Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-02-02 | 2015-02-04 → ↓
asciilifeform: trinque: this is after nubbins` prints the book
trinque: sure
mod6: well, sooner or later this turd is gonna fail
trinque: I look at this api and say "surely there are not this number of core abstractions..."
trinque: the fuck is this?
mod6: i'll put together some log snippits when it does
trinque: rdbms is for modeling problems; best tool there is for that
trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke
trinque: "sorry database, I don't know the data I want by name. You're supposed to tell me that..."
trinque: I think I'll just give deedbot an out to spend and when it's depleted it's done, insert another please
asciilifeform: trinque: chisel is not simply a very thin and unpleasant hammer.
asciilifeform: no matter how many times abused
trinque: the problem with that approach is splits
trinque: *the problem with not recalculating all spendable outs each time and then picking one
trinque: which, is one confirmation even enough to deal with that?
trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
trinque: asciilifeform: rdbms is the surgical one, I hope
trinque: now I understand why some idiot did a "crypto coin in couchdb"
trinque: not like couchdb is any worse than any other of these
trinque: turns out a lot of the code we wrap these kv stores in looks a lot like shitty constraints, shitty transactions, shitty referential integrity, etc
trinque: but that should be reinvented each time because speed
fluffypony: trinque: the worst is when they create a "fast, distributed key-value store" and then a couple of years later they get pressured into adding "fully atomic transactions" which ends up needing consistency, and so that becomes "full ACID support", and then fast-forward a few years and you have them inventing a "SQL-like query language"
fluffypony: and they're two steps away from having re-invented an RDBMS
trinque: fluffypony: yeah, the things ether are useless or are shitty SQS
trinque: *SQL
trinque: and when you're working on something that potentially involves the wealth of goddamn kings...
trinque: lets not invent a database poorly as part of the problem
fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries
asciilifeform misread as 'Waffen DB'
trinque: heh I like the line from the "mongo is webscale thing"
trinque: about writing to /dev/null because obviously that'd be insanely fast
fluffypony: 100% in-memory, never spools to disk
fluffypony: just don't ever restart
trinque: the whole document store thing too, that's just looking at the net, accepting it as gospel
trinque: then saying well fuck, since documents are right, obviously, lets do that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 252150 @ 0.000391 = 98.5907 BTC [+] {4}
fluffypony: asciilifeform: "waffle" is my go-to when I talk hypotheticals...WaffleCoin, WaffleOS, WaffleDB
mod6: i guess maybe one other time it ran a long time like this until it ran out of memory and blew its brains out
trinque: fluffypony: there'll be one eventually
fluffypony: no doubt
fluffypony: then I'll have to stop using the name
trinque: "inventing" a new "database" is just like farting out an altcoin these days
trinque: nevermind the 40 years of research that culminated in modern rdbms
asciilifeform: ^ interesting
fluffypony: at least when they "invent" a new database they can invent silly architecture without caring about cryptography...the amount of retarded cryptography in the altcoin space is scary
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: phoundation claims their 512 hardseeds are selected therein
assbot: bitcoin/README.md at 7b879d3493e5b51c60522f71657941bd62e29334 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1D86D7A )
mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there
trinque: fluffypony: when I finally learned lisp it was the same feeling towards every other scripty language
trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this?
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0FPDE7Y.txt )
mod6 bed
assbot: Bitcoin Elite to Gather on Secret Island for Bilderberg-Style Retreat ... ( http://bit.ly/1D87w03 )
fluffypony: lulzy
trinque: fluffypony: bilderberg is right
trinque: why don't they just invite the phoundation to the real one
fluffypony: they're not cool enough
trinque: they can discuss how best to attach bitcoin to the side of a sinking ship
fluffypony: BarnacleCoin
fluffypony: no no wait, BarnacleChains
trinque: heh
asciilifeform: jurov: for shame.
asciilifeform: jurov: i post a mega-study of phoundation's nodes and your turdatron swallows it
asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp.
asciilifeform: ^ because who knows when he'll wake up
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
asciilifeform to sleep
punkman: there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up.
punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?"
punkman: granted, I'm not in drone country and the paranoia feels a couple decades early.
cazalla: i dunno, "goodbye" sounds a bit prophetic, i'd be getting the tinfoil hat and shotty, parachute at the ready
punkman: (actually says "Goodbye", not translated, with a somewhat american accent)
cazalla: mebe telemarkets and auto dialer couldn't find anyone free at the call centre to put you through to
cazalla: telemarketer
punkman: cazalla: yeah most likely
punkman: !up The20YearIRCloud
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $40 before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1096/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 26(Y):74(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.65433047 BTC. Current weight: 34,443.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $30 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1112/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.99351 BTC. Current weight: 85,744.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1649 @ 0.0009468 = 1.5613 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 159 @ 0.00637779 = 1.0141 BTC [-]
jurov: uff.. three discarded msgs from btc-dev?
jurov: kakobrekla: is there a database? or any way to query http://w.b-a.link by keyid?
jurov: !ident assbot
jurov: !ident jurov
jurov: ;;ident jurov
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@impr-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net', is not identified.
jurov: nah, querying by key id is bad idea anyway
punkman: jurov, any idea why my msg was dropped?
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2015 05:25:29; kakobrekla: whoever was asking for wot db dumps http://files.bitcoin-assets.com/wot/
assbot: 8 results for 'wot database' - #bitcoin-assets search
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3350 @ 0.00094179 = 3.155 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was not able to determine why sig is bad. pls pastebin the original
jurov: punkman: your email client wordwrapped the clearsigned text, i was able to undo it
jurov: everyone PLEASE either wordwrap text before signing, or attach it as file so that email client as no chance to munge it (you can leave empty body then)
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2015#1004094 <<< transactions usually make it accross chain forks
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 05:11:42; trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork?
chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :)
punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx
punkman: fukken wordwrap!
punkman: can't even find option to turn it off.
jurov: which client?
punkman: squirrelmail
mod6: wow this thing ran all night wedged @ 168,000: but didn't die http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=384mvxXm
mod6: wtf
mod6: anyway, later.
mod6: oh yeah, i stopped it for now. i'll mess with it later tonight.
assbot: RFC 2822 - Internet Message Format ... ( http://bit.ly/1DARU33 )
davout: what looks like the correct solution -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2045#section-6.7
assbot: RFC 2045 - Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (MIME) Part One: Format of Internet Message Bodies ... ( http://bit.ly/1DAS76v )
jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of user interfaces that display these messages which may truncate, or disastrously wrap, the display of more than 78 characters per line" OMFG
punkman: just piles of stupid
jurov: if attached, it will get converted into quoted-printable or such. but few email clients are able to do it with body, too
jurov: imma using the phrase "it got disastrously wrapped" from now on
davout: kek
PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website.
coderwill: Hello, good day/evening all!
PeterL: good morning coderwill
coderwill: thanks
PeterL: usually "good day" is what you say when you leave, not with hello ;)
coderwill: hehe, I know a few latin americans that might disagree w/ that sentiment.
PeterL: using English?
coderwill: that's an interesting question - I would say yes, but that I debate whether or not that is actually English or a regionalism
coderwill: If you ever read or listen to Alan Watts this topic gets really subjective. :)
assbot: You can earn $13,000 a year selling your poop - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/18KhJUR )
PeterL: jorov: if messages get disastrously wrapped, could your program automatically unwrap them?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00038822 = 2.4846 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132800 @ 0.00038242 = 50.7854 BTC [-]
artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections.
PeterL: which language are you writing it in?
lobbes: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html << I see y'all went for the 'hacker-green-and-black' after all
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7YzgA )
jurov: lobbes, have you seen http://mpex.co/?r=1 ?
jurov: PeterL: asciilifeform's email had about hundred lines. if you make me a code that can unwrap them right in polynomial time...
mircea_popescu: trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke << you don't understand the power ranger power range!
mircea_popescu: berkley db WAS NO GOOD because not modern enough. key value stores not a problem. those are good.
mircea_popescu: trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork? << things can't end up detimestamped in the first place.
mircea_popescu: tx is either in the main chain or in the mempool. the forks/orphans/we are irrelevant.
lobbes: jurov: aha, I had not for some time. I'm digging the new look
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: "but WaffleDB is so much faster than mysql!" - which is a great argument if you're counting pageviews or storing log entries <<< yeah, which is a great argumrent too bad it's irrelevant.
assbot: Postgres Outperforms MongoDB and Ushers in New Developer Reality « The Postgres Blog from EnterpriseDB ... ( http://bit.ly/1AomvD3 )
jurov: "new reality" my ass.
mircea_popescu: no, it is. new "web" reality.
mircea_popescu: ie, the reality produced by the "consensus" of the "community" of "developers" on twitter.
thestringpuller: jurov: yea. that was a really big story when it first came out. A lot of people started migrating of mongodb
thestringpuller: d00d in office used to joke about the mongodb coffee mugs they had given us
thestringpuller: "I'm going to drill holes in the bottom of all the mugs to illustrate a point"
mircea_popescu: mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there << no. look at that shit!
mircea_popescu: there are 1433 nodes with 90% uptime
jurov: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/24JKHJD.txt )
mircea_popescu: there are 323 nodes with 99% uptime.
mircea_popescu: and just 60 with 99.9% uptime.
thestringpuller: MP where are you getting these stats?
mircea_popescu: people keep derping about uh oh, 7k nodes. BULLSHIT. we're down from 270k to 61.
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 05:21:45; asciilifeform: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/seeds.txt
mircea_popescu: and whilke this massacre's going on, "uh oh, 20mb blocks, it will work fine"
mircea_popescu: gavin's mother on black cocks will work fine.
mircea_popescu: "economic lolexperts in webeconomies have reviewed the fact that they have nfi what's what , what matters and where to look"
mircea_popescu: according to the five year old, the burning house is no immediate cause of concern, he has his teddy.
thestringpuller: MP how was this list created?
thestringpuller: or is that ALF question?
asciilifeform: jurov: if i attach it as attachment, will it display as normal message in turdatron (special case rule ?)
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller go to -dev ask sipa
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see this_is_lame.txt
mircea_popescu: why ask me!
jurov: yes, clearsigned texts display directly in archive
asciilifeform: ^ that in fact was the letter that turdatron swallowed
jurov: ok, lemme see diff
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read that off the mail list ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no you didn't
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you read the 'go for tea' letter
asciilifeform: (there's a few lines of code from that one in here)
mircea_popescu: what im not halucinating i saw a oh diff similar one ?
jurov: alf, presumably your email client did this:
asciilifeform: 10 whole lines were same, i think
jurov: < 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50% 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
jurov: > 1.33.197.110:8333 1 1422939389 99.99% 99.40% 99.29% 87.54% 74.50%
jurov: > 341734 00000001 70001 "/Satoshi:0.8.6/"
mircea_popescu: why are we calling him alf again ?
asciilifeform doesn't know
jurov: why not?
mircea_popescu: trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this? << but... http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreenspunsTenthRuleOfProgramming
assbot: Greenspuns Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1uUgLKi )
mircea_popescu: jurov sure but i thought there was some funny story involved
jurov: !s alf
assbot: 40 results for 'alf' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=alf
asciilifeform: incidentally, i have no idea who sipa is, but does appear to do much of the gruntwork in phoundation's bitcoind
mircea_popescu: o hey good idea. why didn't i think of that!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pieter wuille. one of the more sane people involved.
asciilifeform: looks vaguely east asian in his github icon
mircea_popescu: currently doing something on sillycon funds with gmaxwell as a public whore.
asciilifeform: seems like he wrote most or all of the post-0.5.3 stuff that actually works
asciilifeform: e.g., the stuff i backported
mircea_popescu: yes, a supermajority. bluematt did mopst of the post 0.5.3 testing that's not retarded,
mircea_popescu: and there;'s a coupla more folks i wouldn'
mircea_popescu: t negrate on sight
asciilifeform: uptimes << who is surprised ?
mircea_popescu: who with a clue is ever surprised by the facts of any matter in discussion ?
asciilifeform: by definition, lol
mircea_popescu: but the point is, since some of the brighter young minds on forum have taken to reading the logs, pointing out the plain obvious now and again is god's work
asciilifeform: ergo the experiment described in this_is_lame.txt - probably did not say anything new to the folks here, but may benefit the students
jurov: phoundation's seeds replaced with this_is_lame.txt, distributed
jurov: mircea can do the same to get his email out
mircea_popescu: jurov im reading the logs see why my email died, haven't gotten therer yet but will presently.
mircea_popescu: "All programs have been written, and that program is Lisp. With perfection already attained, implementation is left to the ignorant who do not already know the truth of this." << shit, now i know why i don't code.
mircea_popescu: "solved problem'
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: no no wait, BarnacleChains << win.
asciilifeform: 262474.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: without so much as a burp. << you knoiw you keep saying this, but it's an email drop. how would you want it to burp ?
mircea_popescu: if it did, how would you hear it.
asciilifeform: it has no mouth
asciilifeform: cannot burp
asciilifeform: but frustrating.
mircea_popescu: short of implementing the phantomcircuit hack and emailing everyone who ever emailed it anythging the whole error log every time
asciilifeform: at least we oughta bake a 'lint' for these msgs
asciilifeform: i'll probably do it
mircea_popescu: punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?" << just checking the line's still live.
thestringpuller: !s this_is_lame.txt
assbot: 1 results for 'this_is_lame.txt' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=this_is_lame.txt
TomServo: I noticed a fully-synced node maintains its IRC connection. I was curious if that's desirable, and also if that means you're made a candidate to fill other nodes?
jurov: asciilifeform: how do you propose the lint would work? run on saved mailbox?
mircea_popescu: TomServo the latter yes.
jurov: in any webmail, you can save the finished message as draft and then try to gpg verify the text. that should take care of 90% of above problems
mircea_popescu: jurov http://pastebin.com/eYVsfbYD << pastebin of original
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The enclosed 1386667 bytes f - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoubVU )
mircea_popescu: chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << better than darmkail and other bs at any rate.
mircea_popescu: punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx << no. there's exactly no reason for deedbot to have block awareness. if the tx disappears, it should not notice.
mircea_popescu: so that we will.
mircea_popescu: jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of <<< specification made to accomodate the implementation. welcome to the world of braindamage, or where do you think civil engineers that flunked go ? computer science!
mircea_popescu: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever.
mircea_popescu: PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website. << not substantially different from the "scan the web" notion. more democracy.
mircea_popescu: a node of unknown provenance doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: would you eat a chunk of cheesy-looking substance you found on the sidewalk ?
trinque: punkman: "droned" << heh, I just got a call from a weird number saying they received a package addressed to me
trinque: ...anthrax!
mircea_popescu: why then would you read nobody's opinion in the newspaper or try to digest a random chunk of online nonsense.
assbot: Greencodds Tenth Rule Of Programming ... ( http://bit.ly/1AowacR )
mircea_popescu: jurov btw i can guarantee my client did no skullduggery to the email. i have the outgoing saved as sent by the mta.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i am suprised list has nothing under 0.8
thestringpuller: does this mean phoundation is trying to hijack nodes?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it
mircea_popescu: 's not a very good list.
thestringpuller: Iterpret the results for me
jurov: mircea_popescu: your pastebin doesn't verify
mircea_popescu: eh get out ?!
jurov: show raw, saved it and... bad sig
mircea_popescu: jesuswtf
mircea_popescu: well... resigning
mircea_popescu: ok my client is doing some unspecified mangling somewhere wtf.
mircea_popescu: jurov resent, with signed material attached as file. still nothing there apparently.
mircea_popescu: artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections. << sounds pretty good.
asciilifeform: jurov: lint would be run locally. by the rest of us.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ErikNaggum << check that out.
assbot: Erik Naggum ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoA2uh )
mircea_popescu: funny how things change. "PaulGraham's evil twin." ? rly ?
asciilifeform: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project << would have to be present at every hop of the message. a direly implausible project, sadly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just let it SEND what you want.
mircea_popescu: you know ? i'm all ready to go back to bang paths over here.
TomServo: he railed against using period << ?!
mircea_popescu: just as long as i get back the control, i see no problem with !derp!herp!router!alf
asciilifeform: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever. << the space scuttle was, according to legend, sized so that the typical american bridge could safely pass it. likewise legend holds that this was just short of true, and many bridges (not to mention roads) had lives considerably shortened by the scuttle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the shuttle ?!
mircea_popescu: it lands at an airport like everything else dunnit ?
TomServo: "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified. (At least COBOL and SQL managed to use a period.)" heh
asciilifeform: the tanks
asciilifeform: had to travel
asciilifeform: for political reasons - full
asciilifeform: then it was assembled and launched
asciilifeform: every time.
asciilifeform thought this was commonly known
asciilifeform: perhaps not outside of gringolandia
mircea_popescu: TomServo i dunno why he's so strung up on it ; semicolon is perfectly fine way to end things ; it also happens to be the traditional english ending of "separable entities that are for ulterior reasons strung together".
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
TomServo: Came across that looking for a tirade against the period - asciilifeform any help?
asciilifeform: TomServo: can't recall such a thing
the_scourge: need to put a warning about needing a cloak in this chan :)
asciilifeform: we used to have one
asciilifeform: then ddoser took a vacation, it sorta vanished
the_scourge: um... recently? as in the last 5 hours? :)
the_scourge: i JUST got ddos'd once last night and twice earlier today
asciilifeform: then we can presume he's back in business.
the_scourge: yes very much so
mircea_popescu: more like back in hobby.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: didja measure?
the_scourge: and it was one of the more impressive ones i've ever seen, and i used to see top quality ones on a daily basis
the_scourge: asciilifeform: it totally saturated at least 2 full gigabit fibre terminii
mircea_popescu: packet count is more on point.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: from packet dumps taken by myself and at least 2 other folks here, appears that mr. ddos uses mainly 'amplification' method (ssdp, ntp)
the_scourge: but what's most interesting is the shape of the traffic and the packets... i was plugged into a sub-campus and it would appear that it was using dynamic discovery protocol over http for amplification (using any device that supports it)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73600 @ 0.0003716 = 27.3498 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: it is actually a bit hard to take a proper capture of ddos (as in, all or even most of the packets) with common equipment
the_scourge: yes it was ssdp, i couldn't remember (brain fart and i'm home chilling)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: the network guys at $my_client are actually top-notch
asciilifeform: well sure
asciilifeform: but that's what makes it a dos
asciilifeform: overwhelms routing equipment
the_scourge: they brought a wireshark dump over to my desk
asciilifeform: you end up with, at best, a statistical sample
the_scourge: asciilifeform: oh yah totally
asciilifeform: the_scourge: would you care to post it publicly ?
the_scourge: i didn't ask for the USB stick
mircea_popescu: cool story bro.
the_scourge: this is a paying client. even though everything pointed to me being targeted, i still didn't want to make more noise than i already had
asciilifeform: we have at least two posted by regulars - one that was entirely ssdp (from buggy upnp in consumer routers) and another that was mostly ntp (likewise misconfigured embedded electronics)
the_scourge: oh weird
the_scourge: this definitely had ntp as well
asciilifeform: the_scourge: i've discovered that cellular modems, at least in the way they are operated in usa, are immune to this type of ddos.
asciilifeform: funnily enough
asciilifeform: (they are nearly useless for everyday life)
the_scourge: and sadly i was on a VERY VERY VERY large very flat network with more class A IPs than ... almost any other entity on the planet. and lots of buggy ssdp routers all over the place 'cause of the (phys) architecture
asciilifeform: the telco drops anything at all coming your way that isn't part of a tcp connection you established earlier
jurov: mircea_popescu: the email is out, after a bugfix (to account for application/pgp mimetype properly)
mircea_popescu: this is how it's supposed to work anyway
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yah we ended up having to use another contractor's LTE just to try to google some of the fingerprints
mircea_popescu: jurov yay!
the_scourge needs to get LTE of some kind but is a bit of a nutter about that kinda shit
mircea_popescu: jurov uh but how do i fin the file ?
mircea_popescu: o nm lol
mircea_popescu: found it.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: LTE << what country ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ty!
mircea_popescu: !up sergiohlb
the_scourge: asciilifeform: UK for most business needs
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news, i dreamed up a new licensing model which teh foundation and us generally might wish to consdier.
mircea_popescu: ima write it up and lookingforward to comments.
the_scourge: also, north america sometimes. but right now i just need a UK dongle that has chinese backdoors instead of american
the_scourge: do the russians make LTE hotspots? they've started making smartphones with e-ink, but it's a shame i didn't hear about it until after i went off of smartphones entirely
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'sparkfun corp.' sells a lte simcard good for 6 months, ~80 usd
asciilifeform: usa-only iirc
asciilifeform: the_scourge: huawei corp makes lte modems
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
the_scourge: assbot is a liar
asciilifeform: get in wot the_scourge
the_scourge: i thought i was... one sec
the_scourge: oh wait, i've only set up my gpg key, do i need to associate a bitcoin address as well?
asciilifeform: gpg suffices
asciilifeform: are you logged in under same nick ?
the_scourge: 16:45 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user the_scourge with key 300A9F6A3D0564B4
assbot: #bitcoin-otc gpg key data ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoFYDR )
PeterL: aha, needs to be assbot
asciilifeform: kakobrekla, is the_scourge in the new assbot wot ?
the_scourge: oh of course
the_scourge: do i just do the same dance with assbot?
the_scourge: the docs made it seem like assbot used the otc WOT
assbot: irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1vn4pjB )
asciilifeform: the_scourge: not long ago, kakobrekla finished a rework of wot. so there are a few hiccups
asciilifeform: try the '!register' function
the_scourge: with.... gribble?
asciilifeform: with assbot
asciilifeform: see the earlier link
chetty: That’s right — 77 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds in the new survey could not name even one US senator in their home state
asciilifeform: chetty: expect this number to reach 99+ as the residual fucks given re: political apparatus waft away
chetty: more than nine in 10 of the 18- to 34-year-olds plan to vote in the 2016
trinque: how hard is it to pick a favorite color out of two?
asciilifeform: chetty: a good many otherwise well-informed, educated folks in late ussr could not name very many muppets either
chetty: well it has rather ceased to matter, get screwed by the red or by the blue, who cares
asciilifeform: folks enjoy the ritual of 'choosing' left- or right-handed thread on the screw
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like your post was originally rejected by turdatron because it did not contain a machine-readable signature for the tarball
asciilifeform: your statement that said tarball must not be used except for research should have gone into the signed message body
asciilifeform: turdatron wants a machine-readable standalone sig (just the --pgp-- block) for every attachment.
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it's not in the signed body where did you get it from ?
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html << i think jurov slipped this through manually. there is no message body, signed or otherwise
jurov: yes, on it
jurov: it should show body
asciilifeform: jurov: that's not the problem i'm talking about. rather, the fact that turdatron could not possibly have processed this message on its own.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no message body cause when i put it in the body it got mangled to hell
mircea_popescu: anyway, explain to me like i'm slow, there's a problem with the thing as presented ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: turdatron, as originally built, expects a pattern like this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html
mircea_popescu: you get a hash of the file and an explanation of purpose in the signed attachment, seems reasonable ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: it is supposed to show directly the clearsigned text that was used to validate the message
asciilifeform: there is (optionally) message body; then, for each attachment, there is a detached-sig
mircea_popescu: jurov oh as opposed to attached ?
jurov: regardless of any other attachemnts
mircea_popescu: jurov can convention be that if body is empty 1st attachment = body ?
mircea_popescu: (somehoiw i thought this was the case)
asciilifeform: i think jurov is working on that one
mircea_popescu: aha okies.
mircea_popescu: poor jurov, he's getting stretched here.
jurov: yes, that's what i'm doing. it just insists that application/pgp is not text
asciilifeform: this was, afaik, the only known answer to the mutilations
mircea_popescu: well it is not text, technically, because you can also send it as binary.
mircea_popescu: should i force clearsigned material be saved as .txt ?
jurov: wait, you can clearsign in binary?
mircea_popescu: nope. but i could have, and the file'd have been .asc too
jurov: yes, saving it as txt would help. but best to fix it for once.
mircea_popescu: (i imagine it goes by file extension)
the_scourge: will assbot search long keyids on keys.gnupg.net?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not surprised in the slightest ?
mircea_popescu: it's not me trying to build a parallel, closed universe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: purpose of experiment was to demonstrate the fact of.
asciilifeform: (said universe)
mircea_popescu: yup. and in that it succeeds.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: who was asserting that there were nodes < v0.8
asciilifeform: the_scourge: no one.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but i was digging for proof that a) there are < 0.8 nodes in the candidate list b) none were selected
asciilifeform: and found it.
the_scourge: oh yah i see
the_scourge: why would they select such a node? surely no reason other than "this operator is keeping up to date" would need to be given
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if, say, it were a random selection
the_scourge: reading
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the only genuine oddity is that the selection process was not described
asciilifeform: or, at the very least, i was not able to find such a description
asciilifeform: in their published material
asciilifeform: if it is in there after all - i'd appreciate a pointer.
the_scourge: i'm being a mong with this !register command
asciilifeform: my current working hypothesis is that the 512-list contains 'stratfors' or similar animals
asciilifeform: little burrowing underground animals
the_scourge: i've given it my long key id... it says invalid (so quickly i have a hard time believing it even did a search)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla ^
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1637 @ 0.00096996 = 1.5878 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ask kakobrekla when he awakens
asciilifeform: he is the author of assbot
the_scourge: cool thanks
the_scourge: idk man i appreciate your sleuthing and keep it up but holding the btc foundation's feet to the fire will NEVER work
asciilifeform: what means 'work' in this context
the_scourge: like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you will find that one of the more interesting ideas we run with in #b-a is that public opinion isn't a particularly interesting concept re: bitcoin
asciilifeform: it's rather like public opinion of the atomic bomb
the_scourge: well i take it your goal is to prevent nefarious hijacking of bitcoind, done in such a way that everyone upgrades and long after it is realized that the network is resultingly compromised?
asciilifeform: not especially enthusiastic, but it doesn't keep the neutrons in
the_scourge: which, the seed nodes would be a good vector for such a thing
the_scourge: ok, but public opinion will determine who uses what version/implementation of bitcoind, and a seed node can be packaged with said distribution
assbot: A new software licensing paradigm pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2vwAL )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 ^ does that sound like something teh foundation might support ?
asciilifeform: the protocol is sufficiently well-designed, and vintage nodes sufficiently abundant (esp. among miners) that said hijacking presents little more than an annoyance at present (see mod6's experiment last night.)
the_scourge: is the experiment discussed in last night's logs?
asciilifeform: but it does not follow that, if you can hear mice in the walls but have not yet discovered their turds in your cupboards - mice are harmless and ought to be let alone
asciilifeform: the_scourge: yes
mircea_popescu: <the_scourge> like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago << public opinion only matters in fiat backed worlds.
mircea_popescu: in gold backed words, that game wasn't lost, nor was it ever played.
the_scourge: right so you're saying nefarious things are being attempted but the attempts are hopeless even within the main branch of blockchain
mircea_popescu: part of why we're here is exactly that : making paper money impossible -> making the welfare governments impossible -> making the "public oppiunion" impossible -> undo the numerous errors of the 20th century.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: right, i was talking about the world at large. you can stick a fork in journalistic integrity, it's done
the_scourge: er, maybe i blame the mob more than their journalists... whatever
mircea_popescu: you can also stick a fork in "representative democracy" equally done.
the_scourge: 20th century? a bit myopic? otherwise i agree
mircea_popescu: jurov o splendid, i got a mod notice and everything. i like how this works.
mircea_popescu: !up Jrum
the_scourge: wanting to undo the new deal and sufferage etc only makes you a slightly redder republican, or a backbencher tory
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: im neither. i'm a fucking guelph. that's a white flag you see behind, and the battle is for imperial immediacy not bs.
the_scourge: ok, so other than the microscope paper (which is a bit high-level) what exactly can/should/could be done with bitcoin itself? why not just skip to working on the other stuff and let the existing bitcoin maintainers work out their shit. there are plenty of people who oppose the foundation already
asciilifeform: which is the 'other stuff'
the_scourge: imperial immediacy ... gonna have to look that one up :)
asciilifeform: particle physics ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i propose name 'piratic license'
the_scourge: asciilifeform: comms, hardware, 'corporate' governance, sovereignty techology
asciilifeform: or, if you prefer something more orcish, the hajduk licence.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: this means bitcoin in much the same way that computing means semiconductor.
the_scourge: admittedly, that last one consists of 'shit that already exists' - small unit tactics. but a lot of it is high-tech and needs work
asciilifeform: bitcoin - the actual bitcoin, that, contrary to popular notion, still functions - is the semiconductor for all of these.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, let them come up with that.
chetty: when did Erik Voorhees get to be a 'VC' ?
mircea_popescu: name should be based on the actual world not on the current
mircea_popescu: chetty perhaps once stalin gave him a license ?
the_scourge: a victoria cross ... omg
asciilifeform likes names based on distant pasts
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the notion that anyone works on bitcoin or in any manner relevant to bitcoin outside of this channel is laughable on its face.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'vc' around here typically refers to the american financial term
the_scourge: cool, can you clarify? i like prose so feel free to link
asciilifeform: 'venture capital'
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i know i make good joke!?
asciilifeform: it's more sad than funny
asciilifeform: though i prefer 'vulture capital'
chetty: well last I heard he was a convict, so I guess we know who is greasing his palm
mircea_popescu: never went to trial did he ?
asciilifeform: chetty: iirc he was fined in a civil court
chetty: plea afaik
asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter
asciilifeform: but - ianal!
asciilifeform: in ru world this is called 'administrative penalty'
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on your assertion? i don't like making assumptions
chetty: riiight, and I am sure he will now be a good boy
asciilifeform: (possible criminal complaint if you don't pay, and referred to collections apparatus as a civil debt)
mircea_popescu: the_scourge which one
the_scourge: "the notion that anyone"
mircea_popescu: seems pretty plain.
the_scourge: ok well define 'bitcoin' then in the context... like it or not LOTS of people are working on lots of implementations which lots of people are using/will use
the_scourge: so if we're talking about the main fork of the chain, then... idk you have to ellaborate
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you may be aware that bitcoin network does not function by 'vote' of the nodes.
asciilifeform: but in a rather different way
mircea_popescu: define bitcoin ?! any and all blockchain based, mining enforced, elecrtronic currencies.
kakobrekla: the_scourge see pm.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGVwSi )
mircea_popescu: the generals are that you can have only one monetized good
mircea_popescu: all the others are derivatives of its monetization, they can't have their own.
the_scourge: i read that article, it seemed to be saying that smaller POW protocols would always be subject to hardness attacks
mircea_popescu: more generally, that nothing other than bitcoin can really exist
asciilifeform: see also the works of tom schelling
asciilifeform: (game theorist)
mircea_popescu: or whatever, five centuries of macroeconomics discussions.
asciilifeform: n centuries of geometrywank < euclid
mircea_popescu: they just hold some sentimental appeal for me :)
mircea_popescu: sorta like redditard'd go "see collected manga works" or w/e.
the_scourge: right, but for the issue at present: POW will always be vulnerable to hardness attacks, because there are bad?unlikeable?big? people in the world who can do a lot of work and ruin the fun for everyone, even if we ignore their fork of the chain. btc got very lucky in that it slipped under the radar, but that will never happen again in history. the wardens have been alerted
the_scourge: am i ... doing it justice? so far?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin stable state is where > 50% of all energy generated on planet earth goes to mininmg.
mircea_popescu: and it won't be "the wardens"
mircea_popescu: the wardens are dead. the invisible hand however... myeah.
mircea_popescu: you can always derive a profit by attacking unmonetized goods, or rather ; by exploiting the false claim of anyone putting forth an unmonetized good as money.
mircea_popescu: as soros proved for the benefit of the bank of england.
mircea_popescu: which is why i don't particularly mind gavin trying to create a scamcoin, nor whatever "public oppinion" support he may muster.
mircea_popescu: more money is always welcome.
ben_vulpes: ah jesus
ben_vulpes: over a thousand log lines
mircea_popescu: good stuff too.
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1NY6W1Q.txt )
ben_vulpes: humbug.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: gotta be in wot and logged in to press that button
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
the_scourge: yah ... i thought i was (again)
kakobrekla: err, there is no session to be 'logged in'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there;s no logged in
asciilifeform: else every sp4mz0r would be rated $maxint
asciilifeform: well authenticated
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 helped me register
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
kakobrekla: see, it works.
trinque: m-my blockchain... 'tis to the 18th of the present month!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 200 @ 0.0056089 = 1.1218 BTC [-] {9}
the_scourge: grrr it was UX issues ... tmux buffers + whitespace.... more excuses, more excuses
mircea_popescu: trinque pogo ?
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/2eb0c3750b5032de
kakobrekla: asciilifeform each auth-worthy command gets otp
trinque: mircea_popescu: having read logs it seems like everything I was worrying about regarding timestamp-transactions is moot
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 top man
assbot: You must be rated before you can rate.
the_scourge: er apparently having a 1 isn't good enough to give it away
kakobrekla: he must !verify first
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.1:97ebe29eec56db08f42ab0fbddfb4b60375c862c3ec0412baac3b1e9b0f39e28
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
trinque: ben_vulpes and I were talking about blockchain forks when last we hacked it up, but I guess that does not mean transactions will have to be retransmitted?
kakobrekla: now you can.
kakobrekla: the_scourge ^^
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1906 @ 0.00096996 = 1.8487 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: !rate kakobrekla 1 top man
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c2b4494d56bfaf0
thestringpuller: so will raising VC capital soon be viewed as a negative sign for a company
mircea_popescu: depends where.
trinque: mircea_popescu: this blockchain is for deedbot
mircea_popescu: trinque a cool
thestringpuller: well sometimes it seems "blah raised x money" and you're like "why do they need that money so badly? Are they having trouble staying alive?"
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you can now self-voice, as described in the assbot manual (message it with !up)
thestringpuller: !up Jrum the_scourge
trinque: I thought I was going to have to re-chew the blockchain up from first funding each time to see whether "new shit had come to light"
thestringpuller: !up the_scourge
the_scourge: uh, i verified but assbot didn't announce it in here...
the_scourge: is it ok to verify in channel or is that too chatty
mircea_popescu: generally you send assbot !up in a pm
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there is too much serial raising of funds. like its a mental illness or something.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you ever read that crooked timber tyhing about the bezzle was in log yest ?
trinque: thestringpuller: its like a fractured version of central economic planning
mircea_popescu: very good summary of a lot of problems.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if a leprous beggar could rent out space in his necrotic arsehole by the hour, to several clients in parallel, why wouldn't he
mircea_popescu: trinque quite exactly. accidental central planning and laika is alone in the control center.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i have not.
trinque: was talking with someone the other day about how the american system of govt is a shattered sovereign
trinque: I hadn't ever thought about it in those terms before
asciilifeform: trinque: that was moldbug's notion
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: oh i see!
the_scourge: in VC news, maidsafe got 19mil ... wtf
asciilifeform: trinque: he believed in 'conservation of sovereignty' (as if energy)
the_scourge: for a bunch of scottish guys to buy their porridge with... really?
mircea_popescu: http://crookedtimber.org/2013/11/21/ <<> read it. best primer of macroeconomics for noobs i ever saw.
assbot: 2013 November 21 — Crooked Timber ... ( http://bit.ly/1EDJb3H )
trinque: asciilifeform: interesting; is he worth reading?
trinque: I've seen him mentioned
asciilifeform: trinque: it depends
asciilifeform: trinque: try reading
the_scourge: trinque: imho, very worth reading
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is this similar to female who rents out womb for having babies for infertile couples?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: neh, that's honest work
mircea_popescu: the_scourge who are you anyway ?
the_scourge: i've just finish reading all of his non-bitcoin and non-economics posts (those are two things he ... isn't that brilliant with)
the_scourge: thestringpuller: also, probably best to avoid parallel womb renting
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: well what do you want to know
mircea_popescu: the suspicion being that perceived brilliance in other fields may be more the newspaper memory hole than his own merit.
mircea_popescu: the_scourge what do you do for a living, and what sort of education do you have basically.
the_scourge: erm well i work for myself doing ... what is interesting/profitable. was market data kernel tuning, then perl coding, now more 'devops' stuff
adlai: "market data kernel tuning"?
adlai: kernel as in trick?
the_scourge: in another life it was all systems programming etc but then i decided to go to the UK and join the Royal Marines... really really long story
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: leprous beggar sounds more like undead beggar in your instance then.
the_scourge: kernel as in... the linux kernel
adlai doesn't see the connection between "linux kernel" and "market data", but if that's interesting/profitable, glhf
the_scourge: and for education... fuck that seems like a long time ago but among other things i did a masters in ancient philosophy, languages and regilion. studied greek and aramaic and history as well
the_scourge: to be honest i just did the studies to get away from computers for a few hours a day.... also to answer the big questions in life
mircea_popescu: !rate the_scourge 1 легальные резиденты
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/299ccbef20419f24
the_scourge: adlai: oh, i should have said there was custom hardware involved. and 48 core bulldozer CPUs (bad decision, but made before i arrived)
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.the_scourge.1:33e0ab5465f7642a6e1ae13ba6bbb73a29cd777a865ced5b2dfb9dd7a56197ab
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: легальные резиденты
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l!
the_scourge: hence, the kernel tuning. csets etc
the_scourge: um what's the best way for me to find out what that says
asciilifeform: ask ru dictionary
thestringpuller: legal residents or something says google
thestringpuller: #amiclose ?
thestringpuller: ^- that's what she said
the_scourge: right so translation helped. and i knew there was a reason i still keep a urxvt instance running, even though it's horribly bloated
the_scourge: *didn't help
kakobrekla: as requested, have some lulz http://dpaste.com/1AZP655.txt
thestringpuller: Qntra material
the_scourge: adlai: to be honest my time doing the market data, i was more focused on getting an inside education on the more... interesting things in the financial markets, than stacking my CV with kernel/ASIC achievements. and in that regards i came out quite well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120650 @ 0.00038193 = 46.0799 BTC [+] {2}
the_scourge: have avoided certain markets ever since :)
thestringpuller: cazalla or BingoBoingo awake?
mircea_popescu: aww coin telegraph goiung teh way of what was the one they kept pushing, that was supposedly big ? also coin something
ben_vulpes: <punkman> [] there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up. << calling to find people who pick up
mircea_popescu: coidesk!
ben_vulpes: <chetty> [] email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << gnus, part of emacs, has worked for probably longer than i've been alove
ben_vulpes: alive*
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: in your soros example, what is the unmonetized commodity? surely not the gold
mircea_popescu: the pound.
the_scourge: sorry, i was going to ask earlier but... shit happened
the_scourge: the pound gets 2/3 qualities, close but no cigar
mircea_popescu: at the time the pound was on the receiving end of german rape.
the_scourge: i know the story
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form?
the_scourge: i was thinking about this the other day ... some smart people say that if there is not secondary use (no matter how minor, compared to the total volume) then something cannot be monetized
the_scourge: and... that assertion is true until proven false
mircea_popescu: that assertion is false.
mircea_popescu: paper dollars have no secondary use.
the_scourge: nothing has ever been monetized successfully that couldn't be turned into swords or necklaces or circuitboards or compressors (or eaten but i'm going back a ways now)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: what's the secondary use for a benjamin? cocaine straw ?
ben_vulpes: toothcoin!
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: they're not monetizable (paper dollars) - just like the pound
mircea_popescu: the pound was mini-usd at the time eh.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: why, then, were cowrie shells demonetized ?
the_scourge: nothing holds their value other than the force of the issuer's military. i served in one of them
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but why does a particular army demand to be paid in one thing and not another ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a word in your ear about "cowrie shells" : it is possible they were ever used for money. it is also possible libertard anthropologists created the pious fraud of "retarded non-white peoples also have some semblance of intelligence".
the_scourge: because they're brainwashed into supporting a certain nation (the issuer)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the post-slavetriangle use of said shells is a reasonably proven fact
asciilifeform: earlier? can't say
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way i understand, they were an early proxy slavecoin.
the_scourge: there is a lot you can learn about finance by signing up to be a uniformed tough guy for one of the big two, with your head already fully unplugged
asciilifeform: the_scourge: as a boy i was fond of reading ungodly quantities of ww2 minutiae. and i remember marvelling that the luftwaffe had to pay xxx reichsmarks, for, e.g., a v2 rocket. 'why did nazis have to pay for things,' i asked.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that merely the fact of exchanging "Shiny" for "cunt" might well be reported as "monetary shiny" by some people and 'loads of fun whee' by some others.
the_scourge: from personal experience, it's so fucking annoying though the best of us could only last a short while on the inside
asciilifeform: 'couldn't they just command it delivered'
asciilifeform: but then you learn that other aspects of physical world exist
mircea_popescu: they did, kinda. cowries played the role in africa that opium played in china
mircea_popescu: ie, earlier european governments understood the problems of unbalanced trade, and invented balancers.
mircea_popescu: but weren't stupid enough to accept the balancers as their own currency.
the_scourge: unless someone can remind me what the point of the original shells comment was, we drop it :) ?
the_scourge: the reich is interesting... oil was a big issue for them
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we have mats and adlai here, also former (or possibly reverse) army men in various corners of usa vassal empire
the_scourge: yah, i would hope putin has his historians working overtime right now
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you might enjoy reminiscing with them
adlai: "reverse"?
asciilifeform: reserve
adlai: ah yes
asciilifeform cleans keyboard and fingers
the_scourge: oh yah apparently mats is predisposed right now i tried pinging him a while ago
asciilifeform: the_scourge: point was the 'monetization' hypothesis
the_scourge: adlai: i'm one of those damn tea drinkers. well actually i'm not but w/e
asciilifeform: the_scourge: that king cannot simply order arbitrary objects monetized, or forgo the use of money entirely
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: will respond on seeds and licenses later
adlai still hasn't gotten paid for his reserve duty, but doing this requires physical presence at various government bureaus that keep excessively sane hours
asciilifeform: (to the latter, there are some possible exceptions, see the ancient inca empire)
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] 'vulture capital' << i'm surprised you're not making the easy poo joke here too
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes, yes they can. hitler couldn't because his guys were getting beaten by our guys
mircea_popescu: lol "yes we can'
the_scourge: you can monetize ANYTHING with enough mind control and military. post bretton woods, that's all we've been doing!!!
asciilifeform: the_scourge: better example - 1918, lenin's boys experimented with cancelling money.
asciilifeform: didn't last long.
asciilifeform: because it was pure idiocy. just as proclaiming a switch to edison's dc mains grid would've been.
adlai: the_scourge: what did you serve in?
the_scourge: adlai: reserve? were you in at some point?
adlai: three years
the_scourge: full time?
adlai: "various corners of usa vassal empire" = IDF, in my case
the_scourge: asciilifeform: right, that's probably a stretch too far from reality. but USG and HMT and BoE have been doing the fiat thing for a while now, and that's just one step less crazy
adlai: so yes, three years, full time, and reserve duty for the extent of my healthy adult life (unless/til i move out of the country)
adlai: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: hard times in the international diabetes federation :D
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'the fiat thing' ever tries, if you notice, to walk the fine line between scam and outright expropriation/dekulakization
the_scourge: oh cool i was going to join the IDF but they said i was too old
adlai: the_scourge: now that mp gave you legal residency, you should be able to !up yourself in PM with assbot, and that lasts as long as you're connected to the channel
the_scourge: which was retarded i was working on a kibbutz as a lifeguard and i was tearing up guys on their weekends on runs/workouts
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> [] why are we calling him alf again ? << Ascii Life Form? <<< nod, gw
nubbins`: ;;google a.l.f.
gribble: ALF TV | The Official Unofficial ALF Fan Site!: <http://www.alftv.com/>; ALF (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series)>; ALF (TV Series 1986–1990) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090390/>
the_scourge: adlai: thanks, done
adlai: expecting anything short of retardation from a bureaucracy the size of the idf is hopeful at best
the_scourge: adlai: what unit were you in? you can reply in hebrew, no worries
adlai: pastefail
assbot: MLRS - STEEL RAIN/BLACK RAIN - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2EI86 )
asciilifeform: adlai: american version of 'katyusha' ?
adlai: very, very, very americanized
adlai: more bomblets! more rockets! firing faster! from a bigger vehicle! with better treads! etc
asciilifeform: for 75x the price
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in their defense, they can actually use it
adlai: eh well.
asciilifeform: i could used a golden toilet too
the_scourge: adlai: i don't even know what unit that is
the_scourge: i was interested in shesh shesh tesha at the time :D
adlai: oh to be so young and patriotic again!
mircea_popescu: haha you were ?
adlai: mlrs is just a regular battalion in the army, but it used to be a special unit like that one... so there was this massive cognitive dissonance, where the higher up the officer, the more elite they thought their unit was
adlai: but the soldiers themselves were just your average shmuck
the_scourge: or shayetet13 - i wasn't young or patriotic ... and i wasn't when i got a good slot in the british military. i was having the same thoughts as moldbug, but instead of blogging about it i decided to become as deadly as possible in as short amount of time as possible
the_scourge: and actually it was about a year before he started blogging
adlai: not having actually been in such units, i'm speaking from impressions of people who were - but it seems as though the army trains people to be useful to the army, and any personal benefit that people got out of these units was mainly due to their own efforts to better themselves
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much what it is.
the_scourge: adlai: 1. i tried very hard before, during and after to get as much tactical benefit as possible. 2. you're right, and in retrospect i could have done equally well by making shedloads of money and shooting a lot, training a lot, hiring and doing private training
the_scourge: but that's REALLY fucking expensive and at the time the income streams were trickling a little
the_scourge: less than normal
adlai: heh well some kinds of training, you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them
adlai: dunno which legends you've heard about what they do to 'break' people in elite units
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2500 @ 0.00094379 = 2.3595 BTC [-] {11}
the_scourge: adlai: for those things, if you can make yourself do them, then you're better off than if batshit insane men force you to do it, under threat of bodily damage
the_scourge: but again, before, i didn't even know what those things were. it's more than just crawling through broken glass for miles. there are a lot of subtle nuances
mircea_popescu: <adlai> you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them << not if you're a woman, wink wink
the_scourge: it's interesting how the israeli culture generally knows about some of these nuances. the bootneck culture lives and breathes them and i don't think i could have bought that for any price
asciilifeform: the_scourge: describe, for the benefit of folks in barbaric faraway lands, some of these nuances.
the_scourge: it's the ability to keep your dignity no matter what.
adlai isn't sure 'dignity' is what's at stake
mircea_popescu: the israeli dignitary force.
adlai: asciilifeform: i've heard stories ranging from having your nose broken, to being strung up like a pig over an open fire, to having your 'captors' alternate between putting your gun barrel up your ass and in your mouth - all of this to get you to 'break' and reveal a secret
the_scourge: so, they do things like, you spend 2 weeks on an excercise, march 12 miles into the 'theatre' with 65lbs on your back, dig holes in the ground all night, and then lie in them (saltwater) and defend them, and then do full dignified kit inspection, ready to do a multi-unit ambush/assult all night
adlai: the_scourge is describing approved exercises. i'm describing legends about what happens in elite units outside the approval and regulation of the main army bodies.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: had to travel << Land on one side of the country ride to the other on occasion even.
the_scourge: adlai: right, for SERE training, it gets a little weird
adlai: as far as approved exercises go, the worst i had was a week spent with a single day's food ration, most of which was spent in full NBC gear
asciilifeform: adlai, the_scourge: all of these sounds like traditional military exercises
PeterL: mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever"
the_scourge: erm yah what bootnecks do it public knowledge i mean bear grylls does videos about the weird stuff
mircea_popescu: PeterL right you are.
adlai joined the army right after a major push for increased transparency in the ritualized torture of new recruits, so the crazy stuff only happens in crazy units these days
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i was trying to get to the nuances. not the shocking shit
asciilifeform: but who, exactly, finds the ritual torments of recruits - shocking ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: and i'm doing a bad job of it, to be honest i've never been asked and i've never tried externalizing it
adlai: asciilifeform: mothers.
asciilifeform: adlai: that'd be it
the_scourge: asciilifeform: tormenting nods - not the shocking stuff
asciilifeform: in ru army it is not uncommon for new recruits to be beaten to death
asciilifeform: no one is entirely surprised
asciilifeform: (afaik)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: such 'training' is orthoganal to tactical success
mircea_popescu: rather uncommon by now.
trinque: the_scourge: but directly aligned with being enslaved eh?
adlai: this still happens occasionally, but whenever it's in a regular (non-elite, anybody-can-join-and-who-asked-you-anyways) unit, these days, the unit gets disbanded, officers decomissioned, etc
asciilifeform: the_scourge: tactical success, as i think it well known, is not the only thing expected of a soldier
the_scourge: trinque: not sure if it's a mechanism or a byproduct ;)
asciilifeform: there is also the mechanical aspects of obedience - or unit cohesion, if you like
adlai: well and if you want to prepare your men to die in battle, they better die in training first, no?
asciilifeform: but everyone knows this
trinque: the_scourge: seems the enslavement of soldiers has to do with the necessity of keeping them loyal/taking orders
mircea_popescu: not nearly as orthogonal as all that, for that matter.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: this is true of many places. i was lucky in that i was in a place where they glorified individual thinking, as much as possible
trinque: or... why would so many listen to so few were they not slaves?
nubbins`: asciilifeform so how 'bout running a node on the NEW raspi ;p
asciilifeform is not a soldier, but can hardly imagine an army having more use for 'individual thinking' at the platoon level than a dog has for beets
the_scourge: trinque: you are (generally) correct, i was just saying in the russian army, i think some of the weird shit was a result of the slavery
trinque: nubbins`: put a quarter in the swear jar
adlai: drill sergeants on individual thinking: "if there's any doubt, there is no doubt", which eventually became "if you started thinking, stop"
nubbins`: duod you could compile it for win10.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you'd like to run node on cpu with closed turdcore running closed turdblob at all times, at 3x the cost of 'pogo' - be my guest
asciilifeform: and for win10 too while at it.
adlai: there's 10 now?
adlai needs to get out of emacs someday
nubbins`: ehh who knows
nubbins`: raspi folks are touting it
nubbins`: now sure if it's "here" or "coming"
nubbins`: who the fuck cares anyway?
the_scourge: trinque: for an example of what i mean, watch the russian throat slitting vidoes... not tactically strong
nubbins`: imagine someone using windows on an embedded device
nubbins`: imagine making that choice
asciilifeform: nubbins`: phun phact. usg, incl. all branches of military, love win-ce.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: because 9 wasn't good enough!
trinque: having been late to every party in the last decade, msft will now reinvent itself by being late to free!
nubbins`: asciilifeform no big surprise there
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is tho, by now "free" is wholly captured.
asciilifeform: '9' did not happen because, apparently, 'windows 9' was pattern-matched by various existing code as being in the windows 95, 98, 'me' class
trinque: the_scourge: I think it's a bit of a problem to expect anything other than barbarism from those trained to execute it at industrial scale
nubbins`: i have a handheld gps unit that runs wince
asciilifeform: and therefore skipped
mircea_popescu: so they have little choice
the_scourge: asciilifeform: what's your take on the linuxino boards?
asciilifeform: microshit's denials only cemented the truth of this rumour
nubbins`: it's so shitty you actually have to remove the hyphen
asciilifeform: the_scourge: have not tried personally
the_scourge: other than the chipset, pretty good architecture though?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'pogo' was suggested (iirc, i suggested it) purely on account of cost (and the fact of chassis and power supply being included in the cost, pre-assembled)
asciilifeform: 18 usd for 'sata' version, 13 without
asciilifeform: try beating that.
fluffypony gets out his whip
the_scourge: asciilifeform: wait, what? what are we making requirements for?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: experiment with a minimal-cost bitcoin node
the_scourge loves specing out low-power applications
asciilifeform: running therealbitcoin.org node.
the_scourge: standalone or like that coffeewarmer thing?
asciilifeform: standalone
asciilifeform: mains plug, ethernet.
the_scourge: how would you get an asci into a pogo
the_scourge: does it have sata?
asciilifeform: this is not a theoretical thing, it is happening now
the_scourge: er and that... yah
the_scourge: woah *wanders off to find a wiki somewhere
nubbins`: node, not mining unit 8)
asciilifeform: ('pogoplug' is a small 'arm' device originally sold as a minuature nas. see #b-a logs.)
nubbins`: hm, did i order a pogo?
nubbins`: !s buying from:nubbins`
assbot: 318 results for 'buying from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buying+from%3Anubbins%60
adlai: using !s to extend your memory of others' words, sure. extend your memory of others' actions, sure. ... but of your own actions!?
nubbins`: oh, no, i did. right on.
the_scourge: yah i was going to buy a pogo for nas work at home. but then i spent $way_too_much_fiat and built a xeon one instead
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter << Basically this is my read of the Erik situation. Govt settled because all they could get was the headline and token cash.
nubbins`: adlai it's all a fog
adlai finds himself wishing for !s in irl conversations now
the_scourge: ok i'm looking on that site for a wiki... where can i find out > why nodes, and not miners?
adlai: it's gotten me grepping a lot more though, which is good
nubbins`: the_scourge because mining at the personal level is retarded, but running a node is not.
mircea_popescu: adlai the same process ruined me for books. i'm like "fucking paper no grep"
the_scourge: what's the benefit to running a node? having the whole blockchain?
asciilifeform cheats by maintaining a grep-able copy of most books
nubbins`: the_scourge among other things, yes
asciilifeform: to go along with the dead tree
mircea_popescu: the_scourge generally the advice given to noobs is to read the logs for six months to a year.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: greppable?? in what format?
mircea_popescu: think of it as a sort of "crawling through glass".
asciilifeform: the_scourge: generally, ascii
nubbins`: ;;google saw needle pit
gribble: Saw II Needle Pit - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbviirWLCQg>; Saw 2 (5/9) Movie CLIP - The Needle Pit (2005) HD - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CAQ0iZKP08>; SAW II making of The Needle Pit Scene - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx472xleOOQ>
asciilifeform: (well, utf-8. a good deal are in non-latin script)
nubbins`: ^ think of it as this
mircea_popescu: whatever you think of it as, stfu and go do it now.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs
asciilifeform: what's the benefit to running a node? << start with the fact that if you haven't a node, you aren't using bitcoin.
adlai: my book-buying process (when i'm in an actual bookstore and can flip through the book) is made or broken by the quality of the index
nubbins`: incidentally, that scene is why i stopped watching Saw movies
the_scourge: i'm a bit more interested in asciilifeform's book buying process right now
mircea_popescu: adlai still. even people with good indedices, what are they going to put in there ? can't make it half the book.
asciilifeform: without node, you are stuck asking someone with a node to use it for you (or, more commonly, he merely pretends to)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: learn ru, bookz immediately become something you get for free, instantly, and in grepable plain ascii.
the_scourge: last time i was involved, people had the same concerns, but on the miner side of things
adlai: mircea_popescu: right, it's more that i'll find some really interesting book, get all excited about reading it, and then change my mind when i see a three page index
assbot: Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile." - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1x8GkHh )
nubbins`: from street fighter
asciilifeform: ^ post was not actually about guile
asciilifeform: (naggum fought a long usenet war against 'scheme' fanatics. 'guile' is a scheme interpreter.)
adlai: the only good thing i have to say about scheme is that it's abstruse enough that sometimes college students pay me to write it for them :)
mircea_popescu: complex specs are in no sense better. the only thing a very complicated spec shows is that the designer did not understand the overwhelming importance of not specifying.
mircea_popescu: that's the main task of spec work : avoiding doing anything as much as humanly possible.
the_scourge: adlai: 'college students' < doesn't tell us anything
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with 'the spec is the implementation' crapolade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope!
adlai: the_scourge: "people who work a part-time job so they can fund another person's part-time job doing their homework"
asciilifeform: not that a spec arrived at via the usual idiot committees is any better
mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with small programs that do clear things and without a userbase that "has come to expect"
asciilifeform: but the only proper spec is a) actual spec b) fits in head c) because was created by actual person
asciilifeform: (or at most, two or three)
mircea_popescu: i defy you to find a spec anywhere in use in the shitstack today that manages to not include things it really has no business specifying.
mircea_popescu: and the problem is even more visible in dictionaries (as definitions are simply the specifications of words). never is it the case a dictionary manages to not include extraneous nonsense in the soup
mircea_popescu: take the http://dictionary.cambridge.org definition of dictionary :
assbot: Cambridge Free English Dictionary and Thesaurus ... ( http://bit.ly/1ApcRQM )
mircea_popescu: "a book containing the words of a language alphabetically arranged, with their meanings etc"
mircea_popescu: leaving aside that there's no etc allowed ; A BOOK ? why the fuck is it a book.
mircea_popescu: it's not a book, it's a list. and it doesn't have to be alphabetically sorted.
mircea_popescu: dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations."
adlai: a little relevant, and then i must break scalpl manually if it won't do so of its own accord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
assbot: Experience the power of a bookbook™ - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Apd6Ls )
mircea_popescu: there's not even any need to specify it actually contains definitions. the quality of the definitions distinguishes a good implementation from a bad one and that's all.
assbot: #b-a student excerpt - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1x8Kr6j )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform learns to explain things possibly
mircea_popescu: i see little in there other than "agend desperate to create personal raport as attempts to control teh public venue aren't working for ununderstood reasons that look scary."
the_scourge: i wish i had saved my credit for you asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't much care if all the n00bs are american generals. let'em learn a little.
mircea_popescu: sure, no broblem.
asciilifeform: i only dislike them when they're annoying and illiterate.
mircea_popescu: earnest effort never killed anyone. except of course in soviet russia.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: true but we all bring different things to the table, i could write a book on NRx history, philosophy etc: that is proof of hard work done
nubbins`: hey now
nubbins`: we all don't bring something to the table
mircea_popescu: "could" is usagitalk.
the_scourge: which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical
mircea_popescu: nubbins` except lasers.
nubbins`: o o right
the_scourge: does assbot have a glossary? for things like usagitalk?
punkman: yes it's called logs
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the concept of 'proof of work' as it pertains to bitcoin is a very well-defied, mechanical thing. as in, machine-verifiable.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." <<< why does it have to be exhaustive?
adlai: !s jargon
assbot: 24 results for 'jargon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jargon
trinque: asciilifeform: this student appreciates the pasted lesson
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if you do not know this, you are far behind in your studies
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the only thing that makes you go "this isn't a fucking dictionary" is if you look for a word that should be in but isnt
asciilifeform: *defined
nubbins`: by that measure, i've got 3,000-page beasts that are not dictionaries
mircea_popescu: note that they usually explain their limitations. "A dictionary of 1900 London argot" won't contain nixonisms
nubbins`: and a page from a word-a-day calendar with the word "grok" defined, that occasionaly *is* a dictionary
adlai: my dad has not one but TWO dictionaries that require a magnifying glass to read the copy
mircea_popescu: however, the absence of "chthulhu" from there will be regarded as prima facie proof that the word in question was in fact not 1900s london argot.
adlai: old school OEDs
[]bot: Bet created: "BTC to rise vs USD in February" http://bitbet.us/bet/1114/
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: jargon studies? i did read the jargon file front to back if that's what you mean. long long time ago though
nubbins`: ;;google dictionary of newfoundland english
gribble: Dictionary of Newfoundland English Online: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/>; Alphabetical Index: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d7ction.html>; Search: Dictionary of Newfoundland English: <http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d8ction.html>
mircea_popescu: and now im off to trilemize the dictionary/spec discussion, if anyone wants to be in ask now.
adlai: the_scourge: generally doing a log search via !s or http://search.bitcoin-assets.com will help you find context for words or ideas that seem out of place
assbot: Search the #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: mp quote me saying some people don't bring shit to the table
nubbins`: it helps to add context
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sure
nubbins`: try to incorporate the word "sleeveen" into the article as well
mircea_popescu: why sleeveen ?!
the_scourge: adlai: thanks i'll start doing that :)
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: it's in the dictionary of newfoundland english
punkman: asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reasonas the rest of that piece of shit << is it valuable? I thought the goal was to replace satoshi's hairballs.
nubbins`: and generally when one is called a sleeveen, one does not know how to take the insult, due to being wholly unfamiliar with its definition and usage
asciilifeform: punkman: replace -after- fully understood.
asciilifeform: before can be understood - must be fully pinned down.
nubbins`: ive seen members of parliament call each others sleeveens with impunity because the speaker of the house didn't know wtf it meant.
BingoBoingo: From the New Oxford English Dictionary database https://twitter.com/Blacktric/status/562442413520982016/photo/1 (Maybe exaggeration of source)
assbot: Sarah butts pulls up a chair at the sissy faggot crossdresser tea party. http://t.co/CImMm6APi9
asciilifeform: punkman: try to understand why the pedigreed 0.5.3 has special status.
punkman: asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo?
punkman: (compared to 0.10)
nubbins`: rotophobe sounds better
asciilifeform: punkman: try reading 0.10 some time. much of the original mechanisms - mutilated beyond recognition, or missing entirely.
asciilifeform: it isn't just a matter of crud removal, after 0.8 or so
kakobrekla: punkman alfs argument is coins were worthless hence lesser chance of molestation
asciilifeform: unless satoshi, the enemy, or both - were soothsayers
asciilifeform does not include voodoo in engineering analysis
punkman: well that's what we want to do, mutilate the hell out of it. just in different direction.
asciilifeform: punkman: i suspect that 'gold standard' will remain largely satoshi-based for a very long time.
kakobrekla: seems more like purification instead of mutilation
asciilifeform: as in literally, any node that would result in a kg or more of Au equiv. lost if it were to hiccup
punkman: as for moving satoshi cpuminer to different binary, it's gonna need to use the "getwork" avenue, so I'm guessing that'd be a significant rewrite
kakobrekla: have it built in, but optionally as separate patch?
asciilifeform: punkman: hence why i suggested letting it alone for now.
punkman: you know what'd be great? some sort of "bitcoind c++" reading guide.
asciilifeform: punkman: moving it to separate src file? sure
kakobrekla is unaware of how badly scattered the mining code is
assbot: first pass mining-snip · a2745ff · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ApiWMW )
asciilifeform: punkman: gnarly. not only cppism but 'boost', 'bdb'
mircea_popescu: there we go.
punkman: asciilifeform: yeah separate file seems like a good idea
asciilifeform: does somebody feel like writing a similar graphical visualizer for our patches ?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? << because it's actually before the "bitcoin is important" point of no return.
asciilifeform did try to explain this in the devlist
thestringpuller: "C++ 99.5%"
asciilifeform: 0.5% silica gel.
thestringpuller: "C 0.5%"
thestringpuller: lolololol!!!!!!
asciilifeform: and food dyes.
jurov: no corn syrup?
mircea_popescu: hey, is hfcs on spirulina a vegetarian breakfast ?
punkman: why not
punkman: there is that whole "may contain traces of pig cocks" thing, but meh
nubbins`: "The U.S. National Library of Medicine said that spirulina was no better than milk or meat as a protein source, and was approximately 30 times more expensive per gram."
mircea_popescu: spirulina ?
nubbins`: 10/10 would buy
asciilifeform: sea cabbage ?
mircea_popescu: reminds me of that organic paper story.
nubbins`: spirulina seems to be straight-up bacteria
nubbins`: hey, we use 100% real paper
mircea_popescu: i thouyght it was an algae
mircea_popescu: The algae has actually been tested and successfully grown in human urine at 1:180 parts. After 7days, 97% of NH4+-N, 96.5% of total phosphorus (TP) and 85–98% of urea in the urine (ca. 120-diluted) were removed by the microalgae under autotrophic culture (30 °C).
mircea_popescu: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it.
nubbins`: it's an "algae"
nubbins`: altho apparently this is a misnomer, as it's actually prokaryotic
BingoBoingo: "cyanobacteria" to be specific
nubbins`: we're reaching dangerous levels of fake bio knowledge
asciilifeform: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it << 'eat recycled food! it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2187 @ 0.000944 = 2.0645 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuEO73 )
asciilifeform: although what is this preoccupation with 'the unbanked'
mircea_popescu: lecherous if impotent old men have a comparable preoccupation with "the unfucked"
asciilifeform: it's a usg newspeak term that encompasses not only paupers, who have no business in a bank regardless, but also folks resisting bezzle who consciously stay out of bank
asciilifeform: so rather it's like... does english even have a word for 'unchristed' ?
asciilifeform: 'heathen' ?
asciilifeform: from perspective of priests
the_scourge: spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'folks we haven't gotten a good shot at christing yet'
asciilifeform: некрещеные
the_scourge: as for it being more expensive... what a retarded thing to say. even for USG
asciilifeform: aha, i found it...
asciilifeform: unchurched.
trinque: that has to be a new term
trinque: like "unbanked"
asciilifeform: trinque: it isn't
the_scourge: no, unchurched is common parlance
adlai: unchurched, noun: a computer which does not use church numerals
the_scourge: it's part of a jargon from a very different community
asciilifeform: 'webster' claims 1657 as first known usage.
trinque: bleh
asciilifeform: adlai: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: isn't that unchurned ?
the_scourge: Who is Irdial? good argumentation style he has
asciilifeform considers getting paper dictionary out of its crate
the_scourge: except for the end. kinda gets distracted by shiny misdirection :)
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Must go in mouth. Even raw I digest fine.
BingoBoingo keeps paper dictionaries on shelf
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Also even though "complete" spirulina in low in some more important amino acids
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: second point, valid. however, getting the meat in your mouth is 1/10th the battle
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.111 BTC for No on "BTC to top $450 before 31st Mar" http://bitbet.us/bet/1113/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.4523 BTC. Current weight: 89,044.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.75 BTC for No on "BTC to rise vs USD in February" http://bitbet.us/bet/1114/ Odds: 63(Y):37(N) by coin, 63(Y):37(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.85 BTC. Current weight: 99,773.
BingoBoingo: How hard is carve animal, insert pieces in mouth?
the_scourge: i mean, the digestive effort
the_scourge: basically spirulina, the advantage is you have to break down one cellular wall and you have mitochondria, meat is a MUCH harder process
BingoBoingo: Digestive effort is easy. Small intestine gets pumped full of all the right enzymes to process animal protein
the_scourge: and hey i'm of the "catch and eat it raw" line of thought as well, it's just that from a scientific look, spirulina does require a lot less investment
BingoBoingo: Mitochondria is not everything. with steak you pop cellular membrane and start tearing a part long chains of proteins
the_scourge: when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain
thestringpuller: oooh yay biochemistry
the_scourge: i'm not disagreeing with you. i eat lots of meat. when i lived in a freer countries, i shot most of what i ate. you're preaching to the choir here but there are huge benefits to some of the more accessible forms of protein
thestringpuller: ATP is my favorite biomolecule of all time
BingoBoingo: the_scourge> when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain << More likely shrunk as meat became nutrient fire or not. Most carnivores have short GI tracts because meat digest faster than comlex plant matter. Cell walls are a bitch to break.
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: yes, moving to meat was a benefit in itself
thestringpuller: ATP Snythase is my favorite protein by far
the_scourge: thestringpuller: get on topic. if you like biochemistry, tell me what is the cost of breaking spirulina cellular walls. now :)
thestringpuller: it's not about energy exerted in that case it's about the cost to build the proteins/enzymes to break them down :P
thestringpuller: mitochondria are the shit cause they make ATP so efficiently
thestringpuller: and its a fucking mystery why the fuck they even exist
the_scourge: in animals, we know
the_scourge: ever heard about babies who don't have good mitochonria during antenatal development? not good
thestringpuller: i was talking about evolutionary. the selection process of how they end up in cells
thestringpuller: or at least "complex cells"
the_scourge: which is why we're going to get 3-parent babies soon. which is bullshit it's just a mother, father + a different woman's mitochondira
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs << some lol. the point is that you've gotta pick up the variety speak, and that comes from reading logs in near-real-time for six months, not "some" or "a few" or "the ones i found interesting and/or easy"
BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: ah thanks that makes sense. lurking is necessary anywhere you go. i thought he meant dead logs
ben_vulpes: those help too.
assbot: Why We Hate Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/18LfXTk )
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: if you do it right, you'll find yourself searching through the dead logs for further context.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: news?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: the_scourge: Not a bad log day to start on http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2013#411276
the_scourge: also in the news, ward migrated his wiki to fedwiki
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the logs are actually linked in the topic. and the variety speak is http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/
assbot: You're gonna have to learn that variety speak pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18Lg0Pf )
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: not only fedwiki, but it's also got all sorts of css and javascript
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: scouting around
ben_vulpes: ward cunningham's a cool dude
ben_vulpes: seen it all, still works in the trenches
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: if you know an implimentation of fedwiki that doesn't have js, let me know
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: i don't fuck with any of that stuff.
ben_vulpes: collaborating with randos is for the birds.
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i've been in on his weekly hangouts a few times, very very cool times
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: dude i was working on it when i still believed in randos. a long time ago
ben_vulpes: i infrequently find myself drinking in his proximity. mostly f(how often i'm at new relic)
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: plus, the technology could probably be adapted for closed communities
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what's youre connection to newrelic?
mircea_popescu: diff between c2 and fedwiki is that well... fedwiki dun work.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
thestringpuller: << stop blowing my mind
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: they have an office nearby at which i drink occasionally
mircea_popescu: is that citizen global thing ?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: It's true. Mitochondria have their own different DNA from their hosts and their hosts use them as a dependency
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i like the branch and fork model. and we do need a non-code collaboration toolset built around that model. and we know that model works for closed communities, dictatorships and everything else
mircea_popescu: who's we ?
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y << harvard being somewhat useful rather than handing out A's to the females who are best in bed.
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical << bwahahahat?
thestringpuller: different cellular structures animated realistically, but colorized for distinction
lobbes: I leave to code for an hour and the conversation has moved from grepping, to dictionary specs, to biochemistry. Several of the reasons I love this channel
mircea_popescu: no nudes today tho ;/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a whole lot of "hei guise, wheel!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 193996 @ 0.00038159 = 74.0269 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19154 @ 0.00038415 = 7.358 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: to the logs witcha, the_scourge
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2013 16:09:18; dexX7: looks they are serious with "50 new listings in one year"
mircea_popescu: which meanwhile exploded scam was this ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Hovelcocks
mircea_popescu: o i thought btcetc
mircea_popescu: ;;seen dexx7
gribble: dexx7 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 33 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <dexX7> i think i can up myself
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: what did you find funny about my PoRealWork comment?
BingoBoingo: So... Ulbricht trial is already done with closing statements...
mircea_popescu: bets on how long jury takes ?
BingoBoingo: Hard to say. Instructions delivered tomorrow. Today was also first day of defense testimony...
mircea_popescu: well if it were easy to say it wouldn't make much of a bet.
BingoBoingo: Right.
thestringpuller: is there a bitbet for if he gets convicted or not?
mircea_popescu: lol that's not hard to say.
BingoBoingo: I'd consider putting 0.5 BTC on under 3 hours. Worried about holdout juror or jurors.
thestringpuller: lol "The jurors are instructed not to look at bitbet" - says the Judge.
mircea_popescu: ima put a btc on "over 6 hours", how about that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll take that with 1 BTC for under six hours.
thestringpuller: oooh over under
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo make it.
asciilifeform: watch preet let him slip, just to win the bet.
mircea_popescu: yeah right.
asciilifeform: massively-distributed bakshish, lol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can even blatantly abuse your journalistic position to make moar comedy gold.
thestringpuller: super retarded judge if bitbet influences the trial
thestringpuller: or more just "powerless judge"
assbot: dpaste: 1FQFE2M ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpaL38 )
mircea_popescu: they still seclude juries neh ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo make it i mean on bitbet
assbot: Inheriting Grandma’s House Comes With Tax Under Obama Plan - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1KpaSfd )
thestringpuller: they try to, hence what I said about judge in future may instruct juries to stay away from bitbet
mircea_popescu: specifically : if you bought 1k btc at $10, and you die when it's $1000, usg wants about 400`000, in usd.
mircea_popescu: then, should your inheritor sell it when it's $10`000, usg wants further capital gains tax. not on 9k, but on $9990
thestringpuller: sounds like a scam
mircea_popescu: anything to prevent that ol' capital acumulation thing.
thestringpuller: this is why rednecks bury gold here in the confederacy
mircea_popescu: anyway, best gift for bitcoin he could have ever made.
mircea_popescu: i can scarcely comprehend why anyone would leave his heirs anything but btc.
mircea_popescu: it is untaxable, after all.
thestringpuller: cause the executor of the will is a scammer?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: submitted, funding tx sent
BingoBoingo hopes his Austrialian Open bad luck streak ends
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: big fat news, usa is simply moving to the taxation system customary in most of the orcish world - levy exorbitantly high tax, and hope it makes up for spotty collection
thestringpuller: Don't you get sent to jail in the US if you don't pay taxes for X amount of time.
asciilifeform: (mircea_popescu probably knows something about the argentinian tax, even if he has not seen it in person)
thestringpuller: I.e. wesley snipes
thestringpuller: IE Lauryn Hill
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ianal, but it is not the mere act of not paying, but what they consider to be an attempt to weasel out of having the tax assessed or collected, that constitutes the offence in the usa penal code
thestringpuller: that's how they got Al Capone. "Tax Evasion"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform personally, i dun knowmuch an' i dun care much.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik they fit the standard orc pattern.
mircea_popescu: im sure they murder whoever dares open a pizzeria.
mircea_popescu: since i'm not in the pizzeria business... fuckall i care.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the price of US passport is paying income tax wherever you live.
thestringpuller: US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: just like north kr.
the_scourge: i.e. peter schiff's dad
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: always portraying the state as the retarded mafia
asciilifeform: afaik no one expat has yet been brought back in a cage for not paying. but i'm told that certain foreign banks will avoid you if they learn you have u.s. citizenship.
mircea_popescu: well it is...
cazalla: how long until tax man comes to you and says, i'm a reasonable guy, i'll accept payment for your taxes in bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: quo warranto?
mircea_popescu: does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ?
cazalla: i'm not implying he would have the authority, just when taxman might begin to believe he does
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i thought they'd flag your passport if you get IRS audited and charged for evasion? (though I guess this is more a dice roll if it occurs to an individual)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if charged for so much as jaywalking
mircea_popescu: cazalla im sure it'll be something like "bitpay paid 500k usd to franchise owner" thing
thestringpuller: chetty was saying she was still paying US taxes (or maybe I recally incorrectly)
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 17 minutes and 16 seconds
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yo, if this bet stays open until the fucking 6th, and it ends at 100k...
mircea_popescu: it'll just get flooded.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the basic reason why u.s. tax is generally easy to enforce, is that most u.s. folk who have money are rich specifically in usg-controlled scrip or pseudo-realestate or the like
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have no idea for a better spec.
asciilifeform: that can be confiscated by flipping a switch
BingoBoingo: Given BitBet's minimum time constraints
danielpbarron: thestringpuller> US passport: Tax Curse, -10 from wealth << why i can't attend conference
asciilifeform: so, the chump can travel wherever he wants, to zimbabwe if he likes, but if we were to rock the boat - a bureaucrat flips the switch, and -bam- - he's a pauper.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform worked pre btc anyway.
mircea_popescu: o look at that, the tax break for repatriating corp profits? aolso gone.
mircea_popescu: i guess butthurt at it not having worked at all because well... nobody wants their money inside the beast.
assbot: FALSA AMNISTIE - JEAN MOSCOPOL - ANTICOMUNIST - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18LlDwN )
[]bot: Bet created: "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 0(Y):100(N) by coin, 0(Y):100(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worked pre btc << still works on all but the l33t35t d00dz, who don't need a bank for anything, are entirely untainted by usa-juice, etc
mircea_popescu: you can use banks just fine.
asciilifeform: bank gets a call - 'mr. x is a dangerous terrorist. is this a terrorist bank?'
mircea_popescu: caller gets response, "nem tudom"
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Russian Index RTS to drop under 500 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1109/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 35(Y):65(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.0574767 BTC. Current weight: 51,537.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to top $1500 before 16 May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1106/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.3 BTC. Current weight: 82,128.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $100 before April" http://bitbet.us/bet/1108/ Odds: 16(Y):84(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.47696636 BTC. Current weight: 71,999.
mircea_popescu: respectively "please direct any inquiries to the central bank of china / putin / etc"
asciilifeform: unless account holder is high in putin-wot, he might begin to have problems, no ?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> does he have like a gpg signed thing from ben_vulpes or something ? << pardon?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Foundation tax receipt
ben_vulpes: we don't issue such.
ben_vulpes: one of those zero, one, infinity things.
ben_vulpes: if enforcement's impossible...don't enforce.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours" http://bitbet.us/bet/1115/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 100,000.
hanbot: good to know in case taxman shows up claiming otherwise :D
asciilifeform: i've said it before, but will say again, if 'humane' paper tax collection falls apart (and it seems that eventually must) - the old-fashioned door-to-door shakedowns will return
ben_vulpes wonders if this ddosser can be coerced into attacking arbitrary people in arbitrary channels
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: poverty looks good on me.
BingoBoingo: Or arbitrary things
asciilifeform: the algorithm for sniffing out faux poverty is also not a deep secret, nor especially new
asciilifeform: 'mr x, you're a registered pauper, but is that a first class air ticket you're holding? where'dyagetthat'
asciilifeform: the above is not a statement of 'history is a boot stomping on a human face forever', but a testable hypothesis about actual near-future observables.
hanbot: was a funny case of that in romania. prime minister, very corrupt, "from my auntie!"
asciilifeform: 'let's meet the auntie'
pete_dushenski: never hurts to have a rich uncle
asciilifeform: in the orcish world, if you've paid your bakshis / filed mircea_popescu-style 38 lawsuits against city hall / etc. - you're golden
hanbot: auntie had passed...
trinque: w-w-won it in vegas?
pete_dushenski: found on floor with name on it, hey ppl win the lottery all the time!
pete_dushenski: hanbot or in tahiti without cell or email
hanbot: huh?
trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: The giving of false testimony - a crime, seen in Russia as small change - in the U.S. can lead to 26 years of prison. The fact that, in essence, the matter concerned a young girl who did not wish to admit her love affair with a married man, interests no one in the U.S. The principle of the machine is: do it [the crime] - receive. [consequences] the machine is merciless and incorruptible.'
pete_dushenski: @nntaleb: In 80s terrorists captured 4 Russians in Beirut.Russians kidnapped 10 relatives of terrorists, sent body parts.Nobody since messed wRussians
asciilifeform: really, nobody?
trinque: not once
pete_dushenski: usa locks up girls, refuses to "negotiate with terrorists"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform well ... chechens
pete_dushenski: pt 2 of taleb's note was "in leb/syr"
pete_dushenski: more digestible when the claim is geographically isolated
asciilifeform: trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle << consider the implications of the well-known u.s. court case Wickard v. Filburn.
asciilifeform: which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg
asciilifeform: the one that lays claim to every drop of water in the sea, every grain of sand on land, etc.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << borked
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the case was resolved in favour of 'subject, you are meat and we own you'
trinque: asciilifeform: right, I assume they can and will warp reality to suit them as needed
asciilifeform: there was no rebellion, note, then, when it was vastly more realistic
asciilifeform: than today
asciilifeform: nor was there anything more than picketing when fdr pissed on ww1 vets demanding their pensions
asciilifeform: well, first hoover, then fdr
asciilifeform: but this is well known.
trinque: this brings to mind again my (hardly novel) thought that the usg is a shattered sovereign, rather than the absence of one
pete_dushenski: for the greater good(tm)
trinque: in that the ruler clearly always has the power to sort of speak declaratively about reality, and he/it will be mostly believed, or at least ignored
trinque: if that exists, in other words, humans are wired to mostly receive their understanding of what is real from authority, this mode of "state" is exceptionally irresponsible
trinque: did any of that parse?
pete_dushenski: sure, except for how it might be seen to be "irresponsible"
pete_dushenski: people are religious
trinque: pete_dushenski: this form of govt does not broadcast a coherent model of reality
pete_dushenski: whether they pray to the state or science or the church is a matter of fashion
pete_dushenski: nor can they
trinque: pete_dushenski: I am saying that this religion is irresponsible
pete_dushenski: nor can anyone
pete_dushenski: it's not clear to me that reality is digestible below a certain level of intelligence
pete_dushenski: what's reality? it's all perspective
trinque: pete_dushenski: I think we'd agree then. I'm saying the OS that's being distributed is a mangled hack
trinque: sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way
pete_dushenski: it's a pretty naive os to be sure
trinque: but some confucianism for the peasants never hurt
pete_dushenski: this os is definitely in the first! biggest! best! vein
pete_dushenski: we all have to believe in something, some moreso than others
trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model
trinque: yep
pete_dushenski: the less critical capacity, the more articles of faith
trinque: one cannot just give up modeling at that point
pete_dushenski: trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model << curious, when ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform door to door shakedowns are incompatible with the present day usg.
mircea_popescu: hanbot lol nastase. totally. he did end up in jail tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still don't understand why
mircea_popescu: btw : he only ended up in jail because he was a politician, and poiliticians exclusively are required to DECLARE their fortune.
mircea_popescu: otherwise ordinary romanian can just go "where from ? your mother paid me."
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg << more like the birthplace of the central planning element thereof. "we affirm congress has the authority to central plan economic activity"
mircea_popescu: the fed was similarly, except re finance.
trinque: pete_dushenski: I just spent a long time sitting once upon a time
mircea_popescu: centralism is ever the temptation of the stupid and the lazy, for very good game theoretic reasons : they know that greatness won't be oozing out of them personally any time soon. perhaps if it were all put into this box then it may ooze it ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> well, first hoover, then fdr << the pissing on veterans is a universal sport. this is why being a soldier is dumb, being a mercenary is better.
asciilifeform: i can think of at least four separate incidents where usg armies loudly, publicly, beat and often fired on assemblies of veterans
mircea_popescu: <trinque> sure one can't apprehend reality in some objective way << if this is true, how come gavin's not getting what he wants ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu centralism would be that eretz israel geese in a barrel thing again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why to which point ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski so it would.
trinque: mircea_popescu: if there is an objective mode of being, I am further down the mountain than it
mircea_popescu: not the same as you said before :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: showing that the grunts were, practically speaking, automata who will do precisely as instructed.
mircea_popescu: well for that matter the pioneers fired on the british.
asciilifeform: whatever 'spirit of rebellion' there was in usa, was exterminated in civil war.
mircea_popescu: all a matter of context, who fires on whom
mircea_popescu: https://bitbet.us/bet/1115/silk-road-deliberations-over-6-hours/ << if anyone wants into this, bout 12 or so hours left.
assbot: BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.04 B (50%) on Yes, 1.06 B (50%) on No | closing in 1 day 55 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/18Lr9j3 )
asciilifeform: a leap of conjecture - modern usg began to take shape once the last folks who remembered pre-civilwar usa were gone.
mircea_popescu: why do you think memory is important ?
asciilifeform: just like today's phase transition in decay largely consists of the pre-60s greybeards exiting the stage.
asciilifeform: not memory specifically
mircea_popescu: a woman that remembers her time as queen of sheeba and a sow that remembers the greatness of mud make just as good mates for a hog mounting humiliation porn thing.
asciilifeform: in a seriously broken culture, generation n does not really pass to gen. n+1 the sense of being part of the same thing
asciilifeform: or whatnot
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or else from where comes 'homo redditicus' ?
asciilifeform: orlov refers to him as 'homo sapiens lite'
mircea_popescu: from their mother's cunts ?
mircea_popescu: children are born grimy, what.
assbot: News from The Associated Press ... ( http://bit.ly/18LrwKe )
mircea_popescu: aahahaha
mircea_popescu: waiting for the milk + cookies crash
asciilifeform: 'Joe Angelo, a decorated hero from the war who saved Patton's life, approached him the day after to sway him. Rather than accept and listen to the man whom he had decorated himself for his bravery under fire, Patton coldly rejected him and stated "I do not know this man. Take him away and under no circumstances permit him to return."' (pediwik)
cazalla: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trinity-students-think-bitcoin-regulator-could-put-business-185046897--finance.html#kESZasb "They believe a Bitcoin ‘credit-check’ database, in which potential business partners could scope each other out, could be the answer." lol
assbot: These Trinity students think they may have solved the Bitcoin problem - Yahoo News UK ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVnaoC )
trinque: mircea_popescu: you have a hell of a way of provoking a cascade of thought/reflection with a single question
mircea_popescu: i sit on the gigantic shoulders of logs.
trinque: perhaps we find objective truth when we bump into it, so to speak
asciilifeform: cazalla: lol, the black/white-lists crapolade never ever goes away.
mircea_popescu: right ? whether ou find it or not, it's always there to fuck oyu over the mouth. with a stick.
trinque: gavin can't have shamcoin because bitcoin does not work that way, too bad
cazalla: asciilifeform, anything ever come of yifu's black/white list?
mircea_popescu: trinque but "how do you know", after all, if opinion enacted reality (or properly, if there were no objective reality past opinions) then his gambit would actually work.
asciilifeform: cazalla: no idea
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 19:43:16; asciilifeform: chetty: ''Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what o
pete_dushenski: cazalla not that i've heard of either
trinque: this calls into question whether the interaction between sovereign and subject is one of the dispensation of a (hopefully better) OS, as I stated, or whether he is rather to be a force of nature which is so, regardless of what winblows they're running
mircea_popescu: whats an os anyway
trinque: as I think about it, mostly a fairy tale that extends the reach of foot-soldiers to nightmares
asciilifeform: trinque: and the whole concept of everybody getting their mental firmware from the palace, rather than from organic hierarchy that's been around for millenia, is a 20th century evil
trinque: I was thinking of it in terms of "go read these books" and "you know, don't steal that guy's potatoes"
trinque: asciilifeform: yep, that would make sense
trinque: "the state is everywhere"
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
mircea_popescu: exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot.
asciilifeform digs in log, fails to find, mircea_popescu's line about state-imposed star topologies
assbot: Advanced WoT course : how the WoT is attacked, and how it defends itself. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18LsZQQ )
mircea_popescu: but the idea being that sybil attacks succeed when and only when the nodes are too agreefull.
pete_dushenski: yifu seemed to go completely dark after that escapade
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recurring theme on trilema and here, but most recently http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998181
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:50:13; mircea_popescu: the socialist state does not want a normally functioning society, but instead this stellar configuration where the state is at the center,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha ^^^ here we go.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00094254 = 1.8851 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18LtkTG )
asciilifeform: we're still at a point where a great many people alive would need a time machine tour to be convinced of anything like civilization being possible without state-at-center
mircea_popescu: "why vote for women ? because if women spend more time talking to the state and less talking to their husbands, the state will be stronger and society weaker"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, this was a strongly held byzantine notion, too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: certainly. it wasn't like it requires the transistor.
mircea_popescu: all it requires is other peopel's wealth.
mircea_popescu: to this day i suspect xiaoping's plan was exactly 1. industrialise through giving away the products to the west. within half a century you will have the industry and they will have collapsed.
asciilifeform: 'Thirty years ago the Blimp class was already losing its vitality. The middle-class families celebrated by Kipling, the prolific lowbrow families whose sons officered the army and navy and swarmed over all the waste places of the earth from the Yukon to the Irrawaddy, were dwindling before 1914. The thing that had killed them was the telegraph. In a narrowing world, more and more governed from Whitehall, there was every year l
asciilifeform: ess room for individual initiative. Men like Clive, Nelson, Nicholson, Gordon would find no place for themselves in the modern British Empire. By 1920 nearly every inch of the colonial empire was in the grip of Whitehall. Well-meaning, over-civilized men, in dark suits and black felt hats, with neatly rolled umbrellas crooked over the left forearm, were imposing their constipated view of life on Malaya and Nigeria, Mombasa and
asciilifeform: Mandalay. The one-time empire builders were reduced to the status of clerks, buried deeper and deeper under mounds of paper and red tape. In the early twenties one could see, all over the Empire, the older officials, who had known more spacious days, writhing impotently under the changes that were happening. From that time onwards it has been next door to impossible to induce young men of spirit to take any part in imperial a
asciilifeform: dministration. And what was true of the official world was true also of the commercial. The great monopoly companies swallowed up hosts of petty traders. Instead of going out to trade adventurously in the Indies one went to an office stool in Bombay or Singapore. And life in Bombay or Singapore was actually duller and safer than life in London. Imperialist sentiment remained strong in the middle class, chiefly owing to family
asciilifeform: tradition, but the job of administering the Empire had ceased to appeal. Few able men went east of Suez if there was any way of avoiding it.'
mircea_popescu: best one point plan for world domination i ever heard. plus it worked.
asciilifeform: (orwell's 'lion and the unicorn')
asciilifeform: yes, long, but dropped here for record.
asciilifeform: telegraph - major boost to the disease.
mircea_popescu: only in a sense.
asciilifeform: it made palatial micromanagement of an empire at least thinkable.
asciilifeform: before - it would have been caligula-grade lunacy
mircea_popescu: early internet - boost of disease, mature internet - cure
mircea_popescu: consider the doomed nature of centralism. so louis defeudalized france, forced the nobles away from their estates and relevancy, captive at versailles. fifty years later his heir was being decapitated, and the system collapsed.
mircea_popescu: a system, mind you, that had supported nine centuries of previous monarchs just fine
trinque: I read that article re: representative democracy, but it's clarified in the context of the current conversation
mircea_popescu: through horror of all type , famine, plague, rebellion, invasion, everything possible, thinkable and unthinkjable
mircea_popescu: all it took was merlin i mean mazarin
trinque: this experience of finding oneself to be using old concepts to try to label new data in the present was sort of what I was trying to describe with the meditation experience
mircea_popescu: and i'll take any bet that feudalism as promoted by b-a will take the piss, vinegar and cockroach guts out of any alternative, startingwith the usg
mircea_popescu: and ending with whatever the chinese will come up with at the final end of it.
trinque: I think sitting there I realized the fact of my own existence for the first time
trinque: as a sort of direct, sensory thing
mircea_popescu: lol careful not to fall in.
trinque: rather than a wad of concepts I believed
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/215PTRS.txt )
asciilifeform enjoys mircea_popescu's optimism but cannot as easily partake in it, from the prison-without-doors
assbot: If you've seen that many pornstars... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVq24S )
mircea_popescu: "This, I submit, is on its own sufficient proof that pornography is a wholesome, socially representative activity, whereas both cinematography and fashion are (by comparison at least) pernicious and very, very false. And that which is false can never be art, irrespective of all pretense to the contrary."
assbot: ClubOrlov: No escape ... ( http://bit.ly/1uVqnEC )
asciilifeform: ^ this article exemplifies everything i personally most dislike about herr orlov.
asciilifeform: why, i wonder, did he pick the indians as an example of 'the true path' and not, say, a stray dog ?
asciilifeform: he knows full well that it is every bit as possible to transform from what a civilized man is to a stray dog as to the indian.
asciilifeform: orlov himself is in no hurry to trade his computer for a spear.
mircea_popescu: he probably got a little horny for the nude girl at dating age
mircea_popescu: not so for any dog.
mircea_popescu: ;;google beautiful savage
gribble: Beautiful Savage Magazine — Art, Fashion and Lifestyle Magazine: <http://beautifulsavage.com/>; Submission Guidelines » Beautiful Savage: <http://beautifulsavage.com/submissions/>; Beautiful Savage | Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/BEAUT1FULSAVAGE>
mircea_popescu: hm mybad
mircea_popescu: ;;google nubile savage
gribble: Main/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NubileSavage>; Playing With/Nubile Savage - Television Tropes & Idioms: <http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PlayingWith/NubileSavage>; The Nubile Savage | History Today: <http://www.historytoday.com/michael-sturrna/nubile-savage>
asciilifeform: orlov plugs straight into 4+ centuries of 'noble savage' crap
assbot: Mo. Man Arrested After Telling Black Waitress He Wanted to Show Her Where He ‘Hung’ Her Grandpa - The Root ... ( http://bit.ly/18LvNxo )
asciilifeform: 'Tommy Dean Gaa, of Maryville, reportedly told the waitress, after she asked if he wanted wheat or white toast, that he was prejudiced and therefore would take white toast, according to a probable cause statement viewed by the Maryville Daily Forum.'
asciilifeform: obligatory sov. joke:
asciilifeform: winnie pooh walks into a butcher's shop, asks 'got mortadella' ? answer, 'sure' winnie pooh draws a submachinegun and spins round, round, round with it, mowing down everything that moves: 'for piiigleet!'
mircea_popescu: every asshole in a dinner is newsworthy now ?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: LOL
thestringpuller: I'm telling you. Quit your day job and become stand up comedian
mircea_popescu: dude could be a pretty rand standup comedian.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever tried it ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently. "Outrage fatigue"
asciilifeform: mortadella? sure
BingoBoingo: I imagine asciilifeform's object as similar to kakobrekla's objection. Involves going outside.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stand up comedy
mircea_popescu: it's usually practiced indoors...
asciilifeform: not unless everyday life counts.
mircea_popescu: it's like going to a bar, except free drinks
asciilifeform: (and where i live, it might)
asciilifeform: 'all the world's a stage' or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: nah, it went
mircea_popescu: Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player. That struts and frets his hour upon the stage. And then is heard no more: it is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and
mircea_popescu: something.
assbot: He’s got a ‘Downton Abbey’-inspired office, but Rep. Aaron Schock won’t talk about it. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/18LxrPC )
asciilifeform: re: inheritance tax crapolade: the usg elite does not bequeath/inherit via the usual mechanism, but rather by:
asciilifeform: !s merit washing
assbot: 25 results for 'merit washing' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=merit+washing
asciilifeform: i.e. send children to harvaprinceyaleton, internships in africa saving monkeys or whoever, they are then eminently paper-qualified and no one can possibly object (tm) to their ascendency as apparatchiks
asciilifeform: the process is reasonably well-documented by mr mold et al and i will not waste more space on it here
asciilifeform: except to remind n00bs of its existence on such occasions.
mircea_popescu: if moldy had bothered to run the demos rather than just too busy sitting on ass and opining, he'd have noticed this theory is about as leaky as his submarines.
mircea_popescu: run the numbers if you're bored.
asciilifeform: which numbers in particular ?
mircea_popescu: well, the ones contained in the theory. apparatchick count, ivy league output, rich list.
asciilifeform: recall that apparatchiks are not all, or even most, collecting official federal salaries.
mircea_popescu: see how many kids rich people of 1960 had, how many of them are in ivy league in 1980,
mircea_popescu: and of those how many in the apparatus by 2000
mircea_popescu: or, if you prefer, for simplicity, work backwards.
asciilifeform: iirc mr mold does not trace the descent of modern elite to the rich of 1960
mircea_popescu: who do we start with, de blasio ? cuomo ?
asciilifeform: in fact, specifically disclaims it
mircea_popescu: and if you say "this is midwest only" or "this is non democrat only " you already lost.
mircea_popescu: well then what's the testable hypothesis ?
asciilifeform: posits a phase transition some time in early '60s where the 'optimates' (his term, something like 'old money') were dethroned by 'brahmins' (the folks running the show today, socialist functionaries who work 'for the good of m4nk1nd')
mircea_popescu: but. what is. teh. teeeeestable.
mircea_popescu: hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: ya know ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise teh empty rhetoric is suspect of well... that.
asciilifeform: testable hypothesis is that folks presently coming in to officer the upper ranks of the usgarchy (including not merely cia, etc. but the vc circus) , are largely annointees of previous generation therein.
mircea_popescu: unlike what, post explosion tunguska ?
mircea_popescu: that's always the case.
asciilifeform: always, sure
asciilifeform: but in this case a specific mechanism is posited
asciilifeform: sub-rosa, maximally deniable annointment
mircea_popescu: which works about as well as random chance.
mircea_popescu: suppose the converse. i have a girl with any of my women, she witnesses the life in a harem geowing up, i tell her all the dirty secrets of the world because i dfon't give a fuck, i encourage her to parade naked in town when she's 16 and so on, and when i die i leave her half a billion in untraceable money.
mircea_popescu: and this chick's not going to succeed because um ?
mircea_popescu: obviously the offspring of the powerful will do just fine, unless a) the powerful's just a fake elite ;b) the offspring's retarded or c) both.
asciilifeform: wasn't even arguing against the succession per se (next what, i should argue against snow?) but the bizarre deception games
mircea_popescu: mebbe their gaminess' imagined.
asciilifeform: mebbe my chair is imagined
asciilifeform: and i'm actually on a stake.
mircea_popescu: tell me how does it feel
mircea_popescu: to be on a staaakeee...
mircea_popescu: anywya, ima brb
assbot: davecgh comments on The Bitcoin Consensus Red Herring ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8KHTo )
assbot: Logged on 10-10-2014 00:52:32; asciilifeform: slightly different situation here. btc user without full node is just as likely to be walking around in a barrel, deluded by dope into thinking he's driving a car (like the characters in s. lem's 'futurological congress')
asciilifeform: [insert all other known plato-wanks ever in this space]
asciilifeform: bbl, food
assbot: davecgh comments on The Bitcoin Consensus Red Herring ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8KUGb )
the_scourge: er, sorry. irssi not co-operating with x today
the_scourge: but interesting discussion anyways
the_scourge: i was reading some really old logs and ended up mindwandering into some things about consensus and the various btc implementations. i know the xcp guys have crossed this bridge as well, slightly different angle
assbot: Part 3: Cryptsy stole me 180 BTC (Withdraw locked) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/18LAUxE )
the_scourge: i don't care for reddit but the btcd guys were engaging in discussion on there
the_scourge: who is cryptsy and why should i care?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 161200 @ 0.00037484 = 60.4242 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !s derp
assbot: 1516 results for 'derp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=derp
BingoBoingo: !s ass*
assbot: 284517 results for 'ass*' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ass%2A
BingoBoingo: !s Cryptsy
assbot: 102 results for 'Cryptsy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Cryptsy
BingoBoingo: !s tits
assbot: 753 results for 'tits' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tits
BingoBoingo: the_scourge: ^ context
assbot: BitBet - Silk Road Deliberations Over 6 Hours :: 1.25 B (54%) on Yes, 1.06 B (46%) on No | closing in 23 hours 28 minutes | weight: 100`000 (100`000 to 100`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Murz )
the_scourge: now i know who they were and i still don't care
the_scourge: at least i'm better at unremembering things nowadays
the_scourge: 'night
cazalla: ^^^ this guy might've been able to steal more if he had the enough coins to make it worth his while to do some friendly fraud on coinbase but who knows
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: what is the resolution source on that bet?
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: I guess we are counting on the deliberation time being widely reported
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73500 @ 0.00038409 = 28.2306 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Comparing master...guicruft-snip · extempore/real-bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1AqfcuK )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42807 @ 0.00038415 = 16.4443 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: punkman: is that a total de-wxcrudification i see ?
asciilifeform: punkman: or only partial
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 170937 @ 0.00038299 = 65.4672 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform total chump, came back from buying super-pleasure-led light bulbs only to discover that they won't fit in a single fixture he has
mircea_popescu: pleasure leds ?
mircea_popescu: what are you, potted plant ?
asciilifeform learned from a previous chumpapade that the ones molded to occupy the space taken by ordinary bulb, are laughably dim
asciilifeform hence bought the 1600 lumen units
asciilifeform: ever so slightly too big.
mircea_popescu: "accidentally"
asciilifeform: not exactly. and not really a secret why
punkman: asciilifeform: punkman: is that a total de-wxcrudification i see ? << I think so
asciilifeform: (the massive heat sinks for the rectifier don't do well in enclosed domes. but idiots insisted on placing them therein anyway, torching their hose. never mind that my domes are open to 30cm of air on the top - can't allow fit!
asciilifeform: thinkofthechildren (tm)
mircea_popescu: see, if only dc won,
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't need rectifiers.
mircea_popescu: course the heat sink on the cables...
asciilifeform: what cables.
asciilifeform: bus bars.
asciilifeform: punkman: looks like you clobbered all of it, nice
asciilifeform: (if you need them in jungle conditions, a copper water pipe hammered flat generally suffices)
mircea_popescu: doesn't even have to be hammered
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generally, one ought to. 'skin effect' doesn't apply at dc.
mircea_popescu: better fittings available for proper pipe.
asciilifeform: better fittings - yes. for pipe.
asciilifeform: pipe to wire - problematic.
mircea_popescu: can always flatten the end :D
asciilifeform: i've been known to do just that.
asciilifeform: but i'm probably terminally lazy.
assbot: Яндекс.Фотки ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDOE76 )
asciilifeform: mega-l0l at the Yandex ads:
asciilifeform: 'Наука узнавания еврея по лицу Гид по еврейскому лицу на booknik.ru18+ booknik.ru'
asciilifeform: ('guide to recognizing a jew using his face! guide to the jewish face on ...'
asciilifeform: next ad is more mundane 'hotel rates in moscow' etc.
mircea_popescu: this is somehow of value ?
asciilifeform: of zoological value
asciilifeform: i have yet to see an ad like this on 'google'
asciilifeform: or in any engl. speaking venue
asciilifeform does not normally repost spam, but this is a serious new (to him) page in spamatronics
asciilifeform: as for the photo, i happen to like it. and think it would look good in any respectable salt mine.
asciilifeform: in break room.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: reddit article << now my turn to ask, what was the interesting part ?
asciilifeform: i'm unable to find one
asciilifeform: was it the stooge, proclaiming 'Then you shouldn't be pushing for btcd in the post. Btcd is harmful to consensus. Your proposal to have miners run multiple consensus implementations doesn't require btcd to exist and its existence doesn't benefit it.' ?
asciilifeform: we already know about the spam farms. it's over.
mircea_popescu: spam is over ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which reminds me, you know the joke with the jew an' the big mean dog ?
asciilifeform: 'only the dead shall see the end of spam'
asciilifeform: or the like
asciilifeform: big dog ?
asciilifeform: decimation: your cloak is broken.
mircea_popescu: a scrawny jewish real estate agent is going down the street to show a house to a customer. on the way, a large butchery, and in it a huge dog
mircea_popescu: which starts to bark quite furious. the jew stops in fear
decimation: oh no
mircea_popescu: the butcher, a huge guy with a huge mustache, "don't be afraid, it won't bite"
mircea_popescu: to which the jew retorts "my good man!
mircea_popescu: have you talked with the dog about this, or is it entirely your own opinion ?"
decimation: I wonder if it is because I joined before the cloak took effect
mircea_popescu: it ? getting flooded ?
asciilifeform: if using a braindamaged/misconfigured client, the time to stop is probably now
decimation: it's funny, I don't see many incoming packets
punkman: what's with the "(quit: Changing host)"?
mircea_popescu: nice last words.
mircea_popescu: "duck ? what duck ?! anvil ? what anvil ?"
asciilifeform: 'hey bubba, watch this'
asciilifeform learned these 'famous last words' without context, but always imagined a frag involved
mircea_popescu: ;;google 'hey bubba, watch this'
gribble: Hey Bubba, watch this! - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktMdSmIwJ8Y>; HEY BUBBA - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkEyaynMV-Y>; Hey Bubba Watch This by Ray Stevens | Song | Free Music, Listen ...: <https://myspace.com/raystevensmusic/music/song/hey-bubba-watch-this-43324733-99663337>
mod6: hi all
punkman: decimation: you need to use SASL
decimation: punkman: I did use sasl
mircea_popescu: use it twice!
punkman: decimation: you were already using it?
asciilifeform sits and contemplates mircea_popescu's software license, and increasingly likes it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform have you notice how my shit grows on one in retrospect ?
decimation: punkman: ah no, apparently I failed to configure it when I changed computers
mircea_popescu: starts as a joke, which is kinda funny, except haha, only funny, except hm... etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i like to think i've pulled off this effect once or twice on folks
mircea_popescu: what did the father of the girl schopenhauer was courting say ?
mircea_popescu: "he's a nice enough fellow, if only he were more serious."
asciilifeform is inescapably curious re: how the license in the article would actually behave in a secular court
asciilifeform: should it somehow make its appearance there
asciilifeform: the last clause of part (ii) would probably give a traditional jurist indigestion
asciilifeform: but - ianal
mircea_popescu: actually it would in principle bar any sort of legally organised body from ever using the software.
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: no shit
mircea_popescu: so it's moot.
asciilifeform: but is contract (implicit, 'shrinkwrap', otherwise) where one promises to break a law, a valid contract ?
asciilifeform: for all i know the whole thing would be tossed, like a rich man's prenup
mircea_popescu: well but if the whole thing's tossed then they have not acquired the right to use it.
mircea_popescu: secular law is positive.
asciilifeform: but then it's just like a missing license.
mircea_popescu: no, it's like an actual unlicense.
asciilifeform: ^ good name
asciilifeform: short, descriptive.
asciilifeform: unlicense.
punkman: next we will start planning the real unmonastery
mircea_popescu: o no, that i already built.
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2015#1005496 << James C. Scott writes about this "legibility/illegibility" thing, quite relevant
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2015 23:19:43; mircea_popescu: exactly antitethical to how wots work, incidentally. because coherence is the only possible attacxk against a wot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu risks becoming famous as an 'anarchist' eben moglen now.
mircea_popescu: i can't be famous, for obvious reasons.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu built un-nunnery
mircea_popescu: only the politically impotent can ever be famous.
assbot: Aseara fusei la una... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDTFwy )
asciilifeform: un-monaster probably can only exist in neal stephenson's novel 'anathem.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89394 @ 0.0003716 = 33.2188 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 12:58:09; punkman: http://unmonastery.org/
decimation: apparently my ISP simply cuts me off if there's an incoming flood
mircea_popescu: standard practice on cheap home connections, and the only reason the shit's even effective in any sense.
asciilifeform: decimation: i'm curious how you determined that this is so, rather than the ordinary behaviour of a flooded router
decimation: I was watching incoming packets on my main router
decimation: went from something to zero, but it took about 30 seconds
cazalla: http://www.cio.com.au/article/565496/webjet-exclusives-trials-bitcoin-payments/ sorta interesting if ya australia, not qntra newsworthy on account i would be stuck writing abc business converts bitcoin to fiat 24/7 otherwise
assbot: Webjet Exclusives trials Bitcoin payments - CIO ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDUi9j )
mircea_popescu: cazalla can't even be bothered to bet on it. "they'll make a bitcoin's worth of sales the first week, then half a bitcoin the next year and then that's that."
mircea_popescu: "driving adoption" the reddit way.
cazalla: well, at least they had the sense to avoid zhou's coinjar by going with bitpos instead
cazalla: might raise the eyebrow of vexual, think we're the only 2 aussies..
asciilifeform: re: ddos: i'm still at a loss at how snmp/ntp amplification ddosnets can carry on existing without a 'tragedy of the commons' situation - recall, anyone here could in principle invoke the chumpnet at any time
asciilifeform: by sending precisely the same kind of forged packets the idiot sends
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cause we don't give a shit ?
decimation: who am I gonna spam?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well yes. but it also appears that no one, anywhere, gives a shit
mircea_popescu: there's this very narrow lost demographic, mostly at the periphery of the world, made up of kids smart enough to be able to do it but dumb enough to not have anything better to do.
asciilifeform: consider, any spammer in need of a ddosnet can simply walk into #b-a
mircea_popescu: it is really very very narrow.
asciilifeform: and get one for free
mircea_popescu: like, toothbrush sidewalk cleaners.
asciilifeform: that has to be it.
asciilifeform: i can't picture any other explanation, presently
mircea_popescu: if you can do it with a toothbrush you could ... restore art, or make your own, or be a surgeon or etc.
decimation: maybe someone should compile the list of broken devices and sell it on -otc?
mircea_popescu: decimation but the people who could do it could get it anyway
asciilifeform: decimation: kakobrekla and i already posted, for free...
mircea_popescu: and anyone else a) doesn't hjave the money and b) would just be happy to send you support tickets
asciilifeform: they also are not especially hard to scan for in the wild
mircea_popescu: because the webwhrores charge for talking to them
asciilifeform: which also helps to explain the disinterest
assbot: O hai let me wanna-be! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdrrJj )
mircea_popescu: chumps are routinely downed for their troubles. but "dunno what it was ?!?!?!"
decimation: mircea_popescu: the guy is persistant, I would grant that though
asciilifeform: how much persistence does it take to leave an automaton going.
decimation: I'm not sure what point he is making, other than helping sort newbies here
mircea_popescu: in the sense that a nineteen year old with a very messy room is a persistent masturbator, sure.
decimation: well, presumably he has other people to harass for profit
mircea_popescu: hey, want this bridge btw ? i'm selling it.
mircea_popescu: i make a lot of money selling bridges.
asciilifeform: on the days when b-a noobs are unmolested, presumably someone else is being serviced
decimation: are you a professional with a license?
mircea_popescu: i am a successful online bridge merchant.
asciilifeform: bridge like a pro in twenty-one days.
mircea_popescu: i can have my customers contact you if you wish
mircea_popescu: i am the one that sold the ukalele guggenheim bridge in abudja
assbot: twenty-one days book - Google Search ... ( http://bit.ly/1zds4CC )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104219 @ 0.00037237 = 38.808 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: learn to write twenty-one days books in just twenty-one days
asciilifeform: i have this notion that the original was the cpp one.
mircea_popescu: "my twenty-one days dating twenty-one twenty-one day book authors"
asciilifeform: 'learn c++ in 21 days'
mircea_popescu: "my twenty-one days dating twenty-one twenty-one years old twenty-one day book authors"
asciilifeform: some wag had a (unfortunately parodic) 'learn to code in 21 years'
mircea_popescu: how i learned twenty one languages twenty one times in twenty one days
mircea_popescu: wait wut
mircea_popescu: a that. yeah.
cazalla: figured it was new aspect to that story, don't remember reading in logs he planned to arrest that chick
mircea_popescu: yeah it was one of the numerous points making a juicy press story
mircea_popescu: anyway, he can't actually do it. you can;t arrest a president.
mircea_popescu: however, her term's about over, after which...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im pretty sure it was.
mircea_popescu: early 90s
mod6: incase anyone was interested, here's my errors from yesterday: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=iweEQCpu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108850 @ 0.00037444 = 40.7578 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2015_02_03/caredit.a1500027 << "But the first report on the class of 2015 from the respected National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE), which conducts multiple surveys of employers’ hiring intentions throughout the year, projects a 9% drop in the salaries of new computer science bachelor's degree graduates, from $67,300 in 2014 to $61,287 this
assbot: Another funny thing happened on the way to the STEM shortage | Science Careers ... ( http://bit.ly/1DDYtBR )
decimation: year."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130795 @ 0.00036764 = 48.0855 BTC [-]
mike_c: jurov: please and ty: http://pastebin.com/Dp3RbqtU
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Please deposit s.qntr shares - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DE0RbQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40886 @ 0.0003676 = 15.0297 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: ^ re: that thing
asciilifeform: mod6: 'ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed' always ?
mod6: I could try it again.
asciilifeform: mod6: i notice it was the same in the first pastebin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53761 @ 0.00036626 = 19.6905 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mod6: do these refer to 2 distinct runs ?
mod6 looks back
mod6: yeah, two seperate runs
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdDTbN )
asciilifeform: grep your debug.log for any other instances of 'VerifySignature failed'
mod6: yeah.
mod6: I see that.
mod6 looks @ main.cpp
asciilifeform: it isn't in any of my debug.log.
asciilifeform: in my entire collection
asciilifeform: (which is a few years long)
asciilifeform: but this doesn't tell us anything earth-shaking, yet
mod6: hmm. i remember this bit of code in main
asciilifeform: in turn,
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1xc8NMz )
asciilifeform: is the only place where fBlock is true
danielpbarron: my pogo running asciilifeform's bastard crashes quite often
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: as did mine
asciilifeform: but how often.
danielpbarron: every hour or so
asciilifeform: and what kind of crash
asciilifeform: the usual oom ?
asciilifeform: i'm actually not certain that 250 is low enough setting to make a detectable difference on pogo
danielpbarron: std::bad_alloc
asciilifeform: ^ that'd be an oom.
asciilifeform: the bastard patch made the thing actually usable on pc for the first time (in my view)
asciilifeform: but has not solved the central problem of pogo
danielpbarron: is this something swap space would solve?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99475 @ 0.00036382 = 36.191 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: swapping on a pogo is a nonstarter
asciilifeform: go ahead, try it
danielpbarron: i'll take your word for it :p
asciilifeform: (for one thing, you are liable to nuke your ssd, if you have one)
asciilifeform: by no means is anyone encouraged to take my word for things.
danielpbarron: i'm currently using a sdd
danielpbarron: the old-fashioned laptop spinny drive arrive today
asciilifeform: swapping is the more or less one guaranteed way to ruin an arbitrarily good ssd.
danielpbarron: what about spinning drive for swap and usb3 flash drive for chain
asciilifeform: requiring a spinning drive is bleh
danielpbarron: rather not have to do that though
asciilifeform: not to mention dog slow
asciilifeform: as in, unusably
asciilifeform: bitcoin could handily run under 100MB constant if the whole bastards thing were somehow bulldozed
asciilifeform: in my 'valgrind' experiments, i've found that it is responsible for virtually all growth in footprint since powerup
assbot: Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdFQ8k )
asciilifeform: ^ interesting
danielpbarron has a fresh new gentoo install
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: tried building yet ?
asciilifeform: note that you can build for pc if you replace the cross compiler with standard gcc
danielpbarron: waiting for stuff to install
asciilifeform: you can then use same script ('portatronic')
asciilifeform: for all builds
danielpbarron: what is the prefered format for documentation? .txt, .html ?
asciilifeform: i'd say txt
mod6: it seems like the growing thought seems to be to get a list of 50300 active nodes and seed those directly into the R.I., or am I misunderstanding that??
asciilifeform: iirc that was the closest thing to a plan
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Russian Index RTS to drop under 500 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1109/ Odds: 21(Y):79(N) by coin, 30(Y):70(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.0574767 BTC. Current weight: 50,712.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to top $1500 before 16 May" http://bitbet.us/bet/1106/ Odds: 21(Y):79(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.3 BTC. Current weight: 81,880.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 18(Y):82(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 53.573 BTC. Current weight: 93,664.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Obama Impeached" http://bitbet.us/bet/1062/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.6059 BTC. Current weight: 74,101.
assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdGzpO )
mod6 looks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106400 @ 0.00036126 = 38.4381 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: BitcoinStats ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdHFlC )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95132 @ 0.00036576 = 34.7955 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: thanks for the links asciilifeform
mod6: thx punkman
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