Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-11-15 | 2014-11-17 →
mircea_popescu: for a while i used to say it (back when i was dealing with romanians). it did... exactly zero difference.
cazalla: hate to say it but.. qntra? ddos?
mircea_popescu: and it's vastly pervasive. average us politician will not understand that his voting record is a matter of... record!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: note also my observation last week, that i intensely suspect 'google usenet archive' was zapped not on account of any accident
asciilifeform: but precisely because attributability.
asciilifeform: and the devils who fear.
undata: cazalla: looks down here
joecool: it's been up and down for past day
asciilifeform: but anyone who thought that a 'library of alexandria' was safe in the hands of the likes of 'google' - was a fool from the start.
joecool: asciilifeform: what's up with google's archive?
asciilifeform: joecool: of 'usenet.' no longer searchable.
asciilifeform: try it.
asciilifeform: is it really possible that i'm the only one who noticed ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << just consider that.
mircea_popescu: coburn actually has to TELL people, that attribution is a thing.
mircea_popescu: and they're like, you know, a buncha barbarians confronting microorganisms.
mircea_popescu: "if you don't wash your hands you get dysentery" "really ? .... hmm.... maybe, but i tihnk it's the will of god... i have my amulets with me..."
mircea_popescu: cazalla as per usual.... i see it jus' fine.
undata: mircea_popescu: I can't pull up trilema here either
mircea_popescu: undata somehow im still getting spam comments tho
joecool: asciilifeform: seems to work for me?
asciilifeform: or, hm, now - no
joecool: i just went to and ran a search and it popped up a few usenet newsgroups and some results mostly from usenet
asciilifeform: try something '90s
asciilifeform: but not '80s
asciilifeform: ('early usenet archive' is separate gizmo there)
joecool: are you talking about the dejanews archive?
asciilifeform: ^ example
asciilifeform: should be ~30,000 posts
mircea_popescu wasn't there, doesn't care anymore about this primitive tribe than about any other primitive tribe that was swallowed b y history.
mircea_popescu thinks if it didn;'t suck it'd have left artefacts.
asciilifeform: it left artifacts.
asciilifeform: mainly on various people's disks.
mircea_popescu: civilisations are judged by what remains, not by what they once were.
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: ^ example of what remains.
asciilifeform: easily worth ten thousand of today's internets put together.
asciilifeform: and that's just one man's archive.
asciilifeform: going right back to 'attribution' point - these libraries - did not burn.
asciilifeform: they will come out.
asciilifeform: and the destroyers - will pay. one day.
decimation: re: gavin's 40 hr week << I was merely pointing out that if ascii's formula is (freedom hrs)/(work hrs), then gavin might have a good score
asciilifeform: his score is nil
asciilifeform: because he is never free.
asciilifeform thought he explained this
decimation: his 'free hours' are an illusion, agreed
asciilifeform: hence zip.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and the destroyers - will pay. one day. << aite!
mircea_popescu: i was mostly giving you a hard time :D
decimation: I note that our volunteer testers seem to have left whatever routing tables they were messing with alone
decimation: I wrote too soon, qntra and trilema are both down for me now right now
mircea_popescu: lmao this stuff...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: decimation: possibly even fewer. <<< he likes a short thing lol.
asciilifeform: (discussion thereof)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: this is a standard usg 'lie detector.' << the funny thing is, i dunno if the scientologists copied the ohmmeter after the usg "lie detector", or vice-versa, the fbi is tring to find yout tethans
decimation: mircea_popescu: maybe if they are short polygraphers usg asks some local scientologists to sub in
asciilifeform: late 19th c. physiologists discovered skin conductance meter (as sanctified by 'scientology')
joecool: asciilifeform: heh yeah i ran some other searches I knew worked before (like linus's first linux announcement on comp.os.minix), it's gone
asciilifeform: the 'polygraph', as the name implies, combines several instruments (eeg, ekg, conductometer)
decimation: to be fair, there is some science in the sense that it detects parasympathetic activation
asciilifeform: that is the apparatus pictured in the photo
decimation: but the problem is this has nothing to do with truthsaying
asciilifeform: about the same thing that hot coals ordeal has to do with 'truth.'
mircea_popescu: joecool funny how that goes, right ?
decimation: as asciilifeform mentioned in the past the operative effect is to filter for 'cold' psychopaths
decimation: or at least very meek and compliant folks
asciilifeform: and in general for folks who don't give a flying fuck
asciilifeform: or those with naturally 'immobile' vital signs
joecool: mircea_popescu: i'm just surprised nobody else wrote about it, i doubt they get huge volume searching for things, but still, nothing mentioned about it
mircea_popescu: news at 11 : good pokerface is good pokerface.
asciilifeform: incidentally, you don't need the jailed quack to 'study lie detector'
mircea_popescu: joecool this is my broader point. a stupid language deserves its own stupidity.
asciilifeform: fiddybucks buys you all the components, in a manageable pocket size.
mircea_popescu: english is in this sense quite stupid.
asciilifeform: ask 'biofeedback' aficionados.
decimation: there is probably some amusement to be had in experimenting with such things
asciilifeform: decimation: there are folks who do it for a hobby.
asciilifeform: ^ ancient backup of 'sixteen volts', kokkarinen's first site.
decimation: from the senior usg 'stendartendfurher's
asciilifeform: nm, borked
asciilifeform: nah, just incomplete
asciilifeform: there is a mostly full one. somewhere.
decimation: from the senior usg Standartenführer's point of view, the polygraph is an ideal device to filter the workforce into compliant sheep and stone cold thugs
mircea_popescu: The brilliant Finnish-Canadian computer science professor / blogger Ilkka Kokkarinen has taken down his popular blog, presumably to keep his job after his campus newspaper noticed his heterodox views. His skepticism about the intellectual consistency of lesbian-feminist theory and practice would appear to have been his biggest crime.
mircea_popescu: "After being alerted by The Ryersonian, computer science chair, Alireza Sadeghian said the department neither accepts nor condones Kokkarinen’s views."
decimation: right, we need to get him here
mircea_popescu: wait. how does a computing dept accept or not accept views in other fields ?
decimation: maybe he can port bitcoind to forth
mircea_popescu: like... does the geography department accept grammar ?
mircea_popescu: what sort of ignarous barbarity is this!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was taken to политотдел.
mircea_popescu: !up nacci
asciilifeform: afaik the only copy on the net.
nacci: hey
asciilifeform: (presently)
asciilifeform: (note, this is 'sixteen volts,' his early site. not 'fourth checkraise')
mircea_popescu: Clearly, Professor Kokkarinen was naive to use his own name when he switched his blog from Finnish to English <<< mp considers just how great his power is.
mircea_popescu: i switched from romanian to english jus' fine.
mircea_popescu: ello nacci. who're you ?
nacci: just another bloke
decimation: mircea_popescu: to be fair, you didn't have a tenured position in a nato colony
mircea_popescu: but... wait. i make more than whatever tenured prof makes.
mircea_popescu: and i can read, just like him.
mircea_popescu: how is this comparison against me ?
decimation: heh yeah that's why he needs to be here
decimation: you see, he has 'loyalty'
decimation: I guess
mircea_popescu: and i dare think if he had a tenured position this would have been a non issue
decimation: well that's a good point, he probably didn't
mircea_popescu: since that's what tenure is. "o you don't like me ? fuck you and get lost."
asciilifeform: tenure doesn't actually exist in angloworld now.
asciilifeform: any more than property.
decimation: tenure exists if you are willing to push the multicult
asciilifeform: (it being a kind of property right, traditionally - fat surprise.)
nacci: nepotism trumps tenure
mircea_popescu: decimation for the record, as one coming from an actually multicultural world, i am both offended at the misuse of the term and would pray you don't discard an actually superior mode of human life
mircea_popescu: just because some fucktarded barbarians in a colony think that cowboys in sheets = latins.
asciilifeform: 'Physicist Steven Jones, who first pointed to the use of thermite in the destruction of the two towers had to agree to having his university buy out his tenure or his university was faced with losing all federal financing.' << example from herr orlov. ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i tell you, if i was the provost i wouldn't have made the offer.
mircea_popescu: let the fucking feds cut off financing.
mircea_popescu: this is like, russian orthodox church vs tsarate already.
asciilifeform: and recall how that went.
mircea_popescu: so what if it did ?
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: !s solzhenitsyn axe
mircea_popescu: fuck that. the freedom you like is built on a certain kind of disinterest in effects.
asciilifeform: except everyone, i think, knows this
asciilifeform: swinging the axe - another matter altogether.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: nothing easier in the world than "fuck you and get lost."
asciilifeform: notable historical case study is treblinka uprising
asciilifeform: notable for being the only major one inside the barbed wire
asciilifeform: (unless counting warsaw ghetto)
asciilifeform: iirc, the magic ingredient - no women
mircea_popescu: funny how that goes huh ?
mircea_popescu: so now... tell me. did it matter how fucking pretty the women were ?
asciilifeform: nein. only that they were already dead.
mircea_popescu: whether young or old ? slutty or annyoing ? big tits or small ? pert or loose ?
mircea_popescu: did not. exactly.
mircea_popescu: in some circumstances, listening to the women is a bad idea.
asciilifeform: the way historians seem to present it, it was less 'listening' and more 'no hostages'
asciilifeform: when 'they'll xxx my mother, sister, wife' - folks hesitate to swing axe
mircea_popescu: hostages ? someone has to first care
asciilifeform: when mother, sister, wife - buried - they swing axe with the grace of ballet dancer.
mircea_popescu: caring has its place. that place is not "everywhere all the time"
asciilifeform was not in treblinka, knows only what the contemporaries saw fit to write down
asciilifeform: the folks blessed with the talent of 'not care' on-demand - probably tended to not end up behind the wire in the first place.
mircea_popescu: and the folk that muck a hand the moment it can't win don't tend to end up in the bottom half of the poker tourney either.
asciilifeform: see also (solely for the quote from seagrave's 'castaways')
asciilifeform: esp. last paragraph.
asciilifeform has the book, it is lovely
asciilifeform: recommends especially to BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: and other aspiring 'mad maxes'
asciilifeform: err, e. leslie
asciilifeform: (seagrave wrote only foreword)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: bitcoind stop detatch?
ben_vulpes: i'm digging, but hints would be lovely
assbot: Coinbase Seeking A Risk Investigator |
asciilifeform: ^ ilkka's book. mutilated but readable.
ben_vulpes: cloudflare now preventing me from getting at
ben_vulpes: watch it come back without any reference to detachdb...
ben_vulpes: is there an mirror anywhere?
assbot: Index of /
ben_vulpes: (just paranoia i suppose)
mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo others : ok, i *think* the bad routing thing may be fixed.
mircea_popescu: pls to let me know furiously if more further problems later on.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, working again here
assbot: Bitcoin Detachdb | Bitcoin P2sh
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes : "Explanation of -detachdb (and the new “stop true” RPC command): The Berkeley DB database library stores data in both “.dat” and “log” files, so the database is always in a consistent state, even in case of power failure or other sudden shutdown. The format of the “.dat” files is portable between different versions of Berkeley DB, but the “log” files are not– even minor version differ
mircea_popescu: ences may have incompatible “log” files. The -detachdb option moves any pending changes from the “log” files to the “blkindex.dat” file for maximum compatibility, but makes shutdown much slower. Note that the “wallet.dat” file is always detached, and versions prior to 0.6.0 detached all databases at shutdown."
mircea_popescu: turns out this is a moot consideration in your case.
ben_vulpes: yeeeeeah.
ben_vulpes: 's what i suspected at least.
asciilifeform: << herr kokkarinen's 'musings', deturdified.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ty for that.
ben_vulpes: lovely asciilifeform
asciilifeform: this is the book, which was a 'best of' (in his view) of his last site, 'fourth checkraise.'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ever considered releasing asylum as a pay-per-dl?
mircea_popescu: to compete with the current, "free" ?
assbot: I wrote a book… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ben_vulpes: trilema credits are free nao?
asciilifeform: i think they want the cover & the turkish bubblegum smell.
ben_vulpes shrugs
mircea_popescu: "free" yo. not free.
ben_vulpes: if the author endorsed approach is to copy the damn thing off his website...
mircea_popescu: anyway, your pay-per-dl comes to like 2k satoshi if you do it in one go, or else free if you take what was it, 5 weeks.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what are you trying to accomplish ?
RagnarDanneskjol: its actually being circulated among some hollyweird people at present fyi
ben_vulpes: i'm actually thinking about bitcoin databases so nothing w/r/t asylum
ben_vulpes: honestly i'd just rather have it on my kindle than flip through whatever's in the mail
mircea_popescu: meh, i dun wanna support x or y's closed platform.
ben_vulpes: "versions prior to 0.6.0 detached all databases at shutdown." << explains hilariously slow shutdowns
asciilifeform: how often does a sane person shut down 'bitcoind' anyway?
asciilifeform: next, what, want fast reactor shutdowns?
mircea_popescu: "shut down"
mircea_popescu: didn't you shut yours down a number of times ?
asciilifeform: for debuggery - aye
mircea_popescu: /alias shutdown kill -9
asciilifeform: incidentally this is why a correctly-implemented blockchain db is isomorphic to a 'journalling' file system.
mircea_popescu: im not sure why bdb is trying to be both
asciilifeform: so that 'kill -9'-style death is always the correct behaviour.
asciilifeform: and in no case can result in inconsistent state
ben_vulpes: in any event i've gotten the thing to 240000
ben_vulpes: i'll be quite amused if i fail to wedge it
asciilifeform: what's it running on?
ben_vulpes: mod6 is perusing the tens of thousands of lines of excised code
ben_vulpes: debian on some virtualization layer
asciilifeform: ah, wai, wat
asciilifeform: excised what?
asciilifeform: tens thousands lines?
ben_vulpes: i exaggerate
mircea_popescu: "The only thing women clearly do better without men is raise the next generation of criminals."
mircea_popescu: bwahhha ok not bad.
asciilifeform: herr kokkarinen made a point never to write an essay more than 1 paragraph or so in length.
asciilifeform: whole thing can be 'eaten' in an evening.
mircea_popescu is apparently of the opposing school.
mircea_popescu: i remember the times i could say an article in five pages
mircea_popescu: vaguely.
asciilifeform: why ilkka did this - i do not know. some necromancer here can perhaps resurrect him and ask.
mircea_popescu: if you take the 94 million kulaks, capitalists, dissidents and other groups of people that socialists murdered in the twentieth century, and punch the numbers into a calculator, the average number of victims per hour equals almost exactly the one-hour kill count of Anders Breivik. Just imagine how absurd it would be if, instead of being captured and neutralized, Anders were simply allowed to keep killing people day and
mircea_popescu: night until the twenty-second century dawns. And yet such an absurdity practically defined the twentieth century.
mircea_popescu: "socialism doesn't kill people" :D
mats_cd03: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042212 / 0.00043058 / 0.00044033 (585026 shares, 251.91 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.0005235 / 0.00065245 (7865451 shares, 4,117.57 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00066873 / 0.00081111 (23548921 shares, 15,748.02 BTC)
assbot: This Onion, It Smells: Inherent Hazards of the Tor Network |
ben_vulpes: have 0.5.3 blockchains at 240001; interested researchers may request links.
ben_vulpes: next checkpoint 245000
assbot: Tor: This Onion Smells - Slashdot
fluffypony stretches
BingoBoingo: How's Rhodesia?
fluffypony: still in the USA
fluffypony: flying to LA tomorrow, sleep over one night, then back to SA on Monday via Dubai
BingoBoingo: Ah, cool.
fluffypony: Vegas was fun, saw the Blue Man Group for the first time and they were awesome
fluffypony: also the production quality on La Rêve was insane
BingoBoingo: Vegas, where entertainers never really die... until they... actually die
fluffypony: lol yeah
BingoBoingo: Well, their choices are what? Vegas or Branson?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 2083 @ 0.0012 = 2.4996 BTC
assbot: reptillians on earth - YouTube
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so it passed wedgespot ?
BingoBoingo: !up twentydollarbill
assbot: As Developers Depart, Google Glass Is Ready To Become This Era’s Segway | TechCrunch
cazalla was raised a joho
cazalla: you think bitcoin makes you an outsider, you have nfi
cazalla: anyway, that is not joho propaganda punkman
punkman: what'd you expect from CNN
punkman: cazalla: did you ever do the door-to-door thing?
cazalla: punkman, yeah countless times plus fkn wednesday night book study, sunday talks and worse, assemblies
punkman: pretty rare around here, but I've seen the odd flyer
cazalla: rare here as well, when i was around, my parents each lost a brother within 6 months so that opened the door for the jws to get their hooks in with the paradise earth bullshit
cazalla: araound 5 i mean
cazalla: you know what kicked off us leaving? doom and rise of the triad
cazalla: once i hit my teens and refused to go and was willing to take a beating if it meant i could play doom, domino effect kicked in and family stopped going
assbot: Bernard von NotHaus of Liberty Dollar Has His Motion for Post-Conviction Relief Denied, Will Face Sentencing - Hit & Run :
cazalla: !up bitbethelp
bitbethelp: this bet was resolved incorrectly, 1 sec
assbot: BitBet - Republicans win majority of the U.S. Senate :: 1.3 B (58%) on Yes, 0.93 B (42%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago
bitbethelp: just so you know, dd4btc is a tard
assbot: Open Port Check Tool - Test Port Forwarding on Your Router
bitbethelp: interesting way assbot is using to cloak its ip
BingoBoingo: !down bitbethelp
BingoBoingo: ;;isup
gribble: is down
BingoBoingo: Oh well. It was a good run.
thestringpuller: what happened?
thestringpuller: are they ddosing the drinking record?
BingoBoingo: Sure, but no big
thestringpuller: you haven't gone to bed yet?
BingoBoingo: Uptime is what it is
thestringpuller: dat uptime
BingoBoingo: I'm up learly today
BingoBoingo: !up bitbethelp
bitbethelp: fivezerotwo here fyi
cazalla: bitbethelp, you misrepresented yourself to me
bitbethelp: cazalla, correct! this is what /b/tards would call "social engineering"
bitbethelp: herpderp
cazalla: to what end? you didn't gain anything
thestringpuller: << hey look thermos is well being thermos
punkman: bitbethelp: are you also the guy that claimed to have a bitbet hack a while back?
bitbethelp: cazalla, nor did I lose anything. it's not about the attempts where you don't get anything, but the attempts you succeed.
bitbethelp: punkman: no
cazalla: bitbethelp, well, you're 0 for what must be 1000+ attempts to get paid at this point
bitbethelp: cazalla, lol
thestringpuller: the only way to get paid in this channel is to do work :P
bitbethelp: say one line and you can mislead people on your intent
bitbethelp: here's a tip: people who want to get paid send along an address, like that dd4bc tard
punkman: guess the lulz are payment enough
cazalla: beggars can't be choosers
bitbethelp: ;;isup
gribble: is up
bitbethelp: nope, it isn't
bitbethelp: so, cazalla, what's your plan on running qntra when it's going to be down 7x24 if it gets any sort of traction?
cazalla: bitbethelp, having a beer, cunt!
bitbethelp: when operating a website you need to consider advanced persistent threats, such as yours truly
cazalla: bitbethelp, you give me the excuse i need to drink so have at it
BingoBoingo: Qntra really doesn't look down at all from here
cazalla: you're not a threat, you're are like the buzzing of flies
bitbethelp: BingoBoingo, you're the very minority
cazalla: you best find other targets bitbethelp
punkman: mpex is a much better target
bitbethelp: punkman, why so, it's used by 10 people tops
cazalla: why would anyone pay you to stop then bitbethelp ?
bitbethelp: cazalla, why do you still have this assumption i'm trying to extort you into paying me?
cazalla: than why are you doing this?
cazalla: then even
cazalla: see what you made me do bitbethelp, you made me drink all this beer
bitbethelp: maybe you could pay me to find out, lel
cazalla: do you take paypal?
mircea_popescu: * cazalla was raised a joho << o.O
cazalla: mircea_popescu, didn't mean i had to believe it
mircea_popescu: i never met one b4.
mircea_popescu: bitbethelp> cazalla, nor did I lose anything. it's not about the attempts where you don't get anything, but the attempts you succeed. << what is this fucktardry, srsly.
bitbethelp: every successful attack takes lots of attempts, some fruitless
mircea_popescu: punkbot lol mating. apparently, every successful writing takes lots of attempts, some of which are... muitless.
assbot: manamex +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
BingoBoingo: !up manamex
manamex: BingoBoingo thanks
Anduck: !up bitbethelp
manamex: new here, reading logs
jurov: ;;isup
gribble: is up
jurov: not from here
mircea_popescu: i always wondered what % of "operations" end when group #1 doing "undercover work" catches group #2.
punkman: indeed
BingoBoingo: I have to assume that's most of what they do now.
mircea_popescu: must suck lol
jurov: bitbethelp accused me of inadequate politeness cuz i did not respond timely to pm and in one breath promised coinbr is next after qntra
jurov: lol
BingoBoingo: !up sdffsd
BingoBoingo: !up Xuthus
decimation: those '' links he put in the logs are ip loggers, probably trying to find more targets
mats_cd03: lol yes
mats_cd03: i wonder if kako has a proxy for assbot
jurov: ;;isup
gribble: is up
kakobrekla: mats_cd03 i do.
BingoBoingo: assbot has asses of proxy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 900 @ 0.00120197 = 1.0818 BTC [+] {6}
jurov: bitbethelp promised to drain my aws budget.. cleaarly these ddosing redditards did not do the math
kakobrekla: cant trust a redditard
assbot: manamex +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
BingoBoingo: !up manamex
manamex: got worned by bitbethelp everyone on this channel gets dosed
manamex: let's be it, why would anyone would want to do it, what is the point?
chetty: to act tough
manamex: never mind, not that it matters
BingoBoingo: Eh, kind of just like weather anymore.
asciilifeform: undercover agents << 'the man who was thursday.'
asciilifeform: or even 'a scanner darkly.'
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mircea_popescu << ascii reported wedge at 252450
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: got a wedge?
ben_vulpes: not yet.
asciilifeform: how far in?
ben_vulpes: backing up 245000 right now
ben_vulpes: if as you suspect it has to do with the cooccurrence of running out of memory and writing to bdb, i'll have to let it run for a while
asciilifeform: irreproducible bug is best bug.
ben_vulpes: what machine did you run yours on?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recent 'intel' box with 8g
asciilifeform: (gentoo)
xanthyos: 3 days after buying coinbase bitcoins the progress bar is at the halfway mark
xanthyos: they deliberately slow themselves down to handicap daytraders
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 18:38:56; mircea_popescu: except it should be explicitly exclusive rather than inclusive. "We will NOT work with unqualified third parties, which is to say parties that have not satisfied their log reading and wot presence prequalifications."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00120366 = 1.2037 BTC [+] {9}
kakobrekla: asciilifeform do you find arm less evil for being risc?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: my dislike of 'arm' has very little to do with the architecture.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: but if you're thinking about the ancient 'risc vs cisc' debate, it isn't really any kind of contest today, as there is no architecture of past 20 yrs. or so design that could really be classified as a 'cisc'
kakobrekla: what, does 'cisc' sticker on the box make it sell faster?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: name a 'cisc' (that is, 'complete', or, in more practical terms, optimized for hand-written asm that is a minimum of pain to write -and- read) chip designed in recent years.
assbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it.
asciilifeform: no such animal.
kakobrekla: i did say sticker only.
asciilifeform: sticker?
asciilifeform: i must be missing something
kakobrekla: branding?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla is posting through time warp from 1985? i don't recall seeing 'risc' or 'cisc' mentioned on a crate, since, i don't know when
kakobrekla: isnt x86 branded as cisc ?
jurov: it was,2y ago
jurov: 20y ago
jurov: since pentium it is cisc with risc internals
asciilifeform: x86 is a cisc (interestingly, the internals of modern x86 compatibles are pure risc, with emulation layer for the ancient crud baked on)
asciilifeform: aha, jurov has it.
kakobrekla: bastards.
jurov: lol
asciilifeform: move to 'risc' was driven mainly by desire for auto-optimization (pipelining, out-of-order instruction sequencing) in the pursuit of 'fast' (see )
assbot: Loper OS » Going Nowhere Really Fast, or How Computers Only Come in Two Speeds.
asciilifeform: the only living representative of the cisc school of thought is the x86, which survives purely from symbiosis with microshit
asciilifeform: it also happens to be the worst known such architecture by virtually any conceivable measure.
jurov: i heard it has denser code(closer to c) and thus better cache effectivity
asciilifeform: for folks who are mystified by this thread, a 'risc' (reduced instruction set) cpu is typically one where 'instruction set fits in the back cover of your textbook.'
asciilifeform: if you did computer-anything engineering in school, you probably remember 'mips'
jurov: yes
asciilifeform: one of the things i often, usually to no avail, try to explain to people, is that there is no such thing as 'efficiency.' there is only efficiency -at- something.
jurov: probably efficiency measured in lines of c executed
asciilifeform: so, as described in my 'going nowhere' article, the modern winblows pc is in fact less efficient for virtually any practical purpose than its predecessors two decades earlier, despite a titanic amount of effort poured into the cpu micro-optimizations
asciilifeform: there is a kind of 'bezzle' or, more precisely, 'dekulakization' dynamic involved, where cpu designers are really labouring to extend the life of idiot software ecosystem
asciilifeform: whose continued bloat is considered an immutable fact of life
asciilifeform: the dog eats and eats so the fleas can live.
jurov: i once read a piece on what everything is expected of today's text input field - clipboard handling, mouse selection, bidi input, undo/redo, font redering,...
asciilifeform: aha. rob pike.
jurov: if these requirememnts can be solved without heaping code
jurov: i dunno
asciilifeform: well, if you are thinking of the ones you just stated, as opposed to everything listed in pike's talk,
asciilifeform: they were handily met by, e.g., symbolics lisp machine. mine has 4M of ram installed, which was considered large.
jurov: it has bidirectional input?
asciilifeform: bidirectional as in, e.g., arabic?
jurov: adn subpixel hiting?
asciilifeform: not afaik
jurov: yes arabic
jurov: *subpixel hiting
jurov: derrrrp hinting
asciilifeform: i cannot say for certain what these things would 'weigh' on such a machine, but can definitely bet that they would weigh considerably less (in terms of code complexity or sheer physical space) than on modern arch.
asciilifeform: on account of there being precisely one routine, used by everything on the box, which is responsible for character rendering; another for the input handling; etc
asciilifeform: sorta how a unix box with dynamic libs wishes it worked
asciilifeform: ^ rob pike's talk, for those who never read
jurov: that hangs on presumption that list somehow magically prevents parallel standards/reimplementations
jurov: *lisp
asciilifeform: it wasn't the lisp actually
jurov: so that no X11-like explosion of toolkits would occur
asciilifeform: (for some odd reason, folks ignore the fact that 'symbolics' os happily ran fortran, pascal, ada, and yes, even c - code - on same box, and the proggys could share data structures)
asciilifeform: native os was implemented in 'zetalisp', a symbolics-proprietary predecessor of modern common lisp, yes.
jurov: okay i did not mean lisp as such, but the architecture as a whole
asciilifeform: jurov: it is always possible to crap in the kitchen. but folks who own a toilet, typically do not.
asciilifeform: once you remove the overwhelming incentive to do stupid things, you generally see less of them.
jurov: um. i'm not convinced that ever worked
asciilifeform: but even a gift of a solid gold toilet is no guarantee that the recipient of said gift won't prefer the kitchen sink.
asciilifeform was going to link jurov to kalman reti's film about smbx machine, but noticed that it was recently censored.
asciilifeform searches for backup
jurov: i have seen it when you linked it recently
asciilifeform: it is by no means a complete picture, but gives the general idea.
asciilifeform: (who censored it, and why? i'd love to know)
mircea_popescu: uh ? what's missing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the film linked in an old post of mine:
assbot: Loper OS » Kalman Reti, the Last Symbolics Developer, Speaks of Lisp Machines.
asciilifeform: ^ mirror
mircea_popescu: !up bobsiha
assbot: Actual Bitcoin corporations (ABCs) versus fiat-based frauds trying to masquerade as Bitcoin companies (while masquerading as companies in the first place) on the solid theory that the general public is too stupid to make any difference, this one included, and on the flimsy theory that the general public matters in Bitcoin (FBF-TTMABC-WMACITFP-OTSTTTGPITSTMAD-TOI-AOTFTTTGPMIBs, alphabets for short). pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ^ titles are not enough for me!
xanthyos: !up thomas_d
assbot: Shtetl-Optimized » Blog Archive » What does the NSA think of academic cryptographers? Recently-declassified document provides clues
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: the paper in question is not only of 20 yrs. vintage, but officially released (not in any sense leaked)
mircea_popescu: lol not bad.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: hence, i'd take with 'grain of salt'
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, noted
asciilifeform: 'Desmedt referred to a letter written by Marty Hellman criticizing NIST. I had all but forgotten about Hellman; he has not been active on cryptologic scene in many years, and I've always had doubts about his moral principles (by contrast, I regard Rivest as being above all this dirt).'
chetty: Hellman caught them with their pants down didn't he?
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
thomas_d: Do you usually need to wait a little while after exporting cert to server?
thomas_d: I just did it about 30 seconds ago
thomas_d: ;;eregister thomas_d BBE4FD4CC1083523
gribble: Error: Could not retrieve your key from keyserver. Either it isn't there, or it is invalid.
xanthyos: thomas_d: do it in PM so it doesn't congest the chat
xanthyos: bagels7 had the same error i think
mircea_popescu: thomas_d bout an hour or so
thomas_d: cool
thomas_d: I should introduce myself anyway my name is thomas dick I'm a noob
Apocalyptic: <thomas_d> Do you usually need to wait a little while after exporting cert to server? // yes you do
mircea_popescu: your name seriously is dick ?
asciilifeform: chetty: i've found the letter in question:
assbot: The Risks Digest Volume 12: Issue 63
Apocalyptic: give it 1-2 hours
thomas_d: dick is my middle name
thomas_d: but I go by thomas dick
thomas_d: are there any regulations/guidelines on the chatting here, or anything goes?
kakobrekla: so what do you do thomas?
thomas_d: can't see anything in the topic
thomas_d: I'm in an entry-level IT position
mircea_popescu: well the general idea is to spend a while reading the logs
asciilifeform: thomas_d: programmer ?
mircea_popescu: then this and such questions tend to answer themselves.
thomas_d: nah service desk
thomas_d: networks
mircea_popescu: "Don Beaver (Penn State), in another era, would have been a spellbinding charismatic preacher; young, dashing (he still wears a pony-tail), self-confident and glib, he has captured from Silvio Micali the leadership of the philosophic wing of the U.S. East Coast cryptanalytic community."
mircea_popescu: here's a q for you asciilifeform : if i were the big bad and you were my officer in charge of fucking nerdcore up, and the strategy was, "inject a person whom on the basis of sheer animal magnetism can be used to steer things ways",
mircea_popescu: would you hire a man or a woman for this task ?
asciilifeform: depends on the designated chumps, no?
mircea_popescu: supposing you have a person printing machine, can make them up to spec.
asciilifeform: what'd a 'nerdcore' anyway
mircea_popescu: well, the designated chumps, "the U.S. East Coast cryptanalytic community"
mircea_popescu: a nerdcore is roughly what "academia" is : adding words to specified idiocy to make it palatable. it's not a buncha derps, because CORE.
asciilifeform: not being one of the designated chumps in question, i'd ask for a subverted greybeard. but i am not a doctor of chumpatronics, and may be naive here.
mircea_popescu: uh. how'd that work ?
asciilifeform: e.g. schneier
xanthyos: a person printing machine like from kafka's "in the penal colony"
mircea_popescu: ~ on the basis of sheer animal magnetism ~
mircea_popescu: gotta stick to the strat yo.
asciilifeform: i'd have picked him based on his 'street cred' from his service in the '90s crypto wars
mircea_popescu: but thats out of scope.
asciilifeform: if question specifically concerns 'animal magnetism' - difficult to answer. most of the chumpatronic work involved, i doubt would win from this stratagem. i, for instance, have never (to my knowledge) been within musket distance of a live cryptographer (of whatever variety)
mircea_popescu: but we are discussing the nerdcore.
mircea_popescu: you know, like bitcoincore.
asciilifeform: ergo i need to be chumped with paper
asciilifeform: and how many of these chumps are chumped in a lecture hall, and not with paper?
mircea_popescu: i think most.
asciilifeform: seriously?
asciilifeform: how many of the 'tardstalk' folks have seen gavin alive
mircea_popescu: the reason the remnant is so insistent on "real world" vs "trolls" perhaps follows a simple calculation
asciilifeform: i, for example, don't even know what he looks like
mircea_popescu: "we have a this which works and a that which sort-of works and is more expensive"
mircea_popescu: i would bet you 100% have.
mircea_popescu: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: well, not knowingly
mircea_popescu: << this, incidentally, is whom "leadership" was captured...from.
asciilifeform: for all i know, lizard hitler rides elevator with me every day
asciilifeform does not recall seeing this mug before
mircea_popescu: so basically, not your kind of job ?
asciilifeform: unfortunately not.
asciilifeform: although, now that you mention it,
asciilifeform: reading the ancient 'cryptolog', i can almost hear a tone of voice
mircea_popescu: you can can't you.
asciilifeform: and it sounds very much like certain other persons
mircea_popescu: this is how the fucking problem with "releases" go.
xanthyos: ;;gettrust thomas_d
mircea_popescu: it is functionally impossible to make a release that works for *any* evnetual readers.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user thomas_d: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
asciilifeform: it isn't even 'cold psychopath' or the like. it is the basic tone of voice of the 'mean gurlz' who are, between sentences, cackling at the 'goodies' their gurlz club is privy to
asciilifeform: vs. the chumpers
asciilifeform: now that this came up, i will say that i have seen this alive
asciilifeform: as in, actual (former) friends who took up the cloak of the beast, and their patterns of speech actually changed.
asciilifeform: similar to how men who have sat in russian prison, have detectably characteristic patterns of speech
asciilifeform: specifically not speaking of vocabulary or idiomatisms here
asciilifeform: but patterns.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i can imagine only with great difficulty that a usg cryptologist of any actual stature (that is, creator of, or even privy to, a 'crown jewel') would be permitted to make public so much as a newspaper ad for a dog walker, much less a document pertaining to his profession.
asciilifeform: (an internal report marked 'confidential' should be regarded as a public document for the purpose of this statement.)
asciilifeform: 'confidential' is the lowest level of classification in usg.
asciilifeform: about on par with a receipt for pizza at the office.
mircea_popescu: ok, let me put this in a different light.
asciilifeform: the author is likely an 'outer circle' man.
mircea_popescu: out of the 100k or so academics trudging for us-academia-wot, how many are likely to publish their research like i do, on trilema, just like that ?
asciilifeform: kept around, permitted to work on problems in his circle of interests among his own kind, but generally kept away from anything 'jewel'-like.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of "permitted" per se.
asciilifeform: us-academia or 'intelligence komyoonity' ?
asciilifeform: rather different animals
asciilifeform: (similar in some interesting ways, but kept in separate tanks at the zoo)
mircea_popescu: separate but identical ?
asciilifeform: i have personally only taken a swim in the larger tank, the former
asciilifeform: cannot speak for the smaller tank
asciilifeform: but among generic u.s. mathemasturbators, unaffiliated with nsa et al, it is quite common to post 'preprints' on www.
mircea_popescu: anonymously ?
asciilifeform: no, on their official university www, typically
asciilifeform: often, even now, as 'postscript' turds
mircea_popescu: so in short : people who make their living cutting beards are not likely to be seen cutting beards outside of the place where this pays.
asciilifeform: well, they also tend to use their barbershops as homes. in the sense that many academics keep personal blog-type material on the same site.
asciilifeform: (herr kokkarinen, before anyone asks, did not)
asciilifeform: ^ met very briefly in meatspace
mircea_popescu: a much better caption would be minsky with his eyes closed.
asciilifeform: i think that actually hangs in the hall where he works.
mircea_popescu: manamex: got worned by bitbethelp everyone on this channel gets dosed << lol we're speshul.
ben_vulpes: ;;isup
gribble: is up
ben_vulpes: hogwash
asciilifeform: aha dead.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 21 @ 0.09372684 = 1.9683 BTC [+] {10}
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: reminiscent of bucky fuller's dumps
ben_vulpes: rather.
assbot: thomas_d +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
asciilifeform: !up thomas_d
thomas_d: yo i registered
xanthyos: ;;rate thomas_d 1 known on tinychat for a while. seals with clubs player.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user thomas_d has been recorded.
thomas_d: ;;rate thomas_d 1 real stand-up guy
gribble: Error: You cannot rate yourself.
thomas_d: damn
thomas_d: ;;rate xanthyos 1 good upbringing
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user xanthyos has been recorded.
joecool: ;;gettrust joecool
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask joecool!~joecool@no-sources/joecool. Trust relationship from user joecool to user joecool: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 66 via 38 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Thu Apr 28 14:23:15 2011
asciilifeform: (especially entertaining in light of the 'strings' bug)
joecool: !s strings
joecool: yeah i see it
decimation: asciilifeform: much more lulzy in that cryptolog is the section on 'TQM'
decimation: "NSA as an institution, however has become a TQM believer, born again in the gospel of Deming"
decimation: !s deming
asciilifeform: deming is reasonably famous
decimation: deming et. al. were kind of cult 'self-help' experts for managers
decimation: this book goes into some detail on the history of the supposed 'efficiency experts' like deming
asciilifeform: have not read this, but it appears to 'drink the koolaid'
asciilifeform: and so, of limited interest
decimation: his theory (which is somewhat convoluted) is that us business was ruined in the post-wwII boom because traditional management (in the line-and-staff model) were being replaced by 'staff' instead of competent 'line'
decimation: really, it traces the general breakdown of social heirarchy expounded in the logs
decimation: in fact, there's a parallel between the 'cisc' vs. 'risc' efficiency argument you make (efficient at what?) and the demingites (we make your people more efficient - details unimportant!)
asciilifeform: well, the real boojum (as described, for example, by mircea_popescu) is that the optimization folks did not put the task as 'build $widget using less steel, rubber, hours of slave' but 'build $widget more bezzleprofitably' which usually leads to 'build $widget-prime and try to pass off to chumpers as genuine $widget'
asciilifeform: $widget-prime is normally some debased/inferior version
asciilifeform: !s zamac
asciilifeform: just about everyone (except the usual suspects) can 'agree to have' the folks cranking out debased fiat currencies, but they are not the only (and possibly not even the most interesting) 'counterfeiters'
asciilifeform: *agree to hate
asciilifeform: one example, randomly pulled out of a hat, is 'solid state hard disk'
asciilifeform: where increased densities are presently being achieved in a way which guarantees a speedier death through ion migration
asciilifeform: but i (or anyone else here) could sit for a week, coughing up examples of this, and not come close to running out
asciilifeform: !s shrinkflation
jurov: you're supposed to throw everything out after x months, didn't you get the memo?
asciilifeform: x minutes
asciilifeform: per latest memo!
undata: how much more "prepared for total war" can ukraine get?
undata: this ww3 cocktease is getting old
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, ssd's are a good example. and note that nearly all manufacturers neglect to make clear how they are driving their flash and what kind fo flash it is
cazalla: i guess ddos is back :\
kakobrekla: down for 2h 18m
xanthyos: ;;rate thomas_d 2 really good at poker and gpg contract signing for a new guy.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user thomas_d has changed from 1 to 2.
assbot: Logged on 02-11-2014 21:05:38; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel: heh <<< i like the guy's specifications skills tho.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: coinbr is getting 30k pingbacks/minute
kakobrekla: those are easy to block
thestringpuller: coinbr isn't wordpress how is it getting pingback?
jurov: - - [16/Nov/2014:22:08:27 +0000] "GET /login HTTP/1.1" 444 0 "-" "WordPress/3.9.2;; verifying pingback from" ""
jurov: ^ like this
ben_vulpes: xanthyos: d'you plan to endeedify that that contract?
ben_vulpes: suspiciously simple.
kakobrekla: your favorite news outlet is up
xanthyos: ben_vulpes: i just googled "endeedify" adn the only 2 results were from assets log. i plan no endeedification for a .001 poker tournament
assbot: edify - Wörterbuch Englisch-Deutsch -
ben_vulpes: xanthyos: it's really easy, just
ben_vulpes: .deed <link to clearsigned contract>
punkbot: ben_vulpes: Error: '<link' is not a valid http url.
punkbot: xanthyos: No valid deeds found, try again.
kakobrekla: mingw32 alert!
xanthyos: last time i signed a contract the signature was around the whole contents
xanthyos: idk what happened this time
ben_vulpes: gpg --clearsign
ben_vulpes: vs --detach-sig
punkbot: ben_vulpes: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid)
undata: "within 24 hours of acquiring funds for repayment" << so, like, whenever?
ben_vulpes: it'd seem that way, undata
assbot: Bitcoin Transaction 325613a4b0882570b4265f879ea0eec1130986ba3cdb49c2dc2e2ab977175f55
undata: not bad terms for a loan between friends, otherwise...
undata rolls up his newspaper, thonks a user
ben_vulpes: yeah where can i find more keybase users to whack
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: didn't you hear? is the future of GPG
thestringpuller: even jgarzik thinks GPG should die!
xanthyos: blame danielpbarron for setting me up with a gpg key when he recruited me
undata: danielpbarron: THONK!
asciilifeform: lol! someone actually uses 'keybase' ?!?!
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, I was as surprised
xanthyos: i'd change it but i don't want to risk losing my identity
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it's because keyservers don't have CSS donchano
asciilifeform waits to see who is using 'clipper chip'
undata: xanthyos: that is what is currently at risk.
Apocalyptic: xanthyos, there's a ,,echangekey gribble command to change the associated key to your WoT account
thestringpuller: ;;echangekey
gribble: (echangekey <keyid>) -- Changes your GPG registered key to <keyid>. <keyid> is a 16 digit key id, with or without the '0x' prefix. We look on servers listed in 'plugins.GPG.keyservers' config. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. You must be authenticated in order to use this (1 more message)
kakobrekla: someone actually uses 'keybase' ?!?! < no surprise there
BingoBoingo wouldn't mind having Clipper Ship
xanthyos: i don't use keybase but my key was generated there
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
Apocalyptic: why on earth would you generate a key outside of your system ?
kakobrekla: to get in the bash ez
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
thestringpuller: that's depressing
assbot: Razzle-dazzle
gernika: BingoBoingo I think Yasha Levine is male.
xanthyos: it's all i was taught
xanthyos: again, blame dpb
asciilifeform: dimunitive of 'jacob'
xanthyos: i'm trying to generate a key now
xanthyos: on a slow machine
nubbins`: <<< i'd raid that fucking thing for parts.
assbot: 'Grass' Model 79 D - Imgur
asciilifeform: nubbins`: they were superbly made.
BingoBoingo: gernika: Updated it to use the first name.
nubbins`: it was sound amplification that introduced me to the joy of a well-made knob
ben_vulpes: are rectangular knobs cool?
ben_vulpes: to me they scream "i can't make stuff"
asciilifeform: nubbins`: knobs << yet another reason to own a lathe.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes they're shaped like nintendo wii, what do you think
nubbins`: asciilifeform what, making body jewelry for the kids isn't lucrative enough?
assbot: lathe - Imgur
ben_vulpes: it seems like the rectangular knobs are used for discrete settings and the round ones for continuous settings?
ben_vulpes: now that's a lathe
nubbins`: what a beast
asciilifeform: there was an even bigger one there
asciilifeform didn't buy either. can't transport, can't supply 3phase
nubbins`: ben_vulpes i think the round ones look indexed as well
thestringpuller: what does the turd lathe look like?
ben_vulpes: they do don't they, nubbins`
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: turd lathe << ask jurov
nubbins`: coulda just put the dots there for a laff, i guess
ben_vulpes backs away slowly
ben_vulpes: clearly cohesion in operator interface was not a design goal for this machine.
xanthyos: shit just overwrote something important i can't undo
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
asciilifeform: the round knobs turned smoothly.
nubbins`: are those DIN connectors for the inputs?
ben_vulpes: dots for laffs
xanthyos: made it like it was a huge issue to change my key now and i'm not up for it
asciilifeform: iirc din, yes
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> dots for laffs <<< wouldn't be the first time
nubbins`: speaking of DIN, i've got this tiny korg synthesizer, with all-analog voice circuitry
nubbins`: it's got a tiny chip inside to control a sequencer
nubbins`: has MIDI functionality built in, the only thing they didn't do was wire up a DIN port.
ben_vulpes: xanthyos: you should back your .gnupg dir up before doing *anything* to it.
ben_vulpes: maybe not adding others' keys to your keyring but...pretty much anything else until you're comfortable with the process.
nubbins`: incidentally, korg released the schematics for the synth as well as a couple others
xanthyos: i haven't lost data
xanthyos: just the convenient way i had it organized
jurov: ;;google turd lathe
gribble: Bird Turd Jesus: Ohio Man Jim Lawry Says Dropping On His ...: <>; Alex Wetmore is always busy with something… » Cargo Turd: <>; Help me design my CNC lathe - CNC Zone: <>
xanthyos: everything is backed up that needs to be backed up, except for the specific way i like things presented to me in directories
nubbins`: ^ for music/hardware mod buffs
ben_vulpes: muff wiggler eh
nubbins`: like 1/4 of the way through the thread people are posting pics of their diy "mod chips" ;D
nubbins`: but seriously, korg helpfully labelled all the interesting mod points on ths board
nubbins`: watta company
nubbins`: thestringpuller looks like your pkg is in ny
thestringpuller: took that long to cross the border?
nubbins`: right?
nubbins`: anyway canada post says tomorrow, but i don't think a package is gonna get from a sort facility in nyc to your door in a day
nubbins`: o hi
nubbins`: duod yuor website is borken
mircea_popescu: it's not broken for me!11
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: "my roof isn't on fire here in the basement!
mircea_popescu: i guess we get to know what solipsism really is. turns out mp really doesn't give a shit as long as he himself can see his website.
nubbins`: the solipsistic soliloquist
mircea_popescu: if you wanna pm me an ip i can whitelist it.
nubbins`: a polimedia venture
nubbins`: guess i'll see what sort of lease i get on these things
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i guess the tarpitting may be too aggrssive at the edges or w/e. anyway. anyone else want whitelisted lemme know.
mircea_popescu: decimation: "NSA as an institution, however has become a TQM believer, born again in the gospel of Deming" <<< im not even sure anyone groks the botomless pit of lulz this otherwise truthful statement contains.
mircea_popescu: where is your lizzard hitler nao, asciilifeform ?
BingoBoingo: Probably sunning himself on some rocks, like lizard hitler does
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 'build $widget-prime and try to pass off to chumpers as genuine $widget' <<< what else is the 80/20 software engineering approach than "build 80% of a functional program out of 20% of the budget and then try to pretend like we're selling it for "half price" ?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile after 20 iterations of this, one every year and a half,
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .8 ** 20
gribble: 0.0115292150461
mircea_popescu: o look! one percent!
mircea_popescu: and you know what the best part of it is ? meanwhile inflation...
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .2 ** 20
mircea_popescu: ahem. i mean.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .5 ** 20
gribble: 9.53674316406e-07
mircea_popescu: o look! we can print 10 million dollars to the dollar and inflation is pretty much even! because reasons!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile corporate profits...
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .5 ** 20 / .2 ** 20
gribble: 90949470.1773
mircea_popescu: whoa look at the corporate profits!11 wall street is best street!
mircea_popescu: and so today you can buy an icecream cone like you could in the 80s, except : that it is "the same icecream" that's 1% icecream, that you buy it for "the same dollars" that have been inflated 10mn to one and that all this allowed imaginary profits nobody can spent to be safely stored where such things are usually stored : fort knox, the social security, people's pensions...
nubbins`: pensions are so 20th century
nubbins`: i expect to see them vanish as a concern in my lifetime
mircea_popescu: well they're only hanging by the thread of pretense as it is.
nubbins`: not even that, in many cases
mircea_popescu: like those slumlord fire hidrants, they're red and they're safelt there
mircea_popescu: for as long as no fires.
nubbins`: there have been several "take half your pension or take none of it
nubbins`: " type situations in these parts, the past couple years
nubbins`: maybe still winding thru arbitration. i'll dig
nubbins`: ok this was actually a couple years ago
mircea_popescu: interesting.
mircea_popescu: i didn't know it actually got THIS bad.
nubbins`: same outlook as social insurance (social security for yanqis), but from a different angle
nubbins`: "well if my old-age pension won't be there, at least i'll have my... uh.."
mircea_popescu: reddit account.
mircea_popescu: full of reddit gld.
nubbins`: at least we've got our natural resourc...OH FUCK
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: where is your announcement that happened in nov - dec 2012 saying you were selling more shares of MPOE on MPEx?
thestringpuller: it was slightly before the "MPOE is likely monetizing itself" article
nubbins`: "Provincial budgeting has been off by an average of $800 million a year over the past seven years, largely due to inaccurate oil projections."
mircea_popescu: just read the mpex category neh ?
thestringpuller: i will when butthurt ddoser decides to stop ruining the nice things for us
nubbins`: he's outta credits
nubbins`: incidentally, my trilema cookie was the one thing i didn't save when i wiped this machine
thestringpuller: i backed my trilema cookie up via gpg on a bunch of sites like dropbox
thestringpuller: since I lost it twice in 2012
asciilifeform: pension << 'the last bullet health'n'life-insurance-and-pension co.'
asciilifeform: lizard hitler << at 'meta-nsa' naturally, where else
asciilifeform: (for folks who want a more 'upbeat' figure as an example for a leaf of living matter inside bureaucratic garbage compactor - try korolev.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, how does korolev fit in your analysis of 'how much would satan have to pay to be loved' ?
asciilifeform: or lev theremin, for that matter
mircea_popescu: i thought it was "evil governmen t" not stan ?
asciilifeform: fact is, we have numerous historic examples of folks who did first-class creative work while prisoners.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller try nao ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah. it doesn't fit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so it would follow that usg has a model recipe to follow.
asciilifeform: all it has to do is 'supply the chicken'
mircea_popescu: yes. the man who wants to make woman cheese has a recipe to follow :
mircea_popescu: whether this is workable or not is in the end their problem.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
xanthyos: woah wtf
thestringpuller: oh boy stuff is loading!
mircea_popescu: in the end the whole discussion neatly reduces to whether men are more like cows or more like mice.
mircea_popescu: xanthyos if you ever want to get a militant feminist rabid, tell her to stop bitching about dairy farm conditions, it's just patriarchy's dry run for her and her kind.
mircea_popescu: that usually keeps them for a good half hour.
hanbot: mircea_popescu: hanbot mail the man would you. << so emailed.
decimation: excellent!
decimation: asciilifeform: "supply chicken" << I get the general impression that the 'chicken' volunteers
decimation: I'm not really sure usg even knows how to 'supply'
decimation: as a gradually larger portion of the 'sane class' in the us begins to perceive usg as more of an enemy than a friend, I suspect the quality of 'chicken' will degrade further.
xanthyos: mircea_popescu: it's a shame you're not on twitter anymore with that content
mircea_popescu: decimation it is usually how it works in practice.
mircea_popescu: mind that the fact that it so works in practice is no actual proof.
mircea_popescu: for all we know, it is *possible* it dun happen this time. wink wink.
assbot: Video shows two men's confrontation with NSA recruiter at UNM |
decimation: I suspect that pre-snowden, this kind of thing rarely happened
asciilifeform: decimation: lol!!
asciilifeform: where is my nsa beating!?
decimation: another lol << "“We need to recruit from Snowden’s generation,” admitted former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden last July. “The challenge is how to recruit this talent while also protecting ourselves from the small fraction of the population that has this romantic attachment to absolute transparency at all costs.”"
assbot: How the NSA Recruits in a Post-Snowden World - The Daily Beast
asciilifeform watched, disappointed, no beating
undata: tut tut, hapless romantics
decimation: yeah the actual video is pretty lame
decimation: annoy the shit out of some gov't clerk, he lashes out, news at 11
asciilifeform: 'why did you choose to come and heckle a government agency, which is honestly trying to recruit?!'
decimation: asciilifeform: can you imagine a similar conversation at a soviet university at the kgb recruiting desk?
asciilifeform: decimation: can you picture a kgb recruiting desk?
asciilifeform: decimation: this is not how things worked.
decimation: exactly. Thus, the quality of chicken
mircea_popescu: "from the small fraction of the population that has this romantic attachment to absolute transparency at all costs." < < the sweetest sugar of etatism,
decimation: mircea_popescu: he doesn't even realize either
mircea_popescu: "that people who hate us, in principle, exactly for what we are, are a REALLY small fraction"
mircea_popescu: well, fatlogic.
asciilifeform: magic combo of hate + ability + balls, note. small fraction.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not what the man said.
undata: grrr... bad paste
decimation: although to be fair, I'm sure in his world as long as he has some poll that implies that 50% of usian support whatever he is planning to do, he would consider it 'legitimate'
undata: "Potter says he is still deciding if he will press charges for assault." << this is weak
asciilifeform: usg is an 'oderint, dum metuant' kinda thing.
mircea_popescu: decimation indeed, up until that point where i make a poll where 200mn vote for him to surgically attach a cow vagina on his forehead
mircea_popescu: sudenly the entire polling thing won't be as legitimate.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's nonsense. nobody fears it.
mircea_popescu: and nobody hates it, either. the usg is widely despised, and in some quarters reviled.
decimation: << hayden 'in the moment' << "And Michael Hayden goes home after briefing the president and the vice president about his ideas for expanding surveillance and takes a walk with his wife. ... "And when it gets public, it’s going to be very controversial. And the people doing it are going to be swept into this thing.” And
assbot: Transcript | United States of Secrets | FRONTLINE | PBS
decimation: she said, “Uh-huh. Is it the right thing to do?” “Yeah, I think so.” She said, “OK, we’ll deal with that when it comes.”"
mircea_popescu: what'd you want the woman to say.
decimation: I guess my point is, if you are looking for 'lizard hitler', here he is - a couple of high level derps decide they can 'get away with X' and convince themselves that 'it's the right thing'
mircea_popescu: this is not what would fill that costume.
mircea_popescu: in that it's neither a lizard nor hitler.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:54:02; assbot: Logged on 14-11-2014 22:24:42; asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.)
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: so anyone know this Khalahan Henkh fellow ? << anyone respond to this?
thestringpuller: i think i can get an inquiry with him
mircea_popescu: that's ok.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok, but they still have to be... you know, NOT wet pasta.
asciilifeform: tenure revokes itself, car bombs plant themselves, nailguns - fire themselves, of course. and single-engine airplanes go down regularly for no particular reason.
thestringpuller: ah. what did you want with the namecoin guy?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i wanted to see if anyone knows him. "can get an inquiry with" is the opposite of that.
thestringpuller: he's in wot you kno?
decimation: asciilifeform: if 'lizard hitler' is a physical entity, he's probably not working for usg
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust khal
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user khal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Tue May 10 13:27:55 2011
decimation: at least not as an employee
asciilifeform: employer.
mircea_popescu: decimation it'd be the big bad, by definition. it only exists conceptually to accomodate asciilifeform's rampant pareidolia :D
asciilifeform: at any rate, physical 'hitlers' are not a necessary hypothesis. ussr was perfectly capable of plugging a poor sod on a london bridge with poison umbrella, without competent leadership
asciilifeform: empire can commit any kind of elaborate crimes without leader. only thing it can't do without leader is - survive in long term
asciilifeform: but that's a separate puzzle
decimation: asciilifeform: the best explanation for that kind of thing would be some low-level derp with a hard-on for a particular agenda, who initiates - and the rest of the bureaucracy 'leads from behind'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you could say teh plugging with ricin episode was the result of competent kgb leadership neh ?
decimation: or the polonium?
mircea_popescu: o hey, beat at it again...
asciilifeform: competent leadership in one particular lab - yes
mircea_popescu: xanthyos what's tinychat ?
mircea_popescu: jurov: coinbr is getting 30k pingbacks/minute << did it do anything ?
mircea_popescu: xanthyos: i don't use keybase but my key was generated there <<< "your".
decimation: at any rate nailguns, cars, polonium, ricin, these smack of a weak sovereign, not a strong one. who asked anyone in the 'chinese government' before they did something in Shanghai circa 1920?
mircea_popescu: ;;google "can nobody rid me of this insolent priest"
gribble: Will No One Rid Me Of This Modified Noun-Phrase? | Josh Millard ...: <>; Pageant Post Cards: <>; Our Anglican Roots: St. Thomas Becket - Free Republic: <>
decimation: 'becket' was actually a decent movie
asciilifeform: public wetwork, chattering newspapers - weak king; private discreet beheading now and again - strong.
mircea_popescu: it's a much better play.
decimation: mircea_popescu: which play, the private beheading?
mircea_popescu: it's a joke i was hoping to get in the bash.
mircea_popescu: cause samuel, see.
asciilifeform: this is much like judging restaurant quality by inverse of count of mousetraps.
asciilifeform: at best, a one-way measure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more like, judging dentist by inverse count of loud screams on the premises ; plastic surgeon by inverse count of lawsuits.
mircea_popescu: knew a chick that did both, she had superb tits and splendid teeth.
asciilifeform: or let's try a degenerate case - hassan i sabbah
asciilifeform: governed entirely by dagger-in-the-night
asciilifeform: worked well enough.
asciilifeform: every little boy wants to be an intelligence chief; but every intelligence chief - wants to be hassan.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think you may be conflating things. guy a) lived on a mountain ; b) among an ethnically opressed majority that he supported ; c) against a technologically advanced foreign power.
mircea_popescu: the rest's just icing, much like saying "robin hood governed Sherwood County by arrow."
mircea_popescu: first off, sherwood was a ... wood.
xanthyos: mircea_popescu: tinychat is a badly coded insecure site where degenerates go on webcam to be codependent alcoholics and prey on underage girls
mircea_popescu: so basically social media
xanthyos: if you didn't want to play chess against birdman with that gui i doubt you'd want to load tinychat
asciilifeform: that film of the recruiter monkey parroting nsa verbiage was memorably pathetic
asciilifeform: what must it be like to be, literally, employed as human tape deck ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ask diana what's her name, the sec senior counsel chick.
mircea_popescu: heck, ask obama.
decimation: asciilifeform: all powers to say things are reserved to the top tier of usg
decimation: obama has to ask valarie jarret
mircea_popescu: decimation admire this funny : early frankish kings were physically weak in a world that had but contempt for weaklings. they saw a way out in hiring bodyguards, which was convenient. for charlemagne.
mircea_popescu: early us kings were intellectually weak, in world that had but contempt for weaklings. they saw a way out in hiring "pr", people to protect them from the deep waters of speech and thought.
mircea_popescu: which was convenient. for...
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
decimation: hehe yeah
decimation: we await our caesar
decimation: << " If her role in this administration reflected reality, Jarrett would be called “First Big Sister” to both Michelle and Barack. "
assbot: Fire Valerie Jarrett - Carol Felsenthal - POLITICO Magazine
decimation: I'm pretty sure obama just signs what he is told to sign and reads what he is told to read off the appropriate prompter
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 04:44:03; asciilifeform: 'At the 1980 Olympics, Brezhnev begins his speech. "O!"—applause. "O!"—an ovation. "O!!!"—the whole audience stands up and applauds. An aide comes running to the podium and whispers, "Leonid Ilyich, those are the Olympic logo rings, you don't need to read all of them!"'
assbot: Bill Ayers 'confesses' to writing Obama's memoir. He didn't, but his tease tells us a lot about America – Telegraph Blogs
decimation: the lady doth protest too much
asciilifeform: i once saw this man alive.
asciilifeform: was more or less exactly as i imagined.
decimation: who Ayers?
decimation: crazy hippie bomber?
asciilifeform: 'resistance through culture' as described in mircea_popescu's articles
decimation: yeah Obama is pretty much the peak achievement of that 'movement', I don't see much more upside for them
mircea_popescu is confused.
decimation: mircea_popescu: perhaps I'm wrong, but in the us there is a context of the 'hippie boomer' generation who are all 'retiring' now
decimation: obama is their wet dream, in the sense that they have finally overturned (superficiality) "the man's" institutions
asciilifeform: actually they all entered 'public life' long ago, as the most loathesomely loyal cocksuckers imaginable.
decimation: in 'public life', they were immediately schooled by fdr's sycophants who were exiting power at the time
decimation: this is one reason why usg is still fdr's usg (that and the fact that they and their friends razed the world in wwii)
thestringpuller: fdr's usg, but a lot more bankrupt.
mircea_popescu: well, not this, that.
asciilifeform: decimation: in wwii << after invention of nuke, they realized that much as they would love to repeat the performance again and again as necessary, might put their own arses in peril. so - settled for a slow and continuous version of this.
mircea_popescu: decimation let's be fair here : you're a freshman, there's 12 kids in senior year. eleven strip naked, pour gasoline over each other and set themselves ablaze. the 12th puts them out by running into them backwards then continues to run backwards into things for a week or so, until he's finally comatose and just spazzes quietly on the ground.
mircea_popescu: if those are your two choices, who do you vote most likely to succeed ?
decimation: good point
mircea_popescu: by practical standards, the us did really well in the 20th century.
decimation: sure, in terms of trade, production, etc
mircea_popescu: even in terms of... not... pouring gasoline on own head and lighting it. twice.
decimation: << lol, this kind of bellyaching over.. systemd?
thestringpuller: doesn't surprise me after discussions here...
decimation: "Everyone is conservative about what he knows best. " << Conquest's first law of politics
mircea_popescu: decimation one of the most interesting aspects of systemd is the irrationality of the proponents. it's almost as if you're discussing theology with the flat earth society or geophysics with the global warming cult of washington dc.
mircea_popescu: technologically it's about as notable as windows notepad, but sociologically... wow, ze goldmine.
mircea_popescu: "Today, now, before the results are announced, we have an opportunity to extend compassion and empathy and remind ourselves of the spirit in which we'd like to work together." << lmao fuck that.
mircea_popescu: who wants to work in an environment of "compassion" ? what are these people, retards ?
decimation: yeah, if anything this is a loud bell ringing to anyone 'sane': "these people are crazy, now's the time to exit!"
mircea_popescu: "I'm hoping that we can all take a few minutes to gain empathy for those who disagree with us." << derping about "empathy" -> straight to the uranium mines.
mircea_popescu: "Then I'm hoping we can use that understanding to
mircea_popescu: reassure them that they are valued and respected and their concerns
mircea_popescu: considered even when we end up strongly disagreeing with them or valuing
mircea_popescu: different things."
mircea_popescu: i mewan look at that hollow, empty bullshit.
mircea_popescu: "oh, so you want to wear pants ? fuck you, you're wearing a skirt.
mircea_popescu: aaaaaaaaaaaaand, you're valued and respected. bitch."
mircea_popescu: this is the ultimate theft, these people are trying to introduce into the world. they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow,
mircea_popescu: but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from"
mircea_popescu: to steal a concept, what a riotous approach.
decimation: I don't think any future historian will fail to notice the parallels between this and usg's way of doing business
mircea_popescu: who is this fuckface ayway ?
mircea_popescu: the kerberos guy ? uh.
mircea_popescu: i dunno if i'm the only one privy to the history of that protocol ?
mircea_popescu: perhaps an instructive case study as to how usg protocol confiscation works in the field.
decimation: I think kerberos came from mit right?
decimation: sam hartman is some developer I guess, but somehow has 'influence'
mircea_popescu: decimation kerberos was developed by mit in the 80s. a gutted export version was created. as the usg was going to (again) change its export restriction in 2000,
mircea_popescu: the gutted thing was reimplemented by some nordic country university
mircea_popescu: then a few years later windows migrated to "kerberos" as its primary security protocol
decimation: it's still a nightmare to deploy to this day, for sure
decimation: indeed it did
mircea_popescu: sam hartman is a 30something nobody, roughly speaking a debian gmaxwell
mircea_popescu: except he's not fat, he's blind.
decimation: in fact one of the supposed prime 'benefits' of redhat enterprise is that it can 'hook up to' a windows active directory server which acts as an ldap/krb ticket server
mircea_popescu: im completely unclear as to why the fuck usg wants the "one computer system" so badly anyway.
thestringpuller: ;;isup
gribble: is down
thestringpuller: ;;isup
gribble: is down
decimation: mircea_popescu: the simplest answer is probably because usg is full of hartmans and gmaxwells
thestringpuller: decimation: what about jgarzik's?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller myeah. bbs.
mircea_popescu: fuckign to-feeling arguments in THE MOTHERFUCKING DEBIAN LISTS.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing to save here. just burn the entire stack where it stands an' that's that.
joecool: apt-get purge feelings
mircea_popescu: no but srsly, that letter is an exact summary of everything that's wrong with the english language space.
mircea_popescu: There isn't a right answer. As Russ has explained a number of times in the TC, on debian-vote and on his blog, this is about tradeoffs. I'm sure some people will be happy if the project's values are aligned with theirs. When they take that as far as saying the project made the "right decision" or rejected "bad options," they are not valuing the contributions of those who disagreed with them.
mircea_popescu: i mean check it out. "there's no wrong thing" now.
mircea_popescu: the point of discussion is not to discover the wrong alternatives, or the right alternatives.
mircea_popescu: the point of discussion is to suck each other off
mircea_popescu: and then driveby's have the unmitigated audacity to discuss #b-a cult-ness. how do you like that!
mircea_popescu: five fucking centuries of european intellectual heritate, which is the exactly ONLY reason the US even exists in the first place, down the drain. "We wanna be africans now. Hold hands."
mircea_popescu: let's fucking "value each other's" banana peels and sing koombaya.
mats_cd03 sings softly
thestringpuller joins in singing
mircea_popescu: anyway, seems to me clear teh usg-debian believes it got the votes
mircea_popescu: someone should make a bitbet about it, i'd throw a few cents.
asciilifeform: insult to perfectly adequate monkeys, who fight and occasionally settle matters in their monkey bands
mats_cd03: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah well, at some point im gotta have to insult some unfortunate bystanding trashbag or something, or else collapse into A = A circularity.
mats_cd03: poor guy. cut outta the fold after bein' a regular for... what was it, a year plus?
mircea_popescu: "boy that sam h sounds just like a sam h"
mats_cd03: gotta loosen up on the mad ravings my good man
asciilifeform: debian compassion << cthonian horrors of the eldritch depths.
thestringpuller: sometimes the ravings of a madman is wisdom, other times just noise.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform have you ever seen something this idiotic ?
decimation: it is a neat little experiment in 'infinite democracy'
mircea_popescu: i mean, the "other speeds more important to us" thing is nowhere near.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only mr. spam comes close
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually this connects to the thread from earlier today re: patterns of speech.
thestringpuller: ;;seen cazalla
gribble: cazalla was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 4 hours, 46 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <cazalla> i guess ddos is back :\
asciilifeform: kerberos << among the many deliberately complex edifices of the u.s. department of wintel.
asciilifeform: a 'mouse farm' (in the sense of my article 'don't blame the mice')
asciilifeform: of course, anyone with even a spitting familiarity with software crud world knows that lizard hitler does not need to order these into existence - they happen naturally
asciilifeform: if you simply gather enough filth in one place
asciilifeform: and let it go
thestringpuller: My University uses Kerberos everywhere for logging in.
asciilifeform: compare with, e.g., 'gribble auth'
asciilifeform: a sausage and a turd are rather different, even if both cylindrical and both given shape by a piece of gut
mircea_popescu: lol nice one.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, it's not just "gather enough filth in one place"
mircea_popescu: it's moreover "make cleanning illegal"
asciilifeform: well yes, how else will it stay gathered.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow, but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from" << usg (and the 'enlightenment') in one sentence.
mircea_popescu: pretty much
mircea_popescu: they figure they thus improved on the soviets,
asciilifeform: 'we rape you but wait we didn't because you are not a you, one cannot rape furniture'
mircea_popescu: which merely took the cow, and the voice under duress
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform think about how the cock felt!11
mircea_popescu: if you were a cock - which you obviously are not bwahhhaha i need a minute here lmao - if you were a cock
mircea_popescu: wouldn't you want some tight ass too ? so then ?
decimation: 'we voted and this is the best course of action'
mircea_popescu: "have some empathy for the people who want to take a shit on the collected effort of the people you happen to respect! they're people too!"
mircea_popescu: except this'd be th every definition of not being people. if they were people they'd do something else for a living.
asciilifeform: we may not like the cancer cell, but it 'works'. debian - dead.
asciilifeform: resquiat in pace.
decimation: do something else < which is why debian is now dead, as ascii wrote
decimation: redhat is going down the same tube, in the long run
asciilifeform: the cancer will spread to wherever it can
asciilifeform: doesn't need an objective, or a plan
mircea_popescu: THEM. not fucking me jesus christ.
mircea_popescu: when some kid is annoying you don't pick up and leave, you punch him in the nose.
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your
nubbins`: but with debian dead, where do i turn
mircea_popescu: i propose in this case "not participation" is punching some blind twerp right in the face.
asciilifeform: if folks understood 'do not meet the enemy halfway' we would never have even heard of systemd.
asciilifeform: as such, you have to surgically remove its metastases even from a fresh 'gentoo'
asciilifeform: and if you forget to flip a switch - there it will be, staring right in your face
nubbins`: o.O osx comes with a python script that merges pdf files
decimation: lol I thought 'preview' did that
nubbins`: yeah, but you gotta do it one at a time that way
nubbins`: here i say -o merged.pdf *.pdf
asciilifeform: !s teaching the controversy
assbot: 1 results for 'teaching the controversy' :
nubbins`: and by the time i explain why this is better, i've got an 800mb merged.pdf waiting for me
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:47:05; asciilifeform: once you've been 'taught the controversy' - that is, convincing that there -even is- reasonable debate among informed people, on a particular subject - the lie becomes a kind of half-truth, automagically
assbot: Logged on 12-09-2014 16:47:19; asciilifeform: because suddenly, there is (or you think there is) a debate. with 'sides.'
asciilifeform: ^ re: how the cancer rolls.
asciilifeform: what's more, this follows inescapably from any situation, anywhere, where someone gets to 'score nonzero points' merely for showing up.
asciilifeform: all you have to do, then, is to pile on the meat puppets, until suddenly there is a 'controversy', and there are 'points of view', and eventually - a 'consensus.'
mircea_popescu: top - 23:51:11 up 15 min, 2 users, load average: 5153.36, 3287.44, 1431.04
mircea_popescu: anyone ever seen better ?
nubbins`: dat load
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in fairness, there's a lot of value to teaching the controversy.
mircea_popescu: it just has to be a controversy between actual people.
asciilifeform: the phrase is a term of art from u.s. propaganda schools.
asciilifeform: being the first step of a recipe for convincing folks of something that would otherwise be readily apparent as lunacy
mircea_popescu: it is, true.
asciilifeform: see also, related, 'fear, uncertainty, and doubt.'
mircea_popescu: i have this baby in bathwater obsession, myself. "teaching the controversy" is just americanized, which is to say, "cut into bits and rubbed in shit" hegelian dialectics.
asciilifeform: well yes.
decimation: proto-marxism?
mircea_popescu: ymmv, but to my eyes it's perfectly good science.
mircea_popescu: (hegel's, that is)
thestringpuller: ;;isup
gribble: is down
nubbins`: ooo i shouldn't have used the wifi connection to send this print job
asciilifeform: at the very least, perfectly good chumpatronic engineering.
nubbins`: why!
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