Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-03-18 | 2014-03-20 →
mircea_popescu: the irony here being that women do not in fact object to being quite literally enslaved,
mircea_popescu: but they do prefer an actual man.
Shakespeare: indeed
mircea_popescu: and the supply of actual men is so tight... so, so tight...
Shakespeare: well morals and community and etc all serve to pervert this
asciilifeform: 'drive nature out with pitchfork...'
Shakespeare: ignorance is truly bliss
dexX7: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 11 minutes and 54 seconds
BingoBoingo: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
asciilifeform: ;;synchrophasotron
gribble: Error: "synchrophasotron" is not a valid command.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43554 @ 0.00080426 = 35.0287 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07326103 = 0.2198 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.00080381 = 12.3787 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.0008047 = 12.9154 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what is with this 80-88 vibration
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.053002 = 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40820 @ 0.00080092 = 32.6936 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9882 @ 0.00079933 = 7.899 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe someone is playing with themselves and hoping to trap someone when they break pattern?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00079924 = 29.2921 BTC [-]
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
mircea_popescu: check out all teh butthurt lmao
mircea_popescu: "o i had imagined i am important whai is it the case nobody cares"
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1066 blocks | Estimated Change: 7.9920% in 6d 19h 26m 23s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00079852 = 13.2554 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 4000 @ 0.0001 = 0.4 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: All this butthurt over the fact they couldn't identify operators willing to continue indefinitely instead of collapsing at the first sign of opposition
mircea_popescu: this particular guy seems more like the armchair general type.
mircea_popescu: the sort that figures that by spending an inordinate amount of time derping on the internet he has now amassed credibility and importance and should be taken seriously.
BingoBoingo: Well their derping in other of your PR's threads supports that
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time adding code on github they are now decident factors in the future of the world,
mircea_popescu: just like the people who imagine that if they spend a lot of time editing wikipedia they are now qualified to whatever, direct research spending i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39093 @ 0.00080439 = 31.446 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.01690824 = 0.1014 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "The worship appears mutual, and watching Wetern media worship a bunch of nobodys whose idea of public art is going into supermarkets and stuffing frozen chickens in their vaginas (“Pussy Riot,” that is) provides much-needed comic relief."
mircea_popescu: o what is this, disparaging vagina stuffing ?
mircea_popescu: such codgerism.
BingoBoingo: Sentence seems like someone who probably was just weeks ago glorifying the extremes of human performance on display at the olympics. Why the double standard for vaginal performance?
mircea_popescu: in general because old men fear shameless hussies as the likely agents of young alpha males, which is how you say "evil" for old people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 5680 @ 0.00010001 = 0.5681 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: I wonder how many of the Old GLBSE tards are familiar with this latest SEC email exchange? How hurt are the butts that saw Nefario just up and quit?
mircea_popescu: maybe do a poll ?
mircea_popescu: most of them are gone anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 733 @ 0.00080533 = 0.5903 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I wonder if there is a way to get the reaction from those exchange shareholder on welfare. If only there were a log like that of their reactions to be leaked.
mircea_popescu: i suppose if you're very bored you can hunt them all down and ask them, either on irc, via forum pms or w/e.
mircea_popescu: should make for an interesting collection.
mircea_popescu: this is what reporting is made out of, after all. burning the shoe rubber all day.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.0301 = 0.7525 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 567 @ 0.00080598 = 0.457 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 17 @ 0.03001224 = 0.5102 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 15 @ 0.02996344 = 0.4495 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00082313 = 0.1235 BTC [-] {3}
chetty: recall the talk about pilots and lasers? check this out
ozbot: Pilots hit by 'nearly blinding' glare from solar facility | The Daily Caller
benkay: o hey high albedo shit is high albedo
benkay: well, reflective at certain angles
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00080598 = 26.7585 BTC [+]
benkay: dexX7: where'd you get that? it's excellent.
dexX7: reddit :)
benkay: oh hey bitcoin payments for comics
benkay: their authors generate epic backlogs of work (some of them) and the fans are slavish fans who will pay for anything
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35336 @ 0.00080217 = 28.3455 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: i'm kinda amazed that Scenes from a Multiverse doesn't have a first button
punkman: wonder how these monthly subscriptions hold up,
benkay: oh wait Shakespeare see above
benkay: no. credits
benkay: mireca_popescu already figured out out to monetize backlogs of content.
benkay: just...imitate those who get it?
LordPutin: anyone ableto log into the blockchain wallet atm?
benkay: LordPutin: have you tried hedging your losses on bitbet?
benkay: you might be able to troll the operators into putting 100B on "we totes have your butts"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00080012 = 16.0824 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1300 @ 0.0043276 = 5.6259 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00079961 = 33.9035 BTC [-] {2}
bitcoinpete: "Blockchain’s design is based on the principle of giving users 100% control of their funds. We don’t hold your keys and we don’t hold you hostage. You are your own bank." via
LordPutin: oh crap
bitcoinpete: written an hour ago. and they're down again.
LordPutin: i haven't had to enter mypassword in over a year
LordPutin: justbeen using it on the app and it keeps asking me to enter password
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05421217 = 0.1084 BTC [+] {2}
moiety retreats to -assets for safety
moiety: o i thought that was way more recent //scrap
bitcoinpete: lordputin: did you set up email back-ups? either way, will be back eventually and then you can move 99% of those coins somewhere safer.
benkay: hey moiety troll all the freaked out webwallet users with me
LordPutin: but what if i dont remember the password?
LordPutin: am i fucked
moiety: hey benkay ^^
benkay: probly purt darn near
benkay: so bitcoinpete what's your background?
moiety: LordPutin: kinda fucked until site is up anyways
bitcoinpete: benkay: where does one start?
LordPutin: so when website is up can i reset my password?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05429429 = 0.1629 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0666 = 0.1332 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: with magic cards, more than likely
benkay: ah goodness you're a lifeboat guy
benkay: do you know mardlin?
benkay: ah its neat to see lifeboat folks in here
ozbot: Bitcoin Wallet.dat with 629.56 BTC but i lost my 4 Digit password
chetty: why does anyone use webwallets ? I really am curious
benkay: the BSc in Immunology might not be a bad place to start, bitcoinpete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25367 @ 0.00079831 = 20.2507 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: chetty: convenience and idiocy?
benkay: baha moiety
chetty: idiocy I get but convenience? like eating fast food?
moiety: well ours just got entirely fucked over but we had half site funds in cold storage
moiety: hence no moiety for couple days
benkay: ah that's where you've been. too bad to hear, moiety. what happened?
benkay: chetty: mcdonald's is delicious if you've never had a hamburger.
moiety: someone found an exploit and abused the fuck out of it. they actually were honest and paid back but someone else witnessed it and weren't so honest. generated a huge fake balance which they tipped out. emptying our wallet.
moiety: leaving me with a total shit storm to deal with
benkay: o yikes.
moiety: \o/
benkay: total losses, moiety?
moiety: over 100k
moiety: recovered a fair bit though :)
moiety: epic dev work
chetty: ouch
moiety: not btc!!! << play money as mircea woould say :P
benkay: yeah my eyes widened slightly for a second before reason kicked in
benkay: ;;calc 100000*123
gribble: 12300000
moiety: would never keep 100k+btc in hot
moiety: people are pricks seriously
benkay: ya
benkay: soft underbelly etc
moiety: present company excluded obvs
moiety: how have you guys been. yesterdays loges made me laugh
moiety: some people just dont give up huh?!
moiety: logs**
benkay: voof
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6514 @ 0.00080062 = 5.2152 BTC [+]
benkay: honestly rather glad i was traveling.
moiety: lol joe you stay away from my wallet with that name XD
moiety: benkay: anywhere nice?
benkay: the place is kinda fascinating
benkay: in a 'wheels come off society everything headed for oblivion and everyone singing blithely' sort of way
benkay: it's just not polite to say to the babe's family that their part of the world will be delivered unto the ocean along with them and all of their systems of belief and we'll all be much better for it.
benkay: theme park for nominally adult people.
benkay: and we didn't even make it to disneyland!
moiety: lolol
benkay: night moiety
moiety: and err youre right, i'd keep that to yourself re the 'rents XD
bitcoinpete: benkay: well, in a nutshell, those were the dreams-of-smed-school days, a dream resolved by B- grades and a lot of poker. after undergrad, this being alberta, i spent a year selling trucks and started blogging. after selling truck got boring, i did an after-degree in environmental health and spent 2.5 years working as a public health inspector with the province. then…bitcoin. always had an interest in tech, investing,
moiety: nanight benkay :) sleep well
bitcoinpete: philosophy, history. this clicked like nothing else. spent the last year trying to find my bearings. so here we are… blogging about mp's travails and waltzing across logs à la
benkay: oh there's the pete
bitcoinpete: benkay: haha ya...
benkay: i was just headed out, figured i'd spooked ya ;)
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I assume you are aware that Romania has a MLA treaty with the US
bitcoinpete: i had to hone my message, is all. still a lazy effort but alas
joecruel: antephialtic: i assume you are aware mircea is not currently in the channel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62896897 = 1.2579 BTC [+]
antephialtic: joecruel: indeed.
bitcoinpete: benkay: it'll be your turn next time :)
moiety: gribbling ftw
joecruel: antephialtic: !later tell
joecruel: er ;; is the trigger in here
antephialtic: thanks
moiety: i have to ask every time which way round it goes lol
benkay: bitcoinpete: you're likely in a better position to more thoroughly dox me than mp already has
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 900 @ 0.00082311 = 0.7408 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00419804 = 2.099 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: anyways, cheerio
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.05300002 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}
bitcoinpete: BingoBoingo: thanks for fixing that link
BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: You're welcome.
dhenson: lol @ MP's exchange with the SEC.
dhenson: Hornets nest, meet stick.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.06882051 = 0.8258 BTC [+] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05316725 = 0.1595 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1674 @ 0.00015915 = 0.2664 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 87 @ 0.00197917 = 0.1722 BTC [+]
moiety: BB!
moiety: how are you?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61002 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33000 @ 0.00080532 = 26.5756 BTC [+] {2}
antephialtic: dhenson: I'm worried for MP. Romania has a MLAT with the US. They can request romanian gov to compel MP to produce MPEx records
chetty: the title got me:
ozbot: BitBeat: Bitcoin Gets Shakespearean - MoneyBeat - WSJ
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00432793 = 0.2986 BTC [-] {4}
chetty: Bitcoiners are none too pleased with Warren Buffett, and one acolyte is putting his bitcoin where his mouth is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1916 @ 0.00080598 = 1.5443 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6465 @ 0.00080685 = 5.2163 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15250 @ 0.00080429 = 12.2654 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9066 @ 0.00080685 = 7.3149 BTC [+]
Angusm3: anyone selling 0.1 bitcoin?
Angusm3: I'm buying 0.1 bitcoin for $65 CAD
KRS-1: Hey check it out Angusm3
KRS-1: .bait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07000001 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10638 @ 0.00080685 = 8.5833 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: thats me.
dub: drop a sockie? :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26483 @ 0.00080425 = 21.299 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: i thought i'd fallen into otc for a minute
kakobrekla: naw, i grep chan for mentions who rang
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00080685 = 11.1749 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47014 @ 0.00080288 = 37.7466 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1498 @ 0.00015996 = 0.2396 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2820 @ 0.00015999 = 0.4512 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32050 @ 0.00080713 = 25.8685 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29850 @ 0.00080865 = 24.1382 BTC [+] {3}
Radi777: damn that girl wooo
KRS-1: .bait
KRS-1: gross too manish for me
KRS-1: thats like a dude with boobs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05260503 = 0.1052 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06775 = 0.1355 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31950 @ 0.00081001 = 25.8798 BTC [+] {2}
frenchie: nice talk with the sec
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00080906 = 9.2637 BTC [-]
HeySteve: uncompromising yet polite
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61 = 2.44 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.6022004 = 6.022 BTC [-] {6}
LordPutin: i hope mp doesn't snitch on all of us to sec, i'm scared
HeySteve: SEC seems pretty toothless to rein in Wall Street
HeySteve: Chilton said as much
HeySteve: not sure they'll have much better luck with Bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00081038 = 30.2677 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: so some LordPutin is afraid of the SEC ?
Apocalyptic: sounds unlikely
LordPutin: they havea file on you as well dood
LordPutin: aren't you a bit scared?
Apocalyptic: totallt
Apocalyptic: *totally
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11067 @ 0.00081038 = 8.9685 BTC [+]
chetty: it just makes your irs file fatter
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1010 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.2675% in 6d 8h 39m 28s
mircea_popescu: it is simply not belivable how tight these bets get.
only: wisdom of the crowd in action?
mircea_popescu: i see no other explanation.
mircea_popescu: "all the humanistic victories of Soviet socialism" oh save me rwanda. asciilifeform what the fuck is the gent on about.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00432959 = 0.8659 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 828 @ 0.00432968 = 3.585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 135 @ 0.00432982 = 0.5845 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00435 = 0.8265 BTC [+]
Izzy_: hello pa
Izzy_: rty people
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 395 @ 0.00438211 = 1.7309 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.00081045 = 24.2325 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00439999 = 0.484 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.02566335 = 0.7956 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14244 @ 0.00081072 = 11.5479 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 632 @ 0.00015998 = 0.1011 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0008107 = 17.5922 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00596453 = 0.4473 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52518 @ 0.00081104 = 42.5942 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;calc (0.00082 - 0.00080328) / 0.00082
gribble: 0.0203902439024
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98850 @ 0.00081128 = 80.195 BTC [+] {3}
davout: x.eur wai u no volume?
mircea_popescu: davout tiny walls and erratic supply.
davout: mircea_popescu: tiny walls shouldn't really matter since if you place an order the mm bot will now trade against it
mircea_popescu: well how'd people know abotu this ?
davout: you'll get filled in bits of whatever its order size currently is
mircea_popescu: basically, sucess of a product - any product - is built out of predictable, dependable supply of good quality and some advertising.
mircea_popescu: which of the two have you been doing ?
davout: well, i'm now done with the former and getting busy with the latter right now
mircea_popescu: then ask again in a week or w/e :D
davout: two weeks, no volume, the mm must be running
mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: no data 7 day: average: 0.00212399 high: 0.00213452 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2081 btc: 4.42002826 30 day: average: 0.0020996 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7008 btc: 14.71400992
davout: let's see how this plays out
davout: basically my point is that the mm algo is now what i imagined it to be initially, so that it should work as everyone expects it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00080917 = 31.8408 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: hi - are you around, mircea_popescu?
mircea_popescu: davout cool beans.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00417098 = 0.8467 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: huh, a guy from -otc has apparently been asked to appear on one of those pawn shop reality tv shows with his casascius coins
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Is that -otc guy you?
Neil: mircea_popescu> Neil wanna bet on that ? << Time lapse, no idea what you're referring to.
nubbins`: some guy i've sold a bunch to
mircea_popescu: Neil something you said about no more diff jumps over 20%
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00417041 = 0.3336 BTC [-] {4}
Neil: mircea_popescu: Ah, absolutely. I intend to submit a bet soon but you or your stooges rejected my last one, so was waiting a while.
Neil: Quite happy to put money down
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 149 @ 0.0041704 = 0.6214 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: coolness.
Neil: In fact I consider 20% too safe; was gonna make it more interesting.
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 992 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.7517% in 6d 5h 11m 16s
Neil: Lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00081296 = 38.2904 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: the beauty of a functioning free market, which bitbet amply is by now, is that it really doesn't matter so much : whatever value you pick the odds will probably stack correctly.
Neil: Would be interesting to see a plot of, um, what? Implied odds vs time?
Neil: With final outcome?
Neil: There are some that just turn out to be flukes at the last moment (like the gox collapse in the last 2 weeks of the gox price > 150 bet)
mircea_popescu: there's a plot of that in every bet, that little rectangle.
blackwhite: morning
mircea_popescu: speaking of which :
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla how about expanding the histograph to fill the whole section ?
mircea_popescu: like instead of going to the right of Histograph: make it go under
mircea_popescu: 1.5ish as wide, about the same as tall as it is inow
Neil: b.t.w. I claim full credit for the 10% bet
mircea_popescu: a you put it in ?
Neil: Indeed
Apocalyptic: Neil, you bet on the Yes side I presume
mircea_popescu: judging by the addresses he bet on no
Neil: Well given the above info it's a matter of public record what my initial bet was. What happened thereafter is for you to guess and me to know.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the mod stacked it 9/1, exactly opposite of the 1/11 the bettors stacked it.
mircea_popescu: insanity.
nubbins`: i'm trying to construct a reasonably sound bet on the price of, and i'm wondering if anyone has input on the conditions
nubbins`: i'm saying 2x par by <date>
mircea_popescu: why not make it explicit, 0.0002 by date
nubbins`: sure
nubbins`: the low volume presents a dilemma tho
mircea_popescu: vwap is vwap
mircea_popescu: $vwap
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
mircea_popescu: 30day avg.
nubbins`: that could work
mircea_popescu: course it'd depend on how far out
nubbins`: didn't want some bozo with a spare 20btc to just buy up and own the bet
nubbins`: is there a max limit to how far out? i was thinking april 1 2015
mircea_popescu: 1 year afair
Neil: HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4=
nubbins`: trying to find a way to turn this warrant into something that generates money before it's cashed ;D
Neil: Signature of "Neil" with the payout addr of the 10% bet
mircea_popescu: how do those things even work ?
Neil: What things?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, people running bots : how about adding a command that will parse one of these sigsigned shits into human format ?
mircea_popescu: ;;sig HExKIkoPb28rVbuOluqStOoBPMv4KqE9b1CiajC7EVABy2jYunQxN0BzhF9CXD1Z301C1Krsrd60pgw+DvQgPs4= -> string "string" signed by address "adress" on date "date"
gribble: Error: "sig" is not a valid command.
Neil: Not sure re bots
mircea_popescu: would take some c/p from github, but why not ?
Apocalyptic: mircea, I believe the address nor the date is included in the sig, it's just a b64 ecoding of binary data
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic because the powerfully retarded rangers are retarded. that format is fucking useless.
mircea_popescu: but perhaps it could somehow be extended into utility ?
Apocalyptic: yes it kinda is
Neil: I think you need the signature, the message and the address. I doubt 2 of those 3 is enough for software
Neil: Not even sure it's possible without the actual public key. Is it?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea.
Neil: hehe
mircea_popescu: i've never read how sigsig is actually implemented in code.
BingoBoingo: I was under the impression the sig contained the unhashed Pub key of an address
kakobrekla: yes address is good enough, still need all 3
Neil: BingoBoingo: I suspect you're right
mircea_popescu: i thought so too
mircea_popescu: lol china accepts new zealand dollar convertibility ?!
mircea_popescu: are they intending to colonize that island or what.
Neil: mircea_popescu: Was amusing to read your 1-way conversation with the SEC. Did they respond beyond what you posted, or did it just go silent?
mircea_popescu: went silent.
mircea_popescu: which is why i posted.
mircea_popescu: two weeks is the term.
Neil: Cool, thought as much
Duffer1: they'd need more than just a request from a functionary in order for things to get more interesting
Neil: waxman had enough of being made the fool of
mircea_popescu: her job sucks,. for the record.
Duffer1: no doubt
mircea_popescu: she spent 100k / 10 years in school in order to find a shitty office job,
Neil: Well, that's her choice. My jobs sucks, so I quit
mircea_popescu: which requires her basically to try and get people to talk to her on the phone
mircea_popescu: and read a script to them.
Duffer1: <--available for that job
mircea_popescu: she's no different from the average indian girl, except the indian girl is 19 not 29
Neil: But given her intro, I'm sure she loved the effect that "enforcement office for the SEC" or whatever it was had on 90% of the plebs
mircea_popescu: so really, it sucks to be her in ways one doesn't really fathom
kakobrekla: free caek
ozbot: Starting a new FPGA mining farm/contract Cognitive Resurrected on[Havelock]
mircea_popescu: Neil so people think, but from what i know the bureaucrats rarely actually enjoy their job
Neil: mircea_popescu: I'm certain you're right.
Neil: But unluckily for them it's the best they've got, in most cases
mircea_popescu: if given the choice, this girl would have been doing something a little less retarded with her life.
mircea_popescu: however, she was born in the soviets.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: I was about to post that, Mining Company can't operate shovels, sells shovels
kakobrekla: i already told them what they are figuring out now, half a year ago
kakobrekla: but, no slander.
BingoBoingo: Interesting to see how many alts Garr can manage for all of this shill bidding
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i have a quote for you somewhere
mircea_popescu: Quote from: kokonut on March 17, 2014, 10:02:54 AM
mircea_popescu: You are the sort of brainwashed halfwit who thinks the responsibility for the lost BTC of MtGOX customers lies with the customers, because "it's their fault for using MtGOX".
mircea_popescu: brainwashed halfwit.
kakobrekla: i have nothing.
Neil: I hope the next 5 years makes joe blow aware of his level of brainwashing. But not holding my breath.
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institutions [such as the SEC], a guide
Neil: Yesterday had "exit interview" at bigcorp from which I resigned my shitty job.
Neil: As always, asked to sign "Confidentiality agreement". Turned up without said paper, amongst all the rest.
Neil: Usual game of "didn't we ask send you the papers".
Duffer1: they'll dick around with your severance if you don't sign that
Neil: "Yes". "But I'm not gonna sign it for you for the first time, given my history of not signing this shit". "Oh, OK."
ozbot: Possible Scammer - John K
nubbins`: neil, good for you
Neil: Duffer1: This company has no leverage at all! The previous one did, but still did nothing. It's all just lawyer crap.
Duffer1: good
Neil: Previous one had about $250k of restricted stock.
nubbins`: BingoBoingo again?!
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Well he was the escrow for so many shitty forum things
nubbins`: capital-E Escrow, even
mircea_popescu: namworld / jurov what's BingoBoingo;s link all about ?
Neil: That $250k went straight into BTC as soon as it could
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no but this happens to be connected, scrat;s runnig coinroll or something, afaik
jurov: well John K was holding 100btc escrow for coinroll raffle
BingoBoingo: This whole John K escrow thing just shows why Multisig is super bad
jurov: for purpose if Scrat was not available or whatever
jurov: and indeed it happened, but John did not pay
mircea_popescu: what, just like that ?
jurov: and he's still silent even after Scrast told him to
kakobrekla: yummy yummy btc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.06666024 = 0.6666 BTC [-] {4}
HeySteve: I had funds with JohnK during his long unexplained absence
HeySteve: I thought he made good with everyone, or is this a new episode?
mircea_popescu: new episode
kakobrekla: might be a season
ozbot: Five-Year-Old Mutton Bustin' Rider Eats It
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15711 @ 0.00080959 = 12.7195 BTC [-]
Neil: I recall there was a John K scam accusation that lasted about 3 wks last September-ish, and went quiet in an unconvincing way.
Neil: So not surprised to see this now
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 440 @ 0.00223045 = 0.9814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07 = 0.21 BTC [-]
HeySteve: is there someone you guys would recommend to handle escrow?
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i have a few btc in escrow with salty spitoon atm
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 160 @ 0.00223045 = 0.3569 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00223045 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00223045 volume: 600 btc: 1.33827 7 day: average: 0.00214782 high: 0.00223045 low: 0.00210539 volume: 2681 btc: 5.75829826 30 day: average: 0.00210992 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.0019005 volume: 7608 btc: 16.05227992
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1/ 0.00223045
gribble: 448.340021072
nubbins`: i've done maybe 10btc worth of deals and escrow with salty
nubbins`: he's not on irc tho, forums only
HeySteve: ok thanks, will speak to salty next time
mircea_popescu: tell him to come on irc lol
nubbins`: i'd offer to escrow, but who am i, anyway? :D
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust nubbins`
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`! Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user nubbins`: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
nubbins`: oh, that's who!
mircea_popescu: not that bad.
HeySteve: ;;getrust nubbins`
gribble: Error: "getrust" is not a valid command.
nubbins`: you missed a T
HeySteve: I don't get output
HeySteve: ;;gettrust nubbins`
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask nubbins`! Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user nubbins`: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
nubbins`: you typed get rust
nubbins`: and i'm not rusted ;(
mircea_popescu: lol get rust
HeySteve: ah ha... still not tho
Neil: mircea_popescu: Kinda surprised by your faith in WoT. I'm not on it, but have had many dealings with reputable "players". Not sure I believe anything on it, given the rep it assigned to "pirateat40" just before he "did the inevitable".
mircea_popescu: anduck went negative ? when did that happen ?
nubbins`: HeySteve: well, if you don't have a WoT identity, ;;gettrust isn't going to do anything for you :)
HeySteve: do I need to be registered for WoT?
mircea_popescu: Neil didja read mpoe-pr's discussion of that topic ?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: scammorz
mircea_popescu: nubbins` seriously ? details ?
Neil: mircea_popescu: Maybe, maybe not.
ozbot: Rating Details for User 'anduck'
Neil: Read a lot of garbage. Signal-to-noise is tought.
Neil: tough
nubbins`: looks like a bunch of socks
nubbins`: (and rg)
mircea_popescu: a that's bs.
nubbins`: HeySteve: yep, you do
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 143 @ 0.00416001 = 0.5949 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it's a tool. it doesn't work by itself.
nubbins`: ;;rated anduck
gribble: You rated user anduck on Thu Nov 7 11:50:53 2013, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: patron of the arts.
Daphna_A_Waxman_: hello all
Daphna_A_Waxman_: can you read this?
mircea_popescu: hello cam888
mircea_popescu: oops i mean Daphna_A_Waxman_
nubbins`: and they say government grants are the only way to make a living in the arts.
Daphna_A_Waxman_: Hi Mircea
Daphna_A_Waxman_: I'm not recording this conversation
Daphna_A_Waxman_: Anything we discuss is between you and I.
Daphna_A_Waxman_: I can promise you confidentiality.
mircea_popescu: that's nice, but this is a public channel and it is logged, as per the topic.
BingoBoingo: Daphna_A_Waxman_: Actually this channel is recorded and logged
kakobrekla: !topic
mircea_popescu: that aside, when did you get transferred to thailand ?
nubbins`: ^ HEH
kakobrekla: no u confuse me mp, its ;;
kakobrekla: ;;topic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 387 @ 0.00416 = 1.6099 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: spammors the lot of ye.
Daphna_A_Waxman_: I'm just here on a sex vacation.
HeySteve: story checks out
mircea_popescu: this is the wrong instagram.
Daphna_A_Waxman_: The girls in this country are amazing! They will do ANYTHING
mircea_popescu: anyway, 6/10.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla GOT YOU :D
Neil: mircea_popescu: Yeah. Not sure if MP == MPOE, but yeah I realize most of that. I've felt it's not worth the effort (small group of people who know each other in real life has been enough so far) but I get the point, but not convinced yet.
nubbins`: HeySteve: /msg gribble help eregister is as good a place as any to stary
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 269 @ 0.0041103 = 1.1057 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: *start
mircea_popescu: Neil well whatever works, you know ?
Neil: Workage == low, it seems so far
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, the wot existed in other implementations every time small groups wanted to trade on a large scale.
HeySteve: thanks Nubbins, will do so. been meaning to check out the system for a while
mircea_popescu: basically you're telling me that you don't need a hansa seal because you only trade in novgorod
nubbins`: it's one of those things that behooves you to get straightened away sooner rather than later
ozbot: Federal Eye
nubbins`: so don't wait too long ;D
mircea_popescu: good for you, but once you wish to send your kid to marry some chick in goteborg you damned straight will.
Neil: But for that reason I found it amusing you asking that waxman loser to get herself on WoT
HeySteve: SEC was fiddling while Rome burnt
LordPutin: i'm worried about sec is going to do to mp next :(
LordPutin: we need mp in the bitcoin community
Neil: bitcoin doesn't need a community or anything or anyone. That's why it rocks.
mircea_popescu: LordPutin i read somewhar on the forum that he's a dinosaur - well, at least when wearing heels - and will soon be superseded by some random forumer with opinions
mircea_popescu: so nothing to worry.
Neil: But there exists a bunch of interesting characters. That's undeniable.
LordPutin: oh i thought it was a girl
LordPutin: sounded like a girls name
nubbins`: i bet you think nikita is a girl's name, too
mircea_popescu: hruschev was a gal.
nubbins` cackles
mircea_popescu: full figured gal*
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00080828 = 36.6959 BTC [-] {3}
Neil: Eh? I work with a nikita. Convinced it's a dude.
Neil: Was I wrong?
nubbins`: what is "wrong", anyway?
Neil: lol
HeySteve: ok nubbins, I have a GPG key, will work through this
Shakespeare: "The Apaches were never defeated because they didn't fight in the open" well...
nubbins`: great. upload it to a keyserver, /msg gribble eregister heysteve <key id>, and you're off
nubbins`: oh, and keep your keys safe ;(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 96 @ 0.00411 = 0.3946 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: United States of Apache
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: updated with the pdf cause apparently ppls wanted it.
jurov: so you did not hear from them since?
nubbins`: dat inconsistent capitalization
ozbot: Federal Eye
mircea_popescu: this is extremely lulzy, especially seeing how the girl claimed (and i believe her) tyhat she can't get on freenode.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: negbombers. gettrust matters
mircea_popescu: so on one hand, they can't do their jobs. on the other, jacking off all day anyway
LordPutin: maybe shes here now
mircea_popescu: Anduck aha.
LordPutin hides
Shakespeare: the pdf says itself the whole thing is voluntary
Duffer1: "This inquiry is non-public.."
only: Erik, quick, get a Romanian passport
asciilifeform: what's it take to get one of those, anyway ?
only: you need a Moldavian one, first, and you can actually buy one
Shakespeare: "In one instance, a regional office staff account admitted viewing pornography on his office computer and on his SEC-issued laptop while on official government travel. Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said."
Shakespeare: kinda sounds like he was hacked or sumth
nubbins`: Shakespeare: HER
Shakespeare: "A senior attorney at SEC headquarters in Washington admitted he sometimes spent as much as eight hours viewing pornography from his office computer, according to the report. The attorney’s computer ran out of space for the downloaded images, so he started storing them on CDs and DVDs that he stored in his office."
nubbins`: "nearly 1,800 access denials"
nubbins`: imagine
nubbins`: "well, the last 1,799 times i've tried to load motherless, it's been blocked... maybe today is the day"
Shakespeare: "This stunning report should make everyone question the wisdom of moving forward with plans to give regulators like the SEC even more widespread authority," Issa said
Shakespeare: man these people consume mas porn
nubbins`: mucho mas
nubbins`: (with a shout-out to pynchon)
LordPutin: why are theyso interested in s.diceanyway, was the sale illegal?
asciilifeform: for dekulakization, most likely.
Shakespeare: well as i understand it, most SEC investigations are a reaction
Shakespeare: so likely someone filed a complain
LordPutin: ahh ok
LordPutin: makes sense
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [7C] 50 @ 0.00284602 = 0.1423 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: if i had to guess, it'd be someone who either felt gypped by his offering of the added tranches, and/or someone that felt gypped by the closing settlement
nubbins`: my mother is a gypsy, you insensitive clod
Duffer1: or the IRS just looking for its pound of flesh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
LordPutin: id sayitsthesecond one
Shakespeare: well at least her people stole a verb outta the deal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00596183 = 0.5962 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.08001 = 0.8001 BTC [-] {2}
Neil: "Trapped in the indecision of another fine menu". Love it
HeySteve: hey nubbins, I made a new cert and put the revoke on an encrypted volume. any idea where GPG places the cert itself in Windows?
nubbins`: you can export your private key pretty easily via command line
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 10 @ 0.02125914 = 0.2126 BTC [-] {4}
HeySteve: ok but I want to place the original in the encrypted volume so no one can access it (easily)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.01600027 = 0.32 BTC [-] {2}
HeySteve: or is that stored within GPG somehow and not accessible? still pretty new at this stuff
nubbins`: nod. no idea where it's stored right now, but export spits it out as plaintext
nubbins`: which you can then copy, paste into a text file on your encrypted whatever
only: or a buthurt gambler, perhaps?
HeySteve: I see, should probably work out if there's another copy just hanging around on the HD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18078 @ 0.00080959 = 14.6358 BTC [+]
nubbins`: probably, but it's encrypted with your impossibly long, difficult to guess passphrase
nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username"
nubbins`: try that
nubbins`: gpg --export-secret-key -a "username" --output privatekey.asc
HeySteve: ok thanks
nubbins`: it'd be prudent to try restoring these keys on another machine, as well
nubbins`: what's the usefulness of a backup you can't restore, etc
Shakespeare: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5% unemployment rate as a gauge to start discussing when to raise interest rates. But several Fed officials have said they don’t find the jobless rate reference useful now that the rate, at 6.7% in February, is near the 6.5% threshold."
Ghaleon: 2Mircea <- one tuff dude!
Ghaleon: Daphne is sweatin!!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 63 @ 0.00181043 = 0.1141 BTC [-] {11}
Shakespeare: Fork in 3... 2...
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 977 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.4696% in 6d 1h 37m 20s
Neil: hah
HeySteve: I can get it to display the key but not output to a file for some reason
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.05427484 = 1.0855 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00080973 = 16.4375 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0666 = 0.4662 BTC [-]
HeySteve: you have to put the output switch upfront is all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05438232 = 0.9245 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 14 @ 0.05558566 = 0.7782 BTC [+] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05685 = 0.1137 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06583333 = 0.1975 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: yknow who needs to be jailed, the Domain Registry of America people
Shakespeare: they send snailmail to clients all the time as what appears to be a renewal bill
Shakespeare: but really it's just a trick
Neil: "The Fed has been targeting a 6.5%..." Joke? Like they think they can target anything? The world gets on witih it, they sit there observing.
artifexd: I put my gpg key id on my website. Should I link it to a plain text file of the key or to its location on a key server?
mircea_popescu: "Another staff account received nearly 1,800 access denials for pornography Web sites in a two-week period and had more than 600 images saved on her laptop’s hard drive, the report said." << HER drive ?!
mircea_popescu: and people say women don't watch pronz.
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare this will be nice data for when people start bitching about .bait
the20year1: any more news from teh SEC?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 42 @ 0.0056706 = 0.2382 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
Apocalyptic: artifexd, you could do both
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon ello.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: artifexd, but I would rather go for the plain text file I think
mircea_popescu: "The new behavior of `walletpassphrase` is to set a new unlock time overriding
mircea_popescu: the old one:"
mircea_popescu: this is so fucking stupid.
mircea_popescu: who did that!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42595 @ 0.00081027 = 34.5135 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
artifexd: Apocalyptic Thank you for your opinion.
Ghaleon: Hi Mircea
Ghaleon: you kicked serious ass brother
Ghaleon: the writing was also excellent
Ghaleon: Ms. Waxman was shocked I am sure
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0551034 = 0.1653 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.065 = 0.195 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00081344 = 14.8046 BTC [+]
Ghaleon: telling a Sec investigator to find you on IRC..... that will go down in history
mircea_popescu: i tell that to everyone, what. people gotta get with the times.
Ghaleon: imagine Ben Bernanke pops up here
Ghaleon: lol
kakobrekla: he will get banned
mod6: lol
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla whai
kakobrekla: spamming usd
kakobrekla: fuck dat
Ghaleon: lolz
mircea_popescu: first pankkake stoled his coin, nao you ban him ?
kakobrekla: no spam policy is strict
Ghaleon: without Spamming Ben will fade away... the boy must spam to sustain himself
nubbins`: $vwap
mpexbot: nubbins`: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 7 day: average: 0.00010003 high: 0.000101 low: 0.00010001 volume: 6000 btc: 0.6001788 30 day: average: 0.0001239 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 11432 btc: 1.4163868
kakobrekla: anyway
kakobrekla: ben is out of the picture
nubbins`: wow, 6k btc volume today
kakobrekla: he is irrelevant
Ghaleon: yeah but Ben still has the US NAVY in his pocket
ozbot: Bitcoins are like 'glass beads', warns Danish national bank | Technology |
kakobrekla: so discussion about baning him is fruitless
Ghaleon: it is a battle of inches folks. we are making awesome ground. a peoples currency will remove their main pillar of control
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla what if he comes here for his retirement
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you made that ?
kakobrekla: what if we dont play what if!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course
mircea_popescu: i guess ima put a little on no, hedge this properly.
BingoBoingo: Wonder if it will turn into a 1000 BTC+ nailbiter near the end
Shakespeare: "UK's new 12-sided £1 said to be the world's most secure coin"
Shakespeare: more sides = more security
Apocalyptic: many sides, such secure
Apocalyptic: seriously
kakobrekla: 12 sided coin?
kakobrekla: you mean its not round?
Shakespeare: well it's low-resolution round
Shakespeare: 12bit gfx
HeySteve: ;;gpg info HeySteve
gribble: User 'HeySteve', with keyid F8E87076CA58441F, fingerprint B14929A9933420C966FB409EF8E87076CA58441F, and bitcoin address None, registered on Wed Mar 19 11:30:37 2014. . Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve .
kakobrekla: how does that make for security
mircea_popescu: low resolution round hahaha
kakobrekla: i thought the great invetion was the wheel
mircea_popescu: anywyaq, they had those before, the half quid iirc
kakobrekla: not the square
kakobrekla: or the box
kakobrekla: or whatever
kakobrekla: rectangle
Shakespeare: Reverend Jesse Jackson calls out Silicon Valley for lack of racial and gender diversity
kakobrekla: you only have 4 genders there? UNACEPTABRU
Shakespeare: must import katecraig to reach homeostasis
ozbot: Putin: Crimea similar to Kosovo, West is rewriting its own rule book (FULL SPEECH) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: homeostahahahaha
LordPutin: so true
mircea_popescu: LordPutin his mistake is to call it "the west"
mircea_popescu: he should simply speak of the us, drive the eu wedge all the way.
LordPutin: great speech
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06649992 = 0.1995 BTC [+] {3}
LordPutin: good point mircea
mircea_popescu: already the traitorous bunch (italy, france, etc)
mircea_popescu: are looking for an exit of ignorance
mircea_popescu: ("i didn't cheat on you honey, the us forced me me!!1 I was duped, and raped!! ")
LordPutin: Putin should just be the president of europe
HeySteve: ;;gettrust HeySteve
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask HeySteve!HeySteve@unaffiliated/heysteve. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user HeySteve: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
nubbins`: does bitbet explicitly state that it uses UTC, or should a bet itself make note of this?
LordPutin: 20mins in he starts talkign about the us
LordPutin: andhe's spot on
mircea_popescu: gmt, in faq
Ghaleon: Putin = THE MAN
Ghaleon: Mircea, good point about driving a wedge between ruope and the usa
Ghaleon: Europe sees how cool and fair Putin is... people r getting sick of the usa's meddling and hypocrisy
LordPutin: i'm going to name my kid putin because i want him to grow up strong and handsome
LordPutin: very true ghaleon
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon no, more like europe doesn't give a shit and needs the gas.
mircea_popescu: "man faces a felony charge after he was arrested by police at a township board meeting when he refused to stop talking past a three-minute time limit for public comment. "
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ^
mircea_popescu: i guess asciilifeform ^ too
nubbins`: man can no longer vote after speaking for 181 seconds
mircea_popescu: the soviets never did this, even.
BingoBoingo: Wasn't me this time
BingoBoingo: Allegedly
BingoBoingo: Eh, I voted yesterday anyways
Ghaleon: we are going thru our Boleshevik revolution now here in the usa
thestringpuller: ;;ud you heard?
gribble: | A subsitute for 'y'know, often heard in jails or prison uttered by uneducated inmates during conversation between cells. Can be used to validate th...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: you heard
LordPutin: .putinbait
nubbins`: "For this bet to resolve as YES, 30-day VWAP of S.MG must be above 0.0002 on MPEx on October 1, 2014." << thoughts? seem simple enough?
mircea_popescu: on mpex is spurious
mike_c_z: you specifically want "on"? not "on or before"?
nubbins`: don't want some schmo arguing about havelock PT
mircea_popescu: "This is shocking, because nobody in the world has ever seen a penis before. Life as we know it will never be the same."
BingoBoingo: ;; ud poopsterbate
gribble: | Apr 30, 2005 ... I heard Mark poopsterbating on the toilet last night. Andy enjoys to poopsterbate. "Want to watch me poosterbate?" Stephen asked. by ShawnB ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: poopsterbate
mircea_popescu: especially those two broads.
Shakespeare: they were only prparing
Shakespeare: not surprised
Shakespeare: open wide!
nubbins`: mike_c_z: specifically on october 1, yep
nubbins`: i don't want to have to be constantly checking it
mircea_popescu: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | None based on data since last change | 4616703922.4 based on data for last three days
gribble: 4.2502179198695354E9
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 975 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.0906% in 6d 2h 4m 7s
Shakespeare: Auto dealers fire back at Tesla CEO: 'This Musk guy, he wants all the profits for himself'
mircea_popescu: "for his own car"
Shakespeare: "They wanted to go direct, which means no sales force. That’s cutting out a lot of people. No way that’s gonna fly."
Shakespeare: i just dont get it
mircea_popescu: it's new york.
mircea_popescu: this is what they do.
mike_c_z: "During negotiations Musk left the auto dealers waiting for two hours while he checked with his manager"
mircea_popescu: they figure they're worth something on the grounds they exist.
Shakespeare: makes me want a Tesla, really
Shakespeare: i dont drive enough to care though
sheldonthomas: hi. are havelock investment questions relevant in this channel
nubbins`: sure
sheldonthomas: in the neobee prospectus it says "LMB Holdings, nor any employee, affiliate, or consultant are liable for any losses caused by default, theft, exploitation, manipulation, “hacking”, or software errors within the host exchange."
jurov: only havelock staff is not here
sheldonthomas: shouldn't that be are _not_ liable
nubbins`: yep, that's poor wording
sheldonthomas: there's a typo in the prospectus
sheldonthomas: just checking, thanks
nubbins`: guess they forgot the "Neither"
jurov: sheldonthomas you plan to exploit it?
nubbins`: proofreading is important
nubbins`: too bad nobody bothers
mike_c: ;;seen topace
gribble: topace was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <topace> ^ you'll have to contact support
sheldonthomas: no exploit -- but i must admit, that's a surefire way to turn off a prospective investor
jurov: mike_c: topace isn't the staff for several months already
kakobrekla: i thought it would turn you on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10805 @ 0.00081333 = 8.788 BTC [-]
mike_c: well, he's still staff. just not owner.
kakobrekla: topace is not hl anymo?
mircea_popescu: sheldonthomas they're experts with actual lawyers and everything, not some random clueless kids without an education
mircea_popescu: as a result their contracts say exactly what they mean : LMB is responsible for any havelock theft etc
Apocalyptic: kako, allegedly
mircea_popescu: both as an entity as well as all its principals etc.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` there's no sauch thing as poor wording in a contracxt.
mircea_popescu: what it says is what is.
jurov: kakobrekla even if he still is, he defers everything to panamanians
kakobrekla: but a kiss is not a contract
sheldonthomas: at mircea that's very enlightening thanks for the clarification
kakobrekla: i mean prospectus, not kiss.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla he claims he's no longer involved, quite transparently fraudulently.
kakobrekla: where did he claim that
mike_c: he claims he is technical side only
mircea_popescu: it's in this log actually.
kakobrekla: fuckin noobs not reading the log, i hate those
mircea_popescu: some people got a dayjob, yo!
mircea_popescu: can't hang out here all day watching KRS-1's pron
topace: hi
sheldonthomas: mircea_popescu but upon further thought the sentence still doesn't make sense because of "nor" in the context of making an action-positive statement
mircea_popescu: so they added a spurious n. typo.
topace: i am indeed no longer involved with the BUSINESS side of havelock
kakobrekla: topace is there an official statement re you and hl
topace: but i am still involved in the technical side
topace: since many months
Shakespeare: the wording has been updated for clarification
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare one can "update" contracts nao ?!
mircea_popescu: what is this, like gigavps ?
kakobrekla: Shakespeare you are with neobee?
sheldonthomas: it needs the word "Neither" at the beginning or to not use the word "nor" at all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.34873140 BTC to 3`970 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
kakobrekla: a prospectus is not a contract ?
topace: November 1, 2013 officially the operation of havelock was handed off to the panama fund s.a.
ThickAsThieves: nor has been removed
jurov: topace, can't you make them man the irc? so that they aren't so outrageously clueless?
mircea_popescu: jurov empty virtual offices can not man irc.
nubbins`: "19-03-2014PendingMark Karpeles, Mt. Gox CEO, to be Murdered or Imprisoned"
nubbins`: well that reads like a badbet
kakobrekla: its a pass the bomb kinda thing, nefario and ukyo failed on that
LordPutin: lol approve plz
jurov: mircea in the process of coiroll listing, we are interacting with some virtual entities that seem too stupid to be completely virtual
kakobrekla: btctc tried since get go
asciilifeform: gasenwagenbait.
kakobrekla: nobody took a bite
mircea_popescu: jurov lmao i see
topace: no, i cant make them "man the irc"
mircea_popescu: or exist, for that matter.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.99112370 BTC to 13`595 shares, 14646 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07299999 = 0.146 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0542 = 0.542 BTC [-] {4}
topace: the offices are real, feel free to visit them in panama, several community members already have
mircea_popescu: or, in the immortal words of costanza,
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Or we don't even send the check and then when they call, we pretend we're the cleaning service. Heh heh. "Hello? I sorry, no here Kruger."
kakobrekla: theres a po box and everything
jcpham: confirmed legit
jcpham: google map'd it bro
kakobrekla: i was there, saw him do it
LordPutin: please allow that Mark Karpelas bet to happen
kakobrekla: i dun think it fits the rules
nubbins`: putting out a murder-for-hire does indeed break the rules
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05559995 = 0.1112 BTC [+] {2}
LordPutin: or imprisoned
asciilifeform: imprisonment-for-hire ?
jcpham: i already dialed 911 and reported the chat
jcpham: everyone stay calm
mircea_popescu: there's exactly 0 way he can end up in jail this year.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00449839 = 0.2249 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: this will be argued in court for a while
kakobrekla: i would have thrown myself outta window
kakobrekla: in his shoes
kakobrekla: prolly even before starting gox
asciilifeform: speaking of which,
ozbot: 28-Year Old Former JPMorgan Banker Jumps To His Death, Latest In Series Of Recent Suicides | Zero He
asciilifeform: 'street pizza.'
LordPutin: i would like to see a bitbet that australia wontwin a single group match for the world cup this year
LordPutin: not sure how to word it tho
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05435 = 0.1087 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: don't forget to include which sport it is
nubbins`: streetza
only: asciilifeform: isn't 28 a bit kindof early?
mircea_popescu: $vwap X.IDIFF.MAR
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.MAR 1 day: no data 7 day: no data 30 day: average: 0.00294764 high: 0.003 low: 0.00290837 volume: 350 btc: 1.031674
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
nubbins`: zerohedge sure does know how to make a comment thread easy to read
nubbins`: i find i digest information most easily when it's crammed into a fuckin one-inch column
jurov: mircea_popescu: you already liquidating it? just got something
mircea_popescu: jurov yup preparing announcement
mircea_popescu: nubbins` word.
mircea_popescu: goes in and out of ass easier that way
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: "reader comments: now easier than ever to pass"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06729989 = 0.3365 BTC [+] {4}
ozbot: The hunter becomes the hunted: insect evolves to eat poisonous corn | The Verge
ThickAsThieves: a friend of mine actually is one of the scientists working on these kind bug killers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74537 @ 0.00080863 = 60.2729 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: you ever get your mp-as-hitler portrait sorted after?
mircea_popescu: haven't received it yet.
mircea_popescu: end of month was deadline iirc ?
nubbins`: can't recall
nubbins`: thestringpuller was commissioning a portrait of you for the conference, but he sat on his hands too long and it won't be ready
nubbins`: shame, it was gonna be pretty sick
nubbins`: mp as napoleon ;0
mircea_popescu: afaik he's not actuallyt comin so prolly why
nubbins`: there's sketches somewhere
nubbins`: was gonna be a cross between the picture of you squinting in the desert and this:
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.06981818 = 0.768 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: X.IDIFF.MAR has settled. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
kakobrekla: oh wow.
nubbins`: HEH.
ThickAsThieves: "I see myself forced to conclude the contract is not well understood by market participants, which is a problem that will have to be addressed."
kakobrekla: faggot pants
ThickAsThieves: you could always improve the design
jurov: ^ yes, i'm very curious how circumspectly is mp gonna fix it
ThickAsThieves: obv jurov and i have beat this horse enough though
jurov: *haven't
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves you mean the css?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the design ?! of the contract ?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu make it bold
kakobrekla: and italics
ThickAsThieves: yeah surely that's what i meant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.0008128 = 31.0083 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i thought we could just show up in romania on the 17th and just listen to what people had to say
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla my faggot pants are more css than yours :D
ThickAsThieves: i mean the design of the instrument
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there was no official registration except for VIP's
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller mebbe, on some days.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves specifically ?
jurov: mircea you refused several times to publish the cumulative cover
jurov: so that it would be clear to everyone how much it is
jurov: that's all
ThickAsThieves: well i havent thought much on recently, but you could publish what it actually is
ThickAsThieves: or, not cap it
mircea_popescu: but it was clear to everyone that 2.9x times previous cover would be a top limit i would imagine
mike_c: the contract was understood by whoever sold contracts above the limit :)
ThickAsThieves: you imagined wrong, you said as much already
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so i don't cap it. you come to make a contract, have to deposit infinity btc.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: we can still go further with it how bout I send you more btc rite nao?
jurov: or 2.9*2.9*previous, or whatever
mike_c: so probably half the participants understood
mircea_popescu: mike_c well sure.
ThickAsThieves: is this different that not capping options?
mircea_popescu: options are settled in btc. this is not settled in hashes.
mircea_popescu: if there existed a way to physically deliver we wouldn't have this problem at all.
mircea_popescu: but there's no way to meter hash.
ThickAsThieves: hashes represent the USD rate
ThickAsThieves: not the settlement
ThickAsThieves: in my comparison
mircea_popescu: you'll have to formalise that.
mircea_popescu: x.idiff is hash->btc ; o.usd is usd->btc
nubbins`: thestringpuller: sure, whatever works for you
thestringpuller: how would physical delivery keep you from having to deliver infinite usd?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller because you could sell 1trn hashes per contract or somesuch.
kakobrekla: but infinite usd is not impossible
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla it is nao, since you booted bernanke
mike_c: i don't see the problem. 350 contracts sold over the last 30 days by someone who didn't understand. so they lost .1 btc and now they understand.
kakobrekla: cant be booted if one doesnt join in the first place
mike_c: everyone else understood, and didn't trade.
thestringpuller: infinity is not finite, it's unreachable someone might as well physically deliver you a printer
ThickAsThieves: the "problem" is not a problem in that sense
thestringpuller: or a fed print shop
BingoBoingo: Maybe being Satoshi was Bernake's way of hating his day job
ThickAsThieves: it is more an issue of optimizing the product
ThickAsThieves: to increase usage
mircea_popescu: mike_c i guess so. was it actually one party doing it ?
ThickAsThieves: assuming the goal is for action to occur on mpex
mike_c: there were only a few bids up above the cap. the seller was likely probably one person :)
ThickAsThieves: there's certainly more market to be had
ThickAsThieves: look at bitbets
ThickAsThieves: and these deprived schemes
ThickAsThieves: B.SELL etc
ThickAsThieves: so you can cling to the current design and blame the user
ThickAsThieves: or you can accept that you do have power over the design
ThickAsThieves: and seize teh day
mircea_popescu: power over the design i have, but over reality i do not.
ThickAsThieves: so allow ability for writer to publisj the cap
ThickAsThieves: jurov solved this issue long ago
mike_c: so the suggestion is contracts with different caps?
ThickAsThieves: you could even have multiple listings, like options
ThickAsThieves: all with different caps
mircea_popescu: contracts with different caps are different contracts.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine that could be one of the happiest Bitcoins you could ever part with
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you guessed it sister :D
benkay: a man once spoke to me about explicit collateralization of options.
benkay: i informed him it'd make for a downright wacky marketplace.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I know the benkay and bitcoinpete readings of the emails are that the SEC will crash into you. I like to think that decoding your last email has been assigned to a few committees and all of the summer interns
ThickAsThieves: i wonder how badly they even want to bother with sorting you out
benkay: if he straight up ignored the girl she'd probably go bonkers
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Well if they are reading the logs, I would be happy to sort them out with the GPG and registering with the WoT
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37704 @ 0.00080693 = 30.4245 BTC [-] {3}
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: that's hilarious. :-) Thank you for sharing with us your SEC interaction; I hope you continue to do so. For what it's worth, I am being sincere.
mike_c: ;;calc e ** (log(2.9)/6)
gribble: 1.19417048496
mike_c: if difficulty increases stay this low, cap won't be a problem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00080665 = 19.8436 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.054 = 0.108 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38750 @ 0.00081406 = 31.5448 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.05497645 = 0.9346 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610012 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
ozbot: Britain reveals new 12-sided pound coin - Business - CBC News
nubbins`: harsh portrait
mike_c: !t h mine
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
mike_c: !t h b.mine
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05250001 / 0.0542931 / 0.05710000 (152 shares, 8.25255158 BTC), 7D: 0.03960000 / 0.04840514 / 0.06902300 (1585 shares, 76.72214039 BTC), 30D: 0.03960000 / 0.05003398 / 0.06902300 (6430 shares, 321.71848642 BTC)
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic cheers
kakobrekla: cog thread is more fun
kakobrekla: fuckin gold with cherry on top
BingoBoingo: Cog is a little special
kakobrekla: so this ltc pump is driven by knc making scrypt asic
kakobrekla: or am i missing something
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05499998 = 0.33 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06610004 = 0.1322 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Hard to tell, last night someone blamed the LTC rally on China
asciilifeform: possible that ltc market has become 'lightweight' enough to simply 'throw'
asciilifeform: or whatever the technical term for this is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.11950724 = 1.1951 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo china is this beloved myth
mircea_popescu: like you know, messianic
BingoBoingo: Well, for most people most things are either myth or magic
BingoBoingo: One can spend all day imagine brains with an MRI tube without having the slightest idea about what Magnetic Resonance is.
mircea_popescu: "I don't get it. Why do you insist on making everyone think MPOE-PR is not MP? Why deceive your customers with something so trivial to figure out?
mircea_popescu: That's just weird."
ThickAsThieves: best evidence i have is "last I heard from a chinese parent in my kids chinese class (which was maybe a few months back) in that in China EVERYONE was into litecoin."
mircea_popescu: i should take a bet for when this mpoe-pr = mp thing finally dies.
BCB: ballsy
ThickAsThieves: 'New Slang For Unconfirmed Transactions? Dorians'
sheldonthomas: ThickAsThieves awesome
nubbins`: man i've got this fuckin dorian stuck for days now
BingoBoingo: Shit might be useful if people announced things were happening today on a timeline with greater advanced notice than a single day
BCB: who runs this channel
nubbins`: gribble ;p
ThickAsThieves: the community
BCB: what's MP's handel
BCB: nick
nubbins`: guess
BCB: mircea_popescu: ballsy
nubbins`: you owe be a beer
BingoBoingo: BCB: Generally kakobrekla runs the channel MP's handle is...
mircea_popescu: my handle is a bar moustache
BCB: mircea_popescu: you command of the english language is impressive
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves haha splendid.
ThickAsThieves: "Today, however, founder Tim Sweeney is announcing a new business model: Epic will charge just $19 a month, and 5 percent of a game developer's gross revenue, for access to the complete Unreal Engine set of tools and even its source code."
mircea_popescu: BCB As the wolly-haired Melanasians of Papua, New Guinea once said, (Makes a series of clicking and popping sounds)
ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
nubbins`: does it usually take a while for initial bets to appear?
ThickAsThieves: yeah sometimes
nubbins`: i sent one along immediately after submitting the bet
nubbins`: ah, k
nubbins`: maybe waiting for confirms
mircea_popescu: yeah a block or so.
nubbins`: right-o
nubbins`: figured i'd sweeten the pot a bit
BingoBoingo: I still can't believe Illinois did not invite me to their hearing on Virtual currencies as an honored distinguished guest, and that news of it happening didn't even reach me until it is two hours too late to start driving and make it on time.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo clearly they're stonewalling you
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299998 = 0.365 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Clearly.
nubbins`: [14:50:31] <Inkata> can anyone point me to a modern way to sign contracts? real-life contracts with crypto?
nubbins`: surely there's an article written on this, anyone got a title handy??
mircea_popescu: didn't bingo write something about that ?
BingoBoingo: Eh, Maybe I'll find out about Missouri's version of this thing in time. Jefferson city is a more pleasant drive than Springfield anyways
BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record GPG
gribble: PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: <>; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: <>; Contact and Credentials | Bingo Blog: <>
mircea_popescu: nubbins` but otherwise you can just you know... show him a mpex contract
asciilifeform: depends on what you mean by 'real life contracts'
mircea_popescu: three years later they're still the standard in practice
BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record digital signatures
gribble: Chapter 1B-26.003, Florida Administrative Code - Statutes, Rules ...: <>; ELECTRONIC RECORDS; ELECTRONIC SIGNATURES - Legal ...: <>; electronic signature « Adobe EchoSign - Adobe Blogs: <>
asciilifeform: if your local princeling believes pgp to be the work of satan
asciilifeform: then you're stuck with strictly reputation-based contract
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the princeling to do with it ?
asciilifeform: in our applications, nothing at all
mircea_popescu: you can trivially print out gpg signed contracts, sign on the paper, and register them
mircea_popescu: gpg is backwards-compatible with all legal systems.
asciilifeform: sure, but in the 'microscope is backwards-compatible with hammer' sense.
mircea_popescu: not necessarily, it'd depend.
mircea_popescu: certainly ample space for that, sure.
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that pgp 'counts' in the usa
asciilifeform: but, IANAL, and not sure how settled the case law is.
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth the opinions i have re likely romanian court reaction would be that should a signature be repudiated you have about 2:3 chances to get the judge to process the pgp part of the text.
asciilifeform: 'Shall Be Delivered' (TM) has not yet played out in life, huh
mircea_popescu: not here anyway.
mircea_popescu: actual signature repudiations are rare irl
mircea_popescu: most cases are testamentary contestations
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2784 @ 0.00014332 = 0.399 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: in which case the judge'd definitely see through the pgp.
asciilifeform: arguably any case involving stolen btc could, theoretically, bake crypto-signature precedent
asciilifeform: ('he signed it, so he's a you. now gladiators.')
mircea_popescu: very theoretically.
mircea_popescu: btc will pose some very srious problems to legal systems based on caselaw, perhaps enough so to make them unworkable in practice
mircea_popescu: this, however, is a head of the hydra burried for another two decades.
asciilifeform: meatspace courts are supposed to operate on principle of 'least astonishment' (someone cough up the right term plz) ?
asciilifeform: i think it was 'stare decisis'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Generally.
novusordo: until recently, I'd never visited on a windows machine
novusordo: yesterday I did, and was quite disappointed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's valid
novusordo: comic sans blog title.
asciilifeform: people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?)
asciilifeform: i recall reading that it caused great public wankage at the time
asciilifeform: 'oh noez, wires of death'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But it took so much more electricity to electricute the first street drunk verus than the first idiot
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?
novusordo: mircea_popescu: yeah, I looked at the CSS because I thought it was a fall-back font
novusordo: nope
mircea_popescu: nope. if you have comic it'll show you you have comic
mircea_popescu: because apparently you like comic
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Ethanol is a crude anti-convulsant and is rather neuroprotective against these things.
mircea_popescu: who am i to argue.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.053601 = 0.3216 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.067 = 0.402 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: Then again the street drunk would need to be drunk to enjoy this protection
BingoBoingo: electrocuting someone in the throes of Delirium tremens wouldn't be sporting at all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 47 @ 0.08 = 3.76 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.0682 = 0.7502 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06811222 = 0.2724 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: carsam type in the lower box to talk
nubbins`: they should really note that somewhere on the page
jcpham: sexy hostmask
jcpham: carsam is sexy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00081096 = 12.2049 BTC [-]
jcpham: except for webchat
jcpham: that's icky
nubbins`: there we go
benkay: carsam - lurking or confused? ;)
ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2015
nubbins`: hm, "house bet"?
mircea_popescu: kako broke bitbet.
nubbins`: bonus for me
nubbins`: (maybe)
BCB: mircea_popescu: I want to meet you when you come to New York.
nubbins`: house bet there too
mircea_popescu: bcb that may take a while.
nubbins`: free moniez
BCB: mircea_popescu: why's that?
nubbins`: uh, wait now
asciilifeform: BCB: would you personally travel to a place where there's a cork-lined cellar waiting for you?
nubbins`: that's actually not the bet i submitted
nubbins`: i said 2014
nubbins`: bet says 2015
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is the cellar a wine cellar?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope, the other kind.
nubbins`: the fuck?
BCB: asciilifeform: cork-lined - they are actually cement
asciilifeform: 'endless war and endless underfeeding for the sake of war, slave populations toiling behind barbed wire, women dragged shrieking to the block, cork-lined cellars where the executioner blows your brains out from behind. So it appears that amputation of the soul isn't just a simple surgical job, like having your appendix out. The wound has a tendency to go septic.' (orwell's 'notes on the way')
kakobrekla: nubbins` it seems bet was altered by the mods
nubbins`: but i don't want that bet
kakobrekla: ha, who broke it now!
kakobrekla: but in all seriousness, ring mp
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: vs -- year changed from 2014 to 2015, what gives!
BCB: mircea_popescu: SEC will fly you on their private jet
mircea_popescu: nubbins` uh
asciilifeform: 'latvia airlines' ? (or was it poland?)
mircea_popescu: BCB well cause i don't intend to visit the us till they dissolve the homeland security crap and put the people responsible on trial.
BCB: mircea_popescu: I don't think you'll have a choice in the matter.
Duffer1: lmao reminds me of some of the reddit comments about the trilema article
asciilifeform: the trial is about as likely as mr. putin personally hand-feeding preet bharara to bear
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sucks for the us.
BCB: asciilifeform: they don't need a trial. Just and indictment
asciilifeform: (we don't even know if he leases the bear, or keeps it on retainer, or it lives in his bed)
mircea_popescu: BCB well so then how would we meed in this counterfactual future you propose ?
nubbins`: do mods often change bet conditions after money has been sent in?
nubbins`: or am i just lucky :D
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no.
mircea_popescu: you're just lucky.
BCB: mircea_popescu: I'd be standing in the crowd during your perp walk
Duffer1: more americans thoroughly unaware of their complete irrelevance
mircea_popescu: that works.
chetty: oct 2015 - thats more than 1 year ...
BCB: mircea_popescu: I'll have a pink carnation in my lapel
mircea_popescu: i;kk be sure to look
kakobrekla: i didnt know we support bets that long lel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 120 @ 0.00598635 = 0.7184 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: sorry guise D;
Duffer1: what have you done?
nubbins`: created a time paradox
nubbins`: i just asked google what time it is and it says "yesternow"
nubbins`: i thought that was just the name of a miles davis song D:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30121 @ 0.00081495 = 24.5471 BTC [+]
artifexd: Is it irony that #netsec was hacked?
mircea_popescu: it was ?
artifexd: Try and join it
mircea_popescu: nubbins` fixt.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: tyvm!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00081541 = 26.2154 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: "I heard that Leah McGrath Goodman is writing an article that proves that "Mircea Popescu" is in fact Erik Voorhees."
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: are there any other OOP rags looking to make a comeback?
jborkl: mircea does not look good in red
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Sauce?
ozbot: AbsoluteZero2 comments on MP was approached by the SEC about Bitcoin exchanges; handled it very prof
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7408 @ 0.00081565 = 6.0423 BTC [+]
dexX7: someone here from add the option to add a file hash/signature or whatever
dexX7: wow.. some people can turn everything into fud: "If you have ownership of BTC-denominated securities such as those traded on Havelock or MPEx (such as NEOBEE, S.DICE, S.MPOE, etc.) now would be a good time to talk to a lawyer."
kakobrekla: im good, bbet isnt mentioned
asciilifeform: i'm already signed up to be gassed at nsa, sec will have to wait in line.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` good one
dexX7: "Why is Havelock Investments in the SEC's crosshairs? I made an account with them, but never bought anything. Should I be worried?" "Can you get in trouble for just a few mBTC?" ...
dexX7: :D
dexX7: yup
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo fuckwit doesn't name names.
mircea_popescu: people need to grow up already.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 330 @ 0.00401153 = 1.3238 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: maybe. too much hassle so far, and who'd teach
asciilifeform: quite a few of us here could probably teach.
asciilifeform: better question - who'd learn.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, if you need a trained Librarian.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform girls only, under 30, childless.
BingoBoingo: Ah, isn't that kind of the operation you are running atm?
mircea_popescu: allegedly.
asciilifeform: grls have this thing that they do, where they pretend to make you teach them maths, but they just pulsate
mircea_popescu: vagostabyl ?
asciilifeform: people teaching everything from number theory to marksmanship complain about this.
BingoBoingo: I've always wondered why more marksmanship classes aren't taught with a mirrored target
asciilifeform: people have said to me that my teaching anything would qualify as cruel and unusual punishment
mircea_popescu: This is actually a highly revealing exchange.
mircea_popescu: A revealing exchange about an exchange that isn't revealing?
asciilifeform: so perhaps i'll teach the penal battalion.
mircea_popescu: ahgagaga reddit delivers
mircea_popescu: well done dexX7
dexX7: hehe yw
mircea_popescu: "At least MP is an asshole equally to everyone, there is some amount of credibility in that."
mircea_popescu: i been sayin'...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cheap led vga projectors are common now, i imagine very soon you'll be able to project your face on the target at your local target lane.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was all about penile projection
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm kind of wondering why it isn't standard already. One's own face ought to offer better anatomical context at the range than those circles
asciilifeform: afaik nothing stops you from printing a self portrait and using that today.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Getting the scale right, etc
mircea_popescu: "Based on the toxic and self righteous writing style, i'm pretty sure it's him. He would never admit it though, as the account has always made fun of anyone calling it a man."
mircea_popescu: hei guise, what the fuck does that toxic mean ?
BingoBoingo: "They were asking for voluntary cooperation. All he had to say was "no thank you." You can bet if they had any legal or authoritative standing they wouldn't be asking they'd be taking/demanding."
praeconium: Good evening, where do You get historical prices of various coins?
mircea_popescu: praeconium maybe ?
mircea_popescu: at least for bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53756 @ 0.00081523 = 43.8235 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "Subject: These users are now making more money in 1 hour than in their 9-5 dead-end job" "What could you do with $106 an hour?" << my spambox rules.
benkay: BingoBoingo: class is always in session in -assets.
praeconium: mircea_popescu: thanks.
praeconium: Do You trade other coins? I know I am not in right channel..
mircea_popescu: i bought a little atc
mircea_popescu: but not really no.
praeconium: Is there a channel where people trading on quantitative models talk?
BingoBoingo: benkay: Sure, but for some a physical campus with ammenities like horsehair robes and doors locked from the outside can provide motivation
mircea_popescu: praeconium maybe #mtgox ?
jborkl: it is closed
mircea_popescu: i guess that didn't work out then
benkay: praeconium: try ##econometrics
dexX7: praeconium: ##econometrics seems to be the most "professional" one re: investments and bitcoin, about bitcoin trading talk there is #bitcoin-pricetalk + #bitcoinmarkets
benkay: bit trolly from time to time, but hey it's irc
dexX7: it's ##mtgox-chat
jborkl: that is closed and now is mtgox-talk
jcpham: people still talking about mtgox?
jcpham: is that a thing still
jborkl: no
mircea_popescu: why not just mtgox-cheat and be done with it
jborkl: mtgox-troll would be the best
praeconium: Thanks guys, I already got goxed so that was enough for now :)
mircea_popescu: praeconium kinda my point.
mircea_popescu: you're too early to trade on quantitative models.
praeconium: I am mainly interested to see how they go about acquiring hist and realtime data since there is so much variety.
praeconium: I am not really a quant, I know some basics and have knowledge of finance.. not so complex, tbh
jborkl: rtbtc was good, but the serviced gox and bitstamp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.06694 = 1.0041 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: praeconium there was a guy by the name of herbi, doingsimilar things
mircea_popescu: but it's early yet, basically
praeconium: I used rtbtc, but they used mtgox API
jborkl: yeah, not any use right now
praeconium: mircea_popescu: but don't You think that many new ones will trade with similar patterns to old ones upon introduction or change of diffculty etc?
jborkl: btc-e has metatrader - I have not used it though
dexX7: there is a company that offers a quantitative model about btc (if that's the correct wording).. let me see, if i can find it
BingoBoingo: praeconium: Your best bet may be making #bitcoinquant then lurking here and directing interested people to your channels
praeconium: mike_c: thanks.
mircea_popescu: roughly speaking, the risk of the exchange goxing you is high enough that your quant profits are irrelevant
mircea_popescu: even should you get a model right.
mircea_popescu: which you won't likely, because it's a lot harder to predict turbulent flow than any one other thing
praeconium: Quant != high frequency
mircea_popescu: i am aware.
ozbot: Bitcoin Quant Modeling
nubbins`: you just need to build vestigial fly wingstubs into your model to account for turbulence
mircea_popescu: that said, more effort poured into that can't hurt anything
mircea_popescu: nubbins` note that they have sequenced the human genome, but haven't figured out the winglets.
praeconium: Random Walk is there, I don't look into getting model right :) I just want to implement my ideas.
mircea_popescu: "we could if we wanted to", obviously.
praeconium: Thanks dexX7
praeconium: Bingo, I am really a bit more into talking with existing crowd.. :) but nice idea.
praeconium: mircea_popescu: what do You think of indexing alts?
mircea_popescu: not ure what you mean by that ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8936 @ 0.000816 = 7.2918 BTC [+]
praeconium: On hybrid cap+difficulty models
mircea_popescu: afaik no serious work has been done on that so far at all.
mircea_popescu: i'd read it.
praeconium: Like FTSE100
praeconium: But mixing difficulty with capitalization
asciilifeform: 'Aerodynamicist Theodore von Kármán died and went to heaven. In his registration packet was a bright orange ticket. Said Saint Peter, "You may get in line to ask God Himself one question." von Kármán ran to join the far end of the orange ticket queue. It was a long line, a *very* long line. Eons passed by and, sure enough, eventually in the distance he espied a giant glowing throne. More eons passed by
asciilifeform: and, finally, his moment arrived! von Kármán surrendered his orange ticket, took a deep breath, and said, "God, explain turbulence." Theodore von Kármán spent the rest of eternity burning in Hell.'
asciilifeform: mr. k ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 797 @ 0.00393491 = 3.1361 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00081206 = 56.763 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 130 @ 0.00388566 = 0.5051 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00385003 = 0.462 BTC [-] {5}
Shakespeare: soundtrack to that mark pic is Under Pressur
Shakespeare: the whip covering his butcrack makes it look odd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10619 @ 0.00080651 = 8.5643 BTC [-]
Shakespeare: "The participants could then each do a standard algorithm to generate consistent state. This might seem like a fantasy, but Byzantine algorithms like Bitcoin [Andreesen 2014] and Namecoin show that such systems are possible today."
ozbot: (bIockchain) on Twitter
mircea_popescu: what bullshit is this quoting "andreesen"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00013754 = 0.2063 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: the name is satoshi. who is this andressen
dexX7: i'm still wondering, if jimmothy is on mpex' payroll
mircea_popescu: maybe he's really mp ?
dexX7: maybe he is.
Shakespeare: is mp really mp?
dexX7: i sent him a bait some weeks ago, but he didn't take it
BingoBoingo: Maybe jimmothy is Thermos, or nefario?
mircea_popescu: Shakespeare on his better days.
mircea_popescu: or maybe he's just a random dork with no better entertainment options.
mircea_popescu: (last line in response to BingoBoingos comment, ftr)
BingoBoingo: Well, it is always important to point out this is the record
benkay: BingoBoingo is actually tiberiusxiv
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2208 @ 0.00080691 = 1.7817 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i thought tiberius was a girl.
BingoBoingo: benkay: What was his deal anyways. That's like the fifth person I've been accused of being this week.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.60009616 = 9.6015 BTC [-] {8}
benkay: tiberius a girl?
benkay: hm
benkay: you'd probably know better than i.
benkay: BingoBoingo: just the best troll this channel has ever seen.
joecool: that would be luke imo
benkay: Luke-Jr?
joecool: yes
benkay: he's no troll - 100% authentic!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44000 @ 0.00080698 = 35.5071 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00384636 = 0.1154 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: let's move on :
Shakespeare: where's her risk-free sign?
mircea_popescu: at.... home ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3392 @ 0.00080707 = 2.7376 BTC [+]
dexX7: i give luke much credit. he may be a troll (it's only what i heard several times), but his pool is remarkable for the different transaction policies and the only one to push non-standard stuff..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00380279 = 0.9507 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 758 @ 0.00379303 = 2.8751 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00375999 = 0.376 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8258 @ 0.00081289 = 6.7128 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: dexX7 he did all sorts of scammy shit
moiety: mew all
dexX7: hi
mircea_popescu: hi kitten
moiety: mircea_popescu: feck... you're not counting weird links and imgurs in this are you?!
mircea_popescu: overstock is being fucked, who knew.
ninjashogun: (you might have seen it on hackernews)
benderp: nonsense ninjashogun. a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.
moiety: "... has since opened TRG..." excellent! :/
ninjashogun: hi, benderp
benderp: mircea_popescu: more credence accrues every day to the notion that consumer organizations accepting bitcoin only do so as they begin to circle the drain.
moiety: lolol well put benderp - exemplified in here often :P
mircea_popescu: benderp 2005 article mind.
ninjashogun: benderp - suppose you removed everyone from the world who is not "competent". You would be left with nobody making your clothes, producing your food, building your highways, collecting your taxes, installing your Internet connection, or keeping any of the factories, buildings, schools, infrastructure, going.
ninjashogun: Most American teachers are "incompetent". Yet America has a near 100.00% literacy rate.
ninjashogun: Do not discount incompetent people.
moiety: thats ridiculous
moiety: absolutely ridiculous
benderp: fungible labor is fungible.
mircea_popescu: Dollar Shave Club @DollarShaveClub · 1h
mircea_popescu: Let's wipe out Colon Cancer. Mike, our CEO, is getting a colonoscopy & streaming it live. WATCH RIGHT NOW. #DSColon
ninjashogun: No, it's not ridiculous. By any definition of "competent" for which benderp's statement holds true (" a vanishingly thin slice of everyone is competent, and everyone else is constantly justifying their incompetence to themselves and each other.") it is absolutely true.
mircea_popescu: i would say this is the definitive example.
moiety: people can be competent at producing food, building things... all the things you said ninjashogun
mircea_popescu: dorks have their own shortener to paste their links about how a spurious ceo is ending cancer by shoving things up his butt live on cam.
mircea_popescu: it just doesn't go any further.
ninjashogun: no they can't. You just said only a vanishingly thin percentage of "everyone" is competent.
dexX7: workers = incompetent sounds like a rude prejudice
benderp: workers = fungible
moiety: prexactly dexX7
benderp: ninjashogun: all the reading in the world, and look at the shitshow that's resulted.
benderp: i blame the incompetent teachers.
moiety: eww mircea_popescu no one wants to see that much of their or anyone else's boss
moiety: ninjashogun: imo, you get people competent and incompetent in every field. competence is not something that comes with status. There are plenty of incompetent management in the world
ninjashogun: I was just responding to benderp's statement
moiety: and im responding to yours
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, nice article just a slight comment "(unfortunately the Australian equivalent of the US SEC has been uniquely unhelpful in this matter so far).". Patrick Harnett appears to have a +64 number which would make him NZ :)
moiety: that;s going to happen when you hit enter in here
ninjashogun: moiety - fair enough. I should have been clear that I was being satirical, and not using my own definition of competent. I think basically 100% of people are competent at what they do.
mircea_popescu: Perlboy it's a complicated matter. nz people weren't nearly as obnoxious, but anyway.
moiety: please tell me that was also sarcasm ninjashogun
ninjashogun: I thnk a bunch of companies "suck" and are "idiots". I hate paypal and wish it would die. But I don't actually SAY that, or actually SAY they're incompetent.
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, yeah kiwi's are a bit more open
Perlboy: you were talking to asic?
ninjashogun: I'm not Icahn, there to criticize a $74B company (eBay) when he couldn't run a company any better.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not going to comment on that particular wrinkle further.
benderp: no, you're a budding Jobs, right ninjashogun?
ninjashogun: benderp - maybe a few years ago I would have said that ;-)
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, ok, nice article though i'm glad there's someone like you able to push back
moiety: ;; lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
Perlboy: if i did such things in australia i'd start waiting for the black helicopters
ninjashogun: moiety - are there that many incompetent managers in the world though? Don't nearly all of them produce hte basic results they're there to do on some level?
Perlboy: ninjashogun, 99% of managers are a case of shit floating.
moiety: ninjashogun: yes. go work in a hospital or government agency. competence in your definition = arselicking and shagging someone higher up
mircea_popescu: people generally overrepresent the importance and power of corrupt government.
benderp: ah davout thou art a scholar
ninjashogun: Perlboy - you say that, but the 'shit' skils that let them 'float' are vitally important to the companies they're at. They do more for the mission than most lines of code that are written at most organizations.
davout: benderp: yo, brb, zipping some leonard cohen for mircea_popescu
ninjashogun: moiety - I've worked at government agencies. My God! The inefficiency. It was horrendous.
mike_c: ninjashogun you should expound on this topic at length on bitcointalk.
moiety: ninjashogun: yup 100% competent huh
ninjashogun: mike_c: I hope you're kidding?
mircea_popescu: davout are you trying to get me in trouble with the law ?
davout: haha
Perlboy: ninjashogun, no they are typically promoted either a) Because they stroked egos and didn't create any issues [or covered them up to people who would be concerned] or b) Were found to be incompetent but were stuck in the organisation so were promoted to a position where they couldn't fuck things up
moiety: i totally agree with mike_c i think it would be a really interesting good thread ninjashogun go for it
moiety: and please link us
ninjashogun: Very funny moiety. :)
mircea_popescu: can't tell if kitteh is trolling or youthful.
ninjashogun: Look, I know that on some level what you say make sense. For example, on some level Windows is completely broken in every single conceivable way and has had the opposite of architects working on it for the past thirty years.
moiety: ;P
benderp: and yet ninjashogun those are the 'architects' out there in the wild, delivering value by your standards.
ninjashogun: But on the other hand, millions of people use Windows for hours every day, and have used it to run most aspects of the economy.
ninjashogun: Exactly!
ninjashogun: Yes, exactly my point benderp.
benderp: what was it asciilifeform was going on about?
moiety: jesus you are seriously gonna use windows as an example here?
benderp: der fuhrershitcake?
ninjashogun: That WITHOUT sarcasm, in fact those architects (the totally incompetent windows ones) have built immense value over hte past thirty years.
benderp: it tastes great!
ninjashogun: moiety I think windows is a fair example because everyone here knows hte obvious ways in which it sucks :)
Perlboy: ninjashogun, true, but then it's been rewritten what, 4 times now (3.11, 95, XP, 8)?
moiety: asciilifeform! i used gribbles lasers! they were required
ninjashogun: moiety - windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders.
Perlboy: so it's the age old opportunity cost thing
davout: ninjashogun: you may be confusing value with technical debt
Perlboy: hack it together and we'll have to rewrite every X years
Perlboy: or do it right and evolve
asciilifeform: windows doesn't really have any architectural defenders << you'd be surprised.
moiety: i think its time to break out the alcohol or sanity pills or something
Perlboy: unfortunately microsoft isn't motivated to do something forever
asciilifeform: they include people who don't even work for ms
Perlboy: otherwise their upgrade would be less expensive (ie. apple mac osx :))
ninjashogun: davout - I don't think it's technical debt if it never needs to be fixed. Windows was never refactored onto a rock-hard Unix base with proven open technology stacks. Nor will it ever be. You can't call it debt if you're never going to do it.
asciilifeform: like ceo of 'green hills software' (favoured son contractor who sells a proprietary embedded os for military hardware)
asciilifeform: and the Official Party Line of usg is... wait for it...
ninjashogun: Another example is ATM's that run Windows. On some level that is such an obvious display of incompetence that it should make most people here shiver.
davout: ninjashogun: just because you're never going to repay it doesn't change the nature of a debt, it's still a debt
asciilifeform: that winblows is 'certified secure' because it has fine-grained access permissions.
ninjashogun: Most people, that is, except for the millions of people using them to withdraw money.
Perlboy: umm, so, there's nothing wrong with windows being used for all banking applications
ninjashogun: davout - that's silly :) The term "technical debt" is an analogy, i.e. you get features now but at a commitment of future time. If that future time is not a real commitment, then there is no actual debt involved.
Perlboy: just make sure you price in a few hundred firewalls
moiety: ninjashogun, dear, when you begin by talking about incompetence of managers and people that make food... you cannot really switch to a whole company that is comprised of millions of them. #consistency
ninjashogun: davout - just like, if you make a bracelet out of pyrite, you do not have the "debt" of whatever it would take to re-make in Gold. You just have a pyrite bracelet.
Perlboy: which fwiw you'd have to have anyway regardless of os
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hahaha what
davout: ninjashogun: sounds like a point
ninjashogun: davout - on the other hand if your prototype is pyrite and you're prototyping a gold bracelet (the way many startups prototype an MVP then intend to build scallability) then it can be considered a "debt".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seriously, winblows is mandatory, and that's the 'reasoning'
asciilifeform: used by usg
davout: ninjashogun: except if you're considering the expense of time required to switch useful applications to better OSes
Perlboy: Yeah, i know at least one bank that has moved to 100% Windows.
ninjashogun: davout - that is true. I think Microsoft isn't selling that migration path though :)
ninjashogun: Perlboy - what do you mean "100%"?
Perlboy: and they just replaced their core banking with windows+mssql end to end
Perlboy: ninjashogun, every system, windows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very lol.
ninjashogun: Perlboy, their servers?
ninjashogun: Perlboy, their web page?
Perlboy: ninjashogun, all of it.
davout: ninjashogun: it can be debt in the sense that they have to keep backwards compatibility up to some level
ninjashogun: Perlboy, their safes?
moiety: ninjashogun: 100%
moiety: even i get what he means
Perlboy: ninjashogun, all of it. :)
davout: ninjashogun: for the rest there's mastercard
moiety: lololol
ninjashogun: davout - that is a fairer example. Their backwards compatibility is a 'debt' because they are actually taking it on as a commitment. It's clearly a slightly lower debt than they would have if they had a goal of creating a real operating system like Unix and BSD's
Perlboy: microsoft basically dropped their pants license wise.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
davout: ninjashogun: "improving their OS" and "creating a new solid OS" sounds like a difference in degree, not in kind
ninjashogun: davout - I don't necessarily call backwards compatibility "improving their OS". In fact, in many cases compatibility and objective improvement are at odds.
davout: ninjashogun: precisely because of tech debt
ninjashogun: davout - yes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00080757 = 40.9438 BTC [-] {3}
ninjashogun: davout - but you can't just call it debt if they're not going to do it. For example, the fact that Python 3 isn't source code compatible with Python 2 isn't technical debt that they're postponing. It's a design decision.
moiety: youre definately the loudest ninja i have ever met!
davout: ninjashogun: no, it's defaulting on debt, which can make sense :D
ninjashogun: moiety - hey man I just posted a link :-D
moiety: the forum??
ninjashogun: No, to an article. I didn't comment on it.
moiety: ok? i did see you linked that
mircea_popescu: (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...)
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, that is very interesting.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you can also see a lot of that in Apple computers. For example, they are supposed to be very "easy to use" (yet are expensive). But this hides the fact that a lot of people use it to run accounting software that's also dumbed down to their level, and a load of similar extra-expensive things that let them manage their lifestyle. It's becaues they make enough money to buy Macs and to buy expensive dumbed-do
ninjashogun: wn software - but not enough to hire full accountants and managers to do the same work!
ninjashogun: if you look at mac software ,a lot of it is aimed at letting people do things that ordinarily you would hire a professional for, and not at a professsional level.
benderp: everyone i know who can afford a macintosh pays an accountant if they're not on salary, ninjashogun.
benderp: what are these professional things the macintosh consumer software enables?
ninjashogun: benderp - it may have been a bad example. I mean if you survey the software that's specifically targeted at Mac users.
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than a frilly Victorian one...) /// Nonsense.
moiety: ninjashogun: ok ok i clicked and i give up on any article that begins: "have you ever felt like......"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32647 @ 0.00081309 = 26.5449 BTC [+] {2}
benderp: can you provide an acceptable example?
ThickAsThieves: it happened because visual design became a blue collar job
ninjashogun: Yes, let me look.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves do tell ?
mircea_popescu: in the 20s ?!
ThickAsThieves: no one was thinking about dusting
deadweasel: moiety: i think that's a good rule
ThickAsThieves: oh i thought that was you talking
asciilifeform: afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line bash script on an ordinary computer
ThickAsThieves: it's quote from the 20s?
mircea_popescu: yes, it was me talking about the 20s.
ThickAsThieves: or just referring to 20s style
mircea_popescu: well yes.
ThickAsThieves: simplicity is in vogue now too
ninjashogun: the top one is a good example. Dreamweaver.
ninjashogun: Who uses dreamweaver?
ninjashogun: And why?
mircea_popescu: true true, not very well introduced.
benderp: <asciilifeform> afaik the only software today 'specifically targeted at mac
benderp: users' is the nickel-and-dime chumpatron where these folks pay
benderp: $20/each for a hundred little gui utilities that'd be a 1-line
benderp: bash script on an ordinary computer
ozbot: Main/The Roaring Twenties - Television Tropes & Idioms
mircea_popescu: benderp omfg you derp you
ThickAsThieves: if anything, it's certainly cheaper to make simple stuff
benderp: yeah derpin hard
ThickAsThieves: rather than frilly
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that is EXACTLY my point. Exactly that.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that they pay EXTRA but becuase they're not actually having someone competent do it.
ThickAsThieves: mostly the expense comes into play when they choose expensive smooth surfaces
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, they pay extra for a GUI, instead of enough for someone to do it properly.
ThickAsThieves: but hey if they scratch, that makes them consumable!
asciilifeform: and then there are the poor schmucks who just want a portable posix box that mostly works.
asciilifeform measures dust thickness on apple laptop
moiety: so mircea_popescu, ThickAsTheives, can we conclude modern day styling is getting more minimalistic and less decorative because people are lazy/no servants/no time?
mircea_popescu: moiety i would say in present day considerations shoving the items is more of a concern
ThickAsThieves: i wont say it has much to do with servants
mircea_popescu: as the dollar shave "ceo" clearly illustrates
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I missed your dollar shave example, what was it?
ThickAsThieves: i'd add to the list too
moiety nods
ThickAsThieves: for example, where do you find people to make intricate wood carvings?
mircea_popescu: even the cars look increasingly more like they came out of a vulva.
ThickAsThieves: mass production is a huge influence
ninjashogun: There is actually one take-away from the above insights that mircea_popescu 's quote led to here.
moiety: even more of a side note -- i think it's a real shame loosing the individuality and decorativeness of design :( cars is a good example!
deadweasel: my Vulva is diesel 240
mircea_popescu: but they had mass production for a century
mircea_popescu: moiety yeah now everyone makes porsches, from bmw to mercedes.
ninjashogun: It seems for the bitcoin device that you guys were building (asciilifeform) the real money is in making it SO dumb that the user doesn't have to understand how bitcoin, signing, or a wallet works.
ThickAsThieves: right but havent things become more about cutting costs as time passes?
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: who said i was involved in making a bitcoin-related anything?
ThickAsThieves: they are literally cutting the edges
ninjashogun: so if you could make it so dumb that the user just thinks of it "as a wallet" with "bitcoins in it" and takes it out to spend from it.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves actually it became feasible to extrude complex conical surfaces.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I thought that the signing thing was a natural step away from an offline wallet?
moiety: mircea_popescu: and they are so ugly. what ever happened to aston and jaguar
mircea_popescu: better cnc etc
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i think you have the wrong address. that'd be 'trezor' et al.
ThickAsThieves: 3d printing may bring a psuedo-rennaisance
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, wouldn't your embedded device be used at some point as an offline wallet that you can connect?
ThickAsThieves: but i doubt it
moiety: ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at a trinket level?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay. I was talking about that USB thing that escrows your private key. I know you only said it was about private keys - but most users don't know what that is.
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i might theoretically, at some point, make something that fits this description, but the current product has nothing to do with bitcoin or wallets
ThickAsThieves: well theyll get bigger
ThickAsThieves: look at the german car thing in the news today
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay.
ozbot: The Germans Have Figured Out How to 3-D Print Cars | Autopia |
moiety: thanks ThickAsThieves
ThickAsThieves: i dunno how the fuck they can that a car
ThickAsThieves: but at least it's a hull
daybyter: Carrera cars? ^^
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.
moiety: jesus christ, where do you even sit
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: this is catastrophically misguided.
ThickAsThieves: in the vulva
moiety: LOL
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build a shiny gui on a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.
ThickAsThieves: old school art deco did offer many intricate work too yknow
benderp: ninjashogun: if you can't be bothered to respond to private conversations that you start, I don't see why I should arse myself to respond to your PMs.
moiety: lol "inspired by a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles
thestringpuller: asciilifeform do you believe there is a hardware hole in most mobile devices?
ThickAsThieves: i always thought car design moved much too slowly
thestringpuller: like for rng?
moiety: bahaha and *theres* the connection!
ThickAsThieves: i dont understand why more concept cars arent produced
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots.
moiety: remember the alfa concept they just produced one of for the boss
ThickAsThieves: serving idiots will age you
benderp: mo users, mo problems.
asciilifeform: fundamentally different problems. ones which only the folks with the cattle prods are properly equipped to handle.
ThickAsThieves: idiots also suck all the joy out of a task
benderp: asciilifeform: link the goats again!
asciilifeform: benderp: ?
benderp: with the bells
ninjashogun: benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just a bit delayed. I'm doing a few different things.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, link to "see mp's piece on why it is unwise to become embroiled in the making of products for idiots." ?? This is about the opposite of what I've always heard.
asciilifeform: (about 10 min. long, so you need an attention span)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.
ThickAsThieves: dafuck language are you spekaing?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so if someone were to create something idiots could (actually) use then it would be (for them) as thought only it existed. Apple often does this and practically claims competing technology doesn't even exist.
ThickAsThieves: last night a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!
ThickAsThieves: i was like, dont you buy stuff online all the time?
ThickAsThieves: yeah but can i just buy them with PayPal?
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: 'Honest toil not so much, but honest cunning aplenty in this fabled subsection of the population, the offensively stupid poor. The costs of the strategic mistake of dealing with them are huge. Up until recently it was practically impossible to become embroiled into any sort of dealing with the subgroup, their ownership being strictly assumed and their lives strictly subsumed by the corporations com
asciilifeform: petent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whatever they’re called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, they’ve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, what did you say?
asciilifeform: obstruct vision, living arrangements all thought through and everything.' (mp's
mircea_popescu: paypal is not a website, and the government is not some twerps.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, thank you for that link. I actually completely agree with it.
ThickAsThieves: i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need a wallet anyway
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I guess I had a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.
ThickAsThieves: bitcoin really isnt for the masses
ThickAsThieves: i told her to buy FIG
ThickAsThieves: i also told them not to do anything i said
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses. A wallet is an extremely close analogy with a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?
ThickAsThieves: the difference really is that transactions are final
ThickAsThieves: without an Undo, idiots cant manage
ninjashogun: But this is true with a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.
ThickAsThieves: who uses cash?
mircea_popescu: there's undo in mountain dew ?
deadweasel: do the undo
mircea_popescu: ;;google undine
gribble: Undine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Undine (novella) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Undine (alchemy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>
ninjashogun: So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?
mircea_popescu: (the first nymphlet to drink piss)
ninjashogun: I mean as an analogy for a physical wallet with cash in it.
ThickAsThieves: like i said, you are comparing the wrong thing
ThickAsThieves: common man doesnt use cash for much of note
ThickAsThieves: they use debit/credit cards
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I understand this.
ThickAsThieves: or PayPal
FabianB: in US
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, but why such a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"
FabianB: 90% cash here
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00375616 = 0.2254 BTC [-] {3}
ninjashogun: I would very humbly suggest that in the long term it might be.
ThickAsThieves: common man also cant figure out to not open exe files from their email
mircea_popescu: FabianB where's that again ? japan ?
ninjashogun: unless there is some inherent conceptual hurdle that people can't understand.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell benkay thanks for the inspiration!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deadweasel: ninjashogun, explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.
FabianB: mircea_popescu: that was a personal statement, not country statistics
deadweasel: you'll find the hurdles
ninjashogun: deadweasel - I think i have some insight on this.
FabianB: mircea_popescu: but probably true for jp, korea and china, more or less
deadweasel: stop thinking then
mircea_popescu: i use cash only too.
ThickAsThieves: as you probly think you do about most things
ninjashogun: deadweasel, the major hurdle is that people who don't do forex don't normally talk of 'buying' currency. That's the only hurdle. Specifically:
mircea_popescu: did in the us, also. never had a problem with it, contrary to what people say
ThickAsThieves: mp, but for the things you use cash for, would you ever use bitcoin instead?
ninjashogun: deadweasel, it doesn't make much sense to say "I bought $100 with my used bike." It feels wrong. But it's accurate.
FabianB: andd germany is still more cash than credit cards as well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00081557 = 11.051 BTC [+]
deadweasel: honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to a newbie?
mircea_popescu: turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves not really.
ninjashogun: deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying' a currency is that people don't think of 'buying' a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.
ThickAsThieves: in this way i think it's unwise to use normal cash wallets as the intro to noobs
mircea_popescu: the jury in my head is out on the entire topic of bitcoin-backed ccs
ninjashogun: deadweasel, so if you were to say, "I bought $100 with my bicycle" it would - as you point out - sound like incoherent ramblings. It should be written, "I SOLD my bike for $100".
ThickAsThieves: it's much more akin to your onlin banking username and password
mircea_popescu: maybe they work, fuck knows. let people try.
ThickAsThieves: except that your online banking has Undo
moiety: I'm struggling with weighing up the frustration:lulz in relation to the ignore function
ninjashogun: so as soon as people starting talking about "Buying things with bitcoin" then it's pretty obvious how it works.
deadweasel: ninjashogun, i seem to have lost you completely. but i know one thing, the last time I thought I had some insight on bitcoin I asked everyone here. turns out i was wrong.
FabianB: i sell euro if i want rmb to get around in china
moiety: well done for managing this far deadweasel
deadweasel: ditto!
ninjashogun: deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain a bitcoin to a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi
ninjashogun: tcoins (using dollars).
ThickAsThieves: this is also why i find those BigFoot bitcoin brochures so out of touch
ThickAsThieves: they make zero effort to actually initiate a new user
asciilifeform: bitcoinpete: i wish people didn't spread messianic exaggeration re: cardano. it isn't a Final Solution, just intended to be a little oasis in the desert.
ninjashogun: That would be the normal answer to the question you just stated....
deadweasel: Cardono, TM, secures your btc and burns your jews, automatically!
deadweasel: Cardano*
asciilifeform: 'throw transport down the well, so yer country can be free!' (sasha baroncohen)
ninjashogun: Normal users, for reasons we can appreciate, would then proceed to buy bitcoins if they had something they wanted to buy in bitcoins. (And only then.) This is currency working as it should.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50474 @ 0.00081576 = 41.1747 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: can anyone explain to me why clikcion on pete's link in note 5
mircea_popescu: leads one to a random trilema page ?
deadweasel: ninjashogun: the mental hurdles people put up for themselves are far higher than the small mental hurdles you have bounded to understand it.
deadweasel: it = btc
mircea_popescu: meh sorry i mean note 6 not 5
ninjashogun: deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to a newbie?
mircea_popescu: and petey i liked note 3.
deadweasel: ninjashogun: I don't
mircea_popescu: exactly what good art is.
ThickAsThieves: mp, did yo edit the url at some point?
deadweasel: i wait for them to fucking beg me to explain it
ninjashogun: deadweasel ...
ThickAsThieves: or maybe it's cuz a 301 plugin
deadweasel: ninjashogun: this is not jesus
ninjashogun: deadweasel, now you've lost me :)
ThickAsThieves: ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no, that's the beauty of it :
ThickAsThieves: as no one sells things only for bitcoin
mircea_popescu: that leads to the proper article
deadweasel: ah ty, i wish I could grep your blog
mircea_popescu: he fucked up the url somehoiw but i can't tell how.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, that's not true. Some people uses bitcoin to buy some things. if that weren't true, Tiger Direct wouldn't accept htem.
ThickAsThieves: i found the problem
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I mean I get what you're saying about investors/speculators - but it has actual users of it as currency as well.
ThickAsThieves: his link has %E2%80%8E after it
deadweasel: they don't accept them and less than 1% of their biz is btc. they let Coinbase or Paybit or whatever do it
mircea_popescu: o fuck right you are
ThickAsThieves: no ninja you dont get what i'm syaing
ThickAsThieves: yes people spend bitcoins
ninjashogun: deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things" - though to be fair ThickAsThieves probably meant to say that as a generalization, which is true.
ThickAsThieves: but they dont BUY the specifically to buy things
ThickAsThieves: they buy them to speculate
ThickAsThieves: then maybe they buy things
ThickAsThieves: there are some exceptions
benderp: the thing with the people who buy things with bitcoins, is that eventually they will run out of bitcoins.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves what about silk road and questionably legal things? Didn't people buy btc specificially for those uses?
moiety: otherwise ninjashogun people would be buying exact amounts for their purchases to get the best conversion
ThickAsThieves: for example, you can only get MPEx account with BTC
ninjashogun: moiety, why would exact amounts be the best conversion?
ninjashogun: moiety, due to the spread?
ThickAsThieves: SR is an exception, not the common motivation to buy btc
ThickAsThieves: it also doesnt exist
ninjashogun: I get that, sure.
moiety: i mean as in, what would be the point in having leftovers if you were only buying it to buy something else
mircea_popescu: sr is still a thing ?
deadweasel: darknetmarkets pop up and down on a weekly basis
mircea_popescu: not that it ever was much of a thing, but for the sake of lulz.
deadweasel: hacked, doxxed, whatever
ninjashogun: Oh....if in all the above you guys meant "you're not going to explain bitcoin Qua Investment to a newbie, and then get them to buy bitcoin" then that's probably true :). I wasn't thinking of it as an investment just then.
ThickAsThieves: right, no reason to trust in tormarkets anymore
ThickAsThieves: probly many people simply kept their contacts
ThickAsThieves: and buy direct
ninjashogun: moiety - the reason for leftovers is because you might want to buy something else as well? People generally exchange more currency than they will immediately spend, and keep the change to spend on other things.
benderp: ninjashogun: another challenge is the backup and restoration problem.
moiety: nvm
benderp: ninjashogun: the rational thing for long term btc holders is...
deadweasel: benderp: yeah, low hanging fruit, I should have started there.
benderp: to hold btc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a thing in the sense communism is 'a thing' - folks will keep trying
ninjashogun: benderp - yes, probably. Do you think an offline wallet device that just knew its own balance (and displayed it continuously), had no backup or restore functionality, would ease this portion of the hurdle?
benderp: ninjashogun: how could an offline device know its balance?
deadweasel: slightly, but only for the already technically advanced
ninjashogun: benderp, my statement was regarding backup and restoration problems.
mircea_popescu: more like in the sense nerd sex is a thing, but yeah
benderp: no but no
moiety: ok, imma just head off to get a BTC to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb
benderp: how is an offline wallet going to know its balance?
benderp: ninjashogun: ^^
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: let's work through this. how do you propose the wallet machine is to be communicated with?
asciilifeform: let me guess. dedicated piece of pc software.
benderp: over wifi!
benderp: it's sekyure, doncha no.
ninjashogun: I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and the account receives a transfer for someone, how will it get updated?
ninjashogun: from someone*
ThickAsThieves: it couldnt "know" its balance, but it could sync it
ninjashogun: I just know that conceptually an offline wallet is probably hte easiest thing to understand.
moiety: speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once tweeted about how being a nerd in japan was much better as he had talked a japanese chick into marrying him lol
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: please take the time to learn something about how btc actually works
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, so, conceptually, it would have to be "Ooops, I was wrong." until it syncs.
ThickAsThieves: it could sync by scanning a bar code
moiety wonders if he bought her with magic game cards
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. However I'm trying to approach this from the point of view of a user.
benderp: ThickAsThieves: don't encourage him.
deadweasel: moiety: black lotus for a pink lotus!
deadweasel: or yellow lotus?
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: from the point of a luser, a mercedes runs by dwarves under the hood turning a crank.
moiety: lolol!!!
ninjashogun: The issue then would be that the only conceptually accurate device hte users could think of like a physical wallet, would have to be hot all of the time.
asciilifeform: if you want to discuss a hypothetical device, you must approach from the standpoint of the builder.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, very fair statement.
deadweasel: ninjashogun: we could use toe warmers?
moiety: ninjashogun: all you need now is chip'n'pin for bitcoin and youre all set!
asciilifeform: the only reason anybody even dares to talk about 'hardware wallet' today is that he's weaseled out of the task of building the hard part
ninjashogun: what do you think of moiety's suggestion? Here is what he's talking about -
benderp: even moiety's in on the game now
asciilifeform: that'd be something like 'trezor'
ninjashogun: So in this sense the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used to this mode of money use.
asciilifeform: all this does is store keys
asciilifeform: the luser is still relying on a pc to actually crank the protocol
asciilifeform: either his own, or some charlatan's remote box
benderp: hardware wallets are actually more complex and a greater pain in the ass. users must understand transactions, how to generate one, how to sign one, and how to transmit one.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, if you moved trezor into the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using the same technology - then it would be interesting.
benderp: interesting!?
ninjashogun: then its readers would be connected to the bitcoin network instead of to a bank network.
benderp: interesting over useful?!
asciilifeform: 'atm using btc' is old hat
ninjashogun: I mean if you took Trezor and made it look like an ATM card, by shrinking it down to the same chip size. (chip and pin)
asciilifeform: what is the point of this?
asciilifeform: all you'll get is angry idiots who stuff it in an ordinary atm
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, we were discussing what it would take for everyone to understand and use it :)
asciilifeform: use it where ?!
asciilifeform: might as well make it thin and cylindrical, to stuff up arse
deadweasel: what if you get stuck in an island prison for life with your autistic friend?
deadweasel: you'll need that feature
moiety: sorry i just finished facedesking
moiety: ninjashogun: that was in no way, shape or form a serious comment. my apologies.
ozbot: Papillon (1973) - IMDb
moiety: chip'n'pin shouldnt exist for fiat ffs
benderp: .bait
benderp: .bait
benderp: .bait
asciilifeform: afaik chip & pin is still a crock of shit quite like traditional magstripe (i.e. it doesn't use crypto challenge/response but a fixed secret)
Diablo-D3: asciilifeform: well
Diablo-D3: you're looking at the problem wrong
Diablo-D3: magstripe is 70s tech
Diablo-D3: pin and chip is 80s tech
Diablo-D3: what we want is 90s tech
benderp: plain ol gpg should suffice
benderp: don't see what all the rush is about
asciilifeform: discussion was about classical fiat bank cards
asciilifeform: where the vendors actually have a strong incentive to permit some fraud
moiety: umm #2 please for me benderp
moiety: i think we should use gpg for everything, everywhere, all the time
asciilifeform goes to boil some tea using gpg
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it was more on the smart chips in some atm cards.
joecool: asciilifeform: *but* does it lock out after too many failed attemps?
joecool: *attempts
ninjashogun: I think that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you targeted the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell them as a plug-in solution to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible to piggy-back on that system and let merchants use it as though it were card, meanwhile the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de
ninjashogun: vice, is on the bitcoin network.
asciilifeform: pray tell, why does it need to look like a card?
moiety: ok i may have been a little enthusiastic there.. BUT you cannot deny if you were offered gpg tea or normal tea, you would ask for gpg tea
asciilifeform: moiety: i'm about to drink some as we speak.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it needs to look like a card because that's how people were tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)
moiety: ninjashogun: i have no words. learn about how card processing works first?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it's more secure to use chip'n'pin because the card info isn't sent in the clear.
ninjashogun: moiety - tell me.
moiety: asciilifeform: please tell me you heated it with lasers
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: if you'd like to trick people, you've the wrong address
moiety: ninjashogun: i don't believe that's my place to do so
moiety: you have eyes
joecool: well i'm already using chip and pin openpgp
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.
ozbot: g10 Code - Smartcard
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you took the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card) then people wouldn't have started using it.
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: anyway, take this to the 'trezor' folks, not me. i've personally no interest in manufacturing 'lukewarm wallets.'
joecool: asciilifeform: have you looked at yubikey neo yet?
moiety: your metaphors and sarcasm are very clear... a few lines later ninjashogun (yawn)
Apocalyptic: is trezor still a thing ?
ninjashogun: this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy to manufacture. I don't know how much those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need to.
joecool: Apocalyptic: as much as BFL is
ninjashogun: moiety - I'll work on it :).
asciilifeform: one of the things people refuse to understand about 'yubikey' et al is that miniaturization of the keychain/card variety is fundamentally antithetical to genuine security.
moiety: meh we can handle it, i'd work on listening first
ninjashogun: fair enough.
asciilifeform: for instance, where in the keychain could one stuff an analogue rng, auditable with the naked eye and oscilloscope ?
asciilifeform: its shield?
ninjashogun: but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in this conversation - that are also actionable. It might be very hard to make a reality, but at least we know the market is there.
moiety: it's also made it clear, you don't actually read the logs
asciilifeform: the market for cold fusion is also there.
thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00081576 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: and for philosopher's stone.
mike_c: wait for it.. here's the part where he asks for funding.
joecool: i'm not that Joe
thestringpuller: wow looks like there will be some interesting things in the logs
joecool: ^^^^^
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if they have an oscilloscope ($100)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, nobody here (or anywhere) has any architectural insights on making the philosopher's stone, or cold fusion, a reality.
moiety: not yet mike_c he got distracted
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: homework. determined the cost of, starting with nothing but idle hands, personally determining exactly what your 'yubikey' does.
asciilifeform: in sufficient detail to build a second.
moiety takes out her monacle - amidoinitwrong guise?
mircea_popescu: moiety i'd take green tea
mircea_popescu: and it's a monocle
moiety: aww :( failme have some green [secure] tea
ninjashogun: mike_c - No, I don't have any interest in building a device like that. The only way it would be feasible for a single person who has not made a substantial exit in another company, is if it were strongly patentable. Idon't think it is.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller what specifically ?
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: what part of this crap do you imagine is patentable?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.006 = 0.78 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: and in what pesthole country
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I just told you, none of it is patentable.
moiety: asciilifeform: Atlantis?
asciilifeform: glad that you understand at least this.
mike_c: ascii, are you patenting anything for snsa?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example mircea_popescu could probably build a physical card that is a "lukewarm wallet" as you put it, he would have the funds, but I don't think he could get his R&D investment back - it would be money thrown away.
asciilifeform: not so much as a shoelace.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because he could not patent it to protect his R&D research into it. It's a somewhat tough problem due to the very very fine sizes involved, and also the need to have a very low cost of goods if oyu are going to sell it as a plastic cafrd. There's no model that I can think of that would support this.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: sarcasm so nothing in particular
moiety: mircea_popescu: random side note, have you had white tea?
mircea_popescu: moiety yeah. i've had all sorts of tea once at some sort of "all sorts of tea event" in greenwich village
kakobrekla: i will not admit that.
mike_c: because you don't think the IP is the important part of things, or some other reason?
mircea_popescu: it's ~==== php isntit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25650 @ 0.00081119 = 20.807 BTC [-]
moiety: mircea_popescu: i hear it's not very nice... a tea event sounds pretty cool though, to me
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: you were just told why a 'security' gizmo in the shape of a card is inescapably worthless. care to disagree? or do you even read replies at all
kakobrekla: no further comments on the subject were made. everyone lived happily ever after.
mircea_popescu: moiety the cleavage was spectaculay. oodlebunches of starving aspirational chicks wearing their friends' only designer outfit.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that tone isn't very conducive to development of anything. Not that I care.
mircea_popescu: o shit, i meant spectacular. i guess i... slipped ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00081529 = 25.3963 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ok, patiently explaining:
asciilifeform: take your yubikey, etc. and disassemble it
asciilifeform: what's inside?
moiety: s'ok i didn't notice cus i was wearing my monacle not my monocle
mike_c: trilema seems silent on the topic of patenting IP
joecool: asciilifeform: magic
mike_c: that must be the only topic i've ever looked for that it was silent on :)
mircea_popescu: you just don't read the right languages :D
joecool: damn that didn't take long
joecool: mircea_popescu: are you a bot?
wilimprex: asciilifeform: most importantly the card sw is cloused source and access to sdk is under nda
mircea_popescu: joecool i am a transcend.
asciilifeform: ok here we go
mircea_popescu: which is worse than a bot
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't like to say it but it's "just" a single-board module around a microcontroller that is a usb device
asciilifeform: ok, now what's inside the micro ?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, (I don't think this is a good use of the word "just"). But it answers your question regarding what is inside.
asciilifeform: i mean, you can certainly describe it in encyclopaedic terms.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, flash memory some ram, processor...
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what are you getting at?
asciilifeform: what would it cost you to determine exactly what the micro does
asciilifeform: and whether it matches what is printed on the box ?
Diablo-D3: wtf is that
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: you mentioned a chinese manufacturing contact. ask him. he'll tell you an exact cost, in the currency of your choice.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you oculdn't determine exactly what the micro does with any amount of money short of a multimilion dollar lab, but if you make reasonable assumptions (such as commodity components not being a highly engineered replacement) you can verify its operation for <$100 in equipment.
asciilifeform: in usd it'll be 5-6 figures.
ninjashogun: sure, yes.
ninjashogun: I agree.
asciilifeform: now why would i wish to buy this product?
ninjashogun: ? The product you linked? So that it escrows your secret and your secret doesn't make it to a file on your PC or your PC memory...
ninjashogun: (or whatever it does that is equivalent)
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: it is trivial to design a crypto-whatever with malicious trapdoor
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, I agree with you.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what is your point exactly?
joecool: Diablo-D3: xray of a yubikey neo i'm guessing
asciilifeform: joecool: yes
Diablo-D3: joecool: ahh
asciilifeform: joecool: trying to explain to ninjashogun why a crypto-gizmo like yubikey is fundamentally braindamaged
mike_c: geez, the article is in romanian and french? what's a poor american to do.
ninjashogun: do you know what that circular thing is in the middle of the xray you posted? (showing leads at 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock position)?
asciilifeform: the toggle switch.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 36 @ 0.00609996 = 0.2196 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: (i thought you owned one of these, it's clear if you do)
ninjashogun: no I don't own one.
wilimprex: asciilifeform: any not open sourced hw/sw is not worht entrusting your data/secrets
asciilifeform: correct.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay look I get that it's kind of braindamaged. ATM cards are also inherently extremely braindamaged - and loads of people have been ripped off by card swipers, false things they put their card into that is in front of a real ATM.
mircea_popescu: mike_c date a foreign slut, it won't kill you.
joecool: asciilifeform: with that being said do you feel the same way about the openpgp smartcard?
mircea_popescu: well... not in a big way anyway
mike_c: it won't kill me, but my wife will.
asciilifeform: likewise, open source is not enough.
asciilifeform: as described here:
ozbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
asciilifeform: it has to be a system that an interested, moderately-educated user might be able to... understand.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know it strikes me how much pr/social media you're doing these days
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm probably just being successfully trolled
ninjashogun: The existence of this: proves that ATM's are architecturally braindead. If a vulnerability vector like this existed even in theory, it would invalidate use of ATM's at foreign, unknown locations.
asciilifeform: joecool: no reason why the above doesn't apply to the gpg smartcard.
ninjashogun: it means it's a braindead architecture. it shouldn't be possible.
ninjashogun: That doesn't mean that ATM's aren't MASSIVELY useful, even though they are a flawed architecture.
ozbot: atm skimmer — Krebs on Security
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trying my hand at doing the kind of thing you do - enlightening stone age man
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to work terribly well. perhaps my hands simply don't grow from the correct place.
mircea_popescu: you don't have my tools, it's kind of like watching someone build bridges with a hammer
mircea_popescu: not that it can't be done
moiety: it's nothing to do with you asciilifeform, some people are unenlightenable. *sips encrypted hotchocolate*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you'd love to take over this 'customer' i'll be happy to sit back and watch.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I find some of what you have said useful. I wouldn't adopt the tone of enlightening a stone-age man, as I have a lot of experience in several areas that also make my background interesting. we can simply have a conversation you know :)
joecool: mircea_popescu: nice burn
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because my dosimeter is just about maxed out now.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00609997 = 0.1769 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: eh what's the rush.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you've brought up good points about drawbacks to a mass-adoption card that is a lukewarm bitcoin wallet accepted directly by merchants. You are right, and htose are real.
mircea_popescu: time is an essential ingredient.
mike_c: ok, i think i got the jist: IP isn't real. IP has little to do with the success of the company. It's all about management. close?
mircea_popescu: mike_c F.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu :)
mike_c: damnit.
mircea_popescu: the problem with trilema article is that they really don't have any gists
mircea_popescu: the details are more important than the actual article.
mike_c: details get quite mangled through google translate
mircea_popescu: well maybe the usg open sources its english translations/summaries of romanian t articles
mircea_popescu: eventually.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I was very highly impressed by the way in which you funded your site, and I was interested in your thoughts on a funding model I am working on for the jobs website that I mentioned to you earlier. (Based on a back-end skills graph that knows that, for example, C# is close to C++ and Java, but very far from embedded electronics design.)
ninjashogun: The following is what I was thinking:
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 107 @ 0.00612908 = 0.6558 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: (and I would love to hear your thoughts.)
moiety: mike_c: nao it comes
ninjashogun: So, the site is going to accept profiles from people (similar to LinkedIn). This sets up a chicken-and-egg problem because people would only upload a profile if htere is something in it for them, and in the beginning there owuld not be a big value proposition on the site.
moiety: would they not upload in the hope of getting a job?
ninjashogun: not in the beginning (I mean during the weekend-launch period!)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 859 @ 0.00614249 = 5.2764 BTC [+] {4}
ninjashogun: If I put an MVP I code in a weekend online, and put it on hackernews and maybe reddit, it would not have profiles in the beginning.
ninjashogun: and it would not have job ads in the beginning. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.
benderp: ninjashogun: how did mircea_popescu fund his site?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00619989 = 1.0416 BTC [+] {2}
ninjashogun: benderp - I thought I read that he took a large BTC investment, for one thing.
ninjashogun: So I would solve this via another fact. People, especially highly technical people, know that if "you are not paying for a product, you ARE the product".
benderp: wrong again, ninjashogun.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 400 @ 0.00619997 = 2.48 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00081407 = 1.0583 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: benderp - I'm sure mircea_popescu can correct me if it's relevant
Apocalyptic: it's wasn't humiliating enough to get hacked & lose all funds, but now they came with the IDEA of an btc insurance company
TomServo: ninjashogun: you could correct yourself by just reading a little.
Apocalyptic: seriously this shit is too good
mircea_popescu: such original, much trust well splendid.
ninjashogun: So, the idea is that the first 500 qualified profiles (full name, highly technical with CV, and in a major market - e.g. San Francisco, New York, London) - would get a 2.5% fully diluted equity in the company. The next 1500 profiles get 2.5%. And the following 8000 profiles get 5%.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 48 @ 0.00619999 = 0.2976 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299897 = 0.365 BTC [+]
benderp: if it's only going to take a weekend, ninjashogun, go do it and stop yammering.
Apocalyptic: I think you've written a trilema article on that in 2012 or 2013
ninjashogun: so rather than raise a traditional angel round of investment, you directly pay for the users, who "know" they are the product, to upload. Having 10,000 senior, lead, etc, technical profiles, is worth a substantial amount for the company, as well as enabling b2b deals etc.
TomServo: Sorry, I've been away a while - are we still going on about the social media rape whistle?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 55 @ 0.00624362 = 0.3434 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic i tihnk so to, but why read when one could have ideas
ninjashogun: benderp - it doesn't just take a weekend. Part of what I'm doing is the ideation portion. For example I'm soliciting mirceau's feedback on just one aspect right now.
mircea_popescu: (on which i also wrote, but w/e, writing is overrated)
mircea_popescu: TomServo we're mostly doing buffett now.
ninjashogun: benderp - I would have to be very very lucky to get an MVP up in a weekend; I'd have to know exactly what I would want on it, and it would have to be very limited scope.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: that sounds much better. More since the bitbet and your "new era" article?
benderp: ninjashogun: luck?
mircea_popescu: nah, about that.
benderp: ninjashogun: i begin to understand your grasp of software development.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, so the idea is that people know that there is a small chance they have an opportunity to invest at an early stage in the next "", and this would be a small incentive to upload their profile for some equity.
mircea_popescu: lookin at shit like i'm really curious if we're going to see a ~20k btc bet if come next year btc is still derping around 500 and berkshire is ~250l
dexX7: i don't get it? why did you mark this bet?
jurov: dexX7 it got highlighted auto
mircea_popescu: dexX7 people are making 10 btc bets on a 170/9 btc pool with 10k diff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00081119 = 6.5301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: No pays: 1.01721766 BTC
dexX7: ah
mircea_popescu: a 1% is apparently within the market granularity.
dexX7: yea, got it
Apocalyptic: "Something like that needs to be done! We must counterattack and find the criminals who do this kind of theft!
Apocalyptic: Otherwise, the altcoin and bitcoin world is going to fall apart! Who will want to have unsafe coins?"
Apocalyptic: the thread keeps on delivering
benderp: mircea_popescu: pits and tits!
mircea_popescu: benderp if anyone was curious to see how the bega looks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.0062764 = 1.2553 BTC [+]
benderp: your dog?
benderp: your bitch?
kakobrekla: his pit.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00634499 = 0.1269 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: nah, i don't have a dog.
benderp: hers?
mircea_popescu: its just a babieh yet
benderp: babby puppieeeeees
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: also, bawling
dexX7: slightly related to "scammers kill bitcoin".. half of it is about the beginning of paypal and the troubles they faced
ozbot: Bitcoin Is The New PayPal | TechCrunch
mircea_popescu: tech crutch. read all about how you don't need to really understand anything about new tech.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 182 @ 0.0063977 = 1.1644 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07299897 = 0.584 BTC [+]
benderp: i think i'll be getting my babe and my pit another puppy here soon.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 168 @ 0.00639999 = 1.0752 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: that came out a little...
benderp: yeah?
ThickAsThieves: i these articles that take so many words to say something you'd see in a tweet
jurov: tl;dr: 25k linux servers used as botnet, access gained using stolen passwords
ThickAsThieves: Paypal was and is a target for scammers and hackers, bitcoin is too! better have good security!
dexX7: haha yea, that's the tltr
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : things happen in ways things happen, it's very important to either this or the other and make sure you brush your tits in the morning.
jurov: and check your balls
jurov: The first thing that stands out when looking at the data is the average length, which is much longer
jurov: than we expected. The average length is
jurov: 11
ThickAsThieves: hmm so the new Bitcoin "Core" allows payment requests
jurov: 09
jurov: characters, a lot longer than the
jurov: 63
ThickAsThieves: cant wait for scammers to game that
jurov: characters average
jurov: found in the LulzSec leak, which was
jurov: analyzed
jurov: in
jurov: 2011
jurov: . This most likely reflects the fact that system
jurov: administrators are more conscious about the importance of strong passwords than the average
jurov: Internet user.
jurov: ooh sorry
mircea_popescu: i think we should institute a 1 bitcent fine for unseemly behaviour
mircea_popescu: to be voluntarily sent to teh donations address
ThickAsThieves: we should also have a bitcoin judgement system
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 939 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.3854% in 5d 21h 25m 29s
Neil: ;;prevdiffchange
gribble: 11.38694
jurov: was that 17 lines? guess i'm sending 0.17btc as donation then
mircea_popescu: jurov per instance not per lines
ThickAsThieves: or 1sat per line
mircea_popescu: too dusty
ThickAsThieves: whichever is greater
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15852 @ 0.00081407 = 12.9046 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: dude if someone pastes 10k lines...
ozbot: Charlamagne Doesn't Care if White People Say N-Word - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: we can back tax ninjashogun
mircea_popescu: he'd have to have btc first.
TomServo: mircea_popescu: you might appreciate that, he may even be a reader
mircea_popescu: TomServo i thought he was dead ?
TomServo: could be, I wouldn't know
mircea_popescu: ;;google charlemagne
gribble: Charlemagne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Charlemagne - Facts & Summary - <>; Charlemagne (Holy Roman emperor) -- Encyclopedia Britannica: <>
TomServo: around 2:00 is the more relevant piece
TomServo: or the beginning I should say
mircea_popescu: o it's standup
mircea_popescu: drug war veteran lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61887799 = 1.2378 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the blood argument is incredibly weak. there's a shitton of blood on "romanian", doth not make it particularly unusable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you got me reading the adventures of the 14th waffen grenadiers, which resulted in much amusement at the freitag guy
diametric: better not produce any yellow measurement devices.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00391 = 0.1955 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.00081382 = 36.6626 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: moiety good for you
moiety: thanks, the photo tours gave me the idea
Neil: Glass beads going for $600 a piece
benderp: blow stamps to be had for cheap
benderp: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 611.98, Best ask: 611.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 611.99, 24 hour volume: 6981.71545735, 24 hour low: 605.11, 24 hour high: 623.95, 24 hour vwap: 613.150833954
mircea_popescu: Neil are they on a string ?
benderp: can we buy them already in a butt?
Ghaleon: what is the best route for a startup to go public btc style?
benderp: list on cryptostocks
benderp: oh ho ho garzik's slipping protobufs back into bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.0038 = 0.4902 BTC [-]
moiety: i would like one of these, but unsure if actual dog or just cat that can bark
benderp: horrible creatures
mircea_popescu: i'd be curious in what happens if they fuck a rabbit
dexX7: what does the sec want with the user data etc.? i'm wondering, if this is about the sale of sd, btc stocks in general or an investigation about some fraud going on etc..
mircea_popescu: dexX7 they don't want to say, apparently.
mircea_popescu: people have been pointing to "clash of cultures" discussing this, and its true
mircea_popescu: but the real clash isn't "you wanna phone me ? get on irc"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: might as well ask the buggers to skip straight to kissing the ring (tm)
dexX7: they may not want to say it, sure. but what do you think about it? any guess?
mircea_popescu: the clash of cultures is between the ankylosis of old bureaucratic paperwork and contemporary digital openness
mircea_popescu: i somehow can pursue bitcoin fraud quite in the open. the sec can not. why not ?
mircea_popescu: well... it doesn't have the people, the brains, the training or the intellectual culture.
asciilifeform: or the incentive.
mircea_popescu: this obviously will have to chance, and this obviously will change. it's just that a number of otherwise well meaning people didn't even know they had this problem until last month
ninjashogun: I'll pay your backtax on unseemly behavior (along with my apologies). I have a better grasp of the channel dynamics here.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 well on what basis would i think about it. i have no idea.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the incentive it does have. it's more effective, more effectual and cheaper. that's really the eos.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 maybe the sale was fictitious. maybe erik had the wrong kind of friends, a la shrem. maybe shrem was his wrong kind of friends. who the hell knows at this point.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to the extent sec exists for some actual purpose, that purpose includes infesting the btc world with whatever plagues can be conjured up, not extinguishing them
mircea_popescu: maybe they're honestly just trying to understand wtf is going on. i could sorta see if i was in that position i'd go fishing like this. why not.
asciilifeform: it's an arm of the beast
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do you know this ?
benderp: ninjashogun: you also owe me 5btc for my time this afternoon ;)
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but how would you know ?
asciilifeform: because it is a fruit of the poisoned tree (fdr/'newdeal')
mircea_popescu: but even so.
mircea_popescu: this view requires it be too perfect a fruit.
mircea_popescu: just because her name is lilith does not know she knows how to suck cock, you know ?
mircea_popescu: does not mean*
asciilifeform: you might as well imagine that 'fda' exists For The Good of The People
Ademan: asciilifeform: some people believe that
Ademan: s/some/many/
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of space between "exists for the good of the people" and "was spawned by the devil and is making him proud"
mircea_popescu: it could just... yoiu know... sorta suck, sorta limp along as best it can...
ninjashogun: benderp 5 btc for an hour seems a bit steep :) that's $3000 per hour or a daily rate of... $24,000 - or a monthly rate of... $600,000.
mircea_popescu: i mean, normal people have normal kids, from down syndrome to superclever.
ninjashogun: benderp - I would go to monthly billing, it's probably psychologically easier to justify :)
Ademan: mircea_popescu: I got a good chuckle out of your correspondence with the SEC, bravo.
mircea_popescu: the devil only has superclever kids ? how.
mircea_popescu: Ademan cheers.
moiety: he included therapy costs for the stress
asciilifeform: all of these tentacles limp along, until they encounter... a meal.
asciilifeform: then, delicious crunch crunch
mircea_popescu: well maybe.
mircea_popescu: you ever seen a kid try to feed a lizzard ?
mircea_popescu: or w/e other reptile.
asciilifeform: sec can be manned by devils, or by mild-mannered bureaucrats just plodding along, paying their credit card bills. but in point of fact, it is a machine built for preventing americans from doing certain voluntary things with their money
mircea_popescu: it's true that reptiles are great hunters. it's false that they're uber hunting machines as the kid imagines them
mircea_popescu: speaking of which : anyone remember tom green's performance in road trip ?
asciilifeform: just the same way as nsa is built for a certain purpose
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that it fails at. miserably.
mircea_popescu: repeatedly.
mircea_popescu: despondently. bleakly.
mircea_popescu: you have no idea what depression is until you've seen the depths through the eyes of a high ranking bureaucrat.
Neil: Lol, "as well as his account statements"
asciilifeform: no need to go far for other examples. fbi, for instance, mainly relies on entrapment to manufacture 'terrorists'
joecool: heh i never read the bitvps story on trilema
asciilifeform: (see the 'new york death ray' case recently)
joecool: mircea_popescu: heroin was the likely answer regarding that case
mircea_popescu: joecool how you mean ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.054598 = 0.3276 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.066 = 0.33 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
joecool: mircea_popescu: i'm guessing he got embarrassed about his habit and stopped reporting P&L statements when the L was coming from heroin acquisitions
joecool: bitvps 2.0 was supposed to happen for him too but he started selling the equipment he lined up for that last week
mircea_popescu: afaik he got some job in the uk and forgot all about this
Apocalyptic: lolwhat
joecool: LOL
mircea_popescu: at the time bitcoin didn't look as big as it does today. iirc it was ~2-5 bux per or somesuch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever read 'Man-Eaters of Kumaon', by J. Corbett ?
Ghaleon: heroin eh?
joecool: Ghaleon: yes
mircea_popescu: or, "every ass looks good on a bike. that's why we buy bikes"
asciilifeform: a study of tigers and when/how/why they eat human
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nop
Ghaleon: we need to propel bit coin to mass respectability,.. one inch at a time
asciilifeform: essence being, it is the weak/old/injured beasts that are the most dangerous to man
asciilifeform: rather than the strongest
mircea_popescu: this is true, yeah
Ghaleon: tiger only go man eater when they lose their teeth , get wounded and cannot hunt normal prey, most animals avoid humans
asciilifeform: because they are unable to catch the meat that they actually like
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of like.
mircea_popescu: any population has its marginals
Ghaleon: yes, much as among humans, it is the cowards we must watch for.. not the brave ones
mircea_popescu: those marginals have to still make ends meet
benderp: or as I say to my staunchly little-d democratic friends "everything is born, matures, ossifies and dies. governments are no different."
asciilifeform: well, their standard diet, for whatever biological reason
mircea_popescu: why do you think it's mostly the lowlifes that scam ?
mircea_popescu: because they got offered the cushy sec job and passed on it to be on the street ?
asciilifeform: so u.s. bureaucrats are not harmless merely because of their everyday impotence.
Ghaleon: humans are good creatures by nature
asciilifeform: if anything, they are hungry for easy meat
asciilifeform: like 'silk roat' et al.
Ghaleon: the system is corrupt. it makes monsters out of many of us
mircea_popescu: except i'm a fucking briar patch.
mircea_popescu: nobody sane would try to bite a rosehip bush.
mircea_popescu: best go after actual meat.
benderp: "hardest target in bitcoin", to quote a guy.
asciilifeform: no argument. just that some naive lost soul might mistakenly conclude that 'u.s. bureaucrats, harmless'
mircea_popescu: a, certainly. nothing man made is harmless.
asciilifeform: storytime
mircea_popescu: i know a case of a woman that died through exploded colon because she and her coworker shoved an air compressor outlet in her ass
asciilifeform: in the ussr, trade in (and even possession) of gold bullion was theoretically a capital opffense
mircea_popescu: and pushed go.
mircea_popescu: air compressors, turns out, are very dangerous and quite lethal
asciilifeform: *offense
asciilifeform: it was largely never enforced, except for a certain very famous case where it was.
asciilifeform: bureaucrats wanted to 'look tough' that one time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the air compressor story is inescapably linked in my mind with Latvia.
mircea_popescu: it seriously happened here, not urban legend or anything.
asciilifeform: where the germans came across a school full of orthodox jews and publicly dispatched them in exactly this way.
asciilifeform: it was in a mechanic's shop
asciilifeform: (or rather, adjacent to one)
ozbot: Joc erotic terminat tragic
deadweasel: the ole airhose in the outhose, lethal she be
asciilifeform: except the jerries did it in reverse
asciilifeform: hose in mouth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can't blame them. it's only the past 10-20 years that you can safely go in the undies of people picked off the street.
benderp: modern impalement.
asciilifeform: benderp: impalement (of the king vlad, rather than assyrian, variety) was a much more leisurely affair
asciilifeform: the 'client' would be left alone with his thoughts for some days.
benderp: goodness.
benderp: fed?
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, is it worth a read ?
asciilifeform: esp. if the stake was thick (the 'dracula' chronicle i translated some weeks ago carefully specified 'thick')
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: is what worth read
Apocalyptic: 'Man-Eaters of Kumaon', by J. Corbett
asciilifeform: but the general fact behind the animals described therein is, i believe, well-known.
Apocalyptic: will get one then
asciilifeform: it is largely about how tigers were hunted (written by a professional)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 6102 @ 0.00361384 = 22.0517 BTC [-] {47}
ozbot: Bitcoin Girl
mircea_popescu: is this the same one as before or a totally different identical one ?
ninjashogun: (question: has trezor been audited?)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when do we get 'dollar girl' ?
mircea_popescu: i think marlin was dollar girl
joecool: lol not Leah
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: almost certainly not, given that it isn't commercially available last i checked
mircea_popescu: that one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Courtesans and Fishcakes' (J.N.Davidson) mentions an ancient greek whore affectionately called 'Obole' (after her price, 1 obol)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, will you trust it when it's available?
mircea_popescu: nah, the greek girl was phyrne
Shakespeare: "and an e-mail sent to a general mailbox at SatochiDice was unanswered." I wonder why!
Shakespeare: SEC isnt run by the devil or whatever, i thought it was run by perverts and sex addicts?
mircea_popescu: i didn't even know they had an inbox
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: there is sufficient information available about 'trezor' to learn the answer to this. but please do own homework
Shakespeare: if they dom it's certainly not
mircea_popescu: dude what's with these people mispelling sites
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, given that my question is whether you, specifically, will trust it - there is no way to do so other than to ask you :)
mircea_popescu: the daphne chick misspelled her own email in her own sigblock, it's like...
mircea_popescu: do you even type!
asciilifeform: mispelling is 'yesterday' - 'today' is 'bit-squatting.'
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: if you must know, the answer is no.
mircea_popescu: carsam ^ you misspelled the domain name.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok
Shakespeare: <@assbot> [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 13898 @ 0.00312378 = 43.4143 BTC [-] {39} /// impressive!
mircea_popescu: so til my name means Peace Priest.
dexX7: ninjashogun: trezor firmware is open source afaik, so you can always verify for yourself or push your own version
mircea_popescu: i am hereby the first and probably only simpleminded psychotic peace priest.
asciilifeform: dexX7: in what sense is it open source?
Ademan: asciilifeform: I was under the impression both the hardware and software are going to be open source
benderp: Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one?
Ademan: "slush said so in the advertising video"
mircea_popescu: Ademan the space between going to be and is.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, what does that mean?
asciilifeform: dexX7: the vendor's site has a bunch of stuff but none of the actual interesting bits. this may change at some point, ask him.
ninjashogun: are you exchanging a symmetric password with someone over this channel? ;-)
Ademan: mircea_popescu: considering the trezor hasn't been released yet though, it hardly bothers me.
asciilifeform: although there are interesting bits that can be inferred merely from the pcb mask posted by the author.
Ademan: not that I'll give them any money right now though
asciilifeform: but, why should i steal all of the surprises? it's unsportsmanlike.
dexX7: "Some of the sources are at We are in the process of finalizing and cleaning up the sources and preparing a security audit of the code. We will publish the sources before shipping TREZOR to our customers."
mircea_popescu: Ademan kinda in the same boat myself.
dexX7: ah i didn't know that not everything was already released
Shakespeare: <benderp> Shakespeare: what was the slippage on that one? /// I dunno if it'd be fair to assess considering the volatility daily, but I think the sale started about 20% higher than where it ended
Shakespeare: last week it was a similar price though
Shakespeare: so overall not a bad out for whoever
benderp: so copyright and patents. do these survive the bitpocalypse?
Ademan: benderp: nope, IP bad
Shakespeare: they survive, via WoT
Ademan: Shakespeare: how does WoT = IP?
Ademan: or ~= even
Ademan: (not the perl meaning though)
Shakespeare: it certainly doesnt equal it
Shakespeare: but in as much as what copyright really is
benderp: "IP bad" an argument doth not make, Ademan.
asciilifeform: Ademan: how does WoT = IP << see mp's piece on how 'the same string, emitted from different mouths, is worth different amount'
asciilifeform: wot tells you which mouth.
mircea_popescu: benderp that's complicated.
benderp: mircea_popescu: i know. kinda why i bring it to the sages.
mircea_popescu: i think your cancer joke is too soon.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 981 @ 0.00015394 = 0.151 BTC [+]
Shakespeare: what's this nonsense where if you direct link a WSJ article, you get a paywall
Shakespeare: but if you Google it, you dont
ozbot: SecondMarket Seeks to Open Bitcoin Fund to Ordinary Investors -
Shakespeare: SecondMarket seeks to get a call from Ms. Waxman
Ademan: asciilifeform: Well the objectionable part of IP for me is more patent trolling, punishing independent discovery of the same thing, stupidly narrow fair use policies. I'd definitely be ok with an independent institution that tracks initial discoveries, and if the market is willing to pay more for products from them, then great
mircea_popescu: "seeks" you know ?
asciilifeform: what prevents 'ordinary investor' from simply buying btc somewhere?
mircea_popescu: alaskan husky seeks to knit sweater
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand the press do you.
Shakespeare: "SecondMarket Inc. is racing to open up a private bitcoin investment fund to ordinary investors as soon as the fourth quarter, potentially beating a rival offering by two investors best known for their lawsuit against Facebook Inc. FB -1.37% chief executive Mark Zuckerberg."
Shakespeare: such a painful sentence
Shakespeare: oh they are SO COOL for not spelling out Winklevoss
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: evidently not.
Ademan: I can't wait until the absurd amount of funds on wallstreet join in the price rollercoaster
asciilifeform: why does anybody interested in btc need a 'fund' ?
asciilifeform: someone please enlighten me?
mircea_popescu: Ademan it's complicated.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because the average american owns some bezzle called 401k
mircea_popescu: which he's not allowed to spend on normal nonbezzle items
ozbot: BitBeat: KnCMiner Flips the Scrypt; Sells $2 Million of New Rigs in Four Hours - MoneyBeat - WSJ
mircea_popescu: should bitcoin get bezzle status, adelman problem
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, i know of this - one time got a new job and forgot to opt out, lost a few bucks into nevernever land
Shakespeare: to bad that bet ends so soon
kakobrekla: not much game on ltc bets
Ademan: it's also a sufficient PITA to buy BTC (legally) and the average person *likes* investing in HerpDerp Corp, and are no doubt frightened by there being no CEO of Bitcoin to hate
Shakespeare: if you had maybe more action
Shakespeare: of course would have to come first
Shakespeare: she's selfish like that
diametric: theres ltc bombs if i'm not mistaken
kakobrekla: well i guess that is another thing you can build on top of bbet, on the fly exchange
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: that sounds like a good way to end up playing 'moldbug's chess'
Shakespeare: so you'd be okay with an ATC mirror that simply converted to BitBets?
asciilifeform: 'Imagine a chess game. Now, imagine a group of kibitzers watching the chess game. Now, imagine the kibitzers begin to bet on the game. The betting will create odds. The odds express each side's probability of winning. This is a prediction market. To turn this prediction market into a decision market, we say: could we get rid of one of the players, and just have the kibitzers play the game?'
ozbot: Unqualified Reservations: The Hanson-Moldbug debate
kakobrekla: ;;google moldbugs chess
gribble: Unqualified Reservations: The Hanson-Moldbug debate: <>; Overcoming Bias : My Moldbug Debate: <>; Bruce Charlton's Miscellany: The Leftism of Mencius Moldbug: <>
diametric: How is the market cap going to be determined in that bet?
diametric: oh wait it has a link in it
Shakespeare: the bet is over no?
diametric: Does Ripple count?
diametric: this bet seems super ambiguous
Shakespeare: the bet is closed man
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61889 BTC [+]
diametric: Apparently I'm blind
diametric: as well
diametric: carry on
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.619158 = 3.0958 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: diametric is super confused.
Ademan: mircea_popescu: is reddit's /u/MPOE-PR legit?
mircea_popescu: uh whassat ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.629622 = 3.1481 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.63010999 = 2.5204 BTC [+] {2}
diametric: more popescu clones
Ademan: diametric: *PR clones
Ademan: wow, AM1 is actually recovering
ThickAsThieves: what does recovering mean?
Ademan: whoa
Ademan: well, it's been down to 0.4 iirc
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment
mircea_popescu: robertmcmillan ello.
ThickAsThieves: "Facebook Security Director Joins Bitcoin Startup Coinbase"
novusordo: neato
ThickAsThieves: from Wired?
mircea_popescu: robertmcmillan to speak you type in the little box on the bottom and hit enter
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves prolly.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform not sure how this correlates , explain ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: any kind of heavy machinery directly wired to a prediction market is, well... this.
ThickAsThieves: kako only suggested a conversion mechanism, no?
kakobrekla: correct
asciilifeform: not that it's a bad idea per se, just that the builder must be careful to avoid creating a situation where someone can lift out of his pockets by artificially steering the machine using a heavy bet
robertmcmillan: Hey Mircea. Sorry not used to this UI. How do I DM you?
ThickAsThieves: there's mor ethan one way to design such a thing for bitbet, so i could see a bad design being possible
kakobrekla: i see only one way
ThickAsThieves: well how do you handle payout in alts?
asciilifeform: roughly, fooling the system by betting in a particular way should always have -EV.
kakobrekla: but whatever, lets not get into that, someone should at least try to do it though
dexX7: Ademan: + data sheet "leaked" yesterday ... gen 3 is coming
asciilifeform: as soon as it has +EV under any conceivably-predictable circumstances, you're fucked
Ademan: dexX7: yeah, saw that, wasn't gen3 supposed to be out by this month though?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think his idea was just "offer altcoin betting on bitbet, do alt<>btc conversion for your customers transparently"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps i misunderstood then
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.0035 = 0.1085 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: my impression was that he suggested coupling a bitbet-like apparatus to a trading bot.
dexX7: Ademan: well, tape-out was scheduled for end of january, but there was no delievery date published to my knowledge
asciilifeform: Ademan: where is the RAM?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00634444 = 0.1269 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: or, you could just only use the content and outcome of bitbet, and handle your own escrow of alts
Ademan: asciilifeform: RAM for what? SHA256 doesn't need much memory
asciilifeform: wait i thought this was ltc
asciilifeform should probably goto bed
dexX7: Ademan: additionally there are some who believe there was already a test run with the new chips and a reseller already promoted an am gen3 based miner
kakobrekla: the money flow nao is user->bbet->user, to implement alt you do it user->service->bbet->service->user
kakobrekla: where service is a proxy via exchange
Ademan: dexX7: I thought I read an update that stated Q1 back in december
ThickAsThieves: problem is you dont wanna convert it twice
dexX7: that was probably related to the tape out in january
novusordo: one of AM's previous resellers posted something about a new miner, with specs
benderp: robertmcmillan: welcome
dexX7: yea rockxie or so
deadweasel: also, why support alts?
kakobrekla: yes well i dont want to do the dishes
deadweasel: bingo
ThickAsThieves: many reasons deadweasel
dexX7: alts are great as testbed
ThickAsThieves: the easiest being, they exist and always will
ThickAsThieves: best not to pretend otherwise
deadweasel: and the admin work of shuffling them around is absurd
Ademan: ideally you'd accept every payment option possible to maximize your potential customers, really
deadweasel: shells, do you accept my shells?
ThickAsThieves: send them to my cryptsy wallet
novusordo: pls take my cryptoshekels
kakobrekla: yes, flapcoin will save bbet like bitcoin saved overstock
deadweasel: i didn't say shares, tat
dexX7: unrelated: awesome :D
Ademan: deadweasel: well show me the shell/BTC exchange so I can convert them to something useful for me and sure!
novusordo: oh cool let me just deposit my shells aaaaaand it's gone
deadweasel: novusordo: you should start cryptoshekels.
deadweasel: give it away to your temple friends
Orion__: hello everyone
novusordo: wouldn't be too difficult
Orion__: i have a tiny little problem and i'm in need of an expert
benkay: what's going on Orion__?
mircea_popescu: Orion__ hi
novusordo: seems like everyone and their mother has a personal altcoin now
mircea_popescu: novusordo momcoin. not a bad idea
deadweasel: unfortunately so.
novusordo: so why not me too?
deadweasel: that is the question
ThickAsThieves: well Altcoin renders most altcoins worthless
novusordo: i'll create momcoin under a different pseudonym, and give it slightly different properties than cryptoshekels
Ademan: git clone && cd bitcoin && find -iname '*.h' -print0 -o -iname '*.cpp' -print0 | xargs -0 sed -i 's/[Bb]itcoin/CryptoShekels/g'
novusordo: so that i can pump both at the same time
mircea_popescu: novusordo there are people who consider themselves into various technical fields, such as buildingh
mircea_popescu: who go to specialised stores and buy tools on the principle that the tools are useful, and so why not buy some tools.
Ademan: novusordo: and I'll create MILFcoin to compete with momcoin
mircea_popescu: then milpcoin
mircea_popescu: miltfcoin
novusordo: Ademan: i see you're an altcoin design pro
benkay: Ademan: you missed the secret sauce with that one-liner.
Ademan: lol
benkay: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo: blog updated. look, ma! no bootstrap!
dexX7: what was your blog again, benkay?
benkay: although now the linespacing issue with footnotes is just that much more apparent.
dexX7: ah ty
mircea_popescu: lol i guess so
dexX7: kinda minimal design approach hehe
benkay: hue hue hue
mircea_popescu: anyone kept a copy of the s.dice contract ?
dexX7: shouldn't be one on mpex?
ozbot: S.DICE last 5@0.00311776
benkay: mircea_popescu: may i post a copy of the s.dice contract on my blog?
mircea_popescu: go ahead if you have it
mircea_popescu: robertmcmillan ^ there's your link
dexX7: ic. weired
dexX7: nice, also archived the prospectus pdfs etc.
ozbot: The Satoshi Dice Contract
benkay: bonus side effect of ripping out the css and js from my site is how much more snappy it is.
benkay: not even gzipping, i'll bet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.0008149 = 10.6752 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: groan
nubbins`: you guys
nubbins`: it's like a competition to see whose website can look the shittiest
decimation: the irony of all this ukrainian nazi talk is that germans were in ukraine for a long time - they were forcibly resettled by Stalin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 152 @ 0.0034 = 0.5168 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6200001 BTC [-]
decimation: In 1897, there lived 345 000 Germans in Ukraine, that was 4,2 % of the population. In 1911, there were 419 000 Germans. ... In spite of it, Germans played an important part in the Ukrainian culture life. Until 1914 many professors at Ukrainian universities were Germans.
SatoshiJack: Looking for players to test (Multi-Player Blackjack) No client. Just Browser/HTML5
Ademan: "our custom JS exploit installs our malware for you!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05509978 = 0.1102 BTC [+]
diametric: hah...
antephialtic: what happened to S.DICE ?
Ademan: antephialtic: the SEC?
antephialtic: if MP thinks he's not breaking any laws, why would he delist it?
Ademan: He can afford a lawyer, maybe his lawyer informed him otherwise :-p
mircea_popescu: antephialtic it was delisted like a year ago
moiety: i sreepy, good mew all, whatever your timezone!
antephialtic: ah, nevermind then
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: do you find it curious that they were willing to accept BTC addresses as identification?
mircea_popescu: guy said he sold it out.
mircea_popescu: who ? satoshidice ?!
mircea_popescu: that's how it works.
antephialtic: no SEC
mircea_popescu: sec what ?
antephialtic: the SEC asked you to identify MPEx shareholders of S.DICE, and was willing to accept Name and address OR btc address
mircea_popescu: you know, just because i ask for x y z doesn't automatically mean i consider all of these "identification"
BCB: SEC has a blockchain parser with you names next to all the addresses.
antephialtic: makes you wonder just how far along they are on deanonymization
mircea_popescu: so far they have problems spelling their domain name and following their own regulation.
diametric: anyone have a particular cheap 5v buck converter module on ebay they've had not burn their homes down?
diametric: wait wrong channel.
diametric: though still applies.
Ademan: diametric: there's a buck converter that's intended to be a drop in for the 7805 actually, it's a bit pricey though
antephialtic: perhaps the SEC is inept, but there are other agencies in the US government that contract services from non-inept firms to do their dirty work
antephialtic: and the bumpkins at the SEC may have been given access to such a tool built by such a contractor.
diametric: Ademan: really? thats interesting, link?
mircea_popescu: antephialtic yeah, some dude was in chan last month.
Ademan: like, $10 pricey, if you want them for prototyping and don't summon too much blue smoke they're probably useful though
diametric: I'm just curious, the easiest ones I've seen have been the ti simpler switcher ones, but they're not at all a dropin for a 7805
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: let this be a lesson (not to you, but to us) on the importance of using techniques such as merge avoidance, coinjoin & coinswap.
[\]: mircea_popescu
[\]: why you gotta be harassing the nice sec lady?
BCB: antephialtic, have you viewed any of the SEC's workproduct pretaining to the pirateat40 case? It's pretty impressive
Ademan: "nice"
mircea_popescu: [\\\] well she wanted to be friends.
diametric: should have said tits or gtfo
mircea_popescu: you wanna be friends with me you gotta perform.
[\]: mircea_popescu: I forgot you don't play well in the sandbox.
BCB: That would be sexual harrassment
asciilifeform: sec, deanonymization << meta-nsa has patent, will be displeased
antephialtic: BCB: no, but I'm going to have a look
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they actually patent the secret shit too ?
BCB: antephialtic, I'll dig up a link for you.
antephialtic: BCB: found it on scribd already
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usa has an ancient legal device called 'secret patent'
mircea_popescu: i didn't know they still bothered
Ademan: diametric: you're not in ##electronics ? Anyways actually *isn't* the one I was thinking of but it's the right idea
BCB: antephialtic, that is the motion for summary judgement
diametric: Ademan: i should join that channel, thanks.
asciilifeform: diametric: what v to what v ?
mircea_popescu: BCB what was so impressive about said "workproduct" ?
[\]: By the end of fiscal year 1991, the number of patent secrecy orders stood at 6,193. Many such orders were imposed on individuals and organizations working without government support. This number shrank for each fiscal year thereafter, until 2002. Since 2002, the number of secrecy orders has grown, with 5,002 secrecy orders in effect at the end of fiscal year 2007.
antephialtic: BCB: you have a link to the original complaint?
diametric: asciilifeform: realistically I'll be using it for 24V -> 5V, and something around 10-15W without any active cooling
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: getting your patent 'secreted' was once the ultimate crackpot 'street cred' (e.g. flanagan and 'neurophone')
BCB: these guys don't fuck around
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i hope they did at least a dozen troll secretions/year
mircea_popescu: basic opsec anyway.
asciilifeform: afaik it's only ever done to zap potential competition of 'favorite son' dod contractors.
antephialtic: BCB: not bad
BCB: antephialtic, pretty impressive.
BCB: talk about following the money
asciilifeform: sha1 hash? wonder if those are legally binding
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kinda cool that bitcoin is immune.
asciilifeform: diametric: you might be able to get away with a re-purposed car->usb converter
asciilifeform: for the voltage buck
asciilifeform: barbaric, but you can get them by the dozen
diametric: yeah
asciilifeform: make sure it actually pisses out 5v before connecting anything valuable...
novusordo: i'm trying to figure out how to power my raspberry pi on 5V to send up in a balloon soon
novusordo looks at car->usb converter on corner of desk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.0034 = 0.1462 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: just add a bunch of cells neh ?
mircea_popescu: get 6 zinc-air together you have about 3 ampere-hour in there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'pi' needs 5.0v within 5%, if i recall
asciilifeform: hence his question about vregs.
mircea_popescu: to a large degree buttons are small regulating neh ?
asciilifeform: if only.
mircea_popescu: can't you get models taht are essentially draw-driven ?
asciilifeform: which is to say, they are, in the sense that a li cell that's been dead for decades will sometimes measure 3.0
asciilifeform: when disconnected
mircea_popescu: ie, they discharge at a given rate, you can alter their actual voltage by the resistence ?
asciilifeform: you can - this is called 'divider' - but it throws away energy
mircea_popescu: well yeah
mircea_popescu: but 6 x .9 = 5.4
asciilifeform: 'buck converter' is more efficient, in that it works by letting a cap charge to the desired voltage and then empty into another
mircea_popescu: you're only throwing away like .2 or sometyhing
asciilifeform: voltage dividers also have a nasty habit of non-linearity over current draw
mircea_popescu: or conversely 4 x 1.3 is just about 5.x
asciilifeform: work it out on napkin
asciilifeform: hence people buy 'regulators' - e.g. the ubiquitous 7805
asciilifeform: or, the slightly more determined, buy/build 'dc-dc' converters, of the kind described previously.
asciilifeform: no need for napkin!
mircea_popescu: the internet saves paper.
asciilifeform: sure does.
antephialtic: think the SEC is going to learn about the Streisand Effect
mircea_popescu: was linked afore
mircea_popescu: uh, whatdid they try to delete ?
antephialtic: asciilifeform: when can I buy a cardano?
asciilifeform: antephialtic: there is to be a cardano at mp's party. if you really can't wait, you can come and buy that one.
asciilifeform: why the hurry?
antephialtic: I was recently looking into buying a hardware device for GPG signing and everything on the market looks pretty clunky. I stumbled onto the Cardano, and it seemed pretty well suited to my use case
asciilifeform: antephialtic: be so kind as to briefly describe your use case - for my enlightenment
antephialtic: have multiple machines that I want to sign emails from, some of which are not fully in my control (e.g. workstation owned by employer)
mircea_popescu: sounds like a winner.
asciilifeform: this is certainly one of the intended use scenarios, yes.
mircea_popescu: antephialtic ideally should be available to order late april.
antephialtic: cool, do you have any idea what the pricing will be like?
asciilifeform: mp proposed a tentative price at one point, but that was some time ago
asciilifeform: intent is for the product to be priced competitively vs. the state-of-the-art alternative (i.e. the traditional '90s laptop with linux/gpg in ROM)
asciilifeform: that is, the contrivance i assume everyone here is presently using in lieu of a cardano
asciilifeform: do not neglect to take into account what the substitute costs (incl. one's time)
asciilifeform: the old saw, 'xxxx is free if yer time has no value'
antephialtic: indeed. as long as the price is not obscene, I am willing to pay for convenience without sacrificing security.
diametric: It saddens me my get in wot is not of one generated with a cardano.
diametric: key*
asciilifeform: diametric: you do know that one can change keys in wot
asciilifeform: diametric: assuming, naturally, control of the previous key
diametric: asciilifeform: I swore you had told me you couldn't before.
asciilifeform: you can. it was buggy formerly
diametric: I must have misheard you
asciilifeform: and took ages
asciilifeform: i did mention that i tried and it croaked
asciilifeform: but two weeks later, there it was
mircea_popescu: antephialtic price won't be obscene
asciilifeform: diametric: afaik the only well-known, interesting place where key can never be changed is mpex
mircea_popescu: and even there... reg new key, push assets, good to go.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i'm mistaken, this counts as buying a new subscription
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i like to imagine that it covers the cost of a girl etching the new key in a granite plinth
mircea_popescu: lol if it weren't a security issue i suppose i could make rings for people
asciilifeform: and tossing the old one in the reactor
mircea_popescu: like the superbowl
mircea_popescu: "Make no mistake that the US gov't already knows the real identity and location of MP."
mircea_popescu: mah real identitty o noes
diametric: I like the ones where you're not actually a person, but a group of individuals pretending to be a guy named Mircea Popescu
novusordo: didn't know about the cardano, interesting
diametric: and of course the one where everyone in this channel is you.
asciilifeform: bourbaki!
antephialtic: spoiler alert: MP = Satoshi Nakamoto
mircea_popescu: diametric that is actually pretty close to the truth of the matter.
mircea_popescu: various people doing my research for me, feeding me links and so on
mircea_popescu: actually come to think of it... i'm like kirk, if the bridge bunnies were actually useful
mircea_popescu: rather than telegenic
antephialtic: do you actually write the tweets?
mircea_popescu: well some are automated reposts from trilema
antephialtic: if you mind me asking, when did you first hear about BTC?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 47 @ 0.00350002 = 0.1645 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: early 2011.
antephialtic: well, good luck with the SEC business. I suspect it will bring you a lot of attention, releasing those emails has definitely already made some waves.
Duffer1: what's the plan if they attempt subpeona?
Mats_cd03: Can "I am Satoshi Nakamoto" be a thing?
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00079813 / 0.00080834 / 0.00081619 (2123197 shares, 1,716.28 BTC), 7D: 0.00079084 / 0.00081827 / 0.00089749 (8082472 shares, 6,613.68 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085022 / 0.0008982 (30740127 shares, 26,136.16 BTC)
thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.0008149 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: A la Fight Club
antephialtic: I would actually buy the bitcoin glasses from the newsweek cover
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it doth say there, mpex does comply with legal requests.
mircea_popescu: basically, there's two avenues open. you can make a legal request, or you can make a legal request.
mircea_popescu: to make a friendly request you gotta be friends. the path ot becoming friends is detailed.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00366979 = 0.9174 BTC [+] {9}
mircea_popescu: to make a legal request you gotta make that legal request. i wouldn't presume to teach teh sec how to do that.
antephialtic: MP: it would have been way cooler if they had joined the WOT :-(
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 i don't see why not. i thought it already is, but more like "he is satoshi nakamoto"
mircea_popescu: antephialtic they probably will.
thestringpuller: WoT is open source no?
thestringpuller: or at least nanotube 's gribble is
mircea_popescu: the two are distinct.
mircea_popescu: heh i got confused earlier. " you can make a friendly request, or you can make a legal request" is what i meant
benkay: no no it was much better the first way
antephialtic: besides, I don't think MP is the one in trouble here. Voorhees, on the other hand ...
mircea_popescu: anyway, i dunno why people are so touchy really.
mircea_popescu: but i do imagine it makes administerting justice in the us fucking impossible.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how cops can manage in that sort of poisonous atmosphere
thestringpuller: lol watch an episode of cops
Mats_cd03: if someone makes t shirts with "i am satoshi nakamoto" with a v for vendetta theme or ghost in the shell, i will be your first customer
antephialtic: police treatment in the US is very different depending on race and socioeconomic status
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 700 @ 0.00047503 = 0.3325 BTC [+] {4}
antephialtic: if you are a white guy it is pretty much cheat mode
Mats_cd03: cops is a theatrical production
diametric: antephialtic: if you're upper middle class white guy
antephialtic: if you are black/hispanic you get hassled, constantly
diametric: poor white guys only fare a little bit better
antephialtic: agreed.
asciilifeform: people have this odd concept that encounters with police take place exclusively in traffic
thestringpuller: Mats_cd03: if you sell 6 shirts I'll do it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well cause the us made the mistake of giving the cops squad cars
mircea_popescu: so now they won't ever get out of them if they can help it
asciilifeform: if they're 'the bullet with your name on it, not the shrapnel addressed 'to occupant'' - doesn't matter if you're black, white, martian
mircea_popescu: wait what ?
joecool: mircea_popescu: the bigger ones moved up to SUVs. more room
benkay: Mats_cd03: google "i am satoshi nakamoto"
antephialtic: actually I have seen quite a few urban cops on segways.
mircea_popescu: jesus why is everyone so opposed to walking
thestringpuller: ;;google site: mpex tech stuff
antephialtic: like a less intimidating version of robocop
gribble: MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <>; MPEx security breach pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <>; MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <>
mircea_popescu: walking is great!
asciilifeform: if i recall, there was a fed. gov grant for them to buy the machines
asciilifeform: accounted for a good fraction of the net sales
antephialtic: Dean Kamen must have had a friend in the DoJ
asciilifeform: 'poetic justice' - the idiot who bought segway corp. ended up driving his... off a cliff.
dexX7: says a guy who rides a horse in the desert ;)
ozbot: Segway company owner rides scooter off cliff - World news - Europe | NBC News
asciilifeform: last words, 'noooooooo....'
mircea_popescu: hahaha i did not know that
mircea_popescu: weird. wild.
joecool: mircea_popescu: true story, I was actually stopped by a cop multiple times one day because I decided to walk to the next town instead of driving one day, he damanded to know my destination and I refused to provide him with it.
joecool: mircea_popescu: walking in the US is suspicious behavior
antephialtic: In many parts of the US, especially the south, townships are designed such that walking is impractical and everyone must have a car
antephialtic: to keep the homeless away
novusordo: damnit, window focus
asciilifeform: many years ago, as a freshly graduated kid, i worked in a dreadful salt mine where one of the products was a military bot based on a segway with the top part sawn off.
asciilifeform: worked about as well as you'd expect
asciilifeform: 100% gov. funded
asciilifeform: they even had the audacity to... solicit donations from the public!
MisterE: joecool: living in the US is suspicious behavior
asciilifeform: 'help our beloved warriors in iraq'
joecool: MisterE: of course, though I intend to eventually move out
MisterE: lol asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did it produce ?
MisterE: joecool: if you can work remotely don't hesitate
MisterE: I left the US 8-years ago and never looked back best thing I ever did
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not afaik
joecool: MisterE: you're the second one who has told me that now
mircea_popescu: so where'you now ?
MisterE: mircea_popescu: no just a few billion thrown at a contractor, its a jobs program
MisterE: Asia
MisterE: joecool: I might have told you once in the past heh
MisterE: I recommend everyone with a head on their shoulders gtfo of US now
joecool: MisterE: did you own a VPN company for awhile?
MisterE: come live here where cost of living is so low
MisterE: no not me
MisterE: you can have western standard of living for a few hudred USD /month
antephialtic: MisterE: SE Asia?
antephialtic: Thailand is quite cheap, yes. Lots of security people there as well
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: "This means that the physical machine which hosts the trading engine is not accessible directlyii from the Internet." <<< so if i were to vpn a machine with a private gpg key and send data over the wire (via some computer) I would never have to worry about the keyring being compromised? Or is the most effective way to sign/encrypt/decrypt/verify data on an airgapped machine then marshall it over v
MisterE: I was in land use planning and commercial development permitting
MisterE: antephialtic: yes my 'home base' is Bangkok
mircea_popescu: check out businessweek. an entire article, no links.
MisterE: lol
MisterE: such crap journalism these days
antephialtic: MisterE: have you ever been to Vang Vieng, Laos?
MisterE: I'm working on an idea to address that mircea_popescu
antephialtic: they don't wanna give mpex any pagerank
mircea_popescu: "SatoshiDice listed shares on MPEx in August 2012, according to an MPEx-affiliated website."
mircea_popescu: ", according to a copy of the request posted on the website"
mircea_popescu: basically, copy/pasted the bloomberg story.
MisterE: antephialtic: thats how they pronounce it but proper spelling is Vientiane, I have been there several times for visas but can't say I enjoy the place
antephialtic: Vientaine is actually a different city
MisterE: oh?
antephialtic: Vang Vieng is a party location. Went there when I was in college with a few friends. It's like heaven on earth
MisterE: I haven't travelled much in Laos there's not really much there heh
MisterE: oh I believe that, Laos can be lawless
MisterE: thats where TPB guys are chilling out
antephialtic: Anyone here in Japan?
joecool: mircea_popescu: waiting for newsweek's version
antephialtic: er... newsweak
MisterE: also lots of drug gangs and chances for big problems if you wanter off the well worn path without a guide /friend in Laos
MisterE: It would be akin to walking around Can Cun back up away from the beach where the narco mansions are
mircea_popescu: joecool well, maybe they find some old guy named mircea popescu somewhere close to burbank.
MisterE: Mexico
antephialtic: yeah, probably not a good idea
MisterE: not for a fat whitey like me :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00374477 = 0.749 BTC [+] {5}
dexX7: spoiler: posts a story on sd + sec, too
antephialtic: off topic, but it appears MH370 has been found
joecool: mircea_popescu: if you look hard enough you can find any name in the US, someone named their kid Adolf Hitler a couple towns over
mircea_popescu: antephialtic where was it ?
mircea_popescu: "couch cushions"
antephialtic: "Australia Satellite Imagery Locates Two Objects That Look Like Parts of An Aircraft"
antephialtic: "Australia Prime Minister Says Search Aircraft Dispatched to Area, Expected to Arrive Soon"
mircea_popescu: Courtney Love claims she has 'found' missing Malays
antephialtic: no further info.
MisterE: WTF really?
jcpham: In her twat?
antephialtic: this is the WSJ. guessing somewhere in the ocean, however
MisterE: I was sure aliens snatched it out of the air :)
jcpham: Speaking of snatch
MisterE: ^ :D
MisterE: .bait
antephialtic: fucking supermarket tabloids
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00378979 = 0.1516 BTC [+] {2}
dexX7: businessweek also copy pasted "SatochiDice"
Duffer1: You gotta read how they compromised the exchange
asciilifeform: it's this crap - or, 'shall be delivered.' you are your key.
asciilifeform: gotta pick.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 funny huh
dexX7: "Using only the owner’s name, the thief was allegedly able to ..." wow
Duffer1: lmao
asciilifeform: 'At no point during the nearly two-hour-long conversation was the caller asked to verify his identity.' << by coughing up a magic number known to every spammer, aha right
mircea_popescu: "Rogers Data Centres told the Citizen that it is cooperating with the investigation, but that the security issue is not indicative of larger problems at its company."
asciilifeform: at this point, these folks can be safely considered as lowered into goxerasty
asciilifeform: anyone who voluntarily does business with them is chumpatron fuel
mircea_popescu: now this is what i would like to see.
mircea_popescu: any hoster that does this, fined 100 btc. fixed flat fee.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00359 = 0.1149 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: so everyone knows not to keep over 100 btc in hot wallets, and so every hoster has a serious incentive to do security.
asciilifeform: by all rights, 'fined' - by the users - 100% of their revenue
mircea_popescu: flat fee. you give away a server ? that'll be 100 btc.
mircea_popescu: story ends there.
dexX7: this is better. "Rogers said it has offered Canadian Bitcoins a “credit” as a result of the situation. Grant said the credit was nowhere near sufficient to cover the company’s loss and as a result his firm is contemplating legal action."
ozbot: Ottawa bitcoin exchange defrauded of $100,000 in cyber currency
asciilifeform: i can't really picture the local tyrant fining them. now, paying, on the other hand!
asciilifeform: 'here's $100k. lose yer coin'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62999992 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: can someone please kill off businessinsider
ThickAsThieves: fukn useless
bitcoinpete: asciilifeform: you're right, the cardano isn't the holy grail. but teleportation still is. i've edited the article accordingly.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: link fixed, just deleted that last / and it fixed itself. and i thought you'd like the art bit.
bitcoinpete: from citizen: "Canadian Bitcoins is the latest bitcoin exchange to be successfully targeted by thieves. Japanese Mt. Gox was forced out of business last month after hackers successfully infiltrated the exchanges’ security and stole as much as $468 million US worth of bitcoin." karpeles is a hacker now?
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