Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-02-24 | 2014-02-26 → ↓
benkay: it's pretty easy
benkay: an accredited bitcoin investor accumulates bitcoins
benkay: they are accredited by virtue of having and accumulating bitcoins
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves inasmuch as one intends to measure sophistication, bitcoin holdings alone would show on the historical record an insufficient measure.
fract4l: mircea_popescu: did you predict GOX demise??
mircea_popescu: why ty Bones_
mircea_popescu: fract4l no. i announced it.
benkay: that's why the accumulation's important, mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 404 @ 0.0053995 = 2.1814 BTC [-] {2}
copumpkin: joe shmoe mined 10000 coins on his old laptop in 2009 as a joke
copumpkin: he's accredited
copumpkin: cause he has a lot of money
mircea_popescu: provided he didn't lose the laptop
copumpkin: seems a little awkward :)
mircea_popescu: (which most did)
benkay: copumpkin you missed the part about accumulation.
greenspan_fan: Bones_ only because he's influential enough that people ought to be aware
mircea_popescu: i just got an email from a friend, it goes "hey can i have like 10-20 bux worth of bitcoin cause im testing this service and i lost all the btc i mined on my laptop back in the day"
mircea_popescu: tru story. inbox of this morn.
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: hey, can you send me 10 coins? thanks
ThickAsThieves: satoshi still emails you?
nubbins`: heh!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2879 @ 0.00539996 = 15.5465 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: copumpkin no more bentleys for you!
assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656180/plain/)
jurov: !b 7
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: :(
copumpkin: I should sell my MPOE
nubbins`: too slow ;(
copumpkin: but I can't bring myself to
copumpkin holds onto his MPOE
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan but srsly, it's legitimate. if you think you can help some people do shit, help them. nothing wrong with that.
mircea_popescu: a large chunk of the way i designed mpex is so as to empower people to grow their own stuff
mircea_popescu: rather than try and corner the entire market. cornered markets don't grow.
Bones_: see https://coinbr.com/
jurov: he insist to help you to proper css, you know
mircea_popescu: if anything ima take the website down eventually.
mircea_popescu: just... whatever, it's there.
fract4l: interesting that MP, the #1 hated guy on the forums, turns out to have more integrity then anyone thought......
fract4l: he also has spot-on predictions
mircea_popescu: fract4l isn't that how things normally work out ?
copumpkin: I trust mircea_popescu to be honest
copumpkin: he's just a little odd
copumpkin: but he thinks the same about me
mircea_popescu: you can say asshole, i dun mind.
fract4l: mircea_popescu: haha... i suppose so. maybe your picture on the camel made people not take you seriously?
copumpkin: nah, you're not 100% asshole
mircea_popescu: fract4l when am i on a camel ?!
Bones_: lol
jurov: lool
nubbins`: ^ HEH
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 442 @ 0.00539998 = 2.3868 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Last 10 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656188/plain/)
jurov: !b 10
mircea_popescu: copumpkin not even women are 100% women you know ?
ninjashogun: hi guys
nubbins`: it was a horse, ya racist!
Apocalyptic: fract4l, how dare you, that's a great picture
mircea_popescu: hi ninjashogun
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: didn't think so!
ThickAsThieves: sup ninja
ninjashogun: hi mircea_popescu hi ThickAsThieves
ninjashogun: Not much ThickAsThieves . I'm raising $50K for a new job web site based on applied graph theory (not to relationships/connections - something else)
ThickAsThieves: <ThickAsThieves> OneFixt did you at least diversify into other exchanges already?
ThickAsThieves: <@OneFixt> ThickAsThieves: a tiny bit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3316 @ 0.00539996 = 17.9063 BTC [-] {3}
fract4l: Apocalyptic: hey, personally i think the camel picture is hilarious....
ThickAsThieves: i trolled the guy enough you'd think he'd have learned...
fract4l: ThickAsThieves: did you lose any coin on gox?
Bugpowder: OneFixt lost his coins?!? Oh man.
Bugpowder: The BITCOIN ORACLE
Bugpowder: Couldn't see the shut down coming
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, he claimed to have almost everything in gox
fract4l: well, losing my coins on gox is going to seriously motivate me to work harder to make more BTC.
ThickAsThieves: i used goz like twice in feb
OneFixt: Bugpowder: i have enough, Bugpowder, don't worry
ninjashogun: WhatsApp just sold for $16Billion, and there is a huge bubble in the valley . technical jobs are very scarce. we have 1) something much better than search, based on graph theory (without sayin gmore) and 2) a reason people will upload their profiles for this reason :) We can get a lot of technical profiles just from launch / announcements (on hacker news etc)
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder we have an oracle too ?
fract4l: i'm *SHOCKED* that bitcoinbuilder is still above 0.00000001
Duffer1: ninjashogun tell us more about how to invest
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun unless you manage to lay zuck you're not in this game.
ozbot: Bitcoin-Analysis (BitcoinOracle) on Twitter
Bones_: ninjashogun, will this site help me get laid
asciilifeform: 'technical jobs are very scarce' << wait what
asciilifeform: what planet.
Bugpowder: fract4l: I'd buy at 0.01
greenspan_fan: better than search based on graph theory?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he means technical people.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant talent! Sorry.
ninjashogun: yes, sorry
greenspan_fan: are you on crack? all search uses graph theory
benkay: now now greenspan_fan
benkay: settle down
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan in the sense al qm uses matrixes, sure.
ninjashogun: No, keyword search doesn't use graph theory. It uses set theory. (In the form of database design)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla check it out, your shitty chan is about to break 200
greenspan_fan: sorry, that was kinda rude
greenspan_fan: but, for instance, facebook's whole deal is modelling via social graph
ninjashogun: database queries are applied set theory. Ours is different, it's based on graph theory and is a very novel application that results in much better matches ,and ALSO a good reason for people to upload their profiles.
kakobrekla: its you ppl that make it shitty!
ThickAsThieves: all design uses grid theory, coincidence?
copumpkin: ninjashogun: pagerank is a graph algorithm :)
ozbot: How to recover your money as a small time investor with funds in mtgox
ninjashogun: copumpkin, yes, you're right it is :)
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun basically everyone's point is that regardless how you personally look at it, mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms.
greenspan_fan: also, idk how they teach qm in romania, but you can get by OK without knowing matrix mechanics
nubbins`: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <mike_c> :) hopefully i can run it on an actual machine and get better performance
ninjashogun: So just to put this in context I have just connected this week with the other mathetician I am creating this site with, so it is a very fresh startup opportunity. To whoever asked about the means of investing, standard terms as you would suggest based on hearing abou thte opportunity etc.
benkay: hoo booo whaaat qm without matrix operations?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan yes, but that doesn't mean any part of qm is inaccessible to matrix.
dexX7: this is somehow sad.. i wonder for how many bitcoin was a pain instead of pleasure
mircea_popescu: dexX7 hopefully for most.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I have no idea why you wrote thta to me
mircea_popescu: you know, like sex.
ninjashogun: "mathematic reality is accessible to everyone on their own terms"
nubbins`: ^ it is
greenspan_fan: but I always conceptualized pagerank for instance as being essentially graph theoretic in nature
ninjashogun: Yes, it is.
ninjashogun: Absolutely, greenspan_fan
mircea_popescu: so good for you :)
ninjashogun: Ours is a bit different.
copumpkin: a big-ass matrix is a graph
Duffer1: what's your business plan?
ninjashogun: But in some ways very similar to pagerank
copumpkin: well, a square matrix is
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it's a start-up, what business plan. they maybe have an idea is all.
mircea_popescu: copumpkin i thought it didn't have to be square.
mircea_popescu: you can generalise the graph space neh ?
nubbins`: pick yr number of dimensions
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: well, there's an obvious interpretation of a square matrix as a graph
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - hi, Duffer1 . The business plan is to get profiles for free, based on the novel application, which will cause people to want to upload their profiles to us, and use them to fill vacancies scraped from other sites. (Meaning for starters the other sites get the money from it.)
mircea_popescu: copumpkin a that sure.
nubbins`: 5 if you want, all the rules still work
nubbins`: you just won't be able to make a physical model of it anymore
copumpkin: then matrix multiplication "walks" the graph
copumpkin: it's kind of fun
greenspan_fan: ninjashogun the scraping part could be a thing unto itself
ninjashogun: Duffer1, then when we have a set of profiles and a critical mass, we can get listings ourselves directly, and get the money from them. However, there has to be content initially.
copumpkin: you can then multiply graphs with unusual semirings to get more interesting behavior
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun specifically, what is the problem you are solving ?
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I don't think so. I am sure every job site would be open to us sending people to their ads :)
nubbins`: it comforts me that math still works with more than three spatial dimensions
copumpkin: nubbins`: it breaks at 7, sorry
ThickAsThieves: your business plan has no business in it though
nubbins`: D: why didn't anyone tell me
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's okay, Mr Hig Uyse proved that any set of cats can be packed in less than 7 dimensions.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the specific problem we're solving is "connecting jobs with job-seekers". I.e. finding the best qualified candidate for an employer, or the place to work for a job-seeker. BETTER than a text search where they both just blurt out what they need (exactly) on the part of the employer or everything they have done (exactly) on the part of the job seeker.
greenspan_fan: you don't need business, just data. Cash out and pass the buck to facebook or whomever
nubbins`: phew
ninjashogun: which is how keyword search (status quo) works.
nubbins`: bad news for the imgur giraffe tho
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun but how do you account for flexibility in either side ?
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu not a fan of string theory?
asciilifeform: ;;google man woman dog matching
gribble: NP-completemess | Equivalence: <http://equivalence.co.uk/archives/63>; Man, Woman, Dog, seeking stable relationship. - Math StackExchange: <http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/531586/man-woman-dog-seeking-stable-relationship>; Dog and Dog Chinese Love Compatibility - Astrology.com: <http://www.astrology.com/chinese-love-compatibility-dog-dog/2-d-chmt-dog_dog>
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, exactly.
ThickAsThieves: no one wants to fill out another resume
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, that is the problem we have solved.
mircea_popescu: (some people don't want to do a specific job, but whatever, some people don't want something specific done, but whatever IS done) ?
ninjashogun: Exactly.
ninjashogun: This is the issue that we solve.
antephialtic: isn't that just the stable marriage problem?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.48000142 = 3.36 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: some people don't want the best and brightest, they just want people who can do an okay job
ninjashogun: No other site does this - other sites just are glorified text searches or databse searches.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
nubbins`: unfortunately all these people are in btc ;(
mircea_popescu: this much is true, job market is a scandal.
ninjashogun: and we're set to shake it up
mircea_popescu: well you're set to try.
mircea_popescu: let's not confuse the two.
copumpkin: I saw my profile(s) on gild.com the other day
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00539997 = 0.3132 BTC [+]
greenspan_fan: also, consider how many jobs are filled by referrals
ThickAsThieves: he's graph to shake it up
copumpkin: it was interesting, because they thought there were two of me
nubbins`: a job search where mediocre employees can find already-defeated employers
copumpkin: and one of them had high expertise, low desirability, and the other had low expertise high desirability
nubbins`: as cheeky as that sounds, you're actually onto something there
nubbins`: tier 2 job search for people who know they're not up to snuff
copumpkin: finding good hires is actually pretty hard
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.473 = 4.257 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1571 @ 0.00463921 = 7.2882 BTC [-] {24}
ninjashogun: So I am looking for a roughly $50K investment (nominal, could be less). Is anyone here in a position to conssider that, has a portfolio and has been involved iwth other startups in the past? An interest in mathematics (specifically graph theory) helps immensely.
copumpkin: so if ninjashogun can get it up and running, he'll have a lot of willing customers
greenspan_fan: my idea for a start-up involves me applying to thousands of places for remote work, then farming out the resulting offers to india
copumpkin: but it's a tough market :)
copumpkin: lots of other people want in too
copumpkin: like those gild folks
greenspan_fan: since the netflix for prostitutes was immediately rejected by y combinator
copumpkin: and several others I've seen
ninjashogun: the moment I announce on hackernews (hwere I have a profile) at the right time of day, I will have some sign-ups
antephialtic: can you specify the specific graph theory problem you are trying to solve? (other than simple bipartate matching)
ninjashogun: Yes, but we have an innovation they don't.
copumpkin: I want good signups though
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: Specifically, @CharlieShrem ...
copumpkin: and the good people aren't looking
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 284 @ 0.00427064 = 1.2129 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun people here are worth well over a billion all together.
ninjashogun: antephialtic - No, I don't want to specify it here. It's not about solving an unsolved problem, but rather applying existing theory in a novel way.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i'll bet you're not getting a dime so far.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, ok... that doesn't really help me though :) I'm not here raising Series A.
greenspan_fan: yeah, does it have CSS? that's what I want to know
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1130 @ 0.00415 = 4.6895 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17382 @ 0.00088296 = 15.3476 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, it doesn't matter if they're worth $10M altogether or $10B. As long as at least one person here has a portfolio and is interested in startups
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun they're also inclined to play, something vc's aren't normally. ATC got started because people were bored and so far cost about 50k or thereabouts.
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 446.96, Best ask: 448.9, Bid-ask spread: 1.94000, Last trade: 448.9, 24 hour volume: 66688.95383623, 24 hour low: 442.12, 24 hour high: 579.34, 24 hour vwap: 529.068851738
mircea_popescu: but you're nowhere near the zone.
ninjashogun: antephialitc - the specific graph theory problem is related to shortest-path
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, interesting
mircea_popescu: "Ice-breaking ships help keep Chesapeake Bay waters safe" <<< check out all the global warming.
copumpkin: ninjashogun: here's a cute way to compute shortest paths: http://r6.ca/blog/20110808T035622Z.html
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00420001 = 0.42 BTC [+] {4}
greenspan_fan: my new startup idea: an automated, high-quality "human" activity generator for nascent startups looking for funding
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i'm down.
Duffer1: lol
mircea_popescu: if you manage to insert it into the next round of ycombinator a la sokal, you get a bonus.
ThickAsThieves: i like my search engine idea better
davout_: greenspan_fan: interesting
Duffer1: ninjashogun do you have any product at all atm to show?
mircea_popescu: davout you two can work together.
ThickAsThieves: customizable filter templates, fully weightable factors, totally transparent seo
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - no, I just met and spoke with my cofounder today :)
davout: no, i'm a create-your-own-exchange consultant
asciilifeform: folks who think they have an efficient solution to an np-complete problem should not settle for small change.
asciilifeform: like paltry $1B
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, above where you say "ATC got started because people were bored" - what is ATC pls?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun for the other part of your question, i would say everyone speaking here knows a lot of math.
copumpkin: asciilifeform: which NP complete problem?
mircea_popescu: review the logs for various lulz.
greenspan_fan: it doesn't have to be a solution, just an approximation
mircea_popescu: (do you know how to review the logs ?)
greenspan_fan: I get really sick of people defending btc-dev not doing important things because they're "probably" np-complete
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan you don't say.
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: IM SICKER OF IT THAN YOU FOO!!1111
ninjashogun: Here is the other person's profile that he responded with: "I am a full stack web/desktop/mobile developer. Currently my weapon of choice is C# for the back end stuff, and JavaScript for the front end. I am also versed in Objective-C (I have three apps on the app store). Daily my bread and butter is developing web apps. Lately I've been developing cross-platform mobile games. I have a degree in Math, so I know just a bit of graph theory... this
ninjashogun: project sounds interesting. I'm open and interested in hearing more about this project."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0045 = 0.9 BTC [+] {3}
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu ranking sickness of it is (probably) np-complete
ninjashogun: And for a bit of information, the team is distributed - he is in Kentucky and I am from Boston
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - is a distributed team a problem for you?
Duffer1: not even a little bit
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun listen, you're really misbehaving here, albeit perhaps unintentionally. the correct approach is to lurk and read the logs for about half a year. then you'll be in a position to meaningfully engage th dragons here.
mircea_popescu: i get that this doesn't help you any in the sense of getting you to do what you want to do
mircea_popescu: and while that is unfortunate, it's nevertheless what it is.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 307 @ 0.0045 = 1.3815 BTC [+] {6}
ninjashogun: Duffer1, great.
greenspan_fan: alternatively, have some code people can look at
Duffer1: ^and it is genuinely to your benefit to take that advice
ninjashogun: Duffer1 I can PM you the specific graph application (in gerneral terms)
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/la-firma/ << perhaps see that as a primer.
ozbot: La firma pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Duffer1: nono that's alright
ninjashogun: all right. though it's interesting
mircea_popescu: mutatis mutandis
ninjashogun: again, this is the idea that caused this startup to be created this week. (I did consult with advisors the last week or two about it.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 118 @ 0.00450001 = 0.531 BTC [+]
Duffer1: keep this chan open when you can though, hang around
mircea_popescu: no, see, unless you can name an advisor and i can go
mircea_popescu: ;;rated advisor
gribble: You have not yet rated user advisor
mircea_popescu: and get a positive result, you haven't in fact consulted any advisors.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0045001 = 0.45 BTC [+] {2}
ninjashogun: Duffer1, thanks for the feedback
greenspan_fan: it isn't meant to be discouraging, just that you have to do some ground work, have something to show off (like a demo, or some sort of model, at least), before anyone can make an informed investment decision
Duffer1: ^.^
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, well, obviously
ninjashogun: So what I was tihnking is that this isn't a real 'forum' (in that most IRC channels are basically just trolls etc) and that I would just escalate to another form of contact (skype etc) and be in touch while it gets rolled out
ninjashogun: the other thing is we don't REALLY have any capitalization requirements.
ninjashogun: it's all software, we have jobs at the moment
mircea_popescu: no, this is the real forum.
mircea_popescu: when the sec wanted to talk to me i forced them to come here.
ninjashogun: so out of a $50K investment, probably a few hundred would go to server costs and $47K would sit in the bank for six months. while we build it (Though I know that is not what investors like to hear)
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you're kidding right?
mircea_popescu: i'm dead serious.
mircea_popescu: this is the forum.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, um
greenspan_fan: personally, I think it would be cool to invest in a start up, but I'm kinda averse to giving cash to pseudonyms in irc who aren't incorporated, have no references, no demos
greenspan_fan: mircea_popescu when did the SEC come knocking?
mircea_popescu: at the rate we're going i'll prolly publish the bundle in a coupla weeks.
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, so first of all obviously you would not give a cash to a pseduonmn :) We can get in touch if appropriate. Could you tell me a bit about yourself - do you have any investments in startups to date? (or been involved iwth one)? Do you like matheatics or theoretical computer science?
mircea_popescu: and you can see then.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Nope, it sounds like a good idea, but I don't think it will really work. the reason the pregnancy ones work is the hormone level goes up >1000x. MMPs are not that unregulated, maybe 2-3x by volume? Need to read the paper but I imagine the ROC curve is pretty ugly.
Bugpowder: 'upregulated'
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda what im doing here, trying to cheat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29900 @ 0.0008839 = 26.4286 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: my head goes "yes, but maybe it goes up locally ?" but how would i know.
greenspan_fan: it's the new thing
greenspan_fan: metablomics. big data, and lots of urine
benkay: "cool to invest in a startup"
benkay: fuck everything
mircea_popescu: so he's new, what.
benkay: this is what is wrong with the planet
mircea_popescu: let the man have fun.
mircea_popescu: not like he's doing it on borrowed moneyz.
benkay: unlike the vcs, i suppose
mircea_popescu: so you see.
Bugpowder: Not to mention, early diagnosis of some cancers has no effect on mortality, but does decrease QOL
Bugpowder: and increase care costs dramatically
mircea_popescu: sad but true
greenspan_fan: benkay I've just never had anyone ask me for money and it turn out well, so I am holding out hope for ninjashogun
mircea_popescu: then again this seemed geared for africa
mircea_popescu: i bet the situation re qol / cost is different there.
ninjashogun: greenspan_fan, I haven't asked you for money :)
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder for public benefit, mind enumerating those types ?
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan i take it your wife doesn't ask, just takes ? :D
joecool: mircea_popescu: congrats on mpex outliving yet another exchange
mircea_popescu: joecool well ty, tho it's kinda chearting. mpex never did fiat.
mircea_popescu: shitty business to be in.
joecool: seems so
benkay: in other news, i'm talking about lisp at the Portland Python night this month. if there are any Portlanders listening, you should come and NOT TALK ABOUT BITCOIN FFS.
ozbot: Monthly Presentation Night -
mircea_popescu: everyone go, talk of atc instead.
benkay: bloody pedants
ozbot: Russian units transferred from securing the Sochi games to the Ukraine border
mircea_popescu: sheet's getting warm there.
benkay: wowee
mircea_popescu: what i hear is they moved something like 10k armored vehicles so far today.
copumpkin: benkay: you a PL person?
davout: oh nice, i didn't the dip
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 52 @ 0.00509969 = 0.2652 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.0008853 = 27.5328 BTC [+] {5}
davout: see*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.1115081 = 0.5575 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7161 @ 0.00088296 = 6.3229 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 460.0, Best ask: 463.46, Bid-ask spread: 3.46000, Last trade: 463.46, 24 hour volume: 70747.68743697, 24 hour low: 436.36, 24 hour high: 578.5, 24 hour vwap: 522.632639086
antephialtic: heh. someone should make an MPEX style exchange for usd/btc, all security based on pgp keys
davout: oh, mtgox is down
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11150005 = 0.223 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.47206 = 2.3603 BTC [-] {3}
joecool: davout: you seem surprised
antephialtic: speaking of which, its a bit ridiculous that GPG still doesn't support ECDSA keys
davout: antephialtic: it does
joecool: antephialtic: blame debian
mircea_popescu: antephialtic localbitcoins is kinda-that i thought
mircea_popescu: ecdsa sux anyway.
davout: not really
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00434673 = 0.2173 BTC [-] {9}
davout: (the localbitcoins thing)
joecool: mircea_popescu: depends on the curve chosen
mircea_popescu: joecool im suspicious as al lfuck of the entire thing.
mircea_popescu: reminds me of dsa.
davout: antephialtic: you can already have the same feature if you trade x.eur on mpex
antephialtic: wait it does? I'm running osx with gpg from homebrew and it doesn't have ecdsa as an option
davout: antephialtic: i think it's gpg2 that does
joecool: i'm using 4096-bit RSA for the forseeable future, but ecdsa seems attractive if i can write a javacard implementation to work on my yubikey neo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4607 @ 0.00088296 = 4.0678 BTC [-]
joecool: until then, openpgp smartcard for me
mircea_popescu: joecool how would you identify the classes of curves they have popped ?
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: I agree, DSA/ECDSA is a kludge. Schnorr signatures are much better
benkay: copumpkin: pl?
copumpkin: programming language
benkay: copumpkin: programming languages?
benkay: notrly
mircea_popescu: yes he is.
benkay: there is only lisp.
mircea_popescu: stop scamming him!
antephialtic: davout: thanks for the tip, going to try to set that up
benkay: i'm not even a computer science person
Namworld: What the hell is going on? I leave for a few hours and the whole Bitcoin world goes to ashes?
benkay: it's not Bitcoin, it's just Gox.
joecool: mircea_popescu: again i don't use them either, the lack of support though isn't from waryness, it's from the number of old gnupg clients in the wild
Namworld: For the sake of speculators dropping out/news/etc, damage is done.
Namworld: It's only gox, the rest will recover
Namworld: But for now everything is on fire, so to speak.
davout: Namworld: global warming hits bitcoin
mircea_popescu: antephialtic i'd rather see Cramer-Shoup myself.
mircea_popescu: i still dunno why they've never been seriously implemented.
Namworld: Global warming? NEEEEEIIIIIILLLLL
ozbot: Twitter / CharlieShrem: . @Mircea_Popescu We both had ...
Namworld: Sorry, sorry. My cousin keeps quoting that line from DBZ abridged.
mircea_popescu: Namworld is she hot ?
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I checked out mpex exchange
benkay: copumpkin: u has pm
Namworld: Guy cousin
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, did you write it in Perl?
Namworld: I had money on gox for convenience, I must admit.
mircea_popescu: i didn't write it at all, and tech details haven't really been released.
Namworld: Withdrew it at a 10% cut as soon as issues hit.
mircea_popescu: Namworld no convenience for you! come back, 1 year!
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I guess you just wrote the beautiful front-end right :)
mircea_popescu: o hey. didja help all the people buying mtgox debt learn a lesson ? lol
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun no, i just tell people what to do.
mircea_popescu: and what they did wrong.
lnovy: mircea_popescu: that sun picture send my box whole 1GB into swap :D
mircea_popescu: and then if they don't listen sometimes they live long enough to apologize.
mircea_popescu: like homeboy shrem a few lines up
mircea_popescu: lnovy it's not that huge is it ?!
lnovy: mircea_popescu: 4096x4096... but I guess FF is just crap at those...
mircea_popescu: what do you do if you get like, a real monitor one day ?
lnovy: I have 1920x1080 + 1280x1024... but only a 4 gigs of ram...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10975 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: benkay fwiw, i heard copumpkin once used a lambda function to turn a iphone into an ipad
ninjashogun: lnovy - if it's any consolation, they just came out with a 128 GB micro sd card.
benkay: i once heard copumpkin use a closure to turn an Mac][ into a Genera
lnovy: i'd swap to that :)
benkay: it was audible.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656343/plain/)
benkay: !b 4
lnovy: ok, I don't get it :)
mircea_popescu: don't worry, nobody does.
mircea_popescu: it's lisp.
lnovy: curring is for fools
ninjashogun: sorry I meant to quote "Spritz – read 500 words per minute without any training"
ninjashogun: it's an interesting little app
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun if you just dump the link ozbot will read the page title.
ozbot: Log In - The New York Times
ninjashogun: that worked :)
mircea_popescu: the new york times is so well adapted to the web.
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: breast cancer, prostate cancer
ninjashogun: ozbot should pretend to be the google bot - then it would get the right titles
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder how the fuck does that work man. on my list breast cancer is one where early discovery has the greatest impact. in there with skin cancer.
mircea_popescu: what have i been reading the wrong books ?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun i think it just looks for the <title> element in html
ninjashogun: ho okay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 626 @ 0.00050099 = 0.3136 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, when you said above that this channel was worth "over $1b" I didn't takei t seriously as if it has like 500 regulars then just a couple of people worth $50M - or a single Internet billionaire who drops in sometimes - would account for that
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun well it was seriously.
mircea_popescu: hahahaah
mircea_popescu: did you tweet that ?
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, your own net worth is quite up there from your exchange site? (With all its glorious stylesheets)?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 271 @ 0.00086048 = 0.2332 BTC [-] {3}
Bugpowder: argh can't transfer bitcoin on work network, even when VPN'ed to elsewhere
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 85 @ 0.00509997 = 0.4335 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.472 = 0.944 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder incidentally, you know sm is in hot water over it ?
mircea_popescu: extent of the damage not quite known yet.
mircea_popescu: second market.
Bugpowder: oh yeah
mircea_popescu: course they probably get a free pass from investors
mircea_popescu: at least this time.
ninjashogun: guys I've received some suggestions to "lurk" and "read logs" here, which I wouldn't really have time to do. It was nice meeting you all though and I may be back as the project progresses. Overall I don't think I will be spending a ton of time building WoT, advisors, etc - as I have real-world references for the moment that I would expect anyone to consutl.
antephialtic: mircea_popescu: what is the source that all winklevosses money was in gox
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun an' that's fine.
antephialtic: ninjashogun: *humblebrag exits*
nubbins`: A Goldman spokesman, after being told that @GSElevator had been unmasked, said in a statement, “We are pleased to report that the official ban on talking in elevators will be lifted effective immediately.”
mircea_popescu: antephialtic source ? what is this source thing you speak of.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` wtf you know, ban on talking on elevators.
nubbins`: i lel'd
mircea_popescu: how about banning fucktards from taking the elevator with you
nubbins`: i think it was a bit tongue in cheek
Vexual: noone talks to me in elevators
ninjashogun: ah no humblebrag. It's certainly nice to meet you guys. later.
mircea_popescu: ;;google love in an elevator aerosmith
gribble: Aerosmith - Love In An Elevator - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Yrhv33Zb8>; Love in an Elevator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_in_an_Elevator>; AEROSMITH LYRICS - Love In An Elevator - A-Z Lyrics: <http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/aerosmith/loveinanelevator.html>
nubbins`: i face backwards if i'm the first person to get in
nubbins`: occasionally other people do it too
antephialtic: glad to see dealbook is focusing on hard hitting journalism
mircea_popescu: i got news for you : those people are gay and looking.
Bugpowder: If only Lawsky had rolled out the bit license earlier
mircea_popescu: antephialtic actually a guy focusing on hard hitting journalism was here earlier.
mircea_popescu: hopefully he sticks.
kakobrekla: looky, erik is alive
kakobrekla: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yv6ph/some_words_for_my_friends/
Vexual: the viking?
Bugpowder: The 0.01% of bitcoin trying to feel the pain of the 99%
davout: LOL
mircea_popescu: lmao why so mean.
mircea_popescu: actually it's prolly less than 0.001%
mircea_popescu: pretty sure he's in the 100 archons, and pretty sure there's over 100k people with some bitcoin dust somewhere.
nubbins`: the satoshi%
mircea_popescu: so that'd be 1 in 1k
davout: i hope my 300 EUR/BTC bid gets to feel the pain too
mircea_popescu: $vwap x.eur
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR 1 day: average: 0.00206827 high: 0.0021 low: 0.002 volume: 1100 btc: 2.2751 7 day: average: 0.00211705 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.002 volume: 4209 btc: 8.91064414 30 day: average: 0.00187721 high: 0.00226762 low: 0.00166114 volume: 17120 btc: 32.13776514
mircea_popescu: $depth x.eur
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['200 @ 0.00170512', '500 @ 0.00169213', '4200 @ 0.0016245', '100 @ 0.00153846', '1000 @ 0.001']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['749 @ 0.0025', '251 @ 0.0026', '450 @ 0.002837', '1531 @ 0.0029']
mircea_popescu: some gap there.
davout: not there :D
davout: still gotta work on the bot
Vexual: make it do binladens too
Vexual: gangsta
greenspan_fan: how many bots are in this channel?
Vexual: or g* is five or ten rather than 3.45565
nubbins`: we are all bots
Vexual: im the orb
davout: greenspan_fan: there's assbot, ozbot, gribble
mod6: mpexbot
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan bout 3
davout: mebbe other that i forget/don't know about
greenspan_fan: how many are custom code?
mircea_popescu: i think most are supybot
kakobrekla: assbot is assbot
davout: .bait
davout: that's ozbot :3
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00508637 = 0.1933 BTC [-] {3}
davout: that's a cute one
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Serious question time, how will options contracts be exercised at month's end? At bitcoincharts price, or at last quoted (~$650 / BTC)?
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder that'll be announced then
davout: bitcoincharts 7d vwap iirc
davout: haha guess not heh
mircea_popescu: davout was 24h vwap, except arguably bitcoincharts is broken etc.
mircea_popescu: it's a fucking conundrum.
Bugpowder: Going to have a big effect on S.MPOE results. Would like to know before.
davout: i was thinking about when you said using implied spot for futures was a bad idea
Bugpowder: bitcoincharts may fix itself shortly though
davout: you still think so?
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder kinda why i'm not saying anything.
mircea_popescu: davout not sure exactly what you mean ?
davout: we were discussing the basket, and how mtgox was kinda ruining it
davout: and that it would theoretically possible to use the future's implied spot to get the collateralization requirement
Vexual: vorb eurostack
Vexual 1.05
Vexual: vorb findeuro
Vexual unknown
greenspan_fan: "If you’re sad about your bitcoins losing all their value, maybe you should have put out more lands so you could bring them out earlier." -- @deliciousbees
davout: not even the implied spot i guess, the actual spot
Bugpowder: 420 on coinbase dude
mircea_popescu: davout i recall you proposing that and me pointing out it cant happen because of backfeed.
davout: or some vwap
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @niubi You only think that ...
Vexual: .m
davout: nah, i said BC's vwap, which you understood as x.eur's vwap
mircea_popescu: no difference, inasmuch as you run both.
davout: i didn't even think about using x.eur's
Vexual: .lm
Vexual: .bait
Vexual: zing
davout: wouldn't it make sense if the market was larger?
davout: anyway, just wondering
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't make sense no matter how large the market is, because you arguably can still control it.
davout: at least on the x.eur side that's something that you could quantify
mircea_popescu: maybe if you were mtgox cca 2011 and had 9x% of the market you could bring the arugment that it's nonsense to empower errors by going outside
davout: yeah
mircea_popescu: but im not in the business of quantifying such.
davout: such wow
mircea_popescu: basically the french strike me as the sort of people who'd be in favour of a government accuplation scheme.
mircea_popescu: you submit your genital pictures, you get matched by le departement with some guy,
mircea_popescu: functionaries come and insert his thing in your thing, etc
cerelenius: mircea: care to comment on the price thnx
davout: lol, don't see me as french, i'm half dutch, half nigerian
davout: cerelenius: reddit seems to be doing a good job with that :-)
mod6: yoh dawg, we heard you like things in your thing
mircea_popescu: cerelenius notrly.
cerelenius: shrem made a total fool of himself again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.472 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you know pick something and stick to it, koin3d, whatever.
mircea_popescu: this constant namechanging is derpy.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 542 @ 0.00506068 = 2.7429 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 134 @ 0.00520597 = 0.6976 BTC [+] {4}
cerelenius: is the 700k stolen figure true? how does that even make sense
Vexual: vorb ^
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
Duffer1: i'd say it's likely true, the only question is the identity of the thieves
Vexual classified
cerelenius: well yea but they were honoring btc withdrawals
cerelenius: up until the fall 2013
Vexual: scam 101
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00526065 = 0.8101 BTC [+] {5}
cerelenius: thieves my ass karpeles is a fucking jew himself
toffoo: any guesses here on "collateral damage" of gox collapse? who will be the 3rd-party businesses/services who will now collapse because they had coins/funds tied up at gox?
cerelenius: his cabal took them
Duffer1: that's what i'm saying cere
cerelenius: how would he not notice that type of leakage for so long
Bugpowder: toffoo: good point
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00525796 = 0.3943 BTC [-] {3}
Bugpowder: counterparty exposure could be bad
cerelenius: toffoo no i dont think so
cerelenius: everyone with 2 IQ points left gox last year
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: Did you keep any of MPEX account funds on Mt GOx?
toffoo: it's going to bite at least somebody big out there
mircea_popescu: toffoo most of the people clueless enough to have been exposed will probably be rescued by their investors now, a la second market.
cerelenius: lol bugpowder
mircea_popescu: it's likely the twinklelosses are out of the game.
Vexual: ooh
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder i never had a gox account.
mircea_popescu: it's possible this blow actually takes out the bitcoin foundation scamgroup,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96150 @ 0.0008861 = 85.1985 BTC [+] {6}
cerelenius: mircea_popescu they held coins at gox?
mircea_popescu: but we'll have to see.
mircea_popescu: obviously i'll be trying to lock any doors for mr v that i can. race against time.
cerelenius: winklevoss had their own wallet...
Vexual: fancy
cerelenius: mr v?
Bugpowder: V is the worst
mircea_popescu: yes, some clown.
cerelenius: vessennes
cerelenius: king scumbag
cerelenius: the irony here is the exchange where nobody knows the owner ends up lasting the longest(btce)
mircea_popescu: bitstamp is actually older if memory serves.
Vexual: is btce dead?
cerelenius: bitstamp is a pita to withdraw from 5k+ they turn it into a huge Q&A session
cerelenius: vexual no
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00539949 = 0.4968 BTC [+] {2}
davout: mircea_popescu: nah
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: why do you think the foundation gets taken down?
davout: btc-e and gox were are oldest, followed by BC
davout: then came the britcoin/intersango crowd
cerelenius: btce is russian run they are more clever
greenspan_fan: It would be interesting to know how many of the dev team had money on gox
mircea_popescu: yes, it is often the case entire groups of millions of people are more clever.
cerelenius: karpeles fat jew no wonder shrem vouched for him
davout: cerelenius: is there something wrong with being jewish?
greenspan_fan: if those people are toast, development might slow down
cerelenius: davout: jews have a tendency for causing chaos, it goes back to choosing barabas in the new testament..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.47142857 = 3.3 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 245 @ 0.00525243 = 1.2868 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.11064975 = 3.3195 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan considering what counts for development these days that should increase the btc price.
cerelenius: davout: not going to get into that with you
davout: cerelenius you're not getting to
davout: into anything anyway, don't even know who the fuck you are
cerelenius: well ill give credit to mircea for calling it before anyone else
mircea_popescu: he's this angry canadian fellow.
cerelenius: publicly
mircea_popescu: why are you so angry anyway.
cerelenius: fk off
greenspan_fan: I think he's just trying to be cool, because racism is controversial
jurov: http://imgur.com/esDRP98 for greenspan_fan
ozbot: As a white male, thank you for making me feel awkward ESPN.. - Imgur
cerelenius: i never said anything racist
mircea_popescu: greenspan_fan racism is controversial, but re niggers not re jews.
mod6: speaking of dev, i thought the most recent list of defects was pretty spot on. account naming issues, et. al.
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: can you comment on the foundation collapsing?
mircea_popescu: mod6 barely scratches the surface, really.
mircea_popescu: we need a motherfuckingspec.
greenspan_fan: jesus, are you writing an article for your local freeman-on-the-land tabloid?
mircea_popescu: jurov what i don't understand is... why are all those black guys dressed like if they were white ?
cerelenius: lol greenspan
mod6: it was nice addendum to the first list you made tho. but yeah.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0051 = 0.51 BTC [-] {3}
davout: mircea_popescu: no, because specification is hard, also leads to alternate implementations, which leads to bugs
mircea_popescu: white/blue shirts with lines, and the dots on white on the guy on left ? it's fucking outrageously unflattering.
B007: mircea_popescu: america makes them think they are
mircea_popescu: davout o yes i see, alternative implementations leads to bugs.
mircea_popescu: this is so true.
davout: yup
mircea_popescu: why are we even in bitcoin
davout: hearn said it
davout: must be true
mircea_popescu: davout yes but hearn is an idiot.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 557 @ 0.00539949 = 3.0075 BTC [+] {7}
davout: no, he works for guggle
mircea_popescu: fun fact : llvm lead to very many gcc bugs
mircea_popescu: being finally fixed.
davout: mircea_popescu: oh and "bitcoin relies on bugs in openssl"
davout: \o/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 64 @ 0.00539948 = 0.3456 BTC [-] {2}
davout: i'm not even joking
mircea_popescu: no i know
mircea_popescu: it's still funny.
Vexual: kakobrekla, how much do i owe on the dukebox?
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: will gavin be affected ?
greenspan_fan: and what about the jews?!?!?!?!?!?!?
mircea_popescu: the jews will be affected.
davout: gavin is probably jewish
mircea_popescu: i think his wife is jewish
davout: mircea_popescu: wrong, the smart jews don't have anything left in gox since 2011
mircea_popescu: davout there are smart jews ?
davout: mircea_popescu: are there?
greenspan_fan: oh my god, you guys.
mircea_popescu: o wait i think i must have mixed up my stereotype cards
mircea_popescu: nevermind.
davout: go trade them on gox
davout: o wait
Vexual: zing
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: so basically -assets is like old time tv
cerelenius: satoshi was probably jewish, from the economic theory around btc at least
mircea_popescu: there's like comedy hour, finance hour, porn hour
mircea_popescu: we got it all!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 202 @ 0.00520098 = 1.0506 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00088221 = 14.777 BTC [-]
B007: where is the business?
mircea_popescu: in the pudding.
Vexual: its all business
assbot: Last 20 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656532/plain/)
jurov: !b 20
cerelenius: bitcoin is 100% jewish monetary theory, hoard coins and watch them swell in value while adding zero value
jurov: kakobrekla, dwanna some help with bashing?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 17 @ 0.11996649 = 2.0394 BTC [+] {5}
greenspan_fan: all monetary is jewish monetary theory
cerelenius: unfortunately in 2013 capitalism yes
greenspan_fan: and I have some bad news about physics, too
davout: cerelenius: actually bitcoin is jewish in the sense that you're not invited
cerelenius: well economics is a pseudo physics, adam smith essentially seperated it from moral philosophy
kakobrekla: jurov you wanna admin the thing?
jurov: sometimes yes
Vexual: he does have a good sense of humour
B007: have you guys read Atlas Shrugged?
antephialtic: yes (unfortunately)
cerelenius: ayn rand propaganda
Bugpowder: Jesus christ
greenspan_fan: jesus. of course. it makes my top 20 most tedious list.
cerelenius: hi bugpowder
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, you got results from your analysis yet ?
Bugpowder: No I am too busy doing recordings
antephialtic: if you're going to read a rand book, read anthem, its much shorter and gets all her ideas across without 1200 pages of terrible dialogue
Bugpowder: I got some nice cells tho
Bugpowder: Also I'm too tired to figure out how to recurse this nicely.
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: modern economics is all about having something swell in value(deflation) via usury. bitcoin is no exception pal
antephialtic: if you really must read a long one, read the fountainhead, its a lot better than atlas shrugged.
Bugpowder: Or watch the movie
greenspan_fan: cerelenius usury is what deadbeats call it when they can't meet the interest payments (because they're deadbeats), let alone the principal
mod6: fountainhead was ok. i think 'we the living' was better if you must.
cerelenius: because its impossible to meet it?
cerelenius: 21mil btc @ 1% is impossible.
greenspan_fan: then don't invest in bitcoin. You'll get better returns with your trailer park meth lab.
cerelenius: i meant lending them
mircea_popescu: <greenspan_fan> all monetary is jewish monetary theory << actually it's gypstalian
mircea_popescu: jews did relatively little.
cerelenius: lol bitcoin is not an investment pal, its a speculation. bitcoins are sterile
mircea_popescu: physics tho, yea, as jewish as communism.
cerelenius: mircea_popescu: you talking about florence
greenspan_fan: cerelenius okkk, walter white-power
cerelenius: get your terms right.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.47010074 = 18.804 BTC [-] {6}
cerelenius: when you "buy" a bitcoin its zero sum, someone else now has what you exchanged for it
cerelenius: you arent adding capital to any project
greenspan_fan: what is buying anything, then?
davout: mircea_popescu: you forgot to mention the derp hour apparently
cerelenius: investing is when you combine capital with labor, ideas etc to create new value
Vexual: floating a theory is free dickhead
cerelenius: anything else is mere speculation
mircea_popescu: davout derp hour is like pie hour.
mircea_popescu: every time is a good time for pie.
davout: hahaha
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'll bbl.
cerelenius: bitcoin economy you will always have everyone impoverished except about 0.001% of holders
cerelenius: the same thing under 100% gold standard
mircea_popescu: cerelenius that's fine, brains distribute about the same way.
mircea_popescu: let the idiots be poor, best thing for them and everyone else.
cerelenius: it ends up backfiring on the rich though over the long term
cerelenius: thats what occured in florence as well, you had the biggest prosperity ever yet they ended up imploding since the commoner couldnt afford to run a family
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.47 = 0.94 BTC [-]
Vexual: u wanna renaissance? do it
cerelenius: renaissance was a bread and circus to cover the economic looting of that time
cerelenius: hence all the arts
greenspan_fan: so many other things happened at the time
cerelenius: in bitcoin large holders have to do nothing, becuase as the armies of fanatics spread the gospel and do all the work, the largest holders get all the purchasing power transfered to them
Vexual: yeah people did good shit, and other people went. whoa here have some money
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: you are clueless. renaissance was the birth of capitalism and large scale usury in the west, it ended up destroying all the participating city states
greenspan_fan: in the midst of dynastic struggle, wars, and massive religious upheaval
cerelenius: venice went from richest region in the world to flat broke
greenspan_fan: but clearly it was the usurious jews
cerelenius: no it was usury.
cerelenius: not just them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.00539949 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {2}
cerelenius: everyone was engaged in it essentially
cerelenius: fugger were the most famous
greenspan_fan: and yet, I am not convinced that charging interest is bad. If you want me to loan you something, then you should compensate for my not having it while you use it.
cerelenius: the problem with usury is your economy never grows fast enough to keep up with the debt + interest
cerelenius: greenspan_fan: well yea there is legit compensation and then there is usury.
greenspan_fan: so okay, by definition, then, usury is bad
cerelenius: in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market
cerelenius: you could run a bills of exchange system if they ever figure out how to make it decentralized
Apocalyptic: <cerelenius> in bitcoin you will never be able to have a functioning credit market // as said above, it's not that bad
Apocalyptic: businesses will find finances it they are worthy of it
cerelenius: you need a self liquidating credit system
cerelenius: without credit impossible to allocate any capital
Apocalyptic: here's where you're mistaken
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 210 @ 0.00534999 = 1.1235 BTC [-] {3}
cerelenius: apocalyptic: im not mistaken, most people have zero idea what money is and who can issue it.
cerelenius: bitcoins grand accomplishment is the blockchain
Apocalyptic: how does that contradict the fact you are ?
cerelenius: apocalyptic: bitcoin as a currency resembles a sophisticated wealth transfer scheme, those who have more of it benefit from the work of everyone else
mjr_: so...
cerelenius: as their coins swell in value
greenspan_fan: asymptopically, though, it evens out
cerelenius: no it doesnt lol how?
cerelenius: an early adopter or large coin holder just has to sit and do nothing, as everyone else "adds to the ecosystem" their coins swell in value with next to no risk, and they didnt even have to hire labor lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00522283 = 3.1337 BTC [-] {4}
greenspan_fan: if bitcoin or its like ends up becoming the main currency, or at least a sufficiently important one
cerelenius: it never will
mjr_: well...that all depends, you are describing the "free rider" problem
mjr_: which is not new
cerelenius: mjr_: all deflationary systems work like that
mjr_: some people get to (shocking) drive on roads they never paid for
greenspan_fan: so the alternative is fiat with the jews or btc with the cyber-jews
mjr_: nah, think about it this way
cerelenius: mjr_: money can be anything that extinguishes debt. and since only producers can pay off debt, they are the only ones who can issue money
mjr_: wrong
mjr_: IMO
mjr_: since you can have assets without debt
cerelenius: bitcoin can only work with a functioning bills of exchange market
mjr_: and you can trade those assets for others
mjr_: without any debt being involved
cerelenius: your confused
greenspan_fan: your line of reasoning is based off of axioms that other people don't agree with
cerelenius: say im a farmer and i need capital to grow my crop
greenspan_fan: so this is pointless
cerelenius: which i cant sell for 6months
mjr_: lets pretend we were little kids
mjr_: and i had a pb and j
Vexual: youre a shit farmwer
cerelenius: if you lend me btc at interest, the crop price will go down
mjr_: and you had a cheese sandwich
mjr_: we can trade with no debts
mjr_: that is the basis of money
cerelenius: debt is the basis of money
cerelenius: money is a contract it always was
mjr_: what if we had an "abstract base sandwich", no it is not
ozbot: M.I.A. - "Bad Girls" (Official Video) - YouTube
mjr_: it isn't
davout: cerelenius: you're working on the assumption that money is debt, come back next year
mjr_: we can agree to disagree
mjr_: but traditionally
cerelenius: money is a contract
cerelenius: thats all it is
mjr_: it is a token
davout: cerelenius: money is no such thing
mjr_: there is a difference
cerelenius: no it isnt lol
davout: cerelenius: well, enjoy your contracts, i'll enjoy my money
mjr_: you are mixing up "backed by" with "tradeable for"
cerelenius: no im not
cerelenius: tokens havent been used since tribal days
mjr_: in the first case, you have an entity willing to always exchange at a fixed ratio
davout: a contract is debt
mjr_: dollars a token
cerelenius: dollars are not a token lol
cerelenius: they are a credit instrument
mjr_: no they are not
mjr_: i have dollars
davout: cerelenius: bitcoin is a commodity, money, not a contract
cerelenius: every single dollar issued must be backed by collateral
greenspan_fan: let's pretend we're talking about something that doesn't involve contracts
mjr_: what does someone owe me?
mjr_: tell me
greenspan_fan: say, sandwich-coin
mjr_: where can i redeem this debt instrument?
cerelenius: mjr: those dollars are fed reserve liabilities backed by fed reserve assets
mjr_: no they are not
cerelenius: mjr: you cant redeem it, its like a self liquidating tbill
davout: cerelenius: bwahahaha
mjr_: the fed has others dollars
cerelenius: no they dont
mjr_: oh, so it represents a debt that won't be paid to me
mjr_: cool system
mjr_: it doesn't work that way
cerelenius: hence why it requires perpetual debt creation
greenspan_fan: to a first approximation, dollars are a token
cerelenius: mjr: of course it does pull up the fed balance sheet
mjr_: no...you really don't understand...
cerelenius: every single paper USD in existence is backed by assets the fed holds
mjr_: a debt means that i am OWED something
cerelenius: namely US government bonds
mjr_: in other words i can REDEEM it
cerelenius: all electronic dollars are created by commercial banks
mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar
Vexual: heres a lesson in semantics
ozbot: Busta Rhymes - Arab Money - YouTube
cerelenius: backed by collateral
mjr_: what is their collateral?
cerelenius: for fed or commercial banks?
Vexual: what u got?
mjr_: that is like saying "a mortgage is backed by a house, but you cannot ever take the house'
mjr_: then it isn't backed by the house...
cerelenius: the fed collateral is US gov bonds
mjr_: which are denominated in...
mjr_: oh rightr
mjr_: dollars
cerelenius: commercial bank collateral is anything lent against
mjr_: so i have a debt that means you have to pay me other dollars
jurov: bash flushed
mjr_: that is silly
cerelenius: mjr: yea i agree its not redeemable, its like a 0day tbill
mjr_: then its not a debt
mjr_: it is a token
cerelenius: mjr: thats the system they created since they got off gold redeemability
cerelenius: no it isnt
mjr_: first off, that is my point, "notes" represent assets on account
mjr_: traditionally
cerelenius: its impossible to repay debts under the current system because the dollar itself comes into existence through borrowing
mjr_: whatever we have done in the last 40 years doesn't fundamentally change the meaning of the word money
davout: cerelenius: by definition fiat money is a token that is assigned value because of a law, not because it represents a claim to anything
mjr_: nice, i'm glad you read "debt: the first 5000 years" but that is not actually the case
cerelenius: fiat money and credit money are 2 different things
mjr_: yes
cerelenius: we arent in zimbabwe
cerelenius: that is 100% fiat
davout: cerelenius: so what's your point exactly?
cerelenius: we have a credit money system
mjr_: simple easy lesson
mjr_: if you cannot trade it in for a fixed amount of something else...there is no difference to you
cerelenius: dabout: my point is bitcoin cannot function on a large scale without a bills of exchange system
mjr_: it is a token
davout: cerelenius: you mean paper bitcoins?
mjr_: which we use to exchange value
cerelenius: mjr: a token is not a liability of someone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1279 @ 0.00051978 = 0.6648 BTC [+] {5}
mjr_: and a dollar is not a liability of anyone
cerelenius: yes it is
mjr_: unless you are using that word in a completely differnt way than i think
mjr_: in which case i would like to borrow as much as i can from you
mjr_: liability is something which is owed
davout: by liability he means garden chair, oh wait it makes sense now
mjr_: the fed owes us nothing
mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar for anything
mjr_: it cannot be a debt
mjr_: since the fundamental core concept of a debt is that it can be "redeemed"
cerelenius: go and look at the fed balance sheet
cerelenius: every single dollar is a liability
cerelenius: backed by equal assets
mjr_: and...
cerelenius: thats what gives them value
davout: "assets"
mjr_: that is what you would call "accounting"
cerelenius: think about this
Vexual: you aint the fed bro
cerelenius: total debt + interest
mjr_: davout: exactly "assets"
cerelenius: always exceeds available dollars
mjr_: ugh
cerelenius: thats why there is always a BID for dollars
cerelenius: someone constantly needs them to repay a debt
mjr_: yes i know all this, and it doesn't change the fundamental everyday reality
mjr_: not if you don't owe anything
cerelenius: you are clueless
mjr_: what if no one owed anybody anything?
cerelenius: paper dollars are liability of the fed
mjr_: i am trying to talk about the BASIC definitions
cerelenius: mjr then there would be no money
davout: mjr_: leave britney alone man
mjr_: since you don't seemm to understand
MisterE: are we at the bottom yet?
cerelenius: if there was no debt there would be no dollars in this system
mjr_: yes there would be
cerelenius: no there wouldnt be.
davout: mjr_: it all makes sense in his system because the juice run the fed or w/e
mjr_: are you saying it is physically impossible to print a dollar bill without the fed?
MisterE: why is this happenening, CEP resigning from BTC.org?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00088225 = 15.4835 BTC [+]
MisterE: CEO*
mjr_: just so you know
cerelenius: mjr: every single dollar printed MUST be backed by an asset.
mjr_: the treasury actually creates the dollars, at least m0
cerelenius: they do not print unbacked
mjr_: lol
mjr_: whatever you say bud
MisterE: lololol
davout: "assets"
mjr_: yes[
Vexual: yeah and gox has coins, tell us something good
cerelenius: the treasury runs the printing press at the behest of the fed
mjr_: fully backed of course
MisterE: what planet do you come from?
MisterE: they print $ by adding zeros to a number on a computer
mjr_: this is why you are silly
davout: #bitcoin-derp apparently
MisterE: lol
mjr_: to say that the fed has "assets" backing their dollars
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00520959 = 0.5157 BTC [-] {2}
Vexual: graph it cerelenius
MisterE: yea it's called a stack of IOUs davout
mjr_: you are mixing up accounting terminology with real life
cerelenius: graph what its on the fed website
mjr_: that is the key
cerelenius: mjr you are clueless pal
mjr_: a debt is a "receivable" which is an asset
MisterE: and tell us why they no longer publish M3?
MisterE: just research M3
mjr_: or rather...i should say that in our accounting system, a receivable is listed as an asset
MisterE: ^ which is a mistake
mjr_: in the human made scheme that conforms to GAAP
cerelenius: US federal reserve notes are liabilities
MisterE: imho
mjr_: no they are not
cerelenius: for the federal reserve
cerelenius: yes they are
mjr_: no...
mjr_: watch this
mjr_: i give you $5
cerelenius: where did the 5 come from?
mjr_: i put in a book, " cerelenius owes me $5"
cerelenius: it has to be borrowed into existence
mjr_: that entry in the book is an asset
mjr_: no it doesn't
Vexual: months or drug abuse before personality disorder appeared?
mjr_: there is no rule anywhere that says it does
mjr_: for example
mjr_: susan b anthonys
mjr_: are dollars
cerelenius: dude shut up
mjr_: and are not made by the fed
cerelenius: its on the fed site
cerelenius: all US FRN are fed reserve liabilities
mjr_: explain coins
mjr_: not coins
mjr_: they don't issue them
mjr_: so...
mjr_: what "debt" backs those?
cerelenius: i told you
cerelenius: US gov bonds
mjr_: i think that you are missing the forest for the trees
cerelenius: everytime new FRNs are to be printed, there has to be a posted asset
mjr_: sure its fun to talk about retarded shit like this
cerelenius: i think you are oblivious
mjr_: but in the real world, in your real life
MisterE: dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt
mjr_: you don't redeem them
mjr_: you trade them
mjr_: as tokens
Apocalyptic: <MisterE> dudes we're debt backing debt insured by debt // genius...
cerelenius: go educate yourself
mjr_: i don't care what they write on paper
mjr_: are you silly?
MisterE: thanks Apocalyptic :)
mjr_: oh, the fed says that they should print more money
cerelenius: every single dollar in existence must be lent into existence
mjr_: well its true the fed said it
mjr_: no
MisterE: now tell me where the bottom is :)
mjr_: that is def not true
cerelenius: the fed doesnt print money they lend it
cerelenius: you need a borrower on the other end
mjr_: yes
mjr_: but they don't create it
Apocalyptic: MisterE, why would I do that exactly ?
cerelenius: the private sector stopped borrowing in 2007
mjr_: the treasury does
cerelenius: so the government took up the slack
MisterE: so I can get all the BTC for myself!
cerelenius: the fed flooded the system with credit but there were no takers for it, hence the huge reserve balances banks now hold
Apocalyptic: see, that's a problem
MisterE: because you have a lot already Apocalyptic ?
cerelenius: the only taker has been the government
Apocalyptic: I want some too
MisterE: hehe, let's conspire
cerelenius: private sector is borrowing for stuff like student loans etc
cerelenius: nothing else
Vexual: what?
Vexual: you're bent
MisterE: poor cerelenius and the rest of the sheep who still have faitin in the financial house of cards
cerelenius: hyperinflation under such a system is next to impossible, you can have hyperdeflation instead
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1656677/plain/)
davout: !b 1
cerelenius: mistere: before the USD collapses youll have hyperdeflation
cerelenius: like we saw in 08
MisterE: cerelenius: either way it won't bother me
MisterE: I'm in commodities
cerelenius: LOL those will collapse
MisterE: no thats shit people actually need
MisterE: to use
cerelenius: commodities collapsed 80% in 2008
MisterE: 2008 was an aberration
cerelenius: under credit collapse ie deflation, demand collapses
MisterE: and if it crashes that hard we're all fucked so it's AK-47 time
cerelenius: 2008 was a shot across the bow, a warning of the future
cerelenius: and it was not an inflationary collapse
MisterE: I agree 2008 was a warning
mjr_: just so you know
MisterE: and we're trying to spend our way out of it
mjr_: the treasury doesn't just give the money to the fed
mjr_: the fed pays for it
mjr_: which...how can they pay for something which they created?
cerelenius: the fed doesnt order much federal reserve notes
cerelenius: theres very little federal reserve notes
mjr_: you said "every dollar is a debt, it can only be created through debt"
cerelenius: its all bank credit
mjr_: thats nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.06089999 = 0.609 BTC [+]
cerelenius: yes theres 2 ways to create dollars
mjr_: you said dollars couldn't exist without debt
cerelenius: commercial banks
mjr_: i just proved you wrong
cerelenius: and fed
mjr_: so...
cerelenius: BOTH do it via lending
mjr_: nope
cerelenius: mjr lol no you didnt
mjr_: fed buys
mjr_: not creates by lending
MisterE: where you think the money for QE is coming from?
cerelenius: when the federal reserve orders dollars in physical format
mjr_: they pay for them
MisterE: they dont
cerelenius: they require an asset posted to them
mjr_: they def do
MisterE: nobody uses physical at that level
cerelenius: they do not print blindly lol
cerelenius: misterE yes exactly
mjr_: they pay all costs to manufacture or mint
MisterE: the discount window is all 0s and 1s
cerelenius: its all bank credit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.061 = 0.122 BTC [+]
mjr_: thats nice
mjr_: but there are dollars not created via debt
mjr_: basically
cerelenius: every single dollar in existence is backed by debt
mjr_: which was my point
mjr_: no its not
mjr_: a printed dollar
cerelenius: mjr the physical dollars are backed by fed assets(debt)
mjr_: bought by the fed
mjr_: is not a debt
mjr_: no...it is not
cerelenius: they only buy printed dollars when a bank rqurests them
cerelenius: and they have to post an asset to back it
cerelenius: like if you want 100bil of printed dollars you have to post 100bil of tier 1 capital assets to the fed
cerelenius: THEN they make the order
cerelenius: its always zero sum
mjr_: ok
mjr_: sure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22850 @ 0.00088221 = 20.1585 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00539863 = 0.5399 BTC [+] {4}
MisterE: are you saying the sum total of assets denominated in USD is less than the sum total of USD denominated debt?
mjr_: so you are saying that we have a fully backed currency
cerelenius: mjr i already told you look at the fed balance sheet its painfully obvious
cerelenius: mjr: yes by debt.
mjr_: i don't care
mjr_: go look at gox's balance sheet
cerelenius: misterE: yes.
mjr_: it is a piece of paper made by people
mjr_: not like handed down by moses
mjr_: you do know that right
MisterE: it's all about trust
cerelenius: misterE: total debt+ interest always exceeds available dollars
MisterE: nothing matters but trust
mjr_: yes obviously
cerelenius: thats why the fed needs QE
mjr_: this is all obvious
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053995 = 0.459 BTC [+]
mjr_: but all irrelevant
mjr_: boviously
cerelenius: new dollars must constantly be created to pay off old debts
mjr_: i told you that if i gave you $5, your debt is my asset
Vexual: this is like nubbins music
cerelenius: because we dont have money in the traditional sense
mjr_: no they don't
mjr_: that is not true
cerelenius: yes it is.
mjr_: and obviously not true
mjr_: ok
mjr_: here is the most trivial example
mjr_: there is 100 dollars total
MisterE: sorry but he's starting to make sense
mjr_: i lend it to you
ozbot: All Sectors; Credit Market Instruments; Liability, Level (TCMDO) - FRED - St. Louis Fed
mjr_: you work for 100 a hour
cerelenius: this has to go up FOREVER
cerelenius: or else the system implodes
mjr_: after one hour your debt is paid
cerelenius: see how it dipped in 2008?
MisterE: we're not even talking about personal liabilities yet
mjr_: sorry just not true
MisterE: most people are mortgaged to 10x their 10 year net worth
mjr_: if you had to pay the debt NOW then it would be impossible without creating more
cerelenius: look at that 08 dip and it nearly blew out the entire system
mjr_: but debts have the interesting factor of time
Vexual: cerelenius, you're a two toned fuckstick
mjr_: meaining velocity of money
mjr_: can handle interest
cerelenius: MisterE: i hope im making sense to you because mjr is on a different planet.
mjr_: in other words, 100 can circulate to pay 100,000 worth of needs
mjr_: lol
mjr_: this is so basic
MisterE: you both are on differerent planets lol
mjr_: i don't even understand your point
mjr_: sure, money is created via debt
MisterE: I'm just running back and forth in The Enterprise
mjr_: who cares
cerelenius: mjr go back to buttonwood meetings with your btc lol
mjr_: why does that matter at all
cerelenius: you are clueless
mjr_: ok...what was your point again?
Vexual: you're pointless
cerelenius: the end game is hyper deflation on a scale not scene in 500 years
mjr_: lol
mjr_: whatever
cerelenius: its not going to be hyperinflation
mjr_: sounds fun
mjr_: but i meant in our lives
mjr_: what is your point
MisterE: no matter how it ends we all lose
mjr_: you can create money using debt and NOT hyperinflate
mjr_: or you can hyperinflate
MisterE: the soviet union was far better prepared for a crash than the US is
mjr_: the creation method is irrelevant
cerelenius: when credit is first created its inflationary for the rest of its life its deflationary
MisterE: everything was already state owned
mjr_: i seriously don't see why you are talking about this, so maybe i missed your main point?
mjr_: dollars are USED as tokens
cerelenius: my point is all bitcoin will do
MisterE: mjr_: you don't think the current syetm is sustainable do you?
mjr_: in our USE of them they have nothing to do with debt
cerelenius: is make a tiny tiny %
cerelenius: sure it does mjr
mjr_: ok, i buy a sandwhich
cerelenius: someone is constantly in need of dollars to pay debt
cerelenius: its ALL debt related
mjr_: the price is set on the open market
mjr_: it isn't
mjr_: and that is where your point gets stupid
MisterE: it's justmore currency
mjr_: i think
cerelenius: thats how credit currencies have a bid
cerelenius: its not becuase the government says so lol.
Vexual: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
cerelenius: its becuase of debt. theres always a shortage of dollars
mjr_: again, irrelelevant point
cerelenius: debt is denominated in dollars so you need them
mjr_: there is no shortage of dollars
mjr_: if you owe someone sure
cerelenius: there always is
mjr_: i don't
cerelenius: thats why everyone is broke
MisterE: BTC is different because the community decides on value without government influence
mjr_: so i don't see why
mjr_: same as dollars
cerelenius: misterE: btc is a commodity
mjr_: if you were to sell your car
cerelenius: virtual commodity
Vexual: youre broke, you can't afford to make a graph
mjr_: how many dollars do you HAVE to accept
cerelenius: mjr: all dollars exist via debt. do you understand this concept
mjr_: none, you can pick whatever number you want
Vexual: wankhole
mjr_: yes
mjr_: so who cares
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 371 @ 0.00539919 = 2.0031 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.47 = 1.88 BTC [-] {3}
mjr_: that is irrelevant
mjr_: for me selling my car
cerelenius: total debt + interest surpasses all available dollars at a given time
cerelenius: meaning there is a shortage of dollars
mjr_: again who cares
mjr_: as long as i have some, who cares
cerelenius: thats why they have value
cerelenius: scarcity
mjr_: no
MisterE: eventually tha check comes due
mjr_: they have "value" because someone is willing to take them
cerelenius: yes misterE
MisterE: you can blow up bubbles in the mean time
cerelenius: perpetual debt is impossible
MisterE: like the S&Ls
MisterE: and big bangks
mjr_: look...lets say i owe 50 dollars
cerelenius: because everything in nature has a beginning and an end
Vexual: i al comes out in the wash
MisterE: even GM
cerelenius: compound interest has no end
cerelenius: compound debt*
mjr_: and you "forgive" that debt if i do you a favotr
cerelenius: mjr banks cant forgive debt lol
cerelenius: theyd be insolvent
mjr_: they can
cerelenius: no they cant
mjr_: and they do
mjr_: yes they can
MisterE: in the end we'll knock 4 or 6 zeroes off of the end and it will be business as usual :p
mjr_: do you not live in real life
MisterE: they do
cerelenius: a bank can take loses on max 1-2% of total debt
mjr_: do you not use your eyes?
MisterE: they get tax credit
mjr_: ok...
cerelenius: in the united states about 2.5% of mortgage holders defaulted
mjr_: so they CAN forgive it
cerelenius: and that caused the system to be insolvent
cerelenius: no they cant.
Vexual: 4 mental patients walk into a bar
mjr_: this is all irrelevant
mjr_: who cares
MisterE: banks claim writeoffs for written down debt
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3550 @ 0.00088225 = 3.132 BTC [+]
cerelenius: misterE; they can only write down a tiny % of it before they are insolvent.
mjr_: exactly
mjr_: there are accounting rules for doing exactly that
mjr_: allowance for bad accounts
Vexual: ill have the beef
cerelenius: lol yea 2008 was accounting rules
cerelenius: mjr go back to school
mjr_: what is your point
mjr_: they CAN and DO forgive debts
MisterE: right
mjr_: which is what i said
MisterE: since reserve requirements are a pittance
cerelenius: 2008 bank liabilities exceeded assets
mjr_: you said they CAN'T and DON'T
cerelenius: there are no reserve requirements
cerelenius: there havent been for 30 years
mjr_: wow you are dumb
mjr_: if you were selling your car...how would this matter to you?
MisterE: yea there is
cerelenius: "reserve" means a tier 1 asset which is a US government bond
mjr_: which is payable in...
mjr_: dollars
cerelenius: misterE lol no there isnt, the fed hasnt set reserve requirements since the 80's
mjr_: so it is a big circle jerk
MisterE: currency reserves
MisterE: 10%
cerelenius: mjr: yes its a form of check kiting
mjr_: nice
mjr_: i don't care
mjr_: i really really don't care
cerelenius: misterE; LOL not a single bank in the US or europe has 10% currency reserves
KRS-One: sup mjr_
mjr_: what up KRS-One
cerelenius: they have closer to 0.5%
KRS-One: shorting this bitch =D
mjr_: hows it been
mjr_: me too
mjr_: up a bit
KRS-One: haha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.11996645 BTC [-]
cerelenius: mjr you will always be poor
mjr_: i hate people who are not pragmatic
MisterE: I think we have seen the bottom today boys
mjr_: you haven't answered how empiracally this would be any different when trying to sell a car
Vexual: cerelenius, where can i sinect in your kak?
mjr_: or buy a sandwich
mjr_: i want either A) a certain amount of bitocoin, or B) a certain number of dollars
mjr_: identical
cerelenius: the smartest guy in here is the one with the largest stage that inflates in value when all the dumbasses do work
cerelenius: mircea popescu
cerelenius: he knows the game
Vexual: yes, hes very handsome, but thats not all
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: mjr your a tool.
KRS-One: haha
cerelenius: and youll always be one
mjr_: thats nice
mjr_: you have fun with your theories
mjr_: i'll keep living in the real world
cerelenius: you think running around buttonwood trees with your iphone and 0.001btc matters
mjr_: glad i don't have to share it with you
mjr_: well...unlike gox we have never been hacked
mjr_: and i dont even know who you are
cerelenius: you need something to take first
mjr_: but i guess you know who i am
cerelenius: before you can be hacked
mjr_: i've never seen you around here before
Vexual: ill take your moms xanax
cerelenius: mjr arent you that buttonwood guy?
mjr_: and you obviously aren't smart enough to be a part of the convo
mjr_: yep
mjr_: like i said you know who i am
cerelenius: what convo lol everyone in here is clueless except 1-2 guys
mjr_: satoshi square, blah blah blah
cerelenius: mjr: i come in here once in awhile to break mirceas balls
mjr_: like i said
mjr_: you are mixing up primatry market with secondary market
mjr_: i could give two shits about how tokens are created
cerelenius: go back to school
mjr_: its what you do after that that matters
mjr_: you treat it like a "debt" and you will never be repayed
mjr_: i could care less
cerelenius: it cant be repayed
mjr_: i treat it like a token
cerelenius: i already explained why lol
MisterE: not when the creator given them with a promise to pay back
mjr_: and it works like a token
cerelenius: exactly misterE
cerelenius: gold was what paid debts off in the past
mjr_: i could care less what the creator said or wants to do
Vexual: its not xanax
cerelenius: gold was VITAL
mjr_: if i want a sandwich, i ask how many dollars
MisterE: it's over only a matter of time
cerelenius: they replace gold with the US government bond
mjr_: and give them that many if it is important
KRS-One: cerelenius: looks like it didnt break resistance, maybe we will indeed see a new low now
cerelenius: KRS-One: i dont think we take out the late december lows
mjr_: again, completely irrelevant
MisterE: soon as oil is denominated in another currency the jug will be up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.462995 = 3.704 BTC [-] {2}
MisterE: oil is all USD got left
KRS-One: hmm right
cerelenius: misterE: as bad as the USD is it will be the last currency to collapse
mjr_: true
mjr_: but that is where i think you get ridiculous
mjr_: like, if no more dollars are used
cerelenius: KRS-One: despite all this shitty news and bad atmosphere we havent even exceeded late december lows
MisterE: yea people cant diversify
mjr_: we will never be able to obtain things
mjr_: like, guess commerce is done?
mjr_: we just find other tokens
KRS-One: cerelenius so i'm thinking lower
mjr_: and they work pretty much the same
cerelenius: well yea it freezes up for a short term.
jurov: alternatively, we can just go into prolonged slump, that will end when we diversify away from oil
cerelenius: mjr: lol its not the end of the world
mjr_: i know its not
mjr_: my point is it's irrelevant
mjr_: to what people do
mjr_: and will continue to do
MisterE: jurov: I wish, what I really wish is we would pay the real cost for the oil
cerelenius: mjr: these types of collapses have been occuring every since capitalism was introduced, just the scale of them has been getting progressively wrose
cerelenius: worse
mjr_: treat it as debt if you like
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.11064728 = 0.6639 BTC [-] {2}
mjr_: i really don't care
mjr_: again i don't care
cerelenius: you will when your bank account is not accessible
cerelenius: im sure your bitcoins will save you then
MisterE: yea the size of the bubbles are bigger and bigger
mjr_: if you hold dollars i guess
mjr_: i don't care
MisterE: now we're inflating countries like Ireland and Greece
cerelenius: paper dollars will be the only thing that have value under that scenario
cerelenius: PAPER
mjr_: cool...what do we use at satoshi square again?
cerelenius: not electronic
mjr_: oh thats right
mjr_: paper money
MisterE: maybe they will keep you warm if you stuff them inside your clothes
mjr_: and bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0053975 = 0.5236 BTC [-] {3}
mjr_: cuz that is tokens
mjr_: which don't rely on shit from anyone
mjr_: which is why i use them
cerelenius: well bitcoin is completely different then the dollar
cerelenius: its not a liability
mjr_: cuz its maybe too fucking obvious
mjr_: oh, so i can't buy stuff with it
mjr_: i can't give it to people
mjr_: i can't be paid for my time
cerelenius: the problem with bitcoin is saleability
mjr_: in what way
cerelenius: it has none
mjr_: is it different
cerelenius: hence why it moves 40% in a day.
mjr_: i just sold today
mjr_: so it can be sold
cerelenius: yes but its extremely illiquid
mjr_: i have empiraccally proven that
mjr_: ok...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 116 @ 0.00534929 = 0.6205 BTC [-] {4}
mjr_: illiquid != can't be sold
mjr_: so maybe you just don't get these fundamental points
cerelenius: well i like using saleability, the more btc you throw at the market what happens?
mjr_: i sold some
cerelenius: it collapses
mjr_: guess what happens
mjr_: when i sell a lot of dollars for euros?
cerelenius: nothing
ozbot: Pixies - Debaser (Official Video) - YouTube
mjr_: yep
cerelenius: dollar has extreme saleability
mjr_: fixed exchange rate
mjr_: obviously no one trades forex
mjr_: and forex risk doesn't exist
mjr_: sorry, you are right
cerelenius: you need to sell hundreds of billions to move it 0.5%
Apocalyptic: what ?
mjr_: i am silly
mjr_: ok...
mjr_: so you DO move the price
Apocalyptic: ofc you do
cerelenius: yes of course
cerelenius: slightly
mjr_: i like how you agree with me every time
cerelenius: bitcoin you move the price with a tiny lot
mjr_: ok
cerelenius: and the saleability decreases as you keep moving
mjr_: difference of scale not kind
mjr_: same with anything else
cerelenius: you can get rid of dollars at any time of the day
cerelenius: you can walk down the street and get rid of all of them
mjr_: i can get rid of bitcoin at any time of day
cerelenius: thats called saleability
mjr_: yes
cerelenius: no you cant lol
mjr_: and you can do it with bitcoin
cerelenius: you need a willing bidder
mjr_: ah
mjr_: so if you hold euros in the us
mjr_: are they "saleablae"
Vexual: youre projecting
cerelenius: dollar has near infinite bidders
KRS-One: ah shit i just posted this to -analysis http://i.imgur.com/Qsc61NR.gif
mjr_: thas nice
KRS-One: isnt it
cerelenius: mjr you can walk down the street and sell your dollars for products
mjr_: ok...
mjr_: what is your point
cerelenius: thats saleability
cerelenius: why are you referencing the euro
mjr_: i can walk down the street and buy products for bitocin
cerelenius: you never have to touch the euro to get rid of dollars
mjr_: so i am missing something i guess
cerelenius: mjr LOL where?
cerelenius: shrems bar?
mjr_: in panama
cerelenius: hotdogs?
Vexual: 700k and a fresh passport
cerelenius: the price of them collapses if you start selling
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.11052505 = 2.6526 BTC [-] {6}
jurov: cerelenius: you'd have problems with paper dollars of higher denominations, too
mjr_: terrae
mjr_: my fave restaurant
mjr_: thats where i am
mjr_: btw
mjr_: not nyc
mjr_: but sure, there i could go to evr
mjr_: or use bitcoin on foodler
mjr_: or use gyft
mjr_: same as the dollar yes
mjr_: or antyhing else
Vexual: man who walk sideways through security always going to bang cock
mjr_: anything when you sell enough, goes down in value
jurov: and don't let me start about credit cards
cerelenius: mjr the price starts collapsing
mjr_: since it means demand has gotten smaller
cerelenius: the larger size you do
mjr_: yes, just like it would with dollars
cerelenius: no it wont
mjr_: or anything on earht
cerelenius: theres nobody on the planet
cerelenius: that can tank the dollar market
mjr_: ok, say everyone in the world does not want dollars for oil
mjr_: they won't accept dollars for oil
cerelenius: someone else will need them
mjr_: no change to the dollars value?
cerelenius: to pay debt off.
mjr_: no
MisterE: freefalling
mjr_: since debt can be denominated in anything
mjr_: i can have a euro backed devt
mjr_: or a yen backed debt
cerelenius: majority of debt is denominated in dollars
MisterE: when stamp hits 425 I'll buy
mjr_: that is something called "competing currencies" you should look it up
mjr_: thats nice
MisterE: oh will you 2 get a room already :p
cerelenius: misterE you missed your chance
KRS-One: MisterE: you wont want to do that
KRS-One: lower..
mjr_: you are saying "this is the way it HAS to be" and proving that "this is the way it IS"
MisterE: really?
KRS-One: i think
MisterE: too uch support at 400
mjr_: if no one wants dollars
mjr_: the dollar is worthless
cerelenius: the bottom was in
KRS-One: recheck your analysis
mjr_: if no one wants bitcoin, bitcoin is worthless
mjr_: in other words
MisterE: if it breaks 400 it's a rout
mjr_: the value is set by the supply and demand of the item in question
cerelenius: tripple bottom off the late december lows
KRS-One: cerelenius: there is over $11 million loaned out on long positions..they're going to get squeezed out
mjr_: regardless of whether it was issued by a govt, mined on a blockchain, or came out of my ass
MisterE: I dont think traditional SA applies to CC charts
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: KRS-One: what site
KRS-One: sry bitfinex
mjr_: bitfinex of course
mjr_: is there another site with lending?
MisterE: winkidex
KRS-One: i think btc.sx
KRS-One: 10:1!
KRS-One: nuts huh
mjr_: oh really
mjr_: crazy
mjr_: can you short 10:1
mjr_: ?
mjr_: :)
MisterE: that'll get you in trouble
KRS-One: yeah i wouldnt touch it though
mjr_: me neither
cerelenius: doesnt it auto liquidate
mjr_: the variance is too high
mjr_: it would
KRS-One: it'll hodl
mjr_: bitfinex does
cerelenius: what happens when your underwater then?
mjr_: trims positions, no?
cerelenius: thats what i just asked
Vexual: cie
KRS-One: hmm check i could be wrong
mjr_: i am betting they have some sort of autoliquidation
cerelenius: krs one you cant do 10:1 shorting with btc where are they borrowing them from
cerelenius: what 0.1 btc
mjr_: there is no other way to avoid that scenario
cerelenius: you can only do btc in tiny sizes
mjr_: i mean, you CAN do whatever you want
cerelenius: its too illiquid for anything else
Vexual: you have personality disorder
cerelenius: no you cant nobody will lend you 10x btc
cerelenius: theyd go bankrupt
mjr_: sure they would
KRS-One: check for yourself
cerelenius: where?
mjr_: you seem to use the word can and can't in strange ways
cerelenius: im talking about size
cerelenius: 500btc 1000btc
mjr_: that aren't the ways the rest of us use them
cerelenius: not 0.005
mjr_: yeah...
Vexual: big, all over
mjr_: so, i can go bankrupt, right?
mjr_: which means i can lend coins in whatever size i wanted
cerelenius: mjr someone giving you 10:1 leverage
mjr_: i WOULDN'T
cerelenius: why not
mjr_: that is different from CAN'T
cerelenius: becuase youd go bust dumbass
mjr_: like i said variance is too high
mjr_: peaks and troughs
mjr_: i think that actually is why we disagree
cerelenius: your an idiot, bitcoins main issue is piss poor liquidity and overall tiny market
mjr_: because you keep using the word HAS TO and CAN and CANNOT and IMPOSSIBLE
Vexual: you're begging for 50k
mjr_: to things that i have seen happen
mjr_: it cannot be impossible if i've seen it
Vexual: weird mother fucker
mjr_: or else we just throw logic right out
cerelenius: listen pal, every credit instrument in bitcoin will bust out sooner then later
mjr_: yeah
cerelenius: thats what happens under a deflationary system
mjr_: have you heard of this thing called the pink sheets
mjr_: its an otc market
cerelenius: your prof tell you that?
mjr_: it also has poor liquidity
mjr_: so that means equities will never work
cerelenius: yea its the junk market.
mjr_: because otc markets are illiquid
cerelenius: lol 99% of the otc market is junk
mjr_: ok
mjr_: i don't care
mjr_: you are saying that because of POOR exchanges
mjr_: bitcoin MUST be illiquid
cerelenius: i didnt say why
cerelenius: im saying it is
mjr_: there is no world in which bitcoin is not illiquid
mjr_: i agree
mjr_: but since i have the ability to picture other markets
mjr_: which have matured
mjr_: i can picture a market for bitcoin that is not ililquid
mjr_: and that does function efficiently
mjr_: like for example forex
cerelenius: bitcoin is too illiquid to function as anything other then a speculative tool, in terms of money in only functions as such in cybercrime for example because there are NO alternatives.
mjr_: right NOW
mjr_: but you just said that you were talking about the way it is now
mjr_: it could be different
mjr_: it has been different
mjr_: it has changed a lot
cerelenius: only thing giving btc liquidity is cybercrime
mjr_: and you seem to think that time doesn't exist
mjr_: ah
cerelenius: its not nerds meeting up with pennys underneath a tree
mjr_: of course
mjr_: so playboy
mjr_: tigerdirect
cerelenius: trading 50 dollars
mjr_: which tree do they meet up at?
cerelenius: tigerdirect is zero sum
Vexual: ah theres only one fuck this mad
Vexual: ciao bellas
mjr_: you said "cannot function"
cerelenius: they dont accept btc they accept bitpay
mjr_: same diff
cerelenius: they settle in DOLLARS
cerelenius: not bitcoin
mjr_: since I AM PAYING WITH BITCOIN
cerelenius: yes its no different then selling them at an exchange for usd
cerelenius: and then paying with usd
mjr_: i could give two shits what happens between me paying bitcoin and getting the product i want
mjr_: thats nice
mjr_: what did i pay with?
cerelenius: tigerdirect means zero.
mjr_: what did i get?
mjr_: i again, don't care
mjr_: i pay with the currency i chose
mjr_: and get the product i wanted
mjr_: you don't understand the diference between today's bitcoin and the inherent properties of bitcoin
Vexual: cerelenius, can you give me a quote on dogs?
mjr_: bitcoin is not limited to illiquidity
cerelenius: dogs?
mjr_: it is illiquid right now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.0053136 = 0.4517 BTC [+] {4}
cerelenius: mjr: it will always be illiquid.
mjr_: like for example twitter shares were illiquid
Vexual: yes, ive got some things here and im trying to decide
mjr_: or facebook, and now, they are MORE liquid
mjr_: funny how things change...
mjr_: ugh
cerelenius: yea and in bitcoin they dont.
mjr_: you are such an idiot...
mjr_: of course
mjr_: it is JUST as illiquid as it was in 2009
cerelenius: bitcoin will always be a niche place
mjr_: obviuosly
mjr_: you said that its state of liquidity is fixed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 42 @ 0.00539182 = 0.2265 BTC [+] {4}
mjr_: or are you going to change what you said again
mjr_: oh ok
cerelenius: its state of liquidity will always be poor
mjr_: so it can become MORE liquid
mjr_: at what point will it cease being able to become more liquid
cerelenius: it will never be liquid enough
mjr_: what is its inherent liquidity barrier
cerelenius: look its 2014
mjr_: since there must be one
dignork: cerelenius enough for what?
cerelenius: and we have 40% daily swings occuring
mjr_: since at some point it cannot become more liquid
mjr_: thats nice
mjr_: i don't care
mjr_: could bitcoin become MORE liquid tomorrow
mjr_: if it can, then it could keep doing so...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 610 @ 0.00539989 = 3.2939 BTC [+] {3}
mjr_: and that is what you don't get
cerelenius: dignork: enough for it to be used as settlement without having to go through shit like bitpay
mjr_: the issues you bring up have nothing to do with bitcoin
mjr_: but rather immature markets for ANYTHING
cerelenius: nobody outside of cybercrime(gambling,porn,frauds) settles in bitcoin
cerelenius: and those that do do it from necessity
cerelenius: not because they want to lol
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: im not talking about your little nerd with 0.01 balance
mjr_: your argument for the dollar was its "necessity"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 24 @ 0.00539989 = 0.1296 BTC [+] {4}
dignork: cerelenius in some countries you can't settle for USD, you have to go through exchange, so what?
mjr_: because we couldn't have debts without it
mjr_: yeah
Apocalyptic: cerelenius, i lol'd
KRS-One: cerelenius: according to btc.sx faq: For each position opened, btc.sx will execute an open market order at over x10 the value of your deposit.
mjr_: there is this thing called "international trade"
cerelenius: dignork: right
Vexual: get off the couch cerel
mjr_: you do know they don't use dollars everywhere
KRS-One: It is important to remember that losses can also be multiplied however losses will never exceed your deposit.
mjr_: right?
mjr_: in other words they will autoliquidate you
cerelenius: dignork: im talking about nobody settles for anything other then fiat at the moment in btc, OTHER then those groups i outlined
KRS-One: yea
cerelenius: krs-one: yea so they have some protection in place
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 650 @ 0.0054 = 3.51 BTC [+] {4}
KRS-One: there is also no control over this =/
mjr_: protection? yeah, you can only lose all your money
cerelenius: tigerdirect adopted bitpay not bitcoin lol
mjr_: you are fully "protected"
dignork: cerelenius i'm not a "cybercriminal" and for some transactions I settle for btc, problem?
mjr_: don't bother
cerelenius: dignork what did i say?
cerelenius: tiny ass ammounts
mjr_: for every obvious real world example
KRS-One: tiny
mjr_: he will dismiss it
cerelenius: the problem with adopting bitpay or coinbase
chetty: I settle with btc, and I am not a criminal either
cerelenius: is you can never offer clients huge discounts
mjr_: he is wrong about pretty every statement, goes back and says he didn't mean "ALL"
mjr_: i do as well
cerelenius: you can offer 1-2%
mjr_: we all probably settle using bitcoin
mjr_: mircea does
mjr_: jurov does
Vexual: wanna learn?
cerelenius: mircea is part of the fraud category lol
dignork: cerelenius nonsense, discounts are based on your sales strategy, btc or not
cerelenius: dignork: merchants are adopting bitpay/coinbase to tap into the btc liquidity and the free publicity they get, nobody is settling in btc outright
mjr_: so it seems that it is possible
mjr_: you see a dog swimming, you think that dogs are aquatic creatures
mjr_: that is the problem
mjr_: exactly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00548 = 2.74 BTC [+] {4}
mjr_: i will sell my products for the amount of currency i want
mjr_: at no point have you ever shown me an example of how it is different to buy something with a dollar and a bitcoin
mjr_: as far as price setting
cerelenius: who settles in btc on a larger scale? gambling sites, porn, strange "finance" operations etc.
cerelenius: they do it out of necessity
mjr_: we listed multiple people who do settle
mjr_: and they only settle using dollars "out of necessity"
cerelenius: you listed nobody.
cerelenius: mircea cant use fiat
mjr_: ugh
mjr_: he can
cerelenius: no he cant lol
mjr_: and i've seen him do it
cerelenius: he cant run his exchange with fiat
mjr_: he paid for our coffees using fiat if i remember correctly
mjr_: he COULD
cerelenius: im talking about his business
mjr_: but he doesn't want to
mjr_: since the whole point is moving past fiat
cerelenius: mjr you are a child probably 20 years old
mjr_: lol
mjr_: your googling skills must suck
cerelenius: you are obvlivious
mjr_: you are oblicous
mjr_: this is simple stuff
mjr_: if i want to sell my car
cerelenius: bitcoin will never work on a large scale
cerelenius: you can be guaranteed that
mjr_: in your opinion
mjr_: and no ican't
mjr_: you cannot guarantee that
cerelenius: the market cap will fluctuate
mjr_: yes
mjr_: like every asset on earth
chetty: hey how about a bet?
cerelenius: between 10-50bil dependant on cybercrime
mjr_: it will behave like every asset on earth
cerelenius: price wise thats between 500-2500
mjr_: that is a large scale
mjr_: depends on what you meant
mjr_: since its under 10 now
cerelenius: the world is not running out of crypto
mjr_: you are talking about a 5X increase
Vexual: nor fiat
mjr_: the world isn't running out of fiat
mjr_: ugh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.00549555 = 1.0167 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: just take everything you say, change the word bitcoin to dollar
cerelenius: you can come back here in 5 years
mjr_: and you come up with the same thing
cerelenius: and btc wont be far from where it is
mjr_: which means it won't have failed?
mjr_: people will still be using iut
cerelenius: it wont fail in the sense of going to zero
mjr_: they will still be settling debts
cerelenius: it will fail in mass adoption
Vexual: no bitcoiners have jumped off something high
cerelenius: a niche market
mjr_: ok
mjr_: you know that by your standards
mjr_: the dollar has failed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00549585 = 0.6045 BTC [+] {3}
mjr_: since the dollar has not been adopted by the vast majority of people on earth
cerelenius: well yes the dollar is a failure its a defaulted on promise to pay gold
mjr_: its a niche market
mjr_: but we use em
mjr_: and it works for now
cerelenius: the dollar is accepted by the vast majority lol
mjr_: no
Vexual: things change cere, the world keeps turning
mjr_: it isn't accepted in europe
mjr_: or china
cerelenius: the chinese yuan is defacto backed by dollars
dignork: cerelenius gosh, gold defaulted on promise to be a currency, your point?
cerelenius: via US treasury debt
Vexual: fuck off
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.0054989 = 2.7495 BTC [+]
cerelenius: dignork: the same way bitcoin will because of what i outlined earlier in the chat. a tiny tiny % of holders will be filthy rich while everyone else is filthy poor
cerelenius: that will always be btc
Vexual: juest like usd
Vexual: its called moeny
cerelenius: both are different sides of the same coin
dignork: cerelenius this will be the case anyhow, nature laws...
dignork: unrelated to btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
cerelenius: its related to btc because as people WORK hard to build the ecosystem and create purchasing power, it gets siphoned off by the large holders
cerelenius: its not nature laws lol
cerelenius: its man laws
Vexual: man in the image of god
mjr_: or japan
mjr_: or africa
mjr_: its accepted in the US
mjr_: which is why i think they say US on them
mjr_: the vast majority of people in the world may never touch a dollar
mjr_: or have one in a bank account
mjr_: so they haven't adopted it
mjr_: so if only a few people use bitcoin to transact their business, it'll be the same as the romanian lei
mjr_: which is still a currency
mjr_: that is used by people
mjr_: to buy things, sell things, and to pay off debts
mjr_: there is no fundamental difference so far to bitcoin, you seem to think that gox is part of bitcoin or something
chetty: I am curious, why come here and argue cerelenius, whats in it for you?
mjr_: trolls love to get fed
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: chetty: im not argueing
mjr_: this is ridiculous
mjr_: you do realize i could cease accepting dollars tomorrow right?
cerelenius: im pointing out whats painfully obvious for anyone who can deductively reason
mjr_: yes
mjr_: and if no one wants dollars...
cerelenius: i explained to you what gives dollars a bid
Vexual: you're not trolling, i wrote the book. you have personality disorder
cerelenius: you are going round in a circle
mjr_: or i guess to put it in simple terms "to the extent to which someone wants a currency, based on how much of it there is, that will define its value"
cerelenius: btc will make a handful rich and everyone else will wake up one day realizing they benefited NOTHING from it
mjr_: dollars value: supply and demand
mjr_: bitcoin value: supply and demand
mjr_: i am not seeing the difference
cerelenius: dollar demand is always higher then supply
cerelenius: or else it would be worthless
cerelenius: bitcoin is not the same
Vexual: so too bc
jurov: cerelenius how did i benefit from dollars?
chetty: well the fed isn't printing btc by the bucket load
jurov: i never had any
mjr_: to the extent i want dollars, i will allow people to pay me in dollars
cerelenius: jurov: im not argueing the fiat system being better
mjr_: no...
cerelenius: they are both BAD monetary systems
Vexual: money good
mjr_: you don't understand monetary systems
mjr_: it would seem
mjr_: you seem to think they obey some law
cerelenius: no you do
cerelenius: supply/demand lol
dignork: cerelenius create GOOD monetary system that suits you
Vexual: yo mama
mjr_: no, i think that the market sets their value
cerelenius: i told you i can throw trillions of dollars around and nothing happens
mjr_: so waht
cerelenius: and the proof is bernanke doing it
mjr_: yeah absolutely nothing happening
mjr_: i mean
cerelenius: whats happening?
mjr_: its like i can still buy a hamburger for a nickel
Vexual: were feeding you
cerelenius: why is gold/oil all below their highs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00088238 = 30.0892 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.10350208 = 0.3105 BTC [-] {2}
cerelenius: despite all the fiat printing
mjr_: its like the CPI has never moved
mjr_: ok
cerelenius: mjr: when debts become so large, inflation is impossible
mjr_: that is simply answered
cerelenius: deflation begins
mjr_: lol its always possible
mjr_: you are saying that a dollar cannot become worth lesss
cerelenius: it can yes
cerelenius: under a political crisis
mjr_: ok then
mjr_: so it could still inflate further
mjr_: this is basic
cerelenius: but we are no where near that lol
cerelenius: any dollar inflation is followed by deflation
mjr_: mjr: when debts become so large, inflation is impossible
cerelenius: hence boom/bust
cerelenius: mjr: yes
mjr_: except then you said "yes it can inflate further
cerelenius: sure incremental steps
mjr_: which means, perhaps you don't understand what impossible means
mjr_: i think that must be it
cerelenius: look oil was 150 in 2007
cerelenius: its 100 today
Vexual: wrong
cerelenius: despite 5 trillion of fed printing
mjr_: it means "CANNOT HAPPEN EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"
mjr_: thats nice
cerelenius: under the credit money system it cant
mjr_: see, its super simple
mjr_: it can
Vexual: wha?
mjr_: there are 3 apples
cerelenius: you couldnt even cut enough trrees
mjr_: and 3 dollars
cerelenius: to produce the paper to print on in time
mjr_: each apple costs 1 dollar
jurov: cerelenius the money was not actually printed
mjr_: if i print a trillion
cerelenius: jurov yes i know i said that already.
mjr_: the apples still sit there
cerelenius: it was lent into existence
Vexual: no you didnt
dignork: ok, so now we're discussing dollars, why?
jurov: the banks that got it returned it to fed or bought back bonds
mjr_: the value asymptotically approaches 0
mjr_: he apparently thinks that math doesn't apply to dollars or something
jurov: if it got really released into circulatoin, insta hyperinflation
cerelenius: jurov lol it cant get released into circulation
mjr_: like if i print more, but still have the same basket of goods, at a certain point, i can buy more
jurov: so your reasoning is deeply flawed
cerelenius: it has to be LENT into circulation
mjr_: yes
cerelenius: you need both borrowers and lenders
mjr_: yes, that is exactly it jurov
cerelenius: borrowers were too broke to borrow anymore
mjr_: and if no one wants to borrow
mjr_: ok thjen
cerelenius: the banks couldnt lend it becuase there was no collateral left
cerelenius: they could only lend against the LAST remaining collateral
mjr_: they can lend without collateral
Vexual: broke borrowers being you celerius
cerelenius: which was US government bonds
dignork: cerelenius you can (will have to) release it into pension funds
cerelenius: hence why they bought bonds
dignork: no lending
mjr_: again who cares
cerelenius: hyperinflation = political crisis
cerelenius: the US is nowhere near that
jurov: so there 5 trillions are as good as non existing
Vexual: is anyone lending to you?
mjr_: who cares
cerelenius: jurov: those 5 trillions have to be repaid
mjr_: so your saying that the value of the dollar depends on how many of them their are
Vexual: like your aunt
cerelenius: they are inflationary when created
cerelenius: but DEFLATIONARy for rest of their life
mjr_: at no point does a currency become SO worthless that it gets value
cerelenius: because they have to be repaid with interest
mjr_: no they don't
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00549979 = 0.2255 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: you seem to think that magically dollars appear to pay back debts
cerelenius: you do
mjr_: but there is this thing called bankruptcy
Vexual: failure
mjr_: where the money (shocker) NEVER gets paid back
Vexual: ryernal
cerelenius: yea it doesnt work on a soveriegn level
mjr_: and guess what
mjr_: it has before
Vexual: it does
mjr_: obvoiusly
cerelenius: lol when?
mjr_: um...
Vexual: its eternal
cerelenius: the US government cannot go bankrupt
mjr_: i have heard of 0 countries being removed from the planet because they went broke
mjr_: so...
cerelenius: you would have a total implosion of the worldwide banking system
mjr_: thats nice
mjr_: i dno't care
cerelenius: mjr your going on ignore
mjr_: make something of value
mjr_: trade it to someone else for something of value
dignork: cerelenius market crashes, happened like 5 times in last 10 years, each time tons of usd where DELETED
mjr_: if you can do those two things
cerelenius: dignork: yes exactly
mjr_: youll be fine
mjr_: all the buillshit that goes on, is irrelevant
cerelenius: dignork: during debt collapse, USDs get deleted and the left over ones swell in value
dignork: nobody repayed them, they just vanished
mjr_: make something of value, and the rest doesn't matter
cerelenius: dignork: yep thats what happened in 08
mjr_: you can hand wave about financial instruments it doesn't change reality
cerelenius: one day people are going to wake up and see their bank accounts reduced by 95%
mjr_: thats nice
cerelenius: the only thing that will hold up will be paper USDs
dignork: ok, so they don't have to be repid, right?
mjr_: are you saying that no one will be able to then buy berak?
mjr_: bread?
jurov: cerelenius most people in US have actually negative balances
dignork: *repaid
cerelenius: dignork: no they can be defaulted on
jurov: so no problem there
MisterE: people are jumping in btc-e trollbox haha
mjr_: that is what you don't get...if i took away 90% of the wealth of the entire world...the system wouldn't have changed at all
cerelenius: mjr one thing i know is youll be poor and stupid forever
mjr_: since wealth and currency are relative
cerelenius: so you are right
mjr_: lol
jurov: they can't take bank accounts balances like in eu
mjr_: if you have 10 dollars, and everyone else has 2
jurov: because americans don't have any
mjr_: you are a "tenionaire"
cerelenius: jurov: it depends what class of americans
jurov: it evens out, richer have just bigger mortgages
mjr_: yeah
cerelenius: its difficult to take balances in america because america tends to have stronger rule of law then most of europe
mjr_: average american up to 150k can't come up with 2 grand by month end
cerelenius: even todate
cerelenius: as bad as the US is
mjr_: you seem to think, and correct me if i'm wrong, that money serves a purpose outside of me buying things with it
cerelenius: europe has a stronger history of fascism
jurov: well, they'll take the home instead
jurov: er..."foreclose"
cerelenius: mjr: no i dont think that, the system does hence its FLAW
mjr_: while true jurov
mjr_: thats nice
cerelenius: mjr: money is sterile, people think if they put money in a bank vault it will have children
mjr_: i saw a hammer that thought it was a screwdriver
cerelenius: and bitcoin is sterile too
mjr_: i used it to hammer nails
mjr_: worked fine
mjr_: those people are stupid
cerelenius: everyone who gained in bitcoin there has to be a equal loser
mjr_: not true
cerelenius: its ZERO sum
mjr_: no it isn't
mjr_: here is the basis of money
cerelenius: yes it is
mjr_: there is a fixed amount of "stuff" in the world
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.00549979 = 0.9955 BTC [-]
cerelenius: 1% of bitcoins cannot be spent without the market going to zero
mjr_: i may want some of it
cerelenius: or close to zero
mjr_: wrong
mjr_: obvoiusly
cerelenius: 1% of btc is 210,000btc
cerelenius: go spend that
mjr_: if i want some of the stuff, i trade some of the stuff i have
mjr_: ok
mjr_: i could buy 210,000 worth of doge coin
cerelenius: most peoples bitcoin wealth is unspendable paper gain
jurov: cerelenius, just go to mircea and buy some s.mpoe for 210k bitcoins
jurov: no problem there :)
mjr_: which would push the price up to wher ebitcoin is
MisterE: lost 750K BTC oops
mjr_: you can spend it
cerelenius: haha jurov
mjr_: if someone is wililng to accept it
cerelenius: the bitcoin market would implode
cerelenius: thats what would happen
mjr_: no it wouldn't
cerelenius: yes it would lol
mjr_: you have x tokens, and y "things"
mjr_: there is a ratio of x to y
mjr_: that is money
cerelenius: whats with the elementary school examples
mjr_: you cannot understand anything more advanced yet
mjr_: so stick to the basicsa
dignork: cerelenius so if i pay wages in BTC it will implode? elaborate
cerelenius: you dont understand that bitcoin is zero sum
cerelenius: its a sterile asset
mjr_: because it isn't
cerelenius: it doesnt produce anything on its own
mjr_: its not supposed to
cerelenius: it can always only make a tiny tiny % rich
mjr_: its supposed to represent a certain portion of actual things in the real world which i may want
cerelenius: at the expense of everyone else
mjr_: not true
mjr_: its like the rules of logic don't apply to you
mjr_: its not 0 sum
dignork: cerelenius it's cash, why should it produce value?
mjr_: exactly
mjr_: i have no clue if he understand that
cerelenius: dignork: it isnt cash. its a virtial commodity
mjr_: 3 apples, 3 bitcoins
mjr_: each apple = 1 bitcoins
cerelenius: dignork: cash has a tight bid/ask spread bitcoin has a wide one
mjr_: no
mjr_: that is the situoation right now
mjr_: that is like saying
mjr_: humans have 2 arms
mjr_: oh that is a guy with one arm, not human
mjr_: in other words, idiotic
cerelenius: mjr it will always be the situation
dignork: cerelenius got to forex and lo, currencies with low volumes have large spreads
mjr_: no it won'
mjr_: t
mjr_: exactly
mjr_: the relative demand will basically set the bid ask spread (since bitcoins supply grows at a fixed rate)
mjr_: if half the world chose to use bitcoin
cerelenius: i already explained bitcoin has 2 sources of demand 1) speculative and 2) settlement, break down what settlement means and you get mostly black market activities and maybe 5% of little bits and pieces
mjr_: the bid ask spread would be tighter than the dollar
mjr_: FOR NOW
cerelenius: everytime a merchant adopts bitpay or coinbase
mjr_: you stupid troll
cerelenius: its just another cashout option
mjr_: ok
mjr_: again irrelevant
cerelenius: it means nothing
mjr_: BITPAY says they want bitcoin
mjr_: they will ACCEPT bitcoin
cerelenius: whats important is adoption by people who actually settle in btc
cerelenius: in size
mjr_: meaning they are trading bitcoin for soething
cerelenius: bitpay doesnt accept shit they just broker a trade
mjr_: how is that important, you said it is impossible for it to work
cerelenius: they are like a one way exchange
mjr_: ok...
cerelenius: they are never exposed to bitcoin
mjr_: if i wanted an apple
mjr_: i send bitcoin
mjr_: i get an apple
cerelenius: which is sold to someone for usd
cerelenius: and then that pays for the apple
mjr_: ...
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: there has to be a willing BID
cerelenius: at all times
dignork: cerelenius if btc is good only for storage, it'd be worthless
mjr_: almost like if you paid pesos for it?
mjr_: from mexico?
cerelenius: dignork: no your misunderstanding me
mjr_: how could that system possibly work?
dignork: any currency is worthless as a value storage
mjr_: yeah
cerelenius: certain things on the internet have to use bitcoin becuase of necessity
mjr_: which is why bank balances are worht 0
cerelenius: like cybercrime and those gambling sites
mjr_: UGH
cerelenius: thats where bitcoins BID comes from
mjr_: and certain people have to use dollars out of necessity
cerelenius: those guys do massive size
mjr_: you are not describing anything different between bitcoin and dollars
cerelenius: you really think bitcoins value is from guys like mjr buying $20 in a forest?
dignork: cerelenius i used btc to move small amount of cash between two coutries
cerelenius: its from people who settle in it, in SIZE
chetty: If all the dollars in the world went poof tomorrow there would still be as many apples :)
mjr_: if there are 500 million of them buying 20
mjr_: yep
cerelenius: dignork: yes "small"
mjr_: thanks chetty
dignork: just because tx fees on wire transfer where much higher
mjr_: that is the point
cerelenius: thats not enough for a 10bil market cap
mjr_: there is STILL things around me
mjr_: things i may want to buy
mjr_: if there was one bitcoin
mjr_: it would be irrelevant to the number of things
dignork: cerelenius lol, check evaluation for western union and such
cerelenius: dignork: your transfer was zero sum
mjr_: i can "map" the number of bitcoins onto any number of things
mjr_: and find a ratio
cerelenius: you bought btc and sold it you didnt settle in it
cerelenius: thats not whose providing a bid for btc lol
mjr_: thhat is money
cerelenius: its the guys settling in it
cerelenius: and i broke down who is settling in btc
mjr_: i don't care what they do after i paid for the product i purcahsed
cerelenius: as of 2014
mjr_: thats like saying
cerelenius: lol after? you mean during
mjr_: the restaurant owner is just going to use his dollars to pay his accountant
dignork: cerelenius, you with your settlement, i got btc and payed it for a coffe
cerelenius: bitcoin did not pay for your purchase go ask tigerdirect for a bitcoin refund
dignork: i didn't settlem coffe shop did
cerelenius: they will give you a dollar one
mjr_: which could be handled by bitpay in reverse
cerelenius: no it cant
mjr_: they are pegging the value to the dollar
cerelenius: if the exchange rate changed you are taking a loss
mjr_: i think you are mixing up a numeraire with something else
mjr_: so...
cerelenius: mjr you are clueless pal
cerelenius: go ask for a refund se ewhat they say
mjr_: have you heard of fx risk?
cerelenius: what they send you
cerelenius: i twont be bitcoin lol
dignork: cerelenius you are in US, paying to chinese company for some product
dignork: in the middle there is a conversion to their curremcy
cerelenius: dignork: i agree the payment network(blockchain) is excellent
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.0054998 = 0.385 BTC [+]
dignork: now you want in refund, but exch rates changed
cerelenius: dignork: the currency doesnt change 50% in a day
cerelenius: exch rate risk is low
dignork: depends on currency and timing
cerelenius: bitpay has zero exposure to bitcoin risk
mjr_: if i bought servers from china
mjr_: and the exchange rate changed i could "take a loss"
mjr_: thats the pointt
mjr_: if you calculate your gains and losses in bitcoin
mjr_: then hedge bitcoin
cerelenius: they are connected to major exchanges
cerelenius: and just instantly sell them
cerelenius: you cant hedge bitcoin
mjr_: if you calculate losses in dollars
mjr_: then hedge dollars
BingoBoingo: Argentina might have something to say about exchange rates moving...
mjr_: if you dno't want fx risk to hurt you
mjr_: you hedge so you end up with what you wanted
cerelenius: theres nobody in the world dumb enough to sell insurance against it
mjr_: which is why futures markets are a thing
mjr_: yeah
mjr_: like when you buy a tv on sale
mjr_: and then they wn't give you full price whenyou refund it?
mjr_: oh really
mjr_: i do it everyday
mjr_: tell me how i can't
dignork: cerelenius hence the derivative market, to hedge this
mjr_: lol
cerelenius: where is it?
mjr_: you are obviously an idiot...no one hedges using insurance
cerelenius: mircea? with extremely overpriced options?
mjr_: they use futures
mjr_: or options
cerelenius: options are insurance fool
mjr_: no they aren't
cerelenius: mjr enough.
mjr_: they give you an option
mjr_: to buy something
mjr_: at a certain price
cerelenius: a hedge is insurance.
dignork: cerelenius somebody wrote this options, and somebody bought it
mjr_: insurance automatically PAYS if an event happens
cerelenius: yea like an option lol
mjr_: no
mjr_: you miss the key word
mjr_: OPTION
cerelenius: mjr shutup dude
mjr_: i have the right BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION
cerelenius: go ask tigerdirect for a btc refund
mjr_: you are an idiot
cerelenius: if you paid them in btc
dignork: so you might say stock options are insurances, fine
mjr_: and barely understand how our current system works
cerelenius: they will tell you to fuck off.
mjr_: you don't even know the difference between insurance and an option
cerelenius: dignork: nobody is stupid enough to hedge bitcoin with 50% price swings daily youll go broke.
mjr_: lol
mjr_: what if...
mjr_: i could show you a place that will do it right now
cerelenius: mjr: why wont tigerdirect refund you in btc
mjr_: they don't want to?
cerelenius: mjr: lol mirceas option bot?
dignork: cerelenius lol, previously you claimed mpex has high margins, now deduce why...
mjr_: that is a pretty easy question
mjr_: the option is expensive
Namworld: Fucking people
mjr_: so hedging is expensive
cerelenius: dignork: mpex can go broke.
mjr_: but it exists
mjr_: and you obviously can do it
Namworld: Going on and on and on about the "MtGox PDF"
mjr_: unless you are too retarded to figure it out like cerelenius
MisterE: KRS-One: not going down like expected
mjr_: here is a scenario
cerelenius: mjr right so if a retailer hedges and its super expensive
cerelenius: they lose money lol
mjr_: ok
cerelenius: all their profit margin vanishes
mjr_: your point is...
cerelenius: or they need a high btc price
mjr_: yes
cerelenius: for their item
cerelenius: meaning it cant compete
mjr_: which means that is just the price of bitcoins vs dollars
mjr_: ugh
cerelenius: mjr you are clueless pal
cerelenius: try again
mjr_: yeah
Apocalyptic: <!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
mjr_: i've done it
cerelenius: everyone smart knows it doesnt matter who "adopts" bitpay and coinbase, it means zero for the price
Apocalyptic: if acq = acquisiton ...
mjr_: they are just serving blank page
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 83 @ 0.00530002 = 0.4399 BTC [-] {4}
cerelenius: whats important is those who settle in bitcoin
dexX7: yup, this line is new
Apocalyptic: mjr_, not anymore
Apocalyptic: it's blank in appearance bur source has changed
mjr_: lol
mjr_: i saw it
Duffer1: acq = acquire?
cerelenius: well they are implying a 9-10% chance of recovery
dignork: cerelenius mpex CAN probably go broke, but not because what you;re thinking
cerelenius: dignork: well no he never will hes smarter then that, hell just cancel trades
Apocalyptic: Duffer1, acquisition seems plausible
cerelenius: and blame an error
cerelenius: mircea is too clever to EVER go broke
mjr_: ugh
dignork: basically default, ok, but it's unrelated to options as a mechanism
mjr_: sorry i am going to ignore cerelenius now
Duffer1: unforseen circumstance befalls us all
mjr_: i just can't deal with the stupidity any longer
cerelenius: dignork: if mpex sold a put option big enough even a decline like today would clean them out
cerelenius: if someone excercised it
cerelenius: hed be defaulting
mjr_: while i look for the ignore command
mjr_: that is probably why you don't write options that big
mjr_: and why you'd never program a bot to do so
mjr_: and why you raise money in bonds to cover your trading
mjr_: don't know though, he could have chosen those things at random
cerelenius: yea "bonds"
cerelenius: what mpex does is collect nickles infront of an oncoming train
mjr_: do you remember how much the losses were last april?
cerelenius: by selling options
mjr_: um...
mjr_: \
cerelenius: no i wasnt here
mjr_: but if you sell options on both sides of the train?
mjr_: so you stay delta neutral?
dignork: PROFIT!!!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.058302 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1200 @ 0.00088222 = 1.0587 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11967988 = 0.4787 BTC [+]
mjr_: in case you don't know
mjr_: anyone can create options
cerelenius: like i said mircea is to clever to actually bust out
mjr_: he absorbed losses that were pretty huge
mjr_: last april
cerelenius: you ever see evidence of it?
dignork: mjr_ well, in reality market maker might be not delate neutral
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0583 = 0.1749 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
cerelenius: infact as he ever used the blockchain to provide evidence of anything? or is it all self issued statements
mjr_: well everyone got paid
mjr_: so...
mjr_: dignork: true
mjr_: that is the goal though
mjr_: but that is why the derivs market can be trillions while the actual assets are not that big
mjr_: because the vast majority offset
jurov: http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-april-2013-statement/ cerelenius, you can check the addresses there
ozbot: MPOE, April 2013 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mjr_: so typically mpex bot will probaby not try go either direction, but rather move the price so it maintains a baance
cerelenius: jurov those are bondholder adress's
mjr_: which is what we were talking about
mjr_: bond holders getting paid and taking losses
cerelenius: im talking about payouts to whoever cleaned him for those 20k
mjr_: nah, he didn't do it, and they just accepted it quietly
cerelenius: er -2k
dignork: cerelenius unless he is dead we'd probably hear from him
mjr_: no fuss at all
mjr_: lol
mjr_: but maybe he DID steal 2k coins
mjr_: and no one just thought it was worth bringing jup
cerelenius: thats the irony of mpex, huge btc advocate, zero useage of the blockchain to verify any of his claims
mjr_: yeah he addressed that too
cerelenius: i mean thats what its there for
mjr_: if you, you know, read anything
mjr_: you'd know all this
mjr_: we can hopefully bring you up to speed with enough links i guess
cerelenius: mjr you need to bring yourself up to speed lol
mjr_: or you can just read trilema
mjr_: yourself
cerelenius: im not concerned with mircea, as i said hes clever
cerelenius: you however arent
mjr_: yeah, you were the one who asked if he actually paid out
mjr_: not us
mjr_: so...
mjr_: thats why we answered you?
cerelenius: and nobody produced any evidence of it
cerelenius: you said it was kept quiet
cerelenius: awesome proof lol
mjr_: what i meant was "i'm not worried about mircea"
mjr_: did mircea pay out
mjr_: those statements are not internally consistent
cerelenius: mjr one day your going to wake up broke and hungry, wondering what happened
mjr_: lol
dignork: cerelenius, if mp did not pay we'd probably hear about it
mjr_: you would imagine
mjr_: what if no one complained about gox
Duffer1: you could just ask him to sign from the cold wallet
cerelenius: dignork: thats my point, you cant even verify if the losses are legit.
mjr_: why, the whole problem would just go away
mjr_: um...we know the prices
cerelenius: mircea can decide if bondholders lose or win
mjr_: and the options
dub: yall niggers gettin trolled
cerelenius: as he pleases
mjr_: lol tell me about it du
mjr_: dub
dub: tiberius up in dis
mjr_: is it him again?
mjr_: it sounded like him
cerelenius: im koin3d
mjr_: <disagree> you are poor/young/stupid
cerelenius: i come in here once awhile to troll mircea
mjr_: <evidence of you being wrong> well...i guess thats true <switch to subject x++>
mjr_: just like tiberius
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
cerelenius: how do you ignore with webchat?
mjr_: lol
mjr_: please
cerelenius: done.
mjr_: so about the whole gox thing
mjr_: that is pretty intersting
mjr_: couple interesting theories
Apocalyptic: mjr_, apparently there is an acquisition going on now...
mjr_: they are making it seem worse than it is, so they can bounce back upon releasing "good" news
mjr_: yeah
mjr_: i was involved with a few people trying to make that happen
mjr_: but that was before today
mjr_: i mean 100,000 verified accounts is worth something
mjr_: we were reaching out to them, with some people who i won't name
mjr_: but who had some contacts
Apocalyptic: hum, interesting
Apocalyptic: they declined your offer ?
mjr_: but i don't know anything about it
mjr_: we hadn't gotten that far
dignork: mjr_, gox verified accounts are usefull, but not for gox itself
mjr_: yes
mjr_: exactly
mjr_: this is a classic case of bad management
mjr_: if they were public they would have been taken over long ago
mjr_: since there is a ton of unexploited value
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1818 @ 0.00549983 = 9.9987 BTC [+] {8}
mjr_: i mean, i never thought their shortfall would be a 3/4 of a billion bitcoins though
mjr_: i mean of a billion dollars
mjr_: or whatever the number is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00088336 = 23.2324 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_: but, another theory is that they were hacked and held for ransom
Monarch03: guys, can I somehow filter messages from @assbot only for HAVELOCK NEOBEE trades? I dont want to see anything else on bitcoin-assets-trades
mjr_: that would be a good explanation for the code appearing in their empty html page
mjr_: i mean...
mjr_: no one can be stupid enough to actually leave your server on and then put that into the production source code
mjr_: so it is intentional by someone
mjr_: one could assume that it was meant to move the bitcoin price...
cerelenius: mjr_: did you meet them under the buttonwood tree?
cerelenius: your contacts that is
mjr_: some people have said there is increased buying in china...so that could be the source of a hacking attack
mjr_: we mostly talk via encrypted chat
dexX7: Monarch03: go to #HavelockInvestments
dexX7: there is almost no one talking, so it's just you and the havelock tradefeed
Monarch03: I am in #bitcoin-assets-trades for tradefeed, but i dont want to see trades of different stocks, only NEOBEE
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 44 @ 0.00285 = 0.1254 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00549999 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}
mjr_ mute
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00549999 = 0.176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.00459832 = 0.1609 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00088249 = 22.5229 BTC [-] {5}
KRS-One: ;;seen vexual
gribble: vexual was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 18 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <Vexual> its eternal
ozbot: trick daddy chevy - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 59 @ 0.00549998 = 0.3245 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.114 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 920 @ 0.0052572 = 4.8366 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1004 @ 0.00520049 = 5.2213 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 565 @ 0.0052 = 2.938 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 203 @ 0.00514719 = 1.0449 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 745 @ 0.00501653 = 3.7373 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.005 = 0.35 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00500001 = 0.5 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 117 @ 0.00500001 = 0.585 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 64 @ 0.0055 = 0.352 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00500001 = 0.43 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 656 @ 0.005 = 3.28 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 185 @ 0.00543986 = 1.0064 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 344 @ 0.00544773 = 1.874 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00088072 = 22.3703 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 720 @ 0.00546882 = 3.9376 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.00549998 = 0.1705 BTC [-] {2}
Neil: Has Gox actually said anything yet? Or is it all just 3rd parties talking?
Neil: I guess you can't say much when you fled Japan over the weekend.
Neil: Bitcoin is fucking 24*7 entertainment, all for free.
Namworld: MtGox hasn't said anything.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0054997 = 0.11 BTC [-]
Namworld: But gox.com was recently acquired by Mark Karpeles. Blank page on mtgox.com shows this source code:
Namworld: <!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
Namworld: That's the only thing official.
Namworld: That you can see for yourself.
Namworld: The rest is all speculation and etc.
Namworld: That pretty much sums it up.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.0054997 = 0.44 BTC [-]
Neil: Fact: colleague at work had 1m JPY on MtGox, was paid to his bank account this morning
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00549978 = 0.4125 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: like they wanted to get rid of JPYs to avoid domestic litigation
jurov: but... what do we know
Namworld: yeah =/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28150 @ 0.00088777 = 24.9907 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 890 @ 0.00086966 = 0.774 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1680 @ 0.00086994 = 1.4615 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 800 @ 0.00087076 = 0.6966 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 4929 @ 0.00087477 = 4.3117 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 3282 @ 0.00088224 = 2.8955 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.00088799 = 1.776 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00088552 = 14.9653 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 756 @ 0.000889 = 0.6721 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.10768512 = 2.6921 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 20 @ 0.11471414 = 2.2943 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 100 @ 0.00285 = 0.285 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00088346 = 9.7181 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00549995 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00549997 = 0.5445 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 19 @ 0.02189999 = 0.4161 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 72 @ 0.00549999 = 0.396 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.00549999 = 0.297 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06149999 = 0.3075 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.114899 = 0.5745 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00549999 = 0.275 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 8 @ 0.02199999 = 0.176 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 244 @ 0.000889 = 0.2169 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.02199999 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 751 @ 0.000889 = 0.6676 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00549999 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 210 @ 0.00549999 = 1.155 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00088359 = 16.479 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.00549997 = 0.7535 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 8 @ 0.02199999 = 0.176 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 162 @ 0.00549995 = 0.891 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11101 @ 0.00088451 = 9.8189 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 337 @ 0.00549999 = 1.8535 BTC [+]
ozbot: Element 14 Holding Orders Based On US Government Watch List | EEVblog - The Electronics Engineering
azi`: hm.. this gox fiasco is getting more and more interesting
jurov: azi`: there's some new info?
azi`: jurov: apparently they are missing 750k coins
jurov: Access Denied
azi`: right, but it hints that they have some insovlency document?
azi`: err nevermind
jurov: oh that's the old one
azi`: anyways they stoped trading
azi`: i.e disabled trading
azi`: and this one is weird as well
jurov: yes i know. just wondered something happened in last 2 hours
azi`: not that i'd know
azi`: what you think is going to happen?
azi`: do you*
jurov: someone from gox will have enugh and leak more? karpeles will get detained or injunction issued?
Mallstromm: Karpeles has been spotted getting breast reduction + facial surgery. Reliable sources say he has been negotiating to buy an island in international waters
Mallstromm: probably looking to retire?
jurov: he'll be able to hide easily betwee penguins somewhere near antarctica
chetty: haha yeah forget injunctions, a world full of angry users ....
cazalla: Mallstromm do you have coins on gox?
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 47560.32477655 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 487.0, vol: 113337.81736716 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 486.2, vol: 65120.41363 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 485.0011, vol: 90433.68727634 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 496.61, vol: 453.76762071 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 527.459, vol: 26741.78700000 | Volume-weighted last average: 440.76722333
BingoBoingo: MagicalTux has used the Gox Bitcoin to secure himself passage to the moom
BingoBoingo: Moom being like the Moon except actually made out of cheese.
Mallstromm: cazalla: do i look like a fucking retard?
cazalla: assumed you were due to ad hom
Mallstromm: of course I don't have coins of Gox. Only a retard or a poor clueless noob would have at this time
cazalla: only people who are making those seem to have coins there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.0054999 = 0.209 BTC [-]
Mallstromm: cazalla: I'm just having fun. I left gox for good in August after I requested a SEPA withdrawal of just 30k EUR and after 6 weeks I didn't receive it
cazalla: sounds like you escaped just in time
Mallstromm: there's only a reason for that in my book: fractional reserve. I work with banks and I know by hear that there are no "banking limits"
Mallstromm: if you have the money, you can move it - full stop
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00549999 = 0.242 BTC [+]
cazalla: that's why i don't feel any sympathy for those affected by this
Mallstromm: if you need people to wait 6 weeks before paying them... Is because you have cash-flow problems and you need to cash in before cashing out
Mallstromm: that for an exchange just screams insolvency
cazalla: i really hope they did get ganked for 750k coins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18101 @ 0.00088451 = 16.0105 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05966402 = 0.2983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.106 = 0.53 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {2}
Mallstromm: cazalla: I do believe that there is a small amount of noobs/newcomers who probably just wired money to Gox because it was the best known exchange. I would have researched in forums, etc. as I did when I bought my first coins in 2012
cazalla: if they didn't lose it to gox, they would've lost it to some penny stock anyway
Mallstromm: but I can understand some noob would just send them the money. But people that has been around for months? How come they have been caught with their pants down?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 892 @ 0.00549999 = 4.906 BTC [+] {5}
Mallstromm: Having funds on gox was like playing russian roulette. The risk was huge, and what was the reward?
cazalla: i dunno, surely a noob would do research
jurov: for some ppl i know its like hazard
jurov: can't resist
the20year1: the idea that maybe, just maybe they would let you wire USD or some other currency
the20year1: i asked those questions 6 months ago and every sign was leading to gox insolvency
Mallstromm: of course. hundreds of red flags
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05831239 = 0.2916 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.106 = 0.53 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00088451 = 17.9556 BTC [+]
deadweasel: ha, finally.
the20year1: But for some reason daytrading on gox was important
Mallstromm: I meant, I was a VERY happy Gox customer. I've bought hundreds of coins on there, sub $10. I have wonderful memories of Gox
Mallstromm: but as soon as the red flags are raised... Its just stupid to risk your hard earned money.
jurov: me not
the20year1: and in the past year?
jurov: my very first sepa deposit took over 2 weeks
jurov: and that was 2 years ago
jurov: never again
the20year1: when a company takes 3 months to process a withdraw, something is wrong
Mallstromm: jurov: fuck. I've done at least a dozen deposits to Gox, a couple of them 6 figures of EUR -> and they arrived within one week
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00569229 = 1.7077 BTC [+] {5}
Mallstromm: jurov: seame thing about withdrawals, I had "trusted" status and everything went smooth (and by smooth I mean deposits that arrived to my bank in 2 days) until they weren't
jurov: also successfully used cryptoxchange, tradehill, intersango...now all gone
Mallstromm: what I can tell you is that as soon as I had a +6 weeks delayed withdrawal I left for good. I didn't give them a second chance. There's really no point in risking your hard earned money when the insolvency signals are so strong
Mallstromm: jurov: well, daytrading is risky business indeed. I only daytraded during my "accumulation" phase. Now 90% my funds are in deep cold storage and 0% of them are on third-party services.-
jurov: many people do need that thrill
Mallstromm: I just send the coins to the exchange when I reach my profit-taking targets - to sell them for good and to withdraw the fiat immediately
cazalla: i don't get it though, it doesn't take an intelligent person to figure out this was going to happen sooner or later minus specific details
deadweasel: cazalla, when did bitcoin users = intelligence?
Mallstromm: or, when I want to buy: just today I wired quite an amount to both Bitstamp and Kraken. I'm betting on a shitstorm happening in the media, noobs panic selling and thus I'm ready to buy all the sub-$500 coins I can
jurov: we tried to talk a friend out of it, he sent fiat to gox anyway 2 weeks ago anyway
jurov: it was irresistible for some
Mallstromm: but as soon as I buy the coins I'll transfer directly to cold storage. Daytrading is really not worth it IMO
cazalla: i would bet the average bitcoiner is more intelligent than the average joe
deadweasel: afaik, this chan has told people about the fractional reserve system repeatedly.
jurov: cazalla i would bet againt
deadweasel: in the bitcointalk forums too
Mallstromm: jurov: TheKoziTwo has wired $100k to Gox just two days ago
chetty: Did you see Voorhees admit he got caught with 500+ on gox?
cazalla: jurov: in regards to using a computer i should add
Mallstromm: chetty: probably 500 coins are nothing to Erik. He got paid hundred of thousands for SD
cazalla: chump change for him
Mallstromm: I mean... I also have like 0.0004 (or something like that) left on Gox. Probably 500 coins feels the same to Erik :D
jurov: cazalla computer ability has no relation to risk profile
deadweasel: are they really going to try this rebranding bullshit?
cazalla: deadweasel: people will line up to use it, that's the sad thing
Mallstromm: deadweasel: don't underestimate the general level of retardness
jurov: even if the leaked plan is fake, it portraits their mindset accurately
jurov: they must "save" the bitcoin image at all costs
jurov: because they are bitcoin
deadweasel: they need to commit hara kiri
deadweasel: for btc
cazalla: i guess the new investors assume that whatever amount of goodwill is left in the brand is valued at more than what they are paying
jurov: 700k is very hefty amount of goodwill
cazalla: maybe they won't take the debts on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10076 @ 0.00088628 = 8.9302 BTC [+]
cazalla: karpeles goes out the back door, new outfit in through the front, relaunch on gox.com and play the typical we are not taking on debts and only bought the assets line
jurov: like tradehill? i can see them trying, but dunno
jurov: heh thill is down
cazalla: maybe they'll do a bitinstant - we'll be back any moment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00088451 = 14.5944 BTC [-]
jurov: oh they were already doing it
cazalla: glad i took the gox out of business 2014 bet now
jurov: i took the litecoin one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17924 @ 0.00088628 = 15.8857 BTC [+]
azi`: i am somehow fascinated that they still keep support on irc
azi`: answering patiently to querries
azi`: even karp appears to be on the chan
jurov: like, what do they say?
azi`: the last time i spoke they said they are fixing it but have no ETA
azi`: even karp is not really idle on irc
azi`: i would assume they'd had to run at this point already?
deadweasel: azi`: they are coming around again for another con.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.0056 = 0.14 BTC [-]
azi`: al this is giving me dejavu's about
azi`: full tilt poker when it went down
azi`: identic story
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00574899 = 0.2874 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 24 @ 0.00574899 = 0.138 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 170 @ 0.00575 = 0.9775 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.11588043 = 1.5064 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 105 @ 0.0055 = 0.5775 BTC
cazalla: never liked fulltilt
cazalla: why play anywhere else but stars
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 223 @ 0.00579 = 1.2912 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 23 @ 0.00579 = 0.1332 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 178 @ 0.00579 = 1.0306 BTC [+] {2}
deadweasel: why gamble?
cazalla: it wasn't back in the day
cazalla: average player is much better now so it really isn't +EV
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00579 = 0.579 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00579 = 0.1448 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3762 @ 0.00088704 = 3.337 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00579 = 0.5211 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.00578 = 0.4046 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.00578 = 0.2601 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 246 @ 0.00577953 = 1.4218 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 80 @ 0.00449998 = 0.36 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: Oh, looks like Russia is taking back Crimea
the20year1: ukraine?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00577 = 0.577 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 114 @ 0.00577 = 0.6578 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.005788 = 0.3994 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.005788 = 1.0476 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 978 @ 0.00578852 = 5.6612 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1107 @ 0.0008453 = 0.9357 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 244 @ 0.00579 = 1.4128 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17145 @ 0.00088428 = 15.161 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2500 @ 0.00018944 = 0.4736 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 188 @ 0.00571787 = 1.075 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.005785 = 0.162 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.06149977 = 0.5535 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 89 @ 0.00578981 = 0.5153 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.00555666 = 0.4834 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 23 @ 0.00578999 = 0.1332 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00088562 = 21.7863 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00088708 = 18.6287 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 117 @ 0.00578998 = 0.6774 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.0057899 = 0.3879 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49799998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0057899 = 0.1158 BTC [-]
ozbot: Mt Gox CEO Karpeles says bitcoin exchange is at "turning point" - Yahoo Finance
ThickAsThieves: looking like the doc is real
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.00551579 = 0.1048 BTC [-] {3}
deadweasel: how can you turn when you've smashed into the pavement after a freefall?
ColdHardMetal: the dead Karpeles bounce.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00578405 = 2.892 BTC [+] {4}
ThickAsThieves: when you have a fitness ball to land on, all is good!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00088353 = 2.2972 BTC [-]
jurov: but nobody actually saw anyone fell :D
jurov: mybe golden parachutes were involved
ThickAsThieves: this gif will stand the test of time
jurov: you have seen the gox truck?
ThickAsThieves: loved it
ThickAsThieves: seems like now would also be a good time for a new zhou tong jam
ozbot: loading
ThickAsThieves: even russian mob wagging finger at goc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18013 @ 0.00088346 = 15.9138 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00088662 = 6.1177 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00578965 = 5.7897 BTC [+] {8}
ThickAsThieves: one gox.com NS record points to buy.internettraffic.com
ThickAsThieves: if you then search gox.com it says it's for sale
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.00579989 = 1.0498 BTC [+] {2}
MCM-Mike: did you have a look at the sourcecode , of the index page?
MCM-Mike: <!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 26 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1508 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11599997 = 0.464 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1624 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 291 @ 0.00085481 = 0.2487 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00088326 = 6.1828 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 69 @ 0.00579 = 0.3995 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00088274 = 21.7595 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2018 @ 0.00018498 = 0.3733 BTC [-] {4}
ozbot: SecondMarket to launch first U.S.-based Bitcoin exchange - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blogTerm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05830106 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1085 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: riddled with NSA commenters
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.058301 = 0.1749 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.107 = 0.321 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 227 @ 0.00085746 = 0.1946 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.058301 = 0.1166 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1065 = 0.213 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.005799 = 0.116 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.000865 = 0.2595 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13102 @ 0.00088111 = 11.5443 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: people are so dumb, i have 3 voicemails from a webhosting client asking for my email address, my domain for the business is literally just a logo and an email address
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 647 @ 0.0008801 = 0.5694 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Dear MtGox Customers,
ThickAsThieves: In the event of recent news reports and the potential repercussions on MtGox's operations and the market, a decision was taken to close all transactions for the time being in order to protect the site and our users. We will be closely monitoring the situation and will react accordingly.
ThickAsThieves: Best regards,
ThickAsThieves: MtGox Team"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0583 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1276 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31998 @ 0.0008795 = 28.1422 BTC [-] {2}
Jere_Jones_: ThickAsThieves Where's that from?
cazalla: what does that even mean
cazalla: Jere_Jones_:mtgox.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6102 @ 0.00087836 = 5.3598 BTC [-]
jurov: prolly copied verbatim from some bezzle manual
jurov: like previous announcements
Jere_Jones_: This whole thing makes no sense unless Mark decided to run and the rest of the team is trying to pick up the pieces.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.0057999 = 0.1972 BTC [+]
cazalla: too well known to run
ThickAsThieves: it's a big world
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.11599997 = 0.464 BTC [+]
cazalla: he doesn't look the type to be willing or capable to rough it out for a bit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.11599998 = 0.812 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.11688888 = 0.5844 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: btc-e is down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00087792 = 31.9563 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: havelock too
ThickAsThieves: gonna be a ddos-y day!
mike_c: love those days. bitcoincharts down yet?
mike_c: shockingly no.
Jere_Jones_: Havelock is working fine from here
Apocalyptic: x-bt is fine though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.0057999 = 0.435 BTC [+]
mike_c: knock on wood quick
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.005799 = 0.1102 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: holy crap
ThickAsThieves: tsla at $250
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11749998 = 0.235 BTC [+]
taub_: ahhhhhh
taub_: lmao
taub_: what the fuck
taub_: so
taub_: mtgox is dead for real now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.11749998 = 0.235 BTC [+]
ozbot: MtGox.com loading
Apocalyptic: they have put a ... useless annoucement
ThickAsThieves: again, how can a biz issue PR with no clear message
Apocalyptic: but it's gox so anything is possible at this point
taub_: fuck'em
taub_: hope people get their money out if they still have some in it
jayk: mtgox probably had been cashing out coins all along til they ran out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.005797 = 0.2029 BTC [-]
jborkl_: I was on RTBTC trading when they locked it - it was exactly 8:00 on the dot my time - roughly 15 minutes later they took down the site (if you tried to trade it said trading disabled)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 61 @ 0.005797 = 0.3536 BTC [-] {2}
jborkl_: the price was getting hammered and volume was getting thin, so take what you want from that
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 285 @ 0.005797 = 1.6521 BTC [-]
jborkl_: the price was getting knocked both ways very quickly due to the thin order book
Apocalyptic: ticker is up though
ThickAsThieves: LTC is gonna die I think
ThickAsThieves: i don't think it's got a strong enough signal in all the altcoin noise
jborkl_: Tat, I think you are right on
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00579747 = 0.4986 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13144999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 179 @ 0.00579783 = 1.0378 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Facebook chief depicted as hook-nosed octopus - Europe - Al Jazeera English
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.11749997 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00589228 = 17.6768 BTC [+] {10}
ThickAsThieves: neo gonna hit 6 it seems
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0058 = 0.174 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 428 @ 0.00589955 = 2.525 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0059001 = 0.177 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00596134 = 17.884 BTC [+] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.11749997 = 0.3525 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.1175 = 2.585 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00465 = 0.186 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.06149998 = 0.615 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00464745 = 0.2091 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.0615 = 0.615 BTC [+]
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.06195454 = 0.6815 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: why a screenshot?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0615 = 0.1845 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10600001 = 0.318 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0615 = 0.246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.106 = 0.424 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0615 = 0.123 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00597899 = 0.1794 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06125001 = 0.1225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
mike_c: !t h rent
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (2771 shares, 15.24050000 BTC), 7D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (6234 shares, 34.28700000 BTC), 30D: 0.00550000 / 0.0055 / 0.00550000 (39460 shares, 217.03000000 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.005979 = 0.1853 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.46510003 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 111 @ 0.0058012 = 0.6439 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.106 = 1.272 BTC [-]
dexX7: KRS-One: is this personalized? i don't even see a picture.. only text links somewhere inbetween.. "More woe for Bitcoin exchange Mt.Gox" + "U.S.-based Bitcoin exchange coming"
thestringpuller: there are already 3 us exchanges
thestringpuller: campbx, coinbase, and coinlab
thestringpuller: the 3 c's
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06125 = 0.3675 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.106 = 0.636 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-]
dexX7: coinlab? they are still promoting the mining failure on their website
davout: coinlab isn't an exchange
davout: neither is coinbase strictly speaking
Duffer1: campbx is still alive?
davout: Duffer1: looks like it's surviving, sort of
ThickAsThieves: i thought campbx got banxed
davout: not sure here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34749 @ 0.00087769 = 30.4988 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06249548 = 0.125 BTC [+]
davout: they report 500 BTC volume on bcharts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00580118 = 0.116 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00088173 = 16.0916 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0058012 = 0.174 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06249548 = 0.125 BTC [+]
dexX7: speaking of us bitcoin business. i'm somehow impressed about circle. came out of nothing, did nothing till now, but allaire participated as witness at the senate hearing, they joined the circle against gox etc..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.0053252 = 0.1331 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 63 @ 0.00580119 = 0.3655 BTC [-]
pigeons: why is circle doing nothing impressive?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 43 @ 0.00580119 = 0.2495 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.061252 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.1065 = 0.5325 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: because they don't skateboard
pigeons: use a skate go to prison
thestringpuller: !ticker B.EXCH
assbot: I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who.
Jere_Jones_: lol
thestringpuller: !ticker h B.EXCH
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.EXCH] 1D: 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 (212 shares, 34.40779928 BTC), 7D: 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 / 0.16230094 (678 shares, 110.04003732 BTC), 30D: 0.02010015 / 0.19616302 / 0.24310363 (2798 shares, 548.86413075 BTC)
thestringpuller: sorry assbot :P
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: such low volume
thestringpuller: !ticker h B.MINE
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.MINE] 1D: 0.05700000 / 0.06012384 / 0.06249548 (393 shares, 23.62866718 BTC), 7D: 0.05700000 / 0.0617085 / 0.06849999 (1174 shares, 72.44577658 BTC), 30D: 0.05610001 / 0.08000289 / 0.44000000 (3256 shares, 260.48939362 BTC)
thestringpuller: !ticker h B.SELL
assbot: [HAVELOCK:B.SELL] 1D: 0.10101010 / 0.10790614 / 0.11489900 (156 shares, 16.83335801 BTC), 7D: 0.08500000 / 0.10273955 / 0.11489900 (358 shares, 36.78075930 BTC), 30D: 0.06000001 / 0.11423134 / 0.14990000 (1939 shares, 221.49456512 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.0008822 = 12.7037 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 77 @ 0.00580119 = 0.4467 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: pigeons: are you saying all skaters and rappers are delinquents and should be locked up?
thestringpuller: Wu-Tang has better financial services than Gox :P
pigeons: not should. its a saying from the 80s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 206 @ 0.00580119 = 1.195 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: oh I'm too young to get the reference then
thestringpuller: i didn't know about the beastie boys until 2002
pigeons: its an exaggeration on the supposed oppression of skateboarding
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 69 @ 0.16230094 = 11.1988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
ozbot: A brief history of the DOW jones - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: “We believe that everyone has the right to preserve their heritage”
thestringpuller: oh ThickAsThieves my friend started a Bitcoin business in Tifton
thestringpuller: as an experiment to see if he can educate the local populace
ThickAsThieves: he'll regret it
ThickAsThieves: educating the populace is a thankless, stress-inducing task
ozbot: Why Bitcoin Matters for Bankers - American Banker Magazine Article
ThickAsThieves: "but it was once nearly as important a port as Savannah[according to whom?]"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.06125 = 0.1838 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.30274502 BTC to 2`866 shares, 80347 satoshi per share
ozbot: The Evolution of Protest: The Bay Area Has Been Shaped by Dissent, But No One Can Stand in the Way o
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00088119 = 11.2792 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.06125 = 0.1225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 18 @ 0.106 = 1.908 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06249513 = 0.375 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 636 @ 0.0058008 = 3.6893 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 21 @ 0.00580118 = 0.1218 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0610002 = 0.244 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.106 = 0.424 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 234 @ 0.00580119 = 1.3575 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 68 @ 0.05997501 = 4.0783 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.106 = 0.212 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.0058012 = 0.3075 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.1175 = 0.47 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 14 @ 0.16230094 = 2.2722 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1017 @ 0.00597995 = 6.0816 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 515 @ 0.00597998 = 3.0797 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00597989 = 0.897 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11984 @ 0.00088265 = 10.5777 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11478468 = 0.8035 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 762 @ 0.00597994 = 4.5567 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 457 @ 0.00597989 = 2.7328 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 17 @ 0.0582 = 0.9894 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10896699 = 0.3269 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0582 = 0.2328 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.1060075 = 0.424 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1963 @ 0.00088397 = 1.7352 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 63 @ 0.00597989 = 0.3767 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.16230094 = 0.8115 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 18 @ 0.16230094 = 2.9214 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0582 = 0.1746 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 58 @ 0.00598 = 0.3468 BTC [+]
moiety: mew?
moiety: nubbins`: i think they have died from laughing at gox
nubbins`: people knew it was a bad idea but they put their coins there anyway
nubbins`: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 hour, 12 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <mike_c> !t h rent
mike_c: hey
moiety: hi mike
mike_c: hello!
nubbins`: heyo
nubbins`: mike_c, lurk in #eulora
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 84 @ 0.00598 = 0.5023 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: [14:13:29] <nubbins`> down to only two errors when executing jam on osx, related to duplicate symbols in libfparser
nubbins`: [14:14:05] <nubbins`> had some issues with the Breakpad stuff so ended up commenting it all out for now
mike_c: 2 errors! of course, the last two are always the worst.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 78 @ 0.00598 = 0.4664 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 147 @ 0.00598 = 0.8791 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 850 @ 0.00598 = 5.083 BTC [+]
nubbins`: ah fuck, hot water heater is busted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00598 = 0.1316 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.49377998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 41 @ 0.1175 = 4.8175 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00582646 = 0.1457 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.13099999 = 0.393 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 320 @ 0.00088509 = 0.2832 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 32 @ 0.00597999 = 0.1914 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.00088119 = 6.1243 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.1175 = 2.115 BTC [+]
benkay: is the world less insane today, boys?
nubbins`: ;;seen nubbins`
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 19 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <nubbins`> ah fuck, hot water heater is busted
nubbins`: NO ;(
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 167 @ 0.00598 = 0.9987 BTC [+]
moiety coughs and looks at benkay
benkay: lo moiety
benkay: lo - a wild moiety!
BingoBoingo: ;;seen MtGox
gribble: I have not seen MtGox.
moiety: :) lol and nope the world is not less crazy today benkay!
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
moiety: lolol BingoBoingo
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 36552.87216276 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 508.0, vol: 114074.61626242 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 512.687, vol: 72239.04597 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 509.24, vol: 99344.6243518 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 540.01, vol: 504.57606884 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 530.269393, vol: 27708.25900000 | Volume-weighted last average: 472.216913778
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00581117 = 0.5811 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: gox is dead, correct? dead dead?
BingoBoingo: benkay: Indeed
TomServo: no, no, it's a "turning point" :P
BingoBoingo: Proposal, since Gox last will now always be 135, Instead of Quoting BTC/USD in terms of dollars, it should hence forth be quoted as a percentage of Gox last.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49377998 = 0.9876 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 2 @ 0.06250047 = 0.125 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: MagicalTux has gone to the Moon where he hides in exile with the Doge creators, Trendon Shavers, and Usagi
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.10600001 = 0.212 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088509 = 0.177 BTC [-]
moiety: they have even taken the office plants i hear
pankkake: apple left the "get your phone rooted by a pdf" bug open for a month, so, nothing new
pankkake: also, the java flaw, for months
cads: hey what's a better channel than #math to talk about quantitative stuff?
cads: I have a question about the basic black scholes model
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 165 @ 0.00580119 = 0.9572 BTC [-] {3}
cads: I'm looking at the definition of geometric brownian motion as the sum of a normal brownian motion and a drift function, and I'm having a hard time believing it actually lets us model real world stocks.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 35 @ 0.0055 = 0.1925 BTC
cads: but one of the basic assumptions of the black scholes options valuation model is that the stocks are geometric brownian motions.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00597895 = 0.2392 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 42 @ 0.00597895 = 0.2511 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
cads: so I guess this leads to efforts to quantify and estimate the actual brownian "volatility" in a given stock, given past observations.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 37 @ 0.00597896 = 0.2212 BTC [-] {3}
cads: What gets me is that the other assumptions, like no arbitrage or market friction. seem reasonable and we might expect to weaken the assumptions later.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 163 @ 0.00597895 = 0.9746 BTC [-] {3}
cads: but when it comes to what actually creates the knowledge of the history, we have a brownian motion.
benkay: cads ##econometrics
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1571 @ 0.00017226 = 0.2706 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 59 @ 0.00597896 = 0.3528 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00597897 = 0.1495 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00465 = 0.186 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02199999 = 0.11 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 265 @ 0.00597895 = 1.5844 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Apple issues fix for major security flaw on OS X | The Verge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 112 @ 0.00597899 = 0.6696 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: lovely
nubbins`: wonder will they fix their implementation of clang next ;p
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1884 @ 0.00018548 = 0.3494 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.47000211 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.47000201 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 5 @ 0.13099999 = 0.655 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00597898 = 0.1196 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 618 @ 0.00088509 = 0.547 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 69 @ 0.00464745 = 0.3207 BTC [-]
twizt: lol
ozbot: The Incompetence of MT GOX-How it all began - Imgur
Duffer1: so security very wow
twizt: i dunno y people advocate for web apps
TomServo: Isn't that Jed?
davout: just ftr that was jed, not karpy
twizt: the most unsecure crap ever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 51 @ 0.00597897 = 0.3049 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05935 = 0.1187 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10600001 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00597897 = 0.6577 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.058405 = 0.3504 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.106 = 0.636 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.16230094 = 0.6492 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: mircea_popescu coinpunk.org and coinpunk.com are indeed same folks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00585737 = 0.5857 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0575 = 0.115 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.106 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 125 @ 0.0058 = 0.725 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2841 @ 0.00088008 = 2.5003 BTC [-]
Urushiol: people putting funds in securities for the expected decline?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.00591416 = 0.7097 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0057353 = 1.1471 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00591899 = 0.3551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 17 @ 0.00591901 = 0.1006 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.057 = 0.171 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.106 = 0.318 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 77 @ 0.00591901 = 0.4558 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8860 @ 0.00088029 = 7.7994 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 18 @ 0.00597897 = 0.1076 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00088129 = 15.026 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 223 @ 0.00591903 = 1.3199 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 24 @ 0.1175 = 2.82 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Mt.Gox: Decision was made to close transactions for the time being
ThickAsThieves: Lawsky says gox closing is a good thing, etc
jurov: and the situation will be very closely monitored, don't forget!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 407 @ 0.00591903 = 2.409 BTC [-]
jurov: rest assured :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 490 @ 0.00591925 = 2.9004 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00591391 = 0.2425 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 24 @ 0.0055 = 0.132 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19350 @ 0.0008814 = 17.0551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 480 @ 0.00571002 = 2.7408 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: ;;google site: trileme mtgox fractional reserve
gribble: No matches found.
thestringpuller: ;;google site: trilema.com mtgox fractional reserve
gribble: Grave concerns re MtGox pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2013/grave-concerns-re-mtgox/>; GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/gpg-contracts>; Full Hacker News: <http://www.fullhn.com/>
ThickAsThieves: "Mircea you are one -huge- faggot"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.1175 = 0.235 BTC [+]
ozbot: "I have read your website and it is obviously that your a foggot."
benkay: "yes you will" "no i won't fag"
deadweasel: he's a foghat?
ozbot: Slow Ride- Foghat (Full Version) - YouTube
deadweasel: so, a compliment?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.117 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.00597883 = 0.1315 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6340 @ 0.00087997 = 5.579 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 174 @ 0.00597887 = 1.0403 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00597895 = 0.4484 BTC [+]
deadweasel: .Why, if it isn't my old friend, Mr. McGreg. With a leg for an arm and an arm for a leg..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.00597897 = 0.8251 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.11749131 = 0.8224 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 229 @ 0.00597899 = 1.3692 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00597898 = 0.2989 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: ;;later tell nubbins` ping me for eulorum nameservers
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.00597899 = 1.4947 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 46 @ 0.0055 = 0.253 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.00597897 = 0.5919 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 240 @ 0.00464756 = 1.1154 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00088076 = 31.6193 BTC [+] {2}
dub: real world gox news feedback thus far "so this is a good time to get in right?
Diablo-D3: pretty much.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 214 @ 0.00597897 = 1.2795 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Derps gonna Derp
twizt: lol
twizt: and the banking system is any better
twizt: they are just pissed they couldnt use tax payer funds to bailout gox lol
TomServo: It's a steamboat not a rowboat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.16230094 = 0.4869 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00597896 = 0.1973 BTC [-]
mike_c: regulation is always effective at keeping unsuspecting "consumers" safe in financial markets.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05999998 = 0.12 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 240 @ 0.00597894 = 1.4349 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 93 @ 0.00597895 = 0.556 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.00597894 = 0.2451 BTC [-]
benkay: the best way to keep people who shouldn't be playing with dangerous financial instruments from doing so is to just disallow them from it. this is the MPEx model.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.06 = 0.3 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 121 @ 0.00597715 = 0.7232 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 66 @ 0.00597799 = 0.3945 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.0059 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.1175 = 1.7625 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.0059 = 0.236 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0059 = 0.295 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: benkay oh i c.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00088169 = 31.1237 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: MtGox has barely moved S.MPOE I guess it was much less important than either OpenBSD Charlie Shrem's bong
benkay: heh i got that from you, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 523.68, Best ask: 524.7, Bid-ask spread: 1.02000, Last trade: 523.68, 24 hour volume: 112246.41622198, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 552.06, 24 hour vwap: 480.668707869
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 31617.24142445 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 523.68, vol: 112246.41622198 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 516.001, vol: 71134.23069 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 523.4, vol: 93598.92141544 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 530.01, vol: 431.92813782 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 540.524633, vol: 27601.08600000 | Volume-weighted last average: 486.862785055
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.005898 = 0.118 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so how's the turing point coming along
dexX7: it's frozen for more than 12 or so hours
BingoBoingo: Goxlast is going to be 135 forever it seems. Prolly prudent to quote USD/BTC as a percent of Gox last nao.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's time for teh halting problem
thestringpuller: so at what point does the bot start quoting?
thestringpuller: gox is dead what now? options plz
mircea_popescu: cads prolly this is better than #math
mircea_popescu: and geometric brownian motion is a rather general case of stochastic process. it fits a bunch of natural phenomena.
BingoBoingo: Woe unto the poor bastard who sold those Puts to the bot.
ThickAsThieves: <BingoBoingo> http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/majority-media/chairman-carpers-statement-on-insolvency-of-major-bitcoin-exchange <<< now i just want gox to come back and say ha! we're solvent idjits
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6617 @ 0.00088108 = 5.8301 BTC [-]
cads: I guess I should look into empirical studies to see how applicable it should be considered for options
mircea_popescu: "we're solute"
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Nah, I just want some IT drone to throw him some Trilema showing that Bitcoin regulated Gox out of existence using only death by exile as a regulatory tool
mircea_popescu: cads you can make your own empirical study. pick a stock.
cads: yeah I should
mircea_popescu: " Today, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Tom Carper (D-Del.) release the following statement"
mircea_popescu: i guess no further need for grammar
mircea_popescu: for your protection, obama govt abolishes the s on verbs.
mircea_popescu: make english more accessible to poor black kids.
cads: I believe that's, "release dat following statement"*
BingoBoingo: cads: It is da rather than dat
Mats_cd03: race hatin mafaka
mircea_popescu: followin but yeah.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00588 = 0.441 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: well the gov is in a perpetual state of release
mircea_popescu: anyway teh cheek on this asshat.
ThickAsThieves: wording intentional
KRS-One: think poor black kids care to use English properly? Hell no honky.
mircea_popescu: delusions of grandeur, "steering" my foot.
KRS-One: .bait
ThickAsThieves: also missing hyphen on ill-equipped
ThickAsThieves: the art of the hyphen is so lost
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.1175 = 0.3525 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's compare and contrast for the permanent record :
mircea_popescu: “My staff is working closely with relevant federal agencies to determine what lessons can be learned from this failure to help ensure this does not happen here in the United States.
mircea_popescu: “As any industry matures it will face growing pains and there will be individuals who believe they can use the fog of uncertainty to cover up their follies. When it comes to policy, it is the responsibility of the federal government to steer the boat, not row the boat. Our Committee will continue to work closely with relevant U.S. government entities to steer the boat away from nefarious actors - and it’s up to l
mircea_popescu: egitimate, law abiding industry partners to row the boat into law abiding waters.”
ozbot: Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: Government sponsored enterprises enter the business, in due course bad behavior is made mandatory, and the evil financial network is bigger than the honest financial network, with the result that even though everyone knows what is happening, people continue to use the paper issued by the evil financial network, because of network effects - the big, main issuers, are the issuers you use if you want to do business.
mircea_popescu: Then knowledgeable people complain that the evil financial network is heading for disaster, that the government sponsored enterprises are about to cause a “collapse of the total financial system”, as Wallison and Alan Greenspan complained in 2005, the government debates shrinking the evil government sponsored enterprises, as with “S. 190 [109th]: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005″ but the
mircea_popescu: y find easy money too seductive, and S. 190 goes down in flames before a horde of political activists chanting that easy money is sound, and opposing it is racist, nazi, ignorant, and generally hateful, the recent S. 190 debate on limiting portfolios (bond issue supporting dud mortgages) by government sponsored enterprises being a perfect reprise of the debates on limiting the issue of new assignats in the 1790s.
mircea_popescu: The big and easy government attacks on money target a single central money issuer, as with the first of the modern political attacks, the French Assignat of 1792, but in the late nineteenth century political attacks on financial networks began, as for example the Federal reserve act of 1913, the goal always being to wind up the network into a single too big to fail entity, and they have been getting progressively bigge
mircea_popescu: r, more serious, and more disastrous, as with the most recent one. Each attack is hugely successful, and after the cataclysm that the attack causes the attackers are hailed as saviors of the poor, the oppressed, and the nation generally, and the blame for the the bad consequences is dumped elsewhere, usually on Jews, greedy bankers, speculators, etc, because such attacks ar
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 84 @ 0.00589798 = 0.4954 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: The Federal Reserve act was the best thing that ever happened to the US
mircea_popescu: because such attacks are difficult for ordinary people understand. I have trouble understanding your proposal - ordinary users will be easily bamboozled by a government sponsored security update. Further, when the crisis hits, to disagree with the line, to doubt that the regulators are right, and the problem is the evil speculators, becomes political suicide, as it did in America in 2007, sometimes physical suicide, a
mircea_popescu: s in Weimar Germany.
mircea_popescu: aaanyway.
mircea_popescu: we're not nor will we ever be socialists.
mircea_popescu: the us government, it's agents and assigns are cordially invited to go suck an onion.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you already predicted the collapse of MtGox for those very reasons
thestringpuller: you even WARNED people not to leave money in MtGox
thestringpuller: what some 10 months ago?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yes but in typical commie style, the evil empire is trying to turn things around
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 737 @ 0.00571275 = 4.2103 BTC [-] {11}
mircea_popescu: black is white, up is down, obama vorvarts etc.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There are also offers for them to try gingering for the buttcoins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingering
thestringpuller: but then you disregard both teh media and what the government states
thestringpuller: the media gets it wrong
thestringpuller: the government gets it wrong
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol
thestringpuller: so just listen to the people who know what they are talkinga bout, don't play into the huxley mentality
ozbot: Erik Voorhees on Bloomberg TV : Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seems like a better alternatives to the peppers, Prolly spec any actual offers though to use horse radish rather than ginger for the thick root
mircea_popescu: ;;google figging
gribble: Figging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figging>; Urban Dictionary: figging: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=figging>; tacit: BDSM: Theory and Practice of Figging: <http://tacit.livejournal.com/225189.html>
ThickAsThieves: i have a ginger addiction
BingoBoingo: Oh, already a thing. I guess that means there are standards to compare to then.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 815 @ 0.00583951 = 4.7592 BTC [+] {10}
ThickAsThieves: hmm i'm not addicted enough to put it in my butt tho
thestringpuller: and this is where I get back to work
cads: mircea_popescu: that's kinda awesome
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 80 @ 0.00587499 = 0.47 BTC [+] {2}
cads: I was just reading an article on tha
mircea_popescu: cads which that ?
cads: ginger play :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 62 @ 0.00589997 = 0.3658 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Horseradish seems perfect for this purpose, a bit of a step up on the intensity http://www.photo-dictionary.com/phrase/2281/horseradish.html
mircea_popescu: #ginger ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 419 @ 0.00589998 = 2.4721 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00088212 = 19.6713 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00589999 = 0.59 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 133 @ 0.00465 = 0.6185 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 609 @ 0.00589998 = 3.5931 BTC [-] {7}
BingoBoingo: Eh, We'll make offers to the next person who wants a Macbook Pro
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 434 @ 0.00589998 = 2.5606 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: In other news 'Murica scraps extremely effective tool in favor of Vaporware http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/dod-aims-to-scrap-a-10-to-keep-f-35-alive-in-new-budget/
benkay: robot ships!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 190 @ 0.00589998 = 1.121 BTC [-]
benkay: mircea_popescu: are you familiar with SkySails?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm off. looking forward to reading more derpage from clueless uninvolved people with delusions of self-importance tomorrow.
ozbot: SkySails GmbH - SkySails Marine
BingoBoingo: benkay: Talk about old tech
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.00589999 = 0.413 BTC [+] {3}
benkay: everything old is new again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1175 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: boat kites are tech?
benkay: everything is technology.
benkay: you'd be well served by actually reading how they work, ThickAsThieves
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.11453543 = 0.2291 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: and today i learned what figging is
BingoBoingo: I'd kind of like to see a modernized on of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brig
BingoBoingo: Blue and Green water capable
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.06 = 0.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.11463545 = 0.6878 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I still think though turning a nuclear aircraft carrier into a portable farm could be a fun venture though.
ThickAsThieves: <benkay> you'd be well served by actually reading how they work, ThickAsThieves /// i dunno about well-served, but okay
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.16230094 = 0.9738 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 462 @ 0.00050097 = 0.2314 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.1175 = 0.235 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 482 @ 0.00088508 = 0.4266 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 296 @ 0.00589999 = 1.7464 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00088378 = 17.7198 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.06124996 = 0.49 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.1175 = 0.47 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00589999 = 0.59 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 56 @ 0.00589999 = 0.3304 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 25 @ 0.00588009 = 0.147 BTC [-]
ozbot: tour-de-babel - steveyegge2
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 600 @ 0.00589419 = 3.5365 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Tin cans filled with $10 million in gold coins found buried in California |
kakobrekla: for nubbins
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.131 = 0.262 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.00464745 = 0.395 BTC [-]
davout: kakobrekla: oh someone found the stamp engine
davout: $10m in tin cans
davout: tin cans
davout: cans
assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1659499/plain/)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 139 @ 0.00587 = 0.8159 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.00587 = 0.1761 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00088059 = 29.1035 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00587 = 0.1996 BTC [-]
BitcoinPropagand: Hey we're raising money to keep making more awesome bitcoin posters, you can check the campaign here: https://www.startjoin.com/bitcoinposters and the designs here: http://bitcoinpropaganda.blogspot.com
BitcoinPropagand: The posters are 18x24"(46x61cm) printed in the best quality and shipped to anywhere in the world for $30
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00088414 = 13.7042 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00587 = 0.2935 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 49 @ 0.0057003 = 0.2793 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29800 @ 0.00087932 = 26.2037 BTC [-] {2}
TomServo: I was surprised to learn the gold coin find already had a website (saddleridgehoard.com)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.00570029 = 0.228 BTC [-] {2}
TomServo: Also surprised to learn it was reg'd 17-Feb-2014. I still call shenanigans!
ThickAsThieves: mod deleted my post of "This more closely resembles a bowel movement."
ThickAsThieves: in response to "I believe this is evidence of the social movement we're witnessing." (re: destroying iphones)
ThickAsThieves: no poop talk round hea!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00087902 = 10.5482 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1174 BTC [-]
MisterE: BingoBoingo: LOL, 4th post is from an ambulance chasing lawyer
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Post I linked though was me telling them to get a time machine, because Gox's death should be the 11th least surprising thing in Bitcoin this year.
MisterE: never get shit from the Japs
MisterE: guess that was what the Gox premium was worth
BingoBoingo: Well, the gox premium was worth an inability to withdraw fiat, the gox discount is worth an inability to withdraw BTC. The discount won in the end because People want BTC moar. Free markets at work.
lnovy: Mark might have created bitcoin futures, this will be hilarious :)
dub: the only thing japanese about gox is tux' dirty panty collection
BingoBoingo: I don't think Mark did much other than Highlight why PHP should never touch commands passed to a bitcoin deamon (hopefully not bitcoind for too much longer)
BingoBoingo: Jed though invented a lot of things, that Mark gets too much credit for.
lnovy: I don't think bitcoin public cares about that much details :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1175 BTC [+]
lnovy: but think about it... yes you can have your coins... for sure... in 2384 ;)
lnovy: <MagicalTux> Well, technically speaking it's not "lost" just yet, just
lnovy: temporarily unavailable"
lnovy: what _else_ could it be? :)
BingoBoingo: lnovy: The Bitcoin public is rather small.
lnovy: it was :(
BingoBoingo: lnovy: No. If anything the actual Bitcoin public has shrank considerably since the fall of 2012
lnovy: these are still new ages...
BingoBoingo: Of course.
BingoBoingo: It is still new ages, but this week a lot of people who though they were "in" Bitcoin realized they never stopped being n00bs in spite of having been around for the great silk road bubble of 2011
lnovy: yeah... the only way to learn that the stove is hot is to get burned...
lnovy: some people just don't learn :/
d34th: i learned by putting my hand near and feeling the heat
lnovy: you don't remember :) heat is heat, pain is pain
d34th: getting burnt by a stove isnt true pain
d34th: true pain is frying bacon naked
d34th: you endure for a sweet reward at the end
BingoBoingo: Catch is Gox had no bacon
lnovy: Quote #957400 is pending moderation.
BingoBoingo: The more you read on GOx the further you push pack the date where red flags became evident in retrospect.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.0008816 = 6.612 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.49677349 = 17.3871 BTC [+] {13}
B007: I'm glad I don't have anything in GOX
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the people who by all rights ought to be taking some heat, but aren't, are the enablers.
asciilifeform: the u.s. media of whom gox is arguably a creature.
asciilifeform: and now that it's dead, they will be sure to send the cattle directly to whatever replaces it in scamspace.
asciilifeform: (under no circumstances are cattle permitted to wander unguided, mp had a piece on this if i recall)
BingoBoingo: Well, If the US media was really that effective at promoting trends from Japan I would expect more emergency room visits from squid and octopus related injuries of the genitalia. Alas...
asciilifeform: afaik, gox is japanese solely in the geographic sense.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even very guided cattle can walk through gaping holes http://deadspin.com/the-cardinals-are-very-embarrassed-by-carlos-martinezs-1530572369
ozbot: The Cardinals Are Very Embarrassed By Carlos Martinez's Wall Of Porn
asciilifeform: maybe i'm thick - not sure how this connects
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 139 @ 0.00571849 = 0.7949 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00088473 = 18.4909 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: A team looking to invest tens of millions over a decade on a 22 year old who can throw a ball hard can't keep one of their bulls from filling their twitter wall full of white girl vaginas
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 172 @ 0.00570056 = 0.9805 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.10901011 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Even very guided cattle will stray
BingoBoingo: At least the children who follow him on twitter now know which strike zone he finds most important though.
BingoBoingo: MP might probably call that a win.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
ozbot: A Reminder – The Most Important Word in Bitcoin, Again because Gox | Bingo Blog
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.11461999 = 0.5731 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0600101 = 0.18 BTC [-]
mike_c: wot fail
ozbot: Rating Details for User 'MagicalTux'
mike_c: "if we don't trust him, who can we trust? ;)" hehehe
Apocalyptic: there is a strong trust link between mircea and MagicalTux btw
Apocalyptic: as he trusts nanotube with a 10 who trusts MT with a 7
mike_c: yeah, he only has 3 negative ratings.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16230094 = 1.623 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;rate MagicalTux -10 Ran an exchange that failed
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user MagicalTux has been recorded.
BingoBoingo: NEG RATING PARTY
BingoBoingo: Who has slashdot accounts and wants to spread some love? http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3366357
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1 @ 0.1090011 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: I don't see much Gox neg rating yet...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.102102 = 0.2042 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;rate herbijudlestoids 1 n00b with graphs
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user herbijudlestoids has been recorded.
BingoBoingo: ;;rate chatquack 1 didn't make a bad irc bot
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user chatquack has been recorded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.061 = 0.122 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.10205 = 0.2041 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;rate moiety 1 attempted the impossible, don't think other people's money was lost
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user moiety has been recorded.
mike_c: ;;rate MagicalTux -2 ran a fractional reserve exchange
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -2 for user MagicalTux has been recorded.
Jere_Jones: BingoBoingo done
BingoBoingo: Jere_Jones mike_c Sweet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.0055 = 0.275 BTC
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Remember when you asked me for a sports book recommendation?
mike_c: yes
BingoBoingo: I took most of my balance out of there. They are cutting down on their offerings a lot. No serious concerns yet, but be careful.
mike_c: hm. i will pass it along. a friend of mine was looking. thanks.
chatquack: Hey Thanks BingoBoingo. I'm glad ya like him!
BingoBoingo: chatquack: You are very welcome. Remember to scroll up and vote on the slashdot submission
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00087881 = 23.7279 BTC [-] {2}
punkman1: "I barely have enough time to eat dinner, shower, and get online to research new cryptocoins to invest in. I have no social life, but this is of my choosing because I can't be bothered to socialize and waste money on a few beers and hang out with friends/women"
BingoBoingo: Nothing of value has recently happened on a Friday or Saturday other than Altcoin's unveiling
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 70 @ 0.005701 = 0.3991 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 503 @ 0.00088989 = 0.4476 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.005701 = 0.2508 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 20 @ 0.00579991 = 0.116 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Just-Dice From the Beginning - Btc Alpha
mike_c: BingoBoingo: check out that september. what a swing!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: On big whale can do it.
mike_c: and did.
Apocalyptic: "Chris Moore" oh did dooglus go public with his identity at some point ? I missed that
mike_c: um, hopefully
ozbot: Chris Moore (dooglus) on Twitter
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: He did quite some time ago
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 104 @ 0.00578999 = 0.6022 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 310 @ 0.00588245 = 1.8236 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00589 = 0.212 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;rate TradeFortress -5 scammed, dunno if defaulted or robbed, but lost other people's coin
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -5 for user TradeFortress has been recorded.
KRS-One: heh
BingoBoingo: ;;rate KRS-One 1 knows what he likes
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
KRS-One: hey im in there
KRS-One: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'KRS-One', with hostmask 'KRS-One!~KRS1@c-50-143-86-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net', is not identified.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 281 @ 0.00589 = 1.6551 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: ;;ident KRS1
gribble: Nick 'KRS1', with hostmask 'KRS1!~KRS1@c-50-143-86-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net', is not identified.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00589997 = 0.5074 BTC [+] {2}
Bugpowder: zerohedge ‏@zerohedge MT. GOX SUBPOENAED BY U.S. PROSECUTOR
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.00589997 = 0.1121 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 71 @ 0.00572005 = 0.4061 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 760 @ 0.00589998 = 4.484 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14700 @ 0.00088292 = 12.9789 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: Bugpowder, nothing on their website
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0059 = 0.295 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 22 @ 0.0059 = 0.1298 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00088238 = 13.8534 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 233 @ 0.0059 = 1.3747 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 30 @ 0.0059 = 0.177 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00088221 = 8.9985 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.0059 = 0.2655 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.10888889 = 0.98 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.16230094 = 0.3246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12851 @ 0.00088534 = 11.3775 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.499 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 41 @ 0.0059 = 0.2419 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 72 @ 0.0059 = 0.4248 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.49945 = 0.9989 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 26 @ 0.00585 = 0.1521 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00534787 = 0.2674 BTC [+] {4}
kakobrekla: so jurov bait or not?
deadweasel: sharkbait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.16230094 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 73 @ 0.00535 = 0.3906 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0605 = 0.121 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00584 = 2.336 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: !t h neobee
assbot: [HAVELOCK:NEOBEE] 1D: 0.00415000 / 0.00555781 / 0.00598000 (64684 shares, 359.50132705 BTC), 7D: 0.00278000 / 0.00428233 / 0.00598000 (330230 shares, 1414.15426935 BTC), 30D: 0.00257150 / 0.00391709 / 0.00598000 (453584 shares, 1776.72765874 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.0008861 = 32.6971 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: +1 insightful, bingo
Jere_Jones: getting eulora to build on windows is a serious pita
nubbins`: getting it to build on osx is a serious pita
nubbins`: almost there tho :D
BingoBoingo: Thanks nubbins` almost there indeed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 170 @ 0.00585 = 0.9945 BTC [+]
nubbins`: Jere_Jones: had to get my hands a bit dirty and start modifying code
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.00585 = 0.1989 BTC [+]
Jere_Jones: I'm still fighting with the configure. I have to add a line to touch a file every couple hundred lines because windows is dumb about empty sets.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate MagicalTux -10 Caused my father-in-law to call my wife worried about whether I got out of bitcoin before it died.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user MagicalTux has been recorded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 166 @ 0.00584 = 0.9694 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;rate MagicalTux -10 wanted everybody's personal information, offered none of its
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user MagicalTux has changed from -10 to -10.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 29 @ 0.00584241 = 0.1694 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.0008813 = 19.3445 BTC [-] {3}
joecool: ;;gettrust MagicalTux
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 23 @ 0.00585 = 0.1346 BTC [+]
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user joecool to user MagicalTux: Level 1: -3, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=joecool&dest=MagicalTux | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MagicalTux | Rated since: Mon Dec 20 13:21:21 2010
BingoBoingo: Oh a wired writer is getting into a conversation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 19 @ 0.00585 = 0.1112 BTC [+]
joecool: ;;rated mtgox
gribble: You rated user mtgox on Sun Nov 24 23:57:46 2013, with a rating of -10, and supplied these additional notes: sucks.
nubbins`: mention about that guy sudelis or whatever redacting the pdf himself
ozbot: Mt. Gox Receives Subpoena From Federal Prosecutor: Source - WSJ.com
nubbins`: selkis
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay vaguely.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: i saw his name in an associated press article today
joecool: ;;rate MagicalTux -9 the single largest contributing factor to negative press on bitcoin and the lack trust of the community, not -10 because kalyhost hasn't burned me yet and I have a bet riding on you going to jail
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user MagicalTux has changed from -3 to -9.
joecool: o wrong chan
joecool: whatever
mircea_popescu: joecool lol amusingly i think i wrote last year about how mtgox is the one single worst thing in btc.
BingoBoingo: joecool: Well, gribble's here it works
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That article is part of the bit I am trying to get on slashdot nao
punkman1: wait, someone uses karpeles' hosting?
mircea_popescu: punkman1 that's nothing, sometimes i see people in btc on linode.
joecool: punkman1: registrar
Apocalyptic: punkman1, heh
[\]: hi
joecool: it's funny how small and quiet the support channel is for it too
[\]: asl
joecool: MT is still sitting in there
ozbot: 3.130 billion | Next Diff in 435 blocks | Estimated Change: 20.0629% in 2d 9h 53m 33s
[\]: its a irc bouncer
[\]: I wouldn't put too much stock in it
nubbins`: 18/f/single
kakobrekla: not even laughing stock?
mircea_popescu: [\\\] you are 12 and what are you doing here
nubbins`: i mean usa
[\]: mircea_popescu: .boobies
[\]: .bait
joecool: [\\\]: does he have it issuing commands regularly, i have not seen idle time of over 2 hours ever
joecool: in the past day or so
BingoBoingo: puppies.txt
Apocalyptic: ""At this stage the relevant financial authorities, the police, the Finance Ministry and others are gathering information on the case,""
mircea_popescu: oic, at THIS stage.
[\]: Apocalyptic: link
Apocalyptic: that escalated quite quickly
dexX7: joecool: it's silent, because the channel is muted
ozbot: Japan authorities looking into closure of Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange
mircea_popescu: god forbid they fucking read trilema gathered shit at THAT stage.
joecool: dexX7: not the channel i'm talking about :)
joecool: #mtgox has 625, this channel has 12
joecool: totally different scale
BingoBoingo: Eh, Imma trying to get that April 2013 Trilema on Slashdot, but... weeknights are hard
ozbot: Japan authorities looking into closure of Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange
ozbot: Japan authorities looking into closure of Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange
[\]: great
[\]: as if we didn't have that link already
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.00087924 = 14.6833 BTC [-] {2}
[\]: derp
BingoBoingo: -assets will get all of the links
kakobrekla: trice
jcpham: that wickedfire thread is a good read
[\]: good thing gox has all of pirate's coins.
jcpham: +___+++!
[\]: I know, because copumpkin is still screwing his sister.
copumpkin: damn right
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00087998 = 20.5915 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.10801828 = 1.1882 BTC [-] {4}
jcpham: he would've moved to stamp ages ago
[\]: incest is awesome
copumpkin: I only screw sisters
[\]: your own sisters.
jcpham: i never had a sister
[\]: jcpham: because copumpkin screwed her.
BingoBoingo: I though they had Pirate's dollars, because I remember his runaway fail halving value from two digit USD to one digit USD
[\]: then she became your mother, not your sister.
Mats_cd03: would you be my father
[\]: nah, she swallows now
Mats_cd03: do you swallow
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "in triplicate"
mircea_popescu: [\\\] what mtgox does have is all that's left of bitcoinica coins
jcpham: copumpkin you FUCKED MY SISTER?!?!
mircea_popescu: which will be so lulzy if it isn't already
KRS1: .bait
jcpham: what abstard move
copumpkin: yeah
jcpham: mircea_popescu i'm thinking mtgox is scam
jcpham: i dunno though
mircea_popescu: best buy some debt
BingoBoingo: MtGox Scamming since 2010
KRS1: haha
jcpham: lolololol
[\]: guess its time to set up a new asset on glbse to sell gox debt
[\]: where's goat when you need him? he's good at that.
KRS1: lol \\\
jcpham: havelock requires credentials
jcpham: so it's out
BingoBoingo: When does MPEX list SYN.GOX
[\]: jcpham: keepass will make as many credentials that you need
nubbins`: what are credentials, anyway!
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD last: 135.0, vol: 0.00000000 | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 562.99, vol: 104844.03125090 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 552.861, vol: 64325.15053 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 564.25, vol: 82686.21481199 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 562.8768, vol: 24690.89200000 | Volume-weighted last average: 561.000604912
jcpham: [\\\] did you check out teespring
jcpham: for the shirt
[\]: nope
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0059 = 1.475 BTC [+]
[\]: I figured someone beat me to market
jcpham: same thing as the thing you were doing
jcpham: but you can crowd fund the hirt
jcpham: *shirt
[\]: do they accept bitcoins and allow me to make a large markup?
jcpham: so like it's paul graham YC thing
jcpham: sell it back ot them
nubbins`: i accept bitcoins and allow you to make a large markup
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo moar like ACK.GOX
jcpham: or nubbins`
[\]: how about got.gox
jcpham: no infringing logos
jcpham: how much shirt in btc
jcpham: *per shirt
BingoBoingo: Maybe someone can pull a Deprived SYN.GOX vs. ACK.GOX
nubbins`: i like em
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 31 @ 0.0059 = 0.1829 BTC [+]
[\]: aww
jcpham: yeah let's do it
nubbins`: jcpham, depends on quantity
[\]: now the ideas been hatched
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: How much do you charge for bespoke t-shirts again?
jcpham: i'll fund it
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: depends on quantity ;D
jcpham: or some of it
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Singles + unique art. Baseball season is coming up. I need a goal to gamble that purse up to.
nubbins`: a single shirt with a one-color print is around $75
nubbins`: with artwork provided by you
nubbins`: lots of setup time ;)
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: So If I also commisioned you to art it up on top of that how much could a t-shirt cost?
jcpham: we need to get like a simple site online asap for it
jcpham: i'm setting up a shopify site now for it
KRS1: <MagicaITux> guys dont worry gox is coming back buy more btc
jcpham: that takes to long
nubbins`: design is $45/h, so it depends what you're looking for
jcpham: single color. single color logo
jcpham: i can zinodaur to do something
jcpham: let's see if he's online
jcpham: what time is it in romania
[\]: dude's a glasshole
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: A Bulldozer, fuelled by whiskey and regret. I'm not ordering until baseball makes the money, but I need a goal to bet to.
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: call it an even $150 and i'll print you extras out of the change
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Ans what if we skip the T-shirt and print on fancy bedsheets for a toga instead?
BingoBoingo: I wonder if actual Tyrian purple is still a thing
nubbins`: i'd have to price the sheets, what sort of thread count does sir require?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.0008788 = 4.394 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: SInce we are pricing for the impending baseball seasons lets assume no threads, all Chamois
nubbins`: nice, good choice
BingoBoingo: Purple chamois, orange silkscreen
nubbins`: that'll be stylish
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 175 @ 0.0059 = 1.0325 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.10800014 = 0.432 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: I'd go to all of the Toga partys in the Midwest and get all of the well entitted 19 year olds
KRS1: Mmm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 65 @ 0.0059 = 0.3835 BTC [+]
KRS1: .bait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.10800027 = 1.728 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: KRS1: Thinking a bit less european and quite a bit trashier
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00088478 = 11.9003 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 344 @ 0.00586511 = 2.0176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 350 @ 0.0058487 = 2.047 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 147 @ 0.0055 = 0.8085 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 60 @ 0.00583695 = 0.3502 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Twitter / DadBoner: Kroger manager said, "Did you ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 56 @ 0.00577674 = 0.3235 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: on activists, 'equality', etc. with english subs. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTfw5jDK94Y&app=desktop
asciilifeform: (paging mircea_popescu!)
mircea_popescu: hehe writing an article right now, knee deep in the clouds and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: but inasec.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2014#531372 kako srsly, still with the motherfucking quotes ?!
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
cads: hey mircea_popescu, is there a simple terms explanation for what it means for a brownian process B(t) to be adapted relative to a filtration F_t? I understand that it means that for each t B(t) is F_t measurable, that is, B(t) is always fully measurable against the data F_t carries. In particular we do not require events available only to some future refinement F_s of the filtration.
cads: I'm wondering where does the filtration come from to begin with.
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