Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-03-24 | 2015-03-26 →
assbot: config-3.18.5-kirkwood-tld-1 - ... ( )
nubbins`: latest
asciilifeform: nubbins`: he has a patch.
asciilifeform: that's the boojum, i think
assbot: linux-3.18.5-kirkwood-tld-1.patch - ... ( )
asciilifeform: guess what, i built a kernel
asciilifeform: that boot
asciilifeform: ... and promptly panics
asciilifeform: (because no root fs)
asciilifeform: but hey, works
asciilifeform: using -vanilla buildroot-
nubbins`: oh cool
asciilifeform: make sheevaplug_defconfig
nubbins`: see line 615 in above
asciilifeform: that's it
asciilifeform: didn't use any of the weirdo crap from above link
nubbins`: woo!
asciilifeform: tomorrow evening i'll 1) flash in the rootfs to get something like a working box
asciilifeform: 2) mercilessly root out the idiot crud that gets rolled in by default
asciilifeform: (sound cards, etc)
nubbins`: amazing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: habemus kernelam
mircea_popescu: who won ?
mircea_popescu: sheeva ?
mircea_popescu: so this is a sheevaplug brew of what, netbsd ?
asciilifeform: linux 3.18
nubbins`: so you didn't need anything from that patch file?
asciilifeform: apparently not
asciilifeform: the interesting parts were rolled in some time ago in mainline, apparently
asciilifeform: just as i suspected
asciilifeform: 7089334f25a0e1d8b09db96da4d61fbdf7ea7aca258fdd20012f85be976c39e63f5bc29842b25f0dc18a8ccdc74ad1e7c4ed7af56faa39b3917f76e082077589 turdel.gz
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
nubbins`: actually, looking at the pogoplug-related entries in that patch, it's all trivial stuff
nubbins`: front LEDs etc
asciilifeform: nubbins`: not entirely
asciilifeform: nubbins`: there are some memory-mapped i/o iirc
asciilifeform: anyway whoever wants can boot up turdel using my tftp instructions (or by actually flashing it in) and see that it did happen.
asciilifeform: (it croaks, having no meaningful rootfs, but that's for tomorrow)
nubbins`: oh, yeah, i see em
nubbins`: eject button too!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: netbsd i had running weeks and weeks ago. but it sucks for reasons already described in log
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: today by popular demand i went on a little deathmarch and got a source-built traditional linux going on it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16476 @ 0.00022407 = 3.6918 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu looks for a virgin or 40
asciilifeform: this is amply enough to work from
asciilifeform: and can be trimmed into some approximation of good shape.
mircea_popescu: so then, this + 32bit bitcoind and we're done.
mircea_popescu: (in the sense of having a miserable memory leaking low cost node)
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 01:20:19; mod6: alright, new droplet created for x32 deb6 testing.
asciilifeform: the one ingredient that is still needed, that i have not attempted at all, is the formatter
mircea_popescu: linux doesn't come with one ?!
nubbins`: fdisk in crontab to be safe
asciilifeform: that is, which detects 1) have we a disk plugged in? 2) if so, has it a blockchain? 3) if plugged in, no blockchain - format disk
asciilifeform: 4) start bitcoind (in reset death loop)
asciilifeform: it is also of great importance to blink the correct colour led!
nubbins`: yah!
asciilifeform: or else how is operator to know what becomes of his node
asciilifeform: maybe disk is dead
asciilifeform: maybe net connection dead
nubbins`: have the eject button send us a message on irc or something
asciilifeform: nubbins`: pogo4 has no buttons
nubbins`: ah, i thought the purple logo'd one did
trinque: up to the operator to deploy updates later?
asciilifeform: what updates.
trinque: is perfect?
BingoBoingo: <trinque> is perfect? << C doesn't do perfect
asciilifeform: if you must, signed updates
asciilifeform: but i wasn't even thinking of this.
asciilifeform: anyway since when do i have to decide this
asciilifeform: therealbitcoin chairmen, awaken
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6 ?
trinque: bet you could tell it about updates just like deedbot
nubbins`: asciilifeform: my pogo has an eject button :S
asciilifeform: nubbins`: does it actually press?
asciilifeform: also whoever it was who marvelled (l0l) at pogo being a 32bit arm - 64bit is lunacy on a box with 128m of ram and no swap
asciilifeform: it just makes pointers take up 2x the space
asciilifeform: and bloats exe by ~2 factor
nubbins`: granted, it doesn't *do* anything atm
asciilifeform: the designer made an entirely rational choice
nubbins`: but it's at least a real button
asciilifeform: nubbins`: would you care to post a photo of the unit ?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: because it is quite clearly different from mine
ben_vulpes just cracked the craptop
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: another ingredient, since you were making a list, is the seed list
nubbins`: ^ that's yours, not mine
nubbins`: next to eth
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall how it has a gigantic seedlist consisting of mostly corpses, compiled in ?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: -that- button
asciilifeform: i have it too
nubbins`: i had to double check
asciilifeform: thought yours might have had a button under the lamp
nubbins`: no. pressed it like 5x to make sure
nubbins`: i wish :/
nubbins`: instead you need a toothpick
asciilifeform: if ben_vulpes and mod6 decide that we must have an updater (signed, naturally) i suggest that the button be used to trigger it
asciilifeform: loading from attached storage of course
asciilifeform: (not the net)
asciilifeform: at the very minimum, development units ought to have it
ben_vulpes: for pogos?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: long thread re: pogo.
ben_vulpes: no shit.
nubbins`: if we end up jamming the os onto the nand, you could have it scan SD cards on insert for patches
ben_vulpes: since when is the pogo my project?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: tomorrow rootfs in nand
asciilifeform: the kernel i just posted, sees the nand.
nubbins` cheers
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in as far as it may end up the first battlefield deployment of 0.5.3.x - aha.
nubbins`: danielpbarron's project if anyone's 8)
nubbins`: well. alf's if anyone's !
ben_vulpes: yeah, that.
asciilifeform: lol i cleaned a cm of dust off my pogo today.
BingoBoingo: !up Dannyl
ben_vulpes: a cm?!
nubbins`: far be it from me to assume ;D
ben_vulpes: dc air must be miserable
asciilifeform: nah just me
nubbins`: who's got pogos anyway
asciilifeform: i presently am sitting on no fewer than 12.
asciilifeform: and i think mod6 had a bunch
nubbins`: i'll have 3 at some point this week
ben_vulpes: that's a lot of dust...
nubbins`: dpb has at least one
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu iirc had some
nubbins`: hundreds!
asciilifeform: and possibly punkman
nubbins`: hmm yes
asciilifeform: i'm almost beginning to not-regret picking that machine
asciilifeform: having finally booted a reasonable linux
nubbins`: i've got some nebulous plans to kit-ify these & sell em
ben_vulpes: you like things?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: didn't say 'like,' l0l
ben_vulpes: couldn't resist, boss
asciilifeform: nubbins` do you think you could do a print of some kind over the lid?
asciilifeform: or other parts of chassis
asciilifeform: i was considering lasering mine
nubbins`: some sort of vinyl sticker would be easiest/cheapest
asciilifeform: eh chinese
nubbins`: you wouldn't even need to apply the sticker yourself, people like doing that stuff
asciilifeform: stickers are so 10 yrs ago when we all had that gnu with horns on laptops
BingoBoingo: Does anyone have a python script for computing the odds of adult male of supplied height and weight versus (Y) pack of coyotes if armed with a tack hammer?
nubbins`: you'd want solvent inks to silkscreen on that, and yuck
asciilifeform: nubbins` laser then.
nubbins`: it's too bad the name is already stamped into the top
nubbins`: you could laser a byline or smth tho
asciilifeform: nothing a 40w laser can't fix
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7399 @ 0.00021258 = 1.5729 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: now result might be a heap of slag where the logo was
nubbins`: anyone here have a lead on custom injection-molded plastics?
asciilifeform: but ought to try
asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you think pcb is expensive, try injection-molded anything.
nubbins`: recall fake bomb detector story, the one thing the guy always brought when he ran was the tooling
asciilifeform: l0l aha
asciilifeform: ok, quick likbez on 'buildroot'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, others :
asciilifeform: 'buildroot' is this mega-automaton for building cross-compiled os for routers and the like
asciilifeform: it builds, in this order 1) toolchain (using local gcc) for target cpu - gcc and binutils
asciilifeform: 2) kernel
mod6: <+asciilifeform> and i think mod6 had a bunch << naw, don't even own one yet.
asciilifeform: 3) userland (rootfs image for stuffing wherever, nand in our case)
asciilifeform: the thing is mega-configurable and very baroque
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> ben_vulpes mod6 mircea_popescu and other interested parties: << neat
asciilifeform: my notion, as of a month plus ago, was to bake the entire orchestra into a buildroot
trinque: my pogo's promised to me by the 3rd
asciilifeform: that is, the same crosscompiler it builds, that builds kernel etc. will also build bitcoind and its deps
nubbins`: ben_vulpes block=191668 !
asciilifeform: the result ought to be a self-contained bag of shit that, when executed on any reasonable unix, eventually churns out a set of images suitable for flashing to a 'pogo'.
asciilifeform: and yes, this means we freeze gcc, ulibc, etc. in time.
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> mod6 i should stress that *none* of the hardening options are included in that makefile, and it really should not be used for anything other than reference << see, reference y'all
nubbins`: S-CBOS
nubbins`: i like it
ben_vulpes: it pins the protocol
asciilifeform: there we go
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes gets.
ben_vulpes: it's a subtle rapier, not a thing for use in anger.
ben_vulpes: leastaways no time soon.
asciilifeform: little secret re: 'in anger' - ada doesn't need an os...
asciilifeform: (got its own scheduler, aha)
ben_vulpes: k well write a bitcoind then shiva
asciilifeform: i intend to
asciilifeform: but this wasn't a secret, was it
asciilifeform: but it will be some time before anyone is faced with question of what to do with my ver.
ben_vulpes: don't ask me what everyone doesn't know
asciilifeform: i will admit that, with regards to the reference version (let's call it 'traditional') i am especially interested in a tandem-operable variant
ben_vulpes: tandem-operable?
asciilifeform: that is, one which (or, even better, its subcomponents) can be ran in lockstep with another nominally-equivalent program
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: imagine you're mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: i do this regularly, but in what scenario today?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: and one of the folks here (not guaranteed that it'll be me) writes a spiffy 'ab initio' bitcoind
trinque: right, you'll want to check them against each other before making the leap
trinque: if you ever actually leap
asciilifeform: trinque: because of the difficulty, and ultimately the very real practical limits of programmatic proof, tandem is likely our fate for many years.
asciilifeform: or at least the fate of truly serious folks with much to lose
trinque: asciilifeform: will also be useful to out any fuckery of the phoundation client later down the chain
asciilifeform: (i for one will happily jump with the parachute i packed for self. but my carcass isn't worth especially much)
ben_vulpes: i don't understand what's so special about 'tandem operable'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: good question:
nubbins`: there's no POSIX standard for bitcoin
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you *built* a chute?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the implication is that various internals are accessible, and flow can be stopped
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not literally
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: referring to a tradition in certain armies where men are expected to wrap own parachute
asciilifeform: and sign it
asciilifeform: before it is used
asciilifeform: 'i packed this. --mr grunt'
ben_vulpes: right.
ben_vulpes: gotcha.
asciilifeform: then, if they find a pancake, there is no question of 'whodunit'
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> you can't postpone everything until everything else just like you can't have everything louder than everything else. << i think i found where this started
asciilifeform: (fwiw, my father informs me that this custom was unknown in his unit, and only expert was trusted with wrapping chutes)
nubbins`: whoever survived the first time they tried the signatures was deemed an expert and dispersed throughout the other units
ben_vulpes: hyuuu
asciilifeform: the photo mats randomly posted today is, incidentally, a picturesque metaphor for what we're doing.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 19:20:12; mats: pictured: one partially disassembled hellfire missile
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 what do you two figure is a realistic timeline for "bitcoind version that doesn't allocate memory without checks and so doesn't crash in THAT particular way" ? << this actually raises the all-important question of priority list
ben_vulpes: ah hey check it out!
ben_vulpes: i get to strike #1 off the foundation todo list!
ben_vulpes: Goals:
ben_vulpes: 1. Cut a build
nubbins`: woop
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: guess what #2 is
nubbins`: jam it on a pogo!
nubbins` zips lips, raises hand
ben_vulpes: nubbins`?
nubbins`: spoke outta turn!
ben_vulpes: i'm calling on you lol
ben_vulpes: and no, it's not pogo
asciilifeform hasn't a clue
ben_vulpes: bastard block fix.
nubbins`: YEAH!
ben_vulpes: nubbins` pre-release regression testing is pretty dumb-dumb right now
ben_vulpes: build
ben_vulpes: sync with mainnet
ben_vulpes: well, send *to*
asciilifeform: eh i know it isn't 'sexy' but don't forget the seed list.
ben_vulpes: then send *from*
asciilifeform: the one that's in there now is unusable.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: right hang on let me diddle this text for a second
nubbins`: we'll need more seeds
asciilifeform: and did the dns seed snip ever get merged ?
ben_vulpes: maybe?
asciilifeform: aha so it's pointing straight at phoundation's dns
ben_vulpes checks turdolator
asciilifeform: they can send the whole lot of us to dev/null
nubbins`: i don't think so
nubbins`: almost certainly not, no
ben_vulpes: anyone who runs without -connect is asking for it in the arse.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:21:10; trinque: up to the operator to deploy updates later?
ben_vulpes: kark its breeks lol
ben_vulpes: what does that even *mean* asciilifeform?
mircea_popescu: <forget it, user can load new brew like he loaded the original ois.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:29:57; asciilifeform: at the very minimum, development units ought to have it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually he can't
mircea_popescu: that's my point.
mircea_popescu: serviceable 19 dollar units ? gtfo.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if 'humane' can open shell when that programmable button near the jack is pressed
mircea_popescu: once they make a 4gb unit for ~25 we'll think about it ?
ben_vulpes: << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list, attn asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, mod6, nubbins`, decimation, trinque et al
asciilifeform: personally what i'd do is look for and verify foundation gpg sig on tarball on sd card when button pressed
asciilifeform: and no other behaviour
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:33:41; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu iirc had some
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and now you gotta add gpg and debug it and srsly...
mircea_popescu: forget it, you want to upgrade get a new unit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gpg fits handily on the nand
ben_vulpes: heh i like that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if these were still made and we could parachute them around the world - that'd be one thing
asciilifeform: but they aren't
asciilifeform: and we haven't so many.
mircea_popescu: so then we buy more.
asciilifeform: and getting physical objects from one place to another is still pretty hard.
mircea_popescu: no dude. you're trying to raise the engineering bill by 1000s of dollah to save pennies.
assbot: 1 Pallet of PogoPlug Personal Cloud, New Condition, 100 Units, Retail $2,100, LaVergne, TN, PLT186057 | Closes: Oct 16, 2014 12:00:00 PM PDT | Essex B2B Liquidations ... ( )
mircea_popescu: then you complain that no time and stuff. srsly.
nubbins`: $4ea!
nubbins`: shame
mircea_popescu: nubbins` can you store a pellet ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rolling in gpg1 is 1000s ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu not as easily as a box of tees 8)
asciilifeform: wrong pogo!!!
mircea_popescu: ah yeah not the right kind
asciilifeform: or wait
mircea_popescu: it's the no disk one innit ?
asciilifeform: -may be- the right
nubbins`: looks like blue logo
nubbins`: no sata
asciilifeform: with previous type of box
asciilifeform: i see purple logo
asciilifeform: but blue box
asciilifeform: go figure
nubbins`: not sealed
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:35:44; asciilifeform: i was considering lasering mine
nubbins`: anyway auction was last oct
asciilifeform: pictures on boxes suggest no sata
asciilifeform: (my boxes have an arrow pointing to the lid, 'removable and has sata')
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:37:57; nubbins`: anyone here have a lead on custom injection-molded plastics?
asciilifeform: these - no
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you have a favourite classical tarball of gpg, please consider sign and post it (with disclaimer similar to your collectible 0.5.3 tarball on listserv)
mircea_popescu: it's not even just that. gotta make sure it correctly takes and verifies the sigs now. etc etc.
mircea_popescu: ok, im redefinining my addictives list
asciilifeform: we already all hang from that particular parachute!
mircea_popescu: it's not just opioidis and nubbins`, it's also overengineering
asciilifeform: if it is used in the exact form we are accustomed to - i see no issue with it
nubbins`: you can't get enough of me 8)
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:46:57; ben_vulpes: i do this regularly, but in what scenario today?
nubbins`: if you wanted to do the acrylic slab + posts thing like the bitseed or w/e node
nubbins`: you could put whatever lid on the pogo you wanted
nubbins`: ditch the case altogether
nubbins`: dat dust tho
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ...overengineering << 'Русские долго запрягают, но быстро едут.' << bismarck!
nubbins`: dat added cost
asciilifeform: nubbins`: case holds the heatsink
asciilifeform: through mechanical pressure only
asciilifeform: go and try to run without.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell brendafdez yo you know anyone renting bikes at not retarded tourist prices?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: incidentally, today's log is long enough that some of you may have missed my 'highlights of underhanded crypto contest' summaries.
asciilifeform: do not miss.
nubbins`: slab+post case could hold the heat sink too
asciilifeform: won't regret reading.
nubbins`: until you dropped it on a corner anyway
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it'd be almost less ugly to pour it in cement.
nubbins`: no kidding
asciilifeform: (anyone considering -actually- pouring electronics into cement - remember that it dries exothermically! need cooling)
nubbins`: colored logo could be easily removed
asciilifeform: if anyone does the honour of testing the 'turdel' - please post.
ben_vulpes weeps for log
nubbins`: alf will sleep the sleep of the just
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> seems that's 64 bit only now o.O << ahaha in between this line and my logreading mod6 posted a patch
ben_vulpes: hooray you fiend you
mircea_popescu: was keeping my fingers crossed for it being just you know, two lines and a whistle.
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> we're assholes, yet here we are trying << "a for effort"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (fwiw, my father informs me that this custom was unknown in his unit, and only expert was trusted with wrapping chutes) << Many ground pounders in the extended family, slosest one to using chute at all broke ankle on helachoppa repel
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 349129 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1654 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52321389587.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 11.99515
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 00:37:43; assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 06:08:33; ben_vulpes: <decimation> I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket << why bother with expensive turbomachinery? just use solid propellants...
ben_vulpes: it's just disposable.
ben_vulpes: and you can take fifty of them with you in a backpack...anywhere.
assbot: ButterNubber comments on An entire US school district is having its whole network held hostage for a 500 bitcoin ransom. The FBI and Homeland Security are getting involved. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: alternatively, they coul;d just ditch shit-o-soft...
BingoBoingo: Or Coindesk/buzz could stop inflating the typical numbers ransomeware demands
ben_vulpes: just had a "don't blame the hackers" conversation.
ben_vulpes: "two decades of malicious microsoft sales. you have to expect the attacks, and the schools are simply the widest-open targets."
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Schools used to tend towards Mac fo a reason and that was Nvir vs all those damn DOS & Windows virii
ben_vulpes: okay i'm logged
ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: keep it up
ben_vulpes: me, i have beds to burrow into
BingoBoingo: SO, brainstorm, could anything real be within 4x as fast as fundnations headers only?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have no backing for that brainturd. Just inundating el braino with tequila given seekrit mission otd.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:41:46; mats: ive personally confirmed with schneier - in person - and have second-hand confirmations by others who have interacted with recipients of leaks
mircea_popescu: << the "tor stinks" evidence is in the public record.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:51:20; mats: look, i'm putting my skepticism on the record. if there was evidence, it'd look like 'Tor Stinks' or the slides from Der Spiegel's work on the Belgacom pwnage. i'm not saying that Dual_EC_DRBG doesn't have obvious flaws or that anyone should continue using it, but my skepticism regarding it being an intentional backdoor remains
mircea_popescu: but importantly, your skepticism, while amply affirmed, is not supported by anything else. so you're skeptical of x theory, as an aesthetic matter. good for you. what's that do ?
mircea_popescu: << and more importantly : improductive to try. the guy who we hang if we consider it malice doesn't belong to us anyway. if he were in the wot maybe the point would be remotely worht considering
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:54:16; fluffypony: I think it's very hard to tell the difference between mistake and malice.
mircea_popescu: but for the fate of a random usg muppet ? dude, burn him down, his name won't even be remembered.
mircea_popescu: who cares ?
mircea_popescu: << all the excitedness about it recently re bitcoin does make it look suspicious.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 14:55:51; fluffypony: DJB believes secp256k1 is broken
BingoBoingo: More suspicious than niggers.o as a library function?
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, Daniel J. Bernstein is merely going by ec2, which is based on cm field discriminants / laders and indistinguishability
mircea_popescu: none of these seem, at least superficially, to be directly relevant to the usecase.
mircea_popescu: particularly the ladder... so it's not a montgommery curve. so what.
BingoBoingo: DJB also has inherent paranoia to the point to the point of lactation may be a substitute for grains of salt
assbot: Risperdal (risperidone) & Invega (paliperidone) - Crazy Talk: The Crazymeds Forum ... ( )
nubbins`: <gmaxwell> ugh: ... we removed bitnodes as a dnsseed in bitcoin core because they kept engaging in sketchy behavior, and IMO dishonest. (e.g. we'd ask them to stop connecting at super high frequency to monitor every node in the network, and they said they would.. and a month later they instead had a perpetual
assbot: Bitnodes will be releasing plug & play Bitcoin node hardware mid-2015! : Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the cm field issue is probably the most concerning, and if there's a baked in backdoor (something like, say, nsa is able to directly see through maybe 10% of all keys ever generated ?) that's where it'd be, that 3= -1 * 3≈ -2^1.6 property it shares with weak curves like bn(2,254) etc.
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list << it vanished, dpaste sux
assbot: Not Found ... ( )
mircea_popescu: well alternatively a) deedbot b) set the damned timer.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:01:59; asciilifeform: yes, some crypto designers make mistake, they are good people, sure, whatever. i will borrow from slavoj žižek and say then 'we put them to a good wall, shoot them with a good bullet from a good gun, and bury them in with a good shove in the good earth' - since sure, they are good people.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:05:28; asciilifeform: that from -tolerasty- comes poettering & crew.
midnightmagic: BingoBoingo: sorry.. what? lactation and salt paranoia?
mircea_popescu: << a request not unlike "so you found drugs in his car ? but where's the notebook ? no notebook, no conviction!"
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:13:34; mats: show me the motherfucking evidence! you mean to tell me these bureaucrats decided not to commit anything to paper this go-around?
Adlai: re: montgomery ladder, you can implement constant-time secp256k1, but it's a pita
mircea_popescu: Adlai it is.
BingoBoingo: midnightmagic: Oh, I was jsut supposing risperidone as an alternative to grains of salt
mircea_popescu: not sure it's particularly a point of interest for bitcoin for that matter.
Adlai: (this seems to be djb's real reason behind discounting curves without a *convenient* constant-time algorithm)
mircea_popescu: only on THAT one score.
mircea_popescu: 256k1 fails VERY hard on what are more relevant criteria.
trinque: nubbins` | <+ben_vulpes> << current contents of foundation hopes and dreams and todos list << it vanished, dpaste sux << had the tab
assbot: Not Found ... ( )
mircea_popescu: FIRST B-A LEAK!11
trinque: boom
BingoBoingo: Someone pkg_add for qntra and claim words/shares
nubbins`: aww yeah
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 15:35:34; nubbins`: this place has done more to fundamentally change my thought processes than six years at university
mircea_popescu: buncha cultists.
nubbins`: i know, and all they gave me was a
BingoBoingo has an M.I.Forget.All.The.Letters
ben_vulpes: << myup, fat-fingered the expiration
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:22:37; mats: the claim i'm most concerned about is that the weakness was engineered by NSA, and that, by having approved it, NIST was complicit, thus casting doubt on all other NIST standards
mircea_popescu: nist specifically is hostis humani generis due to that and similar mishaps.
BingoBoingo: Everything about NIST that isn't pure time sucks
BingoBoingo: Even then Rubidium standards are cheap. Run Ntpd as Stratum 1.
mircea_popescu: << no "figuring out" is contemplated or desired. that division is desired, so that the loafers can dangle.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:27:38; mats: leaving us with no real basis for actually figuring out the situation.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 290 @ 0.00347999 = 1.0092 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the point of a functioning intellect isn't to make one one with the universe. the point of a functioning intellect is to make it impossible for the universe to make itself one with one.
mircea_popescu: as in, i don't think so i can go wallow in the mud. i think so the mud can't come wallowing on me.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> as in, i don't think so i can go wallow in the mud. i think so the mud can't come wallowing on me. << I wasted years 19 to 27 with the contrapositive here pls don't make the mistake
nubbins`: sleep
mircea_popescu: lol check out pete_dushenski writing lots
BingoBoingo: !up brendafdez
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm pround of pete
mircea_popescu: << a possible explanation is that jamaica has been turned by its reputation for "place for middle aged white women to come have a brown baby" into a very specific sort of strip joint.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:47:19; pete_dushenski: on one end is disinterest, a la paris or w/e, on the other end is entitlement
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't complain that the strippers don't wait on tables properly, would you ? as a woman ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: well ty
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you wouldn't complain that the strippers don't wait on tables properly, would you ? as a woman ? << Serious labor problem here in the Middle West. Strippers aren't table servers
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: suppose not.
mircea_popescu: << this is a discogent antiargument because people here don't generally dig ditches for a living. obviously someone who leverages doesn't revert to data entry as a job.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 16:50:29; nubbins`: how much of your own time do you waste on maybes?
brendafdez: I was just approved to join the linux for women mailing list. In the welcome email I'm both reminded that 'what happens on list stays on list' (no archives or sharing) and they also say literally "You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: XGx4#KmI#HeF%P7C^ Normally, Mailman will remind you of your mailing list passwords once every month, alt
brendafdez: hough you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you."
brendafdez: I like it when they tell me right away that their security is crap. So I don't have to wonder. Here, hashed what?
pete_dushenski: sweet, sweet leverage
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, turns out that bitcoin atms can actually make a buck!
pete_dushenski: ;;seen adamobrien
gribble: I have not seen adamobrien.
pete_dushenski: or what was it...
pete_dushenski: ;;seen adam_obrien
gribble: adam_obrien was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 48 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <adam_obrien> I have to run here, if any of you need Bitcoin give me a ping
pete_dushenski: ^we had coffee today and apparently one of his lamassus did CAD$25k in transactions last month. at 8% commission
mircea_popescu: << every idiot's approach works well enough for him. shit, mr lazer handycraftsman's approach workes well enough for him
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 17:04:54; nubbins`: anyway tl;dr their approach works well enough for them
mircea_popescu: and for the forum retards at that.
pete_dushenski: he has a couple other too, none do quite that well but i was reasonably impressed that he hadn't lost his shirt
pete_dushenski: probably helps that cavirtex is tubed.
mircea_popescu: << clearly shot down by the italian separatists under berlusconi
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 17:14:37; pete_dushenski: this is assuming it wasn't hacked, shot down, etc.
pete_dushenski: 'clearly' because ... ?
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the world works.
mircea_popescu: italy is massing army at the french border
mircea_popescu: herpity-derp
mircea_popescu: those imperialistic dreams of the papal states were apparently never extinguished!
pete_dushenski: well i for one would like to see what the argentinian in the big house could muster as far as a military goes
mircea_popescu: << o look, overweight, impotent, irrelvant and fundamentally cowardly white middleaged men clining to the unwarranted pretense of relevance.
mircea_popescu: srsly guise, you do all that ?
pete_dushenski: he's in far better condition to charge into battle than the hitler youth opa
mircea_popescu: i bet your mom cares.
pete_dushenski: ha, just read that too
mircea_popescu: battle i dunno about, but off tune melee for a few hours - sure.
pete_dushenski: symbolically sufficient
mircea_popescu: ascii_field:
mircea_popescu: 'According to reporting, "1.6 percent of developers earn more than the other 98.4 percent combined. And the bottom 47 percent of engineers earn less than $100 per month." << o chjecxk it out asciilifeform! as jurov sayz, clearly this isn't working o.O
mircea_popescu: note that out of that 1.6%, about 1.5% is state-sponsored crapolade a la zynga. leaving the other 0.1% with an accidental 55k this year, which is barely enough to you know, pay rent.
mircea_popescu: and next year...
brendafdez: such inequality
pete_dushenski: ^the 'gold rush'
mircea_popescu: well you don't win the lottery each year.
pete_dushenski: sorta like mining btc on your laptop
mircea_popescu: << see! it bothers you when usians do it. somehow, orlov-tolerant.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:03:12; ascii_field: or do words have no meaning to him
mircea_popescu: nationalist!
pete_dushenski: nationalist workerbee. best defense against meta problem!
BingoBoingo is tone deaf
BingoBoingo did not know I was tone deaf until admited to US college as music specialist
pete_dushenski: you'll just have to trust me that i'm a decent singer then.
BingoBoingo is great at karaoke though
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo most people that i've seen karaoke fit this boring midwestern 30something so-so woman type.
mircea_popescu: to the point in my head it connotes that, like bingo connotes old jewish women
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo most people that i've seen karaoke fit this boring midwestern 30something so-so woman type. << But that's easy mode to getting your dick wet. It works
pete_dushenski: cheek-pinching connotes stereotypical old jewish women for me
pete_dushenski: real ones: schmetten torte
BingoBoingo: I dunno that I've ever met an old jewish woman
mircea_popescu: << i spent prolly 3-500 bucks on my foray in ipad gaming
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:15:00; funkenstein_: i refuse to admit that any creature would pay for an app
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: some are sneaky. you may have met one and not known it.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I've met plenty of young jews and gotten along fine. The mythic old jews are something else
assbot: borat at jews house - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:21:31; trinque: best thing about gossipd is probably going to be writing software around it
pete_dushenski: << so is this where you, like, finally !rate me or something ?
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 06:59:23; BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm pround of pete
mircea_popescu: !rated pete_dushenski
assbot: You rated user pete_dushenski on 08-Jul-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Pimp..
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I thought I rated you earlier. If not leave a not. I'm too pickled atm to access important keys. Insufficiently skilled at the knife.
brendafdez: Scared that drugs would work?
mircea_popescu: << there's exactly one field where payware is the only weay to go, and that's games.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 18:24:31; ascii_field: nubbins`: payware costing money is by far the least significant problem with it, in my experience
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo please to be less pickled :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00021785 = 1.3507 BTC [-]
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: lol there's little more amusing than seeing people try various fringe ideologies on b-a.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That would involve untrusted 3rd parties
mircea_popescu: dudes you should totally not eat meat and use free software!
pete_dushenski: or not eat software and use free meat.
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: Certain classes of drugs have a history of being very effectual on me, but most drugs dropped in drink I have a strongly trained cross tolerance to.
mircea_popescu: i do use free meat!
mircea_popescu: uh i mean... i freely use meat.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: well, i'll bug you another time i guess. i just tend to strike when the iron is hot, even if the iron is also blackout wasted.
Adlai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 237.14, vol: 21462.80141475 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 235.98, vol: 15570.03822 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 236.01, vol: 76464.99214271 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 244.0, vol: 54.30174294 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 233.579688, vol: 199715.62230000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 240.0, vol: 37.55828405 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 242.7126, vol: 148.46250756 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: But when the backbody is emitting in the IR spectrum>
pete_dushenski: hopefully the front isn't ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00021785 = 1.416 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up badon
pete_dushenski: "Jordan has signed a $10bn deal with Russia to build the kingdom's first nuclear power plant, with two 1,000-megawatt reactors in the country's north." << someone is actually building nuclear reactors these days.
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> "Jordan has signed a $10bn deal with Russia to build the kingdom's first nuclear power plant, with two 1,000-megawatt reactors in the country's north." << someone is actually building nuclear reactors these days. << /me remembers when King Hussein was the "Good Guy" (TM)
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 20:01:21; thestringpuller: ascii_field: snore for now, but if they start selling, they lower barrier to fork.
pete_dushenski: i should say, 'someone is importing reactor designs'
mircea_popescu: you don't seriously imagine the rasbperry pi 150 dollar node a) can achieve critical mass or b) can support gavincoin ?
mircea_popescu: a is a non starter because their demo is reddit demo = poor people. it has to be free or no dice.
mircea_popescu: b is a non starter because srsly, do the maffs.
mircea_popescu: all that thing's doing is a more expensive, less useful, bitcoin node.
pete_dushenski: i'm guessing that china, russia, india reactors are in-house worx
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not so long ago eh.
BingoBoingo: I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous because how much can it cost USG to rack 3 tons of banana pi's
pete_dushenski: except gov't doesn't do economical things like that
pete_dushenski: it's nature is to do uneconomical things.
BingoBoingo wonders if anyone else here remembers when the Library marketed LOCKSS solution was based on OBSD
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dangerous doing what.
BingoBoingo: When did I say dangerous in this convo tonight?
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous <
BingoBoingo: I was just asking if people remember a distributed memory safe system beign abandoned.
mircea_popescu: and holy shit this logging up took forever.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo mebbe i misread.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> <BingoBoingo> I support thestringpuller's idea that it could be dangerous < << Ah, I'm just thinking he might have a better measure of the enemy's pulse.
mircea_popescu: better than whom, and why would that be ?
mircea_popescu: dude look at that graph, mpoe fell of a cliff in slow motion.
mircea_popescu: and it follows the bitcoin curve to boot!
mircea_popescu: someone been playing teh big bad wolf ? i hope i haven't disappointed by not being impressed ?
BingoBoingo: ''vishnuplug
BingoBoingo feels liek ButtBetting Soon
pete_dushenski: alright gang, off to dream about the next papal wars.
mircea_popescu: it totally was a puk missile!
mircea_popescu: cazalla im not so sure about "differnent site". in any case same quantcast codes, so...
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla im not so sure about "differnent site". in any case same quantcast codes, so... << SHHHHHH.... same atm
mircea_popescu: so they should be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18950 @ 0.00021896 = 4.1493 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up beetcoin
BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve
BingoBoingo: !up gabridome
brendafdez: <BingoBoingo> Feel free to ask in chan why Bingo loves the Motorola 68K chips
brendafdez: if you ask me to ask ;)
BingoBoingo: lol, because I can play mario on my calculator
brendafdez: i had a TI-86 to cheat in school
BingoBoingo: skipped it for the -89
BingoBoingo: The -89 did algebra if you put it in right...
brendafdez: i never got algebra, it was like as far as i can write notes, the calculator is ok for me
BingoBoingo: Algebra can have a lot of meanings
brendafdez: i'll feel dumb discussing it here, now i regret moving to chan :P
BingoBoingo: Algebra spans a spectrum from HS math to Gimme meth Imma not Erdos
assbot: Wally Does Economic Babble Talk - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2015-03-25 | Dilbert by Scott Adams ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Wally knows,
BingoBoingo: Wally fucking knows!
brendafdez: what i know is that i failed every single exam in my life which had word algebra somewhere
brendafdez: consistent results, always miserable utter failure
brendafdez: back then i thoguth i was oing to study engineering but this made me change my mind and say, ok... maybe law will be easier, less numbers, no algebra. Sadly no calculator to cheat either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27473 @ 0.00022178 = 6.093 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo thought was going to be mathmagician, downgraded to teacher, to lawyer, to librarian
brendafdez: i ended up just being a pretend bitcoiner
brendafdez: didn't last more than a year in law school either, although it was in fact easier than math
BingoBoingo nevar made it from applied to law student in spite of 178 on LSat assumed to naturally shady to be a lawyer
cazalla: wru scoopbot
davout: jurov: kek
mircea_popescu: o check it out, a davout
davout: yeah, touch me i'm french
mircea_popescu: can i kiss you you're french ?
davout: no tongue plox
mircea_popescu: no, tongue is british.
davout: fish & chips is british, all the rest was invented by the french
mircea_popescu: haha, dilbert does butts now ?!
cazalla: i hear brendafdez has got a baby in
cazalla: hop to it, your shares await brendafdez
davout: me gusta
brendafdez: <brendafdez> I always take a long time before I do anything, so as to be sure that I won't fail to disappoint everyone involved.
brendafdez: <BingoBoingo> Ah
mircea_popescu: brendafdez better get out of the defensive shell of stupid and work your butt off, i think.
cazalla: i'm catching up on logs so i'm sure i'll get to that discussion soon
mircea_popescu: wasn't in there i dun think ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, oh? i thought she was quoting herself from an earlier conversation or something
BingoBoingo a liter in deeper than when I last touched the skunkswork project
mircea_popescu: prolly private.
BingoBoingo: What isn't?
mircea_popescu: cazalla i was thinking btw, on the general principle of translations. what do you think of a model where translations, be they en to es, or es to en or cn to en or whatever they may be count for half the shares ?
BingoBoingo: It isn't like I plan to battle syphillis anytime soon again
mircea_popescu: also, articles written by drunk people only counted for 13.37% of normal wordage?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla i was thinking btw, on the general principle of translations. what do you think of a model where translations, be they en to es, or es to en or cn to en or whatever they may be count for half the shares ? << +10%vote unless that is horribly uneconomical
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00022406 = 6.6098 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> also, articles written by drunk people only counted for 13.37% of normal wordage? << Also totes fair
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's +10%vote mean ?
davout: mircea_popescu: half the shares of the original article? or half the shares of the translated piece? i'd say the former makes more sense
mircea_popescu: shit. languages are so fucking difficult.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo what's +10%vote mean ? << You and cazalla are 20% a piece I throw my 10% behind translations, because we aren't fucking Cointelegrah with seperate US and UK press releases
mircea_popescu: the first time today i sat here and couldn't figure out a problem was when i tried to parse davout's proposal. brain just can't cope.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, they have indian and greek too now!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so you're thinking translation more like 2/3 ?
mircea_popescu: davout how do you figure which makes more sense ?
BingoBoingo: I thin translation is between 1/2 to 2/3rds. A full 1 if from strange to Eng
cazalla: i really don't see the issue with matching it 1:1 on the basis translation is useful, es not as much as cn but still
davout: mircea_popescu: some languages are much shorter than others, dutch is much denser than french for example
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the thing is, if you give them parity you'll end up with you know, hungarian translation of 500 qntra articles diluting you to shit.
cazalla: but then seeing i can only speaka da english , i am prolly not qualified to "opine" on such matters lol
mircea_popescu: cazalla so then let them be 1:1 but only allow basically es, en, cn and mebbe portuguese ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo the thing is, if you give them parity you'll end up with you know, hungarian translation of 500 qntra articles diluting you to shit << Editors discretion. Fucking hungarian sucks, not a lang
mircea_popescu: it's as much a language as finish is!
BingoBoingo: Finish not a lang either, it is a goal
mircea_popescu: and before you dismiss that, you should see what fucking tits & ass lean tall blonde stuff they produce!
cazalla: why would we want anything other than spanish and chinesey?
mircea_popescu: cazalla so basically, extended cultural imperialism ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i could go withj that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I hurd they were on US feminist diabeetus diet
cazalla: maybe arabic
cazalla: but other than that, those are top 3 next to english i assume
mircea_popescu: but prolly portuguese > spanish, on account of... well... brazil is like > south america.
cazalla: oh russian.. here we go, give an inch..
mircea_popescu: russian, japanese right ? then all the arabs will get pissy because why do we pick the one or the other ?
BingoBoingo: I could see placing spanish well before portugese because fuck brazil if they aren't waxing
mircea_popescu: but i don't think we can go "all bitcoin happens in english fuck you"
BingoBoingo: Not at all
Adlai: put it to shareholder votes. want more incentive for translations in your language? gotta pay to have a say, like in 'real' politics
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo brazil is waxing yo. and btw, general point : girls get their tit implants age 16 down here.
BingoBoingo: I think we focus on trade languages of En ES and Fu
mircea_popescu: it's like a bat mitzvah gift.
brendafdez: tit implants :)
mircea_popescu: Adlai how are the shareholders paying exactly ?
Adlai: those who want more compensation for translators to some language, must buy shares in order to have their voices heard/regarded by the editors
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's totally how that'll work.
brendafdez: <mircea_popescu> brendafdez better get out of the defensive shell of stupid and work your butt off, i think. << oops ;)
Adlai: (or they earn their shares the usual way)
cazalla: <BingoBoingo> I could see placing spanish well before portugese because fuck brazil if they aren't waxing <<< so muff is ok ya know
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I am totally fine with the En language space surrendering except as a pidgin used in trade. If you let a single slant language into the acceptable trading space though. I sense trouble. Don't know of, but anticipate
cazalla: some even
BingoBoingo: Muff is greap
BingoBoingo: Muff gives my beard something to socialize with
mircea_popescu: cazalla he just doesn't want hair in the asshole is all.
cazalla: but they poop from there, so i don't care, not going near butthole either way
mircea_popescu: some women wash.
BingoBoingo: You affraid of the poop muff?
mircea_popescu: fun fact : most large felines don't know how to shit as infants, so the mother licks their asshole to stimulate bowel movements.
mircea_popescu: think your life sucks ? at least you're not mom jaguar.
cazalla: i can just see you as the romanian vers of it's only smellz
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, works in constipated human infants too.)
BingoBoingo: Same kinda happens for primates, you ever seen reddit and momma chimp
brendafdez: black kiss, just what the doctor ordered
mircea_popescu: ordured, but anyway.
BingoBoingo: I just think it is too early to surrender to the chicoms. Even though I could prolly bang out a qntra.chicom in 45 minutes if I wasn't so pickled atm.
mircea_popescu: << /me thinks back, realises that... you know what ? i've never actually failed an exam in my life.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 09:13:35; brendafdez: what i know is that i failed every single exam in my life which had word algebra somewhere
BingoBoingo still takes the LSAT on commision for select bidders
BingoBoingo is sure most people's best chance at passing the bar is hiring me to ident as them through law school
BingoBoingo: I've actually made this offer before.
BingoBoingo has never scored lower than 176/180 on the LSAT. I am the full package law school Fast Forward button.
mircea_popescu: so you could get me a law degree just in time for lawsky being extradited to serenissima jurisdiction so i can da myself personally ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8543 @ 0.00021886 = 1.8697 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00021643 = 2.2509 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pretty much, so long as you offer me an identify that does not have a history of long term use of lamotrinine of chloro-amphetamines
mircea_popescu: you should prolly make that offer in chinese.
BingoBoingo: I prolly should. Not enough people take it up in English.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00021505 = 1.0968 BTC [-]
cazalla: BingoBoingo, ya know, big business down under in writing papers for uni students, big drama other week regarding it
assbot: MyMaster essay cheating scandal: More than 70 university students face suspension ... ( )
BingoBoingo: cazalla: You never write for students, you BE the students
cazalla: sounds like a lot of effort
cazalla: how well can a student pay you for pretending to be them?
BingoBoingo: enough
BingoBoingo: Do they, no
cazalla: and good luck getting rolling down drunk and turning up in person, at least you can do online tests and write for them at home while drunk
mircea_popescu: cazalla he probably only does it for the free rape
mircea_popescu: "phteven with a ph did it!"
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Have I ever told you about my GRE story?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i don't even know what GRE is so, no
mircea_popescu: let some dude show up for you in exams today, be cited for 198 gang rapes next tuesday
cazalla: but if it's you turning up blind drunk and acing a test, i'd believe it
cazalla: lolol
mircea_popescu: america!
mircea_popescu: also, beneficial identity theft!
BingoBoingo: <cazalla> but if it's you turning up blind drunk and acing a test, i'd believe it << Since 1998 when the injun store stopped carding me
cazalla: BingoBoingo, ya know i use to get carded when i was 16, but i was smart enough to know the guy working at the bottle shop probably couldn't subtract my age from the current year, so he would glance at my provisional drivers licence and ring up my drinks no probs
cazalla: my dob i means to say
mircea_popescu: this "carding" thing...
BingoBoingo has alway done the deception thing
cazalla: means something else where you're from eh mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu had a drink at his junior high prom. which was held in a bar. because romanians didn't actually give a shit.
mircea_popescu: the other kids didn't, because kids.
BingoBoingo: * mircea_popescu had a drink at his junior high prom. which was held in a bar. because romanians didn't actually give a shit. << Wait Wut, you only had one drink at prom? Junior year I was trying to keep pace with Anya.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, ease up, he's a light drinker
mircea_popescu: that's kinda the thing, if it's not a big deal it just... isn't a big deal.
mircea_popescu: cazalla heh notrly. my high mark is putting away something over a liter of 50% moonshine and then walking out.
mircea_popescu: i suspek that makes me a heavy drinker, at least at the time.
BingoBoingo: Drink is totally not a big deal. In the same way standardized tests in the US are not a big deal. The cost to pass maximally is trivial.
mircea_popescu: but in truth i dun really drink like i used to.
cazalla: i suspek gypies sell non-alcoholic wine to young romanian men as american's sell oregano to the teens :P
mircea_popescu: i never saw non-alcoholic wine in yurp.
mircea_popescu: real thing too abundant.
cazalla: yeah my opa use to make it, locked him in the cellar once, such a hiding for that one
cazalla: the funny thing is, i could've left him in there but i was so frightened that i opened it so that he could beat me
cazalla: prob had war flash backs or something, he went fkn bananas
mircea_popescu: romania (at least the nw, where i'm from) is all about this particular plum distilate.
mircea_popescu: most respectable older men run their own stills, and they usually leak and are in basements
mircea_popescu: so when it's firing time... buncha very drunk dudes that swear they didn't drink a drop
cazalla: banned here, unless for extracting essential oils
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00021789 = 6.4713 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: romania (at least back in the day) was this place where nothing could be banned.
cazalla: and whenever some dudes die from the methanol they produced, they make a big deal of it in the media to warn of the dangers of diy at home
mircea_popescu: the very notion that the govt would tell you what to do or not do... lol.
mircea_popescu: there's no methanol in this process.
mircea_popescu: actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol. it's ancient and perfectly safe at that.
BingoBoingo: Clean known moonsine stills here
BingoBoingo: From corn though
cazalla: mircea_popescu, must be making something else then, i have nfi, just hear in the media now and again
mircea_popescu: i think you gotta boil wood before you get crap like that.
cazalla: "Initial reports about the four men's methanol poisoning suggest it occurred when they tried to concoct grappa, a grape-based brandy."
cazalla: prob for the best i don't bottle my own, i'd be in perpetual state of drunkedness
mircea_popescu: they probably tried to "concoct grappa" out of office chairs or something.
mircea_popescu: seeing how one hundred thousand people made their own for decade upon decade without ill effect.
cazalla: well, if one is going to eat plastic food, may as well drink plastic too
mircea_popescu: anywya, if memory serves there's a good 10-20 degrees differential between ethanol and methanol boiling points.
cazalla: anyway, zzz for me
mircea_popescu: even if you start with a 50-50 mixture, keep the still open at ~75 degrees for half an hour, then you can just let it burn and collect the result.
mircea_popescu: nn c man
jurov: heh. my parents themselves started to give me wine.. at 15 or so :D
mircea_popescu: sounds about right.
jurov: <mircea_popescu> actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol << wait what???
BingoBoingo: My parents unlocked the scotch at 12
mircea_popescu: to which part ?
BingoBoingo: <jurov> <mircea_popescu> actually, distilling fermented fruit can not yield methanol << wait what??? << It totally can
jurov: i have held in my hand plum methanol, wtf if mircea up to
jurov: *is
BingoBoingo: jurov: He has an idealistic image of the old country
mircea_popescu: no dude, it's just fucking rare.
mircea_popescu: in the single digit ppm.
BingoBoingo: I've drank 98+ proof corn whiskey aged right with minimal fusile alcohols. Everyone wants their tradition to be the saint
assbot: Home Distillation of Alcohol (Homemade Alcohol to Drink) ... ( )
jurov: "for example apple juice can have 0.2-0.3% methanol, or if derived from pulp by enzymatic degradation, the levels can be 2 to 3 times higher."
mircea_popescu: jurov there's two things : one, what you use and how you ferment it. two, how you distil.
mircea_popescu: but historically, methanol is "wood alcohol". ie, if you try to distil roadkill and old boots, you get a lot of it.
jurov: yes but that's very different from "can not yield"
mircea_popescu: otherwise, properly fermented plums specifically are so and so.
mircea_popescu: well i was talking of the traditional process as used, not of whatever random strange one may try.
mircea_popescu: you know these things get highly traditional / fixated.
mircea_popescu: but in any case : methanol has significant lower boiling point. which, again, means that even if you start with an equal part mixture, if you distil correctly you take it all out.
jurov: yes
mircea_popescu: well so that.
BingoBoingo is awfuly sure unregulated corn distillation products self has consumed in the past conatained far below te mandated fusile alcohols of the nao
BingoBoingo: If only fissible alcohols were a thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00021505 = 3.258 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20192 @ 0.00021756 = 4.393 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4711 @ 0.00022073 = 1.0399 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5863 @ 0.00022484 = 1.3182 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: According to the 2002/2003 census, 143,167 farms had plum trees bearing fruit covering a total area of 554 km². According to the same census, about 75% of the crop ends up as țuică.
mircea_popescu: romania, 3rd plum producer, after china and serbia
mircea_popescu: (mostly, damsons)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00022792 = 5.8575 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: <mircea_popescu> According to the 2002/2003 census, 143,167 farms had plum trees bearing fruit covering a total area of 554 km². According to the same census, about 75% of the crop ends up as țuică.//only 75%?
mircea_popescu: i think some plums grow feet and run away
danielpbarron: height=296995 vs height=216536
Adlai: so 'eris' is... a database? an application server? does GenDoug support Hybrid-Flex™ blockchains?
danielpbarron: Adlai, it's a block chain with mining restricted by a centrally controlled key
danielpbarron: that is, blocks are only accepted as valid if they meet the difficulty requirement *and* are blessed with the magic key
danielpbarron: and that's supposed to eliminate the need for there being a currency
danielpbarron: to which I ask, why even use a block chain? it's like cloud storage with unneccessary drawbacks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00022821 = 3.9709 BTC [+]
Adlai: decentralization theater :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10104 @ 0.00022497 = 2.2731 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: guess they hope to sell mining equipment with the key baked in
jurov: and thus dip both ends
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18150 @ 0.00022214 = 4.0318 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: !up kyuupichan
kyuupichan: danielpbarron: What do your messages saying "Height H1 vs H2" mean exactly?
danielpbarron: i'm running two pogos, one with a solid state drive, the other with a 5400 rpm drive
danielpbarron: i knew solid state would be faster; just seeing how much faster, and if 5400 rpm drive is a reasonable option
danielpbarron: 22G vs 6.2G
danielpbarron: out of about 40G
danielpbarron: i think it would take about a year for a 5400 rpm drive pogo to sync with the network
danielpbarron: ;;later tell mod6 having some troubles here
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6 looks
danielpbarron: i haven't caught up on the logs yet, maybe these issues were covered already
mod6: So can you explain what you're builing, what version of, what OS, did you change anything? what arch?
mod6: *building
mod6: Did you read this email? << this /should/ work on an x86 arch
mod6: if you tried to build that version of on an ARM arch, then i can see why you had issues.
danielpbarron: yes that's what i used
danielpbarron: i tried it first as is
mod6: what os/arch?
danielpbarron: gentoo x86
mod6: hmm
nubbins`: you installed libssl-dev?
nubbins`: danielpbarron ^
danielpbarron: i don't think so
nubbins`: well that's your problem
nubbins`: emerge dat shit
danielpbarron: emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "libssl-dev".
danielpbarron: i didn't need it last time
nubbins`: headers.h:20:28: fatal error: openssl/buffer.h: No such file or directory
danielpbarron: my pogos are currently running a bitcoind that i compiled myself
nubbins`: does emerge tab-complete?
nubbins`: libssl<tab>
danielpbarron: emerge: Maybe you meant any of these: virtual/libudev, dev-libs/libsolv, dev-libs/libsigsegv?
nubbins`: is buffer.h anywhere on your system>?
nubbins`: might be an include path issue
danielpbarron: i thought this is supposed to download a specific version of ssl and use a local copy
danielpbarron: why should i need to install things on my system?
nubbins`: pastebin your ./
nubbins`: and your bitcoin/src/makefile.unix
nubbins`: heck, skip pastebin and them
nubbins`: openssl is the first dep that should get downloaded and compiled, so if it's halting there it's probably a path issue
mod6: i've never used gentoo before, but if this still a problem/not-resolved by the end of the day, I'll try to setup a new droplet and test the changes there.
nubbins`: danielpbarron here's a snippet from the last chunk of text you shared
nubbins`: -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include -I/home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.5th/ourlibs/include
nubbins`: that's trying to include the same dir three times
nubbins`: which might indicate that it's failing to parse something after /include
danielpbarron: that attempt was using the arm toolchain
nubbins`: i had to modify makefile for osx because all the path stuff wasn't resolving, your gentoo might have similar prob
nubbins`: actually all three of your attempts show the same thing
nubbins`: (might be totally not the issue but worth examining)
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.34, Best ask: 246.48, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 246.46, 24 hour volume: 71535.64113155, 24 hour low: 235.7, 24 hour high: 252.94, 24 hour vwap: None
PeterL: << my brother is ~6 ft tall, but usually slouches so he looks about 5'7
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 04:52:20; mircea_popescu: but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height.
nubbins`: danielpbarron sweet, how about makefile.unix from 5th
PeterL: << I would say most of food is pretty well described by chemistry already
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 04:30:25; mircea_popescu: at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry.
PeterL: and yes, there are chemists who specialize in food chemistry
nubbins`: there were behaviourists who specialized in genetics 8)
PeterL: but are there geneticists that specialize in behaviour?
nubbins`: prolly not since ww2
Adlai: there's a gene for smoking all the way down to the filter
Adlai: which is derpspeak for statistical correlation between certain genotypes, and that phenotype
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14275 @ 0.00022539 = 3.2174 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> to which I ask, why even use a block chain? it's like cloud storage with unneccessary drawbacks << this pretty much
mircea_popescu: <jurov> guess they hope to sell mining equipment with the key baked in << wouldn't this necessarily leak it ?
jurov: no rake is forever
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00022567 = 6.1721 BTC [+]
nubbins`: danielpbarron: add these two lines to your, right below "export LDFLAGS=" at the bottom
nubbins`: echo $OURLIBS
mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I would say most of food is pretty well described by chemistry already << you have no idea.
nubbins`: echo $OPENSSL_LIB_PATH
nubbins`: then run ./ again
PeterL: you think there is some mysterious undescribed part of food?
nubbins`: actually maybe preface with: echo "looky loo"
nubbins`: or other marker
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only thing chemistry describes about food is that it has no hope in hell of describing it, and here's some alternatives that 90% of people can't distinguish
nubbins` points out that "artificial flavor" and "natural flavor" can be chemically the same molecule, but must be labelled according to origin
mircea_popescu: PeterL didn't we have the discussion with the complexity of aminoacids ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` this "chemically the same molecule" ... i can distinguish peppers and capsein.
mircea_popescu: now go make me a pickled cucumber.
nubbins`: i can distinguish marijuana and pure thc 8)
PeterL: what about them? chemists can say what they are, but might not be able to recreate them in the lab
mircea_popescu: PeterL they can't usefully say what they are, even.
mircea_popescu: human taste is sensitive to ppb in some lines. smell easily to ppm.
nubbins`: protip: the smell of nice marijuana is precisely the smell of thc
mircea_popescu: nubbins` sure, soime cases are more advantageous than others. now go distinguish a glass of wine from another glass of wine, chemically.
mircea_popescu: your competent oenologist can usually spot the year and most of the time the vineyard. not the region mind. the vineyard.
nubbins`: too many compounds bru!
mircea_popescu: i thought it was described.
PeterL: sure, you can identify the differing concentrations of various chemicals
nubbins`: oh, no doubt
nubbins`: everyone's seen a sommelier identify the vineyard by taste
mircea_popescu: PeterL no, you can't actually, because a glass is not enough sample.
nubbins`: only way to earn your level 3
nubbins`: now take a glass of house red and a glass of $5000/bottle red and ask the guy to do a blind taste test.
nubbins` has admittedly never drunk wine costlier than $500/bottle but can verify that all the superfluous descriptors on the label are actually present
assbot: | Perth Now ... ( )
nubbins`: "it DOES taste like oiled leather and rustic tobacco"
mircea_popescu: if you had a cistern to run through, and a few years and an infinity of budgets, you maybe could get something sorta usable some of the time. which is about wheree it is.
jurov: jus' squirt it
mircea_popescu: jurov you know that sounds so very gypsy...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00022567 = 3.8364 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: at any rate : most actual foodstuffs, such as pickles, cheeses, cured and aged meats etc aren't even flora-enumerated, in the sense that we don't even really know what all grows on them
mircea_popescu: it's "broadly this" and "mostly that" all the way.
PeterL: aren't pickles just cucumbers soaked in vinegar?
mircea_popescu: no, they are not.
mircea_popescu: pickes are cucumbers fermented in a saline solution in the dark and cool.
mircea_popescu: the vinegar thing is an industrial product and at best cattle feed.
nubbins`: brining and fermenting is an art
nubbins` has been dabbling
mircea_popescu: not that i'm contesting the importance and corectness of whatever, maillard, what have you. but nobody who looked at the matter seriously is claiming the problem to be even described
mircea_popescu: let alone solved.
nubbins`: this kimchi i'm working through could strip paint
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8725 @ 0.00022038 = 1.9228 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: but yeah, mp has it. you can take a stab at the /types/ of organisms or compounds therein
nubbins`: but that's about as close as it gets
nubbins`: like, i know my kimchi has lactobacillus strains
nubbins`: which ones? shrug
mircea_popescu: moreover, the variety of bacteria is actually staggering.
nubbins`: ostensibly different ones than are in my sourdough.
PeterL: but chemists have a general knowledge of what goes into good food, unlike geneticists who have very little idea what goes into intelligence
mircea_popescu: PeterL but geneticists have am uch better idea of what goes into phenotypes.
mircea_popescu: uhhh... guanine
mircea_popescu: and... ahem.... ti something
mircea_popescu: there, they're ahead already.
mircea_popescu: guanine and ti something, almost 1/3 of the job
nubbins`: incidentally, coffee is up there with wine as far as variety of chemical compunds goes
nubbins`: coffee plantation was the first time i ever saw (and smelled) a smell sample kit
mircea_popescu: so it is. and the yak milk thing the mongols drink
mircea_popescu: and on it goes.
nubbins`: 10/10 would like to own one
nubbins` prefers wet-processed coffees, which means -- you guessed it -- fermentation
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00021505 = 2.2688 BTC [-]
nubbins`: sometimes i feel like i've changed my gut flora enough that it's modified my brain chemistry to strongly desire stinky, fermented things
nubbins`: other side of the coin is that i've stopped indulging in mcdonald's and plastic food for long enough that the natural desire to eat /living food/ has come back
nubbins`: take yr pick
danielpbarron: i thought it might have been because i was still using my own script to patch 0.5.3, but the pre-patched i tried also failed (that was the omitted 6th attempt
jurov imagined a dystopic flick featuring people with GMO gut flora living off all kinds of waste
jurov: i suspect such uncanny adaptations will be necessary for space, too
PeterL: I have entertained the idea of trying to implant gut flora from herbivores to allow us to live off grass, could be fun, no?
jurov: what fun? chewing all day?
PeterL: I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight?
nubbins`: danielpbarron so $OURLIBS resolves to /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs
nubbins`: $OPENSSL_LIB_PATH resolves to /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs/lib
nubbins`: ^ not sure that's drilled down deep enough
nubbins`: no, wait, that's fine
jurov: hardly chloroplasts. more likely figure out symbiosis with some sort of algae.. and i suspect it would not cover even significant part of metabolism
jurov: mostly worthwhile to synthesize vitamins and the like
nubbins`: danielpbarron your 7th halts at a different step, hey?
nubbins`: db_cxx.h vs buffer.h
mircea_popescu: jurov not a bad premise.
mircea_popescu: eh, you'd need to implant four stomachs too, peterl.
mircea_popescu: <PeterL> I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight? << toxic epidermal necrolysis much more likely./
nubbins`: danielpbarron
nubbins`: bottom chunk: see 2nd line in paste
nubbins`: ...failed updating 163 targets...
nubbins`: i think your problem might start a bit earlier?
chetty: <mircea_popescu> <PeterL> I've also wondered what would happen if we implanted chloroplasts in our skin, just live off sunlight? << toxic epidermal necrolysis much more likely./// and poor vampires
nubbins`: danielpbarron compare to first paste, failed updating 1 target
mod6: danielpbarron: headers.h:26:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory << did bdb get built ok?
mod6: you may want to do like one at a time: Comment out 77-95 (for BDB) & 97-119 (for Boost) and just see if you get a clean build from OpenSSL. Then if so, comment out 58-75 (openssl) and uncomment 77-95 for BDB and just run that... etc etc.
mod6: make sense?
jurov: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file << that's known issue on gentoo, you have to add -I <bdb path>
mod6: oh
danielpbarron: yeah, i think i remember doing that the last time i went through all this
danielpbarron: err.. what mod6 said, not what jurov said
mircea_popescu: vegetampires
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00021536 = 5.3625 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: chloroplasts << surface/volume ratio. fails, even if worked.
mircea_popescu: gmornin alf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9875 @ 0.00021873 = 2.16 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform caught up with logs, off to meatspace for a spell
mircea_popescu: i'm so fucking excited about this eulora release...
jurov: okay, but be sure to implement faster deposits :>
nubbins`: mircea_popescu hey who knows, maybe there'll be an osx build some time this summer
mircea_popescu: nubbins` cool, that way you can play too :D
nubbins`: instead of just mousing around the login screen with no kbd input :D
assbot: Manole Stroici - Și pe tine or să te doară... - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: moldavian count. famous pop singer of the 20s. after which, took up clay pigeon shooting, and became world champion 4ever.
danielpbarron: << ---[ end Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:13:16; asciilifeform: (it croaks, having no meaningful rootfs, but that's for tomorrow)
danielpbarron: on a related note, i'd like more specific info on how to make my own u-boot
danielpbarron: i'm not sure what asciilifeform recommends for this
danielpbarron: my adulterated pogo behaves strangly, sometimes it uses stock u-boot and sometimes it uses some thing i flashed to it, and i'm not sure why it changes
nubbins`: let me find you a link
assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( )
nubbins`: that covers flashing nand with u-boot
nubbins`: not quite roll-your-own, but...
danielpbarron: yeah no, i mean how to make my own u-boot
danielpbarron: that's the one i'm probably using already
assbot: 2014.07 U-Boot for FDT and Non-FDT Kernel - GoFlexNet, GoFlexHome, PogoE02, Dockstar, iConnect, NetgearStora, PogoV4/Mobile, Sheevaplug, NSA325, NSA320 ... ( )
nubbins`: see "references" section
danielpbarron: ...failed updating 1 target... << this happens when i use the prepatched, the looky loo outputs correct paths
assbot: Kirkwood U-boot - Getting all supported Kirkwoods on-board ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00022567 = 1.354 BTC [+]
nubbins`: danielpbarron at the risk of being silly, does db_cxx.h exist in /home/dpb/pogo/bitcoind/static.7th/ourlibs/include
nubbins`: okay, so that's why that step can't find it :D
danielpbarron: i see boost and openssl
nubbins`: working backwards, next step is to modify
danielpbarron: i guess that means db isn't finishing
nubbins`: comment out everything in but the chunk where it builds bdb
nubbins`: then run it, see what errors it throws
danielpbarron: oh weird, it does exist in there when i try with the prepatched
danielpbarron: this is output when i use the release and the patched for 32
nubbins`: still failed 1 target above
nubbins`: save that as
nubbins`: chmod 0755
nubbins`: ./
danielpbarron: i think my laptop has a 64 bit cpu
nubbins`: how much ram?
danielpbarron: 3 gigs + 2 gigs swap
nubbins`: haha actually sorry, the pastebin i linked above has 1 error
nubbins`: s/osx/unix/ in line 6
danielpbarron: so i'm the dummy that didn't realize he had a 64 bit cpu and put 32 bit OS on it
nubbins`: try that and paste the result
nubbins`: fwiw if you've got 3gb ram i guess it doesn't really matter
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron don't worry, you also put 64 bit on the 32 bit arm.
mircea_popescu: (also, 32 bit os should work on 64 bit hardware, compatibility mode)
nubbins`: i have no arms, and i must flail
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: whatevs.
danielpbarron: dpb@iscah ~/bitcoin/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1 $ ./
danielpbarron: Found 'db-4.8.30', skipping...
ben_vulpes: you'll see that if you run ./ more than once, non?
nubbins`: comment out if/else/fi
danielpbarron: this is a different one than the one that didn't have the db_cxx.h
danielpbarron: oh, should i run it from scratch?
danielpbarron: (which is what i have been doing up until this point)
nubbins`: it does make clean
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> this is a different one than the one that didn't have the db_cxx.h <<< ah
nubbins`: maybe you should start from scratch just so we can stay focused
nubbins`: it'll be a bit of a pain, but if you can comment out your so that it only builds one component
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i've done the same thing tho. i only had access to 32bit windows for my gaming rig, and i have to wipe the entire thing to install a 64bit version.
nubbins`: then comment out that one, uncomment the next, etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11552 @ 0.00022637 = 2.615 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: it'll be easier to spot which builds fail
danielpbarron: it seems to find all three of openss, boosts, and db
danielpbarron: or um, yeah lemme do from scratch
nubbins`: yeah, find is one thing, build properly is another
thestringpuller: so we are building axes and swords today? :D
ben_vulpes: maces and bludgeons
nubbins`: just wetting the stones
ben_vulpes: heh yeah
ben_vulpes: swinging sticks at each other in the muddy courtyard
nubbins`: hey, the best swordsmaster who ever lived was bested by a farmer with a quarterstaff
nubbins`: ^ rabbit hole if anyone's into reading dead trees
mircea_popescu: ca multi lorzi de vita veche din indepartatul nord...
mircea_popescu: lordul john e-ntr-o ureche...
nubbins`: there's no beef in the north
nubbins`: just polar bear
mircea_popescu: vit,a aka lineage, kin
danielpbarron: on the openssl part, it ends with this: Makefile:640: recipe for target 'install_docs' failed
assbot: Pasarea Colibri - Lordul John - YouTube ... ( )
nubbins`: while docs generally aren't crucial, i wonder if that stops some later process from happening
danielpbarron: oh also, should i be using the patched for 32 if my cpu is 64 but my OS is 32 ?
nubbins`: match the os
mircea_popescu: actually... maybe try 16 bit something ?
mircea_popescu: protected mode ?
nubbins`: if you try running a 64bit program on a 32bit os, you're gonna be sad
mircea_popescu: they don't run
nubbins`: ^ :D
mircea_popescu: inb4 danielpbarron accidentally builds ai
danielpbarron: in my "ourlibs" directory, it looks like there are only doc files
nubbins`: "y u no valid memory address"
danielpbarron: so i think it isn't finishing
nubbins`: ourlibs is where things get put as they're compiled
nubbins`: if you're only doing the first step, ourlibs won't be fully populated
nubbins`: does ourlibs/include exist?
danielpbarron: only ourlibs/ssl/man
danielpbarron: looks like db built fine
nubbins`: here's the Makefile from openssl
nubbins`: install: all install_docs install_sw
nubbins`: you could remove install_docs from that line if you wanted
nubbins`: might be easier than figuring out why the docs won't install
nubbins`: failure of install_docs might preclude attempt at install_sw
nubbins`: (who in the fuck installs the docs /first/?)
mircea_popescu: nubbins` installs the dix first!
mircea_popescu: fun fact : zog Ist was king of...
mircea_popescu: albania.
punkman: "This bet is open to the first VC who would like to take it . The loser donates $100,000 to a charity of the winner’s choice." meh
assbot: Bubble talk - Sam Altman ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0002306 = 4.7619 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: danielpbarron: i'd like more specific info on how to make my own u-boot << i have a u-boot built from official source. the buildroot thing -also- builds a u-boot, as a matter of course, but i have not yet tested that one
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated << so, let's go into this in detail. they ship with all the seed ips they will ever have? for the record i proclaim this to be retarded. -keys- are the constants of our world, not ip addrs
ascii_field: i utterly understand the desire to 'tivoize' these things so they don't get turned into phoundation nodes by lamers. but this can be done without idiot waste.
ascii_field: once the twentybux boxes run out (and i expect that it will happen sooner rather than later) prepare to pay six times more for each node.
ascii_field: right now some bezzlatronic idiot is paying the difference
ascii_field: (the vendor is selling a loss-leader, hoping to attract chumps to its 5/mo. 'cloud' crapolade)
nubbins`: i think a lot of it is genuinely overstock too
ascii_field: likewise physical delivery is expensive. (witness kakobrekla's attempt to buy so much as one pogo and still have it 'feel disposable')
ascii_field: nubbins`: this also.
nubbins`: physical delivery, for me, bottoms out at ~$10usd
nubbins`: whether i buy 3 or 50
ascii_field: so, what, we're expecting operators to throw out perfectly good boxes to add a fucking seed node!?!
ascii_field: turning an ip address into a critical constant in a field-deployed machine paints a big fat target on that ip for usg
ascii_field: one of the few things usg is reliably good at is making a particular ip unusable
ascii_field: or emplacing own turd there
nubbins`: my ip address will be fine to use as a seed node, but it /may occasionally change/
ascii_field: nubbins`: there you go
ascii_field: hardcoded seeds - idiocy
nubbins`: and is thus useless for inclusion in a baked-in
ascii_field: there is no other side to this
nubbins`: now, i can gpg-sign my ip address and publish it somewhere when it changes
nubbins`: in fact, i can almost certainly have this process be automatic
ascii_field: nubbins`: this means gpg on the nodes
ascii_field: and updatatron
ascii_field: and mircea_popescu will say 'bah, unreliable, you're driving up engineering cost 1000 times'
nubbins`: gpg and curl, at the very least
ascii_field: i suggested this, yes
ascii_field: well, not curl
nubbins`: where's the seed list now, in a fucking .c file or something?
nubbins`: w/e it may be
ascii_field: can't rely on anything on the net staying put
ascii_field: SIGNED update would have to be on attached storage
ascii_field: plug in a card, if passes sig - used
nubbins`: updated seed list on sd card?
mthreat: back in sudamerica
nubbins`: the list'll be stale by the time someone gets a box
mthreat: after the land of chipotle
ascii_field: nubbins`: updated whatever
ascii_field: seeds, bitcoind image, hell, whole rom
ascii_field: but -signed-
ascii_field: and button must be held.
ascii_field: no automagic-anything.
nubbins`: there's gotta be a sane way to do this over the wire
ascii_field: user must consciously insist on update
ascii_field: nubbins`: silent wire updates are ipso facto insane
nubbins`: altho otw explicitly means you're not examining anything
nubbins`: "aha" 8)
ascii_field: user is free to examine the (signed) update on his own time
ascii_field: before firing it
ascii_field: (or not)
nubbins`: so this is all agreed, anything that can be modified should be signed
ascii_field: not proposing anything idiotic, e.g., it being ciphered in some way
nubbins`: this brings us back to the seeds
ascii_field: nubbins`: i am trying to knock some sense into the folks taking the 'no updates, throw'em out every time' folks
ascii_field: (who don't appear to be logged in at present, but, still)
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:08:35; mircea_popescu: serviceable 19 dollar units ? gtfo.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:10:32; mircea_popescu: forget it, you want to upgrade get a new unit.
nubbins`: this is all fine and well
nubbins`: until you hardcode a thousand seed ips
nubbins`: and a week later they're all dead in the water
ascii_field: this is where the enemy excels
nubbins`: and there's you with half a blockchain
ascii_field: except they won't be dead, they'll be hosting phoundation syblics
ascii_field: *sybils
nubbins`: ha, there you go
ascii_field: and i disagree with mircea_popescu's hypothesis that 'enemy is stupid'. he is not stupid. he is being slow, so as to show off his sprezzatura.
nubbins`: this is getting dangerously closer to bringing the whole seed thing back to first principles, you know
ascii_field: give or take a few months, enemy starts to bark up the vaguely-correct tree.
ascii_field: nubbins`: ultimately the first principle is that pubkeys are the only valid locators for anything purporting to be human
ben_vulpes: i'm reading, asciilifeform
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: aha, there you are.
ben_vulpes: you'll note, not arguing.
ascii_field: good, ben_vulpes is thinking
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: don't hurry, think.
ben_vulpes: it seems you object to 2 things
ben_vulpes: i may be wrong and stupid, but i'm willing to be corrected and learn
ben_vulpes: 1) hardcoding of seeds by enemy
ben_vulpes: 2) using enemy's keys
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: wai wat?!!
ascii_field: i was objecting to hardcoding of seeds -by us-
nubbins`: what sort of handshake happens when you find a live ip in the seed list
ascii_field: warning that if we bake machines with unchangeable ip constants, this paints a fat blinking target on them
ascii_field: for usg
ascii_field: the only valid constant is keys.
nubbins`: you can't locate someone with a key
ben_vulpes: so if i might be forgiven for conflating things, should not any subset of the wot graph be able to use their own keys?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: use their own keys for what ?
ben_vulpes: signing updates to seed list.
ascii_field: this is where you gotta make the call re: how much centralization you want.
ben_vulpes: if we're to entertain updating, operators *must* be able to update without foundation keys.
ascii_field: and where mircea_popescu wakes up and says 'now the machine is 1000x more complex, needs to know what wot is'
ben_vulpes: alternatively, with arbitrary keys.
ascii_field: meaning no key at all ?
nubbins`: suppose you get a box and then start suspecting we've been turned.
ben_vulpes: perhaps must be supplied with keys on initial flash
ascii_field: to tivo or not to tivo, that is the question
nubbins`: now you're stuck with a box with OUR keys being the arbiter
ascii_field: why would someone buy a box from therealbitcoin when he suspects we've been turned ?
nubbins`: s/when/before/
ascii_field: i'm fine with him having to buy a new box -then-
ben_vulpes: i thought boxes were user-flashed!
nubbins`: aha!
nubbins`: let him buy a banana cream pi or w/e
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: user-flashed possibly, from vendor state, but not into a configuration that is reflashable in the same idiot (remote exploit) way
nubbins`: fuck it, get it to scan a random /16 for .foundation nodes on first boot
nubbins`: sure, it'll take a couple days humming before it starts getting blocks
nubbins`: BUT W/E
ben_vulpes: lol y not
ascii_field: scan a random /16 for .foundation nodes << wai wat
ascii_field: how do you propose to distinguish friend/foe ?
ben_vulpes: there is no friend/foe
ascii_field: we have no mechanism for this
ben_vulpes: there are just nodes on the network
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: he use the phrase '.foundation nodes'
ascii_field: implies that these can be told apart from others
ascii_field: by machine
ben_vulpes: and it'll remain that way until the block download thing is fixed to a) track node quality and b) spot-check blocks provided by high quality peers
nubbins`: you can't have visible to users but invisible to usg
nubbins`: just can't
nubbins`: !up ascii_field
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: anyway, consider the statement suitably modified
ascii_field: ultimately the only proper box is one where the only magical constant is an rsa key, and same key is also prominently burned into the chassis
nubbins`: i'm sure we all have at least a reasonably narrow range of IPs that'll be assigned to our nodes, even if they're dynamic
ascii_field: nubbins`: i don't
ascii_field: this is a very bad assumption
ascii_field: my isp is a mega-conglomerate which owns and uses multiple slash-eights
ben_vulpes: and shouldn't this discussion be looking at ipv6 as well?
nubbins`: lel, total country bumpkins here re: ip blocks obv 8)
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i recommend strongly against ipv6 in this machine
ascii_field: multiple known bugs revolving around mostly untested ipv6 crud
ben_vulpes is a total country bumpkin re: anything combudder
ascii_field: i recall at least one that concerns marvell in particular
ascii_field: i don't even have ipv6 enabled on my lan, much less outgoing.
ascii_field: even if nothing else, complicates reading packet dumps
ascii_field: which any reasonable person does regularly
ascii_field: to see what lives in his home
ascii_field: at the risk of pissing off many, i will still say, screw ipv6
nubbins`: just thinking out loud here
ascii_field: i ban ipv6 in my home.
nubbins`: hardcode DNS servers and fill the seed list w/ hostnames instead of ips
ascii_field: 100% usg
ascii_field: usg has real time iron control over all of dns.
ascii_field: to a first approximation.
ascii_field: this is right back to phoundation's idiocies.
nubbins`: well i'm not running a namecoin node
ascii_field: nubbins`: don't need to (and same problems apply to it)
ascii_field: the only way to cut usg-controlled apparatus entirely out of the loop is to have the node get all volatiles (e.g., ip addrs) from files, on inserable media, -signed- by burned-in and prominently-advertised key.
nubbins`: how many ips (or live ips, if you prefer) in current seed list?
nubbins`: i think this is on the ml somewhere..
ascii_field: yeah i posted it.
ascii_field: ^ that was all i think
nubbins`: *six*?
mod6: you rang?
nubbins`: heh.
jurov: if seedlist is to be signed, then it can download it automatically, no?
nubbins`: so according to this, six live seeds would ostensibly be enough to bootstrap with
ascii_field: until they're shot
nubbins`: right.
nubbins`: then those six are useless
ascii_field: the only reason they are alive (and are they? i checked a good while ago) is that no one cared.
nubbins`: in the meantime, we've been using a different six since we sent out the first X units
nubbins`: cat-and-mouse
ascii_field: there will be considerably less cat'n'mouse if enemy -knows- that there can be no effect from chewing on the mice
ascii_field: and the only way this could be so is if there are no magic hardcoded ips.
ascii_field: you can't ddos an rsa key
ascii_field: or have it administratively forced to rout to ft meade
ascii_field: *route
ben_vulpes thinks more
jurov: !mpif
assbot: F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021375 B (Total: 467.44 B). Delta: 0.31 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: ascii_field so what's the path from rsa key -> seed node
ascii_field: nubbins`: i proposed a very simple one
nubbins`: maybe i'm being obtuse :S
ascii_field: nubbins`: node ships with no seeds. even without bitcoind binary. user inserts a storage unit on which he has placed a therealbitcoin-signed tarball. this gets eaten up.
ascii_field: repeat as necessary.
ascii_field: (and user presses button, yes)
nubbins`: a a a.
nubbins`: i gotcha
ben_vulpes: seeds included in tarball?
nubbins`: heh.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: aha
nubbins`: any seed list made public by any means is a target
nubbins`: us cloaked ones forget about ddos lurkers in here
ascii_field: nubbins`: yes. but -how attractive- a target, will depend on how much damage can be done to our cause by shooting at it
ascii_field: hence the sheer lunacy of unchangeable ips anywhere
nubbins`: at this rate you're gonna have to get in the wot before someone tells you a seed ip
nubbins` blinks twice
ascii_field: nubbins`: bitcoin doesn't run on secret ips
ascii_field: that's a road to lameness
ascii_field: but there is a reasonably sane solution that doesn't involve secrecy
ascii_field: but simply 'we can move these at zero cost to us and ours if we want to, so don't bother shooting at them'
nubbins` gestures appropriately
nubbins`: foundation could publish a list of trusted seeds each month w/ state of the union
nubbins`: i don't know
ascii_field: why not.
nubbins`: also woot, 2x raspi & 2x pogo just showed up
nubbins`: seed list is in a source file?
nubbins`: or txt
nubbins`: beaut
nubbins`: monthly seed list updates
nubbins`: separate tarball
nubbins`: unit comes w/ instructions for use, that includes grabbing both the bitcoind tarball and a seed list tarball of choice
ascii_field: try to see, i don't suggest hosting therealbitcoin mega-seeds on dynamic ip consumer boxes
ascii_field: but on solid pipes somewhere, ideally
ascii_field: the movability is like nukes, shouldn't ever have to be -used- - with any regularity
ascii_field: it must be there to remind the enemy of his helplessness
nubbins`: so the switch from phoundation seeds to foundation seeds must happen after said pipes are tapped
ascii_field: phoundation - usg
ascii_field: foundation - therealbitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5115 @ 0.00023349 = 1.1943 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i try to use .foundation when they're not both in the same sentence 8)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: gonna try the SD-for-block-storage route on one of these
ascii_field: these are sata-less variant ?
nubbins`: still haven't found a reasonable purple-logo unit source for canada
nubbins`: although i suppose i'm sort of being an asshole by saying $28usd isn't reasonable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.00023234 = 3.4502 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: << it does have an "eject" button on the back next to the USB3 ports
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 04:18:28; asciilifeform: nubbins`: pogo4 has no buttons
nubbins`: yeah we determined that after
nubbins`: both had to check units iirc
ascii_field: danielpbarron: at first i though that the rear button was a cpu reset line
ascii_field: *thought
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: Old dog tricking puppy, so cute. ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.000232 = 1.5544 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:13:12; punkman: "This bet is open to the first VC who would like to take it . The loser donates $100,000 to a charity of the winner’s choice." meh
mircea_popescu: what's with the charity bs and what's with the sub million bs. is this the new jersey memorial golf circuit ?
mircea_popescu: (for poor people reading : "donating to a charity" = tax deduction = you didn't actually spend anything. because say my company has made 1mn revenue this year, and my tax accountant is bs so i have to pay like 120k in tax. if i donate 100k to a charity and pay 30k ish im all done. so therefore - whether i lose this bet or not decides whether i write a check to x or to y, not whether i write the check at all.
mircea_popescu: "donation to charity" is what rich people do to make poor people think something happened.)
mircea_popescu: and dealing in sub-million units is really like proposing to settle differences by wager of battle, "except let's use styrofoam weapons". totally dude, rad.
ascii_field: for extra mega-b0nus, the 'charity' is run by phriendz/childrenz/catamites of the 'donor'
mircea_popescu: in his case, for sure.
mircea_popescu: considering how the entire subculture is composed of nothing but "transhumanists"
mircea_popescu: where the fuck is that kid.
mircea_popescu: such a great picture he had
ascii_field: cishumanists
thestringpuller: ascii_field made a south parkian joke!
ascii_field: wai wat
thestringpuller: ascii_field: so russian d00d works on implmentations team. he was in the break room and we go up to him to ask him random question about rapper or something, and he's like "I don't have time for this shit. Are you paying me to answer this question?"
ascii_field would likely demand pay to answer such a question
mircea_popescu: omfg where is turkenest head
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.00349371 = 1.0481 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00022722 = 3.3515 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: jerm la haine! found him!
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 04:12:53; mircea_popescu: "Jerm La Haine: I’ve been doing music production and graphic design for just under twenty years now."
nubbins`: 20 years o.O
nubbins`: what makes me think this guy is 25
mircea_popescu: ah tyvm danielpbarron lol
danielpbarron is following him on twitter
mircea_popescu: i was digging
mircea_popescu: since then or b4 ?
danielpbarron: i should have labeled it
danielpbarron: since then
mircea_popescu: lol shock trooper
danielpbarron: he claimed to not know who whoever someone here compared him to
danielpbarron: jaronlanier
mircea_popescu: and to round up the "sam altman is poor" thing : yes, he actually is.
mircea_popescu: leah goodman poor, which is to say he gets a few 100s of discretionary tspending a week and gets to - at the lord's pleasure - inhabit a decent mancave. for now.
mircea_popescu: but that's it.
nubbins`: i forgot about her
nubbins`: (tm)
mircea_popescu: and it his isn't poverty, i guess i'm just privileged.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the ugly but aging sex in the city aspirationalist that "found satoshi's identity". then ascii_field thought she was rich then she wasn't.
mircea_popescu: if you b-a her name it's all in there because she's one of those (unfamous, anon irrelevant people that appear suddenly and on one topic. as opposed to say lenin.)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field has a possibly different imagination of 'rich' than mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: you know, stupid people sleep ad libitum by the definition of those terms.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: do they? or does the dependapotomus and its six screaming offspring wake'em
ascii_field: or the roommatez
ascii_field: or the roaches and bedbugs
nubbins`: i generally wake the roommates, not the other way around 8)
mircea_popescu: anyway im gonna be briefly afk
fluffypony: Romania: Internet vs. Roads -
assbot: The User is Drunk ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00023317 = 1.3524 BTC [+]
punkman: " Is this your only job? No. I have a full time job changing the world."
assbot: Keywords for the Age of Austerity 16: Flexibility ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16931 @ 0.00022409 = 3.7941 BTC [-]
trinque: punkman: hah I just quoted that part myself
trinque: what a toolbag
trinque: punkman: this is his "changing the world"
trinque: looks like uh... twitter social thing, part 2352580238
trinque: "I've always felt as if my brain was always wired for a short circuit or at least in a way that wasn't too appealing for anyone else but me.
trinque: Ideapod has given me courage to share my insights with its delightful community and made me realise that the problem wasn't my personal content, but my personal context. "
trinque: ahahahah
ascii_field: waiwat
trinque: yep given the right spotlight, any hag becomes irresistable
trinque: that's what I just learned
trinque: get enough of those together and "progress concentrate" starts to form, which can be bottled and sold at Whole Foods
ascii_field: menstruade (TM)
nubbins`: batorade (tm)
trinque: bahaha, either works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9946 @ 0.00023349 = 2.3223 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: My copy machine was programmed not to completely copy money - Imgur ... ( )
ascii_field: 'my targeting computer was programmed not to fire at usg'
ascii_field: anybody recall the gps-boobytrapped cnc mills thread
ascii_field: 'We as a company own all of the machines. There is no outstanding balance and we've already had the tech come out to unlock them. Due to some business changes, we want to move the machines around the shop floor to reconfigure our machining cell however as we've done more research, we've found that there is a small board in the electrical panel of the machine that houses a gyroscope so that if the machine is moved/tilted,
ascii_field: it will lock out the machine.'
ascii_field: ^ vintage thread. but reposted for the record
ascii_field: this is what usg-mandated code looks like.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75438 @ 0.000236 = 17.8034 BTC [+] {6}
nubbins`: i recall that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15826 @ 0.00025392 = 4.0185 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: !s turdel
assbot: 2 results for 'turdel' :
jurov: <fluffypony> Romania: Internet vs. Roads << slovakia the same
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yup. pretty much exactly.
mircea_popescu: <assbot> The User is Drunk ... << why not go all the way and admit it. "the user is stupid, therefore worthless. so am i. please pay me money because worthless idiots are people too. HUMAN RIGHTS ARE IRREVERSIBLE!!11"
mircea_popescu: << genius. let's use emails as urls.
assbot: Pay: Richard Littauer ... ( )
mircea_popescu: trinque oddly that thing doesn't load any content for me. either im not drunk enough or you broke it.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> batorade (tm) << secreted by the batshit insane ?
nubbins`: it still rhymes with gatorade!
trinque: mircea_popescu: you're not missing anything
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "Copy machine money" : this is a sad necessity. if it weren't present, muppets WOULD "try it", and discover "it works", and srsly financial collapse. for real.
trinque: the great canon pixma revolution of 2018
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they did try, and result could only fool a muppet
mircea_popescu: which is 90% of people engaged in commerce.
ascii_field: and it takes some actual work to bleach a 1usd note to get anything like plausible paper for benjie
mircea_popescu: check it out, bitcointalk scams fooled tons of "early adopters", "world changers" etc.
ascii_field: different game. 'they wanted to believe'
mircea_popescu: ascii_field im talking money cut out of a fucking notebook.
mircea_popescu: so do these ?
mircea_popescu: exactly same game.
mircea_popescu: where's that video.
mircea_popescu: ;;google christina applegate buys a car with kellog's cornflakes cutoutsd.
gribble: No matches found.
ascii_field: (phun phact for non-u.s. folks: all u.s. dollar notes have exactly the same physical dimensions.)
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, google... that just means you're useless.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i don't get it. who would "buy" such a thing ?
mircea_popescu: we're not talking 100 bucks for a piece of plastic here.
ascii_field: wai wat
ascii_field: buy what
mircea_popescu: 'We as a company own all of the machines. There is no outstanding balance and we've already had the tech come out to unlock them."
ascii_field: aha, as in 'who would buy a boeing' ?
mircea_popescu: "a company, not a person - or in other words nobody"
mircea_popescu: gotta love the systematic nature of stupid.
ascii_field: i thought mircea_popescu was asking why a firm would purchase rather than lease the machines
mircea_popescu: they paid them, it's not a lease anymore.
ascii_field thought that mircea_popescu was asking why the machines are offered for purchase rather than, as often happens with such equipment, for lease
trinque: should've sued instead of just thanking the tech for restoring access to their property
ascii_field: trinque: you 'agree' when you buy
ascii_field: to the crapolade
mircea_popescu: trinque im thinking the same, this is something readily resolved in court.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you agree never to move it ?
ascii_field: you agree to pay $$$$$ to move
ascii_field: because usg inspectors
mircea_popescu is unfamiliar with the field.
mircea_popescu: what's being inspected specifically ?
ascii_field: location
mircea_popescu: << the SEEDS. nodes constantly discover their own peers. starting from a seed list.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:37:53; ascii_field: ben_vulpes: no, nodes don't get updated << so, let's go into this in detail. they ship with all the seed ips they will ever have? for the record i proclaim this to be retarded. -keys- are the constants of our world, not ip addrs
trinque: how hard would it be to break the accelerometer?
mircea_popescu: trinque it probably stops working.
nubbins`: gzip: turdel.gz: not in gzip format
mircea_popescu: ascii_field what about it ?
ascii_field: nubbins`: it sure as fuck is a gzip
ascii_field: wget it
ascii_field: don't use browser
ascii_field: (they often unzip)
trinque: mircea_popescu: someone should have a business doing aftermarket mods on these
nubbins`: totally what i did. sec.
nubbins`: (and til!)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what about it << it being in a usg-blessed region
mircea_popescu: << there's no such thing desired or even possible. understand : the scam foundation is stupid because it is actually stupid, not because me or you or god said it should be deemed as stupid.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:39:09; ascii_field: i utterly understand the desire to 'tivoize' these things so they don't get turned into phoundation nodes by lamers. but this can be done without idiot waste.
mircea_popescu: actual hardware is useless for their purposes
mircea_popescu: they need imaginary hardware to support their imaginary "technologies"
ascii_field: ^ my puny brain does not get the meaning of this
ascii_field: imaginary hardware ?
ascii_field: as in vapourware ?
mircea_popescu: usgavin's been on a kick about this imaginary hardware that will run his 200 trillion jiggabit nodes.
mircea_popescu: because you know, "it quadruples every two weeks"
mircea_popescu: what's the pogo gonna do ?
ascii_field: neh from my perch it looks like they're gearing up for an elementary meat war of conventional nodes
mircea_popescu: that's what they think they're doing.
mircea_popescu: understand : they can stand on their fucking head. "vote" ? what fucking vote ?
mircea_popescu: heck, i'll vote WITH them on the voting stage of things
mircea_popescu: still rape them once the switch happens.
mircea_popescu: this is not a discussion of anything but the hard laws.
mircea_popescu: or w/e hanbot called it
mircea_popescu: so : yeah, usg&friends thinks it's engaging me on its own terms.
mircea_popescu: and it has been doing this, for years now.
trinque: is it just a matter of preserving the existing chain?
trinque: not "winning" in the sense of a fork?
mircea_popescu: it does not work. might as well grab the moon with a tweezer
trinque: because they become incompatible, then go off to eventually die?
nubbins`: ascii_field oh wait this is just a blob, isn't it?
mircea_popescu: "i wonder why that doesn't work, the allignm,ent was perfect!"
ascii_field: nubbins`: it's just a demo kernel for pogo
mircea_popescu: trinque it autowins the fork.
ascii_field: nubbins`: armv5 binary. nothing earth-shaking
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
nubbins`: brainfarted and thought you mentioned smth about a uboot being in there
ascii_field: nubbins`: -also- built u-boot
ascii_field: but not posted
nubbins`: aha! :D
ascii_field: and in case anyone needs to be reminded, please don't use downloaded binaries for anything serious
nubbins`: i was about to flash the nand when i recalled a nebulous something about this
mircea_popescu: ascii_field dja get my meaning here ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if i understand, the meaning is that there is no phoundation node ?
ascii_field: this still doesn't give us a license to be retarded when making these
mircea_popescu: there can not be a power ranger node that can run on a pogo.
mircea_popescu: think about it. 20mb blocks ? srsly ?
mircea_popescu: no, itdoesn't give us a license to be retarded.
thestringpuller: 20mb is only the limit!
ascii_field: actually, i can see them trying to convert'em to 0.10 or what it was
thestringpuller: the blocks will be much smaller
ascii_field: just to maintain relevance for selves
thestringpuller: until then!
ascii_field: and keep us off the stage
mircea_popescu: but if you imagine there's any room in the spec of this thing for the end user to fiddle with it you're ourgiht nuts.
mircea_popescu: fire and forget.
mircea_popescu: only way.
thestringpuller says other pseudo arguments
ascii_field: hardcoded seeds are retarded
ascii_field: i stand by this
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah thought in the shower today that giving an easy way to dump other code into the thing later was a terrible idea
trinque: all the thing has to do is hold the line
ascii_field: they -will- be ddosed and sinkholed to usg machines.
ascii_field: guaranteed.
mircea_popescu: trinque
trinque: yeap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00025269 = 3.664 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: wtf people. srsly. if anyone WANTS TO run a pogo they can
mircea_popescu: they can run fucking madonna videos on it
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 20bux + a man with a suitcase to bring it to you, if you're in ar
mircea_popescu: we are solving third world problems now ?
ascii_field: and that's while the 20bux machines last.
mircea_popescu: fuck the third world with a spiked club. if it wasn't made by retards it wouldn't be third.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if we're so non-thirdworld, where's my ic fab ?
mircea_popescu: these are different problems omg.
ascii_field: fact is, 101st or 202nd pogo, whichever, will cost $maxint.
mircea_popescu: the mexican billionaire w/e his name is has his own ic fab made out of driewd cunt juice./
ascii_field: so we're thirdworld. or we wouldn't be playing junkyard wars.
ascii_field: or do i misunderstand the term
thestringpuller: how is this anything like junk yard wars?
ascii_field: thestringpuller: we're repurposing obsolete hardware
ascii_field: rather than fabbing single-chip node
ascii_field: from ore
trinque: an AK is a great gun
ascii_field: !s izhevsk
assbot: 4 results for 'izhevsk' :
ascii_field: ^ mandatory
mircea_popescu: i think you misunderstand the term.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : forget argentina, and forget the anecdotal peculiarities of my odd choices in things.
thestringpuller: ascii_field: this seems more like battlebots than junkyard wars. (Junkyard wars reminds me more of ed edd and eddie which was pretty much all junkyard hacking"
mircea_popescu: this is a consumer product, it works like a consumer product. once it stops working it gets thrown out.
mircea_popescu: it is not an item to be loved, dreamed about, repaired, tuned etc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i get this. but we're dealing with a fundamental case of amplification attack.
mircea_popescu: specifically ?
ascii_field: enemy can cost us K by spending J, where J is close to nil and K is positive
ascii_field: they ddos the magic ips - or worse, silently redirect to own boxes
ascii_field: and we have to parachute new units ?
ascii_field: i say this is retarded
mircea_popescu: for the cost of this project, i wish to see large scale ip diddling
mircea_popescu: i totally wish to see it.
mircea_popescu: heck, ima make a blog post about it.
ascii_field: just for mircea_popescu's pleasure they will do straight sinkhole
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00025269 = 1.3645 BTC [-]
ascii_field: instead of diddlage
mircea_popescu: and this won't be all over the internets, either.
mircea_popescu: dja see how the fucking attacked ips are actually more valuable than the damned pogos ?
ascii_field: at any rate, -we won't know- that it's pointing to usg boxes emulating our nodes
ascii_field: there is no mechanism for distinguishing a correctly operating node from one that will be until day X
mircea_popescu: overengineering is like cocaine.
ascii_field: the fucking attacked ips are actually more valuable than the damned pogos << they are not valuable because we can never prove they exist
ascii_field: even to our own satisfaction
ascii_field: i'll spell it out:
mircea_popescu: because they only exist halfway, like competent usg and able nsa ?
ascii_field: 1) we deploy boxes with magic ips
ascii_field: 2) usg redirects them to exact copies of our own boxes sitting in ft meade
ascii_field: 3) ages pass and we notice nothing. they switch theirs off when ours go off, etc. direct mitm
mircea_popescu: no measurable latency of this
ascii_field: 4) on day X they turn on the mitm diddlamatic and do... something
ascii_field: 5) ???
ascii_field: 6) profit
mircea_popescu: what fucking profit lol.
ascii_field: ask'em not me
mircea_popescu: ft meade gets to look like a kiddy pool i took a piss in
mircea_popescu: total profit.
nubbins`: so deploy them with magic ips and "check here monthly for updated seed list, the walls have eyes, sam is in the trees, etc"
mircea_popescu: wron side of the scoreboard, but sure, profit.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's a concentration of the problem.
mircea_popescu: now you have a "here"
nubbins`: the original seed list is a "here"
ascii_field: precisely why i didn't say 'network update'
mircea_popescu: right but you're adding a narrower version.
nubbins`: (and there, and there, and there...)
ascii_field: i said 'will eat update signed by key'
ascii_field: the key in mircea_popescu's ring, or wherever
mircea_popescu: ascii_field if you're so absolutely convinced, how about seedlist is a config file sits with blockchain on disk ?
trinque: ascii_field: that's what I proposed
ascii_field: that was what i asked for
trinque: an address sending transactions which indicate hashes of updates
trinque: of the seedlist, whatever
trinque: and yeah, then somebody is a point of failure
mircea_popescu: ascii_field seemed to me you're asking for an entirely something erlse, but anyway
mircea_popescu: iirc you were asking for a complex update gpg signature thing. not for a simple "move x text file from /sda to /sdb"
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> right but you're adding a narrower version. << so "check the usual places monthly", w/e
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16171 @ 0.00024929 = 4.0313 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` if it's not narrower just make it the seed list. bam back to square one.
mircea_popescu: you're trying to jump a fence by crawling on your back.
nubbins` shakes head
trinque: what if the seed list was encoded directly as transactions?
nubbins`: monthly state of bitcoin address, "check out these sweet seed ips"
trinque: trusted after some large number of confirmations
trinque: nubbins`: yeha.
nubbins`: "feel free to update the seed list that came w/ your device"
nubbins`: "it's been signed by us and our pubkeys shipped with your device"
trinque: I'm not even saying that
mircea_popescu: motherfucker.
nubbins`: THEN you only need to worry about the NSA intercepting the shipments.
trinque: encode IPs into outputs or something
mircea_popescu: build a cnc mill in every pogo, be done with it.
mircea_popescu: they could make dildos while brushing gf's teeth.
nubbins`: <+trinque> what if the seed list was encoded directly as transactions? <<< how you gonna get those transactions?
mircea_popescu: by infinite power.
mircea_popescu passes out "you suck at system design" dounce hats liberally.
trinque: eh ok
nubbins` sighs
trinque: obviously the thing has to connect to something first
trinque: if you wanted it to connect to other somethings later, either the natural way or some means of signaling
nubbins`: i'm suggesting shipping them with a hardcoded seed list *just like you are*
trinque: if you can't trust a txn that's very old, uh
trinque: bitcoin doesn't work
mircea_popescu: nubbins` do you mind ? i'm being mean over here.
nubbins`: i'm just also saying that /new seeds can be published in the future by the .foundation, if they want to/
nubbins` tips table over
mircea_popescu: was that a laser tip or an artisanal tip ?
nubbins`: mushroom tip
mircea_popescu: jus' the tip!
nubbins`: 's all that fits
mircea_popescu: (im kinda nonplussed that nobody even seems to realise seed list is only interesting on boot and these aren't intended to ever reboot, really.)
trinque: comcast will eventually go out
mircea_popescu: boot. not network outage.
mircea_popescu: how often does your 1.8 watt thing drain the ups ?
trinque: if they're consumer turds no ups
nubbins`: once every whoops i unplugged it
trinque: "fucking around behind the TV"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` onoes, you ruined 20 bux worht of old gear (plus shipping and handling!)
mircea_popescu: buy two plug them in diff bedrooms.
mircea_popescu: this is hopw the problem is solved in this space : buy more units.
mircea_popescu: i guess nobody ever played zerg hm ?
mircea_popescu: "dude that zergling's broken" "mmkay" "aren't you going to repair it ?" "wut ?! *click* *click* *click* *click* *click*"
nubbins`: nobody's gonna pay ten cents for something that breaks if you turn it off
mircea_popescu: it breaks if you turn it off && fort meade floats in the air above your house.
mircea_popescu: also known as, not a single seed ip remains.
trinque: anyhow I think any remote control of any kind is bad, mkay
trinque: but if they need some kind of signaling, signaling by blockchain is probably the safest
trinque: not "we trust this pastebin" or w/e
trinque: even gpg signed
mircea_popescu: in general. not when you're signalling how to get the blockchain.
trinque goes to find the length of the longest-ever fork
trinque: rather, fork which was abandoned
mircea_popescu: in any case, the "this thing breaks if it runs out of power at any point after the enemy (or more likely plain old rust) has destroyedall seed ips" proposition is better value than
mircea_popescu: "this thing breaks iof there's a bug found in gpg. or if we didn't implement signature checking correctly. or or or or"
nubbins`: trinque for all you know i forked the blockchain 2 years ago and am still shuffling my forked coins
mircea_popescu: trinque not an answerable q.
mircea_popescu: (and before anyone goes "how could we implement signature checking incorrectly", this was discussed mere days ago. === "no errors found" or what was it)
trinque: nubbins`: you can declare you've spent my coin? and others will be able to verify this?
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: trinque they can be empty blocks, still a fork.
nubbins`: trinque that's not what you were looking for 8)
nubbins`: mircea_popescu so are you proposing that all pogos ever sent out will contain or w/e current release is when the first one goes out?
nubbins`: then it's sort of a self-solving problem
mircea_popescu: i propose whoever makes one puts w/e the fuck they want in there and that's that for the damned unit in question
mircea_popescu: and if you want to change, derp. change the production flux.
mircea_popescu: you know, like industry works since fortever. not like ford mondeo got recalled because hey, they got ford fluence out, so they'll conver them
nubbins`: obviously if the foundation is still producing new releases, it's going to be maintaining a seed list for that release, rather than just continuing to let the dead nodes build up
nubbins`: so if anyone particularly feels like they don't want their out of date unit to be so
nubbins`: they're 100% welcome to grab the latest foundation release, because obv it'll still work
nubbins`: it's just off-label usage as far as we're concerned.
nubbins`: ascii_field ^^ ?
danielpbarron: i know "time isn't really money" but however long it takes to upgrade one of these things is probably enough time to earn more than 20 USD working at McDonalds
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron the (actually sound) argument is that they won't be 20 forever, we're eating up a bubble of externalised cost.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 21:56:26; mircea_popescu: i totally wish to see it.
assbot: Countries blocking access to The Pirate Bay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
trinque: heh!
mircea_popescu: jurov i am not seeing it can not be done.
mircea_popescu: i am seeing i wish to see it done, for us.
mircea_popescu: s/seeing/saying/
jurov: lolk
jurov: i see, it actually helped thepirateby immensely
mircea_popescu: they ARE making political parties and getting various lawmaker seats because of it.
jurov: and alf will finally get his dreamed out gasenwagen too
mircea_popescu: well he wanted to meet o'brien.
ascii_field: was in meeting
assbot: Seinfeld - George Hates the Jews - YouTube ... ( )
trinque: beat the thing one more time... publishing say a magnet link from a known address to an address or addresses representing a bittorrent magnet link seems a fine way to be able to trust shuffling bits out to nodes if that were wanted
ascii_field: aarrgh
trinque: pub/priv-key encrypt either works or doesn't, sha256 either works or doesn't
ascii_field: trinque: mircea_popescu was alluding to protocol finesse
ascii_field: rather than cryptobreak
ascii_field: as in, e.g., the 'der' idiocy
mircea_popescu: it's just more hard work to read the shit. which is work. which we don't fucking hasve the time for.
mircea_popescu: let's do only the things that are useful.
trinque: mircea_popescu: 100% granted, that is a fine reason not to do it
mircea_popescu: i'm in no case saying that w/e, any one in b-a *couldn't * correctly implement what alf is proposing./
mircea_popescu: i am however saying that no one here can implement it in zero time.
ascii_field can probably implement it in less time than building linux 3.18 took
mircea_popescu: wouldja stop ?! omai gawd.
ascii_field wishes to ask mircea_popescu for a favourite tarball of gpg, signed
mircea_popescu: dude keeps exposing himself to these cardano by xmas type of things. why all the self hate yo!
assbot: xkcd: Tasks ... ( )
brendafdez: ;;later tell BingoBoingo it doesn't like me. says too many redirects. links says same.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: just forget it, srsly. seed list can live on hdd with blockchain if the notion of hardcoded magic ip numbers makes you retch
mircea_popescu: that's a completely sufficient solution here, lettuce move on.
ascii_field will build rootfs tonight
ascii_field: for pogo/linux
ascii_field: if anyone has notions of what cmdline utils ought to be included - please say.
ascii_field: brb, car.
trinque: danielpbarron: that's all in busybox iirc
trinque: maybe not top, dunno
trinque: neh top is
assbot: BusyBox - The Swiss Army Knife of Embedded Linux ... ( )
danielpbarron: top might not be needed; i'm just listing the things I use on a regular basis on pogo
danielpbarron: i use top to watch for when bitcoind is done throwing a tantrum
danielpbarron: oh, sshd
trinque: if they're fire and forget anything that needs an open port is an attack vector
danielpbarron: in that case, none of what i just listed is needed
trinque: the disposable RTS unit thing rings true
trinque: the guy who buys this either can service, can buy a new one, or fuck off.. there's no support staff
danielpbarron: if the thing ascii is making will not sshd, anyone who wishes to help test will need to "adulterate" their pogo
trinque has simply read too much loper os, the blockchain telegraphy one in particular
jurov: did you solve the clock, does it need time sync at all?
trinque: bwah hah ha
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00023389 = 2.0933 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2015 01:58:25; asciilifeform: ^ above code will have to be changed to actually set the machine clock ?
trinque: ^ relevant perhaps, found via googling, heh! not via logs.b-a search
trinque: !up CheckDavid
trinque: !up mixdio
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> if the thing ascii is making will not sshd, anyone who wishes to help test will need to "adulterate" their pogo <<< plz to sshd!
trinque: if you give a mouse an sshd he's going to want his pubkey added
danielpbarron: it sounds like a very hard thing to do if you've never soldered before, but think of it as a good excuse to learn a new skill
danielpbarron: and it's not /so/ hard
nubbins`: i'm not soldering anything into more than one unit
danielpbarron: you only need one
nubbins`: wait, test, heh
trinque: my VPS has something attacking it at the moment, lol
mircea_popescu: brendafdez try now.
trinque: really wants to ssh in
nubbins`: anyway for the sake of popping it in there, keep sshd
brendafdez: mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.
BingoBoingo: The insanity would really be not filtering
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18380 @ 0.00024063 = 4.4228 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: <+danielpbarron> top << instead of this heavy weight bs, vmstat
mod6 has never liked top much
trinque: seems irrelevant, if you're in, you can already install stuff
mircea_popescu: <jurov> did you solve the clock, does it need time sync at all? << REAL CLOCKS KEEP THEIR OWN TIME!
danielpbarron: trinque> really wants to ssh in << me too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.0002424 = 5.1389 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: danielpbarron: nah I was talking about a bot attacking my VPS
danielpbarron: yeah me too
trinque: oh lol
trinque: hah I stopped getting hit when I mentioned it here
mod6: does anyone know where I might be able to get a gentoo vm?
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 17:48:05; ascii_field: (who don't appear to be logged in at present, but, still)
mod6: digitalocean has ubuntu/freebsd/fedora/debian/coreos/centos
trinque: mod6: I've got gentoo up on ec2
mircea_popescu: << this bit of nubbsy wisdom is perhaps the pivot for understanding what's to understand in this pogo debate.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:04:25; ben_vulpes: there is no friend/foe
mircea_popescu: there literally is no enemy. there can't be. bitcoin is agnostic in this sense.
mircea_popescu: the only option agents have is whether to exist or not exist.
mod6: trinque: ah, ok. thanks. i think i'll try to set up a local one first. my env is x86_64, but maybe vbox will let me run a x86_32 environment
mircea_popescu: there's no lever to toggle from enemy to friend or w/e.
assbot: Gentoo EC2 Tutorial / Bootstrapping | Rich0's Gentoo Blog ... ( )
mod6: thanks
mircea_popescu: << spot-check ?! why spot check. you check.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:04:58; ben_vulpes: and it'll remain that way until the block download thing is fixed to a) track node quality and b) spot-check blocks provided by high quality peers
mircea_popescu: << quite. ip6 doesn't exist for this purpose yet.
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 18:07:41; ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i recommend strongly against ipv6 in this machine
mod6: is there a preferred version of gentoo that I should test on?
trinque: wow. seriously, entries in auth.log every couple seconds until *just now*
trinque: IPs from all over china
trinque chuckles
mod6: danielpbarron: what version of gentoo are you using?
danielpbarron: 3.17.8-gentoo-r1
mod6: thanks :]
danielpbarron: trinque, same here
mod6: im confused here...
mircea_popescu: pastebin ips ?
trinque: danielpbarron: get ye some fail2ban
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah I will
trinque: and sign
nubbins`: sorry guise, misconfig on my chinese node botnet
mircea_popescu: well both of you, and compare.
trinque: danielpbarron: oh yeah, I've got those IPs
trinque: pasting in a sec
mircea_popescu idly looks
danielpbarron: someone is also doing the same to another ip address i have
danielpbarron: Blocking for >630secs: 40 danger in 4 attacks over 8 seconds
nubbins`: height=200150!
jurov: mod6 stage3 yes
mircea_popescu: << this is how a day of trilema looks like. average, 1-200 derps try.
assbot: dpaste: 18KNR7V ... ( )
jurov: just move the sshd to alternative port (best if it isn't in nmap shortlist)
mod6: thanks jurov
assbot: Moderator asks audience, "Who here thinks there will be a hard fork missile crisis?" /petertoddbtc raises his hand.
asciilifeform: l0l wat
asciilifeform: trinque: blockchain telegraphy << bootstrap flyer. you don't have a blockchain when the thing powers up
asciilifeform: sshd << i will include 'dropbear' (cut-down sshd used in routers) for the dev build. i don't expect to see it in the battlefield build.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there literally is no enemy... << this is a tough nut to crack, could use explanation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall the ancient discussion re "what if nsa held a bunch of btc" ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only option agents have is whether to exist or not exist << their purpose is to un-exist us.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron where was this ?
asciilifeform: spot-check ?! why spot check. you check << see latest thread re: tandem
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but there isn't a box in the windoze to input that purpose.
mircea_popescu: that's the big deal here.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: sshd-fail.txt << a balanced diet of 1) nonstandard port for the demon 2) 'fail2ban' or equivalent 3) just not giving a fuck - works for me
trinque: asciilifeform: the notable part is that attack stopped for both of us when I mentioned it
mircea_popescu: i think you may have a genetic explanation of intelligence there.
assbot: Shavers Enters Not Guilty Plea | ... ( )
mircea_popescu: (me last year, waiting for cab with dude in timisoara. cab kinda late. me : "check it out, i'ma light a cigarette and by the magical magic of smoking, it'll show up immediately.
mircea_popescu: mp lights cigarette, cab turns in immediately, mp is revered as god by the kid in question.)
trinque: danielpbarron: where does it end in your log?
asciilifeform routinely refers to umbrella as 'rain eliminator'
asciilifeform: (just as much as the cig is a cab-summoner!)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (me last year, waiting for cab with dude in timisoara. cab kinda late. me : "check it out, i'ma light a cigarette and by the magical magic of smoking, it'll show up immediately. << Most well known phenomenon associated with tobacco use
mircea_popescu: correlation of pseudorandom variables is a wonderfuil thing
mircea_popescu: !up jfdjdjdjdjrejeii
trinque: notably the thing never tries any username obviously associated with public info about me
mircea_popescu: thanks god for autotab.
trinque: just strange
asciilifeform: meowmix ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00023937 = 2.2022 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: probably chinese bots just crawling the internet for hostnames to poke
jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Meowmix is a cat food
asciilifeform: it is also a bozo who connects from jfdjdjdjdjrejeii's slash24
mircea_popescu: Mar 09 20:39:38 *HFSPLUS ( has joined #bitcoin-assets Mar 16 18:12:52 *Hannspree23 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets Mar 21 00:25:18 *ponyslaystation ( has joined #bitcoin-assets Mar 21 00:28:21 *ponyslaystation ( has joined #bitcoin-ass
mircea_popescu: ets Mar 21 19:48:59 *KatelynT ( has joined #bitcoin-assets Mar 22 16:33:52 *fhiejeurjjurru ( has joined #bitcoin-assets Mar 25 21:00:53 *jfdjdjdjdjrejeii ( has joined #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: for completeness.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun recall, who was that dude ?
jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Bsrack obama?
assbot: dpaste: 3EVB8XP: fuckbag IPs ... ( )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who was that dude << no idea, my best hypothesis is that he isn't alive at all but a script
nubbins`: jfdjdjdjdjrejeii did you?
jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Yeah im a troll whatever
jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: Who has an xbox one?
jfdjdjdjdjrejeii: I kick there ass in cod
trinque: !down jfdjdjdjdjrejeii
trinque: log shows a connect attempt every 1-2sec until Mar 25 16:33:40 PST
mod6: somehow i dl'd a live cd? o.O
trinque: also PSA, ec2's firewall thing now does outbound rules too
mod6: can anyone direct me to a installable gentoo iso for x86_32
mod6: this is annoying. sorry.
mod6: (non-live cd)
trinque: that's how you install it
trinque: boot the livecd then follow the handbook
mod6: it is?
trinque: yeah
mod6: D:
trinque: it's not that bad
trinque: great way to become acquainted with the internals too
mod6: we shuold just support slackware from floppy disks
trinque: boot cd -> partition drive -> untar stage3 -> build kernel -> set up grub
trinque: with some handwaving along the way
mod6: dear lord
mod6: if i use aws do i get to bypass this bullshit?
trinque: mod6: these guys have their own gentoo AMIs if you trust 'em
trinque: otherwise those bootstrap instructions are in order
jurov: mod6 what's the problem with handbook?
mod6: i wanna just work on bitcoin, not learn the in's and out's of gentoo :P
mod6: *sigh*
mod6: guess i'll give it a whirl. wth.
trinque: >linux
trinque: >i just wanna
trinque: lol
mod6: *stab*
assbot: #CBCAsks debate: Is politics broken? - Politics - CBC News ... ( )
trinque: mike_c: yeh that's the one I linked
jurov: "Starting in January 2015, we will ... cease building the 32-bit images"
mike_c: yeah, but there are still some on there
mike_c: from last november
assbot: Converting a VirtualBox VM to an EC2 AMI | Niftiest Software ... ( )
jurov: mod6 alternatively you can hire someone to configure the system *nudge* *wink*
mircea_popescu: argentina is so musically fucking weird omg...
mircea_popescu: they all sing the same song. they all sing the SAME SONG
assbot: Almost 10% more full nodes since this morning connected to the network. Over 400 more in US. Is there some sort of competition I don't know of ? : Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: the same song. they sing it. same. song.
nubbins`: heh!
mircea_popescu: yeah, the competition is called "mp said the nodes are the weakest point of bitcoin, bitcoin ppls are fixing it"
asciilifeform: what song ?
mike_c: mircea_popescu: maybe not. could be a much dumber reason. "It's all one node just with 600 addresses. This is what happens when you fucking pay people to sybil attack the network."
assbot: "BRASIL DECIME QUE SE SIENTE" CON LETRA HD - "Hit" de los Hinchas Argentinos en Brasil - YouTube ... ( )
mircea_popescu: they change the words. but the song fprever the same. no matter what happens. this is the song.
mircea_popescu: and amusingly they think it's some pop rock of the 70s.
mircea_popescu: mike_c the notion of "counting nodes" is bizarre in the first place.
mircea_popescu: why not count "water taps" while at it.
mircea_popescu: ie, most infrastructure nodes i know of work on SOME SORT ofload balancing or othewr, necessarily thus exposing variable ips to the world etc.
nubbins`: <nubbins`> anyway, only counting 0.8.x and above, that's like giving a population count of every country in the world, but excluding everyone under 5 feet tall.
nubbins`: and also only measuring the head of each household
nubbins`: i didn't know you were a foodie
mike_c: do they give any justification for the version requirement?
mircea_popescu: who they ?
mike_c: this retarded australian
mike_c: and/or the phoundation.
mircea_popescu: dawg... you wanna see comedy look through the foudnation voting thing. what justification ?
nubbins`: 'cause there was totally a hard fork duod.
nubbins`: earlier than 0.8 won't work
nubbins`: duod
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder they find the fridge 5 times a week
nubbins`: because changing a config setting in a peripheral piece of software is a fork
nubbins`: (duod)
assbot: goosegoosegoosegoose comments on TIL that when a cockroach touches a human it runs to safety to clean itself ... ( )
mike_c: ah, the great accident was around that version.
nubbins`: "My husband pushes me over to the sink and shoves my head under the faucet, trying to flush it out, but every millimeter of space in my ear is full of horrific cockroach. For some reason, he pulls my pajama top off. I still ask him why, but he doesn't know. Either he didn't want my shirt to get wet, or titties."
mod6: ok so what version of stage3 are people using from the mirror? 12.1, 12.0, 11.2... ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` hey, changing the world right ? like that chick changing they into whey or w/e
mod6: jurov: lol, this is supposed be a "quick" setup and test. didn't think it'd be a three hour tour.
mike_c: so use the ami..
mod6: or have to hire a captain
mike_c: you'll be up in 5 mins.
mod6: yah ok. fts
nubbins`: hi marteen
marteen: hi nubbins` :)
nubbins`: qu'est-ce que c'est?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i guess some folks don't own vacuum pumps ?
mike_c: mircea_popescu: life's too short to read the foundation forum. i flipped the bozo bit on them, no more research required :)
nubbins`: asciilifeform vacuum + ear?!
nubbins`: granted, her eardrum ended up getting shredded anyway.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: not whole ear!
asciilifeform: nubbins`: thin nozzle
nubbins`: just roach ass
nubbins`: i'm sure they had at least a turkey baster
nubbins`: but, y'know. panic.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that reddit is the most retarded shit i ever read.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu she'll have a series of novels out this year
mircea_popescu got bit by viper, chick in group sucked it out the next moment, me was fine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
nubbins`: i've never been bitten by anything more exotic than fire ants
jurov: dunno if you can get any chich to suck out the bug
mircea_popescu: their mouths don't work.
jurov: *chick
mircea_popescu: jurov so the problem suddenly isn't the bug
mircea_popescu: "i'll lick out his asshole but fuck take that bug away from me"
asciilifeform: the problem, if we continue with this valuable train of thought, - is almost never the bug, per se.
asciilifeform: it is always the available suction.
trinque got ass-bit by a brown recluse once, didn't bitch as much as the story
trinque: complete with dying flesh
mircea_popescu: notice that the idiots in question cost an emergency call, an er visit plus an emt visit later
mircea_popescu: plus drugs. hours out of the lives of a dozen + people, all supposedly skilled.
mircea_popescu: this is about as sustainable as a tower of liquid piss in the shape of roosevelt's wheelchair.
nubbins`: once, while on vacation, my mom got bitten on the face a couple times by some sort of spider
nubbins`: got all stiff etc
nubbins`: had to go to an AMERICAN HOSPITAL
mircea_popescu: nubbins`> i've never been bitten by anything more exotic than fire ants << for one thing fire ants are more exotic than vipers in carpathians. for the other, i would bet a lot more painful. poor snake's drastically overhyped
mircea_popescu: (so is scorpion, for that matter. most don't kill or anything)
nubbins`: it def didn't tickle
nubbins`: (on jungle walk. woman in front of me says "aah! ants!" then proceeds to try brushing them off WHERE SHE STOOD)
mircea_popescu: europe is particularly mild on this shit. you get stung by the tiny polen wasps that live ther,e it's like... mk.
trinque: they drained quite a bit of death out of my asscheek and thigh
mircea_popescu: get stung by nutso us wasp o may gawd...
trinque: I was drugged to hell, laughing about it
asciilifeform: what's in a wasp, anyway? formic acid ?
assbot: Kick-off Discussion: Existing Forum Temperature Check + Criticism ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24260 @ 0.00024259 = 5.8852 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends on the wasp, but not very well known really.
mircea_popescu: "apitoxin" is you know, one of those vinegars peterl analysed.
nubbins`: peptides+enzymes followed by norepinephrine followed by hyaluronidase and MCDP
mircea_popescu: some sort of quinone iirc.
asciilifeform: speaking of vinegars,
asciilifeform: the wine thing
nubbins`: that is to say, enzymes and more enzymes
asciilifeform: i think the 'wine experts' who don't get nailed by the food colouring experiment live in the same place as meta-nsa
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know this is something that you could pleasantly research ?
asciilifeform: (which is to say, the land of the i-can't-rule-it-out marvels)
mircea_popescu: there's no way they don't have that shit in dc, with all the dumb money floating about. take the girl out for a wine tasting show once
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was famously and publicly done not long ago, but i've misplaced the link
nubbins`: wine tasting shows are hilarious
asciilifeform: that was actually why i remembered.
nubbins`: sommelier friend of mine has worked a few
mircea_popescu: i'm not going to go as far as to say "date a french somellier chick that can actually tell you what you ate after you squirt her palate"
asciilifeform: thing is, i'm not sure if we have 'the genuine article' sort of expert around here
asciilifeform: not sure if the test was ever attempted in a 'serious' wine country
mircea_popescu: so wiat, is your thesis that this doesn't exist ? or what ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform the genuine articles are few and far between
asciilifeform: my thesis is that i've not a clue.
mircea_popescu: ah lol. so then my suggestion best avenue.
asciilifeform: 'It's all one node just with 600 addresses.' << ahahahaha.
asciilifeform picks self up from floor
nubbins`: asciilifeform there's 140 "master sommeliers" in usa
nubbins`: so maybe 25-50 legit
nubbins`: but... that aside,
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 15:00:24; *: nubbins` has admittedly never drunk wine costlier than $500/bottle but can verify that all the superfluous descriptors on the label are actually present
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2014 19:46:16; asciilifeform: the sad part is, 'cyranose' (1990s product based on an oddball solid state gas column) actually worked.
assbot: Logged on 10-06-2014 19:46:26; asciilifeform: locked up in patent purgatory to this day, afaik
nubbins`: oooo
asciilifeform: iirc works on wine
nubbins`: that's cool
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> get stung by nutso us wasp o may gawd... << There's a burrowing and colonizing Vespid species endemic here. When they nest in the yard it is time for the serious chemicals. Eradicating a nest will scar that part of the yard for years.
asciilifeform: to the point of outputting how many days in cask of what wood
nubbins`: great for finding food pairs!
nubbins`: twodogland is generally free of nasty vermin
asciilifeform: i still suspect that 'cyranose' was disappeared not only because useful in homeland severity (tm)
nubbins`: no snakes, raccoons, skunks, venomous spiders...
asciilifeform: but because it readily exposes fraudulent 'food'
asciilifeform: if programmed appropriately
nubbins`: scan a GMO apple
asciilifeform: and could be manufactured for a few usd
mircea_popescu: so next nsa product ?
asciilifeform: (solid-state carboniferous sensor)
nubbins`: "this isn't olive oil!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right after we can make even a z80 yes
asciilifeform refers 'gmo' enthusiasts to old thread
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.'
nubbins`: who maintains website?
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:40:01; asciilifeform: once you utter 'pro-' or 'anti-gmo' you're swallowed the stupid pill.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc it was jurov
nubbins`: jurov if this is correct, plz to small change?
nubbins`: <font face="courier" color="#00FF00" size="+1"> <<< size should be either not present, or -1
nubbins`: dat huge text
mod6: i do
mod6: is that better?
mod6: (removed the size attribute)
mod6: ok gentoo up and running...
mod6: building openssl first to ensure good build.
nubbins`: mod6 perf thanks
nubbins`: now the banner fits on my screen :D
ben_vulpes: persnickety sob
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25808 @ 0.00022673 = 5.8514 BTC [-]
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 349256 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 1527 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 52024434137.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 11.35951
nubbins`: ben_vulpes didn't ya hear, nobody cares unless it looks good? 8)
nubbins`: at least i suggest fixes ;D
TheNewDeal: ;;nethash
gribble: 379131327.415
TheNewDeal: sweet hash
ben_vulpes: y'r a dear
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 23:50:33; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron where was this ?
assbot: Stanford Blockchain Workshop (March 2015) ... ( )
danielpbarron: A workshop examining the interplay between blockchain technologies, including distributed cryptoledger, and existing legal infrastructure or regulatory regimes.
danielpbarron: The workshop will gather technologists, lawyers and entrepreneurs involved in the deployment of distributed blockchain-based applications. Topics discusses will sketch out a techno-legal framework to resolve the challenges facing applications of these technologies without hindering their distributed potential and decentralized character.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why no ssh in battlepogo?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: why no ssh in battlepogo? << Why SSH into a machine you have physical access to?
danielpbarron: well unless yours is adulterated, or at the very least set up for net console...
ben_vulpes: hm. i'll read your documentation before embarrasing myself further...
danielpbarron: it's not easy to get into the thing without ssh
danielpbarron: requires soldering
mod6: openssl built fine. building bdb now
mod6: <+nubbins`> mod6 perf thanks << no prob :]
danielpbarron: last time i tried to build bitcoind i got this far -> util.h:650:8: error: 'uint32_t' does not name a type
mod6: hmm. i suspect this could be an environment problem... but we'll see.
danielpbarron: for openssl i had to do the "make install_sw" thing
mod6: *local environment problem.
danielpbarron: yeah it probably is
mod6: na, ididn't have to do anything different for openssl.
danielpbarron: i stupidly put 32 bit OS on 64 bit laptop
mod6: i just used the (v0.0.5-32)
mod6: bdb is going now, we'll see how it comes out
mod6: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00020725 / 0.00022638 / 0.00025392 (885376 shares, 200.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00019609 / 0.00027433 / 0.00030622 (13180647 shares, 3,615.89 BTC), 30D: 0.00019609 / 0.0003465 / 0.0004493 (80475736 shares, 27,884.94 BTC)
mod6: !t m s.bbet
assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000065 / 0.00008962 / 0.00025 (136573 shares, 12.24 BTC)
mod6: ok bdb built fine.
mod6: now for boost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00022629 = 1.9687 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: kernel crashes.
asciilifeform: after 10 to 40 seconds of operation.
mod6: this your roll-ur-own one?
asciilifeform: stock sheevaplug under buildroot
asciilifeform: nothing cut yet
mod6: ah
asciilifeform: though i think i have a handle on why
asciilifeform: it wasn't the ill-fated sandisk sata flash.
asciilifeform: dies like clockwork
asciilifeform: i suspect a watchdog timer
mod6: :(
asciilifeform: there is nothing random about this crash.
mod6: this aws "small" is so much slower than "medium"
nubbins`: a timer!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00022633 = 2.6933 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: nubbins`: classic cause of predictable and rapid death on embedded boxes
asciilifeform: nubbins`: normally a register where you have to flip a bit every S seconds or power cycled
nubbins`: sabotage
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i don't know for a fact that this is happening here. just a hunch
asciilifeform: based on working with many similar systems before.
asciilifeform: watchdogs aren't evil, they are a sad necessity in the world of typical c programmers
asciilifeform: or would you like to reboot your car's ecu manually.
asciilifeform: nothing printed on system log
asciilifeform: so not a panic
mod6: hardware problem?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or would you like to reboot your car's ecu manually. << Plenty of people do to cars what you do to pogos
asciilifeform: this box is iron-stable running other items
nubbins`: this is vanilla 3.18 you're using?
asciilifeform: with whatever patches buildroot applies for kirkwood
asciilifeform: haven't read it all yet
asciilifeform: dies in 30.00 seconds of reset
asciilifeform: like fucking clock.
assbot: 3.18.3-1~exp1 : linux package : Debian ... ( )
nubbins`: maybe not relevant
nubbins`: "[armel/kirkwood]: Enable DEBUG_MVEBU_UART_ALTERNATE to match the behaviour
nubbins`: of previous boardfile based kirkwood kernels. Otherwise the kernel silently
nubbins`: crashes during boot."
nubbins`: ugh. sry
asciilifeform: it doesn't die during boot
asciilifeform: if you're quick on your feet, you get some console time
asciilifeform: (i built it with rootfs cemented in kernel just as a quick test, to avoid having to flash the nand. i have kernel load from lan via tftp for tests. with rootfs and all contents, it is around 21M.)
asciilifeform: but this is pretty obviously a mishandled timer
asciilifeform: 'drivers/rtc/hctosys.c: unable to open rtc device (rtc0)' during boot
asciilifeform: dollars to doughnuts it ends up switching on the watchdog countdown.
asciilifeform: while trying to init the rtc
decimation: re: wine > I took a class on winetasting in undergrad
decimation: my perception is that there is some science to it, but it's mostly bs
asciilifeform: pp. 368 table 117
decimation: at least, the tasting and the 'valuation' seem to be disconnected
asciilifeform: (and no, it is not available in any format other than pdf, nor is it remotely readable if put through garbage compactor and turned into text, fucking deal with it)
asciilifeform: decimation: when you get above the 'recycled piss' price point, i suspect the 'valuation' is 100% 'veblen good.'
decimation: asciilifeform: aye, agreed.
decimation: which is why argentina and chile are good places to find deals on reds
decimation: particularly malbec
mod6: ok
mod6: bitcoind builds statically on gentoo with (v0.0.5-32)
decimation: asciilifeform: if marvell are so keen on supporting 'open source' devel, why don't they support a proper kernel build?
mod6: there are some different warnings than i've seen before though. i'll rebuild the entire thing again for good measure and use `script` to record the build.
mod6: hang tight.
asciilifeform: decimation: they think their 2.6.something built with proprietary (segger?) buildatron is 'open source'
asciilifeform: i dropped the link to that turd here. can go and see for yourself
decimation: the problem with open source is that the source code might as well be on mars if nobody can read/use it
decimation: to be fair, I guess neither intel nor amd 'support' linux
decimation: except they probably both have staff working fulltime on the upstream kernel
assbot: Michigan legislation would make using drones to hunt or harass hunters a crime ... ( )
decimation: lol 'harass hunter' with a quadcopter
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00022629 = 3.7677 BTC [-]
PeterL: "The Michigan Department of Natural Resources hasn't received any complaints of hunters using a drone or getting harassed by a drone" << my representatives, hard at work solving problems they just invented
assbot: ChangeTip Hires Bitcoin Subreddit Moderator | ... ( )
decimation: why does this even need to be a law? isn't it obvious that if a flying object is 'harassing' you while you are armed, the proper answer is to shoot it?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Depends on what you are armed with. Shooting with shotgun fine. Proper rifle... Hard to tell when/where bullet is coming down after impact.
decimation: well, that's a fair point
mod6: ok one last thing before I rebuild... I needed to add the "-nodnsseed" to bitcoind upon start up otherwise it would just start and exit without doing anything
mod6: but now i've >10000 blocks
PeterL: sounds like a great new sport, like skeet shooting, but the target can move in any direction, just need to make a drone that is either so cheap it's disposable or which can withstand shotgun hits
BingoBoingo: Cheap to the point of disposable is prolly the better avenue
decimation: actually this raises an interesting jurisdictional problem - the faa claims jurisdiction over all airspace above 0 feet
decimation: how can the state of michigan regulate interstate commerce?
decimation: after all, the fcc claims to regulate your wifi
decimation: via the same interstate commerce clause
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, "ChangeTip BashCo" needs a comma?
danielpbarron: i wonder if that's the dude who banned me
BingoBoingo: Hard to say
nubbins`: well til what a watchdog timer is
nubbins`: asciilifeform the unit's got an rtc tho, it's just not seeing it?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: sees, fails to init
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have no evidence that the two events are connected. mere suspicion.
assbot: Pogoplug Mobile hardware support and device tree effort (Page 1) — Hardware Hacking — OpenWrt ... ( )
nubbins`: not sure if helpful
nubbins`: does list watchdog timer
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25241 @ 0.00022629 = 5.7118 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: << js paywall easy circumvention
BingoBoingo: << Complimentary lol "“My hands still have calluses from using No. 18 Weiss shear scissors to cut galvanized sheets to form gutters,” he said. “...You couldn’t afford a gutter today the way we made them.”
assbot: Metro-east news from Belleville, IL | Belleville News-Democrat ... ( )
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it's supported in the kernel i'm testing
asciilifeform: which may well be the root of the problem
asciilifeform: presently testing a build with this crap removed with hot iron
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron oh i c. stanford technologees!
asciilifeform: decimation: after 'wickard v. filburn', usg gained - perfectly legally - the power to regulate how many shits we may take per week
asciilifeform: on account of this, possibly, having an effect on 'interstate commerce.'
assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 02:26:12; asciilifeform: decimation: when you get above the 'recycled piss' price point, i suspect the 'valuation' is 100% 'veblen good.'
mircea_popescu: romania has (had ?) some exceptional wines at 5-10 dollars a bottle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: varies by locale
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when i say 'above recycled piss pricepoint' it means getting squarely above the 'for the poor' product category in usa
asciilifeform: which exists from wine to shoelaces
mircea_popescu: i broadly agree, but imo veblen-ness behaves strangely, as in : window. from about 100 to maybe 5 or 10k a bottle.
mircea_popescu: there's a very proper middle, there's good reason to pay 80 rather than 15.
asciilifeform can believe
mircea_popescu: there's a very proper top. there's a good reason to pay 850k
asciilifeform: what reason ?
asciilifeform: that item is now a 'rembrandt' and can be authenticated ?
asciilifeform: for an archaeological artifact - sure.
asciilifeform: but drinking your artifact is lunacy.
mircea_popescu: (this perhaps easily conglimerated with veblen - but is not same.
asciilifeform knows that it is not the same
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform similar phenomenon with virgin slavegirls.
asciilifeform: a 'rembrandt' here is simply an analogue bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: slavegirl either lost virginity around 15 or 20.
mircea_popescu: in the saner 17-18 yo middle, notmany.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00022633 = 4.8321 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: << the importnat part there is the 2nd clause. im sure buncha idiot nerds were becoming a pain.
assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 02:34:59; assbot: Michigan legislation would make using drones to hunt or harass hunters a crime ... ( )
mircea_popescu: otherwise, hunting from flight already soundly illegal.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it occurs to me, that shavers character is like out of a novel. first he gets a civil supoena that he doens't ignore. then he self represents. and doesn't do homework. then he loses the suit. civil suit. he loses it. then he pleads not guilty in criminal proceedings.
asciilifeform: hell, in usa electronically setting off the shell is banned
mircea_popescu: someone needs to tell him this civil-criminal thing is as close as it gets to double jeopardy in the us
mircea_popescu: and preserved deliberately - to fuck up... well, basically, him.
BingoBoingo: It really is
BingoBoingo: Then again the major reason to retain an attorney in the us is to avoid spam
mircea_popescu: how exactly is this strat supposed to go : i couldn't make the "preponderence of evidence" standard but i'll make the "absolute proof" ?
mircea_popescu: "The average tip amount across all platforms is has fallen to ~$0.91, while the average tip amount on reddit is only ~$0.37… we can do better!"
mircea_popescu: and PART TIME.
mircea_popescu: incredibly cheap, these clay footed giants.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> how exactly is this strat supposed to go : i couldn't make the "preponderence of evidence" standard but i'll make the "absolute proof" ? << That or make preponderance of evidence standard use as proof in criminal case
mircea_popescu: << drone meets buckshot tho... almost worth doing just to film it
assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 02:38:56; BingoBoingo: decimation: Depends on what you are armed with. Shooting with shotgun fine. Proper rifle... Hard to tell when/where bullet is coming down after impact.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but the usg (through usg->da) has already evaluated that
asciilifeform: just to film it << the chinese filmed it recently
mircea_popescu: you basing yourself on the theory usg->judge will != usg->da ?
asciilifeform: (link in log somewhere)
assbot: Logged on 26-03-2015 02:40:21; PeterL: sounds like a great new sport, like skeet shooting, but the target can move in any direction, just need to make a drone that is either so cheap it's disposable or which can withstand shotgun hits
asciilifeform: and for the type of flying machine normally encountered, 'birdshot' ought to suffice
mircea_popescu: best way to lose an eye is shoot shotguns at armored targets.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Oh my strategy? I retain lawyers because it forces opposition to route annoying phone calls through attorney
mircea_popescu: not yours lol. his.
BingoBoingo: Consider the example of a US bankruptcy case. You can cheaply and easily represent yourself if indigent, however you have to handle communications with all of the debtors, or... You scrape together enough to retain an attorney who has a process for handling that annoyance and also retain your sanity.
decimation: re: wine < yeah my perception is that > $10-15 is generally good. more expensive wines are also good, but there are loads of pretenders trying to get by on geography
decimation: once had an excellent german trockenbeernauslese for $50 and it was worth every penny
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo or you could just pipe awk through sed
BingoBoingo: But the shavers strategy seems to be only notable in the sense he pulled off a mega fraud in a space which at the time was especially gullible and vulnerable to mega fraud.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33227 @ 0.00022613 = 7.5136 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo or you could just pipe awk through sed << Hard on the phone.
mircea_popescu: you're not required to communicate via phone are you ?
mircea_popescu: what's this, mandatory webcam bankruptcy court ?
nubbins`: building cross-compile toolchain is slo-o-o-o-o-o-ow
BingoBoingo: USia, seriously messed up in the things people expect, legally
decimation: bankruptcy without debtor's prison is just silly
trinque: as is debtors prison without real money
decimation: heh good point
asciilifeform: usaschwitz is a gigantic open-air debtor's prison already.
nubbins`: debtor's prison = university
nubbins`: they make you go first, before you owe the money
mircea_popescu: i dunno, nubbins`. it'd be a lot better if the tit knew it's caged.
mircea_popescu: kinda what i like about eastern european campuses.
mircea_popescu: the tit doth know.
nubbins`: the tit abides
decimation: mircea_popescu: have you found any particularly good south american wines?
mircea_popescu: nope. i've found plenty perfectly acceptable tho.
mircea_popescu: actually, finding a bad one's more challenging.
decimation: yeah I've never been disappointed in random $10 malbec from chile/ar
mircea_popescu: i tihnk that;s pretty much it.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i wouldn't expect exceptional out of vineyards that aren;t even 500 years old.
mircea_popescu: but they do get the reasonable down pat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7801 @ 0.00022581 = 1.7615 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: heh. of course many of those french vineyards were decimated by the phylloxera plague
mircea_popescu: doesn't really matter. terroir's terroir..
mircea_popescu: people know wtf this is. etc.
nubbins`: whoops. dat make clean.
decimation: mircea_popescu: yes, indeed it is
decimation: bourdeaux has been overpriced by chinese bezzlars, but it is also legitimately fine tasting
mircea_popescu: also somewhat of an aquired taste.
decimation: for folks who are dubious about the specifics, you can generally pick out particular flavors on the 'flavor wheel' like one shown here:
assbot: Wine Aroma Wheel from UC Davis ... ( )
mircea_popescu: srsly, vinegar, alcohol and sulphur dioxide in the same box ?
mircea_popescu: mkay... nm.
decimation: cabernet sauvignon (one of the bordeaux grapes) often has a tobacco flavor for instance
decimation: the impressive thing really is that the knowledgeable winemaker can bring out so many different flavors with just grapes, yeast, toasted oak, and time
mircea_popescu: "tobacco flavour" is kinda like "beautiful woman looks", but hey
mircea_popescu: it's not really like carving. it's farming.
decimation: farming and processing
asciilifeform: 'What is the cause of a corked wine? The culprit is usually one of two reasons, TCA, which is short for 2, 4,6 Trichloroanisole. TCA is a type of fungus that occurs naturally. Because TCA is a natural fungi present in the bark of the cork tree, it can be easily be taken into the cork.' << who wants to kill something after reading this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00022717 = 4.8842 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: << I can recieve and store pallet; have access to dock plate / forklift / pallet jack / etc
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 05:12:04; mircea_popescu: nubbins` can you store a pellet ?
mircea_popescu: cool, but meanwhoile the pellet seemed dudsy
danielpbarron: for future reference if the right unit comes up
nubbins`: i read it as pallet earlier. i can store pellets.
danielpbarron: at 2 USD per, that's still a great deal
danielpbarron: the blue unit is very nice too
nubbins`: wonder if "national liquidation" selling em on amazon would cut a deal
nubbins`: probably no huge incentive for them to
danielpbarron: not with the sudden surge of people buying "crates" of them
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