Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-27 | 2014-12-29 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00066819 = 35.9152 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29279 @ 0.00067355 = 19.7209 BTC [+] {4}
cazalla: nuva plane going missing, air asia this time, fkn putin wtf bro
ben_vulpes: planes are safe man
ben_vulpes: airborne lusitania in 2015?
cazalla: fuck that, rather take a boat
cazalla: not too fussed on flying myself, last time coming in to sydney from perth, was in for some chop, 5 by 5
cazalla: missus is already trying to organise some disney land belly of beast bullshit a few years time to go to america, fuck thaaat
ben_vulpes: resist, cazalla!
cazalla: well 1) they wouldn't let me in anyway, persona no grata 2) fucked if i would let her take my son into that viper pit without me
cazalla: all this in the name of disney 'everything is made in china' world
ben_vulpes: you're just letting her carry on with the disney fandom?
ben_vulpes: "but they set such bad role models for young girls!"
ben_vulpes: "and just look at gaston! you know the guy's a date rapist."
ben_vulpes: etc etc
cazalla: bah, it was her friend's idea and for 2018-2019 once they are older
cazalla: surely bitcoin is more established by then that i don't have to backhand her on the idea
cazalla: all this drama is on account of one of her friends currently en route to ussa and her crying that she has a kid, can't do shit atm
ben_vulpes: if you don't say anything now she's going to take it as tacit agreement.
cazalla: stop urging me to beat her ben_vulpes
cazalla: that shit gets you arrested and your mug shot in the media here, parade around as hitler himself, god forbid you beat your wife
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.0006653 = 7.9836 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: a raised eyebrow should be enough for that disneyland nonsense
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56640 @ 0.00066127 = 37.4543 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: beatings are for babes who buy into bdsm
cazalla: not really a beating then eh
cazalla: more like.. being playful
ben_vulpes: ask his popescuity about it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.0006757 = 22.5684 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: i'm sure there are serious beatings and playful beatings
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1481 @ 0.001193 = 1.7668 BTC [+]
cazalla: nah, sounds a bit gay to ask another man about his proclivities
cazalla: anyway, missus will learn soon enough that the opportunity to go america, live the quiet life is long gone
ben_vulpes blinks
cazalla: the fuck do i know, had another bottle of sambuca this arvo
cazalla: no news so what else can i do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00067027 = 3.9546 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20001 @ 0.00005488 = 1.0977 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17320 @ 0.00067027 = 11.6091 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5735 @ 0.00066059 = 3.7885 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: hi
Vexual: qntra got any writings on bitpay?
BingoBoingo: Vexual: We have one one the game they bought. Turns out it was very watchable. http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-bowl-recap-nc-state-wins-34-27/
assbot: Bitcoin Bowl Recap: NC State Wins (34-27) | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Exqcsy )
Vexual: cute
Vexual: Makes me wonder if there was anything worth reading un the times of cypress when neo ran their ads
Vexual: I accidentally encountered the cunts whilst blazingly drunk over xmas
cazalla: how was ya xmas Vexual
Vexual: pretty good, how was yours?
Vexual: my gracious host seemingly ran out of booze and patience around the same time
cazalla: was ok, nice lunch, home and booze, zzz
cazalla: much like i need to go zzz now, polished off a bottle of sambuca again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20895 @ 0.00066601 = 13.9163 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up HeySteve
BingoBoingo: HeySteve: Long time no see
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
assbot: The Linux Graphics Stack | Clean Rinse ... ( http://bit.ly/147r0o5 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00068133 = 32.9764 BTC [+] {4}
HeySteve: hi there, BingoBoingo
HeySteve: how are things?
BingoBoingo: Not too bad, what about with you?
HeySteve: I'm well thanks
HeySteve: Qntra seems to be taking off nicely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15866 @ 0.00068884 = 10.9291 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Yeah. It's a grind, but I'm liking it.
HeySteve: cool. was thinking of contributing when I get some more time
BingoBoingo: HeySteve: You are entirely welcome to.
BingoBoingo: !up Guest70704
HeySteve: great, once I wrap up some projects I'd like to get into covering Bitcoin news again
BingoBoingo: Sweet.
BingoBoingo: Having more people contribute regulaly would be a huge help
assbot: Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1AcjR1C )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84134 @ 0.00069449 = 58.4302 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1944 @ 0.00070297 = 1.3666 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: !up b00lcrap1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8823 @ 0.00069056 = 6.0928 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0006777 = 4.6761 BTC [-]
adlai reads http://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/feds/2014/files/2014104pap.pdf in more detail, after skimming it and seeing all the pretty charts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00068154 = 19.8328 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71200 @ 0.00066857 = 47.6022 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00066926 = 13.6194 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3449 @ 0.001186 = 4.0905 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2889 @ 0.00119198 = 3.4436 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3000 @ 0.00119299 = 3.579 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 968 @ 0.001193 = 1.1548 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1065 @ 0.00118236 = 1.2592 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27155 @ 0.00066756 = 18.1276 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9445 @ 0.00065947 = 6.2287 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39240 @ 0.00068794 = 26.9948 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: cazalla wru?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.00064632 = 34.5781 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 37 @ 0.1251329 = 4.6299 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Hot Buttons ... ( http://bit.ly/1AcvkhG )
assbot: TSA 2014 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Acvl57 )
thestringpuller: is it sunday already?
ben_vulpes: anything interesting in that, adlai?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9857 @ 0.00067186 = 6.6225 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36966 @ 0.00064992 = 24.0249 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22177 @ 0.00064992 = 14.4133 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30313 @ 0.00064652 = 19.598 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11787 @ 0.00063874 = 7.5288 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yeah already Sunday
cazalla: thestringpuller, what's up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89100 @ 0.00063469 = 56.5509 BTC [-] {4}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before Feb 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1080/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 18(Y):82(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.83238982 BTC. Current weight: 49,952.
ben_vulpes: i'm listening to lady v talk her mother into buying things with a credit card online.
ben_vulpes: mom-in-law totally gets it "how does it make any sense to give the magic numbers that grant access to my money to other people?"
ben_vulpes: baby doll: "well you see you can call your cc provider up and they'll reverse the transaction for you!"
adlai: ben_vulpes: "We argue that the vigorous growth in bitcoin value in the past 18–24 months has been accompanied by almost unchanged daily variance of the exchange rate once the variance
adlai: calculations account for the changing exchange rate level. this observation merits further analysis. For example, such stable exchange rate variance could in principle be the result of activities by parties interested in the stability and trustworthiness of the system"
adlai: ie, there's not just a growth in userbase/demand, there's also a growth in financial actors profiting from arbitrage, market making, etc
adlai: ie, they're onto me!
adlai: shit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4800 @ 0.00117777 = 5.6533 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: however - i'd argue that there's plenty room for more "smart" money to enter this business of bitcoin-stabilization, assuming that there's plenty more latent demand, just beginning to wake up
adlai discussed this paper with the dad over the dinner. the dad suggested that demand could increase independently of increases in the userbase, which is correct. clever dad!
decimation: adlai: how does one arbitrage between exchanges when it takes days to settle between them?
adlai: gradually.
adlai: a more precise answer might be "statistically"
decimation: I guess you don't need to 'physically' settle a transaction to close your position
decimation: if you are in the us, don't you owe ordinary income tax on every gain you make?
adlai: ianafa
adlai: ianius
adlai also doesn't
decimation: heh well bully for you I guess
decimation: adlai: have you used the 'netagio' exchange?
adlai: !s netagio
assbot: 7 results for 'netagio' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=netagio
decimation: I've mentioned it a couple of times here. I'm interested because it's somehow owned/related to the goldmoney guy
adlai: finally, an exchange that likes liquidity! https://www.netagio.com/faq#article-35870720
assbot: What Is Bitcoin? | Where Can I Buy Bitcoin? | FAQs | Netagio ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZOiZx )
adlai: no assbot, that tag is titled "What is a maker-taker model?"
decimation: yeah I thought you might find that interesting
decimation: unfortunately it's all in GBP instead of USD
decimation: so one would have to do another transaction if one's fiat is USD
adlai: "The more information you give us about yourself, the more you will be able to do, and the more you verify yourself with us, the lower your transaction limits will be." I'm liking it a little less now.
decimation: yeah they are all about kyc/aml
decimation: the way I see it, it's going to be pretty hard to avoid kyc/aml if you want to deal in fiat
decimation: take the king's shekels/take the king's shackles
adlai: wtf. are they lurking here? all I did was register an account, and I already get flagged as a "Potentially Dangerous Request"
decimation: no idea. it would be amusing if they did
kakobrekla: adlai the terrorist.
thestringpuller: adlai: finally, an exchange that likes liquidity! << yet they don't post volume?
adlai: it's also worryingly difficult to find daily/monthly volume... shouldn't this number be prominently displayed on any exchange's landing page?
adlai: YES EXACTLY lol
decimation: adlai: did you connect to it via tor?
adlai: no
decimation: ah they now offer bitcoin/eur bitcoin/usd books
adlai: with a $20 spread
decimation: a year ago they advertise direct exchange to gold
decimation: but I think goldmoney shut down their 'user-to-user' gold exchange
decimation: so they stopped that offering.
adlai: be as paranoid as you like about KYC/AML, but at least offer dummy API access for developers
adlai: that way when a non-terrorist comes along, they can use terrorist-provided software, and all will be right in the jungle
decimation: ;;google site:netagio.com volume
gribble: No matches found.
decimation: surely one can connect to the order book api and determine the number of bids/asks
decimation: adlai: are there any introductory texts for creating trading algorithms?
adlai: not that i'm aware of; although people have been running trading algorithms in their head for hundreds of years, so really any text on trading is a text on trading algorithms.
decimation: yeah good point
decimation: I suppose it all boils down to arbitrage, either in time or space
assbot: Wealth: The Toxic Byproduct | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZRrbx )
adlai: this article is more thought-provoking than most drugs out there
adlai: the relevant parts are II-IV, maybe V and VI too; tl;dr: market making is time-shifted arbitrage & money is fungible gratitude
decimation: eh, I'm not sure I buy the moral implications of trade thing
decimation: If there anything immoral happening w.r.t. money, it's the free printing of it to benefit the few
decimation: it's an easy scheme to thieve from common folks
adlai: that article doesn't say much of anything about money printing
decimation: right, but it says an awful lot about the morality of trading money for things
adlai: uh: "Instead, the point is that earning money is, in general, something to celebrate, not feel guilty about."
decimation: right, so what about gaining unearned money?
adlai: my main takeaway from that article is that moral judgements have to be made in the context of the entire "game" where a trade took place, rather than in the context of the trade alone
adlai: gaining unearned money by printing? this devalues the already-printed notes, so you have to ask who are the noteholders getting fucked by your press
decimation: exactly
adlai: this is probably quite the echo chamber for complaints about money printing :)
adlai: i mean, it's right there in the name of the channel... TWICE
decimation: well, that's a fair point.
decimation: on the other hand, 99.999% of the world doesn't see it as a problem at all, and a good portion of them also see it as a government's duty
adlai: 99% of this channel doesn't see my roommate's atrocious dishwashing habits, or lack thereof, as a problem - because they're not aware of them.
decimation: adlai: imagine what would be required to start 'raising awareness' of the morality of printing money
decimation: one must immediately become the enemy of every fiat-supported institution that exists
adlai: fortunately, the scope of interactions with the typical modern fiat institution isn't limited to "friend or enemy"
adlai: there's a palestinian MK who believes that israel should be a people's democracy, rather than a jewish democracy. is he running the risk of not getting reelected? yes. will he get executed by government order? probably not.
decimation: true, the continued existence of bitcoin demonstrates that
adlai: "fiat" also is older than "fiat currency"
adlai: and will happily survive once fiat currency is long dead and forgotten, because might makes right, however sick and twisted that may be.
decimation: which is why we live in the age of usd in the first place, the 'allies' in wwii still dominate the world to some degree
decimation: although it seems that degree decreases every year
adlai: bitcoin being completely fucking useless actually makes it an excellent currency, in this sense - the only thing you can do with it is give it to another "person", optionally in return for something else.
adlai: so holding bitcoin isn't depriving anybody else of anything, except for bitcoin
adlai: for great lulz, read up on the venus project. this is what some people counter at me when they hear my excitement about bitcoin
adlai: "money is bad, we need a resource-based economy" actually, that would be terrible. resources need metadata, enter money.
assbot: FAQ - The Venus Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1HTIu3A )
decimation: eh, I guess I don't get the immediate moral assignments of money
decimation: money just is
adlai: it's metadata!
kakobrekla: the link i passed here earlier also touches this.
adlai: or fungible gratitude
adlai brb patenting that
decimation: lol your link is lulzy
decimation: forward soviet!
adlai: kakobrekla: the audio thingy?
decimation: adlai: there's some degree of that, but money also acts as an asset. In moldbug's terms, it's the 'bubble that never pops'
adlai: i like to put it more bluntly, money is "the neverending ponzi game"
decimation: yeah I like that better
adlai: :D
decimation: something must be money, and that something is worth more than 'it ought to be'
kakobrekla: its not neverending prolly
decimation: moldbug's theory is that this is derived from game theory, in the sense that every actor wants to pick the best savings medium, which is the thing that everyone else is planning to save in
kakobrekla: most actors are stupid though.
adlai: assuming that you're saving something in the hope of trading it for useful stuff eventually
adlai: if you know what's useful, and you know how to keep it fresh, you could just save that.
decimation: adlai: yes. that constraint rules out many savings media obviously
decimation: moldbug's analogy if I recall is a fisherman saving fish
kakobrekla: relevant
assbot: One Year In Hell…Surviving a Full SHTF Collapse in Bosnia | SilverDoctors.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsITul )
decimation: kakobrekla: I've read that before, not sure if it is legitimate
decimation: although it does seem to be reasonable
adlai: kakobrekla: what is this thing? (the audio)
kakobrekla: decimation pretty much on spot.
kakobrekla: adlai its an audio collage
adlai: damnit he's gonna beat me to the patent office
adlai runs faster
decimation: his point about hygiene items is a good one. Having a large store of ethanol seems like a good idea - can be used as a disinfectant, can be drank, can be used to de-grease engines :)
adlai imagines that the situation in gaza [city] is not too far off, modulus one large well-established gang (hamas)
decimation: adlai: hamas seems to blur the lines between 'gang' and 'government'
adlai: there's an anarchist joke in there somewhere but i'll leave it to the reader to fill in
adlai: and yes, hamas is probably a better government than the governments of, say, haiti or somalia
adlai: although "hamas" refers to both a government and a loosely-knit military conglomerate, just like "usg" or "nato"
ben_vulpes: decimation: simple things are beautifully powerful.
ben_vulpes: ethanol, oil, lisp...
adlai: (rockets are never fired by _hamas_ itself, and in fact firings are often denounced, even by the military arm; yet somehow the splinter groups keep operating despite the tight grip hamas has on the strip...)
decimation: yes, the 'tight grip'
adlai: then again, take everything i say with a dab of humus. i'm actually a lot less updated on local events than most people here, because it's mostly just fucking depressing.
decimation: I imagine most folks who live in/near israel have a pretty grim fatalism
adlai: kakobrekla: 28:45 !!!!!!
adlai: middle east demographics are quite the shitshow. malthus's ghost is laughing his ass off by now.
decimation: kakobrekla: if your bosnia link is true, it strikes me that the most important thing to have in a 'shtf' situation is alot of people on 'your side': family, friends, etc
decimation: adlai: what I find amusing is all the 'turd world' workers that the arabs import to do their dirty work
adlai: you mean in the emirates?
kakobrekla: decimation bullets & family (to use the bullets)
adlai: in the parts of the middle east that i feel qualified to complain about, the arabs aren't sitting on enough oil to import workers; although israel is making the most from massive refugee flows from darfur, eritrea, etc
adlai: as in, every.single.eatery has an "eggplant" doing the dishes
adlai: and however little they get paid, i'm pretty sure none of it is declared
decimation: I thought israel is harsh on illegal immigrants
decimation: adlai: I guess emirates, saudi arabia, etc
adlai: israel the government, yes. but israel the restauranteur loves them.
decimation: lol same in the us
adlai: makes sense
decimation: mexicans actually do work pretty hard, I don't mind them so much
adlai: oh, dinner with the dad also yielded some lulzy news from the other side of finance: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11269739/UK-government-to-pay-back-all-World-War-One-debt.html
assbot: UK government to 'pay back' all World War One debt - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsKfVW )
decimation: in my opinion the main issue is the welfare that will be extended to their lazy 2nd/3rd generation kids
adlai: eh, those kids are raised by hardworking parents. i'd be more worried about the laziness of kids raised by parents on welfare today.
decimation: well, good point
decimation: of course, the welfare state also requires a source of infinte fiat
decimation: it's lulzy that anyone still owns that wwi debt
ben_vulpes: i'd like to know who it is...
adlai wonders how many decades/centuries it'll take for speciation to start between "Homo operandus" and "Homo ignavus"
assbot: The Economics of Social Status | Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsKCQe )
adlai: Huxley's "reservations" are actually a fairly moral solution for a welfare-free technocracy: exile people who aren't contributing to the society, but don't shit in their reservoirs either.
assbot: Essay on Reservation in Brave New World ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsLc0g )
ben_vulpes: i've always envisioned NYC style "projects", but with minimal food/water/electricity/internet piped in to keep the denizens complacent.
adlai: hm this is actually a terrible essay, nvm.
adlai: so, like a shit zoo?
ben_vulpes: zoo implies people want to go there.
adlai: well, zoogoers don't usually want to live in the cages...
adlai: something between safari/zoo/reservation
ben_vulpes: more like a roach motel.
decimation: something like 'minimal welfare' is a bare hut with beans to eat
decimation: but at the same time, don't tie the hands of folks who can 'make it out' of the reservation
decimation: send them to australia or something
adlai: fwiw, assuming that the fiat parasite sticks around in some form or other, i'd rather have it operate a single UBI program than dozens of badly-coordinated welfare axes
decimation: yeah that's an obvious improvement
decimation: probably won't change unless something forces the government's hand
adlai: like what?
decimation: well, in the case of the us, a sudden collapse in usd buying power
decimation: which will only happen if overseas actors decide to sell usd simultaneously
adlai: would that force towards more effective welfare programs, or just more of the same shit?
decimation: eh, it would cause a collapse of some kind, which would change some stuff, some of which might be these programs
decimation: of course, the urge to 'print their way out' might grow even larger
decimation: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141224/06321429517/sony-hack-reveals-that-mpaas-big-80-million-settlement-with-hotfile-was-lie.shtml << lolz "TorrentFreak has been combing through the emails and found that the Hotfile settlement was really just for $4 million, and the $80 million was just a bogus number agreed to for the sake of a press release that the MPAA could use to intimidate others."
assbot: Sony Hack Reveals That MPAA's Big '$80 Million' Settlement With Hotfile Was A Lie | Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/13DwyWa )
assbot: Logged on 02-11-2014 21:48:39; asciilifeform: claim is not a fact << when talking about a scam, the claim is the fact (that is, the fact of the scam being set up as such or other)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00063102 = 15.2076 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 22-12-2014 15:17:18; mircea_popescu: all you weirdos fucking with your sleep i swear...
assbot: Punch card · adlai/scalpl · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1tsHbHS )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00118 = 1.18 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: that punch card isnt very useful
adlai: it's probably some gnarly shit in fortran
danielpbarron: !up Overand
xanthyos: hi Overand
Overand: 'allo. Registered my nick with my key. Woo
danielpbarron: ;;ident Overand
gribble: Nick 'Overand', with hostmask 'Overand!~overand@unaffiliated/overand', is identified as user 'Overand', with GPG key id 80053296F8159175, key fingerprint ADB3CD2C1AA14FA29B53677980053296F8159175, and bitcoin address None
danielpbarron: ;;rate Overand 2 known since 2003
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user Overand has been recorded.
danielpbarron: congratulations on becoming someone who matters!
Overand: Heh. If this is what you consider the threshold I must to clear to "matter," and I didn't "matter" before, then my worldview continues to be wildly different from yours.
xanthyos: ;;rate Overand 2 known since hebrew school temple beth shalom as far back as 9600 baud modems were in vogue
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user Overand has been recorded.
kakobrekla: hi, so who are you Overand ?
Overand: I'm someone who knews (or knew) xanthyos and danielpbarron in meatspace.
danielpbarron: i met xanthyos through Overand; he's sorta hackerish or something
Overand: ...knews? Knews?
xanthyos: keows
Overand laughs.
Overand: Anyway, yeah. I'm a tech nerd, abstract musician, primitive skills student, general queerdo.
danielpbarron: he already had a gpg key
Overand: danielpbarron loves it.
Overand: Yeah, I wonder if there's a timestamp on when it wa submitted to the keyserver
Overand: well, 2009 anyway
Overand: That's funny, I would have guessed earlier than that, but I suspect the keyserver doesn't lie.
kakobrekla: primitive skills student?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45000 @ 0.00065918 = 29.6631 BTC [+] {2}
Overand: kakobrekla: Yeah. You know, fire with sticks, shelter in the woods, that sort of thing.
kakobrekla: there is a school for that?
Overand: The stuff I'd have known by the time I was 4 or 5 years old if I'd been born right here ~600 years ago
Overand: There are a number of schools for that, but I meant it in the general sense.
xanthyos: oh Overand you'll fit in here just fine
Overand: When I'm giving an overview, I like to couple that with the tech stuff.
Overand: You know, the whole "running fiber optic cable between mud huts after [insert emergency/collapse/rapture/disease/singularity]" thing.
kakobrekla: for that you need shortwave, not optics.
Overand is US General licensed as well.
Overand: Shortwave's fine, but it's subject to a ton of ionospheric stuff.
Overand: It certainly not 'reliable,' and it's not a great way to get anything of any reasonable bandwidth anywhere
Overand: I'd stick to VHF/UHF/etc if you're talking about medium-throw distance
xanthyos: Overand: did you get your general before or after they dropped the 18 wpm morse code requirement
Overand: after.
xanthyos: noob.
Overand: Yep.
xanthyos is n1ttz
Overand: And yet I'm pretty sure I've done more on the air than you have.
Overand: That's a great callsign, though.
Overand: Did it expire?
xanthyos: i paid the 8 dollars to not use it for another decade.
xanthyos: now i'm getting spammed from arrl
Overand: mail mail or e-mail mail?
Overand: They're a nonprofit with decent people there, if you want them to stop, just drop them an e-mail.
Overand: support@arrl.org
xanthyos: i'd rather let them waste their money
danielpbarron: !up Overand
xanthyos: !up Overand
xanthyos: <dpb> copy cat
xanthyos: ^ and paste cat
decimation: Overand: shortwave is plenty reliable, depending on your expectations
Overand: decimation: Certainly.
Overand: It's just not a great candidate for replacing the entire internet
Overand: nor for ~7 billion people to communicate with each other.
Overand: decimation: Also, I'm a ham radio operator, I've had plenty of conversations via shortwave
Overand: usually 20 meters and up, a little 40,
Overand: i don't think i've worked 80 down
decimation: I'm an extra too
Overand: erm... maybe some SSB on 80, but that was same-continent
Overand: oo, fancy
Overand: I'm only general.
Overand: Anyway, point being I'm not a total idiot when it comes to this.
Overand: Though likely not nearly as experienced as you
decimation: Overand: as for 'replacing the internet', I suppose it depends on what those 7 billion people have to say
decimation: at any rate, it's been discussed as a possible means to distribute the bitcoin blockchain and/or transactions
Overand: decimation: So I've heard.
Overand: What's the current data rate like?
Overand: (on average)
decimation: I think it would be possible to fit the blockchain into a 2400 bps channel
decimation: !up Overand
Overand: really?
decimation: there's only one block that clears every 10 minutes right?
decimation: the block contains a list of transactions, up to the max block size, plus the hash, plus some other stuff
Overand: per bitcoin.it wiki, transactions are about 500bytes, running at 7tps, so that';s ~3500 bytes/sec or (humorously) 28,000 bits per second
decimation: yeah, it depends how many transactions per block
Overand: DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) varies between 4.5khz and 100khz of spectrum
decimation: I guess the max block size is 1 MB
decimation: most shortwave broadcasters limit their DRM to 14 kHz
decimation: but they could sustain the kind of bitrates required
Overand: it depends on the spectrum you're willing to use
Overand: satellites are a better candidate for this
Overand: think about XM/sirius
Overand: shortwave could work.
Overand: but it's suboptimal. you ever tried to receive DRM reliably?
decimation: yes, it works quite reliably
Overand: meh
decimation: but you need a bigass transmitter on one end
Overand: maybe for you
Overand: and yeah. i've never gotten a DRM broadcast reliably here in the US, but, who knows
Overand: haven't tried since i improveed my antenna situation
Overand: that was with like, 40 feet of antenna up a tree
decimation: there used to be a transmitter in nova scotia that came in well
Overand: (a lot more antenna than your coke machine is likely to have)
decimation: there's one in brazil that is reliable too
decimation: at any rate, I'm not sure that shortwave is really suited for blockchain broadcast unless one had a really big transmitter (and more importantly - government-allocated bandwidth)
decimation: I think what shortwave would be better for would be a transaction network
decimation: and secure off-internet comms
decimation: I'm thinking more of a mesh network than a point-to-point
decimation: with IP relay
Overand: decimation: DRM's highest bitrate seems to be about 27 kilobits
Overand: though per wikipedia, they can shoehorn 700 kilobits worth of bandwidth into a 100khz channel
decimation: yeah and it would require many kilowatts to sustain a large coverage area. and since the ionosphere varies over the course of a day, one ideally would need multiple transmitters with multiple frequencies
decimation: 100 khz channel ain't gonna happen on HF
decimation: 16 kHz is probably the max that you will get allocated politically
Overand: so standard AM is what, 20khz or so
decimation: AM on shortwave is ~12 kHz
Overand: so that 27 kilobit data rate is probably - yeah - in that 12khz am
Overand: man, tempting to go ask on the FreeDV / Codec2 mailing list
decimation: one can have arbitrary many kilobits in a kilohertz as constrained by SNR given in Shannon's law
Overand: though they're mostly working with relatively tiny bandwidth digital modulation
Overand: Sticking a digital voice channel into 900hz - 1.6khz or so
decimation: yeah they use an ofdm scheme
Overand: Anyway, the current blockchain with error coding and such could probably reasonably fit into a 20k wide channel
Overand: if we just scale that up
Overand: that's not nothing, but it's not insane
Overand: but getting that across the *world* would t ake a lot of power
Overand: and that's at the current blockchain rate
Overand: Also, next question...
Overand: What good is a one-way transfer?
Overand: I mean it's *some* good
decimation: it would allow off-internet syncing
assbot: The 20 photographs of the week | Art and design | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzTmak )
kakobrekla: anyway now i see my week wasnt all that bad.
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