Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-03-10 | 2014-03-12 → ↓
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.06899603 = 1.7249 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'entropy' link was epic. author deserves some kind of medal. 'Order of Golden Turd, First Class' ?
mircea_popescu: which one is this ?
asciilifeform: i don't think i've ever read such an artful piece of disinfo
ozbot: Myths about /dev/urandom
mircea_popescu: moiety yes i am.
mircea_popescu: o that. well... his gross point re random/urandom has some validity
asciilifeform: or the linked:
ozbot: cr.yp.to:
mircea_popescu: tbh i figure it's just random kid that overheard the adults talking and ran off with whatever he misunderstood of it
asciilifeform: watch where he proposes a pill against the recent (theretical) break of lattice crypto.
mircea_popescu: o look, moiety is actually kinda cute irl, if somewhat upside down
asciilifeform: it's not a kid, the bastard knows what he's doing.
asciilifeform: or rather, what he wishes us to do.
mircea_popescu: what'd that be ?
asciilifeform: running off prng, for one
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60999999 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: this chap is not a schneier, he's an 'fda grade-A' mathematical judas goat.
mircea_popescu: let's consider some fun facts together : gpg takes ~5 minutes to generate a 2k key
mircea_popescu: bitcoind/qt take 0 seconds to generate a new address.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00086746 = 14.9637 BTC [-] {4}
Mats_cd03: .bait
mircea_popescu: then people derp about how incredible secure bitcoin addressing is
mircea_popescu: sure, it *could* be.
asciilifeform: ecc remains mystery meat.
asciilifeform: yeah, we've been eating it, no ill effects - so far.
mircea_popescu: but leaving that aside for a moment, bitcoin runs off prng
asciilifeform: bad rng is not a magical instant death
mircea_popescu: artifexd nubbins` bloctoc well, that artifex guy in the wot has all his ratings during may/june of 2011
asciilifeform: attack against rng should be seen as 'part of a balanced diet' of pwnage
mircea_popescu: most likely someone stole the nickserv reg
mircea_popescu: !t h neobee
assbot: [HAVELOCK:NEOBEE] 1D: 0.00301000 / 0.003579 / 0.00425000 (33532 shares, 120.01086616 BTC), 7D: 0.00301000 / 0.00401661 / 0.00497520 (116451 shares, 467.73874230 BTC), 30D: 0.00261000 / 0.00439242 / 0.00600000 (621992 shares, 2732.04948959 BTC)
mircea_popescu: honeymoon over huh
artifexd: About an hour ago someone dumped 20k+ shares and emptied the orderbook from .004 to .003.
benkay: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00586004 / 0.00626295 / 0.00662900 (296 shares, 1.85383408 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.00557609 / 0.00900001 (29516 shares, 164.58401921 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.00553635 / 0.00900001 (61796 shares, 342.12401921 BTC)
mircea_popescu: artifexd news or something ?
artifexd: Not that I know. I've looked and didn't find anything.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.0008672 = 10.0162 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: cbg resigned i see
mircea_popescu: turks claim they're coming to terms with the greeks
mircea_popescu: what sort of a twisted joke is having your central bank run by a guy whose name is panicos
chetty_: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/10/the-messages-on-these-condom-wrappers-were-deemed-too-sexually-suggestive-to-hand-out-to-high-schoolers/
ozbot: The Messages on These Condom Wrappers Were Deemed Too Sexually Suggestive to Hand Out to High School
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 277 @ 0.00357557 = 0.9904 BTC [+] {7}
mircea_popescu: chetty_ lmao, what are they supposed to say, "o hi, this is just a baloon" ?
chetty_: makes as much sense as most things - which is to say - none
ozbot: Twitter / momsmt: Free condoms @bostonschools ...
mircea_popescu: why am i reading in the blaze about what some nobody said ?
mircea_popescu: is it because the blaze is trying to fish for imaginary controversy ?
Duffer1: that's kinda their thing
benkay: i met an ex-teacher while drinking beers after closing a deal the other day. he mentioned teaching sex-ed in an abstinence-only situation, and when I asked him "so how do you actually teach them?!" he said something along the lines of "well the smart ones can read between the lines"
benkay: this dodges entirely the question of how to educate the idiots who aren't reading, much less inferring.
Duffer1: it's glen becks bullshit factory
mircea_popescu: sex ed should basically consist of assisted fucking. "now all the girls take off their clothes. give your panties to the boy you'd like to fuck you"
mircea_popescu: "now all the boys take off their clothes. put your condom on like so"
mircea_popescu: "now go fuck"
benkay: but the feeeewiiiings
mircea_popescu: "don't push that way, more like this. there you go"
benkay: "i didn't get any panties!"
mircea_popescu: yeah, then mock all the teens that finish too early.
mircea_popescu: benkay sluts obviously don't need further training.
chetty_: well all that time in sex ed they dont have to bother teaching hard stuff like maths
mircea_popescu: if kids got laid once a week mandatorily maths'd prolly be a lot easier to teach
benkay: fr srs
mircea_popescu: oh, now i see the wisdom of what you said.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the kids that don't get any panties for five weeks running are going to be gelded
mircea_popescu: for free, sponsored by obamacare
Duffer1: obamacare is best care, comrade
benkay: what, me wisdom?
mircea_popescu: then all the testicles thus obtained could be canned into pet food, shipped to stray dog shelters
benkay: <Duffer1> obamacare is best care, comrade << nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.093389 = 0.4669 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0008672 = 17.6475 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.13311598 = 0.2662 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: fun fact : the cypriot government pre-collapse ? communist.
ozbot: Reduce the Workweek to 30 Hours - NYTimes.com
BingoBoingo: Oh, some miner finally sold some ATC
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, do you readily know of a problem mersene might have as a crypto prng?
ozbot: Twitter / DorianSatoshi: @TheBitcoinWife Can you tell ...
nubbins`: more testicles means more iron
nubbins`: those "ONE" brand condoms have tons of different designs, it's their thing
nubbins`: also impossibly difficult to open iirc
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yeah i was thinking, who the fuck makes round wrappers
mircea_popescu: the corners are there for a god damned purpose
benkay: what, you need a perforated strip too?!
nubbins`: "maybe if we package these tennis balls in a large sphere"
nubbins`: benkay, go buy a pack of ONE condoms and open 'em all on your first try
nubbins`: i dare ya
kakobrekla: now we came to the roots of round corner hate.
mircea_popescu: benkay for instance i hate the durex brand because not only they fit much too tightly, but uber-retarded wrapping.
mircea_popescu: magnums are comfortable, the box is non-plastic and perforated, the individual wrappers tear easily.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla hahaha i guess you caught me
nubbins`: the ones with the roomy tips are nice
ozbot: Cornul abundentei. Sau ma rog… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
nubbins`: "The condoms should have had more realistic pictures on them. Such as a teenager laying in bed with a baby crying in the background and an alarm clock showing 2 am, or a teenager with a paper hat on cooking fries."
mircea_popescu: wait, why are these realistic for condoms ?
nubbins`: "get a job or you'll be asking people if they want fries with that" turns into "what are you, too good for a fast food job?" and people wonder why the kids are confused
mircea_popescu: those should be the illustration on absent condoms
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: because your sin pokes holes in them
mircea_popescu: in who, in the girls ?
asciilifeform: the illustration on absent condoms << 'sound of one hand clapping'
nubbins`: the condoms!
mircea_popescu: im confused.
nubbins`: "Try these sayings: 1 Corinthians 6:18 Leviticus 18:22 Colossians 3:5"
nubbins`: i actually won't try those sayings
mircea_popescu: ;;google Corinthians 6:18
gribble: 1 Corinthians 6:18 - Flee from sexual immorality. All other - Bible ...: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6:18>; 1 Corinthians 6:18 ESV - Flee from sexual immorality. Every - Bible ...: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A18&version=ESV>; 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 - Flee from sexual immorality. All other - Bible ...: (1 more message)
nubbins`: well, that's short and sweet
nubbins`: ;;google leviticus 18:22
mircea_popescu: what's this, "How to be fucktarded, a guide" ?
gribble: Leviticus 18:22 - “'Do not have sexual relations with - Bible Gateway: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18:22>; Leviticus 18:22 KJV - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as - Bible ...: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18%3A22&version=KJV>; Leviticus 18:22 "'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one ...: (1 more message)
nubbins`: ah, heh
mircea_popescu: well... this leviticus is one i could get behind
nubbins`: afaik leviticus 18:22 instructs you not to fuck men in their pussies
nubbins`: odd advice to give
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37600 @ 0.000871 = 32.7496 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: ;;google colossians 3:5
gribble: Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your ...: <http://biblehub.com/colossians/3-5.htm>; Colossians 3:5 KJV - Mortify therefore your members which - Bible ...: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3:5&version=KJV>; Colossians 3:5 - Put to death, therefore, whatever - Bible Gateway: <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+3:5>
nubbins`: "Why doesn’t the school just go for broke and provide kids with alcohol and copies of the Kama Sutra"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00087206 = 4.3603 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: the bible forbids it
nubbins`: you have to fuck him in the ass
mircea_popescu: imo it's her
nubbins`: ya think?
mircea_popescu: tis possible.
asciilifeform: what illustration on absent parachutes !
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform parasuta is, of course, yet another way to say whore in romanian.
asciilifeform: ahahah!
mircea_popescu: along with firecracker, rag and roadster
nubbins`: ah, internet says f2m
mircea_popescu: ;;ud f2m
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=f2m | f2m. 1. Technically stands for Female to Male AKA "FTM". 2. Describes someone born w/ a Female physical form who feels they are actually male & were born ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: f2m
mircea_popescu: if anyone is looking for a crazy hard exercise of romanian translation, i dare recomend http://trilema.com/2009/nevoi/
mircea_popescu: i'd rate it postdoctoral level.
nubbins`: bed time
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00368999 = 0.214 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Can this $70 dongle stem the epidemic of password breaches? | Ars Technica
Mats_cd03: isnt this inferior compared to yubikey
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.615 = 1.23 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.61971428 = 4.338 BTC [+] {4}
Mats_cd03: idk much about this crypto shit except that the dongle seems to have more entropy? feel free to chime in if you know anything
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00375499 = 0.1502 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.62798165 = 3.7679 BTC [+] {5}
benkay: amazed it took so long.
benkay: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62999 = 1.26 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.635 = 2.54 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.641 = 2.564 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00087427 = 14.6877 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.643 = 1.929 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.642 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.6468857 = 4.5282 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.65000545 = 7.1501 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00381932 = 0.1146 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00087514 = 13.3896 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.00599112 = 0.1737 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00360003 = 0.288 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00599709 = 1.1994 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.647 = 3.235 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 79 @ 0.00355001 = 0.2805 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 151 @ 0.00350793 = 0.5297 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 104 @ 0.006 = 0.624 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 129 @ 0.00609897 = 0.7868 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 130 @ 0.0061 = 0.793 BTC [+]
antephialtic: Mircea_Popescu: you should get Marc Andreessen to invest in bitbet (https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/443260220379115520)
benkay: what funding does bitbet need, antephialtic?
antephialtic: probably not any. But Andreessen would probably purchase some shares
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22843 @ 0.00087412 = 19.9675 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: mpex is right over there
benkay: and coinbr just a hop skip and a jump from that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00604 = 0.151 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02295749 = 0.1377 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0061 = 0.122 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 600 @ 0.00613973 = 3.6838 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 281 @ 0.0062858 = 1.7663 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 210 @ 0.00633876 = 1.3311 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1294 @ 0.00645587 = 8.3539 BTC [+] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 302 @ 0.00649911 = 1.9627 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.0065 = 0.1885 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00087087 = 14.3258 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00345 = 1.035 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 24 @ 0.0425605 = 1.0215 BTC [-] {22}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.635 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22450 @ 0.00086933 = 19.5165 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0933898 = 0.1868 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.13311598 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0422875 = 0.1692 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0933898 = 0.3736 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.13311598 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6600 @ 0.00086958 = 5.7392 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.042 = 0.126 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0933898 = 0.4669 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.13311598 = 0.6656 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: That he doesn't know of BitBet does not bode well for them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00087445 = 16.4397 BTC [+] {2}
Apocalyptic: hum, so Openex appears to be insolvent and is closing, guy is confused about what to do with outstanding balances
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00087137 = 13.1577 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: Glad you made that exchange
BingoBoingo: Or... ATC would have gotten completely goxxed
Apocalyptic: looks like it, hope the ATC guys didn't have much ATC there
BingoBoingo: I moved out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.0008698 = 4.0011 BTC [-] {2}
KRS-One: .bait
KRS-One: .bait
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29313 @ 0.0008755 = 25.6635 BTC [+] {4}
cazalla: kuka robot lost
cazalla: looks more like an advertisement than a match though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.10228999 = 0.2046 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0681003 = 0.2043 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06800001 = 0.204 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1500 @ 0.00600322 = 9.0048 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22737 @ 0.00087534 = 19.9026 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19646 @ 0.00087631 = 17.216 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00087467 = 6.1227 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00087263 = 2.3561 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00087099 = 11.3229 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00087407 = 2.797 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 290007 | Current Difficulty: 3.81572379881463E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 290303 | Next Difficulty In: 296 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 22 hours, 44 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 4193481648.71 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.90003
ozbot: 3.816 billion | Next Diff in 296 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.8229% in 1d 20h 15m 59s
ozbot: BitBet - BTC difficulty to increase by less than 10%
dub switches chains ;)
jurov: ;;prevdiffchange
gribble: 21.92473
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 775 @ 0.00018 = 0.1395 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.005868 = 0.2934 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04217 = 0.2109 BTC [+]
jurov bribes dub to stay off btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 46 @ 0.06726552 = 3.0942 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00087099 = 13.7181 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00087099 = 6.6631 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00086905 = 17.6852 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18790 @ 0.00087093 = 16.3648 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00087093 = 16.6348 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15601 @ 0.00086875 = 13.5534 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00087101 = 8.1004 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.09339 = 0.3736 BTC [+]
punkman1: "The 21-hour battle for B-R5RB resulted in more than 11 trillion ISK in damage, all thanks to a lapsed bill by one very important user in the EVE Online universe."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00086833 = 2.7787 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21830 @ 0.00087376 = 19.0742 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18500 @ 0.00086766 = 16.0517 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16050 @ 0.00087089 = 13.9778 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 576 @ 0.00354027 = 2.0392 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 155 @ 0.003534 = 0.5478 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.071704 = 0.8604 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00369998 = 0.333 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 34 @ 0.0064877 = 0.2206 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Twitter / Bitcoin: Are you a bitcoin investor? ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00369998 = 0.37 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 90 @ 0.0064 = 0.576 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00086747 = 7.8072 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.64 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell antephialtic https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/443355527364739072 yet something tells me he's no different from all the other bitcoin noobs in imagining he knows better and etc bla bla yadda yadda
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: 11 trn isk ~= 1k btc irc
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 11*10**12 / 30*10**9
gribble: 366666666666666688512
mircea_popescu: haha nanotube why does gribble mess up ?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 11*(10**12) / 30*(10**9)
gribble: 366666666666666688512
mircea_popescu: ;;calc (11*(10**12)) / (30*(10**9))
gribble: 366.666666667
mircea_popescu: nm, it's not gribble it's me.
mircea_popescu: anyway, ~350 btc worth of isk ships and whatnot.
moiety: mew :)
moiety: or ʍǝɯ mircea_popescu!
mircea_popescu: let the permanent record reflect that kuka is a piece of shit scam rather than a robot manufacturer, and that they made a bunch of fake news which resulted in http://bitbet.us/bet/760/kuka-table-tennis-robot-to-beat-human/ having to be cancelled.
mircea_popescu: never buy anything from these fuckwits, they don't deserve to survive.
nubbins`: OH FUCK THIS IS A PERMANENT RECORD
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.0064 = 0.128 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ten years later, multi-billion dollar business doesn't understand for the life of it why it can't sell anything anymore.
mircea_popescu: does more social media bs, buys more deadmedia advertising, nothing
mircea_popescu: eventually goes away.
mircea_popescu: at least cisco knew what hit it.
nubbins`: i prefer the term antisocial media for trees/teevees
mircea_popescu: asocial i guess
nubbins`: that works
cazalla: i don't know whether to feel stupid for being duped by kuka or whether i should've known better
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9527 @ 0.00087208 = 8.3083 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.065201 = 0.1304 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood. they seemed reasonably sane to begin with, german robotics maker with 1 bn in revenue worldwide
mircea_popescu: i closed the internal investigation without prejudice.
ozbot: Average student debt difficult to pay off, delays life milestones - Canada - CBC News
nubbins`: "Verge originally intended to become a teacher, but changed her mind after one year at Memorial University. She spent the next two years at Nova Scotia Community College completing a photography program, hoping to become a photojournalist."
nubbins`: no fucking shit she can't pay off her student loans
nubbins`: "Verge dicked around for three years on borrowed money at an average cost of $24/day"
TomServo: Verge?!
nubbins`: "Verge's husband is currently pursuing a masters in history at Saint Mary's University in Halifax and hopes to continue into a PhD program. "
nubbins`: groan
nubbins`: yep, that'll bring in the bucks
mircea_popescu: $24 ? that's not that bad is it ?
mircea_popescu: i think i spend that much on stockings
nubbins`: sure, but you make money
nubbins`: "If she could go back to her senior year of high school, Verge would make different choices, namely being more certain of what she wanted to study before spending $8,000 on a year's worth of university tuition, books and living costs."
Neil: Yeah that kuka thing was a letdown. I was looking forward to having sthg interesting to watch when I got back home.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00087208 = 7.7615 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 41 @ 0.06470776 = 2.653 BTC [-] {11}
Neil: Clearly kuka not even close to being able to cut the mustard
mircea_popescu: nubbins` "If she could go back to her senior year of high school, Verge would make different choices, like hooking up with guys that beat her into sense and spend $24 a day on stockings alone rather than the current looser she's hitched with"
moiety: so is the new production place in china a bunch of BS then?
moiety: re kuka**
mircea_popescu: moiety depends what the ad copywriter was eating that day
moiety: fuck
moiety: asshats everywhere
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 70 @ 0.00639999 = 0.448 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: " It took two people to hold the camera, probably because it was heavy as fuck."
asciilifeform: 'graduated in 2008 with about $25,000 of debt — just about the national average. More than five years later, she has only managed to pay back about $2,000.' << where did this kid work - Butugychag?
Neil: mircea_popescu: I don't remember you taking a 1% fee on such cancellations before on Bitbet.
ozbot: Gen Y struggles in expensive housing, rental market - Canada - CBC News
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.61425728 = 4.2998 BTC [-] {5}
moiety: asciilifeform: here, you don't have to pay back your student loans until you earn over X amount
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 31 @ 0.06519316 = 2.021 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2757 @ 0.00086817 = 2.3935 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: wonder how many of these folks would theoretically accept a russian passport and guaranteed metallurgical work in norilsk.
asciilifeform: they'd get $LOAN richer just by sending the creditors to pound sand up their arses.
asciilifeform: and the 'college' racket could finally implode.
moiety: it becomes a lifestyle for some doing degree after degree, never actually working
cazalla: moiety: are you from australia?
moiety: Scotland, Uk cazalla
cazalla: they do that here in australia, a lot of graduates take jobs that pay under the threshold as to avoid paying back the debt
moiety: yep same, all the time. that or they just sign up for another degree
moiety: i know one guy who did Politics, then Mental Health Nursing and now plans on a Philosophy degree
moiety: actually writes an anti-psychiatry anarchist blog
cazalla: i'm a high school drop out, my brother has a degree (medicinal chemistry)
cazalla: he makes sammages at subway heh
moiety: i would bite your hand off to go to uni ... but in my own time. worked since 14. it doesn't make you less of a person at all, they just like you to think so
moiety: lol @ the contradiction of medicinal and subway :)
mircea_popescu: Neil i don't think it akes any fee does it ?
cazalla: tx fee i think he means
ozbot: Nigel Thew: Brighton worker sacked after throwing drunk passenger off bus in Saltdean, East Sussex |
mircea_popescu: " Police in Danville are investigating the theft of more than $15,000 worth of manhole covers that were stolen from various parts of the city"
mircea_popescu: almost enough to pay for college
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 31 @ 0.08550831 = 2.6508 BTC [-] {9}
CheckDavid: cazalla: if you get a shitty job you don't have to pay debt?
cazalla: shipped to china like all the copper that gets knocked off i guess?
moiety: i know a guy who was trying to flirt with a girl a few years ago by giving her some bitcoins.... she contacted him when they hit $1k to tell him, she paid for her college tuition with them :)
cazalla: CheckDavid: you are only required to begin paying the debt once you earn over x amount
asciilifeform: 'Having bits of the landscape disappear can be a rude surprise. One summer I arrived in St. Petersburg and found that a new scourge had descended on the land while I was gone: a lot of manhole covers were mysteriously missing. Nobody knew where they went or who profited from their removal. One guess was that the municipal workers, who hadn't been paid in months, took them home with them, to be returned once the
asciilifeform: y got paid. They did eventually reappear, so there may be some merit to this theory. With the gaping manholes positioned throughout the city like so many anteater traps for cars, you had the choice of driving either very slowly and carefully, or very fast, and betting your life on the proper functioning of the shock absorbers.'
asciilifeform: - orlov's 'post-soviet lessons for post-american century'
CheckDavid: cazalla: who issues the loan? Government?
cazalla: CheckDavid: yes
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid they're sort-of govt backed in most places.
asciilifeform: it's all fun'n'games until the boat girls mount DSHKs and hoist the black flag.
moiety: cazalla: i think you guys have certain degrees that never get fees at all, like nursing, right? bursary instead to get people to do it
CheckDavid: I see. Because I guess banks wouldn't care that much
moiety: we do here
asciilifeform: fits great. don't need a gigantic tub
cazalla: moiety: not sure if any are exempt but you can go back again and again to rack up more debt
mircea_popescu: Neil no 1% was charged (site does indicate that, but it's erroneous). the tx is 3a01762308fc1c9b36478d3bb4c3198eb69f3c29ab24af2e4520727c7fa9c79c3a01762308fc1c9b36478d3bb4c3198eb69f3c29ab24af2e4520727c7fa9c79c once it propagates you can check it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that looks like it could propel the boat, in a spot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11586 @ 0.00087081 = 10.0892 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: it never ceases to amaze me how the 'excess people' make so little trouble, 'going gently into the good night'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14764 @ 0.00086781 = 12.8123 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: it's like "it never ceases to amaze me how the impotent never rape anyone". well of course not. if they could they wouldn't be impotent.
asciilifeform: they can't all be impotent
mircea_popescu: well no, but that's besides the point : they are all excess, as per your definition.
asciilifeform: if starving boat grls, where the hell are the jacqueries, i ask.
asciilifeform: where are the mass migrations
mircea_popescu: curretnly the mass migrations are from sane places to idiotic places,
mircea_popescu: which is actually the greatest boon on the developing world : all those mexicans, arabs etc leeching the welfare states aren't doing it so they may be us or eu citizens etc
mircea_popescu: they're doing it because a fool and his resources are soon partying, and once the party's over they'll just go back home and start their own renaissances.
asciilifeform: i meant - of the boatgirls.
mircea_popescu: what's a boat girl ?
asciilifeform: (linked from earlier piece)
ThickAsThieves: “Zero transaction fees is the future,” Li said. According to him, the freemium business model is the new norm of the twenty-first century, and no industry, not even financial services, is safe from its disruption.
mircea_popescu: haha she's a boat alright.
asciilifeform: big empty space in the middle for DSHK.
chetty_: http://rt.com/news/ukraine-mp-abducted-threatened-882/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your chick's not putting a machine gun in the middle for the same reason she's not getting laid
mircea_popescu: too much hassle.
asciilifeform: betcha she gets laid plenty.
chetty_: I'll hang you by the balls and have you f***ed' – Ukrainian presidential hopeful abducts pro-Russian MP
mircea_popescu: lol nice
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform deal.
mircea_popescu: how we check ?
chetty_: I gave up reading about it, its all disinfo anyway, I just liked that headline
ThickAsThieves: so these bigfoot guys wanna promote bitcoin on the streets or whatever, and this is the brochure they come up with... http://bitcoinbigfoot.com/showcasing-plan-b-brochure-mock/
ThickAsThieves: 2/3 is just logos
ThickAsThieves: then 10 or so bullet points, and more logos
ThickAsThieves: fucking idiots
mircea_popescu: comments are better
mircea_popescu: "Love what your doing but I see you do not send to the UK. My company are about to leash a few ATMs on the UK and would love to get a hold of perhaps your ai or pdf so I could print some off to give to everyone who is attending our launch in Feb."
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's tons of these outfits consisting of basically one guy and his adobe illustrator pretending to be in some form mass movements.
ThickAsThieves: BitPremier is one of the logos
mircea_popescu: i'd love nothing more than contact with a large club of street people, but these muppets ain't it.
mircea_popescu: gimme detroit's grafitti artist club.
mircea_popescu: gimme the seattle bladers association
mircea_popescu: gimme something i can use
chetty_: well tons of single guys does sorta make a mass ....something
mircea_popescu: a two tone brochure i can have made in a half hour
asciilifeform: mass in the physical sense, perhaps
mircea_popescu: chetty_ tons of single guys with delusions of leadership, self-importance and whatever else makes maybe a ton of twitter accounts
mircea_popescu: but not hing useful.
chetty_: well mass ----something could wll be mass pile o shit
asciilifeform: 1) mass 2) ??? 3) lenin 4) profit!1!!1
asciilifeform: (for the nitpickers, notice that i said 'profit!1!!1', not 'profit.')
cazalla: don't you mean profit!1!1!oneeleven!11
mircea_popescu: hi guise im eleven and what is this11
asciilifeform: at some point the lost souls will add up to a destructive mess, the question is when.
chetty_: yesterday
asciilifeform: festering != destructive
asciilifeform: these folks aren't disintegrating lepers, they're able-bodied creatures who could in principle create actual problems if they felt like it.
mircea_popescu: how do you know they will ?
mircea_popescu: no, they're disintegrating lepers.
asciilifeform: how do you know they will << hey don't look at me, i'm not their lenin. naturally i don't know. but historical parallels.
mircea_popescu: no such thing.
mircea_popescu: these people can't even say nigger.
asciilifeform: perhaps they could learn.
mircea_popescu: perhaps it'd cost more to learn than they're worth.
mircea_popescu: disintegrating lepers could also heal.
asciilifeform: surely that girl could learn to pull a trigger, for example.
asciilifeform: or at least service the fellow who does
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00086747 = 9.7157 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu would appear to be right, none of the traditional 'bubbling of rebellion' is happening, as far as i can see
asciilifeform: but i'm curious why.
mircea_popescu: no, she could not. how could she ?
chetty_: hahahaha:The municipal bond rating for Peoria has been downgraded
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00086747 = 6.9398 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 582 @ 0.0001845 = 0.1074 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.13311598 BTC [-]
nubbins`: asciilifeform: she defaulted on her federal loans and has her wages garnishes, that's why she's only paid back $2k in 5 years
nubbins`: $33/mo
ozbot: ATC – Altcoin | SHA-256 Coins
nubbins`: think about that -- paying off a $25,000 loan at $33/mo
nubbins`: hope the photography "course" was worth it ;p
nubbins`: TBH i don't think they should give loans for degrees/diplomas in navel gazing
nubbins`: you want a student loan to learn a skilled trade? sure, here ya go
nubbins`: you want one to get your PhD in history? get fucked
ninjashogun: nubbins`, how do you feel about a personal loan to develop a proprietary hardware tech past proof of concept stage?
nubbins`: less than enthusiastic
ninjashogun: (which is what I've been looking for 3-4 weeks since receiving angel demo invites)
ninjashogun: how come?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8200 @ 0.00086731 = 7.1119 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: because i have no reason to believe that you're capable of anything besides hanging around here and bumming for money
ninjashogun: it's the same thing - something marketable that needs something up-front. You can't just ask people to speculate, you should extend the possibility of a loan to cover information asymmetry and personal responsibiilty. I wouldn't be gamblign with otehr people's money
nubbins` yawns
nubbins`: at least you keep trying
ThickAsThieves: loans are generally something to be unenthusiastic about
ninjashogun: nubbins` - fair enough. I've personally developed the proof of concept using vision software as well as embedded electronics with an arduino
nubbins`: ;;gettrust ninjashogun
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nubbins` to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nubbins%60&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: never
ThickAsThieves: loans for convenience are okay i guess
nubbins`: ninjashogun: you need to realize that what you're saying means nothing to anyone here
ThickAsThieves: but loans on hopes and dreams, not so much
nubbins`: bitcoin is littered with the corpses of people who had better ideas and more resources than you
ninjashogun: nubbins`, that's not true. I guarantee 100% that there are people int his channel who know what vision algorithms are, and what electronics engineering and embedded programmigng are. 100% guaranteed.
nubbins`: no, you misunderstand
ninjashogun: (those are just two examples of the tech I've used.)
nubbins`: it's the fact that YOU are saying it
nubbins`: you're a nobody
nubbins`: and generally, adults don't give free money to nobodies with "ideas"
ninjashogun: nubbins`, but nubbins doesn't mean anything to me either.
nubbins`: okay, so?
nubbins`: i'm not asking you for a wheelbarrow of cash
ThickAsThieves: he didnt ask for monet
ninjashogun: It's not an "idea', first of all, I'm working on a company that was founded mroe than a year ago and has assigned IP as well as fullz developed prototypes that prove concept, using vision, some robotics elements, arduino, etc.
nubbins`: blah blah blah
nubbins`: same thing every time
nubbins`: people tell you precisely why they will never, ever give you money
nubbins`: and you try to argue that it's in their best interest to do so
ninjashogun: No, I do not argue it's in anyone's best interest, absolutely not.
nubbins`: it's like a child convincing dad that a can of frosting is a good idea for lunch
nubbins`: why are you wasting your time asking over and over?
ThickAsThieves: ninja how old are you
ninjashogun: I am looking for something similar to what I found before, which is someone who is interested in exploring the idea with me and would do so without necessarily having any big personal interest in it, other than obviously not losing money on it.
nubbins`: you won't find what you're looking for here
nubbins`: i guarantee it
ThickAsThieves: why did the last people leave?
ninjashogun: So, it was not people, it was one person, and he didn't leave but continues to express 'definite' interest (we've prepared loan paperwork, etc). I!ve pressed several times for a firm closure and he's repeated definite interest (instead of taking the chance to say, look, it's not that interesting to him)
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.MAR] 340 @ 0.0029461 = 1.0017 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: The main reason I ask here is because it is people who are technical (almost by definition), have early vision and interest (almost by definition) and in many cases have enough funds that they can consider helping me on such a basis. Some people ahve been interested but the amount is too larger for them, I understand but that is nto the kind of person I'm lookiing for.
nubbins` yawns again
ThickAsThieves: just stop
nubbins`: this, a thousand times this
mircea_popescu: Georgia Becomes First State in History to Pass the Convention of States Application
nubbins`: which georgia?
ozbot: Georgia Becomes First State in History to Pass the Convention of States Application | Convention of
bitcoinpete: Markus Ortman, "COO of Bitcoin", explains all to Conan:
ozbot: Bitcoin's COO Explains What Bitcoin Is @ TeamCoco.com
nubbins`: ah, interesting
Diablo-D3: who the fuck is markus ortman
ThickAsThieves: what is this convention?
Diablo-D3: never heard of him
ThickAsThieves: it's a joke
bitcoinpete: Diablo-D3: he's made-up
Diablo-D3: I dont find jokes funny.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: the dissolution begins
Diablo-D3: Lets light this guy on fire for being a heretic.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9032 @ 0.00086713 = 7.8319 BTC [-] {2}
bitcoinpete: and howdy
ThickAsThieves: yeah the coco thing isnt funny
mircea_popescu: <Diablo-D3> I dont find jokes funny. << lol
ozbot: The ballad of “Bitcoin Jesus”: The tech millionaire who fears for his life - Salon.com
ThickAsThieves: see that's funny
ThickAsThieves: "I have sworn not to write the name of the island where Roger Ver is currently residing, the reason being that he fears for his life."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00086745 = 15.2671 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: "Satoshi Nakamoto — who, it turns out, is an elderly Japanese man by the same name, "
ThickAsThieves: “The U.S. is making it extremely difficult for me to stop being American.”
bitcoinpete: that's actually way funnier
ThickAsThieves: "The discontentment is also there when he talks about the first time he was arrested, at 18"
bitcoinpete: conan was only indicative of where the middle is, or isn't
ninjashogun: "Bitcoin was not created by Satashi Nakamoto, but by another man of the same name."
mircea_popescu: which jesus is this one, #6 ?
ThickAsThieves: Jesus Ver
nubbins`: jesus 0
mircea_popescu: black males can be single ?
mircea_popescu: i thought that was genetically impossible
nubbins`: jesus was single?
nubbins` raises eyebrow
jurov: ssh spiral
ozbot: Meet the Gay Black Republican Selling Guns Online for Bitcoin
nubbins`: i know all those words, but...
nubbins` scratches head
nubbins`: ...i didn't think you could put them together like that
bitcoinpete: "Bitcoin enthusiasts don’t generally spend any time thinking about privilege. But greater computer literacy among the poor and easier-to-use interfaces, along with addressing tech’s gender problems should be a goal we all strive toward."
bitcoinpete: "t’s not essential, or possible, that the privilege crowd fully understand bitcoin or that the bitcoin crowd fully understand privilege. What would be very helpful, however, is for both parties to admit the vast sums which comprise what they do not know."
mircea_popescu: wait what.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is like distilled privilege what the fuck is she on about.
nubbins`: one of the nice things about privilege is that you don't need to be aware of it
mircea_popescu: but im keenly aware of it.
mircea_popescu: that's the point of fucking bitcoin : to put privilege above the reach of the unprivileged.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.00620739 = 0.1428 BTC [-] {5}
nubbins`: ehhh, it's not privilege unless you were born into it
bitcoinpete: and there's more. it's fuckin privilege day
nubbins`: you saw something that was a good idea and you bought in. that's not privilege, it's sense
bitcoinpete: "You would have to be living under a rock feasting solely on anti-Bitcoin propaganda to think that Bitcoin is only about making money and oppressing the lesser privileged."
mircea_popescu: lol look at that, she has no comments section.
mircea_popescu: i was gonna let her know we were just talking about her.
bitcoinpete: "If we really want perspective on privilege, the global implications of an easy to use payment system must be taken into account for its efficiency in providing aid directly to people all over the world—especially disadvantaged women, many of which must raise families on low resources while their partner finds work in more economically healthy areas."
mircea_popescu: they're beyond clueless.
mircea_popescu: but ah well. most idiots manage to become useful in some manner.
bitcoinpete: "Bitcoin cannot possibly be limited to only the privileged as anyone (even people in Kenya) can gain access to it through standard cell phones, a tool which the developing world has increasing access to."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 3 @ 0.052 = 0.156 BTC [+]
bitcoinpete: and they keep going...
mircea_popescu: yeah, totally.
mircea_popescu: the ease of access is totally not a tool of privilege.
mircea_popescu: like say, the tv. anyone even in kenya can get a tv.
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, the tv is highly democratic :D
bitcoinpete: tv=voting
ozbot: This is what it's like to be a woman at a Bitcoin meetup - Arianna Simpson
mike_c: being a guy is so much easier.
mircea_popescu: i left her a comment
mircea_popescu: shitty blog interface tho
mike_c: yeah, wordpress. what can you do ;)
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, my wp doesn't suck
mike_c: you gotta upgrade to get the suck
ozbot: Call for acid-bath stem-cell paper to be retracted : Nature News Blog
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.629999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah srsly.
mircea_popescu: sooo... the rift people added a new profession, which is cool.
mircea_popescu: however to rank it up you need noob materials, which stressed the ufck out of the market.
mircea_popescu: noobs being noobs are too stupid to beeline for the generators and feed th hunger of the uberrich privileged maxlvl players
chetty_: http://www.finra.org/Investors/ProtectYourself/InvestorAlerts/FraudsAndScams/P456458?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fb
ozbot: Investor Alert - Bitcoin: More than a Bit Risky - FINRA
mircea_popescu: and so here i am, lvl 60, one hitting lvl 6 mobs with my DOT
Neil: mircea_popescu: Great. I'd have thought (apart from signatures) the site it automated, including transaction generation. I guess someone corrected it?
mircea_popescu: Neil it's not automated.
mircea_popescu: it's highly human supervised.
ThickAsThieves: from finra "If no one accepts bitcoins, bitcoins will become worthless."
Neil: lol
ThickAsThieves: "digital wallets can be hacked"
ThickAsThieves: that's really the extent of that comment too
Neil: I'll always accept bitcoin, if only to bet on bitbet
ThickAsThieves: "Purchases can be refunded, but that depends solely on the willingness of the establishment to do so."
ThickAsThieves: and the law?
ThickAsThieves: they act like everything is so absolute
Neil: Bitbet seems better arb-ed than 9 months ago.
mike_c: for example?
Neil: Well there was easy money before in the difficulty bets; no longer the case.
mike_c: TaT stopped donating
mircea_popescu: Neil tbh it always was pretty well arbed, in the sense that i occasionally try taking one side and i have yet to come to a situation where i wasn't covered properly by the other side
mircea_popescu: even on obscure bets a la halep
mircea_popescu: it's just people are control freaks and want to MAKE SURE
Neil: Shitty turnouts like SDICE and Gox 1Mar wiped out my profits...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04265 = 0.1706 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so that prevents them from betting (like say http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/#c2574 )
mircea_popescu: in a sense bitbet acts like the exact oposite of the doctrine of gpg contracts
Neil: The sky-high BTC price bets are always interesting psychologically
mircea_popescu: in that it's quite safe to go "i bet x btc on this and expect the other side to work out the odds"
mircea_popescu: but i meant specifically the guy's concern re calculating final odds
Neil: Yes, to some extent the other side will come in to make up the odds (witness the recent CME bets) but there's still some friction. The large CME bets were ballsy and I guess should be worse than evens but an equal amount to the opening bet hasn't come in yet.
Neil: Perhaps my judgment of the odds is off.
mike_c: but.. why place a wager and then let someone else set the odds.
Neil: mike_c: coz you think you know better I suspect.
Neil: Actually the iron ore has more on the other side now. Hadn't noticed but that makes sense.
Neil: mike_c: Also the odds on both sides are somewhat random; it's not as if you can fix them given subsequent bettors
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00364 = 0.3276 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: Neil it's months out tho
mircea_popescu: it only matters whst the pool is at end
Neil: If BTC > $10k resolves as yes it'll be the biggest fiat bet yet
Neil: yup
mircea_popescu: nah, there was a 2k pool one when btc was 1.2k
mircea_popescu: so that was like 2.5mn almost
Neil: I wonder how long until a bitbet user suffers a MITM attack on the send-to address display
mike_c: ^ i have wondered about that.
ozbot: Bitcoin T-Shirt | Bitcoin Shirts & Tees - Bitcoin Pride Bitcoin Miner - Featured - T-Shirts
Neil: I'd feel much better if that bit were https
ThickAsThieves: someone stole graphics
mircea_popescu: Neil it's discussed periodically. you can always test before you send
mircea_popescu: as in, send a few bitcents first before your bet
Neil: You have a point for the bigger bets. But hardly ideal. Why expose your users?
artifexd: TAT: My wife bought that shirt for me. So many custom tshirt sites print on shitty quality shirts. This one was a good quality tshirt.
mircea_popescu: Neil what, i'm not telling them to be mitm'd.
mike_c: https doesn't cure all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 18 @ 0.0427 = 0.7686 BTC [+]
Neil: https makes it *much* harder unless I'm missing something.
mike_c: you are. i believe mitm is the most popular way to attack https.
diametric: yeah the effort required would make it not really worth it.
mircea_popescu: diametric arguable, because false reliance would sweeten the pot.
diametric: satoshi dice would be much easier to MITM
mircea_popescu: on a naked system like bitbet people know what the risks are
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00086667 = 5.1567 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: on a pseudosecure system like https people misrepresent them
diametric: mircea_popescu: thats true
Neil: mircea_popescu: So you have no intention of improving the address thing, even if it starts to be taken advantage of?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00373 = 0.1492 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: Neil once it gets taken advantage of it'll be changed
mircea_popescu: maybe add signed addresses
Neil: Hmm.
diametric: Satoshi dice would be very easy to attack since it's blocked in the US, which causes most US visitors to use TOR, which is easy to MITM especially since Satoshi Dice doesn't use https.
mircea_popescu: not that anyone'll bother checking anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13184 @ 0.00086842 = 11.4492 BTC [+]
diametric: Then you simply need to create the 1DICE vantiy addresses and MITM replace them on load
Neil: I would if sending > 5 BTC
diametric: Hell, you could even implement the proper gambling and make people think they're just losing all the time.
mircea_popescu: Neil what's wrong with just sending a few bitcents ?
mircea_popescu: you can literally verify it this way.
mircea_popescu: if you were mitm'd either it doesn't show
mircea_popescu: or if the gy is really evil and it does show, it won't show as per your txid
Neil: Well, the main site could suffer the MITM too. Harder again, yes.
mircea_popescu: so check off a diff connection what.
Neil: I could fly to Romania too!
mircea_popescu: send 0.05, go to library, load page, come back send your 5btc or w/e
mircea_popescu: what, just becayse better internet here?
mike_c: it's closer to the server, harder to get mitm'd
mircea_popescu: not really that much closer i dont think
Neil: mircea_popescu: Visit kako, place the bet in person over a beer of course
mircea_popescu: anyway : all it takes for stupid "solutions" to take over the world is for people who know better to use them anwyay.
mircea_popescu: i will never, under any circumstances and for any reason use https as if it were secure.
mircea_popescu: i don't care that it's "somewhat better".
mircea_popescu: either it solves the problem and then i buy it, or else it does not and then i do not buy it.
mircea_popescu: i don't buy "sorta" solutions.
mircea_popescu: god forbid i ever get cancer, the doctors will have a fucking handful with me
mircea_popescu: "so does this cure it ? " "well... maybe..." "fu."
jurov: forget https. most sites use *email* as if it was secure
Neil: mircea_popescu: What happens to MPEX if you're run over by a bus?
jurov: Neil i'll hire mercenaries and go to timisoara to take it over
jurov: :DDDD
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00600016 = 1.8 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i suppose goldman sachs' ll run it.
Neil: I worked there once.
mike_c: mitm ssl:
ozbot: Moxie Marlinspike >> Software >> sslsniff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2272 @ 0.00086549 = 1.9664 BTC [-]
diametric: mike_c: you'll note that to deploy that successfully, and not make the browser shit red warnings everywhere, you'll need a forged cert.
jurov: diametric or unpatched apple/linux machine
mircea_popescu: forged certs are a matter of course
mircea_popescu: jut impersonate cloudflare
bitcoinpete: Speaking of cloudflare
ozbot: Twitter / bitcoinpete: Check out @blockchain being ...
mike_c: cloudflare is breaking the internet one stupid site at a time.
ozbot: 3.816 billion | Next Diff in 247 blocks | Estimated Change: 10.3029% in 1d 12h 40m 57s
mircea_popescu: it's like... between cloudflare, what's that fucktardec omments thing
mircea_popescu: web is slowly dieing the death of a thousand idiots.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00086532 = 24.6616 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00364 = 0.233 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: lmao check out this guy
ozbot: [Direct] BTC Growth - Forex Volatility Focus
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.44287593 BTC to 3`707 shares, 65899 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07419943 = 1.113 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.99778525 BTC to 13`595 shares, 14695 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17666 @ 0.00086842 = 15.3415 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.00600001 = 0.204 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 46 @ 0.00600001 = 0.276 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: disqus is still a thing?
thestringpuller: i thought by now it went the way of geocities
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.041789 = 0.3761 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: no because chicks with college debt and no prospects keep adding it to their blogs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0415 = 0.1245 BTC [-] {3}
dexX7: good thing that i use ghostery + adblock
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.04125 = 0.1238 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.041 = 0.205 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: i wish there were a one stop shop where i could find a veterinarian, a therapist, and a hedge fund manager.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00373314 = 0.1419 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.006 = 1.2 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.0037651 = 0.1694 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 26 @ 0.00388252 = 0.1009 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 57 @ 0.00389978 = 0.2223 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.04057142 = 0.284 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: "Line to GET IN the security line is wrapped around the check-in area of the Austin airport. "
mircea_popescu: maybe they should hire sony
deadweasel: DrGregMullface was so funny that I'm now getting 502 for the forums.
dexX7: haha
dexX7: the forum is gettinmg 502 for more than a month now from time to time :S
dexX7: www.onename.io considers to add bitcointalk and wot
dexX7: kinda tells where those people came from
dexX7: or not came from
wao-ender: oh, namecoin project?
wao-ender: i'm totally supporting them
dexX7: it looks shiny
deadweasel: wow, takes 9 developers to display a QR code
Apocalyptic: hum nobody squatted 'mircea_popescu' yet
dexX7: somewhere in the reddit comments they said there will be some kind of authentification. like: you claim you are mp and insert his twitter handle, but to proof it, you'd need to post a verification tweet
mircea_popescu: meh there's in principle 5k "services" like that and no barrier to entry
mircea_popescu: tomorrow it'll be 1name.cx or w/e
Apocalyptic: <dexX7> somewhere in the reddit comments they said there will be some kind of authentification // well if someone regged the u/* entry i wonder how can they claim it back
Apocalyptic: it's not like they can enforce anything at this point
wao-ender: v0v, i'm there! so social
dexX7: i have no idea how it works under the hood
wao-ender: it's namespace u/ in namecoin?
Apocalyptic: lol, someone just regged it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8592 @ 0.00086842 = 7.4615 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 59 @ 0.006 = 0.354 BTC [-] {2}
dexX7: yesterday someone said this is trash. any insight why?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 47 @ 0.00587222 = 0.276 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 94 @ 0.00576181 = 0.5416 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.040115 = 0.8023 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63055 = 1.2611 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 144 @ 0.00389978 = 0.5616 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.06700013 = 0.469 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06700013 = 0.335 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.00599998 = 0.15 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 20 @ 0.0405 = 0.81 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06700006 = 0.335 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0405 = 0.324 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06700007 = 0.201 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0405625 = 0.1623 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00086527 = 13.5847 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63 = 1.26 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.006 = 1.2 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20950 @ 0.0008682 = 18.1888 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla how about linking bitbet bet income/outbound to blockr ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.041 = 0.123 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00086927 = 17.2985 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17350 @ 0.00087025 = 15.0988 BTC [+]
benkay: this morning at the café, some nice lady is standing next to the air pot, idling, hoping for attention
benkay: i go for coffe, she informs me that this air pot is empty
benkay: so what is to be done but put the empty one on the counter and pop the cherry on the new one
benkay: why can nobody do anything for themselves?
mike_c: what the hell is an air pot?
mike_c: ah. i did for myself and googled
mike_c: hey benkay, did you ever end up making that rent short happen?
benkay: nope
benkay: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00570000 / 0.00595958 / 0.00654999 (457 shares, 2.72352803 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.00558308 / 0.00900001 (28720 shares, 160.34603001 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.00554085 / 0.00900001 (58409 shares, 323.63553001 BTC)
benkay: cuz i r lazy
benkay: and fukken
benkay: busy
mike_c: it popped up, but is sliding back.
benkay: still noodling on a 6 month put basically
mike_c: meh, just buy more btc. it would be slightly better.
benkay: yeah.
benkay: i've already decided on that strategy. i think rent plays are a red herring.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1001 @ 0.00017531 = 0.1755 BTC [-] {13}
benkay: plus, what do i look like, a trader?!
mike_c: wheeler & dealer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3999 @ 0.0001705 = 0.6818 BTC [-] {5}
benkay: so when do the big markets start to price in the taper?
benkay: when does the taper even kick in?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00389978 = 0.195 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 29 @ 0.0744241 = 2.1583 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13014 @ 0.00086487 = 11.2554 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7178 @ 0.00086389 = 6.201 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 449 @ 0.006 = 2.694 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: there's no taper.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 340 @ 0.00391923 = 1.3325 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00396315 = 1.5853 BTC [+] {11}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5684 @ 0.00086371 = 4.9093 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00086634 = 10.8293 BTC [+]
dexX7: hey guise what do you think about a blockchain postcard service? users submit a message which is then posted via op_return. i bet some devs would love the idea! :D
benkay: ipo it to the moon
mircea_popescu: i thought this existed.
ozbot: The peeconomy pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11725 @ 0.00086955 = 10.1955 BTC [+] {2}
dexX7: brb creating cryptostocks ipo account
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04075 = 0.2038 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0409 = 0.2045 BTC [+]
dexX7: "the ugly who became a writer instead of cum sucking slut"?
mircea_popescu: well... "writer"
mircea_popescu: she's a sorta leah, and as we all know it sucks to be leah
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.613802 = 6.138 BTC [-] {6}
dexX7: well, i can't say that anything i ever wrote lead to a tv serie
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 98 @ 0.59465477 = 58.2762 BTC [-] {30}
the20year2: Are there any bitcoin businesses that are using GAAP-approved accounting?
mircea_popescu: if i ever watched tv perhaps that'd sound like a lot more.
dexX7: don't, it's usually not worth
mircea_popescu: the20year2 the bitcoin standard is the an0.
mircea_popescu: even simplyfied as it is, very few actually use it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 92 @ 0.57480927 = 52.8825 BTC [-] {24}
the20year2: When did the bitcoin foundation approve an0?
dexX7: since when does create the foundation standards?
TomServo ducks and covers
dexX7: ^ :D
mircea_popescu: the who ?
the20year2: Isn't the client maintained by the foundation?
the20year2: So, what's special about your accounting format?
mircea_popescu: that it's the bitcoin standard.
mircea_popescu: what's so special about the gaap ?
the20year2: It's accepted by a country with a 17t economy plus other economies resulting over 25t of gdp
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 24 @ 0.57 = 13.68 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: an0 is accepted by the exchange doing 90%+ of all bitcoin financials.
the20year2: Is it in use outside of mpex?
mircea_popescu: nobody cares what the scammers do.
the20year2: So all companies outside of mpoe is a scammer?
mircea_popescu: are. yes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.57 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.0059217 = 0.5922 BTC [-] {6}
the20year2: And how is neobee scamming?
dexX7: or rent?
mircea_popescu: not publishing financial results.
the20year2: Are an0 financials audited by outside organizations?
mircea_popescu: there aren't such organisations yet.
nubbins` chuckles
the20year2: So, financial reports are prepared by the company who issues them?
mircea_popescu: that's generally the way it goes, yes.
mircea_popescu: artifexd yea
the20year2: So, what prevents the organization from lying?
mircea_popescu: the20year2 bitcoin is not about preventing anyone from lying.
nubbins`: the correct question is "how is lying identified"
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is about the conseuqences of having lied.
joecool: consequences will never be the same
nubbins`: the answer is left as an exercise to the reader
dexX7: havelock down, forums extremely slow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.00087059 = 5.7894 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: has bitbet ever been ddos'd?
mircea_popescu: the20year2 this dovetails nicely into your earlier curiosities re listing on mpex w/o an account. itstands to reason that large financial institutions that have their own account can keep their accounting straight ;
mircea_popescu: whereas small players will have to retain the help of an investment banker, in which case they get auditing as a packaged deal anyway
mircea_popescu: mike_c well people try occasionally.
the20year2: Maybe so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23504 @ 0.00086725 = 20.3838 BTC [-]
mike_c: i take that to mean they aren' very successful
mircea_popescu: not so far.
mircea_popescu: didja see the thing where they tried to hijack the dns via social engineering ?
mike_c: interesting, no.
ozbot: O hai let me verify your identity pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mike_c: wait, wasn't that how mpex got down? somebody impersonated you to a proxy server admin?
mircea_popescu: yes, a year ago.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00590256 = 1.7708 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04050001 = 0.2025 BTC [-]
mike_c: hehe. cuddle-puddle.
joecool: i've seen more than a few domains get jacked from social engineering, the best are ones that clone the site, set up shop somewhere without many laws (romania?), then monetize the stolen site
joecool: and even if the domain was with a US registrar it usually takes a month or two to go through the processes to get it back
joecool: and a lot of money
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04034999 = 0.2017 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: someone would have just manipulated the mpex trades
mircea_popescu: they need to cease this id-by-email bs.
thestringpuller: and made it look like real trades
mircea_popescu: it's about as bad as "cc over the phone"
thestringpuller: and profit on people trading on bad info
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it got caught pretty quick.
joecool: mircea_popescu: cc over the phone is less bad in my opinion
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.0401 = 0.2807 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.09298999 = 0.186 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: joecool why ?
joecool: mircea_popescu: it's fairly easily reversible, just claim the charges were fraud
joecool: mircea_popescu: not like a CC carries any sort of personal info other than name and address which are often already public record
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.09339 = 0.5603 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well sure, reversible.
mircea_popescu: the fact you can reverse it doesn't mean it didn't fail thjo
thestringpuller: yea but the attacker wouldn't have profited directly on stealing people's money, mpex key is still guarded by naked lady ninja assassins
joecool: thestringpuller: that would depend on whether the attacker actually received goods, if they ran a merchant account they'd have the money clawed back
mircea_popescu: joecool they do triangles.
thestringpuller: i was talking more about an attacker getting access to mpex key via the proxy
thestringpuller: but I don't think the proxy decrypts trades just announces
joecool: mircea_popescu: skimmers are a bigger threat if you can duplicate the magstripe, but most non-US countries figured that out and went chip and pin
mircea_popescu: not what i meant. what i meant was, fraudster sells the merchandise to ignorant buyer, gets irreversible payment from him
joecool: ie. if i walk into a store with a stolen magstripe you don't know i have, i can purchase goods and even if there's a chargeback, it only claws back from the store those goods were bought at
mircea_popescu: you can reverse all you want, it;s not really helping much
joecool: oh sure yeah if you pull the old paypal-style MITM that's burned so many people in OTC
nubbins`: even places that use chip-and-pin will fallback to magstripe if there's a problem with the chip
mircea_popescu: fiat world security is appalling
nubbins`: grab a chip and pin card, rewrite the stripe, smash the chip with a ball-peen hammer
nubbins`: a friend of mine had "PLEASE ASK FOR PHOTO ID" on the signature panel of his credit card some years ago
joecool: true heh, in canada i use magstripe and it throws off all the clerks
nubbins`: he says "watch this"
joecool: cause only one or two US issuers have chip and pin as an option
nubbins`: pays for item in store, cashier looks at back, says "heh" and swipes the card
joecool: nubbins`: i've tested this theory, writing various things like "I STOLE THIS CARD" on the signature pad
dexX7: nubbins`: "please ask for photo id" - that's an awesome move
joecool: only two types of places ever gave me shit
joecool: 1. best buy
nubbins`: great idea but you might as well say "FREE BLOWJOB PLZ"
joecool: 2. stores around ghetto'd aeras
joecool: *areas
nubbins`: for all the good it does
the20year2: I guess it wouldn't be too difficult to publish an0 + gaap reports
mircea_popescu: the blowjob you might get
nubbins`: but for free?
nubbins`: "sorry my break isn't for another half hour"
mircea_popescu: the20year2 i'll bet you you'll be giving up on the gaap style within 12 reporting periods
mircea_popescu: 10x the effort, hardly any extra benefit delivered
mircea_popescu: but by all means, try the experiment
the20year2: If we use GAAP it makes it easier to transition to a public corp
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with keeping multiple styles anyway
mircea_popescu: most large corps do both gaap and ifra anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00087063 = 4.7885 BTC [+]
the20year2: an0 looks pretty simple, and my idea was to publish something non-gaap anyways since i don't think we can count bitcoin in that, and we'll always have btc balances onhand, so I planned on issuing non-gaap reports at the same time the gaap ones were done (TSLA does that)
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: MPOE will still pay dividends from new sign up fees no?
thestringpuller: dumb question
thestringpuller: disregard
the20year2: Although in the case of tesla, they issued the non-gaap a few hours before gaap and gained an extra $50/share
mircea_popescu: and the sec never investigated
mircea_popescu: cause they were too busy confiscating the money of traders who had bought options on berkshire
the20year2: Yeah , i don't know though if it's illegal to issue non-gaap reports
mircea_popescu: but look here : some people bought options, in switzerland. they had their accounts frozen and they were required to... prove!!! they didn't trade on insider info.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, tesla creates random info disparities, nobody cares.
mircea_popescu: quite scandalous, at least to my eye.
the20year2: how big was the loss/gain on the berkshire stuff?
mircea_popescu: like 20x, a few million
the20year2: tesla's was way more than a few million
mircea_popescu: kinda my point.
mircea_popescu: that's the link
ozbot: SEC.gov | SEC Freezes Assets in Swiss-Based Account Used in Suspected Insider Trading Ahead of Hein
mircea_popescu: so what i want to know is, how many accounts that traded on the pre-gaap release were frozen by the sexc
mircea_popescu: if they have the time to freeze 100k worth of options.
the20year2: usgov has alot behind tesla's success
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02114995 = 0.1057 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: basically we're seeing the 1990s of the russian republic all over again.
mircea_popescu: here are the companies the government supports, here are the people it doesn't support, "rule of law" stuff.
the20year2: Just about
mircea_popescu: so you know, where's the list of washington, dc people who bought tsla pre-release.
mircea_popescu: that's what an investigative finacial journo that's looking to jump out of a window would pursue.
nubbins`: or in front of a subway!
mircea_popescu: easier to "find" satoshi i guess.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.04005262 = 0.761 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 15 @ 0.02034704 = 0.3052 BTC [-] {4}
mike_c: what. the. fuck. "all ur assets belong to us". and now they have to *prove* their innocence?
mircea_popescu: why's Plaxant sound familiar to me.
dexX7: here is a general warning: mp cooperates with the sec, so be careful what you tell here
mircea_popescu: mike_c yeah, they weren't on the list of people who are allowed to make moneyz.
mircea_popescu: dexX7 aren;t you in the us ?
dexX7: hehe no
Plaxant: mircea_popescu I don't know
mircea_popescu: anyway, no, we're not there yet. currently the sec is trying to get its shit together to be able to cooperate with mp.
mike_c: what a joke. "Plaintiff Securities and Exchange Commission ("Commission"), for its Complaint against
mike_c: defendants Certain Unknown Traders"
mircea_popescu: mike_c put that in perspective. the bezzle is the bezzle. people who are authorised to handle the imaginary portion of the monetary base may do X Y Z types of things. people who are not, however, may not.
mircea_popescu: a trillion dollars is not much loss for usg ineptitude. a hundred grand is too much gain for real world people,
mircea_popescu: for the directly obvious reason that the trilion in question doesn't really exist.
mike_c: the asset seizure laws are what get me.. they are just unbelievable.
mircea_popescu: the system is desperate to acquire as much as possible of the real portion of the monetary base.
mircea_popescu: that's why they'll gladly give you "401k" in exchange for your paycheck.
mircea_popescu: the 401k is b*i type.
mircea_popescu: your paycheck is a type
dexX7: no gribble preview? "NYDFS ISSUES PUBLIC ORDER ON VIRTUAL CURRENCY EXCHANGES"
mircea_popescu: it's just an "order" to consider proposals.
mircea_popescu: dunno who wants to make a ny exchange, anyway.
dexX7: the second market/circle guys afaik
mircea_popescu: but that's at least part of why the "someone will actually manage to spring up somewhere to allow us to trade in confidence" part is in the last mpoe statement.
mircea_popescu: yeah, maybe.
dexX7: yeah well. is this a bad thing?
mircea_popescu: i don't see why it would be a bad thing.
mircea_popescu: people who like it can move to ny, people who don't like it can move out of ny.
dexX7: yup
mircea_popescu: it's unlikely to buck the us emigration trend, but who knows.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.04 = 0.48 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 125 @ 0.00324 = 0.405 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lemme spam you all :
mircea_popescu: Stock Splits and Stock Activity
mircea_popescu: We often are asked why Berkshire does not split its stock.
mircea_popescu: The assumption behind this question usually appears to be that a
mircea_popescu: split would be a pro-shareholder action. We disagree. Let me
mircea_popescu: tell you why.
mircea_popescu: One of our goals is to have Berkshire Hathaway stock sell at
mircea_popescu: a price rationally related to its intrinsic business value. (But
mircea_popescu: note “rationally related”, not “identical”: if well-regarded
mircea_popescu: companies are generally selling in the market at large discounts
mircea_popescu: from value, Berkshire might well be priced similarly.) The key to
mircea_popescu: a rational stock price is rational shareholders, both current and
mircea_popescu: prospective.
mircea_popescu: If the holders of a company’s stock and/or the prospective
mircea_popescu: buyers attracted to it are prone to make irrational or emotion-
mircea_popescu: based decisions, some pretty silly stock prices are going to
mircea_popescu: appear periodically. Manic-depressive personalities produce
mircea_popescu: manic-depressive valuations. Such aberrations may help us in
mircea_popescu: buying and selling the stocks of other companies. But we think
mircea_popescu: it is in both your interest and ours to minimize their occurrence
mircea_popescu: in the market for Berkshire.
mircea_popescu: To obtain only high quality shareholders is no cinch. Mrs.
mircea_popescu: Astor could select her 400, but anyone can buy any stock.
mircea_popescu: Entering members of a shareholder “club” cannot be screened for
mircea_popescu: intellectual capacity, emotional stability, moral sensitivity or
mircea_popescu: acceptable dress. Shareholder eugenics, therefore, might appear
mircea_popescu: to be a hopeless undertaking.
mircea_popescu: In large part, however, we feel that high quality ownership can be attracted and maintained if we consistently communicate our business and ownership philosophy - along with no other conflicting messages - and then let self selection follow its course. For example, self selection will draw a far different crowd to a musical event advertised as an opera than one advertised as a rock concert even though anyon
mircea_popescu: e can buy a ticket to either.
mircea_popescu: Through our policies and communications - our “advertisements” - we try to attract investors who will understand our operations, attitudes and expectations. (And, fully as important, we try to dissuade those who won’t.) We want those who think of themselves as business owners and invest in companies with the intention of staying a long time. And, we want those who keep their eyes focused on business resul
mircea_popescu: ts, not market prices.
mircea_popescu: Investors possessing those characteristics are in a small minority, but we have an exceptional collection of them. I believe well over 90% - probably over 95% - of our shares are held by those who were shareholders of Berkshire or Blue Chip five years ago. And I would guess that over 95% of our shares are held by investors for whom the holding is at least double the size of their next largest. Among companies
mircea_popescu: with at least several thousand public shareholders and more than $1 billion of market value, we are almost certainly the leader in the degree to which our shareholders think and act like owners. Upgrading a shareholder group that possesses these characteristics is not easy.
mircea_popescu: Were we to split the stock or take other actions focusing on stock price rather than business value, we would attract an entering class of buyers inferior to the exiting class of sellers. At $1300, there are very few investors who can’t afford a Berkshire share. Would a potential one-share purchaser be better off if we split 100 for 1 so he could buy 100 shares? Those who think so and who would buy the stoc
mircea_popescu: k because of the split or in a
mircea_popescu: split or in anticipation of one would definitely downgrade the quality of our present shareholder group. (Could we really improve our shareholder group by trading some of our present clear-thinking members for impressionable new ones who, preferring paper to value, feel wealthier with nine $10 bills than with one $100 bill?) People who buy for non-value reasons are likely to sell for non-value reasons. Their pre
mircea_popescu: sence in the picture will accentuate erratic price swings unrelated to underlying business developments.
mircea_popescu: apparently a smaller amt of phone number isn't better after all!
dub: is this some form of comedy?
mircea_popescu: it must be.
joecool: !rate mircea_popescu 1 seems legit
chatquack stands and claps
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2770 @ 0.0001799 = 0.4983 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the hate re finance industry continues, http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1983.html
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2753 @ 0.0008686 = 2.3913 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and to wash the horror of all that text,
ozbot: Bitcoin Foundation ramps up lobbying efforts with high-profile hires | SiliconBeat
mircea_popescu: lulzy : as it is downgraded to "one of the world’s leading advocacy groups for the cybercurrency," bitcoin foundation hires jim harper and some pr
bitcoinpete: In continuing our celebration of Privilege Day:
bitcoinpete: "Those in the 21st century who are most enamored of the word privilege—and often wield it as a bludgeon—make two mistakes. First, as Skwire shows us, they underestimate the complexity of power dynamics and social context. But they often take it a step further. In the name of reducing their newer, fuzzier kind of social privilege, they often advocate increases in the simple, old-fashioned, government-based variety."
ozbot: Check Your History : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education
bitcoinpete: More from another MK, Marcus instead of Lords
mircea_popescu: all this aside : nobody has so far explained what the problem is with privilege in the first place.
mircea_popescu: some people are better than others. intrinsically so. unequivocally so. what of it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16026 @ 0.0008686 = 13.9202 BTC [-]
bitcoinpete: I wish I had an answer
mircea_popescu: all these kids running around acting as if universal equality is somehow a fait accompli.
mircea_popescu: ridoinkulous.
bitcoinpete: it's not signed and sealed yet, gays can't marry everywhere and we don't have free govweed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 117 @ 0.00488 = 0.571 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "privilege" is in the same toolkit as "mean"
bitcoinpete: and we still have to share our privilege with africa
ThickAsThieves: a separation of logic and comfort
bitcoinpete: his will be dun
benkay: the20year2: your operation can't possibly file an0.
dub: they shared AIDS with us, its only fair
mircea_popescu: dub i thought the monkeys gave us aids
mircea_popescu: because privileged upper class british explorer people got bored playing the anthropologist
mike_c: it's not FAIR. that's what of it.
mike_c: re:privelege
dexX7: The stability and longevity of the virtual currency, which exists outside of government and bank regulation, has been in question ... yeah well, tells enough
dexX7: sometimes i wonder why such experts dare to think their contribution was asked for in the first place
mircea_popescu: hey, me too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00086686 = 26.6993 BTC [-] {3}
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72000 @ 0.00086569 = 62.3297 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 300 @ 0.00615994 = 1.848 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.62632993 = 1.879 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 343 @ 0.00615994 = 2.1129 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.628 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.00386884 = 0.1199 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.06800694 = 1.7002 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 21 @ 0.04378767 = 0.9195 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 22 @ 0.04300321 = 0.9461 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00615994 = 0.2464 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.618 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 7 @ 0.04300333 = 0.301 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.00086916 = 1.2168 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00086777 = 6.7252 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.04 = 0.12 BTC [-]
jurov: i did not get the overstock spam, should i fear i'll be left behind by impending rapture?
mircea_popescu: as you can see
mircea_popescu: we are being left behind
jurov: Patrick Byrne: Bitcoin Messiah, CEO of Overstock, Scourge of Wall Street
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.04 = 0.12 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: another one ?
jurov: trying to reinvent austro-hungarian nomenclature and failing badly
mircea_popescu: cause you didn't use enough dashes.
mircea_popescu: you gotta dash the audience
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00086777 = 4.7727 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: His Most Eminent Serenicy, Patrick Byrne, Messiah-CEO of the Bitcoin Realms
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo win
BingoBoingo: Eh, this web thing isn't for security
mircea_popescu: also Chris Morrow is pretty hawt
jurov: "Go forth in search of fun" translates into "Merg sa-si caute pizde de scos la raport", rly?
kakobrekla: runnin low on coin.
jurov: nice css
mircea_popescu: jurov well that'd be untranslatable.
kakobrekla: yes, lel, the guy making the shot mentioned i should look at css.
mircea_popescu: but literally it'd be "they go looking for cunts to make fall-in", as in the military thing.
mircea_popescu: fall in for inspection
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is that what they say when an acct is unverified ? or is it what they say when they're out of btc ?
kakobrekla: i dunno what difference does it make, its btc we are talking bout
mircea_popescu: if you have some bitcoin it's not your bitcoin
mircea_popescu: obamastamp
kakobrekla: also it IS verified.
benkay: mystical coins
mircea_popescu: well that's not so good.
Bunnyh: i got that too a few weeks ago. i got an email too, which explained that withdrawal was blocked because of attempted phishing attacks, and i had to contact support
Bunnyh: took a few days to clear that out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00086799 = 15.6238 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: Bunnyh so did you get your bitcoin back eventually ?
kakobrekla: phishing attacks cause they were hacked which they didnt admit?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla stop slandering you soul you.
Bunnyh: yes, after they finally cleared the block the withdraw was pretty fast
mircea_popescu: bitstamp is like a respectable business and everything
mircea_popescu: they just don't know what they're doing is all
Bunnyh: first support response was the same message, even with the "Please contact support part", that was a bit funnyt
Bunnyh: i had only 6 BTC there so unless everyones withdraws were blocked at that time, i can't imagine it was any kind of liquidity problem
thestringpuller: ;;google tony hawk twitter hunt
gribble: Tony Hawk Twitter Hunt 2014: <http://www.tonyhawk.com/thth/>; Tony Hawk (tonyhawk) on Twitter: <https://twitter.com/tonyhawk>; Tony Hawk wants you to find a prize via Twitter – USATODAY.com: <http://www.usatoday.com/sports/action/story/2012-04-14/tony-hawk-twitter-hunt-to-kick-off/54272918/1>
mircea_popescu: Bunnyh unless they have a fractional reserve problem and then they do rolling window withdrawals
mircea_popescu: trying to delay everyone a set interval.
mircea_popescu: (this is useful for the fractional reserve business not exactly because it improves cash flow, which it does not, but much moire because it allwos it to "see into the future", as it were, ie to know ahead of time what financial resources it will need down the road)
dexX7: they don't have one and were audited
dexX7: but nevertheless i think they were attacked, the number of reports of spam to bitstamp users is very, very high
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00086656 = 9.8788 BTC [-]
Bunnyh: from what i can tell it looks like bitstamp isn't using any spf rules on their domain, wouldn't that block many phishing attempts?
mike_c: spf + domainkeys help.
kakobrekla: www.coindesk.com/new-york-accepting-applications-digital-currency-exchanges/
kakobrekla: here we go :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00086401 = 12.7873 BTC [-] {2}
dub: to da moon like doge?
kakobrekla: like aurora
nubbins`: i hope ninjashogun comes back later and pesters us into giving him money
kakobrekla: in april we should do an astronaut dresscode or something
nubbins`: finally, an excuse to wear my spacesuit
FabianB: ;;bc,stat
gribble: Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
FabianB: [As
FabianB: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 290098 | Current Difficulty: 3.81572379881463E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 290303 | Next Difficulty In: 205 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 3 hours, 57 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 4206454280.77 | Estimated Percent Change: 10.24001
FabianB: ;;calc 3.81572379881463E9/10000.0
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
FabianB: ;;calc 4206454280.77/10000.0
gribble: 420645.428077
mircea_popescu: dexX7 audited ? what are you talking about ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you're late :D
dexX7: sec
dexX7: www.coindesk.com/bitstamp-audit-proves-behind-147m-mystery-bitcoin-wallet/
dexX7: inb4 ".co domain, not legit"
FabianB: !t m X.IDIFF.MAR
assbot: [MPEX:X.IDIFF.MAR] 1D: 0.00290837 / 0.00294764 / 0.003 (350 shares, 1.03 BTC), 7D: 0.00290837 / 0.00294764 / 0.003 (350 shares, 1.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00290837 / 0.00294764 / 0.003 (350 shares, 1.03 BTC)
kakobrekla: >>Kodrič also projected this process would “raise the bar” for other exchanges to follow suit.
mircea_popescu: so coindesk links a pdf published on bitstamp;'s website
kakobrekla: careful there, one day he wont be able to reach it. the bar i mean
mircea_popescu: i think perhaps you're unfamiliar with what an audit is ?
dexX7: well, it would certainly be nice, if it were firestartr.co who hosted the file and even more, if it were gpg signed, that of course
mircea_popescu: and ideally, if it WEREN'T firestarter.co
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 26 @ 0.0039 = 0.1014 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but some actual auditor with an actual track record of auditing.
kakobrekla: fuck i just found out that bitcoin does indeed pay interests
mircea_popescu: random website with a domains by proxy registration and a prepackaged css suite slapped in fails to impress.
kakobrekla: you just need to have a large enough wallet and spammer idiots will sends satoshis to your balance along with a blockchain info note
dub: no virgins for you
kakobrekla: infinite money
dub: derka derka
mircea_popescu: Registered OnMay 15, 2013 wait even better
dexX7: Firestartr's team has been behind €6.7Bn in transactions over the last 20 years; a dozen trade sales and IPOs and started eight companies from scratch covering brands like Skype, Orchestream and Geneva. Our current community of ventures includes names like Rightster, Teleportd, Badoo, Pusher, Fanatix and UC4 Software.
mircea_popescu: "team". whio ? they have a website which consists of... "we"
mircea_popescu: badoo ?!
mircea_popescu: what the fuck parallel reality is this.
dexX7: huh?
mircea_popescu: Badoo is a dating-focused social networking service, founded in 2006, which uses deceptive tactics to attract new users
mircea_popescu: a history of fraudulent behaviour, and random cardboard web ventures
mircea_popescu: just want you want out of an "auditor"
mircea_popescu: and if they list badoo, which is owned and operated by the russian... shall we not call it online fraud division, but merely refer to it as "Андрей Оганджанянц".
mircea_popescu: i would like to know why other stuff like spylog or begun aren't listed there
mircea_popescu: or w/e, mamba.ru
dexX7: so what are you saying? do you doubt that the result of the "audit" is legit and bitstamp is running a fractional reserve?
mircea_popescu: i am saying that either the firestartr thing is an outright fraud,
mircea_popescu: or else it's a deceptive front for a well known group of grayhats
mircea_popescu: to put it mildly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that aside, i appreciate the humour of jess powell signing statements,
mircea_popescu: seeing how kraken managed to fuck up deposit addresses creating a mess worth 100s of btc, that they lied about.
mircea_popescu: someone should tell cary it's a bad idea to CONTINUE signing in the company of such doofusry.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 56 @ 0.02012201 = 1.1268 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.04 = 0.2 BTC [-]
nubbins`: kakobrekla: enjoy sochi!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 172 @ 0.0061 = 1.0492 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: dexX7 did all that coalesce into a point for you ?
dexX7: sure
dexX7: <dexX7> inb4 ".co domain, not legit"
dexX7: :D
nubbins`: bit of a long shot, but do any of you guys have casascius coins?
dexX7: no :(
nubbins`: i'm trying to track down a brass 2011 series-2
Duffer1: i ish
mircea_popescu: dexX7 ok, let's go through it slower.
nubbins`: so fuckin hard to find
dexX7: no
moiety: ok. i woke up. i have no idea wtf ive been thinking for the past ....months. *new leaf*
mircea_popescu: so, bitstamp is this bitcoin exchange. people have been havng their doubts about it for a while. bitstamp came up with this theory whereby it's been audited.
nubbins`: people are all hung up on 2011 "error coins" (series-1), oblivious to the fact that the series-2 2011s are so much more rare
dexX7: i agree and i expected something such a reaction. you don't need to convince me or something
dexX7: -something
mircea_popescu: i'd like to lay the thing out so it can be followed.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.0059034 = 0.6199 BTC [-] {7}
dexX7: well then, why not :)
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Is that ninjashogun restaurant guy still asking for money because some mystery man in #dogecoin left him hanging on hit 1337 hardware project
mircea_popescu: so, this purported audit is in very poor form, for a myriad of reasons, such as for instance it being published by the audited entity rather than by the auditor.
BingoBoingo is catching up on logs
mircea_popescu: more importantly, the purported auditor does not substantially exist. it consists of a recently registered, domain-by-proxy website, upon which some random copy has been plastered.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: yeah, you tell him that there's no way in hell and that he's wasting his time, and he tries to argue that it's worth his time and it's totally a possibility
mircea_popescu: this copy fails the form test, and more importantly makes some claims, which would seem to be false.
mircea_popescu: specifically, their claim as to be behind badoo is immediately suspect, seeing how a) badoo is not particularly a respectable venture and b) it is run by a certain group of russian folk, well known to be disreputable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00086353 = 4.3608 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 19 @ 0.01940161 = 0.3686 BTC [-] {3}
moiety: BingoBoingo: did he interview everyone via pm, like me?
mircea_popescu: also important, that same group of russian folk run a number of other ventures, which are inexplicably absent from the firestartr claims,
BingoBoingo: Well, when ButtStamp dies this fall, I reckon people outside the WoT will largely be outside of BTC forever.
BingoBoingo: moiety: Indeed he did it seems
mircea_popescu: whereas skype, claimed by firestartr, is obviously not theirs to claim.
mircea_popescu: these facts allow two constructions : either firestartr is simply lying, and has no relation to badoo any more than it has to skype
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.0059 = 0.2242 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: basically some kid just put random names on a website
mircea_popescu: or else, it is in fact related, and for whatever reason the respective disreputable russian group does not wish to admit to it. so it's more like a front.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.601 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: these considerations sink the entire thing, either way. either way they've lied, which means they can't audit.
mircea_popescu: make sense now ?
dexX7: yes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.601 = 1.202 BTC [-]
nubbins`: bingo, lel
BingoBoingo: Well, bitcoin. It's hard to tell Buttstamp knew what an audit was, other than having had one seemed like a good thing.
BingoBoingo: Then they forget audit is a term of art
mircea_popescu: good, cause on re-read the first verion seemed to me to be making little sense if at all.
BingoBoingo: And were in no way capable of having an actual audit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.09319999 = 0.2796 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well for what it's worth they seem to more or less have moved a bunch of coins in november
mircea_popescu: tho i don't seem to find any proper proof, like signatures.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to help dig that can't hurt.
mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/cpQEV86 holy shit, that's the end of it
mircea_popescu: ponzi advertising ?
moiety: THATS ^ what i said other day!!!
mircea_popescu: so hows your new leaf ?
moiety: i'm not sure how to start it i just want it. does that make any sense?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Ponzis buying ads on the forum openly is no new news.
mircea_popescu: news to me, sorry
mircea_popescu: moiety sure.
BingoBoingo: There was a thread in Meta, I'll dig it up
mircea_popescu: "Marc Andreessen favorited your Tweets 11h: Reply to @pmarca If your intel dept didn't stink, you'd know all about BitBet. http://bitbet.us/ "
mircea_popescu: somebody's getting screamed at today
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 75 @ 0.01769606 = 1.3272 BTC [-] {7}
moiety: hey i didn't know there was a thread! didn't they take enough crap regarding BFL ads?!?!
BingoBoingo: Maybe Marc Andressen needs an Intel department?
mircea_popescu: they have one
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe they need intel people for their intel department?
dexX7: 'nuff said :D
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo intel is hard.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It is indeed
moiety: also BingoBoingo re first comment in ponzi ad thread... theymos doesn't actually have legal responsibility in reality does he?
moiety: sounds like gum bumping to me
mircea_popescu: moiety it roughly depends where he lives.
BingoBoingo: moiety: Well the pirate case might touch on Thermos's responsibility as he said sure Pirate, you can start a thread, allegedly
benkay: moiety gum bumping?
dexX7: why the fuck should this be "illegal"?
dexX7: @ ads
BingoBoingo: benkay: It's when you take a bit of coke an touch it to your gums to see if it is coke or not
B007: mircea_popescu: your paywall on your blog is lel. and easy to get past
dexX7: if "investors" want to play ponzi games, why not?
mircea_popescu: dexX7 it's generally illegal to advertise illegal activities in many jurisdictions
dexX7: not like anyone made any effort to hide what's the website is about
mircea_popescu: which is why you don't see ads for hookers in your favbourite magazine
mircea_popescu: B007 the point isn't really to make it impossible to get past.
B007: ip based so no effort required
nubbins`: the point is to make it annoying enough to make you want to spend the dollar it takes to buy credits ;p
B007: new ssh tunnel takes me like 10 secs
nubbins`: congrats, where did i leave my gold stars...
mircea_popescu: 10 secs are, for most people in the civilised world, worth more than the respective satoshis.
B007: it'd take far more time to accually pay
B007: for me anyway
mircea_popescu: you pay for your ips don't you ?
B007: nope
mircea_popescu: well then you're not in target anyway.
nubbins`: free ips
B007: well one of them yes
B007: and then there is tor
nubbins`: i used to be with this ISP and if you connected a switch to your dsl modem, they'd give a public ip to every connected machine
nubbins`: for free
nubbins`: minor oversight ;p
B007: nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 38 @ 0.00307552 = 0.1169 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: was nice at the time
B007: what ISP?
nubbins`: couldn't give any less fucks these days
nubbins`: a local subsidiary of bell that you've never heard of
nubbins`: this was back before wireless routers were a common thing
dexX7: nubbins`> the point is to make it annoying enough to make you want to spend the dollar it takes to buy credits ;p < flip the statement: it's more comfortable to buy than to leech. kinda nice approach btw.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1830 @ 0.00017111 = 0.3131 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00086341 = 13.9009 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.0061 = 1.22 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.61 = 1.22 BTC [+]
B007: why is it more comfortable to buy than to leech?
MAKABEakira: would have ff a lot of wtf if i found trilema 6 months ago instead of last month. btc infospace is a formidable fog of war for newbs
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira this is true.
Duffer1: welcome to the club makabe
mircea_popescu: kinda why i encourage people to blog and so forth, make good info a little more accessible.
mircea_popescu: i mean some people are just deliberately being stupid, but in many more cases people just don't have the info, at all.
MAKABEakira: no lack of content, but quality content has evolved some rather effective parasitic mimics
mircea_popescu: aptly put.
moiety: mircea_popescu: how to prove a publisher knew something was illegal when they advertised it though?
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira what do you do irl ?
MAKABEakira: mostly watching, sometimes producing
mircea_popescu: moiety "should have known", "reasonable person standard", "duty of care" etc etc. the jurisprudence is taller than you,
mircea_popescu: o wait, you ever read my variety speak article ?
MAKABEakira: are you, you irl?
dexX7: B007: well i once paid a tiny amount and can enjoy trilema probably for lifetime. that's comfort vs. "need to reset my ip now and then"
mircea_popescu: what do you mean am i me me
MAKABEakira: i assume so, but. mimcs cc.
moiety nods - fe
MAKABEakira: is your name actually mircea p
B007: yes
MAKABEakira: i assume so but not sure if you have 'fans'
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: He's not the Mircea Popescu that does pottery if that is your question
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira a yes, it is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 298 @ 0.00266378 = 0.7938 BTC [-] {20}
MAKABEakira: ah ok.. brb, rl intrudes irl
mircea_popescu: it is a reasonably common name, so there's a dozen or so other people by the same name
MAKABEakira: and no, haven't had the plesh
moiety: aw fuck so no chance of vases in here... bye!
ozbot: Mircea Popescu Exhibition History - Artist Website
moiety: why on earth is that artists exhibitions list not in chronological order? site almost gave me ocd
mircea_popescu: by the way, for whoever was wtfing about all the nude shots :
ozbot: Phototours-Ukraine - Ukrainian models and photography workshops
moiety: oh ignore ^ its hideously labelled instead
mircea_popescu: there's actually people who make it their business to organise a "photographic vacation"
moiety: they have a whole nude in public section! love it!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 490 @ 0.00378959 = 1.8569 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.61 = 1.83 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00086308 = 2.3735 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00086275 = 17.0825 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 16770 @ 0.0001519 = 2.5474 BTC [-] {13}
Duffer1: Max Keiser ‏@maxkeiser 9h
Duffer1: When it comes to markets and finance America is the 'short bus' that is slowing down global growth.
Duffer1: how long's it been since he's mentioned his coin...
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 he's forgotten all about it.
mircea_popescu: (both of em)
Duffer1: i doubt the suckers he scammed have forgotten
mircea_popescu: guy's target are people with short attention spans and limited memory space.
ozbot: Twitter / BBoingo: @ArsLaw @cfarivar And bitcoin ...
MAKABEakira: human memory is lossy compression
MAKABEakira: more limited you got, more loss you get
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: How lossy depends on the person
mircea_popescu: ther'es a space between lossy and lousy.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 76 @ 0.0039 = 0.2964 BTC [+]
MAKABEakira: is barry seibert really going ahead with this. last i heard it was a string of "we hope our partners" this and "if regulation" that, but so far, tumbleweeds
BingoBoingo: Who is Barry?
MAKABEakira: fred i mean
MAKABEakira: nm i shdnt type while on phone. Barry Silbert - SecondMarket
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: Well going ahead with what?
MAKABEakira: yet SM's exchange launch is taken as a foregone conclusion.
MAKABEakira: apologies i was under impression this was watercooler talk everywhere. don't shoot
Duffer1: you mean are they going ahead with SMs bitcoin exchange?
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: It is a talk of some kind. Just... when you name nobodies like Barrys and Larrys, you have to mention what they are trying to do.
MAKABEakira: Duffer1 yes. silbert put an embargo on all employee trading actvity after Count Goxula started his final bender. has not resumed since afaik
Duffer1: if they had traders on gox then i doubt they're fit to run an exchange of their own
Duffer1: nobody paying attention for more than a month would have known to not have $$ there
MAKABEakira: i am sure there were some. i think it's more of PR 'not it' move
BingoBoingo: SecondMarket would have been well advised to avoid Gox and consider http://mpex.co/faq.html#28
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, agreed :D but i think they are interested in making their own dogfood
Duffer1: i expect they'll still try to do an exchange, i have doubts about longevity of the venture though
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: What I mean is if you want to run something as a "Trust" for patrons, you do indeed need to dogfood it instead of depositing with Gox.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: Speaking of encouraging people to blog more , my latest, mostly a rehashing of asciilifeform on digital security: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/digital-delusions-of-digital-security/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00086258 = 12.5074 BTC [-] {3}
dexX7: the plans of the sm exchange go back to at least november. a "ny based exchange" was mentioned several times during the senate hearings and i guess that's no coincidence. also a bitlicense was promoted via the press at that time.
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira well ther'es the bitbet bet...
MAKABEakira: dexX7, good catch. i love the way they float the ideas until they coalesce into precipitate. makes the fanclub think that these things 'just appear' somehow
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo guy is reasonably well known. at least by btc standards at any rate.
mod6: cool summary, bitcoinpete
mircea_popescu: what i don't love is how many people need to be hurt into comprehending that they're better off following than trying to lead.
mircea_popescu: it's fucking arakis over here.
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: thank you :)
bitcoinpete: mod6: cheers
BingoBoingo: Well since the gox collapse last names with the Si* pattern of spelling are hard to track without pulling the redbook out of its safe place
Duffer1: dune reference high five?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 2394 @ 0.00052297 = 1.252 BTC [-] {14}
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, i am not up to speed on bitbet. are they buy|sell|trold?
mircea_popescu: they're kickass.
BingoBoingo: Bitbet is the best bet
grubles: mp runs / owns bitbet, correct?
MAKABEakira: hmm on there now. grep deadpool section
joecool: mircea_popescu: i never can tell if you're serious or trolling most of the time, imma roll with it though
mircea_popescu: grubles just half.
mircea_popescu: joecool i rarely troll.
joecool: how do i know you're not trolling right now?
grubles: who owns the other half, if I might ask?
joecool: oh well, i respect the mystery
joecool: bbl tacos
mircea_popescu: grubles kakobrekla
mircea_popescu: it's in the contract you know, http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET
grubles: didnt know ^_^
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, is hreniuc a common surname in RO
mircea_popescu: it's not even ro, sounds armenian
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, <spock brow> fascinating.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00086245 = 18.0252 BTC [-] {2}
MAKABEakira: according to all my armenian friends (and in LA, you cannot not have them) they are all the direct issue of the big G himself.
mircea_popescu: gingis khan ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, since we're discussing bitbet, i dunno if this was ever published, but
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1JuSXqRgzkHKAKyyXqqiSnPTUcMweGWHEN
mircea_popescu: that's the address paying the house bets, refunds, referrals.
MAKABEakira: yes none of that blue horde discount mongol crap.
dexX7: quick, get a blockchain.info tag
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60100103 BTC [-]
MAKABEakira: top bet 10k BTC. whats that, only $30/day rise every day till then, to win it.
mircea_popescu: more like 3k a day for a week straight.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu does the bet stand even w/out gox in the pix
mircea_popescu: yea see the mod comment
dexX7: snackman still posts comments on bb? :D
dexX7: ah no, it was an old one
mircea_popescu: nah i imagine he meanwhile got bored
mircea_popescu: "forever" at 19 means about three months
MAKABEakira: a sub 20 min bet time limit would be useful
mircea_popescu: no it wouldn't.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, TV
mircea_popescu: how the hell do you imagine an admin would get to it.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, since we have been doing some auditing on bitbet : the total BTC held in currently published addresses is 1778.18326295.
mircea_popescu: the total actual exposure bitbet has to bets (ie, stuff people bet that hasn't been yet resolved) is 414.9x
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: What sort of TV projects do you have experience working on if you care to answer?
mircea_popescu: this means that if you bet 1350 btc or less you are guaranteedly going to be paid out (should you win) with btc that are already held from old bets.
MAKABEakira: i am working with a team that produces a nationally syndicated game show on US TV
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira so why can't these be week bets like in sane land ?
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, live TV project needs live TV timeframes
BingoBoingo: You can answer this next question or decline it as you wish, but Jeopardy?
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, no sir. not *that* famous. but a hint. this show knocked wheel of fortune out of several markets
MAKABEakira: despite being a very different kind of show
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira can you guarantee minimums ?
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: Well, honesly this got less interesting when you said game show. Honestly I was hoping you'd say drama, like The Blacklist, Almost Human, Archer, Chozen, or Hannibal
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, not much you can do in drama with audience interaction, which is what we specilize in. standup project in works though.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, we wont do it if we cannot. i didn't even consider this idea till you brought up bitbet, but i like the prospects.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.0008648 = 33.1651 BTC [+] {3}
MAKABEakira: just blue skying atm
mircea_popescu: well, consider the business caseas first and foremost. bitbet takes 1%
mod6: lol @ Krieger using "crypto currencies" in a recent episode.
mircea_popescu: out of that 1% i'll have to justify someone sitting with eyes glued to your thing
mircea_popescu: it can be done, if you have the volume to justify it. otherwise, just so it exists generally, it's not gonna happen
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, we have a prod team who can has assigned a staff for that if it is externalizable
MAKABEakira: who can haz a cheeseburger
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: Well, the thing is... Audience interaction may be good for business but it is shit for art, even barely art art
BingoBoingo: mod6: Kenny Loggins was the greater part of that though.
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, not even pretending we are making art. can't all be freewheeling bitcoin barons alas
mod6: BingoBoingo: haha
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: Why a Baron. Maybe I'm a duke. Maybe I am far less. Perhaps just a footman, or even a much lesser hallboy.
BingoBoingo: mod6: I'm actually starting to like it's followup Chozen. Reminds me of Bitcointalk last summer.
Duffer1: blood everywhere?
BingoBoingo: Duffer1: So much blood
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira in principle it is externalisable, but in practice it's a problematic point, because if you scam the users on my trademark i'll have to kill you.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, we are pretty visible, kinda hard to run from the romanian a-team if we burn y'all
mircea_popescu: reasonably open to this in principle then.
mircea_popescu: do yourself a favour get in the wot today.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, i'll update you after i due dilly on this plan a bit.
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: who says he even hires Romanian. Trilema shows he tries to avoid it as much as possible
dexX7: MAKABEakira: what length has an episode of your show?
dexX7: because you may need to keep in mind that there are confirmation times
MAKABEakira: 22 min typically. sometimes we go over. and by sometimes i mean every time
gribble: Time since last block: 19 minutes and 21 seconds
mircea_popescu: that kinda killed your idea right there
Duffer1: ltc?
dexX7: :D
mircea_popescu: even with ltc.
dexX7: i heard dogecoin has a time between blocks of 1 min
BingoBoingo: LTC has 20 minute blocks too occasionally
BingoBoingo: dexX7: Dogecoin also has an arse full of dicks
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, wp. i didn't consider that at all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07499922 = 0.375 BTC [+]
dexX7: introduce some kind of "bitbet balance/wallet" which you can fund before a show to skip confirmation times
mircea_popescu: it could be done.
mircea_popescu: but then users would have to "log in" which... gpg ?
mike_c: cardanos for signing in :)
MAKABEakira: also, disclosure, this would not be for network tv, this is a smaller Bitcoin-land specific project which will be bcast on web only. its a warmup proj to test workable ideas for a later network show
mod6: BingoBoingo: I havent seen Chozen yet, its funny though huh?
mod6: haha, must be if it reminds you of btctawk.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, show staff wd log in on behalf of users most likely
BingoBoingo: mod6: It's definitely worth catching at least the pilot on the shady streaming site of your choice
Duffer1: never seen it either
mod6: BingoBoingo: ok, will check it out then. thx.
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira a better idea would perhaps be to re-structure the program so as to work better with bitcoin's weaknesses.
mircea_popescu: more productive, too, in that it builds you a moat.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Less Bitcoin's weaknesses then its necessary inefficiencies
mircea_popescu: but be that as it may : get in the wot.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelated. little bug in your site. '<<' ends up slicing off any text behind it.
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, k. good adv.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean in a comment ?
mircea_popescu: myeah. cleanning up html for mysql has its limits
mircea_popescu: you can however use proper <blockquote> syntax ims
asciilifeform: ah yes.
MAKABEakira: reading WOT> got beefs with gox ppl eh. ne0 lol
MAKABEakira: he -10'd you, if i am reading it right. he banned me from mtgox for having the temerity to suggest he might be helping a crime happen
mircea_popescu: who, this ?
MAKABEakira: ne0futur, gox remote support IRC
mircea_popescu: o that guy.
mircea_popescu: yeah, scammers tend tro have issues with me
dexX7: ;;buy 800 btc
gribble: (buy [--long] <amount> <thing> [at|@] <priceperunit> <otherthing> [<notes>]) -- Logs a buy order for <amount> units of <thing>, at a price of <price> per unit, in units of <otherthing>. Use the optional <notes> field to put in any special notes. <price> may include an arithmetical expression, and {(mtgox|bitstamp)(ask|bid|last|high|low|avg)} to index price to mtgox ask, bid, last, high, (1 more message)
dexX7: how does that work??
dexX7: i want to see where we'd end
kakobrekla: ;;market
gribble: Error: "market" is not a valid command.
kakobrekla: whatever
dexX7: ;;market buy 800
mircea_popescu: ;;asks 800
gribble: Bitstamp | A market order to buy 800 bitcoins right now would take 525811.5155 USD and would take the last price up to 660.0000 USD, resulting in an average price of 657.2644 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0440 seconds
gribble: Bitstamp | There are currently 11017.05 bitcoins offered at or under 800.0 USD, worth 7802457.34039 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.3021 seconds
BingoBoingo: ;;asks 20000
gribble: Bitstamp | There are currently 17296.977 bitcoins offered at or under 20000.0 USD, worth 15399449.7301 USD in total. | Data vintage: 1.6530 seconds
kakobrekla: gibbs says 'buy' is not an argument
kakobrekla: fuckya.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 648.71, vol: 11355.86477422 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 636.0, vol: 6002.30423 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 648.0, vol: 3599.85123064 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 654.5, vol: 61.92114619 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 625.536, vol: 3119.48700000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 660.0, vol: 20.94497584 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 638.8999, vol: 47.68698216 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
kakobrekla: ;;ticker --buy everything FUKKEN nao i SAID for btc gimmeh price plox
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the (1 more message)
moiety: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14318 @ 0.0008625 = 12.3493 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.006 = 0.3 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 30 @ 0.006 = 0.18 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you live there, do you ?
mircea_popescu: is my peeconomy actually happerning ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 16 @ 0.04 = 0.64 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: near, about 6km
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0931998 = 0.2796 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: it may or may not be happening. only the 'national seekoority' bureaucrats are theoretically subject to pisstesting.
asciilifeform: my understanding is that it is done as a 'random' inspection
asciilifeform: on rare occasions.
asciilifeform: and is only really an issue for marijuana aficionados
BingoBoingo: Shit, It would be less than a 12 Km drive to asciilifeform if I wrote off the necessary distance that happens on US 40
asciilifeform: (other traditional drugs have very short half-lives)
ozbot: Drug Screening for Employers | Quest Diagnostics : Urine Test with Quest Diagnostics
mircea_popescu: i dunno man. seems it's big biz.
asciilifeform: bus/train drivers.
asciilifeform: some 'prole' work (restaurants, etc.) that were conned into paying for it
mircea_popescu: and cab drivers, and pizza delivery boyz
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: and apparently oodlebunches of people.
asciilifeform: bureaucrats account for a small fraction, as i understand.
asciilifeform: (of the piss)
mircea_popescu: do or used to ?
asciilifeform: do, presently.
asciilifeform: it isn't unheard of - a shop not far from where i live actually sells... false piss.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0038998 = 0.39 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: and a contrivance for transporting and releasing it.
benkay: most american desk jockies as well, especially if your desk is attached to a manufacturing operation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83500 @ 0.00086234 = 72.0054 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: gotta keep risk down on insuring those line operators, and can't sow dissent in the ranks by testing the operators and not the engineers.
benkay: net result: test everyone. randomly.
benkay: this, as one might expect, is just another tool to control the cattle in america.
benkay: the testing is not random, it rarely even appears that way.
asciilifeform: chum of mine worked at a military lab where they occasionally tested people (oddly enough, the one where i worked - never. other than enlisted men) and noted that there was usually warning.
benkay: if insurance companies insist on tests actually happening, managers are discreetly dispatched to discover who the safe testing targets are.
asciilifeform: a few days warning suffices for everyone save the potsmokers.
benkay: senior management generally being reluctant to sacrifice the potsmokers, you see.
benkay: the really funny part of the whole charade?
benkay: the post-incident piss test.
mircea_popescu: that a romanian is sitting here laughing his ass off ?
benkay: "did you smoke pot in the last thirty days? oop - insurance doesn't cover that. guess you're out an arm!"
MAKABEakira: next time i have to do a UA (which is never) I should stock up on some methylene blue beforehand
BingoBoingo: MAKABEakira: Well, depends on how much you like your liver
benkay: it's the kind of hilariously fucked up situations you get under communism i guess
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, we're just acquaintances so i'm ok with some light hearted abuse at liver's expense
MAKABEakira: he can filter it out
asciilifeform: all i can tell from my perch - somebody must be buying those false bladders and their refills.
MAKABEakira: the romans had a peeconomy for realz
asciilifeform: by tradition, one is expected to actually piss in the company of a witness
asciilifeform: but i do not know whether this tradition is 'honoured in the breach'
asciilifeform: i imagine the pisstest is a massive boondoggle for folks selling GC/MS gear.
mircea_popescu: benkay exactly.
mircea_popescu: MAKABEakira that is true.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except men can't piss in the company of womenz generally speaking
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, when every positive needs confirmed
MAKABEakira: mircea_popescu, experian will have a whole new report to sell
mircea_popescu: and it'd be sexist to enforce genders
asciilifeform: everybody gets the correct witness, it is said.
asciilifeform: this (and airport arsesearch) is more or less the only place where it is permitted.
asciilifeform: caveat - i've never seen this ritual alive, personally.
asciilifeform: always seems to be happening to some other fellow.
mircea_popescu regrets that his peeing article is in romanian
BingoBoingo: From stories it seems most of the enlisted drug tests now happen as an absorbent patch that collects sweat.
benkay: american white-collar folk are generally sent to the hospital, where the peeing happens in a luxurious room, in private.
benkay: ^^ again with the absurdities.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: link?
mircea_popescu: ;;google moment de intimitate-n baie
gribble: LA PERLA CLASSIC... Intimate and seductive... right on the ... - FlipKey: <http://www.flipkey.com/baie-rouge-vacation-rentals/p282190/>; Coolest places to propose in the Caribbean - USA Today: <http://www.usatoday.com/experience/caribbean/best-of-caribbean/coolest-places-to-propose-in-the-caribbean/5293329/>; Grand Baie Bay - Holiday Lettings: (1 more message)
ozbot: Moment de intimitate-n baie pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: Once I finish my write up on baseball betting I might give translating it a shot.
dignork: mircea_popescu: я русский бы выучил только за то, что им разговаривал Ленин. :(
asciilifeform: i think i threw this one in here at one point!
BingoBoingo: ;;ident BingoBoingo
gribble: Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is identified as user 'BingoBoingo', with GPG key id 309BB8D7F3251143, key fingerprint ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143, and bitcoin address None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3019 @ 0.0008651 = 2.6117 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Has anyone here ever shipped an oil painting before?
mircea_popescu: guy knows his shit
BingoBoingo: Thanks. I've got a piece to sell, because fucking Dreamhost emailed me that the hosting's renewal is coming up soon.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.0008651 = 4.9311 BTC [+]
MAKABEakira: BingoBoingo, jush needs the money
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 347 @ 0.00590045 = 2.0475 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 255 @ 0.003789 = 0.9662 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14421 @ 0.00086496 = 12.4736 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60100002 BTC [-]
Duffer1: tldr late april
moiety: year?
Duffer1: hehe
Duffer1: "deployed 5 weeks from now" so probably september ish
MisterE: they have missed so many deliveries and are being sued by a bunch of people
MisterE: fuckem
Chris_Sabian_: does anyone know what is going on with AM? 181 from last week and only 31 coins this week...
the20year2: Closed on property #3 today, sellers did transfer us remaining rents + original deposits
nubbins`: congrats
the20year2: Current income of $1050/mo with 2 of 3 units occupied, next unit will add $400 once we get it rehabbed
Chris_Sabian_: Is that the Rental Company in Ohio?
Chris_Sabian_: The level of communication from 'Branny' is excellent. Sad to say that it is a rarity in bitcoinland
mike_c: One of the ironies of the stock market is the emphasis on activity. Brokers, using terms such as "marketability" and "liquidity", sing the praises of companies with high share turnover (those who cannot fill your pocket will confidently fill your ear). But investors should understand that what is good for the croupier is not good for the customer. A hyperactive stock market is the
mike_c: pickpocket of enterprise.
mike_c: the oracle of omaha speaks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 9 @ 0.04300258 = 0.387 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22659 @ 0.0008651 = 19.6023 BTC [+]
the20year2: I try to keep everyone updated. The video logs and the audited finaicial reports I think will put us over the top in terms of quality of transparency
the20year2: The video logs for properties #4 and #5 make me excited, since they're both big rehab jobs and I do believe they'll come out good. I've got part of the #4 video edited and voice-overed. My plan is to break up the voice-over version between properties so I can get feedback on what people like
the20year2: Really don't want to go with the overly-dramatic HGTV videos
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14850 @ 0.0008651 = 12.8467 BTC [+]
Chris_Sabian_: so did you raise all of the ~$1 million?
the20year2: No , to reach #1m we'd need to do all 4 rounds, we just finished #1
the20year2: Round #1 had 78k shares, 2-4 have 50k/ea
Chris_Sabian_: got it, when it round 2?
the20year2: I'd say 30 days from now
Chris_Sabian_: what is the share price?
the20year2: It does take a little while to buy & rehab properties, so the capital doesn't get utilized immediately
Chris_Sabian_: for the next round?
the20year2: it's around .006btc/share or so
the20year2: It depends on what the median price is leading up to the 30 day period
Chris_Sabian_: good call
Chris_Sabian_: i may pick up some then
Chris_Sabian_: what make you persue the bitcoin option instead of traditional investors?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.62226908 = 6.845 BTC [+] {6}
the20year2: too costly to do it with traditional investors, with bitcoin the startup cost was almost nothing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.63494539 = 13.9688 BTC [+] {4}
Chris_Sabian_: i'll see how the next 30 days or so go. i may throw 5 btc at rental and see what happens
the20year2: Hopefully we can get to, or close to full utilization of capital by the time 30 days is up
thestringpuller: nubbins` here?
the20year2: We've utilized, or have in contract about 50% of the given capital
Chris_Sabian_: btc prices are low right now, i would hold off selling for $$ until the gox crap is over
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.006 = 0.12 BTC [+]
Chris_Sabian_: 2014 will either make or break bitcoin. gox, regulations, tax, government interest, huge boost of awarness, it will be interesting to see
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0911 = 0.3644 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 642.01, Best ask: 643.94, Bid-ask spread: 1.93000, Last trade: 643.97, 24 hour volume: 13390.95777424, 24 hour low: 614.17, 24 hour high: 656.95, 24 hour vwap: 634.354614252
the20year2: I agree, however it's one of those things, if we can reach a position where leverage is open, btc pricing will largely be irrelevant because we'll just be playing arbitrage on the variations in interest/property ields
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 194 @ 0.00615999 = 1.195 BTC [+] {3}
Chris_Sabian_: i don't follow
the20year2: BTC price would have to exceed $2500 by mid 2014 if we levered in the next 6 months
the20year2: in order for it to be worth it
the20year2: err mid 2015
the20year2: It comes down to waiting for BTC price increase, or increase NAV of properties by 30%, 40%, 50% in a few months
the20year2: The second option will be much better, especially if we successfully start offering seller financing on properties, as we're trying to do with property #4
the20year2: It'll start making more sense in a month or two once we get these properties done, and secure at least one seller financed deal
Chris_Sabian_: so the renter is renting to own?
the20year2: Yes, with a substantial down payment
the20year2: Of which, much would flow back to investors/shareholders because they're paying a down payment on the repaired value, not what we have in it
the20year2: Property #1 was $62k>$115k , #2 was $33.5k > $55k , I expect #4 to be $37.5k>$80k
Chris_Sabian_: so we buy crappy property, put some money into it, and hopefully flip it?
Chris_Sabian_: but if bitcoin price > NAV property then share price should go down
the20year2: It's a hybrid flip , it's the 'get cake and eat it too' strategy
the20year2: Correct, however you're gonna have to see major jumps in btc prices to compete with the NAV growth
Chris_Sabian_: september to december was ~ 1000%, december to now was down ~50%, september to now ~550%.
the20year2: With the scenario of #4, we'd still be eligible for financing on it, which means the new rent-to-owner has paid us anywhere from $5k-$8k in a non-refundable down payment, plus monthly payments of $500-$600 per month. We still are eligible for financing it from a bank (A cashout) and could also get another $60k from the property
the20year2: So, in that scenario we clear still $100-$150 a month in income off the property, still collect appreciation if the rent-to-owner decides they don't want it anymore (Which is the most likely scenario), AND have $65k-$68k back in our pockets
the20year2: So, we've built asset value, cashflow, and have money in our pockets
Chris_Sabian_: and hopefully the renters treat the property well
the20year2: Correct, and you're still allowed to require them to upkeep the property or face default on the loan/rent-to-own
the20year2: The quality level of people that have substantial downpayment is much higher than your $0 down types
Chris_Sabian_: makes sense, $0 means the people have no incentive to make sure the property is kept up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 310 @ 0.0063 = 1.953 BTC [+]
Chris_Sabian_: nothing to lose
the20year2: Correct, and after 3-4 years, the renters are looking at up to $10k in loss from their damage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00086411 = 13.8258 BTC [-]
Chris_Sabian_: i would assume that you have some kind of background, fiance or history check with renters before you rentent?
the20year2: oh yeah
the20year2: Social media check, employment check, friend check
the20year2: It's proven that you're the sum of the people you hang around. Facebook makes it pretty easy to figure out if your renter is just a redneck, or a druggie
Chris_Sabian_: So if a property is 30k and needs work, why cant a renter just put the 5-6k down with bank loand instead of going through you?
Chris_Sabian_: and paying 50k?
Mats_cd03: interest and leverage
the20year2: Bank won't ever lend to them
kakobrekla: not enough fb friends for a bank?
the20year2: Anymore , banks refuse to lend to people who want a property that needs work. From 2004-now one of the highest default categories is wanabe investors/DIYers who buy a house, screw up the rehab and cost the bank money
the20year2: That's why I did the stock offering instead of just going to a local bank and asking for a loan. The bank wants to see properties in good shape with 3-6mo of cashflow before they'll lend
the20year2: for a owner occupant, they don't want to lend on a property that might have $5k in repairs, or $15k
Chris_Sabian_: and we trust that you can do that. I trust that you can do that....
the20year2: I don't know how many foreclosed houses I've been in that were 2nd time foreclosures in a 3-5 year period where the buyer had bought a foreclosure in the hopes of doing it themselves, then never completing repairs
the20year2: Pretty much :)
Chris_Sabian_: what is a typical comission for a realtor when selling?
the20year2: 5% to 6%
the20year2: If I have control what I do is usually 2% to the listing agent and then 3% + $2500 for the selling/buyer's agent
Chris_Sabian_: so both agents 'win'
the20year2: Sort of
the20year2: almost all brokerages in the US have clauses that if the selling agent comission goes above the 'area norm' , the remainder passes through to the agent directly
the20year2: And for most new agents, the cut is 50/50 , so they only get half of the 3%
the20year2: So, with say a $100k property @ 3% selling agent comission they're gonna get $1500, with the $2500 bonus they end up getting $4k
the20year2: Compared to say offering just 4% to the seller's agent, which would result in just $2k to them
Chris_Sabian_: and thay money comes from the seller?
the20year2: But , for every dollar you spend on marketing/fees, you typically get 2x or 3x back
Chris_Sabian_: higher selling price?
the20year2: When I got into real estate, i didn't believe the statistic they told agents. So, I individually tracked dozens of properties in my area that were listed without realtors, vs those listed with them
Chris_Sabian_: is it true then?
the20year2: There was one subdivision close to me where every single house was a cookie cutter design , and the FSBOs averaged $97k , agent listings averaged $116k or so
the20year2: Sales price, not asking price. FSBOs were around 140 days on market, agent listed ones were around 100 too
Chris_Sabian_: marketing...
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