Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-01-24 | 2014-01-26 → ↓
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 109 @ 0.00093 = 0.1014 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: evidence of why you want your own money
mircea_popescu: "it's mine"
mircea_popescu: The bank said it did not have to tell him. "As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account, we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change," HSBC wrote.
mircea_popescu: derp. how much money of your own money you can have is not part of the terms.
mircea_popescu: dude i should run mpex like that, srlsy.
TATtothemoon: as a service
TATtothemoon: sorry you can't withdraw 100btc for that Tesla
mircea_popescu: course "large" cash withdrawals actually means pocket change
mircea_popescu: a large cash withdrawal is more than what'd be needed to pay for the most expensive dwelling.
mircea_popescu: that'd be about 5 to 10 million or so.
mircea_popescu: 5k is like... grocery money.
TATtothemoon: pay your mom back money
TATtothemoon: Hancock has been shady for so long so blatantly why does anyone let them have any money at all?
mircea_popescu: anyway, some war gotta break out soon somehwere.
mircea_popescu: it's just about there
TATtothemoon: hsbc not Hancock...
TATtothemoon: "Despite the problems of becoming a social outcast, which I described at last year's World Economic Forum, I have been lucky enough to get the chance to attend the conference again."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00100422 = 7.381 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 6000 @ 0.00048 = 2.88 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00100422 = 6.0253 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 586 @ 0.000931 = 0.5456 BTC [+]
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 1901 blocks | Estimated Change: 9.1064% in 11d 23h 57m 36s
ozbot: Wages For Facebook
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.50899998 = 6.108 BTC [+] {3}
Namworld: Can someone take the website down please?
Namworld: the -> that
Namworld: My eyes...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 4166 @ 0.00048 = 1.9997 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02630005 = 0.3419 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 114 @ 0.00090133 = 0.1028 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4282 @ 0.00100297 = 4.2947 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 30 @ 0.00464999 = 0.1395 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27150 @ 0.00100337 = 27.2415 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.003087 = 0.3087 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 191 @ 0.00308799 = 0.5898 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 703 @ 0.00046879 = 0.3296 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 254 @ 0.00308854 = 0.7845 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.00308977 = 0.3986 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 198 @ 0.0030929 = 0.6124 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8685 @ 0.00100448 = 8.7239 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.49999999 = 4.5 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19771 @ 0.00100369 = 19.844 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00100448 = 2.7121 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25942 @ 0.00100499 = 26.0715 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9958 @ 0.00100702 = 10.0279 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 902 @ 0.00301277 = 2.7175 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.003 = 0.6 BTC [-]
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 1864 blocks | Estimated Change: 8.6180% in 11d 19h 49m 52s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.00311215 = 9.3365 BTC [+] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00313913 = 0.6278 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21450 @ 0.00100665 = 21.5926 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17771 @ 0.00100609 = 17.8792 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !t m x.eur
assbot: [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.0016745 / 0.00167451 / 0.00169831 (1201 shares, 2.01 BTC), 7D: 0.00166612 / 0.0016776 / 0.00175 (2339 shares, 3.92 BTC), 30D: 0.0016245 / 0.00185475 / 0.00333333 (16189 shares, 30.03 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3190 @ 0.00313914 = 10.0139 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00413533 = 0.4135 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.45200001 = 0.904 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02849998 = 0.171 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02869995 = 0.3444 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02897999 = 0.3767 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 122 @ 0.00454794 = 0.5548 BTC [+] {4}
ozbot: Problem with BOURSE forced buyback on Cryptostocks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00446415 = 0.4464 BTC [-] {9}
mircea_popescu: "The cofounder (forensick) left the company and told me he has not seen any bitcoins from the IPO and moreover was left with some outstanding debt by Markus Weiler (dotcoin)."
mircea_popescu: no srsly, you people keep doing this shit.
mircea_popescu: stop doing it. it is stupid.
mircea_popescu: everyone is like insane, feels this irresistible urge to shill for the first scammer that comes by with honeyed lips.
mircea_popescu: it's like virgin highschooler kids getting married at 17 to support some random ho.
mircea_popescu: jurov there you go.
jurov: you mean i'm shilling for forensick?
mircea_popescu: i mean, take this guy. he becomes a cofounder right ?
mircea_popescu: well... cause someone was "being professional". herp.
jurov: yes, he appeared toward me as one
mircea_popescu: and then... his name is used there, right ?
mircea_popescu: and then... it all blows up, and it turns pout he was in fact no cofounder.
mircea_popescu: he was just... an idiot.
KRS1: .bait
jurov: yes, something like that.
mircea_popescu: with nothing better to do with his time, with no idea what a name is and how it works, with nothing at all.
mircea_popescu: i could name names of people doing exactly the same, with fake miners, with bs of all sorts. i won't.
KRS1: How elegant, artful..the fuck? Just give me some fucking porn, ozbot.
mircea_popescu: point remains, this is being done too fucking often.
mircea_popescu: stop thinking that words matter. someone calling you a cofounder and you're all tickled pink ?
mircea_popescu: stop enabling fraud.
KRS1: Some want to feel important, even if they are making the same buck.
mircea_popescu: this happens to be the definition of idiocy.
mircea_popescu: you are better off with two friends than with two hundred "friends" who mostly come by to steal things from your house and take bank loans with copies of your id they obtained while you weren't looking.
jurov: well, what would you do? ask for their contract comes to mind
jurov: (back in september)
mircea_popescu: jurov suppose one day you're walking down the street and some guy offers you a joint. do you take it or do you figure "hey, a fuckwit i never saw before is trying to get me drugged up" ?
mircea_popescu: i mean... this is really 9 yo stuff. do not go to the strip club with perfect strangers.
KRS1: Who owns this channel anyway? Can I be Potentate, Ombudsman, #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: KRS1 no, you can not.
KRS1: Asst. Ombudsman?
KRS1: Co-Assistant.
jurov: honestly, it depends on my frame of mind. i can be incredibly stupid in exactly the wrong moment
mircea_popescu: so that's what i do. i don't deal with people i don't know. i test. i build histories. i check histories.
mircea_popescu: i review references.
mircea_popescu: what, some guy that has no wot, no presence, that i don't know suddenly has an idea ? suddenly can be a ceo ?
mircea_popescu: no, he cant.
mircea_popescu: look at neobee for an instructive example.
mircea_popescu: we're not equal, even if we can type the same strings in a box they still aren't the same strings. depends whose name signs on them. we're not equal, even if two people have "the same idea", in one head it's an idea, in another head it's nothing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.00444 = 0.1909 BTC [-]
nubbins`: this joint, is it already lit?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 375 @ 0.00440001 = 1.65 BTC [-] {5}
jurov: it's nonstop, if a bit silent sometime
nubbins`: haha.
jurov: heh that
jurov: mircea_popescu: you tell someone to build the history for you, *then* you just come and build, check, review, whatever
jurov: i don't know even where to look for someone who could reliably do such service for me
mircea_popescu: jurov this is true. you can practically either piggyback on me, piggyback on someone else, or else do it yourself.
mircea_popescu: when i bitch and whine that we need more ppl doing blogging well this is part of it. what are you to do ?
nubbins`: lrn2blog!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00100543 = 9.9538 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: man, this hsbc stuff is nuts
nubbins`: Mr Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have £5,000?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have £4,000?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for £3,000 and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "
jurov: blogging... i tried to write something and it felt too stupid immediately the next day
mircea_popescu: course if mr cotton had said "either you fill this bag with money or else i come with my lawyer and you'll have to fill HIS bag on top of mine, and on your own account"
mircea_popescu: that'd have resolved it.
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't mean you personally, at any point in this conversation, neither above (i was discussing the cofounder guy, whose responsibility it is whether he knows or not) nor here, it's not like you have to do due dilligence work if you have no experience, training or talent for it.
mircea_popescu: point remains tho, due dilligence does not go away. it is either done one way or the other, but it has to be done.
nubbins`: well the question is why this isn't in court already
nubbins`: "The reason being we have an obligation to protect our customers, and to minimise the opportunity for financial crime. However, following feedback, we are immediately updating guidance to our customer facing staff to reiterate that it is not mandatory for customers to provide documentary evidence for large cash withdrawals, and on its own, failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a
nubbins`: withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."
nubbins`: well
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's not in court because a) the court is a government subsidiary, and the government knows the bank is out of capital.
mircea_popescu: it'd be an awkward way to push its bankruptcy
mircea_popescu: also because b) the law is so written so that the government and its subsidiaries are immune from law,
nubbins`: Mr Cotton has likely been widthdrawing #3k per day since that incident
mircea_popescu: and so no third party could in fact use the court of the government against the bank of the government.
nubbins`: i wonder when they'll tell him he can't anymore
nubbins`: also, i've decided that # is a suitable way to denote GBP on a US keyboard
mircea_popescu: aww poor kid. what's he doing way over there ?
nubbins`: hahaha i have no idea
nubbins`: prolly tried to score a goal ;(
nubbins`: that's an NHL arena, btw
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51899999 BTC [+]
nubbins`: "You are dropped penniless into a village in the middle of England in the year 1500. You maintain all your current knowledge. How would you make your way to the top?"
nubbins`: "Well I'm black. So I guess I wouldn't."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00100759 = 13.6025 BTC [+]
nubbins`: "even Fuctapple can’t fuck up a browser to the degree it breaks the web." <-- quite the opposite, apple played a large part in turning webkit into the beauty it is today
nubbins`: imagine, a browser with built-in dev tools.
nubbins`: on-the-fly DOM editing, javascript console
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> "Well I'm black. So I guess I wouldn't." lmao
mircea_popescu: sure you would. they had black people in 1500 england.
nubbins`: at the top? :0
nubbins`: another commenter wondered whether being strung up on a rope counted as being "at the top"
mircea_popescu: depends on your top, but there were rich merchants
mircea_popescu: heck, disraeli was jewish
mircea_popescu: you obviously couldn't have ended up the queen, as a black male.
mircea_popescu: at any rate, othello was black.
nubbins`: too true
mircea_popescu: also, "dark lady"
mircea_popescu: they had black hos
nubbins`: huh, england had a queen for almost half of the 1500s
nubbins`: who knew!
nubbins`: thing about living in the new world is that there's less history to remember
ozbot: AG points out low uptake in cranberry farm acreage - Business - The Telegram
nubbins`: During the five-year program, the province failed to meet its own guidelines for recordkeeping by not always obtaining business plans before government funding was provided. In some cases, the province also failed to obtain complete financial information from farmers receiving funding.
nubbins`: "Yeah, we don't have our business plan ready yet" "Fuck it, here's your grant!"
mircea_popescu: and then jurov feels bad.
nubbins`: such feels
ozbot: DISCO HITLER BABIES
nubbins`: the Goods subforum is fucked
mircea_popescu: "I made a handful of these a few years ago. I currently can only find 2. I may have given the rest away or sold them, I cant remember. I'm asking $50 each for them shipped in the lower48 (at bitstamp rate)."
mircea_popescu: he can't remember what he did with the rest of the turds and wants me to pay 50 for the extant ones ?
mircea_popescu: fuck you dude, i can't remember what i did with all my 50s
nubbins`: heheh
mircea_popescu: have some chewed chewing gum
nubbins`: even if there were only two ever made, tho...
mircea_popescu: two 50s ?
nubbins`: nah, two hitler dolls
mircea_popescu: yeah, right. that's happening.
mircea_popescu: he has copywright on hitler and monopoly on plastic doll manufacturing.
nubbins`: there are a couple of guys, this Drahog fella and The Butter Zone, that sell the most random shit
nubbins`: some of it's neat tho
ozbot: portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia
mircea_popescu: neroporcamiseria.com ? lol
nubbins`: hm, these are weird
pankkake: actually is racism something… new?
pankkake: was racism big, say, 2000 years ago?
nubbins`: ever wonder why it had to be explicitly said that the good samaritan was good?
mircea_popescu: racism is new in the sense that the observation that people belong to different races is new
mircea_popescu: only became cogent once transportation became possible.
nubbins`: racism was more localized in the past
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it was ethnocentrism, like the way twop small towns hate each other's football team
nubbins`: er yeah
nubbins`: there's a word for that ;(
mircea_popescu: xenophobia ? somewhat.
nubbins`: doesn't quite capture it tho, huh
mircea_popescu: it comes from 5000 years of experience iwth the notion that "people yu don't know will likely rape you", something which comes full circle with the earlier discussion re cryptoscams.
nubbins`: and that itself stems from the animal instinct to fear the unknown
nubbins`: not much different from a pet bird panicking when a new toy is placed in his cage
mircea_popescu: which, again, stems from sense.
pankkake: xenophobia is actually sane; it's people not in the WoT
pankkake: and defiance towards nomads, too
nubbins`: speaking of stems and animals
nubbins`: i suspect that i'll be receiving a copy of the codex seraphinianus for my birthday next week
mircea_popescu: why not the voynich manuscript
nubbins`: apparently amazon is out of stock
nubbins`: this would actually be a fun way to make a zine
nubbins`: gibberish text and fantastical drawings
mircea_popescu: ultimate asshole thing to do : spy on what people get you for your bday
mircea_popescu: give them the same thing only better, on the spot.
nubbins`: hahaha
mircea_popescu: she gets you a pair of socks ? get her superluxury garter belts. exchange gifts
nubbins`: "oh, cool.... thanks... i actually got you a little gift too"
nubbins`: "NBD tho"
mircea_popescu: yup. be all cool and w/e about it
nubbins`: "ah... the regular edition... cool"
nubbins`: rip out a page, roll it up and smoke it
mircea_popescu: just put it on the shelt
nubbins`: "cool..."
nubbins`: "hey, can i see yours?"
nubbins`: that shit is weird on the level of that guy who painted cats
nubbins`: what's his name..
nubbins`: louis wain
nubbins`: okay, i've gotta go try to vacuum some of this mucus out of my face and get to work
nubbins`: more countertops and shelves to be installed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02670003 = 0.3204 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: just-dice.com a Bitcoin Gambling Site is Very Likely Scamming Investors : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg ident
gribble: Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is not identified.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg eauth
gribble: (gpg eauth <nick>) -- Initiate authentication for user <nick>. You must have registered a GPG key with the bot for this to work. You will be given a link to a page which contains a one time password encrypted with your key. Decrypt, and use the 'everify' command with it. Your passphrase will expire in 10 minutes.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg eauth mircea_popescu
gribble: Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:2e6195d15b2c01a8966238fa3e5f01154ac275f02c4121bd6632669e
gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: ;;rate chetty 5 S.MG CTO, long history
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 5 for user chetty has been recorded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 81 @ 0.00475339 = 0.385 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 23 @ 0.00477499 = 0.1098 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;rate diametric 1 mechanical engineer guy, S.NSA subcontractor
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diametric has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate pankkake 1 python dev
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user pankkake has been recorded.
asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform
gribble: Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-71.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7
mircea_popescu: ;;rate bingoboingo 3 blogs, bets, plays chess drunk.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user bingoboingo has changed from 1 to 3.
asciilifeform: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:c6f53e203890629be816dc0b454353bee2dfdbbb22b0a28e1fb2bf0e
gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: ;;rate diametric 1 maestro of mechanicals, S.NSA
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user diametric has been recorded.
asciilifeform: ;;rate mircea_popescu 5 sorcerer of the forces of good, and overall fun guy.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 5 for user mircea_popescu has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: now to get alan schwartz to wot.
asciilifeform: ;;rate bingoboingo 2 retrocomputing archaeology enthusiast, intelligent commentary.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user bingoboingo has been recorded.
pankkake: BingoBoingo has 3 blogs?
mircea_popescu: pankkake this is lisp syntax w/o the (s
pankkake: oh ><
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20802 @ 0.00100951 = 20.9998 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00101343 = 14.5934 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1361 @ 0.00008501 = 0.1157 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: botch-schaft ? the germans have a name for the us intel ops by now ? like gesellschaft except without any gesell and with a boatload o' botch ?!
mircea_popescu: so zee germans are going to start bombing us embassies in germany.
mircea_popescu: truely this terrorism fighting concept has worked wonders, by the time you have european union citizens ready to bomb your shit on general principle.
Mats_cd03: I'm glad I don't live in the eu
mircea_popescu: why the eu specifically ?
Mats_cd03: millions of poor Arabs and Africans waiting for the opportunity to flood over the border and fuck your women
mircea_popescu: what, you think women are made of soap ?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't wear out, yo.
Mats_cd03: They do when there are 3 foreign refugee males for every 1 male national
mircea_popescu: i fail to see it. i didn't perceive much difference among the women i fucked when i lived in my own country or when i lived in countries nominally held by other people. suppose i visit france, wherein all MY women have already been overrun, specifically by the french.
mircea_popescu: magically... there was no shortage of anything, nor any lack of quality.
punkman1: sounds like another version of "they took our jobs"
mircea_popescu: for that matter... xtians and arabs have been swapping womenz for > 900 years by now.
mircea_popescu: doesn't seem to have hurt anything.
asciilifeform: turkish janissary ruling caste comes to mind.
mircea_popescu: aka "the people that jealously guarded their baseless supremacy to the point their ruined the greatest empire in the world"
asciilifeform: yes, them.
Mats_cd03: I'm anticipating the day Muslim extremism _really_ takes off
mircea_popescu: have you ever lived in a muslim country ?
mircea_popescu: i don't mean as a tourist. i mean in the bed of local women.
Mats_cd03: Maybe after a us president lets one off the chain and destroys a nice black rock
mircea_popescu: yeah well. i'll propose to you that perhaps your anticipation is more a figment of your virginal fears than actual experience of the world.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00101286 = 20.8143 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: also helps to distinguish between what one might call 'the real thing,' and the american export knockoff product.
Mats_cd03: I spend a lot of time with active mil guys and policy analysts and I'll suspend my jokes to say that extremism is a serious transnational problem...there are academics like paul graham that believe a rogue nuke will be definitely be used in the next two decades
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 i think a nuke will definitely be used too, whether in x time or not notwithstanding.
mircea_popescu: so what of it ? tokio just got hit by a nuke, and they claim they didn't even notice it.
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: half-life of tritium in the boosters is ~13 yrs. 'use it or lose it.'
mircea_popescu: town doesn't even need evacuation, water is fine, all is well. just ask the jap govt.
Mats_cd03: But yes one day I will find a nice local and make many mixed justice babies
mircea_popescu: i had no idea graham became an academic meanwhile.
mircea_popescu: til, as he'd say.
mircea_popescu: but that aside : global terrorism is the solution, not the problem. the government is the problem, and in characteristic fashion it tries to paint the solution as "the problem".
mircea_popescu: just like... you know, acording to the soviet politburo the reason there was famine were the kulaks.
asciilifeform: read german material re: partizan hunting sometime. reads just like u.s. 'counter-insurgency' doctrine.
mircea_popescu: so it does.
mircea_popescu: so it would have to.
Mats_cd03: Oops...Graham Allison. I had HN on the mins
mircea_popescu: sane minds applied to the same real problem yield similar results. german cars sort-of look like american cars for the reason that... well... road, wind, gravity...
Mats_cd03: ^mind
asciilifeform: except the 'jaegers' were somewhat good at what they did.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? that guy was born in carolina and lived at harvard. the notion that he can be an academic, or intellectually respectable... how ?
mircea_popescu: what'd he know ?
asciilifeform: perhaps softer gravity, smoother roads...
mircea_popescu: something he read ? ty. not interesting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, they only had one guy to answer to. all systems which are build around a spot where the buck stops outperforms systems bereft of such.
asciilifeform: fuhrerprinzip.
asciilifeform: the fact that this is a surprise to anyone is the real surprise.
mircea_popescu: the fact that this is a surprise to anyone is the real surprise to no-one in particular.
KRS1: "Give me Coins" website hacked, 10K Litecoins worth $230k stolen
mircea_popescu: litecoins worth usd, i still have trouble getting my head around it.
mircea_popescu: "The attackers have most likely exploited an SQL Injection vulnerability."
Mats_cd03: How is terrorism the solution
KRS1: Guess they gave em coins
Mats_cd03: Also sqli lol
KRS1: oldest trick in the book
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 renders bureaucracy too expensive and so the whole thing collapses.
KRS1: i think
Apocalyptic: "The professional multicoin pool"
Apocalyptic: so professional indeed
mircea_popescu: as bureaucracy always entrenches itself against any sort of downsizing, this is the only available method.
KRS1: FBI warns retailers to expect future breaches
mircea_popescu: ty fbi, very useful, how much fiat did it cost ?
KRS1: There is a shortage of at least one million cyber security experts.
Mats_cd03: Bureaucracy is expensive at any price point
mircea_popescu: that's okay, there's an oversupply of at least ten million doods patting each other on the back.
KRS1: I'm not sure what side i want to be on anymore
mircea_popescu: KRS1 i thought you were on the nudie side.
KRS1: so tempting they're practically inviting
KRS1: I'm always on the nudie side
KRS1: .bait
KRS1: ;;seen ozbot
gribble: ozbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 57 minutes and 22 seconds ago: <ozbot> just-dice.com a Bitcoin Gambling Site is Very Likely Scamming Investors : Bitcoin
KRS1: woa
mircea_popescu: waitwut ?!
KRS1: ozbot spreading fud?
mircea_popescu: ;;seen dooglus
gribble: dooglus was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 24 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <dooglus> seen mircea_popescu?
kakobrekla: its a tittle from url to reddit
asciilifeform: 'cyber security experts' are being supposedly minted here around the clock, and yet the folks i work for couldn't find one kid who could so much as operate 'ida pro', in ~6 mo. of trying.
mircea_popescu: lol reddit declares shit.
mircea_popescu: the kids and their delusions of grandeur.
mircea_popescu: "Thankfully, Coinbase said it would take six days to get my Bitcoin and so I didn't have it available to make an investment in the bankroll of the just-dice website."
mircea_popescu: this is a valid point.
mircea_popescu: w/e was saying the same thing re bitbet, "bitcoins being locked here prevents the owner from losing it"
mircea_popescu: "The names of the players on the site are unusual (it is like someone got a book of american names without a real understanding of why americans would be unlikely to either have or pick those screenames)"
mircea_popescu: best proof.
mircea_popescu: "The chat room on the site is very active but the conversations there are unusual and non-linear. It has the feeling of looking busy with no real context at times and at others the conversation is very linear."
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha this is great. "hey guise i am new to internet stuff, it's all fake rite ???"
mircea_popescu: a gem. ty p
Apocalyptic: lol mircea
cads: huh, radicalization is cool!
mircea_popescu: cads until someone loses an eye. then it's hysterical.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, what are you up to these days ?
cads: just chilling, studying and working
cads: what's new on your side of the lake?
mircea_popescu: suddenly disappeared means either got a kid, got a habit or else scammed a buncha coins. what is this work and study you speak of.
cads: I study at the university, and work as a machinist
mircea_popescu: well on this side of the lake as you can see, we're preparing to set on fire us embassies, or something. basically everyone's in agreement there shall be a war, still ironing out where exactly.
cads: my study is mostly math
cads: but also some econ and finance
mircea_popescu: anyway you can apply some of that study to bitcoin finance for great justice ?
cads: hehe, it would be neat to develop some pricing models when I learn that math
asciilifeform: do newly-elected german chancellors still have to fly to washington to get secretly sworn into muppethood?
mircea_popescu: afaik that dropped in the 90s
cads: mircea_popescu: I'd imagine there are people that have already adapted models for things like the the bitcoin options trading house
mircea_popescu: cads seriously now : it's a vast field, it's by far the most important thing happening on planet earth for now, the majority of people "involved" are carpenters by trade, if not professional welfare leeches.
mircea_popescu: great time to do some foundational work.
asciilifeform: best thing is, any hypothesis in the field is immediately testable, all you need is a computer.
cads: yeah, earlier on I figured that I could probably do some awesome research in finance just by reflecting on bitcoin and continuing to learn math
mircea_popescu: also publish it somewhere.
mircea_popescu: you don't realise it now, but in a decade being able to point to a verifiable 10 year history will mean you can have any job you want.
mircea_popescu: supposing you for some insane reason actuyally want a job in cacademia.
jurov: people already adapted models? who? where?
benkay: well the mpoe bot for one but i dunno if that counts for people
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share
jurov: i mean, outside of that. and it's still far from profitable (for bondholders)
benkay: it's profitable for the bondholders who insist on a good rate
mircea_popescu: it's complicated
benkay: it's a good fleecing of those who're willing to settle for .45 or whatever it was hovering at before the last hammering
jurov: benkay did you see the stats?
benkay: yeah stats assume you're invested each month
benkay: right? unless i misread that spreadsheet
jurov: so your investor would read from crystal ball "withdraw in march and november"
benkay: no no no
benkay: just don't chase rate around. leave bond deposit requested premium nice and high. forego interest during periods of low interest, capture the high interest periods after the bot gets hammered in a given month.
mircea_popescu: the stats as reported are overall, and moreover they misrepresent data in a sort of implicit leveraging
mircea_popescu: (the sums not used even if available each month are not reported)
jurov: that would work if the bonds did not eat themselves.
jurov: you can ask 30% mpbor, but you never actually get it
jurov: and end up actually worse in total than people who asked 4%
mircea_popescu: how worse ?
jurov: if you ask 4% , you can get 4% every month compounded while btc rate is stable
jurov: if you ask 30% then you get nothing while btc rate si stable
jurov: and when there is loss you cover it alike with all the other bonds
mircea_popescu: well, unless mpoe makes 25% profit on a stable month and there's nobody else there, in which case you walk away with 25%
jurov: *IF* your bond gets used.
Apocalyptic: I still don't get wtf Hearn is doing at the foundation's head position
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic nobody honest wanted the job ?
mircea_popescu: jurov well yes, it's a longshot.
benkay: chasing return on btc is a great way to loose btc
benkay: har arguably the best thing to do with 100 btc is put it on deposit as a bond with MPOE at like 50%
benkay: you won't make any money, but you won't lose a terrible lot either
jurov: 20% (or dunno how much it was) isn't terrible lot?
mircea_popescu: his theory is that when shtf and bonds get eaten up you may lose.
mircea_popescu: however, the capital needs as a volume of btc and the losses as a % are not necessarily correlated too well.
mircea_popescu: at least imo
jurov: actually, because if you ask 50%, then EVERYONE, even people who asked 4% will get it
jurov: thus, loss is practically guaranteed
mircea_popescu: if you get touched. yes.
mircea_popescu: i stil ldon't see how is loss guaranteed ?
benkay: i was halfway joking jurov
jurov: yes, that case
benkay: suggesting that you wouldn't get touched at that rate
mircea_popescu: jurov basically you seem to me to proceed on the theory that "large capital needs" necessarily means "mpoe makes a loss". this seems baseless.
benkay: ^^
jurov: i rather would like to see how you can get touched at that rate and *not* end up with a loss.
jurov: this requires your bond be bigger than sum of all the others
mircea_popescu: jurov let's model things for a second.
mircea_popescu: bonds : 10 btc at 10%, 40 btc at 15%, 10 btc at 50%
mircea_popescu: 1st month : 5 btc profit, 15 btc capital needed.
mircea_popescu: 10 gets 1.5, 40 gets .75, the remainder 2.75 goes to shareholders.
jurov: won't the 40 get 15% too?
mircea_popescu: yes, 15% on 5 btc
jurov: ok. i'm following.
mircea_popescu: 2nd month : 150 btc profit, 55 btc capital needed.
mircea_popescu: 10 gets 5, 40 gets 20, 10 gets 2.5
mircea_popescu: shareholders get 122.5 btc
jurov: moment... did mpoe ever made 3x needed capital?
mircea_popescu: i don't know right off, but are you proposing that two years of mpoe covers the entire universe of possibilities, and nothing new will ever happen in the future ?
jurov: my opinion is that it's extremely unlikely
mircea_popescu: and that's fine.
mircea_popescu: moving on : 3rd month. 30 btc loss, 51 btc capital.
mircea_popescu: 10 loses 5.9, 40 loses 23.5, 10 loses .59
jurov: the 30btc loss already includes 25.5 btc paid as premium?
Apocalyptic: pankkake, you said earlier the payment protocol looks fine to you, did you know Hearn pushes for SSL to be part of it with all the centralized cert authority issues it implies ?
mircea_popescu: jurov no, these are net
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic he said it looks fine ?!
Apocalyptic: yeah, let me dig that up
pankkake: I said it's OK except for the reliance on CAs :)
mircea_popescu: el sueno de la razon...
Apocalyptic: oh, missed the except part then :=
mircea_popescu: how is it ok even without cas.
pankkake: I just see it as a better way to do <a href="bitcoin:whatever">
jurov: so then the total loss attributed to bonds is 55.5 BTC... rather extreme example
Apocalyptic: mircea has a point here
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, the point of modelling is to go through the extremes
mircea_popescu: pankkake what is your definition of "better way" ? like, instead of a woman telling you when she's ready to fuck, she wears a collar sold in a shop which beeps ?
mircea_popescu: is this a better way to fuck, iyo ?
mircea_popescu: "because this way the woman can't lie about when she feels like getting laid"
mircea_popescu: as if this is a problem that actually needs a solution at any point.
pankkake: well women should wear collars, but I disagree on the collar implementation
mircea_popescu: suppose you let them pick ?
mircea_popescu: unless you're an impotent fuckwit with delusions of self-importance who imagines that if he's eaten catered food under enough cheap false ceilings he now has something to say on this - or any other - topic.
mircea_popescu: and that periphrase does not only name mike hearn, even if it fits him so well. in fact, there's a legion of this sort of scum floating about.
Apocalyptic: part of the beauty of the bitcoin protocol resides in how simple it is to just have an address and like mircea said this is a solution to a non-problem
mircea_popescu: they're the people we wish to kill, and they're the reason we even work with bitcoin in the first place
mircea_popescu: so they may be killed.
pankkake: it doesn't change the bitcoin protocol though
pankkake: it's just a wallet feature
Dimsler: well the problem with the main fiat economies is usury
mircea_popescu: so they claim.
mircea_popescu: they didn't change the term of service, either
mircea_popescu: you just can't take your own money out of your own bank anymore, is all.
Apocalyptic: what would be interesting to know is that if at some point they would go for it, how widely accepted would be a fork that preserves the actual model
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic extremely widely accepted. here's a secret of polychinelle : starting with about 6.0, the versions of bitcoin fromn the so called "dev team" have just about zero support.
mircea_popescu: sure, reddit uses them. reddit has no bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: what's worse, reddit has no brain.
Dimsler: most bitcoiners have no brain
Apocalyptic: in other terms, how many people woud actual not blindly run to bitcoin.org to update because they heard they should
mircea_popescu: people with no money and no brains don't count in this world.
Dimsler: the early bitcoiners are some really aweful people
Apocalyptic: Dimsler, that makes me worried
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic pretty much everyone that knows me won't, for one.
Dimsler: why they are being replaced with real developers
Apocalyptic: mircea, one can hope :)
Dimsler: and institutionalized investors
Dimsler: the bitcoiner of 2012-2013 is hopefully going to disappear with the tier 2 development
mircea_popescu: Dimsler the idea is to replace institutionalised investors with mpex, not to shittify bitcoin by having it look more like something dimon might easily wrap his head around.
pankkake: tier 2 development?
mircea_popescu: ya, wut ?! 2012 is tier 3 already.
pankkake: tiers?
mircea_popescu: well w/e, i presume he means waves.
KRS1: ;;diff
gribble: 2.193847870174279E9
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02897997 = 0.1739 BTC [+]
jurov: um, so we modelled the mpoe extremes and claim problem solved?
mircea_popescu: jurov i was waiting for you to ok it as i had a 4th month
jurov: ah ok
jurov: er..
mircea_popescu: 4th month : profit 3 btc, capital 60 btc.
mircea_popescu: 10 gets .5, 40 gets 2, 10 gets .5
Dimsler: i'm hoping on some of the eastern european development teams push multi sig and colored coins
mircea_popescu: again, net. on paper in fact they get 5 btc, of which 4.5 btc comes out of their capital, so they are left with 5.5 on the books,
mircea_popescu: and get paid 5 btc in cash
Dimsler: they've already grew btc-e on pure anonymininty
mircea_popescu: Dimsler you're way behind on your reading.
mircea_popescu: colored coins died in 2012.
mircea_popescu: ;;google why i nixed colored coins
gribble: OP_CHECKCOLORVERIFY: soft-fork for native color coin support ...: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=253385.0>; Treasury: We won't mint a platinum coin to sidestep the debt ceiling: <http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/12/treasury-we-wont-mint-a-platinum-coin-to-sidestep-the-debt-ceiling/>; Money and Coins - K-4 Activities: EnchantedLearning.com: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: whoa check it out, google went on a relevancy break
ozbot: Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: there, a year ago almost to the day
Dimsler: i've read a bit about this
Dimsler: in essence its not specifically coloured coins
Dimsler: but what about the issuance of an asset
Dimsler: based on a blockchain address
Dimsler: as proof of stake
mircea_popescu: issuance of assets is not something that should ever be public facing.
mircea_popescu: let the prospective issuer get the ok of someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about first.
asciilifeform: just for the record, there is the (so far entirely theoretical) possibility of movement in the other direction
asciilifeform: e.g. crypto-blind block chain, etc.
mircea_popescu: how you mean ?
mircea_popescu: jurov now, these are more or less the edges of the space.
mircea_popescu: is your argument that the average provably converges away from the center ?
asciilifeform: the various schemes for mathematically-founded anonymity
mircea_popescu: but as a game-theoretic construct i mean
jurov: moment, all considered, then 30 btc gets first removed from the principals
asciilifeform: (example of 'zerocoin' etc)
jurov: 10 pays 5 btc, 40 pays 20 btc, 10 pays 5
jurov: and then they receive the interest with the same amounts
mircea_popescu: well 0.5 2 .5 ya
jurov: ok, let's go on
mircea_popescu: that'd be all.
mircea_popescu: these are the edges pretty much
jurov: now, if needed capital is < 50btc, my 50% bond sits unused
jurov: if it's >= 60 then it gets same result as all the other bonds
jurov: the problem is, there seems to be a correlation between loss and exhaustion of bondholders' capital
jurov: we don't have any good sample
mircea_popescu: if you like math, one thing you can do is define this game as a GM construct and play a billion rounds
mircea_popescu: course the results will be dubious on the face, cause of possible bias, but still, it's research.
jurov: one would have to simulate the players, too. they do trade options more when the rate is volatile, but how much more?
mircea_popescu: hence the bias.
mircea_popescu: moreover, how likely are they to be right ?
mircea_popescu: if they are wrong and trade a lot that doesn't hurt the bonds.
jurov: if i buy a call and am wrong, mpoe gets only up to the price i paid
jurov: but if i'm right, i can get anything
mircea_popescu: well yes, this is the story of options.
benkay: GM mircea_popescu?
mircea_popescu: GT i mean. game theory.
mircea_popescu: "game theoretic" in context i guess
benkay: that makes a bit more sense, ty
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 110 @ 0.00309512 = 0.3405 BTC [-]
benkay: mircea_popescu: the column 'capital' in bond history tables includes or does not include last resort capital?
jurov: it does
benkay: thanks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 30 @ 0.00455 = 0.1365 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00100737 = 1.0577 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 7 @ 0.02897997 = 0.2029 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.02897998 = 0.1449 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00309512 = 0.3095 BTC [-]
benkay: well i've gone and confused myself again. mircea_popescu jurov: the statements for say, december 2012 says that the MPBOR for dec 28-jan 25 is 4.99, but thats the rate paid against the december capital. similarly, the jan statement says that the MPBOR for jan26-feb22 will be 9.99 but i'm reading the reports to say that premium was charged for capital borrowed over the course of jan.
benkay: any clarification on what i'm not understanding today would be much appreciated
benkay: also thestringpuller i know you follow mpbor, if you have any ideas about what i'm missing it'd be great to straighten out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0499 = 0.499 BTC [+]
nubbins`: more countertops installed!
nubbins`: juts gotta do some finishing work and add varnish
nubbins`: "The chat room on the site is very active but the conversations there are unusual and non-linear"
nubbins`: so the trollbox doesn't read well?
nubbins`: shocker
nubbins`: i'd be more suspicious if i saw an actual ingelligent, linear conversation take place
nubbins`: oh man. dooglus' response to that reddit thread is great
asciilifeform: 'we suffered pretty heavy losses due to an unusually lucky big player...'
asciilifeform: some joker cracked the prng?
nubbins`: shrug. funny thing about luck ;p
kakobrekla: that translates to slovene too, only 'stable' also means 'fucked up'
asciilifeform: for some odd reason, nobody ever gets this lucky in meatspace casino.
nubbins`: are casinos provably fair with 1% house edge, tho?
nubbins`: well. "provably".
nubbins`: but either way, from what i understand, the setup of jd lends itself to wild swings of luck, both good and bad
benkay: got some trash to talk on someone's provably fair gambling setup, nubbins` ?
nubbins`: not at all, no, just putting quotes on a word
benkay: ah
benkay: you got me all excited!
nubbins`: nah, i'm just being silly
nubbins`: ^ browser plugin that translates shitty 'viral' headlines
nubbins`: "One Weird Trick" becomes "One Piece of Completely Anecdotal Horseshit"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.48000701 = 1.44 BTC [-] {3}
googBus_: hello
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 240 @ 0.00309511 = 0.7428 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 230 @ 0.00309989 = 0.713 BTC [+] {3}
KRS1: Hey there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0031 = 0.62 BTC [+]
jurov: benkay, yes it applies to previous month
jurov: the mpbor isn't currently used for anything outside the bonds calculation
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 5 @ 0.0275 = 0.1375 BTC [-]
jurov: When the bot takes a loss, the subsequent month's premium increases as well. << benkay this is not automatic
jurov: it's because bondholders change the requested rate
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 376 @ 0.0046 = 1.7296 BTC [-]
benkay: oh i should make that clear
benkay: i was shooting for 'implications of the above chart are that bondholders change their opinions about stuff leading to the following'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 178 @ 0.0046 = 0.8188 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 201 @ 0.0045 = 0.9045 BTC [-] {2}
truffles: Apocalyptic i need redemption
Apocalyptic: what kind of redemption truffles ?
truffles: to ko u :D
truffles: game?
benkay: sousveillance plus bitcoin to ruin the tyrant's operatives starting in 2014: in
ozbot: Framed For Selling Crack, Surveillance Video Helps Him Sue Police
truffles: haha
truffles: did they sprinkle some crack on him
Apocalyptic: k truffles
asciilifeform: benkay: picture, how many similar cases, where the video was successfully destroyed.
Apocalyptic: truffles, i'm waiting
asciilifeform: there is, or at some point, will be, a market for a video gizmo that streams public-key-enciphered stream to a box in a non-u.s. jurisdiction.
asciilifeform: or for the truly loaded and profligate: to the blockchain...
asciilifeform: let the bastards eat shit.
benkay: hear hear
asciilifeform: call it 'fair witness' (for aficionados of Heinlein)
asciilifeform: since it would probably be banned anyway,
asciilifeform: might as well add some features
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 750 @ 0.003095 = 2.3213 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: like pumping as many watts of broadcast as possible over all digital TV channels, if the panic button is pressed
asciilifeform: and over channels used by wireless cameras of all types,
asciilifeform: that might be hooked to recorders in the area.
benkay: mhm
asciilifeform: you can safely presume that the polize will 1) confiscate everything physically present and 2) jam common communication channels
asciilifeform: (2) is SOP in major u.s. police raids already, by some accounts.
benkay: so an sdr to find open bands and subsequently pump boatloads of juice over them
asciilifeform: so if your camera writes to a physical device, you're at their mercy
benkay: for a consumer system designed to go in cars a la russian dash cams wifi and cell would be sufficient
benkay: that'd lead to jamming on every car-stop
benkay: hilarious
asciilifeform: also does you no good if the disk on the other end of the connection is found.
asciilifeform: and dealt with
asciilifeform: and, naturally, the kangaroo court might convict you anyway. and, depending on who you are, they might not even bother with a court.
asciilifeform: russian dash cams are a pill against insurance fraud artists, not police
asciilifeform: so different requirements apply.
benkay: "a la"
benkay: Fair Witness also comes with 1 gb pre-paid storage and relay to endpoint of your choice from the secret NSA data center
asciilifeform: they simply write to a flash card
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00100502 = 3.1156 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: since we're philosophizing, ideal version of this concept would be a p2p gadget
asciilifeform: transmits and receives both
asciilifeform: you throw the switch, it broadcasts the buffer contents to any others within 'earshot.' who then store it.
asciilifeform: also great for exhibitionists.
asciilifeform: (and presumably their 'symbiotic' voyeurs)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.0031 = 3.1 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: arguably vulnerable to DDOS by the gestapo, however, unless each unit comes with unique key and maintains a table of 'known friendly' ones.
googBus_: those durn nsagestapo--and so well funded!
asciilifeform: 'for every smart arse, there's a correctly-threaded cock.' (rus. saying)
punkman: asciilifeform: maybe you can pay for upload space in advance at your local Emergency Data Network
googBus_: gd as a tooth in the nose--other ru.saying ;)
googBus_: it's interesting that amazon both has a $600 million USD cloud contract with the agency; and amazon's titular head has bought the washington post
googBus_: keep an eye on all your assets as they say
asciilifeform: there is no cloud; only other people's disks.
jurov: asciilifeform: don't ruin my illusions
jurov: i thought my bits are stored in ionosphere
jurov: :(
googBus_: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-cia-amazon-bezos-and_b_4559317.html
ozbot: The CIA, Amazon, Bezos and the Washington Post: An Exchange with Executive Editor Martin Baron | Nor
asciilifeform: ham radio 'moon bounce' method is a good way to indestructibly store bits. for a few min. anyway.
googBus_: keeping 'the assets' transparent:
googBus_: '"A basic principle of journalism is to acknowledge when the owner of a media outlet has a major financial relationship with the subject of coverage. We strongly urge the Washington Post to be fully candid with its readers about the fact that the newspaper's new owner, Jeff Bezos, is the founder and CEO of Amazon which recently landed a $600 million contract with the CIA.'
googBus_: asciilifeform could be if non-interferred with, yup
asciilifeform: know how in the early days of computing they had 'delay line memory'?
asciilifeform: you could probably set up an optical version of this, using a mirror in space.
googBus_: early computing is fun to look at--the electronic stuff. washingmachines :)
jurov: the camera feed could be transmitted some mile away by optical beam
jurov: at least until police learns and starts shrouding the premises in smoke
Apocalyptic: interesting game truffles
asciilifeform: jurov: hard part is to ensure that somebody is usefully listening.
truffles: blew it half way in!
Apocalyptic: you had some strong kingside defense
googBus_: there's an iee journal mention of that sort of concept for earth. a few of us perhaps simultaneously--however ironic that is--had the notion of using the network itself as a storage system
jurov: http://ronja.twibright.com/ is point to point optical link
ozbot: Home
truffles: yea, got ahead of meself
jurov: cheap diy
googBus_: asciilifeform you've probably seen that movie, Contact
googBus_: (regarding the point of listening)
truffles: im gonna take booze break
googBus_: use to consider it educational to let so called police and intel watch all my buffers :)
googBus_: dhs bze-alln-break ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32036 @ 0.00100808 = 32.2949 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 40 @ 0.003095 = 0.1238 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00484631 = 0.2035 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.00048551 = 0.4855 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 323 @ 0.003095 = 0.9997 BTC [-]
benkay: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00099375 / 0.0010037 / 0.00101414 (407542 shares, 409.05 BTC), 7D: 0.00084311 / 0.00096471 / 0.00101414 (5705993 shares, 5,504.64 BTC), 30D: 0.0007653 / 0.00088974 / 0.00101414 (28043032 shares, 24,951.22 BTC)
benkay: !l m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00100808 BTC [+]
benkay: !l m s.nsa
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00017 BTC [+]
ozbot: Could this electric car soon be the fastest supercar on earth? - CNN.com
googBus_: whatever cnn "says": 'For years electric vehicles have been regarded as the frumpy inner-city siblings of their hardier countryside 4x4 brethren or zippier track-friendly supercar sisters.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8956 @ 0.00100843 = 9.0315 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 297 @ 0.00460007 = 1.3662 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4808 @ 0.00100839 = 4.8483 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 250 @ 0.00477451 = 1.1936 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00100508 = 11.6589 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 200 @ 0.00477899 = 0.9558 BTC [+]
KRS1: ;;getrating cokea
KRS1: ;;gettrust cokea
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user KRS1 to user cokea: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=KRS1&dest=cokea | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=cokea | Rated since: never
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 24 @ 0.00454567 = 0.1091 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.487 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.49 = 2.94 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.49924999 = 3.994 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00100685 = 5.7894 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49 = 2.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49996 = 2.4998 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 137 @ 0.003095 = 0.424 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2002 @ 0.00008899 = 0.1782 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00475897 = 0.2379 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.003095 = 0.1486 BTC [-]
mod6: hi
benkay: hi
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 268 @ 0.00298073 = 0.7988 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 92 @ 0.00298 = 0.2742 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: benkay "I am currently using this fiction whereby the MPBOR established through the workings on one month is declared to be the central bank rate valid for the next month. This is obviously not particularly correct, other than the twin considerations that “natura non facit saltus” on one hand and that it works on the other."
ozbot: MPOE bonds historical data, Dec 2012 - Nov 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha stable
mircea_popescu: good one
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> for some odd reason, nobody ever gets this lucky in meatspace casino. << they do, actually.
mircea_popescu: i distinctly remember this rush where wynn was trying to somehow structure a deal to cover for an insanely lucky player over the weekend
asciilifeform: i always wondered if the de-facto rule in meatspace casinos is 'don't win more than it costs to have your body fed to pigs,' or the like.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00094348 = 0.9435 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: casino politics is an interesting subject
mircea_popescu: this was, as best anyone can determine, not the case past about 1880 or so
mircea_popescu: in general the route is to pay up, in cash, then pile gifts upon you so that you return to the table.
asciilifeform: someone i know was involved in the design of video poker machines, long ago, and was told that his name will probably end up on the 'reject list' (turn out at the door)
mircea_popescu: benkay why "mirceapopescu" as a subscript for th e2nd word ?!
BingoBoingo: Yeah, most people involved in casino work more sophisticated than carrying drinks tend to find their way on reject lists, at least for their own casino
asciilifeform: i don't know for a fact that this is so - he never had the slightest desire to set foot in a casino.
asciilifeform: but it strikes me as plausible - i can see why they'd rather not risk it.
benkay: org mode is being clever
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 160 @ 0.0009489 = 0.1518 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo most people who are good at anything more involved than sucking cock (which is really the criteria for COCKtail waitresses) don't like to play anyway.
mircea_popescu: i don't think i ever saw a pit boss play anything, ever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I've know a couple who do poker tournaments and have done the thing where you sit at the blackjack table and try not to lose more than you would have spent on the drinks.
mircea_popescu: did they last five years in their job ?
BingoBoingo: one of them is going on seven and can't say what he got promoted to. Just he doesn't work the floor anymore. Most of them have burned out in under a year though.
mircea_popescu: kinda meshes then
BingoBoingo: The only people with longevity dealing tables seem to be the people doing it to keep busy after they retire.
mircea_popescu: it's funny, for 2-3 decades they kept trying to get hot female and even mal;e dealers
mircea_popescu: eventually gave up on the notion.
BingoBoingo: Most casinos here don't have much in the way of table games. The slots and video poker seem to cover most of the floor.
mircea_popescu: and by here you mean "this millenium"
BingoBoingo: Well, yes. Similar to BTC and how many people do the dice stuff trying to magic their way into a jackpot.
benkay: also lower labor overhead on the machines, i imagine
mircea_popescu: one of the better "investments"
mircea_popescu: benkay i suspect it's the progressives really.
mircea_popescu: big wins on small odds is what drives crowds.
mircea_popescu: it's impossible to efficiently get 100 blackjack deals to share pennies into a multi-million pot.
mircea_popescu: machines can easily do it.
mircea_popescu: pankkake : s/xunitparser/cuntitsparser.
herbijudlestoids: remember i was in here the other day complaining how postmodern the inernet is?
herbijudlestoids: well i saw today an article about cloudcoin/bitcloud lol these guys dont even realise https://github.com/bytemaster/tornet this exists already
mircea_popescu: that's okay. 9x% of all noobs reinvent the wheel earnestly convinced they are contributing.
mircea_popescu: usually their wheel is square and stuff, too.
herbijudlestoids: hows it going mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: pretty good.
herbijudlestoids: thats good, whats happening today? i just came on to complain as usual
mike_c: asciilifeform: last time i looked at a casino profit chart it read like: 11b profit on slots, 1b on table games.
benkay: herbijudlestoids: it's not abandonware?
mike_c: er, i meant to send that to BingoBoingo :) re: floorspace for slots vs table games
herbijudlestoids: benkay: probably to some extent it is
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Well other factors being equal a slot machine allow for placing bets faster than a dealer does
mike_c: plus there is a world of blue-haired ladies with nothing better to do.
mircea_popescu: i tell you, it's the progressives.
mircea_popescu: no craps game ever had a 19mn jackpot
mike_c: carribean stud tries to do that with a table game
mike_c: jackpot is usually like 100k though
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: (unrelated) i now sympathize with your travails re: that Mac SE
BingoBoingo: I imagine speed element plays in too. That may play into why so few in US casino industry are trying to fight to expand regulated sports and event gambling to new jurisdictions. The few hours it takes a sporting contest to resolve is something I don't know if they can comprehend compared to the seconds a slot takes. May as well be an eternity.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: recently tried, and failed, to get several different OS running acceptably on a '90s laptop
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Oh?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: toshiba l 110ct
asciilifeform: 233MHz, 64M RAM, (modern) 60GB SSD
herbijudlestoids: try netbsd
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: These are the great problems of our times. Getting hardware worth using to work again is a challenge.
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: which OS have you tried so far? i feel like they should work
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the real royal bitch is that it needs a 70M hole at 8.4G offset with no partition in it (suspend-to-disk)
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: freebsd (what i had on it when i was a student), but didn't have the gigantic disk then
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Actual for obscure and old hardware OpenBSD seems to have better hardware and human support than NetBSD. At least that seems the experience on 68k machines
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: youre probably right
asciilifeform: then debian, and killed it in nauseating revulsion, discovering that it swaps to disk with nothing interesting running
asciilifeform: and comes with a bowl full of turds (bluetooth, avahe, etc.) by default
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00100447 = 8.8393 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: I still miss 128 MB of Ram in a compact desktop sold in a time such things were rather unimaginable.
asciilifeform: this box was originally 32, expanded to 64 (max).
BingoBoingo: So much Hypercard
BingoBoingo: The old SE/30 was 4MB when I picked it up at a school auction for $10
the20year2: my first pc was 16mb w/ a 1g HD
the20year2: err, 1.2gb
BingoBoingo: I also have a few Mac Classics and Classic II's which had 1 MB of Ram. Cannabalized 4 of them to give one classic 4 MB of RAM (cheaper to get whole machines than sticks) Had to order RAM to beef up the SE/30 though
asciilifeform: my symbolics 3620 has 4mb.
the20year2: sweet
BingoBoingo: The Classics had 40 MB hard drives, the SE/30 came to me with a 20 MB hard drive.
the20year2: A local school threw out a bunch of older 386 PCs with 20mb drives, they were huge
nubbins`: my first pc was a tandy 1000sx
nubbins`: dual 5.25"s, no hd
nubbins`: had this golf game where you had the option to print your scores at the end. we didn't have a printer; my dad tried to explain it to me, and i couldn't wrap my head around it
nubbins`: "but if it doesn't have any keys, how does it mark the paper?"
BingoBoingo: My first computers were this flock of old macs I got from the school back in 1999 or 2000. Maybe it was 2001?
nubbins`: i remember upgrading the ram to 512kb to play king's quest iv
nubbins`: those were hard fuckin games
BingoBoingo: It was the summer before I started High School. I had gone that long without a computer and decided fuck it, I'm getting several.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform try openbsd :D
BingoBoingo: It took several trips walking to et them all carried home.
mircea_popescu: king's quest was pretty ok, but not rly so hard.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's more or less all that's left. now if someone here knows how to get a bsd to boot from a small separate partition below 1024 cylinders, and mount root fs, etc. from a larger one...
TomServo: king's quest was great until I found monkey island
mircea_popescu: actually talking of hard games, try king's bounty on top diffictuly. the modern versions
mircea_popescu: they're insane.
nubbins`: i mean, i got through them fine as a kid, maybe i had more patience back then
asciilifeform: the bootloader wasn't the issue - the *bsds seem to insist on a massive single mbr partition subdivided into bsd 'labels'
mircea_popescu: wotn probably can't even be done, you won't get past that spider.
nubbins`: they re-released king's quest 3 a couple years ago, i gave it a shot
nubbins`: fared brutally
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean they fail to represent the disk arrangement ?
mircea_popescu: or am i missing something
asciilifeform: freebsd (1st try) didn't like having its '/boot' live on a separate mbr part.
nubbins`: windows/mac only ;(
mircea_popescu: that sounds insane.
mircea_popescu: how does it even know.
asciilifeform: it hardcodes '/boot/kernel/...' into the loader, it seems
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i always liked the part where it's "sir graham the hero". esp for a romanian speaker it was like Sir Breadloaf
nubbins`: haha
mircea_popescu: ok. that is the most retarded fucking thing i ever heard
mircea_popescu: who does this.
nubbins`: sir graham, the earl of sandwich
mircea_popescu: no it was like fiverpool or somesuch
asciilifeform: the machine in question is more than an idle plaything, it has a dos fat16 part. (to drive CO2 laser)
mircea_popescu: what the fuck was it
nubbins`: daventry!
mircea_popescu: mondon lol. it was ah yes!
mircea_popescu: yes that's it
nubbins`: the first time a machine made me feel fear was when the snow monster popped out at me for the first time
nubbins`: first time first time
herbijudlestoids: hehe tim cook aapl ceo says there is no backdoor in aapl products but since they are under a gag order he cant prove it
ozbot: [OpenBSD/i386] 2 MBR Partitions with OpenBSD?
asciilifeform: seems like openbsd won't even try to install /boot to a separate mbr part.
KRS1: which boot loader lilo?
asciilifeform: KRS1: not an issue with the boot loader
asciilifeform: but with an os that presumes that it lives on one mbr part.
mircea_popescu: herp. what gag order.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suppose you can just edit and recompile...
mircea_popescu: not that such a thing should ever be said to anyone in any context, let alone in response to "hi lol, we hardcoded random shit because magic strings are cool"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and what if i were 'civilian', rather than a weirdo with a physical drive hooked through a dongle to a vm for installs/overnight compile of whatever
KRS1: pbr?
asciilifeform: and stuck doing compile on a pentium 1...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.4900002 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: the only reason i even tell this story here is to note how obscenely bloated modern unixlikes have become
KRS1: the pbr locates /boot not mbr
mircea_popescu: random civillian reaction.
KRS1: just trying to help not to try to be disrespectful or anything but if mbr is working right, pbr isn't set right
asciilifeform: what's the object bolted to the wall?
mircea_popescu: on the left ? a wire mask
asciilifeform: KRS1: partitions are trivial to lay out, the issue was that the bsd loader presumes that '/boot' and '/' are on the same partition.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suppose she is 'calling someone who cares'
Neil: https://blockchain.info/block-height/282405 Smallest SHA256 ever? I think that block would pass for 20 trillion difficulty
ozbot: Bitcoin Blocks At Height 282405
benkay: nethack y'all nethack
mircea_popescu: nice find Neil
mircea_popescu: but i recall 20 0's hash as record tho i couldn't name the block
herbijudlestoids: any europeans handy with an opinion on ukraine
herbijudlestoids: basically what i saw was that ukraine picked gazprom over eu gas and the next day riots erupted
herbijudlestoids: seems kind of sus
ozbot: My Story Past Gambling Addiction
mircea_popescu: faces of the 2013 bitcoin generation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminiscent of your observations re: dope addicts. that is, one marvels at their ability to get hold of the $$$$ to carry on
asciilifeform: '$1000 here, $7000 there'
mircea_popescu: it's their unconscionable mothers.
mircea_popescu: "About two weeks later I started my sophomore year at college." is the controlling part.
BingoBoingo: Well, this is the sort of stuff the magical thinking that leads people to dice and slots does.
mircea_popescu: sophomores don't belong dorking about acting as if they were men and thinking about their bankroll.
mircea_popescu: also known as "don't take your guns to town"
mircea_popescu: ;;google cash don't take your guns to town
gribble: Johnny Cash "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raXKeQ5qFwo>; Johnny Cash - Don't Take Your Guns To Town - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMMp_llzBT4>; JOHNNY CASH LYRICS - Don't Take Your Guns To Town - A-Z Lyrics: <http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/donttakeyourgunstotown.html>
ozbot: Dinesh D'Souza Charged With Election Fraud
mircea_popescu: if you live in the us, don't make stuff that mocks obama
mircea_popescu: or else it's jale for you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4223 @ 0.00100686 = 4.252 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49 = 2.45 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: yep, dont piss off oblabla
mircea_popescu: don't say he's a grown-up trayvon. anything but pointing out teh obvious.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.49 = 2.45 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: i remember in 2008
herbijudlestoids: i would listen to oblabla speak
herbijudlestoids: and think to myself
herbijudlestoids: *finally* this is the guy we have all been waiting for
herbijudlestoids: what a stupid fuckwit i was
herbijudlestoids: i think i actually like george bush more
kakobrekla: no, thats the next dude.
mircea_popescu: many people actually believed the "intelligent, educated guy that happens to be black"
herbijudlestoids: well it wasnt that but he said all the right things
BingoBoingo: Well, in the US we get just the worst candidates
herbijudlestoids: remembrer when oblabla said he wanted to close guantanamo LOL
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's so totally unique to the us...
herbijudlestoids: or when he said the PATRIOT act was bad ahahahahahahha
mircea_popescu: aka "read my lips" moments.
herbijudlestoids: the best, best of absolute all was when he told us that they would be the most transparent administration in history
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.487 = 2.435 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: but it is pretty transparent
mircea_popescu: you can see right through it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.4861 = 2.4305 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: through yes, into no
herbijudlestoids: i want the revolving door for big finance, big pharma and big industry in general to end
herbijudlestoids: there is no way you should be able to be the head of some important decision making function at the USDA and then in a week go work for monsanto
herbijudlestoids: or be the general who blows up civilians and then go onto consult for fox news and raytheon
mircea_popescu: right. but this mostly because you don't want either usda or monsanto
mircea_popescu: so in short, the door is not the problem. the existence of the buildings the door is attached to is the problem
herbijudlestoids: by the same token raytheon lobbyists should not be allowed to become the chief of staff at the pentagon
mircea_popescu: because neither raytheon or pentagon should exist.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.486 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: im not ideologically opposed to the idea of national self defence, or industrial agriculture per se
chetty: yeah well close the door is the first step. then you can blow up the buildings one at a time
mircea_popescu: in that case you're stuck with the statu quo.
mircea_popescu: because you only have so many intelligent people involved, and so both regulator and actor hire from the same pool
herbijudlestoids: so you reckon we cant have one without the other? its simply impssobie for humans?
mircea_popescu: and are happy when someone accepts a job.
herbijudlestoids: thats quite cynical but i guess you are probly right im being idealistic
mircea_popescu: you have 500 ceo jobs to be filled and 50 regulator head jobs to be filled
mircea_popescu: if you're lucky you have 5 people who could do it, and they could do either.
mircea_popescu: what now ?
herbijudlestoids: well then i will settle for more information, everything needs to be more transparent so we can at least argue over it
mircea_popescu: yeah, except bitcoin has perfect information and the end result is what, the forum ?
mircea_popescu: information doesn't help the stupid, nor the lazy.
herbijudlestoids: fine, you cynical realist bastard
herbijudlestoids: i want more information and an educated populace
BingoBoingo: Not going to happen populaces resist education
mircea_popescu: "75% of 200 anon voters are in agreement bitbet should give random people random moneyz" and "anon dork knows X scam is legit, anon dork Y knows mpex exists to scam noobs". that's your information and argument >D
herbijudlestoids: i think probably we arent all stupid and lazy
herbijudlestoids: but we are goaded into it over time
mircea_popescu: yeah, but it's easier to stay stupid and be lazy.
mircea_popescu: therefore, any distribution will be stupid-heavy and lazy-heavy
herbijudlestoids: especially if youve got something to lose, like a girlfriend or family
mircea_popescu: people will gladly lose it and then cry.
mircea_popescu: rather than think and so get to keep it.
mircea_popescu: the only way to get an "educated populace" is to constuct a hierarchy, where 90% are enforced into slavery, and then the 10% at the top have a good incentive to be educated
mircea_popescu: british empire style.
mircea_popescu: it's still not a stable solution
chetty: too bad its not reversible = thinking and not being lazy always wins
mircea_popescu: (partly because the daughters are sluts and keep fucking the underclass, partly because the sons are lazy and well... same deal)
herbijudlestoids: today is australia day here in australia
herbijudlestoids: i call it amnesia day
herbijudlestoids: drink up and forget
mircea_popescu: what, the glorious days of penal colony ? :D
herbijudlestoids: yeah some stupid shit like that
herbijudlestoids: i just listen to this song
ozbot: Hilltop Hoods - The Calling - Walk On - YouTube
herbijudlestoids: oz hiphop
herbijudlestoids: its my australian anthem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1350 @ 0.00100693 = 1.3594 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.47 = 6.11 BTC [-] {4}
herbijudlestoids: forget all the fucked up shit we did to get where we are, forget all the fucked up shit we are right now and forget how fucked up its all gonna get
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00100706 = 7.2508 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: nevermind
herbijudlestoids: i think i should go and do something
herbijudlestoids: (instead of trying to make ascii art of australia)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00100707 = 8.7615 BTC [+] {2}
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