Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-04-01 | 2014-04-03 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23655 @ 0.00094095 = 22.2582 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31529 @ 0.00094622 = 29.8334 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00094622 = 14.3352 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.056 = 0.224 BTC [-]
benkay: hey
benkay: hey assettes
benkay: every two weeks
benkay: bitcoin derp central in southeast portland
benkay: this week
benkay: "why u no spend time and energy pumping crypto train its good for everyone"
benkay: "well"
benkay: "you see"
benkay: "i am more interested in checks landing in my mailbox."
benkay: "every bit of energy spent not making checks eventually arrive in my inbox is time wasted."
benkay: "but but but this twitter tweet douchebot!"
benkay: "pennies. from paupers. get out of my face."
Mats_cd03: im content to just collect dividends from mpex
benkay: its pretttty great
Mats_cd03: i figure if btc goes up in ten years or less i can retire to a beach in asia
benkay: don't think like that
benkay: never stop hustling
Mats_cd03: i reverse engineer firmware
Mats_cd03: i can do that on a beach while getting rimmed by a thai prostitute
random_cat: what is this derp central?
Mats_cd03: bitcoin meetup i bet
benkay: central location of derpage
benkay: zone
benkay: o'clock
random_cat scratches behind ear over benkay comments
benkay: you and me both, random_cat
random_cat: where is this derpage happening?
benkay: a bar
benkay: do you know the area, random_cat ?
benkay: oh holy shit
benkay: uh lucky lab
benkay: se
benkay: come out in two weeks!
benkay: ;;gettrust random_cat
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user random_cat: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=random_cat | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=random_cat | Rated since: Sat May 21 17:28:44 2011
random_cat: tuesdays? what time?
benkay: every other
benkay: 8p
benkay: hey tg2 you see that?
random_cat isn't a huge fan of lucky lab's beers
benkay: that's a rating
benkay: ya well it ain't about the beer
benkay: random_cat: pm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00093712 = 31.0655 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: Monks recant: Bundesbank opens the door to QE blitz – Telegraph Blogs
benkay: HAW
benkay: i love ambrose
benkay: funny how the telegraph line length clusters around 72
random_cat: i'd call it awesome
benkay: i think i'm going to rebel against my gui conditioning and agree with you
benkay: TAKE THAT DAD
Mats_cd03: holy fuck this irc client rules
Mats_cd03: embeds tweets and pastebins
Mats_cd03: and i just noticed it embedded a link from gist
Mats_cd03: code snippets o/
benkay: "In several cases my changes take the form of a Turing-complete program that dynamically modifies the upstream source code in several attempts until it passes tests. I’m not kidding."
benkay: (i think he's kidding)
Mats_cd03: id love to see code for that
Diablo-D3: hes not kidding
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18044 @ 0.00093631 = 16.8948 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00093363 = 13.0241 BTC [-] {3}
MisterE: bitcoin-assets.com
MisterE: lol fail
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 477.25, vol: 17444.61766036 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 479.435, vol: 13599.58296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 477.1492, vol: 14700.48263507 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 488.01, vol: 43.6548417 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 464.734836, vol: 3681.68780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 488.96, vol: 22.76701776 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 489.198088, vol: 104.27305101 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29094 @ 0.00093362 = 27.1627 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54179 @ 0.00093981 = 50.918 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 24 @ 0.056 = 1.344 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 98 @ 0.0075 = 0.735 BTC [+]
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings
ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 626 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.0800% in 3d 16h 28m 16s
VanCleef: lol aweomsome now they are locking the thread
BingoBoingo: So... got scared, went fraud
antephialtic: ... and neo is out of money and probably fucked
antephialtic: Good News For Bitcoin (TM)
VanCleef: and hes quitting
peterl: I just started a new thread for people to continue the discussion. I doubt, however, that he will answer in it.
BingoBoingo: The thing is he seems to describe it as neo's money
peterl: I wonder if the line between his money and NEO's money was not clear enough?
BingoBoingo: Seems like it as his solution to Neo's lack of money is trying to take his equity in no money for someone else's money to acquire his worthless equity
VanCleef: i knew there was something wrong when i seen pictures of their office
VanCleef: big watse of money
antephialtic: well I guess bitcoin is really going to take off in cyprus now
VanCleef: shotgun some neobee office shairs
VanCleef: chairs
VanCleef: they look mint
BingoBoingo: This is the problem that happens when Facebook is allowed to IPO and a shitty Facebook game is allow to IPO soon after
VanCleef: dotcom bubble 2.0
VanCleef: but yeh i hope MP books a flight to russia soon
VanCleef: he will be safe there
BingoBoingo: MP's probably safe most places in the world.
ozbot: MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges
VanCleef: scary the amount of power usa still has :/
VanCleef: go to russia dood
antephialtic: why would anyone want to buy the equity of an insolvent company
antephialtic: he doesn't mention the actual debts of neo&bee
antephialtic: which I am sure are quite massive
VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year
antephialtic: were a white knight to save them, all the existing shareholders would get wiped out anyways
BingoBoingo: The thing read as though "I wanted to go insolvent on my schedule, but I deposited with people who went insolvent first"
chetty: the sky is falling, the sky is falling the sky is falling
antephialtic: i don't have any money in neo. its just annoying to see another implosion that makes bitcoin look stupid to the rest of the unenlightened population
BingoBoingo: Eh, it seems by his retelling he could only disappear a quarter of what inputs.io disappeared. Progress-ish
chetty: agreed, that and the derps inventing stuff about MP in trouble
cazalla: those commercials are prime candidates for new subtitles aka hitler finds out type style
chetty: not enough actual drama, must invent some more !!!
BingoBoingo: Pirate disappeared a quarter million BTC, TradeFortress disappeared 4000, Danny disappeared 1200. Soon we will get down to a single BTC being a newsworthy heist
VanCleef: dont forget bitfunder/weex scam
BingoBoingo: VanCleef: Is that the thing neo bailed out for no damned reason?
cazalla: so lose 10% to cypriot banks, lose the remaining 90% to neo?
BingoBoingo: Well, just holding BTC oneself was an option
Apocalyptic: hum looks like havelock is offline
zacm: wonder what happened with bitfunder, still not been revealed
zacm: cazalla: ouch!!!
mircea_popescu: haha i got my hitler paintings today.
mircea_popescu: zacm: so this is disconcerting to see the lemmings on bitcointalk cheer on us gov action against mpex people. bitcoin community must be eagerly anticipating govcoin i guess << i wouldn't read too much into the derpage of a coupla tards tbh.
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 pretty cool!
Neil: Something I'd wanted to know for a long time; now I can produce this easily: http://pastebin.com/7QSb6ypA
Neil: Block 266381 was good for 110 trillion difficulty!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1521 @ 0.00013758 = 0.2093 BTC [+] {3}
Neil: Also the genesis block was 2,536 times harder than necessary. Which is odd. It held the record for 1430 blocks.
mircea_popescu: tg2 the problem with your approach is that protocols are designed and implemented by they involved, not by the armchair generals. tis not up to you or whatever random derp on reddit to "draw up guidelines", there's no government of the people in bitcoin. there's government by bitcoin opf the people.
mircea_popescu: Neil pretty cool yeah, did you generate it ?
Neil: Yup
mircea_popescu: poor mike_c and his prime sarcasm falling on deaf ears :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3332 @ 0.00013799 = 0.4598 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: blurden who are you perhaps the more instructive question.
artifexd: ;;later tell Mats_cd03 What irc client are you using?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: it is always one thing to read a philosophical bit, and another to taste it on one's sorry skin << do tell ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: but i'm not about to buy a coin off some random noob with no trust ;p <<< ajaahaha the moment we've all been waioting for. nubsy baby, maybe buy it FOR ATC ?!?!?!?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00094379 = 11.0423 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Ken` actually they just might.
mircea_popescu: so did neobee finally issue that vaunted first quarterly statement that really shoulda been the third ?
mircea_popescu: VanCleef: someone should make a list of all the fails this year << not such a bad idea. http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/ only goes june 2011-dec 2012. there's all of 2013 to cover, plus a chunk of 2014
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18374 @ 0.00094596 = 17.3811 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: aand all caught up. that wasnt so very bad huh.
VanCleef: nice
VanCleef: must read
jurov: wasn't benkay doing it?
VanCleef: i only get till 28th of september 2012 mp
VanCleef: 8th of december sorry
bounce: ``Now, whilst some might welcome the reduction in the state caused by a loss of taxation, the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility.'' -- this widely accepted in economists' circles?
mircea_popescu: bounce only state-sponsored circles.
mircea_popescu: it's kenseyanism
mircea_popescu: austrian school holds exactly the opposite to be true. back when the us-uk alliance consisted of reagan and thatcher, the exact opposite was widely held in... amusinglyt.... the same economist circles.
bounce: seems to me a bit of a mistaking the road for the horse
VanCleef: time to update it mp
mircea_popescu: kinda yeah.
VanCleef: might take a while heh
wywialm: mircea_popescu: isn't it socialism and not keynesianism? afaik keynesianism is "the state is THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility" but only when there are aggregate demand defficiencies
VanCleef: ima make a lil list of the last 2 years anyway
MisterE: What do you do when you work at a scrapyard and someone brings in an unexploded WW2 bomb?
dexx: how comes i have the impression there are only very few successful bitcoin businesses?
VanCleef: few? that's too many
mircea_popescu: wywialm i fail to distinguish socialism and keynesianism myself.
VanCleef: maybe a couple
mircea_popescu: seems a distinction without a difference.
dexx: > they used a blow torch to try to cut open the bomb
dexx: lol
MisterE: yea, smart eh?
ozbot: Hitler MP pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ;;eauth mircea_popescu
gribble: Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:55114a79cafe0a548c8c138fea790f6468e25914906b2aa5e2198e6e
gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
wywialm: well, socialism sometimes vs socialism always is a difference even in principle and not only in quantity - the market is still the default in keynesianism
mircea_popescu: ;;rate DrahogErusiel 1 Artwork delivered.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user DrahogErusiel has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate SaltySpitoon 1 Escrow agent
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user SaltySpitoon has been recorded.
dexx: hehe
mircea_popescu: btw, someone with a forum account drop a line to salty / the artist
ozbot: portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk
mircea_popescu: or post in thread or something
mircea_popescu: wywialm arguably. just like rape always and rape sometimes are ostensibly a difference in principle and not only in quantity.
mircea_popescu: like if you keep a girl tied to a post in your basement and only rape her when she's not... willing, i guess you'd call it ?
turbo_ac100: Does google rank your site worse if I dont have the relevant TLD and do geotargeting only with webmaster tools?
turbo_ac100: *yours mine - SOME site.
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 i don't think it makes much difference.
turbo_ac100: grounded on what?
mircea_popescu: well, is .com the relevant tld for trilema ?
mircea_popescu: was .us/trilema/ relevant ?
mircea_popescu: i saw exactly 0 difference in switching.
wywialm: mircea_popescu: great comparison - though, the keynesian would maintain that the girl's always willing, only sometimes too shy to ask
mircea_popescu: right right
mircea_popescu: we don't buy that in court, so why would we buy it otherwise.
wywialm: i'm not selling keynesianism
mircea_popescu: merely the presence of "government contracts" in the us renders entire sectors state controlled/planned
mircea_popescu: and for that matter they are well aware of this, hence the entire "conquer education by federal grant" programme past 20 years
mircea_popescu: wywialm i know you aren't, but stating it for teh record.
wywialm: you're very right on the govt contracts stuff, but i suppose the regulatory burden is much heavier for the economy than plain old fiscal intervention
mircea_popescu: the state has absolutely no business in economy at all.
mircea_popescu: this entire "oh but we know better" bs is simply mindboggling.
wywialm: true as well
mircea_popescu: anyway, as technology frees more and more time, people can't resist the temptation to try and feel it with a delusion that they actually matter.
mircea_popescu: which is teh deep reason the western world slid into socialism past century or so.
mircea_popescu: s/try and feel it/try and fill it/
wywialm: but still - i'd opt for a government scandinavian style that is just fiscally opressive but much less tries to mix with the rules
bounce: well, you know. there's things that look like economics but are more important in other respects, and so the state might well step in and run the show.
mircea_popescu: til neobee had IT'S OWN REDDIT ?! http://www.reddit.com/r/neobee/
bounce: though clearly enough often enough the government has no clue either way and everyone suffers
mircea_popescu: this would be the first time reddit scammed teh btc public then ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0564 = 0.1692 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: wywialm i wouldn't.
wywialm: bounce, any examples?
mircea_popescu: yeah, examples ?
bounce: say, public transport. first you end up with lots of PT companies doing their thing and a right jumble it is. then the state steps in and puts it all under one umbrella. N years later it gets a bug up the old bum about privatisation and you end up with lots of little companies again... and worse service to higher cost.
mircea_popescu: omfg, this is beyond cute. the derps on tardstalk actually tried to like... fud s.mpoe ?!
mircea_popescu: nubbins`s sides! etc!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.04349965 = 0.261 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: bounce that's actually a great example.
bounce: or public health. you could provide good basic service to the entire population at a reasonable price (hidden in the tax bill), but if it has to be "market driven" you're certainly not going to get that. and that when it's to everyone's benefit that the workforce is healthy.
mircea_popescu: public transportation is perhaps the best way to drive that entire argument.
VanCleef: i think SatoshiIsland needs some sort of governence but it should be like a company where you hire people for the positions via very complicated hard test, previous background and experiences and these positions should be interchangable every year and performance based
VanCleef: and interviews
mircea_popescu: bounce the only way i see this to be approachable is the medieval method (still used in romania for emergency medicine say) : you hire a boss. he does whatever he wants.
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much how the guilds ran things, back when european economy actually worked. it's how romania runs emergency medicine, thge guy's name is raed arafat.
mircea_popescu: (for the exotically curious : parliament passed a law, guy went on tv to say the law fucking sucks, president called in to say well why didn't you tell me! let's iron it out!". it was a sight, the whole thing. )
wywialm: bounce: i can't see any economic justification for things turning that way. The evolution of PT in Poland is a direct proof to the contrary - a few efficient contractors in the bigger cities and between them, successfully coping with ever-increasing regulation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SMG] 2980 @ 0.000081 = 0.2414 BTC [-] {11}
bounce: heh. guilds have the same problem as, well, anything else that gets power. it tends to become more important to hold onto power (by whichever means) which eventually might come at the cost of the thing they exist for
mircea_popescu: wywialm you familiar with the dumping issue ?
bounce: so I'll buy that as a vivid example of getting the right knowledge at the right place, but don't buy the form as a solve-all.
mircea_popescu: bounce there's no solve all, outside of poincarre's.
wywialm: and regarding emergency medicine: i agree with mircea_popescu, adding that the most probable explanation for this are large economies of scale and perhaps public good as well
bounce: basic healt care at any rate. the frivolous stuff, less so. and there's always the risk of glossing over the rare but expensive medical cases
bounce: s/lt/&h/
wywialm: at least partially, and as far as i managed to research it, i believe it's a non-issue, perhaps you could point to something convincing me to believe otherwise?
mircea_popescu: wywialm let me formalise it for the sake of public discussion.
mircea_popescu: admitting for the sake of argument that competition happens on measurable parameters of defined products, all businesses will normally compete on operational efficiency
mircea_popescu: whoever manages to produce x as defined cheapest wins most of the market.
mircea_popescu: however, if dumping is allowed, then company Y could sell product X for 0. inasmuch as none of its competitors have more money in the bank, they would necessarily go out of business.
mircea_popescu: as a de facto monopoly, Y can now charge infinity for X.
mircea_popescu: this will drive new competitors in the market, of crouse, but the system has two major problems :
mircea_popescu: one is that a competition on operational efficiency has been transformed in a simple financial competition of "who can support dumping longer"
mircea_popescu: and moreover, the entire point of the economy is to close the zero-infinity price window as soon as possible.
wywialm: well, it's very conditional of market organisation - barriers to entry for example
mircea_popescu: this goes against that.
mircea_popescu: yes, but as a model, this is the economical reason you were asking for earlier.
mircea_popescu: there does in fact exist *an* economical reason for things to play out that way.
mircea_popescu: not necessarily strong enough for it to happen too often, or even at all. but factually, it does exist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94778 @ 0.00094343 = 89.4164 BTC [-] {2}
wywialm: as a theoretical possiblity - i agree. but empirically, i have never seen it done
mircea_popescu: it's how supermarkets work, fundamentally, all across the world. they drive out small shops in phase 1, with low prices
mircea_popescu: they take advantage of the captive market they created, afterwards.
bounce: and regularly attack each other with the same trick afterward
mircea_popescu: phase 1 lasts 3-5 years, and is actually evaluated as part of the financing of a new development.
bounce: it's not quite 0..inf but it does happen all the time
wywialm: have a look at education, for example - govt is permanently dumping the sector, there are no expectations to the reversal of the course and yet it doesn't manage to win the whole market
mircea_popescu: this is why the us sucks, basically. it, not having ancient microstructure in place, turned into a sprawl hellhole
mircea_popescu: european style towns where commercial and residential zones are not separated are rare in the us
mircea_popescu: wywialm it is not dumping the whole sector. even if mcdonald sold for free i wouldn't patronise them. i stll eat at good restaurants.
mircea_popescu: in fact, mcdonalss DOES sell for free in most of the us, it does more business as a proxy for usg welfare than anything else.
mircea_popescu: same for all the ff chains.
wywialm: but the product differentiation is a good defense against dumping, as it can work only in very simple markets, food and education is not one of them
mircea_popescu: depends.
mircea_popescu: we're dumping the shit out of high-end btc education in this chan, for instance.
wywialm: and i believe the 0..inf is never an option, the dumping winners can charge only a monopoly rent afterwards, having erected (rather weak) barriers to entry
mircea_popescu: it's part of my evil strategy of preventing the usg from ever mattering in this space.
wywialm: in a well-developed economy capital requrements are much less significant barrier, for example
bounce: you're saying the us gov't *cannot possibly* learn?
mircea_popescu: it does get complicated real quick just as soon as one tries to take the theoretical model to the actual market
mircea_popescu: which is why economy is such metaphysics.
mircea_popescu: bounce it can not possibly afford to pay people that can outcompete us in teaching.
bounce: economists do tend to get a bit hung up on solutions without really getting down to the structure of the underlying drivers
mircea_popescu: which brings in an interesting side point : recently the us propaganda press ran a story comparing military spending, showing the us as the sum of europe and other states.
mircea_popescu: the quietly glossed over point being, of course, that a dollar of usg spending does not buy it a dollar of rl value.
mircea_popescu: i buy at a discount, often significant. they buy at a premium, always significant.
mircea_popescu: this and other imbalances make it so that the usg can not actually afford to compete in this particular market.
bounce: governments tend to do that. but how does the premium between us and eu gov'ts compare?
wywialm: thats funny that govt always points to costs and expenditures as something inherently positive
bounce: (at least what little I've seen of economists... let's see if I still have that impression in a year or so, say)
bounce: well, aren't they the drivers of the economy? so money raked in and tossed out is driving the economy, surely?
wywialm: hope we'll continue this fascinating discussion sometime later, i'll be going now
mircea_popescu: wywialm indeed. very funny.
mircea_popescu: bounce so they propose. like you know, the plowing fly proposes its exertions drive the ox.
wywialm: bye
bounce: it's a bit dishonest, really. like the nth level manager proclaiming he did all the work. much rather he'd just admit others did the work, he just make the work effective. which is nothing to sneeze at if done well.
bounce: s/make/helped &/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 18 @ 0.01400945 = 0.2522 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00094386 = 15.1018 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 118 @ 0.00088447 = 0.1044 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00094958 = 20.321 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.57975513 = 3.4785 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.57228777 = 14.8795 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00571686 = 1.1434 BTC [-] {5}
ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
ozbot: My new TREZOR
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 340 @ 0.00088646 = 0.3014 BTC [+] {5}
Namworld: That comic looks spot on.
MisterE: MS is still dumping Xbox afaik
MisterE: sold at a loss for years
chetty: mircea_popescu, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553092.20// when are getting a medal from the foundation for taking the heat?
mircea_popescu: i think they only have medals perpared for the surprisingly-arrested
mircea_popescu: nothing designed for the surprisingly-not-arrested
Guest17831: one thing i dont get, is why he'd be stepping down for death threats, before anyone was worried about the rumors
Guest17831: doesnt quite add up
mircea_popescu: o look at that, scott adams trying to kaching on things that are happening but he can't be bothered to understand
mircea_popescu: how very hot topic of him.
chetty: sure it does, 2+2=5, no?
mircea_popescu: Guest15829 classical scammer talk. "the scam would have been fine if it weren't for the evil interlopers fud"
Guest17831: also, he says he covered for the locked coins in BF/Gox
Guest17831: but then says if he had them there would be enough money
Guest17831: and wraps up it up in a neat little bow by saying he wants to sell his stake
mircea_popescu: it's very simple : "if you people were nice i'd have paid for this out of pocket but because you were mean i am not so neeneer"
mircea_popescu: just about at the conceptual level of the average bitcointard.
Guest17831: he should just pass his stake to Neo, it has no value with all that debt anyway
mircea_popescu: obviously "what's best for his fambly" is trying to make a split anyway.
mircea_popescu: hardly teh point. i dunno why all these scammor dudes imagine that's an argument. yes dude, if we wanted to feed your fambly we'd have just donated you the btc.
mircea_popescu: next time when you're out to do "what's best for your fambly" go ask for donations. ceos do what's best for their shareholders.
Guest17831: i didnt verify my nick now that i set enforce on :(
Guest17831: how long must i wait!
Namworld: April 1, nice date for such a topic, chetty.
mircea_popescu: just say release
mircea_popescu: /msg NickServ release nick
Namworld: Herp has a rating agency? He forgot derp in the title for Herp Derp Rating Agency
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.5710002 = 2.284 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: wait. hadn't danny claimed that they had lost nothing on mtgox
mircea_popescu: "because the signs were there" ?
mircea_popescu: way to prove oneself a liar jeez.
mircea_popescu: i mean stupid is one thing. hard to hide, already well known, no big deal. but a liar is a different story.
ThickAsThieves: well he manages to say it both ways in this post
ThickAsThieves: that any losses were personal
VanCleef: another bitcoin classic diaster
ThickAsThieves: but if he had the coins lost everything wouold be ok
ThickAsThieves: did he cover the losses but not cover them?
mircea_popescu: that's besides the point.
VanCleef: i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday
mircea_popescu: two weeks ago he claimed no funds were lost in gox. today he claims funds were lost in gox.
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the end of hte line.
VanCleef: i heard he doesn't even have a daughter
Mats_cd03: so much for limited liability
ThickAsThieves: he has a daughter
chetty: VanCleef, i trust banks and wallstreet more and more everyday // at least you know you will be cheated, in btc space its still an open question
ThickAsThieves: if it werent for the handful of people not cheating, btc would be much easier to read
ThickAsThieves: i blame mp!
ThickAsThieves: youre what makes scamming possibru
VanCleef: at least wallstreet and banks take off your pants first before fucking you in the ass, bitcoiners make you wear a pair of jeans first
VanCleef: just a bunch of cowards hiding behind their computers
ThickAsThieves: wow even TradeFortress posted in a Neo thread
mircea_popescu: i should intradite myself.
VanCleef: i hope tf got fucked over
ThickAsThieves: well he aint in jail, soooo
VanCleef: like the jizz sock that he is
Mats_cd03: ;;tell artifexd irccloud
Mats_cd03: ;;later tell artifexd irccloud
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00094652 = 12.0681 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: brunettes make the best blondes.
Mats_cd03: i dont discriminate based on hair color
Mats_cd03: all boobies are legal in my jurisdiction
ozbot: BitBet, March 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: the hopefully final-final restatement of that thing jesus.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3555 @ 0.00012411 = 0.4412 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17248 @ 0.00094719 = 16.3371 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)
chetty: "but if it weren't for the trolls it appears that it could have still managed."
mircea_popescu: well at least sa is having fun.
ThickAsThieves: "MP should buy Neo and Bee and be the next CEO."
ThickAsThieves: so backwards, this buying of the company concept
pankkake: kakobrekla was also nominated as Cognitive new CEO
mircea_popescu: so basically "mp is the only solvent entity in bitcoin finance we would like us to spend his money just as we whine about how mean and evil he is" ?
mircea_popescu: sounds a whole fucking lot like socialism to me.
mircea_popescu: congrats, western world, this is what you've built.
mircea_popescu: now go beat up your children and send them naked i nthe street to earn a living
mircea_popescu: it'll be for their own good.
ThickAsThieves: it's like multi-layered thought is no longer possible
ThickAsThieves: just one level
ThickAsThieves: the lizards are taking over!
chetty: ThickAsThieves, nah that happened a long time ago
mircea_popescu: isn't bitcoin great tho ? it empowers me to literaly urinate all over their faces.
mircea_popescu: were it not for bitcoin, i'm sure some elected official or other would have thought this is "prudent".
ThickAsThieves: to be honest i still get shaken that bitcoin just wont work because humans
mircea_popescu: it'll work just fine.
mircea_popescu: those humans will just make very fine human skin lampshades is all.
mircea_popescu: it was always about the salvation of the worthy, never about the salvation of the flock as a whole.
ThickAsThieves: so many of them, so few of us
ThickAsThieves: i hope yer right though
ThickAsThieves: odds are in your favor
ThickAsThieves: that's for sure
mircea_popescu: well technically there are more chickens too.
ThickAsThieves: indeed indeed
ThickAsThieves: one more thing to worry about, thanks!
mircea_popescu: The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, bangladesh and nigeria are in the top 15)
VanCleef: fuck sake securities thread is mostly made up of neobee and activemining threads
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if this forum investor IPO thing is over now
ThickAsThieves: to be clear,
mircea_popescu: just like in the old glbse blowup days lol
ThickAsThieves: i do think scams will still come around
ThickAsThieves: but the audience is gone
ThickAsThieves: no room for notable ones
ThickAsThieves: the forum is like 5 guys with 500 accounts
ThickAsThieves: and .5 bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067 = 0.201 BTC [+]
VanCleef: probably hey
jborkl: mircea_popescu> The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations estimated that in 2002 there were nearly sixteen billion chickens in the world, counting a total population of 15,853,900,000 < I wonder how many people taxpayers employed to count all the chickens?
jborkl: :)
VanCleef: lets face it bitcoin is only good for scamming
VanCleef: hope the price goes to 0
ThickAsThieves: vancleef what i'm saying is, how much more scamming can there really be
ThickAsThieves: Wall Streets turn i guess
mircea_popescu: jborkl well most of this is farmed, you know ? they're reported anyway, for various regulatory purposes
VanCleef: wallstreet is much safe than bitcoiners
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves we said (or moreover, hoped) exactly the same 3-4 times already.
jborkl: yeah I know
VanCleef: they'll always be scams and suckers
mircea_popescu: the collection of dr foreskins, ie, pompous if clueless nobodies, is endless.
mircea_popescu: hence the story of pointless and witless.
CheckDavid: Why is gold more popular than platinum in finance?
VanCleef: thanks to this bitcoin shit, scamming has become alot easier
ThickAsThieves: i guess the next rallies will bring the new blood
ThickAsThieves: the menstrual cycle of money
mircea_popescu: exactly. the forum had been negligible btc anyway, for a long time now.
VanCleef: yeh the rally scam
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid "more popular" ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1477 @ 0.00012185 = 0.18 BTC [-] {6}
jborkl: but that means somedud is out there chocking his chicken 16 billion times to make nuggets
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: lack of a better term :(
mircea_popescu: jborkl actually it's mostly automatred now. most chickens in the world touch a human inside the mouth for the first time in their... existence.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid but what were you trying to say
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5831 @ 0.00011783 = 0.6871 BTC [-] {11}
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: for example. I rarely see platinum as an instrument on brokers. But gold is very common
CheckDavid: Gold is always mentioned historically as a store of value and currency
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 957 @ 0.00011196 = 0.1071 BTC [-] {5}
chetty: I dont think bitcoin has more scams that other things, its just more visible, to us
VanCleef: man i'm so sick of scams, i try and do the right thing and not be scammy and support this bitcoin shit but its just full of fucking animals
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid are you trying to ask why isn't platinum a monetary metal ?
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: maybe. Let's put it that way. I m just looking for some perspective
VanCleef: from now on whenver a mainstrea person asks me about bitcoin i'm just going to tell them to stay away from it because its all just bullshit and lies and a pyramid scheme and full of pos scammers
VanCleef: fuck you satoshi
mircea_popescu: because gold is, and there can only be one.
mircea_popescu: VanCleef who was going to ask you ?
VanCleef: i get asked about it from mom and pop investors
VanCleef: i didn't even invest in neobee but just so sick and tired of all the scams all the time
VanCleef: fucking animals
mircea_popescu: so you didn't invest,w hat do you care.
mircea_popescu: and what's some random dork, long exposed anyway, have to do with bitcoin
VanCleef: the whole bitcoin industry
mike_c: just tell them to stay away from havelock, it's not hard.
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: what about platinum vs silver?
VanCleef: havelock will shut down this year
VanCleef: i want to work at a government agency and bring bitcoin down
VanCleef: sick of it
mircea_popescu: probably too expensive per ounce
CheckDavid: So it's a matter of volume mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: silver is appealing to poor people in the manner ltc is appealing to kids with gpus
CheckDavid: I see
mircea_popescu: platinum does not share that trait.
mike_c: while i'm shilling bitbet, these are outrageously good odds on 'yes'. http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/
CheckDavid: And maybe it's not ' beautiful' as good
pankkake: so, when will there be a gold future on mpex? will it be called pmex? :)
CheckDavid: *gold
mircea_popescu: weren't all the good teams in the west ?
mike_c: except miami heat and indiana pacers
mircea_popescu: pankkake just as soon as someone with an actual gold business grows some balls.
mircea_popescu: indiana pacers is now a good team !?
mircea_popescu: (i last followed nba cca 1993, cause i was playing some pretty cool simulator for the pc.
mircea_popescu: it had byrd and johnson etc)
ozbot: Crocker's rules - Lesswrongwiki
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i can ask him if he'd accept ATC... what's 6BTC worth of ATC these days, anyway?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094554 = 16.1687 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: like 100 satoshi per atc afaik ?
mircea_popescu: but i dun recall wha we're discussing here
nubbins`: also, i got this weird twinge in my sides at 11:54, strange
nubbins`: me rebuying a casascius coin
mircea_popescu: o o hehe
nubbins`: "hello sir plz to rebuy"
pankkake: 6BTC is probably the whole ATC market cap!
mircea_popescu: just a bout.
ThickAsThieves: nonsense, i'll sell 10% of my ATC for 6btc
nubbins`: well, i tell ya what. there's this guy, see, and he wants to sell a coin
nubbins`: altho TBF if he's realized he just blew too big of a wad and wants $$ back, i think ATC will be a bit of a hard sell
ozbot: $50 for $50 Fine Silver Coin - Polar Bear (2014)
nubbins`: i really like these "face for face" silver coins
ozbot: Study: Vegetarians Less Healthy, Lower Quality Of Life Than Meat-Eaters « CBS Atlanta
nubbins`: ahahah lel @ portrait mp
Namworld: I'm not sure why you're so pissed VanCleef... Bitcoin acts like cash but digital. hard to get back, no reversal mechanism.
ThickAsThieves: chetty read the paper
Namworld: People borrowing/wanting cash for their business/family/whatever. Even friends/family often. You then have to run after the money/never see it again.
ThickAsThieves: the study represents about 31 vegetarians
pankkake: so the study doesn't even even try to separate other factors (i.e. vegetarians being more physically active and health conscious, while non vegetarians includes mcdonalds eating couch potatoes)
Namworld: The issue is people fail to realize Bitcoin isn't like banks, it's like cash for the digital space.
ThickAsThieves: it also doesnt separate whether those vegetarians became such to help with said health problems
mike_c: ;;create bitbet "The dilbert comic from April 2nd will be posted in b-a more than 10 times"
ThickAsThieves: for example i'm pretty sure going whole food vegan reduces allergies
ThickAsThieves: not adds them
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings
Namworld: Sending Bitcoins to Neobee is like investing cash in the guy screaming on the street corner he's starting a bank. He start by buying pamphlets and distributing them for advertising the business, hyping and taking further cash in.
Namworld: Most of the time, the appearance of being professional, having offices and all is pure artifice and money wasting.
Namworld: The forum is like the street, don't invest lots of cash with anyone you meet with good sounding claims.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i thought it wasn't that bad rly.
Namworld: Scams aside, if you're not doing any kind of lending/investing, BTC can be very secure and works very well in the digital space for wealth transfer.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves dun hate jus' because your life quality is lower :D
ThickAsThieves: well how would i know anyway
ThickAsThieves: my life is my life
mircea_popescu: damaged lifegoods
chetty: typical of whats being put out as 'science' these days actually
pankkake: Namworld: reminds me of Shooting Fish
mircea_popescu: on the let's lulz @wikipedia angle : article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mircea_Popescu&action=history 12kb, untouched since last month.
pankkake: a movie about scammers; they get investors but everything is faked
mircea_popescu: article about how there shouldn't be an article about mp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mircea_Popescu&action=history 19kb, updated daily.
chetty: ThickAsThieves, I actually did 5ish years as vegetarian, it was fine health wise
mircea_popescu: almsot as good trollage as the forum on display.
mircea_popescu: pankkake wasn't that wall street ?
mircea_popescu: (1980s film)
VanCleef: sorry namworld bit emotional
pankkake: it's a british movie
pankkake: haven't seen wall street
mircea_popescu: no wait not the 80s one
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.5715001 = 4.572 BTC [+] {2}
VanCleef: boiler room is a good movie
mircea_popescu: yeah that one!
mircea_popescu: wd cleefsy.
nubbins`: hmm i think my homo zebra needs a cigarette
mircea_popescu: long cigholder ?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: just a plain ol' cig
nubbins`: a dart, if you will
mircea_popescu: that. srsly.
mircea_popescu: he's so working class it bleeds.
nubbins`: ah, a hepburn/thompson
nubbins`: so the power button on my cellular telephone has been working only intermittently these past weeks
Namworld: I got hit hard when I joined the forum. Didn't expect what I stumbled upon. It seems everyone are connected with sock puppets. Mostly artifices.
nubbins`: on the bright side, a replacement part is only $25
nubbins`: on the dim side, it requires a complete dismantling of the phone
Mats_cd03: reminds me of an opium pipe
Mats_cd03: but, you know, small.
Namworld: Should have been more careful. Kind of expected "high risk", should have expected "ludicrous risk".
ozbot: Canadian Brad Katsuyama in spotlight over 'rigged' markets allegation - Business - CBC News
Namworld: Speaking of life quality, by all estimates, I won't be lacking funds in the future. But as long as that's not a reality and is just on paper, my living standards are pretty low. Well according to local standards anyway.
Namworld: I could probably live better on much less if I moved to another country.
nubbins`: Namworld this is generally true of anyone living in a "first world" country
nubbins`: doubly so if you're in a "first world neighbourhood" of said country
Namworld: I'm in a poorer area of the city, but far from the poorest.
nubbins`: due to the wonders of gradual gentrification, there are very few "poor areas" in my city larger than a block or so
nubbins`: generally it's a mix of poor drug addicts and professionals
thestringpuller: lol "gentrification"
nubbins`: nice word hey?
nubbins`: "making it fit for the gentry"
nubbins`: same root as "gentleman"
nubbins`: but srsly. there's maybe 40 houses on my dead-end street, property values ranging from $80k to $250k
Namworld: Going to stay like that until I at least repay all my debts. Probably going to stay like that for a while after I repay my debts. You make sure you have no debts and the business is well and you have a nice cushion.
diametric: nubbins`: sounds like you're talking about Baltimore.
nubbins`: diametric: sure, except we don't really have black people here
Namworld: Then you can live well, not the other way around.
Namworld: Otherwise you jeopardize everything.
thestringpuller: Namworld: 0 debt? What if you need credit for a large project.
nubbins`: something like 1% of the population of st john's is black
thestringpuller: I'd assume as long as you make a profit despite capital expenses, credit/debt can be good sometimes
Namworld: Ideally you don't. Although I haven't had problem getting credit.
diametric: It's pretty incredible to look at. In on block you'll see very expensive homes, rich white people walking expensive toy dogs. Go one block down, and you have thugs peddling herion on the corner and prostitutes blowing dudes in the alley.
Namworld: But yes, I agree.
thestringpuller: I guess "short-term" credit is much better than "long term"
nubbins`: diametric: that sounds nice
thestringpuller: given taking short term credit is for expenses leading to a profit and not just buying Ferrari
diametric: nubbins`: Its even better because the crime rarely crosses the boundary of the block because the police and criminals have an informal pact. They don't mess with the gentrified areas, the police don't mess with their shitholes.
nubbins`: everybody's happy except the poor people who aren't criminals!
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094107 / 0.00094958 (958718 shares, 902.23 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7302745 shares, 6,885.75 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087815 / 0.00096 (30017455 shares, 26,360.00 BTC)
thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094554 BTC [-]
diametric: nubbins`: exactly
VanCleef: neobee was a pretty shitty name anyway
Namworld: If you make largesses to yourself, you go "Boohoo, I've run out of funds, spending everything on advertising and a big salary to myself, now there's nothing left. I'm sorry. So sad." Like neobee and the like.
ThickAsThieves: the name was actually just Neo
Mats_cd03: what, you don't think hamsterdam (a la The Wired) would work?
nubbins`: Mats_cd03 not without an omar ;(
Mats_cd03: (i personally do -- that reality has played out thousands of times in thousands of jurisdictions)
VanCleef: Neo & Morpheus
Namworld: I'll still call it Neobee. Neo never existed anyway, or came close to fruition.
nubbins`: what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms?
VanCleef: lol nubbins
pankkake: first time I loled to a morpheus meme!
Namworld: and in Danny's fat salary?
Namworld: How much was he paying himself anyway?
nubbins`: you'll never find out
mike_c: unless tat tells us
VanCleef: nubbins
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
pankkake: VanCleef: too simple to be funny
Apocalyptic: anyone knows if the blockr.io guys hang out on IRC ?
Namworld: I still owe so much BTC. Not happy about it.
mike_c: kakobrekla is somehow related
jurov: pankkake no these are supposed to be deep wisdoms
ThickAsThieves: <mike_c> unless tat tells us /// that kinda info resided with Neo, I assume
Namworld looks at Ukyo
jurov: everyone says to swim against the stream. no one says, make sure you know the direction first
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: you didn't know anything non-public about their financials?
Apocalyptic: doubtful
jurov: mike_c TAT got away to avoid investigation. you expect him to say he knows internal info?
mike_c: no. silly question.
VanCleef: i remember on the second day of neobee ipo i called it a scamm and tat put me on ignore for trolling
VanCleef: apology accepted
pankkake: what made you think it was a scam then?
VanCleef: i cant remmeber was a while ago
ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure scam is an appropriate term, however liberally some would like to use it
ThickAsThieves: but the story isnt over yet it seems
Namworld: I'm down a lot of my debt. I have last requests to fulfill. And a lot of people who never replied to me about it.
VanCleef: alot of neobee problems seems to be related to bitfunder and ukyo as well
Namworld: TAT must be satisfied. But a few of my larger lenders are going to get pissed. At least I think so? They don't seem to ask/be in a hurry about it a lot.
nubbins`: busy filing paperwork
jurov: not to mention passthrough shareholders
Namworld: As for most others who lent me smaller amounts... I typically have to run after them for repaying them?
Namworld: Yes, passthrough holders too.
jurov: everyone is so accustomed to scam that they don't even think of researching if we don't offer repayment
Namworld: I send them messages asking about claiming/repaying them and never receive replies...
Namworld: Sometimes for hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of BTC.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.067 = 0.603 BTC [-]
nubbins`: so put a time limit on your next message and wash your hands if they don't reply
Namworld: If I harass them for a few months, they eventually reply, "oh yeah, right, why not? I'll take it."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6554 @ 0.00010534 = 0.6904 BTC [-] {17}
Namworld: I'd probably go with Canadian laws about unclaimed debt. Not sure how long it is, but probably a few years.
ThickAsThieves: i had someone redeem 1 BF TAT.ASICMINER share today
Namworld: Keep the list a few years. It's just a file. Not a problem keeping it.
ThickAsThieves: a rare occurence now
ThickAsThieves: but some people eventually claim their shit
Namworld: Like, what are people doing? Giving money around to whine against scammers, and when it's not a scam, go "That one is nice. Will leave them my money."
VanCleef: someone give us something good to invest in
thestringpuller: why don't you make your own shit to invest in
Namworld: If I had something good to invest in, I'd probably take it all to myself...
VanCleef: thestringpuller cause i dont want to scam people
Namworld: not share it around. Not before having invested as much as I could reasonably do first.
thestringpuller: VanCleef: how would you scam niggas if you are only investing in your own product?
nubbins`: VanCleef: invest in your future, don't wait for someone else to do it :D
VanCleef: well i'm not a technical person
nubbins`: doesn't matter
nubbins`: learn a trade
VanCleef: so i cant make anything
thestringpuller: nubbins` isn't technical
thestringpuller: but he's good at making art
thestringpuller: as he just said learn a trade
VanCleef: like what?
thestringpuller: what do you like to do?
nubbins`: TBF i worked as a programmer for 5 years
VanCleef: i just like jizzing
Namworld: Fuck, I'm even wearing rags, come to think of it.
thestringpuller: make porn then
nubbins`: but i dislike corporate like
nubbins`: *life
ThickAsThieves: go work at a zoo
thestringpuller: i'm sure mp would invest in it
ThickAsThieves: as a amonkey
VanCleef: no money in porn when its free on the internet
Namworld: My clothes are full of holes.
nubbins`: VanCleef: well, y'know, get a list of trades that are in demand and pick one
mike_c: throw a dart at the mpex security list and invest.
nubbins`: you know all those idiots driving around in F350 pickups? they did it
VanCleef: hmmm
Namworld: Bail out my lenders, take over my debt.
nubbins`: not sure about where you live, but there's a nation-wide shortage of skilled tradespeople in canada
nubbins`: you can make $80k a year just doing electrical work on a job site
nubbins`: or welding, w/e
VanCleef: no thanks nubbins
VanCleef: i already have a good job at subway
nubbins`: one of those words didn't belong in that sentence
Namworld: oh, yes. Electrician/plumber/welders/etc get high pay in Canada.
Namworld: Like better than tech sector/accountant/lawyers/doctors often.
Namworld: welders, not that high, but electrician/plumber for sure.
VanCleef: i think sfi will be the next scam to fall
nubbins`: shit, substitute teachers make $35-40/hr
nubbins`: Namworld: underwater welding is where it's at these days
Namworld: But welders still get a good pay.
Namworld: oh, underwater. Well yes.
VanCleef: i read you can make 100k working in a laundry room on an oil rig
VanCleef: but yeh just looking for bitcoin related security to invest in
VanCleef: no a job or career
nubbins`: VanCleef i have a friend who did a 3-year ROV course at a local college
nubbins`: he paid off his student loans in three months WASHING DISHES on a supply boat.
Namworld: If you don't mind living on an oil rig, yeah, I suppose.
VanCleef: money isn't a problem
VanCleef: just asking what to invest in
nubbins`: well
nubbins`: nothing.
nubbins`: seriously.
VanCleef: mmmk
nubbins`: not joking
Namworld: Well you could take over my BTC debt. It's BTC denominated.
Apocalyptic: VanCleef, gimme money
nubbins`: throw some money down on some bitbets
nubbins`: there's 5.5btc up for grabs on the s.mg VWAP bet, and that's closing around the time chetty said the next release is coming out
Apocalyptic: more seriously though, if you have to ask what to invest in, it's probably better not to invest at all
VanCleef: yeh true apo
VanCleef: maybe i should sponser a hackathon thingy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.47941077 BTC to 4`937 shares, 50221 satoshi per share
VanCleef shrugs
drkow: my girlfriend had 20k burning a hole in her pocket and invested it at some bank last week, I can't wait for her to lose it so I can laugh
Namworld: I doubt you can fullfill buying my debt in any meaningful fashion tho.
nubbins`: ...you can't wait for your girlfriend to lose twenty thousand dollars... so you can laugh at her?
ThickAsThieves: thats idiotic to say
nubbins` raises eyebrow
VanCleef: maybe i should start investing in the stock market
nubbins`: maybe you should create a diverse portfolio like an adult would
thestringpuller: the only thing to invest in is MPOE
Apocalyptic: the stock market is so inflated it hurts
thestringpuller: and that might bubble if too many people start dumping money in it
VanCleef: we're already in a bailout bubble
thestringpuller: ;;google vim golf
gribble: VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: <http://vimgolf.com/>; Changelog, Rules & FAQ - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every ...: <http://vimgolf.com/about>; Leaderboard - VimGolf - real Vim ninjas count every keystroke!: <http://vimgolf.com/top>
thestringpuller: nubbins`: what do you charge for screen printing?
thestringpuller: like what's the upfront per screen fee, and cost per shirt?
nubbins`: varies based on quantity and number of colors. generally there's a flat setup fee of $40, plus $15 for each extra color after the first
nubbins`: blank shirts are $5 for regular, $7 for organic, plus printing labor
nubbins`: ink costs, etc
nubbins`: if you had some numbers in mind, i could give you numbers bac
VanCleef: cool nubbins you make shirts?
nubbins`: shirts, posters, download cards, cd/vinyl sleeves, books, w/e
VanCleef: i have a friend starting his clothing label looking to me to outsource it for him
nubbins`: you'd probably get a better price from a local company, since they wouldn't have to ship the product to you
VanCleef: yeh nice
ozbot: Bitcoin Q1 2014
benkay: ;;gpg eauth benkay
gribble: Request successful for user benkay, hostmask benkay!~user@216-161-94-151.ptld.qwest.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/39F274AFBC7ACAC7
benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:9b1f48c2d3f7308c2bfc37b583412ab487e081fbf3942171827ad295
gribble: Error: Incorrect one-time password. Try again.
benkay: morning.
benkay: wat
VanCleef: yeh true nubbins
benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13dc0a8f650d9a3d5bc25aa33a2bb9b6b90e2985d8f072845fe7fad9
gribble: You are now authenticated for user benkay with key 39F274AFBC7ACAC7
nubbins`: "despite it processing buttloads and buttloads of btc-denominated bets"
nubbins`: what's the buttload-to-btc rate these days?
nubbins`: hm, apparently roughly 1:1
benkay: whatever i want :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0436 = 0.1308 BTC [+]
benkay: hey does anyone have a concise "merge commits suck and you suck for producing them" on tap?
pankkake: no, but I'd like to
pankkake: also one of the reasons I hate github
benkay: i have a contractor whose hand needs to either be slapped or held, can't decide yet.
pankkake: worst is merge commits with nothing
benkay: pankkake: what does github have to do with merge commits?
pankkake: just a bad git pull
pankkake: you can merge pull requests from the web interface
pankkake: and it creates a github merge commit
benkay: ah
benkay: eh i'm not so hateful about that. it's nice to have a point at which the test branch was merged into master to point at.
benkay: it's the dev fucking with the test branch generating oodles of 'merging XXX of remote into XXX'
pankkake: but it gets for every little fix - actually little fixes are extremely insuited to pull requests
pankkake: just let me send a .patch…
benkay: sure sure
benkay: but apparently people can't even email any more
benkay: much less send patches over email
benkay: so here's the problem: people working on css do not understand or care about complexities of version control
benkay: nor, probably, should they.
benkay: (open to argument on that one. i don't know anything anyways.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00094423 = 27.2882 BTC [-] {2}
VanCleef: i actually like pankkake idea getting paid to troll
pankkake: I worked with a css guy that mastered version control, it's great but indeed rare
VanCleef: id love to setup a call centre in india doing that
benkay: ;;later tell blackwhite remind me to ask you about pricing models some day
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pankkake: VanCleef: never happened and isn't open to business now
benkay: pankkake: sounds dangerously close to actually learning how to program :D :D :D
VanCleef: do you think the idea could work?
VanCleef: i might steal it
benkay: VanCleef: don't even need a call center. just a few effective humans somewhere cheap.
benkay: course
benkay: "effective"
benkay: "cheap"
pankkake: benkay: yeah, he knew how to. which is why I loved working with him: the CSS he was writing made sense. I almost never had to touch it, because it was thought for what was going to be written
VanCleef: troll patrol inc
benkay: VanCleef: do it.
pankkake: anyway, with git you can rewrite commits etc., so perhaps you could have some sort of staging branch for those who don't understand git
VanCleef: yeh maybe benkay
benkay: client ain't gonna pay for that
benkay: easier to crack the whip on new devs than get client to pay for vcs maintenance
pankkake: still they might have to rebase one day
VanCleef: troll/hyping service
pankkake: VanCleef: I don't think many have the funds for it
VanCleef: to pay for the serivce or set it up?
pankkake: to pay for the service
VanCleef: just like having a marketing budget
bounce: er. this is the usual "never time to do it right the first time, always time to do it again later, at higher cost" argument. yet somehow there's always room for people with clue. funny how that works.
pankkake: my theory is that smart clients don't outsource anyways
pankkake: but perhaps I'm jaded by past experiences
VanCleef: hmmm
benkay: just do less, but do it right.
bounce: at the very least they'll be picky about whom they outsource to
benkay: i like smart clients who know nothing about compute.
pankkake: doing less, but shipping on time, have less bugs etc. = happy client
pankkake: the issue is that you don't have to overpromise first
benkay: yeah f overpromising.
benkay: f overdelivering.
pankkake: I was fed up with having to fill overpromises I didn't make
pankkake: the worst was when my estimates were modified without my knowledge
benkay: ho ho ho
benkay: that's a funny one
pankkake: reasoning: "we need to have the contract, it will bring more business later"
bounce waits for a couple of /good/ devs and assorted other techies to team up and find themselves /competent/ management to lord it over them. that'll be the day.
pankkake: bounce: I know a few companies like that
benkay: bounce: the only solution is to be the competent management you wish to see in the world :)
bounce: no, that's not the only solution. far from it. but understanding that with good management you achieve more is a prerequisite.
benkay: i hear you.
pankkake: what I've seen is: people who know each other for years, start a company, struggle a lot but at least they enjoy it
pankkake: no recruiting outside the web of trust basically
bounce: that might work. it might also end in tears.
pankkake: yeah. lots of drama too
pankkake: sometimes
bounce: well, that's very limiting. what you need to do is very picky who you pick for what task. including picking promising newbies and give them leeway to earn (or lose) trust.
benkay: bounce: if you go that route you gotta set aside the time for mentorship and training as well.
bounce: ayup. but if you don't... you have more fires to put out. those aren't free either.
thestringpuller: lol never do business in btc outside web of trust
thestringpuller: benkay: would you rather the homie rebase the commits?
benkay: i don't really care
benkay: don't pollute test or master with your damn merge commits
benkay: i think i'm just going to say: 'see this? stop it.'
bounce: git patch output over email to the mentor
benkay: feelings be damned, he's not even my contractor.
thestringpuller: so tell him to do --no-ff or something
blackwhite: morning gents
pankkake: you could provide a .gitconfig wich prevents those by default
MisterE: fun market today ;)
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 443.0, Best ask: 445.57, Bid-ask spread: 2.57000, Last trade: 443.0, 24 hour volume: 26274.54235203, 24 hour low: 440.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 468.462041006
thestringpuller: damn missing out on all the buying opportunity
MisterE: yea
MisterE: I'm gonna take a big GULP
thestringpuller: damn 50 USD spread over 24 hours
thestringpuller: market is becoming volatile
MisterE: down that much in 6
thestringpuller: volume is relatively low though...
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00093355 / 0.00094123 / 0.00094958 (896526 shares, 843.84 BTC), 7D: 0.00092844 / 0.00094289 / 0.00095866 (7325348 shares, 6,907.07 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00087825 / 0.00096 (30005155 shares, 26,352.03 BTC)
thestringpuller: $depth mpoe
mpexbot: thestringpuller: S.MPOE Bids: ['15650 @ 0.000944', '1292 @ 0.00094275', '29800 @ 0.00094126', '25400 @ 0.000939', '30700 @ 0.00093838']
mpexbot: thestringpuller: Asks: ['23152 @ 0.00094554', '16100 @ 0.00094958', '11500 @ 0.00095027', '35600 @ 0.00095069', '118611 @ 0.00096']
MisterE: LTC is a bloodbath lel
benkay: still gotta bleed out all of the enthusiasm of 2012
thestringpuller: enthusiasm? 2012 was frightening
thestringpuller: nothing compares to pirate's default...
jborkl: idk $266 to $50 was rough
jborkl: in a day
jborkl: but yeah $13 to $7? with pirate was pretty nasty, I thought it was over then
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23152 @ 0.00094554 = 21.8911 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 133 @ 0.0008329 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 160 @ 0.00084066 = 0.1345 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.57100012 = 17.13 BTC [-] {4}
MisterE: !ticker m btce
assbot: You cannot stop the clouds by the building of a ship.
MisterE: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 434.99, Best ask: 435.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.0, 24 hour volume: 28041.83140952, 24 hour low: 435.0, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 466.903021318
mike_c: ;;ticker --market btce
gribble: BTC-E BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 427.682, Best ask: 428.999, Bid-ask spread: 1.31700, Last trade: 429.0, 24 hour volume: 18362.17626, 24 hour low: 426.01999, 24 hour high: 498.70001, 24 hour vwap: 462.36
MisterE: ;;volume --market btce
gribble: Error: "volume" is not a valid command.
MisterE: ;;depth --market btce
gribble: Error: "depth" is not a valid command.
MisterE: grrrribble!
MisterE: ;;baratio --market btce
gribble: BTCChina | Total bids: 1750087 USD. Total asks: 8049 BTC. Ratio: 217.42721 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 23.5225 seconds
benkay: wow baratio that's a new one
benkay: ;;baratio --market bitstamp
gribble: Bitstamp | Total bids: 9380174 USD. Total asks: 24265 BTC. Ratio: 386.56786 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 192.8659 seconds
benkay: ;;baratio --market kraken
gribble: Kraken | Total bids: 10750 USD. Total asks: 62 BTC. Ratio: 170.90992 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0002 seconds
benkay: ;;calc 9380164/450
gribble: 20844.8088889
benkay: ;;calc 20844.8088889/24265
gribble: 0.859048377865
benkay: ;;calc 9380164/386.56786
gribble: 24265.2454345
benkay: whoop
benkay: ;;calc 9380164/24265
gribble: 386.571770039
Mats_cd03: wow kraken is still operating
benkay: jurov kakobrekla is usd/btc sensible in the context of a bid/ask ratio?
benkay: is this how the pros do it?
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 437.74, Best ask: 437.9, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 437.9, 24 hour volume: 28545.80434639, 24 hour low: 430.51, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 465.254654461
benkay: ;;ticker --market kraken
gribble: Kraken BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 450.0, Best ask: 457.28141, Bid-ask spread: 7.28141, Last trade: 457.28141, 24 hour volume: 18.86593899, 24 hour low: 452.73035, 24 hour high: 502.0, 24 hour vwap: 487.36119
jurov: honestly i dont know
benkay: has the gox practice of allowing unfunded bids and asks spread to bitstamp et al.?
Apocalyptic: benkay, btw what's your basis for the "stamp may be running a fractional" ?
benkay: rumors. fud.
benkay: one of those things that's hard to prove ahead of time.
benkay: see also: Gox.
Apocalyptic: not asking you to prove anything, just wondering
benkay: although they had known epic haxx ahead of time.
benkay: oh i can't prove anything, no worries :)
Apocalyptic: well afaik mircea hasn't called out stamp on trilema just yet
Apocalyptic: so it's different from the gox situation
thestringpuller: gox was called out almost a year ago
thestringpuller: is not more
jborkl: pankkake , you round
jborkl: you are in France correct?
jborkl: Can you see what the price of this piece of equipment is, the interwebs will not find it in english
jborkl: Gyspot Inverter BP.LC it is French made
pankkake: apparently they don't want the price to be public
pankkake: http://www.kessaoutil.com/marque-gys-croissant-1.html sells the brand, and the product doesn't seem to be there
ozbot: 5S2001110 - POSTE DE SOUDURE PAR POINTS INVERTER GYSPOT BP.LC-S7 REFROIDI LIQUIDE GYS
jborkl: Thank you for looking, I need to buy a few and the price controls are tight.
jborkl: well a few oem approved from somewhere besides here
pankkake: "outillage" seems to be a good keyword for finding
benkay: state-backed price controls?
jborkl: no, vendor price control
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06847499 = 0.2739 BTC [-]
jurov: https://www.progressbar.sk/en/blog/posts/keynescoin first cryptocoin with exhaustive secification
ozbot: KeynesCoin - ProgressBar HackerSpace
cads: hey guys, where should I learn marketing?
rithm: 4chan
cads: I've got a small virtual firm, with just one client that gives us a $1K job every couple of weeks
Mats_cd03: and what does your firm do
pankkake: jurov: ahahah. not even a reference to bernankoin though :(
cads: I wanna make a site and push some calls out to some other companies, I just... currently have no idea how to do that efficiently, and every reason to learn how
jurov: bernankoin is too unregulated
cads: Mats_cd03: we're a 2 person product prototyping team with a 3d printer and cad capability
pankkake: yeah
Mats_cd03: compile a list of companies operating in a space that could use your service
Mats_cd03: and start cold calling/pitching
nubbins`: also, yellow pages (srsly)
nubbins`: start going to trade shows etc too
Mats_cd03: build a site with a nice template and short, legible URL and then start printing flyers
Mats_cd03: old school is best school
cads: so call random companies that I know develop products, get someone medium level on the phone and then explain something like, "hey I'm cads with shopcoin prototypes, and the reason I'm calling you today is to learn a little bit about how your company currently uses prototypes in its product design phase"
Mats_cd03: sure
Mats_cd03: that sounds more like research doe
Mats_cd03: when i do things like that i offer to buy lunch and see them in person
Mats_cd03: incidentally, you get some good networking done if you have a decent sized lunch budget
cads: Haha, I'll keep that in mind!
drkow: satoshi will speak to you for a free lunch
punkman: cads, companies that develop products likely don't need you. better to target designers, wannabe inventors, marketers, etc
Mats_cd03: yeah, pretty much that
Mats_cd03: the small bidness angle works better in that space
Mats_cd03: since theres no moat in 3d printing
cads: We are local and so we can deliver faster than the major prototyping houses
cads: we don't want to deal with small people because that kills our margins and forces us to deal with really bad 3d modelling.
cads: I think that's definitely an area to grow in, though.
Mats_cd03: thought about offering a design service?
MisterE: poorest customers are always the most hassle
cads: Mats_cd03: the design service we offer is great - I have 10 years cad experience and so does my partner. And it's a good price - 35 an hour for these low level cusomers (60 for corporate) - and where our corporate client is happy with our prices, the low level clients hate to even think of paying 35 an hour....
cads: they're like "well lemme go back to sketchup and see if I can make a part that you'll say is makeable, thanks"
cads: or they'll contact you wanting a huge order of 300 of some small, crude looking widget
Mats_cd03: on average, what are your billable hours per design
cads: their great invention
Mats_cd03: i think theres a sweet spot for pricing that can still be profitable for a two man operation
cads: Mats_cd03: I wouldn't bill more than two hours for converting a 2d drawing into a part, say with one round of revision for the client.
cads: to be honest I need to learn more about how to structure and price design work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00094649 = 31.4235 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: flat rates
ThickAsThieves: with boundaries
ThickAsThieves: tell them exactly what they get for a flat rate, and what costs might be beyond that
ThickAsThieves: and what might induce extra costs
ThickAsThieves: if youve been doing it 10 yrs this shouldnt be hard to map out
cads: with the clients I feel like just talking to them about their designs and what it would take to make them makeable means they get expert input without paying a dime, and then they realize they can't afford the job and we're out half an hour worth of email correspondence time.
cads: I don't want clients that don't know how to do well for themselves, lol
ThickAsThieves: it's okay to have standards and minimum things worth your time
ThickAsThieves: it does get tricky to bill for a pitch process
ThickAsThieves: but it's not absurd
cads: yeah, I definitely wanna regroup my efforts and get with some known best approaches
cads: getting discouraged by my interactions so far would seem to imply I've done everything under the sun and it didn't work, but that's not at all true
cads: ThickAsThieves: I like the flat rate approach!
ThickAsThieves: hourly from the get-go just doesnt work
cads: one thing I notice is that charging people per hour seems to throw them for a loop
cads: not corporate people
cads: but regular people
nubbins`: okay, so.
ThickAsThieves: not all people
nubbins`: we had some snow here the other day.
ThickAsThieves: however it's just as much a burden on you as tge customer
ThickAsThieves: tracking all your hours, feeling guilty and adjusting hours
cads: right, extra record keeping or guessing and adjusting
ThickAsThieves: trying to "play" it to what you think the client will accept
cads: right
ThickAsThieves: it's a silly game
cads: this is just so much simpler
ThickAsThieves: also, dont compromise your minimum package
nubbins`: aaah i'm fuckin crying watching this video
ThickAsThieves: truly know what your minimum sized project is
cads: maybe have a "maker" tier design service and a "industrial" tier
ThickAsThieves: and dont do less
ThickAsThieves: also have a process for giving fair warning about extra costs
ThickAsThieves: dont spend the budget and leave a client stranded
cads: for the freemium tier the client gets their design automatically validated by my software - I do that for all prints anyways
ozbot: Supreme Court ruling on campaign contributions: More clout for the rich - latimes.com
mike_c: i have contracted out many many tasks on hourly and flat-fee basis. both sides have always been happier with flat fee.
ThickAsThieves: earlier asked about learning marketing, which is obv a loaded question
mike_c: but those are largely recurring tasks, and the fee can be adjusted if one side is unbalanced
ThickAsThieves: also dont feel guilty when your flat feed is 500% more cost than work was actually needed to complete
ThickAsThieves: youll need that padding for the ones that are the reverse
cads: I don't want those minimal customers to sense that, lol
thestringpuller: sorry to interrupt
thestringpuller: ThickAsThieves hit nail on head
ThickAsThieves: dont worry about what they "sense" the rates are on the label
ThickAsThieves: dont take no shit, and dont be no shit
cads: by complying to the flat fee they actually have to come to a stance that it's at least fair-ish
ThickAsThieves: not "-ish"
ThickAsThieves: it's the price to play
ThickAsThieves: without it, you dont exist and cant provide the service they value
Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, maybe he meant it in the karpeles way
thestringpuller: As T-Pain would say, "Whatever I send out homie I'm a make back. Put that on my Maybach"
cads: ThickAsThieves: the customer may grudgingly accept the price knowing full well they will utilize only 10% of the service bundle they're purchasing. And this is okay because it get them the play they need.
cads: sounds good
Mats_cd03: i think charging $100 for every design would serve you well
Mats_cd03: its a nice round number that establishes value and leaves you with negotiating power
punkman: missing a 0 there
cads: so right now my clients feel too cheap to pay $60 design fee, _and_ they find out how much I ostensibly work.
thestringpuller: or a few zeros
thestringpuller: find better clients?
cads: telling them 100 stops the games of when the customer is assuming it'll only take 20 minutes of design work.
cads: and keeps the truly cheap customers from even coming in the door
ThickAsThieves: cads, even if the minimum is perceived to be more work than needed, it does a very important thing
ThickAsThieves: allows you opportunity to OVER-deliver
cads: this is what we were able to do for our large client
ThickAsThieves: it also motivates you to do good work
ThickAsThieves: and impress
cads: we gave him a part that was so strong you could club a seal with it
cads: where the part that the company's overseas printer made would creak if you squeezed it
cads: I was particularly proud of our machine for that
cads: ThickAsThieves: that's a very very important point to me
ThickAsThieves: yep, set yourself up for success and progress, everyone wins
ThickAsThieves: if it doesnt work out, do something else
ThickAsThieves: at least you dont need to spend 20 years being miserable
cads: lol, even if I produce failure after failure there are still gonna be the moments where everyone is brilliant!
punkman: cads, what kind of printer do you have?
cads: it is a delta gantry printer with a cylindrical build volume approximately 200mm in diameter and 300mm tall - a Rostock Max, manufactured by the awesome See-Me-CNC
punkman: cads, cool stuff, haven't had a chance to play with a delta bot. I've built a couple Prusas myself, calibration was kinda impossible though and I had better things to do, so I just got rid of them.
benkay: over deliver on quality, though. not features or time spent on the thing.
[KS]: cads: my 0.02c - customers bring customers. start with the cheapskates and guess what your future customers will be ... it's very important you chose your "inital" group of customers carefully and that you don't hesistate to fire the ones you don't want. return customers are more valuable than one-offs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.06600011 = 0.594 BTC [-] {2}
[KS]: if you have enough experience, you can even evaluate the "avg lifetime worth" of a customer, that helps price your service as well.
diametric: cads: Oh you have a Rostock Max?
cads: yep, it's given us the deepest of headaches and the purest of joys :P
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 472 @ 0.0008881 = 0.4192 BTC [+] {5}
diametric: cads: nice. I'm very familiar with it =)
cads: get it tuned up and you have a formidable machine
cads: ah, nice!
diametric: I've been to SeeMeCNC's machine shop, John's a friend of mine
cads: You have a Romax?
cads: John's great.
diametric: He is, he's a pretty awesome guy
cads: Saved our butt during a job.
cads: hey have you given any thought to the thermal engineering that'd go into a heated build volume for a delta beast?
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 441.04, Best ask: 442.55, Bid-ask spread: 1.51000, Last trade: 442.55, 24 hour volume: 31652.77079318, 24 hour low: 430.51, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 461.473930677
kakobrekla: hi, who ranged
cads: we don't want to build our next printer but we will, if we can't find a well engineered delta printer with heated build volume
cads: also the outer envelope of the machine _needs_ to be completely inert and safe
diametric: You could try keeping the part warm with IR heat lamps pointed at the build area
diametric: but its not idea
kakobrekla: Apocalyptic what about blockr
diametric: ideal*
punkman: if you build an enclosure, the heated platform and extruder can probably heat up the whole thing. You just want to avoid overheating the steppers after that.
diametric: yeah, it definitely will
cads: the steppers can easily live outside of the volume in the romax design, luckily
diametric: I've used giant cardboard boxes as enclosures on parts I had warping issues with
cads: to wit, they already do
diametric: yeah
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, wanted to contact them regarding the lack of market listing for ATC
kakobrekla: what the vol
cads: I'm thinking of lasering an acrylic envelope for the whole printer
kakobrekla: whats the vol*
diametric: cads: You could probably use some extrusions and build yourself an acrylic octagon enclosure.
diametric: Just put hinges on a part of it and you can literally wrap it around
cads: I estimate $200-$300 to have the stuff made
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, what timeframe ?
punkman: cads, there's still the extruder's stepper, unless you go bowden cable
diametric: punkman: Almost all deltas are bowden
kakobrekla: dunno, spit out the numbers, daily, weekly, monthly
diametric: Theres a few that aren't, but most of them are since its a lot of weight to move around
cads: we can put the extruder out of the space I think
diametric: I'm even using the magnetic ball joints
cads: err, the e-motor
cads: diametric: how are you those working for you?
punkman: I've been told bowden is a headache, but I wouldn't know
cads: I don't know anything other than bowden
cads: and yeah, we still can't do bridging right
cads: there are some weird issues
cads: and some practical ones - like the bowden tube twice popped out of its push-n-lock connector
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, current daily: 38,532 ATC, weekly: 544,043 ATC, monthly: 3,159,523 ATC
cads: I'd definitely feel iffy about putting an extruder motor directly on the end of the delta effector arm
cads: already I feel like there's too much sway in the arm and in the printer columns
kakobrekla: whats that in btc
Apocalyptic: would be nice to have the charts like other coins do
punkman: cads, romax page shows a direct-drive extruder, you got a different one?
kakobrekla: yes Apocalyptic but the signal must not be fucked or else its useless
punkman: oh never mind, I wasn't looking close enough
kakobrekla: meaning you need some vol to average out, is all im saying.
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, you can divide by a million roughly
Apocalyptic: afaik it's the most active ATC market
kakobrekla: whats the url again?
kakobrekla: sorry forgot
ozbot: X-BT - The new marketplace for trading Bitcoin with Litecoin, Namecoin and Altcoin
kakobrekla: k, ill let you know.
cads: punkman: link?
cads: oh
cads: lol
Apocalyptic: I sent an email in the meantime
kakobrekla: well you can send as many as you want, those are free.
cads: punkman: all in all I like bowden
cads: for example if you have a 5 filament drive with a mixing extruder, you need bowden drives
cads: even if your extruder has a motor on board for the mixing
cads: (the reason to go to all this trouble is, of course, variable color)
cads: (and to a less extent, variable material properties)
punkman: cads, I wonder why there aren't more people working on adding servo/feedback loops on an extruder
punkman: patents maybe?
diametric: punkman: direct drive and bowden are not mutually exclusive
diametric: unless I misunderstood what you said
cads: punkman: problably the entry cost for the design work required for the sensors is what's the main issue
punkman: cads, you in Europe btw?
diametric: punkman: complexity and cost.
diametric: for feedback, is the primary reason.
cads: the math/control/coding is not too hard
cads: at least imo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 59 @ 0.0075 = 0.4425 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: anyway thanks for relaying kako
diametric: cads: the servo motors that have the torque required as much more expensive
cads: ah
diametric: Theres a crazy guy, I think his name is Jetguy on various forums, built such a machine though.
diametric: He spared no expense
cads: I was thinking feedback loops with sensors reading the filament travel, extrusion rate, or extruder pressure
diametric: I was next to him at Makerfaire NYC, its a crazy machine but like $10K USD in cost for a very marginal improvement over a similar $2K machine.
cads: diametric: a company is launching a printer that has a feed sensor that detects that filalement is coming out of the extruder drive and travelling into the bowden tube
diametric: cads: Thats not too hard to do
diametric: Are they doing it for calibration or for safety during a jam?
cads: but the features that gives seem to be lame duck - it can cancel the print if you run out of filament, and that's it
diametric: Yeah that is lame. You can do a really simple encoder on the idler bearing of the extruder
diametric: and detect when it stops extruding due to a jam.
cads: maybe they implement jam detection
cads: I would hope they do
diametric: But it won't cover all jams (such as popping the bowden tube and filament just freely spooling in the air)
cads: right, that's happened to us but it was under our supervision at the time
cads: human feedback loops, we were :)
diametric: I saw that, did you make sure the PTC teeth didn't break? Every time I've had that happen, PTC teeth broke and the whole fitting was weaker as a result.
cads: a pair of*
diametric: Now I have spare PTC fittings, though I haven't had any jam issues.
diametric: cads: What hotend are you using?
cads: diametric: we talked to john about the push to connect - apparently the first batch was cheap chinese stuff
diametric: if you're having bowden bursting jams I'm guessing an E3D while printing PLA.
diametric: or that too.
cads: we got some from mcmaster
cads: and no problems
cads: I don't know what caused the initial explosion but we thought we fixed it and it popped out again
cads: it went a couple weeks without popping out, lol
cads: and didn't pop out due to a jam
cads: so whatevs, we have what appears to be the reason for incidents
diametric: oh okay
cads: and yes, pnc connectors (an amazing technology, really!) are definitely one of those things to have on hand
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00094649 BTC [+]
cads: punkman: we're here in Atlanta, Georgia
mircea_popescu: cedivad hey
cedivad: mircea_popescu hey
mircea_popescu: nice work on the .lk thing
mircea_popescu: (that is yours is it ?)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.043895 = 0.439 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins`:what if i told you... that your investment went straight into the pockets of cypriot marketing firms? << that's only part of it. even should the guy have been fucktarded enough to pay ratecard, which is not entirely impossible, given how well his brain worked otherwise,
mircea_popescu: i can't for the life of me imagine those firms didn't throw him kickbacks under the table
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0560255 = 0.2241 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: we're talking cyprus here, which is worse than greece, which is about 50x as bad as chicago in 1890.
cedivad: yes, it is, and thank you (again) :)
mircea_popescu: kickback culture is about as ingrained as kleenexing in the us, i just can't imagine any context in which it'd have been omitted.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.577 = 1.154 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: cedivad you actively working on it ? or kinda made-and-forget sorta deal for oyu ?
cedivad: i'm sporadically working on it
mircea_popescu: aite. well if you need help say, who knows.
mircea_popescu: ckk powar!
moiety: that one *really* needs shoes
moiety: evening all
mircea_popescu: the imf is now "warning of low inflation". for the love of all the gods, this is like living in a dali painting.
mircea_popescu: weren't these fuckwits all over everyone's case all through the 90s about how they're supposed to deflate ? argentina, brazil, asia, the works ?
mircea_popescu: moiety hey there.
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: why do you keep posting pics of poor people from your country with no clothes?
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkOqFEECUAAqEVZ.png << half of china is roughly the size of california.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid actually that's the ukraine, and i'm trying to get a trend going.
Mats_cd03: i anticipate a tripling of chinese expats in the next ten years
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 whyssat ?
Mats_cd03: .cn sux
mircea_popescu: even if you're rich /
moiety: CheckDavid: they generally look quite happy
Mats_cd03: and the nouveau rich are numerous enough to leave the country
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.57102 = 2.8551 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: yeah, even if youre rich, the weathy and smart chinese try to leave
Mats_cd03: or at least send their children to western schools
mircea_popescu: i always thought it's quaintly corrupt and thus quite comfortable.
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: which trend? Posting pics. Taking them? Or just hanging around naked on the street?
moiety: there's more people in london than the whole of scotland
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid women under 30 spending their life in the buff.
mircea_popescu: moiety yeah but what about sheep ? :D
CheckDavid: Buff?
mircea_popescu: dude you're really new are you ?
thestringpuller: ;;ud buff
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buff | When someone is looking fine u say they are buff (London ting)
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: buff
CheckDavid: I didn't know that term that's all
moiety: mircea_popescu: thats something we have in abundance! take *that* london!
mircea_popescu: César Salazar “Lo más difícil es dar el primer paso” - Alguien que nunca llegó al centésimo paso
mircea_popescu: whoa check that out, apparently you can say intelligent things in spanish!
mircea_popescu: who knew.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid so now you do :p
CheckDavid: Yeah now I do
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: if you watch modern family. There's zone got chick there always quoting popular wisdom is Spanish
CheckDavid: She was talking with this single woman who couldn't find a partner
CheckDavid: And said something like
ozbot: Thula Thula Private Game Reserve: Elephant wanders into family's house | Metro News
moiety: that guy beats my sheep D:
CheckDavid: Love is always waiting around the corner.
moiety: well CheckDavid can it stop waiting please, im no spring chicken
CheckDavid: (I come from a country with a lot of prostitutes)
moiety: thats nice for you
mircea_popescu: what country is that ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41018 @ 0.0009464 = 38.8194 BTC [-] {2}
diametric: yeah that narrows it down...
mircea_popescu: diametric :p
CheckDavid: Sorry moiety ?
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: I think she is from Columbia
Mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: the country has been pooped on by industrialization
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17608 @ 0.00094548 = 16.648 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: moiety lol shit's adorable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00094565 = 9.1728 BTC [+]
blg: CheckDavid: you are from columbia?
CheckDavid: No blg
CheckDavid: moiety: very cute elephant
blg: oh
ThickAsThieves: "Given Russia's ongoing violation of Ukraine¹s sovereignty and territorial integrity, until further notice, the U.S. Government has determined that all NASA contacts with Russian Government representatives are suspended, unless the activity has been specifically excepted. This suspension includes NASA travel to Russia and visits by Russian Government representatives to NASA facilities,
ThickAsThieves: bilateral meetings, email, and teleconferences or videoconferences. At the present time, only operational International Space Station activities have been excepted. In addition, multilateral meetings held outside of Russia that may include Russian participation are not precluded under the present guidance."
ThickAsThieves: we wont do business with you! except where we really need you!
mircea_popescu: so no more us flights to the space station ?
ThickAsThieves: SpaceX never felt so special
mircea_popescu: first they cut the sub-mars nasa budget, now they cut its space station budget under the guise of politics
mircea_popescu: nasa is sort-of like the next neobee
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://jezebel.com/the-united-states-of-bros-a-map-and-field-guide-1550563737 << check out the liberated girls that last got laid back when their hair was a lot shorter hating on teh chicago brohood.
bounce: so, care to step in and fund mpspace and mpmooncolony?
mircea_popescu: i'd rather give to Worldwide Nude Whoredom Foundation.
bounce: especially seeing that mpoe-pr needs a vacation
mircea_popescu: ahaha so you want mpoe-pr sent to teh planets ? noted.
bounce: it'd make for a goodly long trip literally far away from all teh tr0lls
steven-__: people are always blathering on about women in tech where is the outrage over MPOE-PR, surely this is more of a story than that github whore or the nigger who tweeted a picture of some boys making dongle jokes?
bounce: right, scratch that idea. instead of giant pepsi and/or coce ads in orbit we'd get giant nekkid lahdeez in orbit
mircea_popescu: you aaaaare noooot aloooone
mircea_popescu: drkow why so mean ?
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: I guess I have to go to ukraine
CheckDavid: The women are just my style
CheckDavid: Physically
mircea_popescu: news at eight : tall young white women in everyone's style, this reporter has learned.
bounce: checkdavid is "everyone" now?
mircea_popescu: i'm being journalistic, stop hating.
mircea_popescu: do you want me to go practice my pistol skills on leah's range ?
Mats_cd03: sounds hot
bounce: turns out "everyone" hates paparazzi. scientific fact.
CheckDavid: My friends criticize my likings in woman
CheckDavid: That's why I said it's style
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nice find
bounce: s/coce/coke/ and I didn't even notice. such a den of corruption.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid i nearly said "well fuck them", but then i checked myself.
mircea_popescu: so people who have been following asicminer a lot closer than me... how bad is it ?
mircea_popescu: missed dividends et all, whole thing coming unglued ?
gribble: Error: "mine" is not a valid command.
thestringpuller: ;;generate
gribble: Error: "generate" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "gen" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: genrate dude.
thestringpuller: thank you mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: bounce waits for a couple of /good/ devs and assorted other techies to team up and find themselves /competent/ management to lord it over them. that'll be the day. <<< how the fuck do you think mpex works.
BingoBoingo: !t h am1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.57100010 / 0.57405722 / 0.61789884 (85 shares, 48.79486377 BTC), 7D: 0.52200000 / 0.60507272 / 0.67470380 (725 shares, 438.67772256 BTC), 30D: 0.52200000 / 0.61177017 / 0.69510000 (3175 shares, 1942.37027936 BTC)
thestringpuller: time at work flies when mircea_popescu is online
thestringpuller: I thank you for making my work day during "busy work" from keeping me from going insane.
jurov: IPO for scratch cards. Not impressed.
ozbot: Prypto Group Limited to be listed on BitcoinBourse.eu from April 15th, 2014. | The Bitcoin News
mircea_popescu: have a coupla metro whores.
moiety: CheckDavid: they bring the girls, i infiltrate -assets with cute :D
bounce can't afford mpex so no idea how it works
mircea_popescu: (you can tell they're strippers by the back grill they sport there)
Mats_cd03: they need to spend more time in the gym
mircea_popescu: at their age ?
ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
mircea_popescu: i think that makes 5 ?
jurov: BCB, Trezor folks used this on facebook and wrote a comment "can't happen with Trezor"
moiety: there a fight going on outside somewhere :(
jurov: do tell about missing a point
CheckDavid: moiety: haha good job
moiety: there's*
moiety: sorry im like super distracted this pat few days
BCB: jurov: link?
bounce: bitcoinbourse is the "I SUE YOO" guy, no?
moiety: jurov: omg!! lololololol
moiety: jurovan* sorry i have no idea why i typed jurov
Mats_cd03: i drooled butt grease from bad pizza once
moiety: punkman -- im still doing it
Mats_cd03: true story... ruined some shorts
mircea_popescu: moiety got a crush ?
moiety: lol i havent even talked to him for a few days lol
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 i think that's called olestra.
jurov: bounce, that's dotcoin
moiety: mybrain totally isnt in gear, sorry again punkman
Mats_cd03: it was a place called ciceros pizza thats in san jose ca
jurov: bounce, not sure if that's the guy you hace in mind
bounce has been reading too many things lately
Mats_cd03: cicero is an asshole, apparently
mircea_popescu: so kraken pretty much sunk post theyr 600 btc debacle did it.
mircea_popescu: a well. live and fucking learn, when the girl tells you to stfu and fix things you stfu and fix things.
mircea_popescu: o wait... the girl is no longer on the forum. inexplicably, all the rubes muchly relieved. d'oh.
bounce: of course. saves a lot of singtfu and fixing things.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic as far as i know, stamp's problems in our heads all trace to kakobrekla not likeing them, which was a year ago and he never really explained past "i met them and they're fucktarded".
bounce: the -assets rating agency in action
kakobrekla: go ahead and like them.
jurov: kako explained he has inside info about bitstamp being in mysql backed once a day or so
jurov: and about nejc being an asshole
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i ain't arguing, you speak their language.
bounce would concur with the mysql verdict
jborkl: mircea_popescu> so kraken pretty much sunk post theyr 600 btc debacle did it. ??
jborkl: they out
kakobrekla: <jurov> kako explained he has inside info about bitstamp being in mysql backed once a day or so < on the same server. only.
mircea_popescu: jborkl apparently doing less volume on their exchange than i do buying stockings.
mircea_popescu: <bounce> the -assets rating agency in action << word.
Neil: More insane hashing power seems to have hit the network. With the price dropping precipitously there must be miners who are hurting.
Mats_cd03: good
mircea_popescu: Neil yeah. the ones not backed by governments.
jborkl: oh and now that -pr is banned, who is going to tell the 3 sock puppets they suck?
bounce: backups on the same server. oh dear. well, I suppose it /might/ guard against mysql inexplicably fscking up in some creative way or other
mircea_popescu: jborkl the theory i heard was more like "well now that mpoe-pr is not there to walk all over their faces, kinda lost interest in the whole show"
mircea_popescu: apparently more poeople were tuning into tardstalk to check out the lady with a chainsaw at the special olympics
mircea_popescu: than for the actual special olympics.
jborkl: good point
kakobrekla: and also, "he never really explained past " < - i did a lot of explaining around, just maybe not in your private window.
bounce: does give the test to the "been propping them up" hypothesis
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla was it in the log somewhere ?
kakobrekla: forums, logs, emails, written in stone, you name it
Neil: 6 blocks in 10 mins ffs
mircea_popescu: cool lol.
mircea_popescu: far as i'm concerned it's still "kako didn't like them"
kakobrekla: well they dont know what they are doing
mircea_popescu: my brain actually works like this. once you become stupid i might start caring about the details of whart they did.
kakobrekla: i dunno why i should like them.
bounce: the brave new bitcoin world so needs code auditors, as well as financial auditors.
mircea_popescu: but until then, whatever. too much stuff to remember anyway.
ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 503 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.8722% in 2d 20h 48m 20s
kakobrekla: eh mp, question everything.
mike_c: it's all explained right here. http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=5
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "why am i lazy ?"
kakobrekla: does this has something to do with your last line in pm?
bounce: heck, not even code autitors so much as systems design auditors
mircea_popescu: no, that's different lazy.
mircea_popescu: bounce let's not bounce ahead of ourselves by leaps and bounces.
mircea_popescu: start by getting everyone to FUCKING REPORT BY STANDARD!
bounce: vewwy punny
kakobrekla: anyway i slept for an hour, been up all day, need a break. later
mircea_popescu: there's a standard, every fuckwit dimwit and captain foreskinhead out there thinks they know better.
bounce: You are the unexpected inquisition and I claim my comfy chair, thanks.
moiety: yay hollandish outings! nice windmill mircea_popescu :P
thestringpuller: ;;google site:trilema.com airgap
gribble: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide>; Why I suspect Schneier is an US agent. pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-suspect-schneier-is-an-us-agent/>; Octombrie 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2013/10>
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: how much must we pay for a "production guide" ?
moiety: why do i live in scotland and not holland? seriously
bounce: because you don't like genever
punkman: this is for people who want to start an "exchange": http://i.imgur.com/5C8zhB5.jpg
moiety: bounce: i believe i would though
KRS-One: heh
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller a production guide ?
mircea_popescu: aww poor happy, has to wear freezer bag shoes now ;/
mircea_popescu: cads: hey guys, where should I learn marketing? << for srsly.
moiety: ok i promise to refrain
cads: mircea_popescu: I have all the marketing acumen of an aspergers kid.
cads: note how the idea that I compile a list of companies that might need my services and cold call them was like this huge epiphany for me :)
mircea_popescu: it shows. but srsly, it's a pretty large topic.
mircea_popescu: what are you doing even ? saas ?
cads: prototyping as a service
mircea_popescu: you don't coldcall something like that.
mircea_popescu: you ask your previous custom to refer new custom.
mircea_popescu: "Hey, we're looking to expand, can you think of anyone who could use our services ?"
ThickAsThieves: [ATC Mined] ATC Mined (to date): 13019648 Total ATC (to be mined): 268435456 % Mined of Total: 4.85
mircea_popescu: check that out, ThickAsThieves finally figured how to run a client for atc :D
ThickAsThieves: in #altcoin
ThickAsThieves: they ar emaking atc bot stuffs
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda curious what happens should cads coldcall some random doods and then proceed to "get someone medium level on the phone and then explain something like"
mircea_popescu: should be a webcast. i'm sorry i said anytihing even.
ThickAsThieves: referrals are best
ThickAsThieves: if you wanna reach out, find the most appropriate venues
ThickAsThieves: (not the phone)
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 what decent size budget when his entire line is like 20k a year ?
mircea_popescu: that's basically...steaks.
punkman: cads, you get my pm?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves incidentally, best fun i ever had in boston was the day i decided ima coldcall small publishers for my book.
mircea_popescu: turns out buncha eager shaved beavers work for low end publishing houses in 2000s boston. i ended up with many new friends.
cads: mircea_popescu: I'm thinking it'll be fun
cads: oh hey, yeah
ThickAsThieves: finding a book publisher isnt easy, so i can see phone calling being a method of you dont have connections
cads: I could always seduce the secretaries as I went along
mircea_popescu: cads only if you're the sort of type that enjoys failing in a humiliating manner
mircea_popescu: which you only actually comprehend months after the event.
ThickAsThieves: finding a book PRINTER aint much easier
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i didn't phonecall. i inperson called.
cads: mircea_popescu: welcome to my life!
ThickAsThieves: Google Apps is trying so hard to purge their grandfathered free users
mircea_popescu: and secretaries you don't seduce. they're always busy at work.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 14 @ 0.06539228 = 0.9155 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: in a couple weeks i'll surely have former clients calling me
mircea_popescu: 5th wheel intern-ish girlies without clear responsibilities, which'd be the ones answering to a call like that, those you can seduce.
cads: really I know if we just go to a trade show and knock some people unconscious with our sturdy ass prototypes, we'll come away with at least people we can talk to without 99.999% failure
mircea_popescu: the rough equivalent being the it corp dudes that go to check out the babes at it conferences.
ozbot: Booth Babes Don’t Work | TechCrunch
mircea_popescu: that guy rants about them.
mircea_popescu: course in typical nerd fashion he misrepresents what happened, but hey.
ThickAsThieves: they should try booth whores
ThickAsThieves: might work better
cads: blah I'm going to read that article by extrapolating it from its title
cads: nice article, doesn't surprise me
mircea_popescu: that's because you equally don't have a clue :)
cads: yeah my conference experience is limited to math conferences
ThickAsThieves: most conferences are scams
cads: where 90% of the crowd would probably kill to have booth babes
mircea_popescu: so why not get some booth babes ?
ThickAsThieves: who will talk to them to hire them?
mircea_popescu: how hard can it fucking be, freakin campuses.
mircea_popescu: o that. myeah.
mircea_popescu: "you" can have a girl hang around the whole day for the cost of two beers, except not YOU.
cads: lol, maybe a student organized math conference with cute undegrad booth babes is in order
mircea_popescu: cads do this as a power play. it's what i'd do if i were somehow inexplicably interested in math academia.
cads: the AMA and university bodies and others that organize math conferences tend to be way to conservative to take that as anything other than a joke
mircea_popescu: get the hottest 12 chicks to boothbabe topless, only invite to present those professors who you owe favours to.
mircea_popescu: kick out the dinosaurs, humiliatingly so.
mircea_popescu: before you know it, you now control peer review in your field.
mircea_popescu: basically, always and everywhere take THEM as the joke, see how long they last.
mircea_popescu: not that hard rly.
cads: I'd be known as that mathematician that hasn't done any actual math, but has a harem of booth babes and has pushed forward the field into the next millenium.
mircea_popescu: sound familiar ? :D
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea how would one use airgapping in production?
thestringpuller: would be a neat guide since I have yet to find a way to do it practically for something in production
cads: Other mathematicians that would publish with me would eventually measure themselves according to their Cads number.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller well that general question has been answered in the general as best it could on the post man.
mike_c: how can i airgap my web server?
mircea_popescu: to actually implement it you hire someone to do it you know ?
mircea_popescu: you're asking "so how do i build my house". well... hire an architect ?
cads: the cads number - the number of times you've come up with a math breakthrough while recieving fellatio from one of my booth babes
mircea_popescu: cads to quote diogenes, if only it were that easy.
thestringpuller: I'm more asking "how do I learn to build a house" don't say "stay in schoo"
mircea_popescu: well what would i say ;/
cads: airgapping bothers me, but the way I'd use it is as a fully offline reference system
mircea_popescu: but the man doth have a point. i find it shocking that us pretend-academia will offer "women's studies" shit about that twerking girl, but there's no actual airgapping programme anywhere.
cads: systems goes online once in its life to acquire the required reference materials, and then gets all its wireless adaptors removed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0444 = 0.222 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: cads that's airbandaided.
thestringpuller: how else would the college derp get laid without a women studies class?
bounce: "arrange things such that sensitive stuff is offline as much as possible"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:hourly from the get-go just doesnt work << it does work in some fields. lawyers are the typical usecase, but also many high-demand few specialist engineering fields. you pay the hourly rate to qualify yourself as an actual customer
mircea_popescu: rather than random schmoe bored online.
bounce: some jugging around with public key crypto goes a ways there
cads: mircea_popescu: I know there's a military handbook that describes design of airgapped systems (the red/black system design philosophy)
mircea_popescu: cads sure.
cads: such a traditional system might still use punch cards to transfer data from the black to the red system
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:trying to "play" it to what you think the client will accept << what the fuck self-sabotaging second guessing bullshit is this, seriously! bejaysus.
mircea_popescu: this should be translated to english
bounce: depends. if you do an automated transcription of ethernet frames to punch tape and back again, you don't really have an air gap. just like putting a wireless hop in the network to have an "air gap" doesn't really work.
bounce: ISTR the cacert people had a description up of how they did it: serial cable to the box with the signing key and a custom protocol that only understood signing requests and returned signed certificates, no other connection to anything whatsoever.
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June
mircea_popescu: there's no way this is right
bounce: that still depends on the front making intelligent decisions as to what to sign, but, you know...
ThickAsThieves: the self-sabotaging of that nature probly is an american cultural thingy
ThickAsThieves: customer always right, every service person is your bitch
ThickAsThieves: stuff like that
ThickAsThieves: yes hourly does indeed work out fine in higher-paying fields
ThickAsThieves: but i do question why it is more accepted, other than people are more loose with their money
ThickAsThieves: even lawyers want a retainer anyway
ThickAsThieves: not THAT different
mircea_popescu: because you have to establish yourself to the provider, not the other way around.
cads: bounce: hum, I'd like to read that document
bounce: been years since I'd seen it. probably somewhere up at cacert.org
mircea_popescu: fast food chains compete for customers. rich people compete for seats at the hot club.
ThickAsThieves: yes but ive never felt more cheesed for my hourly payout than with a lawyer
mircea_popescu: ever saw those queues in front of major clubs ?
cads: what I recall was that these punched cards were transfered over by humans, but I remember nothing of how they'd use that to prevent arbitrary content from entering the red system
ThickAsThieves: my last one still hasnt sent an invoice of any kind, after many requests
ThickAsThieves: but was quick to tell me the retainer was up
ThickAsThieves: and that i owed
cads: my source material is probably the wikipedia article on the military design document I mentioned earlier, instead of the actual document
ThickAsThieves: nigga wont show me
ThickAsThieves: cuz i know he's making it up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0646 = 0.1292 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if he's reading this
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.06388734 = 1.5972 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves sue him.
benkay: make him present his derriere before your new lawyer
ThickAsThieves: i just might, would be nice to get the damn bill first...
mike_c: <mircea_popescu> http://bitbet.us/bet/798/bitcoin-to-drop-under-400-before-june/ << i agree, but a lot of volatility right now. it could bounce below.
ThickAsThieves: google apps is fucking with me for real now
mircea_popescu: cads diametric you two should joint or several work out something i can ipo.
ThickAsThieves: i already followed their instructions to activate the accounts the wanna shut down
mircea_popescu: mike_c considering how it bounced right off 500...
ThickAsThieves: and now they say i havent done it yet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00094654 = 15.9965 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: another 25% seems quite outlandish in my head.
mike_c: yeah, i hope you are right (i am in on that bet).
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves prolly have to move it on punched paper acroiss airgap
ThickAsThieves: meh, for tomorrow, for now, off to the rap show!
cads: bruce schneir described the airgapping "effort" he was using to research the NSA papers and write the articles reviewing them.
mircea_popescu: cads you mean bnc connector ? or is there some diff ?
cads: which consisted of a brand new laptop that had never been connected to the internet, and a thumbdrive
cads: and... I'm hoping he really did something better than i'm thinking
bounce: that means something like linux or a *BSD is Right Out because... those come FROM the internet!!1!
moiety: 22:47 <mircea_popescu> and secretaries you don't seduce. they're always busy at work. << a good secretary can't be seduced. this is true. however, also means loyalty.
cads: actually
ozbot: Schneier on Security: Air Gaps
cads: I'm being more pessimistic than necessary - his advice is actually about as decent as you can get
cads: for example use read only cdrs to dump data into the machine
cads: I don't like that he suggests a usb key, because usb keys have been penetrated before
bounce: wipe it and format it on a linux machine
bounce: (or anything but a windows machine, really)
ozbot: Why I suspect Schneier is an US agent. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
cads: "Malware can silently write data to a USB stick, but it can't spin the CD-R up to 1000 rpm without your noticing. "
mircea_popescu: that thing is beyond ludicrous.
cads: haha, I suspect that too
bounce: well, the sentiment is sensible enough: minimise infection vectors, build in barriers and things that might tip you off
mircea_popescu: jurov "In this paper we will describe some of the shortcomings and suggest solution"
mircea_popescu: needs proofread.
bounce: the execution in the context of stupidly complex machinery a bit less so
jurov: mircea_popescu: ?
mircea_popescu: earlier link ou dropped from your hackathon thing ?
cads: mircea_popescu: but what prominent security expert is _not_ under reasonable suspicion of being a government agent?
jurov: ah that
ozbot: Bruce Schneier passwords fail - serialized delusions
cads: yeah, I suddenly want to read some more criticisms
cads: the suggestions he gives for airgaps would not protect against the kind of measures the NSA is claimed to be able to take
mircea_popescu: which is precisely why he makes the sort of cargo cult suggestions he does make.
cads: mircea_popescu: what are the odds you put on Snowden himself being a US agent?
bounce: wonder how hard it is to TEMPEST-proof a laptop. if a can of metallic paint to the inside of the shell is enough that should be a nice enough niche earner
mircea_popescu: bounce or make a nice al case :p
cads: I think that the capabilities being divulged are too over the top and being divulged in a way engineered to make the vast majority of people accept them.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between snowden and "what the guardian represents".
mircea_popescu: were you asking about the latter ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.0009449 = 37.7488 BTC [-] {2}
cads: snowden's revalations have continued to detail a number of really extensive cyber capabilities that the NSA has
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1292 @ 0.00094275 = 1.218 BTC [-]
cads: including stuff that the media has spun as "the ability to store all the transfers on the internet for a whole 4 day review period"
mircea_popescu: did you read the actual leaks
cads: no
mircea_popescu: or 2nd and 3rd hand commentary by us propaganda sources?
mircea_popescu: then what are you talking about.
cads: I mean, you're familiar that QUANTUM is allegedly a massive attack and risk mitigation suite with a huge encyclopedia of attacks and expert systems for deploying them. And that other aspects of the tailored access unit have allegedly done such things as pushing backdoors into cryptoprotocols.
mircea_popescu: the latter claim is uncontroversial.
mircea_popescu: kinda the reason why the rsa corp is going the way of cisco.
cads: the way it's being covered just seems suspicios - the technologies are made to sound super duper scary, almost unimaginable, and nobody I've read is writing any serious counterplans
cads: and now, even with the revelations, normal people are even _less_ likely to want to imagine their capabilities and how to fight them
turbo_ac100: ;;gpg eregister turbo_ac100 32CCD4DEC831411C
gribble: Request successful for user turbo_ac100, hostmask turbo_ac100!~turbo@port-92-206-246-199.dynamic.qsc.de. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/32CCD4DEC831411C
BingoBoingo: I wonder if reutereEmily is going to cover the NeoBee fiasco
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo she kinda did just disappear huh
mircea_popescu: i guess fell down the reading rabbit hole
cads: so one hypothesis is that there's a body of people that had this information made up to some extent, at the very least glorifying the capabilities and making them seem starkly unopposeable.
cads: Nowhere do we see documents on what the NSA percieved to be a serious threat!
cads: what scares the NSA?
cads: or the people behind it?
cads: it's not in the documents
bounce: that with tweets maxing at 160 chars and irc messages at a little more, wouldn't it make sense for ozbot to special-case twitter.com/.../status/... and include the actual tweet?
BingoBoingo: Possibly. She has yet to tweet this month, and seemed rather interested in the topic. This reading thing is a hell of a drug
cads: maybe the agency doesn't know itself well enough to imagine it has _any_ fears
cads: but more likely those documents simply didn't make it into the package snowden has revealed
Duffer1: cadswhat scares the NSA? >> any entity that could threaten its funding
cads: I think it's reasonable that they would have made study of factors that could legitimately destabilize them, and come up with ways to counter.
cads: and where are those studies?
cads: I would imagine those would be the first to be released if snowden had them, and was hardcore
turbo_ac100: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:b08a40e815e8a29bae955ebfa66c2c032868815a12a6ddf38b15e480
gribble: Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user turbo_ac100 with key 32CCD4DEC831411C
cads: after building the case that they're fucking everyone, he would have been like "but this. This is what they really don't want you to see"
Duffer1: strategies to counter congress likely weren't as available as the rest of snowden's material
cads: that's highly likely, and it would be nice if someone acknowledged the documents snowden didn't manage to get
mike_c: countering congress is easy. ask j edgar
Duffer1: though given clappers' behavior it's not like we even need snowden to know such material exists
moiety: BingoBoingo: can we play chess tomorrow or soon? preferrably after you have had a ton of vodka
mircea_popescu: bounce this is a good point actually.
mircea_popescu: cads snowden was a contractor. he didn't have access to the strategic bundle.
BingoBoingo: moiety: Possibly
moiety: can anyone explain to me how a self-confessed "indoor cat" like snowden ended up with a model gf? im suspicious of this
moiety: possibly is good enough for me :D
turbo_ac100: I have a different user ID on the keyserver and eregistered here. Matters?
cads: mircea_popescu: also I know you don't like schneier, but for a while he had his "NSA Exploit of the day" that was a near daily analysis of a new exploit from his researches of the leaked documents - here he apparently concludes that with basically saying, I've shown you all these exploits. Now we need to come up with ways to defend against them because not only the NSA will use them, but also criminals and other countries
asciilifeform: cads: are you familiar with the 'two NSAs' hypothesis?
bounce: "criminals and other countries"
cads: more recently he covered something called MYSTIC, which is a system that can "record 100% of a nation's phone calls"
asciilifeform: phone should be regarded as something like plaintext email.
cads: it's kinda like he's playing some kind of theatre, dazzling and shocking us with these capabilities, then here and there dropping a paragraph about how we should do something against them
mircea_popescu: moiety i never saw his gf. pix ?
cads: never suggesting anything against it
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 not particularly.
mircea_popescu: cads wait, you doubting 100% of all plaintext phonecalls are being recorded ?
cads: no, not at all
mircea_popescu: i dun follow your argument then
bounce: too bad cryptophones et al are still too spendy
turbo_ac100: kakobrekla: make my day :)!
cads: mircea_popescu: if he's an agent why talk about these capabilities? To brag. And more importantly to mislead and misinform.
moiety: now explain how he met her?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14008 @ 0.00094256 = 13.2034 BTC [-]
cads: when he covers a larger new outlet's story on the revelation of a new capability, he's always pointing out the technical ways in which the capabilities go further than the article explains
bounce: journos are not great at this tech thing
cads: so possibly he's doing us a favor by explaining the capabilities in more complete way
cads: even if he was an agent he could be reporting faithfully
cads: especially if someone else knows it's cooked up documents anyways
mircea_popescu: moiety she's not THAT hot is she ?
mircea_popescu: bounce maybe with s.nsa...
cads: everyone knows they're recording the phone calls, now everyone believes that they can only keep the phone calls for a month, that the program to do it is called MYSTIC, and that it hasn't been used against the US
cads: two of those three are probably false :D
mircea_popescu: moiety anyway, smart chicks dig famous underdogs.
mircea_popescu: cads he's just a random has-been talking about the topic of the moment, imo.
moiety: mircea_popescu: no but still, how did they meet? and she did know about what e was going to do, they left their home in may.
mircea_popescu: not much more not much less.
bounce: one of the reasons I bought a nokia e52 was because there was cryptophone source available that was supposed to work on that thing
bounce: then reality hit.
moiety has looked into es a lot
ozbot: Why coinmarketcap.com got destroyed
moiety: edward snowden
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to drop under $400 before June
mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj more like "because they fucked up a bitbet."
mircea_popescu: "then got banned by bitbet, then curtains."
mircea_popescu: moiety i imagine cupcake mantits met snowden the same way you met BingoBoingo
skinnkavaj: Stop trolling
mircea_popescu: not to imply anything about either your bra filling abilities or his bar hopping skills.
mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj i'm not trolling yo.
moiety: i dont even know how i ended up on that site. but im glad i met BingoBoingo
cads: anyways mircea_popescu I'm glad my argument for heavily doctored NSA papers is not strong. I saw similar arguments claiming the pentagon papers were exactly what the higher ups wanted released, nothing more, nothing less, and those arguments seem cranky
mircea_popescu: first line of damage control.
mircea_popescu: not so far off from claiming neobee floundered because mpex.
bounce: it's a valid concern, though. spy shops must be masters of misinformation.
cads: "obviously the corporate leaks were not done by the CEO" "But he's gotten great publicity!" "he's going to spend his life in jail" "yeah but he'll be a mover/shaker in the real world via his letters" "he hanged himself last night" "yeah but this was all of his plan so that now he can laugh at us and manipulate the stock market from Hell"
mircea_popescu: nsa is not a spy shop tho.
mircea_popescu: the us made the mistaken strategic decision to move from humint to sigint at the end of the cold war.
bounce: at the same time I find it hard to see what this leak could possibly achieve being misinformation. what would they steer us away from and how massive would that have to be?
mircea_popescu: the us humint was never any good, even at the height of the cold war they were more of a laughingstoc operationally,
mircea_popescu: rthe only difference betweenthem and the french being that the french had no money, either.
bounce: they're not a human spy shop, no. they do deal in information and so also in misinformation.
mircea_popescu: so basically think fat kid that's allowed in the sikrit fraternity because he lets everyone borrow the stuff his rich parents buy him
mircea_popescu: anyway : meanwhile things have deteriorated, and the us "spyshop" doesn't even count. it's in there in the 3rld world, between congo and indonesia or something
bounce: that more or less defines the us int'l relations, spyish or otherwise
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: generally diplomacy by and large goes the way of spyshop-y.
cads: is it really hard to believe that they'd reveal some version of their capabilities knowing that fear and uncertainty would actually legitimize those practices?
bounce: I forget whose documentary it was where some cia operative went "well we just have to step into all these messes you lot (==all the world) keep on being in" -- meaning it seriously and conveniently turning a blind eye to the glaring fact it's the us, more specifically the cia, that's been busy causing the messes in the first place
mircea_popescu: cads this sort of thinking is fed by watching movies and faping on reddit.
mircea_popescu: on the actual ground, the us has serious problems hiring people who don't spend most of their time wondering if "deep down" theyt're really women or not.
mircea_popescu: shit bullet as asciilifeform;d say.
cads: mircea_popescu: touche
mircea_popescu: also, sargent is not allowed to beat recruits
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how you imagine someone with the capability of running an actual spyshop could be lured to work for the us
mircea_popescu: when there's so many so very much better offers o nthe table.
bounce: the us fan club named nato and the inner "five eyes" circle keeps on fapping on all that wonderful computer-y stuff nsa and gchq must shirley have
mircea_popescu: you know, brain surgeon ain't likely to work for the cockroach infested hospital. because he prefers working with people he respects,
mircea_popescu: and who respect themselves enough not to live in the cockroach trap.
moiety: lol shit bullet is a new one on me
bounce: so who's got good or at least respectable humint going on these days?
mircea_popescu: china russia israel korea brazil more or less in order
bounce: not a european country among them. huh.
mike_c: um, which korea?
mircea_popescu: bounce watch the influence spheres move as a result.
mircea_popescu: mike_c the 2nd best one :p
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.062009 = 0.124 BTC [-]
cads: south?
cazalla: north korea is best korea
cads: their emperor is a God!
mike_c: north korea isn't good at anything except extorting money from the us.
bounce: not sure if it's a cause or an effect, but the shifting is happening, yes
mircea_popescu: and inventing hairdos
cads: and their economy is so productive.
mike_c: and applying makeup to their soldiers
mircea_popescu: mike_c you seen that pic ?
bounce: didn't they run their own usd presses?
mike_c: yeah :)
cads: lol
ozbot: Hair, the musical pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mike_c: their faces would glow in the dark
asciilifeform: the interesting thing is that nsa-as-we-know-it, but with a pill against modern crypto hidden in an 'indiana jones'-style vault, would scarcely be distinguishable from what we can now see
asciilifeform: see winston churchill and the demolition of coventry.
asciilifeform: it's a pill that would be kept in reserve for some unspecified 'dire times' that never come - as nukes are
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the average cunt with a hidden angler fish right under the flesh would be also indistinguishable from the average cunt.
asciilifeform: because you can only really use it once.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00094718 = 2.4627 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there's a romaina guy that did extensive "research" on this topic, his name was lucian blaga
mircea_popescu: one of his lines is meanwhile common cultural cliche in romanian, "sa nu strivim corola the minuni a lumii"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00094653 = 20.1611 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: something like "let us not dispell the world's corolla of wonder"
asciilifeform: which topic? cunt cum angler-fish?
mircea_popescu: it's mostly used derrisively to bother anticultural and antiintellectual lines
mircea_popescu: (who aren't likely to get the reference or have read the guy's work)
mircea_popescu: no, he was a philosopher, theory of knowledge.
cads: asciilifeform: is that the "two NSAs hypothesis"?
mircea_popescu: 1956 nobel prize nominee etc
mircea_popescu: (communists protested the nomination)
asciilifeform: cads: the two-nsa hypothesis is that the americans have a stable of folks with brains squirreled away somewhere
asciilifeform: it's mostly a product of my diseased imagination, but has some grounding in soviet history
cads: ... err, "squirreled away"?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, is there anything in russian by the guy ?
asciilifeform: nsa writes crapware for winblows, 'meta-nsa' then would do something interesting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rezun (pseudonym suvorov) and his histories of gru, which he ran away from
cads: this would be the "strategic level" that mircea_popescu alluded to
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean by lucian blaga
asciilifeform: not that i know of
mircea_popescu: i can't conveniently search for the shit, no good kbd
cads: ie, we just saw leaks from the software development department
cads: we didn't see leaks from the operations and strategy department
asciilifeform: cads: likewise no leaks from the math farms.
cads: right!
mircea_popescu: there's a german Peter Sragher version which is pretty decent. but otherwise the guy seems an incredibly well kept secret. funny how that works.
asciilifeform: these people claim (not entirely implausible) to be the largest employer of math phd types in the usa
asciilifeform: what, if anything, they have to show for it, is another matter
mircea_popescu: well, academia is hte largest, but ohter than that as a single entity, i believe it.
cads: all those mathematicians and they're still a laughingstock to mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: personally i've no evidence in favour or against the 'they've got the pill and are sitting on it' hypothesis
cads: I seriously doubt either of the koreas have higher technical capalities
ozbot: Die luziferische Erkenntnis: Amazon.co.uk: Lucian Blaga, Rainer Schubert: Books
mircea_popescu: cads understand that a spyshop is not math kids.
mircea_popescu: if you were a party organiser and all you had to show me were math wallflowers i'd equally point and laugh at you.
turbo_ac100: ;;later tell kakobrekla im turbo_ac100 on otc now.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: technical capabilities are not the question.
cads: free as the north one is to grant the humint operators the latitude needed to implement every single tactic from their wet dreams
mircea_popescu: zee germanz had much better "technical capabilities" than their intellectual, strategic and ultimately human capabilities.
mircea_popescu: what do you think sunk hitler, technological inferiority ? puhleaze.
mircea_popescu: cads that's nonsense, the north korea is much less free than the average. in fact, about as unfree as the us.
mircea_popescu: if you actually bother looking at the facts, the two regimes are scarcely different.
cads: haha, all I know about what sunk the germans I learned from a fictional account of breaking the Enigma machine
cads: ie, fiction - apparently we were dycyphering everything
cads: but using it in a way such that they could not deduce that we were decyphering everything
bounce: the germans had some good cryptologists too. funny how you never hear about them.
cads: maybe that happened during part of it
cads: yeah
cads: I can't imagine we didn't enjoy the exact same treatment
mircea_popescu: bounce you know how wikipedia-history based on press-narratives works.
cads: haha, the book I refer to was neal stephenson's cryptonomicon
cads: soooo
cads: I'm not even /claiming/ any kind of historical knowledge :)
asciilifeform: anyone who had the misfortune of attending u.s. schools is in for a little mindfuck - the evidence that sk (at the behest of its puppeteer across the ocean) started the korean war is, imho, convincing.
mircea_popescu: well i wasn't talking of you strictly :[
cads: usually I'm less clueless than that but I'll at least not argue based on it :)
bounce: esp. going on the end they also put a lot of faith in "wonder weapons", "victory weapons", and such. bit of a parallel with the US, that
mircea_popescu: bounce dreaming is the last refuge of the defeated. you know who else did it ?
mircea_popescu: the paleologoi. christ himself, you see, was going to come lift the siege.
asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of translating the russian expression for these - 'wonderwaffles'
asciilifeform: ('wunderwaffe' original)
mircea_popescu: waffe doesn't mean waffle lmao
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: Der Wafflen SS!
asciilifeform: it's a derisive poke
mircea_popescu: god help you if you bring any outside syrups
bounce: you know, it's not even so much wikipedia as some good old fashioned propaganda that put bletchley park on such a socket
asciilifeform: 'вундервафля'
bounce: could be something to do with the shameful treatment of turing, too, though. (including the recent "rehabilitation" thing)
mircea_popescu: bounce i'd say it's uncontroversial that they did a lot of very good work. the problem with the propapress -> wikipedia -> reddit machine oif nonthink is that it flattens alternatives
cads: bounce: yeah, now I wonder about the enemy's opposing cryptoparks
mircea_popescu: very totalitarian system. soon enouhg ALL THERE IS is X topic.
bounce: they did do a lot of good work, but they certainly weren't the only ones
cads: bounce: and whether they had attacks against our techs
mircea_popescu: exactly.
cads: I'm sure they did but I've heard nary a one
bounce: paleologoi doesn't light a bulb nor produces comprehensible search results. colour me uninformed.
cads: dat moment when you realize you suddenly need to know a lot more about what was going in and around some historical event.
cads: bounce: I think that was his point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00094753 = 21.1299 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: handbook that describes design of airgapped systems (the red/black system design philosophy) << read the crap. red/black has nothing to do with airgaps, for the most part.
asciilifeform: it is mainly about separating wiring for 'red' (plaintext that must not leave) and 'black' ciphertext that can go outside the walls
asciilifeform: incl. power supplies
asciilifeform: everyone's seen the photos of the general sitting next to two keyboards, two monitors, etc.
asciilifeform: but this is not mandatory - there are plenty of gadgets with 'red' and 'black' connectors on one panel
asciilifeform: (trivial example: anything that enciphers/deciphers)
asciilifeform: now, these gadgets are blessed by a priest, sprinkled with holy water before deployment, etc.
asciilifeform: whether this has anything to do with practical security is a puzzle for students of u.s. bureaucracy.
asciilifeform: usb keys have been penetrated before << this refers to various experiments where you re-flash the microcontroller inside a usb drive, to do various useful things.
asciilifeform: i've tried this personally - it works. (you need a drive for which either docs or some reverse-engineerable flash diddler from the factory are available.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.05600001 = 0.28 BTC [-]
bounce: not just that. there's been cases where the gold key image had some virus or other, causing $largenum of usb keys to ship that way from factory
mike_c: no reason cardano wouldn't be susceptible to that is there?
asciilifeform: and then there's the winblows-specific crap, which i regard as uninteresting:
ozbot: Plug and Prey: Malicious USB Devices
asciilifeform: mike_c: cardano emulates a usb drive, when connected to pc.
mircea_popescu: it's not actually reflashable is it ?
asciilifeform: not from usb.
asciilifeform: but it is worth pointing out that many, if not most, usb gadgets - are.
asciilifeform: incidentally, this is one of the reasons it took me so long to find an appropriate micro for cardano
bounce: do cheap usb keys do any wear leveling, like ssds do?
asciilifeform: most of the available ones are designed to be reflashed via usb
asciilifeform: bounce: they do.
bounce: the keys I have here are all well before the large leaps around the time of the barefoot controller. perhaps should replace a few. then again, I'd get inferior flash.
asciilifeform: generally, the newer the 'flash', the more threadbare the actual eeprom cells
asciilifeform: in the sense that a recent 'ssd' would barely last a few thousand write cycles without leveling.
bounce: right. so ideally would want a new controller with old chips
asciilifeform: this subject has been beaten to death in engineering literature
bounce: dunno. 40 nm slc or something.
bounce: (notice how the industry counts: single. multi. triple.)
asciilifeform: re: usb: it is important to remember that using winblows is a strictly voluntary surrender.
bounce: the volunteers tend to not see it that way
asciilifeform: anyone who does, and uses an external drive that faithfully stores bits (no micro diddling) is vulnerable to a world of fun
asciilifeform: e.g. icon parser overflows, etc.
asciilifeform: cardano uses a micro-sd card for storage, and assumes that said card was built by the devil
asciilifeform: so the card only sees crypted blocks.
asciilifeform: and never a key
asciilifeform: (lives on its own bus, too. because basic literacy.)
bounce: huh, since today ze wifi developed a habit of cutting all live connections every hour or so. possibly the isp did an "upgrade", they pulled that before, with similar effects. oh the joys of CPEs, even brand name issue ("cisco" here)
asciilifeform: bounce: you're using a router supplied by other people ?!
bounce: I'm not (directly) paying for the connection either
asciilifeform: there are dumb isps where i live, that want you to use their router. most of them are easily dealt with (MAC spoof)
bounce: were it up to me I'd separate out the docsis3 part into a standalone thingy and do the rest elsewhere.
asciilifeform: buy a generic docsis modem, reflash the addr, problem solved.
bounce: can't do that in this situation though. I suppose I could at least separate out ze wifi with an extra box.
bounce: the important stuff is all on wire that that doesn't seem to suffer
bounce: lot of docsis2 kit floating around fer cheapers, docsis3 not so much
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17950 @ 0.00094785 = 17.0139 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094797 = 9.0057 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: for you 3d printing nerds:
ozbot: Taste Testing 3D-Printed Food - YouTube
moiety: i heard 3d printing
mike_c: 3d print your candy
moiety: mike_c: thats epic, thanks for shairing... i would make a million of the rainbow cube thingys
mike_c: interlocking candy is pretty cool
moiety: only <$5k!
moiety: o.o
moiety: though, thats epic personalised presents for the rest of your days
moiety: i wonder if it could do interlocking tablet
MisterE: orning
MisterE: morning
MisterE: ;;ticker --market huobi
gribble: Error: This is not one of the supported markets. Please choose one of ['bcent', 'btcn', 'coinbase', 'cbx', 'bitmynt', 'btsp', 'btcavg', 'krk', 'btcde', 'btce', 'bfx'] or 'all'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0449 = 0.1796 BTC [+]
MisterE: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 427.5, vol: 36070.62603398 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 419.159, vol: 32637.1552 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 426.41, vol: 29119.54721647 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 434.45, vol: 188.43956285 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 398.397078, vol: 9760.74860000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 440.01, vol: 4.2822138 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 468.112001377, vol: 194.25015683 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
moiety: morning MisterE :)
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 428.41, Best ask: 429.32, Bid-ask spread: 0.91000, Last trade: 429.33, 24 hour volume: 36275.95162166, 24 hour low: 425.53, 24 hour high: 494.98, 24 hour vwap: 455.536355556
mircea_popescu: urgently need moar drama to prop up exchange rate
mircea_popescu: and lulz
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.056 = 0.28 BTC [-] {2}
MisterE: lel
BingoBoingo: NeoBee branches full of AIDs needles?
mircea_popescu: moar like bitpay steps in to rescue coinbase which steps in to rescue kraken which steps in to rescue neobee which steps in to rescue i forget what
cazalla: imagine explaining this one when you're older http://i.imgur.com/ZcCxcwC.png
mircea_popescu: cazalla im not so sure there exist any tattoo on any twentysomething that could be explained by a 50 something
cazalla: neobeo stepped in to rescue weex remember
mircea_popescu: because teh ceo had personal funds there.
mircea_popescu: very good way to run corps.
Duffer1: wait waaht
Duffer1: first lawl tattoo
Duffer1: second someone had money in weex?
Duffer1: nm why am i surprised
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0564 = 0.1692 BTC [+]
moiety: omg my eyes burn at thattattoo mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5314 @ 0.00094474 = 5.0203 BTC [-]
moiety: asciilifeform: i have a manul i cant read! its in russian i think
asciilifeform: moiety: ?
moiety: asciilifeform: this one http://i.imgur.com/5tUUa.jpg
asciilifeform: moiety: 'Pet the cat.' under: 'Pet the cat, bitch'
dignork: moiety, I had this as wallpaper on my desktop pc :)
moiety: lolol thank you very much asciilifeform!
moiety: dignork: heres mine http://i.imgur.com/8RGgUEd.png :D
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 91 @ 0.00565011 = 0.5142 BTC [-] {6}
dignork: moiety, neat, but no text. p.s. windows?
moiety: dignork: i rotate my manuls, some are unlabelled. and i would prefer a non-microshaft machine, but priorities just now
moiety: asciilifeform: thats incredible. its really interesting how they are all a bit different. I'm espcieally surprised at the ocelot hybrid. (and the fact theres such a thing as a cryptozoologist)
moiety: "bobelots" lol
moiety: lololol ^ [still embarrased i thought he was really that size D:]
BingoBoingo: moiety: That one might be, "glandular disorder"
moiety: lolol BingoBoingo "he's just big boned!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.57 BTC [-]
moiety: asciilifeform: i didn't know they had a name for this either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_cat [Alien Big Cats]
moiety: BingoBoingo: is he just famous for looking grumpy too?
BingoBoingo: moiety: That's a different one
moiety: i know grumpy cat but this one looks rather sour too... what did he do?
moiety: ah.. "proud, plotting and evil, as though he might actually murder a small human just for sport."
moiety: I didn't know you had a cat BingoBoingo! :P
BingoBoingo: moiety: I don't
moiety: just kidding, you need to get a corgi
cazalla: moiety: i know about one of those phantom cats (blue mountains panther), we were always told it broke free when a cage overturned from a circus travelling up the mountain
moiety: cazalla: ever seen it? i wonder how many of these phantom cats were secret exotic pets that got loose
cazalla: moiety: nope and i don't know anyone that does, the story changes over time though - where the circus caravan overturned etc
moiety: cazalla: that's one thing that can be said for our nessie, she doesn't ever move lol
jayk: oh me oh my
jayk: love that country pie
jayk: !dirtypic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.56 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.550135 = 3.3008 BTC [-] {2}
KRS-One: no moar bait =(
BingoBoingo: KRS-One: But bait is your favorite
KRS-One: yeah..must fix ozbot..i knew something was going wrong toward the end. He was spitting out links to 70's and black and white porn.
KRS-One: They didn't shave in the 70's..our poor parents had sub par pron indeed. We have it so much better these days.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 476 @ 0.0008881 = 0.4227 BTC [+] {6}
moiety: whenever i write anything, i just sound sarcastic as fuck D:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.0009439 = 12.6011 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.00580748 = 0.3368 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18292 @ 0.00094343 = 17.2572 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.061136 = 0.5502 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 95 @ 0.00580989 = 0.5519 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.061135 = 0.7948 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52450 @ 0.00094122 = 49.367 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15435 @ 0.00094205 = 14.5405 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 335 @ 0.0003882 = 0.13 BTC [-] {4}
MisterE: cazalla: I forgot, what do you do man? work in IT?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.0057785 = 1.1557 BTC [-] {4}
MisterE: we had that great chat the other night then nothing since I feel like I've ben dumped after a hot 1-night stand :p
MisterE: but, without the gay stuff
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0150003 = 0.15 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 16 @ 0.01500009 = 0.24 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.59499998 = 1.19 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.056 = 0.84 BTC [-]
artifexd: ;;ident mod6
gribble: Nick 'mod6', with hostmask 'mod6!ef61891ff2@rider.us', is not identified.
artifexd: ;;rate mod6 1 Runs ATC bot BitOTTer910 in #altcoin
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.
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