Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-01-15 | 2015-01-17 → ↓
mircea_popescu: yeah but...
mircea_popescu: so what if they do watch it ?
BingoBoingo: They must acquit
mircea_popescu: you know, for an ironclad case the prosecution claims, and for an independence from the state the judge pretends,
BingoBoingo: Because Gox collapsed because the FBI took all of Karpales coins in the silk road bust.
mircea_popescu: these people are pretty fucking worried.
assbot: The trial is going in the favor of defense and they are panicking so we can't give them a reason to anonymize the jury. No signs. No signs.
mircea_popescu: why is she dumb enough to play ball lmao.
mircea_popescu: let them "anonymize" the jury. da fuck do you care.
mircea_popescu: not like you're going to do anything whatsoever BECAUSE of the usg.
mircea_popescu: never again. do what you will, and fuck them.
decimation: interesting, the march 15 euro future on CME is at $1.16, with a $1.16 call at $0.0248 and put at $0.0195
mircea_popescu: expecting more volatility ?
asciilifeform: lol, they let the jury home ?
decimation: I guess the simple call-put analysis would imply a future increase in price
decimation: but that was the case a few weeks ago, and the future has fallen
decimation: I suppose the simple (call-put) analysis ignores the prevailing interest rates in each currency, which would also affect the future price
assbot: Transaction Fees and the Future of Bitcoin | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/14GCU7F )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: buffett's textile plants: i once worked with a greybeard - a former director of a research lab at, iirc, kodak (many years ago.) he was reduced to programming by ill fortune, age, disease. told many stories, but concerning textiles, that his laboratory was built inside an abandoned textiles plant, one of a great many in the american south.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It seems so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they were abruptly hollowed out and made good 'floors' for remaining concerns - pharma, call centres, etc.
mircea_popescu: it's a fine way to gut a well established entreprise.
mircea_popescu: "revolutionize" it.
decimation: kodak is an excellent example of a company selling off its economically viable business for no reason
mircea_popescu: that's not really the mechanism here tho.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if ever there was a social experiment to illustrate just how little computer geeks understand, bitcoin's it.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of things seem obvious by simile to people with no experience and not much intellectual curiosity.
asciilifeform isn't certain that 'computer geeks' - as commonly understood - were yet ever involved with bitcoin in appreciable numbers
mircea_popescu: yet somehow their inability to score girlfriends or be the life of the party does not even begin to hint to them that perhaps they're ill prepared to judge economic phenomena.
mircea_popescu: dunning kruger is not reserved to idiots. it's just another name for the aspie's sufferance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean mostly the ruby and web2.0 "we r code" bunch.
mircea_popescu: like gavin, or the rest. the million people that's a million extra hands on github
asciilifeform: the programmatory equivalent of chinese textile labourers ?
mircea_popescu: them exactly.
mircea_popescu: it's what computer geek means, these days. "shy, socially awkward teenager that doesn't know how to use computers, in spite of spending a lot of time with them"
decimation: so, the chinese peasant is a textile hobbyist in the way that the 'computer geek' is a programming hobbyist?
decimation: yeah, I can see that. note that this wave of 'volunteers' makes life very difficult for actual pros
mircea_popescu: they probably learn more useful & important stuff playing counterstrike than mashing the kbd for code.
asciilifeform: except that cloth unquestionably exists and is useful.
mircea_popescu: decimation oh, it's noted.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cloth unquestionably exists ; so exists bad code.
mircea_popescu: that it's useful... depends.
mircea_popescu: i keep the girls nude indoors.
mircea_popescu: and outdoors half the time for that matter.
mircea_popescu: now if in question were shoes... or rifles... but they aren't, are they.
asciilifeform: those are shoes ?!
mircea_popescu: after a fashoen
asciilifeform: this wave of 'volunteers' makes life very difficult for actual pros << how??
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3000 @ 0.00068347 = 2.0504 BTC [+] {8}
asciilifeform: (i can think of perhaps one or two ways, but labour competition is quite certainly not one of them)
mircea_popescu: hard to be found and find peers when drowning in sewage & assorted cuntpuss
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3000 @ 0.00068347 = 2.0504 BTC [+] {8}
asciilifeform: this, yes
mircea_popescu: o, you need more /
asciilifeform: the extinction of adequate physical equipment, also.
mircea_popescu: "not worth making anymore", because "no market".
mircea_popescu: because somehow inexplicably cuntpuss has purchasing power. for shame.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Are those shoes hard forms?
asciilifeform: sufficiently many ants - kill elephant.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic they look to me like a steel frame tied to the calf and foot.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: I've been looking for a heel form specifically like that to wear for long trips in my sportscar. Minus all the metal and straps. I think a heel form support over the outside of a vibram would probably double my range without rest.
midnightmagic: (without wrecking my ability to heel&toe)
mircea_popescu: twenty years ago you could have leather shoes made by design to order in quantities of one, up in harlem.
mircea_popescu: by now... i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: there must be some shop left somewhere that still does it. they make chain mail by hand and whatnot, i can't imagine shoemakers all died out.
midnightmagic: that's a good idea.. for a long time I thought I'd have to cast a form out of carbon fiber or something
mircea_popescu: you can trivially make it out of silicone. it'll suck.
midnightmagic: i need undeformable support. the weight of my leg on my heel while driving is pretty excruciating, but normal shoes would ruin my feel of the floor and pedals
midnightmagic: anyway, excuse the offtopic
midnightmagic: or.. tangent at any rate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30581 @ 0.00044286 = 13.5431 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30581 @ 0.00044286 = 13.5431 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1E6rOpa )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.0004433 = 3.5242 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.0004433 = 3.5242 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.0004433 = 5.1866 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.0004433 = 5.1866 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00043667 = 16.7026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38250 @ 0.00043667 = 16.7026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38869 @ 0.00043165 = 16.7778 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38869 @ 0.00043165 = 16.7778 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7579 @ 0.0004433 = 3.3598 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7579 @ 0.0004433 = 3.3598 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00044758 = 11.3238 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00044758 = 11.3238 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.0004462 = 5.109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.0004462 = 5.109 BTC [-]
assbot: Bitcoin White Rock, Ashley Barr, DPR Connection : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1G6tLGV )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.00044906 = 15.9865 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.00044906 = 15.9865 BTC [+] {3}
davout: fluffypony: lulzy
davout: fluffypony: do you know a monero executive summary?
fluffypony: davout: how short a summary do you want?
davout: 2~3 pages to start i'd say
davout: just so i have an idea what it's about so i can dig further if needed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00045176 = 19.1998 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00045176 = 19.1998 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00045861 = 17.817 BTC [+]
assbot: Monero | News and Announcements » Monday Monero Missives #22 - Year in Review, January 5th, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1E6Nmlx )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00045861 = 17.817 BTC [+]
davout: looks great tyvm!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9577 @ 0.00044578 = 4.2692 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9577 @ 0.00044578 = 4.2692 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00045861 = 6.5123 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00045861 = 6.5123 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.000441 = 6.152 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.000441 = 6.152 BTC [-]
jurov: pity the monero memory problem isn't resolved yet (keeps blockchain in memory, needs 30G)
jurov: just for fun i have tried to cap RSS using control groups so that the rest would go to swap
jurov: it worked for maybe a day, then linux died
BingoBoingo: Everyone dies, but one day before die is dissaponting amount of die
davout: jurov: ouch
fluffypony: jurov: you mean 3gb
fluffypony: definitely not 30gb
fluffypony: and the lmdb branch is reasonably stable, but Linux only at this stage
assbot: tewinget/bitmonero at blockchain · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1AXXgVN )
jurov: ohh so i remember wrong.. reports actually say 5-6GB
jurov: still was too much
jurov: will try that branch, thx
fluffypony: yep it doubles up to 6gb when its spooling to disk (every 12 hours), as it creates a copy of the blockchain object
assbot: This is probably going to be disappointing for you, but I am not and have never been Dread Pirate Roberts.
fluffypony: so just a regular scammer, then
jurov: it's completely incomprehensible to me why they have chosen karpeles of all people
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34827 @ 0.00045873 = 15.9762 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34827 @ 0.00045873 = 15.9762 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: any idea?
BingoBoingo: Well Where might McCaleb have met Kapeles if not the silk road over a spoonful of black tar?
BingoBoingo: Just wild speculation
thestringpuller: fluffypony: took him 24 hours to compose that statemetn?
fluffypony: thestringpuller: nah, probably only a couple of minutes - you have to remember that he would only have heard the news shortly before that Tweet, what with the self-induced mocha frappacino coma binge he's been on lately
thestringpuller: no wonder the Feds were able to compromise Silk Road if Tux was running it.
fluffypony: they offered him donuts and lattes until he gave them the server keys
thestringpuller: d00d they are calling him a supervillian already
fluffypony: Dr. Latte!
thestringpuller: a super villian would have been running this shit from Africa and would have actually killed people in the process
thestringpuller: And instead of being arrested by feds and tried, Obama would have sent a drone.
thestringpuller: today is a punk rock day
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.00045491 = 15.6489 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.00045491 = 15.6489 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00045993 = 7.2209 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00045993 = 7.2209 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 15-01-2015 21:14:46; kakobrekla: also some fx brokerages closed.
assbot: lifeboatz comments on "Defense in Silk Road trial arguing Mark Karpeles, CEO of Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox, was the real mastermind behind Silk Road." ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykucK9 )
BingoBoingo: !up mircea_popescu
TomServo: Another great article BingoBoingo.
BingoBoingo: Thanks TomServo, been chewing on that one too long prolly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol always great to read the comedy gold classics every time us policy backfires massively.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo " So far it hasn't been enforced due to its extreme vagary, but in the unstable environment of applied United States law. Not with the sudden resurgence of threats to invoke the All Writs Act reentering the public discourse in late 2014."
mircea_popescu: that not right in there ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Just rewrote that sentence, hazard of multi session writing.
mircea_popescu: "Expenditure for the year comprised of 3 totals as some costs could not be settled in BTC or were preferably settled in XMR. Our expenditure was 190.513492 BTC + 1 891.31 XMR + US $5 732.80, which is around the 212 BTC mark. Thus the shortfall of 164.5 BTC was paid out of the Core Team's own pockets in the hopes of recovering the funds later on (ie. just in case anyone was wondering, not only do the core team not get p
mircea_popescu: aid at all, but we've put a significant amount of funds into Monero)."
mircea_popescu: this would explain the shockingly large 50 btc donations figure for an altcoin i guess.
mircea_popescu: 35 weeks of development (245 days) since Monero was inherited by the Core Team 594 separate commits << inherited by whom ? how ? if that inherited had linked to a gpg signed testament...
davout: mircea_popescu: maybe in the sense that it was inherited as a messy bytecoin code base
mircea_popescu: i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00045699 = 6.5578 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu hated that "illustrative" graph too. fucking sleek but meaningless graphics.
mircea_popescu: Testing infrastructure consists of a Mac Mini hosted at MacStadium, as well as a beefy testing box hosted at Hetzner in Germany, on which we have a number of VMs for the various operating systems and variants we target. >> much better.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00045699 = 6.5578 BTC [-]
davout: i was personnally quite impressed by the "let's start by a financial report"
mircea_popescu: ok, sure. not bad that.
mircea_popescu: "OpenAlias is different. Not only does it "square Zooko's triangle" " << the entire discusison of that thing (my mind went, ok, let's try and poke one particular thing and see" is nice and all for the zooko discussion, but a) it's not clear to me what's the relation to open alias corporation if any
mircea_popescu: (when what looks like a term of art has basically two apparently divorced meanings via google, it's suspicious if they don't seem mutually aware)
mircea_popescu: in any case it'd benefit from an explanation of itself.
mircea_popescu: "With the two attacks we thwarted in 2014, the GUI development had to take a bit of a backseat." << in depth description ? links ? somehow for me to evaluate if they're due to the world being full of idiots (ddos ?) or the devs being idiots (we were using ruby!!1)
mircea_popescu: Hey! This page will never end! Just keep on scrolling to see more posts! < lol busted. anyway! i guess it goes back i nthe pile that has been holding "open transactyions" since about 2011.
mircea_popescu: "And for three years it worked. But on Thursday the Swiss suddenly gave up. We don’t know exactly why; nobody I know believes the official explanation, that it’s a response to a weakening euro. " << ha-ha. everyone you DON'T know knows the explanation. it was published on fucking trilema for crissakes, not even as a news item.
mircea_popescu: that what the us considers important thinkers have no access to basic data, because they're isolated on a WoI, should speak volumes.
TomServo: In glancing through the comments on Krugman's piece, he seems to be getting pretty well lambasted there.
mircea_popescu: nah, it didn't happen.
mircea_popescu: those people just failed to "enter the looking glass world" when "everybody" did.
mircea_popescu: they were left on this other side with nobody, and putin.
mircea_popescu: it's kind-of remarkable (not really) just how self-labeling stupidity actually is. the difference between trying to "explain yourself" as an idiot and simply wearing a lot of large "hey everyone, i'm the idiot!" signs and tags is hard to notice.
mircea_popescu: "So let’s learn from the Swiss. They’ve been careful; they’ve maintained sound money for generations. And now they’re paying the price."
mircea_popescu: such a price, rly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00045699 = 11.7218 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00045699 = 11.7218 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: Apparently the dollar fell against 87 octane yesterday at retail
assbot: How to sound smart in your TEDx Talk | Will Stephen | TEDxNewYork - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cwd4Pe )
assbot: What I find interesting about it, is that it appears to be effortless; like these are the cast offs, the "While ima here, Ill let you know".
mircea_popescu: i dunno what that means ?
BingoBoingo: I'm not sure either, but the tweets surrounding it are praise
rithm: BingoBoingo I know some spots who sell 87 octane for 1.88 cash and 1.99 credit fwiw
rithm: sorta recentish
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00045658 = 13.6061 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: rithm: There's one that always has that spread a couple towns over.
rithm: interesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00045658 = 13.6061 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: But yesterday Went from $1.79 up to $2.09 and this morning back to $1.79, that volatility
assbot: Man who sold LSU equipment chooses jail over revealing player source - CBSSports.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1G8nMBn )
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: "LSU football equipment is leased to student-athetes, who are not allowed to give it away or sell it." fucking outrage.
BingoBoingo: Well according to the NCAA written rules, they aren't alowed to. According to the unwritten rules of the actual government of the sport they totally are allowed to give away and sell it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22026 @ 0.00044678 = 9.8408 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Legitimate government of Sicily is not in Rome sort of situation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22026 @ 0.00044678 = 9.8408 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12597 @ 0.0004606 = 5.8022 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12597 @ 0.0004606 = 5.8022 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.12999976 = 1.69 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.12999976 = 1.69 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: !up mircea_popescu
TomServo: !up astRocreep
assbot: OneRNG - An Open and Verifiable hardware random number generator - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1C7QP3P )
kakobrekla: or was is freeend
assbot: Don't sell yourself short on EBay - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1C7TavO )
xanthyos: hello fellow bitcoiners, what are my poker chips worth today?
jurov: ;;rate
gribble: (rate <nick> <rating> [<notes>]) -- Enters a rating for <nick> in the amount of <rating>. Use optional <notes> field to enter any notes you have about this user. <nick> must be the user's GPG-registered username, Your previously existing rating, if any, will be overwritten.
jurov: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 205.02, Best ask: 205.73, Bid-ask spread: 0.71000, Last trade: 205.76, 24 hour volume: 48633.20568306, 24 hour low: 192.0, 24 hour high: 224.0, 24 hour vwap: 211.159397315
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16675 @ 0.00044555 = 7.4295 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16675 @ 0.00044555 = 7.4295 BTC [-] {2}
xanthyos: !up mircea_popescu
thestringpuller: Argentina got dat recipe
thestringpuller: dem 3 w's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11790 @ 0.000441 = 5.1994 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11790 @ 0.000441 = 5.1994 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20210 @ 0.00044085 = 8.9096 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20210 @ 0.00044085 = 8.9096 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2005 @ 0.00067011 = 1.3436 BTC [-] {8}
mod6: !up mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2809 @ 0.00066791 = 1.8762 BTC [-] {12}
jurov: kakobrekla: maybe because cardano nor its rng is not released yet?
asciilifeform: wait wat
asciilifeform: why would that thing mention it ever
kakobrekla: yea yea
jurov: yea, for example NeuG claims: It is a true RNG, with SHA-256 conditioning component.
asciilifeform: hilarity.
jurov: cardano is another league than this
asciilifeform: i wish i knew why folks still think rng is high science. it isn't.
kakobrekla: well they rave about "support other crypto project"
kakobrekla: but only the unworthy.
asciilifeform: there used to be at least half a dozen small pc-based rng on the market.
kakobrekla: and mp had direct contact with the man iirc
kakobrekla: so i guess i had my expectations scammed
jurov: i went on some googling why the "conditioning" and found this gem: http://lwn.net/Articles/525204/
assbot: Development [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1C80UOa )
jurov: Most entropy sources don't produce "good" random numbers. The source may, for example, produce ones only 25% of the time. This doesn't negate the value of the source. However, the "obvious" non-randomness must be eliminated; that is the task of the conditioner.
jurov: The output of the conditioner is then fed into a cryptographically secure pseudo-random number generator (CSPRNG). The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the entropy source.
asciilifeform: 'conditioning' normally called 'whitening'
asciilifeform: why these folks renamed it, i cannot say.
asciilifeform: !s whitening
assbot: 15 results for 'whitening' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitening
asciilifeform: ^ past threads
jurov: wtf "difficult about reason"?
jurov: Thus, it is possible to say that the resulting device is at least as secure as a CSPRNG, but, since we have a constant stream of new seeds, we can be confident that it is actually a better source of random numbers than a CSPRNG that is seeded less frequently.
asciilifeform: 'whitening' an rng is mostly fooling yourself.
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:38:05; asciilifeform: Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.
jurov: if it would be merely about von neumann, then ok
asciilifeform: von neumann's balancer is not a whitener.
jurov: but these people nave a need to construct such reasoning
jurov: *have
asciilifeform: (how and why it works is a primary school level mathematical proof. i recommend that anyone unfamiliar with it, try to derive)
jurov: "the more often we seed it, the better"
assbot: Go ahead Jim Prentice: raise taxes in Alberta and see if by 2025 the province isn’t an economic shithole like Quebec and Ontario. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1C81kEe )
pete_dushenski: somehow ended up almost 2300 words in length
pete_dushenski: gotta give the politicians something to chew on over the weekend
thestringpuller: hey look a pete_dushenski
thestringpuller: i see him more often now
thestringpuller: Quebec is cool as fuck
pete_dushenski: your eyes are just getting better
thestringpuller: I <3 french canadians
pete_dushenski: fantastic place to visit, wouldn't want to live there.
pete_dushenski: so i visit pretty much every year
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller where are you located again?
thestringpuller: the lost city of Atlanta
thestringpuller: !up mircea_popescu
pete_dushenski: a yes, where that *other* very bad racist joo is trying to sell the basketball team
pete_dushenski: levenson or something
thestringpuller: i never knew he owned the hawks until recently
thestringpuller: people aren't really complaining too heavily tho locally since the teams is actually good this season
thestringpuller: fucking 60 bucks for nose bleed tickets
pete_dushenski: what else is levenson known for?
TomServo: Is that the 'no, I assure you I'm racist' self-outing guy?
pete_dushenski: apparently donald sterling is a bit of a trend setter
thestringpuller: i srsly though the hawks were still owned by Ted Turner/Time Warner
thestringpuller: thought*
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> and mp had direct contact with the man iirc << who this again ?
kakobrekla: onerng or what was it
mircea_popescu: well whos the guy ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> why these folks renamed it, i cannot say. << guess/
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you're missing the point. he won't be there in 2025.
pete_dushenski: there's no term limit in alberta
pete_dushenski: though he could well be another fall guy
pete_dushenski: like the last chick, lawyer whatever her name was
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> well whos the guy ? < fuck if i know. i just made a bet he wont reply, but he did. iirc.
kakobrekla: not important any way.
mircea_popescu: In the immortal rights of Moss, Goddamn right, that's right. Guys come on: "Oh, the blah blah blah, I know what I'll do: I'll go in and rob everyone blind and go to Argentina cause nobody ever thought of this before."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1444 @ 0.00069457 = 1.003 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: "The reason for doing this is that we can better reason about the output of a CSPRNG; by contrast, it is difficult to reason about the output of the entropy source." << gotta love the sweet innocence on display here tho.
mircea_popescu: "why do we interact with the fantastic representations in our head rather than with the flesh and blood woman before us ? IT IS EASIER!"
mircea_popescu: mmmmmyeah.
mircea_popescu: it's not even "easy-difficulty" it's now "better-difficult". fucking psychotic generation already.
assbot: Watch SpaceX's Vine "Close, but no cigar. This time." ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZeCS6 )
pete_dushenski: same as the linear projection braindamage
pete_dushenski: bandwidth, govn't revenue, same shit
pete_dushenski: not enough art classes for kids so they get all obsessed with rulers and crayons as adults
pete_dushenski: "look mom, i made a straight line to infinity!"
mircea_popescu: "here's the temperatures in the past 30 years. on the basis of this, here's how the temperatures woud have been in the past 5000 years, if our presupositions are correct. on the basis of this, here's the story of the future : our presupositions are correct"
mircea_popescu: herpy-derp an' a bottle of rum... well not rum. ginger ale.
pete_dushenski: fizzy bubbly
assbot: You Dont Mess With The Zohan - FIZZY BUBBLECH - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZfjL3 )
assbot: UPI.com (@UPI) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQTS4C )
pete_dushenski: "JUST IN: Bank of America CEO calls for calm: Savings accounts will not be affected by federal reserve decision."
pete_dushenski: "Pope: "World War III has begun" "
pete_dushenski: "US Joint Chief of staff: USS George Washington damaged, US navy now engaged in active combat against Chinese vessels in South China sea."
pete_dushenski: ^i'm gonna go with yes
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski 2016
thestringpuller: vote for pete_dushenski !!!
pete_dushenski: i already broke into the b-a lordship in 2014 so...
assbot: Exclusive: White House says net neutrality legislation not needed| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQUHKM )
assbot: Vamos a morir Todos ; III guerra mundial - ForoCoches ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQUNSu )
pete_dushenski: it's gone viral!
pete_dushenski: also, the white house "doesn't need" all kinds of things it can't do, like stop assad or whatever
asciilifeform: !up midnightmagic
asciilifeform: !up mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski it would seem the story there isthat obama knows that congress can be bought quite cheaply
mircea_popescu: it's an unstable situation this, where the supposedly senior rulemaker is cheaper to buy than the supposedly junior partner.
mircea_popescu: the solution are as always : either make the senior much richer (which really is not feasible) or break the relationship.
asciilifeform: 'My suggestion was quite simple: Put that needed code number in a little capsule, and then implant that capsule right next to the heart of a volunteer. The volunteer would carry with him a big, heavy butcher knife as he accompanied the President. If ever the President wanted to fire nuclear weapons, the only way he could do so would be for him first, with his own hands, to kill one human being.'
assbot: The Heart of Deterrence | Restricted Data ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQWbV8 )
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu sorry, which relationship are you referring to here?
mircea_popescu: congress-white house
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform who's this idiot
pete_dushenski: well obama might be the senior partner, but he's only one man
pete_dushenski: which should conceivably always be cheaper than a whole hoard of congressmen
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: some academic, quoted in longer piece
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski government is the junior partner by tradition / legislation
pete_dushenski: and since the legislation is choking on its own vomit, the tradition is changing?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33435 @ 0.00044609 = 14.915 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33435 @ 0.00044609 = 14.915 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: The FBI Says It Can't Find Hackers to Hire Because They All Smoke Pot | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ap12EX )
MetatronOne: how saad
mircea_popescu: kinda old tho
MetatronOne: well just saw it, had a lol
MetatronOne: well atleast they can start smoking while undercover
mircea_popescu: it's somehow the fashionable thing, i dunno.
undata: this pot legality thing is just another american political football. no one ever had trouble getting weed, nor passing a drug test. its a distraction issue.
jurov: rly, no one ever had trouble?
undata: no one with a brain
asciilifeform: at one point, doping test was more fashionable than today
asciilifeform: and it was not necessary to work for usg per se to fall under it.
assbot: BitBet - The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015 :: 9.52 B (24%) on Yes, 30.87 B (76%) on No | closing in 10 months 2 weeks | weight: 99`394 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KQZk7o )
undata: asciilifeform: I guess I'm speaking as a guy in his 20s
undata: I'm thinking of Oregon's legalization and how its lauded as some social victory
undata: meh, life has not materially changed
asciilifeform: !up mircea_popescu
undata: you want to really change the world, legalize acid
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23950 @ 0.00044649 = 10.6934 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23950 @ 0.00044649 = 10.6934 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: if legalizing stuff changed the world, it would be made illegal
jurov: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 206.56, Best ask: 206.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.26000, Last trade: 206.86, 24 hour volume: 47784.00195866, 24 hour low: 192.0, 24 hour high: 223.15, 24 hour vwap: 210.245475383
jurov: wow
mircea_popescu: if illegalizing things did anything i'd make mosquitoes illegal
mircea_popescu: i have half a mind to do it anyway.
asciilifeform: ;;google we begin bombing in five minutes
gribble: We begin bombing in five minutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_begin_bombing_in_five_minutes>; Ronald Reagan - We Begin Bombing In 5 Minutes - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgSSRE27GQ0>; Reagan Bombing Joke - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv13ZnkpWos>
assbot: Adam Guerbuez’s Big News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ap61Fr )
mircea_popescu: lul wut ?
TomServo: hadn't heard of dailyhashrate before, reads like bitcoin's onion
cazalla: mircea_popescu: if illegalizing things did anything i'd make mosquitoes illegal <<<mosquitoes in BA?
mircea_popescu: cazalla no, but i am not an egotist. i think of my fellow man
mircea_popescu: and especially woman.
asciilifeform suspects that most of the world's mosquitoes live not too far from him
cazalla: talk is cheap! make them illegal, be a doer like bill gates
mircea_popescu: TomServo welll... some guy i never heard of presented on some webpage i never saw before as important, turns out he's another gavin, doing parlour tricks atparties and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: cazalla words are cheaper than laws that don't work!
TomServo: I thought he was maybe North America's Dotcom knockoff.
asciilifeform: 'That night I listened while a colonel explained the war in terms of protein. We were a nation of high-protein, meat-eating hunters, while the other guy just ate rice and a few grungy fish heads. We were going to club him to death with our meat; what could you say except, “Colonel, you’re insane”? … Doomsday celebs, technomaniac projectionists; chemicals, gases, lasers, sonic-electric ballbreakers that were still on th
asciilifeform: e boards; and for back-up, deep in all their hearts, there were always the Nukes, they loved to remind you that we had some, “right here in-country.” Once I met a colonel who had a plan to shorten the war by dropping piranha into the paddies of the North. He was talking fish but his dreamy eyes were full of mega-death.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00044654 = 8.6629 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00044654 = 8.6629 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the us army would look like on the ground if they actually started eating the afghanistani.
mircea_popescu: "bring some dead isis to cook tonight"
asciilifeform: remains in question who will be the cook, and who - the meal
mircea_popescu: i dunno how inclined teh arabs would be to fight if losing means they're eaten.
asciilifeform: do they give a damn re: being eaten? now pigburial may be another matter.
assbot: Reagan tells Soviet jokes - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ap7uf9 )
assbot: Cannibalism in the Quran | Quran Explained ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ap7DiG )
mircea_popescu: it's a huge no-no. you can't go into afterlife anymore.
mircea_popescu: you, basically, BECOME sheep.
undata: better than turned into an islamic woman
mircea_popescu: no, not actually.
mircea_popescu: that's the female prayer, thank you allah for not having made me sheep (beast of field)
mircea_popescu: the one with "too important, i didn;t recognize him" had me rolling on the floor lol
assbot: Margaret Thatcher No No No - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ap9kN1 )
asciilifeform: !up mircea_popescu
joecool: i wish -assets would take on attempting to make gnupg2 less horrible, which is the preferred version of gnupg in here anyway?
mircea_popescu: i dont use gnupg2
asciilifeform: i do have 2 somewhere
asciilifeform: but what is the horrible part ?
joecool: 1.4 was decent for usability, 2 i am constantly fighting
mircea_popescu: so use 1.4
asciilifeform: fighting how and why ?
joecool: asciilifeform: it's just ugly ugly horrible software, unintuitive, i have to swap out pinentry implementation between environments
joecool: i can't do a static build
asciilifeform: now the code is virtually unreadable, and this is true for all versions. no argument.
cazalla: i use to cover the company A raises X amount of capital but have been skipping them as you could really just word replace the amount and company name from a previous article and be done with it. does anyone actually care about such things and wishes to see them?
mircea_popescu: you don't undertand, it's optimized!
asciilifeform: speaking of which, did artifexd follow mircea_popescu's prescription and use a hacked gpg for 'gossip' ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla not particularly. unless you either have exclusivity, a scoop or actual documents,
mircea_popescu: they must PAY To have such articles published. in that they're fraud.
joecool: asciilifeform: it's just constant fighting to do most anything with the software, it's laid out poorly, simple tasks like minting smartcards, i literally have to back up the config directory for it and copy to mint more cards
asciilifeform: smartcards ?!
joecool: yeah i know you hate them
joecool: if i needed to protect from a 3-letter agency i'd have bigger problems than the shortcomings of a smartcard
mircea_popescu: that's not how you build effectual deterrence. that's how you set yourself up to shrem.
mircea_popescu: nobody ever said "if i'm ever in a fire i'll have bigger problems than this tiny fire hydrant can solve"
ben_vulpes: good morning PinkPosixPXE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3978 @ 0.00044654 = 1.7763 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3978 @ 0.00044654 = 1.7763 BTC [+]
joecool: mircea_popescu: there are two major problems with this implementation that i see. both are problems the cardano solves, 1. the system knows it's a smartcard and malicious software could use it, and 2. weak entropy generation for signing
joecool: an adversary with large resources will likely be able to get around that through forced coercion before even needing to try to attack the implementation (which I still believe would be a nontrivial task unless the system had a rootkit installed that maliciously generated signatures, that i would see on the counter)
xanthyos: !up mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: joecool the 2nd's most concerning.
mircea_popescu: entropy could be more important for encryption than signing.
mircea_popescu: and inasmuch as you're a person rather than an organisation, "forced coercion" is really not very much use.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : today i find that prior to 1820 or so, hawaii was all-nude, and that the proper an' traditional hula dance is to be done without panties or other apparel.
joecool: mircea_popescu: i was unaware of the entropy issues on signing until after this was implemented, until then i had assumed it was only important to generate the keys themselves with sufficient entropy
joecool: but i will continue to read on this and see if i can come up with a better way to handle it
mircea_popescu: well, depending of what you actually need to sign, never putting your signed matter over the wire unencrypted can help a lot.
mircea_popescu: in that it drastically limits the pool of potential attackers and attackable material.
PinkPosixPXE: morning ben_vulpes .. sorry, I got pulled into a meeting hehe
PinkPosixPXE: didn't mean to be impolite
PinkPosixPXE: glad gribble is back
PinkPosixPXE: and assbot
MetatronOne: mircea_popescu> unrelatedly : today i find that prior to 1820 or so, hawaii was all-nude, and that the proper an' traditional hula dance is to be done without panties or other apparel. | woah. what a way to ruin it!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26654 @ 0.00045597 = 12.1534 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26654 @ 0.00045597 = 12.1534 BTC [+] {2}
teward: mircea_popescu: you should probably tag your NSFW as NSFW >.>
mircea_popescu: teward you are aware this place has a history and so on, right ? read it and all ?
teward: mircea_popescu: yes, just sayin for those of us who IRC while in class from the back of the room... ;)
teward has privacy screens on either way but still
teward is also *insanely* bored today in class
danielpbarron: if that wasn't safe for your work then you need to find new work
mircea_popescu: please don't #bitcoin-assets in class.
teward: mircea_popescu: please don't force me to sit through a 4 hour lecture on my own state's history without some distraction >.>
teward: :P
teward: (hot though)
mircea_popescu is exceptionally not an asshole
mircea_popescu: they say it about me tho!
mircea_popescu: the government!
gribble: Time since last block: 6 minutes and 29 seconds
ben_vulpes: -assets is highly async, PinkPosixPXE - didn't read any impoliteness
mircea_popescu: good logs promote that huh.
jurov: i don't know how i managed to survive 4 hour lectures on uni, had only nokia brick then
jurov: it was data capable, but plans were too expensive
mircea_popescu: i mostly hung out with the girls. and if the girls didn't show up i mostly harrangued the prof.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31686 @ 0.00044044 = 13.9558 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31686 @ 0.00044044 = 13.9558 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00043981 = 10.5554 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: High-Speed Video Reveals The Source Of That Incredible After-Rain Smell ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRbIUX )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00043981 = 10.5554 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <kakobrekla> https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK << totally worth reposting
assbot: Watch SpaceX's Vine "Close, but no cigar. This time." ... ( http://bit.ly/1KRdBRz )
TomServo: That must be the best use of vine to date.
ben_vulpes: i love how they have precisely 1 vine
mircea_popescu: speaking of ... wine.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16811 @ 0.00045262 = 7.609 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16811 @ 0.00045262 = 7.609 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: love the cameraphone in the back there
mircea_popescu: chicks face with the phone too.
ben_vulpes: p lulzy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00045561 = 8.7022 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00045561 = 8.7022 BTC [+]
assbot: It's Easy To Call Us A Tiny Minority When You Engage In Vote Manipulation | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1udziRn )
mircea_popescu: the redditards are kinda too easy to poke fun at
assbot: Billistixx comments on Come by,hangout and tip! NSFW ... ( http://bit.ly/1udAqEI )
asciilifeform: what is with reddit and the 'tipping' thing? is everyone 'roleplaying' a waiter, a bootblack ?
mircea_popescu: on reddit ? yes.
asciilifeform: what's the appeal ? i find it hard to picture any of them amassing any kind of serious coin this way
danielpbarron: they feel like they are doing something
asciilifeform: or is it a kind of chumpatronic acid trip, like lotteries
danielpbarron: like johnny appleseed or something
danielpbarron: johnny millibit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no im pretty sure he has it. "they feel like they're doing something". much like their education.
mircea_popescu: not learning anything, but hey, they've gone to college.
mircea_popescu: same here : not doing anything, but hey, they're "involved" with bitcoin.
asciilifeform: the part that's puzzling is - a classical cargo cult has 'the airplane flies', or an analogous prayed-for outcome
asciilifeform: what do the reddit folks want ?
mircea_popescu: "change the world"
mircea_popescu: "innovate" "revolutionize"
mircea_popescu: practically, everything turning to shit.
mircea_popescu: also, if they never hear a dissenting opinion ever again that'll be soon enough.
asciilifeform: the earlier crowed of 'early adopting' cultist weirdos made considerably more sense to me. they just wanted 'to get rich,' i.e., to quit their jobs
davout: they kind of think that some random guy that never heard about bitcoin will be thrilled to receive a fraction of a cent in magic internet money, redeem it, and start spreading adopshun
mircea_popescu: yes. as ideas spread on the internet, the derps they touch become increasingly nonsensical.
mircea_popescu: early computer program almost made sense, even to me.
davout: somehow they're too dumb to realize that their 'tips' are more insulting and spammy than anything...
mircea_popescu: hey, the average domestic animal regards its keeper as an animal of the same age and the same gender as it is.
mircea_popescu: so... what do you mean not everybody on the internet is a dumbass ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00046254 = 7.5857 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00046254 = 7.5857 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 221 @ 0.00639953 = 1.4143 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 470 @ 0.0064553 = 3.034 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 260 @ 0.00649999 = 1.69 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3235 @ 0.00045561 = 1.4739 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3235 @ 0.00045561 = 1.4739 BTC [-]
artifexd: <asciilifeform> speaking of which, did artifexd follow mircea_popescu's prescription and use a hacked gpg for 'gossip' ? << No. I'm using go's openpgp code. However, I'm structuring the code so that I can later add the option do the crypto via a shell out to gpg. Then you can use whatever version of gpg your heart desires.
asciilifeform: and shell-out ?!?!
asciilifeform: that's deadly slow
asciilifeform: per packet ?!?!
artifexd: The shell out will be slow. Yup.
asciilifeform will not be using this horror, will run his own client.
asciilifeform is rather sad to learn what he just learned.
davout: he just said it would be an option...
asciilifeform: davout: read again
artifexd: read what again? davout is correct.
davout: "later add the option do the crypto via a shell out to gpg"
asciilifeform: davout: 1) his gizmo is in 'go', a google-proprietary turdlang 2) he's using its built-in crypto routines 3) if you don't like this, have fun waiting 300-500msec/packet using the shell-callout
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^ knew this ?
artifexd: I'm not going to write in lisp.
asciilifeform: i wouldn't either
artifexd: He said "write it in whatever you want as long as it compiles on linux"
davout: is go proprietary?
asciilifeform: the original rfc also mentioned specifically use of gpg cryptoroutines
artifexd: Yeah. Hence the shell out.
davout: iirc it said 'steal some gpg code' can be wrong here tho
asciilifeform: 'go' is a turd that i will not have on my systems.
asciilifeform: along with 'java', 'c#', etc.
davout: rfc sez "Steal gpg code - any version prior to the Snowden defection"
artifexd: I could write it in C or C++ but cross compiling is an absolute nightmare that I choose not to put up with.
asciilifeform: cross-compiling ?
artifexd: Because I'm writing it.
asciilifeform: yes, but why cross?
asciilifeform: what are you developing on? a vax ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have no idea, it's an open spec.
artifexd: My daily dev machine is Windows.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2H031NX.txt )
artifexd: My alternate dev machine is OSX.
artifexd: I have linux servers and vm's that I use for testing.
mircea_popescu: go for windows ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the problem anyway, you weren't going to run his binaries ? no os compiler for it ?
asciilifeform: i don't run other folks' binaries.
artifexd: go compiles on the big os's. Windows/Linux/OSX/BSD
asciilifeform: and i fucking hate turdlangs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you be specific ?
mircea_popescu: i know about as much of go as i know about hawaii.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a google-proprietary language similar to 'd.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nominally open-source, but in the same sense as apple's 'darwin' kernel - that is, nobody who isn't paid, reads it
mircea_popescu: so c is a gnu proprietary language ? what's a proprietary language ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: massive megalith of vendor libs, that one is expected to use
mircea_popescu: so it has open compiler but not open libs ?
artifexd: All the libs are open
asciilifeform: it's all, theoretically, open
mircea_popescu: wouldn't one expect the libs also compile ?!
asciilifeform: but developed exclusively, afaik, for x86 and arm
mircea_popescu: what else is there ?!
asciilifeform: the free world.
mircea_popescu: ... i run x86 ? don't you ?
asciilifeform: i run virtually every arch i know of.
mircea_popescu: and right now ?
asciilifeform: but would like the option of getting off it. esp. for particular applications.
mircea_popescu: so what do you want to run it on ?
asciilifeform: as discussed a few days ago, i recently installed a mips64 router.
asciilifeform: would like, for example, to run on that.
mircea_popescu: mips gossipd ?
asciilifeform: incidentally everything that runs on it, is built on it.
mircea_popescu: that pretty much means c - only you realise ?
asciilifeform: it is in fact possible to write correct 'c', you know.
mircea_popescu: well you know it occurs to me it'd be a lot more productive if you go in early with a "hey, could it please be c ? i would like to run this on mips" discussion than a late paniucwhen guy picks whatever he happened to pick.
mircea_popescu: at least it's not ruby.
asciilifeform: i didn't commission the thing, lol
davout: mircea_popescu: what's so wrong with ruby anyway?
asciilifeform: was sorta trying to keep my dirty hands off it
mircea_popescu: apparently go is acutally used on mips ?
asciilifeform: it quite possibly can be made to run on bigengian mips
mircea_popescu: davout let's keep the drama one strand at a time
asciilifeform: it didn't even occur to me that anyone would write such a thing in anything other than c
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform openwrt apparently
davout: i was about to add 'specifically?' :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so other people like other languages, big whoop.
asciilifeform: it isn't simply an 'other language', it's a massive toolchain created and maintained by a usg satrap.
asciilifeform: and used scarcely anywhere else
asciilifeform: i know of no reason to put one lick of trust in its crypto libs, for example.
mircea_popescu: well, conversely, now they get to be reviewed.
asciilifeform: by whom ?
mircea_popescu: apparently first ever.
mircea_popescu: by you lol
mircea_popescu: you won't run it or read it ?
asciilifeform: i'll run own client. (will tweak it for compatibility with the rest of you, when i have a little time.) and invite anyone who wishes, to read.
mircea_popescu: so basically you want to write your own c variant ?
asciilifeform: i mostly have.
mircea_popescu: well so why do you want him to also write it in c ? go is a better choice neh ?
asciilifeform: better choice ?!
mircea_popescu: well yes. that way it gets implemented in two languages.
asciilifeform was simply floored with mindfuck that anyone would choose google's turdlang for a piece of critical infrastructure, and could not resist ringing the bell
mircea_popescu: but i still dunno wtf is wrong with it. so, it has open compiler. it has open libraries.
mircea_popescu: supposedly nobody ever read these
mircea_popescu: well... guess what ? nobody ever read fucking linux, either.
asciilifeform: it wasn't around in '89. won't build on a vax.
asciilifeform: basically, does not predate the age of corruption.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2121 @ 0.00069632 = 1.4769 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: listen, if you don't start fucking girls born after X at some point, you'll be stuck in wrinkle heaven.
asciilifeform: and tainted with known satanic minion's juice.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3850 @ 0.0006986 = 2.6896 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: anything specific re juice ?
mircea_popescu: no, that's vague lol.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1729 @ 0.00070141 = 1.2127 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: not that vague. google brass dine with the fuhrer regularly, etc. this is well-known.
mircea_popescu: dude you can't impeach people on the grounds that they ate with hitler.
asciilifeform: not merely ate.
asciilifeform: google is the i.g.farben of this particular hitler.
mircea_popescu: well ok, sure, but still. i dun see the problem, so b-a guy wants to play with go. his choice, his signature, why is this an issue.
asciilifeform: and fella uses a winblows box for daily life ?!?!
asciilifeform: someone still remains here in #b-a, of such a habit?
asciilifeform: i confess, never imagined this could be.
mircea_popescu: well it's basically like an older ubuntu.
mircea_popescu: trust people, ignore things eh ?
mircea_popescu: if i pick a barber i don't go by the straight razor brand.
asciilifeform: but suppose he lubricates the razor in his own liquid shit.
asciilifeform: will still 'trust the man, ignore the things' ?
mircea_popescu: can you point to this ?
mircea_popescu: and dun say "google" again lol.
asciilifeform: let's say, specifically the use of questionable crypto routines
mircea_popescu: if only great wautu blessed us with some unquestionable crypto routines.
mircea_popescu: anyway. guy can use whatever crypto routines he's comfortable with, on the general understanding that he's read them and is actually comfortable with them
mircea_popescu: as opposed to... well... it's what the build pulled in.
asciilifeform: i'll save the rest for when artifexd posts his apparatus.
asciilifeform: don't want to discourage people - but also can't see wtf is wrong with using same environment gpg was written and built in.
mircea_popescu: seems a reasonable approach tbh, but generally people should free to use whatever they wish to use.
artifexd: How could the crypto routines be compromised in a way that would matter? Weak key generation? gossipd doesn't generate keys. Weak rng during encryption? I pick the rng (and can offer an option for you to supply your own). Encrypting a message with an "extra" key so peet can read it? That should be easy to see in the code.
asciilifeform: doesn't generate keys?!
mircea_popescu: artifexd weak encryption altogether.
asciilifeform: where do the ephemeral keys come from
asciilifeform: or the blockcipher symmetrics?
mircea_popescu: artifexd not to be taken lightly this. a lot can be compromised in gossipd crypto.
artifexd: I'm talking about the identity keys.
asciilifeform: them - sure. but they are not the only keys.
mircea_popescu: even if you use rsa-only keys, you can rsa-encrypt a message so that it's easier to break but still decryptable by destination.
mircea_popescu: numerous attacks/approaches for this purpose.
asciilifeform: this is very easy to achieve.
artifexd: Can you do it?
artifexd: Can you explain to me how *I* could do it?
artifexd: Point me to education?
asciilifeform: artifexd: certainly. search for term of art 'kleptography.'
mircea_popescu is in awe at discussion suddenly turned productive.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform good time to be very speciffic.
mircea_popescu: Using Cryptography Against Cryptography. Adam Young and Moti Yung.
asciilifeform: artifexd: i recommend a particular monograph, 'malicious crypto' by a. l. young & moti m. young.
asciilifeform: lol mircea_popescu inb4
asciilifeform: artifexd: well-thumbed copy of this right here on my desk. beautiful book, if you skip all the parts that must have been thrown in to give it a sensational/saleable 'seekoority' flavour (vignette about h4xx0rz shuffling floppies around in ch.1, mostly)
asciilifeform: artifexd: the most basic 'kleptography' takes the form of slipping bits of key into variables which are normally random. but there are more subtle channels.
asciilifeform: (term of art 'covert channel')
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got a link to that hacking course thing that was crypto oriented ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can remember more specific ?
mircea_popescu: i been looking for it magically can't find it. the one that had the rsa break in the last fascicle
artifexd: Book purchased.
asciilifeform: !s pollard rho
assbot: 1 results for 'pollard rho' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pollard+rho
asciilifeform: damn, thought it might have been in that thread
mircea_popescu: nono it was a course, you were supposed to email your results
asciilifeform: i definitely remember that this existed.
assbot: The Matasano Crypto Challenges ... ( http://bit.ly/1E8npC3 )
asciilifeform: artifexd found it.
mircea_popescu: there we go!
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 15:50:28; artifexd: http://cryptopals.com/ <- some nice lessons teaching how crypto works, how to attack it, and how easy it is to screw it up
mircea_popescu: stupid fucking name. anyway, towards the end there's some good foundational stuff. perhaps not directly useful for the purpose at hand, but very good to get your head swiveled in the right position
mircea_popescu: re crypto vulnerability.
mircea_popescu: lol it was HIS link ?
mircea_popescu: ahjahaha
asciilifeform: bleichenbacher's oracle, in particular
artifexd: I will pause coding to read "Malicious Crypto" and finish the course. I'll report back when I'm done and made a decision re: golang's crypto libraries.
asciilifeform: ^ w4r3z
asciilifeform: http://repo.hackerzvoice.net/depot_madchat/vxdevl/avtech << many classic and otherwise interesting pieces
assbot: Index of /depot_madchat/vxdevl/avtech ... ( http://bit.ly/1E8oslC )
asciilifeform: http://repo.hackerzvoice.net/depot_madchat/vxdevl/interviews << interviews with old-school crapware artists, somewhat interesting zoology
assbot: Index of /depot_madchat/vxdevl/interviews ... ( http://bit.ly/1E8ozxA )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00044297 = 17.9846 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50187 @ 0.00044223 = 22.1942 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47000 @ 0.00043747 = 20.5611 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37413 @ 0.00043704 = 16.351 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ';Urko is a dog. Urko is one of my best friends. Urko is a fantastic dog becoz sometimes..... Urko SPEAKS! Urko is very timid and only speaks to me...and not always...urko only speaks when both,urko and me,we start to smoke that rare cigarretes that urko has. Then urko start to speak a lot of :) and we stay all night speaking,smoking and seeing films orplaying trivial pursuit,or coding,or doing a lot of things :)'
asciilifeform: next time contemplating the raving insanity of 'reddit' bitcoin users, etc. - read these.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34624 @ 0.00043262 = 14.979 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48500 @ 0.0004291 = 20.8114 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13876 @ 0.00042036 = 5.8329 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform often wonders what happened to those people.
mircea_popescu: sounds like that much acid.
asciilifeform: evidently not too much acid, because - they ran.
mircea_popescu: ballmer's constant, but for acid.
asciilifeform: where are these kids now.
asciilifeform: can't all be dead.
kakobrekla: anyway, the wot has been forked into assbot and is running now
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: congrats !
kakobrekla: that means we are no longer depended on gribble
kakobrekla: and some changes have been made.
asciilifeform: are these synchro-forks or fork-forks ?
kakobrekla: as ascii pointe out, session is bad so there is no more that.
kakobrekla: each auth worth command gets own otp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is to import gribble's wot but mark it as gribble's, and allow others to import assbot's wot.
kakobrekla: worthy*
mircea_popescu: i'll get on nano's case to see if he's willing to put it all into gribble.
kakobrekla: for example, i have upped myself via pm, yet;
kakobrekla: !rate mircea_popescu -10 scammer
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/1f7f6d235233d678
mircea_popescu: duuude...
kakobrekla: !verify assbot:kakobrekla.rate.mircea_popescu.-10:61751f23d45137825f4ecd78de4a6afb42d01c5d9c6b802b6ec6f4b135e47504
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to -10 with note: scammer
mircea_popescu: this is almost as if someone sat down and thought about it.
kakobrekla: !rate mircea_popescu 5 good fella
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d625cacf59990e9f
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.rate.mircea_popescu.5:1676039169b957f6a18439b6daeade5919887f01b82d832f7b01e7e97885216c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -10 to 5 with note: good fella
kakobrekla: !rated mircea_popescu
assbot: You rated user mircea_popescu on 16-Dec-2012, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: good fella.
kakobrekla: !gettrust mircea_popescu
assbot: Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 5, Level 2: 47 via 31 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/kakobrekla/mircea_popescu | http://w.b-a.link/user/mircea_popescu
kakobrekla: !gettrust assbot mircea_popescu
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 27 via 27 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/mircea_popescu | http://w.b-a.link/user/mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: fcking hell ?!
kakobrekla: there is also !unrate and !changekey
mircea_popescu: ok this is like splendid
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: how does changekey work ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla can it have another field, the user json ?
mircea_popescu: [source] =>
mircea_popescu: with possible values "Gribble" "Assbot" so far ?
kakobrekla: !changekey CB39A1B24F01ADE0A597552D70C68A9048079D7A
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9493f77dcc359a13
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.changekey.cb39a1b24f01ade0a597552d70c68a9048079d7a:f08dfbbdc1e3292ded6d3e8072857f50c284aa922832b4329354bd5cb54b45c7
assbot: Key 48079D7A / "test test <test@test>" successfully imported.
assbot: New key fingerprint for kakobrekla is: CB39A1B24F01ADE0A597552D70C68A9048079D7A
kakobrekla: !changekey 27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5fcd835b15264557
kakobrekla: !v assbot:kakobrekla.changekey.27c3ce9a20851312f086268c27af75321f2489e8:bfef481697fe5e3612c388f8d894f2d1d624e57cf99c1545f9a65b98ce076a62
assbot: No changes, key already exists.
kakobrekla: imm just hax this manually.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform satisfactory answer ?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu what do you mean 'source' ?
kakobrekla: what is the value of source
PeterL: I did it!
kakobrekla: ah forgot to mention, otps can be executed out of order, but they are valid only for 15 min
kakobrekla: and you dont have to be on chan to use it.
kakobrekla: also if we downrate someone to l2=0 you should be able to !down immediately now, although i havent tested it.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla as in, if the rating was given via here, or imported from gribble's db
kakobrekla: ah that
kakobrekla: i guess i can add tat.
mircea_popescu: would be useful. then we have gribble-assbot talk to each other via diffs
mircea_popescu: and both can display both.
kakobrekla: ah and another detail, if you noticed there is no place to specify your 'wot' nick
kakobrekla: which means you irc nick is your wot nick
kakobrekla: or shit wont fly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00042168 = 17.0359 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: !rated kakobrekla
assbot: You rated user kakobrekla on 03-Mar-2013, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: too much stuff to list. inquire within..
mircea_popescu: ah i'm so happy :D
kakobrekla: yeah your political strike was totally worth it.
PeterL: so the link is different every time?
kakobrekla: you can request 10 commands, take them all at once to airgap
kakobrekla: do the jizlle and bring them back
kakobrekla: well 10 = n
mircea_popescu: yeah the old way had the advantage of automation, but this has the more significant advantage of airgap
kakobrekla: just an example.
mircea_popescu: heh, too slow eh
kakobrekla: is it so hard to read off the link?
kakobrekla: i could do /otps/$nick and list active ones
kakobrekla: if it helps.
danielpbarron: maybe make the voice one always use the same url?
mircea_popescu: can't hurt. leave all these for a 2nd version down the road.
mircea_popescu: do as a batch
PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable
danielpbarron: does upping and downing others require auth?
kakobrekla: voice is sessioned
mircea_popescu: !down danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: works fine
kakobrekla: !up Adlai
kakobrekla: !down Adlai
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development.
cazalla: i have birthday guests in the next 30m so if BingoBoingo can otherwise i'll catch up on logs this evening and write up whatever it is that needs doing
mircea_popescu: o hey, happy bday.
danielpbarron: i especially like how changekey now requires auth
cazalla: mircea_popescu, not mine, my son's first birthday :)
mircea_popescu: gribble does too neh ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla even more yours then!
cazalla: not really, these 20 odd people are going to mess up my clean home :\
danielpbarron: if i'm session authed with gribble and someone hacks my irc, they can change my key
cazalla: anyway.. shower time and then to play host and patriarch, bbl
danielpbarron: i figured that was why you always logged out when not chatting
asciilifeform: the changekey thing leaves something to be desired.
asciilifeform: if i want to change keys, i should have to specifically sign a message to that effect.
asciilifeform: or is that how it already works, nm.
danielpbarron: that's how it now works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00043393 = 12.8877 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: does assbot log ratings changes anywhere?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70150 @ 0.00041356 = 29.0112 BTC [-] {6}
kakobrekla: whats next, a nuclear sub delivered 2 days before your order while paying you 500$?
kakobrekla: but could be done.
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f4c7a7785fd43f96
mircea_popescu: lol nucular soob!
mircea_popescu: !rated assbot
assbot: You rated user assbot on 12-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Nice ass & face bot..
mircea_popescu: !rate assbot 10 Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/08d27186c6ed6b39
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla totallyput a \n after otps
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.assbot.10:e33f37ce0c6349c2ff073951a8cd8907102c1ccbe4996cad4061ed1e6fc1d310
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for assbot from 1 to 10 with note: Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/46ae34a617b1519d
kakobrekla: !rate assbot 10 test
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/ec89a1090cd1b971
kakobrekla: here bitches. static link.
mircea_popescu: most recent ?
kakobrekla: o wait i have to encrypt those.
mircea_popescu: ah json. werx.
kakobrekla: ah links ?
kakobrekla: ill put links
mircea_popescu: yeh links prolly easier, oner per line
mircea_popescu: people can go curl http://w.b-a.link/otps/kakobrekla/ | curl | gpg
mircea_popescu: perhaps with some awk thrown in
kakobrekla: thar fixd
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development. << lemme catch up on what the news is and I'll hammer something out.
asciilifeform: (for crypto aficionados ^)
asciilifeform: vaguely credible evidence that usg puts to use ecc internally, but no suggestion of with what curves.
asciilifeform: alternatively, elaborate desinfo.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 00:48:07; mircea_popescu: [source] =>
kakobrekla: done ^^
kakobrekla: i dared to manually alter source of your rating here http://w.b-a.link/user/assbot
kakobrekla: others will be assbot sourced automatically from now on.
kakobrekla: btw this line kept going through my head while coding
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:03:56; asciilifeform: trust is simply an obsolete, pre-scientific word.
kakobrekla: but then i forgot to ask wtf am i to do.
kakobrekla: still open to changes if needs be.
BingoBoingo: Who all collborated on asswot? Did you do it all kakobrekla?
mircea_popescu: splendor
mircea_popescu: so ima send a btc to assbot's 1B6NP9eb4RKy9tRrXYCJnNcenZkrt5Q2gb
mircea_popescu: further contributions encouraged!
thestringpuller: is it open source?
mircea_popescu: trust is good. what, fucking is also an obsolete, pre-scientific word. slides right down nevertheless.
BingoBoingo: ^ And on that note I'm headed out for a bit.
kakobrekla: updated the welcome message (took out gribble part) and removed ddos warning , i think its gone again?
artifexd: Snowden worked at the NSA until June 2013. GPG 1.4.13 was committed on 2012-12-20. GPG 1.4.14 was committed on 2013-07-25.d
artifexd: mircea_popescu: 1.4.13 is acceptable and 1.4.14 is not, correct?
kakobrekla: hows that ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37657 @ 0.00043023 = 16.2012 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: snowden broke gpg somehow ?
artifexd: I believe the point is that Snowden didn't say gpg was compromised. However it could have been compromised since he left. Only mircea_popescu knows mircea_popescu's motivation for that spec though.
asciilifeform: there is always the option of actually studying the changelog.
asciilifeform: not a bad idea in any case
artifexd: That is what I'm looking at right now.
assbot: git.gnupg.org Git - gnupg.git/shortlog ... ( http://bit.ly/14LB1Xd )
kakobrekla: its not like changelog will say "hax was inserted here"
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41550 @ 0.00042089 = 17.488 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: artifexd it's not a strict thing, more like a general consideration. i doubt they managed to react fast enough to do much to 4.14
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point is that gpg was widely used for the snowden leaks. this indicates that a major player trusted it, and was right in so doing ; and suggests a major target for that reason alone.
kakobrekla: meh snowden leaks could just as well be disinfo
mircea_popescu: i know for a fact the usg did not know what was in the leaks until their press agents told em
mircea_popescu: anything could be anything. but my arbitrary sez no.
kakobrekla does the sexygingers dance
assbot: disinfo - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/14LFDN3 )
asciilifeform: seems like pretty obvious case thereof.
undata: asciilifeform: apparently this google device on my desk is impenetrable. who knew
undata: I'll stop worrying when it automatically opts me back into location history tracking
asciilifeform: if that slide deck is genuine, i've a bridge to sell.
mircea_popescu: zrtp bs.
asciilifeform: incidentally, z is for zimmerman.
asciilifeform: who, by all indications, was swallowed some time ago.
asciilifeform: in my diseased mind, the parsimonious hypothesis is that there is actually an nsa where that deck was genuinely crapped out by earnest monkeys who believe every word.
asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before)
asciilifeform would like to see the -other- slide deck.
asciilifeform: or perhaps -those- folks don't go in for 'powerpoint.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you find it interesting that, despite the legend of snowden having used gpg, we have no signatures from him pertaining to any of the material ?
asciilifeform: he could easily, if he wished, demonstrate what the genuine material was, and what has been doctored or made up wholesale.
asciilifeform: this is assuming that we have a reasonably certain copy of his pubkey pre-dating the events. which, iirc, we do.
thestringpuller: decentralized bitbet?
danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no
thestringpuller: but that's what oracles are for
asciilifeform: 'A key feature of Augur is tradeable Reputation. The total amount of Reputation is a fixed quantity, determined upon the launch of Augur. Holding Reputation entitles its owner to report on the outcomes of events, after the events occur. Reputation tokens are similar in other respects to Bitcoins: they are divisible to eight decimal places, they are accounted for by summing over unspent transaction outputs, and they can be sent
asciilifeform: between users.'
asciilifeform: srsly ?
thestringpuller: danielpbarron is in party. regenerate 5 hp per turn. :D
thestringpuller: caise ypi
thestringpuller: cause you're a crypto priest*
danielpbarron: decentralized bitbet like counterparty is decentralized mpex; just replaces the infrastructure (with something worse)
asciilifeform: i'm not averse to seeing actual solutions to 'decentralized xxxxx,' but they inevitably fall short re: 'democracy-proofing'
asciilifeform: who wants democracy pus in his meal ?
thestringpuller: !s democracy-proofing
assbot: 0 results for 'democracy-proofing' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=democracy-proofing
thestringpuller: care to elaborate sir asciilifeform ?
thestringpuller: or is it Dr. asciilifeform
asciilifeform: aka sybil, dos, etc. attacks
asciilifeform: !s sybil
assbot: 34 results for 'sybil' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sybil
asciilifeform: there we go.
thestringpuller: how does that prevent democracy? (a sybil attack)?
asciilifeform: the basic idea is that meat puppets are not in any fundamental way different from other types of puppet.
asciilifeform: and must be dealt with through same mechanisms.
asciilifeform: the 'tradeable reputation' thing sounds disastrous.
asciilifeform: perhaps i'm just thick.
thestringpuller: ah. i understand your viewpoint tho.
thestringpuller: it all depends on volume of puppet imo.
thestringpuller: or maybe everyone is a puppet of some sort. that's a little beyond me tho
asciilifeform: in point of fact, even our system of reputation (wot) is theoretically 'tradeable', in that somebody could - in principle - sell his privkey to satan
danielpbarron: of course it's disastrous; it's like giving the -otc folk power based on their total rating score (which they build up through trivial deals)
asciilifeform: but baking tradeability in as a matter of course - is another thing
asciilifeform: lunacy, imho
thestringpuller: isn't this classic dilemma of selling soul for some benefit/value
thestringpuller: you only have one to trade.
asciilifeform: which they build up through trivial deals << aha. this is actually an age-old plague on 'ebay' and the like.
thestringpuller: tis also irreverisble in nature.
asciilifeform: sc4mz0r cultivates rating with 100,000 'a+++++ gr34t d34lz'
asciilifeform: of fivebux each
asciilifeform: then proceeds to sell, e.g., nonexisting cars.
danielpbarron: the joke in otc is "Smooth TM"
thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap
thestringpuller: he sold shares in non existant broker bitcoin selling thing compan
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust aethero
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user aethero: Level 1: -1, Level 2: 0 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=aethero | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=aethero | Rated since: Wed May 2 19:24:52 2012
danielpbarron: what with all the hard fork drama, i'd say anything that can be kept centralized should probably remain centralized
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i think the hardfork drama is fundamentally seeing split, or cold war in bitcoin
thestringpuller: east vs. west.
thestringpuller: capitalist vs. socialist
asciilifeform: i have said before that an official usg altcoin is inevitable.
asciilifeform: gavincoin's probably it.
thestringpuller: yet we'll still pay taxes in bezzles?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gavincoin is not made to replace usd, but to bleed bitcoin
thestringpuller: ofc, but USG coin that is used to also do what? annoy us out of our money like some comcast nonsenese?
asciilifeform: you will have to ask the fellow who thought it up
asciilifeform: once he sits down on mircea_popescu's stake.
asciilifeform: perhaps he'll do a q&a
danielpbarron: "I am slowely being impaled on a sharped stake. Ask me anything."
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0VE53AD.txt )
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I do not see how anyone will contribute to usgavincoin when Buterin's waterfall explodes right after inception.
thestringpuller: Spend X money to build hoover dam and it explodes less than a year while runnign?
asciilifeform: seems clear that they'll pour the water on the other side.
asciilifeform: not on their own. (of the fork)
thestringpuller: But isn't this like someone trying to power a water wheel by simply running up stream with buckets of water they collect downstream?
asciilifeform: collected.
asciilifeform: or rather, robbed.
danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG?
thestringpuller: It's still non-trivial effort tho, to run long term
thestringpuller: and wasteful. like fast explosion vs slow ember
thestringpuller: at least in my mind
asciilifeform: i'm not seeing any serious evidence of 'long-term' thinking on usg's part.
thestringpuller: i can only imagine poor peon running up stream trying to keep water wheel moving
asciilifeform: i can easily picture an 'atomic war' where every btc which usg has at some point begged, borrowed, stole, or can prevail upon a vassal to give up control of - will be placed on market in a 'last hurrah'
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: re: mass adoption << I always felt people wanted mass adoption so price raises.
thestringpuller: Which is perverted thinking at best.
thestringpuller: starving marvin in kenya buys a bitcoin with his 50000 kenyan shillings he saved up over the course of 5 years...
danielpbarron: i don't think they are so rational; i suspect it has more to do with "going viral" like a clever youtube video, and having been in on it before it was trendy
danielpbarron: although 2014 might have put an end to that
thestringpuller: i never understood when going viral became the equivalent of becoming valuable...
asciilifeform: from the standpoint of vermin - yes, valuable
asciilifeform: all vermin envy the virus.
thestringpuller: black plague for all?
thestringpuller: but in all srsns, i thought the "popularity contest" died out by the end of high school
thestringpuller: now it seems the popularity contest is "the thing"
thestringpuller: 22:13 <+asciilifeform> i have said before that an official usg altcoin is
thestringpuller: ^- my bad. copy paste is bad with this one
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before) << like 5 or 7 times.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no << easier to "invent" stuff than understand stuff. just like it's easier to write new code than understand coding.
mircea_popescu: "whenever misreporting an event is worth more to your stake than it costs to buy back the lost reputation, you misreport the event. decentralized selective scamming ftw!"
mircea_popescu: "others will not readily understand how our implementation of 3 card monte is an implementation of 3 card monte, giving us an exploitable knowledge asymmetry - which makes this exactly an altcoin, which is why it's sensible to pretend we're like bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap << not a very good example. he had amassed trust over time, and likely at a higher cost than what he made out of it. the controlling factor there was "insane guy stopped taking his pills one day."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00041938 = 2.5582 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i couldn't find good example on top of head. but was jist of it received?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: gavincoin's probably it. << no. in typical fashion they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official.
mircea_popescu: it really gets them the worst of both worlds, but hey, it's what committees get. no actual men there to take charge.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG? << it could become a new brand of tide.
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin is now a detergent. finally a commodity !!!"
asciilifeform: they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official << with pretense every bit as thin as with 'tor'.
mircea_popescu: hence worst of both worlds.
xiando: I would prefer if they don't endorse that or anything and leave it alone.
mircea_popescu: nothing gets left alone.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00041938 = 20.0673 BTC [-]
xiando: I know, but I don't have to like it. :)
mircea_popescu: hence the "leave britny alone" meme.
assbot: LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9dpcq )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58803 @ 0.00042896 = 25.2241 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so there's a small statue in buenos aires with a san martin quote i absolutely love.
mircea_popescu: "De lo que mis granaderos son capaces, solo lo sé yo. Quien los iguale habrá. Quien los exceda - no."
mircea_popescu: "what my grenadiers are capable of, only I know. their equals might be found. their superiors - no."
assbot: 'Extreme Makeover' home in Atlanta in foreclosure | www.accessatlanta.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyqfz6 )
mircea_popescu: !up metsuno
mircea_popescu: ahh assbot, so nice to be back.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26924 @ 0.00045486 = 12.2467 BTC [+] {2}
hanbot: hooray for uberassbot
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna do a 30 bux cc payment for me ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ?
danielpbarron: cc not paypal?
danielpbarron: ya i guess
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45650 @ 0.00046921 = 21.4194 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: hory shit i had to pay half a tent of a bitcent in tx fees. HODL EVERYTHANG!!! MUST INCREASE BLOXSIZE PLOX!
mircea_popescu: !up decimation
decimation: I find the 'go' rant amusing. Would asciilifeform similarly object to python? I believe it can run on mips
mircea_popescu: you hate go too ?
decimation: I wouldn't call it 'hate' as much as 'utterly uninterested'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00044949 = 10.3832 BTC [-]
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