Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-08-15 | 2014-08-17 → ↓
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 315850 | Current Difficulty: 1.9729645940577133E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 316511 | Next Difficulty In: 661 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 22 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23348390265.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.34166
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00072323 = 12.8373 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,diff
gribble: Error: "bc,diff" is not a valid command.
Blazedout419: mircea_popescu you just rent and point them where you want
mircea_popescu: ;;nethash
gribble: 167538378.251
Blazedout419: they have a web interface to add pools etc..
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 129090.06 in 1979 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.13
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133E10 * 1878190.93
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35801 @ 0.00072733 = 26.0391 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133 * 10 **10 * 1878190.93
gribble: 1594904761117739088609280
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 167538378.251 / 1.9729645940577133 / 10 **10 * 1878190.93
gribble: 15949.0476112
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 73 @ 0.01284889 = 0.938 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: so like 16th for atc ? srsly ?!
Blazedout419 51%s it
Blazedout419: Can ATC be merge mined?
Blazedout419: that is probably the best route for it
decimation: wow almost 20% diff change
mircea_popescu: it got raped.
decimation: some environmental concern troll should write a blog about how asic mining will make the blockchain green, because it will be more thermally efficient
mircea_popescu: i look forward to the day random derps all over the us can't afford internet derpage anymore because bitcoin competition has made electricity too expensive.
decimation: heh. what they don't 'fairly' compare is the cost of transacting business in usd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, why would anyone mine in usa
decimation: in some states the electric rates might be competitive, but then you pays your taxes...
decimation: I know a guy who was mining in hawaii with $0.3 kWh rates
asciilifeform: why build what will later be confiscated, nationalized.
decimation: maybe you think you can 'time' the arrival of the NKVD
asciilifeform: if 'wisdom is getting on the train one day before everybody else' (TM) - folly is 'trying to get on the train exactly one day before everybody else.'
asciilifeform: re: user interface << a 'clean ui' doesn't mean what people often think it means. e.g. a lathe has three knobs. what could be simpler. and yet.
decimation: hopefully we can be on the same gasenwagen to the sharashka then ascii :)
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I think of moldbug's post on hubristic user interfaces when I think of bad UI
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19897 @ 0.00072951 = 14.5151 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: there are at least as many ways for bad ui as for bad food
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 14 minutes and 24 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9507 @ 0.00073062 = 6.946 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22591 @ 0.00073141 = 16.5233 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1873 @ 0.00073169 = 1.3705 BTC [+]
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.18 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.36 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
atcbot: 1 minutes and 25 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.00073331 = 39.2321 BTC [+] {2}
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 117934.75 in 1978 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.72
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.83 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00073341 = 6.8941 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Blazedout419: I guess this rent a rig can work
Blazedout419: Indeed it works well
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.39 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
Blazedout419: wow all the 50TH are rented now
Blazedout419: we about to see 200TH?!?!
BingoBoingo: I dunno, I only rented 1.4
BingoBoingo: And only for 8.5 hours
Blazedout419: someone rented a lot
BingoBoingo: But where is it pointed?
Blazedout419: I need to move my miners and rent them out...pays a lot more
Blazedout419: BingoBoingo no idea..people love to speculate
BingoBoingo: WHY is this pool paying me change when my hash is finding blocks!!! Mining is a scam!!!
BingoBoingo: Am I paying off ancient debts this pool owes to its loyal miners and all of their 0.03 Terahash?
decimation: yeah all of those miners except one would lose the tenant money (mining bitcoin) ... one wonders if there are 'other motivations' to mine...
BingoBoingo: Mining already has me feeling dirty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20809 @ 0.00073218 = 15.2359 BTC [-] {3}
decimation: mining returns about 25 satoshis per megahash per day, prices start at 28.5 satoshi per megahash per day for daily terms...
Blazedout419: Every new miner sold will not likely ROI or turn a profit...yet they sell out over and over
Blazedout419: Makes you wonder
BingoBoingo: Well, this is ATC if that makes any difference
decimation: yeah I guess if you can mine altcoin it might make more sense
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18070 @ 0.00072978 = 13.1871 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6423 @ 0.00072951 = 4.6856 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: decimation: I just did rent X hash for Y time and pointed it at a pool. Have no idea how the pool figures payouts
RagnarDanneskjol: 1,077,310,518 DOGE have been burned for XDP = $147,063.66
RagnarDanneskjol: dogeparty
assbot: Dogecoin Community Burning Currency for Dogeparty » CryptoCoinsNews
ben_vulpes: hey that's enough to keep a guy afloat in bsas for a few months at least
ben_vulpes: to scam
ben_vulpes: rising
ben_vulpes: retain
ben_vulpes: integrity
assbot: Lazerhawk - So Far Away - YouTube
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Lazerhawk - So Far Away - YouTube
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: ;;notes
gribble: I currently have notes waiting for aldur1, benkay, birdman, bitcodernoob, coinfire, D-Dimer, davetherave, dotcoin, eggbot, everyone, jcpham, Kingdom, mariogrip, mexual, mike_c, netsplit, nubbins, pete_dushenki, randywaterhouse, Retro, RetroUpriser, Rozal, the, ThickasTheives, thickasthieves, TimSwanson, trustedcoinhu, tysat, vexual, and yotagada.
nubbins`: ;;notes nubbins
benkay: ;;ping
gribble: pong
ben_vulpes: well that was anticlimactic
dotcoin: ;;ping
gribble: pong
dotcoin: ho ho ho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00072486 = 14.3885 BTC [-]
everyone: ;;ping
gribble: pong
benkay: well there's a neat little hole in gribble
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00072442 = 9.0915 BTC [-]
benkay: ;;ident davetherave
gribble: Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
benkay: ;;gpg info davetherave
gribble: No such user registered.
benkay: ;;gpg info randywaterhouse
gribble: No such user registered.
benkay: ;;bcinfo randywaterhouse
gribble: Error: "bcinfo" is not a valid command.
benkay: hm
gribble: pong
ben_vulpes: nanotube: ^^ you probably know about this one but have a bit of disclosure anyways
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 225 @ 0.00273289 = 0.6149 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> decimation: I just did rent X hash for Y time and pointed it at a pool. Have no idea how the pool figures payouts << you mining atc or btc ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ATC
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> hey that's enough to keep a guy afloat in bsas for a few months at least << the theory that doge is worth dollars, as in over 1, is still lulzy.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anyway the idea of a pool is that you share your stuff
BingoBoingo: So far for contributing 99%+ of the hash that solved 2 blocks I recieved... 24 ATC... P2Pool powered pools are weird
mircea_popescu: so you don't get any credit for what you find, merely for the hashes.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't bother with a pool for atc tbh
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.65 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'd rather not have some shady rented hash pointed directly at my altcoind
dignork: BingoBoingo: it's normal, you get payouts delayed, protection mechanism to avoid pool hopping or w/e
mircea_popescu: ah dignork has a point, you'll get more later prolly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, since you're using friendly ppl i wouldn't much expect actual scam
mircea_popescu: tho thinking about it i dun recall who's running coinminer
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 120772.86 in 1977 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.57
BingoBoingo: I think just whatever altcoin person running pools that found Altcoin on the forum first
mircea_popescu: you know you only could have found 1 block
mircea_popescu: it was 78 earlier
dignork: BingoBoingo: for 8 hours run i'm not sure it's worth it, but it's actually pretty easy to set a temp stratum server, and point miners there.
BingoBoingo: Both happened after I fired this thing up and the pool's previous hash was 0.03 Th/s
dignork: basically mine solo
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo how much didja pay for the 8 hours ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 0.015 BTC, It's a loss, but an educational one.
mircea_popescu: quite educational.
mircea_popescu: 8 hours 1.6th ?
BingoBoingo: The rig advertises 1.4, but it's been reporting ~1.32-1.55, not very stable this beast
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.55 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 0.015 * 3 * 90
gribble: 4.05
mircea_popescu: it's really not so bad.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen thickasthieves
gribble: thickasthieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 minutes and 30 seconds ago: <thickasthieves> ;;ping
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is that possible, i dun see him
decimation: BingoBoingo: what was the hashrate?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Before or after I rented this?
mircea_popescu: was ~0 lol
decimation: I mean of the rig you rented
BingoBoingo: decimation: 1.4 TH/s
decimation: ;;calc (0.015*3)/1.4e6
gribble: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
decimation: so 32 satoshis per day per megahash, not a bad price
mircea_popescu: bout what Blazedout419 list was showing
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's where I rented it
decimation: the lesson is that if you have access to mining hardware your best move is to rent it out, not use it for your own hashing
nubbins`: [03:11:08] benkay is now known as thickasthieves
nubbins`: [03:11:09] <+thickasthieves> ;;ping
pete_dushenski: well howdy
pete_dushenski: had a fun evening out with another couple
pete_dushenski: apparently i was on such a roll, putting other canadian boy in his place, that i've earned the title "sassbot"
pete_dushenski: we already have assbot, so why not?
pete_dushenski: nao i just need to sort out what sassbot, the real bot that is, can do for b-a...
mircea_popescu: !up lordbunson
pete_dushenski: As an outsider, it is (anthropologically) interesting to watch a bunch of (predominantly) white (predominantly) Americans (and Canadians) purport to claim that an interesting payment protocol will solve world peace, governmental overreach, and all the other ills of modernity. << as an insider, i find his use of brackets (fucktarded)
mircea_popescu: how the fuck are bitcoiners predominantly north us ?
mircea_popescu: "as a derp bathing in the lake, i find it interesting to pretend like the lake fauna is pretending to be the whole world. anthropologically!"
mircea_popescu: "i don't speak anything but english and english is mostly spoken in north america. i find this statistically interesting!"
pete_dushenski: "as a man stewed in the secular religion of science, let me share with you its inner workings"
pete_dushenski: "having completed an undergrad degree in north americanism, i'm uniquely qualified"
mircea_popescu: "let me tell you what i think of all the things i know nothing about. it's the reddinternet!"
pete_dushenski: "as long as i have my keyboard, i have my freedom and justice will prevail"
assbot: Meet Gavin Andresen, the Most Powerful Person in the World of Bitcoin http://t.co/vIOaxSoN3x >/techreview
pete_dushenski: it really doesn't get much lulzier
pete_dushenski: other than, perhaps, another derp knocking pgp… moments before stepping down from eff
assbot: certificate transparency for PGP? | discrete blogarithm
assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: What's the matter with PGP?
pete_dushenski: usg guns ablazin' !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00072448 = 7.5708 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: "If the NSA is your adversary just forget about PGP." << fucking golden
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski you know the cryptoderpengineering thing was linked 2x
mircea_popescu: including that quote :D
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell jgarzik you gotta be fucking kidding me with this shit (https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/500224384536412160). who the fuck are you fooling with this malicious derpage?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: well now i do lol
pete_dushenski: still only at 0:51 on today's logs!
pete_dushenski: my apologies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18091 @ 0.00072398 = 13.0975 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20826 @ 0.00072495 = 15.0978 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18707 @ 0.0007257 = 13.5757 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: German Startup Says Its New Chip Halves Bitcoin Mining Energy - Digits - WSJ
assbot: China opens $2-billion extension of controversial Tibet railway| Reuters
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 341 @ 0.001585 = 0.5405 BTC [-] {2}
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 126204.18 in 1974 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -93.28
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.40099999 BTC for Yes on "Difficulty over 21Bn by Summer's end 2014" http://bitbet.us/bet/877/ Odds: 89(Y):11(N) by coin, 89(Y):11(N) by weight. Total bet: 21.71088674 BTC. Current weight: 10,679.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13034 @ 0.00072584 = 9.4606 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://www.libertyroundtable.com/2010/03/30/bonds-what-bonds/ << the problem with this nonsense is that while the bonds do in fact in some very torturous sense make the kids "slaves", nevertheless the kids also get all the shit that the bonds bought.
assbot: Bonds? What Bonds? | Liberty RoundTable
mircea_popescu: like, kid doesn't have to go to the forest, cut logs and make a schoolhouse before he can have a basic math class.
mircea_popescu: same kid doesn't have to lay optic cable before he reads silly derpage on the internet.
mircea_popescu: so yeah, it's a give and take sort of deal. it only becomes problematic when fuckwits get a hold of the reins.
mircea_popescu: now if all these noob bloggers would learn to stop using disqus, the world would be such a much better place.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16089 @ 0.00072382 = 11.6455 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00072349 = 21.1259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4648 @ 0.00072349 = 3.3628 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00072349 = 8.2116 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00072349 = 7.1987 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00072568 = 14.9127 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00072587 = 12.0857 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14508 @ 0.00072341 = 10.4952 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: sgornick: it's ben_vulpes' blog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00072577 = 9.0721 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: sgornick ben_vulpes
assbot: Is the 52-Week High Momentum Strategy Profitable in the Foreign Exchange Market? by Ahmad Raza, Ben R. Marshall, Nuttawat Visaltanachoti :: SSRN
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00072492 = 20.2978 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00072386 = 9.9169 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4668 @ 0.00072371 = 3.3783 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 325 @ 0.00159982 = 0.5199 BTC [-]
nanotube: ben_vulpes: yea, later tell is for casual messaging only.
kakobrekla: ;;google blaze foley oval room
gribble: Blaze Foley, Oval Room - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRLc2O1xtYk>; Blaze Foley-Oval Room 1984 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuWmIpL2GLA>; Oval Room - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uahasx5h-qw>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 1000 @ 0.0005085 = 0.5085 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00072438 = 13.9805 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00072311 = 13.8837 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5376 @ 0.00072247 = 3.884 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25303 @ 0.00072438 = 18.329 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00072398 = 12.8868 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9041 @ 0.00072435 = 6.5488 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20385 @ 0.00072398 = 14.7583 BTC [-]
assbot: TSA Harasses Police Chief Entire Police Department Fired | Liberty RoundTable
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 700 @ 0.00152516 = 1.0676 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7356 @ 0.00072453 = 5.3296 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: Apocalyptic: I fear your email server still doesn't handle greylisting properly :( also, setting up a SPF record would help you not getting greylisted
pankkake: thankfully I can cancel and retry after adding an exception
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00072474 = 13.2627 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.76580864 BTC to 13`856 shares, 12744 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 16.64032636 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1447 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14474 @ 0.00072551 = 10.501 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: Apocalyptic: nevermind, I finally got the mail
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00072577 = 5.9513 BTC [+]
assbot: Boxy and His Leaky Bottle in Ossasepia
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: <asciilifeform> [03:48:59] decimation: 'cardano, design and operation' will include a nicely whittled version of 4880. << done by nubbins` ?
asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps
asciilifeform: to the folks ddosing my site last night - nice work, but no cigar.
copumpkin: damn, I'll have to get a better botnet
wyrdmantis: asciilifeform, which is your site?
asciilifeform: wyrdmantis: loper-os.org
kakobrekla: why would they ddos you?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: as if i knew.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26828 @ 0.00072588 = 19.4739 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42380 @ 0.0007242 = 30.6916 BTC [-] {2}
wyrdmantis: http://www.amazon.com/The-Bitcoin-Bible-Benjamin-Guttmann/dp/3732284328 <<<--- is this useful in your opinion? a beginner asked me, i will not buy it.
assbot: The Bitcoin Bible: Benjamin Guttmann: 9783732284320: Amazon.com: Books
punkman: wyrdmantis: no
wyrdmantis: punkman ok, but why?
wyrdmantis: if you can tell me... :)
punkman: wyrdmantis: a simple heuristic is "does $author even WOT?"
punkman: !up darlidada
wyrdmantis: ahahhah, i already had the answer! thanks man
wyrdmantis: i'm learning bit a bits
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> ;;later tell jgarzik you gotta be fucking kidding me with this shit (https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/500224384536412160). who the fuck are you fooling with this malicious derpage? << this "usable lib" shit is hysterical. look - if you need to use GPG programatically, shell the fuck out to it from whatever you're doing. specify a sane homedir or even better run your application as its own user so it gets its own
ben_vulpes: properly perm'd homedir. if none of the above makes sense, you don't know enough about how computers work to be fucking with gpg. luckily, you'll learn it over the course of a week writing your own wrapper.
ben_vulpes: if over the course of that week you haven't figured it out...
ben_vulpes: you a) can't read documentation and b) don't know how to ask questions.
punkman: ben_vulpes: what's ben-ads written in?
ben_vulpes: clojure
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell sgornick you've found my "who's paying attention to me honeypot"! you get a foxcoin
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: punkman: 1377 lines of code, 2103 lines of tests
kakobrekla: yet its down 10% of the time? :D
kakobrekla: need moar tests!
punkman: need another 10kloc
wyrdmantis: bye bye guys
ben_vulpes: u funny kakobrekla
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16172 @ 0.0007222 = 11.6794 BTC [-] {2}
pankkake: ;;ticker --market bcent --currency eur
gribble: Bitcoin-Central BTCEUR ticker | Best bid: 387.0, Best ask: 394.99999999, Bid-ask spread: 8.00000, Last trade: 399.0, 24 hour volume: 71.63193613, 24 hour low: 370.0, 24 hour high: 400.0, 24 hour vwap: 380.18933299
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.08 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 315956 | Current Difficulty: 1.9729645940577133E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 316511 | Next Difficulty In: 555 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 7 hours, 17 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 23410296459.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 18.65543
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13463 @ 0.00072255 = 9.7277 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14730 @ 0.00072209 = 10.6364 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.00072209 = 11.6618 BTC [-]
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.28 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
mircea_popescu: ahahaha mod6 you've been beat BY A GIRL ?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: wd diana_coman, the first eulora crafter.
mthreat: (in Argentina)
mircea_popescu: alfajores! :D
mircea_popescu: they're nuts with those things, i've seen them advertised with lanky adolescent legs, with cars i think,
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if argentines think alfajores are mana.
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 135991.25 in 1968 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -92.76
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so your 1.5 bitcents bought like 10 blocks ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 11
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 150000 / 11 / 512
gribble: 26.6335227273
mircea_popescu: you actually got 5k atc to show for it ?!
BingoBoingo: Well, 1900 and more coming if this pools ever solves moar blocks. Apparently I get paid later
BingoBoingo: Should have just set up to solo
mircea_popescu: i'm game. you're authorised to spend 1 btc mpif funds to rent atc hashpower, which includes cover for the prev 1.5 btc.
mircea_popescu: try an' get a good deal.
BingoBoingo: I'll shop around
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as “cryptocurrencies” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo get something going meanwhile.
mircea_popescu: another few bitcents to keep that thing going won't be anyone's concern. maybe see if you can contact the rig owner or w/e. wriggle it in.
mircea_popescu: and in any case have stuff ready to go once diff drops, keep it sort-of level.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00072321 = 15.2236 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "It looked like a pile of numbered cubes as it bobbed gently and flew over the landscape and under the sea. It was Boxy and it had not a worry in the world nor in his head, for his head had holes shaped like one, two, three… But it had no purpose either and so it was in search of a purpose that he explored the whole land of Eulora – a land that was just learning to be."
mircea_popescu: ahah that is just great.
mircea_popescu: !up AndChat|679296
BingoBoingo: dignork: How does this setting up a stratum server work?
mircea_popescu: and who's running coinminer again ? hey! you here ?
assbot: [Pool] _-=* CoinMiner Pool *=-_ 42 http://coinminer.net:19991/
mircea_popescu: !up CS1980
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sent him a PM on the forum
BingoBoingo: Hello CS1980
CS1980: hello everyone
mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought someone in the wot was running an atc pool.
mircea_popescu: i guess i got confused.
mircea_popescu: CS1980 who're you ?
assbot: [Pool] _-=* CoinMiner Pool *=-_ 42 http://coinminer.net:19991/
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There's also Pity the Pool, but they... are reporting 0 hash
mircea_popescu: o, you mean even when you mine ?
BingoBoingo: Haven't mined it yet but I'll point a trickle there to see if they report anything... Once I make an account as I am nao
diana_coman: hello all
diana_coman: thanks mircea_popescu
diana_coman: any pointers to figure out atc? I have no idea on it, lol
Chris_Sabian: which part of ATC?
diana_coman: any part, I know nothing more about it than that I won 500 of it lol
mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's just a direct btc clone, really. you can even use btc addresses for it.
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 188 Ask: 221 Last Price: 188 24h-Vol: 5k High: 188 Low: 188 VWAP: 188
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 135991.25 in 1968 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -92.76
mircea_popescu: that'd be it ^
diana_coman: uh oh, then...why ? I'm fine with btc, lol
Chris_Sabian: ThickAsThieves started it as a CoinGen bitcoin clone in late january 2014. people have been mining since then. they are worth about 200 satoshi
mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's mostly a b-a insider joke.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu ahh, now I remember something from the logs, I had rather skipped it though so far as not-on-my-list
diana_coman: will go back and have a look, thanks
Chris_Sabian: not sure if there has been any development on atc or if there will ever be
mircea_popescu: well for instance you can play wol.
mircea_popescu: or you mean ON THE PROTOCOL ?
Chris_Sabian: either.
Chris_Sabian: i've heard of wol but never looked into it.
mircea_popescu: only altchain you can play wol on.
assbot: War of Life - Cellular automata to the death!
mircea_popescu: https://btc.waroflife.com/gow/24/ this actually looks kinda pretty.
assbot: Game 24 - Death 4336 Life 5664 Year 1000 - War of Life
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.08 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
mod6: not the predicted 93% of the broken bitcoin-asset bot. << dick. this number comes from atc.blockr.io
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00072189 = 9.3846 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mod6 he has a point, it doesn't move more than 4x either way on a recalibration
BingoBoingo: Ah, PitythePool just doesn't work
mircea_popescu: however, it's purely academic. so it takes more blocks. same deal.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo a fine mess! where is tat! :D
mod6: mircea_popescu: maybe so. the bot just reports what it's handed. just trying to defend my code's honor so to speak. lol
BingoBoingo: Yes, where is Tat!
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.19 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
BingoBoingo: Emailed the PitythePool guy
mircea_popescu: !up railzand
railzand: Thank you Mr P. I'm the idiot who broke altcoin. I beg your forgiveness
BingoBoingo: railzand: What did you do?
railzand: I pointed 12.5 T at it on a stratum server
mircea_popescu: railzand lol hey, it's supposed to be tried out.
mircea_popescu: so point 12.5t at it again.
ben_vulpes: (and leave it there?)
mircea_popescu: well not rly, just, get diff more in line with mkt value
railzand: Is that my punishment? I am but a poor peon...
mircea_popescu: lol what, you rented it ?
BingoBoingo: ;;gettrust railzand
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user BingoBoingo to user railzand: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=BingoBoingo&dest=railzand | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=railzand | Rated since: never
BingoBoingo: railzand: Which stratum server was this?
railzand: Yes rented from a guy who knows how to do all that
mircea_popescu: well so did you actually make a profit ?
railzand: I made .2x real coin and 43000 alt
mircea_popescu: sounds a little under my earlier estimate :o
mircea_popescu: anyway, so get the guy in question to come here. we were looking for someone to rent from anyway
mircea_popescu: !up X-Rob
X-Rob: Morning 8)
mircea_popescu: heya. who're you ?
X-Rob: Just a guy
railzand: X-Rob saw me through the raping of altcoin
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
X-Rob: Yeah
mircea_popescu: aite, so you got some hash to rent out ?
X-Rob: Yeah, I do!
assbot: LeaseRig.net - Mining Rigs   - Rent and Lease Mining Rigs for Bitcoin, Litecoin and Altcoin Mining.
kakobrekla: laser rig!
X-Rob: However, full disclosure, etc, I'm the guy who caused all that shitstorm with that new unattainum scamcoin
mircea_popescu: lol totally.
mircea_popescu: what shitstorm was that ?
X-Rob: Excellent
X-Rob: Let's just leave it like that then
X-Rob: (that was the correct answer)
mircea_popescu: !s unattanium
assbot: unattanium scamcoin - Google Search
X-Rob: IT's actually Unattainium
X-Rob: an extra i
X-Rob: however, you can look through my bct ('xrobau') profile for me trying to argue with idiots. I gave up, however.
railzand: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'railzand', with hostmask 'railzand!sid39942@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjuerwktzpwyvmkj', is identified as user 'railzand', with GPG key id 449DCE0C3F3952EA, key fingerprint 1CFAF95FA34862FCD62A33A3449DCE0C3F3952EA, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: X-Rob so just like mpoe-pr, two years later.
mircea_popescu: anyway, so it's either the 1.2 or the 12.7 rig ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00072216 = 3.2497 BTC [+] {2}
X-Rob: That's meant to be 13, but a couple of S2s are running slow
X-Rob: so I downspecced it.
X-Rob: and yes
X-Rob: I can organise larger hashrates if you want
mircea_popescu: what i actually want is like 2.x ish
X-Rob: 2th?
mircea_popescu: something like that.
X-Rob: for how long?
mircea_popescu: but i guess the lower one would work. how'd you feel about a longer term deal ? willing to move on the price a little ?
X-Rob: Depends on how long you want it for
X-Rob: 8)
mircea_popescu: something like 3 months
X-Rob: 2th for 3 months.
X-Rob grabs a calculator
kakobrekla: if there isnt a significant discount you are better off to rehire every diff change hehe
kakobrekla: i mean btc diff change.
mircea_popescu: precisely.
X-Rob: OK
assbot: Bitcoin Mining Calculator
X-Rob: artcalculate=true
X-Rob: Crap
X-Rob: Link's too long
mircea_popescu: we welcome your sausage donation.
X-Rob: that says 2 months = 2btc for 1.7
X-Rob: I'm happy to lease for that
X-Rob: We can do it all through leaserig so you can control where it points
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu and all other 'trinitron' aficionados: when you get the inevitable tube fade, do you boost the electron gun voltage? or bite the bullet and somehow conjure up a new (!) tube ?
X-Rob: 3 months is.. unwise.
mircea_popescu: is laserig your thing ?
X-Rob: nah, I just rent my gear through there
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i use my displays incredibly low.
mircea_popescu: X-Rob well, i dun know em, i dun trust em, and we have a similar problem : you're not in the wot.
asciilifeform: darkroom ?
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: uh I am?
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust X-Rob
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user X-Rob: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=X-Rob | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=X-Rob | Rated since: Mon May 16 20:47:55 2011
X-Rob: you mean gribble?
X-Rob: ;;gettrust xrobau
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask X-Rob!sid14615@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ofnkmqlfshhqtblr. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user xrobau to user xrobau: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xrobau&dest=xrobau | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=xrobau | Rated since: Thu Apr 4 18:48:30 2013
mircea_popescu: yes but that's not how this thing works.
mircea_popescu: i guess i should have said you're not in mine.
X-Rob: fair enough
X-Rob: well
X-Rob: I'm not anonymous.
X-Rob: I have a reputation thread
assbot: xrobau Reputation thread.
kakobrekla: i have a reputation dildo
mircea_popescu: now what was that,
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 200000000 / 1.7 / 60 / 24 / 3600
gribble: 22.6942628903
X-Rob: I'm actually away at my inlaws this weekend
mircea_popescu: so like 2.269 satoshi/day or did i just broke the maths ?
X-Rob: and the kids are now up and want to play minecraft on the laptop
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: use the link I pasted
mircea_popescu: aite, so return later!
X-Rob: which is based on http://bit.ly/roi-s2
assbot: Bitcoin Mining Calculator
X-Rob: jsut doubled
X-Rob: 8)
X-Rob: anyway, toodles 8-)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00072159 = 12.3392 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: yeah well that link doesn't have avalon 3 blades
mod6: I guess I could just put a line in there to set the % est. diff change to -75% of less than that number is received from the source.
mircea_popescu: mod6 dun worry about it, it doesn't need fixing.
mod6: ok thx.
mircea_popescu: and of course the spec is a gnarly pos. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon3 anywhere from 310 to 410 w per o.o
assbot: Avalon3 - Bitcoin
asciilifeform: still boggling mind at the newest pgp hatchet job. why the idiocy? or rather, why was it not cushioned in perfectly logical criticism of the spec (crufty; mandates support for hideously weak algos; etc) ?
asciilifeform: almost enough to believe that the author is secretly on the side of the forces of good - i.e. he isn't genuinely trying to fool anyone
asciilifeform: like the mythical einsatzgruppen kommando loading blank shells.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because they can't afford to pay smart people enough.
asciilifeform: can't afford - or won't prioritize ?
mircea_popescu: can.not.afford.
mod6: that seems like a shitton of power for one chip mp O.o
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23921 @ 0.00072431 = 17.3262 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: mod6 he has 6 of em. they're rated 280ish to 310ish ea
asciilifeform: i bet that eth dump could've bought some talent.
asciilifeform: (or, hell, $bignum printed bezzlars)
mod6: huh
asciilifeform favours crackpot theory: the seekrit skvirels prefer to enlist 'pure blood aryans' and this is a painful constraint for them
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's provably false : if they did, you'd know what the definition of aryan is.
asciilifeform: definition of aryan << something like herr snowden
mircea_popescu: "something like" is not much of a definition.
asciilifeform: american military tradition borrows heavily from the brits
mircea_popescu: orly. how did they manage to enlist a tranny then ?
asciilifeform: enlist a tranny << slightly different dynamic there. any street scum can enlist as a private
asciilifeform: i think they even removed the age limits recently
mircea_popescu: but... they gave him the keys.
asciilifeform: 'diplomatic' (intelligence) corps are still largely 'aryan' afaik
mircea_popescu: you're trying to sell this conceptual model where in alt-nazi germany one can be hung for being a jew ONLY IF working as a clerk.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, all gravy.
asciilifeform: they gave him the keys << the anglos have a historic problem, in that they never invented политрукs
mircea_popescu: by its very nature aryan-ism has to be universal.
mircea_popescu: too painful cognitive dissonance otherwise.
asciilifeform: thus they have issues with quis custodiet ipsos custodes
asciilifeform: ^ re: the conundrum of why a private has 'the keys'
mircea_popescu: For those that are unaware, Unattanium is a newish limited-number-of-coins SHA coin. They've recently had to fork the chain, because the difficulty calculations were broken, and it went far too high. Sadly, they've now broken it in the other direction, and the dev seems intent on ignoring this, and abusing or hand-waving the problems away. It's now running at an 8 second block time. For everyone who is NOT facepalming
mircea_popescu: right now, this is faster than blockchain propagation. Basically, it will be amazingly difficulty for the coin to agree on a valid chain, because there will be any number of chains that are almost the same length.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: what a gem.
asciilifeform returns, every time he thinks about any of this, to the Great Mystery of why our beloved phriends never, ever leak anything interestingly cryptological
asciilifeform wants to know wtf is in 'suite A' (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323), how AES drips key bits, etc.
mircea_popescu: stan's wishlist :D
asciilifeform: if wishes were atomic dirigibles, beggars would rain thermonuclear hell upon their enemies.
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a leak history that favours tedious operational garbage and entirely omits the good stuff suggests 'hangout'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu how do I get my crafting prize and is there a time limit for that (to know how much time I have to figure out the basics of altcoin)?
asciilifeform regards hypothesis 'there is no good stuff' as unproven
mircea_popescu: diana_coman no time limit. you post an address.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu great, thanks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the stuff that was leaked so far mostly follows the "brain percentage" criterion.
mircea_popescu: the stuff you want to know about, three people know. unless one of them is the source, it's not leaking.
mod6: ;;rate diana_coman 1 Won Eulora Crafting Prize
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diana_coman has been recorded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not necessarily. the inventor, of, say, 'joseki' is probably long dead - but a small army of monkeys (engineers, sw/hw production staff, auditors, etc) have access to 'the goods' - and they aren't leaking either.
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
mircea_popescu: it's purely statistical, like say a biopsy.
gribble: Time since last block: 50 minutes and 36 seconds
mircea_popescu: you'll find much less pituitary cells in a random biopsy than muscle tissue
BingoBoingo: ^ Oh no, not BTC too!!!
diana_coman: ;;rate mod6 1 graceful competitor for Eulora Crafting Prize
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.
diana_coman: mod6 thank you!
asciilifeform: at the risk of sounding like anatoliy golitsyn (infamous fellow who insists, even today, that ussr faked its own death) - the available, afaik, evidence suggests either terrible - or incredibly good - cryptology
mircea_popescu: this is pretty cool.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me put it some other way. wouldn't you expect that if mp is conversant in pgp, so would be obama ?
mircea_popescu: so that people couldn't like, you knoiw, steal his selfies from his plaintext gmail acct ?
asciilifeform: obama - no. private cocksucker - also no. shadowfuhrer? sure.
mod6: diana_coman: np! good work :)
mircea_popescu: oh shadowfuhrer is it.
mircea_popescu: that's a contradiction in terms don't you know.
asciilifeform searches for a better term, involving puppets and strings
mircea_popescu: dr who ?
asciilifeform: let's say 'reptilian king' or the like.
mircea_popescu: so who was d. f. augustus' ?
mircea_popescu: the spirit of gaius ?
mircea_popescu: you're possibly the most mystically inclined engineer i know.
mircea_popescu: i foresee that when you;ll be old you'll write a great kids book.
mircea_popescu: for srs.
asciilifeform: nothing mystical about thinking like a proper armchair general and pondering the strength of the hidden column of enemy
asciilifeform: when the apparent column is so suggestive of 'ablative' cannon fodder tactic.
mircea_popescu: the notion that there exists an unseen reality behind the seen reality, whether right or wrong, is the very substance of mysticism.
asciilifeform: for proper mysticism, the hidden side must be deemed 'unknowable'
asciilifeform: here is is merely unknown.
asciilifeform: it will make itself known, presumably, if it advances to the front line and 'fires' - but wouldn't it be great to know -before- ?
mircea_popescu: no, that's hermetism.
mircea_popescu: mysticism is an erryday activity.
mircea_popescu: it somewhat shares the fate of "frustration" in the hands of popidiocy. but outside of what the reddit horde thinks, frustration is a major psychological process, the fundament of all volitive activity.
asciilifeform: mysticism: 'the gods shall strike us down' pragmatic armchair generalship: 'that fellow might have a pen gun up his arse'
mircea_popescu: the gods shall strike us down thing is mere eschatology.
jurov: is there a historical example of such a mastermind?
mircea_popescu: lives on a different plane.
asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps i implied that a literal 'lizard king' lives. this is not a necessary hypothesis for a cryptologically-strong usa
asciilifeform: 'lizard king' perhaps should be understood as 'set of remaining competent commanders'
jurov: that falls into mastermind definition too, you know
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: the sadest fate in the world would be for such a set to exist, ina bunker somewhere.
mircea_popescu: imagine if you went to hibernate like a bear, and when you came through all your shit was broken and unresponsive.
asciilifeform: aye. sorta like the japanese version of 'manhattan project'
asciilifeform: (they, if i recall, were actually on the right track, unlike germany)
jurov: how would the graybearded dude be able even remotely comprehend all the intelligence?
jurov: even mircea with all his minions says it's unlikely
asciilifeform: jurov: the hypothetical master doesn't need to. he just sorta sits there quietly and bakes pills against rsa; creates diddled but internationally-appealing block ciphers; etc
jurov: but you imply he needs to pull strings in addition to that
asciilifeform: he sits and plays 'tetris' on his handmade optical cpu
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a brain devoid of spinal chord can not work.
asciilifeform: the strings, in this hypothetical narrative, are pulled by another master - one of disinfo, whose purpose would then consist of shielding the former greybeard.
mircea_popescu: your "mastermind", provided he exists, is drunk and insane.
jurov: so now we know what stan's fapping to
jurov: handmade optical cpus
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/13NWTKZ.txt )
asciilifeform: this is, admittedly, merely a plausible - if fantastic - hypothesis. but one admitted by the known facts. -- like the nonphysical solution to a quadratic.
mircea_popescu: it's not plausible. it is entertaining, but it lacks a fundamental point for plausibility :
mircea_popescu: it's unbalanced.
asciilifeform: unbalanced ?
asciilifeform: how's that
mircea_popescu: well let's see. suppose you have a wol game table.
mircea_popescu: while in principle any configuration is as possible as any other, the configuration you propose is mod2. ie, if the cell index is odd, cell is dead, if not, alive.
mircea_popescu: this is not actually a possible outcome.
asciilifeform: this is known as a 'garden of eden state'
asciilifeform: (in cellular automata jargon)
mircea_popescu: it's what i mean by unbalanced.
mircea_popescu: if you take "meaning" as a rough equivalent for entalpy, your thing is too meaningful to exist.
asciilifeform: but how does this apply? my hypothetical is a historically-humdrum 'skunk works' scenario
mircea_popescu: no, it's not.
mircea_popescu: your hypotethical is a brain in a jar separated from a pile of muscle in a barrel.
mircea_popescu: which both, independently, work, for the greater glory of theoretical abstraction
mircea_popescu: this is directly contradictory to how the world works, and specifically because your abstract objects tend to be contextless, which requires too large an expenditure of "meaning" for them to exist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00072126 = 12.4417 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: which makes jurov's fap observation quite on point : you're not describing a real, live human female here, you're describing a mythological beast abstracted out of miles of pr0nz reel.
asciilifeform: let's give them some context, then. picture scenario where the $maxint in u.s. cryptologic work actually resulted in something useful. but, so useful that, like a thermonuke, it isn't fit to trot out on just any everyday occasion.
asciilifeform: how would this world's observables differ from the known observables?
mircea_popescu: well counterfactuals are problematic, but let's see if you can get painted into a corner.
asciilifeform: please do
mircea_popescu: does this SU exist ?
mircea_popescu: (something useful)
asciilifeform: that's the hypothesis. what if yes ?
mircea_popescu: we are already accepting your hypothesis, im asking you q's as if your h was reality.
mircea_popescu: so admitting it exists. has it ever been used ?
asciilifeform: well then. suppose, bush sr., or whoever, circa '92, whenever, was informed of the discovery, in his fuhrerbunker. then he proclaims: 'let's get the people with valuable secrets to use rsa. how to do this?'
mircea_popescu: ah won';t you just play my oracle here ?
mircea_popescu: jus answer what i ask, see where we end up.
asciilifeform: i'd say it has not been used. waiting to the pig to get fatter, before slaughter.
mircea_popescu: so it's never been used. is it physically located ?
asciilifeform: sure. 'indiana jones vault' or the like.
mircea_popescu: does everybody know about it ?
asciilifeform: naturally not.
mircea_popescu: what keeps central government from investigating this vault as a possible alien landing site ?
asciilifeform: some small circle of people would be privy to it.
mircea_popescu: are they in power ?
asciilifeform: like the proverbial 'bomb codes'.
asciilifeform: 'in power' in as much as anyone guarding something of value can be thought of as 'in power.'
mircea_popescu: but if they are not in power absolutely, what keeps central government from investigating this vault as a possible alien landing site ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: familiar with the story of jimmy carter and 'area 51' known to the alien aficionados?
mircea_popescu: vaguely.
asciilifeform: it went entirely like the tale of gorbachev and andropov
asciilifeform: and the soviet gdp.
mircea_popescu: tales tend to all go alike for the reason that they're tales.
asciilifeform: 'mr carter, you aren't cleared for this, and if you ask again there will be problems.'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, my q needs an answer :D
asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't personally boot carter - or gorbached - from the goodies vault. but tale is plausible. compartmentalization of 'fun secrets' is generally easy because of the miniscule number of qualified thieves - that is, folks who apprehend the true value of the goods.
mircea_popescu: but the people doing it have to be in power.
mircea_popescu: without the "will be problems" rider this fizzles.
asciilifeform: more traditional question - who, if anyone, can pilfer a working nuke?
asciilifeform: and correctly put it to its intended use
mircea_popescu: you're doing the psychic thing now, where you try to flee the experiment.
asciilifeform: just trying to argue against 'nothing so valuable can exist, it would've been lifted by now'
mircea_popescu: that's not what i said at any point
asciilifeform: help me along then
asciilifeform: what's the experiment here
mircea_popescu: well, either the SU keepers are in (absolute) power, or else they are not.
mircea_popescu: if they are not, the number of problems that appear is overwhelming.
mircea_popescu: if they are, then they have had to have kept it historically. this is also overwhelming.
mircea_popescu: it neatly reduces to an argument pro deus.
asciilifeform: why this dichotomy. is it not possible for them to have absolute power to guard 'the goods' but not, say, to control other aspects of the world ? like any ordinary guard
mircea_popescu: no. power does not divide.
mircea_popescu: this is why the government needs both the power to kill people and the power to inflate the currency,
mircea_popescu: and this is why wrestling any away is enough to kill the thing.
asciilifeform: so, continuing with this lemma, the 'guard' is an impossibility because, were he to exist, he could trivially order his supposed superiors to disappear forever up their own arses, should he wish this?
mircea_popescu: basically.
mircea_popescu: now, in usual high fiction this is resolved as a bizarre order of sworn monks and so on
mircea_popescu: but mind ye that all through the middle ages about half the bastards were sons of monks.
asciilifeform: this is almost convincing re: the impossibility argument. but suppose the goods isn't a generic rsa pill, but something more akin to nuke. that is, oppenheimer & friends didn't run off to an island and form own kingdom, because their 'jewel' required astonishing resources to put into action (industrial empire) and not very useful on their own, on paper
asciilifeform: to make more concrete:
asciilifeform: say, a factoring algo that runs in polynomial time but with a stupidly large constant factor.
asciilifeform: i wouldn't imagine the 'sworn monks' can keep the lid on indefinitely - only thus far. as we've seen, they succeed in keeping the lid on 'suite a' & co. is the argument, then, that the pressure under the lid cannot be too high then ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, but then <mircea_popescu> does everybody know about it ?
asciilifeform: let's give example from outside of cryptology
asciilifeform: it is generally known that the 20th c. 'holy grail' of nuke engineering was the so-called 'pure fusion' device.
asciilifeform: that is, requiring no fissile initiator
asciilifeform: official story is that both east and west expended astonishing resources on the problem - and, generally believed, that nothing came of this.
asciilifeform: if either side had tested a working pure fusion device, in the customary 'drilled well' method, the public would not necessarily have learned of the fact.
mircea_popescu: but <mircea_popescu> does this SU exist ?
asciilifeform: someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.
asciilifeform: i do not know whether it exists.
asciilifeform: but posit that it could, given observables.
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDeck
MolokoDeck: wondering what method(s) you had in mind for placing arbitrary hashes into the blockchain.
MolokoDeck: i'm not sure a wallet API is adequate to sculpt transaction scripts to insert data. they're usually constrained to sending payments. bitcoind RPC calls would be needed for anything exotic.
asciilifeform: MolokoDeck: probably simplest solution: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490 -- but can be trivially improved on.
assbot: Loper OS » Practical Blockchain Telegraphy.
MolokoDeck: I'll look into it.
MolokoDeck: clue.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck if the worst comes to worst, hash it into a bitcoin address and send there.
MolokoDeck: burn the minimum transaction fee/size sure.
mircea_popescu: you burn that anyway.
MolokoDeck: was considering something that popped an invalid address then dismissed it before doing the actual spend. sort of a address=hashdata, oops, address=actualwalletaddress
MolokoDeck: I'd have to look more into how the stack language handles that or whether that's even doable with the restricted opcode set.
MolokoDeck: ok. I'll keep looking into it. solutions exist.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1800 @ 0.00159967 = 2.8794 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck actually i like the model whereby the actual string to certify is hashed as a privkey then made into a bitcoin address then have a little something sent there
mircea_popescu: because anyone can spend the something, and in so doing super-prove the whole charade.
mircea_popescu: basically we get a btc faucet built in.
ben_vulpes: bitcoin scavenger hunts!
ben_vulpes: find the correct string, spend the btc!
ben_vulpes: has this been done?
mircea_popescu: not rly.
ben_vulpes: could be a neat implementation for your next cryptogram, mircea_popescu
punkman: there's been a few
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck and also there's no cruft, perfectly standard tx, can use any webwallet, it's perfect. look no further, this is what i want.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i considered it but it'd kinda make it only 1 guy.
punkman: MolokoDeck: in case you didn't see this in the logs: https://github.com/maraoz/proofofexistence
assbot: maraoz/proofofexistence GitHub
chetty: <ben_vulpes> find the correct string, spend the btc!//souds better than rolling dice games :))
nubbins`: ^ XD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00072069 = 12.4679 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;rate X-Rob 1 splendid work on that derpcoin. https://bitcointa.lk/threads/unattanium-broken-by-design.351020/ so much lol.
assbot: Unattanium: Broken by design. | Bitcointa.lk
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user X-Rob has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: !s cryptmarketcap.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20567 @ 0.00072098 = 14.8284 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: pankkake what's the pool situation on atc ?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell X-Rob say when you're back.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !up X-Rob
X-Rob: I've been here
X-Rob: Thanks 8)
mircea_popescu: so since i like you now, you can have 2 btc for the 2 month aus3 miner contract.
mircea_popescu: you happy with weekly payments ?
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I'll be home in about 4 hours or so
mircea_popescu: (weekly advance payments)
X-Rob: I'll set it up with you them
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: sign up with a lease rig account
X-Rob: They do all that stuff for me
mircea_popescu: but i dun wanna ;/
X-Rob: You pay them, however often you want
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: hrm. How are you planning on controlling the rig then?
mircea_popescu: i was thinking of gving you a pool to point at and forgetting about it.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: well, if that's all you want, no problems
mircea_popescu: and also, you can self-voice now.
mircea_popescu: all you need is to pm assbot !up while idented.
X-Rob: Thanks
mircea_popescu: a btw. dignork where are you hashing ?
dignork: last few hours it was offline, but in general it's solo
dignork: BingoBoingo was askin about stratum: i have a simple setup with local altcoind and https://github.com/pocesar/node-stratum
assbot: pocesar/node-stratum GitHub
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust Mortimer452
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Mortimer452: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=Mortimer452 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mortimer452 | Rated since: never
[]bot: Bet created: "BTC 100 times bigger than LTC Feb 1st" http://bitbet.us/bet/1024/
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.87 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
mircea_popescu: mod6 http://ispace.co.uk/ << any way to add these ppls ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.0007205 = 2.9541 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin over $600 before October" http://bitbet.us/bet/1025/
dignork: ;;later tell BingoBoingo atc stratum server -> https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3f743a63dbf257b11641
assbot: sample ATC stratum server - uses https://github.com/pocesar/node-stratum
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: !up guest3476
mircea_popescu: dignork honestly i think i'd rather use a pool. get some of that reaganomics trickle down effect going.
RagnarDanneskjol: i know these guys host/build stratum pools as described: http://www.livechains.net/
assbot: LiveChains UK
dignork: mircea_popescu: I ran it this way to play with the technology, economical/game theory considerations are not so important for me on alt.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6259 @ 0.00072098 = 4.5126 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.00072094 = 14.8874 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC worth over $5000 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/716/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 16(Y):84(N) by weight. Total bet: 46.26359775 BTC. Current weight: 34,220.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00072094 = 18.0235 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6411 @ 0.00072043 = 4.6187 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18489 @ 0.00072028 = 13.3173 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18346 @ 0.00072095 = 13.2265 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4125 @ 0.0007198 = 2.9692 BTC [-]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 http://ispace.co.uk/ << any way to add these ppls ? << sure no prob.
assbot: iSpace Mining Pools
mod6: %ispace
atcbot: [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 3.64 TH/s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6448 @ 0.0007198 = 4.6413 BTC [-]
mod6: ;;later tell moiety I have some changes to the wiki you might be able to help me with. Ping me when you get a chance. Thanks!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ;;rate moiety 1 Helped me with the atcbot section in the bitcoin-assets wiki.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user moiety has been recorded.
decimation: ;;rate asciilifeform 2 engineer
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
decimation: stupid netsplits
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