Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-08-18 | 2014-08-20 → ↓
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 322 @ 0.00260683 = 0.8394 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17279 @ 0.00070644 = 12.2066 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up diatonic
BingoBoingo: !up shovel_boss
BingoBoingo: !up Guest43995
BingoBoingo: !up aegis
TheNewDeal: shovel boss!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.29266666 = 0.878 BTC [+] {3}
TheNewDeal: !up usagi
usagi: Hi thanks~
TheNewDeal: 30 minutes, we'll see about that assbot
usagi: TheNewDeal yesterday you said I told you I was insuring people (kakobrekla) against glbse defaults. I didn't say that, kako's contract was for pirate
usagi: But a lot of the contracts had NDA's at the customer's request so I don't usually talk about particulars
TheNewDeal: not only that, anduck said it today as well
usagi: Anduck's contract was separate from kakobreklas. I think you can understand that.
usagi: Do you run a business in the community, TND?
usagi: Or are you just watching :)
TheNewDeal: yes, it's called Don't Feed the Scammers
TheNewDeal: it's doing smashingly well
usagi: Ahh, just an investor I see
TheNewDeal: why do you ask?
usagi: Dunno, looking for investment options I guess
usagi: There isn't much available right now. I've been chatting with you recently. thought I'd ask
TheNewDeal: i've got a good offer for you
usagi: Yes?
TheNewDeal: it's called purchasing my bitbets
usagi: Yeah I made a little on bitbet, I should probably take a look at that site again soon
usagi: There are some issues with the site tho, which discourage me from betting
TheNewDeal: your choice
TheNewDeal: regardless
TheNewDeal: I'm in the business of scouting out good bets and reselling them
usagi: Oh? That sounds interesting
usagi: Actually I'll go take a look at the site now
usagi: it's been a while
TheNewDeal: site hasn't change much, merely the bets
usagi: The berkshire bet does not inspire confidence :p
usagi: But I'm still looking
usagi: http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ This bet pays about 1.4% per month, and if im wrong, I still win
assbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD :: 75 B (11%) on Yes, 595.49 B (89%) on No | closing in 3 months 1 day| weight: 25`962 (100`000 to 1)
TheNewDeal: doesn't inspire confidence? how so
usagi: TheNewDeal; it contains subjective terms open to post-interpretation
usagi: might toss something on the $10k bet
TheNewDeal: there's a 5k bet as well
TheNewDeal: no includes default of btc e
usagi: I should have been looking at that bet 8 months ago heh
usagi: But it would have had to have a much larger payout, this might be the sweet spot for the $10k bet
TheNewDeal: the thing about the 10k bet is
TheNewDeal: still very profitable for a high btc individual to bet as well
TheNewDeal: for instance, someone with 100 btc could reap a 3.8 % return
Vexual: ;;goxlag
gribble: Error: "goxlag" is not a valid command.
Vexual 9 months
RagnarDanneskjol: ha - keep refreshing, it might come back
Vexual: kenilworth did their emi
Vexual: not sure if cause of efect, but they also renewed their exploration permits
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00070521 = 12.3412 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: and...if.. they used the btc right, theres money left to drill
Vexual: kenilworth is actually looking better than it ever haz
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.29 = 0.58 BTC [-]
Vexual: although, my tote had em at a pretty fucking longshot
assbot: TerraHash shuts down, bitcoin miners upset with 50% refund
Vexual: owing paypal:bitcoin fail
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00070511 = 13.9612 BTC [-]
assbot: Did Margin Trading Crash the Price of Bitcoin?
Vexual: cfderp
Vexual: cfdita
Vexual: whats next?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5300 @ 0.00101484 = 5.3787 BTC [-] {18}
assbot: usagi +v failed; L1: 0, L2: -5
BingoBoingo: !up usagi
usagi: I didn't know the terrahash failure was so spectacular
usagi: I guess terra is finally dead then.
usagi: get it? deadterra? yuk yuk
usagi: I warned him about getting in with the wrong crowd. Guess he didn't know who his friends were
ben_vulpes: Vexual ping
pankkake: Vexual bong
Vexual: ohai
ben_vulpes: Vexual: what's that pic from?
Vexual: its from twitter :)
Vexual: its a girl going to or from mt sinai or whatevr is called
ben_vulpes: cutie id like to meat
assbot: Linux Kernel Git Repositories Add 2-Factor Authentication | Linux.com
Vexual: the one in persia
Vexual: !up usagi
Vexual: twoup
Vexual: etymlogical root of "the pennies drop"
Vexual: also "what goes up must come down"
xmj: alright, so I found this:
assbot: Is Monsanto The New Cannabis Supplier In Town? AnonHQ
xmj: Soon we'll have GMO cannabis on the cheap, all the hipsters and Nassim Taleb will bitch about it
xmj: and I'll chucklingly watch.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20800 @ 0.0000525 = 1.092 BTC [+]
Vexual: roundup resistant ganja? i think someones trolling
Vexual: perhaps they will change their modus operendi and make a version that grows in africa easily without pesticides
Vexual: wait...
Vexual: agent orange resistant coca perhaps?
xmj: Vexual: sickness-defying GMO'd opium potty
Vexual: potty?
xmj: whatever the plant you make opium from
xmj: eh poppy
Vexual: ah
Naphex: poppy seeds?
Naphex: ;o
Vexual: its prolly hard to usefully gm an o where the o has been selectively bred for so many generations, unless you include a new selection criteria
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6836 @ 0.0007054 = 4.8221 BTC [+]
Vexual: theyve made high yeilding maize and shit
Vexual: and monsanto has prolly fed a lot of people
Vexual: but mapping genomes is about as advanced as blockchain.info taint analysis
Vexual: just a little bit shitter than their mixing service
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 371 @ 0.00362281 = 1.3441 BTC [-] {6}
pankkake: ;;ticker --market bcent --currency eur
gribble: Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR ticker | Best bid: 370.0, Best ask: 373.99999, Bid-ask spread: 3.99999, Last trade: 370.0, 24 hour volume: 150.20365524, 24 hour low: 340.0, 24 hour high: 370.0, 24 hour vwap: 354.3870935
xmj: Vexual: Monsanto strikes the hypocritical white progressives as bad due to their feeding people.
xmj: it's an example of market forces at work without redistribution; of course they don't like that.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 11138 @ 0.000053 = 0.5903 BTC [+]
Vexual: i think you are right, but many of the biggest ethical questions arise where dna meets patent law
Vexual: and that is a whole other level
Vexual: personally, i prefer a popescuist view; he who can send owns
Vexual: ;;timetonext
gribble: 32832.0
Vexual: ;;calc 32832/360
gribble: 91.2
Vexual: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 23761047900.1 based on data since last change | 25481337320.0 based on data for last three days
Vexual: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 487.19, Best ask: 488.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.81000, Last trade: 487.19, 24 hour volume: 31400.25076534, 24 hour low: 442.0, 24 hour high: 493.0, 24 hour vwap: 499.397297578
assbot: Essays in quantitative analysis of the effects of market imperfections on asset returns
Vexual: care to offer a quick dissertation Ragnar?
RagnarDanneskjol: be moar vigilant with teh monies
Vexual: be moar vincent nega
Vexual: example
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45177 @ 0.00070526 = 31.8615 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2023 @ 0.00070455 = 1.4253 BTC [-]
Vexual: did you read it rygar?
RagnarDanneskjol: "Financial assets prices are not always in perfect equi- librium and deviate from their fundamental values. The dramatic rise and fall of the stock market raises concern about the rationality of sudden changes in stock valu- ations. The mispricing of assets contributes to financial crises, which can damage the overall economy. This dissertation analyses the effect of market imperfections
RagnarDanneskjol: at different time horizons." - I only got through the first essay. " Financial assets prices are not always in perfect equi- librium and deviate from their fundamental values. The dramatic rise and fall of the stock market raises concern about the rationality of sudden changes in stock valu- ations. The mispricing of assets contributes to financial crises, which can damage the overall
RagnarDanneskjol: economy. This dissertation analyses the effect of market imperfections at different time horizons.""
RagnarDanneskjol: its relatively comprehensible cf. to a lot of academic financial dissertations I come across. I learn more about bitcoin from these sources than i would any "analyst" in the btc space
Vexual: what of me?
Vexual: if i might
RagnarDanneskjol: pls clarify
Vexual: well i tought i might give an example of some concepts i garner from that collectionfor your further thought
RagnarDanneskjol: go right ahead, I just lurk here
Vexual: i was hoping this analysis might be interactive
Naphex: :))
RagnarDanneskjol: afraid I cant be too interactive tonight - I'm kinda in the middle of a few things and terribly behind schedule
Vexual: ive only read the abstract
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 150 @ 0.012715 = 1.9073 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: raiding france for mayonnaise?
Vexual: its egg and vinegar
Vexual: Hi duffer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1961 @ 0.00081 = 1.5884 BTC [+] {2}
Duffer1: oh hey man
Duffer1: my stomach isn't a basketball anymore
Vexual: i assume thats a good thing
Duffer1: appendectomy last week, i was pretty swollen
Vexual: did you die?
Duffer1: nope, i got very lucky, it ruptured, but didn't get infected
Vexual: fuck
Vexual: you must gave some pain tolerence to burst
Vexual: can i kick you in the nuts?
Duffer1: it was quite painful, and i refused pain meds until the ct scan results came back and the dr said "your appendix is all messed up, we're transfering you to a different hospital, ambulance is en route, take pain meds now"
Vexual: and youre all like meah wait till i finish this blunt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 163 @ 0.00375092 = 0.6114 BTC [+] {4}
Vexual: can't keep a good man down
Duffer1: ^.^
Vexual: its good youre not dead
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 25 @ 0.02523161 = 0.6308 BTC [-]
Duffer1: i appreciate that, i'm glad i'm not dead too :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00070493 = 11.1026 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3078 @ 0.00109954 = 3.3844 BTC [+] {4}
jurov: hi nubbins`
nubbins`: i see charlie shrem is selling a lot of casascius coins on the forums these days
nubbins`: i find myself questioning the wisdom of buying them :0
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 43 @ 0.0127999 = 0.5504 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: nubbins`: you around for a bit?
thestringpuller: what do you charge for shirts?
thestringpuller: setup fee + etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 20 @ 0.02523161 = 0.5046 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00070455 = 2.7477 BTC [-]
TomServo: ;;later tell ben_vulpes The OTC link on your page still points to benkay's OTC profile.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
TomServo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski On "Who are we? Not nationals." footnote i.: s/self-refertiality/self-referentiality
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00070454 = 7.8204 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00070633 = 13.279 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: The Gyroscopes in Your Phone Could Let Apps Eavesdrop on Conversations | Threat Level | WIRED
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.78092363 BTC for No on "1BTC >= $10,000 USD" http://bitbet.us/bet/635/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 672.27919187 BTC. Current weight: 25,860.
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "1BTC >= $10,000 USD" http://bitbet.us/bet/635/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 682.27919187 BTC. Current weight: 25,859.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 250 @ 0.00467089 = 1.1677 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 210 @ 0.00269829 = 0.5666 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10560 @ 0.00070641 = 7.4597 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 485.42, Best ask: 486.98, Bid-ask spread: 1.56000, Last trade: 487.36, 24 hour volume: 19861.58716992, 24 hour low: 453.01, 24 hour high: 493.0, 24 hour vwap: 472.817569834
mircea_popescu: dude i leave for a day and where is the two digit bitcoin!
mike_c: i think the sale is almost over
jurov: hi mircea
jurov: btw i thought the DERP is not finished yet as F.DERP is not listed and only two derivatives
jurov: so i did no advertising yet
jurov: what's the situation there?
mircea_popescu: jurov well sitll planning to have it online this month.
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah i imagine tomorrow will be teh day of mourning for teh would be manipulateurs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1750 @ 0.00070794 = 1.2389 BTC [+]
nubbins`: thestringpuller it's around $60-65 before i'll even pick up a squeegee
thestringpuller: nubbins`: can you elaborate?
thestringpuller: like 60-65 per shirt?
thestringpuller: or 60-65 one time fee?
nubbins`: oh, no, 60-65 for shirt number one
thestringpuller: okay then what is it per shirt after that?
nubbins`: depends on a few factors, anywhere from 6-12-ish
nubbins`: type of shirt, total quantity, number of colors, whether i think you'll be a repeat customer, whether you've ever hit on my wife, whether the artwork is ready, etc
assbot: Whatever happened to Bitcoin? (Hint: nothing good) - NASDAQ.com
mike_c: ^ don't tell whoever added 37 PH/s over the last two weeks. they'll be pissed.
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 477.7, Best ask: 479.96, Bid-ask spread: 2.26000, Last trade: 480.0, 24 hour volume: 20189.94635126, 24 hour low: 453.01, 24 hour high: 493.0, 24 hour vwap: 473.16123994
ben_vulpes: TomServo: got it, thanks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 12.14387328 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1056 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.79894304 BTC to 14`116 shares, 12744 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00070439 = 1.5497 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mike_c novusordo : the comments in that article is priceless
thestringpuller: "I wish I had a bitcoin for every one of these bitcoins is dead articles I've read over the past year and a half."
thestringpuller: wait i do!
mike_c: heh
TheNewDeal: that's a lot of bitcoin
thestringpuller: or i haven't read a lot of bitcoin is dead articles
TheNewDeal: ahhh true
thestringpuller: ;;gpginfo
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
thestringpuller: ;;keyinfo
gribble: Error: "keyinfo" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "gpg" is not a valid command.
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust thestringpuller
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user thestringpuller: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 10 via 10 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=thestringpuller | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thestringpuller | Rated since: Mon Oct 15 18:46:37 (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11001 @ 0.00070424 = 7.7473 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'nubbins`', with hostmask 'nubbins`!~leel@stjhnf0157w-142163082159.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nl.bellaliant.net', is identified as user 'nubbins`', with GPG key id CF2950F23C844002, key fingerprint 5015BD3D0AE659C8B8632F31CF2950F23C844002, and bitcoin address None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37698 @ 0.0007035 = 26.5205 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: nubbins`: was trying to find a direct link to my key
assbot: Be Careful Seals Users: Coinbase has blocked me because of gambling (x-post from /r/sealswithclubs) : poker
thestringpuller: nubbins`: whether you've ever hit my wife << ??? this has happened?!?!?
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
thestringpuller: ;;eregister
gribble: (eregister <nick> <keyid>) -- Register your GPG identity, associating GPG key <keyid> with <nick>. <keyid> is a 16 digit key id, with or without the '0x' prefix. We look on servers listed in 'plugins.GPG.keyservers' config. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. Your passphrase (1 more message)
thestringpuller: ^-- tylander
gribble: will expire in 10 minutes.
gribble: What do you think I am, a shell?
thestringpuller: ;;google something something darkside
gribble: Something, Something, Something, Dark Side - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something,_Something,_Something,_Dark_Side>; Family guy Emperor something something..... - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8>; "Family Guy" Something, Something, Something, Dark Side (TV ...: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1329665/>
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 550 @ 0.00104055 = 0.5723 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: !up tylander
tylander: ;;eregister nick D40DAE000726DA10
gribble: Error: Username already registered. Try a different username.
tylander: ;;eregister tylander D40DAE000726DA10
gribble: Request successful for user tylander, hostmask tylander!~tylander@71-14-6-178.static.gwnt.ga.charter.com. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/D40DAE000726DA10
tylander: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:19d3db6508f756400711a3a327477025318798cdec657a0889201262
gribble: Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user tylander with key D40DAE000726DA10
thestringpuller: ;;rate tylander 4 real life coworker; greatest intern alive
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user tylander has been recorded.
kakobrekla: !s armory phone home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00070471 = 11.0639 BTC [+] {2}
tylander: !up tylander
kakobrekla: you are as high as it goes.
thestringpuller: tylander /msg assbot !up
thestringpuller: he's on the 30 minute timer
thestringpuller: @ kakobrekla
TheNewDeal: I wish I was that high
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2547 @ 0.00070473 = 1.7949 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5017 @ 0.00070593 = 3.5417 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.00070565 = 0.9879 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 250 @ 0.00464219 = 1.1605 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 220 @ 0.00468908 = 1.0316 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: thestringpuller: hit *on* my wife.
nubbins`: but, now that i think of it, there's also a hefty surcharge if you've ever hit my wife
thestringpuller: Oh. Is the "hit on my wife" fee waived for mircea_popescu ?
nubbins`: not too many people in that particular category tho
nubbins`: thestringpuller, mp has not yet hit on my wife
nubbins`: but anyway, yeah, sliding scale
nubbins`: more info = more useful quote
thestringpuller: one color, black shirt, 6-12 shirts
thestringpuller: ~ medium
thestringpuller: graphic is done just need "printer's specs"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8897 @ 0.00070565 = 6.2782 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 137 @ 0.01299801 = 1.7807 BTC [+] {8}
nubbins`: 6 @ $18ea, 12 @ $13ea
nubbins`: cheap gildan shirts, $2 less
nubbins`: american apparels, $1.50 more
nubbins`: shipping not included :D
TheNewDeal: slanging some t-shirts nubbins` ?
nubbins`: prolly not, but who knows :D
thestringpuller: very possibly
thestringpuller: okay so 50 for setup fees
thestringpuller: is that per screen?
nubbins`: eh, not exactly. setup involves a few different things
nubbins`: extra colors are a flat $15 screen burning fee plus $0.85 per shirt
thestringpuller: okay so the first shirt it always 65?
nubbins`: always and forever
thestringpuller: or is that a deposit?
nubbins`: total
thestringpuller: first shirt ever? or first shirt for that line
nubbins`: i uh
nubbins`: you're making this so complicated :D
thestringpuller: :D dats meeee
thestringpuller: I gots lotsa questions
nubbins`: no kidding :D
TheNewDeal: do you have any finished products? can I see an example
nubbins`: nobody wants just one shirt, so it's kind of silly to give you prices based on that
nubbins`: much more sensible to quote for a reasonably-sized order
TheNewDeal: 65$ for one shirt?!!? what kind of scam is this?!!?
nubbins`: TheNewDeal, facebook.com/pinkeye, pinkeyeprints.com, etc
thestringpuller: i'm trying to see if it's 65 + 13 * (shirt number)
nubbins`: TheNewDeal: call a local screenprint shop, ask for one shirt, see what they say
thestringpuller: or 13 * shirt number + setup fee + ink fees
thestringpuller: just tryin to understand the fee schedule
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.65 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 1446.16 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00070583 = 10.658 BTC [+] {2}
TheNewDeal: I only see books and zines
nubbins`: 50+(15*C)+(N*7)+(N*0.85*C) where C is number of colors/prints and N is number of shirts
nubbins`: TheNewDeal: FB has more pictures of custom shirts etc
TheNewDeal: there we go
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 198333.42 in 1890 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -89.44
thestringpuller: nubbins`: cool!
thestringpuller: nubbins`: what is shipping ~ 15?
nubbins`: not sure offhand, depends on size of order
nubbins`: 5-10 per shirt maybe
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Apple stock to close at over $100 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/956/ Odds: 97(Y):3(N) by coin, 96(Y):4(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.5013 BTC. Current weight: 68,215.
thestringpuller: very possibly doable
thestringpuller: we'll try you out for a set of shirts see if we can move it
nubbins`: 50% up-front, remainder + shipping due on delivery.. you know where to find me :D
thestringpuller: :D nubbins` is such a nice artist
nubbins`: oh you
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.28007 = 0.8402 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.27152519 = 4.3444 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.27050118 = 0.541 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.27 = 2.43 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.27000999 = 2.7001 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 65 @ 0.02523161 = 1.6401 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4523 @ 0.00070593 = 3.1929 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 41 @ 0.01291 = 0.5293 BTC [+] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1.4 BTC for Yes on "Apple stock to close at over $100 in 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/956/ Odds: 98(Y):2(N) by coin, 97(Y):3(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.9013 BTC. Current weight: 68,187.
TheNewDeal: last minute dive?
kakobrekla: ;;seen davout
gribble: davout was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <davout> ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#791960 <<< interesting
TheNewDeal: I've been locked up in that damn apple bet for almost a month yet
fluffypony: davout has died?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 38 @ 0.022 = 0.836 BTC
thestringpuller: wait davout is actually dead?
thestringpuller: figure of speech
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19778 @ 0.00070476 = 13.9387 BTC [-] {4}
FabianB: so blockr has been aquired by coinbase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7004 @ 0.00070341 = 4.9267 BTC [-]
fluffypony: FabianB: yesterday's news :-P
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 495 @ 0.001041 = 0.5153 BTC [+]
FabianB: heh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00070291 = 7.8726 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00070212 = 5.7925 BTC [-] {2}
TheNewDeal: liking that comic fluffypony
assbot: Whatever happened to Bitcoin? (Hint: nothing good) - NASDAQ.com
TheNewDeal: What happened to the NASDAQ? Answer: it's being propped up on stilts
mircea_popescu: dats raycus
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.0007019 = 2.3865 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 50 @ 0.01255309 = 0.6277 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ << wouldja look at that, weekly active user count over avg last week for the first time in like half a year.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11505 @ 0.00070144 = 8.0701 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: so you can only miss the chance to sell 10k 3 times or something? << that was going the other way.
kakobrekla: i kno.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker.
gribble: Error: "ticker." is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 487.96, Best ask: 488.41, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 488.4, 24 hour volume: 18059.81647100, 24 hour low: 453.01, 24 hour high: 493.98, 24 hour vwap: 479.000378688
mircea_popescu: the problem being that going the other way is a) unduly expensive and b) shockingly ineffectual.
mircea_popescu: but i guess i was giving the bright financial minds on the other side of the tug rope undue credit for being absolutely intelligent so as to know.
mircea_popescu: or mebbe some knew but the group as a whole got desperate enough.
mircea_popescu: i won't know for a while yet, so ah well.
TheNewDeal: mircea_popescu: http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/ << wouldja look at that, weekly active user count over avg last week for the first time in like half a year. <<< usagi has been firing up all his old names?
assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats
mircea_popescu: lol doubt it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00070291 = 4.6744 BTC [+]
TheNewDeal: so what are you saying about buying 10k? you only have a few chances to do it before the price skyrockets up or what?
ThickAsThieves: http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/08/tesla-motors-inc-accused-of-organized-crime/ lol, either these guys are running out of ways to make the price move... or Musk is an OG
assbot: Tesla Motors Inc Accused Of "Organized Crime"
fluffypony: he's South African, of course he's an OG
ThickAsThieves: lets use "quotes" on words for no reason
ThickAsThieves: i guess they might be quoting a person
asciilifeform: 'Lithium ion batteries blog up if they get wet or bumped.'
asciilifeform asks his batteries if they blog.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu got the skill level eulora prize too, here is proof and the address at the end, thank you http://www.dianacoman.com/2014/08/20/making-my-eulorian-cake-and-eating-it/
assbot: Making My Eulorian Cake and Eating It in Ossasepia
asciilifeform doesn't quite grasp why hatchet jobs are necessary against electromobiles - they do a fine job sucking on their own
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23464 @ 0.00070128 = 16.4548 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16722 @ 0.00070309 = 11.7571 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Reddit, Twitch, and Imgur have created a research partnership called DERP | The Verge
fluffypony: mircea_popescu should sue
thestringpuller: fluffypony: hahaha! of course he is OG.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.28912058 = 0.8674 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fluffypony lol
assbot: Who Are We? Not Nationals | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
mircea_popescu: do we have any reason to suspect bitcoin will bring about by and large more prosperous societies in the sense of people affording better friends ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: or say, go and fix RuBisCO, world's most inefficient enzyme << it's not its fault! hard fucking shit!
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller what's og ?
thestringpuller: original gangsta
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OG | Famouse Tatooists Mr. Cartoon is a straight-up muthafuck'in OG! 2. O G. O G means original gangsta those tru gangstas from way back in the day that jacked ya ...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: DERP << still waiting for some muppet to start a company selling bottled piss or the like, and labeled 'bitcoin'
mircea_popescu: im kinda waiting for the twinks to get bored of being irrelevant, get upset and threaten to sue everyone else for using their invention.
mircea_popescu: destroy land/wealth equivalency << this is gone , actually, which is why i rent.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to fully visualize the logical conclusion of that gedankenexperiment, picture if one could subsist entirely on the output of a 'desktop garden' under a fluorescent lamp.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as you accept bitcoin as a desktop garden under a lcd backed monitor, one can, does.
mircea_popescu: you mean if everyone ? but everyone never could.
asciilifeform: well, everyone with the necessary apparatus.
asciilifeform: just like sailors on a nuke sub never need to surface for air - only for food/ammunition/parts
asciilifeform: (electrolytic cell, sea water)
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : the diesel sub is making a major comeback
mircea_popescu: apparently much easier to make it silent, whereas the nuke ones can not
asciilifeform: silent on battery.
mircea_popescu: more importantly (and somewhat secretly) : they're one man subs.
mircea_popescu: robotics and computers are now advanced enough.
asciilifeform: and the 'two airplanes theorem' (what can two planes do, that one, regardless of how spiffy, cannot? be in two places.)
mircea_popescu: think about that solipsist heaven. a one man diesel attack sub.
asciilifeform: midget subs are 1930s state of the art.
mircea_popescu: but these are not so midget-y.
asciilifeform: and, who doesn't love the japanese 'Kaiten.'
asciilifeform: ;;google kaiten submarine
gribble: Kaiten - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiten>; Human torpedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_torpedo>; Kaiten-class | Nihon Kaigun - Imperial Japanese Navy Page: <http://combinedfleet.com/ships/kaiten>
mircea_popescu: they're actually pretty fully featured.
mircea_popescu: so what if ben_vulpes has it his way and by say 2050 most people that are people actually live in one ?
asciilifeform: generally, you want two men (one sleeps)
mircea_popescu: the sub having replaced the car that replaced the knight's horse
mircea_popescu: making orlof a sort of low tech early pioneer in the right direction.
asciilifeform: the familiar 'water planet' scenario, yes.
mircea_popescu: leaving the landspace to be inhabited by the proles, toiling in the mines and sub factories under the carcinogenic sun
asciilifeform: we could be there already, but somehow it appears that most people don't like the sea very much.
asciilifeform can't imagine why
mircea_popescu: it's not that familiar to me, i'm a sf noob/ignoramus :D
asciilifeform: 'Defined in these terms, when you move onto a floating pole somewhere in the ocean, the first effect on your freedom is a massive decline. You have sworn fealty to King Neptune. Neptune accepts your service, as he has accepted so many before you. His court is glorious, his riches are infinite, his territory is vast. But Neptune is a stern and capricious lord. To live at sea, you need not just love liberty. You n
asciilifeform: eed to love the sea. Spend a little time with Moitessier, Slocum, and the like; read this fine collection, and possibly this (pretty much all of Jonathan Raban's books are good); etc, etc. Yes, I'm aware that seasteading is not yachting. I'm aware that no one intends to take their floating poles around Cape Horn. But you are still at sea, and a subject of Neptune you remain.'
assbot: Page not found
mircea_popescu: !up tylander
mircea_popescu: well, lettuce see. the submarine is submerged. it does not care about "weather" in either fluid sense. with the new fleshlights and tumblr pr0nz... i defy you to find a bunch of 20somethings whose current life would be differen if they were subbed.
asciilifeform: a non-nuke sub spends 90+% of time on the surface.
asciilifeform: (given current battery tech, this is unlikely to change)
mircea_popescu: this is a tech problem.
asciilifeform: the same kind of tech problem as the absence of pocket laser pistol.
asciilifeform: batteries.
mircea_popescu: tell you what : a current car spends 90% of time in the garage. fu that.
mircea_popescu: let there be electric recharge stations on the ocean floor.
mircea_popescu: if they can do it with the teslas it has impact.
asciilifeform: or, as with one proposed electromobile, battery swap couriers.
mircea_popescu: in any case : international waters are international waters
mircea_popescu: and im not sure who can afford to piss off a nation of submarineers, but it wouldn't be the us.
mircea_popescu: what with its super vulnerable carriers and errything.
mircea_popescu: so composed out of thermal electro plant, battery recharge stations and a fleet of subs...
mircea_popescu: geothermal*
asciilifeform: when the last u.s. boat hits the bottom, the scrapyards, or the chinese auction block - we'll find out whether the 'seastead' folks are serious.
kuzetsa: oosp, I spelled rp0nz wrong
kuzetsa: oh for fucks sake
mircea_popescu: dude... srlsly ?!
mircea_popescu: people fuck icecream-colored cartoon characters ?
kuzetsa: rule34
asciilifeform: people would fuck their own severed heads if they could.
kuzetsa: ^ yes, they would
mircea_popescu: the cunts aren't even identical holy hell.
asciilifeform: probably being '3d printed' to order even as we speak.
mircea_popescu: so who's the deep purple one in the middle ?
mircea_popescu: only actual slut in the bunch.
asciilifeform had occasion to go to a local electronics store a few days ago, '3d printers' were displayed right next to ordinary ones.
nubbins`: mp the floating one w/ the rainbow hair is probably the most represented in cosplay etc
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: the size of the folds of ones labia is not directly proportional to sexual activity, but only differs with natural variation from person to person... your logic is invalid for calling that slutty... or is this just your headcanon for that particular pony? in which case, I agree, she's awful
mircea_popescu: kuzetsa how much cunt have you seen so far ?
mircea_popescu: in square meters i mean.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: we accept your offer
thestringpuller: we'll sign da papers tomorrow!
asciilifeform: in square meters << must specify, folded or denatured.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: lovely
mircea_popescu: either way.
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: I've seen quite a lot, but even if that wasn't the case, the sex ed programs here don't promote fallacious negative images about people's sexuality because of genital shape
mircea_popescu: i couldn't begin to give less of a shit about what sex "ed" programs say there, wherever that is.
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see a psa "ed" effort that was accurate in details.
nubbins`: how about the marijuana supports terr.. oh, wait
thestringpuller: nubbins`: it's just one color. white on black.
kuzetsa: colleges have sex ed and related programs too, not just primary schools
mircea_popescu: yeah, made by the same people, with the same political aggenda, and with the same utter ignorance and disrespect for observable reality.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: easy peasy
mircea_popescu: something being asserted by a state sponsored "ed" program of any kind is more a predictor of the something being wrong than right.
nubbins`: once in sixth grade, our teacher made us draw cocks for homework
nubbins`: these were put on the classroom bulletin board for the next few weeks
asciilifeform: this applies just as easily to the nominally 'proper' education (average peon has very little use for, e.g. arithmetic)
mod6: nubbins`: no wai?!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at lulzranch : carnivores having well developed teeth is in no way a predictor of their preference in eating meat over say photosynthesis.
mircea_popescu: so said animal ed!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00070326 = 3.3405 BTC [+]
kuzetsa: uhm
nubbins`: mod6 nod
nubbins`: she was a strange woman
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no cunts tho ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, nope
mod6: lol
mircea_popescu: now wtf sense does that make ?
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: fwiw she used to grind her vulva on the corners of desks when helping students
mircea_popescu: see, a teacher like that'd have never survived in mp's school.
mircea_popescu: too easy to bully.
mircea_popescu: people'd have been sticking cunt drawings on her back for the rest of her life.
nubbins`: not sure if this was autoerotic or candida
asciilifeform: nubbins`: teacher had no pockets? or, no hands ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.00070349 = 22.9338 BTC [+] {2}
kuzetsa: asciilifeform: women's clothing tends not to have many pockets :(
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform teacher rubbing vulva on corners is no indication of an absence of hands, pockets or brain.
asciilifeform: today she'd own one of those radio-controlled insertables.
mircea_popescu: kuzetsa indeed, and ironically i suspect it's exactly for this reason.
kuzetsa: eww
mircea_popescu: no, srsly. controlling masturbation in little girls was much more a priority in victorian england that in teh case of boys
kuzetsa: no, I know
kuzetsa: that's why I said eww
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: a historical annoyance, for all forms of state, is that folks can, in general, grow food without asking it permission first. <<< this brings to mind the ridiculous "permit to assemble" device.
mircea_popescu: "yes you may gather together to overthrow the state, just as long as you get an approval form stamped by said state"
decimation: re: luxury submarines: http://www.ussubmarines.com/ << supposedly can stay submerged for at least a week going 2 knots
assbot: U.S. SUBMARINES
asciilifeform: there's two basic types of 'permission' - one where you can, without permission, but might catch some lead; and one where you actually can't ('promise vs. protocol')
mircea_popescu: decimation i tell you, if the tesla experiment works out we're going to see subs.
decimation: note that if you want go at any reasonable speed you must be on the surface, as ascii said
decimation: undersea charging is interesting
decimation: batteries still suck though
asciilifeform: you can charge inductively under the sea, but parasitic currents are a drag
mircea_popescu: there's nothing to do submerged anyway. the only real reason to move is abvout the same as getting new ips, ie, avoid the enemy.
mircea_popescu: for this reason, 2 knots is fine.
asciilifeform: (sea water conducts)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i imagine some sort of copulatory connection will be standard.
asciilifeform: might want to wait for 'SOSUS' to finish falling apart before setting sail on microsubs
decimation: heh yeah that's a good point ascii
mircea_popescu: it's not currently able to handle massed targets well. this is, and has been, long known documented weakness
mircea_popescu: handwaved as "well if there's too many subs to track then that says all we wanted to know anyway rite ?"
asciilifeform: interesting fact, i think we might have spoken of it before - usg claims extraterritorial jurisdiction over... all ships.
mircea_popescu: so does any pirate. what of it ? claim is one thing.
asciilifeform: fix RuBisCO, from its current ~2% efficiency to something like 50+ - and now you needn't the massive resupply points that make fat targets.
asciilifeform: for the 1000 ships tactic, the vessels must be properly autonomous
decimation: asciilifeform: usg opts to allow the russian navy to exist in international waters: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/pentagon-russian-spy-ship-tug-operating-near-u-s/
assbot: Pentagon: Russian Spy Ship, Tug Operating Near U.S. | Washington Free Beacon
mircea_popescu: a war is won by a) making fat targets that b) the enemy tries to take out but c) fails.
decimation: said Lt. Col. Tom Crosson, a Pentagon spokesman. ?We respect the freedom of all nations, as reflected in international law, to operate military vessels beyond the territorial seas of other nations.?
asciilifeform: decimation: or recall the chinese sub that test-fired ballistic rockets off the california coast recently.
asciilifeform: ^ beautiful example of u.s. media hush campaign. vanished entirely from nearly everywhere within days of first mention.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure it's in the sub ed in colleges everywhere.
mircea_popescu: or maybe not.
assbot: Air Force Space Surveillance System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: Due to resource constraints caused by sequestration, Air Force Space Command officials have directed the 21st Space Wing to prepare to discontinue operations at the Air Force Space Surveillance System by Oct. 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: eventual goal, for the state, is an endgame where you can't grow your own potato in secret any more than you can produce your own 14nm cpu. << eventual endgame, for the utopian socialist/nazist state, as for any utopian/figment of imagination, is human relevancy.
mircea_popescu: this is an unattainable goal for fundamental reasons.
decimation: the "space fence", transmitter blasted nearly 1 megawatt skyward to 'ping' off satellites
mircea_popescu: yet lucifer still doth try to fly.
asciilifeform wonders when ocean fiber reamplifiers will begin to include a few kg of trotyl with motion fuse, for meddlesome buggers
decimation: re: gov't control: witness the usg attempting to "control" "guns"
asciilifeform: unattainable goal << their modus operandi is to cripple people in any available way, to inject 'relevancy.' no reason to think this won't continue with better tech.
decimation: "if we can't bring everyone up to your level then we will tear you down"
mircea_popescu: of course it will continue. it will continue not to work lol.
mircea_popescu: obviously a car without an engine will continue to be a car without an engine for as long as hills and people willing to push can be found.
asciilifeform: decimation: ground-based gizmo obsoleted by orbital spybots
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4044 @ 0.00070482 = 2.8503 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the folks pushing the 'urban' ('totalitarian', etc, pick favourite term) << these seriously aren't equivalent.
asciilifeform: (how many of the latter still work - a different question)
assbot: Space Based Space Surveillance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: the hayseeds imagine the urban despisement of their simpletonism is the same as the utopian hatred of their self sufficiency.
mircea_popescu: this is untrue, it only looks similar because they're too far away.
asciilifeform: are these entirely separable?
mircea_popescu: i would say so, yes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12856 @ 0.00070723 = 9.0921 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: (as to the other point, the orbital spybots are a crapshot. earth based antenna is obv the right approach to the problem)
asciilifeform: if we actually get the tech for rural non-simpletonism (keep own pigs -and- bake own 14nm cores) - we'll learn
decimation: it seems to me that the self sufficiency is more threatening to the omni-state
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: why did the rulers of ussr, china, etc. push so aggressively for mechanized agriculture? to free the plow-pullers from their toil so they can watch opera? << for efficiency.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is impossible to have rural nonsimpletonism also for fundamental reasons.
asciilifeform: 'efficiency' - 'takes function arguments.' efficiency at what, for whom.
mircea_popescu: you ever seen l'uomo delle stelle ?
decimation: most of the actual farmers I have met in the us are people - they can machine, weld, assemble own parts from scrap
mircea_popescu: you absolutely muyst see this film. the italian renaissance is important particularly because they peddle such exceptionaly clear, deep reaching intuitions.
mircea_popescu: now allow me to quote from my own recensy :
decimation: but they are a minority even in rural areas
asciilifeform: decimation: they can machine, weld, assemble own parts from scrap << sure. but can they build so much as a kalash round with own hands, to the required tolerances?
decimation: I would go with yes, many of them load their own ammo
asciilifeform: reload.
decimation: certainly peasants in pakistan can perform that feat
asciilifeform: decimation: nope.
mircea_popescu: meh i can't find where i said it. anyway, in that film, which is predicated on the notion that an urbanite goes in the rural other world (he's a fraudulent film talent scout, cinecita was a big deal in post war italy).
asciilifeform: they merely have access to seemingly-inexhaustible old war spoils
mircea_popescu: he is incredibly popular with the worms, for the obvious reason : a shot at their idea of a better life.
mircea_popescu: one of the worms in question is a shepherd. he says, 1950ish : "con le stelle se puo parlare".
mircea_popescu: fuckwit discovering the ancient sources of greek philosophy by hand on his own, two milenina late.
mircea_popescu: this is the reason you broadly cabn't have intelligent rural people : too contemplative, by the nature of what rural means.
asciilifeform always supposed that it was because they cannot have proper 'division of labour'
mircea_popescu: it's because they don't get the incentive or the opportunity to use a large swath of the brain.
mircea_popescu: think, the rural noob in town has been the lol of the town's margins anywhere anytime, pick a society. coincidence ?
mircea_popescu: i think not.
mircea_popescu: to put it in the terms of the anonimity as urban/rural dispute article : the rural guy can run software without ever needing a garbage collector, because no program ever covers memory.
mircea_popescu: now this may be just fine and dandy "for some applications", but it's not a computer.
decimation: places like silicon valley were started by rural folk from the midwest, founded fairchild & invented modern transistors and IC's
mircea_popescu: decimation mind, i'm not arguing the people themselves are broken.
asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item. Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
mircea_popescu: but the environment is unconducive.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform probably related problem, tho those are usually hunters.
decimation: well, there's no doubt that they had to come to the city to meet the son of IBM founder to get money to start the operation
mircea_popescu: decimation not just money.
asciilifeform: decimation: philo farnsworth invented the raster scan while plowing a field. there's always a weirdo exception.
mircea_popescu: people who have to come to b-a to start a successful operation don't need just the money, or even the money at all.
decimation: most of them worked in big east coast corporations for several years first, true
mircea_popescu: and again, the idea that there's something wrong with the people involved is patent nonsense. kids come from the vilage to town and do better than kids born in town all the time.
mircea_popescu: but the environment doth not allow specific things.
asciilifeform 'east cost corporations' << had the distinct impression that most of the people here never had to walk the u.s. большая зона
nubbins` gets the vague sense that gribs could use a !translate plugin
asciilifeform: !s большая зона
assbot: S.T.A.L.K.E.R. #1 [ ] - YouTube
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
asciilifeform: there we go.
assbot: Traitorous eight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: is this the chinese thing ?
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Noyce "In the summer of 1940, at the age of 12, he built a boy-sized aircraft with his brother, which they used to fly from the roof of the Grinnell College stables. "
assbot: Robert Noyce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00070723 = 1.7681 BTC [+]
decimation: obviously if Mr. Noyce had stayed in Iowa he would have been an advanced farmer, not the founder of modern semiconductor business
asciilifeform: in modern usa, noyce would rot in own juices in a psychiatric ward.
decimation: quite possibly yes
asciilifeform: (or derp on 'reddit')
mircea_popescu: shockley is perhaps the best example of totally nutso master running his harem straight into a wall.
mircea_popescu: prolly a good case study
asciilifeform: howard hughes (around same time)
asciilifeform: not an uncommon pattern
decimation: fortunately they had the sense to follow noyce into the middle of nowhere and start a new business
mircea_popescu: at least hughes was not a boring stolid "social improvement" type.
mircea_popescu: from experience girls will forget flamboyant failure much easier than boring drudgery.
asciilifeform: shockley did, if i recall, hit upon the idea of building a sperm bank to.. hand out own sperm
mircea_popescu: wasn't he the guy who overengineered a diode while neglecting transistors to the point nobody could afford it ?
decimation: yeah he basically said "forget about the transistor, really complicated diodes are the future"
asciilifeform: 'Shockley was the only one to publicly acknowledge his donation to the sperm bank.' (pediwikia)
decimation: that was pretty much when noyce et. al. bailed
asciilifeform: diode logic is a complete logic, incidentally.
assbot: Shockley diode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: (so it isn't entirely clear that he was wrong)
decimation: no, but apparently after he got his Nobel prize he became an insufferable ass
mircea_popescu: decimation this is a particular sort of methodological error strategists of the "too clean" variety make. the error is to imagine that what's in question is whether the new thing is promising (positive) rather than broken (negative). fact is any new thing that isn't broken will probably outperform any current thing simply because business is about growth.
asciilifeform: like many successful/creative types, he had a 'red dwarf phase' of life
mircea_popescu: and by too clean i mean the sort that doesn't bareback random whores because "who knows what may happen"
asciilifeform: !s simulated annealing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was this where i was disagreeing with locklin's similar idiocy ?
asciilifeform: possibly
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
asciilifeform: ^ old discussion of why china failed to technoclobber europe
asciilifeform: (too 'cold' in the simulated annealing sense. i.e., not psychotic enough.)
decimation: the problem is that with something like computing, it's "somewhat broken"
mircea_popescu: where is the locklin one. basically his thesis was that "printed guns will never work because the barrel isn't sexy"
asciilifeform: hans eysenck's 'psychoticism'
decimation: the broken-ness becomes a negative externality that is distributed randomly
mircea_popescu: decimation well if there weren't problems...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah i see what you mean. i took it literally :D
asciilifeform: as i recall, locklin's observation was that 'printed' gun is a technowankerous curio, vastly inferior to an aggregation of discarded plumbing parts and a rusty nail
mircea_popescu: which it is. and yet... the discussion isn't whether it looks promising (in the terms of today)
mircea_popescu: somewhat vaguely related : the nbc producers that decided to greenlight seinfeld, the largest grossing production in the history of nbc and the thing that even made sitcoms a thing
asciilifeform: speaking of which, time for today's 'sovietism.' not one english-speaking fellow i've met seemed to know, that you can machine arbitrarily hard metals with no cutting elements (no noise, no wear, no need for massive ballscrews or slides, etc.)
asciilifeform: electrolytically.
mircea_popescu: are on the record stating something like "well these two idiots came in, one a complete nobody , the other a dork, but we figured... whatever, it's just a script, we've not spent that much money on it"
asciilifeform: this was perfected in ussr, and the only vendor of electrolytic mills (which could trivially 'etch' small - or large - arms of whatever kind, on a desktop) is still russian.
asciilifeform: it was a response to the nato embargo on selling 6-axis milling machines to the sovblok.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is it expensive to do ?
asciilifeform: expensive but only in electrical current.
asciilifeform: in materials, pauper-cheap.
mircea_popescu: hehe. "build a nuclear plant you're done"
asciilifeform: no need for exotic cutters or quality slides
asciilifeform: and the hardness of the material being cut doesn't matter at all - so long as it conducts.
decimation: you can achieve good tolerances too
asciilifeform: also scales down. (but no one, afaik, has scaled it.)
mircea_popescu: can you make a tungsten carbide shooter ?
asciilifeform: if you're fine with waiting a year for the, e.g., pistol, draw 1 amp instead of 1000.
asciilifeform: tungsten carbide is brittle. but - yes, trivially.
decimation: I wish 'maker' derps would build machining devices rather than plastic molders
asciilifeform: decimation: they do.
mircea_popescu: decimation consumer society loves plastic. it'd shove it in its collective vagina if it could.
asciilifeform: is diametric awake?
asciilifeform: he owns a cnc mill, the size of a tv set.
asciilifeform: (but he's a thinking man; no idea what 'maker derps' do)
decimation: yeah I guess cnc mill counts for that
mircea_popescu: you know one of you two needs to get a real name thing going. it's so fucking difficult for me to keep diametric and decimation apart in my head.
decimation: or cnc lathe
asciilifeform is satisfied with conventional lathe. but milling is another matter
decimation: heh perhaps I should pick an orthogonal basis
asciilifeform: point of the above unfinished tale is, most of the difficulty of machining as a field revolves around the unwanted sequelae of having to cut metal with metal.
asciilifeform: (or with a 'knife' in the general sense)
decimation: you mean dealing with broken bits, shavings, heat etc?
asciilifeform: and annealing.
asciilifeform: it is more or less impossible to anneal (and, opposite, harden) all but the smallest objects in 'jungle conditions'
mircea_popescu: the friction heat'd be the problem
asciilifeform: 'work hardening', yes
asciilifeform: you cut, and the metal in that place is now hardenes.
asciilifeform: *hardened
asciilifeform: have to take the piece out of the machine, anneal (soften) it, re-mount, re-align...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually one should be able to anneal in jungle conditions. put gun on rock, put lens on gun around 7am. by early morning next...
asciilifeform: need even heat and specific 'curve.'
mircea_popescu: but the sun heat is even.
decimation: what about plasma cutter? wouldn't that heat while cutting?
asciilifeform: yes, you can build an oven 'archimedes'-style
mircea_popescu: something like that yea.
asciilifeform: plasma cutter is generally a 2d affair.
mircea_popescu: decimation you familiar with adiabatic as a concept ?
mircea_popescu: "too fast for meaningful heat exchange"
decimation: yeah that makes sense, too little mass in contact
asciilifeform: outside of the russian world, electrolytic machining only caught on in 2d - this is how circuit boards are made. (photographic etching)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc plasma cutting is 2d for a very similar reason : too damned expensive.
mircea_popescu: there is some 3d ablative tech sort-of similar, but mostly limited to medicinal use
decimation: well water-jet cutting is up there too
asciilifeform: heat deforms.
asciilifeform: this is a bitch if you actually care about 3d geometry
midnightmagic: where's rapatan when you need him
TheNewDeal: water-jet ... that's what I do!
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal srsly ?
decimation: waterjet is pretty cool, but it has its own "sequelae", not fit for pauper-tech
TheNewDeal: yah. I just set em up
TheNewDeal: they cut out granite, marble, and man-made stone for the most part. I've heard some people cut steel with em
TheNewDeal: counter-tops that is
assbot: ('chemistry and life') 1990, vol. 1, pp. 83 - Imgur
asciilifeform: ^ posted for your pleasure
asciilifeform: for those who don't know russian, the photo should suffice.
asciilifeform: how to drill a hole without a drill.
TheNewDeal: they're CNC machines though, so you can do some cool in-lay stuff with em though http://imgur.com/Botjoww I did that with a guy in chicago
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: reprint of a 1973 article in same.
asciilifeform: gears are routinely cut with waterjet, or plasma torch, or electric arc (not to be confused with electrolytic) machine.
asciilifeform: but none of these are pauperizable.
asciilifeform: and they all require skill.
decimation: asciilifeform: why do all of these machines continue to use "g-code"?
asciilifeform: article suggests a useful 'household' application for the demo - poke a hole in a hardened steel knife where the handle fell off, to bolt on new handle.
asciilifeform: try this with an ordinary drill! (without annealing to destroy knife's temper)
asciilifeform: decimation: g-code << it's just simple coordinate motions, with some commands to specify tool changes, splines, etc. what would you have them use?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal pretty cool.
TheNewDeal: pauperizable? a monkey could run this machine
asciilifeform: but could a monkey purchase it.
mircea_popescu: !up Bitcoin1011
TheNewDeal: a monkey with a cool 250k
TheNewDeal: thats funny money, not bitcoin
TheNewDeal: decimation - yes g-code is used
decimation: asciilifeform: something turing-complete?
TheNewDeal: we draw all the programs out with software called alphacam , our company adds on a toolbar that automatically generates the g-code, then you literally just upload it to the machine and hit go
mircea_popescu: i always was kinda fascinated by gem inlay/cutting.
mircea_popescu: maybe when i retire i make myself a lab.
Bitcoin1011: Hi guys and girls, I'm looking for an android app developer with Bitcoin protocol experience, can anyone direct me?
asciilifeform: turing-complete << this brings up another interesting observation - none of today's machine tools give the computer any feedback, beyond slide end-stop sensors
asciilifeform: (even those are often absent from small machines)
asciilifeform: the computer has no idea what, if anything, was actually cut - and hwo
mircea_popescu: Bitcoin1011 maybe RagnarDanneskjol when he wakes up.
asciilifeform: an electrolytic mill could, conceivably, know how much metal was actually removed at time 't'
mircea_popescu: but for that matter, so am i, the kids with the apps haven't yet discovered bitcoin pays better.
asciilifeform: (current flow sensor, and, if clever, modulated current, exploit 'skin effect')
decimation: asciilifeform: that's an interesting point
Bitcoin1011: thank you
asciilifeform: i bring up electrolytic machining to explore a point - that tech meant for 'jungle conditions' is a very different field from what is presently dealt with by 'sane' engineers.
Bitcoin1011: Is he involved in other mobile apps in the space for my reference?
decimation: for conductive metals you could measure resistance of liquid
asciilifeform: the '3d printer' folks are still, by and large, thinking like 'normal' engineers.
asciilifeform: e.g., their only public suggestion thus far for metalwork is laser sintering - cribbed straight from ordinary industry
TheNewDeal: believing they can accomplish everything with one shitty machine?
asciilifeform: sintering is only used in 'real life', generally, when there is no other choice (ceramics, and metals that really don't behave well in a mill like tungsten)
decimation: to me the obvious use for plastic turd is to make molds for metal pouring
decimation: I think titanium falls in that category sometimes too
asciilifeform: Ti is pyrophoric but machineable if you must.
decimation: but the process of melting and pouring most metals in jungle conditions is not very reliable
asciilifeform: chairman mao's backyard furnaces, yes.
asciilifeform: 'homo redditicus' will not be casting, machining, water-jetting, or lasering cannon.
asciilifeform: but he might etch them.
asciilifeform: (now that we helpfully pointed out how.)
decimation: re: laser sintering: it seems to me that it is likely that you are going to leave "air bubbles" in the resulting metal, since you are melting piecemeal
asciilifeform: not merely likely, but certain.
asciilifeform: but the crystal structure disruption is the bigger deal there.
decimation: you are making "metal stew" instead of smooth puree
asciilifeform: correct.
decimation: http://www.materialsviews.com/making-titanium-cheaper-hydrogen-sintering/ "To achieve high density and low oxygen titanium powder is typically sintered in high vacuum."
assbot: Making Titanium Cheaper: Hydrogen Sintering
decimation: thus negating the low cost benefit
TheNewDeal: what the hell do you all mean jungle conditions?
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: resources available to an average person of modest means and lukewarm enthusiasm
TheNewDeal: I could get you a waterjet... but it may just be a super-soaker with a paint job
decimation: even if you had a free high-quality waterjet, one would have program, get water+abrasive, monitor cut closely, maintain jet machine
decimation: none of which are going to be cheap or simple
assbot: Tech Visionary George Gilder: "Bitcoin is the Libertarian Solution to the Money Enigma." - Reason.com
decimation: it's obvious that there's a segment of silicon valley circus that sees bitcoin as a way to exit from usg
TheNewDeal: I just don't get why they think it's all about some party
TheNewDeal: It's not libertarian - anybody can use it
decimation: TheNewDeal: libertarians are going to claim whatever success they think they are aligned with, for facebook likes.
TheNewDeal: ^laughs
assbot: ('chemistry and life') 1990, vol. 1, pp. 83 - Imgur
asciilifeform: ^ now with english translation!
decimation: my uncle was a research chemist (retired) at a large chemical firm in rural us. he was always complaining about the low quality of "chemists" who graduate from us schools
asciilifeform: decimation: aside from the unremarkable decay across the board of all things u.s., there is a specific phenomenon at work on chemists. in most u.s. schools, they do not actually teach chemistry. instead, they carry out an eleborate 'hazing ritual' for would-be med school applicants.
asciilifeform: the students are asked to simply memorize the book of, e.g, organic reactions.
asciilifeform: with little-to-none attention to principles
asciilifeform did a 'second tour of duty' in undergrad ochem, as adult. and saw this alive.
decimation: this is because of the relative high status of a doctor compared to a chemist actually working in a big chemical corporation
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asciilifeform: decimation: they could have, in principle, decreed two sets of chemistry courses, one for med-muppetry, one for would-be chemists. but this did not happen.
asciilifeform: * 'second tour of duty' in undergrad --- ochem << missing punctuation matters
decimation: it is interesting how the us status hierarchy (bureaucrats on top, producers of things on bottom) has all kinds of distorting effects -- all of which is funded by the distortion of bezzle money
asciilifeform: when and where did 'producers' inhabit anywhere but the 'bottom' ?
asciilifeform: big chemical corporation:
asciilifeform: ;;google "call in the lab nigger"
assbot: chem, Contracting Chemist - legal issues
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31550 @ 0.00070595 = 22.2727 BTC [-]
assbot: How the Other Half Works: an Adventure in the Low Status of Software Engineers | Michael O. Church
decimation: managing stuff is always going to be lower status than managing humans, for obvious reasons
asciilifeform: decimation: trivially true by mere definition.
decimation: nevertheless, as mircea_popescu points out, business is about growth, and growth is about knowing how to manage stuff
asciilifeform: required reading:
decimation: lol. apparently some monkeys recognize the usefulness of the code monkey
TheNewDeal: Quote from Tech Visionary George Glider "satoshi's worth a million bucks!"
peterl: ping fluffypony
asciilifeform: decimation: usefulness - and malleability.
TheNewDeal: actually he may have said billion
asciilifeform: (summary of paper: monkey is taught to solve a puzzle which unlocks a dispenser of tasty food. is placed in a cage of 'uneducated' monkeys. is then reliably beaten into dispensing the food for the 'bosses.')
decimation: this is roughly the deal most "managers of stuff" find themselves in: we will pretend you are a normal human as long as you give us stuff
asciilifeform: incidentally, for anyone who actually wants to try electrochemical machining, here is how NOT to do it:
assbot: Electrochemical Machining - RepRapWiki
asciilifeform: these unfortunates, who, one can surmise, don't know russian, neglected the detail that one must pump the electrolyte.
asciilifeform: the moving 'cutter' must be a nozzle where only a small area of liquid contacts the place to be cut.
asciilifeform: on account of your electrolyte being, by definition, conductive - you can pump it electrohydrodynamically.
asciilifeform: the funny thing is - they appear to understand exactly why the naive approach results in a putrid mess instead of the desired cut.
asciilifeform: but never made the obvious conclusion.
TheNewDeal: surprised by everyone's knowledge or machining/etc in here.
TheNewDeal: I have only read the first few lines, but what's this one on http://trilema.com/2014/the-most-serene-republic-and-its-laws/ ?
assbot: The Most Serene Republic, and its laws. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
decimation: TheNewDeal: you mean the Shakespeare play?
TheNewDeal: it's just a trilema article written like shakespeare, no?
decimation: no I'm pretty sure it's a direct quote from the merchant of venice
assbot: ECM for the thick - Imgur
asciilifeform: ^ for the thick
asciilifeform: if clever, emplace a magnetic field of the appropriate geometry around the fluid intake/return channels, so it is propelled entirely electrically. if even more clever, emplace a system in the reservoir to re-separate the metal from the electrolyte.
decimation: asciilifeform: to be clear, you want to restrict the contact area of the "working liquid" to keep from ruining the whole sample, right?
asciilifeform: corret.
asciilifeform: alternatively, use a clever electrolyte that is only an electrolyte where illuminated by a laser.
decimation: so I was going to ask about photo-etching
asciilifeform: photo-etching is century-old SOP.
asciilifeform: but strictly 2d.
asciilifeform: standard op. proc.
TheNewDeal: that's what I was thinking...
asciilifeform: every circuit board you own was created that way.
TheNewDeal: I've worked in manufacturing envirorments for a few years now, was quite familiar with that acronym but didn't think you were using it for some reason
asciilifeform: (unless you're a weirdo with a cnc mill and a very fine bit)
decimation: well, and silicon die too, more or less
decimation: it is odd that the process you are proposing is very similar to existing precision volume manufacturing yet has no "buy-in" from industry
asciilifeform: because it has piss-poor ROI in ordinary industry (unless you're the ussr)
asciilifeform: but for desktop machining - perfect. so long as you aren't in a hurry.
asciilifeform: prominently missing from the napkin sketch is a number of necessaries (means for cooling the electrolyte, scrubbing metal out of it, positioning of the head, etc)
asciilifeform: but should be clear to the alert reader that such things cannot be overlooked.
asciilifeform: you must also vent (or burn) the H and the O
asciilifeform: don't do it in your living room.
asciilifeform: 'this has been a production of Orcish Science for the Human Experimentalist (TM). Hope you enjoyed the show.'
asciilifeform: 'check out our other installments, such as Balanced Trinary Computing and Electrically Induced REM Sleep.'
asciilifeform: 'all source code in REFAL, available on magnetized wire.'
decimation: REFAL?
asciilifeform: !s refal
asciilifeform: think 'lisp-like forth' or 'forth-like lisp' but that doesn't really cover it.
decimation: heh. when I was young I taught myself programming with "user RPN" on HP calculator
decimation: "user RPL" that is
decimation: which in retrospect is basically lisp I guess
asciilifeform was sometimes allowed to borrow one of these: http://rk86.com/frolov/mk61-5.jpg
decimation: heh was that an hp knockoff?
asciilifeform: not exactly
asciilifeform: it was its own animal.
asciilifeform: even had microcode bugs that were 'useful'
decimation: original hp48 looked like it was styled in east germany: http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-48GX/HP-48GPlus-M.JPG I loved the clicky "tic-tac" keyboard
asciilifeform: when you borked it, it would display this:
assbot: Lurkmore
asciilifeform: and we always wondered what an 'EGGOG' was.
TheNewDeal: something really bad obviously
TheNewDeal: similar to eggnog
decimation: asciilifeform: have you studied Greek, since Cyril gave you the same typography?
asciilifeform: not other than superficially.
asciilifeform: for some reason folks who lived in latinate script all their life are obsessed with typography
asciilifeform: as if it were ever the 'hard part'
decimation: heh yeah it's pretty easy to memorize another alphabet, it's much harder to remember grammar & vocabulary
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asciilifeform: poor englishfolk don't even have character encoding in-jokes - e.g. http://lurkmore.to/%D0%91%D0%9D%D0%9E%D0%9F%D0%9D%D0%AF
assbot: Lurkmore
asciilifeform: (bad encoding settings often result in hilariously-pronounceable garbage, some of which entered circulation as euphemism and otherwise)
decimation: «оепейкчвх акъ йндхпнбйс!»
decimation: unfortunately the encoding jokes don't translate on google
kakobrekla: satisfying log. keep up the good work.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 817 @ 0.00119767 = 0.9785 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: lol I didn't realize that there was a controversy about how to spell "Ukraine" in Cyrillic http://lurkmore.to/В/на
assbot: / Lurkmore
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