: doing the coreos thing with dual-roots or something?
decimation: well, it's more that redhat seems to focus nearly 100% on providing vm clients and hosts
decimation: that and j2ee bullshit
decimation: their focus on providing a reasonable experience for the console user is nearly nonexistent
decimation: !up asciilifeform
decimation: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: there is NO reason why eeprom programmer shouldn't just appear as usb mass storage on the pc end
ascii_field: http://www.sslug.dk/~chlor/prom << even in '02 this was obvious
decimation: ascii_field: why does it require specialized turdware then?
ascii_field: decimation: because the world is awash in turdmeisters
ascii_field: also in 1990s gigantic microcontrollers did not exist, and the complexity (db of possible chips, etc) had to live in software
ascii_field: on pc end
decimation: yeah, plus proprietary chip configurations
ascii_field: (what -doesn't- suck there ?)
decimation: it's kinda like modern cars having few user-servicable parts
decimation: apparently the 'demand' doesn't exist
decimation: or if it does, it has been quashed
decimation: "who needs to fix their own chips?"
ascii_field: 'who needs a logic analyzer that can talk to software people write themselves' ? (see yesterday's thread)
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:12:31; jurov: mod6 what? you want insanely configurable stuff that does not need figuring out? hah, pick one
decimation: ascii_field: yeah I read your bitching
jurov: you know of anything both insanely configurable and immediately intuitive?
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3Y9MJ0Z.txt )
trinque: bwahaha
ascii_field: decimation: it blows my mind that the market for sane engineering tools of even very basic varieties DOES NOT EXIST
mircea_popescu: do i get a prize ?
ascii_field: this is how you get the iranian centrifuges with winblows, etc
jurov: mod6: see there. kill yourself and you will get what you want.
mircea_popescu: well... kill someone, at any rate.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's really a socialism problem. the plebeian criterion "it works" has surpassed the aristocratic "it makes sense". this is supposedly... better. in fact it's merely cheaper,
decimation: ascii_field: yeah I have a friend who used to work at HP developing logic analyzers
mircea_popescu: in the limited sense of "cheaper" that means "more accessible to the plebs"
decimation: he saw the writing on the wall when the winblows mandate came around, decided to bail
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: thing is, we could get the $20k one here at $firm. but it will RUN XP
ascii_field: and so we don't.
decimation: to be clear, in the case of logic analyzers the main problem is that only fancy chip makers use them anymore
ascii_field: (yes, the high-end instruments ~actually run xp~)
mircea_popescu: soo... quantcast "upgraded" its site, now i can no longer see the graphs.
decimation: ascii_field: surely there are older HP models that run HP-UX?
ascii_field: decimation: older ones have no way of pushing bits to pc at channel speed !
decimation: then you might get to write some IEEE-488
decimation: no usually not
ascii_field: i need them at channel speed.
decimation: they have a shitty gpib
decimation: these days if you want to buy high speed logic, you buy a chip where someone else did everything for you
ascii_field: why the fuck would i pay for a machine with a 128kB buffer and 1G/s sample rate ?
decimation: so the market for logic analyzers has shrunk to chip makers
ascii_field: if it can't piss the bits out to pc at 1G/s
decimation: this is a problem with test equipment in general
decimation: very few support streaming data at reasonable rates
ascii_field: decimation: chip makers willing to use xp
decimation: absolutely they are
decimation: because they assign their indian h1b to test the chip
decimation: don't give a fuck what indian thinks
decimation: ascii_field: what about this: https://www.saleae.com/
assbot: The Logic Analyzer with Analog - Saleae ... ( http://bit.ly/1ThqI2R )
ascii_field: decimation: slow as fuck, and USED CLOSED DRIVER
decimation: heh yeah it is slow
decimation: what you expect for usb 2
ascii_field: so solves NEITHER
ascii_field: may as well be a winblows item like the 1,001 it competes with
decimation: the driver might be closed, but supposedly you can buy chinese knockoffs for cheap
ascii_field: aha already got one of those
assbot: White house: cannot confirm reports 14 million affected by hack| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1ThqQ2l )
ascii_field: utter garbage
trinque: hilarious
trinque: "cannot confirm"
trinque: I look forward to the day when somebody makes their way inside NSA systems and starts dumping data from there.
decimation: ascii_field: so you want high speed, streaming and no winblows?
decimation: I don't think that exists
decimation: what frequency do you need?
ascii_field: decimation: 500MHz+
decimation: streaming 500 megasamples/sec?
decimation: heh that would barely fit on a gigabit ethernet with overhead
ascii_field: it'd fit on pci-e handily
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anyway, pretty good, i see pretty much no article qntra published this month got less than 1k reads THIS MONTH. last months pushing 5-10 depending. it's not bad by any measure.
mircea_popescu: i doubt vice has that much readership, notwithstanding the count of clucking clickers clicking around.
ascii_field: decimation: and it is way below the write speed of my hdd, which is the real limit
decimation: ascii_field: does it need to go down to DC? You could use an 'ettus radio'
ascii_field: decimation: yes it needs to go to dc
ascii_field: wtf else is a logic analyzer
ascii_field: if i have a steady state, it needs to show - that.
ascii_field: if 100MHz square wave - then it.
ascii_field: otherwise it's a turd
decimation: most of those radios don't go down below 100 mhz
ascii_field: decimation: radio doesn't pick up arbitrary waveforms
ascii_field: it wants carriers, fsk, etc
ascii_field: a radio is not an oscilloscope !
decimation: sure is, if it goes down to DC
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2015#1001114 << couple of 500mhz devices listed there, I wouldn't hope for much though
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2015 07:05:04; punkman: ;;later tell mats saw this recently, might interest you http://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#Logic_analyzers
decimation: yeah it does do arbitrary waveforms
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: see there. kill yourself and you will get what you want. << ah, thanks for the tip.
jurov: not me, mircea
ascii_field: punkman: saw that, yes
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:13:31; mod6: i need to get back to winning here. been losing to gentoo for 6 weeks.
decimation: ascii_field: what about rhode & schwarz?
mircea_popescu: mod6 you seriously proposing marrying to openbsd ?
ascii_field: decimation: where is the mention of linux there ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162139 << fwiw this was my experience as well, but not sure whether this is because badly packaged or outright evil.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:19:28; mod6: i mean, i can't seem to get anywhere with anything without major time involved and serious pain.
decimation: I think they might use winblows too
decimation: I told their sales guy that was a dumb idea
ascii_field: decimation: so 100% as worthless as agilent et al
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 18:19:37; nubbins`: there's no "perfect posix" with no insane gotchas
trinque: mircea_popescu: built him a bootable image of gentoo in about an hour last weekend
decimation: they were trying to 'break into the market' with a different oscope
ascii_field: i see nothing 'different' about it
ascii_field: even has the asinine 'ask for quote'
ascii_field: so they can give usg own price, and you - another
trinque: it's just a matter of having the parts of a functioning linux install already in your head
trinque: the handbook they have is overly complex, and tries to include you in the decisionmaking
mircea_popescu: trinque i recall that part...
mod6: eh. i'm not sure yet. i'm getting to the point with this thing where i realize at least 1 thing: I don't have the technical experience in the context of gentoo to get us where we want to go in a timly fashion. My experience in gentoo has been for 6 weeks, never used it before that. Everything has been a struggle here, for me. Not that I can't do it all myself, but I feel like it's taking me waaay too long. Maybe I just had bad expectations as
decimation: ascii_field: http://www.effectivebits.net/2011/08/to-run-windows-or-not-to-run-windows.html < supposedly some tektronix scopes run linux
assbot: Effective Bits: To run Windows or not to run Windows - All About Oscilloscope Operating Systems ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTbL2T )
mircea_popescu: mod6 the problem is that most people don't have a lot of o-bsd experience. and i don't just mean most people here, but generally. hard to sell that thing as an "all purpose b-a basis of bases"
decimation: tektronix is #1 in oscopes, if they don't have something than probably nobody does
mod6: that's fair. gentoo might be the right move.
mircea_popescu: fwiw de raadt isn't even in here.
ascii_field: decimation: as far as i can tell, they do not offer a logic analyzer with sane pc link
decimation: yeah possibly not
decimation: that's probably a 'premium feature'
ascii_field: not for 100, not for 100,000
ascii_field: not for $maxint.
ascii_field: motherfuckers i just want a piece of silicon that samples 16 lines at 1G/s and clocks out the bits to pci-e lanes.
ascii_field: talking about perhaps 1,000 transistors here.
ascii_field: and nobody wants to sell this.
ascii_field: for any amount.
decimation: well, possibly because they are afraid someone will 'cut them out' of the user interface
decimation: then all they have to sell is some analog electronics attached to a digitizer
ascii_field: or will 'have problems'
ascii_field: and factory mysteriously burns
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so the 1k transistors package can be future s.nsaproduct. time to move on eh ?
decimation: actually it's not so much that
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i need it here and now.
decimation: I suspect it might run into 'itar' rules too
decimation: so 'no export for you'
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: and anyone pursuing sanity today, needs it.
mircea_popescu hands ascii_field a roll of duct tape and taped old tv shows
ascii_field: probably ought to explain. see all of those instruments that were never reverse-engineered adequately ?
ascii_field: it was from a lack of precisely this simple tool.
mircea_popescu: figures.
ascii_field: (and, often, the muscles)
ascii_field: but must have ~both~
mircea_popescu: looky, there's no argument here, i can follow what you're saying. this thing is not hard to make, is a requisite, should exist but does not. definitely it's a niche.
mircea_popescu: this has been established.
mircea_popescu: i like it when people doing digital bullshit speak of "bespoke". yeah, totally, it means something OTHER than "we want to be paid 10x what our shit's worth on the open market for no other reason than we feel so special and we got a bookmarked link to a thesaurus website"
ascii_field: most likely don't even own a thesaurus, but simply read neal stephenson's novel 'diamond age.'
mircea_popescu: besuckmycocke
decimation: there is no 'bespoke' in electronics
mircea_popescu: ya think ?
decimation: everything is made en-mass in chip fabs
decimation: if the indian tester fucked up the chip for your application, sucks for you
mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, how does one check cardanos without an oscilloscope ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the digital half is easier, given as most of the action takes place on the micro
ascii_field: the rng -must- be checked with scope
ascii_field: but, fortunately, it is a low-speed device
mircea_popescu: my question to you is, why must it be checked at higher frequency than what we use.
mircea_popescu: we don't poll it 500mhz
mircea_popescu: not even close.
ascii_field: because nyquist
mircea_popescu: even so.
ascii_field: but in this story i was not speaking of cardano
mircea_popescu: there's a math approach to select good multiples.
mircea_popescu: do half, one and a half, three, whatever's normally done.
ascii_field: one sometimes wishes to capture fast signals, e.g., pci bus.
ascii_field: in pursuit of sanity.
mod6: <+trinque> mircea_popescu: built him a bootable image of gentoo in about an hour last weekend << yup, this is true. and I haven't been able to try it out yet. i'm planning on trying out the steps that he deed'd tomorrow. the image is great, but the goal is to get to a working set of instructions that allow a person to construct gentoo in our preferred way. so even if the image works, im not sure this is something to be used for anything else. he
ascii_field: mod6: ...working set of instructions that allow a person to construct gentoo in our preferred way << i suspect that this is a nonstarter on account of the unavailability of sane hardware. see the thread where mircea_popescu installed gentoo and then threw it off a cliff
trinque: ascii_field: stageN -> genkernel -> grub2-install -> grub2-mkconfig ??
mod6: well, im afraid of that too. so what to do then? i hope I haven't just been wasting my time then.
trinque: works for me every time
ascii_field: what this means, in practice, is that a reasonable ( i won't say 'sane' because these do not exist presently ) computer system is not a machine, but a ~place~ - like a church organ
ascii_field: the man who built it, is also part of it
ascii_field: and ~perhaps~ he can build another, if asked nicely
ascii_field: and compensated
ascii_field: but notice there is no how-to book, 'build church organ in 21 days'
ascii_field: perhaps particle accelerator is better analogy
decimation: ascii it is quite possible that oscopes with this kind of capability are considered itar controlled
ascii_field: decimation: the fuck'd i care, i'm in usa
ascii_field: ought to be able to buy
mod6: i guess i didn't realize that gentoo =~ particle accelerator haha
decimation: yeah but generally if it is itar controlled, nobody makes except maybe for golden toilet price
ascii_field: mod6: not gentoo. gentoo+hardware+man
ascii_field: ~system~
trinque: that should at least clear the grub hurdle
trinque: can fine-tune from there
trinque: it wont reproduce my local set-up, but it sounds like the bar is merely "get a uclibc build env for bitcoind"
mod6: my problem here, is ok, let's say that i get this far and then trinque generiously helps me get the rest of the way to it "working". but what about everyone else?
decimation: ascii_field: honestly if you want this product you are probably going to need to build yourself
ascii_field: decimation: here i sit, building approximately it myself.
ascii_field: decimation: very tediously, and at great expense.
ascii_field: decimation: where's the 100% open spec ?
decimation: heh good luck on that
trinque: mod6: what's the desired result, you pop a livecd in and it installs as well as openbsd or debian does?
mod6: so, anyway, i dunno. i guess that's just where I'm at. I'll keep working towards getting something going for myself. go from there I guess.
ascii_field: decimation: gotta love the 'full data sheet' without ANY programming info
decimation: apparently it does have linux drivers
decimation: probably binary blobs
ascii_field: useless then.
decimation: it does meet your other specs though
decimation: and 'only' $11k
mod6: <+trinque> mod6: what's the desired result, you pop a livecd in and it installs as well as openbsd or debian does? << well, something like that. you pop-in LiveCD, follow The Foundation's ``Guide'' through the chroot process, using hardened uclibc, whatever packages we think are required to build the R.I.
ascii_field: and i don't need the adc for anything
mod6: i mean, we're basically trying to build our own linux here specifically for the R.I.
trinque: mod6: sounds like livecd plus a finished version of my script there
mod6: ok. cool. I'll give it a try.
ascii_field: mod6: we ~did~ build own linux for the r.i.
ascii_field: this one's for human use
ascii_field: as i understand
trinque: thing is partitioning's a very personal decision
decimation: wait I thought you wanted adc
ascii_field: decimation: nope
ascii_field: decimation: logic capture
mod6: well, we started with Deb6 + packages.
ascii_field: between known-low and known-high
decimation: so you only need 500 mhz '1-bit' samples?
decimation: yeah do it yourself
decimation: this card I linked is probably the closest 'industry' has
trinque: mod6: if you use the disk image approach the livecd story becomes very simple
trinque: that thing's only purpose could be to dump you into a booted gentoo which you then follow instructions to configure
trinque: complete with various "oh you want to encrypt /home ?" and so on
trinque: livecd boots, starts bash script whose only purpose is to be told which drive to obliterate with a standard base image
mod6: trinque: with the image, don't we run into issues with hardware other than x86_64?
trinque: you'd just make separate base images
ascii_field: mod6: the whole 'pc compatible platform' thing kinda fell apart
ascii_field: e.g., mircea_popescu's box flaked for no known reason
decimation: why not make a 'buildroot' that targets 32-bit x86?
trinque: anyhow I've given my opinion on how this ought to be done.
ascii_field: decimation: because they are no longer readily available ?
mod6: <+decimation> why not make a 'buildroot' that targets 32-bit x86? << for the R.I. itself or gentoo?
trinque: !up ascii_field
mod6: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: mod6: you can set yours to x86, or sparc, or whatever
decimation: what isn't available? doesn't x86-64 also run 32 bit?
ascii_field: problem is that x86 is not a platform !
decimation: no, not really
ascii_field: some other fell has different vga - no go
decimation: it's true you would need a highly restricted hardware list
mod6: are we talking about two different things here? let's leave the R.I. out of it for a minute. my assumption there is someone can indeed create a "buildroot" or w/e to then cross compile to whatever they want for the R.I.
trinque: none of this applies to booting the thing
trinque: if the livecd loads, if your own box doesn't, you fucked up.
mod6: I'm just trying to figure out how to get some comprehensive steps so just about anyone who wants to can use our gentoo thingy.
decimation: mod6: I'm saying ditch gentoo, use buildroot
decimation: but ascii has a point, this wouldn't work if everyone does not have the same hardware
mod6: isn't buildroot the thing that alf said must be used inside of gentoo?
mircea_popescu: mod6 well, he created it SOMEHOW. im not sure how far that preferred way goes, people get to drive a car their preferred way to ~some degree~.
ascii_field: mod6: it theoretically ought to work elsewhere. but it turned out that other linuxen ship with defective gcc.
ascii_field: buildroot works great when everyone has physically same computer.
ascii_field: e.g. pogo or nintendo etc
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> and ~perhaps~ he can build another, if asked nicely << if you want to get killed, splendid way to go about things.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you mean, killed faster ?
mircea_popescu: killed faster more.
ascii_field: almost certainly
ascii_field: i'd love to teach a platoon of #b-a folks to do what i do, either/or to become less killworthy or (more practically) to be replaced more quickly when finally killed.
ascii_field: but this does not appear to be happening.
mircea_popescu: eh, give it a decade
mircea_popescu: it's not even 2115 yet.
ascii_field does not expect to live for decade
mircea_popescu: the unmistakable mark of youth.
assbot: Reddit Outrage Reveals Y Combinator Censorship Agenda | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTjQVp )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo url fix too
BingoBoingo: What url fix?
mircea_popescu gazes upon the cvasi=monotonic s.mpoe evolution past few weeks.... nuts.
BingoBoingo: Url and title can mismatch, get moar SEO gainz that way
mircea_popescu: i dunno abouit these newfangled seo whatchamacallits.
BingoBoingo: Neither do I. It's all fucking voodoo
trinque: I'm gonna have to finish my genbootstrap script before you guys accept gentoo can be installed, I can see.
trinque started in data centers derping out OSs to boxen
jurov: trinque: will it be capable to resolve boxen suddenly refusing to boot?
trinque: I refuse to accept that that's even a thing.
trinque: you don't keep backup kernels around?
trinque never throws away a "known good" anything once had
mircea_popescu: "Days earlier Imgur had begun purging images hosted on their site which had been linked to on /r/fatpeople hate."
mircea_popescu: whoi the fuck would use imgur then!
decimation: "What a system like Atomwise actually does can be pretty opaque to a general audience."
jurov: i do. but some people become enraged upon encountering grub> prompt
danielpbarron: "harassing a doxxing" should be *and ? << BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: copypaste you seriously want to open yet another dig ?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: ty
ascii_field: decimation: it is 10x as funny to be because i actually worked in pharma, doing precisely what the sc4mz0rz are claiming to do
trinque: jurov: yeah and you had it earlier; you can easily load a kernel from that
trinque: config's only running commands against that
ascii_field: (it did not work especially well, and was not especially fun)
decimation: ascii_field: if people could actually protein fold their way to cures it would have been done already
mod6: trinque and I tried to get my thing to work from grub> for hours one night, perhaps a few different times. if it was simple, we'd have resolved it. it's probably my dumb POS box.
ascii_field: decimation: what the more clever hucksters are doing is to search for 'undergrazed' scams
mircea_popescu: https://media.8ch.net/fatpeoplehate/src/1434144042496-2.jpg << am i the only one thinking she's pretty hot ?
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162023 <<< that's super common along the hume highway (takes you from Sydney to Melbourne) and you'll find dead roos, wombats, birds etc etc strew along a 1000km road
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 17:28:01; fluffypony: nah, that's for cazalla's benefit ;)
fluffypony: goddamn roos
ascii_field: e.g., just about everyone at this point went to first grade and would spit on a claimed perpetuum mobile, but if you ask'em to invest in 'miraculous' protein fold solver - different matter
mircea_popescu: ascii_field she's slightly overweight.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> https://media.8ch.net/fatpeoplehate/src/1434144042496-2.jpg << am i the only one thinking she's pretty hot ? << 8chan's non nick makes it hard to verify actual shitlords are posting
cazalla: mircea_popescu, nice body but that face :\
mircea_popescu: cazalla you and your faces. fuck the other end.
trinque: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3HBVFND.txt )
decimation: ascii_field: but don't you know Big Pharma supresses us!
mircea_popescu: in other news, a turducken walks into the counsellor's office
mircea_popescu: "doc, i dunno what to do... i feel like a chicken trapped in a turkey's body"
trinque: mod6: this is why I think a standard set of relatively cheap hardware is called in the default build
cazalla: mircea_popescu, you do know you can fuck both ends yeah?
mircea_popescu: decimation honestly, that particular mob reads a lot to me like the people claiming the "auto industry" is "supressing the water engine" trying to jump ship
mircea_popescu: as their original bs is very hard to sell in the current political climate.
mircea_popescu: cazalla well you can but you dun have to
cazalla: if you can, you must!
decimation: agreed, since they can't explain what they actually do (see ascii's point), they gotta be all conspiratorial
mircea_popescu: trinque moreover, the value of an "approved hardware list" should be obvious.
mircea_popescu: i am all for this.
trinque: yep
mircea_popescu: Do you hate slimfat people? I'm not visible fat if you see my with a shirt, but I'm out of shape when you see me without it, I have the hips of a woman.
mircea_popescu: (USER WAS BANNED FOR DENYING HIS FATNESS)
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha
decimation: trinque: one idea is the 'hp microserver' gen 7
decimation: has closed bios, but that's going to be neigh impossible to avoid on x86
trinque: yeah, well... it's not going to be a lisp machine either
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 21:25:22; mircea_popescu: ascii_field she's slightly overweight.
ascii_field: but 'different folks, different strokes'
trinque: decimation: I like these tiny cuboid cases
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 21:26:36; trinque: mod6: this is why I think a standard set of relatively cheap hardware is called in the default build
ascii_field: i know of no such thing
trinque: bah
trinque: trinque | yeah, well... it's not going to be a lisp machine either
decimation: trinque: they are quiet
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 21:30:09; decimation: has closed bios, but that's going to be neigh impossible to avoid on x86
trinque: ascii_field: it's obvious I'm saying that picking hardware which is known in advance to boot gentoo
trinque: *might be beneficial
trinque: if you want a machine that does exactly and only and none other than what's in some specification, lol
trinque goes to find a plow
ascii_field: http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm << i've been using these for various x86y things
assbot: PC Engines apu system boards ... ( http://bit.ly/1JL2POd )
ascii_field: entirely linuxable
ascii_field: (incl. bios)
ascii_field: doesn't even come with a 'civilian' bios
ascii_field: but - it has no vga.
ascii_field: nor is there any obvious means to add one
trinque: not so bad to be headless
ascii_field: (i tried the mpcie slots with various vga cards. no go.)
ascii_field: you can tunnel x11 out of it if you insist.
ascii_field: (most frustrating thing is that the amd chip on this board ~has vga~ built in. but no amp on the pcb and no connector.)
trinque: heh combine this guy with the terminal I think decimation picked up
decimation: yeah absolutely
decimation: or use another computer for terminal
ascii_field: has 3 x 1G ethernet. can tunnel x11 out of it with no palpable delay
ascii_field: (this is another reason why the shitgnomatic 'replacements' for x11 are nonsensical. if i can't get EXACT same experience through a net connection to the machine without idiocies like 'sharing desktop', the gui is WORHTLESS)
trinque: $127 or $150 for 4gb ram
jurov: will it blend...er.. run eulora?
trinque: doubtful
ascii_field: jurov: probably not. no 3d card
decimation: good luck getting winblow to boot
trinque: but what's the goal
trinque: I see this as a box with which to connect to the wotnet, things like that
assbot: Green Day - Dominated Love Slave + lyrics - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JL3gYK )
trinque: your bitchin gaming pc goes behind it
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: decimation: laugh, but winblows boots on'em!
ascii_field: finds the onboard vga (with no output) even.
ascii_field: ('corebios' aka linuxbios ships with a simple dos-compat. layer that will boot winblows if you must)
ascii_field: in as far as x86-64 goes, these boards are surprisingly good.
decimation: heh amusing
ascii_field: (that is, nothing obviously and profanely turdalicious on them)
ascii_field: even brings the spi eeprom where bios is out to pin headers, for ease of reflashing/readback
mircea_popescu: all these social media derps saying "privilege" like it's a bad thing ?!
mircea_popescu: wtf is with this bullshit. the only thing better than being privileged is being hm
mircea_popescu: there's nothing better than beingpriviledged.
decimation: ascii_field: can you boot from eeprom?
mats: fun fact (unapproved by the FCC): the VGA is a decent TX-only SDR.
ascii_field: decimation: all of mine, do
ascii_field: you can stuff generic kernel in there
trinque: mircea_popescu: means "not fair, give me your shit"
decimation: mats: it would be noisy as hell
trinque: to them
ascii_field: mats: ancient history. music over vga
decimation: wow even can order metal case
ascii_field: mats: http://bellard.org/dvbt << can even transmit digital tv !
assbot: Analog and Digital TV (DVB-T) Signal Generation ... ( http://bit.ly/1JL3I9u )
ascii_field: with normal vga card.
mats: i've not seen that before
ascii_field: ^ plays music
assbot: PC Engines case1c2u product file ... ( http://bit.ly/1JL3S0x )
ascii_field: aha, i have this.
ascii_field: rock-solid box
assbot: Labor Dept. plans H-1B probe -- one that could have an impact | Computerworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTosuE )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162688 << it gets better. i have reports of an assortment of cards, including uber popular stuff like nvidia 520 series, getting 2-3 fps on eulora.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 21:38:55; jurov: will it blend...er.. run eulora?
mircea_popescu: with multiple versions of newest drivers etc.
mircea_popescu: for reasons ???? nobody fucking knows.
mircea_popescu: opengl something or other, for sure.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i can tell you now, why
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: microshit discourages functional opengl in gpu drivers
ascii_field: (they wish to have their 'directx' turd in universal, mandatory use)
mircea_popescu: problem exists on fucking ubuntu apparently.
ascii_field: so it pulls on the ropes.
ascii_field: problem exists at the two remaining gpu makers.
ascii_field: each is a proud servant of microshit.
mircea_popescu: i dunno man, i get 60 fps constant on that thing.
mircea_popescu: also nvidia card
ascii_field: any common factors between the unhappy cards ?
decimation: *nvidia recommends winblows for optimal experience
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was looking for a why more in the form of IdiotCamelCaseFunctionOfDoomNotImplementedRevertsToSoftwareEmulation
mircea_popescu: ascii_field not that i could discern so far.
mircea_popescu: but next s.mg report is going to contain list of functional gpus.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly in line of what trinque was saying
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162751 << that is precisely what you're experiencing, but the source is not public.
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 21:49:40; mircea_popescu: anyway, i was looking for a why more in the form of IdiotCamelCaseFunctionOfDoomNotImplementedRevertsToSoftwareEmulation
mircea_popescu: opengl is public.
ascii_field: the back end.
ascii_field: where it turns into actual gpu instructions
ascii_field: is not public.
mircea_popescu: that's all i care to know : what portion of the spec is not implemented correctly.
mircea_popescu: i don't give a shit about that
mircea_popescu: im not here to fix anything
mircea_popescu: i am here to burn things
mircea_popescu: stirctly, strictly that. i don't aim to run a university, i aim to run a decimation service.
ascii_field: burn nvidia. (amd at least shows remorse, published gpu specs for a megatonne of cards, and ~no one has done anything with them~)
mircea_popescu: for now i want the camel.
ascii_field: which camel? the one who walks through the eye of a needle ?
mircea_popescu: IdiotCamelCaseFunctionOfDoomNotImplementedRevertsToSoftwareEmulation
decimation: reverse engineer driver
ascii_field: decimation: that gets you ~one particular chip~
ascii_field: see also the fpga threads.
mircea_popescu: so far i'm waiting for someone with experience to go "oh! well of course!"
mircea_popescu: "it alwas looks like this when X"
decimation: the probability that someone derps with ubuntu AND can find root causes of closed driver failures strikes me as low
mircea_popescu: it happens across the board, not just ubuntu
mircea_popescu: i just said it happened on ubuntu to dispel the theory it'd be windows specific, it's not
ascii_field: does the thing use shader /
ascii_field: likely culprit
mircea_popescu: and yes prolly the shader's involved because clipping and flicking
trinque: govt owes her state-funded skin pigment reassignment
trinque: usistan, glorious empire of delusional narcissism
shinohai: is there anyone here that is a btc .conf wiz ?
mats: ask your question, don't ask to ask
shinohai: blocking nodes is inefficient, yes?
trinque: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER
shinohai: my apologies, I am researching as well
assbot: The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov ... ( http://bit.ly/1QTspj0 )
mircea_popescu: shinohai inefficient for what purpose ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 3500 @ 0.00111 = 3.885 BTC
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 21:23:54; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149116 << i tried various values of 'misbehave' increment per orphan block - 20, 50, even 100. in my tests, this made sync... slower. reason, as i understand, was that 1) you lose time renegotiating connection 2) overwhelmingly likely that any node you reconnect to -also- shits just as many orphans.
shinohai: suppoae i wish to ignore xt nodes by default
shinohai: thiswould be better when i arrive home, irc on phone is terrible
trinque wonders if pf could accomplish that
trinque: shinohai: sounds like a patch to bitcoind
shinohai: there are only a few hundred ip's if that
assbot: XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1KLX7ee )
mircea_popescu: shinohai nothing prevents you from ignoring any node. this is how people deal with hooligans, it's been a thing since forever.
mircea_popescu: i see no problem with simply nullrouting all "xt nodes", and for that matter the general practice is to block any node that advertises a version different from your own.
mircea_popescu: seeing how what version you run is a political choice more than a technological one, accepting dissent is -ev for your own affairs.
mircea_popescu: it is, after all, a consensus mechanism, not a fucking science journal.
shinohai: I'm good then. its running so meh
trinque: ascii_field: thanks for the link to pcengines; very interesting to me for a variety of uses
jurov: only bandar toolkit is something that i can both make and have sense to have blessed
mircea_popescu: wellthen.
danielpbarron: i must be close to being able to make something useful. I've been scoring claims that yeild 100+ items
jurov: danielpbarron: today?
danielpbarron: yeah, last night and today
jurov: yest everything i found was tiny
danielpbarron: well.. "last night" .. "very very early this morning"
mircea_popescu: !up Bob32442
danielpbarron: the learning curv is very steep with eulora, to the point where it's a chore to get going with it. But once I had a few things figured out it is now becoming addictive
jurov: danielpbarron: could say sooner the claims are there. i just logged in today and let it be.
jurov: at least figured out cs supports python scripting
Bob32442: hmm, I don't get the cap, why is it that it can't be removed?
jurov: Bob32442: what cap? blocksize?
jurov: go read trilema
Bob32442: yeah
Bob32442: so... wait, then why does anyone use bitcoin if they think that's going to happen?
Bob32442: Maybe I should read the rest of it lol
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron information-wise steep ?
mircea_popescu: "anyone" is a particularly inept model. it presumes the world composed of imbecile 20somethings like one finds on reddit.
mircea_popescu: this is pointedly untrue.
mircea_popescu: people who use money are fundamentally different than the sort of bovines sturggling with us college education.
mircea_popescu: who, notably, do not use money either. or yachts. etc.
mike_c: jurov: have you been able to write a python script that'll do something in the game?
jurov: lol far from that
mike_c: ah
jurov: just found scripting support in cs and after some diddling, compiled and ran tutorial app
jurov: seems that feature was left to rot
mike_c: so the plan would be to modify client in someway that would then support python scripting
mike_c: if interest held
assbot: Phys.Org Mobile: Chinese hackers got sensitive military files: report ... ( http://bit.ly/1JLdqbV )
jurov: yes, if ~ then i'll do the irc stuff in py, too. but then have to bundle python in win32 package, too
trinque: doesn't seem like they're amused by the "pivot"
cazalla: oh boy this article is gonna be a good one
mircea_popescu: mike_c it should be possible tho.
mike_c: yeah, i'll have to take another crack at compiling this thing
mircea_popescu: anyway, fwiw, the thinking minigame side is that if there's three or four independently maintained clients which each does its own thing that's perfect.
mircea_popescu: minigame will always release a "reference client", but i'd frankly love for people to make their own.
mircea_popescu: cazalla which one ? :D
cazalla: publishing it soon, just adding links
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162846 << gotta love usg. always 'chinese wreckers stole,' never 'microshit turdows spilled'
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 23:44:37; trinque: http://m.phys.org/_news353350213.html
trinque: heh no kidding
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162802 << my understanding is that hearn is more clever than gavin, laid his traps such that they all spring at once when he pulls the switch (and emulates something like proper bitcoin until then)
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 22:17:19; shinohai: suppoae i wish to ignore xt nodes by default
cazalla: do ur thang scoopbot
trinque: asciilifeform: the github repo says "this is so totally not about blocksize"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162814 << be aware, the thing isn't some paragon of good hygiene. (the nic, like all modern nics, has some hidden cpu; etc) but is the cleanest x86 i know of to still be in production
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 22:28:57; trinque: ascii_field: thanks for the link to pcengines; very interesting to me for a variety of uses
trinque: the reddit post referencing hearn said "we could increase blocksize on xt in a week" 3 days gago
trinque: *ago
trinque: asciilifeform: your and other material has long since disabused me of the idea that I'll own a computer any time soon
asciilifeform: re: t3rr0r1sm!!111!!!1: for all the loud usg idiocy, the head-choppers have yet to chop a head, on camera, on top of a carpet with their gpg fingeprint embroidered on it
asciilifeform: so anyone who thinks he is writing them a letter, is writing to ft meade
asciilifeform: ditto for anyone who is reading 'their' communiques.
asciilifeform: i somehow fail to grasp why this is so. did the prophet forbid the multiplication of large primes ?
asciilifeform: but not, e.g., kalashnikov ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ayup, they are very singlemindedly following their talking pointsa.
asciilifeform: ditto for the idiots sending 'them' bitcoin
asciilifeform: usg is laughing all the way to, well, their wallet.
mircea_popescu: and yes hearn is a better political animal than gavin, but not more intelligent
mircea_popescu: just, one admits to himself he's filth, the other does not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't a clue whether hearn is the actual author of the hearnias in question, or not. only that the particular boobytrap which he misrepresents as 'bitcoin' is a more subtle one.
mircea_popescu: hypocrisy is always lower functioning.
asciilifeform: it blew me away that hearn openly expressed an interest in 'remote attestation' on the air.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently the prophet is said to have forbidden, by some twerps
asciilifeform: it's a leper's bell, loud and clear
mircea_popescu: recall the case of the british terrorist who used caesar cypher because "excel smarter than anything the gyauri could have invented" ?
asciilifeform: i read it as a mix of stupidity and desperation
asciilifeform: (where is he supposed to get non-usg crypto that he can understand ?)
mircea_popescu: it's all stupidity.
mircea_popescu: it is meaningless to speak of a revolutionary's desperation.
mircea_popescu: if he were not desperate ~of the world~ he would be pursuing a career.
asciilifeform: what i also don't get is, didn't any of these folks, in three generations of service to brit and then sov. empire, learn vernam ?
mircea_popescu: if his desperation of the world meant what it usually means, he'd be long gone.
mircea_popescu: that he's here makes the word meaningless
mircea_popescu: dude, i had to be the first one to show the concept of a map to random cairo cab driver.
mircea_popescu: what, you think women pop out smart people now or something ? what is this, the spherical future ?
asciilifeform: cabbie isn't usually same as 50 y.o. ex-signals corps fella
asciilifeform: (no lack of the latter working as the former, sure)
mircea_popescu: the reason "export controls" work is that idiots perceive themselves as ~equal to everyone else.
mircea_popescu: so they don't miss what they don't have.
asciilifeform: but this is easily broken by some helpful fella giving then a bit of what they lack.
mircea_popescu: no, it is not.
mircea_popescu: because idiot's main concern is whether this makes the other guy better than him
mircea_popescu: AS IF this can be in debate.
asciilifeform: and, incidentally, sov. engineers had no trouble 'missing what they don't have' and went to great lengths to get it
mircea_popescu: they knew themselves to be idiots.
mircea_popescu: arabs do not.
asciilifeform: sometimes via multi-$mil elaborate s4mz0r1ngs
asciilifeform: (see the japanese cnc mill case)
asciilifeform: or the hilariously complicated network of shill corps through which ussr purchased dec pdp and vax
mircea_popescu: was that ever published ?
asciilifeform: in english? no idea
mircea_popescu: in drawings lol
mircea_popescu: names are names
asciilifeform: http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/89801/DOC_0000500644.pdf << from horse's mouth. scan of ancient usg memo detailing 'omg111!!!111! they stole it all'
asciilifeform: take, obviously, with a grain of liquid shit
asciilifeform: the whole 'keep those orcs from getting modern tech' thing was intensely counter-economic from standpoint of u.s. chip makers, as ussr was prepared to pay with gold, plutonium, virgins, 100x the going rate
asciilifeform: and the merchants, unsurprisingly, wanted to sell.
asciilifeform: (american industrial folk knew that orcs would copy, but also knew that the copies would not appear on american market. so it was not an issue of patent rights)
mircea_popescu: but not for very many
mircea_popescu: in any shape or form the deal would have been a tech transfer, not an item sale.
mircea_popescu: and the soviets were NOT prepared to pay with slaves.
mircea_popescu: anything but that. the chinese paid with slaves later on, and it took.
mircea_popescu: even if the payment was, like all payments, false.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: jp got paid in, iirc, gold.
asciilifeform: ditto u.s. grain
asciilifeform: p. 6 of the report is hilariously mistaken. ussr produced perfectly adequate hdd for the period. we had one: http://www.retro-pc.net/musei/dd/hdd/index_ru.htm (scroll to middle past the japanese unit)
asciilifeform: (how much of the -inside- was made overseas, i do not know)
asciilifeform: the 760mb 'micropolis' featured in this www is actually in my kitchen now.
asciilifeform: it is in the symbolics 3620 lisp machine, and works still.
mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euergetism << check it out, poorly translated french shannonizer content, trying to misrepresent classical antiquity more in line with the modern idiocies.
assbot: Euergetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FZzdWc )
mircea_popescu: what was the name of that derpy french knownothing the english world went all gaga over earlier this year ?
mircea_popescu: derpyterpy something, four syllables ending in y ?
mircea_popescu: piketty ty.
asciilifeform missed this
asciilifeform: !up referredbyloper
assbot: OLD-COMPUTERS.COM musem ~ IPTVT (Traian Vuia Polytechnical Institute) MicroTim ... ( http://bit.ly/1FZzJ6l )
asciilifeform: mentioned in the cia thing (p. 43)
asciilifeform: under brand 'amic'
mircea_popescu: - TIM-S: 6 Mhz mode, 80 KB RAM, 16 KB ROM <
mircea_popescu: and amic iirc was not actually a z80
mircea_popescu: it also sucked.
mircea_popescu: well minus the monitor and deck tape, which are random items
asciilifeform: the profusion of absolutely abysmal keyboards in '80s sovblok micros always bewildered me. any country that knows how to make ballpoint pens could have copied ibm's keyboard
asciilifeform: (the necessary only metallic part is the springs, quite identical to those found in pen)
mircea_popescu: the tim-s had a decent, steel spring actioned keyboard
asciilifeform: not obvious from the photo
mircea_popescu: they briefly used a "sealed flexible plastic sensor" bs, but got out of it within a year or so
mircea_popescu: the hc had a very retarded arrangement, where the straight rather than /-\ shaped keys caught, and so on.
mircea_popescu: but the tim-s was decent, about on par with today's no name chinese kbd
asciilifeform: today's disposables have no springs, only rubber bulbs (molded into a sheet)
mircea_popescu: (significantly harder, ofcourse, but at the time most everyone was used to manual typewriters, which is maybe 10x the force anyone born after 1980 types with)
mircea_popescu takes out a key, looks at the spring, puts it back in
asciilifeform: interestingly, mechanical 'underwood'-style typewriters are beloved by american 'hipster writer' types. they are easy enough to find in junk stores
asciilifeform: there is a kind of cargo cult appeal to the things
mircea_popescu: they prolly come in discount packages with leika film cams
mircea_popescu: for hipster couples.
mircea_popescu: they could pretend it's grenwich village 1963
asciilifeform: what keyboard mircea_popescu has, 'unicomp' ? i know of no other that has springs but can still be described as 'disposable'
mircea_popescu: she could be an anais nin of photography and he could be an henry miller of poetry
asciilifeform: (fella i know just threw just such a keyboard out, after getting a proper 'm')
asciilifeform: ^ they make cheap copies using classical ibm drawings
asciilifeform: lasts a few yrs.
asciilifeform: iirc it omits the steel 'anvil' found in the genuine 'm'
trinque: complete with speedometer
asciilifeform: so the pcb eventually augers in, cracks
asciilifeform likes his 'ibm m' and 'northgate' kbds but would eventually like something that doesn't throw rf around for fifty metres
asciilifeform: culprit, incidentally, is the scanned switching matrix, present in -all- pc keyboards.
mircea_popescu: http://sd4.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/cip3.jpg << and that's the 90s version. by then only the poor kids were still dicking around with z80s tho
asciilifeform almost asked where the 'lat' key is, but then hit self on head
asciilifeform: would've been classy if they'd left the cradle in, to use as accoustic modem
mircea_popescu: "Mai erau CIP-urile, pe care incarcai interpretorul BASIC de pe caseta, era nasol ca resetai si iti lua timp si incarcarea lui. In plus ii sareau tastele in permanenta, si pierdeai si arculetele de pix din ele, se rupeau piciorusele de plastic, era aiurea."
mircea_popescu: "it sucked because their keys kept jumping off and you'd lose the dumbass ballpointpen springs "
asciilifeform an hour or so ago was reassembling 'model m', dried from wash, and noticed the very fine detail on the keys which prevents popping. good injection molding tech is needed to have these.
assbot: Från Sidan Photo by slaktarnp90 | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1BclZtg )
mike_c: mircea_popescu: that one isn't ringing a bell, but it looks fun :)
danielpbarron: !up ben-of-the-casca
ben-of-the-casca: re eulora, dpb, ive found rocks and scratches mostly by looking for things further away than the bushes are rendering
ben-of-the-casca: looking forward to being able to /explore tho
danielpbarron: i can sell you a stack of the item that gives you it :D
ben-of-the-casca: how much and how many?
danielpbarron: 23 for 0.01 ?
mod6: wat
ben-of-the-casca: let me get further bored by looking for the last item
ben-of-the-casca: unless mod6 just derps it over to me
mod6: waddya need?
danielpbarron: 1 of them isn't much; you don't get good results until it's mostly maxed out
ben-of-the-casca: not the rock, not the scratchings but that other thing
danielpbarron: for me it was the rock that i found last
danielpbarron: and someone had to lead me to it
mod6: oh those rocks
ben-of-the-casca: the renderings so fucked in my machine
mod6: i can give you one, i've only got 3.
ben-of-the-casca: i can see markers and items - but theyre just black
danielpbarron: my laptop overheats and the game goes at 3 fps but that doesn't really effect game play yet
danielpbarron: that's just if it's night time
ben-of-the-casca: well then
mod6: dang
mod6: im getting 15-16 fps on my core i5 internal graphics card.
mod6: im the only guy in eulora right now
mod6: everyone else is at the club, making it rain
mod6: now if this kernel would just hurry up...
assbot: Chinese hack compromised security-clearance database - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ia1Kd0 )
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-06-2015#1162834 << yeah, all the different mechanics were a bit overwhelming at first. Starting to coalesce in my mind
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 23:34:43; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron information-wise steep ?
danielpbarron: i haven't played a game that's like this in a long while
danielpbarron: it's annoying now, having to click so many times to do stuff, but I understand why each step is separate
danielpbarron: in the future, someone can specialize each step of production
danielpbarron: and I upvote the named keys idea
danielpbarron: is it possible to make the inventory interface more like that of minecraft?
danielpbarron: for example, when clicking a stack of items > 1, it should just pick up the whole thing by default
danielpbarron: and then you can have left-click right-click and shift-click drop varying amounts
decimation: usg's breach is significant - they lose personal information on people whom usg asks to keep secrets
cazalla: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/australian-houses-are-just-glorified-tents-in-winter-20150610-ghj2ox TLDR more people die from cold in australian due to shitty homes than the hot summers we're known for
assbot: Australian houses are just glorified tents in winter ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ia3936 )
decimation: cazalla: I thought only the us built shit homes
cazalla: decimation, at least the shit homes are somewhat cheaper there.. here you pay a cool million for place with no front/back yard made of straw
decimation: where does all this money come from? is it because people bid up AU$ because of the raw materials?
cazalla: low interest rates, deposits are given to kids from boomers, chinese investment and truckloads of negative gearing ensuring people have 4-5 investment properties
decimation: people have to have income to qualify for loans
decimation: does everyone get paid $200k?
cazalla: nah you don't need 200k salary, you can borrow a million on like 50k
decimation: they've clamped down on lending in the us
decimation: you can't get a loan unless you have %20 and good credit
decimation: at least, not a good interest rate
cazalla: quick look then shows working couple who earn 50k each can borrow almost 700k
cazalla: over 30 years
decimation: wouldn't such a couple then be poor if they took such a 'deal'?
decimation: debt-slaves?
cazalla: mind you, that is pre-tax salary
cazalla: decimation, yeah most people are slaves.. 30 years ago it was possible for the average sole income working father, stay at home mum to buy a 1/4 acre block in the suburbs and raise 2-3 kids
cazalla: today you need both parents working full time with no kids or if you have kids, 1 or 2 at most put into childcare so the mother can pay half her wage for someone else to look after her kids while her other half goes on the mortgage
decimation: yeah that's how it is in most of the us today too
decimation: there's no fixed supply of dollars, so more people working just means more cost
cazalla: i don't even know why they do it tbh
decimation: well, now everyone is screwed
decimation: in the us the effect is worsened by the fact that near most major us cities you need to have dual incomes to 'earn' a spot in a decent school
assbot: Logged on 12-06-2015 14:48:00; danielpbarron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZp7UGgBR0I
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 02:30:18; danielpbarron: in the future, someone can specialize each step of production
cazalla: decimation, here it is almost like every generation has to work twice as much for half of what their parents had
decimation: cazalla: I guess the most rational response would be to coordinate groups of people to move away from the dense cities and start new living areas
danielpbarron: speaking of which, is the leaky treebark flask design supposed to be blank?
cazalla: decimation, ah but there is no work in rural australia and if you are on welfare and move from an area of high employment to one of high unemployment, you get cut off
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 02:50:34; decimation: where does all this money come from? is it because people bid up AU$ because of the raw materials?
mircea_popescu: they have literally infinite USD
cazalla: decimation, so to go rural, you need enough money to own it upfront and enough to last you for however long you may live
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron nope. it's supposed to have been fixed like three revisions ago o.O
cazalla: decimation, and rural.. as in the middle of nowhere, you are still paying more (100k-200k) than american suburbs
decimation: cazalla: yeah I guess my point is that they could start a new city there
decimation: but it sounds like that's already been priced out
decimation: why some wasteland in australia is worth $100k...
decimation: even good farmland in iowa goes for $5k an acre
cazalla: you can go cheaper - abandoned mining towns - but then you have to deal with fucked up water and environment
cazalla: might set you back 50k for that
decimation: yeah I agree with mircea, it sounds to me that the chinese have bid australia to the moon
cazalla: yeah, they can buy citizenship here too for 5 million so those clever chinese were giving the AU gov 5 million, borrowing the 5 million back from some chinese lender and then using that to buy 5 million in property once they got here
cazalla: i'd like to think it will end soon as i don't see how people can be squeezed any further at this point but asciilifeform reminded me that there is still much fat left to be trimmed
cazalla: fwiw, missus and i have no rent or mortgage and it is still hard
cazalla: so i imagine those people with mortgages will soon eat chum (dog food) if they are not already
decimation: yeah if they aren't already
cazalla: i mean, kid my age who lived on my street regularly ate his cat's cat food
mod6: omg and we have grub that works...
decimation: you can live on rice and beans pretty cheap
mod6: trinque's script & help got this pos up and running on gentoo hardened w/uclibc finally.
mod6: i had a problem with my disk paritions
cazalla: decimation, aussies like their meat, pet food or not
mod6 straps on a napkin and eats a sack of dead crows
decimation: better start hunting 'roos
decimation: or dingos :)
cazalla: birds might be easier tbh plus the abo word for budgerigar is good eating
cazalla: with no guns, having to spear or tackle a roo could get you killed, fucking things kick
decimation: heh oh yeah I forgot they took yer guns too
mircea_popescu: no guns in australia ? lmao
mircea_popescu: twerps, seriously.
decimation: mircea_popescu: how do you think they will be described by chinese historians 1000 years from now?
mircea_popescu: "aboriginals"
cazalla: yeah, bow and arrow ban in the pipeline too
mircea_popescu: same thing we called the papuans or w/e
cazalla: meh, they aren't really any abos left anyway, they are all half bloods at best
decimation: no, I think mircea meant the people who are willing to trade hard assets to the chinese in exchange for paper and promises
cazalla: but even if you're 1/8 abo, you can claim extra assistance from the government, so according to the census there are more abos than ever before
cazalla: yeah stupid thing that
decimation: the natives have the same racket here, and also in canada
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << empty hopper, will refill tomorrow. anyone who wants to get phuctored in short order, plz now.
decimation: asciilifeform: interesting the 'me.com' and 'mac.com'
asciilifeform: and yes, ~500MB product.
asciilifeform: (decimal, if feeling nitpicky)
asciilifeform: unrelated:
asciilifeform: ^ apparently 'ibm model m' was itself a cheapening of a previous ancestral tech
decimation: asciilifeform: you ever heard of a 'model f'
decimation: aha it talks about them
asciilifeform: decimation: got one
asciilifeform: decimation: but not a modernized controller for it
asciilifeform: (the one it shipped with did not emit 'break' codes)
asciilifeform: the linked www is about an earlier-still keyboard, which used capacitance-based switches
assbot: Original IBM 4704 Banking System Keyboard Tested 107 Key Model F 6020218 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1L4lly7 )
asciilifeform: theoretically - eternal
asciilifeform: and (this is not stated, but i hypothesize) rf-quiet
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't want a usb controller...
decimation: heh I suspected no
decimation: still you could use his mod as a starting point
asciilifeform: ars longa vita brevis (tm) (r)
assbot: Beam spring - Deskthority wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1L4lPUU )
decimation: at any rate I like that keyboard for sale, lots of reassignable keys
decimation: also model f keyboards were full "nkro"
decimation: that might affect rf quietness
asciilifeform never had problems with rollover
decimation: yeah it really only matters for gamers who wann mash 5 keys at once
asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Huge-IBM-5251-Mechanical-Beam-Spring-Keyboard-CLICKY-Display-Terminal-UK-/151686841869 << exists also on ebay. looks quite like the older of my two lispm keyboards (which did not click)
assbot: Vintage Huge IBM 5251 Mechanical Beam Spring Keyboard Clicky Display Terminal UK | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1BcBvp8 )
decimation: heh. I wonder if that's a serial output
asciilifeform: all keyboards have 'serial' output, one way or another
asciilifeform: but afaik none spoke traditional rs232. would've involved too much active logic.
decimation: the 'model f' I linked appears to have 'meta' key
asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/Symbolics3600Keyboard.png << typical keyboard of the period. reversed (laboriously) by yours truly.
decimation: asciilifeform: did you get it to work as 'ps/2'?
asciilifeform: decimation: no, but some german fella got it as usb.
asciilifeform: based on this sketch
asciilifeform: i had it as a parallel port widget for a while.
decimation: has 'meta, super' keys?
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